Latest / The Prompt / Ep. 567 | Content with a pulse: Building brand trust through storytelling

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Ep. 567 | Content with a pulse: Building brand trust through storytelling · The Prompt

• 0:01
  This is on base your one stop shop for solving your most
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  pressing B to B go to market challenges.
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  Each week, host Chris Moody and Paul Gibson talk to sales and
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  marketing leaders to get you in depth insights and creative
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  strategies to set your revenue teams up for success.
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  Well, hello everyone. Welcome back to a brand new
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  episode in the award-winning On Base podcast series.
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  I'm Paul Gibson, and I'm excited today that I'm talking to Callum
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  Brody. He's Associate Director of
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  Marketing at First Source Solutions.
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  And today we've got a great topic.
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  It's well, the name is Content with a pulse.
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  Callum sounds like an exciting project.
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  Looking forward to talking to it.
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  Thank you very much for coming on the show today.
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  Thanks. Yeah, cheers.
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  Thanks, Paul. Thanks for having me.
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  Looking forward to it. OK.
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  So it sounds like an interesting topic and very relevant for
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  listeners. We'll get into that.
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  But first, if you don't mind, just a quick simple question,
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  Callum, can you walk us through your journey, where you are
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  today and what inspired you to focus on this particular topic?
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  Absolutely, Yeah. So I'll start from the
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  beginning. So I was I was a journalist for
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  the 1st 10 years of my career after after finishing uni,
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  started off in local newspapers. So I started at my sort of
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  hometown newspaper, which was the SLA Observer and I cut my
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  teeth on general news. So kind of everything from it's
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  council meetings, Crown Court proceedings, all the way down to
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  sort of mileage, Fates, dog shows, everything in between
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  really. So I started in Slough, moved up
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  to Grimsby, all the glamour spots and a few few other places
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  in between, which was, which was great fun and I, I learned a lot
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  having sort of experienced that. I then moved to London where I
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  sort of rose through the ranks at AB2B trade publication that
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  focused on the general insurance market, spent about sort of five
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  or six years there, learned, learned a lot about sort of
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  publishing at that level. Obviously quite a niche, niche
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  target audience, but a great market is the insurance market.
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  And then, yeah, I really, really enjoyed my time there.
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  After that, I helped run the news coverage for EU KS biggest
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  consumer finance website, which is Money Saving Experts.
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  And I worked pretty closely with, with Martin Lewis on quite
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  a few high profile campaigns, which was a really unbelievable
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  experience. Really thoroughly enjoyed that
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  that that time did a lot of really, really good work that I
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  I feel kind of did did help people.
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  I left MSC kind of midway through 2017 and it's this point
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  where my career kind of pivoted more towards brand journalism.
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  So I joined a leading content marketing agency which supported
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  a number of global organisations in terms of kind of cutting
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  through the noise with multi format content that that
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  resonates with their target audiences.
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  And I learned, I learned a lot there, spent about six years at
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  that agency, moved up the ranks there.
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  In my current role, I'm part of the in house marketing team at a
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  company called First Source Solutions, which is a big global
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  business process outsourcing company.
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  I'm based in London. The company itself is say
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  globally in nature. So we've got big presence in in
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  the UK, we've got big presence in the US in India and other
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  parts of the other parts of the world.
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  Among other things, my role includes delivering multi format
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  content sort of integrated campaigns, which is designed to
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  drive brand awareness and and lower funnel engagements across
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  the various industry business units that we cater for here at
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  here at First Source. Excellent.
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  What a what a varied and interesting background.
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  I reckon the the journalism and the Martin Lewis.
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  I think there's a whole another podcast we can get into that
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  one. Absolutely.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So with the title being content
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  with the pulse, why in your mind do you think it's important for
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  B to B organisations to maybe move away from traditional
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  promotional content and focus more on, you know, building that
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  trust around your brand with an audience?
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  Yeah, building trust with your target audiences is really
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  fundamental in terms of generating connection that will
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  ultimately lead to acquiring and retaining customers, which is
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  kind of what it's what it's all about.
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  The best way to start building trust is obviously to 1st
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  consider your audience's point of view.
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  So what's keeping the awake at night?
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  What are the main challenges and opportunities facing their
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  business? Once you've considered the
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  audience's point of view, you can then start to develop
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  relevant and insightful content that addresses those those pain
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  points. And I think the temptation in
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  the past has been to focus primarily on promotional
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  messaging. So you know, what do we want to
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  say rather than what do the audience actually want to hear?
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  What do they want to know? That doesn't mean that you
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  shouldn't weave in the more promotional information, but it
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  certainly shouldn't be the headline.
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  And any promotional messaging should of course always be
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  relevant to the target audiences challenges and requirements.
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  So I think an effective piece of content marketing should
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  ultimately leave the audience more informed and engaged on the
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  topic in question. They may not necessarily be
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  ready to start a dialogue yet, but you've taken that first step
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  towards building trust and of course, brand awareness.
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  I think it's important to note that there's no silver bullet
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  when it comes to building trust with your target audience.
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  It takes time and a patient considered approaches is really
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  what's what's required. Yeah, and I think that trust is
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  often overlooked. I mean, part of the the demand
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  based technology is to give in insight, you know, intense
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  signals when when that journey starts from a prospect, oh,
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  look, they may be interested in us, they started exploring
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  something relevant. That's way too early to give it
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  to sales, right. That is where that trust element
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  comes in. And getting that brand out and
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  building the awareness and trust long before it gets to sales is
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  is often overlooked. It's a case of, oh, I saw a
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  signal, let's give it to sales. So, yeah, I think you put the
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  nail on that ahead there. That trust with an audience is
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  so important. And then the earlier you can
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  gain that trust, the more challenge you've got have been
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  successful going forward. Yeah, you can't.
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  You can't do, you can't do anything without it.
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  It's it's integral. You know, the the temptation is
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  always to kind of push, push for those conversions.
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  But without building the trust, you can't get to that point.
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  So it is, yeah. It's really, really is
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  important. Yeah, absolutely.
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  And for obviously a lot of companies who'll be listening to
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  this, it's a bit of a, a mind shift.
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  So I think we all agree that any sort of change in a business is
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  challenging. So when you're first starting
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  maybe this shift in content strategies, you know, maybe
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  you're in a traditional B to B setting and you're trying to do
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  something different. What kind of resistance did you
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  face when you did it and you think other people will face and
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  how did you approach it? So I first started kind of
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  working on this stuff. I moved from, as, as I mentioned
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  in my intro, I moved from that sort of editorial, pure
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  editorial journalism background into brand journalism, content
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  marketing, whatever you want to call it.
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  And I made that move almost almost 10 years ago now.
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  And back in those days, it was very different to how it how it
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  is now. So I think when I first started
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  working with B2B brands on their content marketing strategies,
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  the mindset within many organizations was that the focus
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  must be on promoting particular products or service offerings
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  with little or no consideration to the bigger picture in terms
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  of the audience's challenges or even the wider industry or, you
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  know, macroeconomic context. As I say, coming from an
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  editorial background, I was keen to emphasize the importance of
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  storytelling over jumping straight into the hard sell.
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  So it's about finding the human stories with the sort of pulse
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  beneath the surface of big corporations.
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  By finding that emotive human connection, I think it's it's
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  possible to start building that trust.
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  And once you've built that trust, it's much easier to start
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  taking your audience further down the funnel, as we say, to a
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  point where they're ready to start talking to you in a
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  meaningful way that that can lead to new business.
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  Yeah, absolutely. And did you feel that the
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  resistance that you got is similar to what other people
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  would face or you know, from a business perspective?
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  Do you mean what in in when I started out or now?
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  Yeah. So you want to, you want to
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  change your strategy and and get that trust element in it rather
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  than the promotional element. But did you get pushed back from
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  the business or a? Little bit, I think some some
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  were more sort of receptive than others.
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  The companies that we tended to work with back then were
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  obviously the fact that they were working with us, they did
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  understand, or at least they they kind of thought they
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  understood why it was important. So yeah, I think that the
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  pushback from those businesses was probably not, not so much,
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  but obviously the companies we were working with were huge.
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  So there, there might be people within the marketing teams or
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  comms teams that that totally got it.
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  But those people may be working in sales or solutions or
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  operations. Maybe took a bit more convincing
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  that, you know, it's not just about trying to put a product or
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  service in front of someone and expected them to kind of, you
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  know, want to start a conversation.
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  You have to find that hook. And that's where kind of
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  storytelling comes in. You know, what's the hook?
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  Why should they care what, what are they getting out of it?
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  And then you can start to build from there.
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  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And we hear lots of
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  conversations, right. We want to be a much more, you
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  know, account focused approach or whatever.
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  And then sales push back because all they want is more leads.
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  And actually you don't want more leads, you want better quality
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  leads. And so, you know, if if you're
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  bringing in companies that have understood and trust your brand
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  and we're bringing those people into the funnel rather than just
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  hitting anyone and everyone, it's going to be much more
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  successful for them. And sometimes that resistance is
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  something that you just have to do it and.
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  Prove it. Yeah.
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  We see. That a lot, Absolutely.
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  So that will make sense. So from a practical perspective
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  and again based on your own experiences, how does putting
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  the focus on identifying challenges rather than just
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  pitching solutions change the way we should think about
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  content creation in in these big organizations?
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  So I think it enables brands to amplify the issues and the
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  topics that matter to their target audience, thus enabling
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  brands to talk directly to the people that they want they
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  actually want to engage with. So essentially it's it's about
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  substance over slogans. And I think by adopting an
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  editorial instead of a, say, advertorial approach to content
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  creation, you start to build up a Bank of contact content assets
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  that are of genuine interest to your audience.
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  And this applies to all formats of content.
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  You know, it could be long, short form written articles,
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  case study, case studies, videos, landing pages, you know,
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  the works really. And when it comes to putting
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  this approach into action, the first crucial step is to make
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  sure you understand the full picture.
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  And this involves analyzing context, data, nuance and
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  applying A journalist mindset to unearth the story that matters
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  most to the target audience and hence moves the needle on your
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  brand. Yeah, I think your your
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  journalistic background gives you those skills to go and
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  identify those problems that may be a a traditional market.
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  So maybe wooden house. So definitely a good a good use
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  of previous history. Yeah.
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  So obviously, you know, with the all the onset of AI and all this
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  sort of stuff, things are changing, but I believe, and I'm
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  sure you do as well, that people are still the heart of, of
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  creative, creative industry and wanting that sort of stuff.
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  So what is it about the human stories that make them so
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  powerful in a, you know, the corporate context and, and, you
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  know, using your journalistic skills, how do you go about
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  actually uncovering them in these big companies?
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  Yeah, I, I. Totally agree.
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  I think just because you're in AB to B environment doesn't mean
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  your audience isn't interested in stories with a human element.
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  And I think actually that's, that's quite the opposite case.
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  I think. After all, human stories connect
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  us all and uncovering those human stories can take a little
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  bit of digging. But often when you scratch below
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  the surface, you, you quickly start to uncover a wealth of
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  potential storytelling collateral behind every, I
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  honestly believe this. Behind every product or service
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  offering there, there is a benefit to an end user,
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  obviously. And it could be a banking.
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  It could be a banking solution that protects vulnerable
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  customers against say fraud, for example, or providing high speed
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  broadband to remote parts of the world.
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  The key is to ask the right questions of the subject matter
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  experts within big companies to get to the bottom of the what,
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  the what and the why. And I think that the best way to
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  uncover these stories is to engage with as wider base of
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  stakeholders within the organization as possible.
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  So that could be sales people, you know, operations leaders,
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  solutions experts, different job roles look at the same issue,
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  but with a different very different perspective often.
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  And it's these different perspectives that can form
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  really powerful and engaging stories.
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  And at the end of the day, everyone has got a story to
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  tell. You know, it could be, this is
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  getting a bit extreme, but it could be, you know, every from
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  the cleaner to the CEO, everyone has got a story to tell.
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  And if the craft is uncovering the golden Nuggets that can form
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  the basis of a really compelling story that will resonate with
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  your target audience. That's so right.
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  And you need to be a storyteller from a sales perspective, but
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  you need to know what story you're telling.
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  And, and I, I think you're the word you use, which I use pretty
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  much every conversation I have with my sales team is why
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  understanding the why behind stuff, You know, why do you want
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  to do this? What's the actual issue you're
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  trying to achieve? Why is that important to you?
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  It's so it's so important and it's the same, you know, if you
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  don't understand the why, you might tell a story, but if you
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  don't understand the reason behind it, it's not as
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  compelling. So I definitely.
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  I subscribe to the sort of the five wise approach, which does
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  annoy salespeople a lot of the time.
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  And it's, you know, if someone, if someone's requesting a
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  content asset blog, for example, well, you know, why, why do you
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  want it? You know, I want it because it's
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  going to help me, you know, drive sales with this particular
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  organization. Well, why, why, why do you think
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  that? And the more you drill down into
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  the wire, you eventually get to the root cause of actually why
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  they'll want to do it and then how we can position it in a in a
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  way that will be effective. Yeah, absolutely.
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  So we, we often get people. So I want to buy some data from
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  you. So why do you want to do that?
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  Well, because we need more data. Well, why do you need more data?
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  Because our pipeline's full of rubbish.
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  Well, why would buying more data solve that?
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  I mean, as you say, you then dig into what the real problems are.
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  So, yeah, definitely agree with that.
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  So from your perspective then, how do you go about adopting an
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  audience focused mindset when you're creating content?
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  And are there any particular operational shifts that you need
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  to make sure this is successful? Yes, I think obviously getting
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  under the skin of your audience is obviously you know, very
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  important. Research your audience personas
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  and establish their particular pain points and intense signals
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  upfront. Obtaining top level buy in for
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  the concept is again very important.
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  You need everyone pointing in the same direction or else your
• 15:14
  objective is it's just doom doomed to failure.
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  Once you've done that, your brand conversation should
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  reflect 4 key aspects and those those are sort of the first one
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  being around honesty. So content should always deliver
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  an honest and clear reflection of the thoughts and values of
• 15:31
  the organization. The second one is connection.
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  So a good way of building a connection is showing your
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  audience how you've delivered in a similar situation.
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  So case studies and testimonials from within your organization
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  are a really powerful way of building a connection with the
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  audience. The third one is is value.
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  So your messaging needs to offer genuine insights that resonate
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  with the audience. And finally, the 4th, the 4th
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  point would be around reliability.
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  So you should never, never initiate a conversation unless
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  you intend to maintain that conversation.
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  And this last point emphasizes the need for sort of what we
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  call a drum beat approach to content distribution to doing it
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  in isolation doesn't, doesn't really work.
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  You know, if you're, if you're committed to it, you have to
• 16:16
  maintain it. And that could be, you know,
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  anything from sort of regular social posts, regular blog
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  updates, making sure your micro site is refreshed and up to
• 16:25
  date, you know, attending events on a regular basis.
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  Without that drum beat approach, you are going to struggle with
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  with your content marketing strategy.
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  Yeah, absolutely. And all of this stuff, it takes
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  time. And at the same time, we're all
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  under pressure to hit numbers and things like that.
• 16:43
  So have you found a way to balance the need for that
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  authentic audience first content we're all talking about
• 16:50
  alongside the the pressure to hit the goals, You know, maybe
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  from a promotional perspective you often hear.
• 16:56
  Yeah, I honestly don't think the two are mutually exclusive as we
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  sort of talked about earlier. I think the best way to achieve
• 17:03
  lower funnel success, you know, in terms of SQLS is through that
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  strip steady drum beat of human centric content.
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  It's the only way really you can drive meaningful long term
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  engagement with those key audience personas.
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  So I don't think it's a case of balancing audience first content
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  with hitting promotional goals. It's more a case of making the
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  development of quality audio first content a central
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  component of your strategy for delivering results for for sales
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  sales stakeholders. Yeah, makes sense.
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  And I'm assuming there's going to be people on the call or on
• 17:37
  the podcast at the moment thinking, oh, this is something
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  I'd like to get started with. Is there a cultural shift needed
• 17:44
  here? And and if there is, where would
• 17:46
  you, where would you say they should start?
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  And once I've got going, how do they keep that momentum going?
• 17:51
  Yeah. So I think back when I started
• 17:53
  this, it was more of an unknown. And I think now, you know, 2025,
• 17:58
  most large organizations these days do understand the need for
• 18:02
  content marketing. But I do think a lot of those
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  companies are putting the cart before the horse in a way.
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  So before investing in a content marketing program, it's
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  important to first ascertain what success looks like.
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  So whether it's boosting brand awareness, delivering lower
• 18:16
  funnel connections, or to be honest, as is usually the case,
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  it's a combination of both. Once you've established what
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  success looks like, then attention to turn to the
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  audience. So who are we targeting and how?
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  How do we want to engage with them?
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  More often than not, the answers revolve around human, human
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  centric content that gets to the root of particular pain points
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  or opportunities. What has changed since 2017 or
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  whenever it was I, I started is the development of technology.
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  And we talked about, you mentioned AI, you know,
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  leveraging AI and LLM tools like ChatGPT has become, you know,
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  it's no longer nice to have. It's a must have.
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  And it, it's really important to use to start thinking in those
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  terms when we talk about content marketing.
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  So being able to maximize output from these tools has become a
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  real differentiator. So, for example, it's, it's
• 19:10
  really important to understand how to tailor your prompts when
• 19:13
  using things like ChatGPT to uncover the best results in
• 19:16
  terms of, you know, everything from sort of campaign strategy
• 19:19
  to content development and audience targeting.
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  And it's something that we, we take quite seriously at at first
• 19:26
  source, which is where I'm, I am now.
• 19:29
  Ultimately success depends it, it lives or dies on buying from
• 19:34
  leaders outside of marketing. So without a support sales
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  solutions and operational teams, it really is extremely difficult
• 19:41
  to to kick start and maintain content marketing program.
• 19:46
  So that that is quite crucial. And I think the final thing to
• 19:49
  say on the point is just patience is really important.
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  So campaigns rarely deliver instant results.
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  It does take time, as we say to, to build trust and for that to
• 19:59
  translate down into into meaningful outcomes for the for
• 20:03
  the business. Yeah, everyone obviously always
• 20:06
  talks about the topic of AI. It's there to stay and it's,
• 20:09
  it's revolutionising the world. I mean, one of the interesting
• 20:12
  things we see a lot is that sales, particularly I speak to
• 20:16
  sales leaders often are losing a little bit of confidence in AI
• 20:20
  because often AI is driving their, their sales teams to go
• 20:24
  after things that in reality aren't real.
• 20:27
  And so like to turn it AI without the why.
• 20:30
  If AI says go and do that, but it can't give you the, the why
• 20:33
  behind it, start, start not to trust it.
• 20:36
  And I think that's what's happening.
• 20:37
  I'm, I'm assuming in creative circles as well as you're
• 20:41
  building content, if AI is building something that's not
• 20:44
  quite as you expected it to be or doesn't actually hit the mark
• 20:48
  that you want, there's a bit of a confidence issue there.
• 20:51
  Yeah, it's, it's an interesting point.
• 20:53
  When I first started using it or looking into it in my previous
• 20:57
  role, it was still kind of in its infancy.
• 21:00
  And I did notice a lot of issues with with the technology.
• 21:04
  So for example, we, we trialed it on a, on a blog for a, for a
• 21:08
  client and we noticed that a lot of the, a lot of the quotes that
• 21:12
  were being pulled out were completely fictional, obviously
• 21:16
  caused by what was known as hallucinations.
• 21:19
  And it was an issue because, you know, you can't, you can't
• 21:21
  submit a piece of content that's full of just falsehoods and in
• 21:25
  inaccuracy. So, so that was something to
• 21:27
  keep an eye on. I think as time has gone by,
• 21:29
  that's, that's kind of been ironed out to a large extent.
• 21:33
  Where you can minimize those issues is just around how you
• 21:36
  use the technology. So the kind of the prompts that
• 21:39
  you use, the information that you're submitting to platforms
• 21:43
  like ChatGPT to kind of drive the results so you can kind of
• 21:47
  influence what you're receiving. But on your point around kind of
• 21:51
  like the creativity side of things, I totally agree.
• 21:54
  I think it will never completely replace the human element of
• 21:58
  content. You know, there's something
• 22:00
  about human creativity that that AII don't think can can ever
• 22:04
  really replace. So it's about kind of merging
• 22:07
  the two. By doing that, you can create
• 22:10
  quite a powerful proposition really.
• 22:13
  But it's, yeah, certainly interesting times for sure.
• 22:16
  Yeah, we use AI agents a lot to, you know, take away all those
• 22:20
  manual time consuming tasks. So it leaves sales and marketing
• 22:24
  to do sales and marketing, which is what we really want to do.
• 22:26
  And I think as long as AI stays in it's lane like that, I think
• 22:30
  we'll all still have jobs in the future.
• 22:31
  That's the important thing. Yeah, let's hope so.
• 22:34
  So the proof of the pudding, I always say, is in the eating.
• 22:37
  And as you evaluate your past and where you are now, what's
• 22:41
  the would you say is the boldest brand move you've made that
• 22:45
  maybe people doubted at the beginning?
• 22:47
  There's been a few that I've been sort of involved in that
• 22:49
  down the years. I think one thing that I'm quite
• 22:52
  excited about at the moment it's it's something that's kind of
• 22:55
  weird. We're spearheading at First
• 22:57
  Source at the moment and it's it's a brand move around what
• 23:00
  we're calling or the tagline is UN BPO and it's essentially a
• 23:04
  sort of a transformative shift away from traditional
• 23:07
  outsourcing models. So it's a bit of a yeah, a bit
• 23:10
  of a deviation from from where we've previously been.
• 23:14
  And it's all about embracing the power of digital innovation to
• 23:17
  being what we call an inch wide and a mile deep in terms of that
• 23:20
  that really deep domain expertise and fostering kind of
• 23:24
  collaboration over over silos. It's still relatively early days
• 23:29
  in terms of the roll out of on BPO.
• 23:32
  The early signs in terms of the response from both our clients
• 23:35
  and and analysts has been really quite promising.
• 23:38
  And I think the reason I mention it is, I think it's, it is a
• 23:41
  bold, bold move for a BPO organization.
• 23:44
  And yeah, it kind of reflects the mindset within the company
• 23:46
  to to sort of think a little bit differently and potentially
• 23:49
  upset the apple cart a little bit.
• 23:51
  Yeah, I think it's important, right There's it's too easy to
• 23:54
  say me too and just go along with what everyone else helps.
• 23:58
  And if that is the case, you end up all being bucketed in the
• 24:01
  same, you'll do the same thing in the same way.
• 24:03
  And it ends up becoming, whether we like it or not, you get into
• 24:06
  that price war of who can be the cheapest.
• 24:09
  And there's, I think similar to yourself.
• 24:11
  There's differences between what your business does and your
• 24:15
  competitors do. And you need to be able to, you
• 24:18
  know, explain and enhance those differences.
• 24:21
  Otherwise, as I say, you just get bucketed into into a Dutch
• 24:24
  auction which none of us want to be in.
• 24:26
  Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
• 24:28
  So you mentioned AI. Just out of interest, do you use
• 24:31
  it day-to-day? Is there a particular example
• 24:33
  you could share with us where it helps?
• 24:35
  Yeah, I do. I didn't used to, but it is a
• 24:38
  big focus at the moment. And I wouldn't say I was
• 24:41
  skeptical. Perhaps I was when I started
• 24:43
  out, maybe in my earlier career, but I I'm a big advocate now.
• 24:49
  I use it, you know, for everything from sort of very
• 24:52
  basic tasks like drafting social posts.
• 24:55
  Not that I do a huge amount of that, but you know, that's an
• 24:58
  example. Recently I used it for creating
• 25:02
  sort of like a campaign update, so refreshing an existing
• 25:05
  campaign that I've been working on to explore new messaging
• 25:09
  themes and explore new sort of a wider target audience.
• 25:13
  And I was honestly amazed at what I got back.
• 25:17
  The detail and the relevance of what what I received was really
• 25:21
  quite astonishing. And I, I ran it past my sales
• 25:26
  stakeholder who I'm working with on this particular campaign and
• 25:29
  I presented it to him and I didn't take credit.
• 25:32
  I told him up front that it was the result of AI.
• 25:36
  But obviously I'd, you know, I'd spelled out exactly what I
• 25:39
  wanted. I'd listed all the relevant
• 25:41
  prompts and he was equally just amazed And he, he wants to run
• 25:45
  with it. I mean, he's got a few comments
• 25:47
  to make on some of the points, but yeah, he more or less thinks
• 25:50
  it's good, good to go. So yeah, I mean that that's a
• 25:53
  recent example, but I am using it more and more and I think,
• 25:57
  yeah, the sort of the, the opportunities are just quite
• 25:59
  staggering really. So yeah, I would fully, fully
• 26:02
  recommend. Yeah, I was at an event a couple
• 26:04
  of weeks ago and I spoke to a founder and I said, you know,
• 26:06
  just give me your elevator pitch.
• 26:09
  And it was amazing. And I said, well, that's one of
• 26:11
  the best pictures I've ever had. He said, yeah, I take no credit.
• 26:13
  It was all done on AI. So it worked.
• 26:16
  It works. And if it works, why not use it?
• 26:18
  That's what I think. Yeah, it's amazing.
• 26:20
  So you're kind of like someone who probably consumes lots of
• 26:23
  content. Is there a particular book, A
• 26:26
  blog, podcast, newsletter, or anything like that that you'd
• 26:28
  recommend to our listeners? I subscribe to Seth Godin's
• 26:34
  daily blog, which I think probably a lot of people do and
• 26:38
  I'm a big fan. It's it's, it's really
• 26:40
  snackable, really thought provoking.
• 26:43
  There's another blog guy called Neil Patel whose blog I find
• 26:47
  really useful when I'm looking for ideas, sort of tips to
• 26:50
  enhance things like SEO and just other kind of general digital
• 26:54
  marketing advice. A book that I, that I can
• 26:58
  recommend is actually written by the founder of my former
• 27:03
  employer. It's a book called Powerful B2B
• 27:06
  Content. And it was written by Gay, a
• 27:08
  lady called Gay Flashman, who was the say, the founder CEO of
• 27:12
  my my former former company. And there's just loads of really
• 27:16
  good advice in there for anyone interested in kind of getting
• 27:20
  started with content marketing. So yeah.
• 27:23
  Excellent. Well, I'm sure people listening
• 27:25
  will be will be checking those out.
• 27:26
  So thank you for that. You've been a really good guest
• 27:28
  Callum. So I'm going to be cheeky here
• 27:30
  and ask, have you got any inspirational people in B2B that
• 27:34
  you think we should invite to the show in the future?
• 27:37
  Oh, it's a tough, it's a toughy. So the two people that I
• 27:41
  mentioned gay would be really engaging.
• 27:44
  I think she'd have a lot, a lot of really good stuff to say
• 27:47
  about, you know, her story on on content marketing and where
• 27:50
  she's kind of taking it. Neil likewise would probably be
• 27:54
  someone that would be, would be, I'd certainly be interested in
• 27:57
  hearing from. Without wanting to sound like a
• 27:59
  suck up, our CMO is a guy called Aniket Mendaka.
• 28:04
  And he, he's kind of been the spearhead for, for what we're
• 28:08
  doing in terms of AI within, within marketing here at First
• 28:12
  source. He's got some really interesting
• 28:14
  perspectives on how how we can use it and kind of what the
• 28:16
  future holds. So yeah, he would probably be
• 28:19
  someone that would be interesting to to hear from for
• 28:22
  for sure. Excellent.
• 28:24
  Well, I don't think we've had any of them on the show.
• 28:26
  So look out for them in the future.
• 28:28
  Hopefully we'll we'll get them on as as guests going forward.
• 28:31
  That's great. This has been really informative
• 28:33
  and we've dug into quite a bit of stuff.
• 28:35
  But if there's any listeners that want you know more detail
• 28:38
  or further questions, how would you recommend people get in
• 28:41
  touch to you after the podcast? So I'm on LinkedIn like like
• 28:45
  everyone. So yeah, I guess that would
• 28:46
  probably be the best way to to reach out if anyone anyone was
• 28:49
  interested. Awesome, excellent.
• 28:51
  Well, Karen, it's been a really informative, useful session and
• 28:55
  I think we've probably only scratched the surface.
• 28:57
  We could definitely get a follow up session, one around the
• 28:59
  content, but also around your journalist background.
• 29:02
  I saw you got some great stories we can share.
• 29:05
  But for now, thanks for your time and everyone you're
• 29:07
  listening. Thank you for for taking the
• 29:09
  time to to listen to this. There's plenty more episodes.
• 29:12
  I think they're coming up for 600 now in total, so please
• 29:15
  check them out. And in the meantime, thanks
• 29:17
  everyone for listening. Thanks again, Callum, for
• 29:19
  joining. Until the next time, Cheerio.
• 29:21
  Thank you. Thanks for joining us for On
• 29:24
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• 29:26
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• 29:30
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• 29:33
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• 29:39
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