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Cultural Catalysts: The Leaders of the Future · The Expert Method

• speaker-0: We all have a mind, okay? And we all have a brain. And the way that the brain actually functions is to keep yourself safe. Reality is actually truth. You forgot that the process of getting there is just as important as the destination itself. Where does somebody start if they wanted to be a part of this shift and start operating in alignment with where we're going? It is neurobiologically impossible to do it alone. Distrust in institutions, political conflict, and economic pressure are at all time highs, and people are starting to recognize that the old standard just doesn't make any sense. These are not random problems. These are the predictable symptoms of a system that is breaking down and a world order that is starting to change. And when an old system collapses, a new one will take its place. So the question is what will that new system look like? Will it be built on extraction, fear, and control? Or will it be built on service, responsibility, and a better way of us relating to each other? That answer and that outcome is not only decided and dictated by governments and institutions, it is also shaped by the founders, leaders, and businesses building inside this transition. So with that, I'm excited to be joined by Jacqueline Orrant. Jacqueline is the co-founder and CEO of Cultural Catalysts, where she is building a peer network for leaders who see business as a way to create a new cultural standard. In our conversation, we discuss what it means for a business to redefine normal, why Jaclyn believes that the changing world order creates a new responsibility for leaders, how identity and peer relationships shape change, and why the people around you may determine whether or not your vision survives contact with real life. If you get value from this conversation, be sure to subscribe and share it with a friend. And now here is my conversation with Jaclyn Orint. Jacqueline, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. So one line from your work, Jacqueline, that immediately stood out to me is the idea that some founders build businesses and cultural catalysts redefine normal. So what does it mean for a business to redefine normal? So what we're referring to with the word cultural catalyst is something called a social identity group. So just like there's the New York Giants and the New York Jets and the New York Everything move, which my dad literally filters the people he talks to on whether or not he gives them a sh- Or whether or not he is able to bond with him. That's called a social identity group. And so cultural catalysts is that. It's like finding people who are on your team who share a vision for a new culture. And ⁓ one of the reasons why cultural catalysts is so important for this moment in history right now is because as we were talking about right before we press record, is we are at the precipice between what's been. And what will be. And this isn't just woo. This is science and macroeconomics, whether you're listening to a Pulzer Prize historian, like I did on Diary of a CEO last week or Ray Dalio, they're all saying the same thing, actually, that the infrastructure, both the government infrastructure, the way of doing things in business, the way that we relate to each other, you know, how much money is in circulation, a lot of these things they're showing up in terms of conflict. Right now, right? We have the left and the right fighting with each other and just generally just people fighting with each other, a huge income in inequality gap between the rich and the poor at the moment. And then natural disasters, right? So all these things have happened before. And one of the things that Ray Dalio talks about, who is the macroeconomist who did this research specifically, is that world orders basically get put into new positions after a world war. So the current world as it currently is, has had the United States as a world power and us having the the currency being our we literally have the reserve currency. That was put in place after World War II. Okay. And one of the things that we don't realize because we're so in our lives is that the rise and fall of nations happens between like 60 to 80 years. Every 60 to 80 years right now. So We're actually at a time in history where it's happening right now and it looks like a whole bunch of disruption. It looks like fighting. And so for people who are cultural catalysts and are redefining what's normal, part of that is actually it starts with a new way of being, which results in a way, new way of doing things, new outcomes, new results, new ways of doing business, new ways to provide services, new ways to relate to people. New ⁓ business infrastructure, the way that business is run and what's important. There is literally new ways of doing things coming online right now that are little like little glimmers of hope right now to show us where we're going. ⁓ and not everyone's accepting of it and they might judge it and they might push it down. However, these are little indicators of of what's to come right now. What are some of those glimmers of hope, these new ways of doing business that you're seeing ⁓ working? You know, one of my mentors is Allie Katz. One of the things that Allie teaches is a concept called financial liberation. Okay. Not only can I have enough and actually have the structures to make sure that I have enough, but I also can make sure that I can have what I need at different levels of what do I need to thrive? What do I need to be of service? What is my preference? And what is no limits? Okay. And when you go up these different echelons, first of all, I'd like to point out survival is actually none of them. Okay. Thrive is actually the base level because when you're thriving, you're actually able to help others. And when you're of service, all these different levels actually include other people in them. You know, in the culture that we're currently in, it's all a bit about me or about what I get or about what I take or how much money I can take or or make or in what cars I drive and how big of the house that I live in. And that is not financial liberation. And for me, when I see on social media how focused we are on money, it shows me how. Deeply lost we are about what really matters, which is true, genuine service. Yeah. I love it. Yeah, and that's kind of the foundation of the new way of doing business moving forward, and absolutely something that lights me up. One little tangent, if you want to ⁓ really dive into the origins of where that ideology of me really came from and materialism and the the id, the ego. And how that was really propagated. If you watch this great documentary on YouTube called The Century of Self, you can really learn the origins of that. It's fascinating. But yeah, flipping back to the to the side of hope. So you see the main kind of foundation of the glimmer of hope is this new way of doing business is going to be a shift of the focus of me and what can I get to more of a focus and an intentional. Action on focusing on service and helping those around you and serving ⁓ those around you. Yeah. And that's always been the higher, you know, purpose behind business. And that's ultimately what I'm speaking to is like, what is the higher purpose of your business? And one of the things that we ⁓ as humans all have in common, no matter what socioeconomic class you're in, no matter how much money you make, or no matter what position you are in society, is that we all have a mind. Okay. And we all have a brain. And the way that the brain actually functions. is to keep yourself safe. And one of the people that I've studied at depth, and one of my main mentors, was actually a psychiatrist and a physician. And one of his statements is that the ego is inherently narcissistic. Okay. Which goes to show whenever you call someone narcissistic, so are you to some extent, right? And that's because the way that the brain has been structured is to keep yourself safe. And so right now one of the things that's getting to change as we're saying the way that we do business and the way that we relate to each other. needs to shift from self serving to whole serving. It's not just this like idyllic way of doing things. It's literally a different operating system. Yeah. Absolutely. Can you give us a tangible example of what that shift looks like in a business? Like what does like where does that actually show up and how a business operates and maybe how a business starts or like the focus of the of the leadership team? Like what does that actually look like tangibly? One of the things that I've had the blessing of doing is, you know, first learning how to transform myself and then learning how to transform others, and then doing so with people in leadership positions. And what I got to see was that when you developed the consciousness of a key leader in an organization, it creates exponential change. And I actually applied to the most innovative university in the world to study how consciousness created systemic change. And I got to meet two really important researchers, one of which you're probably very familiar with, whom is Dr. Benjamin Hardy. Actually, so who wrote Who Not How? 10X is easier than 2X, The Gate in the Gap, and most recently the Science of Scaling. And I actually used Who Not How on Hardy himself. And I went up to Hardy and I was like, I think you're my super who. And he was like, What do you mean? Why? And then I pitched 10X is easier than 2X and related it back to my research. And ultimately he read my thesis and my outcomes. And he told me not to read anything besides his science of scaling. Okay. This is directly from him. And he was a full advocate for what I was doing. And so For me in my life, when someone like that reads a culmination of my life's work and they give me a directive like that, it's really hard to ignore. So I literally take home the book, I give the book to my business partner, and I had her go through it. And then she actually ran me through the scaling science. And one of the things that I've realized is that I actually didn't need to go to grad school. I actually just needed to go apply the research that already existed. And so one of the things that I've been doing is I've been repping over and over the science of scaling. And applying it all different levels of people in all different contexts. And one of the things that I I think that I'm going to be shifting in the way that we view scaling is not to hit some, you know, goal of how much money am I going to make. Okay. It's actually how many people am I going to serve? Okay. So you're actually going to flip that from what I get and what I receive to what I give. And I'll give a specific example on this because it's the exact same advisor I was just talking about. I did this with her in a mastermind. Okay. 'Cause she like, I want a ten X. We literally just like got out of like a an all woman's entrepreneurial ⁓ weekend of sorts with Shoshana Raven, another eight-figure founder. And when I ran her through the scaling science, it first did turn into an actual extractive goal, which is okay, I'm already hitting $13 million in revenue. I'm gonna hit $109 million in revenue in three years or less. And that was actually one of the biggest things that I talked to her COO about, was that they had a five-year timeline. And from Hardy's perspective, that's too long, actually, because that makes you optimize for things that don't need to exist. ⁓ and there's a whole conversation about timeline as a tool that we can have here. So when you shorten the timeline, what that makes you do is actually redefine who you are and simplify your system so you can scale. And I know that's the name of your podcast. So we can go deep in the scaling science here. But what I actually saw this founder do is model something really important. Okay. After we got out of that mastermind, she went live on her social media and didn't say, I'm gonna go hit $109 million. She said, I'm gonna go impact 80,000 families. With this specific methodology, it's what I'm gonna what I'm gonna give actually is the thing that she reframed the goal within three years or less. Now, does she end up committing to that in the long term? No. But that does show you the difference in terms of how we set our goals, in terms of what we give instead of what do we get. And what we give is wholeserving and what we get is self-serving. And that's part of what needs to change as we create a new culture and a new way of doing things and a new way of being and new systems and structures to be actually. To know live in harmony with ourselves and with each other and the planet is it has to be whole serving, otherwise we're gonna go extinct. Yeah. Yeah, the the new system's just gonna completely reject that idea, right? And that's the interesting, as I hear you talking about this woman and her business and her mission and how she announces that to the world. If you come out and you say, My mission is to scale my company to $109 million in revenue, yeah. Me as a potential consumer, that doesn't really resonate with me. But if you come out and you announce your mission as I wanna serve eighty thousand families, that is something that I can connect with and I can be like, ⁓ that is a really inspiring mission, something that I would love to be a part of. Yeah. And it's it won't ever really stick and land if you are saying those things for the purpose of it registr for a marketing purpose, right? Like it you really do have to kind of believe and connect with it. Is that totally true? Is that what you've seen? Well, I'm gonna go right back to Hermosy and Tony Robbins on this one because I know there's been a lot of stuff about the Hermosy interview being taken down, and I haven't had anybody ask me about it yet, but I actually did have a really unique perspective on what happened in that interview because the other researcher that I got to meet through that grad school process was someone by the name of Richard E. Boyatsis, who's a Case Western University researcher, Harvard University graduate, and he's been studying change over the last 60 years. Okay. Not new by any means. So how does change actually happen from the individual organizations, the community, all the way up to the country and even the global processes. So he has a complex theory that does this, that's been tested and so on and so forth. And so I got these two different pieces of feedback based off of the research that I was proposing. And then I let go of it and founded Cultural Catalyst with this ideal of creating a new culture, of catalyzing culture specifically. And what does that do, right? Catalyzing culture, right? The body gets inspired by it. Like when we reached out to you, we were probably like cultural catalyst, let's talk. Okay. And that was on purpose. We did that so that you would self-identify and say, I am also a cultural catalyst. That's actually an ideal identity I hold for myself. And that ideal identity actually creates intrinsic motivation that pulls you towards what you want. And what we actually saw in the Tony Robbins and Hermosy interview, I'm actually gonna break down through both scaling science, through consciousness science, and through change science all in one conversation. So stay tuned. My book actually got extended since the one you read it because I've been agreeing all these things. And no one on the planet is doing this except me. So When we actually looked at what happened in that interview, and Hermosy is a perfect person to describe push, force. Okay. Force is associated with taking it's life taking. It's not life-giving. Okay. It's under 200 on the scale of consciousness, which is associated with fear. And what happens in the body is it literally goes into fight or flight. You're focused on problems first and it depletes the body. Okay. And so one of the things that we saw Tony do was literally connected him to a higher vision, one that activated him emotionally. That actually ⁓ had meaning to him, okay? Cause he's already hit 100 million, right? That's an extractive base goal. I'm gonna go for a hundred million dollars, okay? That is what he's gonna get. And yes, he was able to have the discipline and the push and the grind enough to be able to do what most people could never do. And at the same time, he got there and I was like, I feel completely empty, okay? Well, that's because what Hardy would say is you set the goal on the wrong wall, okay? You forgot that the process of getting there is just as important as the destination itself. And so we got to see Tony find something that he was emotionally compelled by, which was that I'm gonna impact men who are in a position that I can emotionally connect to. Okay. That moment of hitting a hundred thousand dollars in my bank account, that for Hermosy was just like, ⁓ my God, I've made it. Okay. More so than hitting a hundred million. And then you literally got to see Tony Robbins in real time be like, okay, what if you helped. A hundred thousand men do that in three years, in twenty-four months, in twelve months, literally scaling science in real time. And you could see in in Alex's physiology that he was changing, right? Anabolic Alex versus analytical Alex. Analytical Alex is what's called parasympathetic activation. He's in fight or flight, and his mind is in what's called a task mode network where he's focused on problems and it's depleting, it's boring. Life no has no purpose. Right. And that's why he's like, life is suffering. Okay. So when we connect to a vision that's greater than ourselves, and that's one of the tenets of being a cultural catalyst, when we set a goal, which can't come before we have a vision, the vision has to be emotionally compelling enough that we're able to go through hell and high water to achieve it. And the reason why is on a physiological and a neurological level, having a vision that is emotionally compelling, like you saw Tony connect him to, because it changed his physiology. He smiled. He got all energetic, right? That's actually connecting one to one's vision in a way that creates PEA, which stands for positive emotional attractor. The body goes into rest and digest. And it also creates a neural network where the mind can actually be open and collaborate and can go into creative thinking. So we got to see that all in real time. And, you know, the video was taken down, at least I heard this past week, and there's questions as to why, but there's the real, you know, the vulnerability of being seen in the I just did what Tony Robbins told everyone not to do, which is the ultimate failure is lack of fulfillment. And and what we just saw, even though he's got the the accolades and the money and the and the presence and the influence, we got to see, well, it didn't actually give him what he wanted when he got there. So now we get to see him have a new goal that's focused on contribution and not just some arbitrary financial metric to prove something to himself. Wow. First, before I get into any kind of follow up underlining, I am inspired by your enthusiasm on this subject. It's rare that you find and you talk to somebody who speaks about literally anything with as much energy as you just have been speaking about what you're working on in your research. So I really thank you for for finding that for yourself and then doing your work to share it with us. ⁓ because that spark within you is obviously like you found it and ⁓ Yeah. I really applaud you for for that. Thank you. Yeah. So there's a lot there. Where I want to start is coming back to where we began the conversation, which is this shift in the world order, in the system in which we are operating within. Yeah. What about this future system is and this change that we're going through is calling for this shift within the leaders. That are operating within this system. Like what about this system is going to be different about how we operate today that is going to require operators and leaders to work in line with the method that you're speaking of? Number one is self-leadership. Okay. Leadership is often viewed as the thing that I do to get make make things happen, okay? At its very minimum, right? And there's a lot of research on leadership. And part of the reason I made the thesis to go to grad school was. Because I realized that the way we're developing our leaders is actually backwards. Okay. ⁓ and there's a whole conversation as to why I realized that leaders were being developed backwards. And ultimately the way we were creating organizational change was actually backwards too. And part of it is because there is new research and new science that hasn't been integrated at the organizational and at the leadership level yet. That's part of what we're doing with cultural catalysts. So that's the first thing. And by self leadership, I mean you are the captain of your consciousness, okay? And I'm gonna call on the stoic master himself, who I'm blanking on the name of at the moment, but the Marcus Really. Yes, we're gonna call him Marcus. And Marcus's master skill was that basically he could change the way that he viewed reality. Okay. No matter what cards life gave you, he could change the way he saw it. Okay. That is what I call being a captain of your consciousness. And so no matter what it is that you're experiencing, no matter how much pressure you're under, no matter how much you can't see the light and know what direction you're going. That's actually going to be really normal in where we're headed right now, just because there's going to be a lot of noise, just because there's so much going on, there's so much change happening. And one of the key skill sets of scaling exponentially is actually being able to discern the signal from the noise. And how do we actually do that? Number one, listening. Okay. And I'm not talking listening in terms of I hear you talk. I'm talking about can you sit in the field of consciousness? In the the space that holds everything that you can observably see, and can you hear and you can you feel and can you sense what the right direction is to go? Okay. So there is an inner attunement that is needed to be it's literally required to be able to lead with precision through complexity right now. So that's like the base level skill. And I actually had a conversation with a neuroscientist about this last week, who literally helped teams. Who are in high pressure environments move forward with precision and clarity in complex environments. And it actually is from self-leadership. Okay. That's the first thing. It's not out there. Leadership doesn't start out there. It is your leadership and your ability to be able to discern what is true and what is not true and to be able to move forward with precision from a place of inner knowing. So that's the first thing. And then the second thing, in terms of self-leadership. And then the leadership of actually being able to require to be able to bring something new into form is actually going to be around people who share your vision of the culture that you want to create. We call that collective shared vision in intentional change theory. And that's actually one of the things that makes a social identity group, like the New York Rangers or the Jets or the Giants, they all have a collective shared vision for their teams winning. Okay. And up until now, there hasn't been a social identity group for cultural catalysts. Because primarily the social identity groups are all around organizational change. However, we see with B Corps and nonprofits and churches and even businesses going to solve real-world problems. So we can actually use these vehicles as a way to create societal change. But what Machiavelli told us in 15 is that we cannot sustain change efforts when the existing system is designed to protect itself. And what that means is that we have to be surrounded by the right people to be able to sustain our change efforts. And I'm not saying that from a place of common sense. I'm actually saying that from a place of science. Okay. What change science actually tells us is to be able to sustain desired change. It is neurobiologically impossible to do it alone. So having the right people around you who share your vision, who have similar levels of competence and have compassion for your challenges and your hardships, and who share similar levels of energy and mutual activation, which yes, we can even go down to consciousness on that, because that's what we're speaking to, literally can affect whether the nervous system and the body gets fuel and can sustain the change efforts through the inevitable challenges of the systems trying to protect itself and trying to prevent you from making the change. Or whether or not you're gonna be able to sustain your change efforts. Yeah. So I mean, in what you just ended with, you can look at this shift that we're going through in this changing world order, in the in the foundation, in this system as a real opportunity where the old system that 20, 30 years ago was a lot stronger and would have been much more able to kind of defend itself to any individual or any organization trying to make this shift, trying to lead a different way, that system is getting much weaker. So the ability for us to be a part of and create this change in the world and the way that we lead ourselves and and our organizations and and ⁓ put ourselves out there is much more likely to succeed. I'm not sure if that's related at all. But it's well, I just want to bring it down to something that's much more relatable to people because I know I've had to deal with this at depth because of you know, answering a calling breaks all societal norms and family ties. So like Or family attachments to say the least. When you're trying to do something new, your family oftentimes prevents you from doing it. Right? They see who you've been, the failures, failures you have. They don't see the vision that you hold for yourself and the impact that you want to make on the world. And so what they inherently try to do is keep you who you are and where you are. Keep you safe. The system is literally designed to keep itself that way. And it's not from a place of trying to hurt you or anything like that. It's literally because it it creates safety. Literally in the structure of the family system itself. Okay. And the way that change happens is the same exactly at every single s way the fractal. An organization, depending on the side of it, can be the size of a family, or a bigger organization can be, you know, a family and an extended family. So, you know, I'm saying like these are these are many microcosms of macrocosm problems. And so the same thing is true is that when we go off to go be ourselves and go answer for the call for whatever it is that we're doing, that's our unique thing to do. The system is literally trying to protect you and prevent you from doing it. And so being surrounded by the same people who believe in you, who share your vision for where you're going, who see your capacity and your potential, those people are what we call the non-negotiable infrastructure for you to be able to sustain your change efforts. And the same thing is true, whether it be in a partnership, at an organizational level, all the way up to the country and even to the global processes, that you have to be surrounded by people who share your vision. Otherwise you're gonna the This this existing system is going to prevent you from sustaining those change efforts. Yeah. It's going to completely extinguish that spark because it's just it's seen as a complete threat. And they just want to keep you safe. So you need to be around people that, you know, are as crazy as you are, right? Trying to completely change the world and do something a completely different way. ⁓ which is super exciting. You brought up intentional change theory. Is that really the foundation of your research and the work that you're doing, or what is intentional change? Change theory. So intentional change theory is the science of change that was ⁓ created by boyatts specifically. And so I got introduced to him because my AI was like, based off your thesis, you need to talk to this guy. Okay. I had no idea who he was, but I reached out to him with my thesis and my outcomes and my proposal for research. And he responded validating my thesis, actually. And he said, ⁓ what you are saying as consciousness as the root of systemic change is actually what I call self-awareness. In what's called the emerging field in intentional change theory. So I got validated from both Boyat's and Hardy in two totally different directions. And I'd also like to point out it was like the universe being like, here is your unique course study, right? No university could have made something so specific for me. And the beauty about it is that he's been the pioneer in cultural level, like what's called fractal change. Okay. ⁓ most of the research is organizational level change, but there's not nearly as much research just due to the how much ⁓ data is needed, the longitudinal aspect of the research and how much many resources are needed to be able to study cultural level and global level change. So I'm actually taking this existing research, integrating it and building a system with hardy scaling science in mind, something that can be greater than me. ⁓ that's also focused on the highest signal and not noise, focusing on the one thing that we're doing, and integrating consciousness science as studied by Dr. David Hawkins as the route, and integrating these three different re pieces of research into a repeatable infrastructure that actually creates societal level change. Where does somebody start? Where where do you start with people? Right. I I think anybody listening to this is going to be nodding their head along, just fully engaged in what you're talking about. At least me. I'm speaking from my perspective. Like I am totally bought in, I believe, in this vision of the future. I completely agree with what you're saying, this vision that you have cast. But where does somebody start? If they wanted to be a part of this shift and start operating in alignment with where we're going and what is going to be working in the future, not only because it's going to be advantageous to do so, but because they truly do believe in that being the right way. Where does somebody start? The first thing that ⁓ needs to happen when someone hears me is, you know, deciding whether or not they want to identify as a cultural catalyst. Okay. So we are an identity based movement. And The decision on whether to participate in the social identity group is whether or not you consider yourself as a cultural catalyst. Just as my dad is like, I'm an IU Hoosiers fan. And when I went to the bowl game this last year, I was surrounded by 55,000 of my best friends. Okay. He didn't talk to any of them, but he automatically assumes best friends with all of them because they're in the same social identity group. So on our website, we actually have a quiz that can help you find out whether or not you're actually a cultural catalyst. Okay. So that's step one is what does it actually mean to be a cultural catalyst? And Am I one? ⁓ and once you either identify as a cultural catalyst or not, the biggest thing that you can make is actually start going by that. So like when you start your podcast and then you introduce yourself to people, it's like, hi, I am Jacqueline. I am a cultural catalyst. I'm the CEO, co-founder, and systems architect of the cultural catalyst network. Okay. It's part of my identity, okay? And that actually owning that identity can actually start changing the behavior that you make because identity is the strongest force and in one of the strongest forces in the world because. you're automatically predispositioned to start taking action and alignment with who you want to become. And there's a lot of research behind this. So that's the first thing is like either opt in or opt out of being a cultural catalyst and start introducing yourself to that as others and watch the other people around you start raising their hand too. That's how you'll start finding your team. Okay. And the second thing is that we're actually in the process of doing right now is offering different events, both in person and online for different levels of leadership. So we're not necessarily going by title. We're actually going by level of leadership that you're operating based off of Maxwell's leadership scale. So ⁓ we've built out infrastructure for people who are not even considering themselves as leaders, who call themselves cultural catalysts, people who are leaders who are producing results, leaders who are people developers and doing so through teams consistently. And then lastly, people who follow you for who you are and what you stand for. So we have events both in person and online, some most of which are application-based. And we also have something that is about to be rebranded that's totally scalable from anywhere in the world. That if you want to be a cultural catalyst, the most important thing when I said to being a leader is that self-leadership piece. And we actually have a cultural catalyst on demand library of resources for you to use to develop that self-leadership that's required to be able to lead through the noise and to be able to pick up the signal. And to be able to be stable and capable no matter the conditions, and to be able to lead or with love and consciousness. So we're building out quite substantial right now. It has lots of different levels to it. ⁓ and if you go to our website, you can learn more. Amazing. So it's starts by that identity shift, identifying as a cultural catalyst. If it is something that resonates with you, you know, you can explore more and figure out if that is in fact the case. And then really the foundation of it all is that. Core tenant of self-leadership and acting that out and living by that. What are the other tenets of being a cultural catalyst? You talked about self-leadership is one. What are the other so the other leadership that's really important in the system that I'm designing is making sure that everyone who's in the network is calibrating at 200 on the scale of consciousness. Okay. And what I mean by 200 on the scale of consciousness was a researcher and a physician took scientific rigor to the realm of consciousness, which is the underlying field that holds the material reality that you can see and witness. And he brought scientific rigor to measure it, okay? On a scale, a logarithmic scale that goes from zero to a thousand, zero being death, a thousand being enlightenment, and two hundred being the critical threshold of life itself. And that's marked by integrity. And integrity is not necessarily doing what you say you're gonna do. Integrity is actually wholeness. Okay. Integrity is actually power because in who you are, this essence This awareness that is observing and hearing and feeling this conversation with me, that part of you is either contributing to life without even having to do anything, or it is taking from life. Okay. And so part of what we've made sure to do, and part of the reason why we have different pathways for different people and applications and so on and so forth, is to make sure that the people in the network are actually giving to life, that they are calibrating at 200 or above. That they themselves are operating from a level of wholeness, right? Because when you're in wholeness, you're automatically whole serving, right? And you're automatically trying to provide something that's greater than yourself. This also is structurally imperative in creating a system that actually adds to life instead of takes from it, because the the main thing, one of the main things from intentional change theory is that notion of PEA. ⁓ The positive emotional attractor, that state in the body where you're in rest digest and you're also in open mindedness and collaboration. Okay. So that happens when the body is in PEA. Okay. I my belief is when we are at 200 on the scale of consciousness, we are in PEA. Okay. We're in integrity or above. And when we are contributing in a system where everyone is positively contributing just through their essence, okay, we can actually build a self self sustaining system. But when you add people into the system who are not under that critical threshold, and I'm not judging them because I've been there and we have resources for you to help get you above that critical threshold, right? What happens is that starts to dilute the network. It starts to halt change efforts and it starts moving negative energy, negative norms, negative behaviors, negative ways of doing through things through the system. And right now we see this with social media, right? Anyone can have a voice. Okay. And I'm not saying I'm trying to mute people. I'm just trying to make sure that the communication of energy is moving in the correct direction. So it actually adds to your life instead of takes from it. Amazing. Can you repeat one more time what P E A, what that acronym chance are? Totally. So positive emotional tractor. So there's two states that either instigate change or halt change through tipping points. Okay. Tipping points are the the phases that move you through different parts of the change process. And PEA tipping points are positive tipping points. NEA tipping points are negative tipping points. They do different things to the brain and they do different things to the body. And whether or not you get fueled by them or you get halted by them, literally. So this whole idea of us doing things alone, literally neurobiologically impossible. You know, and at the end of the day, the other aspect of leadership that I want to really make sure is important because I want to build off a Daniel Schmachtenberger, the guy, the system scientist. He was like, the World Health Organization tells you all do all these things, right? All these initiatives. And then the last one is collaboration. Okay. None of these things can happen unless we collaborate. Okay. So the only way we can collaborate is if we're in PEA. If we're in rest and digest. If we're in a place neurologically where the brain can be in creative thinking and can actually hear another person, right? We need to be in a place of wholeness. So this is just as much as like a societal problem as as much as it is a spiritual emergency at the moment. That life and evolution is asking us to evolve. Okay. Yeah. ⁓ and this is how it works. And and part of how tipping points work too is that like tipping points can either be enacted on you, like someone dies, or you get fired, or like you get a diagnosis, right? And that makes a change process occur. And that's external, right? Or we can actually learn to facilitate our own tipping points. We can actually learn to participate in evolution. And that's part of what we need to do as cultural catalysts and especially as leaders, but cultural catalyst leaders together, is that we need to be able to rapidly change our way of looking at things and being able to respond instead of react so that we can be able to again lead with precision and with clarity. Absolutely. Respond instead of react. Right. You always hold the power in how you can react to an event. I think that was maybe the line you were hinting at earlier. It's that events aren't what harm us, it's our reaction to those events that harm us. And that's kind of sounds like the foundation of self leadership, which I A hundred percent when I first read those words, that completely changed my life forever. ⁓ you know, I had spent a long time I wasn't raised with religion, ⁓ and then I took, you know, whatever philosophy in class had or college had like the whole cliche, took philosophy one ⁓ one. I'm like speaker-1: What? This is gonna change my life. speaker-0: Totally. I was just like, but then I found stoicism and that ⁓ really became a a foundation of my belief system and then that being the foundation of the stoic philosophy of it's not events that harm you, it's your reaction to those events. You are always in control and how you perceive what is out there. So how do you facilitate those tipping points? How can you create those own tipping points in your own in your own life? Yeah, totally. So there's probably multiple different ways that I can answer this question, but I can speak to ⁓ for myself because I do have one of the gifts of mindfulness and One of the things that I've learned in my ⁓ study of mindfulness, ⁓ primarily from Michael Singer, the surrender experiment and the untethered soul, in addition to Ray Dalio, actually. So I'm gonna bring both spiritual tradition and intellectual rigor to the same conversation, is that reality is actually truth. Okay. So what is happening in front of you, you can resist it, you can deny it, you cannot accept it, you can be mad at it, you can pretend it's not happening, you can blame it on other people, you know, you can do all these different things. However, what's happening in front of you takes 180 billion years to happen. Okay. And yet you have all these opinions on what you think should be happening or what should not be happening. Okay. That is the premise for what needs to be let go. Because when you let go of your reaction to what is unfolding in front of you. You're able to actually participate with life. You are a part of life. You are not the master control panel. Okay. You are not the god of life as much as the ego thinks it wants to be. And so part of it is whether it's traffic. Singer often talks about traffic being like the thing you can let go of yourself in, right? Or the weather, right? And yet we have so much bickering about the weather, ⁓ about you know, whether it's good or bad. It just is, okay. And what it's showing you is your built-up emotional reservoir of programs. That you've held on to that are literally reservoirs of negativity. Okay. It could be sadness, it could be grief, it could be anger, it could be desire and wantingness and cravingness, it could be shame or guilt, okay? These are different calibrated levels of consciousness that hold programs, okay? Those are operating systems that many of us have not chosen to choose. They've just been given to us and passed on through our nervous system, through our environment, through our genetics. Through our traumas and our dramas, right? And our karma and our incarnations, depending on how far you want to go. Okay. So life is constantly giving us information and we can use it to actually take reality as it is. This is, you know, and I'm gonna refer refer to Dalio here because the way that you make progress is literally through reflection plus pain equals progress, okay? And mindfulness is ultimately a practice of reflection, okay, whether it's writing. Or observing what's happening in the moment or how you feel or what you're bickering about on the inside, all of these things, we cannot be able to move forward mindfully unless you are aware of what is happening in your own awareness in this moment in time. Yeah. And so reality is part of that process. And why 50 Cent says reality is his biggest drug, right? He came from, you know, really harsh conditions all the way up to a multi-billionaire hedge fund guy who started in the middle class and they're all saying the same thing. And so we can actually use the reality, whatever ha is happening in our life as medicine, as fuel that can be transmuted into lessons and principles. That means where we can move forward mindfully and actually proceed forward and make progress. Yeah. And again, the foundation or the starting point of being able to do that is your recognition and awareness that you are in control of that decision and doing that. Right. It's it's on you to to make that decision and and ⁓ have that interpretation, have that reaction. It's on you, right? The reality of events, the reality itself inherently objectively is not up to you, but your interpretation and your reaction and what you do about it is up to you. Right. And you can choose the path of navigating it more productively or you know, completely reacting it and using it as an excuse to ⁓ have some sort of negative behavior. But I love what you said about mindfulness, right? It is the reflection of awareness and a reflection of the reality of what consciousness is. And anybody that is meditated can resonate with this idea, right? It took me three years of meditating to really recognize that the point of meditation was not to spend 15 minutes completely blank and completely empty of thoughts or things that I'm noticing. The practice of meditation is really just For 15 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever, going through that process of getting distracted and being captured by something that you're paying attention to, whether that's a thought, whether that's a you know, a feeling in your knee, an itch, whatever, and then recognizing it and coming back to the space of just consciousness, of just empty consciousness. It's that constant getting distracted, recognizing that you're distracted and coming back to whatever it is that that present moment. Like that is the practice of mindfulness, is the awareness of The reality of consciousness. And then flexing that muscle, building that muscle through the repetition of intentional mindfulness practice is what is going to give you the skill set and the ability to be able to do that in your everyday life. Where when I'm in a conversation with you right now, I can notice myself, you know, maybe getting distracted, wandering off, thinking about something and coming back to this present moment and listening. Yeah. So one thing that you had mentioned that you might want to bring up is how you can use timeline as a tool. Yeah. How can you use timeline as a tool? Cool. So timeline as a tool is a technique that has been coined by Dr. Benjamin Hardy. So this is one of the key pillars of the science of scaling, which I want to be really specific in defining what it is, which is how do you scale 10x or more in three years or less? Okay. So one of the things that Hardy talks about is exponential growth and incremental growth are not the same thing. So even talking to a founder and saying scaling, she's like, we are scaling, and they're scaling three X. Okay. That is not the same thing as Hardy's scaling science. That is 10x or more in three years or less. Okay. So when you use that frame, which is the first part of the scaling science, which is broken down into three different sections. The frame, which includes the possi impossible goal and timeline. Okay. The floor. So the floor is basically what gets gets illuminated once you set the frame. And you can see everything below your floor once you set the frame, basically. And then the last pillars focus. Okay. Once you let go of what's below your your your floor, then you're able to focus on the simplified path that gives you the ability to scale. Okay. So the first pillar of scaling science is what's called the frame and the impossible goal and timeline. People often use the word big hairy audacious goals or stretch goals to indicate what an impossible goal is. And I want to be really clear on what impossible goal is, which is setting a goal that is basically impossible. Based off of who you currently are and your current capacities. Okay. And the goal is meant to literally redefine who you are. Okay. It is literally a transformational process itself. That's why it's so fun. And ⁓ one of the pillars of a frame, which the frame is how you make your decisions, okay? It's like a frame is like putting blinders on a horse specifically. And that helps the horse be not be distracted from certain things and stay focused on certain things. And that's exactly what the frame is meant to do in the scaling science because what happens is it illuminates and helps you be able to make decisions with precision. Okay. So you make every single decision in every aspect of your life through that frame. I'll give an example. The founder, she came to me asking whether or not she should, you know, make some decision. And I use the 10X within three years frame. Okay. And then that showed us one of her businesses needed to be sold. Okay. ⁓ It brought complete utter illumination. She wasn't willing to pay that price, but it did bring illumination to if she was going to do that. That was what was required. And so the same thing is true for using frames and timelines. And the reason why we need to use a three year timeline or less is because oftentimes when we set timelines that are too long, it makes it out in the future. Okay. When we set anything more than three years, it's like, ⁓ I don't have to do that right now. That's out there. But when we make it three years or less, it actually makes the decision close enough where I can actually filter my decisions in the moment right now, just like we did with that founder. Okay. Since we use the three-year frame instead of the five-year frame, right? The three-year frame, she would have had to sell one of our businesses, the five-year frame, she could have kept that business, right? Right. So that was able to help filter her decision literally in that moment, just through using timeline as a tool. And one of the things that Hardy teaches is how time is actually holistic. Okay. So we can actually go into the future. And make decisions based off who we want to be, which is based off his future self-research. And that's actually how we make decisions is we filter it through who we want to be. That's why calling yourself a cultural catalyst literally will help you start filtering your decisions through who you want to be. And the same thing goes true for scaling science and scaling, whether it be an impact goal, a moonshot, some type of organizational goal or anything along those lines. It helps you simplify your system because every single decision is made through that frame. And if the timeline's too long, then we're optimizing for things that shouldn't exist. And the example is that when JFK many years ago was like, we're going to the moon in seven years, okay? Or people always choose like a 10-year timeline because it seems like a good number, right? There's not a reason. And what happens is you don't start executing on it because it's out there. And so we did all these what Hardy viewed as unnecessary additional trainings and missions to the moon that could have saved us a lot of money. That could have saved us a lot of time and could have gotten us there in half the time or less, right? And that's because oftentimes as engineers and systems builders, we think we need certain things in our system. And what happens is most of that stuff is not true, actually. And whether you like Elon or not, he's really good at simplifying his systems to cutting out the stuff he doesn't need to only the essential. And that's what we get when we scale exponentially and being able to use things with a timeline. That makes us be like, well, I can't just achieve that based off I'm gonna have to figure out a new way to do that. I'm gonna have to like, you know, get creative. I might not even have a way to do what I think it is I want to do. And part of that is being able to sit in this unknown space and find a focused path based off of what we can take action now versus sometime in the future. Yeah. Using timeline as a tool. And yeah, Elon is absolutely a master at that if you read his story. He is a master at taking something that seems impossible and then putting it to like, no, we're gonna do that in a year. It's just wild. But yeah. So using timeline to it as a tool comes down to setting a timeline for some big, hairy, audacious thing that you're gonna strive to achieve in a timeline, right? Let's say three years where it forces you to change who you are at a fundamental level, right? It forces you to change. And then using timeline as a tool, so you're not setting it out so far. In the future, that it is something that you can use as a filter to make decisions today, right? Using timeline as a tool so that this then becomes a filter that you use to make decisions today. ⁓ and it just forces the action necessary in order to make it happen. And then also when you set a goal like that, 10x or more in three years or less, it's gonna force you to completely redefine and rethink how you do what you do and tap into that. Intuitively creative energy within you, which is gonna fully engage you with the project and with the problem, which is gonna pull that amazing thing and the amazingness out of you. ⁓ which is amazing. Okay, amazing. And then the you talked about this idea and it sounds like you have a lot of resources available in the cultural catalyst program. So everybody go check that out. But if you could give us maybe one thing. So you talked about the scale of consciousness and We could have do whole conversation just on the scale of consciousness and why that discussion is just being completely repressed in our society. Like I feel like if you go talk to the average person about the scale of consciousness, they're just gonna completely reject the idea as just some woo-woo thing, which is again, you can look into the history of why that kind of conversation is completely suppressed and repressed the history of the propagation that has created that kind of environment that we live in. But that's again a part of the exciting transition that we're going through in this new system where that is gonna be. kind of a foundational ideology and you hear more and more people talking about it, which is really cool. But how do you elevate your level of consciousness? Mm-hmm. So one of the resources that we have available is it's in the process of rebranding, but it's called the World Tapping Circle. And the World Tapping Circle was created by a master emotional freedom technique practitioner and teacher that stands for EFT. EFT is a system that is you is based off of actually a tremendous amount of research ⁓ in regards to overcoming PTSD specifically. And what it is, it's known as tapping to people. And what you do is you tap on the different meridians of the body, which is based off of 2,000 years of Chinese, you know, medicine research. And you combine that with cognitive behavioral therapy, which is the most researched version of therapy, okay, in terms of its efficacy. And then you combine that with spiritual tools such as forgiveness, acceptance, respect, love, mercy, right? And ⁓ What it does is it literally helps decondition you. Okay. So one of the things that we have as cultural catalysts, our biggest enemy is cultural catalysts, is cultural conditioning. Okay. Our cultural conditioning is what you talked about. It's, you know, the things that our family modeled to us. It's the way that society does things. It's what happened to us in school and whether we liked it or not. And whether it actually helped us develop ourselves into the people that we wanted to be and our traumas and our dramas and ultimately all the layers of programs. And I'm gonna refer to it in terms of the computer because I think it's really helpful. A lot of us, we've never actually did like, you know, upgraded our operating system on the vehicle that we live in. Okay. We literally were just given it. We weren't really like saying, I will accept this upgrade. There was none of that. You actually just you just received it through trans transmission because that's how your nervous system works. Especially as you're a little one between zero and seven, even in the womb, literally, there is no barrier between you and your brain and your nervous system. So you are receiving energy that is literally carrying these programs. Okay. And this is Literally how cell phones work. Okay. They are transmuting information over a network through frequency. And then you tune into different bandwidths, whether it be, you know, this radio station that's Screamo, or this radio station that's, you know, rock and roll, or this radio station that's like soulful sultry, right? Like there's all these different radio stations and we're all tuning into one of them. And many of us have actually never chosen what station we're tuning into. And so part of that is we actually first of all get to realize hold on a second, I can actually choose what station I tune into. And part of the ability to actually tune into the radio station that we actually want to tune into is that we have to let go of the programs that are causing us to actually choose the Screamo 247. Okay. And those are held in our nervous system as an operating program. And these are not inherently good or bad. Okay. And really, nothing even needs to change because you're really perfect as you are. Acceptance is the ultimate medicine. And at the same time, once we can actually accept that they are there and unconditionally love ourselves, no matter whether or not we release them or not, we actually have the ability to put in new programs, new belief systems, new ways of doing things. And sometimes you even receive messages. You ever receive the download? It's like it's like a a your your little antenna that is you picked up a new program that So can sometimes completely change your reality. And the same thing is true. And so part of one of our paths as cultural catalysts is actually the ability to go do that with a master practitioner. So I've already had to learn how to do it. I'm both a practitioner and I do this with people, but it's actually how I deliver results through my team. But ultimately, I believe it's the master skill set that gives you the ability to be that self-leader that we're speaking to. And so for people who are like, you're right, holy crap, I can be the creator of your reality. Welcome. That's step one. Okay. ⁓ and we actually have tools and resources to help you actually learn how to do that. And whether that being you literally have someone else teach you and tell you what to do and you just listen and you do it, or you actually learning how to do it yourself and doing that with other people, we have resources and systems already built out for you to be able to do that. Because, you know, one one of the things that my teacher in Sonya often says is you either need to evolve or die right now. And I don't want to be that doom and gloom, but at the same time I kind of need to be. ⁓ because when we look at our morat mortality and look at the fact that we're gonna die. That actually helps us find purpose and meeting in overcoming the challenges and the hardships that would come in humans. So yes, you can either choose to die consciously or you can choose to live fully. It's up to you. And it's actually much more exciting when you actually get to experience the the full bandwidth of the experience, whether it be good or bad, because that is where we find our purpose and our meeting. Absolutely. You mentioned this idea that the awareness and the recognition of death, that is another foundational pillar of the Stoic philosophy. I actually have memento more Tattooed on my wrist. I don't I d it feels weird. But ⁓ it is when you have that recognition of death, it really breathes the the energy and awareness into life because it's just forces you into this present moment. But yep. Two final questions for you, Jacqueline. Again, thank you so much for the time today. But when somebody when you're helping somebody or people walk through this journey, where do you see the most friction show up of this journey of becoming a cultural catalyst and living more in alignment with that identity? Where do you see the most friction show up for people? Is it in the beginning? Is it in like kind of somewhere in the mid murky middle? Like where do you see the friction show up for people? Interesting. I actually haven't had too much friction, believe it or not. I feel really blessed to be at a point where I finally figured out how to do sales without having to sell, which is I, you know, one of the things that I needed to do in the last couple of years was ⁓ get out of coaching and step into architect and also. get out of, you know, saying, I'm gonna provide some specific result because I was finding that my results were so beyond what anyone could possibly imagine that it was limiting me and them in terms of what could be provided. And so I actually ended up getting drawn to a gentleman who he provides luxury coaching, his it's ⁓ luxuri luxury marketing. And he basically was like, are you selling a Bugatti or are you selling a Civic? Or no, he's like, are you selling a Ferrari or are you selling a Civic? And I was like, actually, I think I'm selling multiple Bugattis because the price tag of becoming the person that you're feeling in this conversation was quite high. Made me realize that the way that I needed to be able to communicate what I was offering needed to change. And one of the things that he taught me was that I needed to create a dream. And that's what luxury does. They're not selling tangibles. Why in the world would you spend 10 times, a hundred times, a thousand times exactly the same thing to get you from point A to point B? Okay. Functionally, that doesn't make sense. And from a premium marketing standpoint, you're selling when my parents were like BMW or Volvo, like this one has this feature and this one has this feature. That's premium. You're selling based off of features. But when you sell a dream, there's intangibles that's unique to each and every one of us. So for being for you, cultural catalyst is unique to you. Your dream of being a cultural catalyst is your unique cultural contribution that you're here to make. And so is mine. And there's ⁓ a collective shared dream that that comes into, actually. And so Cultural catalyst was founded off of it actually being a dream. He was like, you need to find an ideal identity and an outcome for the people you are here to serve. And at first I was like, enlightened warrior leaders. And turns out no one has that ideal identity. And eventually it actually came out of ⁓ one of our advisors' mouth. She said, cultural catalyst. And I started saying cultural catalyst, and people started being like, ⁓ my God, so am I. And then I got to read The Science of Change and I got to see that the first part of the change process is connecting with that ideal identity. And there's a collective shared vision. And so, you know, I got to reconnect with a woman I worked with many, many years ago. She was like, What are you up to? And I said, I just founded a movement called Cultural Catalysts. And she was like, Well, what is it? And then she was like, Never mind, I actually already know. And so for the first time, I communicate that I'm a cultural catalyst. I'm a founder of this network. And people are like, I am too. How do I get involved? Okay. So that's one of the biggest shifts that I've had to experience is that we're not selling something tangible. And quite frankly, we're not even selling anything. Although there is a transaction involved at certain steps of our process because there is exchange happening and value being received. However, what you're actually joining is a network. You're joining a peer network of people who identify as a cultural catalyst and they are collectively moving towards their individual and collective shared dreams of catalyzing culture. Which is, as you mentioned multiple times, the most one of the most important things is being surrounded by people when you're on your own journey of becoming. You need to be surrounded by other people who won't, you know, see that as a threat to you, but more so encourage that that transition that you're going through. And that was more the angle of the question was like as an individual who's going through this become this process of becoming a cultural catalyst, where do they experience the most friction in that journey? And I would imagine that it is like that I that initial identity connection to that identity. And then it's also the consistency of sticking with it and living by it on a day to day basis from an individual. Amazing. So my final question for you, Jacqueline, is a question, recurring question that I ask every guest. ⁓ but if you had a giant billboard that everyone in the world could see for ten seconds, what would it say and why? So I would probably say exactly what we sent to you to get this podcast, which is cultural catalysts, the time is now. Absolutely. Cultural catalog I want to step back there for a second because I'm gonna say it and I think you're gonna answer why it's important. Why did you open that email that said cultural catalyst the time is now? Well, it's kind of a pattern interrupt, right? It's like what is cultural catalyst? And it sounds like a big kind of movement. Right. It's like a cultural catalyst, the time is now. So it's just a kind of a compelling thing to click into. But then when I looked at your work, everything that you talk about just completely resonated with me, to be completely honest. Like I whether I'm looking at it at like the geopolitical, macroeconomic level, or in a lot of the conversations that seem to just be hitting me in my everyday life, whether it's just friends that I had never even like broached the subject with or other podcasts that I'm having, these conversations. It's just these conversations about this the spiritual transition that it seems like we're going through as a world, right? As a as a collective consciousness that we seem to be going through, there is a shift happening. Again, whether it's the geopolitical conversation, the macroeconomic conversation or the kind of spiritual conversation, there is a shift happening. Yeah. And everything that you're talking about is in alignment with that transition that I believe that we're going like it's built on the foundation of that shift happening and how we can successfully navigate that and thrive in the new future that is going to exist. So couldn't have been more excited for this conversation, not gonna lie. And ⁓ it was amazing. Yeah. And we could talk for hours and hours. I just want to touch on that last piece because this is really important because what we know about how change actually moves across the system, which I'm gonna review real quick and we're gonna close, is that change moves through the fractal, which is the individual, the dyad, which is a partnership. the team, to the organization, to the community, to the country, to global processes through two things, okay? A social identity group, like cultural catalysts, and resonant leadership, okay? And you just were used the word resonance, and that's exactly what I'm speaking to. That resonance that you and I have in this conversation is now literally gonna move this conversation and this information through your network, okay? And it's gonna cause PEA tipping points. For people to actually sustain their change efforts. And we are doing it in real time. Incredible. I'm honored to to have been a part of it and ⁓ really excited to continue to be involved in this conversation moving forward. But Jacqueline, would love to have you back another time. Thank you for the time today and the conversation. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Thank you for listening. The main thing I'm taking away from this conversation is that new systems are shaped by the people who are building during the transition. When the old way starts to break down, like we're seeing today, the next version is not just automatic. Leaders make choices. They decide what they reward, what they tolerate, who they listen to, and what kind of standard they set. Jacqueline's point was that this starts with the leader, but it does not stay and end with the leader. It spreads through the team, the company, and the culture around the business. If your vision is surrounded by people who only understand the old system, they will pull you back toward it. If you want to help create a new normal, You need people around you who can see that future with you and help you keep building toward it. If you want to get connected with Jacqueline Orin or learn more about what it means to be a cultural catalyst, you can find her website and links in the descriptions of this episode description. And if you run a coaching program, course, or mastermind, and your clients aren't doing the work that you know that they could be doing or getting the results that you know they could be getting, download the free program execution system toolkit in the description. It'll show you how to build what I call execution infrastructure. So you can get more of your clients to the transformation that your program promises. Thank you for listening, and I'll see you in the next one.