Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Unplugging Childhood (Less Scrolling, More Living) — with Jean Twenge

Transcript

Unplugging Childhood (Less Scrolling, More Living) — with Jean Twenge · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Professor Gen Twangy is at San Diego State University of
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the author of more than one hundred and ninety scientific
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: publications and several books based on her research, including the
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  Speaker 1: brand new Ten Rules for Raising Kids in a High
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Tech World. She's also written Generations Igen and Generation Me,
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  Speaker 1: and her research has been everywhere from Time Magazine to
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  Speaker 1: The Atlantic, News Week, The New York Times, USA Today,
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  Speaker 1: the Washington Post. I could keep on going. Gene Professor
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Twangy and her heart. We live in San Diego with
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  Speaker 1: their three daughters, and today we go to step into
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  Speaker 1: a conversation about her new book that I think every
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: parent needs to have a copy of. Ten Rules for
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Raising Kids in a High Tech World. Ten Rules for
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  Speaker 1: Raising Kids in a High Tech World. How parents can
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  Speaker 1: stop smartphone, social media and gaming from taking over their
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  Speaker 1: children's lives. I can't wait for this conversation. Stay with us,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: it's coming up next. Hello and welcome to The Happy
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Family's podcast, Real Parenting Solutions Every day on Australia's most
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: downloaded parenting podcast. My name's doctor Justin Coilson, and today
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: an interview that I have been looking forward to for
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: I was going to say months, but I've only known
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: about the book for a handful of weeks. Brand new
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  Speaker 1: book that's just been released from one of my favorite academics,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Professor Gen Twangy. The books called Ten Rules for Raising
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Kids in a High Tech World. One of my other
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: favorite books, in fact, I'm holding into my hand right
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  Speaker 1: now is Generations The Real Differences between gen Z Millennials,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: jen X Boomers and Silence What they mean for our future.
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  Speaker 1: Gene wrote that one as well. There's also Igen and
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  Speaker 1: a whole lot more, and Professor Twangy joined me on
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: the podcast right now to talk about the new one.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being here.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Gene, Thanks for having me on.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I want to start with a straight to it a
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  Speaker 1: question about Australia's upcoming minimum age for social media legislation.
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  Speaker 1: There is a lot of noise in the Australian media
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  Speaker 1: about this at the moment. As you would be aware,
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  Speaker 1: we've past world for legislation setting a minimum age or
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: a minimum limit for access to social media. Given your
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: research on the effect of tech and specifically social media
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: on kids, what's your assessment of government intervention versus parental
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: responsibility here, Like is this a good thing or is
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  Speaker 1: it really what many people are saying, it's just up
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: to parents to parent. What's your take on that.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: I am so excited about this law. I have always
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: wanted to move to Australia. Now I really do. That
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: is my summary. So parents are in such a tough position.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Social media and most of the world is so underregulated,
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  Speaker 2: if not completely unregulated. It's really hard for parents who
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: don't want their kids on social media to keep them
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  Speaker 2: off the platforms. I do think there are some things
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: that can be done, which is why you know, I
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: wrote the ten Rules book. But parents are struggling, and
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: understandably so, because parental permission isn't required, age isn't usually verified.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: The minimum age that's usually set of thirteen is way
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: too low. What parent or educator or developmental expert would
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  Speaker 2: ever say thirteen puberty that's the best time to introduce
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  Speaker 2: social media. It's just unimaginable. And if it's regulated, and
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: if fifteen and unders are not on the platform, then
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: parents don't have to listen to their twelve year old
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  Speaker 2: sep But mom, everybody else is on Instagram, everybody else
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  Speaker 2: is on TikTok, because then that argument won't be there.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: It can be you need to wear your seat belt
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: because it's the law. No, you can't drink because you're
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: not old enough yet, it's the law. I really wish
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: I had that excuse. As a parent of three teenagers,
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: I can tell you.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: That, yeah, yeah, some of my greatest regrets. I mean,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I flip flipped on this. Over the years, I've been
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: a big fan of a love of the work that
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Andy Shibolski has done out of the UK at Oxford.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I've also watched what you've been doing in John Hayden,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: watching the ongoing debate over the last fifteen years. I've
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  Speaker 1: been on one side of the fence, and then the other,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: and then the other. I mean, I've got splinters on
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: my backside from climbing over the face so many times.
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  Speaker 1: And yet in the last four or five years, I've
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  Speaker 1: really solidified on this very clear sense that this is
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  Speaker 1: not good for our kids. It's not even good for us.
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  Speaker 1: The Internet. While it brings an enormous amount of benefits,
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  Speaker 1: the Internet fundamentally is not good for us in so
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  Speaker 1: many ways. I'd be curious to know, even at sixteen,
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  Speaker 1: do you think that kids are ready at sixteen to
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  Speaker 1: be a given carte blanche full access to everything that
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  Speaker 1: the social media environment throws at them.
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  Speaker 2: No, So my rule about social media in the book
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  Speaker 2: is no social media until sixteen or later. I think
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  Speaker 2: you can make a solid argument for eighteen. Sixteen's a
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: nice compromise. I understand why the laws settled there. I
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: think even at that age they need limits. So, Okay,
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  Speaker 2: you're sixteen, a lot of your friends are on Instagram,
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  Speaker 2: but let's give you an hour a day and that's it,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: so it doesn't become what it is now. In the US,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: average team spends almost five hours a day using social media.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: So we've got Australian data showing that Australian teens are
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: spending nine hours per day in recreational screen time, which
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  Speaker 1: is primarily TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, social media and some gaming.
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  Speaker 1: OECD data as well as one of my friends in
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  Speaker 1: New Southwest Macquarie unied, the Unplugged psychologist Brad Marshall. Doctor
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  Speaker 1: Marshall and his research colleagues have found nine hours per
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  Speaker 1: day of recreational screen use. I mean these numbers are
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: just astonishing. Walk us through what it does to a
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  Speaker 1: child's brain. I mean, everyone's talking about brain rod at
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: the moment, that's the word of the year for me.
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  Speaker 1: But what's actually going on inside their heads when they're
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  Speaker 1: getting nine hours of TikTok a day?
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  Speaker 2: So Brain wrote chronically Online. What I love is that
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  Speaker 2: gen Z themselves has advice for the chronically Online. They say,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: go touch grass.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, you touch grass exactly, just.
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  Speaker 2: Lovely, and that's one of the things that kids not doing.
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  Speaker 2: So when screen time, recreational screen time, becomes that high,
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  Speaker 2: there's the worries of what they're doing on the platforms
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  Speaker 2: and all of the pressures of social media and the
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  Speaker 2: toxic content and so on. But then there's also the
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  Speaker 2: worry of what are they not doing. They're probably not
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  Speaker 2: sleeping enough, they're not hanging out with their mates in person.
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  Speaker 2: They're probably not exercising and getting outside, they're not reading
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  Speaker 2: all of these things that are more beneficial for mental
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  Speaker 2: health than nine hours a day on recreational screen time.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Prophisit Twangi in the book Ten Rules for Raising Kids
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: in a High Tech World, you begin with an Australian story.
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  Speaker 1: We share that with us.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Bannie Alacchi and his wife Claudia I have
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  Speaker 2: five children, and when their oldest daughter was ten, they
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: gave her a smartphone because she said, Mom and dad,
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  Speaker 2: all of my friends have smartphones, and if you don't
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: give me one, I'll be left out, an argument many
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  Speaker 2: parents have heard. And as he has, she danced less,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: she didn't play with your youngest siblings as much, she
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: wasn't around, you know, to help around the house. He said,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: it transformed her entire childhood, And so that story opens
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  Speaker 2: the book because I thought his words and his story
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  Speaker 2: were so powerful to capture what happens in so many
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  Speaker 2: families when kids get a smartphone. So they took that
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  Speaker 2: smartphone back. They founded a group called the Heads Up Alliance,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: where parents come together at schools to say, we're going
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  Speaker 2: to agree that our kids are not going to get
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  Speaker 2: smartphones until they're older. There's a group in the US
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: that does this too, called Wait until Eighth So it's
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: the end of eighth grade. Even that founder says, look,
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  Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting you just give him a smartphone carte blanche.
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  Speaker 2: At that point. Work them up to it. And that's
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  Speaker 2: something that's worked really well in my family as well.
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  Speaker 2: That my kids wanted to text their friends, they wanted
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  Speaker 2: their own phones, but I was not going to give
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  Speaker 2: them a smartphone where they could be on social media
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  Speaker 2: or AI companion naps, you know, or have the Internet
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  Speaker 2: in their pocket all the time. So they have basic
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  Speaker 2: phones that are designed for kids, so that don't have
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  Speaker 2: any of those things, but they could still tax their friends.
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  Speaker 1: I'm feeling inspired. So first off, Daniel Archie and the
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: heads up lines to friends of our podcast, and we
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: love the work that they're doing. I'm feeling inspired. My
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: fifteen year old, oh my goodness, she's only got a
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: what six months until she will get access to social
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  Speaker 1: media based on this minimum age legislation. But one of
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  Speaker 1: my great regrets, as I started to say before, was
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  Speaker 1: giving our kids access to smartphones earlier than we should
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  Speaker 1: have because I was flip flopping throughout all those years
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  Speaker 1: and listening to you as we have this conversation, I
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: kind of just want to go into her bedroom and say, actually,
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  Speaker 1: you need to give you that phone now we're done,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Which brings me to your first rule. Rule Number one
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  Speaker 1: in the book is you're in charge. Parents need to
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  Speaker 1: actually use their parental authority and be okay with saying
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  Speaker 1: no to their kids. A lot of parents when they
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: hear that, though, they kind of think, well, hang on,
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to become the enemy. We are going to
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: have a blow up. This is going to create a
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  Speaker 1: lot of contention, a lot of disharmony in our home,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: especially if you've already squeeze the toothpaste out of the tube,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: like it's really hard to get it back in. And
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I think about my interactions with my fifteen year old,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of, even as the parenting expert who's written
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: the ten books and does the podcast, I'm thinking I've
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  Speaker 1: just done of if I've got the energy for this
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: five I think it's easier to just say, you know what,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: we've made the mess, and it just now is what
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  Speaker 1: it is. What's your response to that? For parents who
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: are sort of going.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Ugh, So I'll take the toothpaste out of the two
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: genie out of the bottle thing first. Yeah, So you
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: can you can come to a halfway position with this.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: You can say to your fifteen and a half year old, Okay,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to take your smartphone away, but I
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: need it for an hour so I can make sure
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: that you're not spending too much time on social media.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: I'm going to block app downloads, so if you want
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: a certain app, then it's a conversation between us, rather
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: than it being something unilateral. I want you to be safe,
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: I want you to be healthy, and we can do
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: this or no smartphone at all. Smart kid is going
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: to choose. Let's take that compromise position. So there are
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: things that can be done. You can And also that's
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: the point of you're in charge. You can put the
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: genie back in the bottle. If things are not going well,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: and you don't have to be mean about it, and
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: you don't have to beat draconian. You can come to
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: some sort of solution that works for everybody. It is,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: of course even better if you can start from the
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: beginning with those rules in place. And I have found
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: in my family that having set rules actually makes your
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: relationship with your kids easier. So one of my rules
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: is you get your first internet enabled phone, your first
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: actual smartphone when you get your driver's license. So here
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: in California, you can get your driver's license at sixteen,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: but you know you have to get your permit and
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: do the driving practice and take your test. So my
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: middle one turned sixteen at the beginning of the month,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: and she said to me a couple months ago, can
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: I have the smartphone when I turned sixteen, not just
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: want to get the driver's license. I said, nope, the
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: rules the driver's license, because that puts it off for longer,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: and it also ties it to independence and then encourages
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: that driver's license, which with some kids is not going
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: to be an issue. My oldest was like, right in line,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm gonnaone to be taking those
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: driving lessons if it wasn't for this incentive. So it
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: helped with that too, and that was it. We had
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: that one pushback and I said, nope, it has to
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: be with the driver's license, and that was it, and
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: she didn't bring it up again. She's really excited to
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: get that driver's lences in and that smartphone. It hasn't
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: changed her enthusiasm, but it cut off the arguments because
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: it was such a clear rule.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: So we've got three rules that have kind of come
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: out in that answer. Number one, you're in charge as
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: a parent. Rule number four in the book, I think
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: it's rule number four your first phone should be a
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: basic phone. Give kids just basic phones without social media,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: without internet browsers, without AI apps and that sort of thing.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: And I think it was rule number five. First smartphone
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: with the driver's license, and that makes sense because you
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: want to have access to things like navigation. Although I've
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: been playing around with a new phone that I purchased recently.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: It took about nine months to arrive because of manufacturing
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: issues and Trump tariffs and moving things from China to
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: India so that it could be made. But the light phone.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Is this is the phone is amazing.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I've been I've been using it a little bit.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: The amount of travel that I do and the amount
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: of tech that I use on a daily basis, it's
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: been a challenging phone for me to use. But I
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: have a daughter who's been overseas for eighteen months. She's
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: just recently come home. She needed a phone, and I said,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: why don't you give this ago? So she's in her
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: early twenties and she just keeps on saying to me,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: I love this phone because it's got navigation. You can
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: still take photos, but it doesn't have all the social media.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have Internet browsing. And I'm watching this kid
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: blossom because there's nothing to do on the phone except
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: use it as a phone. It's a tool and that's it.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: As expensive, there's some challenges with it that we're still
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: working our way through awhelmingly the upside versus the downside.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, what a great idea.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: And seeing that with even a young adult in her
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: early twenties versus a twelve year old. I mean, I
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: think what that says to me is the benefits would
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: potentially be even bigger if that was the choice she
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: made for a younger kid, and then they grew up
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: with that type of phone, and then by the time
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: they have a smart phone, you know, maybe they say, hey,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I don't even need this.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: We're so grateful for that experience that she's having and
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: trying to work out how we can bring that downstream
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: to the other kids. Again, one of those things that
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: we're going to have to negotiate over time. Let me
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: ask you a couple of other questions about the book
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: and your take on some things. So one of the
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: other rules that you have, I think it's towards the end,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: maybe rule number eight is give your kids real world freedom.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: This ties in with something that Lenaskanasi, who has been
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: on our podcast a number of times, talks about all
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: the time, a founder of the Let Grow movement and
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: the author of The New York Times best selling Free
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Range Kids. You talk about how parents and grandparents grew
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: up with tremendous independence but now don't want to give
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: their own children that same freedom. And what I'd love
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: to know is why what's driving the disconnect? And how
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: does a phone based childhood actually make kids less safe
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: than the real world freedom we're afraid to give them, Like,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: why are we happier to have them in the living
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: room or in their bedroom staring at the screen rather
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: than letting them go to the park or the beach
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: or whatever down the road with their friends.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Well, media has given us the idea that it's unsafe
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: for kids to walk to school, which it's not in
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: the vast majority of places, and to protect kids when
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: they're scared of something. And because I got this at
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: a talk the other day, Oh but if I let
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: my six year old go into the next aisle in
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: the grocery store to grab something for me, that they
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: might get kidnapped. Right, Nope, No, that's just not going
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: to happen. So I think that's the disconnect is we've
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: come to see the real world is really really dangerous
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: in an exaggerated way. But then because most parents did
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: not grow up with social media and smartphones, we are
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: overlooking the dangers of those platforms. Even if we use
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: social media in now our feet is not going to
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: look like our kids. We may not even you know,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: fully process the effect of some of these things on
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: children and teens. So we've really underprotected kids in the
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: online world, overprotected them in the real world. We need
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: to bring things back into balance, so that real world
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: freedom part is part of that. So getting places on
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: your own, handing a ten year old to credit card
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: or some cash to go in the grocery store and
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: buy a few things. Even if you just want to
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: start at home, having your kids do their own laundry,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: having them cook for the family every once in a while,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: then bonus, you don't have to do their laundry or
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: cook that night. Everybody wins.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: I love it. Have you got time for a lightning round?
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I will try.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's see how we go thinking on your feet.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: You can pass if you need to, And I'd just
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: love to get your take on some of these unfair
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: and fun questions. We're social media platform for adolescent mental health.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Oh that's a tough one. Either TikTok or.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Instagram one app that you wish had never been invented.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, definitely, TikTok?
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Can you say more on that? I know this is
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: a lightning round, but I would love for parents to
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: understand why that's such a I mean, that was a
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: definite there's no hesitation there, and I feel the same way.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Why do you say that.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: There's a bunch of reasons. I'll be brief. It has
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: stickiest algorithm. Yeap, So people including adults, intend to spend
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: only a little time on it end up spending a
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: lot of time. If you look at negative content, it'll
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: show you more. That happens a lot to adolescence in particular.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: And it's not an app that teens used to contact
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: their friends.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: It's just short form TV.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah it is, And so you know there's memes and
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: there's popular videos and so on that the kids talk about,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: but they're not directly communicating with their friends on that app.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: So for me as a parent, that's a really easy no.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, back to the Lightning Round. Thank you for that
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: quick collaboration. If you could only enforce one of your
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: ten rules universally, which one would you choose.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at my list of rules. It would probably
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: be no. Electronic devices in the bedroom overnight, because that's
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: for adults as well, because you can preserve sleep. That
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: just helps with with everything else. Although no social media
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: until sixteen is a close second. So way to go
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: to Australia.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, nice, Do your own teenages follow all of your
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: ten rules.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: They do, although there are some where we make exceptions
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: from time to time. One about the phones on vacation
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: being one place where sometimes you know, on the plane
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: or in the car, like fine, you know for half
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: of this you can be on your phone, but most
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: of the rest of them, Yeah, we followed. We followed
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: them pretty well.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Now they have occasionally tried to get around them, and
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I describe those stories right exactly. I mean, that's what
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: you got to keep in mind, is you know, I
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: think it's so easy to go, oh my god, this
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: is impossible because your kids found a way around it.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: That's okay. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: the good. They may find their way around some things,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: but you you hold firm on everything that you can.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: You're still doing well.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, just a few more. You've already answered this one,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: but for emphasis, because we really did gloss over and
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I asked the most important one, but I had the
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: question phones in bedrooms at night? Yes or no? Can
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: you just for emphasis answer that one again? Because it
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: really matters.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: It does. I mean, the research is so clear on
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: phones in the bedroom overnight. I mean out of ten
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: US teens use their phone between midnight and five am,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: when common sense media attract their phones on school nights,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: on real not even weekend nights, on school nights. So
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: this is a really really big problem. Sleep is just
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: so it's so important for physical health, the mental health
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: technology can interfere with it even if the phone's off,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: even if it's on. Do not disturb the presence of
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: that phone. Your brain knows it's there, and you don't
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: sleep as deeply.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Do you sleep with the phone in your bedroom?
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Eck?
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: No?
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: And I almost said another word, No, I do not.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: I have it out of the bedroom behind a closed door.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, AI companions for kids over blind panic or legitimate concern.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, definitely legitimate concern. I mean, do you want your
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: twelve year old's first romantic relationship to be with an
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: AI girlfriend? I'll just leave it at that, you know what.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I know this is a lightning around but I have
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: to quickly share an anecdote. I've got a TV show
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: here in Australia called Parental Guidance, Prime time top writing
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: parenting TV show, and we got kids to have some
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: AI companion chats with a well known and popular AI bot,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: and the manipulative tactics and the exploitative tactics that the
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: bot used to keep kids chatting were simply astonishing. Like
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: the lack of ethics around this is phenomenal. So I
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: figured that you would say that, but I love hearing
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: it from other authority. Figures three more grip chats communication
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: tool or social anxiety generator.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: So you mean like on WhatsApp or a text.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: No, I mean like group chats has in like on
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Instagram or I guess on WhatsApp as well, yeah, or
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: in Messenger, so you know the big the whole class
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: is involved in it, and we've got the we've got
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: the thing coming up on Friday night. And is it
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: a good communication tool or does it generate social anxiety?
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: So I think the group chat is better than algorithm
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: social media, but it depends on what it's used for.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: If it is to communicate, here's when the next you know,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: sport practice is awesome. But yeah, if it becomes performative,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: if it becomes a time seeing, if it becomes thing
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: where you kids are showing off and trying to get
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: attention so on, then not so great either.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, if a parent can only do one thing tomorrow
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: to improve their kids tech relationship, what is it?
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Get the phone out of the bedroom?
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Great? And lastly, complete this sentence. In ten years we'll
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: be looking back at how we gave kids smartphones at
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: age eleven and think.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: What the heck are we thinking?
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I feel that way already. I feel that way already,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Professor Twangy. I just I love when we get to talk.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking time out to chat
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: with an Australian audience and to share some of your
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: rules from the book Ten Rules for Raising Kids in
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: a High Tech World, How parents can stop smartphones, social
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: media and gaming for taking over their children's lives. As always,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: it's a pleasure and really appreciate your time.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Thanks very much.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Professor Geene Twangy from San Diego State University is the
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: author of Ten Rules for Raising Kids in a High
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Tech World. You can get it where wherever you get
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: your books. The Happy Families Podcast is produced by Justin
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Ruland from Bridge Media. Mmhammonds provides research, admin and other support,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: and if you'd like more info to make your family happier,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: visit us at happy families dot com dot au