Latest / The Kink Consultant / Ep 11 – Paws and Play: Understanding Puppy Play with Pup Locrian

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Ep 11 – Paws and Play: Understanding Puppy Play with Pup Locrian · The Kink Consultant

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It's the King Consultant podcast where we're turning up the heat
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on all things kink and dating, relationships and pop culture.
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So close the door, plug in your headphones, and let's get down
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to it. Hello everybody, and welcome to
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this week's episode of The King Consultant.
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I am super excited to bring on this week's guest welcome Pup
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Lokryan. Hey pup.
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Hi, so good to be here. Thank you for having me on.
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Are you kidding? Thank you for coming on.
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I was really excited about this week's episode.
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Yes, I'm excited too. Can I call you PUP or would you
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prefer me to call you Lokryan? Either is fine, most of the time
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people just say pup or lokryan so I respond to either.
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That's really funny because as I was talking to my friends about
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you, I kept referring to as pup Lokryan.
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Pup Lokryan because I have a lot of friends who are kink curious,
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but they really don't know the world that well.
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So they love to ask me a ton of questions.
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But the truth is, until very recently, honestly, until I
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became the King Consultant, I knew absolutely nothing about
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pub play in terms of compared to what I know now, right?
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And I thought this would be the perfect episode to do because I
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feel still so new. I can ask questions that I had
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even a year ago, but I also got a ton of questions from friends
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who had even more specific things they wanted to know.
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I was like, this is great, so do you mind if I get right into it?
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Let's go I'm. Ready.
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I love it. What is PUP play?
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That's a great question. I actually do teach a class on
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puppy play and that's like the question that everyone asks,
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like what is this thing? And the first thing I would say
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is it is both a role play and kind of a lifestyle.
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For me, being a puppy is part of my identity.
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So like if you go on my Fetlife and you look at my roles, one of
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them is puppy. But when we're talking about the
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play specifically, that is a generally we would call it a
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form of role play in which one or more people take on the role
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of a pup, a puppy, or there can also be a handler, a puppy
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handler. That's generally when we talk
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about pup play. That's generally what we mean
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when we talk about the play itself.
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OK, that makes sense. And now in the world of DS and
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top and bottoms and power exchange, would you be able to
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say that the puppies are bottoms or Subs and the handlers are
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tops or Doms? Like how would you define that?
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Does that exist there? Not as much as you would think.
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So there is kind of similar to Little's misconception that oh
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puppies are the bottoms, but that's not always the case.
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You can have relationships and dynamics between puppies wherein
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one puppy is in charge and they are they take on the dominant
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role and the other puppy is submissive.
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You can also have puppy handler relationships where the puppy is
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in charge and the handler is submissive.
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As for being a top or a bottom, I I guess you could technically
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call puppies bottom in that they're the ones receiving the
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pup play, but that's only in the context of pup play.
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I as a puppy have been known to single tail people and I'm very
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much topping that. So I consider being a puppy more
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of an identity outside of DS. Outside of play, it is more of a
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a lifestyle identity, a specific subgroup that you identify with.
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It doesn't necessarily have to do with your role or your
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position in a relationship. That was such a well done answer
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that I now want to take your class because I'm like, I feel
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that's just the tip of the iceberg.
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There's a lot but. Yeah, being part of the Spango
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community, I also consider myself in a subgroup of like
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that falls under the umbrella of kink and BDSM, but it's not as
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general as a lot of the other stuff That's also hard to
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define. Another question that kept
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coming up and has come up I think probably for years for you
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as well, what's the difference between pub play and being a
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furry? This is the question that comes
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up a lot. So I consider puppies to be
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inherently kinky. When you look at the history of
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puppy play, this started in the gay leather scene.
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And at that time puppies were submissive.
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You know, it was like, you know, you were someone dog slave.
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You were like very devoted and it was very much about the
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objectification, humiliation, a very almost Ms. kind of style of
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dynamic. So puppy play from its inception
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has been associated with and integrated into the kink
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lifestyle. That's different than furries,
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where it originated more as people expressing an
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anthropomorphized character, right?
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They're not inherently kinky, although I will say I know a lot
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of kinky furries, but this is something that is more enjoyed
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by I would say the nerd community, but generally like
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role play community and something that would fall
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outside of. And you can see that in furry
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conventions are open to the public.
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You know, there are of course 18 plus sections and the after
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parties have been known to get a little wild, but it is OK
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socially OK to bring someone under the age of 18 to a furry
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convention. That would not be the case for a
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pup convention. If I saw someone under the age
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of 18 at a pup convention, I would be very, very concerned
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because again, puppies are how they were formed and what we are
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today as a community is inherently of an adult nature.
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Whereas furries, it's much wider, it's much more open.
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Yeah. And I wouldn't even considered
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Furries pink adjacent because it seems like its own thing,
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really. Yeah.
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You mentioned conventions. So are there many that go on?
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Do you attend them? Like there's a lot of listeners
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out there who are interested in this and don't know that there
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are conventions happening. So I would love if you would
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share even your first experience with one.
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Yeah, absolutely. So all talk about conventions in
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two different ways. So first I'll start with there
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are kink conventions and leather conventions.
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And at those it is not uncommon to see puppies there.
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Obviously, I go to different conventions, I teach at
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conventions. And when I'm in a convention
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space, oftentimes I will have puppy gear.
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Usually for me that looks like, you know, I'll be wearing
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clothing, but then I'll have a tail on my belt and then I'll
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have my hood either on or hanging if I'm talking to
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someone or teaching. So just in general, yes, you can
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go to kink convention and you will see either classes about
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puppy play or you'll see puppies or you'll see activities.
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One of my favorite conventions, Don Connell, a, they have A at
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the beginning on that Friday, they have a little pet parade
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and it's not uncommon to see puppies there.
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On the other hand, there are conventions that are
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specifically for puppies. These often revolve around
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contests. Generally they're puppy and
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trainer contests. The largest one is International
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Puppy Trainer, which I believe is held in Chicago.
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I'll get an angry e-mail if it wasn't.
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But that is where puppies and handlers go to compete for
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titles. So for example, in Los Angeles
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they have LA puppy. I believe in Colorado there's a
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puppy trainer contest as well. There are also puppy trainer
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contest across the rest of the US and even internationally.
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So those are usually a weekend and it looks much more like a
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leather contest in which puppies and handlers will have an
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interview. There's probably a pop question.
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There's probably going to be some sort of show portion where
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you're wearing your gear or you're wearing a leather outfit
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or whatever have you. But those contestants will
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compete all through the weekend and at the end you get announced
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as either LA Puppy or LA Trainer.
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Or if you're going for the International 1, International
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Puppy, International Trainer. Some are regional.
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You could be like Rocky Mountain Puppy, which is like the
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Colorado area. I don't know if that's the
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title, but just as an example. But then you basically represent
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your community as the puppy or the trainer of that year, and
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you go to events and you make appearances and you judge other
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competitions and you do education, all sorts of
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different things. So you have just blown my mind
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because what's actually happening is what you just
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described to me sounded a lot like a Miss Universe pageant.
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OK. And then there are more regional
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ones. Is it ever a thing that's a
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tiered system where the regional ones work up to a big USA thing?
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That that's how it works and that's honestly how pretty much
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all leather competitions work. So I have a friend shout out, my
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friend Buck Harder, who just won Mr. Palm Springs Leather and he
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is now going to go compete at the next level, which is
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international Mr. Leather and international Mr. Leather.
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There's a big deal. Usually you get about 50
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contestants, 50 to 60 from all over the United States and from
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the world because it is an international competition.
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But yeah, that's generally how leather competitions work and
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puppy competitions are no different.
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You will usually go to a bar contest and so like for example,
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the one closest to me in Sacramento is Mr. Bolt.
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You can compete for Mr. Bolt Leather.
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Then sometimes in order to go to International Mr. Leather, you
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have to go to a regional contest after that.
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And the closest regional contest also in Sacramento is Northwest
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Person of Leather. They are different circuits.
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Northwest Person of Leather goes to International Person of
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Leather, whereas Mr. Bolt goes to IML International Mr.
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Leather. But there are sometimes regional
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contests that you can only enter after you've won a bar contest.
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And then from those regional contests you go to International
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Mr. Leather, which is the international title.
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There are puppy celebrities then.
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Well, celebrity might be the wrong word, but they're really
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well known for having won multiple awards.
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Yeah, absolutely. And honestly, I think for myself
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personally, what makes a puppy well known and what really
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catches my attention with the puppy isn't so much the awards
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they win, it's what they do with them.
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I'm friends with some puppies who have won a regional title
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and they work hard to be a presence in their community.
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You know, whether it be showing up to events as a volunteer or
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Adm, which is a dungeon monitor, giving, education, writing,
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speaking. I know some puppies who like do
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what I do but with like mainstream media, which is
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something I wouldn't do. But to me, well known puppies,
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absolutely. Like some of them are title
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holders, but a lot of them do a lot of community service, which
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I think is super important for anyone in the community, but
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especially for someone who has a title.
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I'm really looking at how are they giving back to the
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community that put them where they are.
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Yeah. 100% weird question, but one of the things that you kind
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of brush over this, how much of this is looks based?
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Is there a fitness aspect to this?
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Yes and no. It depends on the title, truly
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it it depends on the title. Some titles there's always a
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look portion. There's almost always the look
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portion where they're not judging fitness there.
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They're not looking for like, oh, you have great abs and great
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pecs. What they're looking at is
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someone's outfit. So at IML, for example, there is
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a bar wear and that's what you would wear to a leather bar.
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There's also a jockstrap portion, you and a jockstrap,
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and then I believe there's also a formal leather portion.
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Generally you see the guys in formal leather anyway, they look
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amazing, but there is, I believe as a part of the contest,
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looking like coming out in a formal look.
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I believe that's also the time where you deliver your speech.
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Again, I might be getting some of this wrong.
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It's been a while since I've actually looked at the
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competition and exactly what sections are wear, but there's
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at least one looks portion in most contests.
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I'm guessing for puppy contests that's usually puppy gear,
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something like that. So it's not always about
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fitness. I won't speak to how they're
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judged because I can't tell you what's going through the judges
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minds, but it's generally supposed to be about like what
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you're wearing, your confidence, how you're showing it off,
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things like that. Makes a ton of sense.
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OK, taking a slight step back, a question I ask a lot of King
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involved guests on my show is when did you realize you were
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kinky? It's been something I've known
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for a very long time. When I was much younger, I like
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to read. When I discovered the Internet,
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naturally, I gravitated towards reading sites, found romance
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books, found some dark romance books and kind of hopped in
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there. I have been an active
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participant in organized King community since I was 18.
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So as of from the time of recording 2 days from now, I'll
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be turning 25. So that's seven years.
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So that's how long I've been actively participating.
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But as far as just like me knowing that I into some of the
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things I've been into, it's been, I couldn't tell you
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exactly the moment. It's been a long time.
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I said I was Born This Way because like I remember being 5
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and thinking about very kinky things and just not
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understanding until I was older. Oh this is pink and this is for
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me something sexual but not for everyone.
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When did you first identify as a pup?
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As a puppy a little, it's, I think it's been 4 years now.
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So when I, shortly after I got into the community, I identified
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as AD type and as a part of that I met puppies and I was a puppy
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handler and I always thought, oh, this looks really fun.
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This is like, you know, kind of, it is kind of a thing, but it
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was actually being in college that kind of convinced me to be
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a puppy. I was looking at the puppies I
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was playing with and I was like, oh, this is really fun.
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They look so happy and carefree and I'm like, gosh, I could use
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that. I'm taking 20 credits.
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I'm a music student. I'm practicing until 1 in the
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morning. I don't have a sleep schedule,
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social life, forget it, you know, just a lot.
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And so I tried it out and I ended up really, really liking
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it. And I think I got fully, fully
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into puppy play, like doing it all the time about a little over
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three years ago. But since then it's been one of
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my main identities. And then I fully changed my name
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to Puplochri and a little over a year ago.
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Can I ask what it was before that?
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Yeah, it was Phrygian months. Oh, OK.
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I don't know why I feel I knew that on some level, even though
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I wasn't following you. I don't think more a little more
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than a year ago. You might have seen.
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It maybe somewhere. Yeah.
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Actually, the way the socials allow you to see, like previous
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videos, this is a question that I'm never really sure how to
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phrase because I understand it's complex, even for me.
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And when people ask me about kink, how much of identifying as
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a puppy is intertwined with your own sexuality and sex life?
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Great question. As far as my sexuality, that's
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not necessarily it doesn't affect who I'm attracted to or
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things like that. I guess in the tiniest way of at
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this moment I'm much more of an S type right now.
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So I'm looking for a more dominant people.
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But again as we established before that doesn't necessarily
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mean puppy anything like that. So sexuality, that's not that's
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not necessarily affected, but as far as my sex life, since most
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of the play I do is puppy play most of the sex that I have
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because when I play, it's rarely sexual for me.
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But if it is in the context of that play, it's going to be as a
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puppy usually. So there there is that.
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Yeah, I can relate completely. Not as a puppy, but as someone
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who's into spanking. You answered that so well.
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I'm feeling like I need to take your answer and then just switch
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out some words and be like, that's how I'm going to answer
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going forward. OK, We also a little bit about
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gear, right? And I mean, what gear do you
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have? You mentioned a tail and your
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hood that you might wear on your belt or wear on, but what it
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seems pretty painful to be on all fours playing as a puppy.
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What protective gear do you wear?
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Like I I want to know all of it. Great question.
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So yeah, we can break gear up into a couple of different
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categories. You can have the more cosmetic
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gear and then you have the protective stuff.
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So as far as the protective stuff, knee pads and wrist
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straps, that's for me an absolute must.
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I also like to wear socks. I just don't like my bare feet
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on like stuff. But knee pads, absolutely
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essential for me. Unless you're playing, even if
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you're playing on a padded foam surface, if you've ever been on
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like a wrestling mat or a gym floor, you'll know that if you
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slide your knee, you can get mat burn and that is painful.
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And carpets, well, they can't be soft.
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They're not necessarily absorbent.
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So you're still on like some pretty rough terrain.
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So I, I always say knee pads, I use a kind of like a sleeve,
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kind of like a dancer's sleeve or a wrestling sleeve that is a
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little bit thinner, but it does stay on really well.
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And then the other thing is wrist wraps.
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When you are on all fours, your wrists aren't necessarily
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designed to support the human and body for long periods of
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time. Oh yeah.
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So I do wear they're from Mr. S, but they wrap around your wrist.
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And for me, number one, they look super cute.
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They have puppy paws on them. They're purple, They're
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adorable. But they also give me just a
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little bit of extra oomph in my wrist so I can be comfortable
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while playing. They also extend a little bit so
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that my knuckles aren't on like the hard floor for all that
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time. So they're padded.
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Oh, OK, that brings up a new question.
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When you say knuckles on your floor, when I imagine puppy, I'm
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like on all fours, my hands down.
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Are you on your knuckles? I switch it up.
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This puts a lot of strain because your wrist is bent for
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those who cannot see everyone else.
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If you are on all floors with your all fours with your hands
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flat, since your wrists are bent, it kind of creates an
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awkward angle and you're putting a lot of pressure right at the
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bend in your wrist. So I alternate, I go sometime,
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most of the time on like a clenched fist and that padding
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protects that. And that way your wrist is
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straight so you have a little bit more strength there.
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But sometimes, especially if I'm like laying down, it's going to
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be, you know, flat hands. You know, not enough
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appreciation is given to the amount of strain we put our body
17:26
through to enjoy our specific kinks.
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It's true. Puppy play is a very it can be a
17:32
very physical play. Don't get me wrong, there are
17:34
some puppy scenes where I am just like relaxing and watching
17:38
a movie. And I've had entire scenes where
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my whole job was to just cuddle with someone and be cute.
17:44
Those are fortunate. Not very physically taxing.
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Yeah, But I'm also very into puppy training, so that is where
17:52
they, like, someone wants me to learn a specific thing, whether
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it be how to walk properly with them or sit, stay or other
17:59
commands. And that can get rather intense.
18:03
You're moving around, you're using your body.
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And really, this is physical exercise.
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Imagine on all fours doing an obstacle course.
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That's like literally some of what puppy play is, you know, so
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puppy play can actually be extremely physically taxing.
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And I will say it is, it is kind of my workout.
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It, it is absolutely, if I know I'm doing like a good hour long
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session, I'm not going to the gym or working out that day
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because that is going to be, it's going to be the workout.
18:31
Yeah, and I would encourage everyone to just take a second
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and think about how physically taxing it would be if I made you
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get down on all fours right now and walk around for even half an
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hour. That is a lot of work.
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So I commend you for it and I agree.
18:45
Oh, training? Are there treats involved in
18:48
training? Yes Sir 1 tip I have about
18:52
treats is I like to alternate between the salty and the sweet
18:55
thing If you have too much sweet, you get thirsty if you
18:57
have too much salty, you get thirsty.
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And depending on what you're wearing, it can be hard to drink
19:01
water while doing puppy play and you.
19:02
And for me, it's mostly I don't necessarily love breaking the
19:05
immersion of OK, I need water, pull the hood up drink, you
19:08
know, so I, I try to keep myself as hydrated as possible.
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But yes, treats are involved Skittles and those are good.
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I for salty will get one of those.
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Like, you know those meat sticks that you can get at a gas
19:21
station? I know them.
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You can just cut them into like 1 inch pieces and they make a
19:27
great treat. So just some easy things.
19:30
You don't have to break the bank.
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I will say I don't recommend that using actual dog food.
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It's made for dogs and while we are playing as puppies, we are
19:38
not actually puppies. Most importantly, we do not have
19:41
the digestive system of 1. So for your own safety, because
19:45
you don't necessarily know what exactly what's in there and how
19:48
it will react to you, stick to human food while doing puppy
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play. Just great advice.
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I remember when I first heard about treats though I was so
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excited. I was like of course they get
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and deserve treats, they are doing well.
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I was like but what are those treats?
20:01
Very fun Bertha newbies out there who are interested now and
20:05
curious about puppy play. What advice can you give them?
20:09
The first piece of advice I would have is you don't need to
20:13
rush out and buy all with the gear that you see people wearing
20:17
online or even in person. I have been collecting my gear
20:22
over a well three-year period now and you know, usually it's
20:27
like a jock strap here, a hood there, a harness there.
20:31
I did not, with the exception of my initial purchase, go buy
20:38
everything. To give you perspective, you
20:41
know, a hood, let's say from Mr. S Leather because that's where I
20:44
purchased mine range between 70 to if you're getting a full
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leather hood, I mean, that's like 3 or $400.00.
20:51
Whoa. A harness can be anywhere from
20:54
100 and up. A jock strap, Mr. S leather jock
20:58
strap. I think there's $60.00.
20:59
I'd have to check. But then I also wear like those
21:02
wrist straps were $100. The new pads were another $30.
21:05
My boots, which I wear to puppy socials and stuff when I'm not
21:08
like actively playing, those were another $200.00.
21:11
So you can see it it adds up like.
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Oh yeah. If you have seen my pictures on
21:15
online, you'll be like wow, it doesn't look like a lot of
21:17
fabric, you're right. And yet still it cost me almost
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$1000. I know so good wearing it though
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so it was money well spent. It's money well spent, but the
21:29
thing I want new people to realize is don't feel the
21:32
pressure to buy those things right off the bat.
21:35
Instead, focus on, do you like puppy play?
21:38
You know, sometimes we can find the allure of something really
21:42
hot, but then you actually do it and you're sweaty and the room
21:45
is uncomfortable and you're like, Oh my God, I don't want to
21:48
do this kind of play right now. Or maybe you figure out I don't
21:52
want to do this kind of play at all.
21:54
To me, like, to me, being a puppy and being on all fours is
21:57
weird as hell. So I don't want to do that.
22:00
And that I think that is OK, but I don't want someone to make the
22:03
financial investment of gear before discovering they don't
22:08
like it because the return policy on most things is not.
22:11
Not yeah, I know. I've been there.
22:14
So my other tip would be talk to other puppies and ask them about
22:19
their experiences. You don't have to take a class
22:22
necessarily. You don't have to go like to an
22:24
educator. But if you have the ability to
22:27
be in community with other puppies and ask them just like,
22:31
hey, what's being a puppy like to you?
22:32
Do you identify as a certain kind of puppy?
22:34
Like what is your play or your persona look like different than
22:38
a persona? But I'm just like, who are you
22:40
as a puppy and how did you kind of find that out?
22:42
That is a great way to kind of Crowdsource information about
22:46
what being a puppy might be like for you, like for myself.
22:49
I was gonna say, can we start asking you those questions
22:52
because I'm like, what kind of puppy do you identify as?
22:55
Yeah, I was. I was actually about to say.
22:56
So for myself, I'm very much a mix between a Pitbull and a
22:59
Husky. I'm very, as a puppy, emotive
23:02
and expressive. I love to use my eyes to get
23:05
what I want. And if you've seen a Pitbull,
23:07
you know how good they are with their eyes.
23:09
But at the same time, I am very talkative.
23:12
I make sounds. I don't just bark like growl
23:16
wine, do that weird pseudo talkie thing that Huskies do,
23:20
Huskies do. I can do a very good Husky sigh,
23:24
you know, just like the like really explosive kind of breath
23:28
of air. So that's kind of where I get my
23:30
mannerisms from. How do people discover their
23:35
identity or type of puppy they identify as?
23:38
Like, is it something that's given to you because people
23:40
witness you, or do you decide it for yourself?
23:42
Just kind of figure it out on my own.
23:44
I from for me, I figured out how I liked to act as a puppy and
23:48
then I was like, oh, this is really kind of similar to what
23:51
this particular breed of dog does.
23:53
Also, I should have said this earlier, but I will say it now,
23:56
puppy play has absolutely nothing to do with real animals.
23:59
That is illegal. So.
24:02
I would never have even thought to say that, so thank you for
24:05
saying. I unfortunately, I've had to
24:07
deal with people who are like, so you like animals?
24:09
I'm like, no, I actually don't love animals.
24:12
They're cute, you know, like. You don't love animals like that
24:15
like they're implying. Precisely so.
24:18
Puppy play has nothing to do with IRL animals.
24:21
It's very much a play between consenting humans.
24:24
With that out of the way, for me it was, I have been around dogs
24:28
all of my life and I've kind of observed how they act.
24:31
And so as I was kind of beginning to play, I'm like,
24:34
well, what would the dog do? You know what?
24:36
Yeah, what is it like? Well, I'm gonna go chew on this
24:41
thing. And then I did, you know.
24:43
I love that. And it's so you really just
24:45
became authentically like, OK, let me see what they do.
24:48
I'm gonna do that. My assumption is you enjoyed it,
24:50
right? For me, the biggest thing is I
24:53
enjoy clearing my mind and not being in a place where I have to
24:56
think about everything. You know, I've held very high
24:59
stress jobs, I've been in school, I do a lot of things
25:03
that require me to hold a lot of hats, responsibilities, roles,
25:08
etcetera, etcetera. And the main draw of puppy play
25:11
for me was I get to turn my head off for however long I'm playing
25:16
and just be a pup, you know? Yeah, I get to not worry about
25:22
that 12 page essay that's due and worry about the fact that
25:26
the person on the other end of this rope is holding it and I
25:29
don't have it. And that's and that's the
25:31
biggest problem in my life right now is I am not the sole thing
25:35
that has control of this rope. So that was that was a huge draw
25:39
for me. It was just like the no thoughts
25:41
head empty. I get to just kind of pop out
25:45
for a bit. The irony being that I guess
25:47
being on a leash or a rope gave you freedom from yes.
25:51
Life, yeah, absolutely. And I, I would encourage for
25:54
anyone that is in my class, I talk about that.
25:57
That is very much escapism. That can be healthy in doses
26:01
that should not be like don't rely on escapism is like the
26:04
only thing that you do all the time in that if it's affecting
26:08
your work or your life, that's that's a line that you you
26:12
should talk to someone about. But like if you're missing work,
26:16
like I don't feel like working today.
26:17
I just want a puppy. That's I still get my
26:19
responsibilities done in me being no thoughts head empty.
26:23
That is after OK, I'm going to practice for two hours because,
26:27
you know, I have a music degree and that is all that we or I'm
26:31
going to make sure that this paper gets done because it needs
26:35
to get done. So you can very much treat it as
26:37
a reward. You know, I did three hours of
26:39
good solid homework today or I graded 50 papers.
26:43
I'm going to be a puppy now for an hour, you know, and that's.
26:46
A good point, the escapism side is like can be so alluring it
26:50
takes over. It's almost like king frenzy
26:53
when you first get into it too. Just wanting to do it all the
26:56
time. A little bit I I would classify
26:58
it almost as a frenzy and that's why I say it's important to
27:02
manage. It's absolutely fine to have
27:03
fun. It's absolutely good and OK to
27:06
enjoy what you enjoy. But just as a reminder, please
27:10
make sure you are taking care of all of the needs in your life.
27:13
You can't use clay to escape from what needs to be done.
27:18
No, even when it feels and sounds like the most appealing
27:22
thing ever, you are correct. Yeah.
27:24
You've said that you started off as a handler, right?
27:28
Can you give some advice on what makes a good handler and what
27:32
maybe puppy should let it out for?
27:34
Or any two people trying to find their right puppy or handler?
27:37
What makes a good match? What makes a good handler?
27:40
Great question as a handler, the first thing to know is there's
27:44
no one right way to be a handler.
27:45
I know some handlers who play the very like doting old lady
27:50
with a poodle kind of handler. I know other people who play the
27:55
owner of a military working dog kind of handler.
27:57
But the one thing I would say is be authentic, because puppy
27:59
play, as taxing it is as it is for the puppy, can also be
28:02
taxing for a handler. You have to think if you're
28:04
working with a dog, like a real dog, it can Hey, like you know,
28:08
they're they're very hands on creatures, right?
28:10
You do have to engage with them. The same is true with puppy
28:13
play. You know, it's you want to
28:16
engage with your partner, you want to engage with who you're
28:18
playing with. So however you're engaging, I
28:21
find it's best to be authentic. Now, if you're a puppy looking
28:24
for a handler, keep that in mind.
28:26
Keep in mind your style. Again, I'm someone who really
28:29
likes to be trained. I love to like, oh, when I step
28:31
with my right foot, I have or when they step with their right
28:33
foot, I have to move with my right paw and so on and so
28:35
forth. So someone who is a bit more
28:36
strict and more inclined for that type of play is great.
28:40
Some people are show dogs, they want to like be made all pretty
28:44
and wear all this gear and be posed and be like carted around
28:48
and do tricks. Look for someone who also wants
28:51
to do that, you know, just as there's not just one kind of top
28:55
for impact or sensory deprivation or electroplate,
28:59
handlers come in all shapes and sizes.
29:02
And as a handler, find your shape and size.
29:04
You know, also as a handler, it is not bad to have some of your
29:08
own gear. You know, I have plenty of my
29:12
own collars. I think I have four or five.
29:14
They're all spread all around here.
29:17
But I also love wearing someone else's collar, right?
29:21
That that gives me a much different feeling of, oh, this
29:24
is this is their thing on my neck.
29:26
This is special. You know, it's also good to have
29:29
a leash. And if you want to get a really
29:31
like personalized leather leash with like a a rose gold chain in
29:36
your name engraved on it, do that, you know, have something
29:39
that's really authentically you and that you can like, Oh, this
29:42
is my leash that's going on you. So it's never a bad idea to have
29:46
some gear. Also toys and stuff.
29:48
One thing I will say, a lot of puppy toys go in the mouth so if
29:52
you're gonna get toys, get sanitizable ones.
29:54
There is actually a company that makes human safe silicone dog
29:58
bones. You can look for those.
30:00
They're not too pricey, $2530 a bone which for body safe
30:04
silicone is pretty good. Yeah, no, that is really good.
30:07
But I would never have thought of toys, by the way.
30:09
I mean, treats blew my mind and like, I do not like toys.
30:12
Of course. That makes sense.
30:13
Do you play fetch too? I sometimes that ones that one's
30:17
really tiring. I don't, I don't do.
30:20
I mean, all of it does sound tiring.
30:22
It sounds like an investment in physical being because you have
30:26
to be moving around. But also, yeah, like an actual
30:30
financial investment. Everything you've described,
30:32
it's not just a power exchange because that cannot be all
30:35
mental. Like there is gear in this as
30:37
well, but question on that. Do you ever do scenes where
30:40
you're not in any gear and neither is your handler and it's
30:43
just? Yeah, first year and a half I
30:45
was doing puppy play. I had absolutely zero gear.
30:48
Granted, I didn't like having mirrors around cuz that felt a
30:51
little weird. But yeah, no, you can, you can
30:53
do puppy play without any gear. And to me, actually, it can be
30:57
some of the most authentic connection when when you can be
31:01
in that vulnerable space and have someone look at you not
31:04
wearing any gear and still see you as a puppy and still see you
31:08
in that light. That can actually be super
31:10
connecting, you know, because for me, it's very authentic when
31:13
someone can see me be like, oh, puppy, you know, even if I'm not
31:16
like, it's very easy to say puppy when I'm wearing my hood
31:19
and my collar and like everything.
31:21
And it's like, oh, puppy, duh, you know, but for someone to see
31:26
and know me as just me as locrian and see puppy, that's
31:31
super special and, and playing in that element, you know, I, I,
31:35
I do have a handler right now. We've played without gear and
31:39
it's a very intimate experience, at least for me, to have someone
31:44
see you as a puppy, see you in that light without, without all
31:48
the gear. You know, it's so a gear is
31:50
absolutely not necessary and in my opinion, can actually make
31:53
for some amazing and cool scene. So if you've never tried playing
31:57
without gear, I encourage it. It's actually quite fun.
32:01
Yeah, I mean, well, we all love to be seen.
32:04
I think who we are. And it does sound the intimacy.
32:08
I can tell it's there. OK, I know you gave advice for
32:11
newbies, right? But for someone who wants to
32:13
discover their local community of puppies, right?
32:17
What advice do you have for them?
32:18
Where? Where can they go to find their
32:21
community? Great question.
32:22
So finding puppies, finding puppies specifically can
32:27
sometimes take a little bit more legwork.
32:28
I will say a lot of places that I know that do pup play aren't
32:32
as visible on FET as everywhere else.
32:35
What I would recommend is start off in your local kink community
32:40
that just like the general thing and ask people you know, Hey,
32:44
are there any puppies? Are there any puppy groups?
32:46
That's a good way to find out what's going on.
32:49
And I recommend that for any subgroup.
32:50
Are you interested in impact? Ask is there an impact group
32:53
that meets? Is there like a, you know, if
32:55
you're interested in learning about being a dominant, Is there
32:57
a dominant support group? Is there a sub support group?
32:59
Is there a switch support group? So that's one good way.
33:02
The second way is if you live somewhere that has a leather
33:05
bar, go to the leather bar. Like I said, puppies are very
33:09
connected to the leather community.
33:10
If you will probably either find puppies there or find someone
33:14
who knows where the puppies are. Yeah, like for example, the
33:17
leather bar that I frequent the most is where the pup mosh is
33:20
held. So you might get lucky and be
33:22
like hey, I'm like I looking for like puppy events and like oh,
33:25
we hold a mosh every 3rd Saturday of the month.
33:28
Tada, here you go. But.
33:30
And you're saying mosh? Yes, so Amash is a puppy social
33:34
slash play event. And when I say play, I I don't
33:37
necessarily mean like whips and chains and all that fun stuff.
33:41
It's much more like puppy on puppy social friendly.
33:45
You know, toss a ball into a circle of puppies and see what
33:47
happens kind of a thing. Mosh is in my opinion, are super
33:49
fun though. I keep talking about the one in
33:52
that's closest to me. I haven't actually gone to that
33:54
one, but I've gone to others in like LA and, and stuff like
33:57
that. There's just a time to #1 meet
33:59
people #2 you get to pop out a little bit.
34:02
You get to play with other puppies.
34:05
This is a huge thing that I was talking about that like puppy on
34:07
puppy play at Masha's totally a thing, you know, because there's
34:10
just like a huge mat and there are puppies.
34:13
And so you go and you just get to hang out and like pop out
34:17
with other puppies and usually and there, there are people who
34:20
attend the munch not to play just to be social.
34:23
That's again, another great way to meet other people.
34:26
Ask them if they're OK with you asking them some questions about
34:29
their who they are as a puppy and like kind of how they
34:32
figured out where they were. But yeah, munches are fun.
34:34
Munches are great. OK, good to know.
34:36
So it sounds kind of like a munch, but there's a little bit
34:38
more play at it. Puppies.
34:40
I wouldn't call it the same as a munch.
34:41
I I would definitely say it's more of a it is more solidly a
34:46
play event than anything else, but there is a big social
34:49
element to it. I would say there's a social
34:51
element to anything puppies do because puppies are just we're,
34:55
we're social creatures. We're very fun, but I wouldn't
34:59
go expecting like Munch vibes. It's more than that, so.
35:04
Play is going to happen. Yeah, you're, you're, you're
35:06
going to see people roaming around.
35:07
And I will say when I say play, I can't remember having gone to
35:11
a mosh that was like super sexual.
35:13
So for people who are hearing play and thinking, oh, something
35:16
sex related, not necessarily. A lot of it is like social puppy
35:22
play activities. So people will bring toys to
35:25
like you know a rope for two puppies to grab an end of and
35:29
and pull a ball to play fetch with it.
35:31
It's not a giant orgy. So please don't go expecting a
35:34
giant orgy. You will be really disappointed.
35:37
No, that's really good advice. It's funny because I guess
35:39
because I do what I do, I never expect for things like this.
35:42
I forget that people might expect to go up and it to be a
35:45
big orgy or some sort of almost like swinger situation.
35:48
But that is a really good reminder.
35:50
I have a question that I can't even say anyone else asked me.
35:53
This is just coming up as you talk about it.
35:55
You know how we always, maybe not everyone knows this, but in
35:58
Victorian times it used to be pretty popular for groups of
36:02
people to get together and sort of partaking, pretending to be
36:05
puppies. Have you heard that before?
36:07
Are we talking kind of like the history of animal role play kind
36:10
of a thing in general? It's more in general has been
36:13
discussed as this funny thing that people did in Victorian
36:17
times as opposed to the history of, I guess, animal role play,
36:21
right? And I haven't looked into it
36:22
enough, but I'm wondering, is there any connection to it?
36:25
Is that the origin that we have for it or were they just playing
36:29
because there wasn't a lot going on in Victorian England?
36:32
So that would kind of fall under kind of the history of animal
36:35
role play, which is something I've kind of looked into a
36:37
little bit. It has not been uncommon
36:40
throughout periods of time for people to engage an animal role
36:43
play. I would say there's not a direct
36:46
correlation between that and what we have today, however,
36:50
very similar, right? People pretending to be puppies
36:52
versus people pretending to be puppies.
36:54
So the mechanics are the same. But again, at least at least in
36:58
the US and kind of for the puppy play that we define today, that
37:03
really again came out of the leather community and those
37:06
relationships as as well as various other things.
37:11
But you know, kind of the origins of being a puppy being
37:14
that, at least for what we see right now, are a little bit more
37:17
connected to the leather community than they would be to,
37:21
I don't say extracurricular, but like outside of that animal role
37:24
play, because I mean, we can we can trace animal role play back
37:27
to like the Egyptian times, people doing animal role play,
37:31
not necessarily in a sexy sense. Sometimes it was ceremonial,
37:34
sometimes it was as part of entertaining or art.
37:38
Puppy play right now is a really cool mix of fashion, artistry,
37:44
erotic behavior, kind of combines a little bit of
37:46
everything. But yeah, so similar.
37:49
I mean, I'm actually not too familiar specifically with the
37:53
Victorian example, but I do know of other examples that are again
37:59
similar to the Victorian 1. Well, evidently neither am I
38:01
because I wasn't even 100% sure. But what you've just described
38:05
is an actual rich history of animal role play because I did
38:08
also tangentially know about the Egyptians.
38:10
So it like there is a history there.
38:11
It might just not be as erotic as what you're describing today.
38:15
But thanks for that. I have another question that has
38:18
just popped into my head as you went through this.
38:20
Obviously, we've been talking about puppy play.
38:22
I do not expect you to be an expert in all animal role play,
38:25
but do you think there's much overlap in the people who enjoy
38:28
puppy play as those who enjoy pony play?
38:31
Well I also do pony play so. OK.
38:32
So I didn't even know that. OK.
38:35
Yeah, I, I, I don't advertise being a pony very much.
38:38
Quite honestly, I get to do it like once every other year.
38:42
And so it not, you know, it's just something I enjoy.
38:44
I wouldn't consider myself a pony, but there are a lot of
38:48
differences specifically with pony play.
38:51
It's funny that you bring up pony play because I've learned
38:54
that pony players tend to be like, we're not like the
38:57
puppies, we're not like the kittens.
38:59
We, our play is different. So we're specifically talking
39:02
about pony play that looks wildly different for me.
39:05
That's usually done outdoors. I'm either pulling a cart or
39:09
you're doing trotting or you're doing something like that.
39:12
But pony play in general, at least for how I play, requires a
39:15
much larger and usually outdoor space.
39:18
I feel like pony play also isn't necessarily as social.
39:23
There are gatherings where people go to do pony play, and
39:25
there's obviously some social things.
39:27
But whereas I think like, you know, think like a mosh where
39:29
puppies are social creatures and that's how a lot of puppies can
39:32
act in community, there's not as much of that for pony players
39:36
specifically. There are still pony conventions
39:38
that you know you could have a team of ponies pulling a cart or
39:40
something, but there are definitely some differences.
39:43
And do you know many other puppies who also will sometimes
39:47
dabble as pony? I honestly don't know if I do
39:50
that. I do have a lot of puppy friends
39:52
and I think a couple of them also do some pony play, but
39:57
there's not necessarily like if you're one, you're going to be
40:00
the other that, you know, like guarantee of that.
40:02
That makes sense, yeah. I didn't think there would be,
40:04
but I was wondering if there was overlap because there's still a
40:07
lot of protocol in both types of play, although pony play seems
40:11
very high protocol from what I've seen of it.
40:13
It depends on what you're looking at.
40:15
It can be. It can be very low protocol.
40:17
So like you could just kind of like a farm horse that you're
40:20
working with who's pulling the plow and it could be very casual
40:23
or you could be doing that dressage, very formal high
40:27
protocol thing. And notably, I remember it's in
40:30
the TV show Bones, and that's actually where I've learned
40:33
about pony play and actually where but a little bit of my
40:35
interest came from in that specifics type of play.
40:38
It is very much the distage high protocol, very formal thing.
40:43
But again, that it doesn't have to be like that.
40:45
And honestly, most people don't always play like that.
40:48
Unless I'm in the specific mood, doing something super high
40:51
protocol like that is is not actually what I gravitate
40:54
towards. Yeah, that, I mean that makes
40:57
sense. And sorry for pulling us away so
40:59
far away from puppy play. I didn't even know you had ever
41:02
done pony play, so I am glad I asked.
41:05
You mentioned it being in Bones. Is there any other mainstream
41:09
movie or TV show that includes either puppy or pony play that
41:13
the puppy community really recognizes a standing out?
41:17
Will and Grace, that was the first time that puppy play was
41:20
featured in mainstream media. I forget the season, I forget
41:24
the episode, but it's kind of a notable moment was Willie and
41:27
Grace had some puppy play Amazing.
41:30
Honestly, if you look online, you'll find you'll find some
41:33
things this kind of role play in in popular media is a little bit
41:39
more a little bit more rare, I want to say, but there are still
41:44
some really good examples. So.
41:45
Awesome. And Speaking of looking online
41:48
and looking for things, do you have any recommendations of
41:50
books that people could read about puppy play?
41:54
Yeah, absolutely. So one book that it looks like
41:58
it's in development, but I still think there's some great
42:02
resources on it is a book called Canis Major, and you can find
42:08
that as well as some amazing resources on puppy play at
42:11
puppyplay.info. The title of The thing is Nerdy
42:15
Doggo. I love it.
42:16
Honestly, I when I was first learning that, that's where I
42:19
went to kind of read like everything and I read, I read
42:23
everything. There is also a book called
42:26
Puppy play. This is for sale at Minister S
42:28
Leather, but you can probably find it elsewhere.
42:31
Puppy play by Tosa Alfinu. I apologize if that was
42:36
incorrect, but the person's, the author's first name is Tosa TOSA
42:39
and it's just puppy play and that is another resource.
42:43
I've flipped through it. I think it's really cool and I
42:47
think it does go into a little bit of the history, goes into
42:51
puppy headspace. It can cover some of the gear,
42:54
but those are just a couple of recommendations that I've had
42:57
and personally interacted with. But there are other things out
43:00
there. There are blogs, there,
43:02
websites, all sorts of things. Awesome.
43:05
OK. Thank you so much for going
43:06
through all of those. Pup, I am so glad you decided to
43:10
come on today. Thank you so much.
43:12
I've learned a ton. Appreciate you sharing all of
43:14
your valuable knowledge that you've gained over the last few
43:16
years. So for all of the listeners, if
43:18
you do want to find PUP Lokrien on Instagram, you can find them
43:23
at Pup under Score Lokrien. So for the people of the
43:27
interwebs, I did recently do kind of a rebrand.
43:30
Someone decided that they didn't like me being a puppy on the
43:33
Internet so they were going to out me.
43:35
So unfortunately that happened, but my profiles are up and kind
43:40
of restarted. So yes, my username at Instagram
43:43
is Pup under score Lokrien. Please request to follow.
43:46
I just briefly look at profile files to make sure it's not
43:49
someone with nefarious intent and then you'll be on there.
43:52
My Instagram is mostly for class announcements.
43:57
So if you're interested in any of the education that I do, I
44:00
teach about puppy play. But one of the main things that
44:03
I talk about is diversity and equity within the kink and
44:06
leather scenes and the swinger scene and the polyamory scene.
44:09
Actually too a little bit. But if that's something you're
44:11
interested in, that's what a lot of my classes focus on.
44:14
You can also follow my TikTok which was recently.
44:17
I did change the name on that. You've basically flipped it
44:20
because on TikTok you're at logrin under score.
44:24
Under score pub yes, so I just flipped the username there.
44:27
That is also a private account. Again, I just want to manage
44:31
who's who's seeing that. But my TikTok is more for
44:35
general education. I will eventually start putting
44:38
videos out. Right now it's pretty sparse.
44:41
I privated some of my old content, but it is there and you
44:44
are welcome to follow. Think that's about it in terms
44:47
of social media. If you need need to get in
44:49
contact with me, whether it be for a question or things, you
44:52
are welcome to e-mail me at puplocarian@gmail.com.
44:55
I try to get back to people within three business days, so
44:59
not including weekends. So people have learned business
45:02
days is Monday through Friday. So if you e-mail on me on
45:05
Saturday, you'll get a response by Wednesday.
45:07
Yeah. That's a good boundary to have
45:09
in place. And pup, you have your own
45:11
podcast as well, right? I do yes.
45:15
I do it with my best friend pup Juniper or Lord Allen.
45:20
We talk some about puppy play. Yes it's called Pups podcast,
45:25
but we also we talk about everything.
45:29
We just posted an episode last week, I believe, about taboo
45:33
kinks. So that's where we're going into
45:35
like rainbow play, race play, blackmail, all sorts of things
45:40
that are just people tend to be like, whoa, you, you wow.
45:45
But mostly we talk about like what draws people to them, like
45:48
they're standing in the community, things like that.
45:50
But we also, if you don't want to listen to that one, I
45:53
completely understand it. That is a rather advanced one.
45:55
We also have things on like boot blacking.
45:58
We did several episodes about black history in leather for
46:03
February and we had some amazing people like SER guy XXX hex
46:08
HEXXX some great people who cover the history of people of
46:13
color, specifically black people in the leather community.
46:17
So if you're interested in learning more about that, you're
46:19
interested in learning more about kink, puppy play, we have
46:22
that out. Awesome.
46:23
And I would just then reiterate, don't just listen to the most
46:26
recent episode. Check out the back catalogue as
46:29
well. Yes, check out the back
46:30
catalogue. I also apologize because I will
46:33
admit I do the editing and sometimes I'm not very good at
46:37
it but it's a learning process and I've gotten better than I
46:41
was the 1st episode. Hub was super helpful.
46:44
As soon as they found out I had a podcast, they reached out
46:47
immediately and said, hey, need any help, need any advice.
46:50
And I thought that was so kind. And that's one of the things I
46:53
love about even our online hinky community is we are willing to
46:57
all lend a hand and like jump in and make sure no one's
47:00
reinventing the wheel if they don't have to.
47:02
So I think, I think you're doing great and I have no notes.
47:06
Thank you, Thank you. Yeah, pup, thank you so much
47:10
again for coming on. I really appreciate it having
47:12
you and I really hope we can do this again sometime soon.
47:15
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me
47:17
on. If you enjoyed this episode,
47:20
don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with
47:23
anyone who might find it interesting.
47:25
And if you have any questions or topics you'd like me to cover in
47:28
future episodes, feel free to reach out e-mail
47:30
info@thekingconsultant.com. Until next time, keep on Kinkin
47:35
on.