Latest / The Nerdy Photographer Podcast / 156 - The Big Pivot: Rebranding Your Photography Career for New Opportunities

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156 - The Big Pivot: Rebranding Your Photography Career for New Opportunities · The Nerdy Photographer Podcast

• 0:04
  Casey Fatchett: Okay and turn snack. I know it's heavy, but we
• 0:10
  need to get it around this corner. Oh, hey there. Welcome
• 0:13
  to the nerdy photographer podcast. I'm your host. Casey
• 0:16
  Fatchett, if this is your first time listening, welcome. Be sure
• 0:20
  to subscribe so you don't miss out on future episodes. If you
• 0:23
  have been listening for a while, listen, I appreciate you. I
• 0:27
  really, really do in addition to providing informative and
• 0:31
  entertaining photography related info on this show, I also go on
• 0:34
  adventures with the crew of the starship Fibonacci. Right now
• 0:37
  golden hour and I are trying to get this awkwardly shaped cargo
• 0:42
  container up a flight of stairs, and I keep telling him, we can
• 0:46
  do it, if we just turn the container accordingly,
• 0:50
  Gulden Hauer: snug, snug, snug, snug, snug, snug, snug, snug,
• 0:55
  snug, snug, snug.
• 0:57
  Casey Fatchett: Listen, I know you're shorter than I am. You
• 0:59
  are also 10 times as strong. Yeah, snug, you're welcome.
• 1:05
  Speaking of make turns on this episode of the podcast, I
• 1:09
  interview photographer Justin Haugen about pivoting from a
• 1:11
  career in weddings into commercial photography. We
• 1:14
  discuss tips and ideas for photographers who are looking at
• 1:17
  making a change in their career. That conversation after the
• 1:20
  break, snag, I'm not going to say it, just turn it clockwise.
• 1:32
  Hey there, nerds. The nerdy photographer has a brand new
• 1:34
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• 3:33
  let's do this. All right. You ready? I'm ready. Hello and
• 3:37
  welcome to the nerdy photographer podcast. I'm your
• 3:39
  host, Casey Fatchett, and with me today is photographer Justin
• 3:44
  Haugen. Justin, welcome to the show.
• 3:48
  Casey Fatchett: And before we get into the conversation, we're
• 3:51
  gonna start with the dice breaker. It's a 20. What do you
• 3:56
  what brand of this is the natural 20? What is your brand
• 3:59
  of camera that you prefer, and what you get to evangelize about
• 4:03
  it for however you want, however long you want.
• 4:07
  Justin Haugen: This is a loaded question. I I've shot canon was
• 4:12
  my start for 10 years, Nikon for seven, and then now Sony for the
• 4:16
  last four or five years, and my real love is Fuji. I daily, I
• 4:25
  daily drive a Sony, a one, but my my actual like, when I want
• 4:30
  to have fun and capture my memories or do personal work, I
• 4:33
  shoot with a Fuji XD two that I've had for for eight years
• 4:37
  now. It's, it's good that camera's going on almost a
• 4:39
  decade of life already, so I'm, I'm a big fan of Fuji, just
• 4:44
  something about it really resonates with me. It's like a
• 4:47
  bridge between the film and the digital world and and now it's
• 4:52
  vintage enough to feel like after almost 10 years, it feels
• 4:56
  just not up to speed with the modern camera tech. I. And
• 5:00
  there's something about it just feels a little more deliberate
• 5:02
  and purposeful, like I take my time when I shoot with it, and
• 5:05
  so that's, that's my, my baby.
• 5:06
  Casey Fatchett: Now, yeah, you're well rounded as far as
• 5:09
  experience with different camera brands. Yeah, there's a whole,
• 5:13
  there's a whole market for vintage digital cameras now,
• 5:16
  like it's become a big thing. Gen Z really wants to, like, is
• 5:21
  gobbling up all the vintage digital cameras they can because
• 5:25
  they don't want to use their phones anymore.
• 5:28
  Justin Haugen: I wish I still had it in 2001 to 2003 I had my
• 5:33
  dad's Sony Mavica, and it was the the the three and a half
• 5:38
  inch floppy slap, like 13 photos out of it.
• 5:41
  Casey Fatchett: I had the one, yeah, I had the one that burned
• 5:44
  to a miniature CD. Oh yeah, that was where I would do portraits
• 5:48
  with that, because it was great for portraits like and you it
• 5:52
  was like a two megapixel camera and like you get, like, great,
• 5:55
  like, you get a great eight by 10 out of it. But because it had
• 5:59
  a Zeiss built that built in Zeiss lens, which was, like,
• 6:03
  really, really nice. But like, the whole thing of buffering,
• 6:07
  because it's writing to a little CD inside the camera at the same
• 6:11
  time, like it was not good. You couldn't do events with that.
• 6:14
  Things happen a lot, way too quickly to be able to use that
• 6:18
  for events.
• 6:19
  Justin Haugen: Yeah, I remember this thing having a mega zoom on
• 6:21
  it, like a 20 optical and, yeah, zoom in pretty far I would, I
• 6:24
  used to photograph motorsport, and I'd be in the in the
• 6:27
  grandstands, trying to get stuff
• 6:28
  Casey Fatchett: on the track. Yeah, it was all optical. It
• 6:30
  wasn't. There's no, like, digital interpolation. So Justin
• 6:35
  to give our listeners a little back, what is give our listeners
• 6:39
  a little background in what your photography voyage has been.
• 6:45
  Justin Haugen: Every time I do a podcast, the voyage is longer
• 6:49
  and longer and so like when I first did this, probably 10
• 6:52
  years ago, being on a podcast, it was a lot less to explain,
• 6:55
  but I'll try to wrap it up succinctly. So I started
• 6:59
  photography in 2004 roughly, I was going to school here at the
• 7:03
  University of Arizona. I was doing graphic design, and I just
• 7:06
  had a need for digital images. I was really into photo
• 7:09
  manipulation, and I thought that's where my career was going
• 7:12
  to lie in editing photos and doing I was really into
• 7:15
  commercial like advertising was where I wanted to be. I wanted
• 7:18
  to make ads like double truck ads, if I could photograph and
• 7:21
  edit and create advertising for brands. That's where I saw my
• 7:24
  interest in and I was I had a friend who had gifted me, well,
• 7:30
  lent me the first digital rebel camera, and I started shooting
• 7:35
  cars right away, because I 20 years old. You're into cars
• 7:38
  because I drove with Nissan Sentra, 98 Nissan Sentra. And
• 7:43
  all I wanted was like a much better car. So I was really into
• 7:46
  that scene. I and my very first car that I photographed, I sent
• 7:50
  it off to a magazine where I had some I had made some
• 7:53
  connections, and I said, Hey, this might be a car you guys
• 7:55
  want to have come out to your studio in Huntington Beach and
• 7:58
  and feature in the magazine. And I sent them a set of images that
• 8:01
  I photographed, all JPEG, no raws. I didn't even know how to
• 8:04
  process a raw photo. And they said, sounds good. How's $200
• 8:08
  like? So my very first, yeah, and I've got a collection of
• 8:12
  magazines, of features I shot over the years for them, and
• 8:16
  that, that was my photography journey for up until, like, 2007
• 8:20
  2008 I was really into the motorsport scene, and I was
• 8:24
  getting featured in these magazines and and then, you
• 8:26
  know, picking up some clients here and there. I shot a wedding
• 8:29
  in like, 2006 and then for a while, I started realizing I
• 8:35
  wasn't making much money doing this, you know, driving to
• 8:38
  Phoenix or to LA to get 300 bucks for getting some photo,
• 8:41
  taking some photos. It didn't really offset my cost. So I was
• 8:44
  like net negative on everything. And weddings came up, and I
• 8:49
  started to realize I had a love for portraiture, photographing
• 8:52
  people, maybe live events, and then, and then it kind of, I
• 8:55
  feel like the natural progression is wedding. So I got
• 8:58
  into the wedding scene. So I always had a day job up through
• 9:02
  2013 and as the side gig, all I did was, you know, nightlife,
• 9:07
  photography events started getting a wedding workflow down,
• 9:11
  and in 2013 I was laid off from my job for my former employer.
• 9:15
  They, they, I, I realized I didn't have a lot of other
• 9:20
  skills going and never finished my bachelor's degree, and
• 9:24
  photography was kind of it. I used to go on walks with a buddy
• 9:27
  of mine at work, and we would talk about, what would you do
• 9:29
  if, you know, if you lost your job? Like, we make give it a go,
• 9:33
  like, give, take a shot at this, this photography thing, or he
• 9:37
  was a graphic designer. And funny enough, we both, he got
• 9:40
  let go a few years ago, and he's doing freelance graphic design,
• 9:43
  and now I've been doing my business since 2013 full time. I
• 9:47
  went into wedding photography. I spent a year kind of in a deep
• 9:51
  depression because I was just turning 30, started working on
• 9:54
  my website, got my SEO organically, the number one in
• 9:58
  Tucson for Tucson wedding photography. Hours. And come
• 10:00
  2014 the start of the year, I I was getting multiple inquiries a
• 10:05
  day, and I booked out my entire year in the first month of
• 10:08
  January, when when people started planning their weddings
• 10:10
  for the year. So that was my my journey up through starting it
• 10:14
  full time. Around 2019 my former employer became my new client,
• 10:21
  and so I have a PO with them, and they're, they're one of my
• 10:23
  big accounts now, and I started to notice a transition in my
• 10:26
  work where I thought maybe I was more interested in the
• 10:32
  commercial, corporate side of things. The ROI was greater for
• 10:35
  my time invested. The work was more regular Monday through
• 10:38
  Friday. It wasn't as seasonal. We drop off in the summertime
• 10:41
  here for weddings because of the heat, and I just started to
• 10:44
  realize my passion for weddings was starting to diminish, and
• 10:47
  maybe I wasn't serving like my couples as well as I had been
• 10:51
  with my initial enthusiasm for it all when I first started
• 10:56
  doing it. And so 2020 hits pandemic. My business just
• 11:00
  crashes. 2021 I meet my wife, we start family planning, and then
• 11:05
  2022 my daughter's born. And that's when I made the full
• 11:10
  shift into away from weddings. I think I shot my last wedding in
• 11:13
  2022 and it went primarily commercial work, corporate
• 11:21
  events. And then I was doing some part time work, customer
• 11:23
  service for MagMod. And then, and then 2324 were like my
• 11:28
  biggest years of my career. I picked up a new client that was
• 11:31
  regular work in the mining industry. And up to now, and
• 11:35
  now, my son was born this year, and here I am. It's mostly life
• 11:41
  is different now. So we can get into that. But yeah, that's kind
• 11:44
  of the journey in the last 20 years of photography.
• 11:48
  Casey Fatchett: I think that there's a lot that goes into
• 11:50
  what you just there's it brings up a lot of things for me. Like,
• 11:53
  listen that, as somebody who's mostly a wedding photographer,
• 11:58
  been doing it for 25 years, there's something when you said,
• 12:01
  like, I wasn't serving my clients, I think that's
• 12:03
  something that a lot of people could could take a note from,
• 12:09
  because there are people out there who like they feel that
• 12:12
  they have to keep going because of that's what they've been
• 12:16
  doing. And there's not a sense of like, oh, what I'm doing
• 12:20
  might actually be hurting my clients, because I am not in it
• 12:26
  anymore. And that's the thing that I come to probably every
• 12:30
  four or five years, sit down with myself and be like, am I
• 12:33
  still in this? Am I still do I still have the same measure of
• 12:39
  joy, I guess because it's a tough business. It's a tough,
• 12:45
  like, it's a really tough business. And like you're
• 12:47
  saying, like having, I'm getting to a point, and just in the in
• 12:51
  as I'm getting older, where I'm pulling back a little bit from
• 12:55
  the weddings being more selective, because I want to
• 12:59
  spend more time with my wife. I want to spend more time with my
• 13:02
  friends. My friends. It was been 25 years of, oh, we don't see
• 13:06
  you all summer, because that's when the busy season is here.
• 13:10
  And, you know, people be like, Oh, well, May to October. We're
• 13:13
  not going to see Casey. And there's, you know, like, what am
• 13:16
  I missing out on? And I'm sure, as a father, you're like,
• 13:20
  sitting there going, like, Hey, this is this when you were
• 13:23
  planning. You're like, hey, like, what am I going to be
• 13:24
  doing? Am I even going to be around, like, if I'm doing
• 13:27
  weddings? But I think people are afraid to take that step, to
• 13:31
  move in a different direction. They feel like that they're
• 13:35
  somehow failing if they readjust their vision of what their
• 13:42
  photography business is.
• 13:45
  Justin Haugen: Yeah, I think that I always been a pretty well
• 13:50
  rounded photographer. And I think I firmly believe, if you
• 13:53
  photograph weddings, you can photograph any other genre of
• 13:56
  photography. You're built for it. There's a level of stress
• 14:00
  and and craziness that just goes on, this frenetic energy that
• 14:06
  goes on with weddings, and you have to be this totem for your
• 14:08
  couples. I learned, oh, you know, and stuff that you I think
• 14:13
  there are milestones in wedding photography, as a photographer,
• 14:16
  like when you hit your first 100, I think that's when you
• 14:18
  really have an understanding of what all of this is like, who
• 14:23
  you are as a photographer, what your style is, that you've,
• 14:25
  pretty much can pick anything that's been thrown at you and
• 14:29
  respond to it. I had like in that first 100, I've had gear
• 14:32
  fail, I've I've brought the wrong gear. I've come with no
• 14:36
  memory cards. I went I made all those mistakes. And then your
• 14:41
  next 100 is really mastering the soft skills of client
• 14:46
  interaction, boundaries, like what you know, How available are
• 14:50
  you to your clients, post and pre wedding, when those hours of
• 14:54
  operations are I started getting better about like that my first
• 14:57
  100, I was terrible. I bore boundaries. I have. I had a
• 15:01
  former partner, my my my ex and her son were living with me. I
• 15:06
  that my wedding career was stepping all over my home life,
• 15:11
  and then, and then the next 100 was like trying to figure out
• 15:15
  better boundaries, better space for myself. I feel like I didn't
• 15:18
  have any good I didn't have hobbies. I was really 100%
• 15:22
  photography, and then, and then, since then, now, with, with,
• 15:26
  with my family. Now I have really good boundaries in place
• 15:29
  between, like, at this hour, I'm not picking up the computer, I'm
• 15:32
  turning things off, I'm making dinner, I'm playing with my
• 15:35
  kids, like I I've I'm glad I peaked at the moments I did,
• 15:39
  because it opened up made space for me to be a more present
• 15:43
  father when, when, you know, the time called upon me to step up
• 15:48
  in that way. So, yeah, I think it's hard. Weddings are,
• 15:52
  weddings are a lot, and they can consume your life. And I think
• 15:55
  everyone out there has had those moments of like, Oh, I gotta be
• 15:57
  up at, you know, 11 o'clock at night editing photos, or till
• 16:00
  two in the morning, whenever goes, you know, laptop in your
• 16:03
  lap. I've done I'm in that phase again right now because of my
• 16:06
  window of availability. But, yeah, it is a, it's a, it eats
• 16:10
  up a lot. And then that, then you're trying to figure out
• 16:13
  processes and how much pain point, you know, maybe it's time
• 16:16
  to employ some AI or an extra editor or an off site editor to
• 16:20
  work on your stuff and buy back time. You start looking at
• 16:24
  making sure that you're involved in the most important parts of
• 16:27
  the of the wedding process, and then maybe the things that are
• 16:29
  more menial you can hand off. So there's a lot of that,
• 16:32
  Casey Fatchett: yeah, finding, finding those processes, finding
• 16:34
  things you can automate. I found, I think the earliest
• 16:40
  thing that I found to automate, just in, this goes for any
• 16:43
  photographer, whatever you shoot, was getting a CRM, like,
• 16:47
  getting a client relationship management software in place so
• 16:52
  that I could, you know, like, automate, like, invoices, or,
• 16:57
  you know, here's, here's The contract, here's the, you know,
• 17:01
  just in like, instead of, like, filling out all this stuff.
• 17:05
  Every time I had a new inquiry or a new job, like, something
• 17:09
  that was going to get booked, whatever, I could just go in
• 17:11
  there and be like, send them this. This is the invoice. Like,
• 17:14
  attach this invoice, whatever, blah, blah. And, like,
• 17:17
  automating that process so that I, you know, I'm saving myself
• 17:21
  hundreds of hours a year, and I can use that in different areas
• 17:25
  of my business, instead of just going, instead of, like, running
• 17:31
  around trying to get it and then finding, like, things like aI
• 17:34
  culling. For me, it's like, it's my first run through of stuff,
• 17:38
  so that I can kind of get, get a look at it like, okay, yeah,
• 17:41
  these are the ones that definitely should go and then
• 17:43
  maybe taking a look back, depending on it, depends on what
• 17:46
  type of shoot it is, corporate event, totally different from a
• 17:49
  wedding. There's what, what do I want to keep? Do I want to keep
• 17:51
  this emotional photo that's not like, technically perfect versus
• 17:54
  whatever, but it like, gets me out of those like, Oh, these are
• 17:57
  portraits of people with their eyes closed, automatically
• 18:00
  getting like, that used to take me the longest time with
• 18:03
  weddings. I'm like, Oh, I've got, I took four or five shots
• 18:06
  of each grouping or whatever. And, like, which one does
• 18:09
  everybody have their eyes open? And, like, having, instead of
• 18:11
  having to go in and look at it and go, Oh, well, yeah, maybe
• 18:14
  there's 35 people in this shot. Like, who has their eyes closed?
• 18:20
  They can, like, cut that time out of there. You spend more
• 18:22
  time serving your clients, whatever type of photography
• 18:25
  you're doing. You mentioned making mistakes, like, you know,
• 18:29
  in the first 100 I'm curious, like, can you what's a what's a
• 18:35
  moment in your career that felt like at the time, it was a major
• 18:39
  mistake or a failure.
• 18:41
  Justin Haugen: I remember, this is probably my Canon 40 D days
• 18:45
  and and shooting in a dark church. And I always thought,
• 18:50
  like you just had to do off camera flash. So that's always
• 18:54
  been my thing. And I remember that's, this is like in the
• 18:57
  false alien bees. I probably had a couple alien v8 hundreds with
• 19:02
  some their lithium battery packs. Can Say you're, you know,
• 19:06
  connect, bringing a studio strobe connected to a battery
• 19:09
  pack on a couple light stands. And I was having misfires. I
• 19:13
  didn't have the right triggers. Things were just going bad. And
• 19:15
  I just remember, like a group of people, just a whole family
• 19:21
  portraits, everyone looking at me, waiting for feedback,
• 19:24
  wanting to know things were going, you know, like what they
• 19:26
  should be doing, and I'm fumbling with the lighting, and
• 19:30
  then I'm just struggling through this, and the results weren't
• 19:32
  looking great. I didn't know what I was doing with the lights
• 19:34
  in terms of placement and ratios and fill and key light. I just,
• 19:39
  you know, oh, put two lights on the sides and just blast them
• 19:41
  with light, that that'll be better than nothing, right? And,
• 19:44
  and I just, I think that that came to mind right now, and it's
• 19:47
  like a repressed memory, and now I realize it's a core, core
• 19:50
  memory of, like, what I was doing and, and that's a, yeah, I
• 19:55
  feel like that's a stumbling block where you realize, Oh, I
• 19:58
  gotta, I gotta be better. At this like there needs to be. And
• 20:01
  again, soft skills. I'm going to talk a lot about soft skills,
• 20:05
  because it is managing client expectation, their comfort,
• 20:09
  their energy, making them feel like, you know, you know, that
• 20:12
  you're their capable hands, and then, and then, on my end, I'm
• 20:15
  fumbling all of that. And so I think it's just when those
• 20:18
  things, you build up confidence, with the gear, with the process,
• 20:20
  with the people, the people skills, and then, and then, now,
• 20:23
  you know, if I do the same, if I have the same scenario, now I'm
• 20:27
  in control of everything, and that's just something that he
• 20:30
  doesn't come without experience. And you know, going through the
• 20:34
  lumps of doing it, and I used to get social anxiety from being in
• 20:39
  public spaces, just crazy because I'm I'm such an
• 20:42
  extrovert. I love meeting new people, but I remember feeling
• 20:45
  so uncomfortable, anxious, my stomach would hurt. I didn't
• 20:47
  like I wasn't in the public speaking and all and weddings
• 20:51
  triggered all of that. And I think exposure therapy is really
• 20:55
  the best. Therapy is to continue to put yourself in those
• 20:58
  positions over and over again until you realize, like, you
• 21:00
  have to get through this. And now I can. I used to get anxious
• 21:05
  from cocktail hour, especially corporate events, is
• 21:08
  interrupting people politely to get a group picture while
• 21:12
  they're, you know, stuff in their faces and having a drink.
• 21:15
  Now I could, couldn't be less anxious about that, like I, I
• 21:21
  walk up confidently, you know, insert myself, get in, get out,
• 21:25
  and they, you know, get their pictures, and we're done. And
• 21:27
  those kind of things are just exposure. You have to keep doing
• 21:30
  it.
• 21:30
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I mean, I'm the same way. I'm tend to be
• 21:33
  a little bit of an introvert. So it's like, going up. I don't
• 21:36
  have quite a problem with at weddings, but like, corporate
• 21:39
  events, like you said, like people are sitting around
• 21:41
  talking. This is not like a, you know, necessarily, like a
• 21:45
  celebration gathering or whatever, like you and people
• 21:49
  might be literally just getting to know each other for the first
• 21:52
  time or whatever, and you're like, walking up going, like,
• 21:54
  Hey, can I get a photo? And the you can get a really, like, I
• 21:58
  had to overcome a lot of fear there, as far as, like, walking
• 22:02
  up to people, but now same thing, it's a you do it enough
• 22:05
  times, and you learn the kind of like, coping mechanism in your
• 22:09
  mind, which is like, they know you're just doing a job. They
• 22:12
  understand that you're doing your job and just being like,
• 22:15
  nice about it. Just be like, Hey guys, do you mind? And if you
• 22:18
  don't, if you do mind, no problem, yeah, like that sort of
• 22:21
  thing. But it's the, I don't know the you were talking about,
• 22:26
  like having that experience with the lights not working, whatever
• 22:31
  this is like. I always try to tell people that you know you
• 22:35
  have to learn, take the time to practice and learn and
• 22:39
  understand your gear and all those things so that you can
• 22:42
  again, serve your client better. But it's also because people
• 22:47
  don't want to sit around and watch you figure things out. And
• 22:52
  especially when it comes to corporate stuff, weddings, I
• 22:55
  think there's a little bit more forgiveness, maybe. But like
• 22:58
  corporate stuff, it's like, this is like, we're not here to like,
• 23:01
  we're spending a lot of money with you. Of money with you, and
• 23:03
  you might not get a lot of time with certain people, you know,
• 23:07
  similar to weddings, but they like, if the VIP is coming in,
• 23:09
  if you're getting, like, the CEO of the company, you have two
• 23:13
  minutes with them total, and you've got to get a portrait of
• 23:16
  them or something. And you're like, and you're sitting there
• 23:18
  fumbling with your lights, they're going, like, well, you
• 23:20
  know, we don't have time. We're going to be completely off
• 23:22
  schedule because they don't have time with you. And it's, it's
• 23:27
  something about, somebody posted a video about this recently that
• 23:31
  I saw, which was with when it comes to, like, VIP clients or
• 23:37
  people who are coming in, you know, like, you have to have
• 23:40
  that all set up. You've tested you've tested it all out. You
• 23:43
  know, the you know your settings are right. But why don't you do
• 23:46
  that for all your clients, instead of just like the VIPs,
• 23:49
  if you have somebody coming in for portraits, you got to make
• 23:52
  sure that you've tested out all that lighting. Or if you're,
• 23:54
  like, showing up to a wedding like this, what I used to spend,
• 23:57
  like, part of the cocktail hour was like, setting up my OCF for,
• 24:00
  you know, off camera flash for for, you know, the reception,
• 24:03
  like making sure it's all set up. And like, having my
• 24:05
  assistant, or having some cater waiter like, Hey, can you just
• 24:10
  stand here so I can check how this lighting is going to look,
• 24:12
  and so that when everything starts happening and you're
• 24:15
  ready to go,
• 24:18
  Justin Haugen: yeah, weddings are the job the day the job,
• 24:21
  it's not the day to be workshopping new concepts. And
• 24:25
  definitely I realized, like, through practice, it's better to
• 24:29
  it's I work better when I have tested myself in those in those
• 24:33
  situations or lighting situations beforehand. So I
• 24:36
  tried now to be better about like, if I'm going to be trying
• 24:39
  something new or different that I maybe do a spec shoot or
• 24:43
  style, you know, there has to be practice. There needs to be more
• 24:46
  practice. And you know, or or that when you're on a shoot
• 24:49
  that's low pressure, that maybe that's the time you try out a
• 24:52
  new lighting recipe, and not not you know, you've got all your
• 24:56
  shot, your your meat and potatoes, and the client should
• 24:59
  be happy. Be with what you've done, then maybe there's some
• 25:01
  time for trial at the end of all that. Yeah? So I always try to
• 25:05
  find room to play when there's possible, when there's time for
• 25:07
  push a little bit more, yeah?
• 25:10
  Casey Fatchett: When you have, like, a little extra time,
• 25:12
  you're like, oh, you know, we did. Got this out of the way,
• 25:15
  you know, I know we've got our safe, safety shots or whatever.
• 25:18
  Like, you know, we're good. You'll be happy with this. But
• 25:20
  let's spend five minutes doing something else you so you've
• 25:25
  your turn from weddings and into more focusing on corporate stuff
• 25:32
  is, I mean, fairly recent. It's in the last five years. What do
• 25:37
  you think was the moment that you saw, like, Okay, I've got to
• 25:41
  turn the corner. I've got to rebrand. Because it really is
• 25:45
  like, you're, you're going from something that's very specific
• 25:49
  to to another thing that, whereas events are kind of
• 25:53
  related, you know, it is a, it is a turning point, like people,
• 25:56
  some people don't, I think, don't realize that you have to
• 26:02
  put yourself out there in a different way. When you have a
• 26:07
  whole different clientele, it really is rebranding yourself
• 26:10
  like AMA. I'm focusing on something entirely different
• 26:15
  than what I was doing before,
• 26:17
  Justin Haugen: and I think I had an eye on it for like, I've been
• 26:21
  talking about it for well over a year. Rob and I, Rob Hall,
• 26:26
  you've had has his episode ran already?
• 26:28
  Casey Fatchett: Oh yeah, Rob's been. It was a while ago. Rob
• 26:30
  was,
• 26:32
  Justin Haugen: I'll have to give his a listen. We have Rob. Rob
• 26:35
  and I had been talking about it, especially on our podcast. We
• 26:39
  were talking about transitioning, and now it's
• 26:41
  funny, we're both away from weddings, pretty much entirely
• 26:45
  and completely immersed in more corporate marketing minded type
• 26:48
  work, and just we hadn't. I had an eye out for it for a while.
• 26:52
  I've been talking about it, and then I started to I realized I
• 26:56
  wasn't booking Gen Z weddings, and that was starting to bother
• 26:59
  me. I'm like, why am I missing this target, this audience is
• 27:03
  like, the emerging wedding class is coming up, and I'm still
• 27:07
  booking right tightly within like, a five year range of my
• 27:10
  age, like I'm 42 now, and I'm like, that wedding markets not
• 27:13
  going to be as prevalent as Gen Z at some point. I know where
• 27:17
  everyone's getting married later, but that's the next
• 27:20
  wedding, emerging wedding scene. So I didn't feel like I was
• 27:24
  doing anything that resonated with Gen Z. I feel that I see
• 27:27
  wedding trends now. I see and I have friends who are very
• 27:31
  successful in wedding still, and they, you know, they're gonna
• 27:34
  book regardless. Maybe I didn't have it in me to to do that
• 27:38
  work. And I feel like, I don't, I'd always had corporate work,
• 27:41
  corporate events, that stuff was on my, you know, in my work
• 27:45
  workflow throughout the year, like I was booking those kind of
• 27:49
  things. So when I, when I started to get, when I got the
• 27:52
  contract work with my former employer, I that's when I was
• 27:55
  like, okay, they're, they're driving the majority of my
• 27:58
  business. I can start to pull back from wedding. So there was
• 28:02
  a bit of a transition there. Transition there and then, when
• 28:06
  I locked in my other big my bigger client, they they kept me
• 28:09
  thoroughly busy, and I realized I wouldn't have any room for
• 28:13
  weddings. So I 2022 I was like, This is it. So I every wedding
• 28:16
  booking that started coming in on 2022 every inquiry, I was
• 28:20
  able to refer it out and feel myself kind of drift away from
• 28:23
  it. So it was, like a turning point, so much as, like, a slow
• 28:27
  transition out of it.
• 28:28
  Casey Fatchett: Were you afraid, though? I mean, because, like
• 28:30
  that, I'm just curious. Like, you get those clients. I've had
• 28:33
  that moment where I get a new client and I'm like, Oh, this is
• 28:35
  great. This is gonna this is what this fills up in my
• 28:39
  schedule, whatever the but were you afraid of making that turn?
• 28:45
  Was it like a scary moment for you to be like, Okay, well, this
• 28:49
  thing that I've been doing that I've been successful at, I'm
• 28:52
  kind of drifting away from that.
• 28:54
  Justin Haugen: The work became so lucrative very quickly that I
• 28:58
  was able to start making different financial planning
• 29:00
  decisions from for my family and I and afford the expenses to,
• 29:05
  like, make room for all this, like we had a full time nanny.
• 29:09
  You know, everything was, everything was in place because
• 29:11
  of the work and frequency of the work. So it there was no fear
• 29:14
  there. I do have a bit of a cautionary tale leading up to
• 29:19
  this year, because I saw, I identified, like, the majority,
• 29:23
  like 90% of my business was coming from two clients, and I
• 29:27
  knew that was gonna be a problem, like, I have to
• 29:28
  diversify, and now I'm pretty much not doing any work with the
• 29:34
  second company that was my biggest account for two years,
• 29:36
  and so, and I knew that was gonna be a possibility, they
• 29:39
  lost their marketing director, who I was very close with, and
• 29:42
  new people come in, and new people usually bring in new
• 29:44
  people, or they, they, you know, the relationship change. And I
• 29:48
  know I keep being I'm being told that I'm going to be involved as
• 29:52
  a new phase of their business is about to occur. But right now,
• 29:56
  there's not nothing that I can count on from them. So I. I'm in
• 30:00
  a phase now of I've been my dad era ever since my son was born.
• 30:06
  My wife was on maternity leave for the first half of the year.
• 30:10
  She returned to work last month. I'm in a space now where I spend
• 30:13
  more time with my kids, Monday, Wednesday, Fridays. It's my
• 30:16
  daughter was going to camp. I was with my son all day, and
• 30:20
  then my daughter just started. Today was her first day of
• 30:22
  school, so we dropped her off at preschool and and, and now,
• 30:26
  after this, I'll be with my son. So I I'm in a new phase now
• 30:30
  where my daughter's going to be going to school Monday through
• 30:32
  Friday. I'll be with our son more. I'm actually trying to
• 30:36
  figure out, like, what is this going to look like with with my
• 30:40
  son? Because now I've got a day, a day to fill your days to fill
• 30:43
  with with a six month old, and I'm trying to figure out, like,
• 30:47
  maybe there's some kind of magnum opus in here where I can
• 30:50
  do something with my son still be involved in photography, and
• 30:54
  maybe there is, like, a the photographer dad, kind of like
• 30:57
  angle where I can maybe this is something I can share this story
• 31:01
  with or share this process or the work that I'm doing with my
• 31:04
  son being involved in my life so heavily so I'm in this different
• 31:08
  space now where I now always knew this about for myself, that
• 31:13
  the way my work was structured, and the way I wanted to be
• 31:15
  working someday was to be a business owner, to have more
• 31:19
  flexibility and The way I spend time, and that I could be a more
• 31:24
  present father. And so I think right now my biggest joy is that
• 31:28
  I get to be this swiss army knife in our family, in our
• 31:32
  home. My wife has the nine to five corporate job, and it
• 31:36
  affords us a lot of like health care and things, important
• 31:40
  things. It covers a lot of that stuff. And right now, I'm
• 31:43
  basically running my business one handed, like, I, I, you
• 31:46
  know, I do stuff on my phone. I try to get whatever time on the
• 31:50
  computer when my kids go to sleep. And I'm I'm actually not
• 31:54
  having a terrible year, another any other year. This could be a
• 31:57
  high watermark year for me, but because the last two years set a
• 32:00
  level of expectation a lot higher. I'm just, I'm struggling
• 32:04
  with the drop off in in frequency at work, and, yeah,
• 32:09
  it's just, I'm in a different space right now. It's and I'm
• 32:12
  leaning into the being, being available to my family. I'm
• 32:17
  happy about that. And now I'm trying to think, like, what's
• 32:20
  this next phase I'm transitioning now into maybe
• 32:23
  setting up the next chapter of work, and I want to really set
• 32:26
  up for a bigger year in 2026
• 32:29
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, so balancing, and this is something
• 32:32
  we you talked about earlier, but work life balance, like in
• 32:36
  setting boundaries and figuring all of that stuff out, is
• 32:38
  Something that I had a terrible time doing. When you mentioned
• 32:42
  earlier, I got to be up at 11 o'clock. I was up until like two
• 32:45
  o'clock sometimes, like editing those things. And then you
• 32:47
  realize, you go, this is a unhealthy for me, and B there,
• 32:54
  there are things other than work in your life, and you want to
• 32:58
  take some time, and you want to enjoy those moments while you
• 33:02
  can, especially if you got a, you know, you've got a newborn
• 33:05
  pretty it's like, you know, I want you want to spend some time
• 33:09
  experiencing that, instead of, like, just working all the time,
• 33:14
  and enjoy those moments. Because, as we know, as
• 33:17
  photographers like this, moments are fleeting, and we're really
• 33:20
  the use, it's the you, you want to be able to look back on that
• 33:26
  and be like, I was present for that time in my life, and not,
• 33:31
  oh, I was really not there. I was I was working and, yeah,
• 33:37
  it's like, it's, I do not have children. But I think that one
• 33:41
  of the things that really stuck out to me was that, you know, in
• 33:47
  even just my family and friend group, how not present I was
• 33:54
  during, like, whole portions of the year, because I just look
• 33:57
  wasn't available or wasn't around, I was kind of just like
• 34:00
  working myself all the time and not prioritizing my I don't want
• 34:09
  to say real life, but like my non work life and finding those
• 34:16
  types of balances in yourself. And as you mentioned earlier,
• 34:21
  setting the boundary, setting good boundaries, because there
• 34:24
  was, there was a time when I worked for another studio for a
• 34:27
  little while, like helping them out with just managing the stair
• 34:30
  studio. And I got a call from one of their clients at like
• 34:35
  1130 at night, and for some reason, I answered it, and I
• 34:39
  think that was the moment that I just said, like, wow, I really
• 34:42
  have to not do that, because it was just like the mother of a
• 34:47
  bride who was like, wanted something changes made to, like
• 34:50
  a an album design or something. And I'm like, It's 11/31 I was
• 34:55
  like, Why are you calling me at 1130 in on my. Cell phone, which
• 35:01
  I don't, not entirely sure how you got the number, because, but
• 35:06
  you know, why are we having this conversation? And I said, like,
• 35:08
  happy to discuss this tomorrow during regular business hours.
• 35:12
  And she said, Well, why can't we talk about it now? And I'm,
• 35:14
  like, because I'm going to bed. That's why this is not the I'm
• 35:17
  not in front of your stuff. It's a lot to ask and like, and then
• 35:22
  I said, you know, like, you know what part of this is my fault? I
• 35:26
  answered, but in the future, I need to, and I that's when I
• 35:31
  really turned the corner as far as, like, saying to clients,
• 35:34
  this is when I'm available to you. You can call me, like, if
• 35:39
  it's for wedding clients, if it's the week of your wedding,
• 35:42
  there's no, like, if something's happening and you really feel
• 35:45
  like it's an emergency and we need to talk about it, I will
• 35:48
  pick up the phone or answer you like you're gonna have to text
• 35:53
  or call me because I'm not necessarily, like, checking my
• 35:55
  emails, you know, at off hours, but everybody else. Like,
• 36:01
  there's this, there's a time cut off, you know, at night, like, I
• 36:04
  want to spend time with my wife, and when we have dinner
• 36:07
  together, we're gonna, like, this is our time to connect and
• 36:10
  be with each other outside of work. So kind of going back to
• 36:17
  the to the rebrand, what were the the elements that you
• 36:25
  changed, as far as like, you know, client facing, material
• 36:31
  like it? Was it visual? Was it like your philosophy about the
• 36:36
  work, the approach to the work? What were you like? How did you
• 36:40
  change the presentation of your business,
• 36:45
  Justin Haugen: and I'm still it's still a work in progress
• 36:47
  right now. I got a new website launched as of late last year.
• 36:53
  That was a rebrand where I wiped all my wedding work off the
• 36:56
  site. Finally got up new work that I've been doing with
• 36:59
  clients which, which is rough too, because I've got my two
• 37:02
  biggest works, which are two biggest clients, which represent
• 37:06
  five and two years of my of my work, are the biggest holes in
• 37:11
  my portfolio, because I have NDA signed with both clients, and I
• 37:14
  can't, I can't share any of the work. It to share the work on my
• 37:18
  website represents an endorsement of a third party
• 37:21
  vendor, and they don't do that. So that's the only downside to
• 37:26
  the work that I've done with those two clients, which would
• 37:29
  be, which really opens up a big part of my portfolio, if I could
• 37:32
  share it, because it's, it's very Some of it's very niche
• 37:35
  work. Some of it's very technical. There's time lapse
• 37:38
  work, there's drone work, there's, you know, I did a, you
• 37:41
  know, I did a one year manufacturing build time lapse
• 37:44
  with three cameras, like, I can't even show that work. So
• 37:47
  there's stuff that I'm very proud of. I did some of the best
• 37:50
  work in my career, and I can't even show it. So that sub,
• 37:53
  bummer, but, but, yeah, the rebrand was the website, and
• 37:56
  that's still, that's still calling to me right now, I need
• 37:59
  to spend more time with it and add work that I've done
• 38:03
  recently, fine tune the messaging, show more of the
• 38:07
  niche stuff that's that's one thing that I want to tend to
• 38:10
  more. But as it stands, I think it's a good representation of my
• 38:13
  ability, the quality of the work and the messaging is more
• 38:19
  business oriented. I talk about, you know, the different
• 38:22
  technical things that I can do the I think the things that the
• 38:25
  strengths I have are my communication ability, managing
• 38:29
  client expectation, like all that stuff is very voiced pretty
• 38:32
  well on my site. Then my my Facebook or my Instagram. Was a
• 38:37
  big rebrand. I archived all the wedding work. So all the wedding
• 38:40
  work is gone, and I left only work that's more relevant to
• 38:45
  brands, influencers, companies, marketing, type based work, and
• 38:51
  then personal work. So that's now what's showing on my
• 38:53
  Instagram that I mean, I could probably do an audit and get
• 38:56
  more focused with that. My goal is to post more regularly on
• 39:00
  there and then LinkedIn. I'm trying to be more regular on
• 39:03
  LinkedIn and share more of my my work life on there, because I
• 39:07
  think that's that's a better space. That's the best space for
• 39:10
  what I'm doing.
• 39:11
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I've really, like transferred a lot
• 39:14
  of the energy to LinkedIn for, like, the corporate and business
• 39:19
  stuff, because, you know, that's where they're looking for people
• 39:23
  is not or they're interacting. They're not on Instagram looking
• 39:28
  for a photographer for their business. Yeah, because in the
• 39:33
  like, one of my best friends, we've known each other for
• 39:38
  almost 30 years, and he went from doing weddings and
• 39:41
  portraits to like, being a full time corporate photographer in
• 39:45
  this kind of a similar way, like he realized he was having a
• 39:50
  child. They found out, and he was like, You know what? I need
• 39:53
  to be more stability here, as he refers to it. He's like, I
• 39:58
  shamelessly followed the money. Uh, to corporate stuff, and he's
• 40:01
  like, most of the time, nobody sees the work that I do. It's
• 40:06
  not that, it's just not like, posted, you know, I can't post
• 40:10
  it on Instagram, or I can't put it in my portfolio, like the
• 40:12
  client doesn't even make it public. It is solely an internal
• 40:17
  thing. So that's one of those things that you know, for
• 40:19
  rebranding became a really difficult like thing to do
• 40:26
  because, like, you're not, you said you're not able to put that
• 40:30
  section of your portfolio out into the world and help it, you
• 40:34
  know, reap the rewards of, you know, of that work and putting
• 40:38
  it out there as people like getting get some attention, and
• 40:41
  have more people come to you. It's, it can be a very, I don't
• 40:46
  know, harrowing thing, like, I know that in my own I keep my
• 40:51
  wedding and my corporate brand separate, and that's, uh, there
• 40:59
  was time when I had been doing, like, similarly, I had been
• 41:02
  doing, like, corporate stuff throughout my career, just
• 41:05
  wasn't the focus of things. And then, like, when it became like,
• 41:09
  oh, you know, need to diversify, because 2020 came around, and
• 41:13
  all the weddings just went like, we're gone. And I'm like, You
• 41:16
  know what I got? I managed during that year to get a few
• 41:19
  corporate gigs, and I was like, okay, you know what? I need to
• 41:22
  put more focus into this. But it was that fear of, like, ah, you
• 41:26
  know, I don't have the greatest new stuff available here. It's
• 41:30
  like, I've got some old things, but like, my lighting, like
• 41:34
  those things, like not feeling necessarily confident enough
• 41:37
  about it, like, Oh, I've got some stuff where, you know, my
• 41:40
  business headshots were not the best lit, like, for where I was
• 41:46
  at the moment now I'm like, it's, it's the the working
• 41:49
  towards like, okay, and I've got to build up this portfolio. And
• 41:52
  that part felt very frightening. And sense of like, okay, I'm
• 41:55
  putting myself out there in this realm, whereas I felt confident
• 42:02
  in, you know, other forms of portraiture, and that I couldn't
• 42:06
  do it work wise. But like, you know, this is what I've got in
• 42:08
  my, you know, in my book of work, wasn't I felt up to my
• 42:16
  abilities at that time when I was, like, trying to add more of
• 42:19
  it, that can be like, a real stumbling block for people. Is,
• 42:22
  like, feeling like, how would you approach that feeling now
• 42:26
  that you, like you said, you've got these two huge clients who
• 42:29
  you're not able to use that work. How do you then go into
• 42:34
  your portfolio and be like, Okay, I'm gonna what am I gonna
• 42:36
  focus on here?
• 42:38
  Justin Haugen: I've done spec shoots where I could fill in
• 42:41
  gaps in my work. So, like, I feel like my strongest skill is
• 42:46
  marketing and Company. Like public facing type images that
• 42:52
  are more environmental. Like, I love photographing people at
• 42:56
  work, or portraits in their place of work, rest or play,
• 43:00
  like, that's my favorite type of portraiture. Like, if I could
• 43:03
  just shoot creative, environmental portraits of
• 43:06
  people all the time, that's all I would do. Just, yeah, oh, you
• 43:08
  work in a cool place. Like, yeah, bring me there. Let's,
• 43:10
  let's do some portraits. That's my, my strongest suit. And then
• 43:14
  so I did, I've done spec work where, like, all you know, I had
• 43:18
  access to co op office space. And I had and I had some friends
• 43:22
  come through in business attire. And we spent a day, you know,
• 43:25
  setting up, testing new lighting setups. I tried gear that I
• 43:28
  wouldn't normally use. I was trying to really polish the work
• 43:33
  and use it as an example of, like, what I could do, like me,
• 43:36
  and maybe this is C suite portraits for, you know, fortune
• 43:39
  500 company kind of stuff so that that's where, you know,
• 43:43
  I'll spec shoot it. But right now, my time is limited. I don't
• 43:47
  even know if I could put a spec sheet together in the next
• 43:49
  month, if I if I wanted to. But because it requires a full I did
• 43:54
  it like I would load out. I almost even hired my assistant
• 43:57
  you normally work with to come help me. But I did it all
• 43:59
  myself. Lugged all the gear, gear around, loaded the car up.
• 44:02
  Yeah and yeah it I've even, I've thrown money at money at spec
• 44:08
  sheets where I had the red gear so like that. I can fill gaps my
• 44:12
  portfolio by by creating the work, creating the ideal client
• 44:18
  and the circumstances for what I wanted to shoot. You know, I'm
• 44:20
  just and I'm not, I'm not shy about trying to get what I want.
• 44:26
  So like, if I if I needed location, like, yeah, I just
• 44:28
  need to make a phone call. I need to talk to people. And you
• 44:30
  just never know where you where you can find yourself, unless
• 44:35
  you put yourself in those situations and ask and try to
• 44:39
  see what you can do with a camera. I find a camera as a
• 44:41
  passport to experiences and locations that I never had
• 44:44
  access to before. It's always been that way for me with
• 44:46
  photography. So, you know, have a camera. Have a camera will
• 44:49
  travel definitely get you in some places you didn't expect
• 44:53
  yourself.
• 44:55
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's the you know, like, what a What's
• 44:57
  the worst they're gonna say, No. Like. You know, just
• 45:00
  understanding that that's, you know, the worst that can happen,
• 45:03
  like asking is not a is not an issue. So another taking this a
• 45:14
  little further, like for photographers who are feeling
• 45:19
  like stuck or afraid to pivot into a different direction. What
• 45:26
  advice would you have about like, kind of starting over or
• 45:30
  redefining your business?
• 45:34
  Justin Haugen: I think a clear path forward, like, I think you
• 45:37
  need to define what success looks for like for you, need a I
• 45:41
  need a one year plan, a five year plan, maybe financial
• 45:46
  targets. Maybe it's like, right now I'm I'm going through a
• 45:51
  maybe it's because I'm going through fatherhood, and there's
• 45:58
  a lot of stuff happening politically, even not just on a
• 46:01
  national level, but on a local level. And then I'm seeing
• 46:05
  things through the lens of fatherhood, having a family, and
• 46:09
  the issues that matter to me as a parent, and finding spaces for
• 46:15
  my family that that are wholesome and that bring value
• 46:20
  to my kids lives like there's like a huge Venn Diagram of of
• 46:24
  all these things that are starting to intersect, and I'm
• 46:27
  like the intersection of all those things, and I'm trying to
• 46:32
  figure out, what does my client list look like in the future. Am
• 46:36
  I happy with the clients I'm working with? Do they represent
• 46:39
  my values? Do they represent all those values? Do I feel proud
• 46:43
  like I admittedly, there's work I've done for clients I have
• 46:47
  where I don't feel I'm aligned with their mission and I and in
• 46:52
  certain spaces, I may not mention that client and my
• 46:54
  client list, because I don't think it represents who I am. It
• 46:58
  doesn't represent my values. So all this is happening inside of
• 47:03
  me right now, and it's given me a lot to think about on my
• 47:08
  vision board about in five years, who are the kinds of
• 47:11
  clients that I'm working with? What kind of maybe it's
• 47:15
  philanthropy. Maybe it's like, I'm really interested in the
• 47:17
  idea of joining boards that are part of organizations that help
• 47:23
  families and children, especially locally, locally, of
• 47:27
  course, and and I'm trying to see, like, what is that? Where
• 47:31
  is this Venn diagram now occurring? Of all these things
• 47:34
  meeting in one in one space for me, like, can I work with the
• 47:38
  clients who I'm excited to work with. Can they represent my
• 47:42
  values? Can they help me further my my growing mission to like
• 47:46
  benefit families and community in my community. So sorry I've
• 47:50
  deviated from where this started, but, but I think people
• 47:54
  need to sit long and hard, think hard about what their values
• 48:00
  are, what their goals are, what does success look like, and what
• 48:05
  is the viability of commerce and income that can come from it,
• 48:10
  and can you brand yourself and aim your business in that
• 48:15
  trajectory? And that's where I'm at right now. I'm having a hard
• 48:19
  time with capitalism right now. So here I'll give you a good
• 48:23
  example of, like, values that are kind of bothering me, that
• 48:26
  are that are at forefront of my mind. Like we just had, like, a
• 48:29
  huge Amazon was gonna, Amazon was trying to build a data
• 48:33
  center here in Tucson, and it was gonna, we live in the
• 48:36
  desert, we have, we're always experiencing a drought, and they
• 48:39
  were gonna have access to potable water, drinkable water,
• 48:43
  until a pipeline, 18 mile pipeline, was going to be
• 48:46
  connecting them to a non potable water source, they're going to
• 48:49
  be using like 10% of our day City's daily water usage to cool
• 48:53
  this data center for AI and and our local government went
• 48:58
  through a lot of lengths to Make sure they had all the most
• 49:02
  important information from the public. And then through some
• 49:06
  council, city council meetings, the people showed up in force to
• 49:11
  talk it down and and now it just got voted out of and after the
• 49:15
  land had already been approved for annexed, for sale from our
• 49:18
  from our our county supervisor. So there was a lot going on
• 49:22
  locally. There was, I wondered to myself, like, oh, like, Could
• 49:28
  I see myself doing a time lapse photo project for a client like
• 49:32
  that when I'm like, diametrically opposed to it,
• 49:35
  right? So those kind of questions come up in my work and
• 49:37
  in my life. Like, I'm like, Man, if I had an opportunity to do
• 49:41
  that work, like, that's a high profile client of the highest
• 49:44
  caliber in the realm of, like, commerce, that I want to be,
• 49:47
  like, making money off of, but it's completely opposed to my
• 49:51
  values. Like, I yeah, that bothered me so much. It's been a
• 49:54
  big thing in our household. A lot of our conversations have
• 49:56
  been around it and now, but yeah, so that's. Example of who
• 50:02
  I am as a person. Could it conflict with who I am as a
• 50:05
  businessman? Can both those things exist in the same Venn
• 50:10
  diagram? I think
• 50:10
  Casey Fatchett: that kind of brings up my next question,
• 50:12
  which is like, how has the definition of success changed
• 50:16
  for you? Like, is it about like, balancing those like you're
• 50:21
  saying, balancing the the financial with who you are as a
• 50:26
  person, whether that's your being a parent, being, you know,
• 50:31
  a partner to someone, just your places, a citizen of the world,
• 50:35
  like you know, is that? Like, how has that changed over over
• 50:40
  these reinventions of the business
• 50:44
  Justin Haugen: right now, my idea of success in this current
• 50:47
  moment is survival. It's it's that my needs are met, my my
• 50:52
  family needs are met, that we're all fed, we're all closed and
• 50:56
  housed, that that's like my biggest goal right now, those
• 51:00
  needs are being met, if I could. And then also that, you know, my
• 51:08
  business is still sustained, however, like success for me
• 51:10
  moving forward, it's it is a target. It is a I have ideas
• 51:15
  that my business could be, you know, making five times more
• 51:18
  than what it is now. And it doesn't necessarily hinge on me
• 51:21
  being the key point of labor in all of this, that that maybe,
• 51:24
  you know, I like the idea, that maybe I can run a more of a
• 51:28
  agency minded type of business, where I can lean into other
• 51:33
  people's talents and skills and availability, and that we could
• 51:37
  build something that serves a client base in town, while also
• 51:42
  aligning with who, you know, with our values, with the
• 51:45
  clientele that we work with. And I've seen other people do that.
• 51:49
  I've seen other businesses do that too. There's an agency in
• 51:52
  town here where they're completely aligned with their
• 51:54
  political spectrum, with their client base, and it's, it's,
• 51:58
  it's inspiring to see that. And so I guess I have this delusion
• 52:04
  in my mind that capitalism and and philanthropy and and family
• 52:13
  can all coexist. That's probably, I'm probably like I
• 52:17
  said,
• 52:19
  Casey Fatchett: that it's delusional. I think that there's
• 52:20
  also a sense of like you have to strike that balance in way that
• 52:26
  you're comfortable with, and in understanding where like those
• 52:29
  lines are truly drawn, and knowing like, because there have
• 52:34
  been times when I've got same thing, oh, here's a lucrative
• 52:39
  job opportunity, but I've said no, because I'm like, Man, I
• 52:43
  couldn't live with myself for promoting this, and I will. I
• 52:49
  they just can't, can't do it. And just said, like, I'm not the
• 52:53
  right photographer for you. But there's that that that's in the
• 52:58
  back of the head, there's the you know, young photographer in
• 53:02
  me, who's like, You got to get take every job that you get
• 53:05
  offered. And there's, but you know what? Like there? There
• 53:08
  comes time when, you know, sometimes I've had very famous
• 53:14
  portrait clients who turned out to be awful people, which I
• 53:19
  found out about later and in the news, and you're like, Okay,
• 53:23
  taking that person out of the portfolio and never speaking of
• 53:27
  them again. That's, yeah, even though that was a, you know, may
• 53:32
  have been a lucrative job, there's also like, you know, now
• 53:36
  it's, there are times when it comes up and it's like, I
• 53:38
  already know that they're not the person I want to be working
• 53:43
  with. So yeah, it's making that decision and knowing what you
• 53:46
  can you feel comfortable with where, where that puts you.
• 53:54
  Sometimes you get into some gray areas. Sometimes it's not gray
• 53:57
  at all. Sometimes it's totally black and white. So it's a wrap
• 54:04
  up question. Looking back, do you feel that like the word
• 54:10
  failure, mistakes or whatever challenges you faced have given
• 54:15
  you some clarity as far as like, changing the direction that you
• 54:22
  wanted to go and how you want to present yourself to the world.
• 54:29
  Justin Haugen: Sorry, can you rephrase the beginning part?
• 54:32
  Casey Fatchett: Do you feel that like, I don't know challenges
• 54:36
  mistakes, I don't know necessarily mistakes, but like
• 54:38
  situations that you've been in, like where things didn't go the
• 54:41
  way that you expected them to go again, I think challenge is
• 54:45
  probably a better word has helped shape and clarify the way
• 54:53
  that you've decided to present yourself in, like going in a
• 54:56
  different direction and rebranding.
• 54:59
  Justin Haugen: Yeah. I mean, I think. Like everything I touched
• 55:01
  on previously is, is, is like a build up to where I'm at now.
• 55:07
  And it's just like it's still a work in progress. I'm having all
• 55:11
  these conversations with myself, with my with my wife, with close
• 55:14
  friends, about about, like, what Mark I'm want to leave on
• 55:18
  photography, which in a in a world with so much noise right
• 55:23
  now social media being the number one culprit, but there's
• 55:27
  just so much noise right now to be seen as a photographer, just
• 55:32
  based off the merit of your quality of your images, it's
• 55:36
  just it feels a little hollow to me, and I want to do something
• 55:41
  like right now, no, like, there was a phase in my career where
• 55:46
  my work was being recognized in my peer group, in like, amongst
• 55:50
  our social media, like, for an esthetic, which was probably
• 55:54
  riding the wave of other of like, people I was inspired by.
• 55:58
  And then now I don't really feel like I'm bringing anything
• 56:01
  interesting to the table in terms of what my work looks
• 56:05
  like, as far as the quality or esthetic of it, that it gives us
• 56:08
  too much, especially if you consider like off camera flash
• 56:12
  being an esthetic. It was 10 years ago that was it was cost
• 56:16
  prohibitive. It was a harder space to enter because there was
• 56:19
  a learning curve, and there was less information on it as a
• 56:23
  whole. And now, in 2025, there's, I see such a deluge of,
• 56:30
  like, deluge of work out there, of just everybody. You get one
• 56:35
  big softbox and a light, and you can, you know, there's just an
• 56:38
  esthetic that's happening now where it used to be naturally
• 56:42
  lit work despite light and airy. Thing was popular because it was
• 56:45
  a, I think it was a gear restriction. It was people who
• 56:48
  didn't know lighting.
• 56:50
  Casey Fatchett: I think both, especially, both dark and moody
• 56:52
  and light and airy were both responses to people's like
• 56:56
  inabilities to like, exposed properly,
• 57:01
  Justin Haugen: yeah, to take that leap, and then now and then
• 57:04
  now, blast photography is everywhere, and the work is it
• 57:07
  doesn't stand out to me. So what I'm doing isn't really
• 57:10
  interesting and doesn't bring anything to that conversation.
• 57:14
  So I'm not, I'm not doing anything technically or skill
• 57:17
  wise, that really invites that conversation. Like, I feel like
• 57:20
  I know a few people who do like Jason Vinson. If you ever, I
• 57:23
  don't know if you've had him on
• 57:25
  Casey Fatchett: the show, yeah, not yet. I want to like, that's
• 57:28
  been a, that's been a someone I've been messaging. It's
• 57:32
  sometimes it takes a while to get people's Yeah,
• 57:35
  Justin Haugen: holler, maybe everyone, come on, but Jason,
• 57:37
  Jason's a, he's a wizard like that guy can light his way out
• 57:41
  of an empty room with, you know, a couple, you know, some gels
• 57:45
  and a couple, and a speed and a flashlight. Like, he has
• 57:47
  Casey Fatchett: an incredible vision, like, in like, quickly,
• 57:50
  like, I can go, if I'm able to sit somewhere, I could probably
• 57:53
  go, like, Oh yeah, you know, I do this. But he just has, like,
• 57:55
  I don't know, like, there's, there's something, you're,
• 57:57
  right? He just, like, walks in and goes, oh this, yeah,
• 58:01
  Justin Haugen: he's got a third eye for it. And I love his
• 58:03
  ability to do that, do that. So, like, I just feel like, I don't,
• 58:07
  I don't bring that to the conversation. So now it's like,
• 58:11
  what can I do that is going to bring something meaningful to
• 58:15
  photography, like, what is my what's my mark? Like, can I and
• 58:20
  so now it's got me thinking more long term, more meaningful,
• 58:26
  thought out work, maybe work with a vision, with a purpose.
• 58:30
  So I've got a personal project I've been working on. It's, it's
• 58:33
  called trades, and I just, I want to photograph people where
• 58:36
  they work, particularly local business owners. So I've done
• 58:39
  everything from knife makers, two knife makers, two
• 58:43
  bladesmiths, pod people, a woman who's a who's made pottery her
• 58:48
  life's work and has taught it, still teaches it. I've done
• 58:52
  jewelry makers, like just a gamut of people, and I want to
• 58:55
  keep going and seeing where that project takes me. And I've got
• 58:57
  like, almost 20 people done as of a year ago, and my goal is
• 59:02
  50, my I would love to get to, like, past 50 and start thinking
• 59:06
  about, maybe this could be a book. Maybe this could be a
• 59:09
  gallery showing featuring all the people who came, who were
• 59:13
  part of the project. So that's one thing. I've got another,
• 59:16
  another thing in my head about, maybe something that represents
• 59:19
  me. I'm half Korean, you know, half American. So I have a
• 59:23
  project in mind. I've got a name for it. I've got a I've got a
• 59:26
  thought of, like, where that could take me. And maybe that
• 59:29
  says something about myself and the people I'm photographing,
• 59:32
  photographing. And then, you know, I saw these are the kind
• 59:35
  of things I'm thinking about, like, Where Can, can I use my
• 59:39
  camera to serve somebody else? Can it tell someone else a
• 59:44
  story? Can it, can it represent someone who's underrepresented?
• 59:48
  Can it shed light on the community? That's that's where
• 59:52
  my thoughts are on photography, and so I'm constantly like
• 59:55
  having these conversations about where, what can photography do
• 59:59
  for other people? And because I'm not, like I said, not
• 1:00:02
  bringing anything new to photography, especially in terms
• 1:00:05
  of technical aspects of it and skill. So can I say something
• 1:00:11
  rather than show something?
• 1:00:13
  Casey Fatchett: Well, I think that way, like it's listeners
• 1:00:18
  are probably tired of hearing me say this, but like the thing for
• 1:00:21
  me is always emotional content Trumps technical perfection. And
• 1:00:27
  I think what you're maybe discovering or finding out or
• 1:00:31
  delving into is what is the soul of your work, as opposed to the
• 1:00:38
  technique of the work, and using the techniques that you know to
• 1:00:42
  just bring out more of the the substance underneath, because I
• 1:00:50
  find they for me. Maybe this is different for you, but like the
• 1:00:53
  technique of things with JC, can't remember JC Carey talk
• 1:01:00
  about, like, I teach process, not recipe, and so that you know
• 1:01:08
  how to, like, do the things in, in, in your that you want to you
• 1:01:15
  make. You know how to use the lights, and you know how to use
• 1:01:18
  the technical elements, or whether it's natural light or
• 1:01:22
  off camera or whatever, to create the vision that you have.
• 1:01:27
  And I think that there's this sense of, just from what I'm
• 1:01:33
  getting from you, that you're looking for the you're looking
• 1:01:38
  for, more of the emotional weight of what you can offer is
• 1:01:41
  of your perspective on things. What you can offer is shedding
• 1:01:46
  light on people or subjects that you know most people don't pay
• 1:01:54
  attention to. Yeah, it sounds like, I don't know if you can
• 1:01:59
  confirm or deny that like it sounds like what you're
• 1:02:02
  discussing is like, taking on more of the the emotional
• 1:02:09
  underbelly of the work, as opposed to like technique.
• 1:02:14
  Justin Haugen: Yeah, I just feel like I'm in this, I'm in this
• 1:02:18
  ever shifting phase of my life like I'm always changing the
• 1:02:21
  work I did my 20s and 30s and now 40s are always going to be
• 1:02:24
  different, the kind of clients I'll work with, the kind of
• 1:02:28
  things that motivate me and get me out of bed and then, and
• 1:02:30
  then, of course, like all these other aspects of my life that
• 1:02:33
  are pulling at me, namely, like marriage and fatherhood, and I
• 1:02:39
  Guess I'm just trying to figure out who I am as other parts of
• 1:02:43
  me are getting more solid, solidified, my my photography is
• 1:02:48
  like a question mark to me in terms of, like, what I wanted to
• 1:02:50
  mean or say about me and the world around me. And in a time
• 1:02:54
  when I feel like people are focused on a lot of noise and
• 1:02:58
  like, I don't know, like, maybe I can bring some clarity to the
• 1:03:02
  world through photography. I don't know photography, yeah,
• 1:03:05
  it's a lot. I'm just, I'm just kind of in a I'm in a
• 1:03:08
  contemplative space right now as I'm spending less time in
• 1:03:11
  photography, my touch points, but photography are so much less
• 1:03:16
  than they used to be. I'm more effective, I'm faster. I'm
• 1:03:19
  getting in and out of my work better, like I just, I don't get
• 1:03:25
  to interface with photography as much as I used to. So when I
• 1:03:28
  participate in it, and how I choose to it, means more and
• 1:03:31
  more to me now.
• 1:03:33
  Casey Fatchett: Well, I'm guessing, and this might have to
• 1:03:34
  do with having children. You're also wondering, number one, what
• 1:03:37
  is my legacy as a photographer? Is kind of what you're thinking
• 1:03:40
  about, like, that that's like that, that's like, you're
• 1:03:42
  talking about, like, what impact Am I leaving is, or what am I
• 1:03:45
  doing with my photography? You're talking about, like, Oh,
• 1:03:47
  I'm not gonna, like, create some, like, vastly new technical
• 1:03:51
  thing, like, but what am I leaving the world with the
• 1:03:55
  photos I take?
• 1:03:57
  Justin Haugen: Yeah, that's probably, that's another whole
• 1:03:59
  conversation, legacy, what we're leaving behind. And, you know
• 1:04:02
  the two things? I guess, I think the thing that came to mind most
• 1:04:06
  when I became a parent is now, like, my mortality is clearly in
• 1:04:08
  view. There's Suddenly, like a there's an end to all this that
• 1:04:12
  I never thought about death the way I do now and then and then,
• 1:04:16
  like thinking about leaving this planet too early and not getting
• 1:04:21
  to, like, be there for my children and my wife. Like,
• 1:04:24
  that's just that that weighs on me heavily now. So, yeah, it's,
• 1:04:29
  I guess legacy plays it plays a part in that, like, what are you
• 1:04:32
  leaving behind? And I don't know. I don't have these, like,
• 1:04:35
  self aggrandizing delusions about about where I where my
• 1:04:39
  place is in the world, but it does it. My world is now this
• 1:04:44
  where I'm at right now and and, yeah, what I'm leaving behind is
• 1:04:48
  part of that too.
• 1:04:49
  Casey Fatchett: So well, you're wondering what impact you, you
• 1:04:51
  had, you have, what do you and I think that, you know, it's
• 1:04:57
  interesting. I lost both my parents in 2020, Me, and I look
• 1:05:01
  back at like, things like, when people were like, Oh, when did
• 1:05:05
  you get your interest in photography? And, like, both of
• 1:05:07
  my parents took pictures, but there's not, like, not their
• 1:05:11
  jobs. Like, my dad was a fire investigator, and he was taking,
• 1:05:14
  like, very technical photos at work, but he was also like, the
• 1:05:17
  family photographer, and he would, you know, take pictures
• 1:05:20
  that he was very I guess he was more interested in the emotional
• 1:05:27
  than technical. When he was like, take pictures of the
• 1:05:30
  holiday gatherings or whatever, like he was getting reactions
• 1:05:33
  out of people. And that's kind of become who I am as a
• 1:05:36
  photographer. Is like, you know, like, I prompt people to feel
• 1:05:40
  more comfortable in front of the cameras, so they forget about
• 1:05:43
  that I'm taking the picture, and they're themselves, but are also
• 1:05:47
  my mother, who took pictures to be part of her crafts, like
• 1:05:51
  she'd like, Get Stuff developed and whatever. Like, it's that
• 1:05:54
  sort of like I had never thought about really there in that
• 1:05:59
  sense, like, until they were gone, that they had had that
• 1:06:04
  effect on me, as far as like we have what I do, it took me back
• 1:06:12
  to a different place in viewing it from that perspective, and
• 1:06:17
  going like, wow, they really did have criminal impact on my
• 1:06:21
  photography career. What I like? I just kind of like, didn't
• 1:06:25
  think about that beforehand. I thought about, like, there were
• 1:06:28
  other things that, you know, we have similar senses of humor. We
• 1:06:31
  have, like, all these other things that I thought like a
• 1:06:33
  more direct things, like my upbringing, the connection that
• 1:06:38
  I had with them and not I think it's a good by going through
• 1:06:42
  their stuff afterwards again, reconnected me to their to their
• 1:06:47
  photography stuff that they they done that, how and how that
• 1:06:54
  affected my life.
• 1:06:55
  Justin Haugen: Yeah, I still want a cool thing to leave
• 1:06:58
  behind. What a great thing to
• 1:07:00
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, discover that it's a, I mean, I'm an
• 1:07:03
  introspective person, you know, generally, but it's that sort of
• 1:07:07
  like takes you off in a tangent, and like makes you see your past
• 1:07:15
  differently and see like you. How was that influenced by also,
• 1:07:21
  I'm a big fan of therapy, and I feel like most people should
• 1:07:23
  probably be in therapy at some point in their lives, just to,
• 1:07:27
  like, learn how to deal with things, mostly. And I was having
• 1:07:30
  a lot of grief and, like, problems, dealing with it, and
• 1:07:34
  in therapy, exploring those sort of thoughts, like, you know,
• 1:07:39
  what? What if they what is left of them? And like in realizing
• 1:07:43
  that there's a lot of them in me in various ways, and like the
• 1:07:46
  things that they instilled in me, and also just like the
• 1:07:51
  experience of being around them and the impact they had on other
• 1:07:55
  people, and like all these different ways, and finding
• 1:07:59
  those sort of like hidden things, that was it I don't
• 1:08:03
  necessarily think of on a or hadn't even like considered, and
• 1:08:08
  then later on being like, Oh, I hadn't, didn't, didn't, hit me
• 1:08:12
  on a conscious level, that it had such an impact. It's a is, I
• 1:08:21
  am, I can go off for like, days on, like, the emotional
• 1:08:24
  connection to photos and images and what it all like means to
• 1:08:31
  you in the long run. And like these, these, there's more than
• 1:08:34
  just, like, the moments of, like, going, like, Oh yeah, that
• 1:08:37
  was a great trip to the, you know, to the beach or whatever.
• 1:08:41
  Just like, like, diving into it and being able to have that, but
• 1:08:47
  also, like, I've thought about this myself, like, what am I?
• 1:08:50
  What is my and it becomes more of like the personal projects,
• 1:08:54
  like, what is, what is the things that I'm going to devote
• 1:08:57
  my time outside of what I'm getting paid to do, because, I
• 1:09:02
  mean, like, there's some people like, oh well, you can make a
• 1:09:04
  book out of it, or you can do a gallery showing, or can be you
• 1:09:06
  can sell this whatever. Like, who knows? There's no guarantee
• 1:09:09
  that that's ever going to make money. And I think that's one of
• 1:09:12
  the things you're talking about, like, this capitalism. And sort
• 1:09:15
  of, you know, like, how am I rectifying these two things?
• 1:09:19
  It's sort of looking like, what am I doing that gives back or
• 1:09:26
  really shows more of who I am as a person, in my perspective on
• 1:09:31
  the world, what I have to offer?
• 1:09:36
  Justin Haugen: It's a lot hopefully. I'm hoping I find
• 1:09:39
  that it's what am I becoming? My my mission now is to make that
• 1:09:45
  happen. So I know I'm very I'm very excited to see where my
• 1:09:50
  photography takes me in the next five years. Like, where, where,
• 1:09:53
  where will I be? Like, what kind of conversations am I going to
• 1:09:56
  be having 10 years from now? And hopefully I've been doing this
• 1:09:59
  for 30 years. Is, I
• 1:10:01
  Casey Fatchett: think that's a great place for
• 1:10:08
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  Hey, now for my favorite part of the show, what's that? Say?
• 1:12:30
  Useless information. This is always death just
• 1:12:35
  to stop that's a nice button on that. All right. So now we're
• 1:12:41
  going into our useless information for this episode.
• 1:12:48
  Justin. You probably know that Americans love hamburgers. So
• 1:12:57
  what's so what's your guess on how far the number of hamburgers
• 1:13:02
  Americans consume would stretch if you put them side by side in
• 1:13:09
  a year, in one
• 1:13:10
  Justin Haugen: in a year, enough to go around the Earth 13 times
• 1:13:16
  3232 times. Okay, almost triple but, yeah, I was contributing to
• 1:13:22
  that. We make burgers at the house once a week. Yeah.
• 1:13:25
  Casey Fatchett: I mean, I'm a big fan of burgers, but it's
• 1:13:27
  also like 32 times. Just, you know? Well, you know, it's
• 1:13:32
  probably true. Justin, I want to thank you very much for being on
• 1:13:36
  the show. I'm glad that we were able to arrange this. I know
• 1:13:38
  your time is precious, especially with a newborn.
• 1:13:43
  Really. Thanks a lot. Like, where can people find you? What
• 1:13:46
  else do you want to like? Pitch to people. If there's anything
• 1:13:49
  you want to like, tell people about Go ahead, sir.
• 1:13:53
  Justin Haugen: You can find me at justinhaugen.com it's H, A,
• 1:13:56
  U, G, E n.com, I'm on Instagram photo war, at photo Warlock,
• 1:14:01
  just like it sounds. And then he could find me on Facebook. I'm
• 1:14:05
  not on there as much these days. It's kind of noisy. I'm not
• 1:14:09
  having a good time on it anymore.
• 1:14:11
  Casey Fatchett: Ads and can't think of the word like the
• 1:14:18
  suggested content, then they're like posts from people you're
• 1:14:22
  friends with.
• 1:14:23
  Justin Haugen: It's rough. If you're from Tucson, Arizona, you
• 1:14:26
  can join my group. It's tap Tucson, aspiring and
• 1:14:29
  professional photographers. We've got nearly 5000 member
• 1:14:32
  community and stack group runs without me being on Facebook.
• 1:14:35
  Much Tuesday? Great, great, great group, great people. A lot
• 1:14:38
  of friendships on there. I am. I'm taking a break from some
• 1:14:47
  conferences this year, but usually every year, I'd like to
• 1:14:51
  teach at WPPI. I'm sponsored by Tamron USA, Tamron Americas, and
• 1:14:57
  hopefully I'd like to be at WPPI again. In this next fall or next
• 1:15:02
  next February, March, whenever they do it next spring. So
• 1:15:05
  that's where I'd like to be again. So hopefully you'll see
• 1:15:08
  me at a conference near you.
• 1:15:10
  Casey Fatchett: Well, Justin, thanks a lot for being on and
• 1:15:12
  you're welcome to come back anytime. Thanks. Casey, you
• 1:15:23
  welcome back. Listeners. Congrats on finishing the
• 1:15:26
  episode. Please go to the Episode notes and follow my
• 1:15:28
  guest, Justin Haugen, and while you're following, be sure to
• 1:15:31
  follow at the nerdy photo on Instagram. Threads, Tiktok, blue
• 1:15:35
  sky and Reddit. We have a lot of content coming out on the
• 1:15:38
  socials between episodes. And you know what? Golden. And I
• 1:15:41
  just finished getting this cargo container into place, and I
• 1:15:44
  think it might be time for a little beverage. Break snug. No,
• 1:15:49
  I already told you, I'm not gonna say it
• 1:15:51
  Gulden Hauer: snug. Okay, fine. Pivot.
• 1:15:57
  Casey Fatchett: Are you happy until next time? Everybody, stay
• 1:16:14
  safe and stay nerdy