Latest / The Marketing Brief / Shaun and Brian Explore Resistance and Discuss his Book: Practice Everything (S2 E18)
Transcript
- Brian: Hello and welcome back to the Marketing Brief podcast. I am your host, Brian Aquan, and this is the podcast where we talk about anything and sometimes everything across the landscape of marketing. today is one of those days where we talk about everything because Shaun Tinney: Mm-hmm. Brian: we have the author of Practice Everything joining me. Welcome into the podcast, Sean Tenney. How are you, Sean? Shaun Tinney: Hey Brian, I'm great, man. How are you? Yeah. Brian: I'm doing well. It's always exciting to talk to a friend, someone that I've worked with, someone that has produced my albums. So we've Shaun Tinney: Yeah. Brian: got we've got a lot of threads that we that we connect through, don't we? Shaun Tinney: Heck yeah, so many. Brian: Well, I'm excited to have you on. Again, I showed the I showed the book, Practice Everything. Shaun Tinney: Yeah. Brian: I know you're a you do you do talks, you're you're a public speaker, you do coaching, and obviously you're an author. Shaun Tinney: Mm-hmm. Brian: how would you describe yourself? Who is Sean Tinney? Shaun Tinney: Yeah, mean you nailed it. Author, speaker, coach. my latest book is Practice Everything. I'm working on a new one that's a little bit more framework focused, called the Practice Gap. It's kind of helping people close the gap between what they know, some truth that they're maybe avoiding, and then who they become, which is of course found in practice. but yeah, that's the mo all my work is in helping people move through resistance to become the kind of person that they want to be. Brian: Amazing, amazing. I love it. maybe we start with practice, right? It's such a a common term that everybody knows. How do you view practice? Shaun Tinney: Well, the concept with practice everything is that we're always practicing everything all the time. So we might as well do it on purpose. So really it's just it's anything that we're putting our effort into that's changing us or shaping us in some way. but the the hidden thing there, right, is whether we're choosing it, whether it's a conscious practice. And so the goal here is to bring everything into the space of your conscious practice so that you know you get the benefits of there's no failure, there's only learning. looking for the insights and lessons and things and and just being more compassionate toward ourselves because, you know, we're all trying our best. We're all carrying different things with us. And so if we can move into the space of practice and start to see life as a pursuit of mastery, really mastery over ourselves and our ability to be present with those that we're with, doing what we're doing and and you know, sharing our gifts. Brian: Yeah. The idea of practice has always kind of been an arduous thing, or maybe that's how it's been presented to me. And there's a famous quote of Alan Iverson saying, I don't practice, right? I Shaun Tinney: Uh-huh. Brian: play in games. it are you looking to like kind of flip that in people's minds? Is is am I on the right track? Yeah. Shaun Tinney: to to sure, yeah. I mean, to take it from being something that feels like a lot of work, like like kind of a bummer or something that you have to do. and recognizing it's something that you're always doing. We're always putting our attention somewhere, and wherever our attention goes, that's where we are too. And so for me, the the goal is to be as present as possible in whatever I'm doing, being with whoever I'm with and really giving my best to whatever that is. And so that's the core practice for me is just presence, you know, just being able to be be here now, so to speak, and then apply my effort and energy in the direction of growth. Brian: And for you, like what does that take for you to to be present in the things that you do? Is there a lot of prep that goes into that? Shaun Tinney: yeah, it's interesting. So what what I'll I'll say the the path that's carved by thought is later blocked by it, right? Like at first we have to Brian: Okay. Shaun Tinney: really put a lot of thinking into something. And like like when you're learning guitar, for instance, you know, you have to really Brian: Mm-hmm. Shaun Tinney: focus on where are my fingers going, how am I playing this chord, until if you were to think about it to overthink it, you would it would get in your way. Eventually, it's just something that you can do. So it's like we're trying to load something from this high level of thinking into a just embodied presence, something that we can just do. So that's the work is like moving something from conscious to unconscious. Yeah. Brian: Yeah. And then it becomes ritual. yeah. Shaun Tinney: Yeah, automatic, right. And then and then there after at that point it's like, and even in any form of practice, really I'm just looking for what's the least that I can do to open the door to some new potential, right? So like, with guitar, for instance, there's always resistance. You you want to play guitar, but it's like, man, it's in the case, it's under the bed, I'll get it later. so if we can reduce that resistance, pull it out of the case, put it on a stand, like mine's right here in the room on a stand. Brian: There you go. Shaun Tinney: so and then like reduce the the barrier to start to the lowest possible point. So for me, I call that the minimum viable practice, which is one chord per day. So the guitar is already in my room, it's right there, I can grab it anytime. And all I have to do to hit my guitar practice for the day is play one chord. Now, obviously one chord is not going to make me better at guitar, but if I stick to that idea, it's like embarrassingly low, it's an embarrassingly low bar. It's so easy to do to play one chord. Some days I'll forget, I'll remember when I'm in bed, I'll I'll just run in here, grab the thing, play a chord and put it down. Most of the time I pick it up and I play, I end up playing part of a song, play for five minutes, ten minutes, an hour, and then I write a song and I find that one chord a day has produced albums worth of music. You know, it's like Brian: Yeah. Shaun Tinney: it it just kind of becomes the handle on the door to a new set of possibilities. Brian: Yeah. And that's you taught me that. And that's absolutely worked for me. Like I've played guitar every day for two years since we Shaun Tinney: Mm-hmm. Brian: started playing together when we were both at Goodder. Shaun Tinney: Yeah. Brian: so I I love it as a practice and I brought it to other things like being a podcast host, right? Like just Shaun Tinney: Uh-huh. Brian: do something every day. and I think one of things I've said on this podcast is that the only way to to get good at the thing is to do the thing, right? Shaun Tinney: Mm. Brian: It seems so simple, but it's like you just Shaun Tinney: Yeah. Right. Brian: need to do it and fumble through it. And if you can see progress, at least for me, like if I can see progress, which I'm seeing right now, it's so meta to talk about the podcast that we're on. But Shaun Tinney: huh. Yeah. Brian: when I watch back episodes or I see episodes or I get feedback, like I can see progress, which then just Shaun Tinney: Mm-hmm. Brian: gets me so excited to like continue progress. Shaun Tinney: Yeah, yeah, totally. We well, you said you're you're practicing it. And you should expect to suck at something that you don't practice, right? So Brian: Yeah. Shaun Tinney: like whenever we start something new, we're like, I don't want to do that. I'm not gonna be any good. It's like, yeah, you shouldn't be any good. You do not practice that thing. Brian: Yeah. Shaun Tinney: Yeah. and then the other thing you said is practice is progress. And so I'll just I'll show you the the four Brian: Nice. Shaun Tinney: pillars of practice here. everything is practice, practice is progress, progress is success, success is now. So what I'm trying to do there is Brian: Yeah. Shaun Tinney: Compress something that feels like a finish line that's really far out into the future. There's some version of you that is successful, and bring it all the way into the moment. You are successful when you are practicing. The practice is the progress that you need to make. Those you can only change a little bit. You can only change it now. And so those little incremental steps become the exponential gains, right? The little struggling with a chord becomes writing a song. It's just, it's all little steps on the journey. We just tend to favor. The the very last one. You know, we think the last step completes the journey, but the rest of them are the journey. Yeah. Brian: Yeah. And falling in love with that process or falling in love Shaun Tinney: Mm-hmm. Brian: with practice is really what will get you there. Cause I think a lot Shaun Tinney: Yeah. Brian: of people get hung up on the I'm not good enough yet, I'm not seeing progress, but sometimes you don't see it for a while. Shaun Tinney: Totally, totally right. Well, and that word yet is so helpful too, right? Brian: Mm. Shaun Tinney: It's like, yeah, I can't do that yet. But the but you're saying I will be able to do it eventually if I stick with this practice, if I stay in the process. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Brian: Yeah. That's amazing. you said you're working on a new book. So what kind of brings you to this? Like, is that bridging a gap from this book to the next book? Shaun Tinney: Yeah, it is. So this book, I mean, it's mostly like like artwork and quotes, right? Like it's it's a Brian: Yes. Shaun Tinney: pretty easy read, so to speak. But the the thing that I love about it is it's abstract. It's it allows people to take kind of what they want from from the messages that are in there. and then as I've started doing more coaching work with people, I'm like, yeah, this is cool, it's helpful, but it needs to be a practical framework. So Brian: Mm. Shaun Tinney: I I've designed something that is called the practice gap. It's like on the one hand you have some truth, something that you're aware of, something that you know you should be acting on. we're resisting it for some reason. Resistance comes up in many forms, right? We resist the truth, we resist taking action, and then we resist changing in some way. So those those are the three points in closing the practice gap. It's like what what is the truth that you need to act on? What is the least you can do? What's the smallest step of action you can take? And then what is the Alignment that needs to happen in your identity. So for me, that's a practice statement. So you would say, I'm practicing, you know, having honest conversations, or I'm practicing guitar or whatever it is, because our our egos, for better or worse, they're trying to protect us from change. And they want to keep us where we feel safe, even if it's an uncomfortable place, even if it's a toxic situation or whatever. we fear the unknown. So to reframe Moving through the unknown in a in a way that is helpful, friendly, compassionate, we can just say, Well, I'm practicing this, right? Because our identity is found in action. Writers write, runners run, painters paint. So if we can say, I'm practicing this, then we can start to become the kind of person who is doing those things. And then it becomes a natural part of our identity. Yeah. Brian: Yeah. That's so funny. When I refer to improv, I always refer to it as practicing too, because it's like this art form Shaun Tinney: Yeah. Brian: that's like, Yeah, you're never really finished with it and it Shaun Tinney: Sure. Brian: feels weird to say doing improv, but you're like, Yeah, practicing improv. Shaun Tinney: You are, and whatever you're doing is the thing you that you're making, right? When when you're improvising, your your show and your practice is the same thing. Or your performance, Brian: Mm-hmm. That's true. Shaun Tinney: I guess. The performance and the practice are one. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Brian: Yeah, they absolutely are. So th what w what will the next book kind of tackle? How what what what's the next step from this learning how to practice? Shaun Tinney: Yeah. So it's turning all of this into a practical framework that helps people to move through resistance and names what Brian: Gotcha. Shaun Tinney: are the forms of resistance at each of those steps and how do we move through them? How do we reframe what's holding us back in some way to become something that can help us move forward? Brian: Gotcha. So almost like redefining something that might be challenging to you in a way that you can then accept it or get started on. Okay. Shaun Tinney: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yep, yep. And and to move it move the finish line out of the future and into this very present moment. What is Brian: Yeah. Shaun Tinney: the smallest step I can take? What's the least I can do now? and even breaking down problems into much smaller things. Like there there may be some if there's some truth that we're struggling to accept, we may just need to look in like what's happening in me right now? Am I sad? Am I angry? You know, it's like f find out. Let's look and see. And then from there we can move through. things little by little. It's just there's there's so many ways that we get stuck and they're usually all in our minds. Most of them are imaginary, right? There's pain and there's suffering. Pain is a feeling, suffering is a story. We tell ourselves about pain. And those things together create a ton of resistance. So I'm looking to pull that apart, make it a little easier to sift through and help for me, I need to be way more compassionate toward myself. And so I want to just offer that to to me but also to others. Mm-hmm. Brian: Yeah. You've always been very open with with yourself. I really I really love that about you. Shaun Tinney: thank you. Brian: how I guess in terms of your process, like how do you work these things out? Like how do your ideas kind of come out? Shaun Tinney: Mm-hmm. well, f I think for better or worse, it's always in trying to help someone solve a problem. Like I I have a superpower of being able to come up with great analogies. It's just I can't do it unless I'm trying to help someone solve something. It's like it's it's useless to Brian: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Shaun Tinney: me until I need to use it. so in those moments I'm like, yeah, how can how can we make this simpler or how can we remove this roadblock or make it feel possible to make progress? And so once I'm in those kind of moments, that tends to stick with me. And then I I try to rework it back into the framework somehow. You know, my my mind is always trying to boil things down and make them simpler so that we can have, you know, the lever that moves the world. Brian: Absolutely. Well that's a I mean, that's great that you can you can use what communication you've had with others to kinda Shaun Tinney: Mm-hmm. Brian: inform how you want to move forward too. Yeah. Shaun Tinney: yeah, totally. I mean, all of this is for for me, really. Like I wrote this book because I need this book. Yeah. Brian: Yeah. Yeah. And and that's when we often find things were for us all along, right? Even though we were doing them for others. Shaun Tinney: Mm. yeah, yeah, totally. Well, you know, there's this quote, I think it's like W H Oden, he's like, We're definitely here to help others. What the others are here for, I have no idea. Yeah. Brian: That's funny. I like that. You mentioned your superpower, which is what I've been asking people in season two. maybe Shaun Tinney: Mm-hmm. Brian: expand upon that. What what what you know how why is that your superpower? Shaun Tinney: Think it's just it's so much easier for people to understand something by way of something else they already understand. And so, especially Brian: Yeah. Shaun Tinney: if I know the person well, you know, we can speak in terms of like, yeah, it this is like that. And it just helps people to make connections and realize how powerful and creative they already are. We just get so stuck, man, in so many different ways. And and it's like inside of our own heads, that person is brutal to to this one, but we're so kind Brian: Mm-hmm. Shaun Tinney: to our friends. So it's like, how can we bridge that gap between, you know, how generous we are with others to to becoming more generous with ourselves. So for me, that Brian: Mm-hmm. Shaun Tinney: being able to see someone and understand how they think and how they approach something and then communicate their own power back to them in terms that that work for them is I've just found it to be really helpful. Mm hmm. Yeah. Brian: Yeah, that's awesome. That's good. how how do people get the book? how and how do people get in touch with you if they're interested in your coaching? Shaun Tinney: sure, yeah. Well, all it's all through practice everything dot com. You can write me at hello at practice everything. Yep. and the book is also on Amazon, but if you order it from me, I'll sign it and the copy is like much more high quality than whatever they're gonna print off over there in the KDP print Brian: There you go. Shaun Tinney: shop. Brian: Yeah. It's like getting it from the merch tent at the show. Which I love to do. Shaun Tinney: Exactly, exactly. Mm-hmm. Brian: That's awesome. And then when when can we expect the the new book? I obviously don't put a timeline on you, but Shaun Tinney: yeah, for sure. I know, man. I'd probab I'd probably be shooting myself in the foot. I'll commit to twenty twenty-seven, but the all I'm Brian: There you go. Shaun Tinney: doing right now is one page a day. So whenever that Brian: That's great. Shaun Tinney: gets me there. Yeah. That's the thing, man, is like what whatever you're trying to do, if you can break it down into the smallest possible step and just keep taking that step every day. We only have this one day, right? So like how can Brian: Yeah. Shaun Tinney: you make something that is important to you a part of your life today? And I do that by doing the least I can. So when I wrote this book, It was literally I I bought this sketchbook. It's a watercolor sketchbook. And then every day I would just put one, you know, fill one spread. One page Brian: Mm. Shaun Tinney: per day was my goal. And eventually the sketchbook is full. Then I go one page a day into the computer. Eventually that's full. And it's like, okay, organizing, you know, putting one page of artwork per day. Just like keep keep doing the least you can until those little incremental steps become the the thing that you were hoping to make. Yeah. Brian: Amazing. Well, I I I love having you as a friend and and I'm happy you're in my Shaun Tinney: Likewise. Brian: in in my life. And this was awesome to have a conversation with you on the podcast. Shaun Tinney: Totally. Thanks for having me, man. Brian: Absolutely. And just so everyone knows, I knew Sean was wearing a white t-shirt because that's the only thing in Sean's closet. Shaun Tinney: This is k yeah, that's right. It's kinda my thing. I have other things, I just don't wear them for some reason. This is like this is the easy win. Brian: Yeah. No, in my mind your closet is just a thousand white t shirts. Yeah. Shaun Tinney: It's just like yeah, like Homer Simpson, just all white shirts and black pants. Yeah. Brian: Put on the uniform. Well, thanks so much for joining me for this brief conversation, Sean Tenney. I hope everybody everybody has enjoyed it as much as I have. And and thank you. Thank you for joining me. Shaun Tinney: Yeah. Thank you. Can't wait to help you record more songs here soon. Looking forward to it. Brian: We're gonna do it. And to all the listeners out there, stay curious.