Latest / Between The Rounds Official / "She Sparred Katie Taylor AND Terri Harper. Now She's Breaking Down Every Fight." | Shauna Browne
Transcript
- Shauna: Hi Sarah, it's good to be here. Sarah: Across 14 days, we saw six world title fights and two massive upsets. Women's boxing just landed on ESPN. First we had MVPW's first fight card at the Olympia in London, where we saw Irma Garcia, a 44 year old police officer and lawyer from Mexico City, stop Emma Dolan in three rounds. Nobody saw it coming. Then we had Ellie Scotney become the youngest undisputed champion in UK history. Caroline Dubois dropped Terri Harper. So we had four world title fights at MVPW in Olympia in London. this was very much a proof of concept of kind of where they were headed. You were there the night. What was the atmosphere like? Shauna: was actually there for the whole fight week. It was The biggest thing I took from it is the media and the exposure that the women got because of Sky Sports behind them. Like the open workout was like nothing I've seen before, especially with females. was extraordinary. I said this to Nekisa and I said it to Mike. It's unbelievable what they're doing for females. On fight night, ⁓ Sarah: and unified the lightweight division. We had Chantal Cameron jump two weight classes and make it look easy. 12 days later, we had MVPW number two at Madison Square Garden. Okay. Daniels who lost her last two fights stopped shadasia green in the ninth round. Alicia Baumgardner retained her titles and called out Katie Taylor and Amanda Serrano from the ring. In Cardiff we had Lauren Price retain her unified welterweight titles fighting through five rounds of blood. And not forgetting the amazing meatball Molly McCann. Shauna: being part of Terri's team, we kind of really stuck together on the top floor whilst Terri was getting ready. I did watch Chantelle's. Chantelle a great fight, 12 threes. It was actually a great pace for 12 threes. They kept it going. Sarah: No. and Shauna: I think Chantelle could have got her out of there if the weight was the same. I think she gave away too much weight. That's why she couldn't get her out of there. ⁓ But that was exciting. I'm not going to lie. That was actually exciting. And obviously being the first woman to win a WBO world title, ⁓ doing three minute rounds well was, that was extraordinary. Sarah: Thank box the best fight of her pro career. So there's a lot to talk about. I'm Sarah Cunningham and I'm your host of Between the Rounds. And today I'm joined by someone who doesn't just watch these fights, she's in the ring with many of these women. She was Terri Harper's main sparring partner ahead of the Dubois fight, and she was Katie Taylor's lead sparring partner for the Serrano trilogy. She's seven and one as a pro and she wants a shot at every name we're about to discuss. Shawna Brown, welcome to Between the Rounds. It really was. And what was interesting, she kind of gave a little bit, she revealed a little bit in a post-fight interview after of, you know, listening to her corner on when to kind of change the pace of the fight, when to go up in the gears. And then her coach is like, don't be telling them our code name on what I'm telling you to go from one to three, you know. ⁓ So also adjusting to the three minute rounds. What are your thoughts in general about women fighting three minute rounds, Shauna Shauna: You I don't like them. It does no good for female boxing. ⁓ I said it two and half years ago and Amanda Serrano's first fight proved Baumgardners all Bumgardeners fights have proved it. They thought it'd be more exciting. They thought there'd be more knockouts, but it's actually the polar opposite. It's not exciting at all. Nothing about women doing three minute rounds is exciting. Amanda Serrano was one of my favorite fighters 12 threes that I watched first time, it took me two days to watch it. It was that boring. ⁓ And then Bumgarner and Shin, I only tried to watch it today and yeah, it was so difficult to watch. ⁓ Sarah: It's like the women are reserving their tanks to get through the full 10 rounds, right? And you're almost thinking like, where's this change of pace? Where's the tempo change within this? And they're almost afraid to go for a full knockout because they're like, well, if I don't get them out of here, I've got to go another how many three minute rounds off the back of this. I agree. I'm very open-minded with a lot of this. And I was also hoping that over time we might see an adjustment in terms of the training approach. I guess, do you? Do you train three minute rounds still or do you train two minute rounds when you're sparring? Shauna: So when we're doing our bag work and stuff, it's three minutes, but when we're sparring, it's twos. When I went over and sparred with the girls over in Ireland, when I trained with Kellie and stuff, Gráinne, I did do the threes. And I enjoyed it, but my pace was off the scale, and so was my power still the same, the girls I tell ya. I'd be the polar opposite if I did have to do threes. I'd still be pushing the pace as well as generating power. I I'm one of the lucky ones. I can carry power throughout all the rounds, right, even to the very last round. But I've like you said, they play it too safe. It's like just playing tip for tat and then it's taken a round off. Sorry, for a unification fight, nobody should be taking a round off. It should be illegal. ⁓ The only I'd say, just going into watching Larn Price and her opponent in Wales last week. The week before, man, that was like, They battered each other. But that's how you put it on the line for a unification fight. The defense needs work. I've listened to some of the interviews with Lauren Price. She like literally bit her tongue off in fifth round and continued to fight for another five rounds. Now that's a fighter. That is how you fight. Sarah: Yeah. Well, let's start there, Shona, then, let's start with ⁓ Lauren Price's fight, right? Because it was not a clean It was clinical night on the scorecards, there was a mouth injury in round five, And like you're saying, she bit tongue. And round seven, she had a cut above the right brow. Now she fought the second half of the 10 round ⁓ soaked in her own blood. And Pinero, the Puerto Rican WBA interim champion, was game throughout the entire fight. Now, what I saw from Lauren Price was beautiful boxing. But against Southpaw, like I did notice some of her exits on the way out, her hands were low, she left herself vulnerable. Yeah, she was open to those counters. Her footwork was beautiful and she's a sharp shooter in there. You could really see the Olympic pedigree from her. Obviously she's an Olympic gold. She's unified champ at 147 and this was her homecoming in Cardiff. Shauna: Shin was on. Sarah: Lauren Price faced off with Clarissa Shields at the end of that fight. What are your on that matchup coming in, Shauna Shauna: Me personally, I didn't see it coming and I don't see the sense in it at all. Like what good is it? The size difference, everything about it. She's 147, they're on about doing 160. Where's the safety of the fighter anymore? Lauren Price and Clarissa Shields doesn't make sense. ⁓ Price and Michaela Mayer massively make sense. I think it'd be an unbelievable fight. ⁓ love watching Lauren Price. The only thing I would say, her defense now on fight night wasn't great. But man, she has the best one two right hook I've ever seen. Ever seen. It's phenomenal. Her clean, ⁓ jab going down the center and everything is brilliant. Sarah: It's unreal, yeah. Shauna: the exchanges that happened in every round but if watch it, Lauren started best and finished best. Her punch ratio probably would have been four to one or three to one and her opponent. Every time she did land she was doing that bit more damage. She had the power when Lauren Price had the speed and the accuracy. Like you see in... Sarah: Yeah, yeah. And the footwork, the footwork, she just, ⁓ my gosh, she moved around that ring so well. So, so beautiful. Shauna: Yeah, did you see that in round four she landed a right hook and got the legs completely out of her but didn't realise that she did it, she didn't capitalise in it at all. It took her a good 10 or 15 seconds to get her bearings together and that was only because it was timed beautifully, there was nothing put in it. It's just because her opponent was walking in and the force of meeting a 50-50. Sarah: ⁓ interesting because ⁓ Price has stayed with Sheffield, right, in terms of like the amateur pedigree. So she does spend her time training on in the Sheffield grounds with the amateur girls. ⁓ are your thoughts on kind of that mix up for her camps? Shauna: I rate the way we're trained as amateurs. It's what got us to where we are today and I don't think a lot of it should be forgotten about. Like the partner work, shoulder boxing, that in-out-in, the distance control. Even if you want to go into the Tec Sparring it is so important in It's what makes us the fighters we are. Sarah: Yeah. Shauna: Don't get me wrong, there's obviously a bit more aggression, there's a bit more intent, there's more... In a sense, people would say more thought but let's be honest about it. Amateurs do, there's an awful lot of thought process in amateur boxing. You're up in the high performance now. It's unbelievable. Sarah: I can't, agreed. Yeah, and I'm blown away. blown away by how much thinking there is. And like, I've learned so much in the past, what am I, six weeks in. Everything is thought process first, like, unreal. Shauna: Yeah. ⁓ Of course it is. Yeah, it's not just a gun show. It's not just you're going in the ring to let the shots go, man. If you think that's the way it is, you've lost your mind. Actually lost your mind. It's 90 % mind, 10 % actual physical. It's all like, it's how you calculate. It's how you see everything. Sarah: So I think we both agree then, back just back on Lauren Price and we'll close out on her. So we both agree a fight match up with Michaela Mayer and Lauren Price would be more ideal than Clarissa Shields. Yeah, yeah. And I'm curious, I feel like maybe Michaela has been, has previously ducked Lauren Price then. Shauna: 100%. I find that hard to believe because I know I might get a bit sick for this but I believe Michaela Mayer beats Lauren Price. I do. I rate Michaela I do like her as a fighter Sarah: Okay, okay. Yeah. It's interesting, because I would have thought so too, until I've seen the power of Lauren, right? And I think we've seen someone where, I mean, depending now, because obviously swapped trainers you know, when she lost against Alycia Baumgardner it wasn't a definitive loss, but it was just, she wasn't busy enough, she wasn't doing enough. And I think someone like Lauren with that sort of pace of output, ⁓ I think could easily dominate. But then again, look against Sandy Ryan, like how dominant Michaela Mayer was in that rematch. Shauna: Yeah, I think she does the basics extremely well and the fact that she does have long arms, has that reach, but she also executes her shots really, really well. And I do believe from looking at her, she can punch too. She looks like she can punch too. Sarah: ⁓ yeah. Yeah, Hamedouche was probably one of my favorite fights. I kind of go back and watch that regularly of like just having this relentless pressure on you all the time. And she navigated that so well in that fight, Michaela Mayer did. Yeah, okay. Let's go back on to MVP Now, obviously you were with Terri and the team for the earlier fights, but did you manage to catch the Irma Garcia and Emma Dolan fight? Shauna: watched it there today. devastated Emma I kind of did want it to work for her because of the way she got there. She did it all the hard way. She climbed through, all those belts on small hall shows, not getting her shot and she finally got her shot. And I wanted it to be that like Cinderella story for her. She just couldn't get the distance correct. Her opponent's footwork was great, ⁓ But the thing that I found is the actual shots that landed that her down, right? I had to keep rewinding back to find it because unfortunately, Skysports angle was terrible. You couldn't actually see exactly where the shot was. So where it was placed is exactly on the sweet spot. there. And then the back of the head is obviously just by the temple, just at the back of the ear is the sweet spot. Every single time the four shots, was that shot. She knew when to throw it, she knew when to time it. Sarah: was like a deer in the headlights when it happened. think it just shocked her. think the thing I noticed in some of earlier rounds, she had zero head movement. And so her defense wasn't there either. And so, yeah, she was being clipped pretty aggressively. I think what was interesting is like, is 44 years of ⁓ age, right? she's a lawyer. She's ⁓ a police So she's like this versatile individual. I'm like... Shauna: I know! She's one of the best resumes I've ever seen in boxing! Sarah: Yeah, I'm like, don't shoot down the old ladies here who are trying to make it, you know? But I do. Shauna: ⁓ my God, she made me question, she made me question, am I doing enough? Sarah: Yeah, I mean, it's pretty amazing. ⁓ But I do think maybe they fast-tracked Dolan from like domestic champion level kind of world championship level very quickly, right? Like, what are your thoughts on that? Shauna: I don't know, see, she did, what number fight was that for her? How many fights did she have before that? Sarah: She was, I think, eight fights. Shauna: Yes, she got herself into the position. See, the problem is about it Sarah, right? Regardless, I fast-tracked. When you get offered an opportunity like that, you're not really going to turn it down. Because who's to say you're going to get another one? Sarah: So if you are ⁓ Emma Dolan, what's the first thing you do now when you get back to the gym after that? Shauna: take I would take my time with it so obviously I got my ⁓ my knock down knock out whatever you really want to call it against Elif Turan and the first thing I did is go back to the gym just go I mean 100 million per hour just going after everything trying to fix everything trying to do everything but do absolutely nothing I literally thought I was making moves I was doing the right thing but I wasn't I mentally was not okay I didn't deal with what happened. She needs to take the time out now and deal with this properly. Get herself mentally, mentally well before she even goes near. She could go to the gym because obviously going to the gym, really does help. But don't bury your head in the sand like nothing happened and you're okay Something will give. You know. Sarah: Yeah, don't suppress what's really happening, because you do, you have to confront it and you have to go through it. Yeah, I love that. I love that guidance for her. Okay, on to Ellie Scotney versus mayeli flores Did you manage to see that? Amazing, amazing. Okay, so we had two five cards were 100 to 90 and one 96 to 94. when you look at that on paper, right, there's, Shauna: Of course I did. I was front row. Sarah: two very wide scorecards and then one much closer. kind of said it herself that she felt like the fight was much closer in terms of just the relentless pursuit of mayeli flores What were your thoughts on kind of the results of that fight and just general? Shauna: So I would say, Ellie's correct, it was much closer with the thing I would say. ring generalship was perfect. She was check hooking her when she needed to, doing a little throw out the jab, throw out the backhand and moving. She angled it brilliantly, like phenomenally. And when the exchanges were happening, was finishing the better one. She starting the better one and finishing the better one. mayeli was landing shots. but nothing too major, nothing that would be too eye catching. was the odd one or two here or there compared to Ellie's flurries. Ellie has beautiful flurries, she has great hand speed. She's able to let them go. But the best thing about her letting them go, she's also able to get out of the way brilliantly. Ellie Scottney is one of my, she'll know it anyway, she's one of my favorite fighters in this whole world. Like she's just... Sarah: Yeah. No, likewise, likewise. I've loved how they've developed her through the professional ranks. Like Shane McGuigan is doing such a phenomenal job with her. And just listening to the corner between the rounds of that fight, he was just telling her, make those slight adjustments, you know, like don't be backing up on the ropes leading with that backhand, like lure her in, take those micro steps back then let that backhand go because that's where you're getting the most success. Shauna: Yeah. Sarah: and just being patient with the counter punching and she executed so well. Like just the coach and fighter relationship that's playing out there is just really beautiful to watch. Shauna: Yeah, she trusts him. They've a really good bond. She trusts everything he says. He's guided her the right way. I'm delighted it's about time she's getting her due. I've seen her fight. I she was on the Jordan Thompson undercard with Jay Apte two years ago. And it the first time seeing her live and I fell in love with her. I've seen her beforehand. I loved her style. was one of the most underrated fighters that I've ever seen in my entire life. Sarah: And she's not taking it easy either, cause never fought for a vacated title, right? Which I think is like fabulous, right? She's always fought a champion. every single time from the IBF to the WBO to the WBC and now the WBA like and then to become the youngest UK undisputed male or female in the four belt era like fair do's to her. Shauna: She's in this game to fight. A born and she's damn good fighter too. Sarah: Yeah. did she go from here? Right. She's undisputed ⁓ 122 Shauna: the only thing for her to do is move up and become undisputed at 125. Sarah: Okay, so what does that mean? Because then she's got... Shauna: Tiara Brown is where it looked like. She'd fight Tiara Brown for the WBC. Sarah: How do you think that would play out? Yeah, agreed, agreed. Shauna: I believe she beats her. Yes, I believe she beats her. Sarah: so it looks like featherweight is a pretty open division for Ellie to kind of step in. So interesting for Ellie moving into featherweight in the future. Okay. So main event, Terri Harper versus Caroline Dubois, right? ⁓ we've had real animosity going into this fight. Southpaw, Olympic pedigree, Harper 29, three weight division, world champion. But what was interesting about this was it was slow to start fight, right? Terri Harper never quit on herself. I personally, I feel like we saw some of the best of Terri Harper in that fight. Would love to hear your thoughts on the main event. Shauna: I have to disagree. Her 10th round was the best round by far but I've done so many rounds and people will disagree But you only seen a bare fraction of Terri on Sunday night You didn't see the best of Terri on that night at all. Sarah: Okay. And you think, so you think was that to do with Carline's tactics or just what was going on with Terri? Shauna: don't know, man, whether they were just playing it safe to get past the rounds, because obviously everybody knows Caroline's engine's been massively questioned, which it has. She hasn't really shown that she can make it into the later rounds without gassing out, and it was the same on the tenth round, but I did hear she was really sick with the flu they were even on about pulling the fight. And fair play to her for getting in and taking the fight. It was a really, really risky move to make. Especially on such a big platform, was her night, we'd say. For a unification fight, thought was just played a small bit too safe. But me personally, Caroline needs to be pressed from round one. The only person that really tested her that I feel if she had any more power or there were two more rounds, I believe Shin could have beat her. Sarah: guess when we saw Caroline for round six with Terri Harper. she started to really put the pressure and start to close that distance really nicely and obviously got that knockdown. you see the vulnerability in Terri in that moment or do you just feel like Dubois produced something special in that split second? Shauna: I wouldn't say produce something really special. I'm not sure about vulnerability. She pressed her a small bit, yeah. She let a flurry of shots go. Maybe Terri just didn't know what way to handle it. shot that chopped down in the top, it landed, it did land beautifully. It was a flash knockdown. It was a flash knockdown. But I mean, personally in that... Sarah: and Shauna: I would have got up and I would have been like, I've nothing more to lose. I would literally just go ham and I would go and bring it to her for the next four rounds. What she produced in round 10, like it means she could have done that before and it would have been a completely different fight. What changed the fight was the flash knockdown. Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Shauna: And yet she capitalized on it, she pressed more, she brought the fight to Terri. But what Terri did in the 10th round was absolutely extraordinary. It's just a pity she didn't do it earlier. And that's where it brings back to my argument. And I think she was sick against Shin. She had the flu as well at the same thing. But no matter what she threw at Shin, she threw everything in the kitchen sink. Shin didn't move. She kept coming. For the last two rounds Shin battered Caroline. if Shin had a heavier shot, she probably would have stopped Caroline. I know Alycia and Caroline are having this back up for it. I'm probably going to get some stick for being honest because who's Shauna only after eight fights, I watched Shin and Alycia Bumgartner. It was the most boring fight ever. Don't get me wrong. Alycia Bungarner did nearly chin Shin but Shin is one of the most toughest game as fighters I've ever seen in the division. She doesn't. She's relentless. But they did 10 threes when Caroline could barely get through 10 twos. Sarah: Doesn't stop. Yeah. well think the engine piece is a huge thing and I think also they'll play into the fact that she's WBC champion so ⁓ WBC don't ⁓ allow three minute rounds so there's always going to be that protection I guess for Caroline to sit behind. Shauna: We're sure if that's the case then why is she calling out Alycia Bumgarner? What's she gonna do? Vacate the WBC and go... She'll never make 130lb Never. And Bumgarner made it clear again after fighting Shin, she will not go back down to twos, even though Bumgarner could with going back down to twos. Bumgarner was a good, exciting fighter. She was. She's not that good and exciting at threes. Sarah: think that's what's is she claims to be this knockout artist, but we haven't a knockout since Terri Harper. And it's like, I don't know, Alycia, like, I think we've got things work on. I actually was quite impressed with her performance on Friday night. ⁓ I flip-flop against Alycia. I will say She has a really, really solid jab. And I think she places, her accuracy in her shots are really good. Like you could see that, but she doesn't know how to go up the gears. And I think the only time, I think I saw her live at Madison Square Garden 18 months ago. And again, she almost gassed out. It was like round four or five where she tried to get the knockout and she couldn't get it. And I think it was after that, she was like, I can't put my foot on the gas like this and expect to go another six rounds after. Shauna: Yeah, yeah. Sarah: So she called out Amanda Serrano and Katie Taylor. That's who wants. She's dismissing Caroline. You've obviously been in camp with Katie. What do you see as a matchup of Katie's last fight with Alycia Baumgartner? Shauna: I don't really mind who Katie goes in with. Katie's gonna be well able for any one of them. It doesn't really matter. The biggest thing, obviously, we want Katie Taylor to get her homecoming in Croke Park. to me personally I'd love to the southpaw I'd give you her sparring partner again. ⁓ Sarah: Well, it's interesting because I think Natasha Jonas, that's the only one Natasha Jonas has always said she would love that rematch, right? they ⁓ both in the UK for, I'm trying to think what fight were they, ⁓ no, they were both over in Dublin for the three arena, yeah. ⁓ I was like, ⁓ is this a bit of a marketing play here? Are they trying to like seed something? I think that will be a great final farewell both of them potentially. Shauna: No, they're in Ireland. Yes, so... Yeah, so that's the argument that I had because I like putting like two and two together and making four. I like doing Magnum PI kind of stuff. And that's what I looked into because like her and Natasha Jones fight in Eddie Horn's back garden. Remember it was COVID. It was actually unbelievable. It was super good. But obviously Natasha Jones would have to come down. The two of them are veterans in the sport. The two of them have really good following. It'd be a great way for the two of them to retire. Sarah: Yeah Yeah, yeah, it was a great voice. Yeah. Yeah. Shauna: The woman has done everything in the sport, man. She's always said yes to a fight. She's never, ever turned down an opponent, ever. Sarah: And even when she's on the scorecards, if there was any sort of pushback from the fans, she went back and gave a rematch, no matter what. Look at Delphine Persoon Yeah, yeah. We're looking at both on button with the exact, yeah, Delphine was a, that was a great one. Yeah. Shauna: Exactly. Yeah, like the death of impressioning. Yeah. That was a cracker. The second one was unbelievable. Sarah: Yeah, yeah, unreal. Just to touch on before we wrap this recap, you manage to watch Molly McCann? Yes. Shauna: So I did of course. I have to give Molly McCann massive kudos. She's improved immensely. Oh my god. Her punch selection, her ring generalship, her defensive work, her footwork, engine. i had goosebumps for her for for the walk out for everything for the win the performance man yeah she was she was incredible i give massive kudos to molly mccann for saturday night massive Sarah: Yeah, This fight, to see her on the back foot and box so well and use her distance and range management, ⁓ I think way to go, Molly. Like, unbelievable, like truly. Shauna: ⁓ I think she shocked the whole world. I believe she shocked the whole world for what she produced. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And potentially a British title by the end of 2026, like she's looking for, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Alrighty, Shawna, we will wrap it up there for the recap on all women's boxing in April. And hopefully we'll have some news from you coming up ⁓ we'll cover some of your fights in the near future. Amazing. Thank you so much for joining me. We'll definitely get you back. ⁓ you. Shauna: Brilliant, brilliant. Peace, God. Thank you.