Latest / 🎙️ Rebuild & Fulfill Real conversations on burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before. / I Keep Starting Over... Why? | You're Further Along Than You Think | Episode 23
Transcript
- Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Have you ever caught yourself saying, Here we go again? You started eating healthier, then stopped. You started working out, then life got busy. You promised yourself this time would be different. But somehow, you ended up right back where you started. Or at least that's what it feels like. But what if you're looking at it all wrong? What if you aren't actually starting over? What if you're starting again? With experience you didn't have before. That's what we're talking about today. Welcome back to another episode of Rebuild and Fulfill. I'm Kelsey Dunbar. Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: And I'm Mark Forgallon. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: If you've been listening over the past few weeks, you may have noticed a bit of a theme developing. In episode 20, we talked about the power of showing up and why consistency matters more than motivation. Then, in the next episode, we asked the question where do I start? And explored why action creates clarity, not the other way around. And then in our last episode, we introduced a concept we've been building over the past year called the transformation gap. The space between what we know and how we consistently live. And so today's conversation is really just the next step in that journey. Because once you've decided to change, once you've taken that first step, And once you realize there's a gap between where you are and where you want to be, something almost everyone experiences eventually happens. Life. Life happens. You stumble, you lose momentum, and before long, you catch yourself thinking, Great, now I'm starting all over again. But are you? That's what we're talking about today. So, Mark, when someone tells you, I feel like I'm always starting over. What's the first thing that comes to mind? Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: Recovery looks different for everybody. It's not linear. Everybody's story is different. The individual I'm talking to story is going to be different than my story. A lot of times recovery will include setbacks. It certainly did with my story, but those setbacks are learning experiences as we've talked about before. One bad day doesn't erase months of progress. That's very important to understand. And a setback or in the AA world, a relapse, doesn't mean that you're starting over. You're starting with a lot of education and you need to get back on the wagon and get rolling moving forward. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Yeah, I I think that's such an important distinction because I don't actually believe most people are starting over. I think they're starting again. They're they're picking up where they left off, that's all. And those two things are very different. If you've learned something, you're not back at the beginning. If you've grown, you're not the same person you were the first time. And even if you slipped, you didn't lose every lesson you learned along the way. That's experience. And experience matters. So, Mark, my next question why do you think people are so quick to believe that one setback erases all of their progress? Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: Well, there's a variety of reasons. One, obviously, again, we talk about we expect perfection from the person in the mirror, but we don't expect perfection from our friends and family. We hold ourselves to a higher standard. We don't give ourselves grace. I think that's very important. Two, shameful thinking. And you you and I chatted a little bit before we actually started recording this. And I think this is very important for the audience to understand is that when you go to meetings and you hear people talk about they got seven years sobriety or they got 10 years sobriety, 15 years sobriety, and then they're in recovery, you don't know the backdrop. You don't know how many years it took them to get to seven years or 15 years or whatever it might be. You know, there might have been a lot of stops and goes. They don't share that. You know, they go around the room and they say, yeah, Mark, I got, you know, six years of recovery or what have you. They don't say, you know, I had four or five setbacks and multiple visits to treatment and hospitalization. So when you're in the room, you know, you're comparing yourself to them and you think that you're a failure. And quite frankly, and I'm going to swear her, it fucks with your mind a little bit, you know? That's why I'm very open, honest, and transparent in the people that I work with, because I think they need to understand that I'm not a one and done type of guy. Because when you hear those stories, it's like an all or nothing approach. Well, I got to get to one year, I got to get to five years, I got to seven years, and I can't have any setbacks. That's bullshit. I don't think setbacks have to be. part of your recovery, but certainly, certainly the vast majority of the story is probably 90 % plus of the stories that you actually hear. It is part of their story. So, and when you make a mistake or have a slip up or a setback, that doesn't mean that you fail. Yet that's what you think when you're going through it because you hear all these people that got all the years and you're thinking to myself, why the hell can't I get to all those years? So I just think it's important, you know, that the audience understands that everybody has a story. Everybody has a journey. It's not linear. And, you know, most of the time they're probably worse than hiccups along the way. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Yeah, and it and I'm glad that you really kind of expounded on that. I'd actually like to expound on the comment about perfectionism because and you've said this a lot, so I I know you truly believe in it, but I I want to explain it a little further. So with the idea of perfectionism and the fact that the point that you made where we don't give ourselves grace, yet everybody else we're like, it's okay. We we all make mistakes sometimes. Why don't you say that to yourself? You've made that point before, but I just want to really make sure that that synks in. If you are the type of person to look at someone else, whether it's a loved one, whether it's a stranger, whether it's someone you work with, and you say, Hey, it's okay, don't worry about it. Mistakes happen. You should also be that person that can look in the mirror and do the same thing. So I'm I'm glad that you always bring that up, Mark, that that is something that people do, and you really need to work on that. But yeah, I see this all the time I'm sorry, go ahead, Mark. Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: Tell us. Yeah, no, I want to just say something really quick about that if it's okay. So when I'm talking to somebody, you know, and they got tears in their eyes and they think that they failed and they're going through all the emotions or what have you, I mean, I'll actually engage them. I'm like, okay, well, who's your best friend? I'm the best friend of so and so. Okay, if your best friend is in that situation, how would you talk to them right now? Well, I would tell them it's okay. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Sure, yeah. Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: You know, you can start over, blah, blah, you know, right? Okay, guess what? Your best friend and the person that you should love the most isn't a person in the mirror. So I want you to say that to the person in the mirror and let's get started again right away. I'll actually engage them because you'll hear that. So I think that's important for people to understand. You have to give yourself grace just like you're gonna give your best friend grace. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Beautiful. I love that. I'm I'm glad that I said something and to get that story out of you. That's awesome. So yeah, and and I see this all the time, obviously, in the fitness world. someone misses one workout or they miss a week, and and then all of a sudden it's like they're gonna wait till next year's New Year's resolution time. or someone eats an unhealthy meal and they're like, I'll just start again Monday, instead of just picking up where they left off. So that that translates into all different parts of everyone's own personal journey. or someone has a bad day mentally and then, convinces themselves they're back where they started. No, you had a bad day. Like wake up the next day, ready to attack the day and say, I'm not gonna have a bad day like I did yesterday. I'm gonna have better day. And believe it or not, you actually will. you know, that self-talk is is so important. but too often people convince themselves that they're back where they started and That's just not how progress works. One bad decision doesn't erase a hundred good ones. So, you know what this also reminds me of, actually? Learning to ride a bike. Nobody says, Well, I fell off. I guess I'm not meant to ride. They probably fall dozens of times, but then they get back on. Because in that situation, falling is expected, right? But somewhere along the way, as adults, We start believing that if we struggle, we must be failing. Or when really, when you think about it, we're actually learning. So, Mark, do you have any examples of your time coaching how this concept of starting over or why this type of mindset just doesn't work long term? Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: Yeah. again, recovery is imperfection. Growth takes repetition and confidence comes after doing. And yes, I have a specific example that I'd like to share with people. So I actually run a dual diagnosis group at the DuPage County Health Department. I've been doing that now for three plus years. And there's a regular that comes there. And this particular gentleman's got an amazing, beautiful story. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Nice. Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: He's an older gentleman and he's coming up on 32 years of sobriety, 32 years in recovery on September 26th of this year. But, and you know, again, if you're in the room at an AA meeting and you hear, got 31 years and I'm gonna be 32 years sober on September 26th, what is your brain thinking, right? Oh my God, this guy's got the shit figured out, right? Well, guess what? Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Mm-hmm. Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: His story, and he's very open, honest, and transparent, is it took him 20 years to get to one year, and now he's got 32 consecutive years. And that's what I was talking about and alluding to earlier. You don't hear the journey. You don't hear the ups and downs. You don't hear about the starts and stops. But this gentleman, very similar to me in the sense that he actually go visit patients in detox units. He speaks at hospitals and psychiatric units. He's very active in his journey. And he's got a pretty severe underlying mental health diagnosis as well. So he needs a dual diagnosis and that's why he comes to that dual diagnosis group. His life is not spectacular. He's got a lot of stuff going on. I mean, he lost a sister to ALS and he was a sister's caretaker. He just lost his mom to Alzheimer's back on New Year's Eve going into this year. But through it all, you know, he's unwavering in his recovery. But it started with a lot of starts and stops during that 20 years when he was trying to get to one year. And that's why I share that story with the audience. Everybody's journey is different. And I love the fact that he's open, honest and transparent and he's very upfront with the struggles that he had during those 20 years. It's inspiring. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Yeah. Yeah, i exactly. So now let's make this a little more personal because I know the audience loves your stories. So Mark, can you think of a time when looking back at your own personal journey when you finally accepted that you weren't actually starting over? You were just building on everything that you already learned. Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: I don't know when I learned that Kelsey. I learned it in recovery, sadly. I was working with AA sponsors, but I really didn't have a recovery coach. So every time that I would have a setback, because I'm not a one and done type of guy, I mean, I was in treatment. Four times between drug and alcohol treatment and psychiatric care. I mean, I would beat myself up because I'm the one that would go to those meetings and hear those stories about all these years of sobriety. Be like, why the fuck can I get there? And every setback that I had, or I called it relapse back then, which is, I hate that word because it's like dirty and it's shameful. But every relapse I had, was worse and worse and worse and worse. And again, that story of that gentleman speaking at the hospital, he had a 17 year run with heroin. A lot of starting and stopping, I think because that gentleman was just so open, honest and transparent with his journey and talked about how many years of struggles that he had. But then when you look at him and you're like, holy shit, this guy looks like he's got his shit together, man, you know, and he, you know, you never would have realized in a million years that journey, it inspired me. That's that was part of the inspiration because he wasn't a one and done guy either. And That's the motivation that I ran on. But then when I look back at it, and you're of sound mind, because now you're void of all substances, right? And you got clarity of mind, and you got lucent thoughts. With every setback, there was progress being made leading up to the setback. I was learning along the way. I just didn't learn that until I was in recovery and in sobriety. And that's why When I work with individuals today, I'm very proactive and very open, honest and transparent. And I tell the people that I'm working with, I don't want any friggin half-truths. I don't want no bullshit. I want you to be 100 % honest with me. We'll figure this stuff out together. Because I will walk them through a setback and talk about one, what was the learning experience of the setback? You know, what was the triggering moment? and what can we do differently. But then I will also remind them of what they were doing prior to the setback, whether they were going to the gym, making dietary changes, going to meetings on a regular basis, what have you. Try to focus on the puzzles leading up to it and then encourage them to get back on the program again and work on their long-term sobriety. But I learned that because of all the mistakes that I did. from my journey and that's why I talk about that. And that's why we, I don't wanna use the word preach again, know, cause I know it sounds like, you know, preachy, but that's why I communicate to the individuals on this podcast, okay? Or with the individuals that I'm working with on a daily basis, the message that I send, because it's all the mistakes that I made down the road to get here. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Yeah, I I I think that's the part that people miss. Every attempt teaches you something. Maybe you learned what doesn't work. Maybe you discovered a trigger like you just talked about. Maybe you realize you can't do it alone. And like you said, it having a coach and how much that helps or how much more that would have helped you and how you recognize that and that's why you try to be a coach for other people, you know, that's not failure. That's education. So my last question to you today, Mark, is if somebody listening today feels like they've quit on themselves, what's the first thing you would tell them? Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: Well, first of all, talk to yourself like you talk to your best friend. Give yourself grace. I mean, that's the first and foremost. get back at it. Start small. Take one step towards long-term recovery. Don't wait. Don't procrastinate. I was the king of that. was another mistake that I made and all you're going to get is deeper and deeper into a rut and you're going to get more chaos in your life. So let's get started again right away. Let's just focus on today and winning the day and get mindful again practicing mindfulness and living in the moment one day at a time and Let's just make the decision to move forward Simple as that Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Yeah, on the point that you made about not waiting, I mean, what's the quote? There's no perfect time to make a good decision. So yeah, I mean, just start somewhere, start anywhere. And even if it's something easy that you know that you can do that you almost think well, that's not really a a big move. It doesn't need to be. Just start something in a positive direction and let it build. So Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: Here's the deal, Kelsey, if you wait, okay, and you're dealing with depression, you're gonna get into a deeper depression. If you wait, and you're dealing with alcohol and substances, you're gonna create more chaos in your life, and you're gonna create more work on the other side. If you wait... And we're talking about weight loss and you had a bad week or a bad stretch in your weight. You're going to create more work and more weight that you're going to have to take off on the other side. So the sooner that you recognize it, the sooner that you make a small change in the sooner that you get back on the path to reach your goals, the better. Screw the shame and guilt and all that bullshit. You know that you're growing. You've grown to get to this point. you're going to continue to grow and get way past this point. And that's why I think it's so important to work with a coach, some form of coaching like us. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Yeah, absolutely. So maybe today isn't about getting your whole life together. Maybe it's just about proving to yourself that you'll take one step. Not because it's easy, but because your future deserves it. So if you've been telling yourself, I'm back at square one, I hope you'll challenge that thought. Because chances are you're not. Maybe you're exactly where you're supposed to be. A little bit wiser, a little stronger, a little more aware than you were the last time you tried. Every setback teaches you something. Every mistake reveals something. Every attempt gives you experience you didn't have before. So before our next episode, here's your challenge. Think about one area of your life where you've convinced yourself you failed. And now ask yourself one simple question. Did I learn anything that I didn't know before? And then write it down. Because that lesson may be the very thing that helps you succeed this time, or reminds you when you feel like you failed, and then you remember that this journey is a journey with checkpoints. It's not a sprint. And you'll remember and you'll use that to get yourself to where you're trying to go. So you're not really starting over, you're starting again. But with experience that you didn't have before. So if today's conversation encouraged you, share it with someone who needs the reminder that one setback doesn't erase their progress. Until next time, remember, you're not broken. You may just be overloaded. And we will see you next time on Rebuild and Fulfill. Take care.