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25 | Dating as a Practice Ground for Self-Trust · The Messy Middle Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Messy Middle, the podcast for women navigating the raw, confusing, lonely aftermath of narcissistic abuse and emotional control.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Erica Leon, trauma-informed abuse recovery coach, mom of five, and creator of the six keys to unfuck with the ball.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you're picking up the pieces, questioning everything, and trying to remember who the fuck you were before you were so carefully erased, you're in the right place.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back everyone.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Time for another episode.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: This one is about dating as a practice ground for self-trust.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to get into why the approach you take to getting back out there is almost more important than what you do.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So let's kick off.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, and I have been teaching people this from my own experience for more than a decade, by the way.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if you think like this already, then excellent.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: And let's see if we can dive into it a bit deeper.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: So after you've been through all of this nightmare that you have likely been through, you probably wouldn't be listening to this.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's usually a way of approaching dating, and it feels like a test.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you're going down endless thought-looping rabbit holes that are slightly negative.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Your inner critic is really up there.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Am I gonna get this right this time?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Am I going to miss something again?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Am I gonna be taken in by another liar who has a mask?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Am I going to end up back in the same place as I was?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that pressure can really make the whole thing feel heavy before it's even started.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And your nervous system might have some kind of reaction to that, whether that be freeze or just really wanting to go back inside and not do much of anything.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say the dating apps seem pretty chaotic and awful, and probably getting worse all the time, but there is still something to be gained from it, and it's probably not what people go into dating for usually, because every interaction feels like it matters so much, it's overwhelming, and you're constantly going down the rabbit hole again of criticizing yourself.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So much self-inventory, it can turn into like you're trying to prove something, and often you are, you're trying to prove to yourself, you're being very vigilant about who you're choosing, you're looking out for red flags, pink flags, and it just becomes a whole production, like work.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: It shouldn't really be work.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I would encourage you and anyone to shift what you think dating is for.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And something that can really change everything is adjusting that perspective before you go into it.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of thinking this is where you meet your person, this is where you find Mr.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Mrs.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: or anybody right, that just completely change that viewpoint.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of finding the right person, it just becomes learning to stay connected to yourself while you're with other people.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I like to think of it as a social experiment, just going out there and seeing what you can do.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's really fun to also meet other people and see what you can make of them while you're there with them, either talking to them on the phone or in person.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Just learning, information gathering, and meeting some nice people at the same time.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: You will have some bloopers for sure.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: You do have to kiss quite a lot of frogs and frogettes, for sure.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: But perspective of this is not about finding my person.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is about learning to stay connected with me while I'm with other people.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm honing my observation skills.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm honing what my gut says about the person and what their words are saying and how that's landing.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: There is a wealth of information that you can get from dating as long as you don't put all of the expectations that we usually do on it.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So less of are they the one?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is this going somewhere?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is this worth my time long term?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Just really very micro.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Can I hear myself in this situation?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you're on a date or you're talking to someone, and instead of focusing fully outward on them, on how it's going, on what they think of you, you just bring some attention back to yourself.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do I feel relaxed right now?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Am I editing myself?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Did I just laugh at something that didn't feel funny?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Am I doing any people pleasing here?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Or do I actually want to be here?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: These questions, this kind of awareness does change everything.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: It changes those interactions because you stop disappearing into the situation, into this interaction between you and the date.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you ask, what is my gut saying?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: What's my gut saying about the words matching up with how this is landing for me?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Are they convincing?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do I buy it?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Are they somebody that I want to actually be here with?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And do you remember the yes and no practice that we did in some other episodes?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's certainly in the six keys somatic course, if you have that.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: But we use it as a guide to what feels like a yes, a solid truth in your body and what lands authentically, and uh differentiate between what feels like rehearsed nonsense or someone just trotting out what they think you want to hear, usually with a big dose of stereotyping thrown in, let's face it.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really important to connect with your body and your nervous system.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're able to step out a little bit into a third position space and just observe the interaction also, it can just be a wealth of knowledge that you gain and little ways that you learn to relate differently.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the important moments that you have in these situations aren't big, and they probably weren't big when you were getting into your relationship that ended in a disaster.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're small.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're little times that you've overridden yourself, you've abandoned or betrayed yourself, you've said yes when you really went no, or you've gone along with something to keep things smooth.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: You don't say something because you don't want to create the awkwardness, you don't want to have somebody think badly of you, or you think there might be something coming that's a downward spiral or a punishment.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you often minimize a feeling because it seems like someone would consider that too much.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And those are the moments where your self-trust either builds or erodes.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure you can look back on your narcissistic and or abusive relationships, and you can kind of see the tide was turning and remember some of those bigger moments, but the small ones are quite hard to recall because that's how it works, that's how it gets you in the quicksand to start with.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's very small microaggressions, micro overrides of yourself, your compass, if you like.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And dating does give you a lot of those moments.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you really learn observancy to this degree and do lots of it, it can only do well for you.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of women do go into dating slightly in performance mode.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: I have observed many times.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's really without realizing, but that old thing that we have all been taught to be agreeable, to be easy, to be low maintenance, to try and be the cool girl or whatever, trying to create a good experience, trying to be liked.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's often something that was reinforced in past dynamics between women and men.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: But if dating becomes a place where you're performing again, you are going to lose yourself again.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: So part of the practice here and what you can get really good at, and what I think dating is so helpful for is letting yourself be seen more honestly.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Even if that feels really unfamiliar and uncomfortable, and maybe makes you totally queasy, it's a really good thing to practice.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: The sky is not gonna fall down when you disagree with someone, and you learn a lot about whether you want to see a person or not, from how they react to things that they either don't agree with, or you see exactly who they are if you piss them off.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a really important thing to get good at letting these small moments of discomfort exist.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Not just immediately rushing to smooth everything over.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I didn't mean that, that's okay.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, don't worry, I was changing your opinion just for them.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: If there's a pause, let there be a pause.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you disagree with something, let that just be there, it's okay.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if something doesn't quite land, you do not have to fix it.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: It is not your job to fix it, or anyone actually.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that is how you start seeing how the person actually responds.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And what's the point of going into a potential relationship of any kind with a mask on yourself?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Most likely, in that situation, you would attract somebody to you who recognizes the qualities of the mask, not your true self.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that can only bring some weird things down the road.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And how you respond is important too.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope you're out in public when you're dating, of course, especially if you're just meeting someone.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you have all the safety things covered.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like someone knows where you are, you ask for the person's ID.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is extremely important.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: So make sure you're safe.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And as you're in public, ask potentially tricky moral issue questions and see how someone reacts.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Speak about human rights or women's rights or violence against women.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Then look.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Look at them.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see a bulging vein or a tight mouth or a twitch or are they rolling their eyes?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do they talk about feminism and they spit the word out when really it's just about the crazy radical notion that women are people?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do they say their exes are crazy?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, do they say they want a woman who will obey a man?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because if so, girl, you gotta run, you know it.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: They will not value you as a human, they basically just want a maid, a cook, and a a sex doll.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a little aside, looking for the red flags.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: But also really important is after.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And this is such a useful piece of information, and I want you to always practice getting in touch with how your body feels.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so after you leave, how do you feel?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Not just during, but after.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel settled, or do you feel like you need to replay everything?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like yourself or like you were slightly off, like you were fitting yourself to be a shape, a pretzel knot of some kind, so that someone would like you.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: That after feeling tells you a lot about whether you stay connected to yourself or not, and how this person might shape up in your future.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Not that that is the primary goal here, but I want you to get good at this discernment because it will serve you so well in every single area of your life, not just this, it's all about knowing you, knowing you so well and using that magical intuition that you all have.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And also, it is not about getting it perfect.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: We are taught perfectionism and it is insanity, but you're not going to get every interaction, quote unquote, correct.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're not going to spot everything instantly.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: That is not the goal here.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: The goal is that you're just paying attention now.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're noticing yourself in the process, you're staying connected to yourself, you're using your skills and all of these little hacks that we've been learning.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And over time, that really does build something more solid than just trying to avoid every possible mistake because that shit is hard to drop after you've been in a relationship where every single move you make is heavily criticized and you're blamed for your own abuse, and you're actually us sitting there thinking, What did I do?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: I could have done that differently.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: We want to get away from that.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: So dating doesn't really have to be a test you pass or fail, it can just be a place where you practice staying with yourself, chatting shit, where you notice where you drift, where you come back, trying things that you haven't tried before, asking questions that you think might be a bit inflammatory to see how somebody reacts, where you just build trust really in your own responses.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: You gather data, you do the social experiment, and the more you do it, the clearer everything else seems to become.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not because you found the perfect person, you may well do, and good for you.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love that for you.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it's really just because you've stopped losing yourself in the process, throwing yourself at the mercy of someone else so they like you, bending over backwards, not saying the things you really mean.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: All of that is an absolute fuck no.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: After you've been through what you've been through, the very least you deserve is to be your damn self.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I want you to think of it just as it is.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a numbers game.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, you're going to have probably to go on a lot of dates or speak to a lot of people to gather a few really good ones.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just information gathering.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're supposed to fuck it up.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's just an experiment, you're supposed to find lots of ways to fail in it, and it's also just a chance to get to know some really cool people as a result.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because you will, and one of them will be you.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: So let me know how you get on, and as always, ask me any questions you want, and I will make a dedicated episode to all the answers.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sending you so much love.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Be safe out there though, okay?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Have fun with it, but be safe.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.