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Equity vs Equality in your relationship, which makes the most sense? · She's On The Money

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: for millennials who want financial freedom. You're currently in a
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: relationship where you own significantly more than your partner, or
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: maybe they own significantly more than you. Managing money is
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: really difficult in relationships at the best of times.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: So how do we do it when our income.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Differs dramatically from our partners. My name is Georgia King,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: and as always I am joined by financial advisor Victoria
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: devine v has the COVID just a little.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: Check in out.
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: Thank you still and I so I sound much better
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: than I did for a very significant part of last week.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: I sounded like a small, helpless baby seal well, literally,
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: we very nice.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: We sat down to record a couple of EPs and
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: you had no voice.
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: It was one of those things where that sounds silly
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: because like, obviously I should have canceled. But we'd organized
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: a very early morning record on what some people call
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: Australia Day because we just worked that day. Because hot
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: girls do not celebrate Australia Day anyway, we had an
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: eight am recording. My partner had gone to golf at
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: six am, so I hadn't spoken to anybody. Get on
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: the blower with you, and You're like, what is wrong
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: with you? And I was like, oh no and you
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: and you were like at Victoria, you sound like you've
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: got COVID And I was like, better get a test.
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: So did a rat And you've never seen a Reddit
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: covid line. Honestly, straight out the gates. She had COVID
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: and she had it bad. Yeah, so I'm still in
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: ISO until Wednesday, when this episode drops, I will have
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: my freedom back, pending a negative rat test.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: George King amazing, doll. Well, it's good to see you well,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: healthy and thriving.
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: And I have a voice. She has a voice.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Also.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: While we're on that, I'm you know, a little hungover today.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: So if my voice sounds a little different, little huskier,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: little more solitary, is.
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: Why Georgia King hung over?
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: A bit naughty from me.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Anyway, let's move on through the crux of today's show.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: You went viral a few weeks ago when discussing the
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: importance of financial.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: Equity over equality in a relationship. Okay, but I didn't
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: know that was going to go viral. I didn't know
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: that that topic was as spicy as it ended up
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: such a spicy topic. Look, it was spicy. I totally agree.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: I just didn't think i'd get the hundreds of comments
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: I got on both TikTok and Instagram. That video you're
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: talking about, George just had like two hundred thousand views
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: on Instagram and more than a million on TikTok. Now,
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: like what insane?
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: And the Daily Mail picked it up.
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: So oh yeah, she's fine, and they're just like this
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: spicy financial advisor is full of herself and keeps telling
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: us what to do with her money and the thing
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: that I was so surprised about. And I guess this
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: is what happens when things go beyond our community. Because Georgia,
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: if you'd just seen it, you would have been like,
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: good point, V. That's an interesting point of view. But
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: you would have known how I feel about money and
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: equity and equality and that I'm a wildly passionate feminist.
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: But it got onto the wrong side of TikTok, and
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: I'm still having people message me being like that's entitle Well,
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: if you earned more than your partner, you wouldn't let
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: him do that, or oh I bet she doesn't think
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: that way when it comes to her own bank accounts, like,
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: oh my god, I definitely fell onto the wrong side
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: of TikTok that day. But that's why we need to
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: talk about this, because it was such a spicy topic,
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: especially and I mean, if you've got some free time, guys,
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: go read the comments because some of them are really interesting.
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: Some of them are like, Wow, this is how I
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: do it, or sharing really interesting perspectives. Other people are like, wow,
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: I hadn't thought of this. Some people like, oh, I've
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: been doing this for years, can't believe you're only thinking
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: of it now. Other people are like, this is so entitled.
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: I would never I'm an independent woman. How dare you
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: suggest I pay less? And I was like, ooh, yeah,
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: what have I done? Jeeking? But that's what this episode
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: is about. That's what I wanted to talk about. And
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: yes that happened. I think it was two weeks ago,
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: but we took a fairwheill making sure that this episode
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: was juicy. George, we have some role place coming over.
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: We do popping on our acting hats very excited. You
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: were captain of the Drama Club, right, yeah, well, I mean.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: If there was a captain, I would have been the Captain.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I bloody loved drama.
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: I actually have the drama Captain badge from when I
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: was in Grade ten. So if you would like me
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: to come and drop that off, I can give it
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: to you.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: Amazing.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: I'll make sure it's sterilized that I don't get COVID again.
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: Wow, I am a nice lady.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: So for anyone who has no idea what we're talking
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: about here, what actually is financial equity and how does
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: it compare to financial equality.
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: Well, I think this is probably a very good place
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  Speaker 4: to start because not many people actually know the difference,
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: and they would If you don't know the difference, just
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  Speaker 4: assume that you want a quality, right, we all want
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: to be equal. But I would say in a relationship
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: from my perspective, and you need to take this episode
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: with a grain of salt as well. Like before we
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: get into this, George, I'm not saying that this is
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: the way to run your relationship. I'm not saying there
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: is only one way of managing money in a relationship,
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: because there's not. And this is just an interesting take
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: to talk about equity because from my perspective, my partner
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: and I have always operated under the assumption of equity
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: and that's kind of like what we bring to the
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: table as opposed to making sure everything is fifty to
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: fifty split. So equality is actually defined as being the
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: state of being equal, especially in status, rights, an opportunity,
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: and we want that joy. We love that like we
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: love that we want equality when it comes to men
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: and women. I want the same damn opportunities you guys have.
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: I want the same rights, I want the same status.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: I don't want to miss out on anything. And I
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: think that that's also a very common misconception when it
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: comes to feminism, that feminists want women to be treated
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  Speaker 4: better than men, And that's not it. Feminists just want
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: women to have exactly the same status, rights, and opportunities
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: that a man has. Like I want you, as a female,
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: have the same educational opportunities. I want to have the
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: same ability to generate an income. It is why I'm
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: so passionate about the gender pay gap and the wage
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: gap and all of that stuff. But on the other hand,
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: equity is defined as the quality of being fair and impartial.
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  Speaker 4: So when it comes to relationships, both of these things
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: kind of come into play, and the question arises of George,
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  Speaker 4: if you and I are in a relationship and you
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  Speaker 4: earn four hundred one thousand dollars and I earned forty
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: thousand dollars, is it equitable for you and I to
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: pay fifty to fifty ranch Well, I wouldn't have thought so.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: No, And that's obviously not the common denominator for a
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: lot of couples, right, Like it's not common for you
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: to meet a couple that one's on four hundred grand
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  Speaker 4: and the other is on forty. I mean, it does
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: absolutely happen, but more often that pay discrepancy could be George,
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: you're on seventy five k and my partner's on one fifty.
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  Speaker 4: But the difference there is actually quite significant when it
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  Speaker 4: comes to you being able to save and invest and
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: afford things you like to do and want to do,
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  Speaker 4: especially if you're trying to live a lifestyle that keeps
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: up with the partner who earns one hundred and fifty
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  Speaker 4: thousand dollars. So when it comes to finances in a relationship,
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  Speaker 4: I often think that equitable finances are preferable over equality,
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  Speaker 4: And it doesn't actually impact your ability to be an
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  Speaker 4: independent person or you know, having all rights. It's not
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: about that. It's actually about making sure that you have
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  Speaker 4: the same opportunities and things in the relationship are absolutely fair.
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  Speaker 4: So I guess that is a little bit of a
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  Speaker 4: preface because I don't want people to think that this
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  Speaker 4: is the only way to do it now, because you
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  Speaker 4: might split it differently, Like I know there are people
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  Speaker 4: in our community, George where one party doesn't pay rent
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  Speaker 4: because they do all the housework, all the cooking, all
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  Speaker 4: the everything else and the partner, the other partner, pays rent. Okay,
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  Speaker 4: no problem, moh. I know couples that split it straight
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  Speaker 4: down the middle and say, you know what, you're fifty
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  Speaker 4: percent of rent. I'm fifty percent of rent. We split
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  Speaker 4: everything to the scent. That's what works for us. We
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  Speaker 4: don't want to change it, no problems. But what we're
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: doing with this episode Georgia is introducing the concept because
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  Speaker 4: so many people hadn't heard of it. And I also
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  Speaker 4: think it's really important to discuss this because it's often
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: the lower income earner who wants to bring it up
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  Speaker 4: in conversation and doesn't feel empowered to do so.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent, And that leads kind of flawlessly to
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: my next question, which is about the question around independence.
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  Speaker 2: I guess so a lot of us, as you were
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: saying before, have been brought up to want to be,
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  Speaker 2: you know, strong independent women, and this idea for a
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: lot of people. I noticed in our Facebook group they
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: were really worried that it meant that they would be
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  Speaker 2: stripped of their independence and that if they're not contributing
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: fifty percent, then you know, they've let themselves down and
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: their partner down.
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  Speaker 4: But that is not the case, Absolutely not the case.
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  Speaker 4: And I think it's such a common misconception. Do you
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: know what it feels that way? Because if we take
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: a little bit of a step back and let's play
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: pretend for a second, because there's going to be a
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: lot of that in this episode. But George, you and
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: I are housemates. You've got your own life. I've got
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: my own life. We have a very cute apartment. Where
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: do we want to live? We want to live in Fitzroy.
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: That's fancy. Got this apartment in Fitzroy and I pay
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: fifty percent rent, You pay fifty percent rent, and we
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: split bills equally. You're still on your four hundred thousand
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: dollars a year, but I'm on forty thousand dollars a
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: year from my perspective, my financial situation is not your business.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: It is not my business what you won't because we
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: are not codependent, We are not in a relationship together.
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: Our finances aren't intertwined in a way where my success
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: and you know, my goals and my hopes and dreams
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: for the future tied up in your ability to generate
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: income and vice versa. So we split rent equally because
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: I'm just paying for that room in that house. Because
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: I saw the job at on renters dot com or
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: whatever it is, and I saw two hundred and fifty
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: bucks a week rent and I was like, yeah, no problems.
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: I'm going to sign up to that, because that was
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: the commitment I made to being a housemate. From my perspective,
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: that entire dynamic changes when you get into a relationship
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: and there are a lot more things going on. So
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: being an independent person is making sure we're not being
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: taken advantage of in any situation. It's about making sure
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: that you are advocating for yourself and if somebody in
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: a relationship is earning significantly more and therefore is able
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: to save or invest, when that opportunity is not extended
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: to you, you have to advocate for yourself the other
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: thing to mention, and this is not going to be
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: the same for everyone, because obviously this changes in same
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: sex relationships, but in many heteronormative relationships it's often the
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: male who will be earning more because, as we know
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: Georgia King, the gender pay gap is a very real thing,
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: and we know male dominated industries tend to be remunerated
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: more generously than female dominated industries. So I think it's
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: important to put that on the table that you know,
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: same sex relationships could be even worse off when it
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: comes to stuff like this as well, because you don't
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: know where you stand, or maybe you don't know how
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: to have that conversation, or you're both in female dominated
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: industries and you're not being paid properly to begin with.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: Don't even start me on that. But when it comes
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: to being an independent person, you don't need to penalize
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: yourself when social structures already do that for us Yank cheers, babes,
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: but you don't need to do it to yourself. And
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: basically what we need to do is reframe our thinking
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: around this and understand that if you're the one who
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: is suggesting to contribute less because you earn less, that
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: does not make you any less independent, and there's no
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: such thing as less valuable work. Full stop, end up story.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: The podcast can.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Probably end there, Yeah, one hundred percent. One of the
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: themes that came up in the responses to your video
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: V was the idea of people saying I worked hard
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: for my money.
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: I study, read, start me or this this episode's going
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: to true me, but carry on, George.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: So basically they're saying I worked harder, so I deserve more,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: whereas my partner I didn't go to UNI is working
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: a lower income jobs. So why is that on me
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: to like foot the bill?
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: Basically, one get in the bin with that opinion, because
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: I don't like it. In saying that, I just want
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: to be really clear here that people who earn less
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: don't work less or not as hard as a high
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: income like at the end of the day, Yes, if
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: you are going above and beyond, and there is a
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: different set of rules than what we are assuming when
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: having this conversation, Georgia, and for the purposes of this conversation,
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: we are assuming that two individuals have different incomes but
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: are both working forty hour weeks. Because I had a
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: couple of dms from people who are like, oh, they
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: should this still apply because I earn a lot more
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: than my partner, but I also work my forty hour
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: nine to five Monday to Friday job. But then I
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: also like do extra hours on the weekends and like
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: give up my free time so that I can invest
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: more or save more or I've got these financial goals.
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: Does that mean I should be contributing more? Like, no,
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: every situation is literally different, and if your partner is
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: choosing to not do that, then you don't have to
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: take that part into a consideration. But when it comes
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: to being equitable in a relationship, it's just making sure
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: your partner's okay as well. Just because you did not
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: go to university or you don't have a high flying
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: corporate job that pays an excessive amount of money doesn't
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: mean that you don't work hard. And I find it
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: really I don't know, I'm probably going to get really
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: opinionated on this when that should not be the purpose
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: of this. So I do apologize, but it really frustrates
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: me when people are like, Okay, but I chose to
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: study and my partner didn't. It's like, okay, let's sit
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: down for a hot second. Georgia, where's your privilege? How
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: come you studied? How come your partner didn't. The answer
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: might be your partner just didn't want to, and that's cool.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: That's conversation that you guys can have. But more often
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: than not, if you see an individual who's had a
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: full tertiary education and has gotten a degree, there is
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: going to be a significant amount of privilege playing to that.
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: Whether that is they worked their asses off during university
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: years so that they could have a full time income,
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: pay rent, you know, pay rent, pay their bills, and
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: go to university, and they've just hustled their butts off.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: But Georgia, that is a type of privilege, whether you're
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: working hard or not, because that's something that not a
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: lot of people have the ability to do. Or it
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: might be what we see is stereotypical privilege where they
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: went to private school, their parents were really wealthy, and
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: their parents paid for them to have a free ride
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: at university. I totally get that, but that doesn't mean
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: that your partner should be put down because you have
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: a degree and your partner doesn't like I don't know,
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: it just feels a little bit icky to me, And
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: I mean, we've spoken about it on the show before,
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: so privilege and talking about our privilege shouldn't come as
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: a surprise in this conversation. But there's so much more
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: nuance to this conversation than just saying I work harder
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: and that's why I don't think I should have to
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: pay more because I have a degree and my partner
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: didn't bother going to university. Like that, to me is
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: real ikey in saying that. As Jazgrechi pointed out on
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: a Friday Show recently, if your partner has chosen a
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: life where work is not a priority, and you absolutely have, example,
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: they only want to work part time so that they
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: have more leisure time, so on and so forth, Or
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: if they blow all their money on the weekends, or
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: if they like going out partying and you want to
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: save and they just don't have the same priorities as you,
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: then it shouldn't be expected that you pick up the
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: slack to fund their lifestyle choices. Like that is not
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: what we are saying here. So if you want to
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: and it works for your relationship, then by all means,
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: go for it, but please make sure the other person
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: isn't taking you for a bit of a ride. If
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: you're going to choose this, because I think that one
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: of the really overwhelming comments was like, oh, I don't
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: want to pay more because then the other person is
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: going to take advantage of that not have to work
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: as hard because they know that I'll always pay more.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: This is an ongoing conversation, definitely, Sometimes one person earns more,
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: sometimes the other person earns lass. Like George, this isn't
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: a set and forget conversational system. This is a I
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: want our relation to be equitable. Let's always make sure
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: that's a priority in this relationship conversation.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I want to move now via to talk
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: talking about domestic labor and traditional household norms and how
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: they play into all of this. So, for example, we
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: say you have kids and you're out of the workforce,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: but you carry the weight of the domestic load. How
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: do we value a contribution that's harder to measure? Can
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: we absolutely ditch the notion that a contribution is financial?
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Can we put that in the bin. That's why we
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: talk about equity. I didn't say financial equity, did I?
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: I said equity in a relationship. What you bring to
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: the table has a lot of value. And you know
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: what domestic work if we added it up really expensive.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: There was a research paper done. I can't remember what
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: it was.
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: It would have been five or six years ago because
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: I've been ranting about it for that long where if
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: you took a stay at home mum out of quote
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: the workforce so said sorry, stay at home mum, you
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: can't do this anymore. What that would have been worth
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: to the family. It's about one hundred and sixty thousand
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: dollars a year.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: So if we really want to put finances to it,
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: stay at home mums, they're worth a lot. So sorry, V.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Does that mean if you took the mother out of
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: the primary care and replace them with like a nanny
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: or put them into childcare?
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: Like, what is that value that you're talking about?
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so that would be the replacement. I actually talk
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: about this a lot with clients when I'm talking about insurance,
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: because as a stay at home mum, you can't actually
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: get income protection. And as you guys know, income protection
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: is my favorite insurance personally, and it's the one thing
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: that I wouldn't want to get rid of. But it's
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: so interesting when you have you know, couples come in
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: and say, hey, thee like, want to set up my insurances.
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: My partner here and so much money, don't worry about me.
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: I hold up, Hold up there, George King, You're worth
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: actually a lot, because what would your partner do if
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: you know, sadly you passed away yesterday? How were you
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: going to look after your family? Because is your partner
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: going to pick up that slack? And you're right, you
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: could look at having a nanny, but it's all of
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: the other domestic lab and I guess traditional household norms
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: that come into this. It's not the forty hours a
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: week you might have a nanny salaried. It's the tidying
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: up the house. It's the cooking, it's the being the taxi.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: It's the management of calendars. It's going to and from
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: sporting events. It's everything that a mum does that they
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: don't see value in themselves, because I think that parents
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: in general, especially female parents, are very quick to go, oh,
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: but I don't earn money, so I'm not contributing. And
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: that's where as I said before, I really want to
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: break down this notion that equity in a relationship has
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: to be financial, because, as we already know Georgia women
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: on average, do five hours more domestic labor than men
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: each and every single week, not surprising. Nobody's shocked and
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: the crowd full silent. Yeah, it's one of those things
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: where I think that we need to stop trying to measure, like,
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: stop telling me what's it worth? What's it worth? Sit
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: down with your partner, renegotiate it. Hell, you could renegotiate
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: it even if you're on the same incum I might go, George,
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: we both earned fifty grand a year. You hate cooking.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: How about we renegotiate you pay more rent? Oh, you
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: all the cooking? You go, deal of the century. Yes, please,
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: I'll pay seventy percent rent. You pay thirty Because you're
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: picking up some of this equity in this relationship. That's
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: now your responsibility, and I'm very happy to pay more
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: than you to get that benefit in this relationship. Like
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: we're not saying that you actually even have to have
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: a different type of salary than your partner to have
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: this negotiation about equity in a relationship. Because equity, I
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: think needs to be spoken about more. And I don't
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: know what Steve's mum did to him as a child, Georgia,
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: but he is one of the most respectful people you
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: will ever meet. Like, you know, Steve Blat shock everybody.
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: Like when you used to come over, you'd be like,
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: is he vacuuming? Is he clean? He's very in a house. Yeah,
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: Like he is an absolute legend because he was brought
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: up Like it's our house, we share chores, Like it's
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: not a Victoria job or a Steve job. If there
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: is a job around our house that just needs doing,
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: he just does it, which still shocks me literally years
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: later that if I put on a load of washing
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: and he hears it beep, he'll go and get it
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: out and hang it up because it was just a
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: job that needed doing. What a dull But that blows
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: so many people's minds, and to me, it still blows
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: my mind because that's not how I saw equity in
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: a relationship. I don't think there has to be certain
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: roles when it comes to this, but equity in a
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: relationship we need to talk about it. But let's make
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: sure that you realize it doesn't have to be just financial.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: One hundred percent.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: How do we achieve equity when it comes to super
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: v Because as we've spoken about on the pod before,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: there is that enormous gap between the super the stay
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: at home parent and the person who gets to push
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: through and continue to work, which can be massively detrimental
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: down the line, especially if they split and you can't
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: access their super And we do know one in two
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: marriages ends in divorce. Is that the stat something.
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: I really needed to know that planning my wedding. Thank
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: you you will go well, thank you? Thank you? Have
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: you thought super? That's my question. This is such a
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: controversial conversation, but I do believe that if you are
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: going to talk about superannuation as a couple, we need
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: to talk about what happens if one party of that
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: relationship is going to take some serious time off, Like
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: it doesn't necessarily have to be a parent, Like you
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: could be taking a whole heap of time off to
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: you know, support your partner who is you know, being
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: a doctor. So we've got a She's on the Money
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: community member. She is an absolute delight. She's been on
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: the pod before. She's actually just moved to America because
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: her partner is becoming a resident, which is like a
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: fancy doc during the US, and has to do a
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: lot of work because she's registered here to work in Australia.
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: She actually can't do her work internationally, so she's taking
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: some serious time off to support her partner's venture, which
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: I admire. I honestly think it's really important. But she
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: approached me before she left and said, how do I
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: talk to my partner about my super because I don't
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: want to fall behind? And that is such an important conversation.
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: And this conversation actually stretches into the stay at home
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: parent conversation. Yeah, because as we said before, equity in
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: relationships is not always financial, but there's always a financial impact.
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: So we need to talk about what is going to
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: happen to your super George when you take time off
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: because you and I have just had a baby. Are
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: you just going to take the hit and hope that
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: we don't get a divorce down the track and you know,
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: just be behind in general, because don't worry when we
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: retire it all be pulled together anyway. Because if that's
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: the case, why do men have such an issue putting
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: extra contributions into their partners supranuation. So we absolutely should
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: be making the time to have the conversation. If you're
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: going to take time off to contribute equity to a
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: relationship in a way that is not financial. To make
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: sure that you're not financially disadvantaged for that contribution, because
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: it doesn't mean you're not contributing to the relationship. It
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: just means that that contribution at that point in time
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: is not necessarily financial. And that's okay. But I also
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: have a few stats do Kingty of our friends thank
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: you at the Australian Human Rights Commission and stat one,
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: women have significantly less money saved for retirement. Half of
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: all women aged forty five to fifty nine have eight
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: thousand dollars or less in their supranuation funds compared to
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: thirty one thousand dollars for men. That's shockingly low. That's
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: gross questionenders, isn't it. It's yes, But it's also really
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: important for you to remember that superanuation was only mandated
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety two, meaning if you worked before then,
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: your employer did not have to pay you superannuation. As
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: a millennial, we are very lucky in that every job
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: we have had as millennials has meant that superannuation was mandatory.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: Like employeers, it's not a choice, whereas pre nineteen ninety
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: two it was a thing that some companies did and
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: some didn't. So it's really important to understand that because
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: when we look at stats like this, yes, women are
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: worse off, Yes, like thirty one thousand dollars at that age,
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: you would go wow, like that's not enough. But there's
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: good reason for that, and it's all about it not
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: being mandated. When they started gotcha professionally in saying that
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: that's like a third like women. Literally, I just yeah, like,
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: oh thanks, sorry, sorry, sorry, yeah, I'm a financial advisor.
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: But you can see that that discrepancy runs deep, and
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: it still runs deep today, regardless of whether it was
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: mandated or not. Women tend to have fun less super
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: than men. Second stat I want to share with you, George,
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: is currently the average superannuation payout for women is a
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: third of the payout for men, which is thirty seven
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: thousand dollars compared to one hundred and ten thousand dollars
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: for men. So I'm still not happy with that. That's
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: why I started cheese on the money. George, Yeah, exactly.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: You wait, when I'm retiring, I'm gonna be like it
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: was one hundred and fifty thousand dollars for women and
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: four dollars for men. No, No, that is in direct
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: conflict to me wanting a quality. And then Georgia, we
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: have stat three in Australia, women working full time today
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: earn sixteen percent less than men. Jeez, Louise Mood. We
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: don't like that. Those stats don't cater to us being
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: able to financially contribute nearly as much equity as a
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: man can. Also, the interesting thing about statistics in these
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: human rights commissions, as much as I love sharing statistics,
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: we don't have a lot of statistics on our LGBTQIA
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: plus communities. We don't have those same statistics for our
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: community who is experiencing disability or any kind of disadvantage.
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: It doesn't take those things into consideration. And I can
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: bet my bottom dollar that the discrepancy between women and
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: those communities is really big, and the discrepancy between those
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: communities and men is even bigger. So don't come at
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: me because I don't have the stats, because if I
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: had the stats, I'd be throwing them at you.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, the stats don't exist yet. That, yeah, I'm
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: proaching that is changing surely, if.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: It's changing slowly, we're starting to see it. But it's
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: very hard to collect I guess such significant amounts of
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: data on these communities because often they don't want to
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: contribute either. I mean that's not to say that there
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: aren't communities that like advocate for us, we want to
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: share our data, we want to be heard. Those do exist.
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: But as you can imagine, Georgia, if you're disabled and
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: need to fill in a survey, but you can't read
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: the survey or jump on a computer or have the
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: ability to do that, like, you're probably just going to
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: opt out because it's too hard. So anyway, moving.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: On, So in terms of what we can actually be doing,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: then V can't you contribute to your partner's account or
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: something that's solution?
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: Maybe yeah, you can salary sacrifice into someone else's superannuation,
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: which I think is a really great option, especially if
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: you're worried about, you know, being left behind when it
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: comes to superanuation and retirement. And I think that how
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: do you say this without being rude, George, I think
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: that any partner would welcome that conversation because why wouldn't
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: you want your wife or your partner or your spouse
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: to be in a good financial situation that is equal
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: to yours? Why would you want anything less than equality
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: in a relationship. But the first thing here is to
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: really chat to your partner about contributions. I would be
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: trying to do that really early on in the relationship
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: as well. It can be a hard conversation because so
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: many families have to budget to have kids, right, Like,
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: kids are expensive. But let's make sure those super contributions
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: are a part of the conversation before you become pregnant,
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: because it's hard to bring it up after if you're
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: on a strict budget and then you're like, well, I
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: want super contributions to your partner's like, oh my god,
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: Like that's so much money in addition to the already
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: expensive lifestyle that we're about to live where you're not
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: financially contributing for twelve months, and then I'm under more pressure,
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: like let's make sure this isn't a surprise and makes
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: your spouse or partner feel more pressure more that this
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: is just what it is. But your partner can actually
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: contribute up to eighty five percent of their superannuation contributions,
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: and they can do it just after the end of
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: the financial year in a lump sum as well, so
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: you don't even need to set up something. You could
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: dump some cash in there once you realize how much
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: extra cash you've got left over us to having the
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: baby as well, So don't feel like it has to
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: absolutely happen in the moment and be replaced when your
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: normal super contributions happen. You can do it later, but
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: let's make sure it doesn't fall off the bandwagon when
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: it comes to the conversation around baby making and gee.
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: The added benefit of doing this is that the person
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: making the contributions can actually claim an eighteen percent tax
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: offset up to three grand. But there's obviously certain eligibility
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: criteria involved in that too, we'll have to check it,
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: but that's more than the standard fifteen percent, so there's
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: a little bit of an incentive there to get that done.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Interesting, I imagine as well, be it would be a
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: tricky thing to bring up with your partner because obviously,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: if you're starting a family together, you would have the
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: intentions of staying together forever. So I can imagine partners
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: might say, well, why would I contribute to your super?
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Your super is my super. We're going to retire together anyway.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: But as I said before, like the stats show that
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: a lot of us don't end up together, which means
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: that usually the woman is significantly disadvantaged at retirement because
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: they don't have that super yea, So how do you
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: kind of navigate that conversation.
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: I think that conversation is exactly how you have it.
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: You kind of go okay, like totally get that that's
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: the plan. Yeah, but you know, stats tell us that
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: you know, some marriages break up. Honey, I love you dearly,
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: but I also want to feel like I'm not losing
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: my independence by making a decision to contribute a different
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: type of equity to this relationship. So unless you want
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: to renegotiate maybe the parenting on this, maybe you work
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: part time and I work part time, so most of
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: your branuation is not taking a hit. And they might
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: go no, and then you can go, okay, no problems,
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: but like that's how we're going to split it, because
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: I do want this relationship to be equitable, and I'm
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: just trying to find a solution so that I don't
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: end up being financially hit and behind because I really
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: do value my independence and I think that any reasonable
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: person would go, oh, actually that's a good point. That's
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: a really good point, because now let's be a little
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: bit stereotypical here. And I'm not being stereotypical because I'm like,
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: oh my gosh, this is the way it should be.
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: But like I am thirty, which is now kind of
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: terrifying because Yo, to all my friends, they're falling pregnant
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: on purpose, Like that said, I know, fact they're doing
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: it on purpose, Like that wasn't an accident. Oh okay,
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: Like it still shocks me. I'm like, oh my god,
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: she was married for two years and then she got pregnant.
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: Do you reckon? She meant that, Steve. But from my
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: experience understanding my friend's mindsets, a lot of them are like, no,
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: I really want to be the stay at home parent,
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: and I really want to do that, Like I've looked
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: forward to it my entire life, and I totally get that.
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: It's not saying that the partner should, you know, take
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: that away from you if that's what you want to do.
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: But we really have to make sure that our partners
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: do know that that's a type of equity that you're
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: contributing to this relationship, because I don't know, they need
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: to see your value too.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Jki Oh Hondy p Also like you could encourage them
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: to listen to this episode as well.
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: If you just they won't like me. They won't like me.
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: But that's okay. I mean, this is probably not the
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: episode that I would have picked as an introduction to
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: She's on the Money and Georgia King and what Victorian
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: divines like because I'm pretty fired up, I'm pretty annoyed.
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: But maybe we should take a little breather. Georgia, absolutely,
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: let's head to a break.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: But on the other side, we will be discussing if
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: this rule of equity still applies when we're saving for
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: a home deposit. As teased earlier in the show, We're
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: going to be doing our little role play.
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: Oh if you are so lucky.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's stick around for that no costume, so
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: no costumes. Straight back into it V, let's talk about property.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on saving for a house deposit
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: and then potentially paying off the mortgage if you do
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: both earn different amounts, orf Jeogiah King.
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: I love this question because there are so many moving
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: parts to this conversation. A lot of young couples nowadays
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: have their number one goal as buying house, and then
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: you might sit them down and go all right, Ve,
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: you want to buy a house with George? I go, yep,
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: are you going to be together forever? You might go,
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: I don't know, but I know I really want to
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: own a house, and it's a really good investment and
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: I don't think i'll regret that investment. We're going to
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: make sure we have a really good, binding financial agreement
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: and like we're on the same page that if we
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: do break up, like we'll sell or we'll do this,
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: because I think that in you know, it's twenty twenty
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: two now, and the housing market is arguably incredibly hard
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: to get into. So often a way to get into
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: the market that is a little bit less arduous, a
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: little bit easier, is to have somebody else to do
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: that with. So I feel like I'm seeing a lot
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: of couple's purchase properties when they aren't entirely sure what
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: their future holds. I wouldn't recommend that, but I think
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: it is a really good conversation to have, because if
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: we're talking about equity in a relationship and you're like, well,
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: I want to own fifty percent of this property, then
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: that's going to change the way this conversation happens. Whereas
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: George We'll go back to the example that I was
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: making before, where you're earning four hundred thousand dollars and
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: I'm earning forty thousand dollars, and you and I sit
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: down and we go, George, what do we want for
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: our lives? And you go, oh, I love to have
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: a couple of kids, love to get married. But before
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: I do all that, we'd love to own a property.
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: And I goal real hard because I'm like, I own
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: forty grand Like saving for a property that George wants
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: is going to take me forever, and then I'm not
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: going to feel like I'm contributing. I like, we need
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: to have this conversation. So Gee, I don't think it's
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: a conversation where we both definitely have to contribute fifty percent,
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: because you might go, oh, but Ve, I'm going to
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: marry you and we're going to be together forever, so
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: I don't particularly care who does it. You save what
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: you can, I'll save what I can. We'll scrape together
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: a deposit, and then you know, in our binding financial agreement,
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: shit hits the van, I'll own seventy percent of it
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: and you just own thirty percent, and we'll call it
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: a day. That way, and I go, okay, no problems.
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: That seems fair and equitable. Another outcome of that situation
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: might they all right, well, feel like you're going to
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: get half of my stuff anyway, so it doesn't matter
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: hin or there. Because that's how the legal system is
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: actually going to start that conversation. If you are going
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: through you know, separation or divorce proceedings, They're going to
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: start at an equal fifty percent and then work it
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: out from there. You might end up with more or
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: I might end up with more, but it's very different.
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: But I think that the conversation about equity when it
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: comes to saving for a house deposit is exactly the
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: same as when I'm talking about rent and when I'm
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: talking about splitting bills. You need to have this conversation.
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: It is a very personal conversation. You might, George, agree
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: to be contributing more. Is there anybody else's business? No?
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: Absolutely not. But you and I might go, all right, well, George,
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: you've got so much more money than me. I think
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: that we should have a binding financial agreement so that
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: when we do buy this house. Shit hits a fan,
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: I'm just going to be able to take my initial
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: amount for the deposit back out. But then when it
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: comes to mortgage repayments, we're not going to talk about
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: this seventy thirty you own, I own mortgage repayments because
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: I'm contributing equity in a different way to this relationship.
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: Any mortgage repayments will be seen as fifty to fifty
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: because that's how it's going to work. But if you
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: really want to protect that deposit, I totally get that,
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: because that is a large lump sum of money. But
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: at the end of the day, you should be contributing
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: fifty to fifty to a relationship anyway, right, Like George,
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: I shouldn't be doing all the housework unless there's been
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: a conversation about that where I do more than you
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: because you do something else, or I hate unloading the dishwasher,
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: so I clean the bathrooms and you do the dishwasher.
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: Always like I feel like this is such a personal conversation.
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: But I have had friends in that situation, and the
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: outcome that they come to is making sure you have
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: a binding financial agreement for the deposit if that ever
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: gets split, and any mortgage repayments after that are seen
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: as fifty to fifty. Even if you're paying seventy and
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: I'm paying thirty because I don't want my means to
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: absolutely be blown out to achieve a financial goal that
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: might have not been mine in the first place.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: Right, And if you didn't have a binding financial agreement
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: and you did break up down the line and.
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: Things got messy, would they just split.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: It in half regardless of who contributed more? Or does
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: it just depend.
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: It's such a spicy area because it depends who your
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: lawyer is, it depends what proof you have. But I
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: would be getting in writing making sure even if that's
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: just an email, Hey George, I'm paying thirty percent, You're
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: paying seventy percent. Love you get it in writing. Love
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: you have a good day, honeyby. But even if you
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: don't want to have a binding financial agreement, I just
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: I'm such a strong believer of creating a paper trail,
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: create the proof that you might need in the future
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: for both of your sakes. Because I've said this before,
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: binding financial agreement should be a waste of money, Like
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: we should spend this money on this agreement and never
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: have to rely on it, and you can pay for that.
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: Or if you're like the we just are so strapped
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: for cash sit down together, talk about it. Make your
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: own little agreement, because that's better than nothing. Like I'd
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: prefer you to have something rather than nothing, where it
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: might be a piece of paper where you both sat
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: down and you both signed it, and you're right, it's
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: not a legally enforceable document. But when you come to
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: a breakup, I might be like, yeah, George, I know
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: you cheated on me, but we did agree that this
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: was going to be the outcome and we were both
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: happy with it, so let's do that. Also, don't cheat
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: on me, George, Yeah.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: I promise.
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: So.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Kind of still on that property line of thinking, then
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: if say Harper and I, for example, if I just
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: wanted to buy the house because I was in the
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: financial position to do so and it had nothing to
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: do with him, do you think it's too naughty to
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: maybe request that he paid rent. Absolutely not, because this
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: was controversial in the Facebook group people.
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: Absolutely not. And we know that Jess is just about this, like, yes,
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: she's spoken about this on an episode before. She's going
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: through the pre approval process, and she's buying the house
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: on her own despite being madly in love with James.
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: They're just not at the same stages in life, like
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: they've spoken about it historically, like James is still studying
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: and just is so supportive of that, And I think
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: that that's a really beautiful situation to be in. But again,
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: it's a super personal decision, and lots of people have
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: lots of mixed feelings about this. Some people think that
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: if their partner has a house, that their partner doesn't
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: have to be contributing to the mortgage because it's their
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: partner's mortgage and it's their wealth, and you shouldn't have
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: to contribute to that because you should be contributing to
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: your own wealth. And I think it's perfectly acceptable for
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: you to be asking them for rent money, like if
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: that is the roof that is going over their heads,
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: I think that they should be paying rent. But I
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: do think that there should be a clear delineation between
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: them paying rent not them paying your mortgage, because yes,
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: it's kind of here or there in a way, Like George,
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: if you give me two hundred bucks this week for rent,
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: of course I'm going to put it against my mortgage,
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: but that is not what it is intended for. Like
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: you're paying rent and that.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Rent to be clear, Yeah, if you were living somewhere else.
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: But people were pretty.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Salty about the idea that you paying rent for your
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: partner's property is contributing to something that you have no
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: ownership over. Yeah, contributing to your own wealth. You're contributing
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: to theirs. People like that's dodgy.
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: But I don't think that's dodgy in any way, shape
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: or form. I think you really need to have a
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: think about why you feel that way. Is it because
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: you want to buy your own house? Is it because
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: they had a pre existing asset? Like, at the end
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: of the day, as you said before, George, you're going
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: to have to put a roof over your head. So
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: if you don't want to live at your partners because
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: you don't want to make them wealthy because you're paying
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: them rent, move out. Honestly, I'm a pretty black and
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: white person. I would feel that paying rent to my
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: partner is very fair. In saying that, I think that
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: the rent should be absolutely fair for the location as well.
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: So I don't think it would be fair for you
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: to move into my place, George as my partner. And
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: then I say, well, half the mortgage is four hundred
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: dollars a week and you have to pay that as
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: rent and you go, but the average rent around his
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: two hundred bucks a week, Like that seems a bit steep. Yeah,
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: Like I think if they've taken on an asset and
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: they have gotten a mortgage, your rent should be equal
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: to what rent is in that location to keep things fair.
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: Not necessarily oh well, half the mortgage is this, and
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: then you feel like you're creating their wealth. Like that's
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: not fair.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: I feel like we'ren't really talking about relationships with the
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: other person's real asshole I know.
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: Best for us. I was talking to Steve about this
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: and this is showing my privilege, Like he was like,
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: why do you have to do that episode? And I
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: was like, because because I do, honey, yeah, and he
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: was yeah. He was just shocked that this was something
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: that really needed to be spelled out. And I just, honestly,
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: I've been in other relationships. Please don't get me wrong.
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: I have kissed toads, like yeah, look, we all have.
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: I've just lucked out with Steve and that's why I'm
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: trying to lock him down. Guys like, so far, so good.
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: We just need to make it to November for the
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: wedding because that's all booked and ready. But I feel
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: very lucky that that is the I guess outlook that
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: my partner has. I do know that that's not the
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: outlook that a lot of people have, though.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, And that's why it is so important that
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: we are talking about this today in terms of the
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: nuts and bolts of it V, in terms of figuring
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: out who should contribute what, how do you actually do
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: that because it sounds like a mathematical nightmare. You and
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: I are both not great at maths, so it's my
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: ex excuse me, seek.
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: Start starts goed wrong before. Look, I'm just not very
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: smart when I'm trying to sound smart, you know. But
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: in terms of figuring out what you could or would
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: be doing, it's totally up to you. And it's such
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: a moving conversation. It might be set and forget and
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: then new finish UNI and you need to renegotiate those terms.
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: Or you know, your partner might get a massive pay
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: rise and then you need to renegotiate it. Or you
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: might take a different job and a step back in
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: career so that you know, in a couple of years
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: you can sling shot forward Like there are lots of
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: moving parts and as we said it's not set and forget,
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: but you and your partner might agree that contributing forty
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: percent of your incomes to a shared expenses account is
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: a good way of managing it. You may go more,
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: you may go less. It's honestly completely up to you
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: and what works for the expenses that you guys have.
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: But choosing a percent that both of you contribute does
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: work for a lot of couples. That doesn't mean that
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: you should have to have joint accounts. You could just
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: pay a different percent of rent. I know that when
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: it comes to rental agreements nowadays you can actually change
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: the percentage on the actual agreement, so you don't have
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: to have any kind of shared finances. However, Gee, what
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: is really important to remember, and what I saw people
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: talking about on the thread that you posted recently on
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: this topic in our Facebook group, was that financial contribution
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: isn't the only type of contribution. And I can't say
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: that loud enough. I can't say that enough times on
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: this episode. But if you have greater responsibilities in the household,
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: or you're looking after the kids a few days a week,
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: well your partner is working full time, we really need
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: to establish what that non financial but extremely important contribution
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: is worth to your relationship. And all I can tell
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: you is it is worth a lot, I promise you.
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: But it's not something that you know should be swept
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: to the side. And we only talk about finances GM.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: So you said forty percent there in your experience, is
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: that kind of the standard?
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: Look, it seems to be the standard. It is definitely not,
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: you know, the goal. As you know, G. I don't
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: believe in percentage based budgets because I think that they're
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: unrealistic for different types of financial circumstances. But I think
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: sitting down and going, well, what are our expenses and
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: rent might be, you know, twelve hundred bucks each month,
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: so work that out. Then you work out what bills are,
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: and then work out what everything else is and work
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: out what that means. Like if you're living in a
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: capital city, G might be like sixty or seventy percent
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: of your income because you live in a really expensive
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: part of town and you're both unied students, so you
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: don't actually have that much income coming in in comparison
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: to your expenses, or mybe twenty percent, Like who knows
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: it changes and what I don't want you guys to
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: get from this is a Victoria said forty percent, Like
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: that's on average what I see people doing. But when
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: it comes to working out the math, as we talked
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: about it before, like there could be a standard conversation, right,
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: So if you both work out what your annual salaries
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: are after tax, take that amount, divide it by twelve
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: to get to a monthly figure each. Then next add
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: your income after tax, net your income, so what is
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: coming into your bank account together to calculate a joint income.
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: So your monthly amount plus my monthly amount. Then divide
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: each individual's income by this joint income figure and then
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: times it on your phone by one hundred, and that
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: will give you a percentage amount. And that's where the
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: conversation can start. That's not necessarily saying that, oh my gosh,
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: like that's the b all end all Like that might
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: come out as G, you're sixty, I'm forty, and then
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: we might go off, E, you're forty. But also G
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: does so much more of the housework. You do next
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: to nothing here here and here, Victoria, you don't do
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: all these things. Let's sett al on forty five to
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: fifty five, or you might go, hey, g it's come
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: out as twenty five seventy five. Let's renegotiate this because
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: it just doesn't feel right for our personal situations. But
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: it's a really good conversation starter to go. This is
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: what that split looks like because of how much more
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: one person earns than the other.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing, Okay, that's cool. I had a couple more questions.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: This is just such a big topic. I feel like
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: we could talk all day.
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: We literally could. I could jump up and down for
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: a very long time about that top exactly.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, maybe we should do a follow
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: up episode, but I feel like maybe it's time that
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: we are donned the drama caps and got into character.
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: And I'll get my drama badge out and I will
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: put it on, and then you get your drama hat
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: and we're ready. Gee, what are we doing? Okay, So
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: give us a situation.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: So the way this is going to play out is
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be the partner who is perhaps responding
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: negatively to the conversation that you're having. So you're bringing
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: up with me the proposition of financial equity within the relationship,
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: and I am responding as Okay, I like undesirable partner.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: I guess, so.
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: You're my undesirable partner, George. Yes, okay, okay. I like
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: this so fast, so good, so good. Do you feel
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: like you're in character?
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: I do? Actually?
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: Okay, cool, me too.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: The hangover helps, I think, yeah, okay, okay, So let's
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: start out V. I think with you broaching the conversation
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: with me. If that's okay, I'm really director's hat now
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: a good direction, So go ahead, welcome back to my house.
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: All right, thank you for letting me in your house
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: to have this conversation. But I think before we actually
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: have this conversation, Gee, side step, it's really important to
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: acknowledge that this person might not be ready for this conversation,
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: Like you have had the time and the reflection space
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: to go or I need to talk to G about this.
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: What am I going to do? Maybe you've googled some things,
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: Maybe you've done some you know, notes on the back
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: of an envelope. Maybe you've had the time and you've
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: had the grace to sit down and go all right,
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: this afternoon, when G gets back from work, I'm going
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: to talk to her. So you need to be aware
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: that this person might not be ready for this conversation,
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: and you really need to prime that. And I think
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: that it is only fair to prime for a conversation
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: like this, because you can't just catch someone off guard
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: if you've never talked about income in a way. At
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: the end of the day, money can be awkward to
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: talk about. We are very lucky in she's on the
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: money that you know, Gee, you and I talk about
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: cash all the time. We talk about money I do
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: with my partner, Jess does the same thing, like it
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: is second nature to us, but it is not second
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: nature to most people. So please be aware that with
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: any of these conversations, you're very likely to catch your
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: partner off guard. They're not going to know what to reply.
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: Might be the first time that even considered a concept
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: like that. So maybe before we have this conversation, Ge,
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: we wind back to the morning, and in the morning,
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: I might say, hey, Gee, hope you have a really
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: good day at work. Actually when you get home. I've
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: been listening to this podcast, and this podcast it's been
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: telling me to have a conversation with my partner about
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: splitting income differently, because you know, you make so much
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: more money than me. But let's have that conversation later.
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: So your partner knows that they're coming into the house
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: to have this conversation. You're not springing it on them.
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: So I think that's a really important piece of homework
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: that we all need to be doing. We could actually
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: do that in a lot of different places. Like, George,
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: you might really want to go to a party on
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: the weekend and I don't really want to go. I
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: might go, oh, look, George, when you get home, let's
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: have a talk about that party because I'm just not
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: sure about my feelings. You are planting the seed that
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: you want to talk about it. You're not catching them
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: completely off guard with an opinion they might not have
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: seen coming. I'm not saying that every partner needs this,
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: but I absolutely would use your discretion when it comes
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: to that. So, Gee, that was the morning. You've just
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: walked in from work and we're going to have this conversation.
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: You've if you've got a bevy, had a bit.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: Yep, I've got my best I've just a couch.
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: And we're going to have a chat. And I'm going
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: to say, so, ge this podcast that I was listening
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: to said that we should talk about equity in our relationship,
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: and you know, they were talking about how equity and
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: equality aren't the same things, and that you know, equity
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: is made up of income, but also all the stuff
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: that we do around the house, like G. You know,
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: on the weekends, you mow the lawns, and like you
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: wash the dog and I do all the dishes, and
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: you know, the laundry and stuff, and all of that
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: needs to be taken into consideration. So we both feel
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: like we're, you know, playing an equal part in this relationship.
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: What do you think are here?
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: What you're saying to it's but I work harder than you,
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: So I'm sorry, not interested. My money is my money,
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: Your money is your money.
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: We split fifty to fifty back.
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: I totally get that, G. But we're in this situation
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: where I'm just getting a little bit frustrated because I've
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: got these goals and you and I sit down all
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: the time and we talk about what we want to
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: achieve together, and when we set our shared goal, I'm
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: not able to achieve my own personal goals. And it
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: upsets me a bit that you're able to achieve your
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: personal goals because you've got so much surplus income above
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: and beyond what I do. And you know, we're saving
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: for this holiday that we've got in September, and I'm
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: putting all my money into that because I know that
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: you really want to go, and so do I. But
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: that means that I can't go out for drinks and
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: stuff on the weekend with my friends, and you go
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: to golf like every Sunday morning, and that's like eighty bucks.
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: So I was just wondering if we could talk about it,
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: because I also work really hard, but I want to
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: make sure that our relationship always feels fair.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: You've changed my mind, darling really well said that was
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: so succinct, succinct, succinct, and I'm so sorry for the
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: way I behaved.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: Let's put it.
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: I love you. Do you know what? I absolutely would
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: have fired you if I'd hired you to be an
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: actor on this podcast. Yeah, really sorry, Ge, not made
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: up for you. But I think talking to a partner
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: who says stuff like that, we need to put on
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: a different hat and go okay. If this was a friend,
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: how would I tell them to advocate for themselves? As
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: often that is the advice that you should be taking yourself.
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: I can't sit here and go, gee, this is how
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: you should talk to your partner. I don't know your partner.
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: I think we also need to exercise a little bit
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: of caution around a topic like this. If I am
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: going to suggest that you talk to your partner about
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: something like this, I am talking to you from a
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: very privileged position where I'm not in an abusive relationship. Georgia,
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: I can talk to my partner very openly, very honestly.
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: I could go off my rocker and be safe.
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: If you do not.
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: Feel like that is a situation you were in, I
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: would really second guess having this conversation, not go all
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: victorious that I should have it and get yourself into
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: a bit of a sticky situation. I think it's really
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: important as well to go, oh, I'm really sorry that
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: you don't think that way, but I work just as
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: hard as you do, Georgia, even though I'm not remunerated financially,
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: and exactly the same way. I think really standing your
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: ground and having that conversation, like I'm really opinionated on
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: this topic because I care so much about it. You,
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: I care literally so much. It hurts sometimes about our
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: community and it breaks my heart to think that someone
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: would be in a relationship with a partner that doesn't
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: see the value that their partner has to provide. Like,
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: I can't imagine how upset I would be George if
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: you came to work Kwanjay Cup says, I don't work
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: hard in comparison to him, I'd be like, what a dick?
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean? Like, it's just not
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't want your partners to talk to you this way,
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: but unfortunately it is the reality of some people's situations
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: where they might not have talked about it before. Also,
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: think about your partner's money story. How have they been
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: brought up? Have they been brought up to assume that
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: the female does all of the work? Have they just
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: assumed this going forward? Have they just not had the
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: grace of having that conversation before. And that's why I
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: think it's so important to prime for that conversation, not
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: just spring it on them and hope that they're ready.
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: Because you got the grace of a warning, Let's send
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: that to our partners.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah amazing, well said Okay, next response, This is my
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: personal favorite. It actually came from the Facebook group. Can't
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: remember who posted it, but thank you so much. But
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: I thought women wanted to be equal to men this
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: is in the case of a hetero relationship, I should qualify.
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, that is very fair. Absolutely, And that's why
• 56:21
  Speaker 4: I really want to have the same opportunities that you
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: do to save and invest my money as well, because
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: you know, I want what is accessible to you, but
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: unfortunately I don't earn what you earn it this point,
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: and I'd really like to talk about what equity in
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: this relationship looks like. So maybe we can start a
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: list and talk about what you know you do and
• 56:42
  Speaker 4: what I do and how we can both contribute to
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: this relationship. And George, I say that because if someone
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: is willing to say I thought that women wanted to
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: be equal to men that relationship, George, I'm just just
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: stabbing the dark. They don't contribute a lot domestically, George,
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: I just know, I'm just getting a feeling. So I
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: think that having that conversation about equity and what that means,
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: and also remembering where they've come from, like we need
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: to give people a little bit more, you know, And
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: I keep using the word grace. We need to give
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: them grace because they might have been brought up differently
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: to you, They might have had a completely different upbringing,
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: and I think it's not fair to just assume that
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: this is second nature to everybody, because it's not. And
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: it's a privilege to be having this conversation now. But
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: it's one of those things where, hey, I just think
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: that we should be equal and I think that we
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: should be having this conversation. And I've said before on
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: the podcast, and do you know what I've said on
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: the podcast, actually, Georgia. Why Because my mum used to
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: say it to me and it was always just such
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: a safety net for me growing up that I just
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: want to extend it to my shees on the money
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: community because I know I lent on that as a teenager,
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: and I would want you to have the same opportunity.
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: And that is blame me, you know, growing up, Mum
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: would be like, if you don't want to be at
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: a party, or you want to be picked up early,
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: or you know, you don't want to go to Georgia's
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: house for a sleepover, just blame me. I'll back you up.
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: I'll say I'm the big bad wolf mom. Sorry, Mom's
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: not gonna let me do that. Like how many times
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: have we blamed our parents? If we are, you know,
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: privileged enough to have parents that we can rely on
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: in that way for not being able to do something.
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: And I just think that, you know, blame the podcast.
• 58:25
  Speaker 4: Blame Victoria. Oh my gosh, So I was listening to
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: this podcast, and this crazy podcast has said that we
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: should be talking about equity. So what do you think, Like,
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: blame me? Like I genuinely would be absolutely flattered if
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: you guys were using that as an excuse. And I somehow,
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: even if your platner hates me, was a pivotal moment
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: in your relationship to reach more equality and more equity. Like,
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: I just think that's so special. And you know, I
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: say that because my mom did that for me, and
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: my mom was that scapegoat to start conversations I didn't
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: want to have, or you know, I was very conservative
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: as a teenager, Georgia King. I can't imagine, just oh surprise,
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: but I just remember being so conservative that, you know,
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: I didn't particularly want to go to parties that had
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: alcohol at it because that was a bit scary to me.
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: So I remember being like, oh, mom wants to know
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: is there going to be alcohol there? Yeah? Good one.
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: Mom didn't want to know. Victoria wanted to know, but
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: she didn't want to look like a loser. Yeah, so
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: blame it on mum, blame it on Victoria, because, if anything,
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: I think this podcast has been thuser such a positive
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: catalyst of conversation and change that if you don't know
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: how to start this conversation or bring it up or
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: even say you want it, because that could be a
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: really hard conversation to have too, Like telling your partner
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: you want to change something dramatic about your relationship is hard. Like,
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: let's not pretend this is an easy conversation to have,
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: but it might be a really good catalyst to say, Hey,
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: you know, you don't have to get them to listen
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: to this podcast because then they'll know why blaming me,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: But hey, oh my gosh, such an interesting podcast. They
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: were talking about this, this and this. What are your thoughts?
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: And your partner might go ugh, oh my god, menox
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: so much harder or this or that, and you get
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: to have this conversation kind of as a third party
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: without having the conversation directly. Partner might be like, oh,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: that's a really interesting concept. We should do that, and
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: you go, great idea, Brian, Like it's one of those
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: things where I think that the conversation can start in
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: a million different ways, but gee, if you don't know
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: how to start it, start it by saying you listen
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: to a podcast.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the perfect place. Well, I think that's probably
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: the perfect place to end today's episode.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: B your thoughts? Are you happy with that? I'm happy
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: with everything except our really horrific role playing. But you
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: know what, like everything, practice is going to make perfect.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: And if you, guys thought that was the first and
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: the only time you would hear it on the Shed
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: on the Money podcast, you were wrong, because I think
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: we had far too much fun. We really did, We
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: really really did. So before we go, as always, just
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: before we head off, we'd like to acknowledge and pay
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: respect to Australia's Aboriginal and torrest Rate islander peoples. They're
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and the
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing and
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: for caring for the land on which we are able
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: to learn. We pay respects to elders past and present,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: and we share our friendship and our kindness see week guys.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: Oh and thank you to everyone who helped shape this episode.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: It was really, really helpful having all of your ideas
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: injected into the show from the Facebook groups.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: Yes, Little Angels.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: Let's do more contributions. I love it. Let's ask them
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: more questions. Free labor, free labor, Bye bye,