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22: Sharing the Good News at Work · Finding God at Work

0:06
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, I'm Chris.
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This is Finding God at Work.
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Our current series is Gentle Witnesses, sharing the
0:16
good news at work in a way that
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actually made sense.
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Before we get started today, I wanted to
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share a fun announcement.
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In case you missed it, in our last
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episode, I shared that we have now launched
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the online course version of Finding God at
0:32
Work, so it's not just a podcast, it's
0:34
also a course.
0:35
You can go to findinggodatwork.org to check
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it out.
0:39
It's video-based, it's self-paced, there's 50
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microlessons divided into 6 chapters, and so you
0:45
can do it whenever you want.
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The normal cost is $75, but if you're
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a podcast listener, which you are if you're
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hearing this, you can use the discount code
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POD30 for 30% off.
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That's P-O-D-30.
0:59
So just head to findinggodatwork.org if that
1:01
sounds intriguing and maybe something would be helpful
1:03
for you.
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Here's today's episode.
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I want to take some time in this
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episode to just get down to brass tacks
1:10
about sharing the good news in the workplace
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and some of the snags that might come
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up in that process.
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So my context is going to be the
1:17
United States and what it's like to be
1:19
a committed Christian in a secular workplace in
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the United States.
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There's disciples of Jesus around the world, obviously,
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but that's what I know, and I figured
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that many listeners might benefit from just thinking
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through some of these things practically.
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So first we want to talk about the
1:37
law, then we want to talk about power
1:39
dynamics, and finally we want to go to
1:42
the story of Daniel just for some encouragement.
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Okay, so first of all, the law.
1:47
I was at a conference in the summer
1:49
of 2024 with a Christian business leader, and
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he was talking about his own experience of
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discovering praying with fellow Christians in the workplace,
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and he said at first he didn't want
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to do that because he thought it was
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illegal.
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So it's just helpful to clarify some of
2:05
the basic things like it's not illegal to
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pray in the workplace, it's not illegal to
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share the good news with other people in
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the workplace.
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It just depends on how you do it,
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right?
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So the legal ramifications here actually come from
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the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title VII,
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which says that non-work related topics are
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okay to discuss at work, including religious topics,
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as long as it's voluntary.
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So you can't force somebody to have a
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religious conversation at work, like if you're in
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a position of authority, and also somebody doesn't
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want to have a religious conversation and you
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insist on continuing to talk to them about
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religious things.
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That could be interpreted fairly as a form
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of harassment.
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So it might be weird to go to
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the point of law, but it's just helpful
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clarity.
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Sometimes people get confused about this, and I
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hope it goes without saying that if you
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approach evangelism in the way that I've encouraged
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it throughout this series, where you start with
3:01
listening, it's all about building trust.
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It's about giving as much as people are
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open to receiving in a given moment, that
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you're not going to get anywhere near what
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could be considered harassment.
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The kind of thing that is really prohibited
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legally falls more into the category of proselytism.
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That's the kind of forced, pushy version of
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evangelism, which I don't think is a healthy
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version anyways.
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And so we really, if we're approaching this
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in an emotionally intelligent way, in order to
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come alongside our friends and help them discern
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their next steps, and as much as they're
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open to that sort of thing, we're going
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to be fine.
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We're not going to run into any sort
3:38
of legal problems.
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Now, HR is at a different level than
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the law, right?
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So your team may have a different human
3:47
resources policy than another team or another organization.
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And so that raises the question, how much
3:53
do you have a right to do?
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Like, can your boss actually prohibit these sorts
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of conversations?
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And the answer, again, is no.
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The authorities that be HR, they're not allowed
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to prohibit voluntary, non-work-related conversations.
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Now, that doesn't mean they have to support
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or champion those conversations either, but that question
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is going to depend on the specific company.
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Whether your particular corporation and your HR team
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is going to promote faith conversations or merely
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tolerate faith conversations, that's up to them.
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But in terms of just like informal conversations
4:28
with friends, with co-workers, that's all fair
4:31
game as long as it's voluntary, as long
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as it's not forced, as long as you're
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honoring what the other person's genuinely open to
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or not.
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So that requires self-awareness, right?
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Like, you have to be able to tell
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if the other person really doesn't want to
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talk about this stuff.
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Like, you got to be able to tell.
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So if you're like, man, I don't think
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anybody has ever disliked having a religious conversation
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with me.
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There's two possibilities.
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One is that you're really, really great at
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respecting people's boundaries and intuiting what they are,
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and that's why no one has ever had
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a problem.
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The other is that you're just totally emotionally
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tone deaf and you have no idea what
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people's boundaries are.
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So talk to like a trusted friend and
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be like, hey, like, I can't remember a
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time when somebody like was bothered.
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Do you think that's because I'm really sensitive
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or because I'm not sensitive at all?
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And hopefully if you have a good friend,
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they can be a mirror for you and
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help you discern if you're doing great or
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if you need to maybe grow in some
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emotional intelligence and how you have faith conversations.
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Again, if we approach this in a way
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that's healthy, if we approach this in a
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way that's inspired by the way that Jesus
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himself proclaimed the good news, using the gentleness
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of Jesus, caring about people, we're probably not
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going to run into too many issues.
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Now, that being said, there are workplaces that
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are more antagonistic.
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And sometimes, despite what the law says, there
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will even be workplaces that try to prohibit
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even voluntary spiritual conversations.
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They're more anti-faith.
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I believe that's the exception rather than the
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rule in the United States, but it does
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crop up every once in a while.
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Now, when that happens, sometimes Christians may be
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apt to use the word persecution, like, oh,
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I'm being persecuted for my faith.
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Again, sometimes I feel like people use that
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term when they don't realize that they're just
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being jerks and emotionally tone deaf and they're
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not being persecuted for their faith.
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They're just getting bad reactions to the fact
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that they're not sensitive about other people's emotions
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and openness or lack thereof.
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But it is possible to face some measure
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of resistance.
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But even when we face some measure of
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resistance in certain workplaces in the United States,
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I really don't think that the word persecution
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is appropriate to use.
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Here's why.
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There's this wonderful scholar named Knox Thames, and
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his name is spelled like the River Thames,
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but it's pronounced Thames.
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And he wrote a book called Ending Persecution.
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So he's kind of one of the global
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experts about religious persecution.
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And he has this to say, this is
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from an article he wrote a few years
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ago.
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I hope Americans will set the term persecution
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aside so it doesn't lose its intensity or
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veracity.
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The United States is one of the most
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open and liberal countries for freedom of religion
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and belief.
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Persecution is the imprisoning of Christians because they
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are Christians.
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Persecution is the sudden closing or commando-like
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police raids upon your church.
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Persecution is bulldozing churches to the ground.
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Persecution is the murder of Christians for their
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faith.
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And he cites all of those examples of
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persecution because all of those examples have happened
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around the world and around the globe.
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There is real persecution, actual violence committed against
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Christians, state actors putting people in prison because
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they are Christians.
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That's persecution, and we need to be in
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solidarity with our brothers and sisters in the
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Lord and praying for them as they face
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real persecution.
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Us having like a relatively hostile HR person
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is not in the same category.
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It's just not.
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Now it still matters.
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It could still make it hard for us
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to do what we want to do, but
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we'll come back to that in a minute.
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Like what do we do when we face
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challenges, when we face resistance?
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Okay, so that's kind of like the law
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and the HR side.
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Just helpful context, helpful things to think about
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as we go about these conversations.
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Second thing, power dynamics.
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Sometimes people have asked me, hey, I'm a
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manager.
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I don't want to create a weird dynamic
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for people who report to me where they
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might feel pressured because I'm their boss to
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say yes to having spiritual conversations.
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I read a Washington Post article where somebody
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wrote a letter to an advice columnist saying,
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hey, I go to these meetings and my
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boss is always quoting this Christian podcast and
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I'm not a Christian and it makes me
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uncomfortable.
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So when you're in a position of authority,
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I think we have to be sensitive to
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power dynamics.
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Again, this brings us back to what's our
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approach?
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What are we trying to do?
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Are we trying to sell?
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Are we trying to pressure?
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Are we trying to impose?
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No, we're attending to people's souls.
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We are presenting the good news of Jesus.
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We are having an attitude of inviting people
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into the kingdom.
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And so we don't want to in any
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way put our thumb on the scale of
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how other people are responding to us because
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of our authority.
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So the first thing is to not do
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that intentionally, to not abuse your authority by
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forcing people to do things they don't want
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to do.
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So if you're in a secular workplace and
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you are a manager and you have an
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opportunity at a more formal meeting where you're
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the one gathering the meeting, you are the
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manager, I would caution you about how you
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speak about your faith.
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Don't just run roughshod and say, oh, I'm
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going to quote from the Bible at every
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single meeting.
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You want to create space so that everybody
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there feels comfortable and doesn't feel like they're
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being forced to do something religious that they're
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not comfortable with.
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Again, your goal is to meet people where
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they're at.
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And that includes meeting whoever the least religious
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or least open to faith member of your
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team is at.
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So you want to keep that in mind
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for anything formal that you're doing.
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Now, when it comes to more informal conversations,
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I believe it is possible to have meaningful
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spiritual conversations across a power deferential.
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It's possible for a boss to have a
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meaningful spiritual conversation with a subordinate, for lack
9:56
of a better word, that's a formal word
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for someone who reports to them, and vice
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versa.
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And I know this from having conversations with
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bosses in my past, like you can manage
10:04
up a little bit more freely in the
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power dynamic than downward.
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So I think it is possible, but you
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just have to be really careful.
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Walk lightly, use discernment, use more caution when
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there's a power deferential, especially if you're the
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one with more power than the other person
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than you otherwise would.
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I find that the most free context for
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having faith conversations in the workplace, if your
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workplace is large enough for this, is with
10:28
a peer who is not on your direct
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team.
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So if you have like a lunch room
10:34
or some sort of meeting space where you
10:35
get to know people who are at a
10:37
peer level to you, it's not like you're
10:38
several rungs above them on the org chart,
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but you're not even on their direct team.
10:43
Those are the freest relationships because you don't
10:45
even have like the fact that you always
10:46
have to get work done together and you
10:48
have each other's flaws and weaknesses as frustrations
10:52
in your daily work life.
10:54
Obviously, you can build peer relationships on your
10:56
team, but I've just found those are the
10:58
freest.
10:58
That's the easiest.
10:59
Those raise the least amount of questions or
11:01
concerns in terms of power differentials.
11:04
Again, that depends on whether your organization is
11:06
even large enough to accommodate relationships like that
11:08
existing across departments.
11:11
So it's not saying don't ever build a
11:14
relationship or build a faith conversation context across
11:18
power differentials, but just be more careful.
11:20
Tread lightly.
11:21
Make sure that everybody is feeling okay.
11:23
Don't force anything and make sure everybody always
11:25
has an out and that they have the
11:27
freedom to communicate what they're open to or
11:29
not.
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Okay.
11:32
Third thing, just some encouragement from the book
11:34
of Daniel.
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So we are not the first people to
11:36
sometimes have secular employers.
11:38
This happened to Joseph in the book of
11:41
Genesis.
11:41
This happened to Esther in the book of
11:43
Esther.
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This happened to Daniel in the book of
11:45
Daniel.
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All of these people were employed in empires
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that did not worship the God of Israel.
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And we see faithfulness in their ministry.
11:55
And so I'm reading from Daniel chapter six.
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This is the famous passage where he ends
11:58
up with the lions, but he's got some
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skeptics, some people that aren't so into him
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and who want to take him down a
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notch, down a peg.
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And so verse five, finally these men said,
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we will never find any basis for charges
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against this man, Daniel, unless it has something
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to do with the law of his God.
12:19
So Daniel was ministering in a pagan court
12:22
and probably not always talking about the God
12:26
of Israel in that context, probably honoring the
12:29
traditions of that context in some way.
12:32
And yet his competence was such that they
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knew they wouldn't be able to trip him
12:36
up about anything unless somehow they got him
12:39
to violate his own particular faith convictions.
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So I raised this as an example that
12:44
I think this is what we ought to
12:45
aspire to.
12:47
People should know our faith convictions.
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They should be, that should be an obvious
12:50
thing about us, not because we're talking about
12:53
it all the time, but because we are
12:55
so true to it.
12:57
And we shouldn't give people reason to be
13:00
upset with us or having problems with us
13:03
in the workplace by simply not being good
13:05
at our jobs.
13:06
Our witness will be compromised if we're not
13:07
doing a good job at our jobs.
13:09
And we've talked in other series about how
13:11
our job itself is part of God's mission
13:12
in the world.
13:13
And so doing our job well is part
13:15
of loving God and loving other people.
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That's something that really comes through when the
13:20
question of witness of sharing the good news
13:22
comes up.
13:23
If you have a character that's been demonstrated
13:26
time and again, such that people cannot find
13:28
a flaw to criticize in your work other
13:32
than maybe the fact that you are really
13:33
committed Christian, that means you're doing things right.
13:35
That means you're staying close to how Jesus
13:38
would do your job if he had it.
13:41
But then the question does come up.
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What if there is resistance to us living
13:45
out our convictions?
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How do we respond to that resistance?
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Now we know how Daniel responded.
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He was true to his own convictions.
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He faced consequences.
13:55
He was thrown into the lion's den and
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then God protected him.
13:58
And then that gave him an opportunity to
14:00
proclaim the goodness of God.
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So after he survives his night with the
14:04
lion's den, the king calls out to him.
14:06
And this is verse 21.
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Daniel answered, may the king live forever.
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My God sent his angel and he shut
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the mouths of the lions.
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They have not hurt me because I was
14:15
found innocent in his sight.
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Nor have I ever done any wrong before
14:19
you, your majesty.
14:22
Again, we see that combination, right?
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Daniel's like, well, this miracle just happened.
14:26
I think I should talk about God now.
14:28
He talks about how God delivered him.
14:30
But then he also is like, and I
14:31
haven't given any other reason for offense, right?
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I've never done any wrong before, your majesty.
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He's still kind of presenting his credentials as
14:38
a good worker, a good member of the
14:39
empire team, which is really astounding that he
14:42
was able to be a good member of
14:43
the empire team given all the problems with
14:45
that empire.
14:46
So I think similarly, when we face resistance,
14:49
that is actually an opportunity for us to
14:53
appropriately speak about our faith while also continuing
14:56
to show our credentials as good team members.
14:59
So we shouldn't have a self-righteous attitude
15:01
or get in a huff or be like,
15:02
oh, I'm being persecuted because some HR person
15:04
is not a big fan of us getting
15:05
a conference room for a Bible study or
15:07
whatever.
15:09
Instead, we can use that conversation with the
15:11
HR person to say like, hey, this matters
15:14
to me because it's my faith.
15:16
You know, Jesus really matters to me.
15:17
That's part of who I am.
15:18
That's part of why I have this job
15:19
is I believe this job is part of
15:21
God's mission in the world.
15:22
And you know, I'm doing this job as
15:23
well as I know how to do it.
15:28
I'm your people have a space to talk
15:30
about what really matters to them too.
15:32
So you can do what Daniel did.
15:34
You can both speak of your faith when
15:35
you face resistance, and you can just be
15:39
true to being a good team player, being
15:40
good at your job, following the company patterns
15:43
that you can follow without violating your convictions.
15:46
That's the right posture to bring to these
15:49
kinds of conversations.
15:51
Now, that doesn't mean you're always going to
15:52
win.
15:52
Daniel had a big slam dunk with a
15:54
miracle.
15:55
That's great.
15:55
Sometimes HR is going to be like, sorry,
15:57
no dice, no conference room for you.
15:58
what can you do?
15:59
You tried.
16:00
You don't need to start a campaign, you
16:02
just need to be sensitive.
16:03
Okay, where's the open opportunity now?
16:05
If it's not using that conference room for
16:07
a Bible study, maybe it's something else.
16:10
So I have examples of this where like
16:12
I've like kind of taken a shot at
16:14
being evangelistic in the workplace and gotten shot
16:16
down.
16:16
So I was at one employer and when
16:19
we had holiday responders on like around Christmastime,
16:22
I was like, ah Christmastime people wonder about
16:24
Christmas.
16:25
How about I just put like a link
16:26
to like the Meaning of Christmas in my
16:29
email responders.
16:30
That was my like little evangelistic thing I
16:31
did when I was gonna be out of
16:33
town in December.
16:34
I think it was a link to the
16:34
Alpha USA website.
16:36
Like hey, if you're interested in the Meaning
16:37
of Christmas, here's a here's a resource from
16:39
Alpha USA, another one of those great organizations
16:42
that kind of helps give us resources for
16:44
having these kind of conversations.
16:46
And that was at a secular employer.
16:48
There were a lot of Christians involved.
16:49
The CEO was a Christian, so that probably
16:51
helped.
16:51
And I didn't get in trouble for that
16:52
at all.
16:53
That was great.
16:53
People seem to think it was great.
16:55
I was at another employer and I did
16:57
the exact same thing and I got shut
16:59
down by HR.
17:00
They said, hey, this is a formal communication.
17:02
You're representing the organization in this communication.
17:05
So don't do that.
17:06
It's not the same as an informal lunch
17:08
place conversation.
17:09
And I said, okay, that's fine.
17:10
You know, I wanted to be a good
17:11
team player.
17:12
I didn't do it again.
17:13
I didn't violate that company norm.
17:16
But I at least found out where the
17:17
limit was, right?
17:18
I found out, okay, I have a lot
17:19
of freedom.
17:20
I'm allowed to do that.
17:23
And that's not the same thing as an
17:23
evangelistic vacation responder.
17:25
Now, depending on your personality, you might be
17:27
thinking like, oh, my gosh, I would never
17:28
put on an evangelistic vacation responder at a
17:31
secular workplace.
17:32
That's just absurd.
17:33
Why would you even try that?
17:35
Or on the flip side, you might be
17:36
like, oh, I'm so offended that they shut
17:37
you down and that they wouldn't let you
17:39
use your vacation responder.
17:41
Again, I want to I want to push
17:42
back against both of those extremes, right?
17:44
We should have the humility that we can
17:45
accept the limits that are imposed on us,
17:47
generally speaking, unless they truly violate our convictions,
17:50
saying that we can't share in a certain
17:51
way using an official communication channel is not
17:53
the same as asking us to violate our
17:55
convictions.
17:56
While at the same time, I think we
17:57
should be bold.
17:58
We should have gentle confidence and try and
18:01
find out where those limits are.
18:02
Find out to what extent we can, with
18:05
confidence, with openness, talk about our convictions, talk
18:08
about the good news with others.
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Again, in a way that's sensitive to them
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and their level of openness.
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So, that's just my two cents on some
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practical things about sharing your faith in the
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workplace.
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We'd love to hear from you, too, about
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your thoughts.
18:21
You can reach out via our website like
18:22
normal if you have interesting perspectives on what
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it means to share the good news in
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your work context.
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Let me just close, as usual, with a
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prayer to our Lord, asking to be with
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us as we attempt to do this in
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his name.
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Lord Jesus, thank you that you have good
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news, that you did die, that you did
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rise again, that you are changing our lives.
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Give us your gentle confidence to share that
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news in our workplaces in a way that
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makes sense.
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Give each of us wisdom and discernment and
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humility and confidence for our context to do
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that well and to do it in your
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name and in your character.
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Jesus, do your work in us as we
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do our work with you.
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Amen.
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Thanks for listening.
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Finding God at Work is a production of
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Mission Central, a ministry based in Aurora, Illinois,
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dedicated to forming Christians for mission in everyday
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life.
19:14
You can subscribe to the podcast wherever you
19:16
listen to this episode to get 10 minutes
19:18
of teaching on faith and work every Tuesday
19:20
and Thursday.
19:21
To get resources to go deeper with each
19:23
podcast series, read our blog, and get info
19:26
about upcoming courses on faith in the workplace,
19:28
go to our website, missioncentral.church.