Latest / Free & Well: Stop Overthinking, Feel Confident AF & Start Living Your Live Using Psychology, Faith & Nervous System Habits / 316 | how anxiety, perfectionism, people pleasing are all connected (and a nervous system based approach to heal) w/ grace secker

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316 | how anxiety, perfectionism, people pleasing are all connected (and a nervous system based approach to heal) w/ grace secker · Free & Well: Stop Overthinking, Feel Confident AF & Start Living Your Live Using Psychology, Faith & Nervous System Habits

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello and good morning friends so excited that you're here.
0:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm here with Grace Sucker and I'm so excited for our conversation.
0:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Stay welcome Grace.
0:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me really excited to be here.
0:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
0:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so let's go ahead and just let our listeners learn a little bit about you.
0:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's just start with your go-to coffee tea beverage lately.
0:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, um, I alternate between a, it's like a protein latte, kind of make my own in the morning slash matcha.
0:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I love either one kind of depends on how I'm feeling.
0:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Love it, love it.
0:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey friend, and welcome to the Brimwell podcast.
0:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you ready to feel more peace and more confidence?
0:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you ready to stop second-guessing and overthinking?
0:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can feel more outgoing, say yes, to the adventures of Prie yourself out there more?
0:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you are in the right place.
1:01
[SPEAKER_01]: My name is Davonea.
1:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a therapist, a faith-based yoga teacher, and a dog mom.
1:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember being right where you are.
1:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything changed for me when I started blending.
1:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Mental health.
1:12
[SPEAKER_01]: faith and the nervous system.
1:15
[SPEAKER_01]: In every episode, I'm going to share with you nuggets for my experiences and it's a health field and my own raw and perfect realized lessons to help you feel more calm, why are your brain and own who you are so that you can start being who God created you to be on a polygetic way.
1:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Grab your ass coffee.
1:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, amazing.
1:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And then tell us what it would be for you to go and now get of some kind that's related to what we're going to be talking today.
2:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the best things that I've heard along my journey is that
2:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You cannot come home to yourself if you continue to fight your own self, right?
2:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And it might sound really simple because it kind of is.
2:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, y'all do, but so that happens underneath the surface all the time every day.
2:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so much of us have this self-critical part that runs the show, whether we're consciously aware of it or not.
2:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've seen that throughout many threads and phases of my journey.
2:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So fighting myself has been something I've learned to release in many ways.
2:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So you cannot come home to yourself if you are fighting yourself so good.
2:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that okay amazing so what we're going to just we'll just kind of dive into it.
2:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me a little bit about so kind of what we're going to be exploring is like anxiety perfectionism people pleasing that connection there.
3:07
[SPEAKER_01]: wherever you feel your her is leading you of like why this feels important.
3:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Why this is something that you love talking about sharing about why this matters to so I mean my quote really fits along with this because.
3:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I've, I'm only 35 and I feel like I've, I'm that person that's lived in million lives.
3:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I was hearing a mentor speak on this.
3:33
[SPEAKER_00]: She was sharing an older story and talking about someone who's lived in a lot of lives.
3:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just felt that so deeply.
3:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I've just had so many different phases throughout my life and so many different learning journeys to the point where my partner now, I'll tell him about my past and my early 20s and he's like,
3:52
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, that's so interesting.
3:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I want to know more about her.
3:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't even know, like, who is that, right?
3:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And so anxiety, perfectionism, people pleasing has definitely been along my journey into every phase and it shows up differently in each phase.
4:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's important because not everyone connects with it.
4:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, when I first was gently nudged about perfectionism by a therapist in my early 20s,
4:18
[SPEAKER_00]: She was like, I think, kind of a perfectionist.
4:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't click for me.
4:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of put up a defense.
4:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, no, that's not really me.
4:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like a light bulb moment over my head.
4:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, okay.
4:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So my point being is that we don't always recognize these things about ourselves, and it looks differently from different places.
4:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love that so much.
4:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is so interesting how it can look so different in different seasons, right, but we can see the thread as we look back right like, oh, I see this theme, I see this thread that it looks different in manifest differently in different seasons, like, I mean, I didn't realize that I struggled with anxiety until I was in grad school, right, like.
5:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Ray early mid 20s and I had no idea.
5:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I just thought all of these things were really normal and especially the high achieving and perfectionism piece of like, oh, that's just normal, right.
5:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she realized, oh, oh, that's not very healthy or helpful.
5:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
5:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
5:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
5:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
5:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, go ahead.
5:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I love that so you said this feels so important to you because you've seen these threads throughout your life, right, in different seasons and you feel like you've lived so many different lives, which is amazing and really it I feel like we could just dive into that on its own, tell me for you when you're imagining talking to a younger woman who's moving through her 20s.
5:54
[SPEAKER_01]: What are some of the big things that come up on your heart when you think about this?
5:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the perfectionism that people please in the anxiety?
6:01
[SPEAKER_01]: What comes up for you first?
6:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Exploration is normal.
6:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's normal not to know it all or have it figured out.
6:10
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I would encourage you not to have it figured out.
6:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Not to know everything.
6:17
[SPEAKER_00]: It is cliche, what it's so true, try to work on, try to work on enjoying the journey instead of the destination, like it's such a thing, but it's just so freaking true and I think in early 20s you are an exploratory phase, right?
6:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I was similar in grad school in my early 20s and I had a whole slew of
6:45
[SPEAKER_00]: anxieties and manifestations of anxiety.
6:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought, well, then I can't be a therapist if I deal with all these things, right?
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: There was so it was so black and white.
6:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think one that definitely happens with anxiety to do think that happens a lot more in our younger or early 20s, mid 20s.
7:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And so living learning, to explore and live within that middle that gray can be incredibly
7:15
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
7:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
7:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
7:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that permissions love to you do not have to have it all together.
7:23
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to know.
7:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like this ridiculous pressure that we're supposed to have our entire life blend out and know every turn and know what's happening.
7:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and I think that's something that I hear a lot, and I definitely fall myself was the feeling of, I don't know, like I think I know what's happening next, but I don't know how it's actually going to unfold or what it's actually going to look nuts me now, and I'm in my mid 30s, right, that's still life.
7:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I think I have a general idea of a general direction, but you don't really know.
7:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, and it changes like I said, I feel like I've changed every few years and it's a new journey 100 times.
8:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
8:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
8:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
8:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me more about you said the physical manifestations of anxiety, perfectionism, people pleasing what does that look like for you?
8:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
8:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have a little bit different than I knew in high school.
8:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I was highly anxious.
8:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was highly anxious.
8:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I was a child, like, debilitatingly so.
8:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But in high school, I started getting panic attacks.
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that was like that was a huge thing I was dealing with.
8:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And then entering to college and then more into grad school, I had this idea that like, oh, anxiety and depression was behind me.
8:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good.
8:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't need to experience that anymore.
8:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially if I'm going to be a therapist, I can't.
8:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I don't know where I got that idea.
8:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I just got it.
8:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And, but my body, my mind was like, no, we're not done with that.
8:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And so for me, it manifested.
8:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a very physical being, and it manifested into chronic pain and just kind of headaches.
8:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Food reactions, hist mean intolerance, things like that.
9:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the work that I professionally do now is helping people unravel that.
9:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And what we know is that when the brain gets into a high fear and anxious state, it sends dangerous signals to the body and your body takes on that.
9:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, and grad school was when my body really took it on, I would go and down a whole rabbit hole of crime pain and some illness symptoms.
9:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Like was there awareness around that's possibly what was happening or did it take a long yeah it took a long so go while and
9:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we don't, I don't know about you, but we don't talk about this in grad school.
9:42
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
9:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was sitting there in class, like in so much pain trying to pay attention and trying to learn what I wanted to learn.
9:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, there was no connection at all.
9:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Until thankfully, very, very gratefully I was seeing a doctor at a naturopath.
9:58
[SPEAKER_00]: He was like, I think you need to go see this psychologist that I know.
10:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, sure, I'll try new therapist, but she specialized in what I do now.
10:08
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the key to my healing.
10:11
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
10:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we do not talk about that enough.
10:14
[SPEAKER_01]: This physical manifestations.
10:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember having, so I'm very, I feel my anxiety very physically as well.
10:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, so I feel it in my body.
10:24
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of digestive things will come up and all it's telling you, I'm like, oh, something.
10:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So like that almost will warn me more than how I feel it in my mind.
10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I'm like, oh, I feel it, right?
10:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm having stomach issues and having digestion
10:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember in college going through tests and tests and ultrasounds and all of the things that I'm drinking the disgusting liquids and I'm not eating.
10:47
[SPEAKER_01]: way all of the things to figure out what's happening in my body because I'm having so many digestive problems, everything came back clean, right?
10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, okay, and then I started to look at things I had and then I realized, I'm like, oh my gosh, but we don't talk about it, and a lot, yeah, a lot of people don't have that.
11:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
11:09
[SPEAKER_00]: That's powerful that you did because you're not many people do that.
11:12
[SPEAKER_00]: They just keep searching and searching and trying diets and trying this and trying that.
11:18
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, our gut is one of the most common places that our anxiety takes or takes on our anxiety.
11:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's called the gut brain access for a reason, right?
11:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's our second brain, if you will.
11:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it can be hard.
11:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I do this myself even though I've been doing this for years.
11:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes if I get some stuff like things, I'll think, oh, what was that?
11:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's like I have temporary amnesia.
11:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what, what did I eat?
11:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Or what was this?
11:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I'm like, oh, wait, I'm in it.
11:47
[SPEAKER_01]: No, oh, wait, wait.
11:48
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some stress going on.
11:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I just need to look underneath the surface at my emotions or something like that.
11:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So good.
11:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So good.
11:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, tell me a little bit more about in the world right now.
12:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And the culture that we live in, is there anything that you're seeing that you would want to kind of debunk or that you're like, I don't laugh at or we should clarify on that just anything that you're seeing.
12:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, optimizing your health.
12:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a million different directions I could go with this because first and foremost, just a little bit about me.
12:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean,
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[SPEAKER_00]: I've been focused on health and wellness most of my life, probably because of anxiety and pain and illness and things like that.
12:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have my proponent of do what helps you, like totally.
12:42
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not a one-size-fits-all with a caveat that if you're only treating yourself physically, you're probably not getting the release that you need.
12:59
[SPEAKER_00]: our brain or nervous system, our emotions have way more of an impact on our physical body than people talk about or understand.
13:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I say that with the understanding that, okay, there's a lot about optimizing health in terms of diet and strength training and cold punches and sonas and, you know, certain routines and God health and, like, so much, which on one hand, great, like, let's, let's help ourselves feel better and on the other,
13:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you go to some other countries that they have no awareness of this at all, they're living happy lives just being collectively living with each other and probably stronger mental and emotional health because of that.
13:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess what I'm saying is like a rounded approach is the best and optimizing especially if you're nervous system and if you're mental and emotional health, state, mental and emotional health are at a dysregulated level.
13:54
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of that is actually going to make it worse because you're going to stress more about your body and about what you're trying to do.
14:02
[SPEAKER_00]: about the food, about the protocol, about the routine.
14:05
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be actually more stressful on your body and not help you.
14:09
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're already at a high anxiety state, right, or high stressed out state.
14:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So the first thing to do is to help yourself build resiliency and safety and resourceing in your body and your mind.
14:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I'd say that.
14:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so instead of this approach of I'm just going to focus on the physical health piece and authorizing everything and having the perfect workout and the perfect nutrition and the supplements and the cold plunges and all the things right that physical health piece instead of just focusing on that tell me about this rounded approach that you feel is so much more helpful.
14:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, there's a couple different directions we could go, but in terms of working with so, I mean, obviously many people listening to this have higher anxiety.
14:58
[SPEAKER_00]: They did identify probably as high achieving, right?
15:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Working to understand that more.
15:05
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason why you've probably lived probably for quite some time with a high level of anxiety.
15:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's not normal.
15:19
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not just something we're all born with, right?
15:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes, you know, manifest in that way, generationally, genetically, but yeah, that is based off of environment, societal pressures, right?
15:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what you're expecting of yourself.
15:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So...
15:39
[SPEAKER_00]: First and foremost, understanding that the deeper root of anxiety is at the core, an unsettling of probably how you're living, either with yourself, how you're treating yourself, what kind of job are you in, what relationships are you in.
15:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like you might need to make this huge shift in your life like quit your job, or I don't know, in your relationship, and it doesn't.
15:59
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to mean that way.
16:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes people find that, but it doesn't.
16:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It's more of looking at how are you living that's inauthentic to yourself.
16:07
[SPEAKER_00]: and you might be like, well, what's authentic myself?
16:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea.
16:10
[SPEAKER_00]: That comes with exploration and learning about
16:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, what is your, what are your values?
16:19
[SPEAKER_00]: What are, what is your true self?
16:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And listening to things like like podcasts like this, right?
16:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Learning about it.
16:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So not only is it mentally, meaning how are you talking to yourself?
16:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, what are your remanations?
16:33
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you catastrophizing?
16:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But also very much on emotional level.
16:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say this last thing about it, that before I started doing this mind-body work for chronic pain and illness anxiety, I was still therapist, and I truly thought that I knew how to work with emotions.
16:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that, you know, I'm able to sit with clients and help them allow them to feel and provide that space, right?
17:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And do that for myself.
17:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I really didn't on a deeper level until I learned this work, until I learned that actually a lot of the repression is first of all, there are normal for humans because we're not allowed to feel some of the feelings that we might inherently feel as humans.
17:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I would highly recommend people understanding what that actually looks like.
17:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what is deeper emotional expression look like?
17:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And how can you allow yourself to feel something?
17:27
[SPEAKER_00]: You've never allowed yourself to feel.
17:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can go into more specifics because I know it's general, but that's yeah can we I would list when you're saying like this work right this work changed that for you and helped you reach that next level and how you're serving clients but then also for you like over some of the pieces of this work for you.
17:48
[SPEAKER_00]: So when it comes to the emotional expression, there's many, many ways that I've learned this, but I will mention her name is Nicole Sachs.
17:56
[SPEAKER_00]: If anyone has not heard of her, but she is, she's a therapist that does what I do and mind-body neuropostics symptom work.
18:06
[SPEAKER_00]: She coined this term, this emotional reservoir.
18:10
[SPEAKER_00]: We all have an emotional reservoir, right?
18:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's very normal for us to kind of push down emotions because again, we never learned how to do that probably, we never learned how to feel.
18:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Or when we felt maybe your anxiety was protecting you from being too big of a feeler.
18:26
[SPEAKER_00]: People said that you have too many feelings or you shouldn't feel that way.
18:30
[SPEAKER_00]: right, or when you cried, maybe someone said, it's okay, stop crying, you need to cry, right?
18:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Things like that, even these little messages, they build up over time.
18:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So then we refresh any emotion that comes up.
18:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's somewhat known.
18:44
[SPEAKER_00]: We know that we need to express more.
18:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But one of my examples, and similar to Nicole Sachs examples, of when she recognized that this deeper work meant actually allowing yourself to feel the ugly ones, like the really mean things you've never think you're allowed to say.
19:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Meaning, she was
19:04
[SPEAKER_00]: She was trying to, I think she had two young kids.
19:07
[SPEAKER_00]: She was early in her therapist career.
19:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And she was trying to get them in the car.
19:10
[SPEAKER_00]: She was just stressed out, right?
19:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And so in her feelings, she was like, I'm stressed out as a mom.
19:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm stressed out with building a therapy practice.
19:18
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a lot for me.
19:19
[SPEAKER_00]: This is chaotic, which makes sense, right?
19:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Makes sense for her to feel that.
19:23
[SPEAKER_00]: That wasn't the deeper emotion.
19:25
[SPEAKER_00]: The deeper emotion was, I think, hey, my kids.
19:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to be a therapist anymore.
19:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I want this all to go away.
19:33
[SPEAKER_00]: That is the deeper feeling that we don't allow ourselves to express.
19:36
[SPEAKER_00]: The caveat is that you don't have to make a decision from that.
19:39
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to act on it, right?
19:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of the time, those are primal emotions.
19:44
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't need to change our lives based on.
19:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of these are, look like anger and grief.
19:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Some sadness, but usually anger and grief are the deeper ones that we never allow ourselves to feel that are suppressed.
19:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So anger, grief and fear, so those are the three.
20:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, fear for me, fear and anger have been the biggest.
20:09
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about how sometimes anxiety is like symptom focused, right?
20:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, anxiety is a symptom.
20:14
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times that can be a symptom of sadness of fear of anger and especially for high-achieving women, for people who are more perfectionist.
20:23
[SPEAKER_00]: They strive for the best.
20:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I have not met one that doesn't have repressed anger.
20:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say that or fear.
20:34
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, allowing my nervous system and body to feel the fear of my younger child, as a kid, that went through different traumas, that was the most transformational thing I could do because then it released this valve of like, oh, that fear is not scary, we can feel it, I have the capacity within my body to feel that.
20:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So then, oh, my brain doesn't have to send me signals of anxiety or pain or illness.
20:57
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the deeper motion work.
20:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know I went on a long rant there, but yeah, no, that's beautiful.
21:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And I it's so interesting to notice.
21:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're saying allowing these differ emotions, which typically you see as anger, grief and fear.
21:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, so releasing those letting those come up, then reduces the anxiety because the anxiety will just start body in general and the nervous system, right, realizes oh, we're actually okay, like I don't need to protect you from these things all the time anymore exactly.
21:35
[SPEAKER_01]: That's so huge.
21:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And the piece that you said to about feeling those fears from your childhood, and then your nervous system realizing, like, oh, it's actually not that scary.
21:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We're okay.
21:47
[SPEAKER_00]: They exactly.
21:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Because so much of our nervous system is running off of the past.
21:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, like I said, I've been on this, I've been at Derby since I was like 15.
21:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I've talked about my trauma.
21:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I know a lot.
22:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot of my life.
22:03
[SPEAKER_00]: but it wasn't until I really understood that that I actually allowed myself to go there with support.
22:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, I couldn't foot, I'm just sitting on my couch and like do that myself.
22:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I have had wonderful mentors and support systems that helped me do that provide that space.
22:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when I can feel that and also co-regulate with someone in safety,
22:26
[SPEAKER_00]: My body allowed it to scary, but like I feel those things that I didn't allow myself to in a safe wise body that I have now.
22:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
22:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the piece that you've said to about.
22:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that we're going to make decisions from that space or with those emotions.
22:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love that example.
22:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You said her name was Nicole Sachs.
22:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, SACHS.
22:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
22:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect.
22:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, I think there's this fear, and I've heard this before, and I've totally felt this myself with like, if I let these emotions out or if I vocalize this wild, you know, wild and acceptable.
23:04
[SPEAKER_01]: God, very common.
23:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I hear that and feel that right.
23:08
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a bad emotion.
23:09
[SPEAKER_01]: If I acknowledge that, if I let this out,
23:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It means that everything is going to catch on fire and then I'm really decisions from that place and it's like, no, we can just let that out and acknowledge it and be honest about it with ourselves right and then we decide what to move forward with we don't have to act from that space.
23:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's, like honestly, that is the key because of course, if you feel something that makes you kind of act on blowing up your life in some way, you're not going to want to do it, you're going to have resistance, really strong resistance, but those primal deeper emotions, they don't always mean we need to do anything with them, they're just there to be felt.
23:51
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
23:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Something that I've been playing with in more recent years, I had a therapist who did I have asked work.
23:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And so just to start using the framing of parts right of like I have this part of me that's feeling this way.
24:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And that almost feels her mission giving as well because I'm saying like generally, this is how I feel about my life or my work or whatever it is, right?
24:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And in this current
24:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't whatever, whatever the the challenging thought is and I think that just gives so much grace there of like yeah of course you do of course you have moments where you don't want to do this or you don't want it yeah like she said I hate my kids I hate my job hate all of course you have a part that would feel away.
24:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean yes, that's okay.
24:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's the huge, that's parts work.
24:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I honestly see that that work as parts and I don't I don't think that work, but yes, the emotions are parts of us and it's hugely important.
24:54
[SPEAKER_00]: One of my mentors every time, every time I would start to share something, he'd always stop me like the part of you does.
25:01
[SPEAKER_00]: The part of you does, right?
25:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Like so I just would really rewire me even sharing it or how I think about how what I feel or what's happening or what
25:12
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, uh, part of you.
25:13
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
25:24
[SPEAKER_00]: from what's happening which could often create some shame because we feel like it's us, right?
25:31
[SPEAKER_00]: We're either messing up.
25:32
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not doing it right or correctly.
25:35
[SPEAKER_00]: We're failing at something if this is happening.
25:38
[SPEAKER_00]: But if it takes us, if there's a part of it, part of us that's experiencing that, it provides space.
25:46
[SPEAKER_00]: right, provides space from that part, which means that it's not fully our whole personality who we are.
25:52
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just a part.
25:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not our identity because a lot of times we think our identity or personality is this emotion, this thing, this experience.
26:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not, I can't be.
26:04
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not just one thing happening with you, that makes you
26:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and even with that, right?
26:10
[SPEAKER_01]: That's acknowledging that there's a lot of great.
26:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not just the, right?
26:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, I'm feeling this way or I'm feeling this way and then I have to do this or yeah, I love that.
26:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my hard work is then so huge.
26:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so grateful.
26:27
[SPEAKER_01]: My last therapist was very phenomenal at that.
26:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll even just picture when I have certain emotions coming up.
26:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll picture that part of me and I'm like, oh, wow, she's on my good one today.
26:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, she is very nice and they which is just so helpful to notice and I just right you're bringing her to the table and then I'm still here.
26:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
26:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, parts work has been huge, like such a part of my journey.
26:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a, it's a very big part of mind body work that I do help us separate from our own anxiety pain illness emotions.
27:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, tell me a little bit more about you mentioned earlier creating safety in your body.
27:25
[SPEAKER_01]: that that was a huge part of your journey as well and like what you support clients in is this idea of creating regulation, creating safety internally.
27:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me more about why that's so important.
27:38
[SPEAKER_00]: If we have gone through life with
27:44
[SPEAKER_00]: experiences that take us outside of our body, which happens all the time when we have a nervous system that says like, oh, we don't know how to experience that.
27:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're we're going to either dissociate or just regulate.
27:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And when we're not connected to ourselves, when we're not grounded, then our brain or nervous systems tries to grab on to something, some sort of sense of control that can be anxiety, that can be striving for something specific feeling the need for control.
28:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I part of my story is that I also dealt with an eating disorder and also then was been eating disorder therapist and I mean at first when you're going through recovery like that.
28:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Connecting to your body, like you've been pushing against your body for so long, so sometimes in the beginning, depending on where someone's at, it could truly just be like acknowledging that you have a body being neutral towards it.
28:37
[SPEAKER_00]: That can bring safety in and of itself.
28:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It can be, it's okay not to be okay sometimes, that can be a sense of safety and signaling.
28:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It's grown out a lot and I'll have clients be like, I mean, I am safe, right?
28:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm good in my life, you know, not in danger.
28:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it doesn't always mean external danger.
29:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Something's inherently dangerous in your life.
29:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But your brain and your nervous system are primal.
29:08
[SPEAKER_00]: They operate on primal safety non-safety terms, if you will.
29:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And over time, if you've had experiences that your nervous system says that's too dangerous.
29:19
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know how to deal with that.
29:21
[SPEAKER_00]: That could be anything from a big trauma.
29:22
[SPEAKER_00]: We all know our traumas to little things that build up over time.
29:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, not getting your needs met being dismissed.
29:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And your household, not being allowed to feel your emotions.
29:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And so over time, that creates this lack of safety in the body because the body keeps your brain and body keep having to go outside of itself because being inside is too much for what you're experiencing it's been too dangerous or not good enough for not accepted.
29:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So if there is this low level or high level of dysregulation, which means not enough safety in the body, you will experience high anxiety, your experience different types of depression and sometimes things like that.
30:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And healing happens at the rate of safety.
30:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I heard that quote actually recently.
30:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't happen at the rate of your awareness.
30:16
[SPEAKER_00]: You can learn all the things in the world.
30:17
[SPEAKER_00]: You can listen to every podcast ever.
30:21
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't very common in my world.
30:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I have clients come and be like, I read all the books.
30:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I listen to every single one of your podcasts.
30:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing's working.
30:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I am still, I'm still stuck.
30:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's because awareness is wonderful.
30:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Amazing, great, do it.
30:37
[SPEAKER_00]: But...
30:38
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're trying to heal faster than your body is really available to, it's not really going to work.
30:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, safety means feeling yourself a little bit more, just re-sourcing within your body.
30:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And that might mean feeling like, okay, for me, if I put my hands over my chest, there's a sense of warmth.
30:58
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have to be anything crazy safe, like specific or deep.
31:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It can be, I'm pretty spiritual, so it can be that.
31:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But on a very basic level, it could just be like, hey, I'm feeling warmth right now on my body.
31:11
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a sense of safety.
31:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, a lot of people start with like, it's okay to not be okay sometimes.
31:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay to not feel safe right now.
31:18
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just a sense of like, hey, I'm here, you're acknowledging your own self.
31:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, um, I could probably go into more, but yeah, how does that land so far that yeah, so help.
31:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So just becoming more in tune with your body, even in the smallest ways, like a breath putting your hands on your heart.
31:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Noticing how that feels and I love that you acknowledged.
31:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have absolutely felt this of like for me growing up sometimes if I was having an emotion, it wasn't there wasn't space for it, right, like if I was going to express it, I would probably get argued with or told that it was wrong or something like that.
32:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And so for me, I learned to just just hold it and just don't even say anything don't express it just push it down, right.
32:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And so learning, as I've gotten older, how to bring that out, but for me, that was unsafe.
32:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, like to feel the values and to communicate them.
32:23
[SPEAKER_01]: My nervous system didn't feel safe doing that, because of those experiences.
32:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And so then learning to just feel safe bringing them up within myself.
32:33
[SPEAKER_01]: First, like you've been talking about, and then of a certain that communicates with other people, but letting that start to feel safe takes time and practice, right?
32:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
32:44
[SPEAKER_00]: This is similarly what you said kind of reminds me of this debate sometimes I feel like that went around in the therapy community, which I don't know if it still is necessarily not as tuned in, but like don't bring up your trauma, it can retraumatize you kind of a thing.
33:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I think people I believe and know to be sure that we kind of get that wrong because if you bring it up and you have no resource thing or safety, yeah, maybe.
33:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But actually bringing it up and integrating it is the way through.
33:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And you do that with learning, like you just said, bringing some safety and resources into you.
33:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had a somatic therapist at one point in my 20s that taught me the very wonderful, and simple skill of, okay, you're bringing up and like I have two hands out in front of me.
33:34
[SPEAKER_00]: One hand is the hard emotion.
33:38
[SPEAKER_00]: or the trauma, whatever it is, right?
33:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I'm having some anger about something and it's really uncomfortable to feel that anger.
33:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It's in this hand, but also in this other hand, I have grace or compassion or safety, just not whatever that means to me.
33:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a resource, right?
33:55
[SPEAKER_00]: This work means bringing both up and allowing them, allowing this difficult one to feel okay with the resource and safety.
34:03
[SPEAKER_00]: That's essentially what we're talking about.
34:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Having a resource to have this hard thing come up and then let it integrate and allow your mind and body to know, oh wait, that's okay to be here.
34:14
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't need to push it down anymore.
34:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love that.
34:20
[SPEAKER_01]: ever reminds me of, you know, very similarly, one of the somatic therapists that I worked with.
34:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I would tell her like, I'm struggling with this.
34:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like things that continue to come up over and over again in life, right?
34:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, the healing is when you risk.
34:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the integration of, yeah, your big emotions are going to feel difficult or scary or expressing them is going to feel bigger or scary.
34:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's okay.
34:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not bad, but the healing is handling it differently, which when I'm hearing is being safety, like we're still safe, we're okay.
35:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And then responding in a different way that feels more authentic and genuine for you.
35:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's responding differently.
35:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's so good, so good.
35:14
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, tell me if you could imagine the sweet woman who's listening to this, who is struggling with a lot of high expectations for herself, very, very high achieving pushing all the goals, very ambitious.
35:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, I don't know where to start with all this.
35:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I love what you're saying, tell me where to start with getting more connected with just feeling healthier mentally, emotionally.
35:45
[SPEAKER_01]: What would you say to her?
35:47
[SPEAKER_00]: First, I would meet you where you are.
35:49
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have these goals and things that you want to achieve and you're pushing towards them, goals are great.
35:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Wonderful.
35:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not, it's okay to want things and to strive for them.
36:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But I would
36:01
[SPEAKER_00]: create space, quietness, some quiet time over, over time, right?
36:05
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not just like one session and you're gonna figure everything out.
36:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Be really honest about those goals, about those achievements that you want.
36:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, brutally honest with yourself.
36:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they truly aligned with what feels right for you or is it just something you're feel like you need to do right or like you just expect yourself to do because that's what you thought forever.
36:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's probably gonna be foggy at first.
36:36
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not gonna have some, I mean, maybe you will have some light bulb moment, right?
36:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But most of the time, it'll be like, well, yeah, I want this.
36:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Just keep questioning.
36:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want you to keep questioning because two things will happen.
36:48
[SPEAKER_00]: One, you'll recognize, wait, maybe I don't actually wanna do this thing.
36:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Or two, you realize, now I really want this.
36:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this feels great and true, and then you keep continuing to align to that.
36:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you keep making decisions that bring you towards that thing you really want.
37:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, where to start with getting, creating resource thing, right, and safety, is truly that pausing, that's slowing down in quiet time.
37:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, whether that's with yourself, with a therapist, with a coach, a mentor, whatever, like it is one of the most important things you can do.
37:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't change or understand anything if you're not aware first, and we get aware by questioning, sitting with things.
37:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say, kind of depends, but usually if you are someone like that, like, breath work is a great place to start.
37:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure I know you've talked about that.
37:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it provides the space and oxygen literally within our body.
37:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes if you're not a meditator and you're like, I don't know how to do that.
37:49
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't fit me very well.
37:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I would start with those questions that I mentioned and let the honesty be okay, like, if you realize, wait, I've been striving for this thing that I don't even know if I really want.
38:08
[SPEAKER_00]: that could bring up a little bit of guilt or shame, or feel like you're failing, and that's okay.
38:14
[SPEAKER_00]: That's totally okay, be very gracious and compassionate towards yourself though, super, super compassionate.
38:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, as I say that, that is 100% where I would start, actually, like compassion.
38:28
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like, oh, the amount of times I talk about compassion, every session, every podcast I do, because time and time again, you, as you're listening to this, me and myself and I am sure as you're nodding along, definitely, right?
38:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if did not have compassion for ourselves a lot of
38:52
[SPEAKER_00]: and practice it.
38:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and that can look like actually kind of what we said earlier.
38:57
[SPEAKER_00]: That can look like saying, well, I don't really know exactly what I want, but that's okay.
39:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Or I don't feel great right now if this is really hard to feel and that's okay.
39:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Like compassion doesn't have to be, sometimes people feel like compassion means then you're not going to actually strive for what you want, right?
39:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, well, then I'm just going to kind of be soft and like not actually do anything or reproductive.
39:21
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I had someone tell me once, like self-compassion is a radical act.
39:26
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a fierce act of taking care of yourself.
39:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And it actually means it opens up space for you to strive for the things and actually succeed in the things that you really want.
39:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So don't think of it as like, if I provide compassion, I'm going to kind of let go.
39:42
[SPEAKER_00]: No, totally no, I get it, because I just hear this all the time.
39:46
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not that case.
39:48
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the best healing medicine that you can probably give yourself right now as you're looking for this.
39:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone hundred percent agree.
39:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that if anything has done the most impactful one hundred percent and I love that you acknowledge that just kind of unhelpful thing that we've learned because I've absolutely heard that too, right of like, oh, maybe I'm going to get a little too soft or a little too lazy or right I'm not going to do the things that I say are important.
40:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Something that I love to share is.
40:23
[SPEAKER_01]: if someone's having a hard time accessing that compassion, just imagining like how would I treat a friend?
40:29
[SPEAKER_01]: What would I say to a friend, you know, if that's feeling hard and I love how you describe it, compassion can be so simple of literally just imagining a validating statement.
40:40
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I heard you're doing.
40:42
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just acknowledging this is hard.
40:44
[SPEAKER_01]: This is hard and that's okay.
40:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Those two phrases alone are huge.
40:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you said if someone wanted to get started right now getting very brutally honest about the goals that they have so like listing out the goals journaling out the goals and then genuinely asking are these me is this genuinely what I want.
41:09
[SPEAKER_01]: and give permission for it to feel foggy to not know and that's okay, right?
41:13
[SPEAKER_01]: That's totally okay, but getting honest about that and then building some compassion in there as well.
41:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
41:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So good.
41:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
41:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
41:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell our listeners where they can find you where they can coming out with you, because I know that too, after this conversation.
41:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I am on Instagram at
41:38
[SPEAKER_01]: He'll do it with that grace that's also my podcast name is healed with grace you can find me on there that's pretty much where everything is everything lives yeah yeah and that's actually how I found you your Instagram you posted this real and I remember literally it was you talking about avoiding you were either coming out of a free response or avoiding a free response and you were just like shaking dancing moving and I was like oh my gosh yes yes
42:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love it.
42:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so definitely head down.
42:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I will link that below so that they can find you and go follow you.
42:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for being here.
42:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, love.
42:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you enjoyed this episode and a quick reminder for you.
42:20
[SPEAKER_01]: This show is for educational purposes only.
42:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Information from this show is not a substitute for mental health or medical treatment.
42:28
[SPEAKER_00]: friend.
42:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you enjoyed this episode.
42:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Please share this with a friend who you know would enjoy this or feel free to head over to Instagram and send me a message letting you know what is standing out to you or they loved today's episode.
42:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I so appreciate you.
42:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad that you're here.
42:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you have a beautiful rest of your day.