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Brain training for professionals · Mental Health Matters

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to Mental Health Matters with me, Dr.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Audrey Tanning.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm me, Judith Cosmone.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we have special guest brain coach Yaya Kollellerin with us today.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to Mental Health Matters.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Great to have you back on Sunday.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: Love it in.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: We are talking about brain training because this is your area of expertise, but also we want to think about whether it's actually just for elite athletes.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is something that I know this is what we talked about last time.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about it in the context of sport because that's your your area of focus.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we can all benefit from a little bit of I don't know.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: What sort of things could we or should we be doing every day, maybe?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we we can talk, we can have a little exercise at the end.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: So there's little things that can improve our thinking.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if we were to do brain training regularly, because you know you get these apps and things, what does it do in there?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: So the brain is the same, even if like an elite athlete or a professional or student or something, so the brain works in the same way for everyone.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, brain training is understand how your brain works and how to use it properly to unlock like a full potential.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: In in the sport field is about performing at your best when it matters most for a professional is performing in your career for a student is about like studying and doing exams.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: So it's definitely understanding how your brain works and how to use it to achieve the goals that you have.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is a really cheeky question.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: But do you ever look at someone and go, You're not using the full potential of your brain?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: Most of the time there are there are so many like mental limits that we have, right?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: And uh when when I discovered this uh like brain training or the uh the training that I've done, uh that was my like motivation, like understand what can I do with my brain to achieve like go beyond some like the average uh or some mental limits that I created on my own in my past.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: So that was my motivation to discover how I can I can do it, I can I can use it even if I'm not an athlete.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I see I I like this, and this is it's one of those things that's kind of challenging.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, can can I use my brain even more so?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: But do you think, Jude, there's there's every point where you just kind of go, do you know what?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care if I'm not using it all.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's fine.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes, yeah, because I think sometimes I mean I'm an overthinker, you know, that's a nice one.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and sometimes I wish I could just switch my brain off, you know, and not use it.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and I find that impossible to do that.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: So actually that might be quite that might be quite interesting to know if we can use it to to tone our brain down because mine's like a washing machine on fast spin all of the time.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: So what happens when someone's like that?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so we we I don't think we can definitely turn off our brain.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: It keeps alive.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like tile it down, maybe but we can manage like that in terms of overthinking.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, when we say overthinking, it's just so many thoughts that are running in the same time in our head, right?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: So there are so many strategies that we can use, even like the journal that we spoke during last time.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: But there is an exercise that it's very useful if just sometimes we want to slow down a little bit.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: Just the time that you have to take to write down.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: It requires effort and uh it helps you to slow down a little bit.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: So there are so many strategies in that case that if you can you can kind of get strategies to do both ways, then yeah.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Which is nice, and that really brings us on to the first um question with what do elite athletes know about brain training that I'm missing, you know?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: What is it that they're able to do that I I could be doing, or maybe I can't, maybe I need to learn to do it, and then it needs to become a habit.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think that uh what athletes uh understand uh compared to most people is the influence that your brain and your mindset have on your uh result.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think because it's easy for them because we we see a performance.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: So in in a sport, in um uh physical performance, you can actually see what's happening there.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: So something that maybe sometimes in our career, in our relationship, we cannot like see in the same way.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: So definitely that's something that they can recognize and uh in a positive and a negative way, so especially when the performance doesn't fit the expectation, doesn't match the expectation.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: In that case, they can understand because it's something that they physically trained a lot.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: So when during a competition they don't have that standard that they have in training, in that case they understand that okay, it's a mental limit or it's uh uh challenge that is coming from my brain.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so this is the first thing that I think that is important to understand.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like we talk about mindset, uh, well-being, mental health a lot, uh, also on social media, but I don't think that we really understand what does mean that your mind shapes uh your results and your reality because it's actually like this as an athlete can change uh completely their performance, we can do it the same thing with our life, our results.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you said something really interesting there.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when an athlete does it, it's often because they have achieved that or as close to that in practice.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if they suddenly push it just with a bit of adrenaline, that's normal to them.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: But otherwise, I will sit there and go, Oh, why didn't I swim 10 k when actually I've swum one cognitive?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the the gap between expectation and reality is huge for me, and I think we do need to get that that athletes, people who actors who've they've rehearsed, they've practiced, they've put the effort in.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: So when they say there is a mental block here, that's true.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: For us, I don't know whether it is, it might just be a practice block.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you just didn't do enough.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, with that, is peak performance really about training harder or is it about training smarter?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely training smarter and uh like definitely, but I I don't want to take for granted this because I think it is uh such an important question, because I still meet so many athletes, uh students or professional that who believe that to achieve more they need to do more or do it harder.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: That is true, but it depends.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: So if I give you an image, uh if you try to open like a jar and turn the lid in the wrong way, I mean you can try harder, you can push more and get frustrated, but it will never open.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: But as soon as you turn the lid on the other side, it opens easily.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: And performance for me works at the same.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: If you're not achieving your goals, uh, if you're not achieving the result that you want or that you know you can achieve, it's because something is missing, something is wrong.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we need to change something.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't make sense train uh training harder or doing the same thing, just more and harder.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: There is something that we need to change.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, big performance is a state and something that you can achieve when mind and body are very um connected and working together.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: And uh the way that I train my athletes is very structured because you have to like follow a plan, uh, like a training, a progress training, and uh it's not just doing more, uh put a lot of effort also, but especially of a strategy, understand what is work for you, what is work for your brain, and uh match that things with the goals that you have.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that sounds it sounds very logical, you know, when you say it like that.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um I suppose doing it isn't just so easy, but that's why you're there to to kind of guide them on their way.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think just based on that, a lot of people think if I just keep doing it again and again and again, I will get better at it.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like no, I think you've got to do other things as well, and that will come differently.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, top athletes obviously if things go wrong, they've got to be able to recover like that, whereas we might just sit on the floor and go, oh no, they can't do that.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so for example, you were talking about the skater earlier.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: So the skater that you know who missed a jump, how is he going to not sit there and go, oh no, I've done it all wrong?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: How is he just gonna be able to snap like that, just get on with it and do the rest of the routine?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: The jumps, exactly, but you know, you miss one, yeah.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I must I'm not an athlete, but you you think, oh no, I messed that one up.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, watching the Olympics, I I noticed so many of these patterns.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: It was really interesting.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: I I actually have an example of the positive one and the skater is like in a negative way, unfortunately.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, but the the frisky uh champion uh, yeah, that girl I think is a better example of what does it mean to train your brain and use it to perform and to win that level.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: So uh during the uh selection she basically crushed at the first uh trial and uh in the first second, so the score was very very low, and uh then just after a few minutes she had to do the second attempt, and during the second one she did her personal best.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: So even after that huge mistake, yes, uh it can cost like the medal, but in the second one she basically reset and uh she talked about this during an interview saying that she found um airflow again in order to perform during the second uh attempt.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: And uh well in the brain, in the moment when you make a mistake, your amygdala, so it's like the the alarm that we have in the brain fires.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: So start to release cortisol, and when we have a lot of cortisol in our brain, the prefrontal cortex that is the part that can like make good decisions and work like the thinking brain, uh start to become less available.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: So performing with the level of cortisol is not useful for the performance, and uh she definitely trained that, she definitely trained the ability to come down to reset the nervous system to be able to perform like almost forgetting the mistake and just do it again and uh thanks for that.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: She got a medal with just basically one good jump with a huge result, and it's something different from the the the skaters that in that case it's a shame.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: But looking at the final and the uh the the selection, the performance was totally different.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: L1 baton is winning, but in the moment the pressure and the expectations and it choked basically, even if physically he was very very prepared for that.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean he was really young, but at the same time, also high le at a high level we can find these mental challenges sometimes and uh the pressure that can gain against us.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's so interesting.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, talking about pressure then, what does that do to the brain?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: And even if you're really highly trained, um, how can that affect the brain?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so as I said, it's not something that uh no no one is immune to the pressure.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's not something that we can eliminate.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: What we can do is train our brain to respond to in a certain way, so in a way that is useful to don't choke and be able to perform even under the pressure, and uh more than a psychological thing, I think that is more uh biological, so it's a biological response of your brain, as I said.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: The amygdala just send your body in alert mode and with the cortisol, the adrenaline uh into your body, your prefrontal cortex.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: There is an um an interesting metaphor uh from a book of David David Rock that talks about the prefrontal cortex as a stage in a small theater, okay?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: And the informations are the actors on the stage.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: So on this stage is where we have the attention during the day or during a performance.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: So the actors can be uh information from the outside world or the inner world, so thoughts, emotions, and it's a small stage, so your prefrontal cortex cannot handle so many information at the same time.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, in that moment when pressure hits, on that stage there are negative thoughts, uh, fear, so all the actors that are not good for your performance.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: So be able to manage the moment to direct like the stage is what we can learn with uh brain training, with the techniques that allow to calm down your nervous system, balance uh the sympathetic and parasympathetic system.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: So it's trainable, but it is there, nobody is immune to the pressure.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great analogy.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's brilliant.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Just before we go to a break, um I wanted to ask about this this idea of training because I know what I do is a very cognitive thing of all right, I'm just not gonna think about that.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing I can do, so park it.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell those actors to get off the stage.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's quite an active thing, but I know other people, breathing or sort of nervous system work, that makes a difference.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is one healthier than the other or are they all part of managing?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think that there are different strategies.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and for someone can work better like self-talk exercise, for someone else can work better the brief exercise.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: When we talk about breathing, uh that's something that is connected with your physical body.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: So if we try to talk with ourselves, it's useful and is a practice, but at the same time, it's not like a real thing that connected your nervous system with your body.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: Brief exercise is powerful for that reason, it's like a bridge between uh nervous system and and body.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so it's it's you actually do know it when you're sort of self-using the self-talk, it's it's a feeling.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is a really fascinating conversation.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: We are going to uh come back after a clip of last time Yaya was on the show.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: And this is something that I always ask to my athlete, like, why do you do it?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: And most of the time the the of the answer is uh because I want to represent my country.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I think that when you choose that kind of responsibility, pressure not really goes.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: So because the country can be quite mean.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, or yes, they're they they're quick to support, but they're really clear quick to put down.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it's uh huge pressure, and uh what I do is uh I I help athletes build brain skills that allow them to perform freely even under that pressure that most of the time is enormous.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: So we I like to say that I train their brain at the same level that they do with their body.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Mental Health Matters.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: We are talking about brain training and whether we as lay people can do the same as elite athletes, and brain coaching by the other believes that we can.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: There are things that we can do to use more of our brain, which we're not doing at the moment.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um now let's get a little bit psychological in it here.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: What happens in the brain when we try to break old patterns like doubt, like procrastination?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the things that we've maybe habitually done, and we even call ourselves a procrastinator.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: So that's that's a big question.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yes.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: And uh so imagine the old pattern lives in the brain as uh like uh neural highways.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, they are fast, they are efficient, and lot like your brain loves them because they uh save energy.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: And uh the the part of the brain that is uh responsible of this thing is the basal ganglia.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: This part of the brain basically wants to make everything more efficient.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: So try to make patterns, uh routines, habits automatic to save more energy because every time that we use the prefrontal cortex, we it requires more energy because it's uh a thinking part of the brain.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: With the Bazakanga, we create something that is automatic, okay, more like an habit or a pattern.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: And uh that's uh brilliant when it's something that works for like tasks like brushing your teeth or uh driving uh from work to home.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: But it's brutal when that thing is with a self-doubt or a negative uh thoughts, a negative self-belief, because it works in the same way, right?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but it's different if it's different outcomes or believing that you're not good enough, yeah.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: So it's um it's uh quite brutal.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but what happened?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh every time that we try to break the old pattern, uh imagine uh every time that we cross a field, okay.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: So if you cross a field one time, you barely live.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: If you cross it a hundred times, you can see a visible button.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: If you cross it a thousand times, you created like you have created a deep groove.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: That is our buttons in the brain, like like this.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: So every time that we try to break the buttons, we basically want to create a new butt.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: And we need to put effort in that because your brain wants to just follow the easy one, something that is like you repeated for a long time.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: So if we want to create a new pathway, we need to put a little bit of effort and uh use our prefrontal cortex to consciously um choosing something different, yes, so it's it's a bit hard, but at the same time uh it's uh it's a trainable skill.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, that's why we say that your brain is wired by repetition.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because it's it's how you create an habit, how you create uh a positive or a negative behavior that you use.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: So on that, are there some beliefs or habits or behaviors that are easier to create new patterns for than others?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, are they commonplace?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so something like procrastination, is that gonna be difficult for everybody, or is it maybe for that person it's procrastination?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: For another person it might be attention seeking, for another person it might be overgiving or something like that.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, it's um there are some habits hardest to break.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: The hardest to break are the ones that are tied to a strong emotional rewards.
• 21:20
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um if we think about like scrolling or uh smoking, yeah, habits where sometimes can become an addiction.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: In that case, um that kind of uh habits are something that create dopamine, like a very fast dopamine hits in the brain.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: So it's easy for the brain to remember that pleasure and easy to to do it.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's then it becomes an addiction.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um but at the same time uh is um is uh trainable, so we can change any addiction or something, some require more.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: time or effort.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: Procrastination då is uh an interesting one.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: Before to talk about specifically about procrastination, I think that the main thing, the main mistake, the common mistake that people do when try to break an abit is attaching the the habit, the behavior to the identity.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Ah yes I am a procrastinator.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yes yes I am a smoker.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes I am thinking be that because that's taking my identity away not my way of thinking away.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah yes yeah yeah if we think that that characteristic is part of us it's very difficult for your brain to think that you can change that makes sense.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you think that you are an overthinker you will never try to change that things.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's you yeah so the first rule for every habit every behavior negative behavior that we want to change is start to detach yourself from that behavior.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's a behavior I'm not a procrastinator I procrastinate I often procrastinate I do sometimes these things that's the first step.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: If you start to realize there is an actual a behavior that is outside of your person on the actual delete the the the habit and change it with a with another one.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: So for procrastination specifically after that you detach from that identity an interesting thing is commit to an action that you used to procrastinate for at least 120 seconds for two minutes.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah because it's like a very short time your brain will not fight with you to say okay come on it's two minutes you can do it for two days.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: And once that you are doing that action for two minutes you will probably carry it on because you are in the momentum.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's an interesting trick for a creature trick I love that I love that to do something different for two minutes because that's just enough time for the brain to kind of go oh this is new before it starts kicking into why we're doing this.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good idea and it's similar to if you're really worried about going somewhere or being you know going into a a social situation.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: If you tell yourself I'm just gonna go for half an hour and then you end up staying three hours it's a similar sort of thing that's really interesting isn't it yeah so what happens if somebody manages to kind of follow follow that and and kind of get over that but then they slip back into old habits what then what happens yeah so it's no is a very common thing because talking about like remember the the the deep groove that we we talk about that old pattern are still there.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: Every time that you create a new one it doesn't like eliminate the old ones.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: They're still there.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: What we do is create a new one and choosing like and working training to build a stronger enough pathway new pathway that can replace the old one but it's um it's common that sometimes especially when we are tired when we are stressed when we are hungry every time that we are in a different emotional state from like a normal base fell into the the old one because it's a defensive mode of the brain.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: So trying to save energy and if the new pathways are not strong enough then your brain will always try to follow the the cheapest route in terms of energy.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: But it's it's it's common it's not a failure is not like a mistake it can happen in that case when up happens with my athletes the first suggestion is as soon as possible just go back to the to the new one and try to reinforce more and more that path we try to work again and again and again on that groove and just keep going with that with no judgment.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: We are human so we can can pour sometimes I think the whole analogy of pathways and almost thinking the way that your brain's setup is like the motorway and then all these other things and new pathways it makes so much sense to understand it because when I'm tired I'm gonna take the motorway it's faster it's quicker I'm gonna get home soon enough even though the other pathway may be really pretty and I like doing it and and so on.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: But you're absolutely right once you've done that you can tell it yourself remember the other way it's pretty it's 90 and then you do get used to doing it again I think that that metaphor really helps me kind of understand what's going on because the motorway hasn't closed yeah you've just created a different route yeah that's a really a really good really good way of thinking about it.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah um so what happens in the brain when somebody goes into overwhelm um and can you get can you get yourself out of that as well?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: Using the metaphor I think that that that's uh quite good to to explain the situation every time that we feel overwhelmed it's because our prefrontal cortex is trying to focus uh and pay attention on so many things at the same time but as we said the stage is very small yeah so your brain cannot focus on so many things at the same time and in that case it becomes um hard to prioritize to make good decisions because it is no it's not a good moment for your prefrontal cortex so it is less available and in that case is the same thing.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: If your prefrontal cortex is less available it means that a system like limbic system amygdala and the treat response of your brain is working instead of the prefrontal cortex and in that case every decision every problem that you want to solve in that moment you're not using the good part of your brain just the good part so it's um my advice in that case is try to recognize when you are in that state where you're not in in a good state to make decision to solve problem because it's the first step.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: If you understand when you are in a good state to make the the right decision it's it's good and then it's it's useful also is a is an exercise recognize what are the little cues to see okay when that happened I know that I'm start feeling overwhelmed so I can just take a step back and before it's too late.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it's the bit before isn't it because if we go back to the motorway versus the new route that we've gone on it's not actually at the point you're on the motorway or the new route it's actually before that.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's the decision of I'm really fed up I need to get home quickly that's the moment you need to catch yourself bef before you then go the easy way but that's that's hard because it almost triggers a whole I guess when your flood your prefrontal cortex is flooded with cortisol it triggers all kinds of instinctual actions and then you want to just get rid of you know finish it all quickly.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: So that is that is hard that is hard how do you take how do you teach someone to catch that is is uh literally a training thing so try to stay in your mind yes and be able to recognize every time that you are making a decision in a wrong situation or every time that you notice that you have the negative thoughts training that the ability to recognize to spot the thoughts yeah is the first thing.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Once that you start to understand what are your buttons then you start to make a different decision to start to build the new the new highway yeah gosh there's so much and it takes work this takes work but the benefits are huge if you're willing to put the effort in and I think that's the key thing to remember um we're gonna keep Yaya but we're gonna be back after a clip of last time Yaya was on the show.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: We can definitely use the visualization that we just practice it is three minutes, four minutes of visualization that definitely allow you to feel good emotion.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: So in that case just apply it and do it five minutes per day and it will be useful to you know create more build your confidence and feel good emotion at least five minutes a day that is always uh a good point.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to Mental Health Matters where we're having a really really interesting conversation with the IR about brain framing therapy session isn't it yes um yeah it's brilliant because there's so much that we as non-athletes can take from this as well so yeah we're really enjoying this discussion um how can you get somebody to change their internal critics so the one that says oh you always mess things up you can't do anything right etc for the overwhelm isn't it we've never got the pathway we've got the bit we've and then we've got the bit that causes the the defensiveness in the first place.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes it definitely comes alongside the overwhelm doesn't it yeah so the first thing that I I would like to say is uh the inner criticism does it is not our enemy so it I essentially start because our brain wants to protect us yeah from uh fear from uh failure uh or um being exposed so it starts as a defensive mode in a sense but at the same time I I I can understand the building the path that is negative uh as uh I I always mess things up or I'm not good enough then it becomes something that it works against you because it's a a voice that you hear all the time in your mind.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: And that's something that good news we can train.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Bad news it requires effort as you said before and uh a lot of training because if you think about uh maybe repeating your mind for like 20 years uh I'm not good enough or uh I always miss things up you cannot just wake up one day and say okay I'm amazing I'm the best it works with repetition you can start building new uh pathway new belief like that but it's not an it's not a magic trick it is a training and it requires a certain effort based on the old pattern that you have so for everyone is is different uh also depends on the age so maybe the train uh youngest brain is easy sometimes because they have less ears behind them they they build something uh positive or negative but in a shorter time so as soon as we start with this thing uh with brain training uh better is for uh your future uh and I think with that it's good to recognize that you're training your brain from a very young age in other words your parents are potentially training your brain so a lot of this when you're talking about the defensive pattern you're gonna mess it up you're not good enough that's not necessarily your voice but if someone has constantly said that to you it's become your defence your safety mechanism to not try because actually it means you won't get the criticism from the people who are your caregivers if you don't bother trying because they've told you that the whole time and so if we then understand that as adults we are training brains or as people in any interaction we are potentially training brains either training them to think in a certain way or training them to think out of a certain way I think suddenly we realise oh my gosh there's a huge responsibility in being a human being and seeing other human beings.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's very true.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Parents teachers they have a great responsibility because young people it they they wire their brain based on what they list around them so it is a huge responsibility and I I would like also to bring more awareness on that because if you are the first the first one that you do on yourself then you can also like teach to yes your like children or your uh if you are a teacher or if you are a professor you can transmit the that things that are that information so it's um it's some very important things though I hear I say I think that the it's a shame that the government haven't consulted you over the whether to stop social media and smartphones for young children because they're kind of being very woolly about that and if they could just hear what you just said that that what people take in at such a young age are creating these pathways and it's I just think it's so important people don't give it enough credit you know so it's so it it just makes you think that words have an impact and actions have an impact and people yeah people people in that kind of position need to be really aware of that and so yeah so important yeah that inner uh voice uh I I always say to my athletes is is the only one that you hear all the time and it speaks with you a thousand times per day right so it needs to become your first one I like to say it needs to be on your side it needs to be not just positive but like not uh a cheerleader do something but some someone that have trust in your ability and can just work and play with you yeah yeah it's a good way good way of thinking about it.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think um anyone listening could do what's one mental habit that that we could all do that would upgrade us if we practiced it so if if I have to choose one uh setting an intention at the at the beginning of your day okay it's uh it's one of the uh one of the exercises that I use for a long time in my morning routine so when I used to apply my my strategy and uh it's about it's not about goals it's not about task uh productivity act when I say intention I mean the quality that you want uh to bring to that day so if you think about the goals that you have the person that you want to become the athlete that you want to become what is something that you can focus on today in order to do a little step closer to the goals and it's useful because during the day everything can happen and we cannot control all the things strike uh delays but if we have an intention that is good for us to get closer to the the things that we want you have always something to remember and to refocus on every time that something negative happens.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes and it's useful to have a good quality of life and in in my in my journey was very very useful for building my career and my my journey.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: What sort of intentions might one set actually because I think when we talk about setting intentions what some people say is I don't know today I'm going to be a go getter I don't know they they're a bit they they they're not speaking to values perhaps they're just a bit more today with a smile at everyone yeah what came to my mind was patience I need to be a bit more patient but that's a value that's quite is that is that is that not the kind of thing that you're thinking yes yes so one things that you can do to to choose the good intention is ask yourself okay what do I need to achieve the goals that I have that that dream that uh standard that level uh I need to be more passionate yes I want to focus I I want to be more passionate today or uh I want to feel grateful yeah that that was mine for example I want to feel grateful for what I have every day thinking about that things even if negative things happen my focus was always okay let me be grateful for what I have and that is an intention it depends as I said on the goal that you have and uh what you want to focus on that's that's beautiful it's about yeah it's about that value it's about something a little bit more personal rather than practical I suppose yes yeah because yeah that makes sense so when it comes to high performance whether we're talking leaders whether we're talking athletes or just people in general who are winning at life is it do you think it's a natural talent because again all of us are born differently is it skill because we've been brought up differently is it brain training because we've understood that we're not using all that parts of our all the different parts of our brain or is it strategy you know it's just some people are just really good at playing the game they've got it okay for for me a talent is the entry ticket okay so understanding whether if you can do that things or not.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yes there are athletes there are people that have a talent for something specifically but after that so when we start to um thinking about the high level um talent is not enough talent is just at the beginning then it's about training physically so in terms of um in the sport sport wise physically and mentally but also if you think about as a professional learning skills uh learning new like something that are useful in your job in your career uh if you ask me at this if we like put on the same uh level so same physical level the things that will always change and like create a winner between the the both for me is the mind is your mind and uh it can also like fill a gap that there is between some athletes that maybe they are not at the same level physically but your mind can really become that if like the age uh in uh in your performance wow yeah that's so interesting because yeah i i you do need and and I know it sounds harsh but I think raw talent is part of that because with the best will in the world if you can't catch a ball for example or you're really sure you can learn but you'll never be as good as the person who just does it naturally so yeah we need to be honest about that.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: It required definitely more effort.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: I I believe that it's something that you can I mean if you really really work out you can do it.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: Of course of course is different is it required more effort physically and mentally yes and then if you've got somebody else who's naturally good at it also putting the same amount of effort it they are going to still be better.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's difficult.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yaya this is such a great conversation we are keeping you but where can we learn more about you follow you and so on?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes on on Instagram as uh Yaya Braincoach and uh on my website brainperformancecoaching.com brilliant and now we're keeping Yaya for Tessa Trend well today's test the trend we're handing it over to Yaya Kolella who is a brain coach so take it away so talking about the All of this exercise.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: I think uh something uh very useful for everyone, after it's uh professional everyone, is uh a quick brief exercise that we can we can learn, we can do together if you want.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, please.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: So it's basically something that helps to calm down your nervous system.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: So we talk about the this nervous system that is connected by connecting the brain with our body, and uh we have two different uh systems the parasympathetic system and the sympathetic system.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: So with this exercise, what we want is try to balance this is a system that when the pressure hits they are not the same level.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: So what we want is try to rebalance it.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: So it's um uh inhaling from your nose for four seconds, hold for two seconds and then exhale for six seconds.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, through the mouth or through the nose?
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: Through the now, the the nose inhale for four seconds, we can do it together and then exhale for four for six from we can try it together.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: So inhaling from basically activating everybody disease when you expand we want to feel safe and calm and relax everybody, and even just one minute of of these exercises every day is useful if we want to just settle down a little bit.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: It does, it yeah, it can I can instantly feel myself coming down and grounded a bit more.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's lovely, it's so simple as well, and yes, and cheap, you know, you can do it right there, you can do it in the moment as well, which is absolutely brilliant.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, give that a go and let us know in the comments how you got on.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: I always like the last bit of the show because we get to reflect on everything that our amazing guests have said, and there are a few things, Ya, today, where where I know I've sort of made a bit of a shift in my thinking, and and I like that.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's it your metaphors that you're using have been really helpful because we talk about training our brain, but what do we really mean by what's actually going on in there?
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and to be able to break it down in that way.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the point you made, especially about the prefrontal cortex.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: The minute you're getting so much information and there's loads of cortisol going on in there, your stage has already become absolutely packed.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's right, because when you think about it, when you're stressed, you can only see one tiny, tiny thing.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so yeah, that's that's really helped.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Your metaphors have really brought brain training to life, I think.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's me.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'd say the same.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: I love the your analogy of the field.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: I just transferred that to my garden because we literally do have that path through the grass where the dogs just go up and down the middle like that, and I'm thinking, no, I need to walk to the side of that path and in my head, so that's really good.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you talked about procrastination as well, that that's something that I do, and I've and it and it's silly because I'm not lazy, but it but somebody might think that because it takes me ages to actually get going, but it's I don't want to do it wrong, so I'd rather not do it at all.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's that kind of a thing.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's the and it's not procrastination you'd need to work on, but the inner voice of the I don't want to do it because I get it wrong, it's taking it the step.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: But but yeah, so what you were saying about you just have to do it for a minute and a half, two minutes, so uh because that takes away the um the threat, I guess, or you know, or the yeah, so I'm gonna try that.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that was really something really that was really resonated.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Linked to that was the point about how it's really hard if you've made it part of your identity.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that's so interesting because I think somebody who smokes actually they don't celebrate calling themselves a smoker, but they do call themselves a smoker.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: My mum used to, my dad.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: I find that so interesting.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we can be calling ourselves things that we're not proud of actually, but just the very act of calling ourselves it means it's harder to change.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: It really has been a pleasure chatting with you, as always.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's always so interesting to really get into the brain.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: I can yeah, we have to come back, you know.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and well, from all of us here at Mental Health Matters, have a healthy week.