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Your Stickiest Situations and Workplace Dilemmas — Answered on This Episode · Not All Business

• 0:00
  Welcome to Not All Business, a podcast by two former CEO's who
• 0:04
  went from competitors to friends.
• 0:06
  I'm Blakely Graham and my Co host is Heather Cooper and we're
• 0:09
  joined by our producer Clay Cornell, who's taking on a
• 0:12
  special role as referee and time keeper today.
• 0:15
  Because it's casual Friday and you know what that means.
• 0:18
  Clay takes over the mic and is putting Heather and I in the hot
• 0:21
  seat. Today we're taking on your
• 0:24
  sticky situations at work. The stickier the better.
• 0:37
  OK here we are, Casual. I got my casual Friday stuff on.
• 0:41
  I got my casual, I got my cat. Get a little hoodie.
• 0:45
  It's not a hoodie sweatshirt, but I got I got a cat.
• 0:47
  I got a cat sweatshirt on. Terrifying, you know, I was.
• 0:50
  Actually. Wore.
• 0:52
  My Mr. Rogers sweater today. It's so hot in here, I had to
• 0:55
  take. It off I was told that this was
• 0:57
  a casual Friday episode ahead of time.
• 0:59
  We decided that and both of you look like you're ready.
• 1:02
  This is not casual Friday. This is am I just casual Friday
• 1:06
  at home and your casual Friday at the office?
• 1:10
  OK, that's right. Absolutely, exactly right.
• 1:13
  OK, well, I feel like that's a sticky situation coming up.
• 1:17
  OK, you have officially designated me as the time keeper
• 1:21
  referee for this episode because we're going to get into many
• 1:24
  different sticky situations, but we need to clearly define for
• 1:29
  our listeners, for our viewers, what is a sticky situation?
• 1:33
  So what I'd like to hear from the two of you is what do you
• 1:36
  think a sticky situation is? What is it?
• 1:38
  What are the boundaries? What are you hoping to get into?
• 1:41
  Let's define it. What's a sticky situation?
• 1:45
  I'm speaking in my referee voice.
• 1:47
  Go now. Well, I don't know that we've
• 1:49
  ever put on paper clearly a definition of a sticky
• 1:53
  situation. So little off guard here, Clay.
• 1:57
  However, when I think of sticky situations, I think of them as
• 2:02
  just uncomfortable moments you had at work.
• 2:04
  Maybe you're not sure why. Maybe you're not sure who to
• 2:09
  talk to about them. Maybe they're really close to
• 2:14
  being HR violations or you have no mentors to tell you what to
• 2:19
  do. I think the best way to think
• 2:21
  about a sticky situation is like some example sticky situations
• 2:25
  like Heather, you and I have talked about, like what do you
• 2:26
  have to do when you have to fire your best friend at work?
• 2:29
  Like that is a sticky situation. Or what happens if you get
• 2:33
  propositioned to? Or what happens if you get
• 2:36
  mansplained over and over again in the board seat or the board
• 2:40
  room? So I think sometimes examples
• 2:43
  are the best way, yeah. I think so.
• 2:45
  I think like for me personally, when I feel my heart rate
• 2:50
  rising, when I start to feel angry and not necessarily
• 2:54
  knowing why or anxious and kind of that overcoming feeling where
• 2:58
  it's taking me out of my body, out of my logical mind, where
• 3:03
  it's like there's something else going on here.
• 3:05
  And making it sticky is really more like where you're not
• 3:09
  really sure how to navigate it because there's going to be this
• 3:12
  potential professional, not retaliation.
• 3:15
  That's too strong of a word, but just like push back or
• 3:19
  uncertainty of how sharing how you're actually feeling could
• 3:22
  impact. And so where can we find answers
• 3:25
  to those outside of the immediate moment?
• 3:28
  And that's that's why we're here.
• 3:30
  That was brilliant textbooks answer, very clear.
• 3:35
  It feels like maybe part of it too is, I mean, as I've been
• 3:39
  reading through what we're going to get into today, like all of
• 3:41
  the different sticky situations, they're really centered around
• 3:45
  not what other people's responsibilities are, but what
• 3:47
  my responsibility is in this moment now that I'm here.
• 3:51
  And but we're not operating in a vacuum, right?
• 3:53
  Like things are changing. So we might have a different
• 3:56
  answer six months from now, a year from now, based on how
• 3:59
  things go. So this is a really timely
• 4:02
  episode based on your experience, based on your
• 4:05
  wisdom. These questions are really
• 4:09
  people in a tough spot, like between a rock and a hard place.
• 4:13
  Oh boy. OK, so now it's like are we
• 4:15
  going to OK, so we need to disclaimer on this episode.
• 4:19
  Yes, I was just about to say we are not advice givers like we
• 4:23
  can give you what we've experienced my.
• 4:27
  Experience or what maybe we would do in that situation and
• 4:30
  then kind of take it or leave it, right?
• 4:31
  So yeah. Until Heather's lawyer that
• 4:34
  comes on, because she is a lawyer, so there are certain
• 4:37
  situations, we're just going to give them straight to her.
• 4:40
  We'll see. Well they'll it'll have to be
• 4:42
  lawyer glasses because like lawyers don't have specific hats
• 4:45
  but I will put on my lawyer glasses.
• 4:48
  But the I and and but they have to hang low.
• 4:52
  They got to be down. There I can't have them looking
• 4:54
  normal. Like librarian glasses.
• 4:58
  Totally. But what I was going to say is
• 5:00
  these are real situations. These aren't just like here's
• 5:03
  what you should do. Say this and then do this like
• 5:06
  that is not. Looking into.
• 5:08
  No, we are getting into stuff that is real, that is happening,
• 5:13
  that's uncomfortable, strange. And there's going to be, I think
• 5:17
  some moments where it's like you got to make a call here, but we
• 5:21
  can kind of help you describe maybe what's going on and what
• 5:24
  your options are, but you got to make the call.
• 5:26
  So we want to help our listeners, viewers, put them in
• 5:29
  the best position possible to get out of the sticky situation.
• 5:34
  Yep, here we go. I'm.
• 5:35
  Excited for sure. I'm actually really nervous I'm.
• 5:39
  Really nervous too OK because I have not seen these OK so let's
• 5:42
  OK So what are the rules? Because I'm.
• 5:45
  I'm working against not against did you see how that just flew
• 5:48
  right off my tongue against Blakely?
• 5:50
  No, I'm working with Blakely, but we're.
• 5:54
  Yeah. Are you on the same team?
• 5:55
  Is this a game? We're very competitive.
• 5:57
  I'm I feel like it's we're. Not on the same team, on father.
• 6:01
  OK, OK. Yeah.
• 6:03
  Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to go through these.
• 6:06
  OK. I will basically read off what
• 6:09
  the sticky situation is, what someone has written here.
• 6:12
  And then what we'll do is both of you will have a chance to
• 6:16
  answer. And then if I feel like we've
• 6:19
  got it, we're good enough, let's move on to the next one.
• 6:21
  I'm going to or, or. This isn't going anywhere.
• 6:25
  You're doing a terrible job. We need to move on.
• 6:27
  I'm going to. Hit.
• 6:28
  We need to cut that one, yeah. I'm going to hit a buzzer.
• 6:32
  OK, I miss having a guest. This is not what I want special
• 6:35
  Fridays to. Be like my my, not casual.
• 6:38
  Feeling hotter by the 2nd. Uncasual Friday.
• 6:42
  OK. So but we are competing.
• 6:44
  Is there a winner? I just is there.
• 6:46
  We're just we're working together to answer these
• 6:48
  questions. It's not who did it best.
• 6:50
  It's more like let's work together to give the most the
• 6:53
  best answer, right? Yes.
• 6:56
  OK, that's what I feel like it should be.
• 6:59
  I feel like you should give a performance review of the other
• 7:01
  person at the end. Done performance reviews.
• 7:04
  I will just say that's going to be my number one piece of advice
• 7:07
  in here. Do not do annual performance
• 7:10
  reviews or bullocks. OK, well can you do episodic
• 7:13
  performance reviews because this is a podcast.
• 7:16
  Absolutely. OK, Well then that's exactly
• 7:18
  what. We're going to do OK Should we
• 7:21
  just get into it? Yeah.
• 7:22
  OK, Let's get into it. I'm excited.
• 7:24
  I'm gonna call it money. No.
• 7:26
  Banter today, let's go. Hi everyone, Blakely here.
• 7:32
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• 7:35
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• 7:39
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  consultation. OK, back to the show.
• 8:26
  OK, here we go. Let's begin.
• 8:28
  Sticky situation. What do I do if I get blamed for
• 8:35
  a Co worker's mistake? What is the line between taking
• 8:39
  one for the team and standing up for myself?
• 8:44
  Wow, good one. I'm going first.
• 8:47
  OK, look at me go you you can like RIP off the Band-Aid.
• 8:50
  You go first. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:53
  Taking one for the team is a voluntary decision, so you own
• 8:58
  that decision, right? And if you are feeling
• 9:02
  uncomfortable speaking up to me, that's not the reason to take
• 9:07
  one for the team, right? In that situation, you need to
• 9:12
  set the record straight if you're uncomfortable, right?
• 9:17
  If you're uncomfortable speaking up, you Get the facts, you keep
• 9:22
  your emotions out of it, you talk to the person who got it
• 9:25
  incorrect, you state the facts, you don't get a motive and you
• 9:28
  move on. It's as simple as that.
• 9:30
  Now, if you want to take one for the team because like it's just
• 9:33
  not worth it, it's just not a big deal.
• 9:35
  Or you are the boss and you know, sometimes you do take one
• 9:38
  for the team, that is OK. But if you're doing it because
• 9:41
  you were nervous to speak up, I think that's time to correct it
• 9:45
  with facts, not emotions. Clear the air.
• 9:48
  That's so good. My opinion?
• 9:50
  Yeah, I agree with all of that. And yeah, my first initial
• 9:54
  question was depends on who who the Co worker is, right?
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  Like if the Co worker is on your team and you're a manager and
• 10:03
  ultimately like it would fall on you anyway.
• 10:05
  Like taking that and then returning back to the person on
• 10:10
  your team and saying, hey, let's correct this next time I took
• 10:12
  it. But like, I want to make sure to
• 10:13
  set things straight if it's the other way around, if it's
• 10:17
  someone with maybe this has happened time and time again.
• 10:19
  I think I agree with you 100% likely, I think you have to,
• 10:22
  your professional reputation is something that precedes you,
• 10:25
  especially as you move forward in your career and from team to
• 10:28
  team. And you want to be as in control
• 10:31
  of that message as possible. So.
• 10:33
  Absolutely. I agree.
• 10:36
  Set the record straight. Yep.
• 10:38
  OK, great. Let's move on to the next one
• 10:42
  that we're in the. OK.
• 10:43
  Are you feeling a little warmed up?
• 10:44
  You feel like you're a little at least.
• 10:47
  OK. Yeah, yeah.
• 10:49
  OK, let's turn the heat up. All right, here comes another
• 10:53
  one. I had a huge presentation to
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  give that I spent weeks working on for our annual customer
• 11:00
  conference. A couple of days before the
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  conference I was told my Co worker was a better presenter so
• 11:07
  they asked him to deliver my slides instead.
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  That sucks. In the moment I acted like it
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  was no problem, but it has been driving me crazy ever since and
• 11:18
  affecting my morale. How do I deal with the issue
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  without looking petty? Petty.
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  Who wants to go first? Why did you say Putty?
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  I don't think this is a petty issue at all.
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  And here I might not, I might not answer this question exactly
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  to the person I want to like, talk to the boss right now,
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  because here's the situation that I heard in that and it
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  pisses me off. So I feel really bad for whoever
• 11:50
  read this, that boss that asked you to prepare that presentation
• 11:55
  weeks a month ago, they know exactly how good you are or you
• 12:00
  aren't at making creating presentations and delivering
• 12:03
  presentations. So they already knew at that
• 12:06
  point that Jack or Joe Schmo or whomever has got the Kurisma on
• 12:09
  stage is like a better presenter.
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  So I don't feel like that was a good last minute decision.
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  What that boss should have done is giving you that presentation
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  if they wanted to, and knowing that you're going to create a
• 12:24
  valuable piece of work, help you by getting you a coach.
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  There's so many presentation mentors like they could hire a
• 12:31
  session and just help your presence on stage.
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  And So what I'm hearing is that part boss valued you, valued
• 12:39
  your work, but did not value you.
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  And that is shitty and I'm pissed for you.
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  Yeah, yeah, I agree. And I think the mere fact that
• 12:50
  the question was posed in in a very humble way, this person is
• 12:56
  still concerned about how they are being viewed.
• 13:00
  So like, how do I bring this up without being seeming petty?
• 13:03
  So girlfriend, boyfriend, whoever you are, I would say
• 13:08
  take the you are just fine. You are just fine the way you
• 13:12
  are. You keep showing up, you keep
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  doing the work. If there's a question, it is
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  what can I do next time? Better to present my own slides
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  or be a better use of my time to work on something that I can
• 13:25
  learn from instead of just being cast aside at the very last
• 13:29
  minute. I think you hit nailed it on the
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  head, Blakely, where it's like this is coming in at the last
• 13:33
  minute right before. I mean, imagine if this person
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  isn't, you know, exposed to public speaking a lot, imagine
• 13:40
  the anxiety leading up to that conference.
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  Like, you know, they were probably rehearsing at home.
• 13:45
  Who knows? Like they're carrying on this
• 13:47
  thing. It's like, let's be upfront
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  about it. Do better bosses with how you're
• 13:51
  communicating to your team and expectations.
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  OK, good. Done.
• 13:56
  Next. I was promoted last year and am
• 14:00
  now in the position of conducting the annual reviews of
• 14:03
  my friends. One of them is scoring below
• 14:07
  expectations and I'm afraid once I submit it she might get fired.
• 14:12
  Do I rate her honestly or do I work with her on the side to
• 14:16
  help her get better and hope for the best?
• 14:19
  I know she has potential. OK, Blakely, you don't get to
• 14:23
  just jump in here. I don't like, yeah, I don't, I
• 14:27
  don't like on the side either, but I know Blakely's like just
• 14:29
  don't do the reviews because she just hates them.
• 14:34
  Yeah, yeah. I do hate them.
• 14:36
  I know it it is super complicated.
• 14:38
  I would say for this one, you're going to get in trouble anytime
• 14:43
  you're not truthful with with a review.
• 14:46
  And I've run into this so many times where it's like a manager
• 14:49
  has rated because they felt bad for the person and they gave
• 14:53
  them five stars. But reality, the performance was
• 14:56
  very below expectations. It makes it complicated later
• 14:59
  when you do need to make a separation or there, you know,
• 15:01
  there is that time. It's like, well then they've got
• 15:03
  these five star reviews because they weren't being honest
• 15:04
  because they felt bad in the moment.
• 15:06
  So I think for both parties, employer and employee, it's
• 15:09
  really important, as difficult as it may be during the review
• 15:12
  cycle to be as honest as possible.
• 15:15
  So I would say, I hear you that it's that it's tough, but it's
• 15:20
  also about delivery and setting up expectations and goals and
• 15:24
  metrics for success. So if it were me, I would rate
• 15:27
  honestly, but then I would also add a plan along with a write up
• 15:32
  saying I do believe this person has potential and kind of make
• 15:35
  your case to keep them. And then offer another review in
• 15:39
  three months just to kind of track that progress to make sure
• 15:41
  that it's trending in the right direction so that your friend
• 15:44
  feels like you have his or her back while also maintaining.
• 15:48
  I mean, because your boss is looking at you to see can you
• 15:51
  handle management? And you have to be able to make
• 15:53
  these, you know, difficult calls and have difficult
• 15:55
  conversations. So I think you have to be
• 15:57
  thinking of yourself in that way too.
• 15:59
  But there's a way to deliver it with a plan that could
• 16:03
  potentially help help your friend as well.
• 16:06
  Yeah, I essentially agree with that everything Heather just
• 16:10
  said. And I think I heard that as an
• 16:12
  OR question like do I not do the review?
• 16:17
  Do I rate? Her honestly or do I work with
• 16:20
  her on the side to help her get better and hope for the best?
• 16:23
  I guess my only feedback on there is that was never should
• 16:26
  have been an org question. That is definitely an and like
• 16:29
  you do need to rate honestly and you need to coach them.
• 16:33
  You need to do both. And so everything Heather said I
• 16:36
  think was dead on. I don't have anything more to
• 16:37
  add with the exception of, and I'm not going to remember the
• 16:40
  phrase, but I had a coach once that said, you know, lying and
• 16:47
  not telling someone the truth is actually a tremendous disservice
• 16:50
  to anyone, especially a good friend.
• 16:53
  And so that train the friend is on is that friend's train, you
• 16:59
  know, like you can't stop that. You could help coach and maybe
• 17:04
  do something differently. But it is a gift when you give
• 17:07
  someone the truth. It is an absolute gift.
• 17:09
  And so I try to think about that when the conversation is so
• 17:14
  awful and it's awful. We're not going to like take
• 17:16
  away the awfulness for you. It's awful, you guys.
• 17:18
  It's awful to have to deliver bad feedback, whether it's a
• 17:21
  friend or not. But just know that it can also
• 17:25
  be a gift and they may not see it as a gift, but just know
• 17:29
  somewhere in their career they might look back on it as a gift.
• 17:33
  An acronym came to mind, PIP. Performance improvement plan
• 17:39
  worst. Thing ever, along with annual
• 17:42
  reviews. By the way, I like reviews and
• 17:44
  feedback. I just like them all the time.
• 17:46
  I don't like them once a year, I just think they're bullshit.
• 17:48
  This reaction comes from, it feels like two people who have
• 17:51
  been on a performance improvement plan.
• 17:53
  OK, next. Never.
• 17:56
  I was on a work trip with my manager and found out after the
• 18:01
  fact that she charged all of our social time, nightclub and
• 18:05
  drinks that was written down. Really.
• 18:08
  A nightclub? Nightclub and drinks.
• 18:10
  No one calls it a nightclub, OK? Fine, it was a.
• 18:13
  Discotheque. On the company card which is not
• 18:16
  allowed. Charged all our social time on
• 18:18
  the company. Is a nightclub.
• 18:21
  I think it's like. You got to get out more,
• 18:23
  girlfriend. You've been to Vegas.
• 18:25
  Yeah, but I don't go out in Vegas.
• 18:27
  What do they call them now? Club I stay in my I don't know.
• 18:29
  This person called it a nightclub, so I feel like we
• 18:31
  need to honor that. Nightclub.
• 18:33
  That's the bar. But OK, I get it.
• 18:35
  Like spend some money at a bar. The club, the club.
• 18:39
  Run clubbing. Lights gets.
• 18:42
  Yeah, OK. Yeah.
• 18:43
  OK, well, if we're we've got this person, you know, on the
• 18:46
  edge of their seat here. Oh, I love this person.
• 18:49
  OK so I'll start over. I was on a work trip with my
• 18:52
  manager and found out after the fact that she charged all our
• 18:56
  social time on the company card which is not allowed.
• 19:00
  Nightclub and drinks. Finance hasn't said anything
• 19:04
  yet. I'm assuming finance department
• 19:05
  hasn't said anything yet but I know it's going to come up.
• 19:10
  Do I wait or do I get ahead of it or do I try to stay out of it
• 19:15
  all together? Wait, no, it's.
• 19:19
  Stay out of it. I disagree.
• 19:21
  You've got to validate. No, I don't disagree.
• 19:24
  I just was about to like, abuse the author, and I'm really sorry
• 19:28
  for that. You guys abuse you.
• 19:31
  Absolutely stay Well, because I was going to make fun of it.
• 19:34
  You know why? Why would you ever get involved?
• 19:36
  This is your manager. Your manager is doing this.
• 19:40
  Like don't touch it with a 10. Absolutely.
• 19:44
  You're overthinking it. He or she, they're overthinking
• 19:47
  it. They're overthinking it.
• 19:48
  They're I know what they're. I know exactly what they're
• 19:50
  doing. They're playing out in their
• 19:52
  head. OK, She gets in trouble, the
• 19:55
  manager gets in trouble. They find out I was there too.
• 19:58
  They know. I know the same rules.
• 20:00
  I'm. Complicit.
• 20:02
  I'm in trouble too. They asked me, do I say like or
• 20:06
  am I like shifting the blame totally to her, like, you know,
• 20:10
  kind of going three steps ahead. But again, not her expense
• 20:14
  account, not her. She didn't have the card.
• 20:16
  She didn't have the ultimate say.
• 20:18
  I would stay out of it. You know, I got to tell you one
• 20:21
  time I was, like, brand new account manager.
• 20:25
  And we just, like, won this huge deal.
• 20:26
  And we went out to celebrate, not at a club, but at a sushi
• 20:29
  restaurant. And my manager ordered a sushi
• 20:33
  boat and drinks. And then another round of
• 20:35
  drinks, another round of drinks. And then he, like, got up and he
• 20:38
  said, oh, it's your account. You go ahead and, like, cover
• 20:40
  the bill Blakely. And I'm like, OK, like, I would
• 20:43
  never have ordered any of this. It was $1000.
• 20:47
  And it was on my personal credit card because I wasn't high
• 20:50
  enough in the chain to like have a corporate.
• 20:53
  Amending card. And I submitted my expense
• 20:56
  report. Oh my gosh, I had I it's the
• 21:00
  only way I could like feed myself.
• 21:02
  I had to like it was $1000 on my credit card and I submitted it
• 21:05
  and I got my ass reamed out like they're like, this is
• 21:10
  ridiculous. It's against Paulus.
• 21:12
  It was awful. Like I got chewed out like from
• 21:15
  my boss and my boss's boss and I just like begged.
• 21:19
  I like was crying. I go, I got to have the money.
• 21:22
  Anyway, I've learned a couple of things since then.
• 21:24
  So here's the deal. Most companies have policies
• 21:28
  that whoever is the most senior in the room picks up the tab.
• 21:33
  So I never pick up the tab if there's someone more senior.
• 21:35
  And that is what happened in this scenario that this person
• 21:38
  wrote in there was someone senior, they pick up the tab.
• 21:43
  It's just not your responsibility at this point.
• 21:45
  They can get their ass reamed up, reamed up, reamed out by
• 21:49
  their boss and their boss that's.
• 21:50
  Very graphic. I don't think we need to be
• 21:52
  that. Graphic to answer this question
• 21:53
  OK we can like. But I mean, OK, yeah.
• 21:56
  And don't buy sushi boats so expensive go to like.
• 22:00
  Do go to nightclubs, never stop going to nightclubs ever.
• 22:04
  But just, you know, you don't need to expense it either.
• 22:07
  So yeah, it's an ethical, it's an ethical issue.
• 22:10
  What happens though when they ask?
• 22:13
  You. Just tell the truth, it wasn't
• 22:16
  your to. Tell the truth.
• 22:18
  I guess maybe, like maybe not. Do you lie or not?
• 22:21
  That wasn't my question. My question is how do you
• 22:23
  answer? So you could ask, did you know
• 22:24
  about this? How do you say yes?
• 22:27
  You say yes, Yeah. Do you like look?
• 22:29
  I was like 3 tequila shots and down talking to a whole.
• 22:32
  Other group of people. So I mean that is where the
• 22:37
  buzzer is fast. No, actually finished.
• 22:42
  What were you saying? No, that's it.
• 22:44
  That's good. It was just going to go downhill
• 22:45
  from there. I'm cutting you off.
• 22:48
  OK, Yeah. I'm trying to help, literally
• 22:50
  help our viewers trying to help them.
• 22:52
  OK next I am livid that I was just denied a promotion that I
• 22:58
  was told I was going to get six months ago.
• 23:01
  The leadership team is claiming they do not have the funds to
• 23:03
  give me the promotion right now but will start to assign me
• 23:07
  higher level projects to give me the experience.
• 23:11
  Those projects take more time on top of my current workload.
• 23:15
  Do I take on the extra work to show them I can do it or say no
• 23:20
  and risk them promoting someone else when they have the budget?
• 23:25
  This is just like when you go in for an interview and they're
• 23:28
  like, we're not sure if we're going to hire you.
• 23:31
  Could you go ahead and complete these three projects and we'll
• 23:34
  see. And you're like.
• 23:36
  No, like, are you kidding? Me.
• 23:38
  I'm going to defer this one to you.
• 23:40
  This is makes me mad. Yeah, I'm, I'm right there with
• 23:44
  you. I but although I do appreciate
• 23:46
  the question because if it sounds like this person at least
• 23:49
  has been on a journey, if you know, they've thinking about
• 23:53
  being there in the next 6 months and they've proven themselves to
• 23:56
  at least be qualified for this quote promotion.
• 24:01
  I think I think this is very real because managers and
• 24:07
  leadership will have these good intentions.
• 24:09
  So I'm not even going to sit here and say, oh, they're just
• 24:11
  trying to scam you. They don't have good intentions.
• 24:13
  They might fully want to promote you, but the way the finances
• 24:17
  worked out last quarter or something didn't come in the way
• 24:19
  they hoped, they're not able to. So I think it's a fair question,
• 24:24
  but at the same time, you have to value your own time 100%.
• 24:30
  And so the only way to do that is to require compensation that
• 24:37
  is commensurate with your contribution.
• 24:42
  And without that, you are going to feel resentful, you're going
• 24:45
  to feel upside down, you're going to be strung out.
• 24:47
  And at the end of the day, the only person you'll have is to
• 24:50
  blame is yourself. So you really need to present
• 24:55
  something if you want to, to still have a chance at it.
• 24:58
  I would propose doing it in more of a, hey, I'm happy to take
• 25:01
  that on on a per project basis. And is there an an agreement
• 25:04
  that we can come to about what that per project would be like
• 25:07
  over and above your typical workload?
• 25:09
  That's what I would do, but I wouldn't do it for free.
• 25:11
  Bullshit on this now like this is like my HOA giving me another
• 25:16
  assessment because someone did not plan a safety net and a
• 25:20
  cushion. This is poor budgeting, poor
• 25:23
  planning. Promotions are thought out a
• 25:26
  year in advance. So whoever is running these
• 25:31
  companies, I hear this kind of example all the time and this
• 25:34
  should not happen. We should never be promising
• 25:37
  someone six months before that we're going to have budget for a
• 25:40
  promotion unless we have planned budget for a promotion.
• 25:43
  It's bullshit. So if you're trying to get
• 25:46
  someone to do extra work because they're capable of doing it and
• 25:49
  this person's obviously very capable, you're just being a
• 25:52
  cheap ass. You can find the money, you can
• 25:55
  find the money. I just think it's time for this
• 25:59
  person to honestly move on because I don't think that
• 26:03
  culture is ever going to give this person their worth.
• 26:10
  They're going to just try to sneak stuff away.
• 26:12
  I except for I have a soft spot for bootstrap startups who run
• 26:17
  to this all the time well. I was kind of calling.
• 26:20
  That's a little different. History with that, I think
• 26:23
  that's where, but I agree with you because that's where I'm
• 26:26
  thinking like bootstrap, it's like we think it's going to work
• 26:28
  out and yes, we can see that. And you want to give people a
• 26:30
  career direction and you want to say, hey, here's what we see for
• 26:33
  you down the pipe. Like you want that.
• 26:35
  But then if things don't work out the way you thought,
• 26:37
  sometimes you can't offer. So I, it depends on the size of
• 26:40
  company, depends how the finances are run, but ultimately
• 26:43
  you have to decide what's your time worth and what are you
• 26:46
  willing to do and what's the trust level that you have with
• 26:49
  these people now? Because I it would be pretty low
• 26:52
  at this point. Yeah, I guess I would give this
• 26:55
  one practical piece of advice. If you want to stay and you
• 26:58
  trust these people, or if it's a small bootstrap company and you
• 27:01
  have a bleeding heart from like I do, go in and say, hey, give
• 27:04
  me the title because I need the authority sometimes to act in
• 27:12
  that new role, right? To get the work done and get the
• 27:15
  relationships going. So give me the title and let's
• 27:18
  put a date on the calendar, a meeting, 90 days where we
• 27:22
  revisit the salary. And if the situation's still the
• 27:25
  same, then I'm not doing it right.
• 27:28
  So I think there are some ways you can maybe step into it and
• 27:33
  give them the benefit of the doubt.
• 27:35
  Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I like the idea of the
• 27:38
  title, but just from an employment agreement standpoint,
• 27:42
  let me put on my lawyer glasses. Here we go.
• 27:44
  Here. We go This is lawyer Heather
• 27:47
  coming out. I was weighting.
• 27:48
  They're up, too. High plaintiffs lawyer up too
• 27:52
  high Lower. Yep, Yep.
• 27:53
  There you go. Yeah.
• 27:55
  This is ridiculous, yes. That's the point.
• 27:59
  Let's hear it. OK, Plaintiff's lawyer.
• 28:04
  At this point you want to be very clear about your
• 28:05
  compensation so that you don't get in a position where you have
• 28:09
  a title that is overcompensating the actual you would get
• 28:13
  yourself locked basically in a pay rate.
• 28:15
  And so you ought to be careful with that.
• 28:17
  So if you were going to go for the title, no, I'm just saying
• 28:20
  if you're, if you're going to get the title, then you need to
• 28:23
  at least get a contract for the salary increase in X amount of
• 28:27
  days and you're willing to start ahead of time, but they're
• 28:29
  promising you that increase in 90 days.
• 28:32
  OK, compromise. Yeah, I'm talking a lot.
• 28:39
  I love you talking a lot. You have good advice.
• 28:43
  OK, so the advice is get money, get paid, OK?
• 28:47
  Value your time. Yep.
• 28:52
  All right, next sticky situation and we're not even halfway
• 28:54
  through, so let's go. We got to keep.
• 28:59
  Going faster. Got it.
• 29:01
  My company is doing a company retreat in the mountains.
• 29:04
  That sounds cool, but we are not allowed to bring partners.
• 29:08
  I have been getting borderline flirtatious messages from my
• 29:12
  manager and I'm worried he is going to try to escalate that
• 29:16
  behavior on the trip. This trip immediately sucks.
• 29:20
  Mountains are not. My husband says I should tell my
• 29:23
  boss and ask not to go, but I'm afraid I'll miss out on
• 29:27
  important networking opportunities if I stay home.
• 29:30
  How can I communicate my concerns without creating a full
• 29:33
  blown HR incident? I feel like we touched on this
• 29:41
  during the Dreamforce episode in a few different ways.
• 29:46
  What to to stay home from the party.
• 29:49
  No. Well, yeah, just and just this
• 29:51
  flirtatious thing. And it sounds like it's vague,
• 29:54
  right? Like, is it explicit?
• 29:57
  Is it real? It doesn't sound to me like
• 30:00
  they're fearing for their safety.
• 30:02
  Like if you fear for your safety, you go to HR.
• 30:04
  Like skip the boss, you just go straight to HR.
• 30:07
  Like that's done if you're really unsure, like if you, if
• 30:14
  you're not sure if like this is their personality or they are
• 30:18
  coming on to me. What I might recommend here, and
• 30:22
  I'm not an HR lawyer, but we have one in the house, so we'll
• 30:25
  get to her in a minute. But I would document all the
• 30:31
  little furtacious comments leading up to the retreat.
• 30:34
  Get everything on paper with the dates, but I don't want you to
• 30:37
  put yourself in an unsafe situation because that sucks.
• 30:40
  So I don't know lawyer, what do you say?
• 30:44
  Yeah, I agree. Well this isn't really lawyer
• 30:47
  yet, so. Crime has not been committed.
• 30:51
  We're trying to. God bless, yes, God bless your
• 30:54
  husband for wanting to protect you and not you.
• 30:57
  Just have you avoid the situation completely.
• 30:59
  Yeah, shout out. About that is, yeah, I mean,
• 31:01
  love him for that. The problem with that is
• 31:03
  networking does happen there. Friendships do happen, Alliances
• 31:07
  happen. We've all watched Survivor like
• 31:11
  you. Things happen in the mountains
• 31:12
  where it's like there are bonding moments.
• 31:14
  And so I don't want you to miss out on that because who knows
• 31:18
  how that can back to help you later in life.
• 31:21
  Why are you laughing, Clay? You said bonding in the
• 31:24
  mountains. I'm sorry, you said bonding in
• 31:26
  the mountains and I just an image an image.
• 31:30
  OK, I'm thinking like they're rock climbing and someone's
• 31:32
  belaying. So like this teamwork building,
• 31:34
  I don't know what the retreats about.
• 31:36
  All I'm saying is I'm guessing belaying maybe.
• 31:40
  OK, you don't want to miss out on this retreat for fun reasons
• 31:44
  and for now. Is in bondage.
• 31:48
  There's going to be straps. There's going to be fasteners.
• 31:51
  It's. Going to be.
• 31:53
  Carabiners. Awesome.
• 31:55
  Carib. Oh God, don't even get me
• 31:57
  started on the Caribbean. Voice.
• 32:01
  OK, first of all, that was not my sexy voice.
• 32:03
  My sexy. Voice will never.
• 32:04
  What is it? Appear on this.
• 32:06
  Pocket. What was carabiners?
• 32:08
  What was that? That's my that's my
• 32:10
  performative. OK, I'm telling you right now,
• 32:14
  my sexy voice will never be on this podcast.
• 32:18
  This is a performative sexy voice.
• 32:21
  That's appropriate. Definitely going.
• 32:23
  To be Wait, what did you say last episode?
• 32:26
  I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it, Yeah.
• 32:28
  Print the picture from Casa Bonita.
• 32:30
  Yeah, that was a good one, that picture, OK, but OK.
• 32:34
  But she she she needs to go. She needs to go to the retreat.
• 32:38
  I love the idea of documenting screenshots Whatever in case you
• 32:42
  need it later, but go into it with the mode of confidence with
• 32:48
  this is not what you're about. You are not weak you you do not.
• 32:51
  If someone speaks to you that way or isn't appropriate, you
• 32:54
  can say thanks, I don't appreciate that and you can move
• 32:56
  on. You owe this person nothing.
• 32:59
  Manager or not, there's that is not that behavior is not allowed
• 33:03
  and you don't have to take it under any circumstances.
• 33:06
  You don't have to take that. So go into it strong and
• 33:09
  powerful and choose how you want to spend your time, who you want
• 33:12
  to be around. If that shifts and you're
• 33:14
  getting a weird vibe, you exit the situation.
• 33:17
  And if for any reason you get any pushback of why you didn't
• 33:20
  show up or where you were, you have that in your back pocket
• 33:23
  and it's a very reasonable thing and they will not touch you with
• 33:26
  a 10 foot pole. If you have documentation
• 33:28
  already and you and you can explain yourself, you are going
• 33:33
  to be completely safe because otherwise that's called ause for
• 33:36
  the glasses retaliation. And you cannot be retaliated
• 33:41
  against for for reporting hostile work environment or
• 33:45
  sexual harassment. They cannot come against you
• 33:48
  with any. Yeah, it's, it's it's.
• 33:49
  What? She said.
• 33:50
  Man, Damn good. We are putting the disclaimer on
• 33:54
  this though, right 'cause I'm not representing anyone on this
• 33:56
  show, but that is true. That's oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:59
  OK. Yeah.
• 33:59
  For legal. Reasons the glasses change
• 34:01
  nothing. OK, next.
• 34:03
  Go to the mountains, get belayed and have a good belayed belayed,
• 34:13
  OK. I mean, I hope people OK.
• 34:15
  Moving on, get on clay, moving on.
• 34:18
  We got time, time keeper, we got to keep, we got to go, go.
• 34:21
  I overheard my boss talking to a few other managers in his office
• 34:26
  about being annoyed about the women in our department taking
• 34:30
  such long maternity leave. Oh, I'm out.
• 34:33
  Even give me that? Absolutely not.
• 34:35
  What the Just stop? OK, hang on.
• 34:38
  Oh, I, I what's the question? I mean, quit right now.
• 34:42
  Run. There's more Run.
• 34:44
  We're honoring the, we're honoring the submission.
• 34:46
  Sorry. That's all I'm saying.
• 34:47
  I've been pregnant for 8 weeks and just about congratulations
• 34:52
  and was just about to let them know to hang on a SEC.
• 34:57
  Sorry I got to read this right. I've been pregnant for 8 weeks
• 35:00
  and was just about to let them know to give them as much notice
• 35:05
  as possible to cover my leave. Now I'm afraid that could
• 35:10
  somehow be used against me or that I'll have a target on my
• 35:14
  back for performance. When do I tell?
• 35:19
  Them I would not. Really.
• 35:22
  I was. Going to say that not if I
• 35:24
  overheard that conversation and they're not.
• 35:26
  It's not an environment. Welcome to maternity leave,
• 35:28
  which is illegal by the way. But if that's who you're dealing
• 35:31
  with, I would be telling them the very last second possible.
• 35:34
  Interesting because I actually don't know.
• 35:37
  Like is there any law? Like do we have any need to
• 35:41
  tell? I would say never at 8 weeks,
• 35:43
  right? Like people start to feel
• 35:46
  comfortable somewhere between 12 and 20 weeks.
• 35:50
  So you're. Talking about me and the health
• 35:51
  of the baby to make sure that it's.
• 35:53
  Violent. Yeah, like, yeah, yeah, like
• 35:55
  people typically, I mean, you could share whenever you want to
• 35:58
  share. I kind of blurt things out
• 36:01
  early, but I know a lot of people are more comfortable at
• 36:03
  the 12 week mark or like the 20 week ultrasound.
• 36:06
  So 88 weeks. No, don't.
• 36:08
  You don't need to be courteous of your boss.
• 36:10
  They got to deal with this. They got to cover your maternity
• 36:12
  leave. Although Heather, I guess and
• 36:16
  also wait. There's so many thoughts in my
• 36:19
  head. One, go for it.
• 36:21
  Pregnancy. Being pregnant is a protected
• 36:23
  class, right? Yes, yes.
• 36:26
  So. They cannot retaliate on you.
• 36:29
  Yeah, no, can't. No retaliation.
• 36:33
  Again, this would be another time I would like document my
• 36:35
  performance. Oh, maybe this is a good time to
• 36:38
  tell you about my book. So I book in my do you have a
• 36:42
  book? I have a book, I have a journal.
• 36:46
  Every desk I've had, I always have like 1 locking drawer and
• 36:49
  in the drawer I keep a journal kind of like this, like a
• 36:53
  notebook. And what I would do in the front
• 36:56
  of the book I would write just like, you know, September 1st,
• 37:02
  deliver this presentation. It was a six week project.
• 37:05
  It went well. Got this praise and I would keep
• 37:09
  that for myself and I would also keep it for any of my employees
• 37:11
  like something they did well. I would just like jot it down.
• 37:15
  That would be the front of my book.
• 37:17
  But then if you flipped it over, the back would be the.
• 37:23
  So in the back, I would, I'd like document like toxic people
• 37:27
  in the workplace that I just couldn't handle and like shit
• 37:30
  they did or like something my boss did or something my
• 37:33
  employees did. And if I had to give them
• 37:35
  feedback, I would document like I gave this person this feedback
• 37:38
  on this project. And so I kind of had like a good
• 37:41
  side and a bad side. My only point for bringing up
• 37:45
  the book is this would be a time where I would put that what you
• 37:50
  overheard on the bad side and then I would put my performance
• 37:54
  on the good side. So when they did try to
• 37:57
  retaliate, retaliate on you, you have some nice documentation of
• 38:03
  like pregnancy does not get in your way for work performance.
• 38:07
  OK, guys, just doesn't. Anyway, yeah, these issues are
• 38:12
  really causing me to have an elevated heart rate.
• 38:15
  Did you, did you ever have to pull out that book for reference
• 38:19
  in an HR situation? Yes I we our company went under
• 38:26
  invest not my company. Couple companies before my
• 38:29
  company had an investigation for some harassment and like men,
• 38:37
  female, male, female favoritism. And so it was helpful in that
• 38:43
  sex scenario. Sexism.
• 38:45
  Oh gosh, there's words words for this.
• 38:49
  Male. Female.
• 38:50
  Stuff sexism. So, OK, here's here and I am
• 38:57
  100% on your side listener in this.
• 39:00
  And so we'll get back to that in a second.
• 39:02
  But I will say as an employer, it, it is tough when people are
• 39:07
  on leave. If you're a smaller employer and
• 39:09
  like in Colorado, for instance, like you have to give them, you
• 39:12
  know, 12 weeks, it can be unpaid leave because the state pays for
• 39:15
  you. There's insurance for that.
• 39:17
  But essentially you have to do without that role, right?
• 39:20
  Like you just, you can't hire someone else.
• 39:22
  You have to hold that role open for the person.
• 39:24
  And so that that can be challenging as an employer to be
• 39:27
  like, OK, well, what do I do with, you know, if all these
• 39:29
  people are out on leave? So I understand the frustration
• 39:33
  of the manager, but there are ways companies all over the
• 39:39
  world are figuring it out and doing it.
• 39:41
  There are ways to do it. And so to communicate that to a
• 39:43
  manager, overheard or not, is completely inappropriate.
• 39:47
  It is unfair because you know what, buddy?
• 39:52
  Your mom had you at some point. Maybe she worked or didn't, but
• 39:56
  like, you were born into this world.
• 39:57
  So let's not start shaming or putting pressure on people's
• 40:01
  right to give birth. And what that how that
• 40:04
  translates into work that is just so frustrating to me.
• 40:07
  So if I had a manager like that, I would not be telling them
• 40:10
  until I was comfortable and when it was kind of the time and what
• 40:14
  the appropriate amount of notice would be for any type of leave.
• 40:20
  Can I just call one? Sure.
• 40:23
  Yeah, one last piece of bullshit because I want this one on air
• 40:27
  and it really doesn't, to answer the question, but in America we
• 40:34
  don't even really give great maternity leave, so we're not
• 40:37
  even talking about a long time to cover.
• 40:41
  Max I've heard of in the States is like 12 weeks.
• 40:44
  I got to tell you, I was a freelancer in my first
• 40:46
  pregnancy, did not get any maternity leave.
• 40:48
  It sucked. The second I was working for a
• 40:51
  company and it got caught in that FMLA thing where we didn't
• 40:55
  have any protection. So it was like 2 weeks.
• 40:58
  You got two weeks. I could deliver a baby and I had
• 41:00
  to be back at two weeks pay. That's all you got?
• 41:03
  Actually, I don't think it was paid.
• 41:05
  But here's the thing, they had just reached that threshold of
• 41:09
  the FMLA, so they were getting the insurance and I might have
• 41:11
  told this story before. Yeah, 50.
• 41:14
  So Aflac came in to like give the insurance.
• 41:18
  I was pregnant and you know what they told me?
• 41:21
  pre-existing condition. pre-existing condition, Yeah.
• 41:24
  Is that pre OBAB? Didn't even get any maternity
• 41:30
  leave for that either. And so when I hear people
• 41:32
  complaining where we only give 12 weeks with disability
• 41:38
  insurance like it's a disability it's just bullshit.
• 41:40
  You can cover any freaking job for three months and not be a
• 41:45
  whiny ass Dick about it. I can't do this episode.
• 41:49
  Anymore, yes you can. Yes you can.
• 41:53
  I believe in you. No, I know it is frustrating to
• 41:57
  know that these are real life issues that people, our
• 42:00
  listeners are going through and it is heartbreaking.
• 42:02
  We deserve more. To do.
• 42:04
  You're off. Okay, we do keep going.
• 42:06
  Did we answer that question? Good enough, Clay.
• 42:09
  Yeah, you. Yeah, I feel like you, I mean,
• 42:11
  well, hey, listen, I mean, that's listen, this, that's for
• 42:14
  the person who's in this situation to actually.
• 42:16
  That's true, but we would just don't tell them immediately if
• 42:18
  that's how your boss feels about it.
• 42:21
  Yeah, Blakely, let's just let's just take a deep breath
• 42:23
  together. Are you ready?
• 42:25
  Yeah, Oh. Press your stomach out.
• 42:30
  Oh yeah? What was that breath work
• 42:32
  episode? Yeah, and you got little more,
• 42:36
  little more, little more, just like that second hit of a joint
• 42:39
  how you did at that concert. Alden would be so proud of us.
• 42:47
  If you haven't watched the Alden Holtgren episode, go back and
• 42:50
  watch it. She gives us breath work.
• 42:52
  It's brilliant, it's awesome, and I needed it because.
• 42:58
  OK, moving on, breath work or not, hopefully you're ready for
• 43:01
  this next one. OK, big one.
• 43:03
  And then we're going to do, I decided we're going to do like a
• 43:05
  little lightning round where I'm going to pitch you 3 really fast
• 43:09
  and you got to be done in like 15 seconds or something, OK.
• 43:13
  Oh, that's impossible. I know this will be fun.
• 43:15
  OK. Our company is considering
• 43:18
  offers for venture capital. I'm 40% owner and our CTO.
• 43:25
  Chief. Chief Technology Officer.
• 43:28
  Yes, I knew that. Yes, obviously I knew that.
• 43:30
  That's why I yeah, I knew that. And our CTO.
• 43:33
  You didn't say what VC is. Oh yeah.
• 43:36
  Or did you say venture? Because I said venture capital
• 43:38
  VC. Venture capital.
• 43:39
  I'm trying to be clay. OK.
• 43:42
  Our company is considering offers for venture capital.
• 43:45
  I'm 40% owner and our CTO, Chief Technology Officer is the major,
• 43:51
  sorry, excuse me is the majority shareholders brother.
• 43:56
  Nepotism. I do not believe the CTO has
• 43:59
  what it takes to grow the product, but my business partner
• 44:03
  refuses to acknowledge that and constantly makes excuses for
• 44:09
  him. Do I share my concerns with the
• 44:12
  VCs during due diligence or play along like everything is running
• 44:18
  smoothly? Stay to eat.
• 44:22
  It is sticky. But you know what, there's
• 44:25
  actually a really simple answer, I think, but I didn't know about
• 44:33
  it until I went through the process.
• 44:35
  So and my process was with PE private equity, not BC.
• 44:38
  So it could be a little different.
• 44:40
  So first of all, I will say, you are an owner, so you have a
• 44:46
  fiduciary responsibility to not hold critical information back.
• 44:53
  I'm sure Heather will have a technical term for that.
• 44:56
  So you need to speak up. And now remember though, it's
• 45:00
  also potential your opinion. So like way that way that.
• 45:04
  But here's the thing. When you're in these
• 45:06
  conversations with these VCs and PES, they know, they know
• 45:10
  someone is not cutting the mustard.
• 45:12
  They know someone needs to go. They know not every leader is
• 45:17
  going to make it through the next stage of business.
• 45:20
  That's why they're giving you money.
• 45:22
  They're giving you money to grow and invest your company, get new
• 45:25
  leaders. They already know someone's not
• 45:28
  going to work out, so you can take some pressure off and what
• 45:32
  they usually do, it happened a few different times.
• 45:34
  So I know this is a thing. I wish Haifa from the money
• 45:37
  episode was back on. They will say something to you
• 45:40
  and I'll be like a question like what opportunities are you
• 45:45
  seeing on your leadership team? And all they're trying to say
• 45:50
  see is like who needs to leave? And so you could just say, well,
• 45:54
  you know, our go to market motion is like going great.
• 45:59
  I think we're solid. We have some gaps on our
• 46:03
  technology team. I think we could use, you know,
• 46:06
  some coaching at the leadership level.
• 46:09
  You know it. Could be super sanitized way to
• 46:11
  say it. Yeah.
• 46:13
  And they are going to ask you. Yeah.
• 46:16
  Well, again, it's your opinion, but you're an owner, so you've
• 46:19
  got to say something. But they're going to ask you and
• 46:22
  they're going to tee it up for you.
• 46:23
  And they're going to do it privately over a dinner.
• 46:26
  And they're just going to be real adult about it.
• 46:28
  And so I don't think you have to be like super confrontational or
• 46:36
  combative about it is all I'm trying to say.
• 46:38
  I agree with that, but. They're not going to make it.
• 46:40
  They're going to be out. I would say yes.
• 46:44
  And the word you're looking for was disclosures.
• 46:46
  So as you're going through the process, you have to, you have a
• 46:49
  list of disclosures and if you violate those or they find out
• 46:53
  later that you did not make the appropriate disclosure or you
• 46:55
  lied in your disclosures that that can undo your deal.
• 46:59
  They can come back after you, they can sue you.
• 47:01
  The little bit of a difference here with VC versus Pete private
• 47:05
  equity is that you're still around.
• 47:07
  Presumably in this case, they're not buying you out, you're not
• 47:10
  moving on, you're still there. And so you're taking the
• 47:13
  investment on. So you're still needing to work
• 47:15
  with the CTO unless you call it out specifically.
• 47:19
  And then also you are put in a position if they're valuing
• 47:23
  where they're coming in at for the investment.
• 47:27
  The sticky part that I read in that was more, are we telling
• 47:31
  them that there's this gap or are we going to tell them later
• 47:33
  once we have the money in our pocket?
• 47:35
  And like, at some level, VCs have to trust the leadership to
• 47:39
  say, you know, here's where we think we can get to.
• 47:42
  And so how honest are you being upfront?
• 47:45
  Because it comes down to an opinion, Blakely, like you said,
• 47:48
  this is an opinion. These aren't necessarily facts,
• 47:51
  these are opinions. So I think if they do have the
• 47:53
  one-on-one, I think using the word opportunity is great.
• 47:56
  And you can say, look, I think we have some opportunity here to
• 48:00
  make this process better and potentially add another
• 48:02
  headcount to where you're kind of saying it, but you're not
• 48:05
  saying it, but you definitely don't want to lie and be like,
• 48:08
  it's great. He's awesome.
• 48:09
  We're the dream team later because then you're going to
• 48:12
  deal with like, to Blakely's point, it's it's all coming out
• 48:14
  Wash. Like they're going to find out.
• 48:16
  They're going to they're going to know how many people are not
• 48:19
  Yeah, that that will come out. And then also in your favor.
• 48:22
  It's kind of nice if you if you can give them a bit of a heads
• 48:25
  up, then the target isn't on your back when they do discover
• 48:28
  it. They can be like, oh, well, at
• 48:29
  least Blakely saw that. Like they can then respect that
• 48:32
  you actually saw that gap and weren't oblivious to it and
• 48:35
  thought everything was OK. Because if you're just putting
• 48:37
  your pie in the, you know, head in the sky, acting like, OK,
• 48:40
  we're all going to be fine, then that could come back against you
• 48:43
  as like a lack of judgement later to say, well, if she
• 48:46
  thought he was OK and we're learning he's not, then and what
• 48:48
  she really even bringing, you know, from that perspective?
• 48:52
  So, yeah, good question. Good question.
• 48:55
  Tough question. Yeah.
• 48:58
  And you're right, it's different at the BC stage versus the PE
• 49:02
  stage. Yeah, yeah.
• 49:04
  That's a nuance for sure. OK, performance review time
• 49:09
  before the Lightning round. How do you feel like you've
• 49:11
  done? You know, this is the first time
• 49:13
  we've tackled so many questions all at once.
• 49:14
  We kind of get into sticky situations episode by episode,
• 49:17
  but this has kind of been like an onslaught of just here's my
• 49:22
  situation help. How do you feel like you've done
• 49:24
  so far? You know?
• 49:27
  I'm going to let have lawyer headers.
• 49:30
  Probably shouldn't have made as many blanket statements as you
• 49:33
  did. Probably should have held back
• 49:37
  in a couple of opinions. What's a blanket?
• 49:39
  Statement it's it's like covering like saying all, you
• 49:44
  know, overstating over generalizing, you know,
• 49:47
  assumptions and made but otherwise pretty.
• 49:52
  I mean, I think we did pretty well BB plus.
• 49:56
  B Plus. What do you think, Blakely?
• 49:58
  Yeah. Well, considering my very first
• 50:03
  answer, I said try to separate fact from emotion and then I
• 50:05
  became the most emotional basket case on this episode.
• 50:09
  I gotta like stick with the bees, but I'm proud of myself
• 50:13
  for having an opinion on it all. We should do a swear count
• 50:17
  because Blakely never swears on the show.
• 50:19
  We should do a swear count like a little thing.
• 50:21
  Like thing thing thing every time.
• 50:24
  I just get really upset when I hear what happens to these
• 50:32
  folks. Like it just makes me really
• 50:33
  upset. It makes me mad when leaders
• 50:35
  don't care about culture the way they need to or they just skip
• 50:39
  it like it doesn't matter. Like people are just a they're a
• 50:42
  number on a spreadsheet. It's like, what are you
• 50:44
  thinking? These are people who actually
• 50:46
  have to execute on your vision. Care for them, value your.
• 50:49
  Brand are your people. That is what I always say.
• 50:52
  Your brand are your people. Likely I like your passion
• 50:56
  because you you're like, hey, there's another way to do this.
• 51:00
  You don't have to just do it the way that everybody else is doing
• 51:03
  it or that the way that you feel like you should do it.
• 51:06
  There's another way. I really appreciate them.
• 51:09
  Me too. I love.
• 51:10
  It. Lightning round, it's time.
• 51:13
  Ding, Ding, Ding. OK, let me like reposition keep
• 51:17
  it quick. And no time for lawyer on this
• 51:19
  one. I am actually taking off the
• 51:21
  referee hat and the time keeper hat and I'm letting each one of
• 51:26
  you decide when the other person is done.
• 51:29
  OK, what? So like you can understand the
• 51:31
  rules. I'm going to be like, enough,
• 51:32
  Blakely. Yeah, enough Blakely.
• 51:35
  Or you just jump in, interrupt and take over.
• 51:38
  OK. OK, I like that.
• 51:40
  OK, here we go. I love tuna fish.
• 51:42
  All caps love it. I'm bring it.
• 51:45
  Me too. I bring it for lunch at least
• 51:48
  twice a week. But I recently overheard someone
• 51:50
  complaining about whoever keeps sticking up the office with fish
• 51:56
  and now I'm paranoid It's me, Am IA monster.
• 52:01
  Do I have to give up my tuna? This feels like a hill I'm
• 52:05
  willing to die on, but I also want to be liked.
• 52:09
  That's the best question so far. OK, this is a real life story.
• 52:15
  It happened in my office. We had to call the fire truck 2
• 52:19
  times and evacuate the building because of natural gas smells,
• 52:24
  and it turned out it was a colleague's fermented pickled
• 52:28
  thing that she would bring into the office and eat at her desk.
• 52:32
  I don't know it smelled so bad, but it took us 2 full
• 52:37
  evacuations to figure out what it was.
• 52:38
  So I'm going to tell tuna fish lover because I'm also tuna fish
• 52:42
  lover. You take that stuff outside,
• 52:45
  maybe you can eat it in the break room, but don't take it
• 52:48
  into the main office, don't take it into the desk, do not heat it
• 52:51
  up. No tuna melts, no microwaving
• 52:53
  fish in a microwave, respectively and just.
• 52:57
  We got it. I got.
• 52:59
  I got fuzzed. Now I want to hear what you're
• 53:02
  going to say and just what. Not too much perfume either.
• 53:07
  Oh, oh, now we're adding airplane rules.
• 53:10
  Airplane rules, Airplane rules. Would you bring it on the
• 53:12
  airplane and sit next to it with somebody?
• 53:14
  No, Just airplane rules or office rules.
• 53:16
  Done. Leave it, leave it off.
• 53:19
  That was succinct. Yeah, onions I think are another
• 53:23
  tough one for people. I love onions, I love garlic,
• 53:25
  But you just got to understand other people.
• 53:27
  They just, it's tough. OK, number two of three, is it
• 53:34
  ever OK to date someone at work? Asking for a friend?
• 53:38
  OK, fine. Asking for me.
• 53:41
  Hell yes. I've got 3 rolls. 3 rolls.
• 53:44
  These are simple. Do not date anyone that is in
• 53:49
  your chain of command, up or down.
• 53:52
  Do not date anyone if your company explicitly has a policy
• 53:56
  that you may not date. Like the Arthur Murray Dance
• 53:59
  Studios and last night. No fractionization between
• 54:02
  teachers and students. And three, know yourself.
• 54:06
  So if when you get broken up with or dumped and you can be
• 54:11
  discreet and professional, OK. But if you're going to bring all
• 54:14
  the drama and like have to tell everyone about it, do not date
• 54:18
  someone at the office. Otherwise, yes, it's your social
• 54:21
  pool. It's like a dating pool.
• 54:23
  Go for it, have fun. Love it.
• 54:27
  I would say check your company policy.
• 54:29
  It's there's there should be. If it's a company that's worth
• 54:32
  their salt, they will have it in the handbook of whether or not
• 54:34
  it's allowed. If it is allowed, typically they
• 54:37
  ask for disclosure to HR and then they'll have you sign a
• 54:40
  waiver. And that's what we always had at
• 54:41
  cloud coach and it worked out well.
• 54:42
  And we've married like, I don't know, three couples at least out
• 54:45
  of out of cloud coach. It is your social networks and
• 54:48
  also if you tell HR if they in your if they are in your chain
• 54:51
  of command, vice versa, there could be things that are done
• 54:53
  like lateral moves and things that they can be, you know, done
• 54:56
  for HR reporting, reviews, compensation conversations,
• 54:58
  things like that can be worked around.
• 55:00
  So life is too short. If you if you find someone, be
• 55:04
  thankful and just be open about it and follow the rules.
• 55:07
  Yep, congratulations. Who has ever.
• 55:09
  Asked congratulations. There must be somebody OK.
• 55:11
  Final question. Great job.
• 55:13
  Yeah, people keep asking when I'm going to have kids in
• 55:17
  performance reviews. What?
• 55:20
  Yeah. Like ask them when they're going
• 55:22
  to have children. Oh, because they're trying to
• 55:24
  plan. They're trying to like, see who
• 55:27
  to give her promotion to and who not.
• 55:29
  Like you're going to get pregnant.
• 55:31
  Reported in the meeting to the Department of Labor.
• 55:34
  You're not allowed, You are not allowed to ask that question.
• 55:37
  It's against the law. Yeah, that's just a boundary.
• 55:40
  That's just a boundary. You just say, oh, I don't
• 55:41
  discuss that. We cannot ask you that question.
• 55:46
  The question is, I didn't even get to the question and you were
• 55:48
  arguing. We're in lightning.
• 55:50
  We're in lightning rod. I do need a drink after this.
• 55:53
  I need a glass of wine. OK, I agree.
• 55:56
  OK. We should.
• 55:57
  Question let's do an after hours episode.
• 55:59
  Let's do a little oh, that was we are going.
• 56:02
  To on the husband's episode. OK, viewers and listeners.
• 56:05
  People don't know about the husband's episode.
• 56:07
  Oh OK, I'm getting hot and bothered.
• 56:10
  You can't. Do that.
• 56:12
  That's AHR violation. I'm.
• 56:15
  She's naked again. I'm the naked lawyer.
• 56:17
  I'm taking off this take off. Oh my gosh you guys, how popular
• 56:20
  you would be on TikTok if you called yourself the Naked
• 56:23
  Lawyer? And you just gave.
• 56:24
  Legal advice on TikTok that is actually now our social media
• 56:27
  strategy. OK, for anyone just listening on
• 56:39
  Apple Podcasts, she is once again naked, bare shouldered
• 56:43
  with her hair covering her shirt.
• 56:45
  So she does have one, but you can't let me.
• 56:47
  Thank you for the. Description Could you take Could
• 56:49
  you take legal advice serious for me right now?
• 56:53
  Oh, but I could. I would always want a sexy
• 56:55
  Lincoln lawyer. And you can, as long as it's not
• 57:00
  against the company handbook. All right, did we answer the
• 57:02
  question? I don't know.
• 57:04
  No. We haven't even gotten to the
• 57:05
  question yet. But.
• 57:07
  Truthfully though, this is our social media strategy now.
• 57:11
  Or you do have to start an account called the Naked Lawyer
• 57:16
  and you basically give the naked truth.
• 57:18
  Like you you say, yeah, but you do have to wear a tank top that
• 57:23
  is a it's TikTok. I'm sorry.
• 57:24
  I don't make the rules. It's just that's what it is.
• 57:28
  OK, Sorry to our listener. Reviewer here's the question.
• 57:31
  How do I shut this down without making it awkward?
• 57:36
  I think we answered it. You just say like, yeah, like I
• 57:40
  don't how do. You.
• 57:43
  Say none of your business. Yeah, I just, I don't discuss my
• 57:48
  family planning at work. That's good.
• 57:52
  I like that. I mean, because accusatory would
• 57:54
  be like, I'm not sure that's appropriate question, but then
• 57:57
  that's accusatory if they don't want to make a big deal out of
• 57:59
  it. Just feels like I don't know.
• 58:01
  Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
• 58:04
  No one knows. But here's the deal.
• 58:06
  You don't know. You could plan.
• 58:08
  You don't know. You don't know.
• 58:09
  You don't know. I don't know.
• 58:12
  I don't know. OK.
• 58:13
  First of all, for all these questions we got in what are
• 58:16
  these companies? What are the, what are?
• 58:19
  They're all like this clay. They're.
• 58:21
  All like this corporate, corporate.
• 58:24
  Like I am surprised we only had what, 10 questions?
• 58:28
  I'm surprised we didn't have 10,000 questions like this.
• 58:31
  Like they're in fact bring on more because it's all like this.
• 58:35
  And that's what we're here to change.
• 58:37
  Like if we bring these conversations to the open, maybe
• 58:39
  they stop happening. Blakely where can people submit
• 58:43
  their questions so that we can talk about them on the show so
• 58:46
  that we can help? Yes.
• 58:48
  OK, so the like the most direct way is to go to our website,
• 58:52
  which is not all dot biz and you will see a forum where you can
• 58:56
  just submit your sticky situation.
• 58:58
  If you are very worried about being anonymous, there's also
• 59:01
  like a voice record button so you can leave us a voice memo.
• 59:04
  And so we try to make it as anonymous as possible.
• 59:08
  You can also e-mail us at podcasts at nodal dot biz.
• 59:11
  You can comment on any of our social and we'll pick it up on a
• 59:14
  comment. We will take these questions
• 59:16
  however you want to send them. We just obviously love them
• 59:20
  because it makes us. Riled up?
• 59:25
  Listen, all right? Blakely's Heather Blakely's
• 59:29
  Heather Blakely's heart rate goes through the roof.
• 59:33
  Heather starts creating characters like the naked lawyer
• 59:37
  on our show. Look at the innovation, the the
• 59:40
  creativity you know that comes from this.
• 59:43
  Send in your sticky situations, please.
• 59:47
  On our podcast, we have a tradition which is we share our
• 59:50
  smiles of the week. Something that made us smile.
• 59:52
  Something that brought us joy, that brought a smile to our face
• 59:57
  since the last time we all saw each other.
• 1:00:00
  Who wants to start? Who wants to go?
• 1:00:03
  I'm trying a blank. Does anyone have one that stands
• 1:00:07
  out to them? Yeah, this was a pretty good
• 1:00:10
  episode, Blakely. 'S having a fucking breakdown.
• 1:00:15
  I my smile of the week was handing out candy because I just
• 1:00:20
  love all the little trick or treaters that come around and
• 1:00:23
  they it just, they're so sweet. So that was mine.
• 1:00:26
  We sat out in the driveway fire roasted hot dogs.
• 1:00:29
  I was a hot dog, so I would did a little cannibal picture of me
• 1:00:33
  as a hot dog eating a hot dog. It's pretty great.
• 1:00:35
  I did see that picture, it was pretty funny.
• 1:00:38
  Thank you. Yeah, that was it for me.
• 1:00:41
  I won a raffle. You never win.
• 1:00:44
  Anything. Did you win at the diamond
• 1:00:46
  party? At the diamond party, Did you
• 1:00:48
  win diamond earrings? Shut the.
• 1:00:50
  Front diamond necklace. There's a there's a such a thing
• 1:00:54
  as a diamond party. What is a Diamond party?
• 1:00:59
  I went to the most elegant, beautiful, amazing party.
• 1:01:02
  It was it was the our jeweler who's been around for 20 years
• 1:01:08
  and they were celebrating their 20th anniversary.
• 1:01:11
  But you guys, if you know, we're our 20th annive wedding
• 1:01:15
  anniversary is next year. So if you do the math, we were
• 1:01:18
  one of their very first customers and they were like a
• 1:01:22
  young couple with a kid and they had a dog in their shop and they
• 1:01:25
  were just kind of like a hometown jewelry store.
• 1:01:27
  And we've just watched them grow into this most beautiful
• 1:01:31
  business with just I mean, their pieces are stunning and it's
• 1:01:35
  family run. I love a diamond stuff.
• 1:01:39
  I don't know. I don't know where Jake gets his
• 1:01:42
  diamonds, but I. Love.
• 1:01:45
  It's possible, but we went to their anniversary and they were
• 1:01:49
  having a raffle and they raffled off 3 of their pieces and you
• 1:01:53
  guys, I don't want anything like I'm not lucky like that and I
• 1:01:57
  won the grand prize. You did.
• 1:02:00
  We talked about it before you were going and you said that,
• 1:02:03
  oh, I'm happy for you. I'm happy for me.
• 1:02:06
  So now you do win stuff. You're a winner.
• 1:02:09
  I'm a winner. You're a winner and I was a
• 1:02:11
  Wiener. See.
• 1:02:14
  Like a smile of the week right there.
• 1:02:17
  My smile of the week was obviously that Blakely turned
• 1:02:21
  red in her chair and started cursing on her podcast.
• 1:02:26
  Furiously cursing. Furiously cursing.
• 1:02:29
  I think you said I'm so frustrated like 3 or 4 times.
• 1:02:35
  I just said Dick. She said what she said.
• 1:02:38
  So many. Bad words.
• 1:02:40
  I just you did. For the record, this podcast was
• 1:02:43
  your idea. My my smile for the week was
• 1:02:48
  with trick or treating. My son Emeris was Darth Vader.
• 1:02:50
  My wife made his costume, handmade his costume.
• 1:02:54
  Obviously, she's a genius. Yep.
• 1:02:56
  And then I, I had this idea that I try to take Halloween to the
• 1:03:03
  next level. And I was really, I get really
• 1:03:05
  nervous because I come up with a bunch of weird ideas that I'll
• 1:03:08
  never tell anybody. But then if I land on a really
• 1:03:10
  good idea, it does go well. And something did go well.
• 1:03:12
  I had the idea to every time emirs walked up to a house to
• 1:03:18
  trick or treat. Yeah, I got a, we have this like
• 1:03:22
  little portable karaoke machine and I queued up on my phone the
• 1:03:26
  Imperial March, which is the dark bum bum, bum bum bottom.
• 1:03:31
  And there's a lot of base. On this little thing, it pumps A
• 1:03:35
  pumps a jam, so I would hit play every time he would walk up.
• 1:03:39
  And the reactions from people handing out candy, you know,
• 1:03:45
  some people were like, oh, it's Darth Vader.
• 1:03:47
  And it made emers feel just amazing.
• 1:03:49
  It made him feel powerful. It made him like, feel like he
• 1:03:52
  was acting. And he eventually turned to me
• 1:03:55
  every, every house. And he's like, OK, cue the
• 1:03:57
  music. Cue the Really.
• 1:03:58
  Wanted it. Oh my.
• 1:03:59
  So that is. The and there was, there was.
• 1:04:03
  One guy, there was one guy who started doing the like force
• 1:04:08
  choke thing and so then emers like puts out his hand, you
• 1:04:12
  know, and it was just this really fun moment and it was so
• 1:04:17
  fun and it was just like playful and exciting and it made
• 1:04:20
  Halloween like awesome. And we got a couple of people
• 1:04:22
  who said that's the best costume.
• 1:04:25
  And obviously it was because Ray made it.
• 1:04:27
  And then the whole experience was the sound.
• 1:04:29
  Effects, I mean, yeah, I mean for sure.
• 1:04:32
  On it's a good fan as like as heartfelt as it gets.
• 1:04:35
  Yeah, it's a good Halloween. That's amazing.
• 1:04:39
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• 1:04:51
  another episode of Not All Business.
• 1:04:53
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• 1:04:55
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• 1:04:58
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• 1:05:03
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• 1:05:05
  today, so that we take them from out of the darkness into the
• 1:05:09
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• 1:05:10
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• 1:05:21
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