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Sort Your Career Out Q&A! · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr
0:04
Speaker 1: the Order, Kerney Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before
0:08
Speaker 1: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I
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Speaker 1: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
0:14
Speaker 1: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
0:18
Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming
0:22
Speaker 1: through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing
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Speaker 1: and the storytelling of you to make a difference for
0:30
Speaker 1: today and lasting impact for tomorrow.
0:33
Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
0:34
Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
0:57
Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
1:00
Speaker 4: for millennials who want to sort out their career. Today
1:04
Speaker 4: is a little bit of a different episode. I'm joined
1:07
Speaker 4: by Misress Gricci. Hello, but i also have the team
1:11
Speaker 4: from my millennial money or should I say more specifically,
1:14
Speaker 4: the sort your Career team out, Shelley Johnson and unfortunately Glenn.
1:20
Speaker 5: Jack Yes, welcome Glenn, Hey, thanks for having us.
1:25
Speaker 4: I'm so excited to have you, Shelley, Glenn, I'm flattered
1:28
Speaker 4: that you made the time.
1:30
Speaker 2: I'm not the career expert. I'm just for you put
1:33
Speaker 2: your name on the book.
1:36
Speaker 5: Well, how much as a percentage of the book, how
1:38
Speaker 5: much do you reckon you wrote of it?
1:39
Speaker 2: Forty five?
1:41
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, all right, Joe, did you let him put
1:44
Speaker 4: his name on forty five percent of your own work?
1:46
Speaker 5: Well? Yes? And also there was this one night we
1:49
Speaker 5: were writing the book and Glenn was in there and
1:51
Speaker 5: I was in It would have been about eleven thirty
1:52
Speaker 5: at night, we're writing away. He's writing his section on
1:56
Speaker 5: mindset and I'm going through editing out.
1:59
Speaker 6: His yea like live Google, backspace.
2:07
Speaker 2: Your own chapters before you come and fix.
2:09
Speaker 4: My Yes, I don't know about fixed completely rewrite is it?
2:12
Speaker 2: Basically? So I'm just here for the hangs.
2:14
Speaker 4: Well, Shelle is here to celebrate the launch, which is
2:18
Speaker 4: kind of recent but like it's been around a little while.
2:21
Speaker 4: Your book sought your career out, which I am so
2:24
Speaker 4: excited about. I'm also really devastated. I actually called Maddie
2:28
Speaker 4: on the way here and was like, Hey, I forgot
2:30
Speaker 4: my book? Can you find another one? She's like, I
2:32
Speaker 4: do not have time to go and get it. So
2:33
Speaker 4: I couldn't even get it signed because do you know
2:35
Speaker 4: who signed my book?
2:36
Speaker 5: Glenn.
2:37
Speaker 4: I don't want Glenn's signature in my book. Now I've
2:39
Speaker 4: worked out that it was all your work. Shelley.
2:41
Speaker 5: Well, you know what, I'll send you a coffee that
2:43
Speaker 5: just has my name on it.
2:45
Speaker 4: I'll dispose of the other one appropriately.
2:48
Speaker 6: I love that.
2:49
Speaker 4: But we're here because our community is obsessed with career
2:52
Speaker 4: questions at the moment, and I feel like in this
2:55
Speaker 4: current environment, obviously careers are really hard. People are asking
2:59
Speaker 4: for pay rise, we're not getting them. We're feeling like
3:01
Speaker 4: our employer might be taking the mickey a little bit
3:04
Speaker 4: when it comes to work life balance. There are just
3:06
Speaker 4: so many career questions that She's on. The money has
3:09
Speaker 4: kind of pivoted a little bit, and we are addressing
3:11
Speaker 4: a lot of them. But who better to get than
3:15
Speaker 4: you shall to talk about career and answer a whole
3:18
Speaker 4: heap of questions from our community. But first things first,
3:22
Speaker 4: why do we trust you when it comes to career advice?
3:24
Speaker 4: Like what if you've got a good career or something?
3:26
Speaker 5: That is a really good question. I don't think anyone's
3:28
Speaker 5: answering that question before, So why do you trust me?
3:31
Speaker 5: I've got two answers to this. The first answer is
3:34
Speaker 5: I've worke in HR for the last ten years, so
3:36
Speaker 5: I've seen the employer's side, and I think for many
3:39
Speaker 5: people when we're talking about careers, we don't understand what
3:42
Speaker 5: employers are looking for or the things that can make
3:45
Speaker 5: us stand out for an employer in order to get
3:48
Speaker 5: a promotion, to get a pay rise, to maybe change careers.
3:51
Speaker 5: So one of my things is taking all those secrets
3:54
Speaker 5: that are in HR and sharing them love. And the
3:58
Speaker 5: second thing that or may not make me credible is that.
4:03
Speaker 4: He wrote a book. Well, I wrote a book that
4:04
Speaker 4: makes you legit. I wrote like three of them, and
4:07
Speaker 4: now people are like, wow, she's an author, and that's
4:09
Speaker 4: what I hang my hat on. And you absolutely should. No,
4:12
Speaker 4: it makes no sense, but yeah, come up with something
4:14
Speaker 4: better than the book.
4:15
Speaker 5: Yeah, what was Well, I had a major career crisis.
4:18
Speaker 5: So I went through a career crisis. Right when Glenn
4:22
Speaker 5: called and said, hey, how are you? I was on
4:26
Speaker 5: the streets of Sydney. He calls me up, or I
4:29
Speaker 5: might have called you. I can't remember the context, but anyway,
4:31
Speaker 5: in Sydney he calls me and I said, hey, I've
4:34
Speaker 5: just quit my job. He's like, oh, right, what are
4:37
Speaker 5: you going to do now, and I'm.
4:38
Speaker 4: Like, that's very Glenn. Oh right, that's nice.
4:40
Speaker 5: Yeah, not much emphathiicy right now, Glenn. And I was like,
4:45
Speaker 5: I don't have anything planned, like I've got no other
4:46
Speaker 5: job to go to. But I just knew I wasn't
4:48
Speaker 5: in the stone space and I had to finish what
4:51
Speaker 5: I was doing and move out of that fairly quickly,
4:53
Speaker 5: and so I didn't have another job to go to.
4:55
Speaker 6: I was obviously quite stress It's a stressful.
4:57
Speaker 5: Position to be in. And Glenn go, you know what
5:00
Speaker 5: I reckon, we should do go on the boat that
5:03
Speaker 5: and we should write a careers book. And I was like,
5:07
Speaker 5: I can't write a career's book right now, like I'm unemployed.
5:10
Speaker 4: Like you've got a heap of time to write about it.
5:12
Speaker 5: Well, that's his logic. I was like, I can't, like
5:15
Speaker 5: I'm having my own career crisis. But I think what
5:17
Speaker 5: happened in that moment was, well, we got the book deal.
5:20
Speaker 5: Wiley came through and said let's do it, and we're like, okay, well,
5:24
Speaker 5: this is the right time to write it because you're
5:26
Speaker 5: going through the stuff that people need to hear about
5:29
Speaker 5: in their career.
5:29
Speaker 4: Raw and it's real and if you're going.
5:31
Speaker 5: Through a career crisis right now, maybe you've been made redundant,
5:34
Speaker 5: maybe you're having a tough time with toxic culture. Those
5:38
Speaker 5: things can be really painful. And for me, going through
5:41
Speaker 5: that process and then writing the book helped me to
5:44
Speaker 5: realize and have empathy for where people are at and
5:46
Speaker 5: how to get out of those moments and move forward
5:49
Speaker 5: and build a career that you love, which has been
5:51
Speaker 5: the case for me. And so I know that lots
5:53
Speaker 5: of people reading the book are having the same experience.
5:56
Speaker 6: I love that.
5:56
Speaker 4: I feel like, for once in his life, Glen was
5:58
Speaker 4: correct and that was really good idea.
6:02
Speaker 5: You are getting roasted.
6:04
Speaker 4: That's why we're here.
6:04
Speaker 2: They call me punchy because I'm a punching back.
6:08
Speaker 4: Bring good jokes.
6:11
Speaker 5: What did you ring?
6:12
Speaker 4: I feel like I always end up in trouble if
6:14
Speaker 4: I roasted Glenn, So just yeah, I always do. I
6:17
Speaker 4: get so always like, oh, Victoria is so mean to Glenn.
6:22
Speaker 4: I'm like, do you realize that this banter that you're
6:24
Speaker 4: hearing it.
6:27
Speaker 1: Offline?
6:27
Speaker 4: And both ways? Like stop bullying me? How about you
6:31
Speaker 4: start coming for Glenn? And how nasty pasty he is
6:34
Speaker 4: to me? Sometimes I feel like this is our friendship
6:37
Speaker 4: showing I do actually adore Glenn. I think he is great.
6:40
Speaker 4: We won't go too much into it because he already
6:42
Speaker 4: has a big enough ego.
6:43
Speaker 6: Do you think it's like.
6:44
Speaker 5: A brother sister relationship dad.
6:47
Speaker 2: Mom and dad, mom and dad brother in front of
6:52
Speaker 2: the kids.
6:52
Speaker 4: We definitely do.
6:54
Speaker 2: We should answer some questions.
6:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's answer some questions, because earlier this week, Jess
6:58
Speaker 4: jumped into our Facebook group and said, Hey, we've got
7:01
Speaker 4: some really exciting guests coming into the studio to talk
7:04
Speaker 4: all about Korea. So we're kind of like clickbaiting it
7:07
Speaker 4: because we really wanted this to go well. But what
7:10
Speaker 4: we got from that are some killer questions. Jess, what
7:13
Speaker 4: is the first question that you want Shell and maybe
7:15
Speaker 4: Glenn to address?
7:17
Speaker 6: First? One I have comes from Imagen and it says
7:19
Speaker 6: I hear a lot about looking at what your role
7:21
Speaker 6: in another company pays as a technique for pain negotiations.
7:25
Speaker 6: I've looked on seek and on LinkedIn, but most roles
7:28
Speaker 6: don't disclose the salary. Are there websites where I can
7:31
Speaker 6: find this kind of information?
7:33
Speaker 4: Great question, Jo said?
7:34
Speaker 6: I replied to that, I was like, that's a really
7:36
Speaker 6: good question.
7:36
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's cut and base that one as well.
7:39
Speaker 5: Get it. So there's a few things you can do.
7:41
Speaker 5: And yes, there are ways that you can get that
7:44
Speaker 5: salary data. It's a really helpful thing to understand where
7:48
Speaker 5: your current pay is in relation to roles externally. So
7:51
Speaker 5: I think this is a good thing for most of
7:53
Speaker 5: us to get an understanding of. So Hayes have some
7:57
Speaker 5: great salary data across a range of industries that's public accessible,
8:00
Speaker 5: so you download.
8:01
Speaker 4: About them all the time.
8:02
Speaker 5: How good are they get?
8:03
Speaker 4: They actually slid into my DMS the other week. Sorry,
8:05
Speaker 4: Hayes if you're listening to this, I haven't replied because
8:07
Speaker 4: I have ADHD and I forgot.
8:10
Speaker 5: You know, Hayes would be great to sponsor the podcast,
8:12
Speaker 5: right all my millennial career.
8:15
Speaker 4: All right, I'll slide back into their dms, so let
8:18
Speaker 4: them know. You guys are key.
8:20
Speaker 6: I see one podcast and I raise you three.
8:24
Speaker 5: So I would be getting access to that. The other
8:27
Speaker 5: thing you can do is jump on to a range
8:31
Speaker 5: of salary Survey does so Glassdoor pay Scale, and one
8:35
Speaker 5: of the things I encourage anyone to do is get
8:37
Speaker 5: a range of sources. So don't just go for one
8:41
Speaker 5: salary data set. Get a couple, and then you get
8:45
Speaker 5: to kind of get a sense of what does the
8:46
Speaker 5: market look like, what might be the high end of
8:49
Speaker 5: the market rate, and what might be the middle point
8:52
Speaker 5: and the low point, And then you get a full
8:54
Speaker 5: sense of what the salary range is and you can
8:57
Speaker 5: use that in your pay discussions. Now, there's a couple
9:00
Speaker 5: of things you need to consider when you're talking about
9:02
Speaker 5: pay with your employer, and one of them is, Okay,
9:05
Speaker 5: what's happening externally with the salary market, but what is
9:09
Speaker 5: my role and how does my role compare to those
9:13
Speaker 5: roles externally as well? Because it's not a cookie cutter exercise, No.
9:17
Speaker 4: It's so important. Actually, I love what you said about
9:20
Speaker 4: getting a few examples because I'm the queen of one
9:23
Speaker 4: and done. Like, I'll go online and I'll find one answer,
9:25
Speaker 4: and I'll be like tick. And that could shoot me
9:28
Speaker 4: in the foot for two reasons. One, it could be
9:30
Speaker 4: severely undervaluing me, but it also could give me an
9:33
Speaker 4: unrealistic expectation of what that role pays. So I think
9:36
Speaker 4: that getting a few is really important and actually puts you,
9:39
Speaker 4: I guess, back in the control seat. But like, for example,
9:43
Speaker 4: for your second part of that answer, you said, it's
9:46
Speaker 4: really important to understand the role. How many executive assistants
9:49
Speaker 4: are there. They all have different job responsibilities. Like some
9:53
Speaker 4: people might be an EA and it's much simpler. Some
9:56
Speaker 4: people might be an EA and it's an exec and
9:58
Speaker 4: you're managing a plothought of executives and it's so hands
10:02
Speaker 4: on that it's crazy. So I think it's important to
10:05
Speaker 4: look into the job description and you really understand it.
10:08
Speaker 4: Because how many times do you go, oh, I own
10:11
Speaker 4: you know eighty K, my friend who's an EA that's
10:14
Speaker 4: the same job title earns one fifty, what the hell like?
10:17
Speaker 4: And then you feel like you're being disadvantage and that
10:19
Speaker 4: you're not being valued, when in reality, your role could
10:23
Speaker 4: be valued at exactly what you're getting paid.
10:25
Speaker 5: The other thing to consider in that is what's the
10:27
Speaker 5: annual revenue of the business you're in, Because you might
10:30
Speaker 5: be an EA in a small business that's turning over
10:33
Speaker 5: ten million dollars a year and your salary might be
10:37
Speaker 5: you know, seventy five K. But if you're an EA
10:40
Speaker 5: in a five hundred million dollar organization, and it's much
10:43
Speaker 5: more complex because of the scale, because of the nature
10:46
Speaker 5: of the business, your salary might be at that higher end,
10:48
Speaker 5: and so there's a few different things we need to
10:51
Speaker 5: weigh up, and that's why I love getting multiple data
10:54
Speaker 5: sources for this type of thing. The other thing that
10:56
Speaker 5: I love and I would always recommend people do when
10:58
Speaker 5: they're having pay negotiations, come in and say to your boss, So, Vitoria,
11:02
Speaker 5: let's say you're my.
11:03
Speaker 4: Boss, I'd be a terrible boss for you, but yes.
11:06
Speaker 6: I'm lucky for anybody.
11:08
Speaker 5: Yeah, imagine I might be a terrible employee. So it
11:12
Speaker 5: goes both ways. So I would come in and say, hey,
11:14
Speaker 5: we'd love to talk to you about a pay increase.
11:17
Speaker 5: I'll give you one, thank you, one hundred grand increase please, Okay,
11:21
Speaker 5: no worries.
11:22
Speaker 4: I feel awkward and want to get out of this situation,
11:24
Speaker 4: like get me up.
11:25
Speaker 5: So I would come in with a range and say
11:27
Speaker 5: i'd be considering between seventy and seventy five is the
11:32
Speaker 5: increase that I'm kind of looking for. If you're currently
11:34
Speaker 5: on sixty five, you want to move up to seventy,
11:36
Speaker 5: So give them a range to work with rather than
11:38
Speaker 5: a set number. But I think when we go in
11:40
Speaker 5: with a number in mind, it's quite fixed, and that
11:42
Speaker 5: means that employer feels kind of cornered into well, I
11:45
Speaker 5: only have this one figure to work with. But if
11:47
Speaker 5: you go in with a salary range, that can really
11:50
Speaker 5: help them to feel like you're more open. If the
11:53
Speaker 5: business doesn't have the financial capacity to meet the higher
11:56
Speaker 5: end that you're after, well you can still get maybe
11:59
Speaker 5: that lower end. They're able to make that work.
12:01
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, that's really good advice. So I feel like
12:04
Speaker 4: the range is something that a lot of people don't
12:06
Speaker 4: consider because you did all that research right, and I
12:09
Speaker 4: deep dived into what I wanted and how I wanted it.
12:11
Speaker 4: I am set on seventy five. But going with the
12:14
Speaker 4: range kind of puts you back in the control seats,
12:17
Speaker 4: saying my role is actually between this which one are
12:19
Speaker 4: you going to choose? And I think that that's power
12:22
Speaker 4: move shell.
12:23
Speaker 7: Can you talk to positioning because you know, if I'm
12:26
Speaker 7: wearing an employer hat.
12:28
Speaker 4: Which you do because you employer so many employer for.
12:31
Speaker 7: People, Yeah, it's a nice hat. I think it's just
12:34
Speaker 7: so important that you know. It's human nature. No one
12:37
Speaker 7: likes to get backed against the wall. We don't like
12:40
Speaker 7: showdowns or shakedowns or whatever. Talk to us about the
12:43
Speaker 7: approach if image and did want to do some research
12:46
Speaker 7: and then chat with the employer. How does she position
12:50
Speaker 7: that in a non threatening you know, give me this
12:53
Speaker 7: or I'm going not none of that stuff, but like.
12:56
Speaker 5: A amazing Well you actually speak to this so well
12:58
Speaker 5: in the book because you talk.
13:00
Speaker 4: About in his two percent contribution.
13:03
Speaker 5: It's amazing. The part on pay negotiations is so solid.
13:06
Speaker 5: There's a couple of things. You need to give your
13:08
Speaker 5: boss lead time. So an employer has so many things
13:13
Speaker 5: going on in their head that they have budgets that
13:15
Speaker 5: are set sometimes a year in advance, So we need
13:17
Speaker 5: to consider it from their perspective. So, if Glenn, you're
13:20
Speaker 5: my boss, sorry again, I would be meeting with you
13:22
Speaker 5: in my regular one on one. Let's say we catch
13:24
Speaker 5: up monthly for a regular one on one. I would
13:27
Speaker 5: say to you in that next one on one, Hey, Glenn,
13:29
Speaker 5: I've just been thinking about my role. I'd love to
13:31
Speaker 5: discuss my performance and maybe looking at a pay review.
13:35
Speaker 5: Could we schedule that in and our next one on one.
13:38
Speaker 5: So I'm giving you a long lead.
13:40
Speaker 4: Time because I'm out.
13:43
Speaker 5: And so that means that you then have a heads
13:47
Speaker 5: up of what I want to talk about. And it's
13:48
Speaker 5: not just pay it's also your performance, because if I'm
13:52
Speaker 5: just doing the bare minimum of my job, really I
13:55
Speaker 5: don't think I deserve a pay rise.
13:57
Speaker 4: I are, And it's so awkward having that conversation with
13:59
Speaker 4: himployees who were like, well, i've been here for twelve months.
14:03
Speaker 4: How would you counter that from I guess the perspective
14:07
Speaker 4: we're she's on the money and we want to empower
14:10
Speaker 4: our community, who are mostly employees. What if I'm of
14:13
Speaker 4: that mindset, well, well, I've been with the business for
14:15
Speaker 4: twelve months, so I'm probably due a pay rise. How
14:18
Speaker 4: do we have that conversation kindly to say, well, actually,
14:21
Speaker 4: you really need to look at your performance.
14:23
Speaker 2: Yeah.
14:23
Speaker 7: I like to say, be careful what you wish for
14:26
Speaker 7: in like every circumstance of your life. But like I
14:29
Speaker 7: just imagine, like if someone wasn't self aware with their
14:31
Speaker 7: own role and they're like, oh, everyone else is getting
14:34
Speaker 7: a pay rise, I'm going to go and ask one.
14:38
Speaker 7: It could be like, well, I'm glad you've brought these
14:41
Speaker 7: up because you're not pulling away.
14:44
Speaker 4: It's happened to me before I've had to say that
14:46
Speaker 4: to an employee they no longer work for me. And
14:49
Speaker 4: this was a long time ago, so good luck pinpointing
14:51
Speaker 4: that one. But it was a really uncomfortable conversation because
14:55
Speaker 4: if you've ever employed people, it's kind of like sometimes
14:58
Speaker 4: you just don't say something about something because you can't
15:01
Speaker 4: be bothered with that argument. Done is better than perfect.
15:05
Speaker 4: At this point in time, I have so many competing priorities.
15:08
Speaker 4: I'm not interested in that conversation. They're getting it done.
15:11
Speaker 4: But when you do ask that question, Glenn and sit
15:15
Speaker 4: down and go, well, actually I want to pay rise,
15:16
Speaker 4: you kind of have to go, Okay, let's talk about
15:20
Speaker 4: your performance, because unfortunately I can't grant you that. But
15:23
Speaker 4: also like, while we're here, let's actually have a really
15:27
Speaker 4: good conversation about what my expectations are because you opened
15:30
Speaker 4: I guess the box of tricks, and now we need
15:32
Speaker 4: to have that conversation because right now you're not meeting
15:34
Speaker 4: expectations and I have, you know, maybe been a little
15:38
Speaker 4: bit slack and letting it slide. But we need to
15:40
Speaker 4: be on the same page. And the fact that you're
15:42
Speaker 4: asking for a pay rise means to me that you
15:44
Speaker 4: can't see that. And I thought that in your position,
15:47
Speaker 4: you might be able to see that things weren't meeting expectation,
15:50
Speaker 4: and by you asking me, it's telling me you really don't.
15:52
Speaker 4: So I need to help you through this, and it's
15:55
Speaker 4: very uncomfortable. I think that is such a good point.
15:59
Speaker 5: Both of your raised this idea of if you want
16:01
Speaker 5: to pay rise, really you need to be exceeding the
16:05
Speaker 5: expectations of your role. So you're being paid for a
16:08
Speaker 5: role that's got a dollar figure signed to it based
16:10
Speaker 5: on the value that that role delivers. And so if
16:12
Speaker 5: you want to achieve let's say you're after a ten
16:15
Speaker 5: k pay rise, we would need to be able to
16:18
Speaker 5: show how are you delivering over that ten k in
16:22
Speaker 5: value to the business. If you can demonstrate that, it's
16:25
Speaker 5: a no brainer for the business because they're like, it
16:27
Speaker 5: costs me to go and rehire you if you were
16:30
Speaker 5: to leave. I want to keep my good people. So yeah, cool,
16:33
Speaker 5: let's have that conversation. But we need to be able
16:35
Speaker 5: to demonstrate not just what the external salary kind of
16:38
Speaker 5: market is doing. We need to demonstrate how am I
16:41
Speaker 5: delivering value in this business so that your business case
16:44
Speaker 5: is strong and it's a no brainer for the employer.
16:48
Speaker 5: But to Glenn's point, if you come in and hey,
16:49
Speaker 5: three months ago, you've got a written warning probably not
16:52
Speaker 5: a good time to ask for a pay rise.
16:54
Speaker 4: Right read the room.
16:56
Speaker 7: I think it does kind of, And you know, we
16:57
Speaker 7: could probably move on because there's a good question here
17:00
Speaker 7: from Live about CVS and image, and we will send
17:03
Speaker 7: you a copy of the book Sort your Money Out.
17:05
Speaker 4: That's Glenn's marketing strategy. Everybody who gets their question answered
17:08
Speaker 4: on the show today, we're going to send you one
17:10
Speaker 4: of Glenn's books because apparently okay, but you're trying to
17:14
Speaker 4: own this.
17:17
Speaker 2: I'm just giving away books.
17:21
Speaker 5: Anyone who wants to learn about pay needs to read
17:23
Speaker 5: your chapter.
17:25
Speaker 7: But all I was going to say is like the
17:28
Speaker 7: question about because we said all the time people ask
17:31
Speaker 7: like I'm in an award role or I'm in a
17:33
Speaker 7: pay band with the government of the question, is it
17:36
Speaker 7: like it may transition to a career question, not a
17:41
Speaker 7: job question, because there could be roles where the employer
17:45
Speaker 7: or the company just can't pay extra for that position
17:49
Speaker 7: and now it's just a.
17:50
Speaker 2: You've outgrown them career.
17:52
Speaker 1: Yeah.
17:52
Speaker 4: I was literally about to say the same thing, Jess.
17:54
Speaker 4: And it's not a bad thing for you to outgrow
17:56
Speaker 4: a role. Sometimes you've got everything out of that role
17:59
Speaker 4: and you've reached the top and there's.
18:01
Speaker 2: Lead with grace and yeah, it's all awesome.
18:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that makes me uncomfortable, so I don't really
18:06
Speaker 4: want to do that. And the easier thing is to
18:07
Speaker 4: ask for a pay rise and then be a bit
18:09
Speaker 4: salty that I'm not getting it. And sometimes the cold
18:12
Speaker 4: hard truth of well, actually, for you to get that
18:14
Speaker 4: pay rise, you actually need to leave is the reality.
18:18
Speaker 4: And it sucks because sometimes you love the culture and
18:20
Speaker 4: you love the business and it makes so much sense
18:22
Speaker 4: and it aligns to your goals, but it's not serving
18:25
Speaker 4: you in the way that you're telling me it needs to.
18:27
Speaker 4: So sometimes you do have to move on speaking.
18:30
Speaker 6: Which moving on that great question that lives sent through says,
18:35
Speaker 6: would it be great to know more tips and tricks
18:37
Speaker 6: on how to make your application look good enough to
18:40
Speaker 6: get interviews? I've discovered, particularly as you try to move
18:43
Speaker 6: up in your career, application seevs and cover letters are
18:46
Speaker 6: often laid out differently or presented differently, and I feel
18:49
Speaker 6: like I fall shot on paper. And I'm so curious
18:51
Speaker 6: to hear your answer, because I've heard very conflicting opinions
18:54
Speaker 6: on whether or not the visual of those things matters.
18:58
Speaker 4: I would just send them a picture of your cat,
19:00
Speaker 4: and that's.
19:01
Speaker 6: Very like spot. Yeah, that's very like to work.
19:05
Speaker 4: In fact, ask Annalisa what we spoke about in her
19:07
Speaker 4: first interview. It was her cat and I was like, wow,
19:10
Speaker 4: you are my people come this way? Would you like
19:12
Speaker 4: the job of producer? Hied it? I mean, we also
19:17
Speaker 4: like to CV and she's actually incredibly talented. But that's
19:20
Speaker 4: not the point, is it.
19:21
Speaker 5: Well, that's the values alignment. Oh yes, So a couple
19:26
Speaker 5: of things visually. Let's talk about that first, because that's
19:28
Speaker 5: what you're interesting. Yeah. So I think there's a couple
19:31
Speaker 5: of great designs on like Etsy that are simple, that
19:34
Speaker 5: are visually beautiful, and I think you can get them.
19:36
Speaker 4: They're like really cheap, They're like a couple of bucks usually.
19:39
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I personally think you should find something that
19:41
Speaker 5: reflects your personality. So if you want to show up
19:44
Speaker 5: with a bit of personality, that's to me really good.
19:47
Speaker 5: There is some things visually that the recruiter or the
19:50
Speaker 5: hiring manager or HR person want to see. It needs
19:52
Speaker 5: to be simple, so simple enough to read through quickly,
19:55
Speaker 5: because if you imagine a recruiter or HR are looking
19:58
Speaker 5: at this for possibly one minute, they're doing the super
20:01
Speaker 5: quick scan and they're trying to shortlist. So your goal
20:05
Speaker 5: is get yourself onto the yes or the maybe pile.
20:08
Speaker 5: So keep your CV and your cover letter clear and concise.
20:14
Speaker 5: This is the biggest part. I read an application the
20:16
Speaker 5: other day of someone who had eight pages.
20:18
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, as I please.
20:19
Speaker 5: No, no, no, no, I'm.
20:20
Speaker 4: Not going to go through that. But that also tells
20:22
Speaker 4: me that you don't know how to clarify information and really,
20:26
Speaker 4: I guess summarize it down, which to me is a
20:29
Speaker 4: very important skill.
20:30
Speaker 5: Totally, So we want it to be really clear, concise,
20:34
Speaker 5: and specific to that employer. And that's the big one.
20:36
Speaker 5: I don't like the copy paste applications. I like when
20:39
Speaker 5: people have done it where they've tailored it to the
20:41
Speaker 5: actual business. So their cover letters should be tailored to
20:44
Speaker 5: the business. Talk about the business values in your cover letter.
20:46
Speaker 5: If you google them, you look on their website and
20:48
Speaker 5: it says one of their values is integrity.
20:52
Speaker 6: Talk about that, talk about how.
20:53
Speaker 5: You align with that, and that can really make you
20:56
Speaker 5: stand out from everyone else. I also think you should
21:00
Speaker 5: show a little bit of personality. That's just my preference.
21:02
Speaker 5: I like that people come in and talk about what
21:05
Speaker 5: makes them stand out.
21:06
Speaker 4: I feel like I look as an employer for a
21:09
Speaker 4: few different things, but it's not really what I'm looking for, right,
21:12
Speaker 4: it's what I'm seeing and going absolutely no. Like if
21:15
Speaker 4: in the job description I've said address the cover letter too,
21:19
Speaker 4: I would expect that to be followed. And if you
21:22
Speaker 4: haven't followed it and you've just put a to whom
21:24
Speaker 4: it may concern, I'm like, cool, So you don't have
21:27
Speaker 4: good attention to detail. If I've asked you to attach
21:30
Speaker 4: a cover letter and a resume and you only attach
21:33
Speaker 4: your resume and don't bother with a cover letter, I'm like, cool,
21:37
Speaker 4: you don't have good attention to detail and you haven't
21:39
Speaker 4: followed the process that I've asked you to follow. To me,
21:42
Speaker 4: those are really quick ways for me to just like
21:44
Speaker 4: wipe your resume off the table because you haven't listened
21:47
Speaker 4: and I need someone who follows attention to detail. If
21:51
Speaker 4: you're listening to this podcast as well, shall I do
21:53
Speaker 4: something real cheeky in my life? You're gonna give it away,
21:56
Speaker 4: I'll do it because if you've listened this far, then
21:58
Speaker 4: I feel like you deserve to know. Sorry, So in
22:01
Speaker 4: my job descriptions, if I'm like advertising on LinkedIn, and
22:03
Speaker 4: you can go find this literally right now, because I
22:06
Speaker 4: am advertising at the moment for a few roles. Halfway through,
22:10
Speaker 4: it will explain in the about you section, it'll be like,
22:14
Speaker 4: you have a high attention to detail this that the other.
22:16
Speaker 4: Then it will say you understand that to apply for
22:18
Speaker 4: this job, you have to use the email that's at
22:21
Speaker 4: the bottom of this advertisement and address it to Victoria
22:24
Speaker 4: and send an email directly, including a cover letter and
22:28
Speaker 4: this and that and whatever I'm asking for. Like recently,
22:30
Speaker 4: I've been hiring a copywriter, so I asked for a
22:33
Speaker 4: cover letter, a resume, and a portfolio of work, and
22:36
Speaker 4: then at the bottom I put my email. If you
22:38
Speaker 4: apply directly on LinkedIn, I don't even look at it
22:40
Speaker 4: because you did not follow the directions. And I mean,
22:43
Speaker 4: that's I guess, a very entitled way to recruit. But
22:48
Speaker 4: Glenn will be the same when we recruit. Because we're
22:51
Speaker 4: in media and because we are I guess so visible,
22:54
Speaker 4: we do get a high volume of applicants. And to me,
22:57
Speaker 4: that's a really easy way to go. I've already cut
22:59
Speaker 4: it in half, and I feel like that's real cheeky,
23:02
Speaker 4: and I shouldn't have admitted that.
23:03
Speaker 6: But I love that. I love that.
23:05
Speaker 5: I think a lot of organizations who get a high
23:08
Speaker 5: volume of applications have a couple of little hoops that
23:11
Speaker 5: they want you to jump through and show that you've
23:13
Speaker 5: done and it's exactly what you said, Hi, Victoria. I
23:17
Speaker 5: don't like when people are like, dear hiring manager. I'm
23:20
Speaker 5: just like, that's a cut and copy cover letter. Don't
23:22
Speaker 5: like it.
23:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, unless there's absolutely no information provided, in which case
23:26
Speaker 4: it would be appropriate to do that. Like, I just
23:29
Speaker 4: think if you know that you're applying to my millennial
23:32
Speaker 4: money to work with Glenn and shall you know their names?
23:35
Speaker 2: You know the trick wire like I call them the
23:37
Speaker 2: truth wires.
23:38
Speaker 4: You've got them to I've never had an original experience.
23:44
Speaker 2: I thought you must have good England skills.
23:47
Speaker 7: No cover letter. I don't even open. I don't actually care.
23:50
Speaker 7: And then if people mention I've got good England, it's like, yeah, you.
23:53
Speaker 5: Get me, you are my people.
23:55
Speaker 4: I did it in my copywriting job. I put an
23:57
Speaker 4: error on purpose and then a few people mentioned it.
24:01
Speaker 4: I was like, ah, because they're like, I also have
24:03
Speaker 4: really good attention to detail. I don't know if it
24:05
Speaker 4: was you trying to trip us up? Or you're trying
24:08
Speaker 4: to make us show that we have a good attention
24:10
Speaker 4: to detail, but you spelt this wrong and I was like, hey,
24:13
Speaker 4: so smart that. Otherwise all the people that skipped that
24:16
Speaker 4: just thought I was really dumb. And that's okay. You
24:19
Speaker 4: think whatever you think, Glenn. What's another absolutely no go
24:23
Speaker 4: that comes up in a resume for you?
24:25
Speaker 2: Just high level?
24:27
Speaker 7: Like and I think it's knowing the organization that you're
24:30
Speaker 7: applying to, Like I've only hired like my last round
24:36
Speaker 7: of hiring, I think there was forty five applications. I
24:40
Speaker 7: sat down with three people, and I sat down with
24:43
Speaker 7: them based off the cover letter only Yep. Agreed, I'm
24:46
Speaker 7: hiring a person, not a position. I love that And
24:49
Speaker 7: that's kind of the That's why we got to know
24:52
Speaker 7: your audience. And if it's the government and bureaucracy, sure
24:57
Speaker 7: it's probably going to be templated and you know different.
25:00
Speaker 7: But if it's small business. The ones who said dear
25:04
Speaker 7: hiring manager, it was that instant, Well, they don't listen
25:07
Speaker 7: to the show. I really want someone who gets what
25:09
Speaker 7: we do.
25:10
Speaker 5: The research part of it is really important. Do your
25:12
Speaker 5: research get on their socials get on their website, read
25:15
Speaker 5: their annual report, do as much research as you can.
25:17
Speaker 5: That's how you stand out. Add all that stuff into
25:19
Speaker 5: the cover letter, and me like, look at me, I
25:21
Speaker 5: know your business because if you use their language, even
25:24
Speaker 5: how they speak, so you use quite colloquial language, I'd
25:28
Speaker 5: be mirroring that in my cover letter because then for you, Glenn,
25:30
Speaker 5: as the employer, you're looking at that going I feel
25:33
Speaker 5: like they know me.
25:34
Speaker 4: Oh I could not agree with that more.
25:36
Speaker 7: And it's a bit weird to read because it's like, oh,
25:38
Speaker 7: they really know me and I don't know them.
25:40
Speaker 4: But it's exactly what you're looking for, right And with
25:43
Speaker 4: this copywriting role, I found the same to be absolutely
25:46
Speaker 4: true because I'm hiring someone that can be fun and
25:49
Speaker 4: a little bit like us, and like I'm hiring for
25:51
Speaker 4: tona voice and the idea that I'm even asked. Yes,
25:54
Speaker 4: she's been asking for this copywriter role for more than
25:56
Speaker 4: twelve months. I haven't let go yet of doing it
25:58
Speaker 4: all myself because I'm like, how will it sound like me?
26:01
Speaker 4: How will it sound like she's on the money if
26:03
Speaker 4: it's not me? And so this idea that people can
26:06
Speaker 4: show me that at the very start. I was like
26:08
Speaker 4: very drawn to a few people just because of that.
26:11
Speaker 7: Yeah, one other tip, don't be afraid to go a
26:14
Speaker 7: little bit further, Like it could be a little video
26:18
Speaker 7: like Hi, you know, I just wanted to say this
26:21
Speaker 7: is who I am, Like, it's not going.
26:22
Speaker 2: To be appropriate. Job.
26:24
Speaker 6: That's what I did.
26:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's doing that thing.
26:27
Speaker 7: You've just got to do what other people don't do
26:29
Speaker 7: one hundred percent, but to your comfort level.
26:31
Speaker 2: Like some people aren't like that, and I would. You're
26:34
Speaker 2: like Jess also.
26:35
Speaker 4: A fully edited, fully curated, and choreographed YouTube.
26:39
Speaker 5: Video, not a dance.
26:40
Speaker 6: I thought you're gonna say choreographed dance and I was like,
26:43
Speaker 6: I didn't do that.
26:43
Speaker 5: No, no she didn't.
26:44
Speaker 4: But it was properly edited and like I had a
26:46
Speaker 4: cover tile and literally every photoshop. But if you're not
26:49
Speaker 4: comfortable with that, absolutely don't do that, because that'll just
26:51
Speaker 4: show that you're not comfortable.
26:53
Speaker 7: But shell, if we go to the other side of
26:55
Speaker 7: the coin, and it is a role that is heavily
26:57
Speaker 7: corporate or government, we really want to get to the
27:00
Speaker 7: point with experience and actually ideally we're looking for xyzed
27:07
Speaker 7: just bam, bam bam, because you just want to get
27:09
Speaker 7: in the door.
27:10
Speaker 5: You've got to curate your experience. Because you only have
27:12
Speaker 5: two pages on your resume. Do not go over two pages.
27:15
Speaker 5: Keep it short and sharp, and curate your experience to
27:18
Speaker 5: what's relevant to that role. So you don't need to
27:20
Speaker 5: put everything in there, but make sure you're hitting on
27:22
Speaker 5: the core requirements that are expressed in that job.
27:26
Speaker 7: At Live will send you a book and in the
27:29
Speaker 7: book things a QR code with templates, cover.
27:32
Speaker 5: Letter and resume. That's cool.
27:36
Speaker 6: Before we go to a really quick break, I have
27:37
Speaker 6: one more question that I really want to get everybody
27:39
Speaker 6: to weigh in on, because there's been a lot of
27:41
Speaker 6: discourse recently in the.
27:42
Speaker 4: Community of that word it do you Oh yeah.
27:44
Speaker 6: Very fun? Victoria ruffled some feathers. So this question comes
27:47
Speaker 6: from Melissa. She said, when in an industry where pay
27:50
Speaker 6: can't be negotiated, let's say, for example, teaching, how can
27:53
Speaker 6: we make ourselves seem a step above others when looking
27:56
Speaker 6: for opportunities. I feel like these fields can seem quite
27:59
Speaker 6: limiting in regard to salary progression without having to increase qualifications.
28:03
Speaker 6: And this came off the back I think of the
28:05
Speaker 6: comment that VD made recently around pay rises and inflation
28:10
Speaker 6: and how if you're not getting a pay rise you're
28:11
Speaker 6: on the back foot.
28:12
Speaker 2: Which, how are we talking about that today? We let Victoria.
28:17
Speaker 4: Blowing the Internet up and making them angry. I was
28:19
Speaker 4: saying to Jess, like, I know I did something because
28:22
Speaker 4: my dms are so nasty.
28:24
Speaker 6: Wow, it made some people angry, And I think there
28:27
Speaker 6: was a real sentiment I think from people who work
28:30
Speaker 6: in careers where they have maybe EBAs in place and
28:33
Speaker 6: things of that nature, where they're like, I don't even
28:35
Speaker 6: really get to negotiate. So I feel like Alissa's question
28:39
Speaker 6: is really relevant because there is a whole chunk of
28:41
Speaker 6: people who maybe aren't in a position like someone like
28:43
Speaker 6: me where you can go, oh, I feel like things
28:45
Speaker 6: are changing. Let's have a conversation about it. So what
28:48
Speaker 6: would you recommend for those kind of people?
28:51
Speaker 5: So you really need to think about your long term career.
28:53
Speaker 5: If you're a teacher or you're in nursing and you
28:55
Speaker 5: have a fixed level of increase, and once you get
28:58
Speaker 5: to the top of that after four years you maxed out,
29:01
Speaker 5: You've got to think, how can I increase my pay
29:04
Speaker 5: if that's what you want to do now. Not everyone wants.
29:06
Speaker 6: To do that.
29:06
Speaker 5: But let's say your goal is to increase your pay.
29:09
Speaker 5: It's what Glenn said before. You need to find a
29:11
Speaker 5: way of changing your career or maybe you look for
29:14
Speaker 5: a management role. So in teaching, you might look for
29:17
Speaker 5: an assistant principal role, like what do I need to
29:19
Speaker 5: get to an assistant principal level? And you plan that out,
29:22
Speaker 5: and you might need to plan it out five years
29:24
Speaker 5: ahead to try and go, well, what are the skills
29:27
Speaker 5: that assistant principles have, what are the things that differentiate them?
29:31
Speaker 5: And therefore, what can I do now in the lead
29:34
Speaker 5: up to that to position myself to stand out. The
29:38
Speaker 5: other thing I'd say for anyone who's in this spot
29:41
Speaker 5: is talk to people who are further along and they're
29:45
Speaker 5: in the position that you want, or they're getting the
29:47
Speaker 5: equivalent pay that you want in your industry, and get
29:50
Speaker 5: their advice on what they did in their career that
29:52
Speaker 5: you can mirror, because often we feel stuck when we're
29:57
Speaker 5: in that enterprise bargaining agreement kind of world where we've
29:59
Speaker 5: got this really fixed, rigid way of getting pay increases.
30:03
Speaker 5: But there are ways around it. And we interviewed for
30:05
Speaker 5: the book someone who is in nursing who told us
30:09
Speaker 5: about they went back. They did go back and study,
30:11
Speaker 5: they got their master's degree and then they ended up
30:14
Speaker 5: as a transition from a nurse to a nurse unit
30:17
Speaker 5: manager and they got quite a significant pay rise that
30:20
Speaker 5: came with their new expectations of the role. So that's
30:23
Speaker 5: some of the ways around it. And I mean, Glenn,
30:26
Speaker 5: what's your take, because you've got a really good perspective
30:28
Speaker 5: on this.
30:28
Speaker 1: Yeah.
30:28
Speaker 7: I actually interviewed somebody who was a nurse and they
30:33
Speaker 7: actually did i think four days a week permanent and
30:39
Speaker 7: then one day a week as a casual in the pool.
30:43
Speaker 7: So by just being a little bit creative, they increase
30:47
Speaker 7: their salary. And you know, it's also nuanced. But I
30:50
Speaker 7: think it all comes down to, yeah, it's a career discussion,
30:53
Speaker 7: not a job discussion. And then secondly, depending on your
30:58
Speaker 7: life stages, if you love what you're doing. You know,
31:01
Speaker 7: I'll be really radical here because I heard about this
31:04
Speaker 7: example the other day. I know someone moving to Melbourne
31:08
Speaker 7: and they're going to be working four days a week
31:10
Speaker 7: with the government. It's the same paysation and it's with
31:18
Speaker 7: the Victorian government four days a week and it's the
31:20
Speaker 7: same salary as new Southwest Government five days a.
31:24
Speaker 2: Week in Melbourne did come back up.
31:28
Speaker 7: We got there and Melbourne rent and house prices a
31:32
Speaker 7: little bit more affordable than Sydney.
31:33
Speaker 4: Sydney's insane.
31:34
Speaker 2: So look, that's a drastic measure as well.
31:37
Speaker 7: You might bring location is a big I mean, I'm
31:41
Speaker 7: not going to pick up and leave my friends and family,
31:43
Speaker 7: but other people might be up for an experience with
31:46
Speaker 7: their career. Doesn't have to be forever. You might have
31:48
Speaker 7: to transfer to Upskill. All I would say is your
31:51
Speaker 7: career is not linear.
31:54
Speaker 2: Is that what you say? I say one of us,
31:56
Speaker 2: I don't know you. She added that talk about yeah,
32:02
Speaker 2: we don't.
32:02
Speaker 5: We've kind of got the idea of just blow up
32:04
Speaker 5: the career ladder. One of the guys on our podcast,
32:06
Speaker 5: Moment in your Career, Ben Carl's, he said, the career
32:09
Speaker 5: ladder is dead. It's a career jungle gym.
32:11
Speaker 6: Fun.
32:12
Speaker 4: Yeah, how just has been treating it?
32:13
Speaker 5: Yeah, totally like go across, fall off the jungle gym,
32:16
Speaker 5: like get back off the shell out.
32:24
Speaker 4: This podcast is over, just like the Alright, I have
32:28
Speaker 4: so many more questions for you guys, and we'll get
32:30
Speaker 4: to them right after this break. All right, Well, you're back,
32:38
Speaker 4: and I feel like, Glenn, the one thing that we
32:40
Speaker 4: were missing on the flip side there was your advice
32:43
Speaker 4: that says, at the end of the day, if you
32:45
Speaker 4: don't like the pay, you can move careers. And I
32:48
Speaker 4: mean it's very dramatic advice to be like, well, if
32:50
Speaker 4: you don't like it, leave and that feels really rude.
32:53
Speaker 4: But at the same time, it's kind of like if
32:55
Speaker 4: you're signing up and I don't mean this in an
32:57
Speaker 4: awful way, and I think the teachers and nurses and
33:00
Speaker 4: everybody in those I guess provider type roles should be
33:03
Speaker 4: paid more. This is not the conversation for that right now.
33:06
Speaker 4: But if you're in a position where as you're saying before, Shelle,
33:10
Speaker 4: it's an eba role, you know what you're getting yourself
33:13
Speaker 4: into when you sign up to do that career and
33:15
Speaker 4: then you're deeply unhappy about it. Maybe that's not the
33:19
Speaker 4: career for you. Maybe we need to pivot it, Maybe
33:21
Speaker 4: we need to shake it on its head and go
33:23
Speaker 4: all right, well, maybe a full time tutoring role where
33:26
Speaker 4: you control what you charge and you control the narrative
33:29
Speaker 4: is going to work better for you. Maybe working in
33:31
Speaker 4: a different sector might work, and I know that that's
33:33
Speaker 4: not I guess the advice that a lot of people
33:36
Speaker 4: want from us, because often what they want from us
33:38
Speaker 4: is the answer that they can go to their employer
33:40
Speaker 4: and be like, actually, you do have to pay me
33:42
Speaker 4: more for what I'm currently doing. Sadly that's not always
33:45
Speaker 4: the case though, right I.
33:47
Speaker 7: Would say, just on that comment, like, with all the
33:50
Speaker 7: financial principles that you teach, you know, if you keep
33:54
Speaker 7: out of consumer debt, have an emergency fund, you know,
33:57
Speaker 7: run a lean budget, do the best you can with
34:00
Speaker 7: what you've got that gives you more options to change
34:03
Speaker 7: if you don't like it in the medium or to
34:07
Speaker 7: the long term.
34:07
Speaker 2: Really, and also think a little bit differently.
34:10
Speaker 7: I interview to another lady on the show the other day,
34:14
Speaker 7: and this was awesome. She was in HR, like literally
34:19
Speaker 7: managing people in HR. She moved to the IT industry
34:24
Speaker 7: and is in HR software now so and she picked
34:29
Speaker 7: up fifty or sixty grand work from home like Flexible,
34:34
Speaker 7: Loving Life, and I'm just like, Yeah, this is what
34:37
Speaker 7: it's all about. And I just think, particularly you know,
34:41
Speaker 7: chapter one, Shell spends so much time on working your values,
34:45
Speaker 7: like what do you value? Because I like to say
34:48
Speaker 7: that it's two edged sword. You know, it's all rainbows
34:52
Speaker 7: and unicorns over here, and that's awesome. We want that.
34:56
Speaker 7: But on the other side, all the money in the
34:58
Speaker 7: world isn't going to keep you were a toxic workplace. Yeah,
35:01
Speaker 7: So it's not always about the money, but it comes
35:05
Speaker 7: to a point where it is. So I think it's
35:07
Speaker 7: just having, you know, good financial foundations behind you and
35:12
Speaker 7: if you're not right there now, hang in there and
35:15
Speaker 7: go okay. Over the next twelve months, I'm working on
35:17
Speaker 7: my emergency fund, I'm paying down debt because I'm going
35:21
Speaker 7: to make a career pivot.
35:22
Speaker 4: I think that's so important. It actually leads into a
35:24
Speaker 4: question from Dione, who's obviously going to get one of
35:27
Speaker 4: Glenn's books as well, and she asks, are there career
35:30
Speaker 4: counselors for adults? How do you find them? How much
35:33
Speaker 4: should you be paying, and what can we expect from them.
35:35
Speaker 4: I think that's such a good question to answer here
35:38
Speaker 4: because it kind of goes you know, Glenn, you were
35:40
Speaker 4: talking about pivoting, but how do we do that if
35:42
Speaker 4: we don't know what we're looking at it? We're overwhelmed
35:44
Speaker 4: And like care's counselor at school, that was really cool.
35:47
Speaker 4: Is that a thing for adults? Shell, please?
35:50
Speaker 5: It's so funny we had them at school because when
35:53
Speaker 5: we're at seventeen years old, we have no idea what
35:55
Speaker 5: we want to do. No, you know, we definitely need
35:58
Speaker 5: career counselors and career coaches later in life. There absolutely are.
36:01
Speaker 5: There's a lot on LinkedIn, so i'd encourage you to
36:03
Speaker 5: jump on LinkedIn search up career coach. You'll find a
36:06
Speaker 5: stack of people who do it. There's also I believe
36:10
Speaker 5: is it Badass Careers. She's in New Zealand. She does
36:13
Speaker 5: some cool stuff. There's some people out there doing some
36:16
Speaker 5: good work in this space, So jump on LinkedIn search
36:19
Speaker 5: career coach and you'll find good people. Pretty sure. It
36:22
Speaker 5: costs like around three point fiftyer session on average, that's
36:25
Speaker 5: my guess.
36:26
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's pretty reasonable. I think to give you enough
36:28
Speaker 6: clarity to kind of go forward and do what you've
36:31
Speaker 6: got to do with your career and figure out where
36:33
Speaker 6: you're going. It's obviously not a small sum of money,
36:36
Speaker 6: but if you look at it as an investment in
36:37
Speaker 6: yourself and in your future, like, maybe that's worth it
36:39
Speaker 6: for you.
36:40
Speaker 5: Well, if that career coach gets you a five grand
36:42
Speaker 5: pay rise.
36:43
Speaker 6: Super worth the money well spent. All right, I'm going
36:46
Speaker 6: to be a little bit selfish and ask some employee
36:49
Speaker 6: centric question. Thats going to steal the mic for a second,
36:51
Speaker 6: if that's okay. I want to start with a question
36:54
Speaker 6: from Zoe, and she said, my boss said to me recently,
36:56
Speaker 6: people get more work opportunities when you're in the office more,
37:00
Speaker 6: not so much when you work remotely.
37:01
Speaker 5: Thoughts on that comment, Oh, this is a banger.
37:05
Speaker 6: I feel like there's a lot of discourse again out
37:08
Speaker 6: there right now on this, and it does sometimes feel
37:11
Speaker 6: like employeers tend to lean one way and employees tend
37:13
Speaker 6: to lean the other.
37:14
Speaker 5: So I'm will guess what's your vibe.
37:16
Speaker 6: I think I'm a champion for flexible work. I always
37:20
Speaker 6: have been. I've worked in roles with literally zero flexibility,
37:23
Speaker 6: and I said post COVID never again, like if a
37:26
Speaker 6: role doesn't off me flexibility in the future, and I'm
37:29
Speaker 6: very thankful that right now mine does. But if a
37:32
Speaker 6: role didn't off me flexibility, I actually wouldn't take it
37:35
Speaker 6: at this point in my career. I don't think that
37:38
Speaker 6: it should be a reflection. I think that if you're
37:40
Speaker 6: working hard and doing what you need to do. If
37:43
Speaker 6: you're not pulling your weight, as you were saying earlier, Glenn,
37:45
Speaker 6: surely that's showing up like things aren't getting done, or
37:48
Speaker 6: things are being missed to deadlines aren't being met, like
37:50
Speaker 6: someone's seeing that you're not doing what you need to
37:52
Speaker 6: do even when you're not sitting at a desk. But
37:56
Speaker 6: I do also think that there is that age old
37:58
Speaker 6: thing of sometimes the people who progress fastest or highest
38:04
Speaker 6: in a company or an industry are ones who are
38:07
Speaker 6: not doing so necessarily because they're the best at their job.
38:10
Speaker 6: It's because they have built relationships with people. It's because
38:14
Speaker 6: they're a networker or a connector they're providing values or vibes,
38:18
Speaker 6: if you will, in other ways. And so if you
38:21
Speaker 6: are working remotely, it's much harder for you to do that.
38:25
Speaker 6: But it's harp because they don't think that that necessarily
38:27
Speaker 6: should be the case.
38:28
Speaker 5: You know, you're so spot on two big things. Visibility matters,
38:33
Speaker 5: So your visibility in the organization matters, and that's why
38:38
Speaker 5: I think there's quite a lot of bias towards people
38:40
Speaker 5: working in the office. So leaders it probably makes their
38:43
Speaker 5: job easier in some ways, and it's this whole thing
38:45
Speaker 5: of if I see you, you must be performing total crap, right,
38:50
Speaker 5: But there's an assumption around that of if you're there,
38:52
Speaker 5: you must be working hard. And I think that's why
38:55
Speaker 5: there's this bias and tendency towards let's get everyone back
38:59
Speaker 5: into the office, because we're all here, we all must
39:01
Speaker 5: be working. Yeah, And the thing I think we need
39:04
Speaker 5: to talk about more is, well, how do we be
39:06
Speaker 5: visible when we're remote working? How do I get proximity
39:09
Speaker 5: to the boss who's making decisions about promotions when I'm
39:12
Speaker 5: working remotely? So we need to be active on zoom, Like,
39:15
Speaker 5: if you're working remotely, turn your camera on. Don't be
39:18
Speaker 5: that person who never turns it on, So show up now.
39:21
Speaker 5: I know there's reasons sometimes maybe people don't turn the
39:24
Speaker 5: cameras on, and that's fine, But what I want you
39:27
Speaker 5: to do is how do I become more visible here?
39:29
Speaker 5: How do I stand out? And yes, going into the
39:32
Speaker 5: office kind of helps you do that. I'm a big,
39:34
Speaker 5: big believer in full time remote work, like I work
39:37
Speaker 5: remotely full time or for it, but I understand why
39:39
Speaker 5: leaders want people to come back into the office. So
39:42
Speaker 5: there's two sides to that coin. I guess my main
39:45
Speaker 5: thing is how do you, to your point, Jess, build relationships,
39:49
Speaker 5: build equity in that business, socially build those networks because
39:53
Speaker 5: they're the things that are going to help you when
39:55
Speaker 5: that promotion opportunity comes up. You want to be front
39:58
Speaker 5: of mind for the decision maker, and the way that
40:01
Speaker 5: you do that is you've been visible, You've demonstrated your credibility,
40:05
Speaker 5: and those things together mean that you land the job.
40:10
Speaker 7: I think as well, the craft or the trade or
40:13
Speaker 7: the occupation that you do that needs to take care
40:17
Speaker 7: of itself. Like, that's the hygiene factor. You're really good
40:21
Speaker 7: at your job. Yeah, and that whole front of mind thing.
40:25
Speaker 7: If it is a remote team, the front of mind
40:28
Speaker 7: stuff will probably more be happening on the social side, like, hey,
40:33
Speaker 7: we all work remote here. I reckon at least once
40:35
Speaker 7: every two weeks. We just come into the city. Whoever
40:38
Speaker 7: can have a coffee. I think the being noticing it
40:41
Speaker 7: doesn't have to be work noticed, it can be social. Yeah,
40:45
Speaker 7: because the hygiene factory is that you've good at your job.
40:48
Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree, Like it should just be a given.
40:50
Speaker 6: How do you manage it? Because your team is pretty
40:52
Speaker 6: much entirely remote and obviously you're on the employer side, like.
40:56
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I've made the call that at least twice
40:59
Speaker 7: a year we come together.
41:01
Speaker 6: I love that.
41:01
Speaker 7: Every Thursday afternoon, because we do a four day work week,
41:04
Speaker 7: we do our afternoon chat. We call it two good
41:06
Speaker 7: Things and everyone goes around and says, what are two
41:10
Speaker 7: good things that have happened this week that are in
41:12
Speaker 7: line with one of our values and why so we
41:15
Speaker 7: do that and then yeah, we do a mid year
41:18
Speaker 7: together and then a Christmas party together. Yeah, increast because
41:20
Speaker 7: it is expensive to fly everyone into gather.
41:23
Speaker 6: They're around the country and not all in the same
41:25
Speaker 6: state where you can kind of all get on a
41:26
Speaker 6: train or get in a car.
41:28
Speaker 7: It definitely would be But I honestly don't think sometimes
41:33
Speaker 7: the fact that you're a remote worker, like the boss
41:36
Speaker 7: that said that to the questioner, you can be present
41:39
Speaker 7: and be a remote team and get those opportunities.
41:42
Speaker 6: Yeah, I like that, changing the old school mindset. Next,
41:45
Speaker 6: I've got one from Melanie who said, when should I
41:48
Speaker 6: move on from a job when I'm not learning more,
41:50
Speaker 6: when I can't get any more pay rises, et cetera.
41:52
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a great question. I've been thinking heaps lately,
41:55
Speaker 5: Jess about this idea of grit or quit, Like, when
41:59
Speaker 5: do you like stick it out and show some grit
42:02
Speaker 5: and stay with an employer and when do you quit?
42:05
Speaker 5: Because it's a really hard thing to know. So there's
42:08
Speaker 5: a couple of signs that you need to stick it
42:11
Speaker 5: out and show some grit. The first thing would be
42:14
Speaker 5: if you haven't quite mastered the role. So if you
42:17
Speaker 5: haven't developed that sense of mastery in the role, I
42:19
Speaker 5: think there's more room for you to learn and grow.
42:22
Speaker 5: So do that sense check of how have I developed here?
42:26
Speaker 5: How have I grown? And the second thing would be
42:29
Speaker 5: do you enjoy it? Do you like the job? Because
42:32
Speaker 5: if you like the job, when you like the people
42:34
Speaker 5: you work with, and you're thinking maybe I need to
42:37
Speaker 5: make a career ladder move, well I challenge you on
42:40
Speaker 5: that because sometimes the whole thing with the career ladder
42:44
Speaker 5: makes us feel like we need to be climbing when
42:46
Speaker 5: really we're happy where we are, but there's this artificial
42:49
Speaker 5: pressure externally that makes us feel like we have to
42:51
Speaker 5: be getting the next promotion, learning the next pay rise.
42:54
Speaker 5: When if you enjoy the place that you work out,
42:57
Speaker 5: if you enjoy the people that you work with, if
42:59
Speaker 5: you've got a good To me, they're all massive ticks,
43:02
Speaker 5: and I would be really thinking whether you know you
43:06
Speaker 5: should be leaving if those are the things you've got.
43:08
Speaker 1: Now.
43:08
Speaker 5: On the flip side, when should you quit a job?
43:11
Speaker 5: There's a few signs. Number one, you've stopped growing. So
43:15
Speaker 5: if you've stopped growing, you're not learning. Those are signs
43:18
Speaker 5: that it might be time to move on or find
43:20
Speaker 5: a different job. The other sign is if you're not
43:24
Speaker 5: getting considered for opportunities. So let's say you're putting your
43:27
Speaker 5: hand up for promotions maybe internally, and you keep getting
43:30
Speaker 5: knocked back. That's a signal that maybe there isn't that
43:34
Speaker 5: room for you to progress there, and in which case
43:37
Speaker 5: maybe a move externally is right. The other thing would
43:39
Speaker 5: be if it's a toxic culture. So signs of a
43:43
Speaker 5: toxic culture would be things like gaslighting, gossip, really a
43:50
Speaker 5: lot of ego deceptive behaviors. Any of those signs, those
43:55
Speaker 5: to me are things where you need to be waving
43:57
Speaker 5: the big red flag and going okay. If management don't
44:00
Speaker 5: want to hear the feedback on the culture, probably some
44:03
Speaker 5: signs that you need to move on.
44:04
Speaker 6: But actually it's really nicely into the next question, which
44:07
Speaker 6: was from Analyse, which said, how do I navigate being
44:10
Speaker 6: overlooked as a young female. I'm often infantilized, underestimated, and
44:14
Speaker 6: uncredited and it's frustrating.
44:16
Speaker 2: That speaks to me about culture.
44:18
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
44:19
Speaker 7: Yeah, because that's ridiculous. I mean, just on that last question,
44:23
Speaker 7: then Shell can answer an Lisa's question. I really think
44:28
Speaker 7: it's important. Like another one is like you're bored, Like
44:33
Speaker 7: I'm being bored lately.
44:34
Speaker 2: It's rotten.
44:35
Speaker 7: I'm doing other things to, you know, stimulate myself. But
44:38
Speaker 7: I think it's so important to run to something, not
44:41
Speaker 7: from something.
44:43
Speaker 6: I like that a lot.
44:44
Speaker 7: So really, you know, dig into the values. You know,
44:47
Speaker 7: chapter one of the book all about values. Go back
44:50
Speaker 7: to your bedrock.
44:51
Speaker 2: What do I value?
44:53
Speaker 7: They might not be in the place that could be
44:55
Speaker 7: making you not fit because you know, I'm an introvert
44:58
Speaker 7: and they want me to dance on the desk every day.
45:03
Speaker 2: Make sure you're just running to something, not from something.
45:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is such good advice. I agree you should
45:08
Speaker 4: writ a book about that.
45:11
Speaker 5: So to an Lisa's question, yeah, you're right, Glenn speaks
45:14
Speaker 5: to culture. Sometimes. I was talking to someone the other day.
45:18
Speaker 5: They work in construction industry, young female, and they had
45:25
Speaker 5: had some challenges I guess with this similar dynamic of
45:28
Speaker 5: not feeling heard in a very male dominated industry and
45:31
Speaker 5: feeling like there's a bit of condescension. And one of
45:35
Speaker 5: my I guess recommendations was sometimes we need to be
45:38
Speaker 5: quite overt in challenging behaviors that I think are not.
45:41
Speaker 6: Okay, call it out, sis, call it out.
45:44
Speaker 5: So I would be specific and go, hey, when you
45:47
Speaker 5: said that that made me feel like my opinion wasn't valued.
45:51
Speaker 5: Or the other day in that meeting, I noticed that
45:54
Speaker 5: you interrupted me, and I feel like my ideas aren't
45:58
Speaker 5: heard here. Can we talk about that? Yeah, because we
46:02
Speaker 5: need to challenge the behavior and often people haven't received
46:05
Speaker 5: that feedback. And I would encourage this person. If you're
46:09
Speaker 5: feeling condescended or like your opinion isn't valid because of
46:12
Speaker 5: your age, your voice matters and we want to hear you.
46:18
Speaker 5: And actually organizations need to hear from their gen Z employees.
46:21
Speaker 5: They need to hear from these younger voices who have
46:25
Speaker 5: great perspective, who have fresh ideas and new insights. They
46:29
Speaker 5: need that and they're missing out by not hearing your perspective,
46:33
Speaker 5: think we need to look at how do we present
46:36
Speaker 5: ideas in a way that sets them up to be received.
46:39
Speaker 5: So maybe watch in your organization for those social cues
46:44
Speaker 5: in meetings and see whose ideas get heard the most
46:48
Speaker 5: and why, and understand what are some of the dynamics
46:51
Speaker 5: that are going on. Just observe and see what that
46:54
Speaker 5: tells you about the culture, because that can give you
46:56
Speaker 5: insights into Okay, is it the way that I'm presenting
46:59
Speaker 5: the idea or is it simply that these people aren't
47:02
Speaker 5: going to hear me, in which case probably don't want
47:04
Speaker 5: to stay their long term.
47:05
Speaker 7: And I would say to all the you know, business
47:08
Speaker 7: owners that are listening, because you've got a lot of
47:10
Speaker 7: people that we do own businesses and employee people. A
47:14
Speaker 7: lot of the times, people who run businesses, we're just
47:18
Speaker 7: steamrollers by nature, right. And what I did was, you know,
47:23
Speaker 7: got Shell into facilitate a session with my team. And
47:28
Speaker 7: I was just one of the team.
47:30
Speaker 4: So I shut my trap, and you did.
47:35
Speaker 2: One of our employees.
47:37
Speaker 7: You know, they're meet quiet, and you know that person
47:41
Speaker 7: got to say some really gold stuff that might not
47:45
Speaker 7: have come out if Michael.
47:50
Speaker 6: Scott or they like it can be intimidating As an employee,
47:53
Speaker 6: it can definitely be intimidating raising things. Culture is no
47:58
Speaker 6: matter how supportive somebody, if you've.
47:59
Speaker 2: Got a something and Shell can probably speak so.
48:02
Speaker 5: But like.
48:05
Speaker 7: You've got to slowly practice in your career to not
48:09
Speaker 7: one put up with crap and that takes a bit of.
48:12
Speaker 2: Time and courage and courage.
48:14
Speaker 7: And you know, the question I would say, if it
48:17
Speaker 7: is appropriate, can you talk with your boss even if
48:20
Speaker 7: it's over a coffee or go for a walk, so
48:22
Speaker 7: it's on mutual territory and go, hey, I got to
48:25
Speaker 7: ask you something really awkward, like is it just me?
48:28
Speaker 7: I don't know, Like we're not saying I don't know,
48:31
Speaker 7: I just communication and Shell, we've got a.
48:33
Speaker 5: Really good episode that I point you to or my
48:36
Speaker 5: millennial career. It's having tough conversations with your boss. And
48:39
Speaker 5: so it's how do we do those conversations well upwards
48:42
Speaker 5: because they're challenging and we feel nervous to bring feedback.
48:46
Speaker 5: But again I'll say, your voice matters, and we actually
48:50
Speaker 5: leaders need to hear this truth.
48:52
Speaker 7: So and the truth is, you know that questioner could
48:56
Speaker 7: work for some misogynists. Who doesn't you her and she
49:00
Speaker 7: needs to get out of there yesterday. Yeah, well that's also.
49:03
Speaker 6: It is absolutely a chance. And if you are a
49:07
Speaker 6: business owner and you do want to get someone out,
49:08
Speaker 6: Shallie's fantastic and very welcoming. So we'll have the link
49:11
Speaker 6: in the show notes so you can check out and
49:13
Speaker 6: reach out if that's maybe something you want to facilitate,
49:15
Speaker 6: like Glendid with his team. Before we head off, the
49:18
Speaker 6: last question I have, I think is going to kind
49:20
Speaker 6: of tie everything off in a nice little bow. It
49:22
Speaker 6: comes from Jasmine and she wants to know how have
49:25
Speaker 6: you guys fostered positive team environments that motivate people to
49:29
Speaker 6: get the job done, want to turn up and want
49:31
Speaker 6: to contribute to the good team culture and have a
49:33
Speaker 6: little bit of fun. Do you do quizzes or trivia
49:36
Speaker 6: in the mornings? Toolbox meetings, gratitude walls. What helps to
49:40
Speaker 6: make your team feel special and wonded?
49:42
Speaker 5: Okay, couple of things and these are so basic that
49:45
Speaker 5: far out people don't do this. Number one give positive feedback.
49:50
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, you know what I keep thinking.
49:52
Speaker 5: Positive feedback is one of the most powerful forces. I
49:56
Speaker 5: can be quite cynical by nature, so I've had to
49:58
Speaker 5: learn this as a skill I reckon. In my early
50:00
Speaker 5: days of being a leader, I was the worst of this,
50:02
Speaker 5: Like I'd always be about what are all the things
50:04
Speaker 5: you need to fix? But really, one of the things
50:06
Speaker 5: I've learned is we need to understand each other's strengths
50:09
Speaker 5: and we need to call them out and praise people
50:12
Speaker 5: for the good things that they've done. Ping pong tables
50:15
Speaker 5: don't care, beanbags don't give.
50:16
Speaker 2: A shit, but it's a cool startup.
50:19
Speaker 5: Honestly, no amount of pizza parties is going to fix
50:22
Speaker 5: the toxic culture. What will have a huge impact is
50:25
Speaker 5: if you find the strengths of your employees, you call
50:28
Speaker 5: them out, you encourage them on it. You call out
50:31
Speaker 5: your team's strengths. And the other thing that I would
50:36
Speaker 5: encourage you to do is have regular one on one
50:39
Speaker 5: catch ups. Regular one on one catch ups are one
50:42
Speaker 5: of my all time favorite things. That could just be
50:45
Speaker 5: fifteen minutes. Get to know people personally on your team.
50:50
Speaker 5: Don't think of it as a transactional relationship. The more
50:53
Speaker 5: relational equity you've invested into that role, the stronger the culture,
50:57
Speaker 5: the stronger the dynamic, the more you feel seen, more
51:00
Speaker 5: they'll feel seen.
51:01
Speaker 6: The best thing ever, Yeah, if you feel like you
51:04
Speaker 6: know the people around you, You're more likely to like
51:06
Speaker 6: them and get on with them and relate with them better.
51:09
Speaker 6: It can be hard. Like I'm quite introverted, and I've
51:11
Speaker 6: worked in big office teams and spaces before, which I
51:14
Speaker 6: did not love. But I remember whenever you had someone
51:18
Speaker 6: that you both went for the same football team, or
51:20
Speaker 6: you both had the same hobby, or watch the same
51:23
Speaker 6: TV show and it's just something that had come up
51:25
Speaker 6: in an incidental conversation, or it had to come up
51:27
Speaker 6: in a one on on with a manager, and then
51:29
Speaker 6: when you saw them during the week, be like, oh,
51:31
Speaker 6: just catch a new episode, like what did you think?
51:32
Speaker 6: Like I'm dying. It makes it feel like a little
51:35
Speaker 6: bit more than just I'm an employee and you're my boss.
51:37
Speaker 6: Like it gives you something that makes you feel connected.
51:40
Speaker 5: I guess the connection that's the point.
51:43
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I think Jasmine, she may be a team leader.
51:46
Speaker 7: I would say a couple of things bring the team
51:49
Speaker 7: on the journey. Yeah, like, hey, we want to make
51:51
Speaker 7: this a little bit more engaging. Let's have a catch
51:54
Speaker 7: up and let's all just put some ideas on what
51:58
Speaker 7: we can do and everyone we can write them down
52:01
Speaker 7: anonymously one or two things will put them in a
52:03
Speaker 7: box or whatever, Like if everyone's like extrovert and party
52:07
Speaker 7: time awesome, just do all that. But I think it
52:11
Speaker 7: is just understanding your team getting that buy in. I
52:14
Speaker 7: know on my team there's someone who you could not
52:19
Speaker 7: praise that person enough publicly where someone else might. Yeah,
52:24
Speaker 7: I just think take your team with you.
52:26
Speaker 6: It's a relationship. Like even if you are an employee
52:28
Speaker 6: and yes, your job and yes's paying the bills. Like ultimately,
52:31
Speaker 6: if you can feel like you enjoy what you do,
52:33
Speaker 6: and if you feel like you have buying or you
52:34
Speaker 6: believe in what you're doing, I think that makes the
52:36
Speaker 6: experience more enjoyable for everybody.
52:38
Speaker 7: And I would just say to anyone that's still listening, like,
52:41
Speaker 7: we spend so much time at work and in our
52:45
Speaker 7: career and our job. If it's not ideal right now today,
52:50
Speaker 7: you might not be able to change your job, your career,
52:52
Speaker 7: your life tomorrow, but please take one step. And that
52:58
Speaker 7: could be just thinking, well, in three years time, would
53:03
Speaker 7: I be happy that I didn't put up with this
53:05
Speaker 7: crap and I started to look elsewhere? Or what advice
53:08
Speaker 7: would you give your best friend about your situation? Just
53:11
Speaker 7: let's start just thinking, because you know, all the financial stuff,
53:15
Speaker 7: it is tired, It is tired out there. Yeah, just
53:17
Speaker 7: always look back from a couple of years. So we're
53:21
Speaker 7: not having regrets and we're not you know, Oh, I's
53:24
Speaker 7: been it two years too long and I'm sick of this.
53:26
Speaker 6: Yeah.
53:27
Speaker 5: There's that Daniel Pink quote that we talk about in
53:30
Speaker 5: the book, and it's such a nice way to round
53:32
Speaker 5: out this conversation. And it's the biggest regrets in life
53:36
Speaker 5: of the failues of boldness. So if you're thinking right now,
53:39
Speaker 5: I should make a change, I should make a change.
53:41
Speaker 5: And that's been something on your mind for ages. The
53:43
Speaker 5: biggest regrets aren't the things that we did do, the
53:46
Speaker 5: biggest regrets of the things we didn't do.
53:48
Speaker 4: Wow, guys, it has been an absolute pleasure. Shelle, thanks
53:52
Speaker 4: for joining us, Glenn, thanks for coming along.
53:55
Speaker 2: Thank you.
53:55
Speaker 4: Honestly, I could talk about career stuff all day, but
53:58
Speaker 4: as I always say, unfortunately that is all we have
54:01
Speaker 4: time for today. Please come back, Please come and hang
54:04
Speaker 4: out on our show again. I feel like career content
54:06
Speaker 4: is so important for our community to grow and learn
54:10
Speaker 4: and be better, I guess in life, but also just
54:14
Speaker 4: in their careers like you deserve to have a happy career.
54:16
Speaker 4: You deserve to not be stressed about things and not
54:19
Speaker 4: you know, lose sleep at night when you're stressed about
54:22
Speaker 4: having a conversation with your manager that you definitely shouldn't
54:24
Speaker 4: lose sleepover. So I think it's one so important. But Shelle,
54:28
Speaker 4: let's do a little shameless plug. You wrote arguably an
54:32
Speaker 4: entire book where I'm going to put my affiliate link
54:37
Speaker 4: to your book in my show notes so that I'm
54:41
Speaker 4: benefiting from this. So if anybody wants me the benefit
54:45
Speaker 4: of Shell and Glenn's book, that's how. But where can
54:48
Speaker 4: we find it? Where can we find more of you?
54:50
Speaker 5: So you can find the books or your career out
54:52
Speaker 5: wherever you get good books from. And you can find
54:54
Speaker 5: me on LinkedIn or go to our podcast, my Millennial
54:57
Speaker 5: Career and Instagram use yep bald Side.
55:00
Speaker 6: I love following you guys. It's really helpful.
55:01
Speaker 5: You have the best shares. Thank you, thank you.
55:04
Speaker 4: We'll see you guys on Friday, but we'll see Glenn
55:06
Speaker 4: and Shell hopefully very soon.
55:08
Speaker 2: Bye bye.
55:15
Speaker 4: The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
55:18
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55:22
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