Latest / Sukany4: The Walk and Talk Podcast / Al Topping - The Dalesway - Robotics Engineer, Hospitality Marketing Strategist, Founder of Content-Team

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Al Topping - The Dalesway - Robotics Engineer, Hospitality Marketing Strategist, Founder of Content-Team · Sukany4: The Walk and Talk Podcast

0:20
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Sakania the podcast, where great conversations happen on great walks.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm Sakania, and you're listening to the very first episode of season three.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: Before we dive in, I want to introduce our music partner for this season, a band called Persimmon, a talented group local to Kendall and Lancaster.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: Their sound is the perfect backdrop for our lake district adventures, so definitely check them out after the episode.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: So today I'm on the Dales Way tracing the footpath from Staveley to Windermere on a stunning summer morning in July 2025.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: My guest is Al Topping.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: He is on a mission to tick off every walk on the Ordnance Survey Map OL7, which covers Windermere, Kendall, and Silverdale.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: So we walked a new route to both of us.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: So that was exciting.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: What I love about Al Story is how he's built a business around living well and not just working hard.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: He's chosen to stay in one place for the first time in 20 years, and he's designed his work life around that choice.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: Today we're talking about following market signals instead of rigid plans, why marketing is a revenue generator, not a cost, the concept of paying the dumb tax, and why picking up the phone beats out posting on social media every single time.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Whether you're contemplating a career change, running your own business, or just wondering how to build a life you actually want to live, this conversation is something for you.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: So grab your boots or settle into your sofa and let's walk.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: Hi Al!
2:38
SPEAKER_06: Hi, good morning.
2:39
SPEAKER_06: Good morning, how are you?
2:40
SPEAKER_06: I'm I'm great, you know, it's uh it's a nice sunny day, kind of.
2:43
SPEAKER_06: It is as good as you can for a lake district summer day.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: It was very grey and misly in Bonas, but I'm pleased the sun's come out.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it was nice to see you on the train.
2:54
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we're doing things a bit different today, aren't we?
2:56
SPEAKER_00: We are, and it's nice to be a bit more eco-friendly.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: So the last time I tried to catch a train was to Lancaster, and I missed the train, and then I finally got on the next train, which was an hour later, and missed the stop and ended up in Preston.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: So my whole quest to be more eco-friendly cost me three hours and well we've all got to start somewhere.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Buy four, get get two free gin and tonics with booth.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: So it was fun anyway.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: It was fun.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: So do we want to start with your full name?
3:39
SPEAKER_06: Uh okay, so I suppose I was I was Christianed differently to what I what I go by now.
3:45
SPEAKER_06: My full name's Alistair.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
3:46
SPEAKER_06: But yes, only my mum calls me that.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Oh okay, yeah.
3:49
SPEAKER_06: Um, but yeah, my name's Al Topping.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: Um that's kind of a movie star name, isn't it?
3:54
SPEAKER_00: It we can go with that if you'd like to.
3:57
SPEAKER_06: You know, I'm I'm I'm not I'm not against to that sort of reputation.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
4:04
SPEAKER_06: Um, and we're uh we're out walking a bit of the Dale's way today.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm very excited about this.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: So my cousin from Canada and her partner walked this walk, um, and they called it the route to Sakania.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh right.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: Isn't that lovely?
4:22
SPEAKER_00: Because I live in Both.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: You live at the other end of it.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: So I'm very excited to do this because I feel like we get to follow their footsteps a bit as well.
4:31
SPEAKER_06: Excellent.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so thanks for suggesting this.
4:34
SPEAKER_06: That's okay.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: And also, as a qualified, are you a qualified map breeder?
4:40
SPEAKER_06: Uh uh yes and no, and I suppose we we'll probably come on to the the the why.
4:47
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
4:47
SPEAKER_06: Um I've had a certain amount of outdoor training over the years.
4:52
SPEAKER_06: Oh, okay.
4:52
SPEAKER_06: Um navigation is I think just one of those skills that you need regardless of what you do.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: It's a good everyday skill, isn't it?
5:02
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, even from even if it is just app-based navigation, yeah.
5:05
SPEAKER_06: Um, you know, people are using that every day clearly.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:09
SPEAKER_06: Uh but it's things that I want my kids to be able to do and be independent doing.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: Life skills.
5:15
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, exactly.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: And we are so dependent on devices now.
5:19
unknown: Yeah.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: It's actually frightening.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: And I'm one of those people who used to, who actually I used to use an A to Z when I passed my driving test.
5:28
SPEAKER_06: I still have them, I still carry them in the car.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: That's such a good idea.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: Because as soon as your phone battery dies, I'm like That's it.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
5:37
SPEAKER_06: You're scuppered.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: Where am I?
5:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry, go back to you.
5:42
SPEAKER_06: Um yeah, so it's uh navigation is one of those things that I'm trying to teach my kids.
5:46
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
5:47
SPEAKER_06: Um and as as much as I suppose it's not my profession, yeah.
5:51
SPEAKER_06: It's and the outdoors in general is is a serious passion and has been a driving factor and a driving force for what I now do, I suppose.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
6:03
SPEAKER_06: Uh and how I got here.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: And how did you end up in Cumbria?
6:09
SPEAKER_00: From Cumbria?
6:10
SPEAKER_06: No, I'm not.
6:11
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
6:11
SPEAKER_06: Uh I've lived I've lived in a few places.
6:14
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
6:15
SPEAKER_06: Uh I'm my parents my parents still live uh in Shropshire.
6:20
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
6:21
SPEAKER_06: And they've lived there since well, I was I was born, I suppose, really.
6:25
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
6:26
SPEAKER_06: Um many moons ago.
6:28
SPEAKER_06: Um but I I left I left the family home at 18 to go to university.
6:34
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: What did you do there?
6:36
SPEAKER_06: Uh so I went to uh a place called Harriet Watt University, which is which is in Edinburgh.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
6:41
SPEAKER_06: And it's got a reputation for robotics.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
6:44
SPEAKER_06: Uh and uh the course that I went on was a robotics course.
6:48
SPEAKER_06: Right.
6:49
SPEAKER_06: Um it was actually the first one that they'd run.
6:52
SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
6:52
SPEAKER_06: Which uh in comparison to what they are today is you know quite a privilege, I suppose.
6:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:57
SPEAKER_06: It was and it sounds like a bit of a it sounds like a start of a joke, but it was me, a French guy and a dwarf that were the first that were the first students on this course.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:08
SPEAKER_06: Um and uh yeah, so I went to Edinburgh, uh, I then moved into software engineering.
7:14
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
7:15
SPEAKER_06: Moved about the place a bit, yeah.
7:17
SPEAKER_06: Um Inverness, Cheltenham.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I see, yeah.
7:21
SPEAKER_06: So a bit of a swing.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
7:24
SPEAKER_06: And as a result of that and working in the industries that I was, yeah, I ended up making a move into the army.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
7:31
SPEAKER_06: So I commissioned into the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers in 2012.
7:38
SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay, yeah.
7:40
SPEAKER_06: And I stayed in the army for a further nine years.
7:44
SPEAKER_06: Wow.
7:45
SPEAKER_06: Uh at which point, you know, I'd met my wife who who was all all also serving.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:51
SPEAKER_06: Uh and we exactly well yeah, yeah.
7:54
SPEAKER_06: It wasn't it wasn't planned, clearly.
7:56
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
7:57
SPEAKER_06: Um, it wasn't something that either of us had set out to do.
8:01
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
8:01
SPEAKER_06: Because I think to some extent there's a there's an appreciation for having a separate life when you're in the forces.
8:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:08
SPEAKER_06: Because you're f because the forces takes up a lot of your your time.
8:12
SPEAKER_06: Um, and it is a vocation.
8:14
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
8:15
SPEAKER_06: Uh, doing that rather than and having a bit of separation just helps sort of normalise people, but uh yeah, anyway, so we got together.
8:23
SPEAKER_06: Um I left 2019, uh-huh.
8:28
SPEAKER_06: Uh she left 2020, I want to say 21.
8:33
SPEAKER_06: Uh-huh.
8:34
SPEAKER_06: Was it 20?
8:35
SPEAKER_06: So it's just at the end of lockdown.
8:37
SPEAKER_06: So that would have been was that 20?
8:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh 20, yeah.
8:40
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, the first lockdown.
8:42
SPEAKER_06: The first lockdown, that was it.
8:44
SPEAKER_06: So we moved to Cumbria um at the end of that first sort of big lockdown stage.
8:53
SPEAKER_06: Uh-huh.
8:54
SPEAKER_06: And we were very fortunate to be able to get a place uh in Cumbria where we'd, you know, we'd always wanted to live.
9:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
9:01
SPEAKER_06: Um, and that's where we've we've settled, and it's nice.
9:04
SPEAKER_06: It's nice being in somewhere for more than 18 months at a time.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I totally get that because I worked out that I'd moved about 20 times, 19 times in 20 years.
9:18
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: So obviously in some years that was multiple times.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: But I um it's not fun.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I kind of have always thrived on change.
9:27
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: And for me, I find it quite exciting.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't mind it so much.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of it wasn't necessarily by positive choice, but you know.
9:36
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, most of mine weren't.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: You have to make hay while the sun shines, as they say.
9:42
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's always worked out really well.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: And actually, Windermere, well, Cumbria's the county I've lived in the longest ever.
9:51
SPEAKER_05: Oh right.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so and Windermere Bonas in particular have broken all records.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: So that's nice.
10:00
SPEAKER_06: Good and bad.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, good and bad, but yeah, yeah, it's good and bad, but mostly good.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I just love it.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: I love the community, I love the environment, I love the walks, and as we discussed um before the podcast recording started, this whole um endeavour of my guests taking me on a walk is entirely self-serving as I'm honing in on my navigation skills.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: So thank you very much.
10:31
SPEAKER_06: That's okay, that's okay.
10:32
SPEAKER_06: Well, this is this has been on my list of to-dos for for some time.
10:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:38
SPEAKER_06: And it I suppose to some extent it prompted a little a little challenge I've set myself anyway.
10:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:45
SPEAKER_06: Um so we are walking for those that haven't picked up yet, we're doing the Dales Way from Staveley through to Bonas.
10:52
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
10:52
SPEAKER_06: Um, there obviously is a longer portion of the Dalesway which goes into Yorkshire and uh and uh and and stops there.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:02
SPEAKER_06: But um this section I thought would be just an interesting way to get around.
11:08
SPEAKER_06: I I like the journey.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:10
SPEAKER_06: I like the fact that we've we've gone from or we've both walked from home to the station.
11:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:16
SPEAKER_06: We've got on the on the public transport and used the station, uh sorry, used the train station to just uh do that one hop down to Staveley.
11:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:24
SPEAKER_06: And then we'll do the walk and you know we'll probably get the bus back.
11:27
SPEAKER_06: And it's yes, it's still circular in nature, but there's a number of different elements that just gives it a little bit more interest.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I love that.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: I love that the whole journey piece plays into it, it's not just ticking it off, it's the experience of it.
11:43
SPEAKER_06: That's it, that's it.
11:44
SPEAKER_06: Now then we've come up to a come up to a grid here, so let's just make sure that we're on the right track.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:50
SPEAKER_06: Okay, where's are we where are we going?
11:53
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it says take the track, so we need that one.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, okay.
12:00
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, we need that one.
12:02
SPEAKER_06: Um thanks very much.
12:06
SPEAKER_06: You're welcome.
12:07
SPEAKER_06: Down this track.
12:12
SPEAKER_06: This is the point where somebody comes out and says, Oh no, you can't go down there.
12:16
SPEAKER_06: But it is it is a road.
12:17
SPEAKER_06: It is a road.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: And it smells very farmy.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: Which is always nice, isn't it?
12:26
SPEAKER_00: Well affirms that we're out in nature, is what I mean.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm not rushing out to buy the perfume.
12:33
SPEAKER_06: No.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: Um so fast forward to Windermere then.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, so you had like lockdown two, three to ten in Windermere.
12:43
SPEAKER_06: No, actually, that was the that was the last thing, I think.
12:46
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
12:46
SPEAKER_06: Have I got that right?
12:47
SPEAKER_06: Uh yeah, so I started my I started an outdoor photography business two weeks before Boris announced lockdown, which was really helpful.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: I forgot about Boris.
12:57
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, it was really bad timing.
13:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
13:02
SPEAKER_06: And I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that because I've met a couple of other business owners that have were in the same boat.
13:08
SPEAKER_06: They left they left the comfort of employment and started their own businesses.
13:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:14
SPEAKER_06: And before you know it, you're being told that you can't go outside, which is really unhelpful.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:20
SPEAKER_06: Um, yeah, so I I started that business then, struggled through the first lockdown in while we were in York.
13:28
SPEAKER_06: Um, because my wife's last posting was in York.
13:30
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
13:31
SPEAKER_06: And we lived there we lived in a house there, and that was, you know what, it was really nice.
13:36
SPEAKER_06: And don't tell anybody, but I really enjoyed lockdown.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: I know, I mean, there obviously a lot of people had a terrible, terrible time.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: I think some of us were s really fortunate to be able to sort of use that time differently, which is really productively.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:55
SPEAKER_06: I mean we we lived in a a nice house.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:59
SPEAKER_06: Um it had a good amount of garden.
14:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:02
SPEAKER_06: But then because of what we did and where we were, we also had access to the the firing ranges, the the Oh, okay.
14:09
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, the shooting ranges next to our house.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:12
SPEAKER_06: So we had miles upon miles of places to go.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: And I guess those weren't being used, were they?
14:18
SPEAKER_06: So no, no.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: Um risk of danger when you were out.
14:21
SPEAKER_06: No, no.
14:22
SPEAKER_06: It was I I yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: Good.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: And we had great weather actually.
14:27
SPEAKER_06: We did, which was a contrast to the later one, because that was terrible.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I remember a lot of sunny walks and windabin bonus were just like magic.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: But you didn't even have to look to cross the road.
14:43
SPEAKER_05: No.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: You didn't have to worry about bumping into people.
14:46
SPEAKER_06: It was great.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: As in physically, yeah, yeah.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was great.
14:52
SPEAKER_06: So we uh yeah, we got here uh what would it have been August bank holiday of 20 whatever year it was.
15:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
15:00
SPEAKER_06: Um, and we've been here since.
15:02
SPEAKER_06: Um my my work has sort of evolved since then, so I I still have the outdoor brand, yeah, um, and still take photos and video for outdoor businesses.
15:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like what?
15:15
SPEAKER_06: Uh so it could be uh a little plug to a local client, yeah um, a company that uh is called It's a Dog's Life.
15:24
SPEAKER_06: Oh okay, and they make dog themed clothing, essentially.
15:29
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but uh the owner lives not far from Kendall.
15:32
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so hi to Mark.
15:36
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, uh everybody go and look at his stuff on It's a Dog's Life.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: Is this a commission paid?
15:42
SPEAKER_06: I don't know, I don't know.
15:43
SPEAKER_06: I'm sure he won't say no though.
15:46
SPEAKER_06: Um so it's yeah, it's clothing brands, there might be outdoor brands, um it might be outdoor races and that kind of thing.
15:56
SPEAKER_06: Um I love I love the outdoor stuff.
16:01
SPEAKER_06: I love the outdoor stuff because of the environment, as as you might expect.
16:04
SPEAKER_06: Yeah um I like it because you get to places, I mean just stopping where we are now, yeah, we're at a gatepost here and we're looking over towards over towards the sort of eastern fells.
16:16
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
16:17
SPEAKER_06: And it's just nice being out.
16:19
SPEAKER_06: It is, it's beautiful.
16:20
SPEAKER_06: Because you've got to have that balance, and I think being in the army and you know, enjoying being outdoors and doing that kind of stuff, but without being shouted at and told what to do, yeah.
16:31
SPEAKER_06: And having a bit more, I think, intrinsic motivation to to go and find something that's enjoyable for yourself, but equally pays the bills, services people, and does the things that you need it to be.
16:43
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's just it was just a good balance.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:47
SPEAKER_06: So I really enjoyed it for that.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: But then uh I like that you call that an outpost, by the way.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: I call it a gate.
16:54
SPEAKER_06: Well, it was uh sorry, a gate post.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh, do you say gate post?
16:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: I may have fumbled with the words.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh how fancy.
17:02
SPEAKER_06: Um I I got a lot of inquiries from people who were not in the outdoor sector when I moved here.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's good.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:10
SPEAKER_06: Is that good?
17:10
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yes, it was good.
17:11
SPEAKER_06: It was good because as much as the outdoor industry is a great place to work, yeah, uh, it's quite saturated because I think a lot of people recognise that it's a great place to work and want to do more of it.
17:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:24
SPEAKER_06: So I yeah, I suppose I I had more inquiries coming from non-outdoor businesses, and so that's where my sort of personal brand, uh topping photos and film, okay, evolved from or into.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:39
SPEAKER_06: Uh so it did cover weddings.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
17:41
SPEAKER_06: I don't do weddings anymore.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: I'd imagine they're quite stressful.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: No, I think because you don't want to ruin someone's memories, do you?
17:50
SPEAKER_06: No, but equally there's there's a lot of commercial pressure that goes into other shoots and other types of content creation.
17:57
SPEAKER_06: Because you recognise that as much as it's not you might only get one pip at a bite of the cherry or bite of the apple for a wedding.
18:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
18:07
SPEAKER_06: Yes, they might have you might have kids and they might do that kind of thing afterwards, which requires you know, uh opportunity for for other content as well.
18:15
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but actually, you repeat business opportunities in uh in the commercial world are probably a little bit a bit larger.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, of course, because it's just one chance and then that's it, that's it.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
18:29
SPEAKER_06: So um, so um yeah, so I started doing a lot more um yeah, uh non-outdoor stuff, and the the brand evolved into more hospitality.
18:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:40
SPEAKER_06: Which being where we are is understandable.
18:42
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, of course.
18:43
SPEAKER_06: So I uh yeah, so that's what I do now.
18:45
SPEAKER_06: Um I've I've decided to take things a lot more uh apply a lot more focus to hospitality.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:52
SPEAKER_06: Um yeah.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I just I just realised I was marching up this hill.
18:56
SPEAKER_06: I was I was trying to put a brave face on it.
19:00
SPEAKER_06: So come on, come on, give me a break.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: You did really well.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: I apologize.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: That's all right because I wasn't talking.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: It's your turn next.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Watch me go.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: I didn't stop down the hill.
19:11
SPEAKER_06: What's the range on these mics?
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: Um 20 meters or something.
19:16
SPEAKER_06: Right, standby.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, running's not allowed.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, that makes sense, and also you're building your customer base and repeat business and um links in the community, aren't you?
19:35
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and that's something I've never really had before.
19:38
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I suppose because I've moved around so much.
19:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:42
SPEAKER_06: So the fact is that I can wander down the street and I might bump into a client.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:48
SPEAKER_06: Or might go out at the weekend for a meal or something and be at a client's restaurant.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:54
SPEAKER_06: And it's an enjoyable way to to live, yeah, because you get to see the benefit, the first hand benefit of of what you do.
20:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
20:04
SPEAKER_06: And the fact that you know you can yeah, you can you can you can go and experience whatever it is that that that hotel or that restaurant is providing.
20:13
SPEAKER_04: I love that, yeah.
20:14
SPEAKER_06: And you can you can say to your your family, you know, I don't make this stuff, but I help share how good it is.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:22
SPEAKER_06: And this is how good it is, and they're like, I get it, you know.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's true because you know, we are so spoilt for choice where we are, yeah.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: And the bar is really high.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I find that when I go somewhere else, I'm like, why am I been here?
20:37
SPEAKER_00: I could have just stayed at home and driven up the road and I'd have had a better experience.
20:43
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and that is a problem with moving here.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: It is, you're so spoiled.
20:47
SPEAKER_06: It's so spoiled.
20:48
SPEAKER_06: My my wife complains that I never want to go anywhere.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:52
SPEAKER_06: But she has family down in Hereford.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:55
SPEAKER_06: Uh my family, um my family are actually moving up here.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Oh, are they?
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they're following you guys.
21:01
SPEAKER_06: They're following because my my brother emigrated with his wife and family um I don't know, five, ten years ago.
21:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:08
SPEAKER_06: And so it's just it's just me and my sort of family now that uh that are sort of up here, and they recognise that they want to be around us.
21:17
SPEAKER_06: So they're they're actually moving up here and then they're moving into Kendall.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
21:21
SPEAKER_06: Um, but uh yeah, it does mean that whenever we go away, yeah, we're always judging it by what we've got at home.
21:29
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
21:29
SPEAKER_06: Is it nicer than the house we live in?
21:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:31
SPEAKER_06: Can we cook better food than there's in that we can do ourselves?
21:35
SPEAKER_00: This is the other thing, because not to blow smoke up my own backside, but I like my own cooking.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: Good.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: And so when I do eat out, and uh as a vegan a vegan.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: A vegan, that's right, I do I do partake in the consumption of eggs um and gluten free.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you go to places and you think, I mean, really, there's no imagination here.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Then it's not difficult to make vegetarian food.
22:03
SPEAKER_03: No.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: And actually, cost-wise, for restaurants, it wouldn't cost that much.
22:08
SPEAKER_03: No.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: And you can mark it up by an extra ten.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: I'd still pay for it.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's really.
22:15
SPEAKER_06: But you do it for the experience though.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: That's the thing, and when the experience is lacking, yeah.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: And the menus lacking, it's um you need something to pull your throat.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: Then it becomes like a an ordeal, not an experience.
22:28
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: But yes.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, where were we?
22:34
SPEAKER_00: Hospitality, oh yes, being spoiled.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Being spoiled being up here.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, to anyone listening, that doesn't mean that we're advocating you come up here.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: We like it a bit quieter.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: We do, we do.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm kidding.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it is it is hectic busy at the moment, but we need it.
22:53
SPEAKER_06: We do live in possibly the busiest part of Cumbria though, don't we?
22:57
SPEAKER_00: But you know, the thing is, when you work from home, it's actually okay.
23:02
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: Because and I quite like when I go out in the evenings.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, it has a real tourist town vibe about it, and you go across um Cockshot Point, and people have their speakers out, and there's a real like Cafe del Mar vibe going on.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh, Cafe del Windermere.
23:22
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it swings and roundabouts, that isn't it?
23:25
SPEAKER_06: It is.
23:26
SPEAKER_06: Uh I I would I would actively avoid those sort of scenarios just because I like my peace and quiet.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:34
SPEAKER_06: But I like that I can choose when to be uh sociable or go to something busier and enjoy enjoy the community or the the the ambience that you get from going to bigger things.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, but I think that's the you know, once you get to know the tourist timings, you avoid it you can work around it and it's still really pleasant.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, um so when you set up your business, how did you find that?
24:01
SPEAKER_00: Had you run a business before?
24:02
SPEAKER_06: No, so I I chose to do things in possibly as difficult a way as I could I could find.
24:09
SPEAKER_06: So I I left the army with no experience of business, yeah.
24:16
SPEAKER_06: In a place initially where I wasn't going to be, yes, but then obviously lockdown happened and I couldn't sort of make that move in the timescale that I wanted to.
24:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:26
SPEAKER_06: Um I went into photography and ultimately video, which yeah, I'd been shooting and I'd I'd done a course.
24:34
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
24:35
SPEAKER_06: So I've been taking expert now.
24:36
SPEAKER_06: Oh yeah, exactly.
24:37
SPEAKER_06: So I uh I started taking pictures at university as a way to procrastinate.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: Um I love the honesty in that.
24:46
SPEAKER_06: Oh yeah.
24:46
SPEAKER_06: A friend of mine had a friend of mine showed me his his new camera.
24:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:51
SPEAKER_06: And I I thought, wow, that's pretty cool.
24:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:53
SPEAKER_06: And so I went out and splashed some cash on one.
24:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:56
SPEAKER_06: Um and that was a bit of a journey there.
24:59
SPEAKER_06: So I I started probably what we took in 2006, 7, something like that.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: Was it one of the big heavy ones?
25:06
SPEAKER_06: Uh yes, yeah, well, yes, yeah, it was it was it professional.
25:12
SPEAKER_06: No, no, no, no, it not on a student loan.
25:16
SPEAKER_06: No, okay.
25:16
SPEAKER_06: Um but that sort of sparked.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: It's a big investment as a student.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, yeah, I guess so.
25:23
SPEAKER_06: Not not in relation to now.
25:26
SPEAKER_06: Um it it probably stopped me going out a couple of times just to be able to afford it.
25:31
SPEAKER_06: But yeah, so we I started taking pictures around then uh and didn't do any formal training until 2019, just before I left the army.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and what does formal training for photography look like?
25:44
SPEAKER_06: Well, for me it went I went to a course provider.
25:46
SPEAKER_06: Okay, I went down to a place in Bournemouth actually.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
25:49
SPEAKER_06: Um, and I was on a three-week portrait course, and I think it was is it portrait and portrait and weddings or something?
25:57
SPEAKER_06: Okay, and there was there was some editing in there as well.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um this is really interesting because obviously we live in the world of the smartphone.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Just a slight tangent on the smartphone.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: If you haven't watched um BlackBerry on Netflix, oh yeah, it's really good.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: It is really good.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: I watched it last night, I really enjoyed it.
26:18
SPEAKER_06: But coming back to this concept is this because you used to have a BlackBerry?
26:21
SPEAKER_06: No, or is it just for an interesting story?
26:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, my background is technology as well, so I'm an IT consultant, and um I was I'd assume we're about the same age.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like 27.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
26:34
SPEAKER_06: That's it.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: On the inside, anyway.
26:36
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, on the inside framework's a bit dodgy now.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: So um I think we were the first generation to have a mobile phone, and now my friend's children are the first generation coming through who've had their entire lives on a mobile phone.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's really interesting to me that we have phones, everyone is a photographer these days.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, we have a lot of professional influencers.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: So, what do you think you got from the course that an everyday user like me wouldn't know?
27:09
SPEAKER_06: So, I think there's there's two elements to this.
27:13
SPEAKER_06: There's one which I'm just gonna pick up on something you've said that everybody's a photographer.
27:19
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and I think everybody can take a picture, but not everybody's a photographer.
27:23
SPEAKER_03: Okay, good, that's interesting.
27:24
SPEAKER_06: That's that's that's the first thing.
27:25
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, the second thing is if you want to be a photographer, there's two routes to doing it.
27:31
SPEAKER_06: Learn by trial and error, okay, which is perhaps a it's a cheaper but longer sort of time scale to get to the finished product or you know, competent.
27:41
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
27:42
SPEAKER_06: And then there's the short, fast, but expensive way, which is go on a formal course.
27:46
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
27:46
SPEAKER_06: Or go and go and learn from somebody else.
27:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
27:49
SPEAKER_06: Which often comes with a cost.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:51
SPEAKER_06: I wanted to do the latter because I well yeah, I wanted to I wanted to get somewhere quicker.
27:58
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
27:59
SPEAKER_06: Um, but the advantage for me doing that particular course was that I knew that it would it would take me beyond what I'd already learnt.
28:09
SPEAKER_06: Um it fit my time scale, I suppose.
28:12
SPEAKER_06: That's the reality of it.
28:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:14
SPEAKER_06: Um, I could afford it, but equally I knew it would teach me the kind of things that I thought I wanted to know or wanted to learn.
28:22
SPEAKER_06: And that's that's nothing groundbreaking, but and perhaps people will recognise as we sort of go through this chat.
28:29
SPEAKER_06: I'm one of these kind of people that like to do things in a logical way.
28:32
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
28:33
SPEAKER_06: Um appreciate that that doesn't always fit, but going into a scenario where you don't know how to do something or you don't know what you've got to do to achieve perhaps your client's goals or whatever, yeah, following a logical structure is often a helpful way to be more, I suppose, um confident in giving the results that you need.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:57
SPEAKER_06: And and that's what I wanted at that point because I knew I was leaving the safety net of the forces.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Um and also quite a structured career.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:07
SPEAKER_06: I did my best to I did my best to break with traditions there, which Oh you did?
29:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: Disruptive approach.
29:15
SPEAKER_06: Well, no, I wouldn't say destructive, it's just the case that there is a very destructive destructive.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there is a very disruptive, sorry, disruptive destructive, yeah.
29:26
SPEAKER_06: Um the forces obviously well has a very structured career progression ladder, uh, which has been formed over many years, obviously.
29:36
SPEAKER_06: And for my particular discipline, the intention was very much for me to become a chartered engineer.
29:43
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
29:44
SPEAKER_06: Um, which manifested itself as basically fleet management.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
29:49
SPEAKER_06: I didn't want to do that.
29:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:50
SPEAKER_06: I didn't want to do that.
29:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:52
SPEAKER_06: Uh so I found a sanctuary and doing the outdoor stuff.
29:57
SPEAKER_03: Right.
29:57
SPEAKER_06: And that might be what you would stereotypically class as the green soldiering things.
30:04
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
30:04
SPEAKER_06: But equally there's this there's this sort of training pathway for serving forces uh members, which basically is it's got it's called adventurous training.
30:16
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
30:17
SPEAKER_06: And the army uses adventurous training and the other forces do as well, yeah, to develop those characteristics of a soldier that you can't train as easily in other environments.
30:30
SPEAKER_06: So we're talking about things like reaction to stress, yeah, we're talking about communication, we're talking about uh planning, we're talking about yeah, all the sort of soft skills that you can't manufacture in a training environment in a in a classroom or you know in an office or something.
30:47
SPEAKER_06: But in order to deliver those those sort of courses and that activity, you need instructors to do that.
30:54
SPEAKER_06: So the army, the navy, and the air force, they they they recruit from within, they train from within to be able to deliver those courses.
31:01
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see.
31:02
SPEAKER_06: So that's where I got a lot of my outdoor capability from.
31:07
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
31:07
SPEAKER_06: Uh, and so it was for me, it was climbing, it was it was paragliding, it was mountaineering, um, what else did I do?
31:18
SPEAKER_06: I think there was some surfing and fishing, which was I think not necessarily the most uh yeah, beneficial use of my time.
31:28
SPEAKER_06: But you know good practice and mindfulness.
31:31
SPEAKER_06: Call it a team building activity.
31:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:34
SPEAKER_06: Um so that's where I started to uh I suppose craft my own career stream, yeah, which perhaps annoyed a few people that were trying to get me to do more engineering-based tasks.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I see, okay.
31:47
SPEAKER_06: So I so I recognised that I was I was getting close to my ceiling because of that.
31:51
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
31:52
SPEAKER_06: And you know, opportun opportunities stopped coming in, and it was at that point that I decided that actually I I should leave.
31:59
SPEAKER_06: Okay, but was the basis of my intention for running an outdoor photo business.
32:03
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
32:04
SPEAKER_06: So uh so yeah, so that's where it came from.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's I suppose And actually that decision you made at university to procrastinate has actually helped shape this decision.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, you never shall we.
32:17
SPEAKER_06: You never really know where your life's gonna go, do you?
32:20
SPEAKER_06: And at the time that I went to university, my focus was on being um some form of technical engineer, whether it be robotics directly, I I ended up doing a master's in robotics.
32:34
SPEAKER_06: Oh wow.
32:34
SPEAKER_06: Which doesn't include the Peter Crouch dance for anybody that's uh football fan.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm surprised that's not a chance.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: It's it's crazy, it's crazy.
32:43
SPEAKER_06: I'm not not a footballer myself, but you know, some people are gonna think, can you do the Peter Crouch dance?
32:50
SPEAKER_06: No, no is the answer.
32:51
SPEAKER_06: Um I'm just pausing because we're trying to look for a path the right way.
32:55
SPEAKER_06: And I think we are I don't see it's around here.
33:00
SPEAKER_06: There is a turning, but I wonder if that's too far.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh, here it is.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: Ta-da! Yeah easy to miss.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: Perfectly timed.
33:13
SPEAKER_06: Easy to miss, but yeah, we found a happy days.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh um grunting for the fact that.
33:20
SPEAKER_06: In fact, hold on one second.
33:21
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, my eyes deceive me.
33:23
SPEAKER_06: There is a track there, but it's not where we should be going.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
33:27
SPEAKER_06: So I'll turn back around.
33:28
SPEAKER_06: Let's let's let's actually follow the signposts.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: Oh, what does it say?
33:32
SPEAKER_06: It says Dale's way, that way.
33:34
SPEAKER_06: Oh, what does this one say?
33:35
SPEAKER_06: It doesn't.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh it does.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: It does, yeah.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: No, what's that?
33:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that one, yeah.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: What does that say?
33:40
SPEAKER_00: U Tree Farm.
33:42
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
33:42
SPEAKER_06: Okay, so we could have gone down there.
33:44
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
33:44
SPEAKER_06: I'm sure that's a lovely walk as well, but let's keep going this way.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
33:47
SPEAKER_06: So just at the point where I've ruined my credibility as a navigator, we're gonna go this way.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean you're a thousand percent ahead of me, so Well I thought I'd keep my eye on it.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, good.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: Good work, navigator.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: Your guest is very feeling very safe.
34:06
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, where were we?
34:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I was saying, you know, your choice um to buy that camera at university to procrastinate actually um has met you again.
34:18
SPEAKER_06: I think I'm one of those people that I as a kid I loved learning new skills.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:23
SPEAKER_06: And there is that phrase, jack of all trades, master of none.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
34:28
SPEAKER_06: But then there's another part to it, which I think I'm gonna get right.
34:33
SPEAKER_06: But a master of none is better than I think it's one.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
34:38
SPEAKER_06: So for me, uh my my sort of I I get enjoyment from learning new skills.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:45
SPEAKER_06: And I I've sort of had that throughout my my life where I've I've enjoyed, you know, learning to play the guitar for a bit.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:52
SPEAKER_06: Playing the drums, or it's not all musical, but no, you know.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: Do you buy all the kit and then do the thing and then that's it, it's done.
35:00
SPEAKER_06: I think to some extent there is a bit of phases, yeah.
35:03
SPEAKER_06: And I've recognised that to some extent I need to curb that enthusiasm for doing lots of different things.
35:09
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
35:10
SPEAKER_06: So that's been that's been one of the big challenges by being a business owner is that you've you've got to focus.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:17
SPEAKER_06: You've got to focus on one thing.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, so easy to get distracted.
35:22
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
35:23
SPEAKER_06: And make things work.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:25
SPEAKER_06: And you you yeah, go go go become a a true expert in one thing.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:31
SPEAKER_06: You know, make that work, and then think about something else afterwards.
35:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:36
SPEAKER_06: Uh good tip.
35:38
SPEAKER_06: I'd like to say that yeah, having that scatter brain kind of thinking when I was at university, yeah, is actually, you know, it was what I meant to do all along.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
35:49
SPEAKER_06: Not in the slightest.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: You just saw ahead.
35:51
SPEAKER_06: Not in the slightest.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: But you know, to your point, you just don't know what's gonna happen, do you?
35:57
SPEAKER_06: No.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: So it's good to keep a bit of an open mind and not be so rigid in terms of when I'm tw 20 this is gonna happen, when I'm 35, I'm gonna be here.
36:08
SPEAKER_06: Well, I think by the fact that I'm now in my third career, yeah, it's probably um you know, justification enough that you probably shouldn't do that.
36:16
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
36:17
SPEAKER_06: You just want to focus on one thing.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and be present.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, yeah, yeah.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the enjoy this point in time.
36:24
SPEAKER_06: But what it does do is it lends itself well to coming up with content ideas.
36:30
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
36:31
SPEAKER_06: Because you've got to have that, I suppose, constant influx of ideas, um, because that's what clients want.
36:41
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and so they need to do things that differentiate themselves from their competitors down the road, or you know, their online competitors, whoever they may be.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:50
SPEAKER_06: And doing things differently and thinking up new ideas based within the constraints of what the the restaurant staff timetable is, or yeah, whether or not anybody's in on a Wednesday when you've got a free slot or whatever it might be.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: So it's what's what's interesting is that to me is that your background is very science-based.
37:15
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: And you're in a very creative field right now.
37:17
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I'm I'm stretching both sides of my brain.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: Because how uh was that difficult, or is it something that you've innately had within you?
37:29
SPEAKER_06: I think there's an element learning new skills is easy.
37:34
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
37:35
SPEAKER_06: Putting s new skills into practice in the right context, I think is harder.
37:39
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
37:40
SPEAKER_06: And so when I came to learn about business, yeah, which had always had an interest in but never really managed to sort of stretch the muscle, yeah.
37:49
SPEAKER_06: Um it became it was difficult initially because I didn't know what I was doing.
37:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:54
SPEAKER_06: Lots of other people were were off work, um, there wasn't that normal conversation.
38:00
SPEAKER_06: So I I think I probably stagnated for about 18 months after I after I started work.
38:06
SPEAKER_06: That um yeah, typically would have been a lot easier for other people.
38:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:11
SPEAKER_06: Uh, because if nothing else, you've got that perhaps that social network of other business owners that you find at networking events or you know that kind of thing.
38:20
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
38:20
SPEAKER_06: Um, but I wouldn't say I found balancing the two difficult.
38:26
SPEAKER_06: I quite enjoy I really enjoy the business side of things now.
38:29
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
38:30
SPEAKER_06: Um, and I think I think there's I think your other side of the brain still plays a a heavy part in that.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:37
SPEAKER_06: Because as much as the there's structure to it, yeah, you've still got to be creative in how you go about running your business so that you can overcome the the hurdles that you might have.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:47
SPEAKER_06: So I wouldn't I wouldn't say that there's that.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: You haven't shut it down.
38:51
SPEAKER_06: No, you've you've got to, particularly in the creative industries, you've got to have that balance.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise it's a passion project that you can't sustain a lifestyle from.
39:04
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:06
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I I've I had a I had a sergeant when I was uh delivering courses, training courses within the army.
39:14
SPEAKER_06: And he said I asked him one day about what he thought about his work, and we took I think it was annual annual appraisal time or whatever.
39:22
SPEAKER_06: And he said, Sir, I love this.
39:23
SPEAKER_06: This is my jobby.
39:25
SPEAKER_06: It's my job, yeah, and it's my hobby.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: And my job is my jobby.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: Um it should be on a t-shirt.
39:35
SPEAKER_06: Unless you live in Scotland.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: Army issue.
39:39
SPEAKER_06: Um yeah, I I I I yeah, I can see that.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, unless you live in Scotland.
39:45
SPEAKER_06: Unless you live in Scotland.
39:46
SPEAKER_06: Um I have other friends who have who've um one particular guy, he's he's the most incredible guitar player.
39:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:54
SPEAKER_06: And as as his dad was as well, still is, and uh they were talking about careers at this sort of end of school year, and he said, Look, don't go into playing guitar professionally because you'll lose the love for it.
40:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:07
SPEAKER_06: Keep that as your sideline, go and do something else that earns the money to then be able to facilitate that.
40:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:12
SPEAKER_06: So that I think there's two sides to it.
40:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:14
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I I I wake up on a Monday morning and go, Yes, it's Monday.
40:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:20
SPEAKER_06: You know, I I love what I do.
40:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:22
SPEAKER_06: I get real enjoyment from succeeding at what I do, yeah.
40:26
SPEAKER_06: And and helping and supporting those clients that I've got.
40:30
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
40:31
SPEAKER_06: Which I haven't had in other careers.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, I do get what you're saying, and it is nice to wake up with that feeling of excitement and anticipation.
40:43
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and and the opportunities that the next five days and might uh might bring.
40:50
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: And also that's also very intentional planning on your part because whether you did it with intent or not, you've actually prioritised your well-being in doing that.
41:03
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I I wouldn't say I'm one of those kind of people that struggles with mental health issues.
41:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:11
SPEAKER_06: I know how to regulate myself and I know that if if there are things that are bothering me, I know that something like this will be the thing to sort of dig me out of a hole.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: But also, you know, that balance, that self-care, that life experience.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: It's all important, thank you.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: It's all important, isn't it?
41:32
SPEAKER_06: It is, it is.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think as humans we we are so good at getting sucked into the what we should be doing versus what's good for us.
41:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
41:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: And to enhance our experience of life.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: Because why else are we here?
41:51
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
41:51
SPEAKER_06: You know.
41:52
SPEAKER_06: I think you've there's there's obviously a time and a place for doing what is necessary.
41:57
SPEAKER_06: Of course.
41:58
SPEAKER_06: Because otherwise there are greater consequences.
42:01
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
42:02
SPEAKER_06: And agreed.
42:03
SPEAKER_06: I think there are times where you can afford to prioritize other things.
42:07
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
42:09
SPEAKER_06: I wouldn't say I wouldn't say I took the decision to start my outdoor business purely for that reason, yeah.
42:17
SPEAKER_06: But I recognized that I would enjoy it.
42:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:21
SPEAKER_02: Well that's good.
42:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you go first.
42:23
SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
42:25
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
42:26
SPEAKER_06: So that's that's what we uh that's where we are with that.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: Just getting some footage.
42:34
SPEAKER_06: It's nice, eh?
42:35
SPEAKER_00: It is, it's beautiful.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: I just love it.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: And I also love that there's no one else here.
42:42
SPEAKER_06: No, blackberries.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: And there's so many butterflies.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: I think I've seen more butterflies this summer, generally, than um that's a good thing.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: The last couple of years.
42:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, pick the high ones.
42:59
SPEAKER_06: Are you worried about the dogs?
43:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:01
SPEAKER_06: Some big dogs around here.
43:07
SPEAKER_06: Here you go.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm actually not gonna have any because I've got my retainer on.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: The price of vanity.
43:16
SPEAKER_06: That's fine.
43:16
SPEAKER_06: I embraced this once.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:19
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
43:19
SPEAKER_06: Hey, they did a wonderful thing of bringing my teeth back in line.
43:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:23
SPEAKER_06: And then I got a I got one of those plastic retainers.
43:26
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
43:27
SPEAKER_06: And this was back in the day when it was horrible.
43:30
SPEAKER_06: You could see it, it was sort of yeah.
43:33
SPEAKER_06: So I took it out, and guess what?
43:34
SPEAKER_06: My teeth went back to the normal stage.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: But hey ho, that's the problem, isn't it?
43:38
SPEAKER_06: It was a fun 18 months with braces.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm having Invisalign done just for my bottom set of teeth because um just to protect them going forward from food getting stuck, etc.
43:51
SPEAKER_00: And um my dentist said you meant to wear them for 22 hours a day, and I was like, When do you take them out?
43:58
SPEAKER_00: That means that I can only eat for two.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: hours a day.
44:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's gonna work.
44:06
SPEAKER_00: So now I've had to really dig deep and get really disciplined and drink my coffee in ten minutes instead of five hours.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: So yeah it's been a it's been a challenge.
44:18
SPEAKER_00: Um how are the blackberries uh a mixed batch yeah sour one was sour yeah um but we're uh we're doing okay I mean they're they're nice here good that's what it's all about I love it oh it's just so beautiful just all these like rolling hills cows are sitting down having a nice time yeah love that trying to chat to us cows are scary though I would not want to go on after you um want to have to face them very often you see I I'm less I'm not bothered by cows.
45:01
SPEAKER_06: Okay I think I mean I grew up in a very another rural area of the country and cows were just normal.
45:09
SPEAKER_06: Yeah my my family my wife and kids they're terrified are they but at the end of the day I think you get you get used to it and you just understand when they're gonna do something stupid.
45:21
SPEAKER_06: Yeah but just I think the greatest assistance to perhaps overcoming that problem of uh you know not wanting to go into those yeah those those fields or perhaps they're on a pathway or something is just being confident about it.
45:36
SPEAKER_06: Right.
45:37
SPEAKER_06: Cows will naturally come towards you because they're inquisitive okay or they think that you're the farmer that's going to give them the oh okay whatever they need.
45:45
SPEAKER_06: Yeah and it's just I suppose being mindful of mindful of what they're doing behind you and and just you know don't dwell on it by any means don't go and hunt out cows but you know no I wasn't planning they're they're a staple of the British landscape.
46:02
SPEAKER_06: They are and why should you be we're in their space to be fair.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah now I see them once in a while at Brad Bell yes and sometimes I just turn around because they're they're really clever.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: They are they will block your path on purpose yes and look at you in a really mean way.
46:20
SPEAKER_06: They like looking in they like they like sitting down in places don't they just really awkward places.
46:27
SPEAKER_06: Yeah um so that you can you know create a bit of a bit of a crossing and just generally have a a more exciting time.
46:36
SPEAKER_06: Yeah oh this is beautiful I think we're uh we can see school not from here oh amazing we're coming towards territory that I won't recognise yeah oh it's beautiful we just got a shepherd hot over there as well is it a pile of stones it probably is I think that's probably what it is oh it's the remains of the wall oh okay yeah let's get a quick selfie here beautiful so business yeah oh are we going this way or that way good question this is the more trodden path yeah the point so I would yeah I would not that that is the only law but let's have a look it does deviate into the middle and we go around that contour which is this bit here and then cross over the wall not next to the fence line here.
47:31
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
47:32
SPEAKER_06: So I'd say take this one.
47:33
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
47:34
SPEAKER_06: But equally you can see it where the ground's been trodden on more more than that one over there.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah that's a good top tip isn't it look out for the walking trails.
47:45
SPEAKER_06: Yeah I mean you can you can get sucked into doing the wrong thing there but yeah combining it with the distance from the wall yeah the fact that the ground is higher over here than it is over there and you're sort of following the line of this around is all sort of contribute towards making that being in the right place.
48:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:04
SPEAKER_00: And having a dot on a screen telling you exactly where you are is always helpful too helpful but going back to before we it's it is also good to have a backup offline plan.
48:15
SPEAKER_06: Yes yes which is why I brought a paper map.
48:18
SPEAKER_00: Yes amazing so I bought my first OS map for my navigation skills course and compass.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh excellent oh it was really funny so when we did the compass bit um we were all told to to sort of orientate ourselves and then um should always be the first thing you do and then we all set off in different directions.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: Brilliant it was so funny you couldn't write it oh okay should have to get my feet in the right order.
48:50
SPEAKER_06: Yeah you couldn't write it was so funny I think they must have anticipated that happening yeah it was so funny anyway we all came together in the end good given we were navigating to the same place yeah that was hilarious looking looking around the field like why am I on my own and everybody else is over there.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: And one of the guys in our group was about to go off a cliff so yeah it was very funny very very fun as well I'd encourage everyone to do some kind of outdoor outdoor orienteering course.
49:26
SPEAKER_06: Well the uh there is a particularly if you live in the South Lakes there's a there's a lakes I think is it South Lakes Orienteering Club oh sir they do some brilliant activities yeah obviously it's orienteering based yeah um but particularly over school holidays oh okay they're great for getting kids out and about oh fantastic and that's really low cost yeah uh and you get a map and you you you have to provide your own compass.
49:51
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
49:52
SPEAKER_06: But the trails are you know you can increase in difficulty if you you know want to do more advanced stuff and obviously some people do that.
50:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
50:01
SPEAKER_06: But just if you you're a family even if you're a family with in some cases push chairs and carriers and bits and bobs like that yeah you can still go and do these activities and get out and about and you know it's good to get kids involved and reading maps and thinking about cardinal points and right what does that what does a hill look like on the map and you know that sort of thing is a cardinal point.
50:24
SPEAKER_06: So we're talking about north south east and west those kind of cardinal points yeah um just to uh yeah help people point their maps in the right direction and yeah it's good life skills but also a good family activity to do and it's just great being outside isn't it I just love it.
50:40
SPEAKER_00: Exactly I love it having said that I have had two days where I didn't particularly walk but I did a lot of gym time.
50:49
SPEAKER_06: Are you feeling the DOMs right now?
50:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah a bit sore I was very slow up the hill to the station okay okay but I'm um probably not gonna do today because today was leg day okay or is leg day well we've worked hard getting up that hill though haven't we I think so and talking at the same time I mean we should be up for some kind of I had to slow down first maybe I'm talking too much.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: You're not at all it's really fun it's really interesting stuff like it's such a transition in career I think that's what I'm so taken by and it's such a brave move because you could have chosen to just get an IT job couldn't you and you would have got one.
51:31
SPEAKER_06: Well you say that that's kind of where this is going to some extent oh interesting there's as much as as much as the photography and video and other bits and bobs are still very much an important part of what I'm doing.
51:46
SPEAKER_06: Yeah um I'm I'm adapting.
51:49
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
51:50
SPEAKER_06: Because I feel that there's absolutely a need to do that yeah um and offer offer my clients and those that I've not yet come to work with um with uh something that helps them achieve what they need to do.
52:07
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
52:08
SPEAKER_06: So every time I well nearly every time I go and speak with a new client a new new hotel or restaurant particularly those that are run by perhaps families or you know uh small groups of individuals and they're juggling lots of balls all day long.
52:26
SPEAKER_06: There might be or typically there's one person that's put in charge of marketing and is usually the person I end up speaking with.
52:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
52:34
SPEAKER_06: And they've we've had a lot of churn in the hospitality industry in the last sort of six to eight months in particular.
52:43
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
52:43
SPEAKER_06: You know increasing national insurance contributions reduction in staff local issues with affordable housing for staff to live in which then impacts on the the workforce yeah and all that contributes towards uh the environment within your hospitality businesses yeah where you've got basically lots of people missing and so you've got to do other jobs sort of you've got to juggle the jobs yourself haven't you yeah so anyway your hotel or whoever there's usually that person who's responsible for all of this right and it can come at a time where because they've got so much juggling to do yeah they might not have the time they might not have the experience to be able to think logically and strategically about what they're doing yeah and the more important question why they're doing it.
53:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
53:42
SPEAKER_00: So we're thinking about the strategy behind content creation yeah because it's not just a case of the the what because then you just be throwing stuff out on social media with nothing no strategy no relevance to what you're doing.
53:59
SPEAKER_06: Exactly yeah and when you've got tighter budgets yeah when you've got limited time and uh well yeah resource to be able to apply to what you're doing on a daily basis that busy hotel marketer yeah you've really got to pay attention to the why yeah and and have that strategy to be able to to be able to um get the results that you need.
54:24
SPEAKER_04: Sure.
54:25
SPEAKER_06: Yeah so we're so the way in which I'm sort of trying to evolve things is I don't just turn up and shoot.
54:35
SPEAKER_06: Yeah because you know I'm creating decoration at that point.
54:40
SPEAKER_06: Yeah you know you as a as a business owner that wants to get the benefit from photos and video yeah they need to see a return and to do that I need to understand what it is they're doing and why they're doing it.
54:52
SPEAKER_06: Yeah so everything that I do starts with that question why yeah excuse me yeah and we follow a I follow a structured marketing process.
55:02
SPEAKER_06: Yeah you know nothing fancy we talk about objectives what does the business want to do and why yeah what are they trying to do uh you know is it a revenue goal is it a is it a uh opportunity to um get involved in a new market are you trying to reposition are you trying to offer different services what what you know what's the what's the purpose behind what we're doing yeah because when you understand that yeah you know what it is that you should be measuring yeah to demonstrate success.
55:31
SPEAKER_00: Is that interesting I always say this when I do my IT work always start at the end point.
55:37
SPEAKER_06: Yeah yeah what what's what does success look like yeah and to get to that you then go through this you know you think about what okay so we want let's say we want a revenue goal yeah we want to double a particular domain maybe you want to sell more um more more restaurants covers okay in your in your hotel restaurant yeah that then informs your marketing yeah you're then changing or perhaps adapting your messaging your tone the audience that you're looking for and all those things contribute to the kind of content that you create yeah so there's a difference between there might be you know you could create two very different videos sorry very similar videos yeah but with nuances which very much resonate with a one particular audience over another.
56:27
SPEAKER_06: Yeah so you might have a luxury hotel providing um sort of relaxation and you know your spas and um maybe uh nice looking viewpoints over a lake or with relaxing chairs and that kind of thing yeah which is very much one type of audience and then your other audience is those people perhaps like me who like going to places putting on a you know your climbing harness and going out for a full day up up uh up on a hill.
56:58
SPEAKER_06: Yeah okay both looking for relaxation yeah but that manifests in very different ways and therefore you you need to think about that when you then create your content.
57:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
57:06
SPEAKER_06: Because I'm sure those people that love a spa yes would think of nothing worse than going out in the getting up at crack of dawn and going out in the fells going climbing and not coming back coming back until you know seven or eight at night yeah having eaten a sandwich that you've squashed into your helmet.
57:25
SPEAKER_00: So with the marketing well exactly um with the marketing side of things how did you sort of did you have to upskill yeah so this is one of those one of those moments where you know go over that sort of five years that I've been I've been doing this professionally you need to you need to understand marketing for your own your own business sake.
57:46
SPEAKER_06: Of course but I I really enjoy the sort of psychology of understanding how people are affected by marketing for the purpose of you know for for changing their buying hit their their buying attitudes or the the reasons for buying something so you can you can do something yeah it has an effect on an individual which causes an action and that for me is I I love that I I love the sort of the science bit behind that.
58:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah there's an equation there.
58:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah yeah and I guess you've seen the results haven't you yeah yeah of course it's proven but the the other thing sorry just to interrupt there the other thing is that everything I'm saying you know you can you can justify yeah you know it's it makes sense it's logical and going back to that need for being logical yeah um if it doesn't make sense yeah how do you justify it?
58:41
SPEAKER_06: Yeah exactly I I want my my clients to be able to say at the end of it we can justify the spend that we've we've had on working with Al.
58:50
SPEAKER_06: Yeah because if they can't justify it through the results yeah there's no point in them coming back to work with me.
58:56
SPEAKER_06: Exactly and I I am the first to admit that okay maybe we've not got it right there.
59:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
59:00
SPEAKER_06: But that's never happened.
59:02
SPEAKER_06: That's awesome.
59:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah touch word touch all the things indeed yeah that's great and also testament to your drive and your commitment to to help yeah and in doing so you're sort of working on yourself because that's what we all have to do don't we?
59:17
SPEAKER_06: Well indeed yeah I think I think there are a lot of content creators out there that are excellent yeah at doing the creative bit.
59:27
SPEAKER_06: Yes agreed but as you said earlier on everybody is now able to take a picture yeah not everybody is able to be a photographer and the business side yeah and the the value that you give to people by creating content for them is more important.
59:45
SPEAKER_06: Yeah so you've got to be able to you've got to be able to justify it.
59:48
SPEAKER_06: As a small business owner it can be really soul destroying can't it yeah it can be like because I think we've all been stung exhausting we've all been stung by you know the next big thing that we've seen on on social media yeah you've got a you've got a buzzard up there you can hear it as well got it but I heard it yeah you can still hear it yeah fortunately not being surrounded by crows but yeah yeah I think I think getting back to it we've all been stung perhaps by by services that we've received in the past and we walk away thinking didn't really give me what I wanted.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_00: And some of those services are quite expensive.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_06: They can be quite expensive.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_06: Yeah and and then your small business you haven't got that no you can't afford to do that you can't afford to do that.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_06: Yeah well it's a little stream yeah oh how lovely so this this understanding of marketing and understanding of how to demonstrate that value yeah is is my next sort of addition to my content creation services.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_06: Yeah so I'm in the process now of creating uh an end-to-end strategic marketing app okay which will be it should I'm di I'm doing this specifically for hospitality businesses.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_06: Okay amazing and the way I want it to work uh is that it will follow a a formalized um framework marketing framework and it will encourage the user to be able to enter the data that they need yeah so that in a in a logical sense so that at the end of it they know what content they need to produce yeah who they need to include to collaborate with to um be able to facilitate that to be able to make it and then be able to see the value at the end of it in quantifiable terms.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_06: Yeah because only then again does the app demonstrate its its value but equally the business will be able to see that by following this process and uh and and doing it consistently then they're able to actually get to the goals that they you know set out at the start.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_06: That's fantastic that sounds amazing so um do we have time scales uh I think I'm I'm I'm hopeful that before Christmas okay I'll have something available to to share with people.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_06: Amazing yeah there's a number of different parts to this and I'm gonna have to slow down again you've done nothing is that uh yeah by having the buy-in from agencies yeah it gives it gives the user the the hotel owner who whoever yeah the opportunity to be able to get specialist support yeah directly in the app and be able to see what they're doing yeah so that let's say your agency call them the agency or whatever yeah they are providing the service and there's that level of transparency that you can you can exactly see what they're doing when they're doing when they're doing it and what the results are.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_06: So it helps with that transparency aspect but equally if the business wants to do it themselves they can equally do that.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_06: Yeah hopefully I'm making sense.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_00: You are making sense um I was going to I was going to do my own plug right now for excellent some marketing friends um in case you've not heard of them so there's Mel Newton I had a chat with her last week you did yes she's lovely she is and she's got her a conference marketing summit Cumbria that's it's well last year it was Cumbria's first marketing summit this year it's the second and it's uh Furness College in October 17th there you go yeah amazing and then there's Del Parsons as well I've not met Delketer and um has loads of online content I don't know if she specifically focuses on women's businesses or sorry can you just leave her um but yeah she's she's definitely online and worth checking out you know despite it being so grey are we going this way I was looking at all the yellows that's a good that's a good question let's have a quick look at the map there's so many we are going oh I think it's this way yeah no no no so the Dales way oh that's going backwards yeah sorry I'm looking at this one yeah depends on the water we're good we gotta go up a hill a bit more so so like when we did Hadrian's wall we were following the acorns and then we still got lost yeah like how do we do that?
1:04:53
SPEAKER_00: There's quite a lot of that on the road though isn't there yeah there is a lot on the road yeah which is a shame really there's not a lot of war left no which is unfortunate but it's sort of it sort of in the first third is that right yeah but starting in the Carlisle end yeah yeah so we start yeah that's where we started and ended up in Newcastle.
1:05:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah um yeah that sounds really great Al and like a really nice way to grow your business offerings.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_06: Yeah you see I I figured that there are going to be times where businesses will want to collaborate with uh agencies.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_06: Yeah there'll be times where they won't and they'll want to do things themselves and I yeah well the thing that plugs this all together yeah or the glue that sticks it all together is still the content creator.
1:05:44
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:05:44
SPEAKER_06: And so that's why and there's an additional feature here is that there's there's going to be a a a a supplier directory.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_04: Right so whether you need yeah whether you need a graphic designer, somebody to do photos or videos
1:06:00
SPEAKER_06: Or maybe it's a model, or somebody to do hair makeup.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:06:06
SPEAKER_06: I want to appeal to those creators and those supporting suppliers to then you know create an ecosystem where you've got everything that you need to create the content that you need for your business.
1:06:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you're kind of calling in the community, aren't you?
1:06:26
SPEAKER_00: The business community.
1:06:27
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_00: We're going uphill again.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_06: I know.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_06: I should have looked at the map a little bit more earlier.
1:06:35
SPEAKER_00: We're all good.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_00: I'll try and magic dust out the panting.
1:06:39
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_06: Well, at least at least leg day's done.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, leg day is definitely done.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_00: The gym is not happening today.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_00: No, that sounds really great.
1:06:52
SPEAKER_00: Considering when you started your photography business, you probably didn't even have this in your sights.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_06: No, no, not at all.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_06: Not at all.
1:07:01
SPEAKER_06: But quick plug to um Tech Cumbria, who I went to see.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_06: There's a there's a lovely little community there.
1:07:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:07:09
SPEAKER_06: I went to I went to my first meeting uh in Barrow a couple of weeks ago.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_06: And yeah, very insightful, great bunch of people.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_06: And if there are other creators out there that want to sort of do more techie stuff, it's absolutely a place to go, I'd say.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_06: Um yeah, we've gone wrong again.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_06: We need to go, we don't have to go up this hill.
1:07:31
SPEAKER_06: We're gonna go around it instead.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_06: So it's a good job I'm on board.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_06: It's a good job I stopped there to take a reader.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_00: Because I was ready to march on.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_06: That's it.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_06: Everybody who's listening to this who knows how to read a map is gonna be going, this guy hasn't got a clue.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_00: No, I think well, we are distracted.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_06: We're distracted, yeah.
1:07:48
SPEAKER_06: We're distracted by quality conversation and sheep.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna earn sheep.
1:07:53
SPEAKER_00: So many.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_00: I like the way they just stare when you walk past.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:07:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, who are you on my turf?
1:08:01
SPEAKER_06: The little beady eyes that go the wrong way.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it is nice.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_00: It's a nice way to use Monday morning.
1:08:08
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, who'd go to work on a Monday?
1:08:10
SPEAKER_06: I mean, if you could do this all day.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
1:08:13
SPEAKER_06: Right, yeah, so we need to go up here and that looks a little bit flatter.
1:08:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that does.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_00: Cool, okay.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_00: Um so hopefully by December you'll start rolling it out to some of your clients, maybe.
1:08:25
SPEAKER_06: Yes, I'm gonna start with I'm gonna start with those clients of mine that have uh expressed an interest in getting involved.
1:08:31
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:08:32
SPEAKER_06: Um I'm as of now uh about to release uh I suppose uh an email list uh a community that people can get involved with to hear about the updates, but also I'm really keen to get the perspective of other people and you know what's what's going to be useful for them?
1:08:51
SPEAKER_06: How how can I help how can I service their particular hotel um restaurant uh experience, whatever it is that you do within the hospitality industry?
1:09:03
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and how can the app that I'm developing benefit you?
1:09:08
SPEAKER_06: So um hopefully we can put the put the link.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, is that a thing?
1:09:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is a thing.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_06: Put the thing put the link in the in the the podcast description, yeah.
1:09:17
SPEAKER_06: So that if people are wanting to find out more about it, they can follow.
1:09:21
SPEAKER_06: They can they can go and and and subscribe to this.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_06: And it's not I'm not I'm not intending to bombard people with with emails because frankly I struggle to do that just just through a time perspective rather than anything else.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_06: Um you're holding court.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_06: That's it.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_06: But if uh but if people are interested, then please do uh do click the link and and and get involved.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_06: Um but it's got a name, uh-huh.
1:09:46
SPEAKER_06: It's called Content Team.
1:09:48
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
1:09:49
SPEAKER_06: Uh and uh yeah, there's that's a fun one.
1:09:52
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, this is a funny one.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so it'll be the the domain is content-team.com.
1:10:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay, fabulous.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_06: So it's nice and simple.
1:10:03
SPEAKER_06: Hopefully it does what it says on the tin.
1:10:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:10:05
SPEAKER_06: But yeah, if people are interested in then please come and come and get involved and let me know what you think.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_06: If you think it's a rubbish idea, tell me that as well.
1:10:13
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, I don't think it's a rubbish idea, and actually I think it's a really good starting point for people who don't know where to start.
1:10:21
SPEAKER_06: That's it, that's it.
1:10:22
SPEAKER_06: I mean, there's gonna be many businesses that are not gonna be able to afford to pay for an agency on a regular basis.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_06: Um, and that's all that's all part of the journey that you know we we've all gone through that.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_06: Um but uh yeah, hopefully this will be a way for them to do what they need to do with with some help and instruction and yeah, guidance and stuff.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_00: And I think what's nice is that you're really open about your own journey and you're not saying that you're perfect, I'm not perfect.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_00: You're kind of saying you've got your own journey, this is how you've got to this point, yeah.
1:10:54
SPEAKER_00: And we're all learning together in a way as well.
1:10:57
SPEAKER_06: Yes, yeah.
1:10:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's nice.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna put you on the spot a little bit.
1:11:02
SPEAKER_06: Go on then.
1:11:03
SPEAKER_00: So, how would you rate your entrepreneurial career so far?
1:11:10
SPEAKER_06: Uh okay, so I think uh obviously because I am who I am, I'm gonna give it two strands.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_06: The success of the end product, yeah, is that no, as in the business, yes, and then the success of the products that I deliver to clients.
1:11:26
SPEAKER_06: And I think there are two separate things because and this is where the the upskilling and the abilities in both business and and and and being a creator sort of differ.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_06: I've been doing the creative stuff for a lot longer, yeah.
1:11:39
SPEAKER_06: Um which is why the product that I create for my clients is a lot higher than perhaps my entrepreneurial and business sense, which on the other side uh which could do with work.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_06: You know, I don't think I'm there, I'm certainly not where I want to be.
1:11:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:11:56
SPEAKER_06: Um we're we're getting there, obviously, and I think that's that's just uh that's just a journey I think every business owner goes through.
1:12:03
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you know, sometimes you might feel like you're in that only fools and horses moment of we've made it, Rodney, we've made it.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but but actually, I think the large majority of businesses they're still still waiting for this time next year, yeah.
1:12:18
SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_06: But uh, but yeah, in answer to your question, great for creative stuff, yes, you know, and the the product that I deliver my my my clients, yeah.
1:12:28
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, and if there were a top three tips um you would share with anyone starting out on their entrepreneurial journey, okay, what would they be?
1:12:44
SPEAKER_06: Right.
1:12:45
SPEAKER_06: So the first one is something that I'm I'm coming to terms with now, uh-huh, and it's coining a phrase that I've heard from a guy called Adam Stott.
1:12:53
SPEAKER_06: And you might have you might have heard of him.
1:12:55
SPEAKER_06: He's a uh he's a serial entrepreneur in his own right, used to sell cars, okay, but he's got podcasts, he's got YouTube accounts, all sorts of stuff, yeah, raised millions of pounds, and he's now a business coach.
1:13:07
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
1:13:07
SPEAKER_06: And the the term that he uses is paying the dumb tax.
1:13:11
SPEAKER_06: Right.
1:13:12
SPEAKER_06: Which is if you imagine a scenario where you try you go through trial and error, yeah, and you incrementally learn about what it is that you need to do to order in order to um have we gone the right way?
1:13:27
SPEAKER_00: If we're turning left or right.
1:13:29
SPEAKER_06: No, we're good.
1:13:30
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, uh no, it is slightly that way.
1:13:33
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, um, is that uh dumb tax, yeah.
1:13:37
SPEAKER_06: So a business is um doing things incrementally, they're on their own, they're trying to figure it out.
1:13:43
SPEAKER_06: It might not cost you as much up front to get to where you want to be.
1:13:48
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but actually, if you'd paid for the expertise and the coaching up front, you would have got to where you wanted to be a lot quicker.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_00: So it's a false economy, isn't it?
1:14:01
SPEAKER_06: The false economy of thinking that you can just do all the things yourself, yeah.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_06: Um, and not actually achieve what it is that you need to in a in a reasonable time scale.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_06: I'm just gonna check the map again because I think it's important point.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_06: No, it's not that way.
1:14:15
SPEAKER_06: We need to go up the road a little bit more.
1:14:17
SPEAKER_00: That's pork.
1:14:18
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:14:19
SPEAKER_06: So that's the first tip is yeah, don't don't fall into the trap of paying for the dumb tax, thinking you can do everything yourself.
1:14:26
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, okay.
1:14:27
SPEAKER_06: So if you need a mentor, go and get a mentor.
1:14:30
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:14:30
SPEAKER_06: If you need to join a networking group, like this sort of collaborative groups where they they train, um, that's sort of train, but they provide an element of teaching as well as networking, yeah, then you know, great, go and do that as well.
1:14:42
SPEAKER_06: Don't don't don't try and work in isolation thinking you can do everything on your own because you're never gonna you're never gonna achieve it.
1:14:49
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:14:50
SPEAKER_06: Um, so that's top tip number one.
1:14:53
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, love it.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_06: Top tip number two.
1:14:56
SPEAKER_06: Um marketing.
1:15:03
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I think yeah, it's gonna be there's the two tips here are gonna be about marketing and sales because marketing obviously is well marketing is that function in your business that provides the sales team with the opportunities to sell.
1:15:20
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:15:21
SPEAKER_06: If you if you're not doing marketing, your sales guys and girls have got to do a lot more.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:15:27
SPEAKER_06: So the first tip is embrace marketing.
1:15:30
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you've got to embrace marketing, you've got to see it as a revenue generator, an enabler, uh-huh.
1:15:39
SPEAKER_06: Okay, an income stream, yeah, rather than seeing it as a cost.
1:15:44
SPEAKER_06: Right.
1:15:45
SPEAKER_06: So if you are thinking, you know, we're we're we're struggling on budget here, yeah.
1:15:51
SPEAKER_06: We're gonna the first thing we're gonna do is drop the marketing budget.
1:15:53
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
1:15:54
SPEAKER_00: But that's what's gonna bring your money into.
1:15:56
SPEAKER_06: That's the thing that's gonna create the opportunities, which is gonna get you out of the hole.
1:15:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:15:59
SPEAKER_06: So why would you do it?
1:16:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:16:02
SPEAKER_06: Um, so that's tip number two, embrace the marketing.
1:16:04
SPEAKER_06: The third thing is, and the thing that I've really struggled with, is pick up the phone.
1:16:08
SPEAKER_06: Right, talk to as many people as you can, um, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's just social.
1:16:16
SPEAKER_06: Social is not a strategy, right?
1:16:19
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that should be a t-shirt as well.
1:16:21
SPEAKER_06: It should be a t-shirt as well.
1:16:23
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but the greatest opportunities will come from having personal interactions with people, yeah, rather than hoping that you know doing a social post is gonna save all your problems, yeah.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_06: You know, talking to people, and it's still the way to do it.
1:16:39
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it increases in AI, yeah, you've got to talk to people because you don't know what you're talking to otherwise.
1:16:45
SPEAKER_00: You actually can't delete yourself from the process.
1:16:48
SPEAKER_06: No, no, no, I suppose there's a there's a 3B here, yeah.
1:16:54
SPEAKER_06: And if you're rubb if you're rubbish at talking to people, yeah, get somebody in your business who isn't.
1:17:00
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, yeah.
1:17:01
SPEAKER_00: No, yeah, someone who's gonna step up for you.
1:17:04
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
1:17:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's okay actually, isn't it?
1:17:07
SPEAKER_06: To recognise that you've just been good at this sign of a good boss.
1:17:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:17:11
SPEAKER_06: You know, I know I am rubbish at this, but I know that that isn't a function that I need in my business.
1:17:16
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, therefore, I'm gonna find somebody to do it for me.
1:17:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
1:17:20
SPEAKER_00: You know?
1:17:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that.
1:17:22
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
1:17:22
SPEAKER_00: That's the strength.
1:17:23
SPEAKER_06: Good morning.
1:17:25
SPEAKER_06: I think we need to go there.
1:17:26
SPEAKER_06: There we go.
1:17:26
SPEAKER_06: It's even a sign.
1:17:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, fancy that going through two houses.
1:17:32
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so there were my three and a bit tips.
1:17:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, those are great.
1:17:35
SPEAKER_00: I love those.
1:17:36
SPEAKER_00: And thanks for doing that off the cuff.
1:17:38
SPEAKER_00: Getting your authentic view on things.
1:17:41
SPEAKER_06: Well, yeah, whether it's right or not is another matter.
1:17:44
SPEAKER_06: I guess people would judge for themselves.
1:17:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I think that's really really good of you to share because it can be such a isolating journey.
1:17:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:17:54
SPEAKER_00: And when you're sorting out, you actually don't even know these things, so you you don't know, you just don't know what you don't know.
1:18:01
SPEAKER_00: No, no, and some will sometimes some people have to sit you down and spell it out.
1:18:06
SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
1:18:07
SPEAKER_06: So there was one person that if I could attribute some recent success to, yeah, it would be uh Alison McGee Barker.
1:18:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
1:18:17
SPEAKER_01: Do you know Alison?
1:18:18
SPEAKER_01: I do, yeah.
1:18:18
SPEAKER_06: She's lovely, yeah.
1:18:19
SPEAKER_00: She is lovely.
1:18:20
SPEAKER_06: And she knows her onions.
1:18:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:18:22
SPEAKER_00: Um she's very um knowledgeable in hospitality as well, isn't it?
1:18:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:18:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:18:27
SPEAKER_06: Now she works for me in a in a sense of I I get along with her.
1:18:32
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:18:33
SPEAKER_06: Because I need that.
1:18:36
SPEAKER_06: I need I I I don't do woolly.
1:18:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:18:39
SPEAKER_06: I I don't do you need straightforward.
1:18:43
SPEAKER_06: Don't don't don't don't pander to my emotions.
1:18:45
SPEAKER_06: Just just just give it to me straight because that's that's who I am.
1:18:50
SPEAKER_06: I'm very, I suppose almost very black and white.
1:18:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:18:53
SPEAKER_06: Uh and that works for me.
1:18:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:18:56
SPEAKER_06: I'm not saying Alison doesn't work in those other domains at all.
1:18:59
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:19:00
SPEAKER_06: But she's she's she can she can tailor her style of mentoring to uh to suit the audience, and for me it was it was really helpful because she just she didn't take any crap.
1:19:14
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:19:15
SPEAKER_00: But that is what you need, so you need you don't want to have to wade through the fluff to get to the point.
1:19:23
SPEAKER_06: No, no, yeah.
1:19:25
SPEAKER_00: As much as the fluff is lovely, we all like a little pat on the back, yeah, it's not gonna help.
1:19:31
SPEAKER_06: No, so if it if it helps her, then absolutely.
1:19:34
SPEAKER_06: But yeah, if you're looking for somebody to help you and you're in hospitality, go and give Alison a call.
1:19:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:19:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's lovely.
1:19:40
SPEAKER_06: She hasn't paid me to say that, by the way.
1:19:42
SPEAKER_00: It's just I was gonna say, how many backhanders are we getting from this podcast?
1:19:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm getting none.
1:19:47
SPEAKER_00: I don't know about you.
1:19:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm getting none.
1:19:50
SPEAKER_06: Maybe we should have thought about that beforehand.
1:19:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:19:52
SPEAKER_00: Next time.
1:19:53
SPEAKER_00: Strategy when we do the part two post-launch.
1:19:57
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
1:19:58
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
1:19:58
SPEAKER_00: Give it some time to bed in.
1:20:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks, Al, that was awesome.
1:20:04
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
1:20:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we do have what another 10 miles before we get home.
1:20:09
SPEAKER_06: I don't think we've got that far now.
1:20:10
SPEAKER_06: I think we'll we'll we'll get over the crest of this hill.
1:20:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:20:14
SPEAKER_06: And you're gonna be any backyard.
1:20:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well we've done, according to Garmin, we've done 3.66 miles.
1:20:21
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
1:20:21
SPEAKER_00: And we've been keeping a pace for 24 minutes.
1:20:24
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
1:20:25
SPEAKER_00: Which is pretty good giving we're talking about.
1:20:26
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I'm not even out of breath, I don't know about you, but I'm fine.
1:20:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you very much.
1:20:34
SPEAKER_01: It's been a pleasure.
1:20:48
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for walking the Dales way with us today.
1:20:51
SPEAKER_00: We had such a good time.
1:20:54
SPEAKER_00: So many giggles on the day, especially with the pace of the walk, and trying not to be the first to say we needed to slow down.
1:21:03
SPEAKER_00: I thoroughly enjoyed Al's company and would happily join Al on another adventure, as long as I don't have to read the map.
1:21:11
SPEAKER_00: I hope Al's journey gave you something to think about, whether that's about your own career path, how you approach marketing, or simply how you balance work with the life you actually want to live.
1:21:24
SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed this episode, here's what I'd love you to do.
1:21:28
SPEAKER_00: Head over to secanya.com, that's su-kany4.com.
1:21:37
SPEAKER_00: There you'll find the full write-up of this conversation with Al, including links to content team, his photography work, and all the resources we mentioned today.
1:21:48
SPEAKER_00: While you're there, check out previous episodes and see where else we've walked.
1:21:53
SPEAKER_00: Subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast so you don't miss future conversations.
1:21:58
SPEAKER_00: And if you've got thoughts on this episode or suggestions for where I should walk next, drop me a message through the website.
1:22:08
SPEAKER_00: Remember, the best paths aren't always straight lines, and sometimes the market knows better than your business plan.
1:22:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm Sakania and I'll see you on the next walk.