Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Responsive ROMANCE!

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Responsive ROMANCE! · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

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  Hi everybody and welcome to the Doctor Psych Mom Show.
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  Today I'm going to talk about responsive romance, which is
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  akin to responsive desire, but something that I just made-up
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  right now and coined that term. We'll see how long I use it for.
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  And before we do that though, please do subscribe.
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  Most recent subscriber episode was on the importance of
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  compatibility and happy anniversary to me and my husband
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  and the next will be I don't know what, something or other
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  and I'll record that tomorrow. And I'd like to have a nice
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  backlog of these things to get through.
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  You know in case somehow I fall off a Cliff and can't do them
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  then there would it's kind of like when my middle child was
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  this is a bit of a tangent but when I got pregnant with my
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  second your milk dries up when you get pregnant.
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  So. But I had probably
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  unsurprisingly to you guys, a store of breast milk in the
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  freezer that lasted my first born months after I can no
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  longer nurse her and carried her out through the end of her first
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  year of life. So I like to have a backlog of
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  everything, whether it is breast milk 13 years ago or how many
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  years ago, probably 13 year, 12 years ago, or whether it is
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  podcasts that are waiting to come out Anyway, So what is
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  responsive desire? If you don't know by now, I
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  can't help you. I've been doing it for talking
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  about it for so long. But yet again, responsive desire
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  is when women are monogamous and they're no longer in the
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  honeymoon stage. They no longer really experience
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  spontaneous arousal, AKA being horny.
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  Instead, they need foreplay and touch in order to get excited.
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  It doesn't matter how hot you are.
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  It doesn't matter if you're their celebrity crush, if
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  they've married you. After 1 1/2 to three years of
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  the honeymoon stage post commitment, 1 1/2 to three years
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  post commitment, her hormones will change her body.
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  You know, tells her it's the same old guy to procreate with
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  and so she doesn't feel drunk on new love anymore.
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  That drunk on new love feeling is the biological equivalent of
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  crack and it is why people make babies and our species continues
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  so anyway. Same thing happens with romance
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  guys who, especially if they're more avoidant.
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  So all of this is more relevant for avoidant people.
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  So women who are avoidant crash out of the honeymoon stage into
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  basically sexlessness more often, and men who are avoidant
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  crash out of the honeymoon stage into zero romance more often
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  because both of those types of people have trouble with
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  intimacy. But in general, there's also a
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  main effect of honeymoon stage on romance.
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  Obviously the man is not doing as many romantic things later on
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  as he is when he's drunk on New Relationship energy.
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  It's just completely obvious he's not texting as much.
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  He's not obsessed with her. He doesn't think about her every
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  waking second. He doesn't think about, you
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  know, leaving his work meetings to, you know, get her flowers
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  before he comes home. He doesn't look at her and feel
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  obsessive. If he still does, he's
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  preoccupied attachment, right? And it's not really about her.
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  That's his attachment style. So the healthier thing is to
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  move into an attachment based relationship versus an obsession
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  based relationship where, yeah, you're happy to see your partner
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  at the end of the day, but it's not like the first week you ever
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  knew them. And this is, you know, used to
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  be considered commonsensical and so men stop being as romantic
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  after the honeymoon stage. But women miss that.
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  Like men miss sex. And I'll tell you, there are
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  plenty more women. But generally, if if you have to
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  say like who's having, who's doing more of what they don't
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  want to do in terms of sex versus romance, women are cause
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  like on average, you know, women are having sex like once a week
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  and men aren't planning dates or being romantic or doing any cute
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  little romantic thing once a week.
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  You know, in most relationships that I see, you know, especially
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  if the guy is avoiding and there are more avoidant guys.
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  So because there's more avoidant guys that crash out of the
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  honeymoon stage and stop doing what they want than avoiding
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  women, there's more preoccupied women.
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  You wouldn't think that from the Internet, but I've told you that
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  numerous times. You know, there are more women
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  having sex that they're not excited about than men doing
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  romance they're not excited about.
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  Because many men only do something romantic, like for her
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  birthday, Valentine's Day or whatever, and she's still having
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  sex with them like once a week, you know, And it's it.
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  Honestly, even in time spent, she would still be ahead of the
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  game, even if it's a 5 to 10 minute encounter every time
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  she's going like two dates a year.
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  And this is very, very common, you know, because a lot of men
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  just think that, like, women think.
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  They think romance should be organic, and they blame the
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  woman for the fact that they don't feel as romantic anymore.
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  Instead of understanding that that's natural honeymoon stage
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  hormones that fade. It makes him think that she's
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  like the most wonderful, beautiful woman in the whole
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  world, so that he impregnates her and makes a baby with her.
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  And our species survives, right? Just like her body's telling her
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  to make a baby with him by thinking he's like hot and sexy
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  so that she wants to have sex with him.
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  So the the point here is, is within a long term relationship,
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  nobody can rely on spontaneous romantic or sexual desire 'cause
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  you're gonna be waiting for Godot so much.
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  Like I tell women and this the truth, that responsive desire is
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  what kicks in in monogamy. So you have to get yourself in
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  the headspace where you mindfully and intentionally
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  basically lay down and start to kiss and hug and touch.
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  And at that point your body can become aroused and you'll have
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  sex, right? Because you'll want to.
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  Because the foreplay and touch has warmed you up.
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  Well, it's the exact same thing with romance.
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  So a lot of guys tell me that they don't plan date nights and
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  they don't act romantic and they don't give compliments because
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  they're just not feeling it. And it's probably 'cause she's a
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  bitch, you know? And well, what the fuck though?
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  I mean then why would you want her and expect her to understand
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  responsive desire? And to these guys, credit, they
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  don't expect her to understand responsive desire because they
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  don't understand anything that's going on.
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  They're just like in Plato's cave, you know?
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  One of my favourite analogies. And they think that she just
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  doesn't feel it anymore, and they don't feel it anymore.
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  And those things are just not fixable.
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  And they don't understand anything about biology or about
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  the honeymoon stage or about hormones or about anything.
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  So they just feel like they're not romantic anymore, 'cause
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  she's a bitch. And she just bait and switched
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  them. And you know, like this whole
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  level of thinking, she bait and switched me with pretending to
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  be sexual. And that's why I don't feel
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  romantic anymore. It's 'cause we don't have the
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  same kind of sex that we used to have.
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  So obviously, as I've taught you, that's bullshit garbage,
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  right? And so she did not bait and
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  switch anything. I have a podcast with that title
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  Honeymoon Stage, and why There's no bait and switch.
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  And she's just not feeling it the same as she used to.
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  And then she doesn't know that responsive desire can kick in.
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  So what would romantic, responsive, romantic desire
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  analogously look like? It would look like a man doing
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  the things that I tell men to do in couples counseling.
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  Put in your calendar to text message her something cute.
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  Put in your calendar to buy her little cute stuff from Amazon.
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  You know doesn't have to be expensive.
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  Put in your calendar to schedule date, night and a babysitter.
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  If you wait until the spirit moves you, it's never going to
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  move you because you are no longer in the obsessional
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  honeymoon stage. There's a lot of water under the
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  bridge and resentment in both directions.
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  So there's a lot of women who are preoccupied attachment.
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  They're still having sex with the guy.
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  They're having, you know, sex a few times a week even.
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  Because preoccupied attachment women are very anxious about
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  maintaining the relationship. And he's not done anything
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  romantic in years, literally years.
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  You know, anything that by any stretch could be considered
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  romantic. Does he get her a birthday gift?
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  Yeah, he does. That's kind of bare minimum
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  though. Is a birthday gift, and she gets
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  him a damn birthday gift too, and she's having sex she doesn't
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  want to have, you know. And so a men that are
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  preoccupied attachment don't really understand this because
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  they don't talk to other men and like, goes to like, you know, so
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  the preoccupied attachment men on the Internet are all talking
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  to each other and then they think that their experience is
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  the common universal male experience.
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  It's not, you know, all the preoccupied attachment.
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  Women are talking to each other on the Internet and thinking
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  that their experiences for all of women.
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  These are all the women who I try to write podcasts, write
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  posts and make podcasts for like why men don't take care of you.
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  And there are guys who help with housework and stuff like that
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  because those women don't understand that guys can be
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  nice, just like the preoccupied attachment men don't understand
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  that women can be nice because none of those people saw a
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  loving relationship growing up. So they get hooked into the same
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  kind of dynamic where one person is cold and retreats and is
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  avoided, and the other person is obsessional and controlling and
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  jealous and preoccupied. So that's the only dynamic that
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  they really understand. Insecurely attached
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  relationships, though frequently people understand more because
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  it was modeled for them, Not just because they're like
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  smarter or something, but because it was actually
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  something that they saw growing up.
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  That people have to mindfully and intentionally, you know,
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  stoke the embers of their relationship by doing things
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  that then they will want to do once The thing is started.
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  So if you're a guy listening to this, that really was probably
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  sent this by your wife, if you're avoidant and it's really
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  you've been waiting to have the spirit move you to do the leg
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  work of booking a couple's weekend because you're going to
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  have to talk to her mother to watch the kids.
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  You hate her mother. You don't like to talk to her
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  mother. You got a lot of shit on your
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  plate at work. You know, The kids are really
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  annoying anyway at this age and they're all in your bed at night
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  and so you're exhausted all the time.
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  And you know, watch your My wife is pretty much phoning in the
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  sex that you have anyway, so honestly, why should you go out
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  of your way? You're sure that if she was
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  doing a better job in bed then you would turn into Mr.
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  Romantic, but you know she's not, so you're not.
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  So if you're that guy, why don't you think about how you could
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  talk to her mother and have her watch the kids for two nights or
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  one night and plan a couples weekend and then see what
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  happens? Because that's responsive
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  romance. You will feel much better about
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  her and the relationship when you are on the couple's weekend
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  that you didn't think would be great anyway that you thought
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  would kind of the juice wouldn't be worth the squeeze.
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  Many people, it is worth the squeeze.
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  When they finally do it, they have a better time and a more
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  romantic time. And some of their romantic
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  feelings that they used to have kind of, you know, crop back up
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  in those circumstances, especially because she's so
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  happy and she acts more like how she used to act too.
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  And so then that's a virtuous cycle where more romance leads
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  to more sex leads to more romance leads to more sex.
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  Now, if you're a preoccupied attachment guy listening to
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  this, you're like, but I am romantic.
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  I'm so romantic. I leave her cards, I leave her
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  notes. I do all of these things.
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  I do all of these things. And she doesn't sleep with me.
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  And she doesn't want romance and she doesn't want anything.
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  Well, you're not the audience for this, right?
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  And your wife wants you to lay off and to listen to my stuff on
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  preoccupied attachment. Husbands, She doesn't want more
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  romance or more sex. She probably wants you to act
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  more independent and less dependent on her approval for
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  everything that you do. And at that point, she might
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  find that more attractive. But if you are in a If you are a
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  man who's been accused of not being romantic, then this
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  podcast is for you. Just like the responsive desire
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  ones are for women who have been accused of not being sexual
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  anymore or not having enough sex with their husbands.
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  If your wife has said you are not romantic enough and you
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  don't do cute little things and do you even love her, then you
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  have to get yourself in the headspace that you are out of
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  the honeymoon stage now. You used to be drunk on new
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  Relationship energy, your dopamine and adrenaline, and
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  everything was was different than it is now.
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  It was a different internal neurotransmitter cocktail.
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  And therefore you acted at your most romantic then.
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  And she misses that a lot. And so if you were, you're never
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  going to feel moved to do that randomly because you're not
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  drunk anymore. Just like, I make the analogy of
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  like, if you expect your wife to have honeymoon stage sex with
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  you after the honeymoon stage, it's like expecting her to dance
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  on the bar when she's sober. She's not going to dance on the
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  bar when she's sober because she's not drunk.
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  So what you can do though, is say, OK, I may have to engage in
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  responsive romantic desire, which means that I schedule
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  something much like my wife I wish would, and many of these
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  women do, but would schedule sex and then get in the mood for it
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  later. I'm going to schedule romance.
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  And then get in the get in the mood for it later.
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  So I'm going to schedule a date night, and when I see her
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  dressed up and excited to go, my romantic feelings are at that
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  point going to kick in, even if I had a rough day at work.
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  Even if I think that going out to dinner is a stupid and a
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  waste of money. Similarly, if if you buy her a
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  little present, even if you think it's stupid and a waste of
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  money to buy her a little present, and you do buy her a
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  little present and she's flattered and she's smiling and
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  she's happy, that's when your feelings of romance may kick in.
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  Much like the response of desire kicks in when the woman puts
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  herself in the frame of mind to be sexual and begins touching
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  and begins foreplay. So it is some sort of illusion
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  among preoccupied men that men all maintain their similar level
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  of romance forever, and that women's sex drive goes down.
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  That is not true in all humans. All drives go down over time.
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  If you're preoccupied attachment, then you're obsessed
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  with her. That may not be coming out that
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  romantic, by the way, either. It may come out very much like
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  you're just waiting for mommy to tell you you did a good job.
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  And that is not romantic either, by the way.
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  So as always, if if these things seem like a bridge too far, then
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  therapy or coaching or anything like that can help you get in
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  the right headspace. Because some men just don't
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  believe me. They're like, no, you romance
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  has to be spontaneous, it or it has to be organic or it's fake.
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  Well, that's just not true. You know, you you can
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  intentionally create a dynamic. You could at least try.
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  Just like when women say to me, Oh no, that would never work.
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  If I started to kiss him and touch him, I would never get in
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  the mood. Yes, you would.
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  And many try. And they're like, oh, yeah, I do
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  get in the mood. Yeah, no shit.
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  Wow. That's pretty different, you
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  know? And people are actually kind of
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  pleasantly surprised to see that there's a different way to get
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  at the same sort of outcome. So you want, if you want your
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  marriage to work, then you want to have sex with your husband.
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  So many women are quite relieved that responsive desire works.
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  And they e-mail me and they're like, oh wow, Responsive desire
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  works, you know? And similarly, many men, many
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  male clients I've had or even just readers and people on the
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  Internet are like, wow, I tried the things from your post, 10
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  Concrete Ways to be more Romantic to your wife And she
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  really liked it. Thanks so much.
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  You know, she's acting different toward me.
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  And these are men that are literally following shit on a
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  list. That's not organic, that's not
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  spontaneous, but it's useful because that is how romance
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  works. And I'll link my actually, it's
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  one of my my first podcasts. If you like podcasts, you just
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  go to the Spotify app, There's a search bar, and you type in
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  romantic, possibly romance, but I think romantic.
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  And then you'll get 10 concrete Ways to Be More romantic or
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  something like that. All right, I hope you guys found
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  this idea of responsive romance to be interesting.
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  And I will talk to you all soon. Have a great day guys.