Latest / The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast / Productivity Without Burnout: Balancing Career, Family, and Entrepreneurship | Shruti Rustagi

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Productivity Without Burnout: Balancing Career, Family, and Entrepreneurship | Shruti Rustagi · The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast

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  20% is what drives 80% of value
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  That's what I focus on.
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  The rest 80% can be good enough.
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  It can be taken care of by other people,
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  delegated,
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  Mm-hmm.
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  deleted, delayed, any of those.
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  Whenever we think of emotional intelligence,
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  we think of it like a woo-woo concept.
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  yeah, we'll take care of the emotions later.
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  But guess what? Emotions is the first thing that's gonna hit you.
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  Productivity, first of all, the way we define it,
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  is not just getting things done,
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  it's doing things that add value to our lives.
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  And when we think of productivity like that.
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  Time management is not the solution.
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  Hey folks, welcome to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
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  My name is Rick Meekins. I'm gonna be your host today and in our studio
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  we have Shruti Rustagi. How are you today,
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  ma'am?
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  Very well, Rick. Thank you for having me.
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  This is gonna be great. Now do me a favor if you haven't done it already,
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  if you would like, subscribe, and hit the bell so that you can
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  get updates every time we drop a new episode.
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  And without further ado, as usual,
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  let's get to it. So Shruti, our audience may not have had the privilege
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  of knowing who you are. So can you give them a little bit of your background,
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  who you are, what you do, and why you do what you do?
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  Absolutely, Rick. More than happy to.
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  So, Rick, I don many hats. The first one is for the last two decades,
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  I've been a corporate leader across multiple continents and countries.
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  So I've worked across India, Southeast Asia,
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  Middle East, North Africa, and North America.
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  Consulting strategy, mergers and acquisitions,
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  business finance, you name it,
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  I've done it all.
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  I also am a leadership development partner,
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  and my focus is middle managers.
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  I support middle managers in moving from just being managers
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  to actually high-impact leaders.
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  And in service of that, I do coaching,
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  I run leadership development programs,
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  I run a podcast, Middle Manager Mastery,
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  just focus on middle managers.
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  And very recently, which is a huge feather in my cap,
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  I'm personally really proud of it.
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  I've just recently become a published author.
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  My book, Fearless Productivity,
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  Mindset Pivots to Maximize Life,
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  is actually focused on the leadership layer,
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  the middle managers, the entrepreneurs who can use mindset methods
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  to actually drive insanely high productivity,
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  much more than what time management could ever do.
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  So that's
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  Amazing.
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  in a nutshell by me.
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  Amazing. And and what do you do for fun in your free time?
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  I love to travel. So at this point,
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  me and my family, two kids and my partner,
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  we're all at 33 countries at the moment.
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  And by 2027, we definitely wanna hit two,
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  three more countries, if you will.
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  So yeah, that's what I do for fun,
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  play with my kids. I also love to watch murder mysteries with my daughter and
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  Fun.
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  solve puzzles, you know, so jigsaw puzzles,
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  IQ puzzles, any of those.
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  You know that that's that's that's a lot.
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  it's like a l a lot of times, you get the either or either I'm doing
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  my career or you know, I'm having fun with my family.
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  But I mean, you're doing your career,
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  you're doing your podcast, you're doing your coaching,
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  and you're, you know, committed to spending time with your family.
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  How how are you managing that effectively without,
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  you know, really l l losing your mind?
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  I mean, it sounds stressful. I mean,
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  just you talking about it, you I've I've got a little bit of sweat,
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  you know, coming down the side of my my forehead here.
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  I think I would boil it down to three things.
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  The first, my definition of success is very personal.
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  I do not go by how the world defines success.
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  And so success for me in motherhood could just be being and playing with my kids.
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  It need not be preparing the best lunches and the most innovative birthday parties.
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  See,
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  Mm-hmm.
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  so I define my success in my profession,
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  in my corporate life, everywhere,
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  whatever I do.
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  The second big part is when I'm with you or when I'm doing something,
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  I'm fully in it. I'm not thinking about 10 other things.
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  did my kid eat? what's gonna happen with that meeting?
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  this guest didn't agree. All of that.
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  I'm not thinking about any of it.
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  When I'm with you, I'm with you.
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  When I'm at it, I'm at it. And the
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  Mm-hmm.
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  last thing that I think is super important is I have my 20% destination items,
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  as I call it in my book, very,
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  very clearly laid out.
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  Mm.
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  That
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  20% is what drives 80% of value in my life.
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  And that's where
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  Mm.
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  I go relentless. That's what I focus on.
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  The rest 80% can be good enough.
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  It can be taken care of by other people,
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  delegated,
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  Mm-hmm.
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  deleted, delayed, any
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  of those.
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  Mm, mm, mm. Wow, that's that's that's powerful.
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  That's really powerful. in the in the in the first component of that,
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  you you talk you talked about essentially you talked about you know what what
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  was good defining your defining success for yourself.
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  basically, you know, what's good enough?
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  How do you there's there's there's pressures,
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  you know, obviously that come from you know other people in our lives,
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  you know, our our bosses, our employees,
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  our our family members, et cetera,
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  et cetera. How do you
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  make that okay for them because they have certain expectations of you as well.
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  That's a very good question, Rick.
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  especially in the context of work,
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  let's say, because it's family,
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  I think it's relatively easier.
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  In the context of work, the way I have navigated it is as follows that one,
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  I'll always align with the organizational priorities.
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  So if the organization needs something,
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  that automatically should be one of those 20% things or the priority that
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  I'm looking at. But the way I define success being personal.
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  I last year, you know, when I was with Amazon,
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  I made a move. I moved from being a people manager,
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  from heading a finance team, to becoming an individual contributor.
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  Now, many people in their career would not do that for the simple
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  Mm-hmm.
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  reason because for them, climbing the ladder means you know,
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  managing bigger and bigger teams.
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  In my head, I was very clear that that year for me.
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  Was when I wanted to spend time writing my book,
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  when I wanted to focus on building my business.
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  And I also wanted to do super high value projects,
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  high visibility things, but limited ones.
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  So that's why
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  Mm.
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  I decided to just move from a people manager role to taking up
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  a business strategy role as an individual contributor.
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  So I was still senior enough, but now I was not managing people.
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  And so the organization's expectations.
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  Are not that you've got to follow the same steps to rise a corporate ladder,
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  but its expectations are how you're driving value.
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  And that is what I don't compromise on.
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  So whether I'm an IC or a people manager or whatever I am,
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  I'm always driving value towards the organizational priorities.
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  And so
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  Mm.
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  that is how you keep it aligned.
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  But of course, you have to then define and chart your own path.
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  Like we also spoke last time, in my head,
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  career is a lattice. It is not a ladder.
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  Yes, absolutely. So when I say career is a lattice,
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  think about how you can grow in three different ways,
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  right? How you're growing your skills.
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  So you're becoming wiser, you're becoming stronger.
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  There's something that you're doing,
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  the there's something that you're learning which you did not know before.
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  So one is how you're growing your skills.
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  The second part is how you're meeting your aspirations,
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  right? So it's a framework which I call SAAF,
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  which means clear in Hindi. So it's S-A-A-F.
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  any move that you do, it doesn't have to be a a lateral upward movement,
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  but the way you have to evaluate your move has to be is it aligned with
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  the skills that you want to gain,
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  right? Second, is it aligned with the aspirations you have?
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  So my aspirations, for instance,
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  last year was to actually write a book,
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  complete a book, build my business to a six-figure level,
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  which I was doing, mind you, alongside with my full-time role at
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  Yeah.
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  company like Amazon, right? The third is how is it aligned with your values?
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  One of the big values I carry is financial independence,
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  and which is why I wanted to build something alongside my full-time role because
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  I did not want to be in a situation where I'm taking on work just because
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  I want to keep afloat. Right.
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  Yeah.
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  also one of my values is how am I driving value to people?
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  How am I changing lives? How is one person leading a better life because
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  of me at least?
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  And so to do that, I really wanted to do my coaching,
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  my leadership development. So how are you in alignment with your values?
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  And the last one, fitment with where you are in your life.
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  Now my elder one is in high school.
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  She's a sophomore. My younger one is in elementary.
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  Both of them do need my time. And honestly,
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  we only have these days, they say 18 summers with our kids.
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  And that's you know dawning on me lately a lot because with my elder one,
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  I probably just have three summers left.
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  Just imagine, right?
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  Mm-hmm.
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  So now is definitely not the time where I want to completely dunk myself
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  in work and not even see my kids,
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  not spend time with them, not talk with them.
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  Totally not acceptable. So I think these are the four things that you need
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  to look at to determine where do you want to go in your career.
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  It doesn't have to be just because everybody wants to become a CEO.
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  need not be your path, need not be,
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  you know, how you chart your journey.
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  And so
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  Mm.
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  think of it like a lattice, lateral movements,
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  different movements, how they can help you grow,
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  meet your aspirations, align with values and still fit with where you
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  are in your life.
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  Mm-hmm. You know, it's I'm I'm I'm thinking about this from the perspective
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  of of being an entrepreneur, you know,
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  and you know, defining what success looks like from that perspective.
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  You know, a lot of times, you know,
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  we think in terms of, you know,
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  growing bigger companies, you know,
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  getting more clients, et cetera,
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  et cetera. But, you know, when you look at it from the perspective of
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  of of the lattice model, you know,
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  there there are certain
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  things that you know we can take into consideration.
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  One one of the things, one of the one of the grievances sometimes,
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  you know, especially in a in a younger company that,
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  you know, as as a founder you have You know,
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  the company just has so many demands.
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  It's like raising like a a toddler.
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  It's just like, come back, get in line,
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  da da da you know, all of all of that good stuff.
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  But you know, it's it's interesting to create those non negotiables while you're
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  building your company.
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  you know, and and be able to take more control because at the end of the day,
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  I mean you you have peace with yourself.
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  You know, and you can, you know,
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  I I've never I never thought about,
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  you know, it's like, you know,
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  I I raised my kids. I never thought about in terms of,
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  you know, the the depleting number of summers that,
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  you know, that we would have together.
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  You know, you know, it's I I just remember so many times the kids come knocking
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  on our doors, Dad working. You know,
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  it's like, but yeah, that's that's brilliant.
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  I love that. I love that.
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  And you know that reminds me, Rick,
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  of this this company to startup.
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  Well, it's been there for some time.
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  It's called Bookosmia, it's in India.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  And the founder is a dear friend,
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  and she had once shared with me this lovely anecdote.
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  She said, Well, so they what Bookosmia does is it's focused on children's books
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  Mm-hmm.
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  and they publish children's works and they also ship books out.
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  So once you know you publish, it also ships out.
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  And she said, You know what? We choose our battles.
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  Very clearly, because we know that in India and the world over,
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  people are used to one-day shipping,
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  two-day shipping by Amazon of any book.
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  But guess
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  Yeah.
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  what? We want to tell our young authors and our young readers that it's okay,
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  sometimes some things take time.
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  So when we ship our books, it's going to take five or six days because that's
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  not the battle we are fighting.
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  We are fighting a very different battle.
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  And so she
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  Mm.
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  said.
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  What I would focus on is making sure that the people who've not got
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  the stage to speak and share their stories are getting the platform to do that.
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  And the battle I'm not willing to fight is logistics.
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  So, you know, when you were saying that there's so many things coming at
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  us from an entrepreneur perspective,
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  I think it's super critical. And like you mentioned,
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  non-negotiables, I would say exactly there that.
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  identify and be super clear on the battles you're fighting,
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  the questions you're solving for,
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  right?
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  Mm, mm,
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  mm. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.
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  the second thing that you mentioned was was presence.
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  And,
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  Mm-hmm.
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  you know, that's that's something that is is is just so important.
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  I I think sometimes, you know,
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  we take it for granted, but we don't really understand.
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  I think, you know, and and and maybe it's just like maybe having
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  ADD or something like that, but I th I think that that is something that that people
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  struggle with. How do you
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  learn
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  Well, I I guess first and foremost,
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  you know, can you define what that really is?
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  And then secondly, how do you learn how to really be present in the moment?
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  I guess the difficulty in this is when you do it just as like you do it,
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  it's difficult to articulate how you do it,
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  but the way I would do it is I would not let my mind go to other places.
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  When I'm listening to my daughter,
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  I'm listening to you. I'm fully listening to what you're saying.
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  I'm letting myself absorb in that completely.
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  It takes
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  Conscious effort to begin with,
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  but once you're used to it, at the end of the day,
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  our brain is a muscle. So it's a mental muscle and a mental faculty that
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  you develop.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  And so being in the moment, being present is actually something you
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  can practice at any point, every time in your life.
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  So if you're sitting in a meeting,
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  be fully there. Don't think about,
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  my god, I haven't said a thing,
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  or what are my investors gonna be saying?
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  This growth doesn't look good.
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  Don't do all of that. Just be there,
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  fully listen. Because
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  Mm-hmm.
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  when you listen, you can respond so much better.
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  You can ask better questions. You can think of better solutions.
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  So
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  Mm.
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  I guess it's it really boils down to when you're with somebody,
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  be fully there and listen. And
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  Mm.
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  you know, I we often think about,
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  I've got to get so many things done.
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  Yeah.
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  And maybe that's the mentality and the mindset shift we need.
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  And no matter what we do, something will get missed out.
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  Yeah.
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  So be fully wherever you are.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I I like that.
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  I one one of the things that I do is is I really try not to worry about like
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  tomorrow, you know, or the next hour.
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  You know, I'm here with you and and and that's it.
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  You know, I I mean the house could be burning down,
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  but but but we're we're we're focused here,
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  you know, because that that's that's important.
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  And and part of it for me, you know,
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  has to do with the why. You know,
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  I want you to have a wonderful experience.
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  I want the g the audience to to to get a lot from the show.
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  So
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  That's th these are some of the some of the battles I'm fighting.
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  But I love it that you said part of it is because of the why.
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  Because I want to give them my undivided attention.
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  So yeah, I love that trick.
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  thank you. Thank you much. Thank you much.
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  the third piece of this is your eighty twenty rule.
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  And
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  Mm-hmm.
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  I want to dig into that a little bit more because that that is something
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  I know that I'm I struggle with.
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  You know, I I look at, you know,
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  my to-do, I was working with my with with my exec yesterday,
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  on our calendar for for next year.
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  And it's just and we're really getting down to what are those things,
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  what are those areas that I can truly provide value.
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  for the for the organization, you know,
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  and just, you know, shifting tasks and that sort of thing.
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  But I I really want to get your expertise on what that really looks like,
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  how to develop that and you know how to how to begin to I don't I don't
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  I don't know if it's not take so much ownership of that eighty percent.
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  Interesting, yes. So you know,
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  I would share with you kind of like two ways I would think about it.
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  So the first one again comes down from success being personal.
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  So the the twenty percent that you choose should be determined not by what
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  the world thinks you need to be doing,
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  but what you fundamentally know you should be doing.
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  So that's
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  Mm.
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  that's the one part. The second part,
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  the the tool or the framework I'll share with you is what I call mint.
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  Why me? Why now? Why this? Right?
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  So for anything that comes on your plate,
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  and especially when you're an entrepreneur,
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  there's so much that must be hitting people,
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  right? So you gotta really think about are you the best person?
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  Are you best placed to respond to this?
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  Are you best placed to do this?
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  Do you have the best skill sets to do this?
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  If not, then it should totally go to somebody else.
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  So that's your body.
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  Why now is does this need to be get done now?
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  Like it's it's something like this.
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  we all have these, you know, ways of working,
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  I could almost call it. Like for me,
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  one of that is I want to get done with cooking breakfast,
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  lunch in the morning itself. I don't want to be thinking about it because that's
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  my time when I just get all of that done.
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  But
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  Mm-hmm.
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  there are times like today when I have a podcast to attend to.
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  And so my lunch will not get cooked probably until 12 in the afternoon.
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  And I gotta be
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  Mm-hmm.
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  okay with it. Because the 20% at this point in time is attending
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  the podcast recording with you.
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  It is not cooking lunch just because that is the way my mindset works.
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  So
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  Mm-hmm.
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  why now? And there's a very trivial example,
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  but in your everyday entrepreneur life too,
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  there will be things that can wait a day.
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  There will be things that can get delayed and delegated out.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  So
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  think about it very clearly.
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  Right? So why me, why now? Why this?
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  Is this activity the best use of my time?
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  The highest ROI on my time at this point in time?
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  And that
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  Mm.
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  is what you need to choose for yourself.
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  And that is something that you do first and foremost.
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  Is this what will help my customers the most?
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  Is this what will help drive the value of the company the most?
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  And is this what will help my people the most?
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  Those are the three metrics that I would always take.
• 17:54
  If I'm thinking about my team,
• 17:56
  my organization, the company I started,
• 17:58
  my startup, any of those. And so those are the three metrics you need
• 18:01
  to think about whenever you say this is what I choose to do right now with my time.
• 18:07
  So that's
• 18:09
  You you know what I like about that is like a lot of times when we talk about
• 18:14
  you know the things that we want to do,
• 18:16
  you know, a lot of times we talk about it from you know conversations I've
• 18:19
  had with people. It's it's it's about,
• 18:21
  you know, the things I do in my free time or et cetera,
• 18:24
  et cetera. But you you talked about it from,
• 18:26
  you know, different areas of responsibility.
• 18:28
  So you took ownership. This is my job,
• 18:30
  this is what people are hiring me to do.
• 18:33
  And this fits into that twenty percent.
• 18:35
  And, you know, this is my family and and they have expectations.
• 18:38
  I I love that. You know, you're you come to the world in a very seamless seem
• 18:42
  to come to the world in a seamless approach.
• 18:44
  There's not like three different versions of you,
• 18:46
  the business owner, the corporate executive and and the mom,
• 18:49
  but it's it's all of that at and in one place.
• 18:52
  And and I love that. I th I think that's absolutely brilliant.
• 18:56
  Thanks, Rick. And I don't know if there's any other way you can operate
• 19:00
  if you have to do a lot. Like you don a lot of hats as well,
• 19:04
  right? So I'm sure there's that level of integration and harmony that's needed
• 19:09
  in all of our lives. You're trying to,
• 19:11
  you know, fulfill multiple of those ambitions that we have.
• 19:15
  Let me put it like.
• 19:16
  absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.
• 19:18
  when we when we spoke before, one of one of the topics we talked about
• 19:22
  was was emotional intelligence.
• 19:23
  And you know, I I see it really tying into the rest,
• 19:26
  you know, what we were just talking about,
• 19:27
  because there is that productivity and responsibility and and life happens,
• 19:32
  you know, and then and we ha and we have to keep going.
• 19:34
  What what do you give us give us your input on emotional intelligence
• 19:39
  and its importance?
• 19:41
  I think I'll start by saying something that Antonio Damasio,
• 19:45
  one of the leading neuroscientists of all times,
• 19:47
  has said. We are we are not thinking machines that feel,
• 19:52
  we are feeling machines that think.
• 19:55
  That's a very important distinction.
• 19:58
  What that means is feelings is what comes to us first.
• 20:02
  And thinking happens later.
• 20:05
  Why that's important is because Whenever we think of emotional intelligence,
• 20:08
  we think of it like a woo-woo concept.
• 20:10
  yeah, we'll take care of the emotions later.
• 20:12
  But guess what? Emotions is the first thing that's gonna hit you.
• 20:16
  Right? So things like worry, guilt,
• 20:19
  anger, all of these are emotions that you actually feel when things
• 20:22
  are not going right. And so you don't think about the solution first.
• 20:25
  First, you feel the emotion. That is where emotional intelligence starts being
• 20:30
  important.
• 20:31
  Because we need to learn in our own lives and with other people how
• 20:36
  to make that shift from being in a fight or flight mode,
• 20:39
  my gosh, nothing is going right,
• 20:41
  to all right, what's in my control?
• 20:43
  What can I do? What's the next best step that I can take?
• 20:47
  Just that much. It doesn't
• 20:47
  Mm. Mm-hmm.
• 20:49
  have to be planning for 20 next years,
• 20:51
  it's just planning for literally the next two minutes,
• 20:54
  next five minutes, next two hours,
• 20:56
  next two days.
• 20:57
  Mm.
• 20:58
  That's all.
• 20:59
  And that is how I would say so.
• 21:01
  Emotional intelligence again is actually you rightly said it's
• 21:06
  so embedded in everything that you know I I do because at the end of the
• 21:11
  day it is managing your mindset is partly also managing the emotions that come.
• 21:17
  So it's it's
• 21:17
  Mm, mm, mm.
• 21:18
  that's how it's interlinked.
• 21:21
  W one one of the challenges I think that we have,
• 21:23
  you know, just because of, you know,
• 21:25
  and and perhaps it's because of our has something to do with
• 21:27
  our dopamine driven society. You know,
• 21:29
  we're we're we tend to be re reactive,
• 21:31
  you know, and and there's there's a I don't know,
• 21:36
  we we we tend to respond to everything that we see.
• 21:40
  It's like, man, that makes me upset or that makes me happier or whatever it is.
• 21:43
  But
• 21:44
  You know, emotional intelligence says that you said that,
• 21:48
  you know, we we slow down and we begin to think about,
• 21:52
  you know, we think before we act.
• 21:53
  And how does that or what do you recommend or on how we learn how to do that?
• 21:59
  How we learn to, you know, really slow down before we think,
• 22:03
  before we act on what what what we're feeling,
• 22:06
  or how you know, even managing those emotions.
• 22:09
  Not easy, takes practice as with most of the things.
• 22:13
  But yeah, I would almost say it's a it's a three-step process,
• 22:16
  Rick. So the first
• 22:17
  Okay.
• 22:18
  one is first of all, start becoming aware.
• 22:20
  What are the kind of situations that tick you,
• 22:23
  trip you, the emotions that you feel?
• 22:25
  First of all, becoming aware that I'm feeling something is the very first step.
• 22:30
  Unless and until you you get into that stage,
• 22:33
  you cannot move to the next part,
• 22:34
  which is creating a pause. Like
• 22:36
  Mm.
• 22:37
  Viktor Frankl had said, I think many of
• 22:39
  Your listeners must have also heard it.
• 22:41
  the freedom, it's the freedom to respond between a stimulus and
• 22:46
  a reaction is basically the place where human growth becomes possible.
• 22:51
  Mm.
• 22:51
  So when you get a stimulus and how you react or respond to it,
• 22:56
  there's a pause, and that pause is what can drive your growth,
• 22:59
  right? So so first of all, become aware of that stimulus and become aware of how.
• 23:06
  the emotion that's coming up from that stimulus.
• 23:08
  The second part then is creating the pause.
• 23:12
  So I can tell you a technique which I have learned from Dr.
• 23:15
  Shirzad Chamine He's somebody who started something called positive intelligence.
• 23:19
  He's I think associated with or had been associated with Stanford at some point
• 23:24
  in time. And so he's given this beautiful technique.
• 23:28
  It's he calls it PQ reps. I basically call it atomic meditation.
• 23:33
  So you you bring your index finger and thumb together,
• 23:36
  you close
• 23:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:37
  your eyes, and you literally do this just for 10 seconds,
• 23:39
  20 seconds, whatever. And you rub them against each other.
• 23:43
  And everybody listening in can actually try it right now live.
• 23:46
  So when you rub it against each other,
• 23:48
  start noticing the ridges on your thumb.
• 23:51
  Start noticing how your skin feels,
• 23:54
  you know, soft, moist, a little bit hard on places.
• 23:59
  See how the different parts of your thumb feel a little bit different?
• 24:03
  And as you start noticing it, right,
• 24:06
  what you have just done is created that pause.
• 24:10
  Now, how do you remember to do this when you're in a stressful time?
• 24:14
  By doing this on a daily basis just for 10,
• 24:18
  20 seconds, 30 seconds. That's it.
• 24:20
  Mm.
• 24:21
  Anywhere you are, you're doing,
• 24:22
  you're waiting on a signal, right?
• 24:25
  Just start doing this. What that does is it creates the neural the mental network.
• 24:31
  And just like you know, when you go hiking,
• 24:33
  you see there are tracks which are created just because people have walked
• 24:36
  on it so much.
• 24:37
  Yeah.
• 24:37
  Similarly,
• 24:38
  in our brain,
• 24:39
  The neural pathways get created when the brain gets activated in
• 24:43
  one fashion again and again. So,
• 24:45
  what you're doing is you're creating that neural pathway in your brain
• 24:48
  so that the next time you have something,
• 24:51
  some sort of anxiety hitting you or some emotion hitting you,
• 24:55
  the moment you put these two together,
• 24:57
  your brain automatically knows it has to go in a pause.
• 25:00
  And the moment you give it that micro-mini-second pause,
• 25:04
  you are now ready to think about okay.
• 25:07
  Now let me think about what's happening.
• 25:09
  How should I react?
• 25:10
  Mm.
• 25:11
  Right. The third step to all of this is actually noticing how often you're able
• 25:17
  to do this. So complete the loop,
• 25:19
  just like for anything else and any learning.
• 25:22
  Look at when you were able to do it,
• 25:25
  because that also establishes back to your brain that this
• 25:28
  is something that's working for me,
• 25:29
  that this pause
• 25:30
  Mm.
• 25:30
  is helping me. And so the brain strengthens that again and again.
• 25:35
  And that's how it helps you. So this is one technique,
• 25:38
  but definitely another thing I and not but sorry,
• 25:43
  another thing I would also say is just knowing the cost of getting emotions
• 25:49
  the better of you sometimes can drive habit changes.
• 25:53
  So take
• 25:53
  Hm, mm.
• 25:55
  time to reflect on.
• 25:57
  How would you have behaved, reacted differently if you wouldn't have been
• 26:02
  all emotional?
• 26:03
  Hmm. Mm. Yeah, I was I've been ruminating over the past month or so about
• 26:08
  the idea of emotional tax. It's like the thing
• 26:10
  Mm.
• 26:11
  happens, you know, it's just like,
• 26:13
  okay, that's you know, that's there,
• 26:14
  whatever it is, but the emotional tax kind of kind of weighs with you a little bit,
• 26:18
  you know, just like I'm frustrated or disappointed or or or or happy
• 26:21
  or or whatever that is. And, you know,
• 26:23
  just learning to be aware of that's been I've I've found that to be helpful,
• 26:28
  just in terms of being able to to get you know,
• 26:30
  to get re centered.
• 26:31
  again. It's like, you know, like you said,
• 26:33
  it's like ident identify it clearly.
• 26:35
  It's like this is d distracting.
• 26:36
  okay, let me deal with that and then,
• 26:38
  you know, move on to the next thing,
• 26:39
  get, you know, get back in a good place.
• 26:41
  One of one of the challenges that we face as as entrepreneurs is is that
• 26:47
  a burnout and really getting our,
• 26:48
  you know, really
• 26:50
  getting our mindset for the day,
• 26:53
  you know, or whatever period in in the right place.
• 26:56
  So it's not necessarily, you know,
• 26:57
  just a a stimulus reaction, but it's actually,
• 27:00
  you know, the situation that we're in.
• 27:03
  And we have to get into a place of high productivity,
• 27:06
  regardless of, you know, what's happening in,
• 27:09
  you know, whatever other realm.
• 27:10
  Do you have any techniques or thoughts or recommendations on how to do that?
• 27:14
  I think so before we get to the techniques,
• 27:18
  Rick, let's think about what happens in the case of burnout.
• 27:21
  Like what are the things that cause it or any moment feeling overwhelmed?
• 27:25
  Because
• 27:26
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:27
  I I think there are two things that are happening,
• 27:29
  right? One, we have deliverables or things to do which are due in
• 27:34
  a very short period of time or something we need to do.
• 27:37
  The second
• 27:37
  Yeah.
• 27:37
  thing, there's a lot of distractions which are coming at us.
• 27:40
  So there are people pinging us,
• 27:41
  there are people needing our help.
• 27:43
  So all of that is happening. Along with that,
• 27:47
  if I think about it, there is this additional pressure,
• 27:50
  the social pressure, the you know,
• 27:52
  so all of that pieces combined together is what is causing the the overwhelm
• 27:57
  and the burnout. The way I would like to think about the burnout is again,
• 28:02
  if you were to think that, so I would say there are three sort
• 28:08
  of again techniques I would give.
• 28:10
  The first one is for any day.
• 28:13
  How do you define your most important task?
• 28:15
  So there will be things which will always be clamoring for your attention.
• 28:19
  But then
• 28:20
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:20
  what is that one most important thing that needs to,
• 28:23
  needs to, needs to get done today?
• 28:25
  And so, you know, that when we build our to-do lists,
• 28:29
  we always think of our to-do lists as things that need to be completed today.
• 28:34
  Start
• 28:35
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:35
  building your to-do list as your RAM,
• 28:37
  random access memory. What I mean by that is.
• 28:40
  Use them as your brain dump. So you're not thinking about all the things that
• 28:44
  I need to get done. That's in the list.
• 28:45
  But that list
• 28:46
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:46
  is not the list of things I need to do today.
• 28:49
  Highlight
• 28:49
  Mm.
• 28:50
  in that just the one important thing every single day and cross only that one out.
• 28:55
  So
• 28:55
  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 28:56
  it might not it might seem very non-intuitive,
• 29:00
  just crossing out one thing. How will that help with burnout?
• 29:02
  But you have to understand how the brain works,
• 29:06
  the dopamine that we discussed about.
• 29:08
  Crossing out one big piece, it starts that reward circuitry in your brain already
• 29:14
  that, wow, I can get stuff done today.
• 29:16
  And then you start getting things off your list.
• 29:19
  And the the one thing you have to game your brain with is every morning
• 29:24
  you decide that one task and tell yourself,
• 29:26
  if I get only that one thing done,
• 29:29
  I'll be happy. Everything else is a bonus.
• 29:31
  And so imagine what's happening in the evening when you've crossed
• 29:34
  out more than that one thing.
• 29:36
  That's already a bonus. You're already at a place of,
• 29:39
  I'm doing more than what I had decided up to.
• 29:42
  So
• 29:43
  Yeah.
• 29:43
  that's your you know day part.
• 29:45
  Then comes your weekly part. Every Sunday,
• 29:49
  Monday morning, Saturday evening,
• 29:51
  whatever that works for you. For me,
• 29:53
  a Sunday evening works. I sit and plan out what's due this week.
• 29:57
  And this could be things if I'm managing teams,
• 30:00
  it could be about people management.
• 30:02
  It could be what are some of the things that I want my team to be focused on.
• 30:05
  What deliverables are due. when I was in finance,
• 30:08
  it would be a lot time a lot of times about if it's a month end,
• 30:12
  if it's a quarter end, what are those kinds of things which are going to be due,
• 30:15
  workshops which I'm taking, some coaching engagements I'm starting,
• 30:19
  podcasts that I'm recording, all of that.
• 30:21
  Get it all together and
• 30:23
  Mm-hmm.
• 30:23
  ensure you know this week what all will be needing your attention.
• 30:28
  The
• 30:28
  Mm-hmm.
• 30:28
  reason you need to do that is also understand every week you will start having.
• 30:34
  Request for more things happening.
• 30:36
  When you have this very clear in your mind that how this week looks like,
• 30:40
  you are able to say no much more on the go than you know having to think,
• 30:45
  saying yes, and then saying, I don't have the time.
• 30:48
  So plan it better. Use that one hour,
• 30:48
  Yeah.
• 30:51
  45 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever it takes you to do that.
• 30:55
  Now, another thing I'll tell you,
• 30:56
  especially for entrepreneurs, because
• 30:59
  Your calendars might be at different places.
• 31:02
  You may have one family calendar,
• 31:03
  you may have one at the office,
• 31:05
  you may have one somewhere else.
• 31:06
  Please integrate them. That is one of,
• 31:08
  I mean, you know, these are those things that save you so much time
• 31:13
  and energy and bandwidth if you're not already doing it.
• 31:16
  So please integrate, get it all in one place so you can quickly take a look.
• 31:20
  These are the big things due this week.
• 31:22
  This is how I'm gonna be planning.
• 31:24
  So these
• 31:25
  Mm.
• 31:25
  are the things that can help you prevent.
• 31:28
  the burnout and prevent some of that.
• 31:30
  The last one that I'm gonna share with you is what can help you as you're
• 31:35
  in that overwhelm zone. So what can help you and what at least helps me
• 31:40
  is and it may sound super weird and counterintuitive,
• 31:43
  but just take five minutes, 10 minutes break and lie down on the ground,
• 31:49
  walk barefoot on the grass, go hug a tree,
• 31:52
  sit in front of if you have a river,
• 31:54
  lake, sea, shore, anything.
• 31:57
  Just go spend those 10 minutes in nature.
• 31:59
  And I'm telling you, when you share your overwhelm with nature,
• 32:04
  it will just give you the solutions.
• 32:07
  And I know it sounds super woo-woo,
• 32:09
  but trust
• 32:09
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:10
  me, I've done it. There was a time I was in Seattle and I was so overwhelmed.
• 32:15
  we used to be in, you know, SLU South Lake Union area.
• 32:19
  And so from there I went to Seattle Arboretum.
• 32:21
  There's an arboretum very close by.
• 32:24
  And you cannot imagine. I I went to the arboretum with my bag,
• 32:27
  everything. I opened my shoes,
• 32:29
  I climbed up a tree, and I just sat there and I cried from probably 10-15 minutes.
• 32:35
  And I felt like the tree was literally hugging me.
• 32:39
  And you know, there there is something about when you give yourself over to nature,
• 32:46
  it will give something back to you.
• 32:49
  And it's
• 32:49
  I
• 32:50
  Cannot quantify it, but trust me it works.
• 32:52
  Give it a try.
• 32:54
  Mm, mm, mm. Yeah. My my sister tells me that all the time.
• 32:57
  She's just like, get out in the sun.
• 32:58
  You know, take your shoes off.
• 33:00
  Walk it walk in the grass. And you know,
• 33:02
  I I have to be honest with you.
• 33:03
  I mean, I'm, you know, always resistant to it.
• 33:06
  But, you know, whenever I do it,
• 33:07
  you know, it it works. It it absolutely works.
• 33:10
  I I I enjoy that. You know, it's it's you know,
• 33:13
  I've been I'm in the South, so you know,
• 33:14
  we can do that like nine months out of the year and it's it's it's really
• 33:17
  beneficial. I haven't I haven't I haven't gone to hugging trees yet.
• 33:21
  I I hear I hear good things, but but you know,
• 33:23
  that's that's just not been one of my things.
• 33:24
  That's all right. Do whatever you can.
• 33:27
  But I yeah.
• 33:28
  But there is something powerful about nature.
• 33:31
  I think
• 33:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:32
  we just don't have the science figured out as yet.
• 33:35
  That's powerful.
• 33:35
  Yeah.
• 33:36
  Yeah. And I and I think that's okay.
• 33:39
  You know, I mean it's it's interesting.
• 33:40
  I I have this argument with you know some of the some of the LLMs.
• 33:44
  It's just like, you know, it's just like there's there's all of this,
• 33:46
  you know, historical data on on you know these spiritual interactions
• 33:50
  and that sort of thing. And, you know,
• 33:52
  how c how can we not have like,
• 33:53
  you know, data, you know, that we can 'cause it's happening to so many people.
• 33:57
  It's the same story over and over again.
• 33:58
  It's just like, you know, I I don't get it.
• 34:01
  You you are you are an entrepreneur and you have a family around you.
• 34:05
  You know, and I know for I know for me,
• 34:08
  you know, as an entrepreneur, my family has to have or my family had to
• 34:11
  put up with with with my stuff.
• 34:13
  You know, it's just like, you know,
• 34:14
  it's it's late nights, it's, you know,
• 34:16
  conversations, it's me being really loud on my podcast or,
• 34:19
  you know, whatever it is. And and they have to,
• 34:21
  you know, kind of work around that.
• 34:23
  And you talk to me a little bit about your experience and and
• 34:26
  the challenges like with your family.
• 34:28
  Can you can you talk about that a little bit?
• 34:30
  Would love to Rick. and actually the experience that I'm gonna share
• 34:35
  is slightly from a different perspective as a family or as a spouse
• 34:39
  of an entrepreneur. And the reason I want to do that is because I think
• 34:44
  I have lived that more closely,
• 34:46
  and that will give your listeners an insight into what their families might
• 34:51
  be feeling and facing. Right. so my so I'm an entrepreneur,
• 34:55
  yes, but and so is my partner.
• 34:58
  He has his own fund. So when we moved to the US,
• 35:00
  his idea was, okay, I'm done with corporate life.
• 35:02
  You do health insurance. I'm gonna go start my fund.
• 35:05
  So that is what we did. And so for the last almost six years,
• 35:09
  he has been having his own fund.
• 35:11
  And as you can imagine, it's a public markets fund.
• 35:13
  So obviously it gets impacted and he invests in India and emerging markets.
• 35:18
  And so what happens is it gets impacted by how the markets are doing
• 35:22
  in those regions. ~
• 35:23
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:24
  Iran, US war.
• 35:25
  Russia-Ukraine war, none of that does any good to him.
• 35:28
  And so I have been in situations where,
• 35:32
  you know, so entrepreneurs, when they are going through these really tough periods,
• 35:37
  sometimes they would want to take everything out.
• 35:40
  And so, you know, everyone who's listening in,
• 35:42
  you might be sharing a lot with your partner.
• 35:44
  But at the same time, what your partner is going through is that they
• 35:48
  are having the emotional turmoils of their own as well.
• 35:51
  And so here they are.
• 35:53
  Being a container for everything that you're going through and being
• 35:57
  a container for what the family is going through as well.
• 36:00
  So, you know, be cognizant of when that's happening.
• 36:04
  Because sometimes when we are so deep into everything that's going wrong
• 36:09
  in our lives, we're not realizing that people around us are also having
• 36:14
  a life which we are not privy to fully.
• 36:17
  You know, like
• 36:17
  Mm.
• 36:18
  they are facing certain things,
• 36:20
  ups and downs in their own lives.
• 36:21
  So that is one thing that I would definitely.
• 36:23
  Say. The second thing that happens is yes,
• 36:26
  there are tactical aspects of it.
• 36:28
  And I really like the concept of what I learned in coaching way,
• 36:33
  way like almost a decade ago, which is called designing an alliance.
• 36:37
  So, how do you design an alliance?
• 36:38
  The way you design an alliance is you talk to your partner,
• 36:42
  to your family about this is where I need your support,
• 36:46
  but this is where I am for you at all points.
• 36:50
  I love that.
• 36:50
  So between
• 36:51
  the two of us, for instance, we had this arrangement that he would definitely take
• 36:56
  care of, mostly taking kids to,
• 36:58
  you know, their classes and such,
• 37:00
  because oftentimes I would be at work and then,
• 37:02
  you know, doing my entrepreneur stuff.
• 37:04
  At the same time, anything which is an early morning or a late night ritual will
• 37:09
  always be me because India markets would be open at that time and
• 37:12
  his India partners he would be having calls with and things like that.
• 37:16
  Mm-hmm.
• 37:16
  So design an alliance that's very helpful because then that gives a language,
• 37:21
  a shared language for everybody in your family to actually know what they
• 37:25
  can expect, what sort of a support they can expect from you,
• 37:28
  and vice versa. The last thing I would say is again,
• 37:33
  be self reflective, see how things are impacting you,
• 37:37
  journal it, share it with them,
• 37:39
  share it with a friend.
• 37:41
  But also know that they are also going through their own.
• 37:44
  And so every once in a while, when you ask them,
• 37:48
  hey, how are you feeling? Wait for the answer.
• 37:51
  And just be there and listen. Because they may say,
• 37:55
  yeah, all okay. And be like, okay,
• 37:58
  no, tell me more. Right? So
• 37:59
  Mm, mm.
• 38:01
  just that with your kids, with your families,
• 38:04
  with probably your parents if they stay with you or something of that sort,
• 38:07
  can be so much
• 38:09
  i i it can be a huge difference because suddenly now,
• 38:13
  even for those five minutes, you're available for them and that matters.
• 38:17
  I don't know if that answered your question,
• 38:20
  right.
• 38:21
  No, no, that's that's so good.
• 38:22
  That's so good. I mean, you know,
• 38:24
  a lot of I mean the conversation that we have is you know,
• 38:27
  as entrepreneurs is we're in this journey alone,
• 38:28
  da da da. You know, and you know,
• 38:31
  taking on someone else's challenges isn't always isn't always top of mind.
• 38:35
  But I I love the way that you describe the the the team approach,
• 38:39
  that that alliance approach. I mean that that I I I think the the
• 38:45
  it puts you on a shared journey,
• 38:46
  you know, that way. You know, and and,
• 38:49
  you know, again, be you know, being present,
• 38:50
  you know, for that other person,
• 38:52
  you know, again, it it just, you know,
• 38:54
  just strengthens that that that bond,
• 38:57
  you know, you have with that other person,
• 38:58
  your family, your your partner or whomever that is.
• 39:01
  I I absolutely love that. I the entrepreneurial lifestyle is is not,
• 39:05
  predictable. It's not, you know,
• 39:07
  easy, et cetera, et cetera.
• 39:09
  But I feel like what you're sharing with us really helps us not be alone,
• 39:13
  you know, and be able to contribute to other people,
• 39:17
  which a lot of times as entrepreneurs,
• 39:19
  that's really what we want to do.
• 39:20
  You know, we talk think about contributing to our clients and our staff
• 39:23
  and our and that sort of thing,
• 39:25
  but that intimate, you know, between our family members and close friends,
• 39:29
  I I think that there's something incredible to be said about that,
• 39:32
  especially when we're not looking at it from a I have to do this because
• 39:36
  it makes me money.
• 39:37
  You know,
• 39:37
  or it's gonna cost me money. I mean,
• 39:39
  I th I think that that's beautiful.
• 39:40
  I th I think that's wonderful.
• 39:41
  Thank you for sharing that.
• 39:42
  I want to hear, we all wanna hear.
• 39:44
  We've been waiting for forty-one minutes to hear about your book.
• 39:48
  inspiration behind it and who's it for and and what you want people to
• 39:52
  get out of it.
• 39:54
  Absolutely, Rick. More than happy to talk about it.
• 39:56
  Inspiration, my own almost burnout journey.
• 40:01
  almost a decade ago, so 2018.
• 40:04
  the first few months in Dubai walking on the marina,
• 40:07
  realizing my god, this is not the version of mom,
• 40:11
  wife, person who I want to be.
• 40:13
  And so that is what started it all.
• 40:15
  You know, one morning I just snapped at my daughter.
• 40:18
  For something that she had come to me,
• 40:20
  I can't get this question in math.
• 40:21
  And I was like, You can't get this?
• 40:23
  What are you gonna amount to in life?
• 40:24
  And imagine that's such a such a bad way to handle your own kid,
• 40:29
  right? And so the moment I said it,
• 40:32
  I was like, shoot, this is not working.
• 40:34
  And so the book's genesis is from there.
• 40:39
  I wrote it in one year, but like I've mentioned in the book as well,
• 40:42
  it has.
• 40:44
  Over two decades of my learning as a leader,
• 40:47
  as a mom, as a wife, you know,
• 40:49
  all the relationships I've been as a coach,
• 40:51
  all of that. the book is for anybody and everybody,
• 40:55
  but more so it is because all the examples,
• 40:58
  people who are in the corporate space,
• 41:00
  they're entrepreneurs, they're leaders of any at any levels,
• 41:04
  they will be the people who can relate it to the most because
• 41:08
  of everything that I've talked about in the book.
• 41:10
  Mm-hmm.
• 41:10
  As an
• 41:11
  entrepreneur myself and as a corporate leader myself and as a mom and
• 41:14
  as you know somebody who straddles between all of these things.
• 41:18
  the big, big message of the book is really around the three things that I spoke.
• 41:23
  So the big message of the book is that Productivity,
• 41:26
  first of all, the way we define it,
• 41:28
  is not just getting things done,
• 41:30
  it's doing things that add value to our lives.
• 41:34
  Mm-hmm.
• 41:34
  And when we think of productivity like that.
• 41:37
  Time management is not the solution.
• 41:39
  You have to start managing your mind because unproductive behavior stems from three
• 41:44
  things. It stems from our fears because we are fearful,
• 41:49
  we are not able to take stance and we're not able to do things which
• 41:53
  we should be doing that actually add value to our lives.
• 41:54
  Mm. Mm-hmm.
• 41:56
  Second,
• 41:57
  it stems from
• 41:59
  Misplaced beliefs. So start challenging those beliefs.
• 42:02
  And that is some of the tools and techniques that I give in the book as well.
• 42:06
  And the last one, once you've done these,
• 42:08
  is how you manage effectively.
• 42:10
  So to avoid distractions, to get more focused,
• 42:13
  to plan better, to structure better,
• 42:16
  to use technology to do some of these things.
• 42:19
  So it's a simple
• 42:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 42:20
  three-part framework that talks about taming your fears,
• 42:23
  challenging your beliefs, and then executing effectively.
• 42:26
  Mm.
• 42:26
  And so
• 42:27
  in the book you will find tools and techniques for each of these,
• 42:31
  for procrastination, for feeling not good enough,
• 42:34
  for always comparing with other people,
• 42:36
  for managing distractions, for not being able to say no.
• 42:40
  So like every simple thing that we face in our lives,
• 42:44
  you're gonna have tools and techniques and practices that you can literally
• 42:48
  use the very day as you read it.
• 42:51
  Wow, that sounds excellent. That sounds excellent.
• 42:53
  And the name of the book?
• 42:56
  It's called Fearless Productivity Mindset Pivots to Maximize Life.
• 43:01
  Fantastic. And it's available on at Amazon or and do you have a web is
• 43:04
  Amazon. Yes, it's available at Amazon.
• 43:06
  it on your website as well?
• 43:08
  Yes, it's on my website and the links are everywhere and I can share with you.
• 43:12
  You can put it on your show notes.
• 43:14
  so it's available on Amazon, it's available in bookstores,
• 43:17
  so anywhere in the US, worldwide,
• 43:20
  anywhere people are listening in from.
• 43:22
  Fantastic. It sounds like a fantastic read.
• 43:24
  I'm I'm excited for you 'cause this sounds like a a wonderful journey,
• 43:28
  I think that that's such a privilege.
• 43:29
  So congratulations for that.
• 43:31
  Thank you. And just you know, recently we were also the book was also nominated
• 43:36
  as number sixth in the hot new bestsellers for Amazon.
• 43:40
  Wow.
• 43:40
  So that was super cool. ~
• 43:43
  Yeah.
• 43:43
  super excited about.
• 43:45
  I'm excited. I'm excited. Fantastic.
• 43:47
  last question for you. so as you know,
• 43:48
  the name of the show is the Relentless Pursuit of Winning podcast.
• 43:51
  And so what I ask my guests is,
• 43:54
  you know, it's it's very easy,
• 43:55
  it's relatively easy for people to define what winning looks like.
• 43:58
  The harder part is being able to maintain that relentless pursuit.
• 44:03
  So my question for you is what would you recommend to our audience
• 44:06
  to encourage them or inspire them to maintain that relentless pursuit of winning?
• 44:12
  If I were to say one word, I would say listen.
• 44:14
  Listen to yourself, listen to your customers,
• 44:18
  listen to intuition, listen to what history has to tell you.
• 44:23
  Listen to the trends which are gonna happen.
• 44:27
  Just listen well. If you inculcate that one faculty of listening well,
• 44:33
  you don't have to worry about the relentless pursuit.
• 44:38
  That is so good. That is so good.
• 44:39
  The Bible talks about like wisdom from that perspective.
• 44:42
  It's everywhere. You know, you just have to listen.
• 44:45
  You just have to pay attention.
• 44:46
  I I I love that. I love that. Excellent.
• 44:48
  Excellent. if someone gets in wants to get in touch with you,
• 44:50
  what's the best way to do that?
• 44:52
  The best way to get in touch with me is my LinkedIn as well as my website.
• 44:56
  So both of them, you have a way to access me.
• 44:59
  Feel free to follow me on LinkedIn and also touch base with me.
• 45:03
  Fantastic, fantastic. Shruti, thank you so much for being on the show.
• 45:06
  I enjoyed our conversation.
• 45:08
  Thank you so much for having me,
• 45:09
  Rick. I also enjoyed the conversation.
• 45:11
  Thank you so much for your insightful questions.
• 45:15
  Thank you. Thank you.
• 45:16
  And folks, thank you so much for watching or listening to another episode
• 45:19
  of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning podcast.
• 45:21
  We'll catch you next time.