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I Don’t Belong in the Gay Community · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:01
  Speaker A: Welcome to gay men going deeper, a podcast by the gay men's brotherhood that showcases raw and real conversations about personal development, mental health, and sexuality from an unapologetically gay perspective. I'm your host, Matt Lancadell. And joining me today is Michael Diorio and Reno Johnston. Welcome, guys. Today we're talking about feeling like we don't belong in the gay community. And we're going to be exploring questions like, what makes you feel like you don't belong in the gay community? What makes you feel like you do belong in the gay community? And what have you done that has helped you feel like you belong? What we want you, the audience to get out of today's episode is to know that you are not alone if you feel like you don't belong. Most of us have some form of maybe injury around belonging, attaching relationships, these sorts of things. So it's very common. Belonging is a complex need. Many of us have attachment injuries that impact how we get this need for belonging met. So you're not alone. And if you are new here, please subscribe to the channel on YouTube. And if you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, please subscribe and leave us review, which helps us get into the ears of people who need us. All right, so as I said off the top, belonging is a need. It is a very important need that we have as human beings. We are biologically hardwired for attachment, for connection, and we all have this need for attachment. How we relate to this need is going to be significantly impacted by our early developmental relationships. That could be with caregivers, it could be in our childhood, with our peers, these sorts of things. So if we were bullied when we were younger, or we had attachment injuries with a caregiver, whether we were betrayed or abandoned or neglected, this is going to significantly impact how we relate to people in general. So we might have a belief that relationships aren't safe. That's going to impact how we move towards relationships. We might carry a strong fear of rejection. So it's like, geez, I am going to reject before I get rejected, right? That's going to rupture our ability to be able to move into connection and have this, this need for belonging met. Love and connection is what we get when we feel like we belong. So this is why it is so important. This is why a lot of us move towards it. We want relationships. You see, in the gay men's brotherhood community, it's like so many posts, almost like 90% of them are about relationships, right? Because we all have this deepest, deep, conscious and subconscious need for love and connection. And when this need goes unmet, we, what a lot of people do is they develop, like, defense mechanisms or protector parts to not have to feel this need. So if, let's say we have a strong fear of rejection, we're not willing to put ourselves out there to get our need for connection met. We might start to tell stories that I'm a lone wolf, I'm okay with. With spending my time alone, or I'm introverted. I don't need people. Right. These are protector parts that we can build around not getting this need for belonging met. So while you're. While you're listening today, I want you to really think about the parts of you that negotiate with this need if it's going unmet for you, and how you can maybe start to disarm these protector parts so you can start to meet this party that really desires love and connection and allow that person, that part of you, to belong to the pack. Right. And both are important. I think, like, the lone wolf is important. It's important to be able to run wild on your own away from the pack. But it's also really important to be able to come to the pack and. And get our needs met for that we can't meet for ourselves. Right. Attachment needs, we can't meet for ourselves. So, um, I'm gonna leave it there. And, uh, but I want to hear from you guys. I'm really curious about your. Your take on this. So, um, maybe we'll start with. Let's start with Michael. I don't know what makes you feel like you don't belong in the gay community.
• 4:22
  Speaker B: Love it. This is a. I agree. It's definitely one of the hot topic that we see a lot in the brotherhood in the Facebook group. When I asked this question, first of all, thank you for the intro. When I was reflecting on this question not too long ago, all of my answers were very judgy. So I think to summarize, what makes me feel like I don't belong in the community is when I judge it. Not. Not to say that that's necessarily wrong or untrue, but when I go into that space, it is very much a judgy space. But here are the ways. So I'm going to answer this way because I want to take ownership of it. Here are the ways I judge the gay community in a way that makes me feel like I don't block. I think that's the way I want to frame it for myself just because it feels like I'm in, like I'm in the driver's seat.
• 5:10
  Speaker A: I like that. Yeah.
• 5:11
  Speaker B: Yeah. So this is the way I judge the gay community, which contributes to the feeling that I don't belong. Okay? So for me, the number one thing I have a lot. I can answer this in a lot of ways, but I'm just going to pick one that is the most for me. And that's the, the superficiality aspect. And that can be a lot of things. Like the way that I see a lot of gay menta. And this is probably indicative of maybe where I live. But the way that I see them interact with the world, with other people, gets me a little bit angry sometimes. The ways I see them focus on appearances over literally everything else, authenticity, connection, their own mental health. Like, this is very common that I see. Like, they will do anything for a, like on Instagram at the expense of their physical health, their mental health connections and deep relationships. And it makes me very angry. And I look around and I'm like, these are definitely not my people. Like, I just feel like just, you know, this is, this is not. I don't want to be part of this. If this is what the gay culture and the community is, take me out of it. Right. And there are a lot of people out there, and I don't think that it's the people. I'm going to make a generalization. I don't think it's the people that are listening to this podcast necessarily, although there might be some of you. But I. Theres a very deep desire to want to look good at the expense of literally everything else I get. We all want to look good, fine. Who doesnt? But theres a balance that comes to others, a way to do it from a place of self love, from a place of. You can self validate in addition to get that external validation. We talk about that a lot. So I think thats the one I see. And also I see so many gay guys, again, spend money, thousands of dollars on an outfit, and yet, like $0 on therapy or a book or coaching or anything, really, literally anything that is actually good for their mind or soul. Very heavy emphasis is on the body, not the inside of the body, the outside of the body. And very little goes into this, like your brain, your mindset, your soul, your spirituality, even the core relationships you have. And then they complain. And that's what makes me angry, not just about the gay community, but when people complain about problems that are extremely solvable, I get very angry. It's like, this is not rocket science. We know how to fix this. Tons of books have been written, tons of research out there on how to feel better, and yet it's there. And people don't take it again because they're too focused on the filter, on whatever Instagram posts are doing. So, you know, I see a lot of people out there that are very afraid. And, I mean, I know that we see it. We see a lot of guys out there who are very afraid, very insecure, lacking connections, carrying all their past drama, past baggage, not healing, not doing the work. And that's the part that. That really makes me feel like I don't belong. It's like, it's just. That's just not me. It's just not the kind of people that I want to be with. And unfortunately, I think where I live, at least what I'm exposed to, there is a lot of that. And I get exposed to it. Like, I hear it in the streets, I hear it at the gym, I hear it. I just hear it. It's in my vicinity. Not people that I necessarily know or am in contact with by choice, but it's out there. And I feel like this is not the scene that I want to be in. So, yeah, I think I'll leave it there. And then, spoiler alert, when I get out of that judgment mode, which was. I know that was a very judgy little spiel. I had a true, as it may be, still very dodgy. When I get out of that mode, that's kind of the answer to my next question, which I can. I can hold off on that for next one.
• 8:51
  Speaker A: So succinct. I love that. And I could second everything you said.
• 8:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, I figured you might.
• 8:57
  Speaker A: How did that impact you, Reno? Just listening to Michael, I'm curious.
• 9:01
  Speaker C: I love that you asked the question, how did it impact me? Because what I noticed is, as I was hearing your judgments, I was experiencing an increasing distance between you and I, which is interesting because I actually, a lot of the things you describe being in judgment of, I don't actually relate to. I'm more like in your sort of arena, if you will, which is why the three of us are here, obviously. But that was interesting to take note of. And what. What came up for me as you were ending was this recognition that for a long time, I wanted to belong. Like, nearly anywhere that would have me, you know, if we go back to my early years, I just wanted to belong, you know, and it almost didn't matter to the point where, you know, I was. I was reaching for and performing for people who didn't even respect me and weren't even kind to me. I can remember a bully in school, you know, I would give him extra Valentine's Day treats and stuff like that, you know, when you bring stuff to school just so he would like me and like, not pick on me, you know, and, and so I saw that behavior kind of continue as the years went on and I noticed like, yeah, I just, I just wanted to fit in. I just really wanted to belong. And then funny enough, at some point, probably around the time I came out, I just stopped giving a shit for the most part, you know, like, it's not that I didn't want to be a part of some of these spaces because they looked really cool and sexy. Like, everyone was like well dressed and stylish and, you know, there were the clicks and I'm not going to say that wasn't alluring in some way, but what started to happen is I just saw like the sort of emptiness of that and that when I boiled it down, I was like, is this actually, what, like, do I actually want to be a part of this? You know, and luckily I got to spend a little bit of time in some of those spaces. As time went on, it was like, you know, I entered the gay community and I started connecting and meeting new people and finding myself at different parties and in different nightclubs and things like that. But what I started to notice is that as I sat around for a while and just paid attention to what was going on, I was like, this doesn't actually resonate with me. And so, no, I don't belong here, but I'm not a victim, you know, I'm choosing to not belong here because I don't, I don't want to, you know, and my circle continued to diversify. So, you know, yes, like, identified as gay, I identify as gay queer as well. And, you know, I found myself in gay spaces and queer spaces and gay relationships and queer relationships, but I was no longer limited to that. You know, it was just one part of the fullness of my life and being and expression and world. And so, you know, cut to today. Yeah, I don't find myself chasing belonging in the gay community. I just move in the direction of the people and places that resonate with me and away from the ones that don't. And luckily I found the gay men's brotherhood and, and you guys, and, you know, it's like, here we are. Yay. You know? Yeah, yeah. What about you, Matt?
• 13:13
  Speaker A: Well, I'm just curious. I have a quick question for you. What's a judgment you have of the community currently that prevents you from belonging?
• 13:21
  Speaker C: Definitely. Yeah. I'm gonna sound like such a bitch.
• 13:28
  Speaker B: But I did it too. It's okay.
• 13:30
  Speaker A: We all have these. That's why it's normalized.
• 13:33
  Speaker C: I'm like, most of these people are not on my level internally. That's how I feel. I'm like, most of you all are not on my level internally.
• 13:42
  Speaker B: I feel you.
• 13:43
  Speaker C: Like, if we sit down and we kick it, like, I don't know if y'all can keep up, you know? That's really how I feel. Now, what I want to say, and I'm glad you asked this question, is that it's been my experience that if we can meet at this level that I'm talking about or in this place that I'm talking about, and really, that place is a lot less judgmental than I'm articulating it as. You know, I think it's. Rumi says out between. What does he say? There is a field, I think something about beyond right and wrong. There is a field. I will meet you there. I forget the exact quote, but it's like a really well known Rumi quote. And my experience has been that I have been able to meet people who I previously judged in that space. And then it's like all that bullshit goes away and we can really connect at the level that I'm talking about. It's just been my experience that there are many people who are not available or ready for that yet. And I've just had to accept that and kind of move solo sometimes. And then, like I said, when I'm lucky, I'll encounter these, like, seemingly rare specimen, and then we can go there, you know? Yeah.
• 15:13
  Speaker A: Thanks for both of you guys, for your candor. I appreciate it.
• 15:16
  Speaker C: Yeah, thanks for that question. That was good.
• 15:18
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 15:19
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 15:20
  Speaker A: So, for me, what makes me feel like I don't belong in the gay community? I kind of did something similar that you did, Michael. But instead of the word judgment, I use stories. So the stories I tell myself about myself, the stories I tell myself about the gay community, the stories I tell myself about myself is they're all built around fear of rejection. So, you know, what would I possibly be rejected for? Being weird. Always been told I'm weird or I'm odd. I always get this feeling that people are kind of not sure how to relate with me when I go out to events or things like that. Like, people will kind of be like, oh. Like, you know, it's almost like they're, they feel intimidated or something and they don't want to. So then I feel awkward. And then probably my awkwardness or my anxiety, a bit of social anxiety can kind of come off as like, you know, the other story probably about myself is that, that I tell is that like people.
• 16:26
  Speaker B: Or.
• 16:26
  Speaker A: I guess this would be both the other. So the stories I tell myself about the gay community, similar to what you, you were saying, michael. Like I feel the superficiality and the hyper focus on sex. And it almost feels like in some circles in the gay world, like that's all they can talk about and think about. It's just like perseverating on sex and all the jokes are about sex and everything. So it's just this really hyper fixation on this one piece. And yeah, I have a story that, similar to what you said, reno, that they can't keep up with me. And I think I look at these two things and I'm like, well, how do I protect myself from this? I don't want to just walk around with these open wounds of I don't belong and I'm hurting. So I build these protector parts around myself. And one of them is I'm more evolved than these people, right? So it's like I'll turn my nose up and they're over there and I'm over here. So I other myself. It's very egoic, right? But it's a protector part. It's how I keep myself safe from feeling rejected by the larger group. And when I think about the gay community, I even think like that. Like, I think like I'm over here and usually solo and everyone else is over there and like they're having fun and they're living this like party life and whatever. And I'm over here, mister serious, trying to pull people from that group over into like the more conscious pool, you know? And I still think like that even right now. I'm like, yeah, that feels very true for me. And I remember when I was interviewing Doctor court on the episode we did about sex and porn addiction. It was very early, it was like three years ago. And at the end of the episode, he said, I've given up on the gay community. He said, I've just given up trying to help them because they're such a lost group of people. And something in me, my heart totally sank when he said that. And I was like, I've heard that from multiple people who are in that generation and they feel like it's just hopeless. Like we've tried, we've provided resources, consciousness therapy, and nothing seems to work. They want to continue to do party and play, have lots of sex, not go to therapy. And I thought to myself, like, am I young and naive in this space? And am I on this path trying to pull people over from that pool, into this pool where they can be more conscious and more loving and more, you know, accepting of each other and not just be so hyper fixated on body and these more superficial pieces. And then I always get humbled, which is cool. Like, you know, I get to meet people like you or I go on a date with somebody and I'm, like, thinking that they're just going to be, like, not able to keep up with me and they are able to keep up with me, but in their own way, they're in their own lane, right? So I've had to lower my expectations and detach my expectation to outcome and look at, like, okay, how can this person hold their own in their own lane? It might not be the exact way that they're going to show up for me or that I. The way I show up, but, you know, we all have our things that we're bringing to the table, our strengths. And so it's like, yeah, it's interesting. So I guess I look at a protector part, but I also look at a humbling part. And it would be humility, right? Humility has brought me into connection, which I think will be. We're kind of bleeding now into the second question, but before we hop into there, I want to. We're kind of getting the juices flowing here, and I want to engage the audience. I want you to maybe pause the video and reflect on the question, like, what makes you feel like you don't belong in the community? Or what judgments do you hold about the gay community? What stories are you telling about the gay community? And just reflect and then come back and join us. And you can also join us and get part of the conversation in our sharing circles and our connection circles. So these happen, our sharing circles happen on the last Thursday of every month. Large group, one person sharing at a time, other people holding space and listening. If that sounds too intimidating for you, you can come and join one of our more intimate gatherings, which is our connection circles. And these happen on the second Thursday of every month. They're smaller, more intimate breakout rooms where you can discuss the topics on the podcast that we're talking about. So this month will be gay problems. We're going to be unpacking all the episodes that we talked about in that connection circle. So come join us. If you want more information on that, go to gay Men'sbrotherhood dot and check out our event section to RSVP. If you don't have Facebook, you can get on our email list, and we'll email you the zoom links for the sharing circles as well. All right, let's hop into the second question. So, Michael, what makes you feel like you do belong in the gay community?
• 21:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, the cat's out of the bag. The opposite of judging is when I look for what we have in common, and it's there. Right. Either one. Like I say that both are true. Right? We're alike in many ways. And we're not alike in many ways. It's where you choose to focus. It's going to give you that feeling. So when I choose to focus instead on the ways that we are in common or my people, like, if the gay community is this big soup of people, where are mine? Where are the ones that do that? I do feel like I belong with, you know, giving yourself permission or giving myself permission that I don't have to live up to anything that I don't like out there. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't have to like it, and then I don't have to participate in it. I can just let them do them and not judge it. Just let them be, let them have their way and try not to judge it too much. And that gives me a lot of relief. And then I just focus on the people that I do feel like that sense of belonging with that. People that do nurture me, mind, body and soul, people that can go deeper, people that can play in the shallow end with me and in the deep end with me. Right. I like that mixture of both personally. Um, so, yeah, when I focus on what we have in common, uh, and just kind of change the channel on everything else, which I tell people about that with. With us as well. Like, if you don't like what we're talking about here, change the channel. There's lots of other stuff out there. Um, and then having conversations with people, I think, always helps me. Matt, you had just said people can surprise you, and I think we've talked about that as well. Here is, you know, a lot of. For all my judgments, I've been wrong a lot of the time. I've been humbled many, many times. So having those conversations and really getting to know people and giving them a chance to show themselves to me, because the thing with judgment and stories is that they are just that they're not facts, necessarily. So giving myself a chance to be wrong and giving them a chance to show me who they really are has really helped me find that commonality, which does help me feel like I belong. And people who share that vision of what they want from their life, whether it's gay or nothing, whether they're gay or not, like, just finding people who are similar to me, who have commonality with me has helped me. Or I tell, I say this to my coaching all the time, open your heart, not just your hole, because we're really good at opening our holes. Okay, maybe I'm projecting a little bit here.
• 23:44
  Speaker C: I was like, who are you talking about?
• 23:47
  Speaker B: Right, but I mean, I. And then, like, I learned how to do that first, before I learned how to open my heart. And I think that's very true for a lot of people out there. Like, we lead with the sex, and sex is great. There's nothing wrong with sex. All the good things about sex, but what else is there, right? So I think having vulnerability, emotional vulnerability for me, was a harder thing to do than sex. It still is. It's still. Sex is for me, not. Not a problem. It doesn't. Yeah, but emotional vulnerability, opening my heart, I still feel scared. I think that's true for a lot of people. There's that fear of rejection that comes up, that abandonment, that judgment. Fear of judgment which we just prove that we do judge each other. So my short answer is, yeah, focusing on that which connects us more than which divides us. I'm going to take a little page out of Kamala Harris's book right there because she's saying that a lot lately.
• 24:41
  Speaker A: You stimulated something in me, and maybe I want to share impact. You said sex is easy, but emotional vulnerability is more challenging. I agree with that in my twenties. But then what's happened is once I've become more heart open and I become more emotionally vulnerable, sex has changed for me. Sex has become more sacred. So I find it is actually not as easy for me to just open up and be sexual with somebody. Right. Do you share that same experience or for you, like, are they just kind of still quite separate?
• 25:17
  Speaker B: Well, now I can do both easily. I can still have my fun. But it does not take a lot for me to be vulnerable like it used to. Like, I used to be really terrified of it. But I think the work we do, the work that I've done on myself over the last ten years, same, you know, same thing, like in my thirties, really helped me create safety for myself with respect to vulnerability. And learn to love myself and have my. That self compassion. So even if. Even if that, I do take that emotional risk and the rejection does happen, which happens all the time, by the way. Um, it's not gonna. I'm gonna be in my own soft place to land. It's. It's not gonna kill me. And, you know, uh, it's. It's worth it, because most of the time when I do choose the vulnerable moment, you know, telling someone how I feel, you know, I say, I love you first. If I'm dating someone or really interested in someone, um, it usually goes well. Even if it's not the result I wanted. It's not. It's not met with, like, get away from me, you crazy person. Right?
• 26:12
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Being let down with tact, I think we've talked about that on this episode or on this podcast before, is like, how there's actually, like, really kind ways of rejecting.
• 26:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, there's so many great posts out there that give you, like, scripting how to do it, because, yeah, I think we either ghost or we just say it in a rude way, but there's so many beautiful ways to say no. Thank you.
• 26:37
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks for sharing your experience. Reno, what about you? What makes you feel like you do belong in the community?
• 26:47
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 26:49
  Speaker A: Hmm.
• 26:55
  Speaker C: You know, it's interesting. One of the things that I wanted to mention is, like, this. As I was listening to you share, Michael, I was thinking of this distinction between, like, moving from judgment versus moving from resonance. And I noticed how those two things felt different in my body. Like, you know, steering clear of something because I'm judging it versus steering clear. Steering clear or engaging with something because I'm judging versus. Because there's resonance or there isn't. You know? And I. To know me is to know that I tend to move through the world, really paying attention to what I vibe with, what I resonate with, and what I don't. And, yeah, sometimes there's sort of that. That judgment, like, intermixed in the. The way that I navigate. But I definitely try to be aware of when that's happening. And to, as was mentioned previously, really allow my heart and my body to open in that situation and to create space for curiosity, to kind of engulf the situation. It's like, okay, what's really going on here? And so rather than pull back, sometimes lean in. And what starts to happen as I lean in and just hold an awareness, the judgment and the sort of intellectualization of the experience I'm having, just hold it in awareness and embody. This openness and receptivity and curiosity. Well, I would say curiosity first and then sort of a, an openness and then a receptivity, maybe in that order. That's how I experience it in my body. What ends up happening is that it's so funny. I'm noticing myself describe this whole process, and I'm just smiling because it's such a reno way to describe this process. But it's like my body and my being start to open, and as a result, there's kind of this, like, union with whatever's happening in front of me. And so that is, for me, the process of coming into belonging with whatever's in front of me. In this case, the gay community or a group of gays that I'm standing across from who I was, maybe formally judging as being, like, vapid or, you know, like, not on my level, so to speak. It's like, okay, cool, let that be there. You're feeling maybe defensive. Maybe you're fearing rejection. Maybe there's a story there. Something happened in the past, you're bringing it into the present. Okay. Notice that it's perfectly okay for you to want to protect yourself, to be on guard. That's normal. And also, let's just hold that a little bit more lightly and, and create a little more space, you know? So I'd say that's been really helpful. And then, you know, as was mentioned here, I think, looking for the things that we have in common and really prioritizing and focusing on those things. And I keep coming back to this situation recently where there was this, this woman who moved into our house. And I remember before she moved in, I had my guard up in a way, and I wasn't sure. I just wasn't sure as it goes with new people. And I know, actually, I remember entering this group of gay men at one point when I was, like, 19, and there was one of them in particular who was really threatened by my presence. He was like the sort of queen bee of the group and was real bitchy and real quick. And I loved it. I loved it. And I remember I said to him at one point, I was like, I know that you don't really like me or you're having trouble with this situation. I said, but I just need you to know that I'm not going anywhere. I said, we have friends in common now, and I'm here, so we're going to have to figure this out. And I think he got it at that point. I think he was like, oh, okay. Like a worthy opponent. You know? And I was like, yes. And then we became really close, and we started finding things in common and having a good time, and he stopped judging me, and I stopped judging him, and then I just started to appreciate him for his realness. He was just. He was candid and kind of bitchy, and I was okay with that. I was like, this is you, you know, you're. Yeah. He very much reminded me of Bianca del. Bianca del Rio from ruPaul's drag race, and I just love that about him, you know? And to this day, I still hold him fondly in my heart. So, yeah, I think there's something there about just making space for commonality and just naming it sometimes, too, that has actually. I really want to say that that has. There have been many situations where I thought I wasn't going to be friends with someone, and I've named it. I've said to them, you know, I got to be honest, like, I wasn't really sure about you at first. I didn't think I was going to like you. I didn't think we were going to get along, and that just, like, opened things up. So, yeah, I think that's a key piece as well.
• 32:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. That's why I like authentic relating to. You could have played out that dynamic with that guy in this implicit dance, and it just becomes a tug of war. But then as soon as you make the implicit explicit, which is what authentic relating does, it's like, oh, okay, we can soften and we can actually move into the actuality of what's occurring here, which is maybe threat or misunderstanding or something. And then you can develop rapport based out of those because it's probably a shared resonance or a shared wound or a shared fear or something. Right. Which is why it's butting up against each other. Yeah, yeah.
• 33:24
  Speaker C: I was like, I see you. Like, you're a bitch and so am I. Let's just get it out of the way. Let's name it, so we can move on.
• 33:32
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny. It's like alpha men. Like, you know, you look at Alpha men and what do they really crave? Like, they crave power, right? So it's like when you have two alpha men coming into a situation and they both are competing for power. Not saying this in your situation, speaking to alphas, that's just how it. How it tends to operate. Okay. Yeah. What makes me feel like I belong in the gay community? I kind of framed it in the same way as I did in the previous question. The stories I tell myself about myself and the stories I tell myself about the gay community, this is going to, the stories we tell are the reality we create for ourselves. So I'm learning to tell new stories. And if I can't tell new stories yet, I'm learning at least to be mindful of the stories I'm currently telling myself. So I don't let them play out over and over again and perpetuate unconscious disconnection. I think one of the biggest things is, like, how am I like these people? Because there's a part of me, and I think this is where we have transference and counter transference within connection with each other is. It's like, oh, I see a guy. When I was having issues with my own femininity, I would see someone that was really feminine. It would make me want to reject that, right? So it's like, how am I like these people? How have we had a shared similar experience? And that's the beauty of the gay men's brotherhood, is we all are coming in and talking about our shared experience. A lot of us struggle with relationships. We struggle with shame. We struggle with internalized homophobia. These things, like, those are common threads that we can all see within each other. And when it's conscious, it's actually a cord of connection, but when it's unconscious, it's like a disconnected cord. We can't actually meet each other. And I think that's, like a big, big piece for me. So I've been learning to, like, look at how, like, look for similarities versus differences. My brain, because I've experienced a lot of trauma, a traumatized brain is really good and programmed at looking for differences because it's all about safety and survival. So how is this person different from me? How may I possibly be rejected by them? So I've got to keep myself safe. So my protector part in that instance would be to reject before I get rejected. So if I start looking for similarities, I start looking for common ways that I can bond with them or connect a cord to them. And so that's a big one. And then another piece is like, we're all suffering and we're all doing our best to get through that. Like, life is fucking hard. Like, I know how hard life can be. I know the suffering that can be caused, and I know the amount of deep, deep work I had to do to get to the point of where I'm at. And, like, I can look at people and instead of saying, I'm more evolved than you, what if I could look at them with compassion and say, fuck, like, I feel for you because I've been there some days I can even still be. Be there, right? And, like, just offer love and compassion. And I think when I'm rooted in love and compassion, I'm feeling like I belong, right? Because I feel like I'm. When I'm in that place, like, I'm at my best. Like, I'm a very, very deeply compassionate person and. And I have a lot of love to give. And I think when I. When I'm coming from that place and that the starting point for me is looking for similarity. How am I like these people? What sort of shared experience do we have that I can draw on and create connection with them? I think that's. That's a big piece of. And then because I carry stuff around feeling different and feeling, like, weird and, like, I don't belong in the pack, I think when I can be myself, when people involve me and they, like, maybe can feel that I'm feeling a little bit uncomfortable and they're like, come over, like, let's. Or they, like, you know, just like, when people do it for us, they help us. Like, I do this all the time with people. When I go out to things and I see someone that's uncomfortable, like, I'll go up to them and I'll create inclusion for them. And I think when someone does that for me, it's such a gift. And then that allows me to feel like I can be myself because I refuse to fit in. I refuse to be in that energy anymore. And that might be one of the reasons why I don't go to those things. But when I feel like I can just belong. And again, maybe I should have said this off the top, but Brene Brown describes belonging, and fitting in is very different. Fitting in means we have to change something about ourselves. Belonging is that we get to just be who we are and we fit in, or we belong because we are. We are just being ourselves, and we are a unique piece to the puzzle. Puzzles are kind of like belonging, and you're not going to fit them in. You can't fit a jigsaw puzzle into a piece that doesn't fit. So I like that. And I like the analogy of just getting to be myself. So that's a big piece of belonging for me, is getting to just be who I am. Yeah.
• 38:26
  Speaker B: Can I share something, Matt?
• 38:28
  Speaker A: Yes, please.
• 38:30
  Speaker B: One of the ways that I like to do that, to find that commonality with somebody. So I know how I was judging before. Let's say I'm in a space and I'm judging someone as being superficial or whatever. I just said a really great way to, and my brain will argue with me on this, but it's really fun to do anyway, is to just look at it with complete curiosity instead of judgment and ask myself, what would compel someone to be like this? Why? What happened? Like, what could have possibly happened in someone's childhood, someone's past relationships, that this is the way they are going about through life, that this is what they're prioritizing over something else, over their mental health, what compels people? I love asking that question, but that's also because I love getting in people's brains, and I just like getting really curious about what makes people tick. But when I look at it from that way, it's never like, the answer is never, oh, just because they're a dick. The answer is usually because maybe they're hurt, maybe they've gone through some kind of trauma. You know, as queer people, we all have to deal with that minority stress and the wounds that come from growing up in the closet.
• 39:33
  Speaker A: Totally.
• 39:34
  Speaker B: That has a lot of impact that I think most people don't realize, the impact that that still has. Even though you're out and open and you're not really in the closet anymore, those wounds still do pack quite a punch. And I think when I look at it from that way, there's more compassion, there's more empathy. And I get it. I'm like, okay, that's perhaps that's why. And then the judgment softens into just curiosity and compassion.
• 39:57
  Speaker C: I love what you said about the judgment softening, Michael, because this is something I noticed as well, is like, there's this real longing for my edges to soften and, like, to be in space where that can happen, in relationship where that can happen. And there's also this judgment around, um, others edges. I see this in the gay community quite frequently as well. Like, I was on the Skytrain recently, and there was this, um, gentleman there. And I'm going to assume that for all intents and purposes, he was gay. Right. And maybe that's, like, bothersome to make that assumption, but, like, I'm going to. And something I noticed about him was, um, it just, it felt like there was, it felt like there was this kind of defensiveness from him. Like, you may know what I'm talking about. If you've ever gone out to the nightclub or you're like, you know, you're out, like, and there's a group of gays and they kind of got that, like, stance with the attitude, you know, and they're just like, whatever, you know, that sort of thing. And I could feel it coming off of him. I was just like, fuck, I really wish that, like, that wasn't there. And we could just, like, have a moment where we saw each other and smiled and, like, you know, because I, there's like, we're both gay. Doesn't mean we have to smile at each other. But there's this thing black guys do, black men in particular. We call it the nod of solidarity. And I learned this when I was a kid where, like, I would see my dad pass another brother and they would, like, nod at each other, right? And I was like, dad, did you know that guy? And he's like, no, we're just, we're brothers. We acknowledge each other. And I was like, that's so dope. And I've just had this longing for that in the gay community where I'm like, WTF? Like, let's. Can we just, like, soften and let that in? You know, let each other in? I know it's easier said than done. And as was discussed here, it's like, what would have a person, you know, hold hard edges? Right. I get it because I do it, too. Sometimes I walk through the world like, you can't touch me, and there's a chip on my shoulder. I totally get it. I'm just curious, like, you know, what would it look like for all of us to. To explore, allowing that to soften and maybe, like, acknowledging one another with a smile and some openness when we see each other, you know? Yeah.
• 42:30
  Speaker A: Yeah. Sass is the protector part.
• 42:34
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 42:34
  Speaker A: And it's the, it's the energy of I'll reject you before you reject me. So, like, I'll be mean and I'll be sad. I'll be catty and sassy. Because then if you come at me, it's like I'm already. But it's just, it's all it's doing is creating disconnection before there is even opportunity for any connection to occur. So it's important, I think, for us all to be aware of that. I love that that's your wish, and.
• 42:52
  Speaker C: I know it well. I'm sassy, right? Like, I could write the book, right? So I'm calling myself out, too. Yeah. Yeah.
• 43:02
  Speaker A: Let's take a moment, audience, you guys, and just take a moment and check in with how you're feeling. So we talked about question one. We talked about, like, disconnection, how we don't belong. But then we just spent the last 20 minutes talking about feeling like belonging and connection. How does that change how you feel? Just check in with yourself and if you are looking to accelerate your personal development journey, you can check out our coaching collection. So we have you can learn to heal and empower yourself at your own pace by getting instant access to 45 plus premium personal development coaching videos created by us as well as our healing your shame and building better relationships courses. You can head to gaming going deeper.com for more information there. And there's going to be a lot of stuff in the community pathway around belonging. And then our building better relationships course is really going to help with maybe breaking down some of these protector parts so you can start to move towards more internal sense of safety and start creating belonging in your life. So. All right, question three. Michael, what have you done that has helped you feel like you belong?
• 44:14
  Speaker B: Good question. I like that we're ending off on this way because this the way that the question is asked it what have you done? And I think that's where I want to kind of draw focus. As you guys probably know, I really like to focus on the empowerment aspect of anything. I just kind of go through life with that. What can I do? So belonging is a tricky one because is it something that you decide or is it something that other people have to do for you? Right. And I think the answer is both. You can't have one, though, without the other. So before, when I felt like I didn't belong, or anytime I feel like I don't belong. And for a lot of people that I. A lot of clients that I have that struggle with this sense of I don't belong in the gay community, they're also the people who tend to abdicate responsibility for their own belonging. So what does that mean? What are the things you can do? Right. We don't have control over whether people like us or not. Right. We don't have control over whether people want to be with us or not. But we do have some things that we do have control over. We can go out into the world and engage. That will help versus staying at home, not engaging, sitting behind your wall, judging everybody else, but not going out into the world to do anything about it. We can create our own opportunities for connection with spaces that maybe we want to create. Right? So like we did with the brotherhood, there was a gap out there. Let's create it. Okay. There's actively participating in things that are out there. So if you're listening to this, we talked about our connection circles, our sharing circles, there are spaces out there, and this. I will die on this hill. There is no shortage of spaces for gay queer people to connect virtual, in person. You just got to go find them. Okay? And I know for some people, that's harder than others. I get it. If you're in a rural area or if you're in a country where maybe there's not so many, I get that it's difficult, but it is still possible. Another thing you can do, or that I can do that help me feel more belonging is learn how to be vulnerable, learn how to let down that guard, learn how to take down that sass every once in a while and have a deeper conversation. Let somebody in, somebody that you trust, and really get to know people for beyond, you know, the physical. So these are all things that have helped me immensely. Now, that's what you can do or that's what I can do. But, like, we all know that there's a lot of research out there on what fosters a sense of belonging. Brenna Brown is one of the first people that comes to mind when we talk about this. She will screen this from the rooftops and has been for years. Vulnerability, that helps. Not helps. That is at the core of that sense of belonging. Right. So your job, our job is to do this consistently and to do it well. These are skills that you have and their skills that we teach. And I know that it's scary because I went through it, too, but that is what has helped me. And the belonging is there. I don't think it's fair to say that, you know, the gay community is fundamentally broken. Sure, there are things that are not great. Absolutely. We all know that. But, like, okay, let's start focusing on what is going well. Where do we have that camaraderie? Where do we have solidarity? I love that word that you used, Reno. And it's there. It is there. Maybe it's not on. You know, maybe it's not on Instagram all the time, but it's there. So that's what. That's what I can do. That's what I have done personally. But then we have to remember the hard part of the belonging is that it is an inherently relational experience. So I don't get to choose for sure where I belong and where I don't. It's a feeling, and it does come from the other. And this is the hard part. Right. We can't force it, but we can try to create inclusion within ourselves. And I think, you know, when we do that, it's easier to do that with others. So, Matt, you had used the example of being in a bar. I mean, I wouldn't have done that in my twenties, but I absolutely do that now for the same reason that I've learned to do it for myself. And I want to be the change that I want to see in the community. Right. Yeah. So we can do things for ourselves to create that belonging. And also, we do have to rely on the other as well. But it's that balance of the self initiative and being in spaces where you do feel seen, heard, and accepted. And then you, on the other hand, being the one who's also at the table, also create that sense of other people, you know, talking to them, making sure they feel seen, heard, and accepted for who they are as well. Which all is to say, you know, quitting that judgment or watching that judgment show up and then making sure you're not leading with it. So that would be my short answer.
• 48:53
  Speaker A: I love it. I could just say, second that and just drop the mic.
• 48:57
  Speaker C: Yeah, same. I was like, what have you left me to say? You've said it all. I think one thing I do want to say is mine has been a journey of belonging to myself so that I can belong everywhere and nowhere and be at peace with both. And so I think what I would leave is that growing to belong to myself and reconciling those fragmented, rejected, disconnected parts of my own being, my own inner world, have allowed me to deepen into self belonging, which has allowed me to move through the world, belonging everywhere and nowhere, and also, most importantly, belonging to myself. And then in addition to that, being at peace with the fact that, well, like, suddenly I'm valuing myself, right, because I'm belonging to myself. And so I'm also discerning about where I actually want to belong and to whom and where I don't, as opposed to, you know, moving through the world with this pick me energy, which no judgment, because I used to. And I love that little guy. His heart was so pure and just wanting to connect with everybody and that I still have that capacity. I've just developed a degree of discernment. And again, I can't say this enough, like, I belong to myself, and that has made all the difference. So. Yeah, yeah.
• 50:55
  Speaker A: Beauty. Yeah. Just from what you just said, I feel like this young part in me, I was very, very vibrant as a kid, and, like, performing and dancing and, like, all the things, you know what I mean? And I had so many friends, and that was the life of the party, kind of energy. And that's, like, my Gemini side. Very, very social. And then I think trauma, like, really just put all this stuff around my heart. Like, I shelled up. And I think my trauma healing journey, what I'm going through the last, you know, three, four years, has really been about, like, melting that away and, like, rediscovering and refining that part in me that's, like, joyful and happy and celebrates. Like, I don't even really can remember the time. I, like, I celebrate celebration, you know, I just. I want more celebration in my life. Celebration of life, of joy, of connection and these sorts of concepts. But, um, yeah, so I would say, yeah. Like, one of the bigger ones for me would be therapy. It's been huge. Emdr is really good for helping, like, get to those lower, like, subconscious roots around, like, beliefs that we have about ourselves. Not worthy of love and belonging. That's the little mantra of shame, right? Shame makes us feel like we're not worthy of love and belonging. Most of us. If you're listening to this, you probably have struggled with toxic shame at some point in your life. For me, it was about getting really clear about my core wounds and the stories that I had attached to them. I'm not worthy of love. I am not enough. I'll be rejected. People aren't trustworthy. And then how I apply those core wounds into the stories of my life and how I relate to people, right. The assumptions I place on people based off of my own wounding, right? So I've had to change out my filters. Just like, we have to change out the filters in our car because they get dirty. We got to change out our filters in ourselves and, like, constantly be working with them. And that's part of me. Like, that is, like, challenging my ego, challenging my stories. It's been huge. Like, if you can't challenge your own ego, you're going to be stuck in unconsciousness. So you have to be able to challenge that narrator in your mind that's constantly on your side, right? It's like, no, you can't always be on my side. Like, that's why, like, my best friend is a psychologist, and she's so objective, and she's not the kind of friend that'll always take my side. Like, she challenges me, and I'm like, damn it. In the moment, it stings. But I'm like, this is why she's my best friend, because she holds me accountable and she doesn't cater to my ego. She wants to see my soul develop, right? And she's like, a soul friend. So I really appreciate that. Yeah. And then creating new experiences and telling new stories. So that takes courage. I got to put myself out there. Right. Which is hard. You got to push through some of the discomfort and then create new stories, which can then be your reference point for moving forward and then not fitting in. Like, just not trying to fit in, stopping the fit in shit. Like, I used to drink and party and go to these things and I'm like, this isn't me. So I stopped doing that. And then I started finding people like you guys and. And I started creating the community that wasn't there for me, you know, like, I'm hiking on the weekends now, and I'm trying to create sober community in. In Calgary with gay men. And it's building. I'm starting to find this, which is fantastic. So if it's not there, build it right. Don't wallow in your. In your loneliness or aloneness. Like, get out and create what it is that you long for.
• 54:31
  Speaker B: I have one more. Can I add one? Yeah, get off Grindr.
• 54:36
  Speaker A: Oh, so toxic.
• 54:38
  Speaker B: If Grindr is your only way that you are trying to connect, and I'm using that word very loosely for Grindr with gay men, like, you're going to have a very skewed perception of you're going to definitely feel like you don't belong.
• 54:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, there's some people that are behaving like flowers on there, but a lot of people are behaving like weeds. I'm not going to call them weeds, but their behavior is weed like. So you got to sort through a lot of weeds to get to the flowers, you know? But, yeah, it's not the most community oriented app. We'll say that.
• 55:09
  Speaker B: Agreed.
• 55:12
  Speaker A: All right, well, thank you to both of you guys for sharing. Like I said so candidly and vulnerably, I love the raw and real stories that we share. It's awesome. And thank you to our listener viewer for tuning into yet another episode of our podcast. And just remember that this podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported. If you enjoy what we're creating, you can support us by making a donation to the show using the link in the show notes. And you can also subscribe to the Early Access option on Apple Podcasts where you can listen ad free, gain early access to episodes, and all your support helps us to continue making content for you and supporting our community. So we do thank you in advance for that, and hopefully we'll see you at one of our next events. Get into the brotherhood if you're not there yet. Go to gaymansbrotherhood.com and get connected to us. We want to see you at our one of our events. All right, much love, everybody.