Latest / The b.reathe Blueprint Podcast / I Said Hi to Myself Again
Transcript
- Katie Harvey: Welcome to the b.reathe Conversations. This series explores how people operate as responsibility, ambition and pressure grow over time. These are not burnout stories and they're not about fixing anything. They're calm, honest conversations about awareness, capacity and what actually helps performance last. And today I'm joined by Kate. Thank you so much for being here. And how are you? Good. Kate Whitwam: No, my pleasure. Thank you for asking. I'm very well actually. I've just run through the job. I'm nice and changed. I'm relaxed. I've got my cuppa, so I'm ready to go. Katie Harvey: Perfect. Well you've got to have a cup of tea to be ready to go. Kate Whitwam: well, nice coffee, black coffee. It's my one I've had today, so we're okay. Katie Harvey: You're okay. Well, let's start with who you are and and what you do. Kate Whitwam: So my name is Kate Wickram. I'm based up in Huddersfield, which is in between Leeds and Manchester. For the last eight years, I've been transitioned from corporate across to property. We've been specializing in empty buildings back into family homes. So that's usually empty buildings, dilapidated ones, ones that just needed a complete full back to brick. I ended up without realizing structural issues, roof off and everything. So we just went for it. The house told me. needed to be so we've ended up with Byte Alerts, HMO but I love to focus on the older end so professionals and I really want to go later on into the elderly and then I've also got some service accommodation for contractors as well so yeah. Katie Harvey: Interesting. And how long have you been in the property space? Kate Whitwam: So I would say, well, it was 2018 after being made redundant that I found a classic route that we all get into a funnel. And I went into elite, elite legacy. I can't remember which way around it was now. Elite legacy training. That was 2018, 19, 20, 20. So I did the full lot. then it was 2019. I quit from corporate and then went into property doing it. just after COVID, so I started getting more in, but I did have a couple before I transitioned. Do Katie Harvey: Amazing. And how was corporate life compared to Kate Whitwam: you what, I actually enjoyed both, I really did. I used to work in human resources, so human resources management. So I started all the way from the administrator through to officer, advisor, I worked for companies like Fox's Biscuits, Cadbury's, I went down to Birmingham, so was up and down the lake, and Sanga Bound. It was really nice actually to Sankaban is a company that owns a lot of the different like Juicens and when I started then going into corporate, sorry into property after being in corporate, I met a couple of the people that I used to know through HR but in a different completely different roles setting up actually an account for you know the materials and things like that so it's been it's been we used to do more like change management HR so it was very much coming together bringing teams together and this is what we're currently doing, this is where we want to go and how do we bring everyone along that path. So things like change management, unfortunately is closing or starting sites, depending on which way the market was at the time. So I'd started that by the end of 20s, so that's 20 years of lots of different things in that area. yeah, it was good fun. Katie Harvey: Yeah, I can see you actually with the like bringing teams together, I can see you doing that very well. from knowing you over the last last year or so. I think Kate Whitwam: Yeah, and I really enjoyed working with the unions and you know even when I think about when I look back on my Facebook, I've got people that I've known, whether they're in the area or area manager role or like Tim down in Cabris down in Birmingham. I just thoroughly enjoyed it because the point is around listening to everybody as best you can to get a solution and just having a good think it's just having good listening cells, but also saying, well, we can't go that far. We can do this, you know, just listening. So there was a lot of time to break down a communication in between. And if you just give a bit more space to that and give him a much more time. Yeah. So when you're thinking around integrating something, it takes a lot longer than you think it's going to. So, yeah, that was good fun. Katie Harvey: Yeah, it's an interesting topic with communication actually is I just recently recorded a podcast with someone who helps kind of like burnout and preventing burnout in teams and he said that communication Kate Whitwam: Yeah. Katie Harvey: was one of the biggest factors because people just didn't feel like they could talk about it. Kate Whitwam: I think it's also being real and saying the elephant in the room quickly as much as you can. But there's always a journey to that because I know that one of the actually transitioning from corporate to property, you take yourself with you. And one of the key things I remember seeing a book that I started, but I didn't finish the whole lot, but the title stuck with me forever, which was What Got You Here Won't Get You There. And it's a very, it's a real key, which is around who you are as a person, how you come across, what's your... communication style, also triggers you and what sends you into frustration and what keeps you calm. And I think the biggest shift for me is becoming an entrepreneur or landlord, whatever level you want to call it these days. It's you, you have to learn thyself better than you ever did in corporate because you just, are the bottleneck. You are the one that's making the... ripples and the waves so whatever you do right or wrong it still lands with you so yeah it's been interesting. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and I can imagine that's quite the transition from working with a team to kind of working for just you. Kate Whitwam: Yes, yeah, and also then building a team because ultimately you come from, when you come into corporate, you come with the knowledge that you already have. even like with being in PE, you have some people that are already either builders, beaming construction or an architect, for example, or someone that's already lived in another kind of cash flowing business. They've already kind of learned all the other areas, all the subjects that you took for granted in corporate. So even just thinking around profit or loss account, zero, tax. Structure all those things you come with that knowledge. So you kind of come in at that level there ish But actually any of the any of the other departments that you never did you have to then go and learn all of that whilst doing Getting on the getting on with it So, you know, so I had to learn construction more so than you know, and then you have to build a team good teams bad teams learning curves and actually it's getting that flow of I think one of the things I've really recently is how you overextend I always used to give too much and not too much in a sense of. Yeah, I think it's more that count. You can say what you need to say without them being responsible for the other person's next steps, you know, and I think actually I was being accommodating and actually in that over accommodating, was the boundaries that was actually hurting me and having a knock on effect of my time, my mental health, all that kind of thing that went with it. So it's actually. Less is more. I know it's a classic motto or whatever, it's really everything just got so noisy. And actually, the more I got rid of the noise, the easier it was for me to say hi to myself again. And actually, when I said hi to myself again, and then it's that trust in that intuition that went with that, that then actually enabled me to have a better conversation with the next person I'm sat with because I'm listening to them in full. not being triggered or waiting to say what you need to say. It's actually letting go of what you need to say completely and asking more questions half the time. it was really, it's been a hell of a few years. I'll touch on some of them. So we've had a fire, we've lost, gosh, we've had all sorts. If you're going to have every issue go wrong. Katie Harvey: Yeah. Kate Whitwam: But the point is you do also, I think what do they say? The phoenix rise from the... rise from the ashes, as you say. Katie Harvey: Yes. Kate Whitwam: But also you do know who turns up the day after for you and who helps you through those things. And actually asking for help. Katie Harvey: Hundred percent. And I think that it's actually something a close friend of mine is going through at the moment. one of her close friends unfortunately passed away. And she says it's been a real shocker to see how many people haven't been there for her. Kate Whitwam: Yeah. Katie Harvey: and I think that unfortunately it's like the worst time as well to learn about people that aren't there for you. But unfortunately you do learn when people are there for you and when they aren't, when you do hit rock bottom. And that is a is a huge thing. And I I think some of it does stem from I think particularly women, actually, we're not very good at asking for help. We're not very good at Kate Whitwam: And I think also, yeah, I think it's as well, find, even with my clothes sometimes, think, she'll figure it out, or she might not want my help, or they feel like they're butting in, yeah, Katie Harvey: Yeah. Kate Whitwam: by asking. So because, because when you're in corporate, when you're younger, I mean, obviously, I've been doing quite a few bits of shadow work and understanding self, and I love subconscious, all that kind of realm of work. You grow up through your 20s, you... teens and everything and you create a persona of who you are and then you have to unpick that because you know it's got you to a certain point but then as you get older you have to let go of these things that actually end up damaging you more than they're helping you and I think one of the things working for yourself and then is you can't hide you cannot hide in any way shape or form you can't hide from the work that you have to learn or it's going to fall down because it is totally on your shoulders everything everything Yeah, now it doesn't mean that you shouldn't pick it. It just means then when you are, when you actually realize how you, I was always seen as the responsible one within my family. I created the role. literally was the one who looked after my, my mom, my brother, you know, just how do we fix that or we'll sort that out and I could coordinate. But the problem with that was, is I realized by the time I got to one, two o'clock, when everybody else's stuff, not mine. Yeah. Katie Harvey: Yeah. I I definitely relate to that. I I don't know if you've read my book, but it's in my book about being the capable one. Yeah. It's Kate Whitwam: just saw you on Monday, so I've got it my list. Katie Harvey: bit becoming the capable one. And actually what I've it it tends to be it's very much by accident. So you don't mean to take on that role, but I grew up in a house with a brother, a dad and a mum, which was great. But as a female I s naturally took on that role whenever if my mum wasn't well, I would take on the motherly things. And it it wasn't because anyone actually put it on me. I think it's like a you grow up learning these roles and responsibilities. As much as they aren't actually taught that way, it's what you witness, it's what you see. And Kate Whitwam: becoming so conscious. Katie Harvey: that's it's a massive thing. I was always asked about it in construction when I was on the tools, is why do you think there's not more Kate Whitwam: We'll be back. Katie Harvey: women in business? And I'm like, Because from a young age, they aren't shown about women in business or women in construction, they're shown that that's what the the the men are doing, all of the adverts, it's all men. And it's not that people are doing it purposely. It's just kind of what's happened. Yeah. Kate Whitwam: Google email messaging. And I think that my dad was in the, both my dad and my brother was in the trade. So I even remember the young baby photos of me sat on, know, Breesboro blocks in my dad's garden, you know what mean? So even then I remember the construction sites when my dad was doing it. But I wanted, by going into corporate and I... I loved the HR viewpoint because you're able to see what's the organizational goals. Where are we heading? You know, actually, how do we then move every department on that path? So I wanted to learn how business worked, but you don't actually learn how, yes, you can be in a large company and you can learn how they work. But then when you go down to your own, you can come. Yeah, there's a lot of new steps before you get to anything that big, but it does help you be strategic. So it's almost like you can. You have to be operating here in order to then kind of bring yourself up to that strategic thinking that where you know where you're to go, but in between, you still got to mistakes because you brought yourself with you and then you to unlearn those mistakes and also then grow into the person that can hold what you're asking for. Because I think that's you have to become a different human to become what you're going to then deliver later. Not in a personality way and that kind of thing. It's more just boundary understanding and getting to play, you know, and I think karma, the biggest one for me was if I got triggered by anything, I knew instantly that was my work. That was where the work I needed to go because ultimately by being triggered by somebody else, you've given your power to somebody else. And actually, I don't want to be triggered. Why have, so then you go underneath the trigger and see, well, what's the belief that sits underneath that? And that belief that sits underneath it might be a few layers down. You could then have to upgrade that belief. Yeah, I remember when I first came out, I don't know how I've done it, but every year I don't know how I've done it. But anyway, we keep going. And it's like this first year, I think I left corporate on my last contract, for example. I don't know, with £3,000 in my savings. Yeah. And I had three houses, all the bills were covered because I was living in one of the HMO rooms. Yeah. That's how, you know, to me, literally went for it. And then 2019, we... I started putting, I got my first investor and then I got offers out and then I think I got seven offers accepted in within that year. And then all of a sudden the year after they all start coming through. So I think I got five in six months, ping, ping, ping, ping. But, and there was a lot of kind of balancing when money came in versus what finance you went with and things like that. So I was quite good at doing finding houses and matching up with the investment. But then ultimately we did one that doubled its value, but then. We did another which was on exchange with delayed completion. And just after that Christmas, it burned down. You can't write this stuff. So like the house next door had a growing hit which is unfortunate, but they do happen. I think somebody said once as soon as you've had a situation like that, you become a seasoned investor because it's part of the process, think, unfortunately. that house next door then. So the money that was sat within that which was meant to be refinanced out didn't get refinanced out because obviously... gone or burnt down and then we had to work out that money was then due to do to others that had already got. So yeah, so there was this constant, you know, so but in that it's how you actually build a team under that uncertainty under that each, you so I started learning how to do it. I did my own chimneys in that beginning part. Honestly, was up at mum, I rang my mum and said, mum, know, what are you doing today? Would you mind? doing a chimney with me. Literally, we had Andrew inside painting. He's watching me and my mum go up down the scaffolding. She's passing me the mixing, the mortar and everything. And do you know, ultimately, yes, going from corporate to doing something like that. I wouldn't change it for the world. Does that make sense? Yeah, the stripping out, the camaraderie of the people coming together, the building something with the vision that's yours. I'm a creator as like I'm a mechanic, create and start. I just love all of that. Seeing your vision come into. But in property, it's not just construction and property, it's actually the finance. It's the setting it up structurally right. And then where is it heading? So there's a lot to learn in that journey. So I've gone on a waffle. You do, you do. Katie Harvey: Yeah. Yeah, you you become every department, don't you? Like and and some of them are great. Like I love some of the departments and I would do that for free for anyone any day. Like I'd love it. But then like for me Yeah, if I just delete that part But then you've got Kate Whitwam: I'll keep you to that. Katie Harvey: like some of the like finance. Finance has never been my I don't really like it. I like it simple. I like it easy. I've got a team now that provide it to me really simple and easy. But without them, I absolutely hate that part. But I still had to learn how to either recruit someone to do it or how to do it myself. I went with the recruitment because it would have taken me a very long time to understand it. Kate Whitwam: Yeah. Katie Harvey: and I think that that, like you said, it's part of the journey, is there's always a lesson Kate Whitwam: next. Katie Harvey: to be learned, but equally you can't. I'm a big believer in you do have to go through those times Kate Whitwam: moment to assemble. Katie Harvey: to actually be able to build the business. It's it's Kate Whitwam: Mm-hmm. Katie Harvey: not it's not always easy, but you have to have you become more what's the word, resilient the more that you go through. It's like something Kate Whitwam: course, definitely. Katie Harvey: happens now and I'm like, another thing. Whereas two years ago I'll be having a meltdown. Kate Whitwam: But you know what my biggest one is? Well, this is the thing and I don't actually like it when I'm like, you know, you've got the knot in your stomach or you've triggered or you're frustrated or your feelings feel off. I'm too much aware of how great it feels to be aligned. So if I know that's how great it feels to I want to be there as much as possible. Right. So when you get triggered, want to deal with it, but actually not rush it. I've had a lot of things happen where I know I've had to grieve because it hurt. didn't just, you know, it didn't just get you angry or anything. It's actually hurt. And so because it hurt, didn't, you you can't rush your body and hide that in your body. You've got to still go through the process of releasing it, understanding it, releasing it, and then come back through to how do you deal with it? You know? But yeah, I remember when the fire happened and my friend rang me. She says, you all right you all right and then so i think it was 10 minutes later so at that point i'm gonna bring you back so was crying at that point and then 10 minutes later it's all right it's all right i've got a plan i've got a plan i know it's my responsibility but if anything if all fails i'm gonna be a truck driver she just literally started the howling so okay sorted at least you got his backup plan Katie Harvey: Yeah. And do you know what that is part of the thing, like I've had Yeah, I've had so many situations I was actually speaking to my brother earlier. It seems around this time of year every year where something kind of happens that throws me off a little bit. I think I tend to ignore the universe's signs quite a lot and then I get shoved in a position that I don't want to be in. and that seems to happen a fair amount to me. not but I'm still I I I can see the signs, I just choose to ignore them. Kate Whitwam: dude. It's really honest. Katie Harvey: until I'm until until I'm there. But I do believe in that and every year around this time something starts happening. but I I said to Josh, I said for some like although I'm upset about everything that's going on, I said every single year without fail I've figured it out and I've unlocked a new level. So I know now, I've built that confidence and that proof in myself that I will figure it out. But it doesn't Ca like you said, like even though you're aware of all of this stuff, you still have to go through the process of grieving. You still have to go through that Kate Whitwam: gosh. Katie Harvey: process of feeling. And I think too many people try to shut that out. When actually if you just accept it, go through it, you'll be able to learn the lessons and become a better person off the back of it. But if you shut it out, Kate Whitwam: definitely. Katie Harvey: it comes out in other forms, in illnesses, in aggression, in anger, and no one wants that. Kate Whitwam: No, no. I mean, when was that now? It happened in 2022. And we saw that in 23, 24, I can't remember now, because we had lots going on in each of the years. So, you know, they were a while ago, but then the other things that we're dealing with now, which is this year has been a very good tidy and tick without realizing, although Katie Harvey: Yeah. Kate Whitwam: it was extremely difficult, you know, so getting every single duck in a row, we've even moved. home officially because I got married three years ago. And Katie Harvey: Congratulations. Kate Whitwam: actually, we're now got the residential sorted and ready. So it just feels like we're tidying things up. I just know we've got two more big hurdles. Once we get over those, you know, I want to be able to do work through and everything I'll choose going forward is very different to what I have been doing and the way we will operate. It's just I think I called this year. hurdles and horizons because it was always very much around we've got hurdles we can't deal we've got to get on with those operationally get on with each one of them but then I was always working on the horizons of what's coming in the future which is the exciting stuff so yeah yeah Katie Harvey: I like that. Although I think you it it's being self aware, isn't it? But I guess that's also taken you some time to get to that part of where you are, the person you are now, and it's taken a lot of learnings. Is there any like top tips that you would give people that are maybe going Kate Whitwam: Yes. Katie Harvey: through that journey themselves? Kate Whitwam: The biggest one that helped me was actually using ChatGPT. I love AI anyway, but just on the normal chat side. But if you have a certain guru that you love to listen to, for example, mine were, and I'd highly recommend anyone wants to listen to these people, Alan Watts, he's a philosopher. The other one is Carl Jung. Now it's actually spelled J-U-N-G. He talks about the shadow work. It looks like Jug, but it's not. It's Carl Jung. He's a psychotherapist, I think. That's the title he is. But then we've also got Peter Krohn. These guys are just wonderful. But the point is, if you have somebody that is a specific name that you like, and you want to know how they would respond to a certain question that you have, I would always put it in and actually say, is kind of like, so shadow work is what Carl Jung does. And said, this is a scenario that's happened. This is how I'm feeling. This is how would Carl Jung on the integration and individualization work, how would he actually respond? And actually I feel like I'm getting the best gurus out there responding back to me because they're actually reading all the work. And actually I just had a free therapist that actually helped me understand some of the things that I was doing. I'm wow, would it mean I was over-functioning in that area? And the other side of that is if I'm over-functioning in high delivery, I'm not resting properly. I'm not even allowing myself to rest. I'm not even allowing myself to be creative without having to think I need to monetize it. Whereas I actually love to create without needing that. But that's my childlike element that's been hidden. And I think sometimes that ability, I would love to just sit and read books all day. And then I'm literally, am the biggest, like when we had lockdown, there was a lot going on, but I enjoyed that solidarity of being just in my room on my own 16 hours learning. I am the biggest geek there is. And that, that creative juices that were flowing, but life does not allow me to do that. Current or hasn't been able to. And I think my body said, I want more of it. And so it's getting this, it's telling me off. because I was over-fortunate and so it was making me slow down, but actually not when my business needed me to slow down. Do you know what mean? So therefore you had to find other people to help me and actually delegate better, but in Katie Harvey: Yeah. Kate Whitwam: a clearer way with more intention. So yeah, there was a lot of learning around all of that, but my big tip is find the people that you're gurus, because everyone likes different people and they resonate with different schools of thought. I'm a social scientist and pop their name in. and always just ask them, I'm punching your feelings. But allow your feelings to go through that process. And then when you are triggered on a feeling, try and work out what is the belief underneath. And I always find AI is quite a good place to do that with, you know, in the lockdown place, because it allows you to then, okay, is that the belief? And then it allows you then to put another one in. You Katie Harvey: Yeah. Kate Whitwam: have to upgrade it. Katie Harvey: like that and that's actually so it's I I do something quite similar but not quite with other people. So I went through a in like journaling time, cave time within the property entrepreneur year, Kate Whitwam: Yeah, right. Katie Harvey: I will look at what I want my future self to look like, what that person looks like. And then I actually say like how what do I need to do for to reach my future self in this situation because I can't seem to unlock that and that's always quite good. But I really like the idea of using other people actually. I'm gonna gonna give that a go. And something else that you mentioned there was about how you like your creative side. Your creative side is always the best when your nervous system is comfortable, relaxed and actually reset. And it's something that my yeah I don't know if you you know I did I started therapy earlier on in the year. And I remember one Kate Whitwam: Yeah, you said. Katie Harvey: of my biggest things was I kept saying to my therapist I was like I start a task and then I get into something else and then I end up building this whole thing that isn't relevant to anything, but I feel really good Kate Whitwam: I'm Katie Harvey: doing it, but I feel like I'm wasting time. And she literally just said to me, She went, Allow your space to have the creativity, because that's when you're free-flowing. And I was like, She just said, Yeah, she was like, you don't Kate Whitwam: Yeah, you allowed it. Katie Harvey: need to feel guilty for that. Like you're still getting your work done. And I was like, I think I just needed someone to give me permission to not feel guilty about doing something that wasn't benefiting any of the businesses, but it was benefiting me. And that's quite hard sometimes. Kate Whitwam: I had exactly the same but slightly different it was. Time had to be useful for me. And if I didn't feel that it was being useful, then my nervous system would literally, my nervous system is not me, my body would literally hormone wise to say, I need to get out and carry on being useful. And I didn't know my body was doing that. So, and it's literally as simple as sitting with somebody in the middle of the day having a cup of coffee. Yeah, I could be like literally with my hands saying. I've got all these things to do. I can't be sat here just sitting and having this conversation. Yeah, I've got stuff to do. But that was a nervous system thing that I had to change in me, but I didn't know it was there. And I learned that in January just this year. Yeah. But because I was aware of it and I realized then that that now then it was a piece of shadow that I needed to work on. I was then able to name it, get rid of it and change the belief of it. And literally to operate from the choice now is to operate from calm. and as much as possible. so that Katie Harvey: Yeah. Kate Whitwam: calmness, because I think that it was what Peter Crone said, he said something on the lines of we aren't a victim of our circumstance, we are a victim of our perception of it. I'm surprised that Katie Harvey: Okay. Kate Whitwam: I got all of that correctly and it came out properly. But the point was, it Katie Harvey: That's pretty good. Kate Whitwam: is actually what house, you know, we can only really look at something properly when we remove ourselves. and our emotions from it. you'd be as objective as possible. Katie Harvey: Yeah, it it and it's so true. I mean, I had to have a difficult conversation just this morning and I actually did some breath work before I went into it because I didn't want my not that I think that emotions are bad and should be suppressed, but I know Kate Whitwam: Bye. Katie Harvey: that I make rash decisions when I'm emotional and I'm aware of that. So I had to kind of rein in my emotions and just go in it like point blank, factual, keep it keep it simple, keep it calm. And actually being calm under pressure and being able to bring yourself into that state is a real skill. I find breath work really helps for me. I don't know if you have a technique that helps you get into a into a karma state as well. Kate Whitwam: Mine is remember to breathe. I'm joking. Katie Harvey: Yeah. Kate Whitwam: My family say like, did you breathe then, Kate? was like, found it. Katie Harvey: Ha ha ha Kate Whitwam: There were a bit of that, but then actually I do have a basic practice now. But yeah, it's actually, I find with it, there's box breathing. Do you know, the biggest one for me was segment, I use this word segmentation. I think it was, I can't remember who said it. Abraham Hicks, my. heard of Abraham Hicks is a lady called Esther over in America anyway she talked about when you get into the car that's one segment when you get out of the car that's another segment if you have a phone call that's a segment everything is broken up into segments and so say like you're having a meal with three friends and another person comes over now that's another segment because it's another energy that's added into it so it's always about the energy so say that you have a bad phone call and then you carry that segment into the next That's when we have this, I don't know, verbal diarrhea or knock on effect of emotion or catalyst of a bad day rather than actually catching the bad moment. And the breath work for me is as soon as you can observe the different segment by your awareness of observing self, that's when you can breathe. This is now a new segment. And how do I want to show up to that? And actually that is literally, it's just as simple as that. How do I want to show up to that? Because For example, coming home after a really long day, getting into the kitchen and seeing that it's still a mess. You everyone's had a long day. You know, and we're kicking off about the fact that not done. It's not going to help anyone in the family, is it? My intention is to come into the house and make sure when everyone gets home, they're having a warm, after, know, like loving kind of space. So I think it was that really changing how I wanted to show up via segments. And the more I did it, the more I sat in an observing self. I think that's the key because, you know, say there's A and B in a conversation and A says something and the other one gets triggered by it. As soon as you can move yourself into awareness, you aren't no longer in that emotion anymore. You're observing it so that you can choose at that point. that's what I, as soon as my mum taught me that in the kitchen, it was, know, like when you get these pearls of wisdom from different places, but actually it becomes a model that you take on. I think she Katie Harvey: Yeah. Kate Whitwam: must have taught me that about two, three years ago and it's... always helped me because even if you sit in reaction you can stop at any point as soon as you observe self and then you can choose a different path and I think that's just something that I found really helpful. Katie Harvey: Well it makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? 'Cause it's it's one of those things when you have a bad thing happen, then five things happen and then all of a sudden you're having an entire bad week and it's like a you you n you actually have to consciously cut off the badge, which is exactly Kate Whitwam: Cut. Katie Harvey: what you're saying. And the the way you've just described it, I've never heard it described like that. And that's exactly I think I do that, but I don't explain it like that. Yeah, it's Kate Whitwam: It seems easy. Katie Harvey: I like the the whole segmentation and actually having them as Kate Whitwam: It's it's tough not one word. Yeah. I think it's, it worked for me because I like the word, but if you find whatever that catches you to say, observe, you know, you can always have your own trigger or a hook or an anchor as people call it. But as soon as you observe yourself, you can actually, I've stopped myself halfway through conversations. I'm literally speaking, stop. Because I knew I'm speaking from reaction rather than response. And I actually want to slow it down, slow me down and then respond better. and with more understanding and care and consideration, you know, for both parties or all parties involved, because a lot of the time, everyone's dealing with a lot. love, I remember seeing this, was in Pinterest, I love Pinterest. There's a big circle and then this tiny little circle in the inside. That's how much you know of the other person's life. Katie Harvey: Yeah. Kate Whitwam: Yeah. And so don't talk to, you know what mean? That, just do as much kindness as possible on that, the fact that that's all you know about that circle. And that's all. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and I think that taking into consideration other people as well is is super important because firstly you don't know what they're going through, but also you don't know what they've ever been through. So something that might seem really tiny and small to you may be the worst thing that's ever happened to them. And Kate Whitwam: Thanks. Katie Harvey: we can't compare our bad days to someone else's because they're they're based on completely different realities and lives. And it it is so true, you have to speak to everyone with respect. And so many times you see people get into arguments and heightened conversations for absolutely no reason. And it could have just been the simple you've upset me in this way. I don't like it. Okay, noted, won't do it again. Kate Whitwam: Yeah, exactly. And also, I really like as well as much joy and playfulness and fun as possible because I think the thing is life's too serious a lot of the time, you know, and I think actually, you know, you'll be, you'll know if the banter on the science, I enjoy it. I think it's great, you know, and actually that is where they get enjoyment and relaxation away from the stresses of you don't bring enough money home or whatever it is that they might get, know what mean? There's a lot going on for everyone. And if you can make a great place to work or a great conversation or a bit of joy when you go to a Boulders Merchants, I think that's better. Katie Harvey: Definitely. Well, you've shared some real, really good, like really good tips today and I'm hoping people will take that on board. Is there any final things that you would like to say to someone who is potentially transferring from corporate to business or actually just going through a state of change where they recognise that they've kind of got to let go of their old self to move into their new self? Kate Whitwam: Yeah, I would say go for it, but also find a community to do it with. I really do find that actually the more you find groups in the area, just someone to talk to, ask questions. I mean, if you're going from clubs, there's FSB, which is like the bigger ones and you've got lots of meetups. But ultimately, wherever you are, even like there's quite a few ladies have done book clubs, you just get a social element that goes with it. And I think don't do it in silo. Don't don't. I think we don't, actually I think real conversations, to have a real conversation you have to be vulnerable. And I find that there's a lot of journeys that we go through of through building conversations and network through ego. And actually ego is where you just, this is what you've done, this is what I do, this is, and it's quite high level conversation and connection. I prefer real conversations that is, this didn't work, but I've learned this. Yeah. This still isn't working. Have you got any ideas? And so then bring people together. I just want to leave on this thing. I heard it recently, which was I have made mistakes, but I aren't the mistake. Yeah, because actually, I think a lot of the time when you go through making mistakes, you identify them as you. And that's just not, I don't do that. Just get on and make some math. Just do them better next time. you know what I mean? Yeah. Katie Harvey: Well, you learn from them, don't you? And I think that the as long as you learn from them, you implement the next time, you're gonna make endless mistakes in life. Some of them are gonna seem more w worse than others. But that's just life. And yeah. Kate Whitwam: They're the best ones. Yeah. Was it Rene Brown that said about the man in the arena? I think I love that. So I would always if anybody listened to Rene Brown's Man in the Arena, it's a poem that's fascinating. Yeah, and I think it's it's a good one if you haven't heard it. Katie Harvey: Noting that down. Kate Whitwam: on TED Talks. Katie Harvey: I love a good TED talk. Kate Whitwam: I love them, have a father's tape to them. Katie Harvey: Yeah. Kate Whitwam: miss them as well. Katie Harvey: Well, thank you so much for joining and also sharing your perspective so openly. I think that conversations like this exist to normalise experiences that a lot of people go through quietly as life and responsibility grow. And like you've said, ego comes into it sometimes. We don't want to share the vulnerabilities, but I think you shared it beautifully today. If anything in the episode landed, make sure you subscribe, listen to our other conversations, and if anyone wants to get hold of you, how can they do so? Kate Whitwam: LinkedIn, I've got a profile on there but feel free to reach out. Katie Harvey: Perfect. And if you found it useful, leave review and share it with someone who needs to hear it because that is how we grow. Thank you very much, Kate, for joining me and Kate Whitwam: you. Katie Harvey: I will see everyone next week.