Latest / Free Therapy with Ben & Kevin / How to perform better in bed, from a sex expert #14

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How to perform better in bed, from a sex expert #14 · Free Therapy with Ben & Kevin

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The Orleys Free Therapy. Hello.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: Hello, I'm Ben and I'm Kevin.
• 0:04
  Speaker 3: And each week Ben and I sit down with different
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: therapists and experts to talk about the stuff that most
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: guys are thinking about but nobody says out loud. And
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: this week we brought on Rachel Overvall, who's a sex
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: expert trained at Dickensey Institute. And this episode was so
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: off the rails, it was so much fun. She answered
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: all the questions that every guy wants to know about
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: sex and what's really going on in women's minds, and
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: she didn't hold back at all.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: She told us women's biggest complaints about men in the bedroom,
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: the most attractive qualities in men for women, and really
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: just how to have more pleasurable sex.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: If you have ever wondered whether you're doing it right
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: or you just want to get better in the bedroom,
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: this is the episode for you. Let's get into it.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Rachel, Welcome to Free Therapy.
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: Thanks, I'm excited to be here.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: We are so happy to have you so. Rachel is
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: a certified expert on sex and intimacy, has been doing
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: the research for years now works with a lot of
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: different kinds of patients, mostly guys we were talking about
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: as well, But I would love for you guys to
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: share with the audience more about your background.
• 1:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so I'm a sexologist. My educational background, I have
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: a couple mixes. So I'm an ASEX certified sex educator.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: That's a national.
• 1:41
  Speaker 5: Board that took about eight years of work in training
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: and supervision, so that was probably a big chunk of it.
• 1:50
  Speaker 5: I have a master's certificate from the Kinsey Institute and
• 1:53
  Speaker 5: Human Sexuality and Gender Studies, and then I mix like
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: therapeutic work into that, so I have Level three certified
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: and internal family system so I bring a lot of
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: ifs into my work, and then also sematic therapy. I'm
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: certified and trained in somatic therapy.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: We love ifs, Yeah, we do.
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: It's amazing.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: On the first episode you recorded a good episode, blew
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: my mind because I've been in therapy for years, but
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: like parts work is a whole different thing. Yeah, it
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: takes you so much deeper. And then somatic work too.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: My new therapist is a sematic therapist and she's been amazing.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: So excited to have you here.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for being here.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: So a few episodes ago, we did an episode where
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Kevin and I answered the questions that most guys would
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: lie about, so right, I.
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: Can only imagine I'm so interested, Yeah, and I.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Would love for I mean, honestly, we'll send you right
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: after this. But it's good that you haven't heard it
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: because a lot of the things that we talked about
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: in that episode so backstory that our producer was like,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: you guys are so vulnerable, you should start to answer
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: some questions that you think guys would lie about, things
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: that you have talked about, you know, one on one.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: And there were a ton of questions, but the one
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: that really sparked some energy around me and keV was
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: how often are you embarrassed by your performance in bed?
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: And honestly, like, it's been a lot. And Kevi and
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I have always had this friendship where we just kind
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: of go deep on a lot of topics. And that
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: was one thing we talked about early on ten years ago,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: whether it was like not getting hard e wrecked, ou dysfunction,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: or not performing the way you want to perform. And
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: we in those conversations realize that it was so.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Normal, especially when you're dating, right, so, like when you're
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: not in a relationship and you're just like you're going
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: on dates, meeting new people. I feel like that goes
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: through the roof that those the anxiety and all that
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: kind of stuff. And then the more we talk with
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: guys on the street about this kind of stuff, like
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: we're just we go on the street and ask questions
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: different questions, and you just realize how universal this experience is,
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: and no one talks about it because everyone's just watching
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: porn and going that doesn't exist.
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: I'm the only one, totally.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: I think so many men feel like they're the only one.
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: I've so many men that come into my office and
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: they're like, I've never told anyone about this, or I've
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: never talked about it, and total different age ranges across
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: the spectrum. And I love that you guys are talking
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: about it because that's so healthy and normalizing of this,
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: Like this is something everyone is going to have sexual
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: anxiety in their life. No one gets out of this
• 4:24
  Speaker 5: lifetime without having some type of performance anxiety.
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: It's normal.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: What have you learned about like men, performance anxiety and
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: intimacy as a whole in your practice.
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: That's a good question.
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: I'd say the biggest thing is so I'm dealing with
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: it often from the lens of somatics too, so like.
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: Nervous system regulation.
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: A lot of times when my clients have come to me,
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: they've already gone to the doctor, They've already like checked
• 4:48
  Speaker 5: their testosteroe, and they've they've done a lot of medical tests,
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: and they're in this place where they're like, what's wrong.
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: I'm either have premature ejaculation or coming faster than I
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: want to, or I'm having difficulty with a rec And
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: so often when we start talking about it, the thing
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: that comes up a lot is this idea of like
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: I have to show up in this certain aspect of
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: masculinity or manhood in order to be respected or loved
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: or to be seen as a valuable lover. And there's
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: a lot of tropes around masculinity that I think eat
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: into and like prey on a rectilist function and performance
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: anxiety as a whole. What kind of tropes tropes of
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: like sex is only great if I have a long,
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: hard erection, Like you can have great sex and not
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: have an erection, Like you can have great intimacy without
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: an erection.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: That doesn't sound like it makes sense.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I want you to know that, Okay, yeah, no, honestly, yeah, please, Okay.
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: So here's what I'll say is like sex is.
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: Expansive, and when we're in the place where we're in
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: heteronormative relationships, we don't really take time to think about
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: the expansiveness of sex. It's like penis in vagina, here
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: we go, right. But if you're a person with disabilities
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: or you're queer, like, you have a lot more responsibility
• 6:05
  Speaker 5: kind of to think about sex as expansive because maybe
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: you can't perform in those ways, or maybe that type
• 6:10
  Speaker 5: of sex is not sex you're interested in. And so
• 6:14
  Speaker 5: there are a lot of people having sex without erections
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: or without penetration, and they're having great sex. And so
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: a lot of the work I start to do with
• 6:22
  Speaker 5: my clients like decentering this idea that I have to
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: have an erection, have great sex, like I can have
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: like I can have pleasure, I can have intimacy, I
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: can have connection, my partner can have worgasms, I can
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: feel good, and you can have an incredible experience that
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: maybe doesn't have an erection.
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: Take away the pressure of it.
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: The whole goal is, like working with my clients is
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: the more we learn how to take away the pressure
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: of an erection or the necessity of it, and know
• 6:50
  Speaker 5: that I can still be valuable, loved, masculine, a great
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: lover in all these other realms of the way I
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: can show up sexually. Then you can have really great experiences.
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: And honestly, that's when you're going to have more erections,
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: when you can take away the pressure anyway, there's so
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: much pressure.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy. I feel like, and I talked to
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: a lot of friends about this, Like, it's the desire
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: to make sure your partner has a great experience and
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: your value so you're saying is really rooted in do
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: they have a great experience? And I think a lot
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: of guys too, does your partner have an orgasm? First
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: of all, I think when I talk to women about this,
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: they're like, that's not what you should base a successful
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: sexual encounter off of. Yeah, what's your take on that?
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: And like, what wisdom can you give guys who still
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: live in that.
• 7:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so I'll kind of speak to the first part
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: of that Esther Perell says, this often is like so
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: often men's desire and sex is around if they're female
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: in heteronormative relationships, right, their desire and sex is really
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: derived from making their female partners feel desired. Women's desire
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: and sex can sometimes be narcissistic, not in a negative way,
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: but in the way like women often desire sex by
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: feeling like they're the object of someone's desire. And so
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: those are some dynamics coming into play.
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: But with men and women, what I talk about often.
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: Is that sex is successful if there's pleasure involved, Like
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: that is great sex? Did you have a pleasurable experience?
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: Really decentering this idea of orgasm and also decentering this
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: idea of like we're going up this escalator, right, what if,
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: like we have great sex, we just like rub bodies
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: and make out and we have so much fun and
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: we can't wait to do it again.
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: That sounds awesome obviously.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: First of all, I like to just say this because
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: we're two guys in Head our Omber of relationships. This
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: well pretty much talk about on the show, like we're
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: not going to speak to the other one. So everything
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: we say, well, just assume is for head our omber relationships.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: If you're in a dynamic like that, let's say, let's
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: got really specific, like you're in a relationship where you
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: feel like there is this transactional aspect of sex. You're
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: gonna do the things as my as my man, who's
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: gonna da da da da, And the man is going
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: you're gonna do things as the woman in the relationship
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: that's da da da, and then we have sex. Yeah,
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: how do you shift that? How do you change that agreement?
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: That the implicit agreement that you've made.
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: Oh wow, so this is like going to be different
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: for everyone. This is a big.
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: Part that I think gets missed in the hot topics
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: around sex or like the TikTok clips that we see,
• 9:26
  Speaker 5: because people forget and don't want to talk about nuance
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: when our relationships are incredibly nuanced and our.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: Sex lives are all really nuanced.
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: Like, so I can give you a couple of ideas,
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: and there might be really different ones for different people,
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: but I would say in that case, really talking about
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: like what do we want our sex life to be?
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: Like a question I ask clients often is like if
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: I waved a magic wand and everything was different tomorrow
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: and it was exactly how you wanted it, what.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: Would it look like?
• 9:54
  Speaker 5: And it can be fantasy, like, it doesn't have to
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: be based in reality.
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: It can be like I would.
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: Want to feel free, and I'd want to feel like
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: we can have sex or have intimacy without doing the
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: to do list, or that we can have that experience
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: without feeling like, oh, it's been a week, we need
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: to do this right without that pressure too.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great and maybe even you know, we were
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: talking about this in an episode recorder the other day.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: The things you need to communicate in a relationship first,
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: journaling about it, love, not trying to have that hard
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: conversation for the first time with your partner. Yeah, talk
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: to with therapists about it, journal about it first, actually
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: process what things you care about, the things you need,
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: your own fantasy, what you want, and then bring it
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: to your partner. Yeah, and maybe don't expect them to
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: have an answer right away either. Maybe they need to
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: go think about it a little bit and come back
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: totally when you have a client come in.
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: You mentioned earlier that your clients are mostly actually guys
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: who are dating, not in relationships, which I thought was
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: really interesting, but it actually makes sense now because they're
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: the ones that are often dealing with a lot of
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: these problems like the ude and the performance as aet
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: how do you walk them through over like a journey
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: of weeks months to not see sex in that way.
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: Well, say, first, there can be a lot of resistance
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: that comes up when I start talking about sex as
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: an experience of pleasure and not an experience of performance.
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: So I'll tackle the resistance often first. Even what I
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: said earlier of like sex can be great with that
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: an direction. A lot of times I'll say that they're
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: like whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't know if I buy
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: into that right, try to accept that totally, because it's
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: going against all of the socialization and scripts we've been
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: fed about sex.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: And if you're watching porn all the time, you're told
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: that if you're a rock hard, like that's attractive or
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: that's what's normal, and what you're saying is actually interesting.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: And there's a lot of shame in the opposite.
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: Totally think I'm shame.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Think of all those companies that have made just millions
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: of dollars by just shaming you.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: For not getting hard.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Totally and okay, also but for interesting, but shaming you
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: for not being hard, but also for making you feel
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: less shame if you are not able to get hard
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: because you're in your head and maybe you're helping you
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: get over the hump of anxiety, right, because I think
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: and I have a lot of friends like this, and
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: I won't say any names, but like we talk and
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: like those first couple of times are nerve wrecking, and
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: so a little blue cheo or a little hymn or
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: a little pill just gets you over the hump, gets
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: you familiar with your partner, and then four or five
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: times later, you know you're in known territory now and
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: it's okay.
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, And I'm I'm not anti any type of
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: like erectile dysfunctioned medicine, like do what you need.
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: To do for your body and whatever.
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: And I trust that my clients know what's best for
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: them with the next step to working out with the
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: resistance and then working into the somatic skills.
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: And maybe you use some of this with your therapist, Kevin.
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: But in order to get out of our anxious mind,
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: we have to tap into our body. So our brain
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: is going to tell us stories. If I don't get
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: an erection right now, she'll never want to see me again,
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: or she'll tell our friends, and then I'll be embarrassed, right,
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: and maybe we have similar friends, and then everyone will
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: know I can't get an direction. So all those stories
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: that come up, your brain's telling you this, and then
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: your body is going to have a reaction to that.
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: So what I'll do is work a lot on how
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: to connect with your body, doing a lot of mindfulness
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: and somatic practices. What is my body actually experience and sensing.
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: The more I'm connecting to my sensations in my body,
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: the more I'm not thinking about my brain. And like
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: think about two of a maybe you guys can answer
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: this of like the greatest sex you've ever had?
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: Have you been thinking in your mind?
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: No?
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like when you're so deep in your body
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: that it's like, I don't know what's happening.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: I'm just like following flowing.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: How if a guy has ed and you're asking him
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: to be present and he's so nervous because you know,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: sex is a big part of like relationships and a
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: lot of women and I think guys too will value
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: their relationship based off how good the sex is. And
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: so here you are about to go into a relationship
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: and you're like you got to be present, You got
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: to be present. What's like like, as a guy, I'm
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: thinking a million things before being my body. Yeah, I'm
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: thinking what is she like?
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: What is she not?
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Like? Should I ask her? Should should I not ask her?
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Should I be like confident? Should I be aggressive?
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Should I chill back?
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Should I do I?
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Then the lights start playing music? Do I you know
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: after dinner, before dinner, like the list, You're you're puzzling
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: the outcome before you even get in the bedroom totally,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: so you know what I mean, Like what what do
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: you what?
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: What you're supposed to do?
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: Well, I mean do you like talking to your partners,
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: like even thinking about your girlfriend or your or people before?
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: Like do you like talking about it at a time
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: or do you not?
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: I think generally when I'm in a relationship, I'm totally
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: down open communication. I'm talking about the before. Yeah, I'm
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: talking about the dating that when you're about to start
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: into like the first six weeks, Like that period I
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: think is where all that stuff comes.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: In, especially when like in your twenties and it's like
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: you haven't had the experience us to have the confidence
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: to be like I know, I'm good and I can
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: be like calm and communicate here, but like in your twenties,
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: when something like that happens.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: You freak the fuck out totally.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: Like one thing I'll say, and I would love you
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: to expand on this. When I was in my early twenties,
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: someone recommended the book She Comes First, which was a
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: life changer because for someone who has that anxiety when
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: you don't you want to make sure you're the person
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: you're with is happy and that stress.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Explain the book I will yeah, yeah, okay.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when all that comes up and you want to
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: make sure you're pleasuring your partner and you feel like
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: you're not doing it enough. The book, which is it's
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: essentially a two hundred and fifty page.
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: Textbook, explicit guide explicit god, yeah, literally pictures on how
• 15:57
  Speaker 6: to pleasure a woman by going down on her and
• 16:00
  Speaker 6: it's it just it.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: It's like anything. Imagine you like show up for your
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: fucking math test and you haven't read the book on math,
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: Like you haven't read the textbook, you're gonna fail and
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: this is the class.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah exactly, And.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: I think that's important. Like I share it with as
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: many people as I can, Yeah, because if it stresses
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: you out, spend some time actually learning.
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: And like there's this is such a lie to like
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: if I love someone, the sex will be great, or
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: if from attracted to someone, the sex will be great.
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: That's not true, Like sex is a skill, just like
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: anything else, Like you said the math test, Like it's
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: a skill.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: And how are you, like, you're a man, how are
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: you supposed to know a woman's body?
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: You have totally ask questions.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: You have to read.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: I'm a guy, I'm just a man.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I know how to do your stuff, because I mean,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: you can't just like stink your dick somewhere and think
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: it's going to be amazing, like you have.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: To like you can. It doesn't go well normally.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Exactly, it doesn't go well. And I think Kevin told
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: me to read the book, like it must have been
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: ten years ago. Now I've told people and it now
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh, but when I was fourteen or fifteen,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: there wasn't even a notion of you should read a
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: book and learn how to do it, of.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: Course, not even in high school or call it you're
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: just like you're not thinking about that.
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: I would say, it's.
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: Like I would tie that back to the negative scripts
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: around masculinity. Right, if I'm a man, I should know
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: exactly how this works, and I should also have the
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: full puzzle picked out.
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: I should know that I'm supposed to be dominant.
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: I'm supposed to have this music playing, I'm supposed to
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: have the lights at this level. Like, there's a lot
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: of expectations around masculinity that are put on yourself around
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: I have to be a sexual expert because I'm a
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: man without any education.
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's wild.
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: There's no other aspect of our life. We're expected to
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: be experts with no education.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: It's crazy, it's insane, it's so true.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: And to think that a guy is crazy, Like you
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: see all this shit online where a guy just assumes
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: I know what women want. Women want this because I'm
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: the thing on a manuscat bullshit, Right, They're just like
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: so confident in what they think of woman wants and
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: it's like opposite, and that's unattractive assuming that you know,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: it's more from what I've learned, it's more attractive to
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: learn to ask to do the things that you know
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: bring the intimacy closer.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love thinking about like what is the anti manosphere? Yeah,
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: like to be like, okay, let me read a book
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: about women's one hundred percent of.
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: Those men are reading books. That's definitely anti minister.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let me ask the person I'm with what really
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: turns turns you on? What do you love? What is
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: pleasure for you? Is it just like to your point,
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: is it just sex? Or is there more? What else
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: can we do?
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: What else?
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: Keep going? What would be anti manosphere in the world of.
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: Sex and in the world I mean, I'd say taking
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: your time would be. I think so often like people
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: are rushing when it comes to sex. In one of
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: the things they tell clients is that like four, play
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: starts at the end of our last sexual experience and
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: goes to our next one, and everything in between is
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: for play.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: So when I say like slow.
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: I mean thinking about everything every time we're flirting or touching,
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: and it's like stoking that fire for sex to be
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: accessible and desired.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: In the next time.
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: So slowing down good and also anti manosphere would be
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: focusing on the experience of sex as a whole instead
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: of the experience of domination. I think that a lot
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: of times the manosphere is so concerned with domination and subjugation,
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: and so if we go into sex without that idea
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: of domination, of dominating this person, Like even the language
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: we talk about sex in and outside of the manosphere
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: is like I fucked her, I gave it to her,
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: Like there's so much domination.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: In that and instead of having that.
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: Domination, having a collaborative experience, like sex should be a
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: place where there's democracy. Maybe that looks like playing in
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: realms like sub and domb, but you're doing it from
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: a consent based perspective and you're doing it and you're
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: talking about it like sex requires democracy. Great sex does, keV?
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: What do you think? What else do you think from
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, I be interested to ask you, Kevin and
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: I watched the Managtry documentary like six months ago and
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: we really enjoyed just like taking it in. But we
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: also I haven't even asked you what in your opinion,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: what would be the anti like obviously read something I
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: just shared.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: Reading the book for sure is educating learning, definitely asking questions.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: One thing is like after a sexual experience, after intimacy,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: not right after, but after with a partner, to have
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: a conversation about it.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: And I love that.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: What did you love that's attractive?
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: What? What? What? What else do you what? What else
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: would you really enjoy? Like that kind of thing? I
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: used to like you when I was younger, just do
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: it right after because.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Because of insecurity and sometimes I was like, do not
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: do that well?
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: I was just like insecure, you know. It was like me,
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: it's like a twenty, like a young twenty to like you.
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: Know, that tender part of you.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Though.
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: That was like that's really ten wanting.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: To you know again it but it comes back to
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: wanting to be good at it.
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, It's like that authentic expression of yourself is so hot.
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: Like I had this sexual.
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: Experience with this person the sky once and I'm not
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: personally like not not yucking anyone's ye, I'm not personally
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: turned on by someone like licking my toes or my feet.
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: I feel about it. It doesn't really do negative or
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: positive things. This guy just paused and went to town
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: on my feet. And I was like, this is the
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: hottest thing ever.
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: Because he was so into it.
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: He loved it, he loved it, and he was so
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: present and just like fully being himself. And I was like,
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: this is so hot because you're being so yourself right
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: now and you're being really vulnerable and like and you
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: like his eyes are closed, he is into it, and
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: I'm like, this is hot because you're being yourself.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: That's a great example.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm loving the companies.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Much. Okay, so.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: You mind, I have one? Oh sorry, I do.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I really want to ask the first one on this page.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: I was about to have the same questions one what
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: are women's biggest complaints about men in.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: I was literally just talking to my friend about this
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: at lunch. So the first one was the jackhammer.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: We were like, what you're doing?
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, just so like fast hard, like you're bruising my
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: pelvic belt and this doesn't feel good.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: It's it's not a weight room.
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, literally body. Sometimes it can be fun for like
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: a little bit, but that the sex, that is just that.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I have a lot just that.
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I've had experience. I think most women have.
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: For my clients and my girlfriends, So we talk about this.
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: That's a big complaint.
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: It's like the jackhammer.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Men don't jackhammer?
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: I think another one, you know, talking about performance anxiety.
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: My girlfriends and I have talked about this a lot
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: of like if someone has performance anxiety and they.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: Like get really weird about it, that.
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: Can be a turn off of like hey, can we
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: just like keep making out or like can we just
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: keep the experience going even though you don't have an direction,
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: because then what we'll talk about is like you, as
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: a woman, then feel like you have to nurture and
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: comfort this person. And it's like I don't really want
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: to nurture and comfort you. I want you to be
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: okay and has to be okay, and maybe like keep
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: playing in other ways, So that's one.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: What advice would you give to a guy, yeah, who
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: experiences before performance anxiety in the bedroom? Yeah, and like.
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: Lose his direction, keep going, keep playing, like keep making
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: out touch each other?
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: Do you address it? Does a woman get self conscious
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: when that happens?
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Does she read?
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: Do women read into it and make it about them?
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: I think sometimes?
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So what can you say?
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: First?
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: Would you say something to the person?
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: I would say, wait until the experience is over, like
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: to say something yeah kind of interesting, wait until the
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: end of the experience because like maybe you get your
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: erection back, maybe like you don't know what's going to happen.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: But would you not say something like it's not about
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: you like in the moment.
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: I think, like what feels authentic to you is what
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: I would say, Like I'm more of a sexual recap
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: at the end. Person, But some people like to give
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: feedback in the moment, so you could you can say like, hey,
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: sometimes this happens, like what else do you want to do?
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: Great? Yeah, and then you just continue yeah yeah, or.
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: Like can I go down on you? Or can I
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: finger you? Or can I touch you? Or do you
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: want to make out? Or do you want to go
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: take a shot together?
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: The guy gets so in their head because it's if
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: they don't have the outcome or if it's all about them,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: and guys are so selfish in that way, whereas like
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: I've had you know, I've heard from women we were
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: talking to someone e men yesterday, or it's like you know,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: even or gays are being different for every woman. So
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: for you to be in your own experience about your
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: ability to perform, you don't even know what your partner's
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: experience is like. So you can still play and do
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: other things and not have in your action and still
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: have a good sexual experience because there's only one outcome
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: that guys think of. Yeah, and it's like that's just
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: not the only outcome.
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: It's not it's not at all, And like you can
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: have so much more fun and like relaxation if you're
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: just playing you know. I one time I had an
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: experience with this guy and we were making out for like,
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: I don't know, a couple hours and naked.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: It was super hot and fun and he couldn't get
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: an direction.
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: And it was it's like still one of the best
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: sexual memories of my life because we had so much
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: fun and he didn't stop, he didn't like, he wasn't
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: self conscious, like it was like a great experience of
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: connection and the erection wasn't there and it was fun,
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: like such an important.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Thing for guys to yeah, a fifteen years ago.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: What else? What other complaints?
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: Okay, the other complaint is when men are male partners,
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: make every touch about escalation. So I'm only touching you
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: if I want to have sex, or I'm only every
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: touch has to be about sex. So I'm gonna rub
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: your butt and I'm going to then try to put
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: a finger in it, or I'm going to I'm gonna
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: rub your back. I'm gonna rub your back and then
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna start missaging your breast. Like it's like every.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: Touch has this escalation.
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: It's like, just touch your partner for joy, for pleasure,
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: for connection, and don't escalate everything because what that does
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: to the other partner. It starts making their bodies hyper
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: vigilant of like I don't want you to touch me
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: because I don't want this to escalate right now. So
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: then you start having chasms in your physical intimacy. So
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: having more moments of physical intimacy that do not escalate,
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: like make out, take a shower, give each other massages,
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: and don't always escalate it its sex, just be okay
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: having the intimacy totally. What do you guys think about that?
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: That one can have cop feedback sometimes when I say it.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that. It's something that I had to
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: learn because I think I was doing that. Yeah, And
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: it's interesting because I think I was doing it from
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: a couple of different places. I was doing it from
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: a place of, Okay, I'm turned on and I want
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: to hook up. But also I would do it from
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: a place of it was like I was looking for
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: some sort of like validation in that relationship. You like me,
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: you want me, you like me, you want me. So
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: I was trying to get that validation from the intimacy
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: and the sex, and so that's when the touch returned
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: to that. And I mean, this is like in a
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: relationship years ago and finally learn the lesson that, like,
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: I need to stop looking for that foundation all the
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: time she's in a relationship with me, she's choosing me.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: What am I trying to prove to myself that she
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: wants me for?
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: And like how much pressure that puts on the other
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: person to feel responsible for your self confidence?
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Too?
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Right, it's not her job.
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: And going back to what I said earlier of like
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: everything in between his four play, the more you're having
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: touched that does not escalate. The more you're also like
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: having foreplay that for when you are ready to have sex,
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: You're both going to have desire there. It's not going
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: to be like Friday night you come home from a
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: long week at work and you're like, hey, you want
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: to have sex and they're like, no, I.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: Can't even think about that right now.
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: Because of all these things, you have more memories stored
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: in your body of the whole week of points of arousal.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, do you have more complaints that you hear from girlfriends?
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: I think I love this question.
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: You know, how about all say the complaints that men
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: think women have? Because I think that's interesting. Yeah, Yeah,
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: for sure, men think women complain about penis size all
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: the time. Like, my male clients are always concerned about
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: their penis size. And I've never once had a female
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: client or our girlfriend talk to me in a negative
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: way about.
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: Someone's penis size.
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: Wow. Ever, oh no, they've said like, oh, he had
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: a small penis. But it's like a passing comment and it's.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Not like it affected the experience.
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: Right, They'll be like he had a big penis, But
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: I never hear anyone talk about the effect it has
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: on their sexual experience. It's like a passing comment, like
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: she had big boobs or small boobs, Like okay, yeah,
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: that's Men are always worried about that. They're worried about
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: off it or they think that women will be upset
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: if they can't last a long time. Yeah, but I
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: think that that the issue that is, like they're having sex,
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: maybe the men's having the man is having an orgasm,
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: and then the woman isn't, And then that's the complaint,
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: is that the sex ended because the man had the orgasm. Right,
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: The complaint is not really the length of sex, it's
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: that it ended before the woman had option or had pleasure, right.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, if sex isn't just about penetration. Yeah, and
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: it continues after the male orgas she's happy.
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah right, Yeah, So those are definitely things that men
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: come up against. You know, there's my clients, even though
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: most are not in the manosphere, sometimes I do get
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: clients that are consuming that content because it's so pushed.
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: For the algorithm. But there's things like the sixth they have.
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: Do you have clients that are like I have to
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: be six to one in order for a woman to
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: be attracted to me, or I have to have this
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: much money.
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, I have no idea. We don't care
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: about that.
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: And so I think that those are other like expectations
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: men think women want insects that.
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: We don't care about.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: Do you guys have fears too that you're thinking of
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: We're asking a lot of.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: About Yeah, I mean look before I mean I have
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, how honest do I need to get? But
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: like you know, in my between twenty five and thirty
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: and I was single and I was looking for a
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: relationship and I would either get rejected at a bar,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: or I would get a girl's number, or we'd have
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: a sexual or whatever the outcome was. I was single, Yeah, right,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: and I made up every excuse in the book for
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: why I wasn't it wasn't working out for me. And
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: the list is as long as you could think because
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: you read so much and you watch so much and
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: you hear you're like, oh, it has to be one
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: of these, But it was really just it wasn't any
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: of that. It was just a timing or it was
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: like a something out of my control. But you think, oh,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: if I would have made a move, if I would
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: have asked for her number, if I would have been
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: more aggressive, I could have taken her home. If I
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: would have, you know, had more money, I could have
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: paid for this. If I wore better clothes, if I
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: smelt better, if I went out with this person instead,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: and they were a better wing man, like the list
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: goes on, right, But at the end of the day,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: like for me, it just came down to like a
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: little bit of lack of self worth, a little bit
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: of insecurity and youth and immaturity. And you know, I
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: look back at that time and I'm like, well, that
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: was fucked up and normal and it happened to everybody,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: and so I think it's just like not blaming yourself
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: for your body, right, do you when you find your partner.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: And I know this now, and I think it's obvious
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: as you get older, they're gonna love every interview, whether
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: it's two or ten. Yeah, you know what I mean, Yeah,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: every interview. Yeah, And I mean that in the most
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: honest way. And I think that, like it's important for
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: a guy just to like take a deep breath and
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: be like, you know what, Like, there's eight billion people
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: in the world. Everyone has different sexual desires and everybody
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: has different needs. And I will find someone that likes
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: what I can offer and what they can offer me.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: It isn't just what I see online, isn't just what
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: I'm reading. There are so many different experiences. And you know,
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: when you talk to your friend on the phone, there's
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: a good chance they're not being honest about their sexual
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: experience to you. Right, how is your not?
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Oh dude, we looked up it was amazing.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: And then you're like you don't fucking know. Yeah, you
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: get in your head because you hear something, So just
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: like a little bit of take a step back, let
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: them in a little great assault time heals everything. I
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: love that, That's what I think.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what do women wish that men knew? In the bedroom,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: but would never say all out.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: That's a good question.
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: Wow, what do that men knew that most women don't
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: have orgasms from penetration. That's one, it's only it's less
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: than thirty percent of women have orgasms from penetration. Yeah,
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: so I think that's one.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: So to actually explore other avenues and.
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: Explore other avenues of orgasm or if like you're the
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: woman's not having an orgasm from penetration, like play in
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: other realms and talk about it.
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: That's probably a big one.
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: I think that they wish that men knew how to
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: be desiring without consumption, like how to desire someone and
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: making them feel like they're the object of desire, not
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: something that they want to consume, Like I want to
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: be I want someone to desire me so much, but
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: I do not want to feel like a product that
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: someone is trying to consume or buy.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: WHOA so nuanced and I get it?
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, for sure, that is incredibly nuanced.
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: Really Yeah, capture, I think super hard to capture, Like
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: I want to feel like you want to have sex
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: with me, not have sex with my body.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, can you give some examples of what a
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: guy would do that would make him feel make them
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: feel like the object. Oh, yeah, because that's I think
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: that's easier because I think the other way is a
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: little bit.
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: That would make a woman feel like the object. Yeah,
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: I think so much of it can too.
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: Just be like energetically, it feels like so much of
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: it is not the words spoken, but like I might
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: feel objectified if they're talking during sex in like really
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: vague ways, like vague dirty talk that's not directed towards me,
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: right of like you're so beautiful, you're so incredible, versus
• 34:56
  Speaker 5: like you're so hot, I.
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: Want to fuck you.
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: Right, sometimes I can be hot, but talking more directly.
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: Also, like the way that you.
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: Touch and look at someone like you are incredible versus
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: like I want to use your body. It's like so
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: much in the not said things and in the energetics
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: of it.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: I feel like, yes, so much of it is why
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: are you doing the thing?
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: Are you doing it because you want a connection and
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: you want to give pleasure and receive pleasure? Or are
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: you doing it because you feel empty inside? Ye, and
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: you feel like without getting this thing, you're not going
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: to be good enough, you know, worthy?
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: Like I have so many I work with a lot
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: of couples to it. I have so many men in
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: the couples one of our first sessions, second sessions, and
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: I can always tell who this man is because he's
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: going to tell me I love going down on my wife.
• 35:51
  Speaker 5: I love going down and he just talks, and he's
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: going to talk about it for five or ten minutes,
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: right and she's sitting there, and I can tell that
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: she doesn't like it because it's all about he loves
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: doing it because he loves the validation of it. He
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: doesn't love doing it because he loves her or your
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: body or her experience.
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: And I think that that's the difference of the.
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: Consumption value of it, like feeling like someone's doing this
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: because they love me my body, they want me to
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: feel good, versus like they want to extract from me,
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: like those men often are extracting from women instead of
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: giving too.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: I have a question, how does a guy show up
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: in a bedroom assertive, confident and polite and respecting a woman.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: What are the things you recommend today for a guy
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: to do. I've talked to friends younger who we've talked
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: about sometimes they really really want to ask for consent
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: in a lot of other areas, and sometimes the guys
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: don't like to kind of play it by ear. Some
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: girls have different preferences, But like, what would you advise
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: a client who's maybe like mid twenties trying to navigate
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: the wait. I don't want to do anything wrong, but
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: I still want to be, like, you know, confident attractive.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: I want to be respectful, and I also want to
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: be a confident man because that's what's attractive often to women.
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think confidence for everyone right is super attractive.
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: The first thing I would.
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: Say is what does confidence look like to you outside
• 37:38
  Speaker 5: of the scripts you've been taught?
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: Like do I.
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: Really want music on while I'm listening or while I'm
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: having sex? Or am I doing it because I think
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: that I should? What's the authentic thing that I want
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: in this experience? So getting really clear on what are
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: my personal sexual scripts outside of what I've been taught,
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: even if they're a little bit different, And that is
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: like the start of your confidence is self attunement and
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: being really connected to yourself. Some people really like when
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: people ask for consent and go slow and ask every
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: step of the way. Some people hate it, like that's
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: a personal preference inside of your relationship, and maybe that's
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: a good place to start of. Hey, do you like
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: when I ask you can I kiss you? Or can
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: I touch you? Or does that like kill your vibe?
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: How do you want to communicate around it? This is
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: the other thing I say, being so intimately connected to
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: your own pleasure. This advice is kind of a hot take,
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: but I think the best sex happens when both people
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: are Every party involved is being selfish in the way
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: that they're deeply connected to their own body and not
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: in anticipation of the other person. Like, I'm deeply connected
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: to how I feel right now and how I'm experiencing this.
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: I am not thinking the whole time, Oh my god?
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: Do you like this? Is this good? Are you having fun?
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: Are you like?
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: It's almost impossible? Yeah, if you're a look if I think,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: if you're a guy who's just like loving and caring
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: and you want to be, you know, a good partner,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: how are you not just focusing the whole time?
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: Totally Like the way I think about it, it's like
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: a tune to yourself first, and then you can attune
• 39:14
  Speaker 5: to your partner. But if I'm only a tuning to
• 39:16
  Speaker 5: my partner, I'm actually disconnected from myself. So if I'm
• 39:19
  Speaker 5: only thinking about how are they experiencing it, how are
• 39:22
  Speaker 5: they liking it?
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: Is this good? Do I look? Okay?
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: Am I making the right way? All the things that
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: come up?
• 39:28
  Speaker 5: Then I'm not actually a tuning to my own experience.
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: So a tune to yourself first, and then you can
• 39:33
  Speaker 5: attune to your partner.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: So it's a both.
• 39:35
  Speaker 5: And not to ignore the pleasure of the other person
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: of course. Yeah, and it's challenging, but it goes back
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: to like that presence and the sensation. So I have
• 39:43
  Speaker 5: clients to start with, Like, when you're having solo sex,
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: I don't want you to focus on orgasm. Yeah, masturbation.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so interesting.
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: I like that, I say solo sex, Why less stigma
• 39:58
  Speaker 5: around it?
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Or like, yeah, calling masturbation solo sex expands your definition
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: of sex, which is what you were talking about in
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: the beginning.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: Sex is then not just in penetration, yeah, which is interesting.
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: Sex is pleasure. Sex is pleasure, which is your point
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: in the beginning of the episode. That's really interesting.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, cool, what the words meaning? Yeah?
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, well, and I'll even ask you guys, have
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: you ever had solo sex where you really just focus
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: on the sensation of your body, like what is my
• 40:25
  Speaker 5: body feeling right now? Not I'm like rushing to this
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: end goal of orgasm or climax, I'm just focusing like
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: what does my hand feel like? What is the temperature?
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: These are the things I go like, temperature, texture, and pressure.
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: Can you just focus on those three things in those sensations.
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: While you touch it?
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: Of what it could be yourself, Yeah, it could be
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: your penis or your hand or whatever you're using to
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: like what's the temperature of this, what's the texture of
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: my hand? My penis a toy? What's the pressure maybe?
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: And what happens if I use different types of pressure?
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: And so really slowing down with that experience with yourself
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: and at tuning to like what are my sensations in
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: this experience? More of practice solo sex where I'm deeply
• 41:07
  Speaker 5: attuned to my sensations, the easier it is to practice
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: and partner sex.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: Can you talk a little bit more about like how
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: porn has messed up sex culture? Yeah, I think a
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: lot of guys that we talked to it pretty directly
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: just leads to a feeling of inadequacy for most pot,
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: even if it's unconscious or subconscious or implicit. How has
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: it affected sex and culture as all?
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll say this versus like, I'm not anti porn.
• 41:35
  Speaker 5: I feel like neutral towards it. It's a media that's it. Like,
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: that's how I think about it. There can be harmful
• 41:43
  Speaker 5: poor and there can be exploitive porn. There can be
• 41:45
  Speaker 5: ethical porn. It's a source of media.
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: The thing that I see.
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: About porn often is the self judgment that comes from
• 41:53
  Speaker 5: my body doesn't look like that, or I don't perform
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: like that, or my penis isn't that big, or my
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: breast are that large. All of the self judgment that
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: comes that absolutely impacts the way you show up in
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: sex when you're in that comparison trap. Because porn is
• 42:09
  Speaker 5: such a taboo subject, we don't teach children or teenagers
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: to have media literacy when they're looking at porn, Like
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: we should have media literacy around this. Like porn is
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: fun to watch, it might be erotic, and also it's
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: not real, right, and so I think there needs to
• 42:26
  Speaker 5: be more media literacy around porn consumption overall.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say that exists around all media lives.
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: Talk about serial killar docs and even though you know
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: it's not like your life, you probably don't sleep that
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: night because you're watching something, or you sleep worse. But
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: porn is so direct and extreme, right totally, So if
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: a guy has watched on, you know their whole life
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: and which is their experience? Like are you telling them
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: to maybe stop or slow down or what are you
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: doing so that the porn stops bringing those feelings of
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: an act, say anxiety comparison.
• 43:02
  Speaker 5: I normally will ask them like what do they want
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: their relationship to porn with porn to be? Like like
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: do you want a relationship with porn in any way.
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: Or do you not?
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: And go from there. And also is porn impacting your life?
• 43:13
  Speaker 5: So is it impacting your ability to have a job
• 43:17
  Speaker 5: or go to work, or is it impacting your relationship
• 43:20
  Speaker 5: if you want to have sex or don't? Is it
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: impacting the way you view yourself? And is it impacting
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: any type of like community, Am I like not hanging
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: out with my friends because I want to stay home
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: and watch porn and get off? Like, so what's the
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: impact on this of this on your life? Is normally
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: the first thing.
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: I look at.
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: Oftentimes I find that people use porn because it is
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: a way for them to actually get out of their heads.
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: The effect after is normally the judgment and the criticism,
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: but while they're watching it often it's like, oh, I'm
• 43:51
  Speaker 5: out of my head or I can turn off my
• 43:53
  Speaker 5: brain thinking about work or my family or whatever, and
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: I can just focus on this. So working with them
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: to find more ways to turn their brain off. And
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: maybe it's different types of erotic content. Maybe it's porn,
• 44:05
  Speaker 5: different types of porn. I really like Dipsy. If you
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: guys heard of that, it's an audible erotica app and
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: it's short stories and actors.
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: It's voice actors.
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: Who So I like that audible. Yeah, so it's kind
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: of a departure from the visual media, but you're still
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: getting audio and erotica.
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: Interesting, Yeah, that makes sense.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Why not? keV? What's your what's your take on porn?
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: My take is that it fucks up most sexual dynamics
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: and intimacy. I like, I've watched porn. Yes, to me,
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: it I equate it to like binge watching a TV
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: show or binge eating. It's very difficult to moderate, and
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: I just think that it just affects me massively. To
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: your point, it's really easy. So you wanna sex and
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: you're like, okay, let me just turn on some porn
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: and like you don't have to think about it. But
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: like it's also like, if you want to have a meal,
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: it may be easier to just like grab the chips
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: that are in the pantry instead of like making a meal,
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: and then making a meal is going to be like
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: much more nutritious for you. And making a meal might
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: be like using your imagination or maybe some audible erotica.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: I haven't done that, but but just like that may
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: be actually like making your true healthy meal that actually
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: can still be the pessable experience, but without like the
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: to me, what it would be like you're hungry and
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: you just go to like ice cream and chips and
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: sweets every time you're hungry.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: I think I'm going to share, Please go ahead, Okay,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: this is what I think. I think that it is
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: obvious how big of a problem porn is for a
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: lot of people in this country, and I kind of
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: want to talk about it through that lens. Or I
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: think if you are a guy who is deciding to
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: not go out on a Friday night and then to
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: solo sex or masturbate instead, or you aren't going on
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: dating apps and then you are looking watching porn instead,
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: or you had a hard day at work, or you
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: got an argument and then instead of just sitting there,
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: you go and watch porn. Then I think it's like
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: any other addiction, and it is terrible for you. But
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: I also don't want people to feel like they can't
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: do it in moderation, like you said, if they like it.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: But I think it's important for guys to ask themselves
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: like why am I watching porn? And I think someone
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: gave me that advice like a bunch of years ago,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: and I've gone multiple years out without watching it because
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: I was like, cool, I need a break, or like
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: it's not healthy anymore, or I'm realizing the problem it's
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: having in my life. And I think people need to
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: ask themselves that question about porn, just like they would
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: ask themselves about eating something unhealthy, taking drugs, whatever other
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: advice they have, because I think this vice specifically can
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: harm you if you really want a relationship or if
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: you want to get more confident, Because if you're like
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: early twenties, late teens, and you have the Internet at
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: your exposure and you're watching porn. I'm pretty sure you're
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: gonna get a little depressed.
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like the digital age too. That's like wreaking
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: havoc on community and connection in so many ways.
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is so fascinating. I have loved this conversation
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: I have had.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: It's so interesting to me, even the way you talk
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: about things like releases, the charge that guys can feel,
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: how you're messaging it, which I can tell why you're
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: so good at your job, because I think that people
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: feel pressure. There's pressure. There's just pressure in society, for money,
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: for sex, for power, you fucking name it. There's just pressure.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: And for guys, it shows up when you don't get
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: the girl. I think it shows up in other places.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: And I think what you're saying just like kind of
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: like takes away the charge of the sexual experience.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: Rachel, thanks you for coming to the show.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: Where can everyone find you are taking new patients?
• 47:51
  Speaker 5: How can we I am taking new patients? I am
• 47:54
  Speaker 5: a Hawaii sexologist. That's my website, Hawaii Sexologist, And then
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: at Rachel over Fall on Instagram.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: Cool amazing new work with people virtually.
• 48:03
  Speaker 5: I work with people virtually all over the world, couples
• 48:06
  Speaker 5: and individuals and then I have in person on a
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: wahu too, so I do some in.
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: Person work if you're in Hawaii.
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: Amazing. Thank you, thank you, Hey, thanks for listening. We
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: appreciate you.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this episode and us embarrassing ourselves and
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: talking about our feelings, you are definitely going to like
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: and everything else.
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: Follow on on Instagram at free Therapy and we'll see
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: you next time.