Latest / Tom's Hirschsprung's Podcast / Episode 53 - 1 Year Anniversary Special with Mr Joe Curry and Fred Gray

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Episode 53 - 1 Year Anniversary Special with Mr Joe Curry and Fred Gray · Tom's Hirschsprung's Podcast

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Speaker 1: You are listening to Tom's Hirshprung's Podcast, where I provide
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Speaker 1: a look into the remarkable experiences of the most inspiring
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Speaker 1: people around Hirshprung's disease and sports. Hello and welcome to
0:39
Speaker 1: episode fifty three of Tom's Hirshbrung's Podcast. We are celebrating
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Speaker 1: the one year anniversary of the show and I have
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Speaker 1: not one, but two very special guests with me today.
0:52
Speaker 1: I am joined once again by a man that you
0:55
Speaker 1: would have heard a couple of weeks ago in Fred Gray. Fred,
0:58
Speaker 1: welcome back, Hello, fantastic to be back.
1:00
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me hand.
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Speaker 1: I'm also joined by a very special man, indeed, and
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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about his career a great Ormond
1:09
Speaker 1: Street hospital. I'm also joined by Joe Curry. Welcome Joe, Hi,
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Speaker 1: Thanks for haming. Thanks so much both of.
1:15
Speaker 2: You for coming on.
1:17
Speaker 1: This is indeed a very very special episode and so
1:22
Speaker 1: glad that we could do this for our one year anniversary.
1:25
Speaker 1: So thank you so much both of you for making
1:27
Speaker 1: the time on this cold Tuesday evening. Thank you. Now,
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Speaker 1: as we said at the beginning, we're going to talk
1:36
Speaker 1: mainly about your career Joe, and how and how important
1:42
Speaker 1: that's been you that for anybody who doesn't know you
1:46
Speaker 1: are a surgeon a great Ormond Street hospital. Would you
1:50
Speaker 1: like to just explain a little bit about what you do?
1:54
Speaker 3: So, I'm one of a team of surgeons at great
1:57
Speaker 3: Ormond Street. We are we might refer to ourselves as
2:00
Speaker 3: as general pediatric surgeons, but all of us have particular
2:03
Speaker 3: interests in our practice, and my particular interest is in
2:08
Speaker 3: operating on children. You've got lower bowel conditions, mostly congenital conditions,
2:14
Speaker 3: means that they were born with those.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, fantastic, excellent and obviously Hirshbrung's being very much a
2:21
Speaker 1: speciality of yours.
2:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, hirshprings and another condition called INTERREACTI malformation. Would
2:26
Speaker 3: be that the two sort of focused areas for my
2:29
Speaker 3: career excellent. And with that, with that in mind, it
2:34
Speaker 3: kind of brings me to my first question. You specialize,
2:38
Speaker 3: as you said in Hirshbrung sort of IBD, sort of
2:42
Speaker 3: lower intestinal. What sort of attracted you attracted might be
2:48
Speaker 3: the wrong word to use, but attracted you to specializing
2:52
Speaker 3: in those conditions? Well, I think there's you know, for
2:57
Speaker 3: the surgeon, there's always something about the challenge of a
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Speaker 3: complicated operating procedure, and that those two conditions are ones
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Speaker 3: where the operation is delicate, it needs to be done well,
3:11
Speaker 3: it needs to be done regularly to have a good outcome.
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Speaker 3: But I think what really for me beyond those two
3:18
Speaker 3: conditions is that actually the care of children with Hirshbrun's
3:22
Speaker 3: and this other condition in rectamalformation is literally five or
3:26
Speaker 3: ten percent of their care is the operation. The rest
3:31
Speaker 3: of the care for those children is looking after the
3:34
Speaker 3: child and the family as they grow through their early childhood,
3:37
Speaker 3: their school experience, their experiences, they go into puberty, and
3:41
Speaker 3: then eventually as they transition, and that ability to form
3:45
Speaker 3: a relationship with a family, to meet them at the
3:47
Speaker 3: start of their child's birth and to know that you're
3:50
Speaker 3: going to be with them on that journey right up
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Speaker 3: until they're eighteen is an amazing journey to be on
3:55
Speaker 3: and to share and to do your best for that
4:00
Speaker 3: family to give the best outcome for the child.
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Speaker 2: So we love the surgery.
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Speaker 3: We want to be in the operating theater doing these operations,
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Speaker 3: but the support and care of the family after the
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Speaker 3: development of that relationship with them is just beautiful. And
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Speaker 3: I think one of the reasons why people do this
4:15
Speaker 3: job of pediatric surgery is is that relationship you form
4:18
Speaker 3: with your families.
4:20
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I know Fred that you and I have
4:24
Speaker 1: both gone through Great Ormanstry. Would you like to just
4:27
Speaker 1: sort of talk a little bit about well what jud
4:31
Speaker 1: just said there in terms of that relationship, because I
4:35
Speaker 1: know you and I both know that the Great Ormond
4:37
Speaker 1: Street is such a special place.
4:38
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
4:39
Speaker 3: Yeah.
4:39
Speaker 4: When I mean I got discharged set into the wild
4:44
Speaker 4: when I was seventeen eighteen, and it was a really
4:49
Speaker 4: it felt like a second It was a second home.
4:52
Speaker 4: It was never somewhere I was scared.
4:55
Speaker 2: To be.
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Speaker 4: My relationship with the with the hospital itself was just
5:00
Speaker 4: care and and love and and how personable the place
5:04
Speaker 4: was just I mean it's particularly mister Kylie. Just going
5:09
Speaker 4: to see him was was comforting. I mean, I've I've
5:12
Speaker 4: felt that as a as a young child. I certainly
5:14
Speaker 4: know how how how much affection my parents had for
5:17
Speaker 4: all the doctors there, particularly mister Kylie. And yeah, it
5:20
Speaker 4: was just that that foundation, And actually it was it
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Speaker 4: was the care that I received that I believe led,
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Speaker 4: well I know led to my brother who is now
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Speaker 4: a very successful pediatric consultant in Salisbury. It was seeing
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Speaker 4: his brother's life being saved and maintained. And you know,
5:38
Speaker 4: as as as mister Curry says, it's it's it wasn't
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Speaker 4: just the operations that I had, It was it was
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Speaker 4: the care I received afterwards, and.
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Speaker 2: It was it was that that was the motivation.
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Speaker 4: And now we've got another fantastic doctor, you know, doing
5:52
Speaker 4: the same thing and sort of generationally, you you create
5:55
Speaker 4: a care system that is that is working and it's good.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely yeah and kind of yeah. And I guess
6:03
Speaker 1: also when it comes sort of right round to this podcast,
6:06
Speaker 1: you know, without the care that I received, this podcast
6:09
Speaker 1: wouldn't be happening. And you know, if I hadn't had
6:11
Speaker 1: such a great experience at great Ormond Street, then then
6:15
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be doing this show. So yeah, So great
6:17
Speaker 1: Ormond Street is a is an incredibly special place to me.
6:21
Speaker 1: And I know, mister Carry you talked about the relationship
6:25
Speaker 1: with parents, but what is it about because I know
6:29
Speaker 1: you said you've been a great Ormond Street since two
6:30
Speaker 1: thousand and one, what is it about great Ormond Street
6:36
Speaker 1: that really makes the place special?
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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's got everything under one roof for families,
6:47
Speaker 3: and I think that it's both one of the really
6:50
Speaker 3: great things about the hospital, which is that many of
6:54
Speaker 3: our children have complicated problems and need help from many
6:59
Speaker 3: different teas in the organization, and they're all on one side.
7:02
Speaker 3: And I think the ability of the families to feel
7:05
Speaker 3: that their care is under one ceiling is really reassuring.
7:09
Speaker 3: It's a challenge for us when it comes to our
7:11
Speaker 3: patients leaving and transitioning that sometimes that care can be
7:15
Speaker 3: a little bit fractured and end up being in a
7:17
Speaker 3: couple of adult hospitals to receive that same level of care.
7:20
Speaker 3: But nevertheless, I think that ability to be all encompassing
7:25
Speaker 3: and holistic for a child is really important. But I
7:28
Speaker 3: also what strikes me every time I walk into the
7:30
Speaker 3: hospital is that sometimes I don't feel like I'm walking
7:32
Speaker 3: into a hospital. You know, you walk into an adult
7:35
Speaker 3: hospital and immediately it's a hospital, you know, with all
7:37
Speaker 3: the trappings of that, But you're walking into a place
7:40
Speaker 3: that feels a lot more homely, a lot more friendly
7:44
Speaker 3: and welcoming. And yeah, it has a very different feel
7:48
Speaker 3: and a different ethos and I would hope that comes
7:50
Speaker 3: across in some of our families.
7:52
Speaker 2: You know, when they're spending a long time.
7:53
Speaker 3: In the building that they don't feel like they can
7:56
Speaker 3: find in a hospital. It's for some, you know, as
7:59
Speaker 3: close to being a comforting second home for them.
8:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, And I think certainly things that will stick
8:06
Speaker 1: with me for the rest of my life, things like
8:09
Speaker 1: the Peter Pan Cafe that will always stick with me
8:12
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. And the little red
8:14
Speaker 1: bus that's right next to right next to the door.
8:17
Speaker 1: Is that still there?
8:18
Speaker 3: No, No, The River Road Boss is no more. No.
8:21
Speaker 3: That went for one of our first upgrades to the
8:25
Speaker 3: entrance to the hospital. And indeed, I think that the
8:28
Speaker 3: whole of the front of the hospital is being redesigned
8:30
Speaker 3: and rebuilt as a new children's cancer center, which will
8:32
Speaker 3: be an amazing state of the art environment for children
8:36
Speaker 3: for the future.
8:37
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, of course you had the Gosh five k
8:41
Speaker 1: to raise money for that cancer center. That that actually
8:45
Speaker 1: I met a previous guest, Paul Wolson, the head of
8:49
Speaker 1: Governance and Membership, who was on the podcast very recently,
8:52
Speaker 1: so I met him there and that was a fantastic event.
8:55
Speaker 1: So yeah, if anybody, and that happens sort of around
8:58
Speaker 1: every October time. I believe the Gosh five K. So
9:01
Speaker 1: if anybody, anybody and you can run it, orkit, do
9:05
Speaker 1: whatever you want. So anybody who wants to do that
9:09
Speaker 1: absolute feel free. It's a fantastic event, really is. But
9:13
Speaker 1: if we go back to you and your career and
9:16
Speaker 1: in the research I was doing for this, it's the
9:20
Speaker 1: numbers of articles and conferences that really stood out to me.
9:26
Speaker 1: If it's all right, I'll reel off a couple of
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Speaker 1: stats with you again. If they're wrong, please correct me.
9:31
Speaker 1: I got them from the NHS website, so if they're wrong,
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. But one hundred and ten peer a few
9:38
Speaker 1: peer reviewed articles, and seventeen book chapters and presenting over
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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty five times to national and international conferences.
9:50
Speaker 1: Does that kind of blow your mind a little bit
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Speaker 1: in terms of just the scale and the amount.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: I never imagine that for myself at the start of
9:59
Speaker 3: my career, because I just envisaged that I would just
10:03
Speaker 3: be a you know, a hard working surgeon and that
10:06
Speaker 3: actually getting involved in kind of research and presenting work
10:11
Speaker 3: wouldn't be such a feature.
10:12
Speaker 2: But actually, the volume.
10:15
Speaker 3: Of patients that we have at this trust and the
10:17
Speaker 3: complexity of them is that we've learned lots of important
10:20
Speaker 3: lessons about how patients are treating, about outcomes from surgery,
10:24
Speaker 3: and it's it's really.
10:25
Speaker 2: Important that that information is shared.
10:29
Speaker 3: And you know, there are surgeons up and down the
10:32
Speaker 3: country who were working in their centers who were who
10:34
Speaker 3: were doing similar things as well and looking to share
10:37
Speaker 3: so that we can be a community of surgeons who
10:40
Speaker 3: learned from each other and are able to do things
10:43
Speaker 3: better the year after from compared to the previous year.
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Speaker 3: But yeah, I've found that work very interesting. It's kept
10:51
Speaker 3: me infused in a specialty. It's enabled me to stay
10:55
Speaker 3: up to date so that I can look at my
10:57
Speaker 3: patients in the eye and say, yeah, I'm offering you
10:59
Speaker 3: what I think is is state of the art treatment
11:01
Speaker 3: because I've kept myself up with what's happening, with what
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Speaker 3: the medical literature is doing, with what new research is
11:07
Speaker 3: out there.
11:07
Speaker 2: And available for you.
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Speaker 3: So yeah, it's it's and I'd say to any children
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Speaker 3: surgeon who's practicing, keep involved, keep learning. It's it's a
11:15
Speaker 3: lifelong learning process. Don't ever think that you've learned everything
11:18
Speaker 3: you need to know, because there's something new around the
11:20
Speaker 3: corner and you need to be there and have it
11:22
Speaker 3: available for you.
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Speaker 1: It's brilliant and no, just curious, go for it.
11:26
Speaker 4: Yes, it's just because on the on the subject of
11:29
Speaker 4: things evolving and changing and improving. I don't even remember,
11:34
Speaker 4: but you actually met my son, Dylan in Woman's treating
11:37
Speaker 4: me as well. Who're probably a bit frazzled at the time.
11:41
Speaker 4: But obviously my dad had it, then I had it,
11:45
Speaker 4: and now my son has it, and apparently that's very rare.
11:48
Speaker 2: Is that very rare? It's it's uncommon.
11:52
Speaker 3: Let's say, I wouldn't put it in the rare category
11:54
Speaker 3: because it's a condition we're understanding more and more about
11:57
Speaker 3: and understanding the genetic nature of.
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Speaker 4: Okay, but already and I don't want to. I don't
12:03
Speaker 4: want to, you know, drinx anything, because of course I don't.
12:09
Speaker 4: But Dylan is incredible in terms of how he is
12:12
Speaker 4: in terms of his in terms of his potty training,
12:15
Speaker 4: in terms of his control, in terms of his you know,
12:19
Speaker 4: we can talk about, but in terms of consistency of
12:21
Speaker 4: poo all that sort of stuff. It's just so vastly
12:25
Speaker 4: different to my experience, not one that I remember, because obviously,
12:30
Speaker 4: you know, I've been told these things, but you know,
12:32
Speaker 4: I had to have a special diet where I could
12:34
Speaker 4: only boil potatoes and boiled chicken like a year, year
12:36
Speaker 4: and a half is all a good process. I was
12:39
Speaker 4: in for two years. He was in maybe for like
12:42
Speaker 4: four months. Maybe in total, I haven't added up, you know,
12:45
Speaker 4: I had I had emergency life saving operations.
12:49
Speaker 2: He didn't. I mean it was obviously still scary and
12:51
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. But the difference.
12:54
Speaker 4: Between his and also, you know the size of the scar.
12:57
Speaker 4: I remember I said on the last podcast showing mister
13:00
Speaker 4: to copy my scar and saying, well, it look like this,
13:02
Speaker 4: and he was like, no, you.
13:04
Speaker 2: Know this key hole.
13:05
Speaker 4: You know, what are the actual In what way in
13:09
Speaker 4: the last forty years have has it improved, like like
13:13
Speaker 4: definitive ways?
13:16
Speaker 2: Does that make sense as a question?
13:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think one of the things, and it's a
13:21
Speaker 3: slightly strange way to start to answer the question, but
13:24
Speaker 3: one of the things that hasn't changed is that we're
13:27
Speaker 3: actually still doing pretty much the same reconstructive operations that
13:30
Speaker 3: were designed in the late nineteen forties and early nineteen fifties.
13:33
Speaker 3: Well but and so in concept, actually how we're treating
13:38
Speaker 3: it surgically hasn't really changed. But of course everything around
13:41
Speaker 3: that has so just to give a couple of examples,
13:46
Speaker 3: the antibiotics that we would now use to minimize the
13:49
Speaker 3: risk of infection and their ability to be very specific
13:51
Speaker 3: is better than twenty years ago, and it's certainly better
13:54
Speaker 3: than forty years ago.
13:55
Speaker 2: The anesthetics that.
13:58
Speaker 3: Children have now in the agents that are used for
14:00
Speaker 3: anesthetic are a quantum safer than they were twenty years
14:04
Speaker 3: ago and definitely forty years ago. So a child's ability
14:07
Speaker 3: to have multiple operations in a safe way without any
14:10
Speaker 3: drugs that would harm the body system or the liver
14:12
Speaker 3: particularly is so much better. The materials that we use
14:16
Speaker 3: in terms of the sucure materials are better. Some of
14:19
Speaker 3: them are now impregnated themselves with antibiotic. So it's kind
14:23
Speaker 3: of everything around the conduct of what is still the
14:26
Speaker 3: same operation is just so much better than it was before.
14:30
Speaker 3: And there what was brilliantly coined by the guy who
14:35
Speaker 3: helped the British cycling team Brailsford, Chris Brailswid, I think
14:40
Speaker 3: who said that it's about marginal gains. It's about the
14:43
Speaker 3: impact of lots of little things improving in the way
14:47
Speaker 3: the same basic operation is conducted that suddenly starts to
14:50
Speaker 3: show itself in terms of recovery and ability to undergo
14:55
Speaker 3: major procedures, recovering credibly quickly, have a much better profile
14:59
Speaker 3: of complications that you would have had you know, even
15:02
Speaker 3: in that generation ago.
15:04
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, thank you, thank you.
15:06
Speaker 1: Sorry, no, no, no, please please feel free jump in whenever
15:10
Speaker 1: you whenever you see fit. But yeah, no, absolutely, rather
15:14
Speaker 1: than the brails for marginal gains. I've heard that a
15:20
Speaker 1: lot of work in the sports field, so yes, we
15:22
Speaker 1: hear that, an awful lots. It's a shame you can't
15:25
Speaker 1: do it with NA United at the moment.
15:27
Speaker 2: But no deal, let's not talk about the ball.
15:30
Speaker 1: I have a Newcastle fan. I have to get my
15:32
Speaker 1: jibes in when I can. No, sorry, back back to
15:37
Speaker 1: the better it had. Yeah no, that's that's. I love
15:42
Speaker 1: talking to people about about hirshbrungs and how it's changed
15:47
Speaker 1: because it essentially if I'm right again, I'm done. If
15:51
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, please correct that the pull through is it's
15:54
Speaker 1: still very much the pall through and it's three different
15:55
Speaker 1: ways of doing it. But everybody who has hirshprung goes
16:01
Speaker 1: through the pool through. But it's amazing to me that
16:06
Speaker 1: you know, people won't have what I what I would
16:08
Speaker 1: call I don't know if anybody listening would know what
16:11
Speaker 1: this means, but I call it my train track scar
16:14
Speaker 1: because it just looks like a giant train track going
16:16
Speaker 1: all the way through. And the fact that things have
16:20
Speaker 1: changed a lot now is I find that. I just
16:24
Speaker 1: find it really really interesting.
16:26
Speaker 2: Yeah.
16:27
Speaker 3: I mean, I've seen families where there's one other there's
16:30
Speaker 3: a very strange condition we treat called polo externosis, where
16:33
Speaker 3: the muscle of the exit of the stomach becomes too
16:35
Speaker 3: big and children have sickness. And there's a very very
16:38
Speaker 3: good and very simple operation that we use to treat that.
16:41
Speaker 3: And because that also runs in families, I have seen
16:45
Speaker 3: a generation from from great granddad to granddad to dad
16:49
Speaker 3: to child or having the same condition, and each one
16:52
Speaker 3: has a different scar. And of course the baby now
16:56
Speaker 3: has has had keyhole surgery so has almost no scarring
16:59
Speaker 3: at all. And you can see how those generations of
17:02
Speaker 3: Skarles have developed over posterity. For again, what is still
17:05
Speaker 3: in essence, that's the exact same operation, but the challenges
17:09
Speaker 3: of having this one operation, but saying you know, how
17:11
Speaker 3: can we do this operation?
17:12
Speaker 2: We do it better?
17:13
Speaker 3: How can we do it and have a faster recovery,
17:15
Speaker 3: How can we do it and have a less rate
17:17
Speaker 3: of complications and infection? Those are the kind of challenges
17:20
Speaker 3: that we need to rise to.
17:22
Speaker 2: Yep.
17:23
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean that's the thing that kind of struck
17:25
Speaker 1: me with great Ormond straight just as a whole, in
17:27
Speaker 1: the fact that they're just constantly striving to just be
17:31
Speaker 1: the best and just constantly.
17:34
Speaker 2: It was the.
17:37
Speaker 1: Way I felt when I was there for yeah, sixteen
17:39
Speaker 1: years or so when I left. I think two thousand
17:42
Speaker 1: and eight was the last time I was there, But yeah,
17:45
Speaker 1: it was what I felt, very almost sure. They were
17:47
Speaker 1: just constantly striving to be better and better and better.
17:49
Speaker 1: And it's exactly what you've you've said. But moving on
17:54
Speaker 1: to something a little bit different. Your TV career, Star
18:00
Speaker 1: of a Chance at Life a fantastic documentary in twenty
18:07
Speaker 1: twelve with you and mister Kyler. There is a wonderful
18:12
Speaker 1: photo that I saw when I was trying to find
18:15
Speaker 1: this but unfortunately couldn't. There was a wonderful photo with
18:18
Speaker 1: you and mister Kylie standing aside by side that I
18:23
Speaker 1: thought it brought back very very good memories for me.
18:26
Speaker 1: So I thought that was fantastic. But in terms of
18:29
Speaker 1: that documentary and in of itself, what was what was
18:36
Speaker 1: it like sort of trying to do your job and
18:41
Speaker 1: also having a TV film crew there? Did it sort
18:44
Speaker 1: of Were you aware of them or you're just sort
18:46
Speaker 1: of super focused on doing what you're doing.
18:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, the latter is certainly true. I mean, there was
18:52
Speaker 3: no element of any distraction from the normal preparation and
18:58
Speaker 3: move up towards.
19:00
Speaker 2: The surgical procedure.
19:01
Speaker 3: I must say that the team who were doing the
19:04
Speaker 3: film and conducted themselves brilliantly.
19:05
Speaker 2: They you talk about fly on the Wall, they really
19:08
Speaker 2: were that.
19:08
Speaker 3: They were very much in the background and were very
19:12
Speaker 3: responsive if we said I think we should stop at
19:15
Speaker 3: this point or or I'm not ready to do this.
19:18
Speaker 2: They were very.
19:20
Speaker 3: Willing and able to respond to the environment that they
19:23
Speaker 3: were in, in the situation that they were in. And
19:26
Speaker 3: I think that's something about that gave them an ability
19:29
Speaker 3: to be able to capture the moment as it really
19:32
Speaker 3: should be because of the fact that they were so
19:34
Speaker 3: non intrusive, and so I think the legismas of it
19:37
Speaker 3: and the reality of it really came across.
19:41
Speaker 2: Yeah.
19:42
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Now I know, Fred, you've seen that documentary as well,
19:45
Speaker 1: and what were your sort of overriding thoughts.
19:48
Speaker 2: Well, I was.
19:51
Speaker 4: Really struck by Well, I'm sort of always I always
19:54
Speaker 4: ask my brother about this. It's a sort of because
19:57
Speaker 4: I've moved on to be a like an actor director
20:00
Speaker 4: to man, and I still don't feel like I've really
20:04
Speaker 4: grown up, Like you know, so people who do real
20:10
Speaker 4: things with their lives kind of.
20:13
Speaker 2: Just I'm in awe of them. And you take that
20:15
Speaker 2: to the extreme.
20:16
Speaker 4: And you're saving people's lives. I put I put doctors
20:19
Speaker 4: on a pedestal pro maybe because obviously my life was
20:22
Speaker 4: saved and now my son and stuff and my brother
20:24
Speaker 4: and my sister in law, et cetera, et cetera. But
20:27
Speaker 4: but I just have this, I have this respect for
20:30
Speaker 4: them because I could never. I could never do it.
20:33
Speaker 4: I could never. I wouldn't be brave enough.
20:36
Speaker 2: I wouldn't.
20:37
Speaker 4: I you know, I have a I have a bad
20:39
Speaker 4: day at work or whatever, I take it. I take
20:40
Speaker 4: it home with me. But a bad day at work
20:43
Speaker 4: for me is you know, I missed a line. It's
20:46
Speaker 4: like it doesn't matter. You know, no one noticed, it
20:49
Speaker 4: doesn't matter. But a bad day at work in that context,
20:54
Speaker 4: when you're dealing with a chance at life, you're dealing
20:56
Speaker 4: with with potential death, like I suppose the question. What
21:02
Speaker 4: really struck me about the documentary is that I was
21:06
Speaker 4: able to see a sort of godlike figure in mister
21:11
Speaker 4: Kylie in terms of my own personal relationship with him,
21:13
Speaker 4: and obviously listening to mister Curry as well, who I
21:15
Speaker 4: didn't have a personal relationship with but was still just
21:17
Speaker 4: as interesting. Was just hearing a human being talk about
21:26
Speaker 4: about the struggles, about the about the ways in which
21:29
Speaker 4: it's easy and ways in which it's difficult, and the
21:32
Speaker 4: ways and it just sort of blew my mind. It
21:35
Speaker 4: just you know, I think someone put the question to
21:37
Speaker 4: mister Carley about do you know you take it home?
21:39
Speaker 4: And he said, well, you can't, really, you can't.
21:43
Speaker 2: Really, you have to.
21:44
Speaker 4: Just worry about doing your job there and then, and
21:47
Speaker 4: you can't. You can't worry about twenty years down the line.
21:49
Speaker 4: You know, you can. You can take step by step
21:52
Speaker 4: and you're with them and sort of taking them through
21:53
Speaker 4: that process. But it's not about you just have to
21:57
Speaker 4: do the best of your ability and try and give
21:59
Speaker 4: them the best chance at life. So I suppose if
22:02
Speaker 4: I could ask a question Tom like do you find
22:05
Speaker 4: do you find, mister Curry that difficult to leave the door,
22:10
Speaker 4: leave the job at the door? Do you do you
22:13
Speaker 4: find you have to find protective barriers in terms of
22:19
Speaker 4: you know, they say like gallows humor and things like
22:21
Speaker 4: with with with doctors and things like have you developed
22:24
Speaker 4: that sort of force field?
22:25
Speaker 2: Is it? Is it? Yeah? I suppose there's lots of
22:27
Speaker 2: questions in there all at once. How do you do it? Basically? Yeah, yeah,
22:31
Speaker 2: he's the questions I suppose.
22:35
Speaker 3: I'd relate an experience when I was working in an
22:40
Speaker 3: intensive care environment in an adult setting and the early
22:44
Speaker 3: part of my training, and there was a patient who
22:48
Speaker 3: actually was a pediatric patient, and it was the first
22:53
Speaker 3: time in my career where I'd got to know a
22:55
Speaker 3: patient and the family around them really.
22:59
Speaker 2: Very well well. And I, uh, the patient was really sick.
23:06
Speaker 3: And I came into work on the Monday morning, having
23:08
Speaker 3: left on the Friday, and I went into the room
23:12
Speaker 3: where the patient was just opened the door and there
23:15
Speaker 3: was nobody in the room, and the bed was empty,
23:18
Speaker 3: and the patient had died, and and I just it
23:22
Speaker 3: was the first time my entire career where I realized
23:25
Speaker 3: that I'd opened up a little bit and I'd really got,
23:29
Speaker 3: you know, a connection with this family, and I and
23:32
Speaker 3: I went to the funeral. I was invited to the
23:34
Speaker 3: funeral myself and two of the nurses who were known
23:36
Speaker 3: by the family really well. And boy, that was hard.
23:39
Speaker 3: And I kind of said to myself, I'm not sure
23:41
Speaker 3: I can do that again. I'm not sure that I
23:44
Speaker 3: could form a relationship with somebody in that way and
23:48
Speaker 3: be able to step away from it and then just say, oh,
23:50
Speaker 3: that happened today and then come towards tomorrow, wow, And
23:53
Speaker 3: and so yes, that there's there's a little bit about
23:57
Speaker 3: having the kind of resilience is a term that's used
24:01
Speaker 3: a lot nowadays, which I think is is that ability
24:04
Speaker 3: to be able to overcome the downs of your career
24:07
Speaker 3: and still be able to come to work and do
24:08
Speaker 3: what you do tomorrow. But I don't think anybody really,
24:10
Speaker 3: certainly not in pediatric surgery, could say that each one
24:14
Speaker 3: of those events is etched on you a little bit
24:17
Speaker 3: and you carry it a bit, and and and Ed
24:20
Speaker 3: saying that he doesn't take it home. If I didn't
24:22
Speaker 3: take it home and speak to my wife about it,
24:24
Speaker 3: I would be nowhere. I need somebody who can bounce
24:29
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff up and you can feel now
24:30
Speaker 3: it's still it's really raw, but it yeah, and I
24:34
Speaker 3: think that that's probably what makes pediatric surgeons is that
24:37
Speaker 3: that they do have that that little bit more about us,
24:40
Speaker 3: about the experience of the family and being involved in
24:44
Speaker 3: that way. But but it's but it's very tough and
24:46
Speaker 3: again and it hurt a lot during that particular episode
24:50
Speaker 3: as well, and it's it's embarrassing to say that it
24:52
Speaker 3: hurt you because you're not the family who've lost their child.
24:55
Speaker 3: But but it's yeah, it's it's tough to get over
24:58
Speaker 3: those things, and it a lot to come back and
25:01
Speaker 3: do it all again the following day. And I think
25:03
Speaker 3: by the time you come in to the end of
25:04
Speaker 3: your career, there's something about you that wants to still
25:08
Speaker 3: do the job you really want. You know, you enjoy
25:10
Speaker 3: the surgical challenge, because we do enjoy that, but there's
25:13
Speaker 3: also a little bit of you things. The one thing
25:16
Speaker 3: that I would I want to kind of lay down
25:19
Speaker 3: and not have to deal with anymore is the emotional
25:21
Speaker 3: challenge and the baggage that you carry.
25:24
Speaker 2: And all of the good.
25:26
Speaker 3: Things that you do and all of the successes are great,
25:28
Speaker 3: and they do mitigate against the things that don't go
25:33
Speaker 3: so well and the outcomes of patients that are sad,
25:35
Speaker 3: but but it doesn't make them go away completely.
25:39
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you man.
25:42
Speaker 1: Oh I know you've got to shoot off in and
25:43
Speaker 1: a sec fraud, but I will ask one more question
25:46
Speaker 1: that I believe for certainly I want to know, and
25:48
Speaker 1: I presume you want to know as well, is that
25:52
Speaker 1: we have talked about your two colleagues that you work
25:57
Speaker 1: alongside for many years, Professor Spitz and mister Kylie. In
26:03
Speaker 1: terms of those two wonderful surgeons, what were they like
26:09
Speaker 1: to work with?
26:13
Speaker 3: Well, well, you can imagine that I turned up in
26:16
Speaker 3: two thousand and two was when I started my consulting career,
26:20
Speaker 3: and I was surrounded by these two guys who between
26:24
Speaker 3: them had half a century of experience, and we on
26:28
Speaker 3: a Thursday morning, we used to have this session whereby
26:31
Speaker 3: we'd look back at some of the patients that we
26:34
Speaker 3: treated during the course of the week, and it was
26:36
Speaker 3: it was a great opportunity where we discussed the case,
26:39
Speaker 3: we'd look at X rays, we talk about the surgeon,
26:42
Speaker 3: the treatment that they'd had, and the trainees were all,
26:44
Speaker 3: you know, like this listening because It was just absolute
26:47
Speaker 3: great experience. And I remember vividly on one occasion where
26:52
Speaker 3: we showed an extray of a child and Lewis looked
26:55
Speaker 3: ahead and Ed looked at Lewis and they both said
26:56
Speaker 3: to each other, We've never seen this before. And there
27:00
Speaker 3: was a bit of me they just went, Oh, my god, they've.
27:03
Speaker 2: Never seen it before. What am I going to do?
27:06
Speaker 3: But there was also a bit of me that was
27:08
Speaker 3: kind of excited that that. Again, the challenge of pediatric
27:11
Speaker 3: surgery is that you're going to come across things that
27:14
Speaker 3: you've never seen before, and the challenge is in utilizing
27:17
Speaker 3: all the experience from your previous treatments, the conditions you've recognized,
27:21
Speaker 3: to bring that to bear to treat your family. So
27:23
Speaker 3: it was incredibly exciting to have that as well as
27:26
Speaker 3: being nervous. But the one thing that really struck me
27:30
Speaker 3: about these two guys was that they were never in
27:32
Speaker 3: competition with each other. They were never afraid to say
27:37
Speaker 3: the things they've done well, but they were also very
27:40
Speaker 3: importantly not afraid to say the things that they've done
27:42
Speaker 3: badly or that had not gone well, so that they
27:45
Speaker 3: could learn from each other and that that collective supporting
27:49
Speaker 3: mentality going forward is they think one of the things
27:52
Speaker 3: that me and Powo is my colleague who's here and
27:56
Speaker 3: my other colleagues as well, really want to continue to
27:58
Speaker 3: bring forward that it's an open, honest environment, and Lewis
28:02
Speaker 3: and Ed really set the foundation for that.
28:05
Speaker 1: Fantastic Fred, is there anything you were I know you're
28:08
Speaker 1: going to shoot off with a bit of anything else
28:09
Speaker 1: you'd like to ask or add.
28:11
Speaker 4: I heard those two questions lined up. Just a genuine,
28:15
Speaker 4: real privilege to speak to you, so thank you so much,
28:19
Speaker 4: not at all pleasure. Thank you so so much for
28:21
Speaker 4: coming on through. Of course, thank you for having me again,
28:24
Speaker 4: No pleasure.
28:25
Speaker 2: You're welcome back anytime. Merry Christmas, do you both?
28:27
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you fantastic. I mean, as as you can
28:36
Speaker 1: probably tell you, myself and Fred hold all three of
28:40
Speaker 1: you in just the highest regard we possibly could. I mean,
28:44
Speaker 1: you saved the lives, you know, it's and I can't
28:50
Speaker 1: say enough good things, and neither can Fred as well.
28:54
Speaker 1: We're recording this before Fred's episode has come out, but
28:57
Speaker 1: in his episode he does talk very very highly about
28:59
Speaker 1: his his care at Great Ormond Street, and as we
29:03
Speaker 1: sort of get towards the back half on this episode.
29:07
Speaker 1: I'd love to talk about conjoined twins with you, because
29:14
Speaker 1: there was something I saw when doing my research on
29:18
Speaker 1: the NHS website. There was in twenty twenty three there
29:22
Speaker 1: was a well there is every every year, but a
29:25
Speaker 1: Conjoined Twins Day, and in twenty twenty three you had
29:29
Speaker 1: a celebration for Conjoined Twins Day and there was a
29:32
Speaker 1: loss of conjoined twins brought brought back. Was that something
29:36
Speaker 1: that you also wanted to specialize in as well as
29:41
Speaker 1: sort of Hirshbrung's and IVD or was it something that
29:44
Speaker 1: you sort of learned later on.
29:48
Speaker 3: I mean, I experienced it from the very start when
29:51
Speaker 3: I was here as a trainee before I took up
29:53
Speaker 3: consultant post in two thousand and two. I saw again
29:55
Speaker 3: Lewis and ed bringing all of their experience to bear
29:59
Speaker 3: on on separation of conjur and twins. Some of the
30:02
Speaker 3: separations are very swift and very straightforward. Some of them
30:05
Speaker 3: are immensely complex, you know, operating times over twenty four hours,
30:10
Speaker 3: four or five surgical teams involved. And interestingly, I guess
30:14
Speaker 3: one of the interests for me is that part of
30:18
Speaker 3: the separation process and the mechanism of connection of conjur
30:21
Speaker 3: and twins does often involve complex surge on the lower bowl.
30:25
Speaker 3: So it was a natural progression for me to marry
30:28
Speaker 3: both of those experiences together. And it's that the operations
30:34
Speaker 3: are immense. As I said, the preparation involved, the personnel
30:39
Speaker 3: involved to prepare for that is phenomenal. And again Lewis
30:43
Speaker 3: and ed set the scene, set the standard really as
30:46
Speaker 3: to what a successful separation operation looks like, which is
30:49
Speaker 3: often many months in planning and many many hours in conduct,
30:53
Speaker 3: and then many years in follow up. And one of
30:57
Speaker 3: the things that I was keen to do was was
31:00
Speaker 3: to bring all the families together so that the many
31:03
Speaker 3: teams involved in their care could see them.
31:05
Speaker 2: All in one day.
31:06
Speaker 3: And there's lots of logistical advantages in terms of multiple
31:10
Speaker 3: visits to the hospital, but there was seen this amazing
31:12
Speaker 3: opportunity for the families to meet each other and to
31:15
Speaker 3: share their experiences, because these operations in this condition is
31:19
Speaker 3: incredibly rare, and all of a sudden, these families are
31:21
Speaker 3: finding themselves in a room with six or seven other
31:24
Speaker 3: families who've been through the same journey, and that the
31:26
Speaker 3: discussion and the camaragerie and the enjoyment of the day
31:31
Speaker 3: was there for all to see, so that you know,
31:33
Speaker 3: there was a little bit of medicine and a little
31:35
Speaker 3: bit of surgery follow up in there, but actually it
31:37
Speaker 3: was just a joyous day of families having fun and
31:39
Speaker 3: sharing amazing experiences.
31:41
Speaker 1: That's fantastic and this obviously can joined Twins Day happens
31:46
Speaker 1: every year twenty fourth of November. I've gotten by notes.
31:51
Speaker 1: I believe that's about right. Was there is this something
31:54
Speaker 1: sort of planning to do each year or every other year, Well,
31:58
Speaker 1: not sure at the moment.
31:59
Speaker 3: I think we're just sourcing some feedback from the families
32:02
Speaker 3: just to see what the experience has been like and
32:05
Speaker 3: discussing it amongst colleagues here, and it's it's logistically a
32:09
Speaker 3: lot of work for some of our i'vemin staff to
32:12
Speaker 3: bring the whole day together. So we've done it twice.
32:15
Speaker 3: We're in the process of reflection about the future.
32:17
Speaker 1: Now fantastic, excellent, and then just sort of going back
32:23
Speaker 1: and I sort of dipped in and out and in
32:24
Speaker 1: and out of your career and weaved it through other
32:28
Speaker 1: things of his career and lose his career as well.
32:32
Speaker 1: But you kind of all to me, it's it's quite
32:36
Speaker 1: a surreal moment because to me, we're all intertwined with
32:40
Speaker 1: each other. I saw one of the three of you
32:44
Speaker 1: each time whenever I went every six weeks to Great
32:47
Speaker 1: Ormond Street. So it is a yeah, it's a very
32:51
Speaker 1: odd feeling I've got at the moment. But I imagine you
32:56
Speaker 1: when do you when you see patients, because obviously you
33:01
Speaker 1: see them from or have seen them sort of right
33:04
Speaker 1: from birth all the way to adulthood. Do you get
33:09
Speaker 1: sort of a satisfaction seeing some patients that you've seen
33:15
Speaker 1: all the way.
33:15
Speaker 2: All the way through. Yeah, incredibly.
33:19
Speaker 3: And I think one of the things that I see
33:23
Speaker 3: from families is when they come back, they're seeing somebody
33:26
Speaker 3: who's quite literally known their child as long as they
33:29
Speaker 3: have and the development of that relationship is one that
33:34
Speaker 3: we should never take for granted. And it's lovely for
33:38
Speaker 3: a family to come into a clinic room and there
33:41
Speaker 3: may be in old times a big set of clinical notes.
33:44
Speaker 3: Nowadays it's all electronic, but I can just turn around
33:48
Speaker 3: to the family and say how are you because I
33:50
Speaker 3: know them so well, I know the journey, I know
33:52
Speaker 3: every operation the child's had, and I've known the family,
33:55
Speaker 3: and I think the comfort that that brings them of
33:59
Speaker 3: knowing that they're with somebody they don't have to start
34:01
Speaker 3: that whole journey again. And of course, you know, I
34:05
Speaker 3: can't see every single patient every time they come to
34:06
Speaker 3: the hospital. Families will come and they'll see the adoctors
34:10
Speaker 3: who are working in my team at that time. But
34:12
Speaker 3: at the end of every clinic, we will talk about
34:14
Speaker 3: every single patient that's been seen. So I've I get
34:16
Speaker 3: an update on every one of my patients in every
34:18
Speaker 3: clinic that I attend. But yeah, that's it's it's it's
34:22
Speaker 3: an incredible journey.
34:23
Speaker 2: It's tough.
34:24
Speaker 3: I've now, I've now been here long enough where I'm
34:26
Speaker 3: saying goodbye to some of my patients and let me
34:28
Speaker 3: tell you, that's quite an emotional time as well. Is
34:31
Speaker 3: is them going out into the world and starting their
34:34
Speaker 3: adult journey. And you know, we talk a lot about
34:38
Speaker 3: transition and the challenges of transitioning children from pediatric surgery
34:43
Speaker 3: into adult services, and it remains a challenge. But I
34:47
Speaker 3: my focus for families now is to make sure that
34:50
Speaker 3: that that young adult who's going into the world knows
34:53
Speaker 3: absolutely everything about themselves that they need to know. It's
34:57
Speaker 3: important parents note, but I want I want that young
34:59
Speaker 3: adult to know exactly who they are, what operation they've had,
35:03
Speaker 3: what's their diagnosis, and specifically what their diagnosis is, so
35:06
Speaker 3: that they can advocate for themselves as they move forward
35:09
Speaker 3: with their life.
35:10
Speaker 1: Absolutely no, that sounds that sounds about it incredibly challenging,
35:15
Speaker 1: a herm and fantastic thing to do as well. I
35:19
Speaker 1: mean having gone through having gone through that myself in
35:24
Speaker 1: terms of when I left at sixteen, and I think
35:27
Speaker 1: I didn't necessarily transfer into the adult hospital. I think
35:31
Speaker 1: there was It was kind of if I needed it
35:34
Speaker 1: type thing, but I would didn't of go back to
35:38
Speaker 1: regular checkups like I had been with great Ormond Street.
35:41
Speaker 1: Is that sort of how it works now? Is it
35:44
Speaker 1: sort of just case by case?
35:46
Speaker 2: It's a little bit case by case.
35:47
Speaker 3: But we have to acknowledge that adult services.
35:51
Speaker 2: Are are stretched, they're overworked.
35:55
Speaker 3: Their ability to take on patients who aren't part of
35:59
Speaker 3: a cancer halfway, for example, means that they're really struggling
36:02
Speaker 3: to take on some of our patients who have real
36:06
Speaker 3: need but they're.
36:07
Speaker 2: Not life threatening leads.
36:09
Speaker 3: They're not, as I say, they're not cancer diagnosis, but
36:11
Speaker 3: they're they're very much affecting quality of life. But the
36:15
Speaker 3: challenges of the modern NHS in terms of waiting times
36:18
Speaker 3: and trying to be seen by specialists is it's a
36:21
Speaker 3: really difficult one.
36:22
Speaker 2: And so.
36:24
Speaker 3: There are real challenges in trying to seek the kind
36:29
Speaker 3: of care that they've had, particularly at this hospital which
36:31
Speaker 3: has all of the ologies under one roof, and that
36:34
Speaker 3: holistic view of care is difficult. And it's not for
36:38
Speaker 3: the want of wanting to be involved from our adult colleagues.
36:41
Speaker 3: It's just sometimes the necessity of the patient load and
36:44
Speaker 3: the and the pressures that have been put on them
36:46
Speaker 3: by the needs of their of their other patients. So
36:49
Speaker 3: it's a difficult one and I think in the past
36:53
Speaker 3: we've been I think our specialty has been guilty of
36:57
Speaker 3: conducting operations and saying to patients you're fixed, your cured.
37:00
Speaker 3: And I would always always say for patients with complex
37:04
Speaker 3: and electric conditions that that you're not really cured. You
37:08
Speaker 3: need to continue to be supported and managed and helped.
37:11
Speaker 3: And some need a lot of help and some need
37:13
Speaker 3: very little help, but they all need some form of help.
37:17
Speaker 3: And we shouldn't be abandoning our patients.
37:19
Speaker 1: No, definitely, and I think that's what certainly, you know,
37:23
Speaker 1: I've talked to people with hirshbrungs all over the world,
37:26
Speaker 1: and they had some of their doctors there and said, right,
37:31
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're sixteen eighteen. Now everything's fine, You're
37:34
Speaker 1: all cured. It was like, well you still have you know, hirshbrungs.
37:38
Speaker 1: That bit of the bow didn't suddenly grow back overnight,
37:41
Speaker 1: for example. So I think that that sort of managed care,
37:46
Speaker 1: and I think for me and again it just just personally,
37:52
Speaker 1: I felt as though, even though it wasn't going back
37:57
Speaker 1: every six weeks, three months, whatever it was, I still
38:01
Speaker 1: felt that great Orbit Street were on the end of
38:04
Speaker 1: the phone, that they were still even though I wasn't
38:08
Speaker 1: seeing anybody there, they still cared for me even though
38:12
Speaker 1: I wasn't there, which I which sort of gave me
38:16
Speaker 1: and I guess my parents as well, a great sense
38:19
Speaker 1: of security.
38:22
Speaker 2: Yeah I can, I can.
38:23
Speaker 3: I can see that that that connection and that feeling
38:25
Speaker 3: that that there's somebody you can go to again. One
38:29
Speaker 3: of the one of the stresses of transition is is
38:31
Speaker 3: family is potentially losing some of that that's the comfort
38:36
Speaker 3: of knowing that there's there's somebody they can reach out to.
38:39
Speaker 1: Absolutely so just also as we sort of wind towards
38:43
Speaker 1: the end here in terms of of your career, obviously,
38:49
Speaker 1: we've talked about a lot of things that you've achieved.
38:52
Speaker 1: Was there anything that you look back now and you
38:54
Speaker 1: think that's one thing I've achieved that I'm I'm really
38:59
Speaker 1: I mean, There'll be loads of things have been really
39:00
Speaker 1: really proud of. Was there anything specifically that stands out
39:03
Speaker 1: for you.
39:06
Speaker 3: One of the kind of passions of what I've done
39:09
Speaker 3: has been about training and been involved in training the
39:14
Speaker 3: next generation of pediatric surgeons. And you know, I look
39:18
Speaker 3: back over my career, I've probably been involved in in
39:22
Speaker 3: training I would say fifty sixty surgeons who are now
39:27
Speaker 3: practicing pediatric surgery up and down the country. And I think,
39:30
Speaker 3: if I was true be remembered with for one legacy,
39:33
Speaker 3: it would be to say that that I've been involved
39:35
Speaker 3: in training all of those people. And when I say training,
39:38
Speaker 3: what I mean is passing on everything that I'd learned
39:41
Speaker 3: from people like Lewis Bitt and Ed Carley. And I
39:45
Speaker 3: would say Ed Carley is, without a shadow of doubt,
39:47
Speaker 3: the best technical surgeon I've seen in children's surgery. Just
39:52
Speaker 3: the art and craft of his skills are immeasurable. And
39:57
Speaker 3: the little bits of that that I've been able to
40:00
Speaker 3: to reproduce, because I don't think anybody can will ever
40:03
Speaker 3: be him again.
40:04
Speaker 2: But he had a lot of.
40:05
Speaker 3: Important lessons and things that needed to be known about
40:09
Speaker 3: how to do operations safely and well and regularly. And
40:13
Speaker 3: I've done my best to try and hand that on
40:15
Speaker 3: to another generation of surgeons and hope that they will
40:18
Speaker 3: do what I've done, but do it better, and then
40:20
Speaker 3: they'll have a generation of people who will do it
40:21
Speaker 3: even better than them, and that legacy can snowball and
40:24
Speaker 3: spiral and really inspire the next generation.
40:28
Speaker 1: So it's more about about legacy for you, which again
40:33
Speaker 1: kind of ties into my lot of thoughts with Great
40:37
Speaker 1: Ormond Street that when I ask you about what are
40:41
Speaker 1: you really proud of, you talk about other people and
40:44
Speaker 1: talk about actually I care about other people and it's
40:48
Speaker 1: not about me, and it's about these other people. And
40:51
Speaker 1: that's just really really interesting because that's what I get
40:54
Speaker 1: from from Great Orbit Street. It's all about I want
40:57
Speaker 1: to care for other people. So yeah, I've had that.
41:00
Speaker 1: It's incredibly interesting, but it's it's a fantastic place and
41:07
Speaker 1: and will hopefully always be a fantastic place. For many
41:10
Speaker 1: many years to come. I know I did had to
41:14
Speaker 1: shoot off, but I know Fred's feelings on gray Ormond Street,
41:17
Speaker 1: as he mentioned before, are I cannot rate the place
41:22
Speaker 1: highly enough and and the same to me, I can't
41:26
Speaker 1: rate gray Ormond Street highly enough. I think it's it's fantastic,
41:31
Speaker 1: and I think in terms of world class care. I
41:38
Speaker 1: know there are lots of people who do lots of
41:40
Speaker 1: fantastic things. But for me, and I'm being very biased
41:45
Speaker 1: here and I make no bones about it, it will
41:47
Speaker 1: always be the best hospital in the world.
41:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's.
41:54
Speaker 3: If a hospital has to aspire, I think two want
41:59
Speaker 3: to do nothing other than the best for its patients
42:01
Speaker 3: and care for its staff who do that and the
42:05
Speaker 3: You know, I frequently operate in other hospitals around and
42:12
Speaker 3: sometimes I'm asked to get involved in some very very
42:14
Speaker 3: complex operations because people have the view that I can
42:18
Speaker 3: do really complex operations, and I'm always keen to bring
42:21
Speaker 3: them back down to earth to say, look, the only
42:23
Speaker 3: reason I can do this operation is because when I
42:26
Speaker 3: do it here, I'm surrounded by the best.
42:28
Speaker 2: I'm surrounded by.
42:30
Speaker 3: Amazing and atheists, amazing colleagues and support workers, amazing other
42:34
Speaker 3: specialties that support what I do, Nursing staff with highly
42:38
Speaker 3: specialized skills, intensive k unit that are miraculous in what
42:42
Speaker 3: they can do.
42:43
Speaker 2: That's the reason I can do what I do.
42:45
Speaker 3: You can't just take me out, put me in a
42:47
Speaker 3: field and expect me to do some of the operations
42:50
Speaker 3: that I do and expect it to work out well,
42:51
Speaker 3: because it's it's not me, it's not one person, it's
42:55
Speaker 3: the team. And it reflects about what we were talking
42:58
Speaker 3: about with conjoined twins that if if you are going
43:00
Speaker 3: to have success in that field of surgery, then you
43:04
Speaker 3: have to reflect and acknowledge the act army of people behind.
43:08
Speaker 2: You that they do that. You know, I always think
43:10
Speaker 2: of the racing car analogy.
43:11
Speaker 3: You know, there's Lewis Hamilton in his car driving around
43:14
Speaker 3: setting the world on fire. But you know, the army
43:17
Speaker 3: of people behind him who put that car together such
43:20
Speaker 3: that he can do what he does is often unseen
43:23
Speaker 3: and sometimes not potentially getting the credit they deserve. Well,
43:27
Speaker 3: I'm sure they do from their own team, but there
43:30
Speaker 3: is that group of people behind you who allow you
43:34
Speaker 3: to do what you do.
43:35
Speaker 1: So absolutely so that's a fantastic sentiment to finish on.
43:40
Speaker 1: I think all that's left for me to say is
43:42
Speaker 1: I Fred's not here, But thank you to Fred for
43:44
Speaker 1: joining me, and thank you to you for joining me.
43:48
Speaker 1: Thank you to you for everything you've done for me,
43:51
Speaker 1: my family, for Fred, for families across Great Ormond Street.
43:55
Speaker 1: Thanks to mister Spitz and mister Kylie as well. They're
44:01
Speaker 1: being integraled in saving my life. I owe my life
44:04
Speaker 1: to them and Fred as well, I know, and countless others.
44:09
Speaker 1: So thank you very much to the Magical Trio, Thank
44:13
Speaker 1: you very much for coming not.
44:15
Speaker 2: At all been an absol pleasure. Love talking to your Fred.
44:17
Speaker 2: Thank you, thanks bye bye.
44:22
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the podcast. Find us on
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