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Awakening the Masculine Spirit (with Amir Khalighi) · Evolutionary Men

• 0:00
  All right, and welcome back. So I am super pumped today to be joined by Amir Kalighi. He's a teacher, speaker, and guide devoted to awakening and aligning men to their soul's path.
• 0:14
  As the founder and lead facilitator of Embodied Masculine, he has spent over three decades walking alongside men, helping them reclaim their purpose, deepen their presence, and reconnect with the sacred, within themselves, in relationship, and absolutely with the natural world.
• 0:34
  Since establishing Embodied Masculine in 2018, Amir's work has touched the lives of men across the globe through retreats, workshops, initiation programs, circles, and one-on-one mentorship.
• 0:46
  His approach is rooted in lived experience and shaped by years of study across multiple traditions, including Tibetan Tantra, shamanism, somatic healing, breathwork, and embodiment methodologies.
• 1:00
  These influences converge into a grounded and integrated path that supports men in shedding old identities, remembering their true nature, and standing in deep integrity with life.
• 1:10
  And I am super pumped to have you here, man, today. I've had the pleasure of sitting in circle with you and knowing you for a number of years now, and was very excited to reconnect.
• 1:25
  It's been a little bit since you and I have chatted, and thanks so much for coming.
• 1:30
  Well, thanks for the invitation. I said yes, because I adore you, and I was excited to just spend an hour in conversation with you.
• 1:39
  Yeah. And so, I would love for you to paint a little picture here of kind of, you have an amazing background in history, that the more I got to know you, the more I kept was like,
• 1:52
  Whoa, you did that too, whoa, you did that too, and that too, and super cool.
• 1:55
  But kind of what led you to men's work?
• 1:58
  In short, not having a father.
• 2:03
  I think, you know, I think, you know, our deepest wounds can turn to be the greatest gifts that we offer the world.
• 2:11
  And for me, that was the case.
• 2:15
  You know, I had an absent father, raised by my mother, a single mother raised me, and saw the world through her eyes.
• 2:27
  And I think intuitively, at some point, I knew that I needed to sever that in order to find my way.
• 2:38
  But there are no healthy ways to initiate.
• 2:42
  So I self-initiated through drugs and alcohol, created a lot of pain and chaos in doing that.
• 2:49
  But it did create that separation that I needed.
• 2:54
  And subsequently, I found my way into recovery at the age of 23.
• 3:03
  I'm 54 now.
• 3:04
  I was in that program, the AA program, for 24 years.
• 3:08
  But it was in that program where I started to really look for men that had what I didn't have.
• 3:18
  And what I didn't have was a sense of self.
• 3:19
  What I didn't have was a grounded sense of self.
• 3:23
  I remember meeting my first sponsor in that meeting, in that group, in the AA world.
• 3:32
  And there was something incredible about him.
• 3:36
  We met at Chili's in Northridge.
• 3:39
  This is many, many years ago.
• 3:42
  And I remember his daughter used to work there.
• 3:45
  And I was riddled in my head.
• 3:49
  I was all over the fucking place.
• 3:51
  I was like static, like moving around in static.
• 3:54
  And there was this guy who was just settled.
• 3:57
  He was settled in his seat, in his body.
• 4:01
  And the way that his daughter talked to him, I didn't have any relationship like that.
• 4:06
  I didn't have that kind of connection.
• 4:09
  So I started to look for men that had something that I wanted.
• 4:14
  And I couldn't verbalize it at that time.
• 4:17
  But looking back, you know, I wanted to be around men that knew who they were and where they stood in the world and what their calling was, you know.
• 4:29
  So I did a lot of work in the recovery world.
• 4:35
  I also found my way into martial arts.
• 4:37
  I needed to move a lot of energy, a lot of angst, a lot of that red energy.
• 4:42
  We can talk about that.
• 4:45
  You know, Robert Bly talks about the three stages of masculinity, right?
• 4:49
  So.
• 4:51
  And I found my way into martial arts.
• 4:53
  I was in martial arts for 20 plus years and really exercised a lot of those energies and pains and demons on the mat.
• 5:04
  But it wasn't really until later on in life where I, you know, I subsequently left the AA program consciously just because I could.
• 5:18
  I sensed my spiritual life starting to shrink.
• 5:22
  And so I stepped out.
• 5:24
  I stepped out into the unknown.
• 5:25
  And really, we can go into that, but that really opened that going into the darkness really burst embodied masculine and what I do in the world today.
• 5:36
  Yeah, beautiful.
• 5:39
  And tell me a little bit about that moment, which, you know, I was privileged to kind of be part of, I think, to some extent.
• 5:49
  Yeah.
• 5:50
  When you shifted to this idea of not only being immersed in the work yourself, but of guiding men deeper into themselves and into their process.
• 6:01
  Like, was there a specific moment for you or what was that transition?
• 6:05
  Yeah, you were there.
• 6:06
  So I'll talk about that.
• 6:09
  You know, I have a firm belief that the clarity of purpose doesn't come through until we have really exercised some blockages within the body, within this temple body.
• 6:20
  If there's anything that has not been exercised that needs to be exercised that is preoccupying a sense of our attention or consciousness, even if it's unconscious, it'll muddy the water around the clarity.
• 6:38
  And for me, I've done plenty of work in the AA program.
• 6:42
  I've done plenty of work in therapy.
• 6:44
  But what I hadn't experienced was somatic healing.
• 6:48
  I hadn't experienced somatic healing.
• 6:50
  So I was invited by my friend, our mutual friend, John, to come to one of his retreats in Panaman Valley.
• 6:57
  And I believe that was 2018.
• 6:59
  That's a while ago.
• 7:01
  And I was invited to teach.
• 7:05
  And I was also invited to participate.
• 7:07
  And of course, you know, I've known John since we were in our early 20s.
• 7:12
  And I think I said yes, because I really I was curious about what the fuck is he doing?
• 7:17
  What is all that?
• 7:18
  What is he doing?
• 7:18
  I kind of when I came to that retreat, I want to be like, I'm going to pull your covers.
• 7:22
  There's always a little suspicion about this world that he was involved in.
• 7:29
  And, you know, I got a lot more than I get brought.
• 7:32
  I received a lot more than I expected.
• 7:35
  And it was in two very deep practices that really I had a profound shift in my consciousness.
• 7:43
  One of them was a kind of a somatic release practice where the men hold you back and you and you.
• 7:50
  So I had I had these dormant, dormant charges around my around my mother and her second husband and some physical abuse that went on and where I bore witness where I was frozen and I couldn't do anything at a very young age.
• 8:11
  I was like around 12.
• 8:13
  And I had an opportunity to in that practice to go back into that moment and re-experience the same frozenness.
• 8:22
  Right.
• 8:23
  Because I'm still being held back.
• 8:24
  But this time the energy was starting to get expressed that didn't get expressed.
• 8:28
  The rage, the the all of that force that needed to go that wanted to like dismantle him like to to to to to deal with the situation.
• 8:40
  Like all of that, that's so mad.
• 8:43
  That's lives in the cells of my body that wasn't exercised.
• 8:48
  And I remember when I when I finally collapsed.
• 8:53
  I was looking up and I saw like all these men that were part of that practice.
• 9:01
  And it was almost like as if a prayer was answered.
• 9:07
  Like if I was the 12 year old boy praying for help.
• 9:11
  It took that long to to get to that moment where I the the prayer had come full circle and I and I found and I found the release.
• 9:22
  I found the angels that were looking up down at me being like we got you through this.
• 9:27
  So sorry that you went through that.
• 9:29
  And so that's so that that experience.
• 9:32
  Really.
• 9:35
  Like moved a huge block for me.
• 9:39
  Right.
• 9:41
  And the second experience was the God form practice that we ran where I got in touch with an aspect of myself that I knew was me.
• 9:52
  And yet I was in practice.
• 9:54
  But then I had this experience of another version of me.
• 9:56
  I was having two experiences of me simultaneously.
• 9:59
  And I knew the distance between those two was my path.
• 10:03
  Yeah.
• 10:05
  And when I left when at the end of that at the end of that retreat, I said, fuck, dude, I think I'm like the curtains have come up like opened and I see what I'm here to do.
• 10:19
  And, you know, and then I took that pro I took the MLT program a couple of times with him and then and then I I birthed what I was called to birth, you know, and I and I moved into devotion.
• 10:34
  And because, you know, and we can pivot to that if you want, because, you know, we talked earlier about talking about that, but that was really the opening of of the awakening that propelled me to free fall into the darkness.
• 10:52
  So it was so beautiful to witness the the ferocity and tenacity with which I saw you pivot to this new calling was was really exceptional.
• 11:02
  Right.
• 11:03
  Sometimes, you know, I'm in this world and it's like a toe in the water and you were just like, nope, going all in.
• 11:10
  It was really incredible.
• 11:11
  Yeah.
• 11:14
  So or go ahead.
• 11:15
  No, I was just going to say I came back.
• 11:17
  I used to be an app professional actor as well.
• 11:19
  Professional actor for 10 years.
• 11:20
  Called my agent.
• 11:22
  I'm set up.
• 11:22
  I'm shut everything down.
• 11:24
  I'm pivoting.
• 11:25
  Of course, I had to.
• 11:26
  You know, I had I had I have a I had a big life and I still do even bigger now.
• 11:31
  So I had to continue to make money the way I used to for a while before then, you know, leaving that and going all in about a year and a half after.
• 11:42
  Yeah.
• 11:43
  A mature transition that I failed to replicate my during my pivot and had to backtrack a bit.
• 11:51
  So, yeah, you're right.
• 11:54
  Your organization is embodied masculine.
• 11:56
  And, you know, I have a huge range of listeners.
• 11:59
  How would you define that?
• 12:01
  Like, how do you define embodied masculine?
• 12:03
  You know, I really pride our community on being incredibly unique for who we are.
• 12:09
  So I don't try to be someone else.
• 12:11
  I don't replicate like other ways of other men's groups.
• 12:15
  I really get I really try to honor the messaging and the flavor of who I am in the world.
• 12:22
  And I allowed that to be the resonance that called those that wanted to come and work in that space to join us.
• 12:33
  And in essence, much of the practices that I bring are are somatic and shamanic in nature.
• 12:44
  And, you know, shamanism was not even in my periphery until about eight years ago.
• 12:54
  And I was, you know, practicing shamanism really in the closet for like three years by my like not talking to anybody.
• 13:00
  I was like, people are going to like judge me and like, you know, what are they going to think?
• 13:05
  So for a long time and then until, you know, I found a community where I did some training like for a year with someone.
• 13:12
  And it just felt like, OK, like this is who I am.
• 13:15
  This is who I am.
• 13:17
  So let it let it let it reverberate.
• 13:20
  Let let me shine my flavor.
• 13:23
  Let my words be my words.
• 13:26
  You know, I started, you know, and, you know, I started to really tune into the feminine essence of divinity as this was birthing.
• 13:35
  And we can go into that if you'd like.
• 13:37
  So there's a lot of of, you know, devotion to that to that element into our in our community.
• 13:45
  You know, I set certain clear intentions of what we're about.
• 13:50
  We're about connection.
• 13:51
  We're about empowerment and we're about purpose.
• 13:56
  And I and that's a lived experience.
• 13:58
  It has to start with me.
• 13:59
  I have to have a lived experience of connection to myself, to my community, to the earth.
• 14:05
  I have to feel empowered in what I do.
• 14:09
  I don't which means I don't do it for you.
• 14:11
  I don't do it for my I don't even do it for my clients or for my students.
• 14:18
  I do it.
• 14:19
  I do it.
• 14:20
  I do it for my relationship and to answer my calling because I want to go to my deathbed feeling complete.
• 14:27
  That's why I you know, that's empowerment.
• 14:30
  Right.
• 14:32
  And purpose is answering that to know what that is and to step into that and let the chips fall where they may.
• 14:40
  With all the concerns and worries about money and all the intricacies of how is it all going to work out.
• 14:46
  It fucking works out.
• 14:50
  The universe begins to dance with you as you begin to align your actions with your dharma, with what you're called to to step into in this life.
• 15:02
  And that has been my lived experience.
• 15:04
  So that becomes the culture of the community and those that resonate with that message find their way, you know.
• 15:11
  And now we have this fucking amazing community, like robust, beautiful men flight and visit each other across states and countries.
• 15:22
  And like, you know, they are there for each other and support and community and accountability and heart and heartbreak.
• 15:31
  You know, heartbreak.
• 15:33
  Like, it's safe to break apart in our community.
• 15:38
  You know.
• 15:39
  Now, when you first find your way in, there may be layers to get through.
• 15:43
  But then, you know, we have like a weekly drop in that we have practices that kind of tend to that.
• 15:49
  Yeah.
• 15:50
  What would you say based on your experiences?
• 15:56
  You know, what separates this embodied presence you cultivate in yourself, you cultivate the men you work with from this thing a lot of guys orient towards, which is intellectual understanding?
• 16:09
  There's nothing wrong with intellectual understanding.
• 16:12
  I mean, it's a tool that we've been given.
• 16:15
  But when that tool becomes the prism of how we see life and how we take actions, we are misaligned to something more meaningful that can only come through the heart space.
• 16:31
  This is my experience.
• 16:32
  So we have all these ideas of what we think we need to be well.
• 16:39
  What we think we need in order to survive in this world.
• 16:44
  What we think we need in order to be happy.
• 16:47
  That's the problem.
• 16:49
  What we think.
• 16:52
  I'm not saying thinking is a problem because it's a tool that we get to use.
• 16:57
  Without it, we can't decipher.
• 16:59
  We can't discern.
• 17:00
  Right.
• 17:01
  It's a we can't see the threats.
• 17:04
  Like, you know, we are in a 3D world where we are.
• 17:08
  You know, we need to navigate with this system.
• 17:10
  But this this cannot be the prism of how we in my world.
• 17:15
  My life has expanded because I've been developing the capacity to listen to another ear that lives in my heart.
• 17:21
  I've deepened the capacity to pick up the note that moves through my heart that is intrinsically connected to the natural world as well.
• 17:31
  Right.
• 17:31
  And I don't serve other gods.
• 17:34
  I don't serve money.
• 17:36
  I had to like and I did for a long time.
• 17:38
  I did for a long time, you know.
• 17:41
  And then when you fall into that heart space, you fall into like a devotional path.
• 17:45
  And in a devotional path, you answer where you're called to go.
• 17:48
  And sometimes you may be called to go in a way where there's a lot of bling bling.
• 17:56
  And then sometimes some people are called to go and answer in very humble ways.
• 18:03
  I've known very powerful people that have sat in the corner of a coffee bean and tea leaf because they knew that that was their post.
• 18:13
  And they would just interact with people and give free service by presence with them.
• 18:19
  You know, like I had an incredible experience with a woman that that was her post.
• 18:25
  So it's about knowing what your post is in life.
• 18:29
  And answering that.
• 18:31
  Trusting that things will work out.
• 18:34
  Now, the problem is we have men that are like mesmerized by the societal noise and they don't have the practice to look inward often and to be with and to begin to alchemize some of those protective layers that they've naturally put up in order to survive out there.
• 18:58
  Yeah, I love that.
• 18:59
  It just made me think of the imagery of Odysseus and the sirens and how I hadn't really connected the dots.
• 19:09
  They're a lot more sophisticated in this moment in terms of what's trying to pull us in our distractions and get us lost in that capacity to close the eyes and go inside to stay the course.
• 19:21
  Right.
• 19:22
  That only comes through that heart space.
• 19:24
  I love how you said that I have this extra ear in my heart that allows me to hear a whole different vibration than the kind of standard and norm.
• 19:33
  It's beautiful.
• 19:35
  And so you've worked with a lot of guys at this point in your different offerings and programs.
• 19:42
  I'm curious, Samir, like where are you seeing a lot of men stuck right now?
• 19:48
  Like they're coming to you, you know, are they coming to you in pain or they come into you in hunger?
• 19:53
  Like what do you see holding men back?
• 19:57
  And I think, I think men are really lonely.
• 20:01
  I think, I think that disconnection from life is a nutrient that's really missing in men's lives.
• 20:13
  And I think many men, many, maybe not even just men, humans, you know, may not even trust life.
• 20:24
  Right.
• 20:24
  And the cycles of life, right?
• 20:27
  There are cycles in life.
• 20:30
  Our society doesn't want to look at death.
• 20:34
  Right.
• 20:36
  And we have to, we have to align ourselves with the cycles of life and some, whether that's death aversions of ourselves that, that we need to come to terms with and begin to take ownership of pieces that we are being called to look at, for example.
• 20:55
  Because when you don't, that that's when the systems begin to collapse.
• 20:58
  That's when marriages begin to collapse.
• 21:00
  That's when relationships begin to collapse.
• 21:03
  When we are not cognizant of what is being called.
• 21:09
  There is a higher genius that we have access to that is consistently trying to get our attention towards evolution.
• 21:18
  The whole system is built on evolution, evolving up, not devolving, evolving.
• 21:26
  And as part of that evolution, there is a cycle of the, of the aurobrose, right?
• 21:30
  It's the snake that eats its own tail.
• 21:32
  It is a cycle of birth, death, and rebirth constantly happening.
• 21:37
  And to coming into terms with like, what is dead?
• 21:41
  What do I need to sit with?
• 21:43
  What do I need to mourn?
• 21:44
  What do I need to let go in order to allow the newness to begin?
• 21:48
  Like every, you know, men think they have to do it all.
• 21:51
  Like it's all on me.
• 21:54
  It's actually not even about you.
• 21:58
  You're here for this beautiful experience, but you, but you are a conduit of this whole evolution, whether it's, you know, evolving personally or your, or within your family system or within your community.
• 22:13
  You are a part of something greater.
• 22:15
  And, and, and society has told men, you leave the house, you make it on your own.
• 22:20
  It's all up to you.
• 22:23
  You have to do it, grind it out.
• 22:25
  Right.
• 22:27
  And they don't have, they don't, they're not awake to the network that's available to them, whether that's in a men's group or whether it is in their relationship to their own hearts or to the natural world.
• 22:38
  And once you begin to allow that to run through you.
• 22:41
  Now don't get it twisted.
• 22:44
  There are, there are layers that, and, and the work, when they say the work, the work is coming to terms with everything that is getting in the way of that.
• 22:53
  That's the work.
• 22:55
  Right.
• 22:56
  Right.
• 22:56
  Right.
• 22:56
  So if something is stopping you from speaking your truth.
• 22:59
  Right.
• 23:00
  Then that becomes your work for that moment.
• 23:04
  Right.
• 23:05
  Whether it's expression.
• 23:06
  Right.
• 23:07
  And once you fall into that, you know, once life starts to move and you find your place in life.
• 23:13
  Well, then you're living a fulfilling life.
• 23:16
  Right.
• 23:17
  Then you just live.
• 23:19
  You live.
• 23:20
  Right.
• 23:22
  So many men are pulled away from this very natural experience that happens.
• 23:29
  You know, some, there is some other energy at play here that pulls men's attention for its own gain.
• 23:37
  Let's not get it twisted.
• 23:39
  There is a spiritual battle at play for the souls and attention of men and women.
• 23:44
  And what would you say, right?
• 23:47
  You laid out this beautiful history of recovery work and now the work you lead and you've experienced, you know, how has sitting in community in a men's group, men's circles, men's initiations with other men, how has that, you know, impacted you in your life?
• 24:06
  Well, to sit in circle, there's no hierarchy.
• 24:10
  Really.
• 24:10
  In a real circle, everyone's equal.
• 24:13
  Now, I know my place in that circle.
• 24:16
  If I'm facilitating, then I'm holding the container.
• 24:19
  But I'm not better than anybody and I'm not below anybody.
• 24:23
  And for me, this path is about returning to an old way where the circle used to exist way before the vertical masculine or patriarchal line came through some six plus thousand years ago.
• 24:43
  So if I'm pulling back, that's what I see happening to masculinity.
• 24:48
  It's a return to this balanced way of being with self, the natural world and community.
• 24:56
  This other way is unconscious and it plows its way to take what it wants at any cost.
• 25:03
  And we can see that at play all around the world.
• 25:06
  You can see it in certain celebrities and the way they talk.
• 25:09
  You can see it in society.
• 25:11
  You can see it in leadership.
• 25:14
  I believe.
• 25:15
  I believe.
• 25:15
  The evolution of masculinity is a return to this to the circle.
• 25:22
  Right.
• 25:23
  It doesn't mean, you know, it doesn't mean men aren't powerful.
• 25:26
  As a matter of fact, we're the ones that go out and fucking deal with with the threats.
• 25:31
  Right.
• 25:34
  But when we sit in circle, we are equal.
• 25:37
  Right.
• 25:38
  Right.
• 25:38
  And there is also a reclamation of the feminine rising back to take her rightful place because she's been subjugated in in this patriarchal system for thousands of years.
• 25:54
  Right.
• 25:55
  It's not about women trying to become like men to be equal.
• 25:59
  It's about honoring women's innate natural gifts.
• 26:05
  Right.
• 26:07
  Like when I look at a pregnant woman, I see power.
• 26:13
  I see the chosen vessel for life to express and recreate itself.
• 26:19
  That should be held in awe and reverence, not controlled, put a burka on it.
• 26:23
  Right.
• 26:25
  Or try to pass laws to somehow control her behavior.
• 26:29
  So I also see as part of men's work, true men in my in my world.
• 26:37
  If you are not addressing that, you're the way you relate to the feminine within your within your life, within within even larger scopes, you're missing the point.
• 26:52
  Right.
• 26:54
  So I think it's a return.
• 26:56
  It's a return to this.
• 26:58
  And sometimes I need to receive in a circle.
• 27:02
  Right.
• 27:04
  I don't I don't you know, sometimes I need to break down.
• 27:07
  Sometimes I need to be held, you know, and I'm going through something like that.
• 27:11
  I'm going to keep it somewhat general.
• 27:13
  But, you know, my story.
• 27:14
  I mean, right now I'm receiving.
• 27:15
  You know, I'm receiving, you know, I mean, you know, I have a challenge in my in one of my with one of my children.
• 27:23
  And it's like I I'm wounded and I need to be held.
• 27:27
  And my community is fucking showing up like nobody's business.
• 27:33
  Right.
• 27:34
  Because people want to reciprocate reciprocity.
• 27:37
  Reciprocity.
• 27:40
  It's so key and it's so beautiful to hear that because part part of why I wanted to address this and to talk with you is, you know, one of the transmissions I get through your work and what you put out is is this devotional energy to the feminine and its importance,
• 27:55
  which isn't necessarily present in a certain resurgence, let's say, of men's work right now.
• 28:03
  Andrew Tate, the red pill, the kind of subjugation, hierarchy, power over.
• 28:08
  And you're a very powerful man.
• 28:13
  I mean, physically in your body, I've been with you.
• 28:15
  You're very fucking powerful, powerful in the leadership you bring.
• 28:18
  And when you model that, it has a an impact.
• 28:23
  Right.
• 28:24
  And then transmission and the fact I love what you said about, you know, you're in a place of receiving because this is one of the things where I think those guys kind of lose the plot is your capacity.
• 28:36
  You receive is part of what makes you powerful because then you don't have to stay hard and armored all the time, which wastes a shit ton of energy.
• 28:48
  And you're allowed to restore to get nourishment to be held.
• 28:55
  So your system can come back to what it needs to, to be able to go back out and serve at a deep level.
• 29:00
  And that's something, you know, I certainly see chronically malnourished in men.
• 29:07
  They don't, you know, part of the awfulness of that patriarchy is not only is it dominating the feminine out in the world, but it teaches men to dominate that part inside of themselves.
• 29:20
  And they push it down, keep grinding over it.
• 29:23
  Body start to fall apart, autoimmune issues, oppression, suicide.
• 29:28
  Those guys, you know, those guys, I say, I mean, there is a resurgence in the culture.
• 29:35
  They don't have that capacity.
• 29:38
  I do not see them modeling that capacity.
• 29:40
  And it's something you've brought online so beautifully as a powerful man who is connected to his own feminine, the feminine in the world, from my experience.
• 29:50
  And also to see it live through, you know, your artistry, right?
• 29:55
  You're a man of beautiful words and imagery and, you know, comes through in some of your shamanic practices I've done with you that I'm just like, yes, more, more.
• 30:07
  Keep filling us up, man.
• 30:09
  Keep filling me up.
• 30:09
  Yeah, I think you're right.
• 30:12
  I'm going to go back to a question you asked, like, how do they come in?
• 30:15
  How do they find us?
• 30:16
  They come depleted from that, from having the capacity to have the depth of that resonance, the capacity to explore the, you know, I bring as many feminine practices as I do masculine practices.
• 30:33
  Because if anything, that's the piece that men need to feel safe enough and begin to, like, alchemize within themselves, within the practices that we bring in all the ways that they were ashamed to shut that down.
• 30:50
  Right?
• 30:51
  Any expression, any, any, right?
• 30:54
  So, and the number one complaint that women have about their men is, I can't feel him.
• 31:03
  Can't feel him because he can't feel him.
• 31:05
  He can't feel him.
• 31:08
  He doesn't know what he's feeling.
• 31:09
  He doesn't even, he could be even numb.
• 31:12
  So, it is a, it is a reclamation of a part of your soul that you're really, that you're going after in the work.
• 31:23
  It's part of the work.
• 31:25
  And the deeper you go in, the more, the deeper the well, the more you explore the parameters of your own feminine expression.
• 31:34
  Right?
• 31:35
  And masculine presence.
• 31:37
  The more well-rounded you're going to be as a human being.
• 31:40
  If your heart breaks, when your heart needs to break, you're deepening your well of your heart.
• 31:48
  But if you shut the door on your heart from feeling and you collapse and you contract it at that state, first of all, you're not in life.
• 31:58
  You become an island onto yourself.
• 32:01
  You think you're safe, but you will end up miserable.
• 32:05
  You will end up feeling alone.
• 32:07
  We're not, we're, we're not made to be individualized.
• 32:11
  We are interconnected beings.
• 32:13
  Right?
• 32:14
  When something tragic happens, it's, it's, it's like, it's, it's natural for our hearts to break.
• 32:21
  You know, 800 years ago, Rumi said, let your heart break, break, break, and break, and break until it breaks open.
• 32:29
  You want to talk about strength?
• 32:31
  You tell me what's harder to experience.
• 32:33
  Is it the predator eating the neck of the deer or is it the deer surrendering its body to the earth?
• 32:39
  What experience takes more strength?
• 32:43
  Put your consciousness in that moment.
• 32:45
  Surrender your body to the earth or take.
• 32:48
  Such potent imagery.
• 32:49
  Totally.
• 32:50
  Just got chills.
• 32:52
  A visceral way to, to illuminate that.
• 32:58
  I think.
• 32:58
  You know, as, as I even let part of myself touch that right there, there comes that strong devotional energy to, wow.
• 33:07
  Okay.
• 33:07
  The, whatever energetic in the world goes that way.
• 33:12
  Want to protect that and guide that and ease that and love that.
• 33:17
  Super potent.
• 33:17
  How do you balance?
• 33:19
  Because this is a question I get a lot.
• 33:21
  Right.
• 33:22
  How do you balance strength and vulnerability in leadership?
• 33:26
  Right.
• 33:27
  It's a buzzword these days.
• 33:29
  Vulnerability.
• 33:29
  Vulnerability.
• 33:31
  And, you know, on the one side, a lot of guys, I know that's weak.
• 33:34
  That's weak.
• 33:34
  That's weak.
• 33:35
  Right.
• 33:35
  Kind of like we're talking about.
• 33:36
  But we also don't want to flip to the other side of just total collapse.
• 33:42
  Collapse.
• 33:42
  Right.
• 33:43
  Well, here's the, yeah, that's a great question because when I speak of vulnerability, I don't talk about collapse.
• 33:49
  When I talk about vulnerability, I'm talking about the capacity to hold my own emotional body as it collapses within me, but I'm holding it.
• 33:59
  I still have presence.
• 34:01
  I still, I am the one taking care of me.
• 34:04
  I am the one that's now, listen, the problem becomes when we outsource that all the time to someone else.
• 34:12
  Right.
• 34:14
  Now you got a problem.
• 34:16
  You take care of me because I can't take care of my own emotional body.
• 34:21
  We see that in men's work.
• 34:22
  Right.
• 34:22
  I used to have that years ago.
• 34:25
  Right.
• 34:26
  And I had to learn.
• 34:28
  And I have a feminine emotional body, which means if I feel something, I feel it in every cell of my body.
• 34:35
  It's a gift and it's not a curse, but it's, it's, it requires me to on, on the emotional front, deepen my capacity to be able to hold my own feminine emotional body.
• 34:47
  The only reason we're saying it's fat, it's just your emotional body.
• 34:50
  Right.
• 34:51
  But to be able to hold that and be present with what is and be honest with what is moving through you.
• 34:59
  That is power.
• 35:01
  That is power.
• 35:02
  Right.
• 35:02
  You're putting your heart in your hand and you're letting it be what it is.
• 35:07
  And if it's breaking, it's breaking.
• 35:11
  If it's in celebration, it's in celebration.
• 35:14
  Right.
• 35:14
  It's a surrender and a free fall into the cycles of life.
• 35:18
  It is a trusting of life, even in its darkest hour, when it's cold and damp and you're alone and you're like, nothing's going to work out.
• 35:27
  And this is the end.
• 35:28
  And to allow, and to be with, to be able to be with that and allow the next flicker of light to come through.
• 35:34
  Because it always does.
• 35:36
  The grass always grows through the cement, you know.
• 35:38
  And sometimes it's, sometimes it's beyond our understanding.
• 35:42
  Sometimes it's beyond our understanding.
• 35:45
  And sometimes we can get heady about it and not trust life.
• 35:49
  Why do children die in airplanes?
• 35:53
  You know, like, why do, why do children like die in, in, in, in war zones?
• 35:58
  Like, there are questions.
• 35:59
  If we tangled ourselves, we could, we could get pulled out and get disconnected.
• 36:05
  But then my challenge to that is what is your life lived experience in surrendering into, to letting something hold you?
• 36:13
  At the end of the day, my friend, it is about getting in touch with your understanding of God that lives within your heart.
• 36:22
  That moves within your heart, that speaks within your heart.
• 36:25
  To allow that to, to help you navigate life.
• 36:28
  To help, to help you have the strength to meet hard moments.
• 36:33
  Without shutting down.
• 36:37
  Without closing your heart.
• 36:39
  That's power.
• 36:41
  Yeah, that's real warriorship.
• 36:44
  And I love, yeah, I think that the word, you know, that just came to me.
• 36:49
  You're definitely embodying a sacred, right?
• 36:52
  There's a, there's a sacredness to what you bring forth in the world and what you evoke.
• 36:59
  Right.
• 37:00
  In the men you work with, you know, people in your life that I, I know just based on the work I do with men is, is another deep yearning.
• 37:11
  Right.
• 37:11
  Right.
• 37:11
  That there's been a big cutoff in a lot of ways.
• 37:15
  A lot of the places men traditionally went for that aren't around anymore.
• 37:20
  And there's a lot of men just kind of wandering through life disconnected.
• 37:26
  And if there's one thing I think we all know about the masculine is disconnected.
• 37:32
  Masculine is the most dangerous masculine.
• 37:34
  And not, and not, and not, and not.
• 37:36
  Yeah.
• 37:37
  And not, and not, and not.
• 37:39
  Exactly.
• 37:40
  And that when we reconnect to that sacred, whether it's in another man's eyes, whether it's in devotion to the feminine, to the earth, to the planet, to God or spirit,
• 37:49
  something better tends to come forth through, through the eyes of the man standing in it.
• 37:55
  You know, I, I, I, I, I pray that men's groups around the world really work with, with, with initiation in, in, in a right way.
• 38:07
  And, in my experience, a successful initiation of a man is predicated on his awakening to the fact that life is not about him.
• 38:19
  It's not just about you, man.
• 38:21
  It's just, right?
• 38:25
  In indigenous cultures, the boy gets taken from the mother's bed.
• 38:29
  The mother knows this is going to happen.
• 38:31
  She's wailing.
• 38:32
  He's taken through, he's taken by the men, put through an ordeal.
• 38:37
  And when he comes out the other end, he meets a new version of himself.
• 38:42
  And he is welcomed into, he's welcomed into a community that, that takes action, that is in, in the highest service and the highest good of the community.
• 38:56
  Therefore, he finds his place in that community.
• 38:59
  Right?
• 39:01
  If it was, if it was just, if he didn't get initiated, he'd think it was all about him.
• 39:05
  What the fuck is my thing?
• 39:06
  Why is this?
• 39:07
  Like, oh, God damn it.
• 39:08
  Right?
• 39:08
  So, I think, at the end, ultimately, men deeply desire to know their place and for them to take that place.
• 39:19
  And for you to be able to do that, that is purpose.
• 39:23
  And when you live and you take action from that, you're walking in the dark.
• 39:27
  The path has never been walked.
• 39:29
  Right?
• 39:31
  You're trusting and free falling into a relationship with the divine when you live in alignment with your purpose.
• 39:37
  It doesn't mean everything's fucking rosy.
• 39:39
  Doesn't mean there's not going to be any pain.
• 39:42
  It doesn't mean, I mean, that there is a gamut that, you know, your soul signed up for.
• 39:46
  Like, oh, I'll take that fucking one.
• 39:47
  I'll do that one.
• 39:48
  I'll come to the earth and have that experience.
• 39:51
  So, it's about alignment.
• 39:53
  And it's about answering the call.
• 39:55
  But first and foremost, you know, I think men that are unhappy, they feel unfulfilled.
• 40:03
  They need to get curious and they need to find their way to a men's group.
• 40:07
  Where other men will be like, dude, this is what I see.
• 40:13
  Yeah.
• 40:13
  Couldn't have said it better myself, man.
• 40:16
  So glad to be on this journey with you and witness you continuing to deepen and expand and love with the gifts you're bringing to the world.
• 40:26
  And so, for guys listening, what's the best way for them to keep up with you?
• 40:31
  Masculine.com would be a really good starting point.
• 40:34
  You can check, you know, just kind of get a feel for who we are and what we do in the world and our flavor of men's work.
• 40:42
  And maybe, you know, I'm not on Instagram a lot, but I have kind of a, it's not love-hate because I don't love it.
• 40:50
  But I do, you know, I do post things once in a while and it's a good, you can stay connected that way as well.
• 40:58
  But I would say embodiedmasculine.com would be a good start.
• 41:01
  Yeah, and you can follow me on Instagram.
• 41:02
  That's fine too.
• 41:03
  It's the new chop wood, carry water.
• 41:07
  Just got to give myself over to the practice.
• 41:11
  I'm with you, man.
• 41:11
  Uh-huh.
• 41:12
  It's been such a pleasure, brother.