Latest / Rooted & Real With Keenan / The Capacity Code: From Trauma and Burnout to Healing with Alison Renee Mattheisen
Transcript
- Keenan: Okay. Hey Allison. Thank you so Alison Renee Mattheisen: Amen. Keenan: much for being here. really excited you're here. You're coming all the way from Atlanta, Georgia. How did you, Allison, get into what you're doing today? How did you become who you are today? Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, great question. So mine is not a short story, mine is a long story, so let's s see how long this takes, but it's a quite compelling one full of pain and healing. So let's go. All Keenan: Okay. Okay. Cool. All right. Alison Renee Mattheisen: right. so I would say that my story starts with when I was a kid being a really sensitive kid. Like Keenan: Mm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I felt things deeply, you know, I still do now. I noticed things that other people don't. and I'm affected by people and environments and ways that I didn't really understand at the time, but I do now. and it was something that was super confusing for me. Keenan: Sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and some Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: of those things were like other people weren't as as affected as I was when sad Keenan: Mm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: or bad things happened. and so that kind of made me think like something's wrong with me kind of thing. Keenan: Hm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And I didn't have the language of what was happening to me at that time because I was just a kid, right? and Keenan: Yeah. For sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: then I was diagnosed with ADHD. Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: when I was in like middle school, struggling Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: with struggling with school academics, especially math, that's something that was really hard for me, focusing, you know, different things like that. So Keenan: Yeah. Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I didn't understand that my brain was different at the time, but Keenan: Damn. Alison Renee Mattheisen: it felt like something I was like missing something that like other people had. Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I didn't understand I didn't understand why I could sometimes do something really easily and then struggle with that exact same thing another day. Yeah. Keenan: Mm. Yeah. Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: even when I knew what I was supposed to do, it was still still hard. So things like concentrating, doing homework, even just simple things like chores and stuff like that. Keenan: Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of kids ca if I can jump in and ask a ask a question. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, yeah. Keenan: Like a lot of kids and even parents are hearing this and they're like, Man, that sounds a lot like my kid. Like, Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yep. Keenan: how was that news delivered to you from your parents or or whoever? And how would you say like how it was delivered and how are you cared for through that process? Alison Renee Mattheisen: I don't really recall exactly how it was delivered. It was I was struggling hard in school with concentration and attention and getting bad grades and stuff like that. And so I was put on a IEP to get help with that. Keenan: Okay. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and I was diagnosed somewhere within that time frame as well. And I also was put on medicine for for a while as well. Keenan: Okay. Yeah. So it sounds like it sounds like your parents and even the school were like, Okay, like we recognize this is going on. Like Okay. Okay, yeah, for sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: S sort of. Yeah. So that's the confusing part, right? That was that quite a while ago where people didn't really understand exactly how ADHD affected people's lives. And so I was told that I had ADHD. I remember that, but I was a kid and I didn't really understand what that meant. It was like I have to get my agenda signed by my parents, you know, when I get home from school, Keenan: Hm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: you know, and things like that. But it was never explained to me. Your brain is different. than other people, so you need to live a different way. Keenan: Mm. Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And so that that caused me a lot of a lot of issues throughout throughout my life, along with other things that I'm going to be talking about here. Keenan: For sure. Okay. So you know, you go through middle school with this, and then what happens after that? Alison Renee Mattheisen: so I don't really think my parents knew what to do with me. They'd get frustrated with me. They'd try to help me with homework. they Keenan: Okay. Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: even got me a tutor and things like that. So they tried to figure things out, but really probably what I needed was to be you know, maybe put in a different school or, you know, something something like that, maybe even homeschooled, where I kinda had more of that one on one. Especially with things like math. That that was a very difficult thing for me. other things Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I when I actually was able to focus I I was fine with, you know, things like you know, English and things like that. So Keenan: Okay. So it was more like you felt like if there's something you really liked or you were passionate about, you could focus Alison Renee Mattheisen: Mm-hmm. Keenan: on that. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. Yeah. I feel Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: like yeah, I could. And it was just it just came easier to me. It's just one of those things that was a strength versus math of being quite a weakness and I needed extra, extra help and things like that. Yeah. Keenan: Okay. Yeah. So how did this how did this affect you through like high school, college? Like where are you at with that in your Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. Keenan: story? Alison Renee Mattheisen: Great question. So it affected me in a lot of ways because a lot of things happened between what you're talking about middle school, high school time. Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I would say a couple years, probably say maybe five years or something like that, after after I got diagnosed. My dad got diagnosed with lung cancer stage four, which is very bad. And within Keenan: Hmm. my my goodness. Alison Renee Mattheisen: a year of getting diagnosed, he passed away, unfortunately. Keenan: my goodness. Alison Renee Mattheisen: So that certainly didn't help my my struggles, right? Keenan: Right, for sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: yeah, that was obviously a huge loss, super confusing. I had just turned 15 a few weeks before he passed away. Yeah. Keenan: my goodness. Yeah. So I mean, what was that like? What was that grief like? Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Well, I'll continue on my journey because there's there's more that comes along with this. So I was already Keenan: For sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: already struggling for sure, and not able to focus to start with, but then that got worse for obvious reason. I was a kid who was struggling, just lost a parent. My mom was, you know, losing her self essentially. She was kind of having nervous breakdown, is kind of what I've figured out as an adult. Keenan: Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and so she actually, I think within limit. Than a year than that, she got lonely and kind of confused and she remarried relatively Keenan: Hm. Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: soon afterwards, someone who she didn't really know. Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: maybe a couple months, something like that. Yeah. Keenan: wow. Alison Renee Mattheisen: At the time she didn't know what we would eventually come to understand about the person she married. So Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: he turned out to be a terrible human being. I was that. Keenan: my gosh. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And he also moved us away from a home that the home that I've always known. I lived there for the majority of my life. That's the only home that I remember. he moved us away to to Conyers, where he used where he lived, and home became unsafe. And I think that's important context for what happened next. when you're young, you don't necessarily have the ability to separate kind of what's going on at that time. I sort of knew because I was a teenager, but it was also I never felt unsafe in my home before that. Yes, it was chaotic and things like that, but it was never unsafe. Yeah. Keenan: Sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and so as anyone would, I became a struggling teenager. I ran away, I partied, I skipped school with friends, Keenan: Sure. Hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I got kicked out of school. and I'm not Keenan: Wow. Alison Renee Mattheisen: going to pretend that those were healthy choices, right? Keenan: Right. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: But I also look back at that teenager very differently now. Because it makes sense, right? For anybody Keenan: Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: who's hearing this right now, if your home isn't safe, then you're going to want to go somewhere else, even if it maybe isn't the best place. It makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Keenan: Yeah, absolutely. For sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And so Sometimes we look at a struggling teenager and immediately ask, what's wrong with this kid? Right? But now I think a much better question is, what is this kid responding to? Why are they running away? Why are they skipping school? I think these are the important questions that we need to ask. Because Keenan: Yeah, for sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: there's usually a root cause behind this, especially Keenan: Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: as intensely as I skipped school and didn't go home and things like that. Keenan: Yeah. So when when that was going on, like Alison Renee Mattheisen: Mm. Keenan: did you know it was wrong or was it like I don't care what I do, this is unsafe, I'm getting out of here? Like, did you know? Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I think it was probably both. Yeah. I think it there was a lot of not really understanding exactly what was going on, but knowing that I didn't want to be at that house. Yeah. Yeah. Keenan: Okay. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and so Basically what that led to was me being sent to a to what they call a therapeutic facility, therapeutic Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: residential facility. And it's called TTI, Troubled Teen Industry, if you've heard of that, Keenan. Keenan: Okay, T T I. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yep, for anyone who isn't familiar with that term, the TTI is basically an umbrella term for programs marketed to parents as treatment, rehabilitation, behavior modification, that kind of thing for struggling teenagers. Keenan: Okay. Gotcha. Alison Renee Mattheisen: 'Cause they just didn't know what to do with me, right? So that it's like, well, we're gonna we're gonna try this, right? Yeah. Keenan: Right, yeah, for sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: So I was sent to what they call a WASP program. Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: WASP stands for Worldwide Association of Specialty Programs. which was associated with that network that I was telling you about. Keenan: Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And my experience there was very different from what I think most people and parents would picture when they hear the word treatment facility. Keenan: Hmm. Interesting. Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yes. Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. So I want to take a little bit of time to talk about my experiences and the pain that it brought me, but the wisdom that it brought me as well. Later on, of course. So Keenan: Okay. Absolutely. Sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: it was very much military style, Keenan. there were no therapists there. Absolutely no therapists. Okay? Keenan: No therapist at the treatment? Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because it wasn't really Keenan: Okay. Interesting. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Keenan, it wasn't really a treatment facility. It was what I would call like a military school, with conditions. Yeah. So Keenan: Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Alison Renee Mattheisen: we had lots of weird rules. we weren't allowed to talk for roughly ninety five percent of the day. Yeah, yeah, that'll mess somebody up, right? Yeah. Keenan: my gosh. Wow. Yeah, Will. my gosh. It's like just dead silent. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, it was yeah, it was scary. Yeah. and we had what I now refer to as forced brainwashing seminars as well. Again, no therapist. Keenan: Right. Wow. Alison Renee Mattheisen: So there was lots of lots of confusion going on there, lots of people who were not licensed and certified to do the things that they were doing. and that really can mess up a kid who is already struggling, right? Yeah. Keenan: Right, for sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: we also had to wear uniforms yellow in the in the day and then We had well I guess in free time and then in the daytime school time, which is another interesting one, we had to wear schoolgirl outfits. Keenan: Interesting. Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yep. And we did not actually go to school. We were just given old books to use. So lots of people fell behind, especially the ones who stayed in there for years and years. Thank goodness I did not. Keenan: Right. Alison Renee Mattheisen: but I was still very much affected by by that place. And I did, yeah. Keenan: Yeah. So you mentioned a a brainwashing seminar. I think we have an idea of what that could be. Well but what did that look like here? Alison Renee Mattheisen: So, you know, there's a lot of gaps in my brain from these things that have happened, but what I do recall is that we were put into a room and we were given into a dark room, by the way, which is really weird, with like very little light, and we were given rolled up towels that had duct tape around them. And there was an X on the floor in front of us, and we were told to repeatedly take the towel and smash the floor and think about why we're so angry and why we're there and just just get that anger out onto the floor. Use the use the towel as a element to get that anger out. Yeah, and I remember being super confused. Again, lots of confusion. Keenan: Right. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I I knew I was mad about something, you know. Keenan: Sure, sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I didn't exactly know what that was. I was mad it was there. But I also was like, why are they forcing us to to do this right now? I don't I don't understand. It's not clicking for me, you know? So Keenan: Right. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: that certainly did not help my brain. I will say that. Yeah. Keenan: my gosh. For sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, and that was just that's just part of it. it felt very, very culty, I will say. The WASP programs are all over the United States and in other some other countries as well. So they Keenan: Well. Alison Renee Mattheisen: all kind of run the same way. Those military tactics, the weird seminars. they have what we call upper levels bullying lower levels, so the people people who have been there, the girls who have been there for a long time and earned points worked the way up the point system they could bully the the lower girls who didn't who were like newer or didn't want to work the program yeah so lots of lots of crap going on yeah yeah for sure Keenan: Wow. Jeez. Right, for sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and then some other things that I also remember is mattresses starting to flip when the lights went on in the morning if you did not get up Keenan: my gosh. Right. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And they were bunk beds, so I felt really bad for the people who are on the top bunk beds, right? That's kind of hard to get down. Yeah. Keenan: Right. That's that's a fall for sure. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, lots of lots of unsafe measures there, lots of I would call mental torture, essentially. And I Keenan: Yeah, for sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: also heard it didn't did not happen to me physically, but I did hear that, you know, some girls were physically tortured as well, especially when they didn't they didn't listen and do what they were supposed to. Yeah. Keenan: Yeah. Wow. So how long were you at this facility for in Alison Renee Mattheisen: I was at that facility for I'd say about s around six months, I think. Yeah. Keenan: Okay. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, so not as long as some people, but long enough to get a little bit more messed up than I already was, right? Yeah. Keenan: For sure. So you so you come out of this thing and then what's that like processing and transitioning out of that chaos into life? Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. Yeah. Ver very hard. My mom and brother came and got me and I don't recall getting on an airplane. I remember sitting in a red lobster with them. that same day before we got on the plane and just thinking I don't know who I am or what's going on. Keenan: Mm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and I kept thinking that I had to ask to talk too because that was ingrained in us because we weren't allowed to talk unless we had our little bit of time at the end of the day or if we like asked a question or something. That was really the only times. Yeah. Keenan: Right. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: It was very confusing. It messed me up pretty hard for at least a couple months, but really it messed me up for years and years and years. Keenan: Hm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. Which is understandable and Keenan: Wow. Sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and a lot of people are talking about that. Paris Hilton is one of the people who has been to that program as well and got PTSD. She sh has shared and she is w working on bills to, you know, protect those children as well. I believe she got one passed a couple a couple of years ago. So it's it's very much affects a lot of different, you know, types of people, rich, poor, in between, you know. Keenan: Absolutely. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And something else I wanna talk about too is that the amount of money that they make these parents pay in order to keep their kids there, people were getting second mortgages and stuff like that, like like twenty Keenan: my gosh. Alison Renee Mattheisen: thousand a month, like an insane amount of money. Like it was such a s it is such a scam. Such a scam. Yeah. I know. And it's not Keenan: Right. my gosh. Alison Renee Mattheisen: like your kids not getting better either. You know, your kids Keenan: Right. Alison Renee Mattheisen: getting worse. So but they didn't know that. They didn't know Keenan: Right. Right. Alison Renee Mattheisen: that. And something that I'd like to talk about too, if there's a parent listening that's really struggling with their their teenager right now or their kid, Keenan: Mm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: if you do decide to put your kid into one of these places, do your homework. I really suggest that you don't do it, but if you absolutely have to do your homework and check, physically check on your kids constantly. Keenan: Yeah. Right. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I I like that you said that. I was just about to ask you that. But no, I agree. Like do your homework, do your research. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, because there are some facilities that are helpful, but Keenan: Absolutely. Alison Renee Mattheisen: that is the WASP program is not one of them. Yeah. Yeah. Keenan: sure. Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: looking back now, I understand more about what a lack of safety and control can do to a person. Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: when you're young and you have well no control. I had no control over my environment. Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And voice, really. you become focused on what do I need to do to get through this straight up survival mode. Keenan: Yeah. Absolutely. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. and so survival was adaptation. So I I learned to adapt. I learned to pay attention when I needed to. I learned to figure out what people expected from me. I learned to tolerate things that I shouldn't have. Yeah. Keenan: Right. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Which is unfortunate. I learned to push through. Keenan: Yeah, Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yep. Keenan: for sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And those strategies that I learned in that school don't necessarily disappear just because the environment changes. Just because I left doesn't mean that the ideas in my mind and the way that I've been affected emotionally and physically just go away. Keenan: Right. No. Alison Renee Mattheisen: So they follow they followed me into adulthood for sure for many, many years. Keenan: Yeah. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And that's something that that I've come to understand in my healing Keenan: Mm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: as well. So a survival strategy isn't necessarily a bad strategy, right? It works well in the environment at the time that it needs to happen. Keenan: Mm-hmm, for sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: But when you continue to bring that with you after the fact, that's when lots of lots of negative things start happening in your life. Yeah. Keenan: sure. So when when you say survival strategies, is it Alison Renee Mattheisen: Mm-hmm. Keenan: like is this like engaging in like your fight or flight or trying to get away from somebody? Like like what does that mean? Alison Renee Mattheisen: It means I was constantly hypervigilant because I had to Keenan: Okay. Yep. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I had to know when the lights came on in the morning because there was no good morning, wake up, a horn, like nothing. It was just the lights go on. Keenan: Okay. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: So yeah. So you so then it teaches your brain to pay attention all of the time. And then constantly throughout my day, I had to remember don't talk, don't talk, don't talk, Allison. And then I had to remember don't run because I wanted to. There was nowhere to go. But some kids did run and it it didn't end well for them. so really just the entire six months became survival. every every part of my day was was planned for me, was picked for me. I couldn't Keenan: Mm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: even, you know, wear shoelaces. I couldn't even pick the clothes that I wore. I couldn't even call my parents, Keenan. Keenan: Wow. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, that's a big red flag, right? Yeah. Keenan: Jeez. Yeah, for sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. Keenan: Absolutely. my gosh. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. We could write our p we could write our parents I think maybe once a week, or something like that, but we couldn't say anything that sounded negative or they'd throw it away. Keenan: Wow. So they were going through the letters you were sending out. my goodness. Jeez. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy stuff, right? Yeah. So this is why Keenan: Right, for sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: this is why I'm sharing my story and will continue to share my story about these things because Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: this is super important. This could save lives. Lots of kids who were in Wasp have committed suicide. Keenan: Okay. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Because of just the the mental and physical torture for for some people. Especially people who have been in there for years. Yeah. Keenan: Yeah. Yeah, I can't imagine the ones that have been in there for even more than six months, like a year, eight months, but like there are kids that are in there for years just going through this. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yes. Years. Years and years. Yeah, like five years, like crazy. So the only way that you can get out is if your parents come and get you or if you graduate the program. Keenan: Okay. Wow. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And that can take years. Yeah. Keenan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And of course, you know that you can lose it's all about a point system and you can lose points, and you can gain points and things like that, but it can take it can take a lot, lot of time. Keenan: Yeah, for sure. So what was that transition like coming from this you know, this hellhole of something that was supposed to help you, but it actually turned out to be horrible? To almost this like like I imagine like an inmate transitioning into real life. Like what was like what was that Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yes, absolutely one hundred percent. Keenan: whole thing like? I mean Alison Renee Mattheisen: It th the trauma continues on here, Caden, right? So Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I was unsafe in in my home before, right? And I started running away. Then I got sent to the troubled teen industry. And then I got pulled out of the troubled teen industry after about six months. And then I was put back into the same situation that I was in before. However, I got a letter that says, hey, just letting you know, we moved to Montana. So when I got out, I had to get on a plane to go home. And nothing Keenan: my gosh. Alison Renee Mattheisen: nothing had changed. Keenan: my gosh. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: had changed. I was older and I was to a point where I I was around getting around the age of getting my license and stuff like that. So that did give me some freedom to be able to hang out with friends and you know do things like that in a way where you know I I don't get in in trouble. But the emotional abuse continued with me and my mom and his son as well and also physical abuse with my my mom and his son. Keenan: Hm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: So yeah still Keenan: Cheese. Alison Renee Mattheisen: still a bad situation. AI Avatar - Keenan Number 2: Feeling overwhelmed, anxious, disconnected, or just stuck. I'm Keenan Crowley, a registered mental health counselor intern, and I work with children, teens, adults, couples, and families across Florida. My approach is practical, down to earth, and focused on helping you understand what's going on, build real coping skills, and make meaningful changes in your everyday life. I offer in-person counseling in Orlando and Longwood, as well as virtual sessions throughout Florida. I'm currently accept accepting new clients. If you've been thinking about starting counseling, this may be a good time to take that first step. You can learn more about me and my approach through my Psychology Today profile or reach out to schedule a consultation. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. Keenan: Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, what's that like? You know, you said emotional abuse and physical abuse. I mean, obviously we can identify physical abuse. We can identify that. Emotional abuse, you know, I feel like that Alison Renee Mattheisen: It's trickier. Keenan: that can be a different different flavor, flavor for everybody. Some people receive it differently. So how would you say like How would you describe that to somebody, either trying to figure that out or hearing it for the first time? Alison Renee Mattheisen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I would say It can look like a lot of different things. But for me, it was I could never do anything right. I always parked in the wrong Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: spot. I always used the wrong laundry basket. If Keenan: Well. Alison Renee Mattheisen: there was a computer virus, it was my fault. You know, those kind of things where it was constantly Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: put on me that something was wrong with me and that I was bad, essentially. And Keenan: Mm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: so I started to develop that belief, right? As anybody would Keenan: Yep. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and situation and many Keenan: Absolutely. Alison Renee Mattheisen: many people who are in abusive situations do. Yeah. Keenan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you started to develop that belief. And even Alison Renee Mattheisen: Mm-hmm. Keenan: some people hearing that, you know, hearing this could hear what you just said and be like, wait, that happens to me. I think I'm like going through that. And so how did you A, how did you rec how did you get yourself out of that belief? And then B, what how did you, I mean, just get out of that situation? Alison Renee Mattheisen: I carried that belief with me for a long time, Keenan. Keenan: Okay. Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and I didn't really know where it came from for a very long time, but what it did was turn me into an overachiever, to a perfectionist. Get things Keenan: Hmm. Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: right so that you don't get in trouble. Didn't know that at the time. Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I just called it ambition and I do have ambition. However, it was ambition combined with perfectionism and that belief system that's super dangerous. Keenan: Hmm. Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and so that I carried that belief system with me for a very long time, until I until I burned out. Keenan: Hmm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Basically achievement gave me proof, proof to myself, proof to the world, C, I'm smart. C, I'm capable, right? Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And so it was survival mode. Again. It can survival mode can look like a lot of different things, as you know. Keenan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and that's what it turned into for me. I need to achieve to prove something about myself. Keenan: Yeah. For sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And the interesting thing is the world rewards over achievement. Keenan: That's true. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yes. Keenan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: You're so driven. You're so responsible. You can handle anything. So I didn't necessarily realize there's a problem. In fact, I thought it was a strength. Like I don't have to ask for anybody's help. I can do it all. You know? I'm a yeah. Keenan: Right, for sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, I can handle it. I can work. I can work lots of hours. I can I can be there for everyone all the time. That was a big one for me too. People pleaser. Keenan: Mm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yep, showing up for everybody all the time. So you're getting rewarded for the very thing that's draining you. That's what happened for me. Keenan: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: So what that actually looked like as an adult, I became really good at working hard, at pushing through, Keenan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: overextending myself, tolerating things I should not have in environments I should not have. Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: having no boundaries. Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: being the person who could handle things, I just kept going. Keenan: Right. And even in in that sense, people are like, my gosh, Allison is available all the time and can do it all. Like like I'm hearing everything you're saying and even the flip side, you know, people would see that as like a ball or girl boss, as they say. Yeah. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And in some situations, I don't think that that's a bad thing, but in my situation it was. And there needs to be boundaries for these things because it's not sustainable. It's just not sustainable. I found that out the hard way, right? and Keenan: Yes, for sure. Right. Mm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: looking back, I can see how much of that was connected to what I'd learned much earlier. Keenan: Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I had gotten really good at proving I could handle things. Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I hadn't learned how to, you know, ask whether I should have to. And that's where I really started understanding the difference between capability and capacity. Keenan: Hmm. Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: So you can be incredibly capable. And do all the things, and still not have the capacity to keep doing it over and over again. Keenan: Okay. Yeah. S so I guess what were you do were you doing like a particular job at the time or like a particular career? Or was it like family stuff? How did you how did how did all this come out? Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, I went through I went through a lot of different a lot of different jobs. the one I wouldn't say that it burned me out. I think a combination of all the things that have happened to me burned me out, but I think that being in high stress environments and already having a sensitive nervous system to begin with, and then carrying all these things every single day, my brain and body It was just like, that's it. Like I can't Keenan: Mm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I can't handle anymore. And even then I kept kept pushing, pushing through and I got to a point where I couldn't do anything besides going to work and coming home and laying down. Yeah. Yeah. But that went for years. Years. Keenan: Jeez. I mean, that's like yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. Keenan: Yeah. And that's like that's like textbook, like just working till you're exhausted looking. Like Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. Keenan: that's that looks like. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, that's what I that's what I was taught. That's what was programmed in me, you know. And so, in my parents were all my my mom loves to say thank I love her, but things that she likes to say is no matter what happens to you, you gotta you gotta keep going. Keenan: Mm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and so I agree with that to a point, but something that you have to learn is you have to stop and you have to rest and you have to reevaluate and then you can keep going. That's that's Keenan: Right. For sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: the piece that maybe that she was she was missing. Keenan: Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: So and she she has actually learned these things as well as she's seen me get better. Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: eventually I couldn't keep I couldn't just keep pushing anymore. Things that should have been manageable became really difficult. Keenan: Mm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I could know exactly what I needed to do and still struggle to do it. massive amounts of irritability, exhaustion, isolation, you know, those kind of and then also health issues as well. So Keenan: For sure. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I learned that I couldn't achieve my way out of it this time. That was a huge turning point for me because I started asking different questions. Keenan: Hmm. Okay. So I'm Alison Renee Mattheisen: So go ahead. Keenan: I'm curious to know, you know, you have this turning point. How did you know that this is like a problem? Like instead of of course you can lean, some people would even step in and be like, wow, saying you're so amazing at Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. Keenan: doing all this. But then how did you go, actually this kind of sucks? Like I need to turn this around. Like, how did you know it was time to turn it around? Or turn a different direction. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, great question. So during COVID is around when this happened and Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I was a recruiter for at least at least five years by then and that's a high metric KPI sales driven go Keenan: for sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: go go environment. So I got you know I got awards and I got bonuses and the things Keenan: Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: that continued to validate my behaviors. Yeah. Keenan: Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: so what happened was lots of people got laid off during COVID and I was one of those people because there just was no Keenan: Mm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: the work. I was a healthcare recruiter and the hospitals were like, no, we're putting we're freezing everything, no hiring. Keenan: Wow. Alison Renee Mattheisen: So I found myself without a job. And I didn't really know what to do with myself. And I had a hard time finding another job too, because lots of people were looking and things like that. Keenan: Mm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And so the stress of COVID in general, plus losing a job, and then really losing my identity, Keenan, because who I who am I without a job? Keenan: Yeah. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: So all of those things combined really created a perfect storm of serious mental and physical health issues. To the point where I couldn't I couldn't ignore it. I was having panic attacks for months, Keenan. Keenan: my gosh. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I didn't want to leave my house. Keenan: Hm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I had no energy. I didn't feel like a person. Keenan: Wow. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. Keenan: Yeah, so you almost had no choice but to like, okay, yep, I need to turn this around 'cause I am not doing well, basically. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. Exactly. So I started asking those questions. What's happening in my body? Why are these things happening to me? What's happening with my brain? What patterns have I learned that might not be serving me anymore? What am I constantly pushing through? And why? And Keenan: Hmm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: that really changed the direction of my healing. So what did I try and do about it? I attended therapy. I went to therapy. Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and I got on medicine and that that was helpful, right? It gave me some insights. it helped me work through important things. but I want to be honest about something. I was still burned out. Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: The thing is about therapy, it could be a wonderful, wonderful thing, and it certainly helped me. Okay. Keenan: Mm-hmm. For sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: But when you're only seeing a therapist twice a month, maybe once a week, how much Keenan: Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: can you really fit? Especially for somebody with a giant story like me who had never gone to therapy before, how much can you really fit into that one hour? Keenan: Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: So I understood more about myself, but I still didn't have my energy back and my And my humor and my light in these different things. I was starting to get better, but I needed something else. And honestly, I was desperate to get better, right? So I started asking myself completely different questions. and started really giving myself a chance to heal and figuring out. what caused these problems and how I could heal. And I couldn't really find anything in my research that was super helpful for me, unfortunately. Keenan: Yeah. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: So I did what I would say years and years of research around Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: the mind-body connection, the nervous system, nutrition, Keenan: Sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: these kinds of things. Asking myself, why am I so depleted? Why do I keep losing my energy? What Keenan: Hm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: does my nervous system need? You know, so these questions and this curiosity started coming up, which I believe I believe is a good thing. Keenan: Yeah. For sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and so I started doing a massive amount of research around those things. and I wasn't looking for another quick fix, I was trying to understand. Why am I doing all this work and still don't feel like myself? Keenan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it sounds like you were like you were acknowledging the boundary, like, hey, I am doing too much, but also like, okay, how do I not make this a regular thing? What's the deeper thing going on? And so you took it like a step further. It sounds like. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Sure. Yeah, for sure. So I did a lot of research, reading reading papers, following holistic practitioners, you know, different learning about nutrition and about foods that help you because I believe that foods are super important in your healing, especially when you're burnt out. In general, it's important, but especially when you're burnt out, because you're probably low on the you know different vitamins and minerals because when you're in high stress environments, you're constantly flying through those. Keenan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. For sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. So I started taking what I was learning and experimenting with it in my own life. I started paying much more attention to my body, which was super hard because I was kind of taught in that school to ignore it. Yeah. And Keenan: Right. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: and really in my home too, because, you know, of course I wanted to say things to to my mom's husband and, you know, stuff like that, but I I knew that I couldn't or she would get beat or something like that. So I I started incorporating what I'd call tiny movements, healing movements, even Keenan: Okay. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: things like walking, stretching, tai chi, any kind of movement to tell my body that I was safe because again therapy was helpful but I needed movement. Keenan: Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: needed to get that stress and trauma out of my body. So sometimes literally just moving when I was stuck instead of sitting there trying to think harder was helpful. And Keenan: Okay. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: then I started noticing what actually helped me. Keenan: Mm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: I also started paying more attention to to my basic nutrition. So not some perfect diet, not restriction, not even complicated, because I couldn't handle that. Just the basics to start with. Am I eating consistently? Am I getting enough protein? You know, those kinds of things. Yeah. Keenan: For sure, for sure. Yeah. So w when you say moving in like basic diet, it's it sounds like you're not saying like you went out and like ran a marathon or lifted a bunch of weights. Right. Yeah. And you're not Alison Renee Mattheisen: No. I couldn't. Yeah, no. No, no, no. Keenan: like on this super professional keto diet. It's just it's it's just the basics Alison Renee Mattheisen: No, no. Keenan: of moving. You know, you're walking around Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yes. Keenan: the office, you're walking around your house, you're not eating Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah. Keenan: junk or oily stuff. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, exactly. Which is Yeah. Yeah, which is easier said than done because I still ate some Keenan: It's just basic, not super complicated. Okay. For sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: junk food stuff because I was still exhausted and had to do the things that I had to do, but I tried mostly to eat to eat healthy stuff. And also something that I believe is important too is that If I was to just start like running or something like that, like jogging, that I'd probably put myself in bed. And so I started learning my capacity and starting to teach my body that it was safe to move again because my heart rate started going insanely fast when I started doing movement again. Because, you know, I had I had been you know been laying down, been sitting down a lot, like hadn't been really exercised, been too tired to. and I slowly taught my body to trust me again Keenan: Mm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: through those tiny movements. Yeah. Yeah. Keenan: Yeah. Wow. For sure. okay. And how long would you say this process of of doing these tiny movements, basic eating, how long would you say it kind of it kind of helped you find those results or find those like just kind of learning about your body, how long would you say that took? Alison Renee Mattheisen: The basic, just the basics of it, I would say a year. Keenan: Okay. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Just the basics, yeah, 'cause that doesn't even mean I stopped being burnt out, but I started getting more capacity back. And then I added in other things as well. And I created what I now call the capacity code, which is a five area method that I used to heal myself. Keenan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Over it took years, but yeah, even within doing the somatic and the nutrition a year. I mean, because Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: there was massive amounts of of trauma and stress in my body that I had to to continue to do those movements over and over and over again when I didn't even see any results. I was like I Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: have to I just have to keep doing it. I think that this is gonna work. Yeah I just had to have that faith. Right. because I'm a Keenan: Mm-hmm. For sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: year is a long time to wait for results, especially when you're already struggling. Yeah. Keenan: That is. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And so I healed myself with that method, and I still use that method today in order to r reduce the chance of me burning out as well. And then I started going back to school for my master of social work degree. And organically, Keenan: Okay? Awesome. Alison Renee Mattheisen: yeah, yeah. And organically I talked to a wonderful human being who is who was my internship supervisor, and we started talking about coaching, and Keenan: Okay. Alison Renee Mattheisen: he said I think that you you ha really have something here. I think that you should you should do coaching. And so I started doing that that this year and it's something that I'm super super passionate about and I think is is really important and I literally know what what people are going through. and it's Keenan: Hmm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: it's important for people to know that it's better to catch the early signs first and then get help. And what I offer is personalized support one-on-one. So I teach you the capacity code and how I got better and I walk with you through it. And I'm trauma informed both personally and professionally. And I don't fit people in boxes. If they if they don't need all five areas, then I'm not gonna stick them in there. I I meet people where they're at. I think that's super super important. Importance Keenan: For sure. So somebody Alison Renee Mattheisen: as well. Yeah. Keenan: so somebody hearing this, you know, is is hearing your story and just being like, my gosh, like sounds like me. Like, you know, what would you say to them that they what should there be in their next step or at least their first step in hearing about this? The burnout, the trauma, where you're at now. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's a case by case basis, but I think the most important step is to be ready for help, no matter what that looks like, because you Keenan: Hmm. Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: have to step into it. It's scary, it's uncomfortable, but if you're stuck in fear, then nothing's gonna change. Yeah. Keenan: Right. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. So a couple of questions I usually ask guests as we're wrapping up, Alison Renee Mattheisen: Sure. Keenan: that have been really, really good feedback on is so like president of the world comes to you and it's like Allison, like we gotta tell everybody something to kind of w just we have to tell them you have one minute, you have everyone in the world's attention for one minute. What do you think they need to hear? Alison Renee Mattheisen: I think that they should hear learn from my story. Get help Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: when you need it. Do not ignore your body's signs that something is wrong. Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: And The sooner that you do it, the better. No matter if that's therapy, coaching, both, something like that where you have some kind of some kind of support is super important, especially if you're you know, dealing with with lots of different trauma and stuff like that. It's best to to have somebody there in your corner as well to kind of help guide you. Yeah. Keenan: Mm, for sure. For sure. Yeah. And that and that even transitions into Mike, my next question is, you know, someone listening, and we talk a lot about faith and mental health here. Like someone listening is like thinking about coaching or getting getting a coach or getting a counselor or getting into therapy. And they're kind of on the fence about it. Like, what do you think they need to hear to get them off the fence? Alison Renee Mattheisen: Well, that's a tough question because if somebody's not ready, they're not ready. Keenan: That's true. Alison Renee Mattheisen: there were points where I wasn't ready. Even if somebody had walked in my house and been like, I'll help you now. I ha I had to help myself first. Keenan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Alison Renee Mattheisen: but I would say that look at my story and the massive amounts, let's be honest, of pain that I've gone through and Keenan: Yeah. Alison Renee Mattheisen: how I've been able to heal and find myself again and now I help people who went through a lot of the same things that I did. It's possible. You know, there is hope. Keenan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. So it's almost like it's like it's okay to be on the fence for now. Like if you're not ready to get off. But at some point, you know, you'll have to make a decision. for sure. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I always say sooner than later, but you can't force somebody to do something that they're not ready to do. But know that the longer that you wait, the longer the healing time is gonna be. Keenan: Yeah, for sure. For sure. So any good like books, podcasts, blogs you recommend people can kind of look up to do more research on what we've talked about today? Alison Renee Mattheisen: so I'm actually a content creator for my for burnout coaching in general. I share some of my stories, I share tips, you know, whether you become a client or not. You know, there's some things that are are free. You can go through and watch my videos. I'm also going to be talking on a panel for a women's burnout summit, and that link is pinned in my in my handle, which is Alison Renee Keenan: Okay. Awesome. How can people find you? Like we have a where your website, social media. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, so social media and then also they can they can email me at allisonrene coach at gmail dot com as well. I'm working on a website, it's just not not quite ready yet. Yeah. Keenan: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, cool. Well, thank you so much for coming on, sharing your story. I know burnout is such a is such a hot topic right now 'cause you know, we're all going through it for sure. Different capacities, different different views. so thank you so much for being here and sharing. Alison Renee Mattheisen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Keenan: Yeah.