Latest / Sukany4: The Walk and Talk Podcast / S1E7 - Sinead Torley - Derwent Water - Business Analysis, Working mum and Networks

Transcript

S1E7 - Sinead Torley - Derwent Water - Business Analysis, Working mum and Networks · Sukany4: The Walk and Talk Podcast

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode of the podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Today I am joined by the brilliant Sinead Torley on a beautiful sunny day as we stroll along the stunning Dermot Water in Keswick.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: We covered a lot of ground, both literally and in conversation, and I can't wait for you to hear it.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sinead is a working mum balancing full-time work with kids, and somehow she still finds time to volunteer for the International Institute of Business Analysis.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: She's even set up the first Cumbrian Business Analysis Network.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: As two business analysts, we geeked out over the tools of the trade, had a bit of a rant about PowerPoint, and swapped stories about the human side of introducing change into businesses.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Janae's also working on an exciting service definition project to help clarify the role of business analysts, a tool that will make it easier for BAs and stakeholders to communicate and understand when and how to get us involved in their projects.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: We also chatted about life beyond work, work-life balance, and of course we bonded over our love of podcasts.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So grab your sunglasses, settle in, and join us on this sunny walk around Keswick as we dive into everything from business analysis to the little things that make life fun.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Sineve! Hi Zakania! How are you?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Good, thank you.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for meeting me today.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: No problem, my pleasure.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um so Kesik, I've not been to Kesick for the longest time, which is probably why I parked in the one carpet.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: But it could have been worse, I guess.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So how's your how's your morning been?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's summer holidays now.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um obviously working moms, I've dropped them off at the kids' uh club this morning.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um trying to do a bit of balance and act between yeah, working and childcare and um spending some time with them as well.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it must be really hard because you're pretty busy with work, aren't you?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I work full-time as a principal business analyst consultant, uh-huh.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it is very flexible, which is really good.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I work full-time and then I do um some volunteering as well within business analysis for the IIBA and I also founded the Cumbria BA network as well, which takes a little bit of time, yeah, keeping that going as well.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, how um what does the IIBA stand for to start with?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: The International Institute of Business Analysis, so it's actually global, yeah, um, but they have different chapters, so there's the obviously UK chapter, and then within that there's about oh should no, probably about seven or eight other chapters.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm part of the North Branch, which I've been covered anywhere from Barchesterfield up to Scotland.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh so it's quite wide reaching.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, so I've just started volunteering for them about November time, um and part of that was to try and see if we can help get some more events uh closer to to Cumbria because everything tends to be like York, Manchester, etc.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we always take the travel tax.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we do.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was another reason for doing the Cumbria and BA one as well, just trying to get some more things in a bit more of the local area.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'd say trying to do that travel, because even between Cumbria it could be a good hour and a half from north to south, couldn't it?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, sorry I missed the um in-person meetup.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: How was that?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh that was really good, yeah.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think we the weather wasn't on our side that day, it was like a downpour.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um we did that in Carlisle at the Cumberland headquarters, which was um they can't be hosted us, which was really nice.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um with Sarah and a few of her team from the Cumberland, okay.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and myself and um Magda.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we met up with Little Buffy, which was nice.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh true Cumbrian culture, and it was a cup of tea.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we just had a chat, really, we just repurposed it.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Originally, Sarah was going to do as a presentation, yeah, but we'll we'll save that one in the backlog for another time.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we just all got together, really had to get to know each other a bit.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I guess it was our first in-person one, so nice to actually put things to faces and meet people in person, had a chat about um well just about getting to know each other a little bit and then about our backgrounds.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, then because we were in the uh Cumberland headquarters, it was really quite a nice place.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: So Sarah was giving us a bit of background on when she actually worked on that project, which was interesting.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, because I was working on a similar project for uh uh a new building opening for a university, so we were comparing some notes as well on that, which was nice.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we just talked about yeah, be a community, I think we've discussed things about qualifications, um just various different things, and that's where we decided maybe we should do it bi-monthly, yeah, and trying to talk about like the best is it best to do it at lunchtime, etc.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think another thing with Cumbrian culture is people do kind of switch off at five o'clock at night, and they don't really, you know, you kind of and it's good as well just to have you know that balance, but of other places, um like my consultant is based in Sheffield, and I've got so many events in Sheffield and Leagues, like even the point where there's more than one on a night, um to do with like product money and you know this analysis as well.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's like think tanks and all sorts going on.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I think when Cumbria it's not as yeah, the common is as different.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess the whole the the more corporate technical things tend to happen outside the county, don't they?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think that's why I thought I'll do it at lunchtime and then people will be more likely to come along.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I've just been trying it out really at the moment.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like the violence we and the ritual and the lunchtime to try to see what um what six people.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's difficult, isn't it?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because just as a general thing up here, I've noticed I moved up from London and my schedule was busy like to the half an hour.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so it wasn't until COVID hit that I took the foot off a bit and I thought, oh, let's just make this a bit more flexible.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when I realized that actually a lot of my friends who who are more well, I've been here 16 years, yeah, but a lot of my friends tend to what they tend to do is keep their weekends fairly flexible, whereas mine was jam packed.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so I'd get messages saying, Oh, I knocked on your door, but you weren't in.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's that kind of culture, which is really nice actually.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, once you kind of retrain your brain to be a bit more flexible and yeah, hack it in less, it it does work really well.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it sounds good to sort of shake up that model and see what fits.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think like so since COVID, I think there was a lot of focus um on the organisation that I was working with at the time, they had a real focus on like well-being and having that like work-life balance, and they actually um and and uh and role modelled it from the top, having that 12 tool two in your day actually as a no-meeting time, yeah.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it was kind of like you say, modelled from the top, so you knew that you could protect that time and have it safe, and yeah, it's about encouraging you to go out for a walk, yeah, or actually take a lunch rather than having it at your desk, yeah.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think that just having that time that you know in the day that you haven't got back-to-back meetings, so and then it's kind of continued.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, now people are going back into hybrid working and things, but yeah, I think it's like you say protecting that bit of time for for yourself.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like I always try to make sure I'd get a lunch, um, a walk at lunchtime, even if it is just ten minutes, exactly just helps to clear your mind the difference, doesn't it?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think also because we are so dependent on the weather, yeah, you have to be flexible or you'll never go out.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you could go for weeks and not come back, couldn't you?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's always um handy.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did you get into business analysis and how would you describe business analysis?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no good question.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, I've been performing the role as business analysis with that title for 10 years, but I think I was actually doing it prior to that, I just didn't know about that's what it was called.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I've always been in IT and business change.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: I started off in testing so user acceptance tests, and it's actually testing requirements and kind of the other end of um the life cycle that I'm at at the moment.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I've always really just been interested in working with people and helping people, um, and I did a lot of things like business process improvements, um, quality assurance, and it was all before I got into the formal role at business analysis, it was all about improving like people, like the business or processes or um ways of working.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the kind of thing I enjoy.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then a job came up as a business analyst.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was actually a guy I was working with said, Oh you'd you'd be able to do that.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the type of stuff that you do and you enjoy.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I don't know what a business analyst does.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I looked into it and I looked at the job description and I was like, Oh yeah, I've done all this type of stuff, that sounds good.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I applied for that and got that and yeah, really enjoyed it.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then worked way up to senior business analysts, and then I was um kind of managing the team and helping to like build the the year capability, what services do they provide?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um so business analysis, um summarise it in my terms, um, is really about helping businesses or helping people um see where like inefficiencies are or maybe where improvements could be made.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but looking at it holistically, um thinking about like the popular people, processes, yeah, the organisation information.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: So often um I've always worked in the IT kind of um department, and other business owners do work in in other areas as well.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um so often the change is coming from because someone's implementing some tech or they've seen some tech that they want.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I think business analysis is looking at it holistically to see well, if we do implement that, what is the impact on um all those things about people and processes um and ways of working?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um putting some kind of structure around that really.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, you'd kind of think about capturing requirements, making sure that they're documented and captured and that they're able to be then tested when it comes to it and built into the design of whatever solution it is that you're working with.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's looking at business process improvement, it's looking at uh business change, how it's going to impact people or the structure of the organisation, um, and being that kind of bridging that gap really between I mean a bit of a translator sometimes between the business and the project team, so knowing when to um you maybe dial it down on the technical information so that the customer uh the end user understands, and then dialing it up if you're dealing with maybe like testers or just uh you know architects or even more of the techie ones.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So he's kind of been that uh middle middle person, uh, to make sure that that that gets across quite a diplomatic role, isn't it?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is trying to keep the peace, definitely.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's evolved a lot over the years as well, and I think um it's probably not as well, like I said, I didn't know about it till ten years ago.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think even if I say no to my family and I'm a business analyst, I just nod and smile and like just something in business.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: They don't actually want the answer because they're always no example, yeah.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I don't think I don't think my husband still understands what it is that I do.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Just talk a lot to people, I think.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um well I my my journey was pretty similar to yours actually, so I started in testing as well.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, and then um moved over at that time it was called systems analysis, yeah.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time I went back to testing because our client, who shall remain us, decided not to pay for requirements.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, yeah that came back to point.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um yeah, so I stayed in testing for a bit longer and then went back into analysis because actually, well actually I started on a graduate training program and I was fixing bugs, yeah.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the day that I fight it all finally clicked and I was like, oh my goodness, I get it.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like I cannot do this for the rest of my life.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the beauty of these training programs, isn't it?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: You do get to try it out properly and yeah, work out where you fit best, and I think I just um well I just talk too much tonight.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: I do talk a lot as well, but I'm I quite enjoy it.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I think it's evolving, it's in it now as well.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I think people can specialise if they want you to do more um like development or architecture or like more down the technical route, or there's um obviously like user research and service designers, which I think have got transferable skills for people going from business analysis into that and vice versa.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot more opportunities now and a lot more like definition around the roles and the practices.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's quite um yeah, loads of opportunities if you wanted to like you think they say, Oh, I like I like doing this part of it, yeah, kind of craft it a little bit more specific.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you find um being part of the business analysis networks like the big ones like IIDA?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think that's um where I kind of got the inspiration to do the Cumbrian network as well.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I first went to the um IRM European BA conference, it's in London, uh-huh.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um three years ago now, and that's where I met with about 400 different business analysts there.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's a very um the noise.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the noisy front.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um 400 BAs there and lots of different tracks with loads of different topics and presentations um and hearing from different people and kind of realised that because I'd already done business analysis in that one organisation out of the time, realised there was this much bigger world out there.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that the BA community are really they they want to be like helpful and motivating.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I always came away from those type of events, really like enthused, yeah, um, and always had things to take away.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I thought well I'll set up the BA for the one that we can hopefully have something, you know, bottle a bit of that up uh and have it on our doorstep rather than like you say having to travel to London or Manchester or wherever it might be.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: I do find that a lot of BAs just as a you know non-technical skill set are just naturally much more empathetic, yeah, and really are interested in in making things better.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean I feel I always feel uh so fulfilled doing the role because I feel like you are actually in a position where you could positively impact someone's daily life if you get it right, and I do always try and position it carefully because obviously it's out of our hands to the extent what does get delivered.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: But to kind of say, you know, there is an opportunity here, and my job is to call them out, yeah, and then hope that the the weight goes in their favour.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think there's that job satisfaction with it, like you're saying.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: I can if you can see a lot of people having some frustrations at the end point, and hopefully you can see how that can be then removed or improved.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is satisfying.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um the IIBA one they do a lot of um, and that's what I'm part of uh helping organise now like different events again in person or webinars and speakers, um, and again it's just having that people at a wider network to be able to to reach out to um or learn from.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I think there's a really strong BA community, yeah.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um especially on since I've only really been on LinkedIn the last two years, I would say.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I found that a really good place as well, like loads of knowledge and different people, and I think a lot of people like do reach um reach out to each other and like say want to help each other, yeah.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um which I think is um really positive.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: I used to um be part of the British Computer Society, and then I stopped because I wasn't actually using my membership very well, yeah.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I thought I need to take a pause and take a think about how I want to network and what I what I want to gain from it.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because for me it's always been about job satisfaction, and I'm quite happy to fly under the radar, so to speak.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not I'm not um um yeah, I wasn't clear about what I wanted to get out of networking.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, whereas over the last couple of years that's really shaped itself, and I've joined different networking groups, and I just think it's such a such a wholesome experience.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you even meet a lot of like like-minded people, don't you?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then and you find out about yeah, other things that are going on, like since doing the Cumbria Network, and I've done obviously some research, user research on like you know, who which VBAs in Cumbria and which organisations, and yeah, um that's been really interesting finding out about um all the different people and I've kind of learned from you know that this I could say a bigger, bigger world than we realize.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's been like yeah, really interesting meeting meeting some new people and actually finding out about I didn't realise that there was a BCS um Cumbrian branch, which has been good for Stephen and Dave's um and then just other practices like yeah, like say with the Cumberland, but they got quite large VA teams actually.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh have they?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's interesting to to connect with them and find out a bit about how they how they're doing things.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh that sounds yeah.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realise um the Cumberland had a big VA presence.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's um in the 20s.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, that's incredible.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like a whole hidden society thing.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've been really intrigued and finding out about all these things.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously there's um people like ourselves that are you know consultants or like loan loan workers, yeah working with other organisations, but there's also some bigger companies out there as well.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, so it's been nice to to connect with those and feel part of a community, yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Combining the passions of analysis and people in Cumbria all together.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I think it's great because actually in Cumbria there's so many hidden talents.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and everyone and actually not many people want to scream about it, but kind of like hiding in the cells.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do their thing.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not I think it's valuable, it's funny what you say about that corporate community, like Cumbria unless you know they've obviously got some um big organisations, but it's kind of a lot of very rural as well.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I used to work for uh Declan the Rural Payments Agency.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think it's kind of it is a different uh culture and and lifestyle, isn't it?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: It is, yeah, it's definitely a lifestyle.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean I am like a permit sometimes and I quite like it.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm kind of really happy with my little case.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but then how nice is it to like 20 minutes ago and we're somewhere like this to do with the lake and the mountains and yeah I'm surprised it's not busy actually, didn't we?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well it is, but it is early.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: We are for a change I was on time.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: It is very picturesque, isn't it?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it's stunning.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And Dermot Water is actually one of my favourites, it's just so beautiful, especially when you get a still day, sort of like today, where you can see the reflection so perfectly beautiful.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's no place like it, Chine.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: There isn't we take it for granted sometimes.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: We do, don't we?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and where you are is um also beautiful because you're on the coast.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm like five minutes from um the shore, which is really nice.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um I think I find the sea quite calm as well.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna go on like like lunchtime walks.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: I sometimes often go to the sea because I think it's really calm and as well and nice.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: I find that I do my best thinking when I'm walking.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not even intentionally sometimes.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: You see, like you maybe solve a problem that you didn't even realise you were put doing in your head and be like, oh yeah, I can approach it that way.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: You don't think unaterally kind of think in a very linear fashion, I think.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then you get into a Google trap and then you know the day's gone.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: So have you always lived in Cumbria?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't I actually was born and lived in West Yorkshire for um I moved just before I was five, so um don't remember that much name, yeah.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've kept my accent much.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um but then we moved up here then, and then I've been in West Cumbria for um well I'll give away my age, but yeah, the rest of the time.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh don't worry, I've just turned 45 and I've been reflecting on my career and thinking, goodness, it's actually been really great.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, really lucky.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I've been really lucky to do something or fall into something really um that I really enjoy and been really lucky to work with some really, really talented people.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And some really great programmes.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's the thing about the business analysis and um I don't know if you're familiar with the BS Guild initiative.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: From last year, but I think it's a profession that a lot of people have fallen into by accident.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like see where either they weren't aware of it or they won't realise that that's what they've been doing anyway.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think over the last few years it's becoming more um well known.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, there's yeah, um, Christine and Adrian set up um this BS School Day initiative where it's actually trying to stop that accident being accidental and being more um intentional.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And Nick and I've got a lot of entry-level um opportunities and um apprentices and that we can do and actually um going out into schools and educating and that knowledge awareness in a young age that they can actually choose it as a career rather than uh stumbling over it by accident.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well I think as an industry we fell into it by accident, yeah, because it was drawn uh driven out of need, definitely, and yeah, so many projects were were being built and solutions built without understanding the problem.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that possibly more time and effort makes to fix straight a done and money is in it, yeah, definitely always money.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but yeah, it's it's really fascinating, and I actually the the downstream impact on actual humans is what has never had not previously been considered.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there is a real mental health toll for some of this stuff, definitely.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people can get really stressed about, you know, concerned about if you're gonna bring in the same in shops in the bright in the self-service tills and things, isn't it?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: People get obviously quite worried about, you know, whether there's the job threatened or they're all threatened, or they might enjoy their job and then it's gonna change significantly.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a big psychological part of change, isn't there?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is it 10 years ago or so?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, maybe more than that.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's been so long.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've been working for 25 years in this job, um, which is really great.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: I I am really lucky about that.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we did a change, um, yeah, it must have been over ten years ago, but even then I was shocked because we were transitioning a whole business away from a blue screen system.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, Sinead.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like change is difficult to accept anyway, but that was a leap.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the operators were used to using their keyboards and you know F1s, F2s, and tab buttons and then we're bringing a mouse in.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and now it's all touch screen.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, such a culture change.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: I had people crying in UAT.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, it was it was just that human impact is so underestimated, yeah.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And we need to, you know, uh over time I think it has got better.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but there is a real toll, yeah.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, there's that big um like generational shift as well.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: You think you're you're quite a keyboard and then a lot of like um you know, Jen Jen Z will be won't even have used a a keyboard or a typewriter, so they won't even, you know, we'll be able to relate to that.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then never mind a pen.
• 25:05
  unknown: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean I look horrified when people give me a pen, I'm like, you won't need to actually sign it.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that kind of almost uh a a skills um potential gap or yes, you know, something you need to address, isn't it?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: About um people's abilities and and yeah, yeah.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it shouldn't preclude them from definitely participating in these things, but it there is a real genuine fear factor that needs to be considered, definitely.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: I find it fascinating.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, what do you think about um all these techniques and exams and things?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I've done um the BCS international um diploma.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'd started that when I first got to my BA job, so I find it really helped me because it gave me some foundations and kind of give me um I suppose like industry best practice.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um not always able to then go back and apply it straight away, but at least you knew what was kind of the industry um standard, yeah, and the thinking and yeah, so I think it was good for um giving it obviously there's the beer toolkit is huge, there's hundreds of tools and techniques, and it's uh a case of um sometimes trying trying it out and see if it works, you know, trying to and then knowing when to um you're using your own knowledge and experience and discretion of when something would be applicable, depending on like on the scale and the complexity and the scope of what you're doing.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, but no, I think um I would encourage people to do the qualifications, but something I've been asked um before is about doing it before you become a BA and I wouldn't necessarily recommend that because like learning to drive and then not driving a car for a couple of years, you probably forget a lot of things.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's good if you're doing it and then being able to apply it.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: I agree completely.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I have this internal debate all the time about you know, I had a very average academic career, and I think a lot of that was because I wasn't applying anything and it was just boring if you don't use the lustic terms, and then I just I just wasn't interested, and who cares if I get an A or a B.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I'm not interested, but as soon as I started working, it just all made sense, and I was like so motivated and so interested and hungry for more.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so part of me thinks, well, all of me believes that I should have really just done an apprenticeship.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, same.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: I like to say I think I had a similar uh academic background, I didn't know what I wanted to do.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't I did do business studies at um A level and I really enjoyed that.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um but when I left A level I wasn't sure what it was that I wanted to do, and I've just moved into a job to my testing job and then went up from there.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've done like you say qualifications well then.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I think yeah, looking back that would have been really suited for myself as well.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's something with qualifications, like I wouldn't just think about oh, I'll go on this course and then I can say I've got this certificate.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think it has to be relevant and you have to think about how that would apply to what you're doing.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's more than just the technical, isn't it?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've done so many things in my own time on softer skills and interpersonal skills, and I think one of the things that fills me with joy is that when I talk to some of my friends who have kids now, um they go to some really really forward-thinking schools where they're actually more interested in their kids' self-awareness and understanding who they are and what they're about.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: And when when I was in school it wasn't about that, it was just about you know, you're in the system and individuality is not important, yeah.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: But the the scores are yeah, no, I think to be I think that is in the shift that's happened over the last maybe ten or so, yeah.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: It hasn't like you say I think the awareness of mental health and well-being as well has come a lot more um uh yeah, people a lot more aware of it and um they've just different obviously training and support in that area.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well you can see it in the gen Zedders, yeah, because they are so much more aware of how they want to live their lives, who they are, what they're willing, you know, where the boundaries are.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and like I had no boundaries because I just did what I saw, regardless of the impact to me personally.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there was um there's another uh cultural change that's happened as well.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: With I think it used to be that you would get a job in a in a business and organization and either stay there or work your way up and be there for 20, 30 years.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of loyalty, you know, you get a watch or whatever, yeah.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Your clock or look good on your CV, where and it would probably look bad if you'd had several jobs.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I think now, especially with like uh zero hour contracts and um with the Gen Z it's probably much more different for them because it it doesn't look negative, I don't think, anymore.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, um you've got different you know sectors and different organisations, and I think that was something that was drilled into your head about you know, go somewhere, get a job, not your job for life.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's all like a dead sentence to me to be honest.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I really like doing it on a consultancy basis because I don't like the operational day-to-day stuff.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, I like yeah, doing you know the exciting sexy bit, definitely call the process model sexy, I don't know.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: But to me it feels like art.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I agree.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm also very aware that there are things I'm good at and there are limitations, and and yes, we have got 99 plus techniques, but in reality, I think most people use two or three, yeah, and that's the comfort zone techniques.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but sometimes I think bats would be um like institutionalized as well, depending on where you are there, but you shall use physical, you shall use this, and it kind of limits you that way, and death by itself, yeah, and powerpoint yeah, PowerPoint, why does that happen?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: It drives me mad.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's one of my pet hates, and anyone who's worked with me has heard this rant about you know, some things need to be in a document.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, they are not a slide pack.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: The slide pack is meant to be high level.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a lot more makes me feel like crying actually.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: I really hate it.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as somebody that's in receipt of it as well, you know what you don't want to sit and go through 95 months, do you?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a lot of the wrong format.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a lot more about storytelling now, isn't it?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: And reusing your slides as like a prompt or a visual.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um I did go to one of the sessions, I think it was last year's um VA conference, and it was saying about yeah, like you're saying, you know, if it's really wordy, it probably doesn't need to be in a side side package, it should be a handout that you give to people.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's like people should be penalised.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Points to the um because yeah, no one wants you, no one can physically sit and read it and take it all in the attention span's gone.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and like I say, as someone who's delivering it and as someone who's receiving it, it's just not fun for anybody else.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you need detail, you can't get away from it.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: You need detail, and then you can lift it up or you know, break it down how you want, but without that foundation, yeah, like what are you working from?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's the message you want to get across.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Fine, but yeah, you know, yeah, keep the 20-page document for like reading later on.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's a place for it, isn't there?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I do appreciate that you know, because of social media, because of the way we live our daily lives, it is getting harder from an attention span perspective for younger generations to sit down and read a weighty document.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not something they used to.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like before agile, we obviously used to do massive like user requirement specifications, yeah.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: It should be like, you know, 50 pages long and you have to go into all the detail and you would sit and go through it in that much detail.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: And now obviously you've got a lot more flexible in agile work and if we used to do a little bit at a time and building on it, but yeah, you used to be massive, we used to use huge detailed documents that probably then would get shelf work.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Shelves until well I've worked for a lot of clients who don't have a tool set in place, and I tend to be more along the strategic analysis path now, and so it's before any of that's arrived.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so what I do still write the meaty documents, but I break them down so that um you know, really good examples of uh something we did last year, and um the business the permanent business analyst was awesome, and um he Stephen, shout out to Stephen, um he he and I dovet really well together because he was sort of doing the um uh what's it called?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you take pictures, it just says all it's really stunning.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to screw up the recording, um, which is still working by the way.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, we dovetailed really well, so when I did my sort of um strategic document, he could then pull that into his tool set and I I formatted it in a user story manner, yeah, and shaped the processes in that way so they were able to dovetail it into the tool set.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that worked really well.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: And he said his feedback was actually it saved time in the agile process because they had a starting point, yeah, and then they could elaborate what they needed to and break things down further if they needed to.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it was actually quite a good compliment set.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think for the last well, I've never I've never worked anywhere that's um fully agile.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean they have agile set up really well, yeah, but it's always been agile, definitely, yeah.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Same same experience.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's no intentions there and they like the idea of the um you know doing iterations and plastic, etc.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I think still not a hundred percent able to either because of uh approval and governance processes or just the people and um yeah, in that kind of mindset impossibly.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you're right.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think the full end-to-end of incept inception of a program or the need for a program is sort of born, and then we decide we're gonna have I don't know, a massive five million program, twenty million program pounds, and we've got ten projects within that, but a business analyst hasn't been involved in that.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, and that is such an oversight, yeah.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason your needs are exactly and the reason your projects are then overlapping independent is because it's not been scoped strategically from a well it has I'm not disparaging anyone's work, of course.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course it there is a strategy behind it, but if you don't have the business analyst working on it, I think sometimes it's seen as like, oh, what are you doing?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had people try and treat me like a secretary.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just take a note, yeah, just gather their equipment.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Go and get them and put them in a basket.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, or we can do our own, you know, reuse us as far as our own.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the whole analysis bit is completely unmisunderstood that we're not just there to take notes, we're actually analysing the output of what you're saying, yeah, making sense of it and pulling it together.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's um something that I've um been working on actually with my current client, and actually that's my what my talk is this year at the conference.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've done it in my previous organisation as well.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually um creating and implementing a beer service definition, so actually documenting what it is that the beers do and what value do they add.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, what is it that you would expect because really business owners are providing like an internal service often to you, the the business rather than be external customers.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's looking at it as delivering a service that the beers are delivering a service, yeah, um, and actually setting your stall out to say this is what the beers do, this is what the deliverables are, this is what the outcomes are, this is the value that that will add, and it helps the beers themselves because that gives them some clarity on kind of their role and responsibilities and their boundaries, and they can be used it as a bit of a challenge if someone just asked them to take notes or do something that's not necessary.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, they can be like, Well, actually, that's not something part of our services, yeah.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it helps with those wider uh discussions about when to get a beer involved.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like so sometimes it's often too late, either they get them at the requirement stage or sometimes even later, and actually, like you say, they could be really helpful at the strategic stage, yeah, or the options analysis or feasibility.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's about really defining it and using it as a communications tool, um, but also just providing that clarity because I think there is an issue around, like you said, that ambiguity about what do they do, and because it differs from different organisations, like you say, people use different techniques, different tools, and depending on what other uh roles, adjacent results exist, like um service designers or user researchers or testers, yeah.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: They might be ears might take on more or might do less.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's just really good to have it documented and communicated.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is exactly at this organisation, this is what the BAs do, and this is what you can expect.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: So the um the talk I'm delivering with um the head of B8, uh Cambridge Uni, Caris.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um we're just excited.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing a collab collab.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we're just gonna talk to our bit of a case study, really on our journey, um, from some of the reasons why Caris wanted to do it, and then how we went about uh defining it and then implementing it.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that's amazing in September.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: So when's the book launching?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there is already a very good book uh from Christina on uh delivering business analysis.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be expecting something in that 26.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think no, I have um yeah, definitely this last year's been quite um a bit bold, but transformational really in terms of pushing myself out of my comfort.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: So and I think since leaving that large organisation that I'd worked at for 10 years and going into the world of consulting, yeah, has opened up a lot of opportunities and that podcasts with self and with Lando and I've been a user panel and um put a couple of blogs and then I've been doing these um events for the volunteering for the different communities.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I've done quite your name a lot.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um well not yeah, I don't know what that but just kind of um yeah, pushing myself, pushing my own like boundaries with the idea of like like being scared but doing it scared rather than being like, Oh, I'm not gonna do that because a lot of people don't like what I'm talking about or yeah, they think I don't know what I'm talking about, and it's kind of just like yeah, ignoring that and doing it anyway.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's switch that voice up.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's like learning about yourself and your own limits, and yeah, again, what do you like enjoy?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um and if you don't try it, you're never gonna know.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: And there's always gonna be that what if, and that what if is actually really grating and loud.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, this uh the first time I was speaking at a conference, I'll find out whether that's something I want to do again.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll let you know in September.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really exciting.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed other people's.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've always like I say found it really yeah um insightful and taken away, so hopefully other people can take something away from this one.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, yeah, something new.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we'll look forward to the update on that in September.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um what date is it in September?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the conference runs from the 16th to the 18th, and then on the dawn this on the Tuesday, yeah, which is quite awkward time, it's at five o'clock, yeah.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: Which is the last session of the day, and it's right before the feed links.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a good or a lot thing for people from the networking event.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: The worst one is always after lunch, isn't it?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like the graveyard shift.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're tired from the full bellies.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's actually a better workshop slot.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so this is people doing something.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's the last session of the day.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it's yeah, people will hopefully be staying around because they're getting the the networking session.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it doesn't even have to be I've been nervous all day.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that it's a good look.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but also like because it's the last session, I think you'll it helps with the networking.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can come and listen to my talk and then I can enjoy the next day because I love doing it then.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: You'll sleep well that night.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I am looking forward to it.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I think um I did do a blog about um leaving your comfort zone, and it's about you're not you don't learn and you don't, you know, yeah um develop yourself while you're in your comfort zone.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's good to push yourself out of it and feel uncomfortable sometimes.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: Get that sort of adrenaline going.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Feel a bit sick.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: I always feel a bit sick before I do anything public and then and then it's fine.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then you find it yeah, somebody enjoy it.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really great, it goes really well.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I think that's good, isn't it, to be um like nervous and things.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: It is because it means that yeah, you are in trained.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the same with um with work as well, this is analysis.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think when people be added and we'd implement and change, and often you do face a lot of resistance.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and people will be sometimes get a bit frustrated, thank you, or angry, yeah, um, or upset, like you were saying before when you had somebody upset, but it it kind of shows that they're care.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, well work with these people because they've actually got, you know, with some passion about it or they actually uh want to make some improvements.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um it shows that you actually, yeah, they actually do care.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Interested, yeah.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Which is half the battle really because the the more challeng the more challenging projects are the ones where you're struggling for struggling for engagement.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: And finding techniques around that, but that's a whole other podcast.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: That can go in your book, that can be a chapter.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sedicate that one to you.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that'd be great.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, what do you do outside of working?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I've got two young children, yeah.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: And six, so they keep me uh busy.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: I did buy a paddle board last year.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which we've quite fun.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've not had um Do you stand or sit?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: I do I've start sitting and then I build up my courage to stand and have a bit a wobble on, but um I've got a big one that I could put the kids on as well.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I haven't used it as much as I'd like, but obviously run with the the weather this summer.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I like to try and do that in the summer months.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um try and keep fit with walking and yeah, um I go home gym, so I've tried and danced that this morning happy six.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh that's good, I didn't make it.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um again, I think it's good for your mental health.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely um I'm a massive gym person, I love exercise.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh which is really odd because if you take take things back to like well, no, it's not odd because actually, if I think about the history of my life, which we won't go into, don't worry.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um walking has always been in my life to walk to school and back, which was like three miles for day levels, and then when I lived in London, I was walking everywhere.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: Then I moved up here and I put on loads of weight.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're in the fellow.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was driving everywhere, yeah.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because of the public transport and I wasn't used to felt walking, I didn't even know it was a thing.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because when you grow up in East London and you live in a city, it's not even a thing.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why would anyone do that?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Just look at it.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that was a loud one.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so actually exercise has always been there, but because it has been integrated, I didn't notice it.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: But when I stopped and I gained weight and I was my mood was off, everything was off, and then COVID hit, and it was a good reset, and I got back into it, and I'm quite an extreme sort of character, yeah, and so I threw myself into it, and then it was like trying to then bring that down to a normal sort of pace to fit into working again, yeah.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't an all-or-nothing scenario.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's uh it's like with me.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's fitting, like you say, into your making it a habit, isn't it, and fitting into a schedule because I was thinking I like it to like nighttime, and we've got the kids who've got their activities and play taxi, and they're just tired and you've got the energy.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: So especially in this now it's been later mornings, I've been trying to integrate it into my morning routine before the kids get up, and then it also sets me up for the day, I feel good, and then I know I've done it.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm really smug on my morning calls.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always like done already by eight o'clock.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I'm that person.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I've been to the gym, I've got that, just wash my hair, that's why it's work.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm definitely the same.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: I am I am a morning person as well.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely have an energy in the morning, and I prefer to do meetings and things in the morning because like you say come two o'clock on I'm starting on that like um and energy jump.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: I have to say, I think I'm an all-day person.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: I am really irritating.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I think a lot of that is um if I miss my slot.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm gonna if I decide I'm going to the gym at seven, yeah, and then it's seven oh four, then I can't go.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, oh my god, no, I'm off the track.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then that whole thing plays on my brain the whole day.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so sometimes I'll just it'll be like, right, it's half eleven, I'm gonna go now.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, and so because I work with a PT, she's now um changed my program.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: So each sl each bit fits into a half an hour slot because I'm so fashionable.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so inflexible, and like I work in half an hour slots.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: If it's 45 minutes, then it's messed up the next slot, and I can't do like lunch and things happen.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think I'm gonna do about half an hour to be fair.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: It is half an hour a day, and then I'll do some cardio.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it just depends on the day if I do the cardio straight after, or if I go for a walk after work, or if it's pouring it down, I might go back to the gym.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so yeah.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and then other than that, I don't really have any particular hobbies.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: I like I do enjoy cooking and baking.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um used to make that quite a few like cupcakes and things.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's cool.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't get as much time now, and I've dabbled with doing the kids' birthday cakes and things, but I just get too stressed.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I like doing it, yeah.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: If there's no pressure on, I'd like to do it.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, there's too much Instagram pressure for that stuff now.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't envy parents.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: You've like um the perfect day.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, just a hobby bacon, and it's like immaculate 10-tier cake, and you're like, you're not really with a suspended can of juice pouring into it or whatever.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's for my daughter's person.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, I'm not not at that.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: I just enjoy it.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um I try and make but it doesn't taste baggy in my world.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing well.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I quite enjoy it.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think normally just for no reason rather than doing it for like an occasion or something.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um like a bit of reading, but yeah, I've not really got anything like strong probably hobbies, really.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, well those are that's pretty that's a lot considering what else you do.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the kids have got all their like gymnastics judicial football or beautiful, so it's really just and their birthday party social life.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, before, yeah, they get more and more.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I do actually I've actually started using Duolingo as well at the start.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I've been learning Spanish.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, have you?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: Someone's in like 180 day streak.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, that's amazing.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to lose that streak.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: I lost mine at 50.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I just try even just like 10-15 minutes a day rather than like aimlessly scrolling.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think I used 10-15 minutes online if I can learn something.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that's very good.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I kind of I did do a lingo and then I went to Italy.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely useless.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I cannot do anything without the app.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: And either little man to ask me a question.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was never like that.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: Although when I have a few drinks, I start thinking like a bit fluent, and it's like, oh drop the odd word in.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was absolutely crap at it, so I just stopped doing it.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I've worded or something.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I think you'd be very kind.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't carry the same optimism.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: The parents can speak um fluent Spanish, I think it's the South American version.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm like, why did you never teach us?
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just gonna do it myself.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do it yourself, yeah.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's good, like the kids are always like, You didn't use Spanish today, Mountain.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, they know that like I'm doing it as well.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's really sweet.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a useful language for where we live.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a lot of holiday destinations.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Spanish, don't they?
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: They do French at school, don't they?
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: My little boy's good going into yeah, into junior years, and he's gonna start learning French files and tend to learn more like Spanish countries, don't you?
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I did German and during my GCSE oral exam, I started talking about I don't know, like something really stupid and random.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: And my teacher was looking at me like, what are you doing?
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I was looking back at her, going, I don't know.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's a runaway train now, we're on it.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we go over with it.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, the sun is glorious.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, are you working today?
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: I am, yes.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I work very flexible, which is really good.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's great, yeah, especially during spirit holidays.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: But no, uh my company are really um good that way.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I just took a bit of time out this morning to do this.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really nice.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think that helps as well with your like mental load for the daily break it up a little bit.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and definitely enjoying this, isn't it?
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it'd be a travesty to not do this.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: To not be out when especially when the weather's like this.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely like work, work is not going anywhere.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've actually come to Keswick so many times and I've never actually done this movie.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh you're not I've now knew what I can do.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's very rare that I take people somewhere new, so that's nice to know.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's nice now to see what else to try.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh having said that, no, that's a lie.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: There are a few people I've taken on my usual, they're my usual roots, yeah, but they're new to other people, so that's nice.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I always think like it's my roots are so basic.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like definitely the tourist route, but stick to what you know other times.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm terrible for getting like lost.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: I've done it once and I think I know it.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh yeah, just give it in the mate.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, it's fine.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always getting me and my husband lost.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to do a late walk up.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was actually thinking about heading towards Whitehaven one Saturday because they've got a a market, haven't they?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lady who runs a a Dulsa truck, South Indian food.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: And she seems to be building up quite a quite a strong following because she's so consistent with it.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I love Dorsa.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, do you know what Dulsa is?
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's like a um, I guess the best equivalent is a rice-based pancake.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: Crepe.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: But it gets crunchy around the edges.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, it's delicious.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, there was a continental market in my couple of weeks ago, and there was lots of um collect street food plants doing um lots to fleet food, um, but it most of it had sold out by the time we got there.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh really?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um we have the um in bonus, we have the Sunday market now every Sunday, and over summer they're doing Sunday and Monday, which is great for the traders.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I popped in um what day were we on?
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wednesday.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I popped in on Monday and um it was raining.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: So um it was a bit quiet, but and that's the dedication, isn't it?
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: I just really admire people that do that.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was just talking to that living statue before he was talking to me, and he was saying about yesterday was a really good day, but yeah, obviously the brother does make a big impact to him as well.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: But he's been doing it for seven years, full-time job, and he was really enjoying it.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's incredible.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I get bored after like off an hour.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was saying it takes a lot of um patience and focus because obviously he just kept still for so long, but he said he just really likes ONZ and like concentrated, quite meditative, yeah, yeah, impressive, yeah, really impressive.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, what's the the next uh apart from prepping for your big event in September?
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: What's next on the horizon for Jinee Enterprises?
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good question.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't actually um give it much thought actually to be honest.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's a quick thing.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, I've got some rules for yeah, no.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um no, it's it is good to have some planning should be planning.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously trying to build the VA network as as well and um hope to get some more events and have gone with that at the orbe pick people up and um have like maybe some guest speakers I've like come with.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we would have some more like events with that.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it'd be quite good to see like um techniques in action to encourage people to use more than yeah, it'd be good to package.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: More than three, not only not three.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: We could have a session where we all uh yeah, yeah, like a good old post-it note one where we all see what techniques we use.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be interesting to find out if there's much variation and then we'd be suggesting some new ones.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: You could do just a a poll.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it'll be quite quick.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um a mess.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there'll be uh good, but actually I think it'd be good to know what other people are using, and then if there is some in there that maybe not everyone's using, then yeah, we can explore that.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good one.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'll add that to the uh agenda.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um I haven't really thought much else about um to be honest, I've been quite fortunate.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um like coming into my roles that I'm doing, I don't tend to uh intentionally say right, I'm gonna go a consulting or whatever.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is a big opportunity, just yeah, I care.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: I just go with it.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're attracting them.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I like to think about it.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't um I yeah, I don't very often kind of intentionally think, right, I'm gonna even though being a network is kind of just a bit of an idea.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I thought, yeah, if there's any in there, and I thought, well there isn't any.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I'll create one.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't really a big long thought.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I just did a bit of um put some feelers out, yeah, and said if there were any interests and see where there would be, and then like just went from there.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, probably not much of a planner and kind of yeah.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just kind of go with the flowing like as if opportunity arises and I normally uh go with it, but and it's working, yeah.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: I found your um VA network by accident.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I think um someone in my network shared something.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: Ah yeah, and that's how I think it was Miller.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: I have worked with Maxie, and um yeah, that's I think it was James, James at Everington.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh right, yeah.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: From the Motting.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh good, yeah, it's good to have my word of mouth or um sharing things, isn't it?
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be the same for getting your podcast um yeah, thanks for sharing, that was so lovely.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks to help uh and support us today.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm really excited about it.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I kind of feel like podcasts are so hid and miss anyway.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: I am doing it because I just love people, yeah, and I I'm nosy and I want to know about people's stories.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you just never know, like that one story might be exactly what someone needs that day.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm inspiring.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, podcasts are really good.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like you say, if you do our walking or uh like travelling in the car or the train or something, you can just I often just like stick a podcast for me.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it can be half an hour or an hour or something.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um they're quite handy like to be doing again, fitting with your day and what you're doing is in it, it's quite a yeah, a good format, I think.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if you find the right one, yeah, even if it's like halfway through or more than halfway through, you find that one minute of a nugget, yeah, that is gonna resonate with you and think actually I'm normal.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just need to taste that or something that feels that way, yeah.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, sometimes you need that because you get you can just get lost in your head and think, Oh my god, I'm not normal.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and what is normal?
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like anywhere with this, you know, Insta versus reality, yeah.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: What people portray versus what's reality, exactly.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's nice to have some yeah, honest and open.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so how did you go about thinking about you'll do your own channel?
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um well it was kind of um it was a couple of years ago, yeah.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, you know, with my day job, I actually interrogate people all the time, but it feels like a conversation, and um it doesn't feel like um a hostage situation, it's very much uh just tell me whatever you feel like telling me today, yeah, and then if I need more information I'll come back to you, yeah, but obviously in a much more professional structured manner, and um yeah, and I just really enjoy it, and I think you know when you connect with someone's um personality, yeah, it's so enriching, and people are just joy givers, some people not so many people, but even then, you know, there's always something you can take away from that experience, and so I thought, well, it'd be a good challenge.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, like you were saying, push your comfort zones, um, it'll be a good challenge to do something because I've always done everything so privately to a certain point, and um I thought I don't know why.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do I know why?
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know, I'm just not interested in the attention.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I I've never like shared a thing to say I've started a new job, or yeah, and I've had a LinkedIn account for as long as I've been working, so it's quite nice to look back on that sort of history.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then I see other people posting stuff, and I think, oh that's great, they've just started this job, congratulations! Yeah, and I thought, well, and then so what what happened since then?
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, right, I'm gonna push myself and do something that's a bit aligned to what I do anyway.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, home in those skills and um see where it goes.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if I get a good following, that's nice, yeah.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: But the main thing is really connecting with people is not really about chasing numbers, no, and um um I'm part of the pink link network.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so you talk about that, and so they did a spotlight, yeah.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I saw you from yeah, and I felt really uncomfortable and I was like, oh no, and I knew they were gonna do it because obviously they asked me, and then I thought, right, I need to so when they asked me, I thought, right, I'm just gonna put it all out there, I'm just gonna do it.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then as soon as I saw it, I was like, oh, I feel really uncomfortable, I feel really sick.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I saw it and I was like, Oh, I'm not to be, and then I brought you to come and talk about it.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: Which probably now know it's not a good thing.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, which was which was perfect because that was the point.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was really interesting to go through those emotions because actually I don't celebrate anything, yeah, I don't put it out there, so it was that was a really interesting process for me to go through, and um, but it was really lovely as well.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, there's nothing wrong with celebrating your success, and it isn't showing off and it isn't being arrogant, it's just kind of owning what you're doing, yeah, definitely, and that's okay.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cute.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so it kind of um timing-wise built up naturally from that.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that's quite good, yeah.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully the whole communication skills, interpersonal skills, interview skills.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't asked anyone five wise.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've not gone down that route.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: Listen to technical.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: How often are you gonna be like releasing it weekly?
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm not sure yet.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going for I was going for eight for series one.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're going to have ten.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really exciting.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's been a lot of excitement and it's good.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really nice that there are people in my network who really want to engage and share their story like yourself.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really nice.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, so I think we're going for ten.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the next thing I'll be working on is um because I am a planner.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_00: I am at work, but some reason personal life, I'm the opposite.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, I'm I'm like, I have a five-year plan, I have a ten-year plan.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: I always have a plan for everything, even if it changes, yeah.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: It there's a guideline.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so I'm gonna um have a launch party.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, very good.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: Any excuse.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just working out a date and then a date for the actual launch of the podcast.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's exciting.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, yeah, see where we go from there.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a pleasure.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's been really fun, and actually, we got sunshine.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know, it's been wildly uh scenic roof.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't it.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: It really was, really pretty.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for your impur.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'll send them in out afterwards.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: You can improve them.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, good luck with your conference.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited about that.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'll let you know, and good luck with your podcasts.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that wraps up today's episode of the podcast.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed our walk as much as we did around the beautiful Durban Water on this sunny day.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about so much from the challenges of juggling, full-time work with motherhood, to Sinead's incredible volunteer work with the International Institute of Business Analysis and setting up the Cumbria BA network.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: Where she gets her energy from, I do not know.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: We geeked out on all things business analysis, sharing our thoughts on the human impact of introducing changes across businesses, and of course, a good rant about the frustrations of using suitable tools for the job.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_00: Sinead's passion for business analysis really shone through, and like a true BA, she even turned some of the questions back on me.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: Very sneaky, Sinead.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: I saw what you were doing.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Sinead, for joining me today on this lovely walk, and I've really enjoyed learning so much more about you.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you to our listeners for joining us today.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed this episode, please do share your thoughts on our social media channels, tell your friends, and be sure to come back for the next episode.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: Until then, keep exploring!