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268: What Does the Future Service-Centric Organization Looks Like · Customer Service Revolution | Customer Experience & Employee Experience for Business Leaders

0:59
Welcome to the Customer Service Revolution Podcast with John DiJulius John,
1:04
the title of today's episode is intentionally provocative.
1:08
The Customer Service Department is dead.
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And before anyone panics, we aren't suggesting that companies should stop serving
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customers. We're asking whether customer service can continue to exist
1:18
as a department that owns problems created throughout the rest of the organization.
1:23
So let's start with the contradiction here.
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Organizations frequently say customer experience is everyone's responsibility.
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We say that. It sounds good, but when something is everyone's responsibility,
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it can quickly become no one's responsibility.
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John, what does enterprise-wide ownership of customer experience actually look like?
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And how do you prevent everyone owns it from being an excuse for having
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no real accountability?
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Yeah, I d I I don't know if if everyone owns it has been misconstrued.
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It's certainly, you know, in the past customer service was thought
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of as a department contact center support,
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phones, or where people go to place returns and put out fires.
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But customer experience, the client experience
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you know, has to be a a a an ecosystem of all departments.
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but there needs to be one person that owns it.
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And over the last twenty five years,
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this chief experience officer,
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chief customer officer was the fastest growing thing.
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Position in corporate America.
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Now that has evolved and ha has changed in the past five or six years.
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and I I couldn't find
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I c I found conflicting reports on Claude with the position and people
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are changing the title and it's it's you know,
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there's so many titles now, but but there has to be a champion and it can't
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be the ch you know, the CEO. I've you know,
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mid-sized companies I've I've seen the CEO say,
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I'm I'm the also the chief experience officer.
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The CEO president
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owns everything, which means you don't own anything.
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And that's why you have to have,
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you know, head of IT, a you know head of of I think it's called
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God, I forget what the title is,
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chief revenue officer, which is a head of sales,
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chief marketing officer, IT, you know,
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all those and you have to have a someone ahead of the experience.
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Now, what I like about the companies are doing it really well,
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they they still have a chief experience officer,
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but that experience isn't just over the customer experience,
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it's over
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the employee experience, HR reports to it.
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It's over the vendor experience.
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It's a whole ecosystem of experience.
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Someone has to lose sleep at night over the experience the company's providing.
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So
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Yep. Is there who do you think should ultimately be accountable then?
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I mean it's just whoever you select?
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Whoever
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Yeah, yeah. I mean the the chief experience officer.
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So we we just recently did a podcast with Jessica Shannon,
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Chief Experience Officer of Sandals,
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and that's exactly what her job is.
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It's it's it's all experiences roll up to her.
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So she has to make sure that that customer experience journey,
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the guest, the
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employee experience journey and and she had a great line that she used
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in the podcast, hire to retire.
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So the journey from hiring all the way to hopefully they're retiring,
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you know, that they have to manage that experience.
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But and then too often people forget the vendors are are a customer and need
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to be treated like a customer to,
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you know, have a successful relationship.
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We need our vendors. We we're every company's gonna need their vendors
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in hard times, but also in good times,
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you know, to to make sure you're you're getting a a great experience back from them.
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So I believe there needs to be a champion.
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The most successful businesses have a champion of the experience.
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most successful companies have that champion.
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They have some like Sandals has Jessica.
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What about companies that maybe aren't as big?
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Or you said you found conflicting evidence on Claude when you
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Did an AI search about this. Does the future service-centric organization still need
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a chief customer officer or customer experience department,
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or should that function eventually just become embedded throughout the business?
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I I I don't think it should ever be embedded.
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Now there is y y you're right,
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with small, medium and large corporations.
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you I don't want anyone that's a mistake everyone made is everyone ran
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out and hired a or a lot of people,
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too many companies ran out ran out and hired a a a a chief experience officer,
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chief customer officer. And as soon as the economy,
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you know, struggled
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A recession comes, that's the first position that got cut.
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So it's really important that there's a job descriptions tied with KPIs,
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ROIs, ROX, return on experience dashboard,
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what that job should look like so it's clear what that individual should
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be doing or team. Now huge companies,
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Starbucks,
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you know the Chick-fil-A's of the world,
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even price water house, they do have a customer experience department that
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is underneath the CXO, but that's huge companies.
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When you're middle size middle mid size and even smaller,
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that has to be a shared position.
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You probably can't justify a chief experience officer by itself.
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you know
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the salary and and all that. So you crawl,
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walk and run with that with, you know,
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head of a HR or training or whatever that may mean,
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you start, you know, giving it bandwidth and hours committed.
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But you gotta be very careful.
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So if 'cause if you have, you know,
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ten priorities or if that individual has 10 priorities,
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they have none. Right? So there has to be a few priorities
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that they lose sleep over, that they're causing everyone else to lose sleep over,
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including senior executive. Someone has to be at the table pounding
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on the table that this policy,
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this change, this product, this sales,
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you know, structure that you're implementing is could be hurting the experience,
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not helping. AI
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Great point, great point. and we see a lot of I would say different roles that
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attend our customer experience executive academy.
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So they're not all CXOs, they are people that hold other positions within their
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organization, correct?
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Yeah,
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I mean, you know, it started with that and that's what I thought it was gonna be,
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but some of our really visionary clients like New Day
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or Key Bank or, you know, so many others,
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sent multiple people, like in some cases dozens over the course of years,
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back of the house supports, non facing customers,
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because they knew
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that it had to be that ecosystem of and not silos.
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They're working together to see the part that they play,
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that their teams play in supporting the frontline operations and all that.
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So I in our conversation here.
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I want to get into.
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What happens if you don't have someone selected?
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But first I want to go back to you brought up AI.
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and I think this debate becomes more urgent when we look at what companies
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are doing with AI, right? It's something we're all using these days.
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In 2025, Mark Benioff, the CEO of Salesforce,
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said the company had reduced its customer support workforce from approximately 9,000
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people to 5,000 as AI agents began handling roughly.
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Roughly half of its customer interactions.
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But Gartner predicted in February of this year that by 2027,
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half of the companies that attributed customer service headcount reductions
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to AI would rehire people to perform similar functions under different job titles.
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Gartner also found that only 20% of customer service leaders surveyed
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had actually reduced agent staffing because of AI.
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This gives us two.
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Two very different visions of the future.
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Do you think, John, are companies using AI to design a better service experience,
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or are too many starting with a headcount reduction target and working backward?
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Yeah, you know, listen, I'm reading the same things you're reading
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and and working on some blogs with the theme being
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AI fatigue and AI remorse.
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And AI is great. It's here to stay,
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it needs to, but people jumped on it as merely an efficiency
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and cost savings without understanding how it impacts the
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customer experience and the employee experience.
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So I love it for the tedious tasks,
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the minutiae, but there is a lot of I think unintended and I when I would
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say I think I hopefully this was never a you know an intention,
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but unintended consequences. you know,
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i i it it it it it has you know the value of the human touch has never been more
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important now.
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you know and and and figuring out how to add you know digital convenience without
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out deleting the you know the humanity is so important so there's so many
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s case studies that we'll get into where co companies
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are reversing and finding that it's actually costing more
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to go AI than it was before they went all in AI.
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Again, I can't stress I love AI.
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when used properly, it can make us more efficient.
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But there's also another unintended consequence that we'll share in a little
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bit of what it's doing to the workforce,
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the ones that are left, and that there's no replacement for the ones that
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are about to retire.
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in Gartner in that same article that's that I will put a link to in
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the show notes for anybody interested in researching the whole thing,
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Gartner found that 85% of service leaders are adding responsibilities
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to frontline roles, while 75% are shifting agents into entirely new roles.
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If AI handles the simple questions,
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what should human service professionals be responsible for?
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Well, the enemy of of you know,
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a world class hospitality experience is obsession with efficiency optimiz
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optimization and and hospitality is not an industry.
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hospitality is the way we treat others and that's an all that's government,
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that's manufacturing, that's business to business,
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business to consumer, professional services.
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So
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you know, right an Daniel Pink said this on a podcast recently.
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it's so smart, you know, right answers still matter,
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but smart questions have become a premium.
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we used to have search engines,
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now we have answer engines. And when answers are everywhere,
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questions become the scarce resource.
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You know, when when we get answers cheap,
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curiosity becomes priceless. In a world of answer engines,
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curiosity becomes your killer app.
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because every breakthrough starts with a question,
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sometimes a weird question. you know,
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and he uses the example of, you know,
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you know, how could I put a thousand CDs in my pocket,
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you know, the old Steve Jobs creation.
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So, you know, i i the the the service aptitude skills are are are really
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at a premium today.
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for a lot of things because we're eliminating the the entry level position.
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and we live in a world that is relationship disadvantaged.
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So every generation has a decline in people skills,
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but more importantly the thirty and under,
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at no fault of their own, don't have the inherent people skills that,
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you know, the previous generations were forced to have.
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So that has to
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We're not gonna find 30 and unders enough with those inherent.
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So we have to make sure our training helps bridge the gap what they don't have
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and what their need to have.
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That's a great, that's a great point.
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so now companies are probably gonna have to compensate appropriately
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for more complex work that humans are doing,
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that you know, having that particular skill set.
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What about, John, if AI is taking the simpler tasks?
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And humans have the more difficult,
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more complex, they're probably also gonna receive the angriest of the customers,
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the hardest problems. How do organizations prevent burnout with that?
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Yeah, I mean it you know, that's a really good point that actually
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I didn't even think of until you know,
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I was prepping for this podcast that you're right.
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There, you know, the design is now if you can't
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get your answer solution refund,
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return within so many self service clicks chat bots.
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and you click to speak to a human being,
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that's you know, you you're gonna be really mad.
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So we gotta make that a little easier.
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We gotta make anything that's sensitive,
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anything that involves empathy,
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creativity, not just problem resolution that
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is is allowed for customers to interact with your experts.
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and for the experts, for the human beings,
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it can't just be the grudge buy,
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which is I'm mad because you guys screwed up.
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The order didn't make it, the you know,
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deposit isn't in there, whatever that may be,
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out of out of out of out of stock,
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w whatever the the business model is,
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that can't be the only time employees are are getting because that's gonna wear.
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They're gonna have empathy fatigue.
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And they're gonna you know, the the job satisfaction is just gonna go,
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you know, plummet.
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we use AI within The DiJulius Group for different things,
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repetitive tasks. So the AI might remove the repetitive work,
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but it may also leave employees with a set a steady stream then of escalations,
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emotional customers, high stake decisions.
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the job of being a customer service person could become more meaningful
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but also significantly more demanding then.
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Another shift that's happening outside the organization
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July of twenty twenty six, another Gartner study found that customers were
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approximately three times more likely to use a third-party generative AI tool than
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a company's own chatbot when trying to resolve a service issue.
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I found that fascinating. Among customers already using generative AI,
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58% had used it to complete a task,
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not just find information. In B2B settings,
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that increased to 74%.
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So customers may no longer begin with your website,
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app, salesperson, or contact center.
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They may ask their preferred AI platform to deal with your company for them.
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I think that's amazing, isn't it?
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do that
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a hundred percent of the time just as you brought that up you know an hour before
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we got on I I needed a a video that is embedded into
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my keynote slash PowerPoint presentation and I couldn't find where
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I downloaded it but I know it's in a presentation.
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So
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I went to Claude and asked how do I download a video that's embedded,
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right? I didn't go to Keynote,
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I didn't go to Apple who who technically,
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you know, I should have. But I've done that so much.
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Every time, you know, you know,
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I had a another problem where I could not shut off my screensaver from popping
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on every every three minutes. And you know,
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I just went to Claude and asked how I did it.
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And
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figured out in two seconds. So I'm not going to Apple or,
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you know, the the the the vendor,
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you know, I'm using. I'm going,
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you know, outside of it. but I'm getting my answer within seconds.
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So, what happens to customer relationships when customers stop talking directly
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to companies and send their AI agents to do it for them?
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Well,
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you know, here's the thing, a and and this has been historical.
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we've always had technological advances,
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maybe not at the pace that we are right now,
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but it's always been the case.
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And technological innovation is the shortest competitive advantage you can have.
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you know, if someone comes out with a new app,
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if someone comes out w you know,
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whatever.
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you know, that's the easiest for your competition to to replicate.
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So that by itself is not gonna be you know,
17:59
a competitive advantage. When the world gets more artificial,
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we need to become more human. And one of the most powerful ways to stand
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out remains to be human. The human side of the business is even more valuable
18:12
and it's dev definitely one of the most overlooked competitive advantages.
18:16
so
18:17
In a sales force research, might be the same study you're quoting,
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found 80% of customers say the experience a company provides is as important
18:26
as the service or products. you know,
18:28
I don't believe businesses need to choose between efficiency and relationships.
18:32
The strongest organizations, you know,
18:35
have both. And they merge them and marry them.
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Yeah. This sounds like it could be bigger than the move from stores to websites.
18:43
At least a website still belonged to the company.
18:46
But in this future, the customers,
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AI may decide which brands are considered,
18:50
compare the options for you, make the purchase,
18:52
and even resolve the problem. The company becomes almost invisible.
18:57
we've been talking about doing a new website and in researching that,
19:01
I read somewhere that websites may become obsolete within the next decade,
19:06
within this decade. Yeah. It's a
19:08
Wow. Wow. Yeah.
19:11
It's scary.
19:13
it is scary. It is scary. So I
19:15
It's a cost
19:16
savings, but yeah.
19:18
Well but is it? Because then you're gonna spend the money on AI,
19:21
right?
19:21
Well, yeah, but I mean man, talk about I mean yeah,
19:25
I mean it's killing your your how you brand yourself.
19:29
Yeah, and and whether that's true
19:30
That's crazy.
19:31
or not and whether that happens,
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but I just I thought it was worth noting.
19:35
Yeah.
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And for listeners out there, if this conversation is making
19:39
you question question whether your organization is truly prepared for
19:44
the future of customer experience,
19:45
we can help. We work with organizations to build customer service systems that
19:50
create consistency, empower employees,
19:53
and turn exceptional experiences into a competitive advantage.
19:56
And what's important about that when you say,
19:58
the systems, what you know, when AI is happening,
20:01
you have to have those systems to build the AI.
20:05
Process on top of. To learn more or schedule a conversation,
20:09
simply go to tdg.click forward slash call or you can always visit
20:14
the website thedijuliusgroup.com All right,
20:17
here's another uncomfortable question.
20:19
In February of 2026, Pega Systems reported that 77% of consumers surveyed said they
20:26
would always or often achieve better outcomes when dealing only with a human.
20:32
Two-thirds preferred human-led support,
20:34
and 48% said they did not trust businesses that used AI
20:40
to completely handle customer service interactions.
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Yet many companies continue making it more and more difficult to reach
20:47
an actual person. Are we moving toward a world where access to a human becomes
20:52
a premium service available only to high-value customers?
20:55
I think so. I you know, in the average and below average companies with customer
21:02
experience, I I do think they're gonna charge for that and it's i i i it it'll
21:07
be a backlash. It's kinda like,
21:09
you know, when you go back to the Spirit Airlines and Frontier that,
21:13
you know, move into a world that,
21:15
you know, everything's a la carte and
21:18
You know, if you're a premium customer,
21:20
you get these things, but you're paying for it.
21:22
but again, there's no loyalty.
21:25
The number one way customers companies create customer loyalty is the
21:29
way you make someone feel. And an app doesn't make me feel special.
21:33
you know, the w number one way,
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you know, you create customer loyalty is when they like who they're dealing with.
21:40
They believe in who they're dealing with.
21:42
The
21:43
person who they're dealing with excites them because their knowledge,
21:47
their passion. you know, they're employee evangelists.
21:51
Employee evangelists means they love the industry they're in.
21:54
They're geeks about customer experience or technology or or finance
21:59
or wealth advisory or or law law or whatever it is.
22:03
and and they're they're excited about the brand they work in.
22:07
They're a brand evangelist
22:09
And they like who they do it for.
22:10
They like helping people.
22:12
I can see companies being able to promote that you can reach a human
22:17
and it becomes a major brand differentiator.
22:21
Yeah, I mean I don't i I remember this twenty years ago that there used to be ads,
22:25
if it was on billboards or where I'd saw that if you call our eight hundred number,
22:30
a human will pick up. Like that was when when the automated phone systems came
22:37
in and you had to press one for this and two for this and that became a
22:41
a point of difference. So yeah,
22:43
I I I I I I I again the
22:46
The, you know, the more digital we become,
22:48
the more human is the competitive advantage.
22:50
And great companies will weaponize that.
22:53
You you have children that are younger generation.
22:56
How do they feel about that? Picking up the phone to s solve something versus trying
23:01
to do it themselves online? Do they have preferences?
23:05
You know,
23:05
I don't talk to about that. I I I I
23:07
Yeah.
23:08
I'm sure they're totally convenient without having to pick up the phone.
23:12
But it's a loneliness world. People don't feel as connected.
23:16
and which means community is a differentiator.
23:20
It's on its way back. it's what Starbucks is banking on everything,
23:25
the third place.
23:27
because people aren't getting it at work anymore.
23:29
That used to be the one or two things.
23:31
It was at work. but you know, if you think about why do you go
23:36
to a sporting event live,
23:39
football game, baseball game, basketball game,
23:42
soccer game, you know, look at the the craziness of the FIFA World Cup that
23:47
was just so successful. Or why do you go to a a cold play concert or
23:54
whatever the the the the Taylor Swift.
23:56
none of it is a better experience from listening and seeing.
24:03
I mean nothing beats sitting on my couch and watching the game
24:07
in a controlled heated environment.
24:11
get up and grab food as I wish.
24:15
watching the replays, watching the game,
24:18
you know, there's nothing gonna come close to that at a live event.
24:21
Yet
24:22
depending on which sporting event we're talking about or concert,
24:25
fifty to a hundred thousand people choose to have less of
24:30
a spectator viewing experience,
24:33
but the community. They're all there cheering on and and being part of,
24:39
you know, one thing, right? And and and rooting for and,
24:43
you know, being in that live performance of Taylor Swift.
24:47
You know, the the the community is so big and that's one thing that hasn't declined,
24:52
it's only gone up, is concerts and sporting events and things like that.
24:58
And I think that's where the pendulum is gonna swing back to brand experience.
25:04
That's a that's a great analogy there.
25:06
Yeah. there is something about attending an event live,
25:09
not just seeing it live, but like you said,
25:12
the community. So it No.
25:13
Well yeah, you don't see it as well.
25:15
I mean,
25:16
unless you're one of the few people that get the front row courtside,
25:20
you know, seats, which I mean,
25:21
that's less than one percent of the hundred thousand that are in the arena,
25:26
you're not seeing it that well.
25:28
You we're all watching it on a a jumbotron.
25:32
Right? I mean, that's you know,
25:33
that's not a a good experience,
25:34
but we're willing to pay the obscene amount of tickets and parking and hours.
25:41
lost in getting there and s waiting in in a parking jam after because
25:48
of that community, you know, shared experience.
25:52
Whether you're
25:52
Yeah, and nothing
25:53
like a soccer futbol game live where you have the chanting and singing
25:58
Yeah.
25:59
of the crowds. Love that. John,
26:00
If customers trust humans more,
26:03
but companies can serve them more cheaply with AI,
26:06
whose interests should determine the service model?
26:11
Well, listen, the the the the experience i i is and the micro experiences,
26:17
not the outcomes, is the leading indicator of customer loyalty,
26:21
micro experiences, all those minor little things,
26:24
some of which can happen and be better at AI.
26:28
But the advent of AI is accelerating
26:32
The entry entry level apocalypse,
26:34
right? Everyone knows that. Two-fifths of global leaders revealed that entry level
26:39
roles have already been reduced or cut due to efficiencies made by AI.
26:44
The logic was seductive in simplicity.
26:47
Cut costs, move faster, shrink training budgets,
26:50
let AI and a leaner workforce handle the rest.
26:53
However, in reality, it's producing something else entirely.
26:57
Flatten teams with little agency,
26:59
with little autonomy, which
27:01
That's the best part of our jobs is that when we get to decide,
27:06
we don't have to ask permission.
27:07
We don't have to, you know, you know,
27:09
up you know, out of my pay grade,
27:11
all those things. now there's endless cycles of rework and exam exhausted senior
27:17
employees juggling all the task levels.
27:19
Wha what I what I mean by that is entry level jobs are are being removed,
27:25
Entry level of accountants, financial advisors,
27:28
consultant are being removed. We don't need people to do that.
27:32
So, so example in in like the law legal field.
27:35
If you were a lawyer working on a case,
27:39
you'd have a junior lawyer that would do case study,
27:43
research, and all that to prepare for your argument.
27:47
Well, now AI can do that in a second,
27:49
but
27:50
hollowing out the junior ranks,
27:52
businesses are putting more putting themselves squarely in the path
27:55
of a slow burning demographic time bomb as seniors begin to retire
28:01
in record numbers. So from from now until 2032,
28:06
which sadly is less than six years,
28:09
18.4 million experienced workers aged
28:15
55 to 64 with
28:17
post-secondary education are expected to retire.
28:21
But so eighteen over eighteen million of people are gonna retire,
28:26
but there's only thirteen million workers,
28:29
16 to 24, who are entering with with s similar qualifications.
28:35
So some examples of of of how people reverse.
28:39
Uber's president chief operating officer Andrew McDonald said in
28:43
a recent podcast interview
28:45
that's becoming harder and harder to justify AI costs in the company.
28:50
The company's chief technology offer officer went viral in April
28:55
for admitting Uber Uber burned through its 2026 Claude Code budget
29:01
in just four months, the entire year's budget.
29:04
last month, Brian Katanza Cantanzaro,
29:11
vice president of
29:12
of applied deep learning of Nvidia suggested that AI use use isn't actually saving
29:19
companies from labor costs and it be could could be costing them
29:23
more than humans currently I'm sorry could cost them more than
29:28
the humans they currently employ.
29:30
Right? I mean so you know it's Microsoft has raised concerns about the cost of AI.
29:36
The company has reported begun canceling licenses for engineers using anthropics
29:41
clawed due to high cost raising questions about the cost of adoptions.
29:46
These are AI companies
29:49
so economics differ widely in their beliefs about whether AI will actually lead
29:54
to a job a a c apocalypse, largely because adoption is happening more slowly than
30:01
technol technological advancement.
30:04
a recent study found that rapid advancements in AI capabilities
30:08
are not translating automatically into broad economic lanes or meaningful adoptions.
30:14
Recent company announcements illustrate two different ways technology
30:19
can shape service.
30:20
So Walmart described its approach as people-led tech powered.
30:25
The company introduced AI tools for approximately one and a half million
30:29
US associates, including real-time translation and technology,
30:34
that reportedly reduced shift planning time from 90 minutes to 30 minutes.
30:38
Walmart has also reported that AI has reduced customer care resolution times
30:43
by as much as 40%.
30:45
And Walmart, my understanding is,
30:48
has has become really good at resolution and returns compared to what
30:54
it may have been known for in the past.
30:56
Starbucks has taken a similar position.
30:58
Its green apron service model combines staffing,
31:02
workflow changes, and technology intended to give employees more time
31:06
for customer connection. In January 2026,
31:09
Starbucks reported improved service times,
31:12
stronger customer satisfaction,
31:14
and average peak service of less than four minutes across its cafe
31:19
and drive-thru locations. These companies aren't presenting technology
31:22
as the experience.
31:23
They're positioning it as infrastructure that helps employees deliver
31:28
the experience. So again, they have the systems like we talked about that
31:33
we help companies create. They have those systems in place already
31:37
and they're layering AI on top of it.
31:39
Is that the real blueprint? An organization that becomes more automated behind
31:44
the scenes so it can become more human in front of the customer?
31:49
Yeah,
31:49
I mean a hundred percent. And it it's it's been working
31:52
for Starbucks because they're coming up on their two year anniversary
31:57
of the new CEO taking over and the one year anniversary of their theme back
32:03
to Starbucks and you know, all accounts KPIs show that it it's working.
32:09
So yeah, to remove minutia, the example I could give right now in our business
32:14
w with our clients, and and with our employees is when we do
32:18
a customer experience cycle workshop,
32:21
it's it's, you know, eight hours and it's employees writing on the wall
32:26
on flip charts. all right, at this stage of interaction,
32:29
from the customer's vantage point,
32:31
what are the service defects that'll ruin the experience here that we want to avoid?
32:36
what are the SOP's operational standards?
32:39
You know, they list all that. What are the experiential that is
32:43
our really signature experience that's a memorable part of the experience that they
32:48
will they will go home and talk about and that that our competitors aren't doing?
32:53
And then the final piece, what are the above and beyond opportunities that
32:57
may present them? So you want to create this and and and and and throw
33:01
ideas on a wall in the in the in the workshop.
33:04
But when the workshop's done, you just have a ton of stuff.
33:08
Well, one of the greatest things,
33:11
whether it's our team doing it or the project lead at our clients,
33:15
is they could take a picture of those sheets that have dozens and dozens of answers,
33:20
put it in AI, and they could put it in a a workable
33:23
Yeah.
33:24
document. Before either our consultants
33:28
or someone on our team support or someone on their team would literally have
33:32
to transcribe that for hours.
33:36
Now it takes, you know, probably less than a minute to get it all.
33:41
So that that's not fun. That's not productive.
33:44
I I would hate my job if I had to do that on either end.
33:48
But now I could get to all right,
33:50
this doesn't apply, this is unrealistic,
33:53
this, you know, blah blah. And now we can move around short and get to it.
33:56
That's that's the power and there's just I mean,
33:59
there's an endless amount of examples of that.
34:01
That improves someone's job satisfaction.
34:03
I love that you brought up the creating a signature brand experience,
34:08
the journey mapping process that we go through with our clients and that
34:11
we teach in the academy, because that leads to this next point I want
34:15
to make about creating a better experience,
34:17
the personalization. The future service-centric organization will also have access
34:23
to unprecedented amounts of customer data.
34:26
But having the ability to personalize that experience does
34:29
not automatically make that personalization beneficial.
34:32
In July 2025, three US senators challenged Delta Airlines over concerns that
34:38
its AI-supported pricing model could eventually be used to determine what
34:43
an individual customer might be willing to pay.
34:45
That's scary. Delta responded that it did not use and did not plan
34:49
to use personal data to set individualized fares.
34:53
However, the public reaction quickly demonstrated how personalization
34:58
can be perceived as surveillance or exploitation.
35:02
Where's the line between using customer data or Ford that we talk about,
35:08
family, occupation, recreation dreams that you know that we like to collect?
35:13
Where's the line between using customer data to serve someone better and using
35:17
it to extract the maximum amount of money from them?
35:20
Well, I mean listen, this isn't new.
35:22
all airlines, US airlines, have been doing this f long before technology,
35:29
right? if you buy you know, a ticket for a trip
35:35
two months in advance and I buy it twenty four hours in advance,
35:39
I'm paying three times more because they know I must be desperate.
35:44
you know, it versus the opposite of like,
35:47
you know, we should be selling it cheaper so that,
35:50
you know, once a plane takes off,
35:51
you can never resell that seat.
35:53
It's no it it's also no different than,
35:56
you know, Uber does peak rates.
36:01
So if there's a a ball game downtown,
36:03
a concert, whatever going on, you're gonna pay ten times as much.
36:09
than you will on a Monday at 8 p.m.
36:11
versus you know Saturday night at 8 p.m.
36:13
And then you know the the oldest one is you know what you pay on New Year's
36:19
Eve for dinner. But then there's another one I just heard because you know
36:24
my my kids are getting married or just got married.
36:27
I heard that if you go to a a catering venue place and don't tell them it's
36:33
for a wedding.
36:34
But tell them it's for a birthday or whatever the occasion is.
36:38
It'll be significantly less. But the moment you let them know it's for a wedding,
36:43
you know, the the prices are are dramatically more.
36:46
So I don't know. I th I don't think this is anything new.
36:49
and when you feel that you've been taken advantage of,
36:54
especially when you're in a vulnerable place,
36:58
I gotta, you know, jump on a plane today for
37:02
you know, a crisis, a last second meeting,
37:04
whatever it may be, you know, that's gonna leave a bad taste in
37:08
in in customers' mouth. They not only will probably less likely use
37:14
you in the future, but what they're gonna say about you.
37:16
Integrity
37:16
Well and
37:17
shouldn't be something that is outdated.
37:21
Agreed. but even that example is different than them looking up.
37:25
I have an appointment to go into,
37:27
you know, your son's going in to find a venue for his wedding,
37:30
and for them to look up and go,
37:32
I see he's the son of John DiJulius who owns multiple companies and yeah.
37:38
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, people have said that to me and in in in
37:42
in the industry and so you know,
37:44
obviously I don't know what percentage this is of speakers and consultants,
37:49
but they charge based on the the company size.
37:52
which may or may not be right.
37:54
we don't. I mean we charge what we charge,
37:56
you know, what what what our our our day rate is or whatever.
38:01
but I don't you know.
38:02
you know, see if it's a Fortune one hundred company for,
38:06
you know, two hours of my time versus it's a,
38:10
you know, a mid sized company.
38:12
That's, you know, my time is my time.
38:14
now, I do agree, in some cases with consulting,
38:19
the bigger company is gonna take a lot more support.
38:23
But sometimes a smaller company takes a lot more support because they don't have
38:27
the resources, they don't have the customer service department team to help them.
38:32
So I you know, i i i I I this is nothing new.
38:35
But we still don't
38:36
we still don't do that based on company size.
38:38
It's based on the project and the amount of days.
38:39
No. Correct. Amount of days is usually gonna be ~
38:42
It's a very yeah clear cut.
38:45
yes. Yeah, yeah. But I I don't th I don't think this is anything new.
38:49
I just think it's being reframed.
38:51
It's like quiet quitting and you know,
38:53
all those. Yeah, that was just a a new term put on something that's always happened.
38:59
PWC in 2025 had a customer experience survey that found
39:04
52% of consumers stopped using or buying from a brand because of
39:09
a bad experience with its product or services.
39:12
That same study found that 58% were only somewhat comfortable or
39:18
not comfortable at all using AI tools to engage with brands.
39:22
The consequences are significant,
39:24
yet, many service organizations are still measured primarily by speed,
39:28
average handle time, ticket volume,
39:30
and cost per contact.
39:32
Which traditional customer service metrics are now working against the creation
39:37
of a truly service centric organization?
39:40
Yeah, I mean, you know, you could have things quick but have a bad taste
39:43
in your mouth. And you can have things,
39:45
you know, really you know, done well,
39:47
but it took too long. Th it it it is a balance,
39:50
right? you know, I want efficiency,
39:53
but I want someone a human being.
39:55
I you know, you walk up to, you know,
39:57
order your latte and she's a robot,
39:59
but we got it really quick and it was right,
40:02
that that that doesn't feel good to me.
40:04
You know, on the flip side she says hi and asks me how my day is.
40:08
Maybe she knows my order, but every time I take a sip,
40:11
it's like Russian roulette. I want both.
40:13
I want both. In in most circumstances,
40:18
but so it's really a balancing act and what happens all the time is people,
40:23
you know, jump on the bandwagon and go f too far to the to the one side.
40:27
And then it becomes the opportunity.
40:29
Right now the customer experience,
40:31
a human experience is the number way to weaponize your competitive advantage because
40:36
so many people are going away from it.
40:38
Yep. So what do you think companies like what are important KPIs for them
40:42
to be measuring these days? because and I think this is even before AI,
40:46
if you look at average handle time,
40:49
it could encourage employees to rush customers.
40:52
Yeah, there's always unintended consequences.
40:55
yeah, you know, a hundred percent.
40:57
so I we have, you know,
41:00
podcasts and consulting and blogs on this.
41:04
You know, the the the NPS and customer satisfaction is way down
41:09
as far as response rate. we have survey fatigue.
41:14
So I always go back to if your business model allows for it,
41:17
which you know
41:18
I think eighty percent do is earn sales growth,
41:22
which is looking at, you know,
41:24
where your new and returning customers are coming from,
41:27
or repeat customers. yeah, are they are they being bought,
41:30
which is advertising, or are they being earned,
41:33
which is repeat and and referrals?
41:36
And that says everything. How likely are you to recommend us?
41:41
there's a study,
41:42
The referral gap explained. Studies on customer referral behavior have found that
41:47
while roughly 83% of satisfied customers say they're willing to refer
41:53
the brands that they like, only 29% do.
41:57
Sit, think about that for a second,
42:00
right? You almost certainly have a warehouse full of customers who like you,
42:05
who would happily vouch for you.
42:08
Yet the overwhelming majority never do.
42:11
not because they're unhappy, because nothing in their experience ever gave them
42:15
a story worth repeating or an easy,
42:18
natural moment to repeat. That's the referral gap.
42:22
That's the one. Yeah.
42:23
Wow. And that's
42:24
a big gap too. Ooh.
42:26
All right, let's finish by making this highly practical.
42:28
I'm gonna name an area of the organization and I want you to tell us what must
42:33
be different in the future service centered company.
42:36
You ready? All right, leadership.
42:37
What must leaders do differently?
42:39
They gotta model the behavior,
42:41
go show the proper way, and when necessary,
42:44
use words. so being human-centric to team members will make them more human-centric.
42:50
EX equals CX, employee experience equals customer experience,
42:55
and they have to focus on a few priorities and speak about them often.
43:01
Jim Collins says in good to great or said in good to great.
43:06
great leaders talk about a few things constantly.
43:09
employees, what authority and skills must employees have?
43:13
Well, so the skills are they have to come AI ready
43:18
if they can in their previous
43:22
and current professional development.
43:26
They have to be prepared for AI,
43:29
so they aren't eliminated and they can add value with AI,
43:34
as well as they have to have the key service aptitude skills that
43:39
are eroding you know, empathy,
43:41
curiosity, ability to make a connection and build a rapport,
43:45
being a good listener, diffusing an upset ca customer,
43:49
making a brilliant comeback, the energy that you want to have to be around,
43:55
fr you know, friendly, positive,
43:58
genuinely like others in the enthusiasm.
44:01
All those are the ten service aptitude skills that are declining
44:06
and and and disappearing. So companies need to make sure they're training
44:12
and adding that not only to their onboarding but ever boarding continuously because
44:17
you know, th we won't find enough of the younger generation and no fault
44:21
to their own that will have those skill sets.
44:24
Okay, technology, what should AI handle and what should it never
44:28
be allowed to decide alone?
44:30
All the repetitive tasks. I mean that's clear tasks.
44:35
but nothing with integrity and ethics.
44:38
i it could start, but you have to be able to have,
44:42
you know, people handling that.
44:45
AI should never deliver a
44:50
a sensitive topic to a patient,
44:52
a customer. that should always be done by a human being that's well trained
44:57
to deliver that. It should never be the one that tells a person that they
45:02
got declined for a loan, a mortgage.
45:04
that has to be delivered by a human being.
45:07
it you know, you know, anything with with finance or or health
45:13
should be delivered by a human being.
45:15
Organizational design, which walls or silos must disappear?
45:20
God, all of I mean, we have to work i as a team,
45:24
a t team of of cross department collaboration.
45:28
everyone needs to understand that they have a customer and who their customer
45:32
is and what I do or don't do well today,
45:36
how it impacts my customer. And that could be the person in the cube next to me,
45:40
that could be person
45:42
at the store or operations or in the field that's serving our customer
45:47
and obviously that could be the the end customer depending on what position
45:53
you have. But everyone needs to understand the part that they play in
45:57
the success of the customer.
46:00
Okay, measurement. What should every executive team be reviewing?
46:03
th th you know, the the each each department has its own KPIs a and
46:07
and they need to, but everyone needs to understand the KPIs that report
46:11
up to the chief experience offer and the CEO,
46:14
which has earned sales growth,
46:16
on time, you know, customer complaints.
46:19
I mean there's so many and it all depends on the business model,
46:21
but what what their impacting of the the the customer outcome is.
46:27
So if if
46:28
earned sales is going down, there has to be,
46:33
you know, cause and effect of what,
46:35
you know, each department, why that's happening.
46:38
Why are we overpromising? Why aren't we in the certainty business?
46:42
Why aren't we updating our customers when things are are are are
46:46
not being delivered as promised.
46:49
customer access. When must a customer be able to reach a human?
46:54
When they want to. Bottom line,
46:55
when they want to.
46:56
I like that answer. Trust, what is one use of company data that organizations should
47:02
refuse even if it might increase revenue?
47:05
yeah.
47:05
what do you think?
47:06
What's your opinion on that?
47:08
Yeah, so I think from, you know,
47:09
our conversation earlier in here,
47:11
I d I think there are there is a lot of information that should remain private about
47:16
an individual. And I think anything that's going to affect how you
47:20
profile, whether it's income or anything else,
47:23
I think shouldn't be allowed.
47:25
Yeah, I mean you know, to your point,
47:27
the pricing based on size or vulnerability,
47:33
crisis, or what someone's willing to pay.
47:37
I mean what so you know, that's why you you have first class and and coach or,
47:42
you know, premium versus this and upgrades.
47:45
Great. Let people choose.
47:47
But we shouldn't be choosing for them as businesses that we can charge them more
47:53
because they will pay it.
47:54
Okay, John, if a CEO listening today wants to determine whether
47:58
the company's becoming service centric or merely more automated,
48:02
what is the first question that CEO should ask?
48:05
How is this making a customer feel?
48:07
you know, and that that that's really to me what the experience is all about.
48:11
How do they feel doing business with with you?
48:14
was that easy? And do I feel feel better as a result
48:20
of doing business with you? And usually an app,
48:23
a website, a self-service channel is not by itself gonna make someone.
48:29
feel great.
48:30
The future service-centric organization will not be the company with
48:34
the most technology, the fewer employees,
48:36
or the fastest chatbot. It will be the organization that uses technology
48:41
to eliminate friction, gives employees the authority to use judgment,
48:45
and makes every department accountable for the experience it helps create.
48:49
Customer service may stop being a department,
48:53
but service must become the operating system of the entire company.
48:57
And it's really important that people have their systems down before they start
49:03
laying the AI on top of it. So again,
49:06
listeners, we would love to help you with creating those,
49:10
because we know that's the most important part is creating those different systems
49:14
before you start.
49:15
With the AI. Get a hold of us,
49:17
schedule a call. We're happy to talk to you.
49:19
Tdg.click forward slash call.
49:23
And we can talk about if the academy is right for you,
49:26
if consulting is right for you,
49:27
or maybe even joining our live stream.
49:30
Thanks for listening to the Customer Service Revolution podcast.
49:33
If you've enjoyed this episode,
49:35
please subscribe, share it with your team,
49:36
visit thedijuliusgroup.com for more strategies.
49:39
John, thank you so much.
49:41
So much, and we're gonna look forward to seeing those blogs when they come
49:44
out that you talked about today.
49:47
Thank you.
49:48
We'll see you next time, listeners.