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Designing Premium Content for Conversion on Amazon · Selling on Giants: The eCommerce Marketplace Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Hey everyone, this is Selling on Giants, the e-commerce marketplace show, where we chat with experts in the e-commerce industry and we talk about e-commerce marketplaces.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Victor Dwyer, and our guest today is Daniela Bullsman, founder of Mindfulgoods.co.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Her female-driven agency creates launch-ready Amazon listings and Amazon Creative.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: We'll explore designing premium content for conversion on Amazon before we dive in.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Daniela will introduce herself and what she's currently working on.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Victor.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Daniela Bullsman.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the founder of Mindful Goods.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: We create launch-ready listings for 100 plus brands.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Every year, we're also in the Amazon Creative Services program, which is an invite-only program for a select few Amazon creative agencies like us.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to tell you all about it today.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really excited.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like we started out like the conversation, like super high energy.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: I came on and sneezed right away.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: And like I could already tell the energy was going to be awesome.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: I knew this one was going to be good.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really excited.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, we don't have any background music, but we we might like start a duet in here pretty soon, it sounds like.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm excited.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, like starting out, like I love to really start with what element of a product listing do you find most important on Amazon lately?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because Amazon's constantly changing, it's becoming more creative platform time after time.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: What would you say is the most important part of a product listing on Amazon?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's hard for me to give one, right?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're on the creative side, but we also do SEO content.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: I really look at it as three steps, and you can't get to step two without step one, you can't get to step three without step two.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, like the first step is always gonna be be the SEO copy for me because the title has such heavy relevance on the whole search algorithm and getting found.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can't get found, you can't show up in search, right?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So then after you get found and you are showing up in search, how do you make sure you get the clicks?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's with your main image.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the piece number two that has to happen.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then once you get them into your listing, because you have a bang in main image, then how do you sell them and convert them with all the rest of your content?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: My favorite parts of all of that is the creative content.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: We love bringing that D2C look to Amazon, and that's what we're known for.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's amazing because I always talk, I preach this from the highest tops of every single building and possible.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: The difference between a brand and a seller.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much of a difference.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: The seller is like, how many sales can I get today?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: And they couldn't care less about anything else.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: But when you're trying to build a real brand, like that's what creative matters.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: You're trying to build a lasting legacy for your business.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just so, so important.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And like the creative aspect on how you design your main image.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what's going to separate you versus another Chinese seller.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because think about it, pricing is a race to the bottom.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Any Chinese sellers, they're going to just slap something up.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: They're a seller.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very seller mindset.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Slap something up, get the lowest price possible.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's the game.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: But there's also the brands game where you can keep your price at the same level.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: You don't always have to do this price war because when you have brand, you don't have to play that game.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're in a brand long-term longevity, like customer experience type of game.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that creative is like the best way to communicate to the customer, in my opinion.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't agree more.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's there's so much that goes into it too, right?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's the voice, it's the tone, it's the messaging, it's the hierarchy, it's the elements on the page, it's the information that you're communicating, it's the colors, it's all the little elements, everything playing together and not looking like you went to Fiverr to go do it, right?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like that, like it that can actually work for some brands that are in the commodity space, though, right?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to like completely knock it.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not what we do.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: And let's start with the main image.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Creatively, how do you stand out from the competition on Amazon on the search results with your main image?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I look at it through the lens of like three to four steps.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: The first step is how much of the space that you're using within the space that Amazon is giving you.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times brands might not realize this, but um if my head is the product, I'm not using the full frame, right?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's stuff, there's still space right here above my head.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I want the product to be like this.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: So my product looks like really big in the frame, right?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that, those tiny things, right?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just pixels, it's just a tiny few pixels.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: It makes a huge difference.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Just that, just that one thing alone can make a big difference.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And anybody can adjust that in Canva.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to go to a fancy designer for that, right?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: But then beyond that is where things get interesting, right?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Considering a render versus a photo and testing them.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now it has to be a high quality render, right?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: So step two, considering a render versus a photo, right?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so technically, renders are not allowed on Amazon.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: But if you go to a category like let's say um dog treats, 95% of what you're gonna see in the search results is a render on the main image.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So where I think this comes from is Amazon setting those standards a long time ago and not revising them, but also looking at intent, right?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Amazon doesn't want you to show a manipulative or bad image of what the client is not gonna get.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a low quality render or if you're modifying or putting up a fake product that doesn't even exist, that's what Amazon does not want, right?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: But if you are using your exact product photo and you're creating a render so that it looks cleaner, crisper, better on Amazon, then you're aiding the shopper in the experience.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what Amazon wants at the end of the day.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Are you making the experience better for the customer?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes or no?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say you consider a render and you test it and it works well, great.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Then beyond that, there's things like iCandy and post edit.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So iCandy for us is considering like all the extra little things that you can do on the side of the bottle or things that you can bring in to make it pop.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: So for instance, if you were showing like a supplement, some people want to know is it a powder, is it a pill?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Let's show the pill next to the bottle.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Let's show a few pills next to the bottle.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: We had a client uh called Neurogum.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: You would think gum is is a chewy stick, right?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: But this wasn't.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: It looks like a little pill when it comes out of the container.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we showed them floating in the air, and it's those tiny little things like the angle of the box with the shadow, with the pills in the air.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you're gonna pull that from Amazon and show it on the screen, but it's a really great example of getting creative with a main image using eye candy.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Then post edits is thinking about what on the packaging can be enhanced to aid the shopper in their experience.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: So something like, does it come with 30 packets?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Let's make that big and bold.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Do we know people are searching for the 30 packet or the 60 packet?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you have two sizes, make it really big and search so that they can see it from mobile.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then they're like, boom, I was looking for the 30.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Click, right?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, try to make those things really easy.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: The shopper is searching for a very specific thing, usually they have intent when they're shopping on Amazon.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So if you understand those top three things that they're looking for in relation to your product, like a vegan, this or something that they're searching for, and you can build that into a post ed and make it really big and legible from mobile, you're good to go.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So those are all the components of a main image.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I love to, I want to go through analysis with you just spot on, like uh live, and just figure out like I want to do a really, really boring category, and I want to see what what you kind of think about it.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to do magnesium supplements.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a lot of experience in the magnesium supplement category, and I'm gonna share my screen real fast.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd love to just hear what your thoughts are.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is super boring.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there is not a screen.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: There is like it's just literally the bottle, that's it.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, what can people do to like?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: It looks like some some people are doing the three bottles right here.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think uh is the best way to like upgrade this experience for the customer?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great question.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, this is actually the first thing that we do as well.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: We pull up a competitive set and try to look at what is going on in the search results, what's what what is rising to the top?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And how how do we stand out from all of those, right?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: So if everybody's showing the bottle straight on, maybe we have a slight angle.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: If everyone's showing just the bottle, maybe we show the pills to the side of it.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the things I also look at like the packaging, how is the packaging going to show up on digital shelf?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is it gonna be white and muted like that second one in the ad?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: If it is, is there anything else we can do to enhance that packaging with a post edit to make it pop just a little bit more?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: The calm gummies, that's what they're selling right there.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Calm gummies.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's like really easy and big to read.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: But if there was a second thing that I would say is like there's a couple things that look really tiny to read on that packaging that might be able to be enhanced with the post edit.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: We're not talking about confusing the shopper.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about like, is there another piece of information on that packaging that I as a shopper want to see right now, bigger and bold, to help me click on that image, yes or no?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we scroll down.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Another trick that we got from an inside tip recently is showing like the front and back together.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: So for instance, I don't see anybody doing this in this category right now, but there it is, Magwell.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So imagine if you didn't have the three bottles.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's that's probably a three pack.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's why they're showing the three.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: But if you let's just say, let's just say if it was a pack of one, I wouldn't be showing three.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: But what I would be doing is showing the two.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: I would be, I would slide that bottle over to the left and have that back one to the right, and I would test that against the three.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: I would imagine that the th they probably have a three-pack inside this listing.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this is the parent listing, but that might be confusing the shopper.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd be careful there.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, again, the one on the right, you'll see the magnesium.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to pronounce that, but with the packaging next to it.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's a render, and that's really making the product look big and bold.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: So again, testing that against a regular photo and testing that against a photo with eye candy added to it.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's not about just one image, right?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's about coming up with multiple ideas and then testing them, running the split test on Amazon as an Amazon experiment and seeing which one wins.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: What we do is we ideate and we come up with two to three different versions for clients.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: We'll test them in PicFu, then we'll understand what people are saying and see if we need to make any final edits.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then once we have a clear winner, we will upload that to an Amazon experiment.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I like the term eye candy.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Look at that Poori, that brand with the link coming.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: I saw that.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, that is so odd.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: But look at you said you said odd.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it you know why you're saying odd though, is because it it caught both of our attention.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I mean by that's what I mean by eye candy.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we don't want something that looks like bad, but in my mind, that's not bad.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually smart.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, you're doing something weird that's like catching my eye, and I'm like, whoa, that's pretty cool.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason why they're doing that is again to aid the shopper, because if it was a like wrapped around the bottle like this, you could not read that.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So what they're doing is they're lifting it in post-edit, right?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they're helping you to be able to read that font, that magnesium.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: What I would do is actually make the word, the, I don't know what it says underneath magnesium.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: See, from here I can't even see it.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's the the liquid test, right?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: But if there's something important that needs to be bigger, I would have enhanced it on that label.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Same, same layout, same everything.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's super so what a creative test to see if this works for them.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then, but all I see is the brand name and the word magnesium.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something else that could be enhanced on here?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: 300 milligrams, 120 capsules, something like that, like a like a circular badge on it, you know.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it sounds like you're big on the post-editing process of not just taking what the packaging is and then putting a lot of like of the labels on top of the packaging.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I see that a lot in especially the supplement space.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I see this brand in particular that's utilizing it right here.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: You see like the new look, same great taste.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Most likely that's not on the packaging, most likely that's like in the post editing where you can put like the servings and everything.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's so much room, like on every single one of these lids, they can do a call out here exactly the same way and say, like, hey, there's 21 servings or whatever it is.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're we're humans, we're visual people.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason why this catches our eye, it's like it's like like it thinks like our eyes like glitch.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's like a glitch in the matrix.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, wait, what's going on here?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh no, this is actually what it what it looks like.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so you might be asking yourself, like, why would they waste that space by saying new look?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's almost like who cares at that point because it's so early on in the buying process, but they know for their customers that are looking for their product, it's not the same thing they're used to seeing.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So they want to just let the client know, hey, it's the same thing, don't worry, right?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: So they're choosing to do that on that main image.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: So again, it goes back to aiding the shopper in their buying experience on Amazon.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they're doing.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and there's so many ways that like these are like the only guys that are using the the pills right here, and like it's even like a really bad, in my opinion, it's like not a very good like pill picture.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a lot of ways.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: Have you tested the difference between a render and an actual picture?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because I can I can tell the difference between these two.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is this is a picture from what I from what it looks like, and then this is a render.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: It seems like the just the render would always do better.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Have you seen it the other way?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think you have to test both because it could be argued that a bad render would perform worse, right?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I've definitely had peers in the supplement space have told me that in some cases renders do not perform better.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to be testing for sure.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because this one looks pretty bad compared to this.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like this one is like way, way better.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: That one looks amazing.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, I mean, look at how it's a straight-on render.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of angle, it's going straight on.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: It has this high gloss effect on the cap.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: I doubt that that cap is that shiny, right?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but it's that it's that high gloss effect that's like drawing your eye away from everything else.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: You could apply that same high gloss effect to the nature made on the left.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: You could absolutely do that, right?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: You could apply, I mean, it looks like they have a slight gloss on the one on the blue one on the right, but again, the blue one on the right, like I almost I can't even see what it says.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the packaging is just not doing it any justice, and they're running ads on that, you know?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanted to get your thoughts.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know this is gonna be so different from so many different clients, but what have you seen that works the best?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Is it the down shot?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Is it the straight on shot, like uh nature made right here?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Or is it like the up angle shot from the by uh the magnesium biglycinate?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: What would you recommend starting out from an A-B test standpoint?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Would you recommend straight on, up, down, or uh done up?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Straight on, straight on, just like Magwell.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Magwell's nailing it right there.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then you would also recommend doing the front and back, and then also the sometimes the box.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: I bet I bet that's an A-B test to test the box and the pill as well.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, pull up Neurogum and look at their main image.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great example of eye candy.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we covered angles, we covered renders, but this is a combination of almost everything I talked about.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um so if we scroll down.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, I this is valuable for me because when I see, I think of um, I forgot what the other mints are called.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think of that like those pack of mints, and I would have not have expected this, by the way.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: So that that's valuable to have this here.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know the 10 cans of like the mints?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm talking about?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was expecting it to be that.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: So that's valuable having that there.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So scroll into uh go down and then click into the Amazon's choice.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh this one?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now look at these two main images.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at um the one under it, you're talking about this one?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you see how they're totally different.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is what I mean by coming up with multiple variants so that you can test, right?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we don't actually know which one's gonna win.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can upload one to an Amazon experiment, that's what you want to be doing.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm curious, how did you choose the order of your infographics?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, why did you go like kind of like the story brand first?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then you kind of went into the elements of what's in it, and then kind of going into some other benefits.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a reasoning behind the order that you went with the infographics?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes there is.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Usually what we're looking for is um like what is it first of all, then um explaining the pieces of it.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: So usually people want to know the ingredients as fast as possible, calling out benefits, and then selling with anything that's gonna build trust, like media mentions, storytelling, that kind of stuff.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: That might not necessarily be the order that they uploaded in, in terms of like what we laid out.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know which what we would have recommended at that time.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's really interesting.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: I really like it, it looks really very clean.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I imagine like having this like big ish text does really, really well on mobile.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so funny that these multi-million dollar brands have never seen their text on mobile before.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: But it's so funny seeing all these brands and they have all these different things, but on mobile, they have never seen their listing on mobile and they don't realize that like you can't read it.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's there's so much text that they can't read it on mobile, these infographics.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the quickest way to tell the story of your product and what it does.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: People aren't going to be going through your bullet points on mobile or going through your titles, like images take up 80% of the screen.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's this big.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't tell that story through your infographics, you're missing out.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a study that actually proves that 90% of what we take in online or anywhere, basically, is visual.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not reading.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's proven.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: We are not reading.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if we are reading, we're not gonna be reading the tiniest little text on the screen.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's for sure.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's for sure.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're reading the big sub, the big heads and the subheads, right?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's actually one of the hardest things to do because you have so many amazing things as a brand owner that you want to say about your brand.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, no, we have to cover this and this and this.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: We have to say all these million things, and they have to know about all these crazy things.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, really, there's only five reasons why they're really searching for your product.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: So let's figure out those top five and let's let's hit home on those.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And like, it's okay to repeat them over and over and be redundant because we want them to get the messaging so they convert, right?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I totally agree.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: And what would you say from an infographic standpoint?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: While we're on the infographic topic, what would you say is another important thing that you usually see that Amazon sellers are doing wrong right now and that they could really improve their infographics and optimize them?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's really good.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the mobile aspect is probably the number one mistake that I see.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: The other mistake I see is just too much information on the screen as opposed to simplifying.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: The third thing I see is just bad design overall.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like really cheesy looking and just kind of just makes you look really amateur when you don't have like polished images.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: At this, at this point, it's like, come on, we're all using iPhones and used to like Apple design.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're like very much primed to have like beautiful, sexy things in our space.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we want to we want to be buying those things when we're buying stuff online.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're pretty, we're willing to pay a little bit more.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's my millennial perspective.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: But that's like if something's pretty, I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm in, you know.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: NeuroBama is pretty, you know, and it's functional, awesome, you know.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I think those are like basic things that you have to be doing, like, you know, the minimum beyond that, when you're looking at things strategy-wise, you need to be doing your competitive analysis to pull what is going on in your set, right?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: What is going on visually?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: What's performing best in terms of best sellers?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then what what are the new and up and coming brands putting out there in terms of content, looking at both and saying, okay, what are the types of insights we can we can learn from this?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Are they all using us versus them?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it even better, right?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Are none of them using this type of image that we know is gonna perform really well?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Let's use this type of image, you know?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Then after that, making sure that you're reviewing the reviews analysis to understand what are the top five things people are saying in a positive way and in a negative way about a few of our competitors, because we can take that knowledge and we can build it into our creatives in a smart way, right?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like one of the best psychological things we can be doing is using other people's words to sell our own product, right?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because the people who are shopping for this are telling us what language they use.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let's reuse it in a smart way in our creatives.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd love to get your thoughts on if someone is just getting started with A B testing on their product main images, what do you think is the best way to kind of get started with it?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say you're a supplement brand and you want to get started with A B testing.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: What would you say are the top three things that they should test right away that's gonna have the highest impact?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: Is it the box?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Is it the angle?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Is it the rendering?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think are gonna be the most high impact things that are gonna change that supplement brand?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's a tough one.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: The one that I've seen have the biggest effect is something that I don't see a lot of people doing.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll give you this like little insider secret tip.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you have any kind of award for your product, if you can make it into like a little circular award badge that looks legit and you put it on top of your packaging, that is so key.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like that shows people that you are legitimate, trustworthy, whatever from search.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh, this one's award winning, you know?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's something that's like an easy pro tip.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of all the other elements we discussed, I don't know.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we've tested like isolating just one.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: We always combine everything.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, like we saw an 11.8% increase in click-through traffic with yes bar, but it was like we did a render, we did the angle, we did the post edit, we did everything, you know, and we just combine all of those things, come up with I think aside from just one element, you need to be thinking of multiple variants.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, think outside the box with your team or with yourself and just think like, okay, what are like five cool things I could show with my main image and just create those five things and test them and see what is performing best.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And once you test one or two of them, I guarantee you if you're doing it in PicFu and you're getting 50 responses, they're telling you what they like and don't like about it.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're gonna be able to look and say, wow, 15 people were asking the same question about it.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: We should mention something about it on the packaging.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think that a way of a value to approach it would probably be like if you're a supplement brand, kind of from what I'm hearing from you, is if you're a supplement brand, having either the front and back on it, either that or the front in the box potentially.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then the second thing would be to have the pills, pills or powder on the outside of what it potentially does, and then some type of credential of saying like gluten free or award or whatever, uh something else on the front on top of the packaging is kind of what I'm hearing the top three most impactful things for a supplement brand.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Did I get that right?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Those are those are all big ones, yeah.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: But again, like if everyone starts doing it, then you have to get even more creative and do something different.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it all starts at looking at.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: What is everyone doing, first of all?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And let's try to do something different.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: The high gloss effect is something that we saw with that brand that we were showing on the screen.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: That high gloss effect is something that I didn't even mention, but it's a slight little tiny piece of eye candy that you're just like, boom, I'm looking over there.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: And what would you say about these companies that are doing the products when it comes down to using AI when with all these different like creatives and things like that?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Where do you see like the AI and creative side really coming into play with all of this?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's really going to change the game of like creating renders and things like that.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: And where do you really see the AI game going with Amazon?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: And where do you think it will go?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that I have my eye on with AI right now is in the past, I've seen a million tools that give you like a score, a grade of your listing.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I do an analysis of the tool.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, for me, all of those tools were kind of BS because they use things like quantifying how many images you have in your product images.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you only have three minus 10 points because you only have three, you know, whereas like they're not looking at the content quality, they're not able to analyze what are these images actually talking about showing and grade them against other quality images that are either in e-commerce in general or on Amazon specifically, in that category specifically, or not.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the most exciting thing for me of being able to understand like a true analysis of where a client is today and how far they can possibly get creative-wise based on using AI technology.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I really see like an AI that was able to get the sales data on the back end from like a helium 10 and then combining it with what's happening on the front end of what the main image is could go a long way.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, if you're in the dog food category, what particular dog is doing the best?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a Golda Retriever?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a German Shepherd?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever it may be, and like analyzing that would be really and finding those patterns would be really, really interesting.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then being able to say, like, okay, on average, the best sellers are doing all of these five things right.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: So these are these are the five things that you need to be doing right, right?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's like less quantitative and more qualitative.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's the the problem with the tools we have today, and that's the solution that AI is going to be able to provide.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I totally agree with that.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: And going to like any tips and tricks for premium A plus content in storefront, what are some tips that you have there?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, I have so many good tips.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, let's start with storefronts because that's kind of like my favorite right now.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: We just did a post on LinkedIn sharing like one of our storefronts, and and people went nuts over it because what we like to do is use background videos.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: And with background videos, I feel like most people are not using them, but they're so easy to use.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you can use content that you already have, create really easy content in like Canva to make your what was a static landing page be like a moving regular web page, right?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: So think of like gifts or things moving on the screen of a landing page.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's what you can do now with background videos, but most people don't realize that it's just a looping video that appears like a gif when it's running.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: No clicking, nothing.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's just something moving on the screen in a loop and it has to be less than 20 seconds.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: So um, we were able to work with a brand called Champagne Fabulous, um, where they have these amazing pool floats, and we're able to like animate the champagne bottles floating across the screen, have people in the pool dancing with their legs, and and it's just such a fun, fun way to go from just a basic, boring.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Most oftentimes storefronts on Amazon are ugly, right?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're using a bunch of Amazon modules, but Amazon themselves released a ton of data saying that when you use custom imagery on storefront, your storefronts are naturally going to increase your sales.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of what we lean into is making sure that we're using custom imagery throughout.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this is a brand that just is like over the top and they wanted over the top everything.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we were like, okay, we'll just go, we'll go with it.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's that's that's what I recommend for storefronts.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and I will say it's actually an easy thing to do to repurpose content they already have.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you can use UGC content, you can pull um B-roll from stock imagery sites, you can create moving images with Canva.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: So take your imagery that you already have, drop it into Canva and create animations with one click, save them as a video, and then upload it as a back video.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's really actionable.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: That you can really just take any image and make it a GIF of some type and then really just put it on your storefront.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: And now you have a super engaging storefront that you can use.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you want to be using other modules, like you want to be using shoppable imagery both on your storefront and in premium A plus content.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: You want to be having full scale videos on both as well.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: There are best practices, right?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's limitations on both of what we can and can't do.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like we don't have background videos on premium A plus content.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: But what I love about premium A plus content and storefronts is rather than thinking about it in the Amazon modules, we like to think about it in terms of a landing page.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: So if you were gonna create a beautiful landing page top to bottom for a brand in your dream world, what would it look like?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then how do you make that work with the modules that Amazon gives you, right?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Or make it even better with the Amazon modules.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's the way we kind of look at it.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Most most people are looking at it the opposite way.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's try to take our content and like shove it in there and make it work on Amazon.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's so true.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: And do you have any other insights for A plus content or premium A plus content?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: Any insights there?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: A plus content, what we do is stackable.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: We use just one banner stacked five times to create that landing page effect.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna be seamless, it's gonna have margins in between, but it it gets the job done to make it look like a scroll-stopping landing page.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then at the bottom, we usually anchor with like an SEO module that's gonna have three or four images with some text underneath.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then at the bottom, we always recommend that clients set up a comparison grid.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that's just like best practices that we use.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then for premium A plus content, we're trying to use all the things.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: So all the things that take up the most amount of space.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we're using static banners, we're using shoppable banners, we're using carousels, we're using full-scale video.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're not using an SEO module because with premium, you have more options for back-end keywords when you're uploading your content.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't necessarily think you need a like a section dedicated to like having three images with text underneath.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's just my personal opinion.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously anchoring with some sort of comparison grid for sure.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have an example brand that you referenced that just does a lot of things right?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like we could be talking, we could be talking about A content, main images.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love to share something on the screen of an example brand that just does a lot of things right.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: I usually use Anchor for my examples, like uh anchor the battery uh portable charger.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: But I didn't know if you had a brand or any like any examples that kind of just do a lot of things right.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: It could even be yours.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like it could be biased, like it could be okay.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm just trying to think of so I think like with every brand that we kind of idolize, there's always things that I'm like, uh, I wouldn't necessarily use this as like the best case because there's things that I would change.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just trying to think of one or like let me think of a good one.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Let's look at your anchor example because I'm curious.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go to let's go to anchor and I want to see what you think and how you would optimize an anchor battery charger.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's interesting.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because uh and honestly, I've never met someone so passionate about uh A plus content, uh, or I mean uh just like uh product page content in general, but I love it.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely love it.
• 29:28
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• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I'm sharing my screen right now, and this is the anchor battery charger that I typed in.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: So just uh I'm I'm showing you just the other references of what other things look like.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of the same like 3D product rendering that you can see here, but it's kind of like this is the one I'm talking about 83,000 reviews.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: This is the main one.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just uh let's start out by just typing in battery charger and let's see what pops up and let's see how they differ.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna type in cell phone battery charger.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: How did this become your favorite example?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, because even in the Amazon consulting world, like this is kind of like what we would do as from like an infographic standpoint, they do a pretty good job, they do their title well when it comes to the organization of the title, they do their bullet points well, um, they have good A plus content and premium A plus content, things like that.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's like like I've always used this like my entire life, so I've never really like looked at anything else to be 100% honest.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: But I love to like pick this apart and say, like, hey Victor, here's what like obviously they need to be using like square images and things like that, but I love to pick this apart and see what you would optimize here.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think these are actually optimized uh in time in terms of height.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're a little bit taller for mobile.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably why they did it that way.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: If if we go down to the A plus content though, I couldn't see that one.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what this is.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's brand story.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to make brand story looks good, look good.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: It always looks like janky.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, I saw a really interesting use case for uh brand story the other day, which was um using UGC content inside of those cards that you scroll through.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a carousel.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: So imagine if all of those were somebody holding your supplement or holding like different colors of your coffee mug, being like, I love my coffee mug, you know.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And in the text, they were actually putting the testimonials in the text, but without the quotes.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it looks like a statement, but it's actually a testimonial, which is like getting around the whole no testimonials on Amazon thing.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: I I like how they did the four, they really did it smart with the whole four thing right here.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: They these are four separate images and they combined it all into one.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's really smart how they did that.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but yeah, like there's all looks like there's a lot of ways to like approach the brand story.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is there any other ways you would optimize this page or anything that you would focus on?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't see the A plus content.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Can you just like pause it on the main?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it looks like are you can you zoom in on your screen?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're are you at 100% right now?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: I am at 175 now.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, let's go to just 100%.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just curious.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you want me to go to 100%?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, yeah.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is what it looks like at 100%.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Basic A plus content.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm surprised they don't have premium.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first thing.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing is I I think this is like a good example of just like minimal design in the tech space.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that a lot like tech or science-y products require just a little bit more SEO or explanation in their content.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's probably why they have all that text at the bottom.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: For most other categories, though, it's not necessary.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't need to use all of that tech space in that kind of way because most people are not going to read that much stuff about your brand.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: For people that are searching for very technical products, they need to know very specific things.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's why they're listing it out that way.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I did I did like how they like put the 10,000 uh milliamps and things like that.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: I did like how they put that up here.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then like the little color symbol things, I like that as well.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: I would say yeah.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Trying to think of like a really good example.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Neurogum's product images are probably one of my favorites that we've ever done.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in terms of like premium A plus content, we have some that are coming out soon that I can't talk about yet that are gonna be incredible.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: But for the moment, I think Neurogum's a good example of what I would use.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like they have like really good like front images, they have really good infographics, good titles, and honestly, even the variations are very well designed as well.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: They're not like confusing or anything.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, one of my favorite brands that I haven't looked at in a while.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Can you pull up Tushy?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, how do you spell that?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's got S-H-Y.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a bidet, um, and they have killer marketing and branding.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's a taboo product, right?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: So they lean into like humor.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: They used to have amazing A plus content, and they're the ones that like started doing the landing page style before I'd seen anybody doing it.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was really creative use of A plus content.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious if they're still doing it or what they're doing.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that's their brand story.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Funny they are.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: That is like the very first image you saw made you laugh.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's how you know they're doing something right.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's probably no, I think it's probably on the wall, like as a sticker, and he's covering it with his body by mistake.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um scroll down.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: So they're leading with a comparison grid, which is interesting because they have multiple products now.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see the rest of it.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: QA.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: So people must ask a lot of questions about their product.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I know that they are very intentional with the way that they're organizing their content.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: When they first started doing the landing page style, the way that they laid out their content was exactly answering the top questions about this type of product in the industry in that exact order.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like, let's say 150 people were asking, how easy is this to use?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: That was the first thing on the screen.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: And let's say another like 50 people were asking, like, how do you clean it?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: That was the second sec or how do you install it?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: That was the second thing on the screen.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like they had things in a very specific order based on what the review results were saying in the category overall.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I liked the responses that like you could you get it straight from the water.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you say if you yeah, if you want some funny comments, go read their comments.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: It'll make your day.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: People who buy this product buy it because they love the humor of the brand and and they are just as funny and witty.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: And in the comments, it shows.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: That is so funny.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, that is awesome.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: That yes, these are actually hilarious.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: They must train their customer service to be just as see, these people are building a brand, like to like to take that time.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know that they're actually like they're very, uh, very clever with the way they talk.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Very funny.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, and is there anything else that's been top of mind that you've been wanting to communicate that you like you see either a lot of Amazon sellers doing wrong, they could be doing better?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: What do you see?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: What are some recommendations that you have for other people out there?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Great question.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think we covered a lot of it.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: The top things, just to recap, were having your images be mobile first.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's number one.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Over 60% of shoppers are searching on Amazon via mobile.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to remember that as well.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at it on your desktop and you're not clicking and zooming in and you are having trouble like reading, then that's a sign.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you're looking at it on your phone and you have trouble reading, that's a sign that you need to increase the font size.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that being said, reducing the amount of content on the screen is also just as important because you can't be telling people 50 things at once, right?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: So really try hard to pick out your five big things, have a clear header and a clear subheader.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing I like to do is to make sure that every image is serving a function.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the biggest mistakes that I see that we didn't talk about yet is the fact that people upload pretty lifestyle images, but they don't.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: So they're showing beautiful things, but they're not telling anything beautiful.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: You need to show and tell at the same time.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: So every image needs to serve a function.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Showing a flat lay of some ingredients next to your packaging is pretty, but it does nothing for the customer, right?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like it shows the customer that you know how to take a pretty photo and put it on Instagram, but it doesn't tell the customer what they need to know in order to buy your product with Amazon.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to remember that that's where things are different between Shopify and Amazon.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Amazon, you have less time to make a decision.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to say the five things you need to say as fast as possible and as clear and concise and visually driven as possible.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: So all of that is really hard to do, but it's, you know, over time, it doesn't have to be all or nothing.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can figure these things out little by little over time.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: You should always be testing.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably the number one lesson that people should take away from this overall, is it's not about one and done.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's about always testing, right?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like we help brands like level up their look on Amazon, but we're giving them multiple main images, we're giving them multiple titles so they can test those.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're giving them multiple modules in A plus content so they can be testing the layout, right?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: You saw Tushy wasn't even using a conventional layout anymore.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: They're probably in the middle of testing, moving the comparison grid, moving this here, and waiting two weeks and then seeing if that impacts conversion.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are the kinds of things that like you need to be doing.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about just fixing the beautiful stuff on your listing, which we like to work on, but it's taking it to that next level to always be tweaking it.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: But before we end it, I want to end with this question is how long is a reasonable test for most brands?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because, like you said, you're doing like a million things.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're changing the listing like crazy.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so many variables like spend, like all these things when it impacts like conversion rate and the amount of sales that you get.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, what is a reasonable length of testing time to making sure it's not just seasonality, if there was a spike in like an influencer?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: What is a good reasonable time to test for most brands?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really great question.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: It really depends on your traffic, right?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, like brands that are doing a high volume of traffic, they can get results manually in two weeks just by making the change, looking at the data and making a decision and then changing it back or keeping it if it worked, right?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't have a lot of traffic, then sometimes just doing an Amazon experiment and letting it run until statistical significance and then having auto-publish is the way to go.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes brands don't have that amount of time and they don't want to sit and wait on their thumbs for that's one thing I wish Amazon would improve is giving that data faster or letting brands pay to push traffic to see if their content is working better or not, right?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: But those are the two ways that you can do it.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: I always benchmark it against 90 days and take out any outliers.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if Prime Day fell in the middle of your last 90 days, take out that chunk of spike, right?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And do an average across the past 90 days and then compare that against your two-week um period if you're pulling manual results, or compare it against your Amazon experiment results.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's really amazing.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, also I will say we've done a ton of testing with Amazon experiments um and we work with agency partners that use Amazon experiments a ton with our content.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: And in both cases, both with the agency partners and with our own clients, we have seen that title testing with Amazon experiments is showing inconclusive results.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's basically telling us that our titles are not better, and then we put the title live and the title does perform better.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I wouldn't necessarily bank on the Amazon experiment data for when it comes to title testing.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: With main image testing, we've seen it to be true.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really interesting.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's very valuable.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, that's all we have time for today.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: I know we can go on for this for seven more hours.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: We did not end up doing a uh sing duet, so we didn't get there, but maybe next time.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: But Daniela, thank you so much for coming on.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: Please tell the audience how to find you, how to get in contact with you, and everything else like that.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can find me at mindfulgoods.co.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're also on TikTok, we're also on LinkedIn.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um sign up for our newsletter and get all kinds of awesome creative tips from us and case studies and the latest and greatest stuff that we're putting out onto Amazon.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you want me or my team to look at your listing and give you all the things that we recommend changing, whether you work with us or not, we have a mini audit on our website.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's$150.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's a steal, it's probably worth 10 times that.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: So highly recommend taking advantage of that.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's at mindfulgoods.co.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: Daniela, thank you so much for joining.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you everyone for watching.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: We will catch you next time.