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Talk To An Accountant · She's On The Money

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: and lasting impact for tomorrow.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome.
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: Become back to another episode. I'm Victoria Devine, the owner
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: of several successful businesses, and I've got a special treat
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: for you guys today.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Not only are we doubling down on the.
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: Tax episodes ahead of EO F Y, but I am
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: joined today by a very special guest and my friend
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: Julian Morrow, who is not only a finance guru, but
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: also runs his own very successful accounting for moro. What
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: do we got the name for that?
• 1:24
  Speaker 5: Where I get it from?
• 1:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Where'd you get the name for?
• 1:26
  Speaker 5: That wild my surname.
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: Really, do you think I'm being serious?
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not testing you.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: I literally just said your surname, and I'm like, wow,
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: real original, Julian, that's crazy. Well, welcome to the show.
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: Thank you for making the time for us today. I
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: am genuinely very excited to get you on the show
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: because at the end of the day, I've been meaning
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: to connect with you in person for literal years. We
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: just haven't made it happen until I was like, hey,
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: I've got a really good deal. Come on the show
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: and we get to meet in person.
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: Thanks so much for having me V. It was honestly
• 2:00
  Speaker 5: perfect timing and the financial views coming, and like you said,
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: I think we've had this in the mix for years now,
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: being in touch with each other. So glad the cards
• 2:08
  Speaker 5: aligned actually in the studio and yeah, tax is fun.
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: I feel like last Instagram DM I saw to you
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: or from you was like, hey, V, like I can
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: do coffee on Wednesday, and I clearly missed it yeah
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: and didn't reply and it was twenty twenty one and
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: I was like, sorry about that.
• 2:25
  Speaker 5: So when you followed me up, I was like, oh, okay, yeah.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Sure, So you're still keen for that coffee?
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: Still keen? Still here?
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: All right, well, I'm glad to have you tell me
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: a little bit about your firm, Like what sets you
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: guys apart? Why are you not as boring as all
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: the other accounting firms.
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I was explaining this to the team earlier, that
• 2:42
  Speaker 5: accounants aren't all bad.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: I said they were bad. Well jumped a conclusion by bad.
• 2:46
  Speaker 5: Sorry. Now, look, I did start as your traditional accountant,
• 2:50
  Speaker 5: worked at small firms, big firms, and I kind of,
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: you know, saw what I didn't like, which was the
• 2:54
  Speaker 5: super corporate you know, suit and tie vibe, and it
• 2:57
  Speaker 5: was quite daunting to talk about accounting, taxes and finances
• 3:00
  Speaker 5: with clients. So I eventually took the step whe on
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: my own and created a firm where we could be
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: a lot more casual with our approach, educate our clients,
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: not try and scare them with tax And as a
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: result of that, a lot of people have aligned with
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: the brand and it's allowed us to grow to where
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: we are today.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: I feel like you are super approachable, not only in
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: person but also online. Where'd you get the confidence to
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: start creating content online and start posting because I feel
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: like when you're an accountant and when you're a finance person,
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: I eat me. I never wanted to put a face
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: to the name. That's why I started a podcast because
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: it was really non confrontational at the start. Yes, and
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: now look where we are, but like, how would you start?
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah, So look, I think everyone used to say that
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: I wasn't a stereotypical accountant. I've definitely got that introvertedness
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: in me somewhere. But naturally they were kind of like, look,
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: you know, you're more personable. You need to kind of,
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: you know, put your face to an.
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: Ensty you're meant to be here, Like, are you sure
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: you're meant to be in an accounting did you.
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: See me at the office. I'm definitely an accountant right
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: on my Excel files. I think I was just pushed
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: kind of like everyone, you've got to take the leap,
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: put your name out there, put your face out there.
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: It is a little bit daunting, you know that there's
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: all these other professionals out there listening to you and
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: being like, oh, what makes this guy any different to us?
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: And you know, for me, it's just been that different
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: approach and seeing people align with it. Gave me the
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: confidence to pursue it further, and then you just kind
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: of double down.
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: That's actually so relatable for me because when people say, like,
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: what overwhelms you the most when it comes to content creation?
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: You know, is it because millions of people see it?
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: And I'm always like, no, it's actually because other professionals
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: see it, Like other financial advisors are going to listen
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: to my content and judge me if I'm not one
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: hundred percent spot on. So I feel like you've got
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: to be able to back yourself as well and be like, actually,
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: I do know what I'm talking about. I am good
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: at my job, and that's one of the hardest things
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: to do because the content creation really easy. You're just like, Okay,
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: I can whack out a video, no worries, but you've
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: actually got to back yourself.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: But I'm excited to have you on the show.
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: I know that the community are going to love this
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: because today we are giving every we won the opportunity
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: to kind of talk to an accountant. I mean, we
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: ask them the questions in advance, so let's pretend it's live.
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: But we put a call out to our small business
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: owner community and our side hustlers, and we ask them
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: for all of their questions about tax, and after the
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: break we're going to get to those. I want to
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: talk about you and about tax and about accounting before that, though,
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: but before we get Julian's thoughts on all of your
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: very juicy questions. I feel like the most common question
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: in our community, irrespective of whether they are a PAYG
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: employee or a big business owner, is should I be
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: doing my own tax return?
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: Controversial?
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: No, no, good question, bie see, let's go, let's go.
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: Look. I think definitely, as your pay as you go
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: you don't necessarily need one. It's a little bit of
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: that you don't know what you don't know, so there's
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: definitely ato resources. You know, my GAV pre fills a
• 5:49
  Speaker 5: lot of individual tax return information, but you might be
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: missing certain deductions because once again, you don't know what
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: you don't know. So there's always a benefit even if
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: you're a simple tax return and you've got somewhere related
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: costs to have an accountant. When it comes to a business,
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: I'm pretty inclined to say you do need one, absolutely,
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: not purely just for tax, but it's even like, you know,
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: is your structure correct, You're not going to pick up
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: on that. So you might be like, look, I've got
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: this great tax return, I'm getting a refund I claimed
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: my deductions. But the accountant might be like, hey, cool,
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: I'll help you with that. Plus, have you looked at
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: changing your business structure, which is something you don't even
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: know at that point in time.
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: Potentially, let's dive into that for a hot second, because
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: as an ex financial advisor, I used to see a
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: lot of clients and they'd come to me and they
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: were super proud and so was I of what they
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: were achieving. But they were set up in a sole
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: trader structure and they would be like, oh, it's so
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: easy V Like I'm doing ABC and D. But as
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: a sole trader you get lumped with your marginal tax rate. Right,
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: So a lot of them were starting to absolutely make
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: bank and it was shooting them in the foot. At
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: what point should a sole trader go, you know what,
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: maybe I should talk to an accountant about this company thing.
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: It's a little bit overwhelming, like how do we make
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: the shift?
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Like when should we be doing that?
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: Well, it comes off the back of like we said,
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: if you've got an account, you can have those conversations
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: to regularly, right, so you're in the right place at
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: the right time. But otherwise, when I talk to people
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: about setting up companies, it's kind of there's two reasons
• 7:13
  Speaker 5: why you do it. So one is regardless of what
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: you're making, it might even be you know, risk and
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: asset protection. Right, So a lot of people forget to
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: understand that when you're a sole trader, you are the business, right,
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: so if something goes wrong, there's a potential that that
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: exposes you personally and dramatic.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: But they're coming for your house, right, They're.
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: Coming for your house's got one, They're coming.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: They're coming for your pa. Like it's kind of low
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: key scary.
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: It's scary. So until you're told that, sometimes you don't realize.
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: Separately to that, obviously there's a tax advantage. So like
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: you were saying, the if you're a sole trader and
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: let's just say you're making bank you're making three and
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: a grand for example, Okay, big dog, right, this is
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: that person out there, regardless of if they're spending all
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: that money, they're paying the highest tax rate versus if
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: they were a company. There's the benefit of keeping some
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: in the company at a low attack. So to answer
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: your question the specific dollar amount.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Of cause there's no rightal wrong, correct.
• 8:05
  Speaker 5: You know you might have a hex stet taxes a
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: little bit higher than someone without a hex s deet,
• 8:09
  Speaker 5: different factors in there, but once again, having the accountant
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: to be there to prompt you regularly is going to
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: make sense.
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's a good time for me to remind
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: you all that this is general advice only, and obviously
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: you need to talk to an accountant.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: It's just stories like these that help you grasp.
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: The concept of moving forward with one or the other
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: because you go, oh, v that makes so much more sense,
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: because if you read the ATO website, you just go, oh, okay,
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: so here are the features and benefits. That doesn't make
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: a lot of sense, that's right. And when I look
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: at my own situation, having been a financial advisor, I
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: skipped past soul Trader. I was just like absolutely not, like,
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: I don't want to have to change my structure later
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: and kind of double up. And so I set up
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: my company from the very beginning, knowing full well that
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: I wanted to make use of the tax advantages of
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: a company, but I also didn't want to put my
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: husband at risk. Yes, I didn't want him to be
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: annoyed at me if like I didn't pay my tax
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: debt and the at are like, hey, so your house.
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: I just wanted to protect my husband as well as
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: my assets.
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, So it can be all those different factors. So
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: once again, even like you said, registrations, you don't want
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: to set up all your business names and change them
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: down the track can be a little bit of a hassle.
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: So some ballid points. Glad you did it right from
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: the start.
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: I feel like I had some solid advice on my side,
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: and that is one of the things that I always
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: talk about in this community, right, like, you don't know
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: what you don't know, and often to get the right
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: advice it's really expensive. And I had a lot of
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: privilege having exposure to that area. And I mean I
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: was already in finance when I set up a finance business,
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: So you would hope I would nail the structure, yeap,
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: Like you'd be a bit oh, what are you doing
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: thee if I was a soul trader, Yeah, like shouldn't.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: You know better? But you don't know what you don't know.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: And sometimes when you're a small business, you're a sole trader,
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: and then you listen to a podcast like this and
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: you're like, wow, I feel like I might be in
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: the wrong structure.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: I'm so silly, I'm so dumb. That's not it at all.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: You did the best that you could with the tools
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: and resource as you had at the time, and you're
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: a million miles ahead of everyone else anyway, because you're
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: a business owner, Like you're already putting your neck out,
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: so like now might be the time to talk to
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: an account about like, oh, how can we do this?
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: What can we do?
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: And I promise any good accountant is going to make
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: you feel empowered by it, not overwhelmed, And they're also
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: going to explain it in terms that you get. They're
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: not just going to sit down and be like, okay, cool.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: So if you've got a discretionary trust or you know,
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: a testimonial trust, what's the difference here, Like you're going
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: to be so overwhelmed if they're just talking technical or
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: as if you sit down with someone like Julian who's like,
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: all right, well do you want to pay more tax?
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: Or no?
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: You go, oh, this makes so much more sense. Why
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: can't everyone talk like this?
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: And look, I think as well, what your accountant learns
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: about you is quite personal, right, They see all your finances,
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: they see behind the scenes, So naturally, aligning with someone
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: that you're comfortable talking to all these things about is
• 10:48
  Speaker 5: going to do great things for you.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent.
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: And you've got to trust them as well, because if
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: you're a little bit cagey, you're going to get no value.
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: Like if you're trying to withhold things, that is no
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: benefit to you at all. I have said before on
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: the pod, and I do not expect you to have
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: listened to this, Julian, because it turns out you're not
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: my target market.
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: Okay, I'm really sorry.
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: Interesting you only just learned that, so sorry. I've said
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: it before on the show, and that is that being
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: a financial advisor I felt like was one of the
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: most pervy jobs in the world but also one of
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: the most trusting jobs because I know more than your GP,
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: and when your accountant should know more than your GP,
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: because you've probably done your personal insurances and they're going
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: to need to know the outcome of that because like
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: in some situations, your insurances are inside different trusts or
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: you know, for the business, your account's going to need
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: to know that they're going to need to know whether
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: you want to divorce your wife or not, because obviously
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: asset protection comes into that. So if you don't trust
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: your accountant or your financial advisor, they're not for you.
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: Like you literally need to move on. And I feel
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: like if you're getting cold shoulder vibes with somebody that
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: you can be like, oh, Julian, I'm having the worst
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: time at the moment, Like I think my partner and
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: I are going to go through a separation, and you
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: can't say that to them wrong person from my perspective.
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: And I've definitely seen that heaps of times, you know.
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: I mean, you've got business partners that are dating or married,
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: et cetera, and then you know, things hit the fan,
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: and you know you've got those situations. So yeah, yeah,
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: definitely trust his key.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: Do you know what my dad said the other day
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: about business partners? He said, the best number of business
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: partners is an odd number less than three.
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: And I was like, oh, cool, Dad, did you get that.
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: It means one, it means no business partners, it means
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: very terrible idea. Yes, an odd number lesson I was
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: in the moment. Okay, So we said that Julian was
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: a really good accountant. Julian, I want to know what
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: are your clients at the moment finding most concerning. I
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: feel like there's lots flying around in the industry at
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: the moment, and a lot of your clients are that
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: she's on the money demographic, either small business owners or individuals.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: So what are they asking you the most questions about
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: tax deductions?
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: One hundred percent? But I feel commonly the biggest issue
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: or differentiation that people struggle with is personal versus business. Yeah, right,
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: and that is also you know, an ato thing that
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: they look at, not just this year, but kind of
• 13:02
  Speaker 5: every year, and it relates to so many things. So
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: for example, it's your car, it's working from home arrangement,
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: it's your phone, it's your internet, it's your subscriptions, it's
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: so many things. So we've got obviously a lot of
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: clients new and old, and naturally they might feel like
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: something is a work relay deduction because they use it,
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: you know, this much for work. But there's obviously such
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: a big personal you know portion as well. So it's
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: going through all the nitty gritty to actually work out
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: what you can and can't do. And obviously that's quite
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: difficult to grasp, especially in your first couple of years
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: of running a business. So that's an ongoing educational thing
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: that I think, you know, is kind of prevalent in
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: our client's minds at the moment. And then naturally it's
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: just kind of optimizing their tax position. You know, people
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: are still scared of tax, even if it's lower than
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: what they should have. Let's say it was meant to
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: be forty percent. We've got them down to twenty five,
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: they might still be scared of twenty five percent, which
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: is fine. That's just how they feel. So it's managing,
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: you know, expectations and working out what we can do
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: best to kind of, you know, make it as efficient
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: as possible.
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: I suppose always used to tell clients that we should
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: be excited, obviously because I was trying to reframe it
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: into something that's really positive. But I would always say
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: that we need to be excited about the tax that
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: we pay. And I said this because more tax means
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: more money, and the more money means that your business is.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Successful and it's good.
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: I feel like often it's more around having the education
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: to know how to deal with tax when it comes
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: into your account. And the second that you're able to
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: go all right, well, I've found a structure that works
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: for me. Whenever a payment comes in, I automatically take
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: thirty percent and chuck it in another account and I
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: don't think about it.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Those people are a lot less stressed.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: Do you talk to your clients as well about how
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: to structure money coming in so that tax doesn't feel
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: as painful, because it can feel terrifying.
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: Corcactly, most of tax is honestly planning, right, so whether
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: it's done quarterly, yearly, whatever it is, and that includes
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: your structuring and things like that. So you know, we're
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: always suggesting having separate bank accounts for the business, having
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: your tax bank accounts there as well, and whether you're
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: putting aside GST you're putting aside your tax might have
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: employees you don't want to fall behind on their taxes
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: and they're super There's so many things that not go wrong,
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: but you just need to be on top of it,
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: because obviously the dollars can start to add up quite
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: quickly if you're not on top of it.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: And I feel like it can be really overwhelming. But
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: at the end of the day, the structure can also
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: be automated, which I find very sexy. I mean the
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: second you said tax planning, I was like, oh, my gosh,
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: it's nearly tax planning season. Like it's made like I
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: get to actually sit down with my accountant and do
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: some tax planning.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: I get so excited because.
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: I'm like, it's a period of reflection and also planning
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: for the next year and tax planning. As much as
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: I'm saying I'm excited about it. In you Macov you've
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: got rocks in your head. It can be really exciting
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: because it's a time to reflect on what you've done
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: in the business, where the business is going, with a
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: professional that can actually guide you through and make sure
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: that you're in the right position. Like, oh, I was
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: paying double just to do my tax planning sessions, so.
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: It's a great Cui, he's going to pay double listening.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: No you're not.
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: No, I agree. So I think I take tax planning
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: and tax time as yes, the process of doing the
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: compliance and all of that, but also a point of
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: reflection to look at you know, all your systems, your bookkeeping,
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: your structure, you know your tax savings. Is that all working?
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: And then if it's not, you know, putting the changes
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: in place for the new financial year and improving always
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: from there.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent.
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: Now, I was going to ask you before about the ATO,
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: so we know what your clients are finding most concerning
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: at the moment, and I know that every year as well.
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: We talk about on Shees on the Money, how the
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: ATO released, like it's like a blog post of what
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: they're targeting this year. What do you think the ATO
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: are going to have their eyes peeled for this season.
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: I like a little disclaimer on that. I reckon that.
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: Even though they put that out sometimes people get confused
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: and they think or maybe they're not able to target that.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, They're.
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: Always targeting everything, especially that personal versus business. I do
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: love that because it's such a key thing. Look, I
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: think I've read a little bit out there around rental
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: properties for those that do have one right the way
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: you're claiming deductions and you know what you can and
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: can't claim. So they're always hot on that. And still
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: that working from home, even though it's kind of faded,
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: you know from a couple of years ago, there are
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: still constant changes to the rules around working from home.
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: And I think, once again, if you're completing your own
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: tax return. If I go into a little bit of
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: the technical side of it for a second, there's a
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: rate that you can claim per hour for your working
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: from home, right, but if you claim that rate, you
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: can't also claim a portion of your phone and internet.
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: It's one out right, So people might be out there thinking, Okay, cool,
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: I use my phone for work, double up right, So
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: simple errors like that that you might feel a big thing.
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: But you know that's a pertanial yes, and they add up.
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: I was reading because I am always reading tax articles.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: It's billions of dollars in a discrepancy when it comes
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: to even just the work from home situation.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: So it is big.
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: And even though you might see it as like a
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: couple of dollars that you're skimping on, if everybody does that,
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: it becomes a really big problem for the ATO, And
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: I feel like they're on top of everything now, Like historically,
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: I'm sure when you had your first official job and
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: you were claiming your three hundred dollars worth of receipts
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: even though you didn't actually incur those expenses and you
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: got away with it.
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: Old school message.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it's a massive myth.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: Just FYI if you didn't incur those expenses, you can't
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: claim them.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: That's just a nice Oh, you don't have to do
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: the admin on this.
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: The ATO were being nice, not you get some free stuff.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: Now AI exists, and every single year the ATO is
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: getting better and better at utilizing that. But I think
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: it's going to get to a point where they will
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: basically in the future. And please don't quote me on
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: this or think that you're out of a job, but
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: I think that for PAYG employees, AI is going to
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: basically be able to do your entire tax return for
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: you and there won't be any questions because with data
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: matching and the information that your employer pays and your
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: bank feeds, like, we're going to have no privacy basically
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: correct everything.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: They're going to see everything.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: I agree, And I think that that's kind of cool too,
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: because it takes pressure off you for having to try
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: and do the right thing.
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: Yep. And I think it falls back as well in
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: terms of another thing that we hear all the time
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: is you know, I'm just a little fish. They're not
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: going to come after me. They're always after the big
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: end of town. That's true to some extent, but at
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: the same time, if there's you know, hundreds of thousands
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: of people claiming that three hundred dollars or claiming the
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: maximum kilometers with no proof, Yeah, that adds up to
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: big dollars for the ATO as well. So we can't
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: be and I even think, you know, when not a target,
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: So you do want to make sure you're always you know,
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: claiming what you can claim and maximizing but still being
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: legit about it.
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: Which is funny because you haven't heard this episode yet
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: because it hasn't dropped at the time of recording. But
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: the first tax episode I did with my co host Jess,
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: who's an employee of mine, Julian.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, she says she got audited two.
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: Years ago, and so she's not, by any stretch of
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: the imagination, you know, one of the big fish. She's
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: just doing the right thing. And thankfully when she got audited,
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: she is like the best, Like she was like, yeah,
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: here have at it, Like she didn't do a thing wrong.
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: So she was absolutely fine. But she was shocked at
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: the time that she got audited. And I remember her
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: getting the letter in the mail because it's all very official,
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: and she called me being like, what is going on?
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: What have I done wrong, And I'm like, look, could
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: also be random selection, which is correct. And I think
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: that that's important to take into consideration too, that even
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: if you've not done anything wrong, your tax return could
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: not be flagged. It could just be random selection and
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: then making sure that they've you know, dotted their eyes
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: and crossed their t's and they're just doing some testing correct,
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: and you've fallen into the unlucky pile.
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: It is quite daunting when you do get any correspondence
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: from the ATO. It might even be a nice letter,
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: but naturally when people see AHO. Anytime I get some
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: phone calls.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: I see a letter come through and I literally go, oh,
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: what's this?
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Like what I owe? What have I done?
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: And sometimes it's just a we've updated your contact information.
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: You're like, oh, okay, interesting story. Why do you have
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: to be all official about it? I feel like it's
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: when you drive past the police and you think they're
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: going to do a massive UWI and pull you over
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: even though you did not one thing wrong.
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: That's the ages, that's the vibe.
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: That's the vibe the ATO need little hat. All right,
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: let's go to a really quick break on the flip side.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: We're going to be asking Julian a whole heap of
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: your questions, so don't go in anywhere.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Welcome back. If you were listening to.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: The first half of the show, you know that I
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: am joined by a very special guest, my friend Julian
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: Morrow of Morow, the very very originally named firm, and
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: we're talking everything tax.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Julian.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: I put it out to our community a little earlier
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: in the week and I said, hey, guys, we've obviously
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: got Julian coming in and we would like to ask
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: some questions. What are your deepest, darkest tax questions? This
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: can be anonymous and they jumped on it. So are
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: you ready to dive in the deep way? I'd love to,
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: all right, So first things first, Number one, and this
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: was a common question when starting out. Can I claim
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: initial costs of starting my business against my taxes if
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: I'm not gaining sales?
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: So you definitely can, and not only can you, you
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: definitely want to. So with expenses for your business, you
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: need to claim an expense in the year that it's paid. Right,
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: so you might think I'm not making anything of start
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: claiming it in a couple of years. That does and work.
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: So instead, what you need to do is claim it
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: in the first year, and then what happens is it
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: creates a loss for your business. So let's you say
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: you spend ten thousand dollars a year one that ten
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: thousand dollars loss gets carried forward to the next year,
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: so then when you do start to earn money, you
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: don't have to pay any tax until you recoup those losses.
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: So until you make back the ten thousand dollars, you
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: might have costs for years and years until you're actually
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: making income, which is fine. That loss just gets bigger
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: and bigger and gets carried forward. Definitely, you can claim them,
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: but you're not necessarily going to get tax back. Your
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: business hasn't actually paid any tax, not going to necessarily.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Getting a refund for something you didn't pay for, that's right.
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so the loss will accumulate. You definitely want to
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: include it in the year that's incurred, and then down
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: the track it will you know, obviously help you reduce
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: tax because you're not paying any tax until you make
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: it all back.
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: So very long story short, we should be claiming absolutely
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: everything and taking our tax super seriously and doing all
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: of our receipts and absolutely everything, even if we're not
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: making a dollar, correct, because it can benefit us in
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: the future.
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: Imagine you spend ten grand and then you found out
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: down the track that you didn't claim ten grand worth
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: of costs just because essentially.
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: So for the first couple of years of this podcast
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: and of She's on the Money, we were running at
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: a massive loss. And that made sense because like, I
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: didn't even think that She's on the Money would make money.
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: It was just fun on the side that I thought
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: this would be a good marketing project for, you know,
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: my bigger business, Zella, which by the way it worked,
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: it was going well, we are, but I had all
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: these losses that I'd banked up, and I was like,
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: every year I look at my attacks, we're trying to
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: be like, oh, she's a sinking shit and now it's
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: all good, and now I've got to use those losses
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: and claim against them. So the first year that we
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: started making profit, it was very nice. So next question
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: is actually from a locum pharmacist.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: They say, I'm a soul trader.
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: Am I able to contribute to my superannuation before tax?
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: Yes, definitely can so a few things around that. Naturally,
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: there's limits. So this financial year twenty seven five hundred
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: is the current perannum contribution you can make from the
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: first July goes to thirty.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: K, which is nice because it hasn't changed in a while.
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: It's been twenty seven five hundred for a really long time.
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: So nice little bumper. Why not for the super.
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: I mine must be nice if you're contributing that much too,
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: So like yeah, to take you.
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: In and look, super is one of those things where
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: once you've exhausted all your tax deductions. So sometimes people
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: come to tax time and they're writing off equipment, buying laptops,
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: doing all these things, which are great, but you might
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: get to a point in time where the business doesn't
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: actually need anything further to you know, do its thing.
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: Whereas super is one of those deductions where at least
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: you're not just wasting money on equipment that you don't need.
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: You're actually contributing to obviously your said retirement in the future.
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: That money's being invested, it's doing its thing. Talk to
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: me about it. But it's just a good tax reduction
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: to have when you're running short of tax deductions, when
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: cash flow works, et cetera. And even remember you don't
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: need a pay it in one lump sum, right, so
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: you don't just need to pay it at the start
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: of June. You can pay a monthly contribution and then
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: claim that you know yearly amount as well.
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: I always tell people this that it's actually much easier
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: to make a super contribution than you think. I think
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: a lot of us think it's really confusing, but it's
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: actually just.
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: Like a be pay bank transfer.
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: You just be paid to you super and then you're like, wow,
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: that was really uneventful, And it can feel a little
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: bit deflating when you realize how simple it is.
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: Especially when you've put it off for two years because
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: you thought it was so hard.
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: You were like, oh, this is so overwhelming and so complex,
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: and then you're like, oh, just be paid to this
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: account and you're like and then it's done. I don't
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: have any other Adminment's like no, no, no, you had your
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: own biller code, so like they just allocate it to
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: your account and you're.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, okay, why you go away?
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: You go.
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: You mentioned something before about people purchasing laptops and stuff free.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: One thing I wanted to touch on is I feel
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: like small business owners they go, oh my gosh, it's
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: coming up to interfinancial year. I need to like get
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: a new print t or I need to get a new laptop.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: I need to do all these things, and I just
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: wanted to remind you all that that stuff's not free.
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: I think so many times we go, oh, I can
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: justify a new laptop, but you're only being able to
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: claim the tax portion. You're not like getting a whole
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: free laptop, and you claim the whole laptop and wham bam,
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: that five grand is now, you know, completely on your
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: deductions list.
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: Here's the myth Bustard.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, can we touch on this?
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, So the general thing is I'm going to claim
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: it back on tax. Right, So the way that tax
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: usually works is, let's say you spend one thousand dollars
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: on a laptop, and if your tax rate is thirty percent,
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: it's going to reduce your tax by three hundred dollars.
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: So you are still out of pocket seven hundred dollars,
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: which is great if you needed the laptop, because you're
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: going to buy it anything.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Your math I needed the laptop, needed.
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: The laptop, right, you only need a couple of laptops.
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: So if you didn't need the laptop, you're out of
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: pocket seven hundred dollars, So it's not always, you know,
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: beneficial just to spend for tax purposes. I personally, if
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: I didn't need a laptop, would rather the seven hundred
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: dollars in my bank account?
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, absolutely, But sometimes I'm a little bit de
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: Lulu and have you seen the new iPhone?
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Like maybe I'll need that.
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: Timing is right, tax time's coming.
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Like at least I can claim it for my
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: Delulu purchases. But I think it's important to touch on
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: the fact that doesn't make your stuff free. And how
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: many times do you talk to people and they're like, oh,
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: I'm just going to get a new top because tax
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: time is coming up, and you're just like, that's not really.
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: It's weekly, but at this time of the year it's
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: more often than Look, the way I pitch it is,
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: if you're looking at purchasing things, or even if you're
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: looking at buying things in the next few months, if
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: you can bring that purchase forward before the thori of June,
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: at least you get the tax benefit sooner. So why
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: wait until July and then you have to wait a
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: whole on other twelve months to get the tax deduction.
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: Get it on this sid of the financial year and
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: happy days.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Absolutely all right, Next question I have for you, I.
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: Hadn't really thought about the maximum number, but how many
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: abns can I have at the same time?
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: So this is an interesting one. So technically as a
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: sole trader, because it comes back down to the legal
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: structure of your ABN. So as a sole trader, you
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: can only actually have one ABN number. You can have
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: multiple business names registered to that one ABN, so you
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: can conduct multiple businesses under that one ABN, but you'll
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: only ever get one. Versus if you're setting up partnerships,
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: separate companies and things like that, each of those entities
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: has its own ABN and you can start as many
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: as you want. Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: any companies you can have now.
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: I was like, are you about to tell me that
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: there's like a maximum number, because I've like got my businesses,
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: I've got my trust, I've got a JV, I've got
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: like a partnership.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: I've just got a messy tax situa.
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: Am I about to be in trouble? Like this is
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: something that I don't know the answer to, Like is
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: that a.
• 28:20
  Speaker 5: Thing everyone's learning no, so look in summary as a
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: soul tryer, you'll only ever get one. But if you're
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: setting up separate legal entities, companies, partnerships, et cetera, it's
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: a new ab in every time.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Elit all right?
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: Next question, I think I know the answer to this one,
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: so I'm feeling a little bit more confident, but I
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: won't be answering that you will be. The next question
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: is if I'm doing regular freelance work for the same company,
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: is it better to use my tax file number or
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: my ABN?
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: Do you want to answer that one because it's quite
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: a long one.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: It is quite a long one, and I would wonder
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: if it constitutes like casual work instead of freelance. To me,
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: this becomes quite complex. It's not actually about the tax
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: file or the ABN.
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: Correct, and like do you have the option of one
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: or the other, Because generally when you go to work
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: for someone, they might force you to be one or
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: the other. This kind of presents to me that someone
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: you can choose that essentially said to them, do you
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: want to be this or that? So other than the
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: legal technicalities, I suppose there's pros and cons to say
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: they could do both naturally, if it's through your ABN. Well, one,
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: you've got to manage your own taxes, yes, right, do
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: your own invoicing, potentially your own supert it's applicable, correct,
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: You'd have to get your own insurances because naturally you
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: are a business and you're in charge of everything, right
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: Versus if you're an employee, you lose a little bit
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: of the flexibility, but you don't have to potentially provide
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: your own equipment, insurance, etc. Because you're an employee of
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: this employer and they're going to provide that for you.
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: They're going to do your own tax make life a
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: lot easier ideally. But then you've got the idea of
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: what are the pay rates? Is one significantly higher than
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: the other because I'm getting paid more for that risk
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: first reward, So I think it's a few considerations in there.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: For sure, I would be looking at the financial benefit
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: like I would be kind of doing a pros and
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: cons list, but also going all right, well, if I
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: work for myself and I'm using my ABN and you're
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: being invoiced by me, am I invoicing at a higher
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: rate because I'm a freelancer. But if I give you
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: my TFN and we go down the employee route. Am
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: I looking at a lower rate of pay but less
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: responsibility which is usually what comes along with that, Right?
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: So which one?
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: Do you want more money and more responsibility or do
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: you want less responsibility and probably less money. I think
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: he's the question, and we can't answer that because that's.
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: And another angle to even pitch that in is if
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: you're through your AB and you might have the ability
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: to pick up other clients and earn more money again, right,
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: Whereas if you're under a TFN there could be arrangements
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: where you can't work for.
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they might have like a restriction of trade and
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: they'll say, hey, I know you work for us.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: But you can't go and freelance on the side.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: That's right, So all spicely, I would be like putting
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: everything on the table and just kind of going which
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: are my most comfortable with and seeing what happens. But
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: your accountant should be able to help you there as well,
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: because you get a really good picture of what you
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: could and couldn't earn specifically. Whereas we're just guessing at
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: this point that that's the stitch.
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: Right, I agree, hope, let's move on.
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: I feel like let's pretend we've been really helpful there.
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: The next question I have, and I feel like is
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: a good question, because some people live on one side
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: of the train tracks, some people live on the other.
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: What accounting program do you recommend?
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Julian?
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: This is a hard one without plugging the programs, but look,
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: I think which.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: One pays you the most?
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: Julian, that's a great question. I think in the space.
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: At this point, you're paying for the accounting software, so like,
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: do we want to give them a free promo?
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: We'll do it anyway. I think the three main plays
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: are kind of like zero MYB quick books, right, they're
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: all you know, been there for ages. I don't know
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: they like me saying this, but they all do similar
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: things to say.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I know they don't like that.
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: But also the ATO asks for things to be exact,
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: so like, at the end of the day, they can't
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: reinvent the wheel much.
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: Correct, So look, naturally I do use zero more often.
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: And when I'm.
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: Training after clients like you a zero practice, I'm a
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: zero package, yees, So you don't really use anything.
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: Else, correct, Our clients could use something else, so we
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: definitely can work with anything. But look, I do find
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: it simpler in terms of the way it looks, the
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: way it feels, et cetera. And when we train clients
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: up and they get a glimpse of it themselves, they're
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: usually feeling the same as well. Obviously, it's still scary.
• 32:25
  Speaker 5: It's a new program. That's what accounting programs are, but
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: it's miles ahead of doing an Excel spreadsheet. So any
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: of these are going to be an improvement on the
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: Excel format.
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I totally understand that. And I'm going to hit
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: up Zero after this for some sponsorship because this is free,
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: and I'm about to agree that I am a zero girlie,
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: Like my accountant uses zero, and I really like it.
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: I find it very simple, very easy. I was also
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: the treasurer for a charity for a long time and
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: they used zero and I found it so simple to
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: be able to kind of jump in, jump out, look
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: at my balance sheet, look at my P and L,
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: look at every thing, and it just made sense. Like
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: and I'm not saying that other softwares didn't. They were
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: just like a little bit easier, yes, kind of like
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: an epic spec.
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, another one might be a little bit clunkier to
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: get the yeah thing.
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: And like, I like that I can save all my
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: favorites and stuff, and I just like recreate the wheel.
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I've just done this whole balance sheet, but
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: I've actually just clicked one button with the star on it,
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: and I'm like, wow, I'm a genius.
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: Feeling very formal.
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and sometimes I get my accountant to set those
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: favorites up so it runs a specific like outcome. I
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: don't even have to do it, it just lives in
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: my favorites and then I can do it. So yeah, zero,
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: hit me up for some sponsorship because I feel like
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: we would work.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hit us up, We'll collab. I feel like we
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: would be good for you.
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: So moving on, but also only a little bit of
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: a side note, Julian, at what point should I be
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: considering an accounting software and not my very very well
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: loved spreadsheet.
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: Great question, because once again, it's not a dollar figure amount.
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: I think if you look at the benefits of an
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: accounting program, it's things like making your invoicing easy, can
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: send automatic invoice reminders, get you paid easier. So someone
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: might just say, look, I don't want to deal with
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: the extra time that I'm spending manually chasing up invoices
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: doing Excel and go straight to one from the start.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: So, honestly, I just think once you're at a point
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: in time where you feel administratively you're suffering from doing
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: it in an old school approach, weigh it up. You know,
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: these programs cost anywhere between I don't know, twenty five
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: to fifty dollars a month at maximum, depending on what
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: level you get, if you can justify that cost, which
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: is tax deductible, but you don't get it all back,
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: like we said before.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: But also that's a good tax deductive.
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: Correct, It's a valid one. You need it, and it's
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: helping the business. So if you can justify those things,
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: I'd look at doing it sooner rather than later.
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: To be honest, I was in a very committed relationship
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: with my Excel spreadsheet when I started, because I didn't know.
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: Where that was going. Oh thank you with zero or
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: some I don't know notice.
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean I feel like I am now,
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: but that's not where this was going. But I was
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: in a very committed relationship with my spreadsheet, and I
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: remember just.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Being like, should I be spending them?
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Ane?
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Like shouldn't I? Like I knew it existed. I worked
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: in a practice that used it.
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: I was just being stingy and I started to track
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: how many hours my spreadsheet was taking me. So if
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: you're wondering whether you should or shouldn't track how many
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: hours you're sprending, inputting data, checking off the data because
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: it's all manual, right, Like you have to triple check
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: to make sure that there's no human error. And how
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: many hours you're doing manual invoicing, I promise you'll probably
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: be like, oh, the actual fifty bucks a month. This
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: works out because you're getting that many hours back to
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: work on your business.
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: Which is actually creating well for sales or whatever it
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: may be exactly.
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: So I feel like sometimes we don't know but it's working,
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: and like it's an additional fee and I'm like, at
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: what cost?
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, So let's move on.
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: I want to know should I make a separate bank
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: account if I'm running a side hustle or a small business.
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: So when clients come to us, this is definitely one
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: of the first things we get them to do with
• 35:51
  Speaker 5: a new business. It's more of an admin thing. It's
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: not necessarily a tax issue. If you're a soul trader
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: like you can have it in your personal and that's fine.
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: It's more so about getting all your personal transactions and
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: mixed up with your business.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: One may see, why would you do that?
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah? I think about how much you know, you spend
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: throughout the year.
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: Coffee, coffee, coffee, and then you have to like go
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: through it and find out one invoice from office works
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: to be like, oh, remember when I bought staples.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: I probably should be claiming that.
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: Because Victoria says, the little things add up, so make
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: life easier.
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: Do it from the start, Get your invoices paid into there,
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: get a card for that account, tap away as you go.
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: Sorry sidetrack, but I feel like someone might go but
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: I don't have any money coming into my business, And
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: my answer would be good. It means you can transfer
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: personal money and track it better. If that's how you're
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: starting your business, would you agree with this?
• 36:38
  Speaker 5: Correct? Going back to what we said before, AA, you
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: always want to claim those expenses from the get go
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: and be at least as a clear definition. Now money's
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: come in and you can track all your contributions from
• 36:48
  Speaker 5: the start and then eventually pay yourself back as well.
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's actually quite important, all right. The next and
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: The last question I have for you is a bit
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: spicy because I don't think you can put your finger
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: on it, like there's no actual and so so sorry
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: about this in advance, But Julian, what should I expect
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: to pay an accountant to help me with like my
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: bass or my end of financial year taxes?
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Like what's that going to cost us?
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: Interesting question? I look at it from a I know
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: it's just generic like you said, but like it's a
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: value perspective as well. Right, So you might go to
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: the most basic accountant. It's super quick, but are they
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: maximizing your tax stuctions? Do they really care what you're saying?
• 37:22
  Speaker 5: Are they're giving you advice for the future? All that
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: kind of stuff? And then separately, you know, what do
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: you provide with your accountant? So you might go to
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: your accountant with, you know, twelve months worth of PDF
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: bank statements and say to them, hey, can you sort
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: this for me?
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: Oh, a shoe box full of receipts that are half
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: faded and scrunched up.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm going to give you.
• 37:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah, versus great client a over here that says, you know,
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: here's my zero file, it's reconciled, my invoices are attached,
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: receipts are there?
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Very sexy yep, very six.
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: When someone says it's fully reconciled, I'm.
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: Like, yes insert so yeah, naturally the price is going
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: to vary a lot based on that, and that's im
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: with bass as well as in financial Yet it's just
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: done more regularly. So I think you've got to get
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: a few quotes, you know, make it as cheap for
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: yourself as possible by being as organized as you can.
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: What are your thoughts on that.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: THEE I feel like I'm going to piss a few
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: people off here, but that's okay. I just think pay
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: peanuts get monkeys. Like, if you're looking for the cheapest
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: accountant on the block, you're probably not going to get
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: someone who values their time, their energy and knows their
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: worth and knows what value they bring to your business.
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: So do I have the cheapest accountant ever? No, I
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: would say that my accountant's pretty expensive nowadays, and that
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: was scaled so way back when I wasn't earning that
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: much and my businesses were quite simple, it was quite cheap.
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: But now I would say that I have a more
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: complex structure, and I've spoken about it on the podcast before.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: And this might mean.
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: Absolutely nothing to you, or you might go, oh, that's interesting.
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: But I essentially have a trust that owns my businesses
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: and that's how I operate, and that to me makes
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: the most sense. But because of that structure, I'm now
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: paying multiple tax returns. So I'm paying for a tax
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: return for my trust and for each of my businesses.
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: And that is good for me because ultimately I'm in
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: a better financial position, but that can feel overwhelming as well.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: Like I said, oh, like just one tax return, No,
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: we have multiple. Every business has a tax return, my
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: trust has a tax return, Like there's personal stuff I
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: need to do. Like it's actually a little bit wild,
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: But that's Louis's problem, my accountant.
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: I think when you're talking to friends and you're like, oh,
• 39:28
  Speaker 5: how much do you pay for tax? Once again, these
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: are all things that you don't know, Like, so you
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: might think they've got a business, why are they only
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: paying this much? I'm paying that, But you might have
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: more structures than them. So there's a lot of different
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: components to keep in mind.
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: And I think that that's really important. But then also
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: if you're worried about paying an accountant too much sorry
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: about this. You can work with a bookkeeper as well,
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: and an accountant actually usually loves that.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: So, like, I know, my accountant.
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: Adores my bookkeeper because she does all the admin. She
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: reconciles all my accounts, she does my BASS, she pays
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: all of my tax actually make sure I'm on top
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: of my GST and any changes throughout the year, so
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: that when I am seeing my accountant, who's arguably more
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: expensive per hour, I'm sitting down and going, all right, well,
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: I already know where we are, let's do tax planning,
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: what does the future look like? What can we actually do?
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: And he's the more technical that I rely on. Right,
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: So I have a bookkeeper for day to day and
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: then I have an accountant for those bigger questions. And
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: I think that for me that works really well financially
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: because it's less expensive than getting my accountant to do
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: those things.
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: But also he loves it because he's not doing all
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: of those things.
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so there is definitely a differentiation between the two.
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: Funnily enough, we do bookkeeping on accounting in your run
• 40:40
  Speaker 5: for not you personally got me personally? Are you doing
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: the book keep We love the benefits of it, like
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: you said, most accounts do.
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: Being able to shift it, you know, it's made it
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: more affordable for me. But then on the flip side,
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: I really like the delineation of knowing who to talk
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: to about what instead of overwhelming my accountant. And I
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: also know when I go to him, I'm like, all right,
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: these are the big hitting questions. What are you doing
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: for me so he can pay for lunch? Yes, all right,
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: I feel like that is all we have time for
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: unfortunately today. So I'm going to invite you back on
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: the show at some point because I feel like I
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: haven't got enough value out of you yet. But in
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: the interim, Julian, where can we find you if we
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: want to either work with you or watch your content
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: or just hang out or ask you for a coffee.
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we'd love a coffee. Hit us up on socials
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: it's moo dot au, m a U ro dot au, Google,
• 41:27
  Speaker 5: whatever it is. We're everywhere. We're very contactable, and naturally
• 41:30
  Speaker 5: we like to apply pretty quickly.
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: You're so contactable that the link to your website and
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: your Instagram is in our show notes. So you welcome, guys,
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: But that is it from us today. Have a great
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: week and we will see you on Friday.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Bye guys. Thanks guys, did buy shared on?
• 41:52
  Speaker 6: She's on the Money is general in nature and does
• 41:54
  Speaker 6: not consider your individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists
• 41:58
  Speaker 6: purely for education purposes and should not be relied upon
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: to make an investment or financial decision.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: If you do choose to buy a financial product.
• 42:07
  Speaker 6: Read the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Advice tailored towards your needs.
• 42:12
  Speaker 6: Victoria Divine and Sheese on the Money are authorized representatives
• 42:16
  Speaker 6: of Money Sherpa pty lt D a BN three two
• 42:19
  Speaker 6: one six four nine two seven seven zero eight AFSL
• 42:23
  Speaker 6: four five one two eight nine