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Rethink Everything About Being a Next Gen Loan Officer · Mortgage Marketing Radio

• 0:00
  Hey, what's up, Jeff Sinfer, time for another episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio
• 0:15
  podcast.
• 0:16
  Appreciate you tuning in here, boy, boy, we got a good one coming to you in just a moment
• 0:21
  about a special project that I'm involved with that I'm very excited about to be chosen
• 0:27
  to be part of the special project.
• 0:29
  You'll hear about that in just a moment, but before we get there, another success
• 0:33
  story from the streets, as you know, one of the things we do in my company Mortgage Marketing
• 0:40
  Institute, hopefully you know by now is we help originators move from solicitor and vendor
• 0:45
  to becoming partner and peer.
• 0:47
  We do that by helping agents solve problems.
• 0:50
  We facilitate resources, content and education in the format of classes in person and virtually
• 0:57
  to scale our reach with real estate agents, to have a better impact, to attract versus
• 1:02
  chase, increase trust, drive conversations that lead to referrals.
• 1:07
  That's what we do.
• 1:08
  Here's another success story.
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  Once again, coming at you with a story from Tiffany Sachsden, Tiffany, what's up, shout
• 1:14
  out to you.
• 1:15
  Tiffany just posted it on our Facebook group yesterday.
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  She's been hosting a series called Learn with Tiff, great title, lesson in personal branding
• 1:25
  there.
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  By the way, the average quote lunch and learn is boring.
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  So Tiffany is smart.
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  Here's how smart she is.
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  She's hosting her Learn with Tiff class called top 10 ways to get more listings.
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  By the way, that's one of the classes that are done for you and provided to you as a member
• 1:42
  of my agent classes.
• 1:43
  You can go facilitate that in your local market.
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  But Tiff is really smart because she has more than once now partnered with a top producing
• 1:50
  agent in her area.
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  That makes a lot of sense when you think about it.
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  Why?
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  I mean, sure you can host a class on your own and that definitely works and is highly successful.
• 2:00
  However, maybe you want to consider partnering with some other known people, agents and others
• 2:06
  in your local market that have their own audience that could attract people to attend your classes
• 2:10
  as well.
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  And therefore you double dip on that.
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  So Tiff decides to reach out to a top producing agent in our area to team up and teach this
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  class 10 ways to get more listings.
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  That provides additional value.
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  I mean, the real estate agent loves it.
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  Most successful real estate agents tend to want to share and have the heart of a teacher.
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  Maybe that agent wants to recruit people.
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  And that agent's going to help get people to attend the class.
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  So what happens?
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  Tiffany gets 15 reservations.
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  But 16 people show up.
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  She had several agents come up to her after class wanting to partner with her.
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  She's already started to follow-ups, the conversations, the meetings and a side note.
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  Tiffany's been with us for several months now.
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  She also wanted to share that she had just closed and funded alone, that she had received
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  from previous classes that she had hosted, realtor she had met and referrals that she
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  received.
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  All that done with no chasing, no co-calling, no co-paying for leads, no going to, you
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  know, happy hours, dressing up for the Halloween costume bowl, if you've ever done that in
• 3:26
  your career.
• 3:27
  No, she's leading with education.
• 3:29
  So look, if this sounds like something you might be a fit for you and it is not for everybody,
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  we're looking for people who've got at least two or three years experience under their
• 3:39
  belt, are at least doing two or three close loans per month or more, we've got people
• 3:44
  doing much more than that in our community.
• 3:48
  But if you're looking for a more effective way, a predictable way to reach agents at scale,
• 3:55
  increase your conversations and increase your referrals that lead to contracts.
• 4:00
  Go to mortgagemarketing.pro, what could call with me and you can learn more.
• 4:05
  Mortgagemarketing.pro.
• 4:06
  Okay, so now on to the special guest for our guests, I should say, for this episode
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  and the project that I'm involved with, which I'm very excited to be part of.
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  While back, we had my friend Kyle Draper on the show, Kyle's a video therapist, I believe
• 4:23
  is what he calls himself.
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  And Kyle is actually helping people in our space, real estate and mortgage, gain more
• 4:29
  confidence on video, be more authentic and consistently put out content that resonates
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  and engages with our target target audience.
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  Kyle is the author of a book called Rethink Everything.
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  And he has a new addition in that series coming out called Rethink Everything You Know
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  about being a next gen loan officer.
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  Kyle has teamed up with another smart dude, Brian Vu from Finlocker.
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  And they've done this pretty cool thing, which you're going to want to check out and listen
• 4:58
  to this episode because they've decided to, they're all about collaboration, right?
• 5:03
  So what they decided to do is reach out to, I believe it's 39, roughly, could be 40.
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  Maybe I'm getting that number wrong, but let's just call it 40, about 40 of the top thought
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  leaders in the mortgage industry got together and we wrote a book.
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  The book is called Rethink Everything You Know About Being An Next Gen Loan Officer.
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  It covers a range of game changing topics and insights from some of the industry's best.
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  I am grateful to be considered on that list.
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  And I have contributed a chapter, which is called Unlock the Secret to Doubling Your Real
• 5:34
  To Referrals.
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  And many other people that I respect and have followed for years are also included in this
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  book.
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  Just to name a few and if you're listening and I don't mention your name, I apologize,
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  but we're talking about Bill Hart, Ryan Grant, Dale Vermillion, Phil Treadwell, James Duncan.
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  Who else we got here?
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  You can see Y-Shar, who's an amazing originator who's been on my show.
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  I'm just looking at the less Shane Kidwell, of course, Cal Draper and Brian Vue, right?
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  Dustin Owen, and the list goes on and on and on.
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  Upwards of 40 different highly intelligent, smart people all bringing a topic that they
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  are a thought leader, subject matter expert in.
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  And this is amazing.
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  And if you were able to be in a room with 40 of the top thought leaders in this industry,
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  that ranges from top producing originators, people that are excellent at financial education,
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  leveraging tech or AI.
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  You want to improve customer experience.
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  How about building your personal brand?
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  How about video?
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  How about podcasting?
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  You name it.
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  It's all included in this book.
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  And this is a conversation that Kyle and Brian and I have about the book, about the content,
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  and this is your opportunity to go out and get the book now.
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  There will be a link in the show notes to go get this book.
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  And each book, by the way, each chapter, the authors of the chapter, each also contributed
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  an educational video.
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  And this is, you know, so it's free access to get to the video.
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  My chapter includes a video of some of the best content I have.
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  And that's why this is a pretty cool project and a book that I definitely highly encourage
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  you to go check out if you're a leader or manager listening to this.
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  You know, get multiple copies for your branch, for your office, your company, whatever it
• 7:25
  is.
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  You won't be disappointed.
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  This is dog gone at the best darn deal that I've seen come along in a long time.
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  So make sure you listen to this episode.
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  More importantly, check out the show notes, get the link to go ahead and get your copies
• 7:37
  of rethink everything you know about being an ex-gen loan officer.
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  And so let's get into this week's show.
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  Kyle and Brian, welcome to the show.
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  Jeff, thanks for having us.
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  It's an honor to be here.
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  It's an honor to have you both.
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  And we always have fun when we talk together.
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  So let's do this for those that are listening.
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  They want to put a face or sorry, a voice with a name.
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  Kyle, why don't you explain who you are and what do you do?
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  Who am I?
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  I'm Kyle Draper and I am what I call a video marketing therapist.
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  So I help people get comfortable in front of the camera positioning their story, their
• 8:17
  narrative in front of the people that are most likely to work with them.
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  And I wrote a book.
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  So I guess I'm also an author, and that's partially why we're here today.
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  And so could I tell you more?
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  I could.
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  Would you care?
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  Probably not.
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  So Brian.
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  Brian, go to you.
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  Yes.
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  Yeah.
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  Hey, Jeff, thanks for having us on again.
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  Brian, view president, chief operating officer, Finnlocker.
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  So we're a fintech that supports mortgage lenders, really the whole mortgage ecosystem.
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  And our focus is really to help, help prepare the next generation home buyer for qualifying
• 8:56
  and getting that mortgage and then buying that home.
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  And there's a whole lot of other stuff that we do around engagement and technology.
• 9:04
  Awesome.
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  So today we are together because you guys are working on a cool project, which I have
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  been blessed to be a part of and invited to, which we'll be talking about that, this
• 9:16
  new book that you have coming out that you guys have collaborated on.
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  So stay tuned if you want to learn more about that.
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  But the premise of that book is our topic for today, which is next generation mortgage
• 9:28
  loan officer.
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  And I thought it would be fun seeing as you guys have been spending a lot of time talking
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  to other professionals around the country and kind of massaging out this next generation
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  mortgage loan officer.
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  I wanted to build it, build this person and like we get to build the robot, the terminator,
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  whatever, right?
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  So let's take a moment and kind of articulate or maybe let's start with how would you
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  describe articulate what are the attributes?
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  What does that mean to be a next generation mortgage loan officer?
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  I'll start if it's okay, Kyle.
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  Yes, please.
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  I like to start by talking about the next generation home buyer first, right?
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  We all know that there's this, well, those of us that are really close to the industry
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  understand that there's this pent up pool of prospective first time home buyers.
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  And I think the National Association of Realtors told us at the end of Q4, the average age
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  in 2023 for first time home buyers crept into the upper 30s.
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  I think 36 years old was that median age.
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  So we've got this pool, a population of growing, you know, people who want to buy homes that
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  have been shut out of the market here for some time.
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  And that pool is going to continue to get bigger.
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  So that's, to me, that's the next generation home buyer is that that growing pool and there's
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  estimate estimates that it's north of 30 million consumers or somewhere thereabouts.
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  And so when we talk about the next gen loan officer, I think we have to have the lens
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  on who is the next gen home buyer.
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  And it's, you know, it's really, it's the, it's the younger millennials are, I'm sorry,
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  the younger, yeah, younger millennials, all the jazz, and I twist them myself up.
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  So we've got this younger, you know, consumer segment that is grown up as a digital native.
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  And, and so if you're going to face off with that type of segment of consumer,
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  I think you should understand who they are first.
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  And then you start stacking on what are the right attributes.
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  And the last thing I'll say on that is I'm a mid 50s year old guy.
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  So when we, when I say next generation loan officer, and I think when we say it collectively,
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  we're not necessarily talking about a younger and age loan officer, it's really a mindset
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  that we're talking about.
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  All right, Kyle, what do you say?
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  Yeah, on top of all of all of that, I think listening to, you know, as, as we record this,
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  Brian and I have had over 30 people in a podcast environment talking about their perspective
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  of this. And what, what I'm seeing in all of this is that this younger generation,
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  even the like I'm at the tail end, right? I'm, I'm barely, I actually know, I'm at the
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  older end. I'm barely a millennial. And I still do not want you to call me like I do not answer
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  the phone. And I, I, I'll say this from stage jokingly, but it's dead serious. Like if you want
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  me to answer FaceTime me. And I'll answer. But if you call me, I have no desire to talk to you.
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  Like text me so we can solve it. And so I think with this next generation loan officer,
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  they have to realize that, that the next generation of home buyer, they're perfectly satisfied
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  building relationships online. That they believe to be as strong, if not stronger,
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  than the people they actually do life with every day. And so figuring out how to leverage technology
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  to get face to face, though it's through a screen is of equal value, if not better,
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  for this next generation of home buyer. And so that's been my takeaway is just figuring out like,
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  how do we decrease the knowledge gap by being more present online? By the way, we interact
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  through our socials and in our processes. And I think that's going to be the biggest swing
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  in this transition is those that leverage AI because we're about to unleash AI on this conversation.
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  You already teed that up. And, and so if we're not willing to jump into this game,
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  there will be no room left for you. No one will want the yellow. And my opinion that's like,
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  can we meet for coffee? Can we get together? Hey, let's go to lunch. And I think most people
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  will be like, bro, I don't have time. If that's what you need for me, we're probably not a great fit.
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  So that's, that's kind of my take so far. Oh, my drop. I don't know if it's good or bad, but
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  no, it's good. All right. So you, you kind of teed up the whole AI thing. And before we hit record,
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  I, I asked Chachi PT, I said, how would you define, define a next generation mortgage loan officer?
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  And it gave me, you know, three paragraphs that won't read at all, but I think the summary of it
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  was actually wrote our book. We don't need to write it now. Let's go home. I think two things I
• 14:45
  want to highlight, which is actually echoes what you both just said. It said number one,
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  there would be a depth at using online platforms and digital tools for communication and
• 14:55
  document management catering to a tech savvy clientele. But it also said, where is it here about
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  engagement, right, tailoring, maybe skilled and personalized customer service tailored solutions
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  to meet the diversity needs, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, tech savvy, knowledgeable,
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  customer focused, adept at merging technology with treat the modern demands of today's client
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  in the mortgage industry. Now, obviously Kyle, you help people show up online, you help people
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  be tech savvy, right? You help them merge technology, I think with the human element. And I think
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  you would agree that's probably one of the key key parts of next generation.
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  Because even, I mean, I know you both have seen it. Like there's all this AI now that will literally
• 15:40
  do video for you. And it still sucks. And I get synthies now and people are like, check this out.
• 15:48
  I look how cool this is. And I can't believe that people are freaking buying it. I know.
• 15:55
  But it just shows that like we're just so scared of doing what we're doing right now. This
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  people will go to any link to avoid the discomfort of this. Yes. Even putting out a version of them
• 16:06
  that's so obviously fake. And so yes, like AI is unbelievable. But to truly do it right, like AI
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  won't be a relationship, AI won't be emotion. And so we still have to be the willing person
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  to bring ourselves to the forefront of this. And we're the three of us are our great examples
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  of this. Brian and I have still to this day never met in person. We're writing a book together.
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  We've spent more hours face to face in the last month than I have with guys that I'd call my best
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  friends that I haven't seen in a year. Jeff, you and I, we connected online far before we ever met
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  in real life. In the moment we met in real life, you almost have to remind yourself that you don't
• 16:58
  know the person based in the traditional sense. Because we didn't have to walk up to each other.
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  We're like, oh, hey, are you? Well, hey, have we ever shook? Do we need a shake? Can't do we?
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  It's if we're willing to lean in. This is the this is the game changing environment
• 17:18
  that I think we have the greatest advantage in. I'm curious. I pause to for a moment to see
• 17:26
  Ryan. If you wanted to add anything, so I'll jump right in there and, you know, step through that
• 17:29
  if you don't mind. But what I'm sure it's because you guys have talked a lot of people in
• 17:33
  preparing this book. And you've got various people contributing chapters, which is awesome.
• 17:38
  How many chapters is there going to be, by the way? I think we're at 400.
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  That's how many of those like slightly less. I think we're I think we have 35 contributors.
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  So each each will have a chapter. And we didn't set out to have 35 contributors. I think I think
• 17:57
  in our minds, Kyle, we're thinking, ah, we get a dozen people. This will be a pretty good. Yeah,
• 18:01
  we started at 12. And then you're like, but we can't leave out so and so. Right. And then you're
• 18:07
  at 16 and then we're at 20 and it's so I'm curious. Let me pivot for a second. We're going to talk
• 18:13
  about this book and how do you get it in a moment. But so you, you're talking to roughly 35 people
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  and getting their take on what next generation mortgage loan officer means and what does that look
• 18:24
  like? And these are all different types of roles. We have, you know, executives that companies,
• 18:27
  we have individual producers, you know, speakers, authors, coaches, whatever. What would be a couple
• 18:32
  highlights or takeaways that you found most impactful for you, right, in prepping and putting this
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  together? Yeah, I think for me, it was intuitively, I think I knew the answer, but it was pretty
• 18:48
  inspiring to just continue to hear. And then it's what we've already talked about, which is
• 18:53
  the relationship formation that can and does happen virtually digitally, right.
• 19:02
  And so, you know, the entire book's not built around personal branding and showing up online,
• 19:10
  but a lot of the chapters have components that touch on those aspects. This is not a book for
• 19:19
  learning how to be a technically proficient loan originator. We're not hammering through, you know,
• 19:25
  guidelines and regulations. People, there's there's plenty of places to go learn. In fact,
• 19:29
  I'm pretty sure if you want to have that little license number, you got to go take 20 hours or
• 19:34
  whatever it is to figure that out. This isn't a, you know, teach you how to be a loan officer book.
• 19:41
  This is for people who are in our profession who want to improve how they face off with this next
• 19:48
  generation who want to be in this business for the next decade. That's who we, you know, compiled
• 19:56
  these these experts to help. And so there is a lot of talk around, you know, that showing up on
• 20:03
  digital and personal branding, but we get into things like segmentation, like talking about
• 20:08
  different segments of consumers from Gen Zs to millennials to seniors and veterans. So there's
• 20:16
  some segmentation discussion. There's some technology discussion around, you know, what's the right
• 20:23
  or not the right, but what are some optimal tech stacks for loan officers to have, you know,
• 20:28
  in their arsenal and and then mindset. There's a lot of, a lot of chapters or a lot of people that
• 20:34
  talk about mindset either exclusively or touch on those things. I feel like it's a really well-rounded
• 20:41
  compilation of experts and expertise. Like, you know, we're not, we don't think you're going to
• 20:49
  open the book and everybody's going to take away 35 gems. I actually think there's more, but
• 20:55
  we believe if you buy this book and you read this book and you find three to five things that you
• 20:59
  can put into your business today, it's a it's a heck of an investment. For sure. Kyle, what was
• 21:06
  you a couple of your key takeaways through all these 30 plus conversations? Yeah, man. I mean,
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  so many the whole time Brian was talking, I'm like, which which ones am I going to talk about? I
• 21:19
  I love the spotlight we're putting on veterans in this book. You know, we Brian and I very
• 21:24
  intentionally were like, man, let's pick multiple people that focus primarily on the veteran
• 21:29
  community, because I also know and Jeff, you know this as well, because you've like you teach
• 21:35
  lenders to work on the real estate side. Most realtors have a bad taste in their mouth when it comes to
• 21:40
  the VA loan. But when I talked to lenders that do the VA loan, they talk about how easy it is,
• 21:47
  how great it is, how much opportunity is there. And so for years, like I've always been baffled
• 21:52
  with why are there such different of opinions on one loan product from from from from both sides.
• 22:01
  And so I'm super proud of the the people we've brought in to represent the VA home buyer,
• 22:08
  the veteran home buyer. And so those conversations have been really fun. And the the other
• 22:13
  takeaway that I had was I feel like Brian, almost everybody said, you've got to become an educator.
• 22:23
  Yes. Yes. You have to educate. Stop assuming that people know what they're doing, that they
• 22:31
  understand what the different loan products are, that they understand that that maybe putting
• 22:36
  more down to lower your points isn't necessarily the best decision, but you heard a youtuber say it.
• 22:42
  And so I think there's just going to be this really big push in the book to go be the expert to
• 22:49
  people. And we do that by the way we show up online and educate. Yeah. Well said. And I kind of
• 22:55
  continued it on with chat you BT here in terms of what tech and social platforms would be used to
• 23:01
  reach the modern consumer. And it dovetails to what you just said there. Obviously social media
• 23:06
  platforms be the educator. I think that's the key headline here is be an educator, right? Be be a
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  knowledge broker, be an authority, become known for something whether that's VA, whether that's reverse,
• 23:17
  whether that's whatever the thing is. And leverage these free platforms, right? That obviously you're
• 23:23
  very well skilled in video, et cetera. But this is how you're going to engage as a next generation
• 23:27
  originator. This is where the consumers are. And so we need to be there and be president or we're
• 23:33
  just kind of becoming relevant. Well, and even like four months ago, I brought on a team to really
• 23:42
  dial in just my email communication. Because so many people now would say, man, email's dead,
• 23:49
  we get hundreds if not a thousand a day. Right. And what I'm learning is like people think that
• 23:54
  because most of the people they get emails from suck at writing emails and they make them all
• 23:58
  about themselves. And so duh, I don't want to read an email from you when all it is is all your
• 24:05
  highlights. It's not adding value to me. So we four months ago, we got my emails dialed in to my
• 24:12
  database that I've wasted for years. And it's actually like making me money now. And like three
• 24:19
  minutes ago, my phone dinged with you got a new cell. And I'm over here talking to you guys.
• 24:26
  And I'm making money. And it's because we've created a community where I'm using my expertise
• 24:33
  to create value for other people. And so there's just there's so much, there's such a large gap
• 24:43
  in the way we educate people in general in our industry. And so to feel to fill that with social media
• 24:50
  or email campaigns are like it's there. There's just there's so much opportunity here
• 24:58
  to serve that next generation. And like Brian said, you can do this as a 65 year old veteran
• 25:05
  L.O. that's been doing this 40 years. Yeah. It's just going to mean you need to rethink a couple
• 25:10
  of things, retool a couple of things and change your mindset. That's the key. I think the
• 25:15
  Brian said that at the beginning like next year isn't about age. It's about mindset. 100%.
• 25:21
  Okay. So let's do this. People want to know all about this book. I'm actually excited to read it
• 25:27
  because I want to learn from some of the other contributors that you've got in there. So I'm kind
• 25:30
  of you're going to be blown away. It's unbelievable. So it's this compilation of 35 thought leaders
• 25:38
  if you will, sharing the best that they have in their of expertise, which I think is a pretty
• 25:45
  cool concept. So who is listening right now that wants to go get a copy of this book? We have a
• 25:49
  URL set up just for you. It's called rethinkeverythinglo.com. We'll put a link in the show notes to make it
• 25:56
  easy. Just tap, use your thumb, whatever. And this will take them to Amazon to get the book.
• 26:01
  rethinkeverythinglo.com. Go get the book. I mean, for, you know, less than a trip to Starbucks,
• 26:09
  you can get educated on how to become a next-generation loan officer and learn from some of the best
• 26:14
  that are in the industry today. Who those do you guys for putting this together?
• 26:18
  Yeah, it's been, well, I was inspired by Kyle's book. You can see it over his left shoulder,
• 26:26
  our right, his left, I think, probably over my shoulder somewhere here too. And if you've read Kyle's
• 26:33
  book and the format of it is what was super interesting. It's an easy read. But then in each
• 26:40
  chapter, the reader gets to actually see and hear Kyle on video, right? So QR codes in the book
• 26:51
  take the reader right in front of Kyle or vice versa. And so the other aspect of what we
• 26:57
  incorporated into this format is the same, that same model where you're actually buying a book,
• 27:05
  but now you're becoming part of a community with these 35 experts and you're going to see and meet
• 27:11
  and hear them and what we hope for. And I think we're going to see this as we hope that there's all
• 27:17
  these relationships that get built, you know, exponentially from the readers and our contributors.
• 27:23
  So we're super excited about the community that's going to kind of form around this book as well.
• 27:28
  Yeah, I love that. Thank you for pointing out the format. That's an important aspect of this
• 27:32
  book and what makes it unique and different in that it's actually an interactive book via the
• 27:36
  QR codes and you go to watch a video from the person you just got that quick lesson on and you want
• 27:40
  to go deeper. That's that that's next is Jen book right there, my man. That's right.
• 27:46
  It's like it's this is the modern version of the scratch and sniff books. Remember those?
• 27:52
  Yes, I do, sir. Yes, I do. That's, I don't remember. I'm not too young to remember those.
• 28:00
  Anyway, so once again, rethink everything, L O dot com, link in the show notes, go check it out.
• 28:06
  Guys, thank you so much for being here and you know, contributing to the community as you do.
• 28:10
  It's an honor. Thank you, Jeff. And thank you, Jeff, for for being part of the project with us.
• 28:16
  It's also an honor and a privilege. If we accept your chapter. I know.
• 28:20
  All right. So you listeners, you know what to do. Go get the book. The links are in the show notes.
• 28:24
  And if you like this episode and think somebody would benefit from it, please share it with them.
• 28:28
  Send it to them because a lot of people could benefit from this book. And thanks for tuning in.
• 28:32
  We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. All right. Well, thanks for tuning into today's episode.
• 28:36
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