Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / "The Lost Daughter": A Movie That Many Moms Will Identify With

Transcript

"The Lost Daughter": A Movie That Many Moms Will Identify With · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:00
  Hi, everybody, and welcome to this episode of the doctor.
• 0:03
  Psych mom show. Today, we are going to talk
• 0:06
  about a movie that I watched called The Lost daughter.
• 0:09
  And this was based on a book that then, I also read to make
• 0:14
  sure that I was understanding the movie by Elena Ferrante.
• 0:17
  And so after I take my little break, where I tell you guys to
• 0:21
  subscribe, I am going to be talking about aspects of the
• 0:24
  movie, so that could and does include spoilers.
• 0:28
  So if you don't want to hear this, Spoilers then Now's the
• 0:31
  Time to not listen to this episode and go watch the movie
• 0:34
  and then come back. So remember I and I'll tell you
• 0:38
  one more time because I hate spoilers so I don't want you to
• 0:41
  get any spoilers if you don't want any.
• 0:43
  But then there's some weird people like my oldest who like
• 0:45
  read the end of the book before the beginning.
• 0:48
  So like some of y'all who are intending to listen to the
• 0:53
  podcast made, then just go want to watch the movie anyway, which
• 0:57
  is something I wouldn't do or maybe I would, but who knows.
• 1:00
  Those anyway, so now it's when I tell you to subscribe because I
• 1:05
  have lots of subscriber episodes coming out and one of them, the
• 1:09
  next one or the most. Recent one is about binge eating
• 1:12
  and drinking and that was a follower request.
• 1:16
  So you can listen to that if relevant to you or relevant to
• 1:19
  anybody that you are close to. And honestly, binge eating or
• 1:23
  drinking is super common. So I would be shocked if there
• 1:26
  was not anybody that it applied to So anyhow, what is the movie
• 1:30
  about? So the movie is about an older
• 1:33
  woman, who goes on vacation. And in the beginning, we see
• 1:36
  that she has some telephone calls with her grown daughters
• 1:40
  who are in their 20s and she's supposed to be, I think in her
• 1:44
  oh I know how old she supposed to be in our late 40s and it's
• 1:48
  not doesn't seem to be terribly close phone conversations, but
• 1:53
  we don't really understand why they do say.
• 1:55
  I love you to each other on the phone, then the woman goes on to
• 1:58
  the Each. And that's when the real bulk of
• 2:01
  The Story begins, when she Encounters this whole big
• 2:04
  family, and this family includes a young woman and her early 20s,
• 2:09
  who has a young daughter, who's supposed to be around for maybe.
• 2:14
  I don't know around there and the the movie that includes this
• 2:19
  older woman getting weirdly involved with this family and
• 2:24
  the specifically this mother and daughter who we see through
• 2:27
  flashbacks is really triggering a Lot of memories of her own
• 2:30
  parenting experience of her two young daughters, you know,
• 2:34
  around 20 years ago. And Within These flashbacks that
• 2:39
  we see a lot of what the actual experience of mothering is like.
• 2:43
  And so, that's why I am telling you about this.
• 2:46
  Because I mean, I watch a lot of shit.
• 2:48
  I don't tell you guys about most of it, so but this in particular
• 2:52
  was really resonates with the few women that I've talked to
• 2:55
  about it, that of watched it, but also Personally, and all
• 3:00
  almost all my clients. This really, this movie really
• 3:04
  shows the overwhelm of mothering multiple young children, and the
• 3:09
  physicality of it, particularly, and it was directed by Maggie
• 3:13
  Gyllenhaal. So she's a female director and
• 3:15
  you can really see in my opinion that it was directed by a woman
• 3:19
  who had some experience with this because there's a lot of
• 3:22
  it's very body focused. So there's a lot of sensual kind
• 3:26
  of scenes, there's some sex, Scenes.
• 3:29
  And there's a lot of the physical sensual and
• 3:34
  overwhelming physicality of both sides of being the mother of
• 3:39
  young kids, and how they're always on top of you, and
• 3:41
  they're grabbing you and they're kissing you and they're hugging
• 3:44
  you. But they're also hitting, and
• 3:46
  they're also constantly crying and the noise of it.
• 3:51
  And the thing is she's trying to focus because she's a
• 3:54
  translator, I believe, and she's doing her work and she And her
• 3:59
  husband has a career also and the career of the husband is
• 4:03
  prioritized and she feels upset about that and resentful, and
• 4:09
  she's like, there's a scene where she's trying to do her
• 4:11
  work and she has a headphones in and he's on the phone, but one
• 4:15
  of the girls starts crying and he like, you know, tells her to
• 4:20
  go deal with it. Basically and she tries to put
• 4:22
  her headphones back on because she's so mad and resentful and
• 4:26
  overwhelmed, but the kid keeps crying.
• 4:28
  And then he, you know, the husband kind of pushes her more
• 4:33
  to go out and she does. And the girl is hurt herself.
• 4:37
  She's cut herself minorly and but she's crying and she wants a
• 4:41
  kiss and she wants her mother to kiss it and she won't the mother
• 4:45
  won't kiss it. She takes care of it with the
• 4:46
  Band-Aid but she's just so stressed out and so overwhelmed
• 4:50
  and so resentful. And it's really well done
• 4:53
  because you can see like, anybody watching it is very
• 4:56
  uncomfortable because you could see that the little girl Not her
• 4:59
  fault. And that she wants to get her
• 5:01
  her her need is kind of small in the moment.
• 5:05
  It's negligible, it's something that people would say that a
• 5:08
  mother should definitely do. But in the moment, it seems just
• 5:12
  like the last straw to the mother and she can't bring
• 5:14
  herself to kiss it even though she does do the care of it.
• 5:18
  And she does take care and gives a Band-Aid.
• 5:20
  But then she just goes to the sink and just stands there.
• 5:23
  And there's also episodes where she yells at the kids, too.
• 5:27
  And again, it's really hard to watch.
• 5:28
  If you you've done any of this, and if you're a parent, you've
• 5:30
  done some of this. Particularly, if you are
• 5:33
  parenting, multiple children, that are very close in age that
• 5:36
  are young without hell. And most of this happens, that
• 5:40
  one happened when the guy was in the house, the husband, but he
• 5:42
  was basically not there. He was telling her that he
• 5:45
  couldn't deal with it and where they wouldn't deal with it.
• 5:49
  And there are other scenes that happen like when she loses.
• 5:52
  One of the girls for a little bit which is something that the
• 5:55
  young mother in the in the current time of the movie.
• 5:58
  Is also in the in the family that she's watching on the
• 6:01
  beach, little girl becomes lost and that flashes her back to
• 6:05
  when her own little girl became lost and she was just her and
• 6:08
  she was picking up one and screaming and looking for the
• 6:11
  other which is something that's happened to most people on a
• 6:13
  playground or a beach or something like that.
• 6:16
  And so it was super relatable as they say and then I won't go so
• 6:22
  far as to give you like the real spoiler of how this particular
• 6:26
  mother, the older woman had Reacted to this when she was
• 6:30
  young, but it's unusual and would make most people.
• 6:34
  It's not violent or anything, but it'll make most people, most
• 6:38
  people do not respond this way. So she does.
• 6:41
  And and I will just call it her, her incident.
• 6:49
  So her her incident, which is going to be an under estimation
• 6:52
  of what she actually did. In my mind it was very
• 6:55
  interesting because like, you could think that she's a monster
• 6:58
  for her in Dent, but also, you got to look at it and also, like
• 7:02
  the young woman by the way. Sorry for telling us the
• 7:04
  probably giving you guys PTSD about how your own kids, tell
• 7:07
  stories. But the thing is, is that she
• 7:10
  has her incident of responding. What many would agree is very
• 7:15
  poorly to her children and the young mother in the Here and Now
• 7:20
  doesn't respond that badly. She knows about the incident.
• 7:24
  She gets closer to the woman over time and learns about it
• 7:27
  and she's even drawn. To responding similarly.
• 7:30
  But then she doesn't and, you know, I think she doesn't, which
• 7:34
  I mean, you know, who knows what like the director or the author
• 7:38
  really intended, as the reason that the older woman responded,
• 7:43
  so poorly and the younger woman seems to be responding better.
• 7:46
  I mean, there's two fucking really practical reasons that
• 7:49
  are really going to resonate with you if you've been a mother
• 7:51
  and with hopefully if you're a guy listening to this, you could
• 7:55
  talk about it with your wife to because women really appreciate
• 7:59
  Effort to understand their experience in the most stressful
• 8:02
  stages of parenting. But I think there were two
• 8:05
  really important differences. The first one was that the young
• 8:09
  woman in the here and now that responds better to her daughter,
• 8:12
  then the older woman did, she has helped she has very obvious
• 8:16
  help from her sister-in-law and a whole big bunch of family
• 8:19
  members that is always around. And there are sometimes where
• 8:23
  the younger woman gets overwhelmed and her
• 8:25
  sister-in-law literally takes the girl right out of her hands
• 8:28
  and and brings her like she's like the little girls clutching
• 8:31
  to the mother. The mother is getting very
• 8:33
  overwhelmed, she's even in a store.
• 8:35
  She says something like you're embarrassing me.
• 8:37
  Stop. Stop like do of me or something.
• 8:39
  And then the sister-in-law swoops in physically and the
• 8:43
  sister-in-law also is pregnant for the first time and it's told
• 8:46
  that she's pregnant at the first time at a much older age, then
• 8:49
  the young woman. And so it's kind of implied that
• 8:53
  she's been in this role without her own children.
• 8:56
  Until now she doesn't even still have them, she's pregnant.
• 8:59
  So she's been helping, like, all along in this role where she,
• 9:03
  like, swoops in and is it's physically instrumentally, very
• 9:08
  helpful. And of course, I'm sure that the
• 9:10
  young mother resents this, but also appreciates it, everything
• 9:13
  that you feel ambivalent about, but it's really hard to get to
• 9:16
  the end of your rope if you have.
• 9:18
  He'll also the older woman had multiple small children and zero
• 9:24
  health and this one has helped and just one small child.
• 9:27
  So, I know a lot of women myself included, we thought like they
• 9:31
  were going to be awesome others when they had one kid and then
• 9:34
  the other one comes and you're like what the fuck, they're
• 9:37
  always up my ass and they're fighting with each other and
• 9:39
  they're grabbing each other. And it's more than twice as loud
• 9:42
  because the way an only child play's is way different than the
• 9:45
  way that two children play together and only child with an
• 9:47
  adult versus two children together.
• 9:49
  So anyhow, I feel like there were really practical reasons
• 9:53
  that people can take, you know, can take as object lessons here.
• 9:58
  In terms of what really pushed the older woman over the edge
• 10:02
  again. She didn't do anything violent,
• 10:03
  so if you're an H SP that doesn't like violent.
• 10:05
  Well, if you're in HSP, it is, it can be a difficult movie to
• 10:09
  watch, but it's not like the incidences, her like killing
• 10:12
  them or something, it's not. But anyway, the point is, is if
• 10:18
  you go back and you and you watch this or you have
• 10:21
  flashbacks like this woman does about times that you regret like
• 10:25
  so many mothers do about yelling at the kids or you know, There's
• 10:29
  one incident where she smacks the girl's hand or something
• 10:33
  like that, or you don't give the kiss out of passive aggression
• 10:37
  because you're so tapped out or whatever.
• 10:38
  The case may be, every mother is going to have moments that she
• 10:42
  remembers that you regret think about like how you were not set
• 10:47
  up to succeed. Probably, these were not
• 10:50
  moments. I'm sure when you were getting
• 10:52
  help when you felt like your best self, when you are rested,
• 10:56
  when you felt like you could engage in your life outside.
• 10:58
  Side of the kids in a way that maybe your husband did.
• 11:01
  It wasn't when you had just one child and you were like, calm,
• 11:05
  cool, and collected and playing. That's not when mothers lose
• 11:09
  their shit. It's when usually when you are
• 11:12
  completely tapped out often with multiple small children, not
• 11:16
  getting your sleep not getting help and of course people can,
• 11:20
  you know, lose their shit with an only child to.
• 11:22
  I'm not saying they can't but it's though the more, the more a
• 11:26
  little organisms you're expected to take care of.
• 11:29
  Right? I've been down the harder, it
• 11:30
  is. So the point being that I think
• 11:34
  that this was like a super good movie and to help you feel more
• 11:39
  understanding and empathy with your younger self, which is a
• 11:42
  podcast that I wrote about on a post podcast that I did and a
• 11:46
  post that I wrote both about the stage in your life, where you
• 11:50
  finally feel more empathy for your younger self.
• 11:53
  And this movie could be a good way to expedite.
• 11:57
  Some of that, it Be difficult to watch.
• 12:00
  As anything that leads to change, is difficult to engage
• 12:04
  in to confront things that you don't want to confront.
• 12:07
  However, you know, that's all for the greater good of having a
• 12:12
  maybe a deeper understanding of why you were triggered in
• 12:15
  certain ways that you regret. And if you are, you can think
• 12:20
  about them differently with more empathy to yourself there, you
• 12:23
  could apologize to your children, if relevant, if they
• 12:27
  are at an age where they would, Stand that.
• 12:29
  Or if they remember things that you did you can use it as really
• 12:34
  a way to think about how you cannot act like that.
• 12:37
  Now, even if you have older children, let's say as most of
• 12:41
  my, you know, I have listeners a range of Ages.
• 12:45
  Even if you have children that are in college, it's not like
• 12:47
  they don't annoy you, you know? And so you can watch this and
• 12:51
  think like what did what did the children really need in the
• 12:54
  moment? Why am I responding poorly right
• 12:56
  now? Am I tapped Out?
• 12:58
  Do I feel So overwhelmed have, I not gotten any time to be, who I
• 13:01
  am outside of mothering lately, like, Etc.
• 13:05
  You know, I mean, if honestly had this woman had, the more
• 13:10
  support from her family and another interesting point, by
• 13:13
  the way, with this was, and you have to go into the book to
• 13:16
  learn a little more about this. But she references it during a
• 13:19
  fight that she's having with her husband.
• 13:21
  The older woman in a flashback. She says, like her that
• 13:25
  something about the girls shouldn't be exposed to the shit
• 13:27
  that she grew up. So obviously, she did not have a
• 13:30
  close relationship with her own mother and in the book, it talks
• 13:34
  that the mother was would always snap at them and yell at them
• 13:38
  and the mother herself I think had been abused.
• 13:43
  I don't think I'm making that up.
• 13:43
  I just read this book. I think the mother had been one
• 13:45
  of many and she was in poverty. And so her thing was worse,
• 13:50
  somehow as it usually is you know, every generation tries to
• 13:54
  do a little bit better but sometimes it's still not good
• 13:57
  enough, right? But But the point being that
• 14:00
  this other younger woman in the current telling has a supportive
• 14:04
  family but the and and that is a big buffer against her being her
• 14:09
  worst self with the children. There's just more people around
• 14:12
  watching her in a very pragmatic sense so that she's more
• 14:15
  accountable as I constantly reference.
• 14:18
  There was a study I read years ago where the only situation
• 14:22
  that makes monkeys, lab, monkeys, and captivity abuse.
• 14:25
  Their children is the current stay-at-home mom.
• 14:28
  Jim, which not current more, like, as I've talked about.
• 14:32
  Now, dads are a lot more involved, but at least a few
• 14:34
  years ago, and and way before that was 18 or shrimp or
• 14:40
  whatever. I don't remember.
• 14:41
  One monkey alone, with one baby or multiple babies.
• 14:44
  I forget but it was just one adult monkey in captivity and
• 14:48
  that is so different than the natural situation that's
• 14:52
  supposed to happen where there's a big extended family.
• 14:54
  So, when you completely get tapped out and you feel like you
• 14:57
  want to hurt your Baby because you're so Tapped Out.
• 15:00
  You give it to somebody else who's there and you've done this
• 15:04
  for other people. And it's this whole
• 15:05
  interconnected Network which is more what the young mother had.
• 15:09
  But not the old woman that is, I shouldn't say old woman.
• 15:13
  Jesus Christ, you just a few years older than me.
• 15:14
  But 48, I'm 41, just felt a lot of years guys.
• 15:19
  It's almost a decade, but anyhow, the point is that the
• 15:23
  older woman in the flashbacks did not have such a support
• 15:26
  system, not in her, own family of origin.
• 15:28
  Not with her husband. And this is supposed to be, do
• 15:32
  it. It's not even specifically due
• 15:33
  to the guy himself in this framing, it's due to more of the
• 15:37
  society. He was expected to go pursue his
• 15:39
  job. She was expected to put her as
• 15:42
  more on the back burner. This is not how it is now as
• 15:45
  much. But of course, there's still a
• 15:48
  lot of that when the man is the primary Breadwinner that and the
• 15:52
  woman does is not close to her family and can't afford help or
• 15:55
  doesn't want help, or whatever the case may be.
• 15:57
  So either way summary is it's really interesting movie.
• 16:00
  It's well done and it can help you.
• 16:03
  If you are a woman, the mom you can help you to empathize with
• 16:08
  your younger self to kind of, think pragmatically about ways
• 16:12
  you don't get into situations moving forward, where you feel
• 16:15
  tempted to hurt the kids emotionally or to withdraw from
• 16:19
  them because you're so tapped out.
• 16:21
  And it can also allow men who are watching this to understand
• 16:26
  more of the stay-at-home mom. Ends and how physically
• 16:30
  demanding and overwhelming it is, particularly for more
• 16:33
  sensitive women, who maybe aren't kid people, you know,
• 16:37
  like this woman wasn't, she was like a translator of languages,
• 16:40
  she was obviously in her graduate work.
• 16:42
  I mean, she just was a more intellectual person who had
• 16:45
  grown up in a dysfunctional family, and who is very
• 16:48
  sensitive to the constant demands of the kids, which was
• 16:51
  obviously these, the, the demands were Amplified when she
• 16:55
  was alone with the children for extended periods of time.
• 16:58
  Time so so yeah, it's super interesting.
• 17:02
  It's really good thing to talk about to watch and to talk about
• 17:06
  with your spouse and it can promote a lot of empathy, both
• 17:09
  for your own self as well as if you're a male watching it for
• 17:12
  the experience of your wife and anything that can, this is a big
• 17:16
  time by the way for empathic ruptures to happen is when there
• 17:21
  is a young kids and that's why I have my post called the young
• 17:24
  mother stage and wide to come home early from work, which is
• 17:27
  obviously a good Companion reading thing for, if you watch
• 17:31
  this movie. Alright guys, hopefully, that
• 17:34
  was interesting and useful. If I continue to watch or read
• 17:37
  anything of use, I usually try to tell you guys about it, but
• 17:42
  very few are as directly relevant to the themes that I
• 17:45
  deal with, and see in my clients, as this movie was.
• 17:47
  So, highly recommend, and I hope everybody has a great day.
• 17:50
  Please do subscribe, follow me on YouTube, and Tick-Tock and
• 17:53
  everywhere else that there is social media.
• 17:55
  I am there. Bye.