Latest / 1 to 100 / E27: How Agencies are becoming Software with Bennett Spooner

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E27: How Agencies are becoming Software with Bennett Spooner · 1 to 100

0:00
How's it going, Bennett? Good man, how are you?
0:03
Good, good, good, good. Nice to meet you.
0:05
Nice to meet you as well, I've heard a lot about you.
0:09
But you know what he's done. All good things, Don't worry,
0:14
don't worry. Yeah, for context for Sharp,
0:17
we're working with Bennett on content and he's been building a
0:23
lot of things. And right around the corner, I
0:25
think you guys are looking at raising Google Apps, right?
0:30
Yep, Yep. Doing that and looking to get
0:33
into like actually we heard back from Google, they were, they
0:36
told us like we were trying to get into the AI futures fund
0:39
with the DeepMind, like access to DeepMind.
0:43
And they hit me back after I applied to it.
0:46
They were like, we're interested, like basically made
0:48
it to the second round, I guess. And then they told us I sent a
0:52
bunch of stuff about our business and we aren't, we
0:54
aren't a SAS. So I think that's probably why
0:57
they are like we didn't choose you till I fund you, but they
1:01
gave us a bunch of options to like get, you know, free Gemini
1:04
resources and stuff from them. So we'll see what happens with
1:09
it. I had no expectations going into
1:12
it because we're an agency and we build automations for people
1:15
and customize them toward their to their needs.
1:17
And I'm trying to change that because it's limited our
1:22
scalability to just do ECOM and assist with the ad side of that
1:27
as well as like customer service automation up to like 90%.
1:31
It's pretty insane what you can do nowadays and then kind of
1:34
productize that into it's almost SAS like product, but we're not
1:38
there yet in terms of the AI agents being able to connect API
1:42
keys by themselves and basically integrate the whole automation
1:46
into their business without a human, without our team to do it
1:50
for them. I can see Rishab's face right
1:53
now. He's concentrating.
1:54
He's locked in. He's like Bennett.
1:56
What do you do? He's dialed.
2:02
Jack, you know me so well. Now this is so funny.
2:06
Yeah. You know, some people are very
2:07
expressive, some people are not so much.
2:08
Like, I look at Zach and I'm like, I have no idea what Zach's
2:11
thinking about. He could be thinking about his
2:12
run later today. But you, it's like, yeah, I can
2:15
see a little bit of what you're thinking.
2:19
But yeah, what is it that you do?
2:21
Like what, in like a short form? Is it something between an
2:26
agency and SAS? Right?
2:28
Correct, correct. It's like it's a weird middle
2:30
ground. I feel like not too many
2:32
automation agencies have gotten to this point yet and it's
2:36
probably because they are OK with doing whatever comes across
2:40
their plate to build automations for him.
2:43
Now the reason we're here is because the last 12 months we've
2:48
been building automations for anyone who came into my pipeline
2:50
because the content started performing really well.
2:53
And then suddenly we had a bunch of opportunities for to build
2:56
automations for companies. But all of these were custom
2:59
projects, different auditing processes, different consulting,
3:03
different tool stacks, different niches, different industries.
3:06
And ultimately that just made it way harder for us to 1 delegate
3:10
work because it's a new process and we have to know how to do
3:12
it, to tell developers how to do it.
3:14
So that limited us from being able to grow.
3:17
So we're done with that and we're we're honing it in on
3:20
e-commerce. And when we came across the
3:23
foreplay APII was like this is insane.
3:26
There's a lot of stuff we can do with this and we've essentially
3:29
made it a part of our product and we're going to be pitching
3:33
this. We kind of just went live with
3:35
the offer in the last week. So we already have a, a couple
3:38
of clients that are using the 90% customer service automation
3:42
that has a mini rag in it. So it's like has a, a chat
3:47
interface. It'll respond to clients e-mail,
3:51
e-mail with like questions they have with FAQs that are in the
3:54
database. And then it all obviously raise
3:57
any, any major concerns to a human.
4:00
If the, if the customer's super angry, if it detects there's
4:03
some type of fraud going on, you know, this is their third
4:05
refund. It'll, it'll put that in a slack
4:08
channel and get someone on the team to work with it.
4:10
So that's what we have live now and I'm looking to integrate the
4:13
new creative ad specialist role with the four Play API into our
4:18
offer. So I'm going to be rolling that
4:20
out as soon as possible. Yeah, it's kind of where we're
4:23
at at the moment. It's that's sick, Jack and Zach,
4:27
is that what you guys wanted? Is this like the type of like
4:32
innovation that you were hoping for off of the API?
4:35
I mean, I've actually think that my success criteria for the API
4:40
was like very multi pronged. So like the whole idea with it
4:44
is that like we didn't have it it it like eliminated our like
4:48
target ICP, you know, like and kind of like open it up like
4:52
very broadly. And so one, it's been going like
4:56
very, very well. And it's also like a really
5:00
interesting thing where now our APII think is going to be 1 of
5:06
like the sort of thing where like features come into foreplay
5:10
via API before they come into like the foreplay product just
5:14
because like the speed in which you can do that.
5:15
And so in a nice way, it is one of these products where it's not
5:19
like completely disconnected. And it's like as the API gets
5:22
better, like core, core foreplay is going to be getting better as
5:25
well. And so I'm like really happy
5:28
about that. But I mean, I would say like
5:30
this use case is like, yes, this is going to serve our current
5:35
like client ICP really, really well.
5:37
But the stuff that I'm also very excited for is like data
5:39
partnerships, which we're working on like a few of them
5:41
right now that are like very large.
5:43
And so all of it is just like taking us like one step closer
5:47
to kind of like the larger vision, which is like every
5:52
single piece of advertising that exists in the world, could, you
5:56
know, be inside of foreplay from like connected TV to like
5:58
billboards and like everything. And so, yeah, I think this is
6:02
like a really great spot to have like a good monetization sort of
6:09
mechanism on the data that then allows us to justify going to
6:13
collect our data. So.
6:15
Bennett, do you think that companies like Zach's should
6:19
have AP is for companies like yours Like I guess where I'm
6:25
where my head goes is like this system of their companies like
6:31
Zach's where they like do all the connectivity they have all
6:35
of the primitives that are the right primitives and then
6:40
companies like yours do the here's how we configure
6:46
companies like this to serve you Mr. or Madam brand is do you do
6:50
you Is that like roughly how you think the future will look like?
6:53
It will look more like that, where it's like agents, then
6:58
like need to go to these effectively SAS tools that can
7:02
be called upon more easily. And then there's like a yeah,
7:06
there's like an agent layer, yeah.
7:08
How do you imagine this sort of evolving over time?
7:11
I see, I see. I heard APIs were actually not a
7:15
huge percentage of like Internet traffic in general in terms of
7:19
data. And I think APIs are super
7:22
important. I think like allowing something
7:25
like the four play API to exist creates a ton of possibilities
7:29
with, for one, automations you can you can use and product ties
7:34
and incorporate into people's businesses.
7:36
So that itself is like a sandbox of opportunities.
7:40
I also think web agents are going to get better.
7:43
Like I'm not many people are using them the way that I think
7:47
they will be used in the future. And I'm talking about like agent
7:50
mode on chat and then things like Manus where that don't
7:53
actually require APIs, but could still go on foreplay and do all
7:56
the same stuff. Like maybe it's not, it's not
7:59
where it's going to be. But I think that's probably
8:02
where a lot of the focus will be because, you know, the automatic
8:07
connection of APIs essentially operates the same way that a web
8:10
agent would work. So whether it's, you know, an
8:13
agent doing that for you behind the scenes or actually going on
8:16
foreplay and doing the work that you need done with a prompt,
8:20
that's kind of the same end result.
8:21
So whichever one it is place, it'll be interesting to see.
8:25
Do you do you think so? Like I would have thought that
8:29
the speed, the operating speed does not converge because like
8:35
ultimately, if you actually need to do like ACSS render and you
8:39
need to paginate and all these other things like you're you're
8:42
you're limited by technology at at some point at high scale,
8:48
right. If Zach hits the point at which
8:49
all of the ads are on foreplay, I don't think you want madness
8:54
going and page and eating through.
8:58
Right, definitely not the way it's at right now.
9:00
So it would have to get like we'll see what happens with,
9:03
with the web agent type of things.
9:05
I, I don't know which way it's going to go.
9:06
I really don't, but I do right now.
9:08
I leverage AP is way more than any of the other stuff.
9:10
So that's why I'm huge on on what's going on.
9:13
And I think like every company like yours should have an API
9:18
that the public can use because I can make videos about it.
9:21
Like there's so much more to it that I think you guys like.
9:26
There's so much more that could come out of it from what was
9:28
probably initially planned, like the unlimited creation of of
9:32
different workflows and creative roles or getting data from ads.
9:36
Like there's so much you can do with it.
9:38
So and then that gives me stuff to make content about, which is
9:42
huge for foreplay for us, for our clients.
9:47
Like I love it. And so right now I'm like all in
9:50
on the API game. But I don't want to forget about
9:52
obviously the web agent side of things because I do think
9:55
that'll get better. And eventually they'll be like
9:57
operating on your machine probably without you even
9:59
realizing it as well. So it'll be similar.
10:04
That's amazing. What's the what?
10:07
Sorry, what was the reason why you think this is a service and
10:10
not a SaaS company? My company just.
10:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it still requires humans
10:17
to onboard clients every time. So like, I think software as a
10:23
service as a core, like what I initially think of it is like
10:26
you buy a subscription and you kind of can use the tool to do
10:30
whatever you need, usually without the assistance of
10:34
another person setting it up for you.
10:35
Now, I understand that's a like the enterprise package of a lot
10:38
of SAS companies, but there's nothing that we can offer right
10:42
now like, like we could do it like a do it yourself type thing
10:46
and they would be able to get the automation and set it up
10:48
themselves. But most people don't know how
10:49
to do that, nor do they want to. And so like the e-commerce
10:53
region is a lot easier to convince to use things like
10:56
automation because their demographic is a lot younger.
10:59
And when we do have these sales calls, like they want, they want
11:04
in, they want, they want to try this AI stuff, they don't have
11:07
time to look into any of this. So that's why it's like
11:09
important for us to go in, implement the workflow.
11:12
You know, it's not like as seamless as I would like it to
11:15
be for either agents to handle like the, the actual onboarding
11:19
process and getting the workflow, you know, with all
11:22
their credentials connected and, and like their emails and their
11:25
Shopify, all that stuff. So that's what's not automatic
11:28
right now. It's interesting though, because
11:31
you, you were saying just a moment ago you you're able to
11:36
achieve 90% automation rate on customer support stuff, is that
11:39
right? OK.
11:40
So I don't think there are any tools, SAS tools as you're
11:45
describing it, that can achieve that level of automation because
11:50
of the fact that like by what happens with the SAS.
11:53
And I actually saw some, some good dialogue on this on Twitter
11:56
the other day as somebody who I, I know and respect to on some
12:01
brands was talking about how a SAS company had made a change
12:06
that he felt was ridiculous basically.
12:11
But the problem is when you're building for 100 people or 1000
12:15
people or 10,000 people at once, it's actually very hard to know
12:19
what the right thing to do is in each of these cases, because
12:22
you're trying to basically build for the mean.
12:25
And when you do that, you can't actually build the best possible
12:28
solutions. So it's interesting because I
12:30
know you're talking about like wanting to move towards SAS, but
12:33
the reality is I don't. And I actually, I'm curious what
12:36
everybody else thinks about this.
12:37
But from my perspective, I don't know that a pure SAS could ever
12:40
get you the same level of impact or or like the the the same
12:48
depth of ability to to solve some problems that you can get
12:51
by actually like having a more custom implementation of
12:54
something. Who was it that was talking
12:58
about averages and losing precision in averages?
13:03
I just want to pull up that tweet.
13:06
It wasn't. He wasn't talking about that
13:07
explicitly. Here.
13:08
Let me send it to you. It was so Sam Mendelssohn.
13:10
He was talking about how What was it?
13:14
Yeah, I'll just drop it in here. And I mean, I, I totally, to be
13:19
clear, I understand where he's coming from.
13:21
Like you want you're, you're hoping that your e-mail provider
13:26
in this context is like doing the research and making sure
13:28
that the changes they're making makes sense.
13:30
But I also know being on the other side of this, the reality
13:34
is like when we built reports for our merchants, there's,
13:37
there's at least there are three different ways that we seriously
13:41
considered of how to show reports that actually render
13:43
very different data because there is no like right way to do
13:48
this. And there is, if I talk to
13:50
merchants, most of them will fall into one of those three
13:54
different ways. But I can't get everybody to
13:56
agree on the right way of, of rendering this information
13:58
right. And so it's like it becomes very
14:00
challenging to actually solve these problems at scale.
14:04
And the reality is that somebody going and building their own
14:06
custom implementation of something is often going to give
14:11
them what they want in a way that a pure software offering
14:15
can't. Yeah.
14:17
Bennett, would you, what would you describe Salesforce as?
14:21
Salesforce, I would just say is ACRM with a bunch of
14:24
integrations, so. Sorry but is it a SAS or a
14:27
service? Probably more of a SAS.
14:38
What do you think? Do I, I, I, I, I, I think, I
14:46
think we're going to hear lots of different opinions on this
14:48
pod, which I think makes it somewhat interesting.
14:52
Zach, is it fair to say that you you love like product purity?
14:57
Is it fair to say that I feel like you give me.
15:00
Yeah. But I but I definitely like
15:02
acknowledge the fact of like other business models.
15:06
Totally. Yeah, I would just prefer to not
15:09
have. Built it.
15:10
People managing customers coming in for software purely because
15:16
as a software consumer, I fucking hate it.
15:21
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I was like, this is the
15:25
work. This is the most expensive thing
15:27
on our software line item now. And I fucking hate it.
15:31
Like and like that's also the truth is that these things are
15:34
also always the most expensive with I just like, I don't like
15:41
the idea that like your speed of implementation or direction is
15:49
like impacted by like the CS team of this tool.
15:55
Like so like I just don't, I don't like it as a consumer.
15:58
And so like, I can't imagine myself like building that.
16:02
This is the beauty of your API though, in my opinion.
16:04
Like it enables you to do both in theory.
16:08
I mean, I'm sure there's a lot. I mean no.
16:10
Like if at the end of the day, I've always liked integrations,
16:14
whenever I use the software and it didn't have a Zapier
16:17
integration, I was annoyed. If the Zapier integration was
16:21
crap, I was annoyed because there would always be this off
16:23
shot like use case where I was like, I just wanted this one
16:26
little thing, you know? And I didn't.
16:28
And I, I wasn't the kind of person that was.
16:31
Yeah. I think because I've built
16:31
software, I mean, it's, it's always funny seeing like what
16:35
requests you get from customers and like the idea that that
16:38
would be a whole feature in a software.
16:39
It's just like, OK, dude, like sure, but like, you know, like
16:44
I, I, I was like a consumer of software and like a lover of
16:46
software. I just like things to be tools
16:50
and it's and it's perfect form. But like, I wouldn't say like if
16:55
you guys have agents running that you can on board people to
16:57
in 24 hours like that software. The question is, is like
17:02
defining it as a SAS and then potentially asking for a SAS
17:05
multiple comes down to your like your billing model, your gross
17:12
profit margin and like potentially how much IP exists
17:19
in a thing that no one else can use, which like potentially
17:22
that's where you guys don't have a ton right now.
17:24
And where then it's potentially more of an agency, but like you
17:29
could say productized agency or like there's a bunch of other
17:33
buzzwords like what is it like AI, like powered something, you
17:40
know, like it's yeah, we're going to be like a new version
17:42
of of like businesses, right? Like.
17:44
Yeah, I like it. And it's starting like I think
17:48
we're one of the earlier people to get into it from like what's
17:53
now possible with agents. And I like the way I see things
17:57
is like in the next year or two, automation will be automated.
18:01
And so I know there's probably hundreds of people racing for
18:05
the completion of a project that would do this, a platform that
18:10
builds the back end and the front end lovable bolt.
18:12
Like they're not doing it the way that like I think it needs
18:15
to be done. And like anyone will be able to
18:18
create anything with a full back end and like like full complete
18:23
web app with the prompt, the prompt will automatically be
18:26
enhanced. It'll know what they want and
18:28
it'll give them exactly what they want.
18:30
Automation's built in whole layer of exactly what they need.
18:34
All the tools that they need to use like the whole stack will be
18:37
implemented or it'll do it them, it'll do it itself without the
18:40
need for other tools. And that's like going to change
18:44
our whole industry because right now we build automations for
18:46
companies that need help. And when that becomes automated,
18:50
it comes down to who's the best sales guy at the point at this
18:54
point who can consult the best and use the software and
18:58
multiple multiply their output 1000 times by reaching out to
19:02
all these businesses and using this and leveraging this new
19:05
tool that comes out to get all this done.
19:08
Because it'll essentially be like like a go high level white
19:10
label, but it'll do everything that they need, not just, you
19:14
know, some some crappy voice agents and you know, go high
19:18
level is great. It's great, but like there's
19:19
going to be something that kills it.
19:21
And I think, you know, we're in a winner take all world.
19:24
So I'm anticipating the release of this.
19:26
I've already started talking to all of our students about it,
19:28
about how like they needed to maybe stop thinking about the
19:32
technical side so much and, and going down that whole path of,
19:36
you know, learning the whole automation game.
19:38
They need to understand a few solutions that are practical and
19:41
actually make businesses money and understand how to talk about
19:44
them, understand concepts like retrieval, augmented generation
19:47
and API keys in general, like nothing too crazy voice agent
19:52
stuff. And then when this switch
19:54
happens in the next 6 to 12 months, they'll be ready to go
19:57
and hit the ground running and be some of the first people to
20:00
grab up as many clients and whatever niche they're targeting
20:03
and use this software that's that's going to come out.
20:06
And I'm super excited for that phase because that enables
20:09
anyone with a brain on their shoulders to, to go get active
20:13
because it's no longer you're no longer limited by anything
20:17
technically related. So.
20:20
It's just going to be a who's going to have the excuses and
20:22
who's going to go do it, and I'm ready.
20:23
I'm ready for that. I'm super excited.
20:28
That's pretty cool. Yeah, dude, I mean, I, I, I
20:33
think like for what little is worth, I, I don't think you
20:37
should worry too much about whether you're a service or a
20:39
SAS, you know, like, and you should just like keep selling
20:44
the service and then make the software better and better.
20:47
And then in the meantime, call yourself whatever you want to
20:51
call, whatever you want to call yourself.
20:53
Because like Palantir like was effectively like very similar to
21:01
what you are and in like how they deployed and things like
21:06
that. And then all of a sudden they
21:10
have SAS margins and so who cares?
21:14
So yeah, I, I, I think like that's like generally why I, I,
21:21
I, I just like don't know anymore.
21:25
I also think that like some of the fastest growing, there's
21:28
only two flavors of extremely fast growing companies right
21:30
now. 1 is like the pureplay, like sell to the pros humor,
21:37
like level whatever. And then the other one is like a
21:42
heavy implementation, Madam or Mr. Enterprise, sign up for like
21:48
whatever, 200 KA month, sorry, 200 KA year to a million a year
21:53
overtime. And those companies also grow
21:56
super fast, like heavy implementation and everything
22:00
else in between is like growing at like, you know, the Stone Age
22:08
rates of like SAS, you know, the good old triple, triple, double,
22:12
double, like no longer attractive rates in the venture
22:17
funded world or in the bootstrapped world.
22:20
It's like whatever, between 50 and 100% year on year, right?
22:25
Depend like the capital deployment sort of invokes the
22:29
growth rate. And yeah, I mean, there's a lot
22:34
to be learned from from from that, sort of like how the
22:39
market is playing out basically. Yeah.
22:42
Did you bring up Palantir on purpose?
22:46
Why? Because Bennett has this.
22:48
I'm not sure if you saw it. No dude, I didn't know who
22:52
Bennett was until like 10 minutes ago.
23:07
OK, it goes quite deep, but yeah, I thought maybe you were
23:10
referencing this. No dude, we're just simpatico
23:16
from like the past 20 minutes. Yeah, we're on the same page.
23:21
I think Zach, Zach's point on like the the way that you make
23:26
money is a really important point.
23:28
Like going back to, sorry, what Rishab said and what Zach said,
23:33
like if you get predictable revenue and really high revenue
23:36
retention, that matters more than like whether it's a
23:39
self-serve product or, you know, requires some sort of
23:43
implementation. So yeah.
23:49
Yeah, why are you trying to raise money, dude?
23:53
I wasn't. I was just, I wanted to see what
23:55
they said. I had no activations.
23:58
But they, they reached out, I was surprised they reached back
24:01
out to me. So when they did, I was just
24:02
kind of like, I'm going to do it.
24:04
Why? Why not say something?
24:06
But yeah, I had 0 expectations. But I did like kind of want to
24:11
see what the Google people thought about what we were
24:13
doing. And I also wanted access to like
24:16
the the latest and greatest Gemini stuff because getting
24:20
that stuff for free is obviously super helpful.
24:23
And having Google Cloud tokens to play around with, it's fun as
24:28
we do, we have all of our automation clients like locally
24:31
hosted on a on AVPS. So we're paying all that stuff.
24:36
And that'll ultimately be like what allows us to scale from an
24:40
infrastructure perspective. But yeah, I just wanted to see
24:42
what they said. Bennett, did I hear this right?
24:45
You, you reached out to Google, they reached out to you.
24:47
They said we're interested. And you went, oh, by the way,
24:49
guys, we're an agency. And they were like, we're less
24:51
interested. Kind of I told them exactly what
24:53
like what we're attempting to achieve because the tech will be
24:57
there one day like they we're an agency right now that has like
25:00
leverages AI. Eventually we won't need any
25:03
people to to get these people, these people's automation going.
25:07
Now that like that being said, the E com people may be able to
25:12
do it themselves. You know, they might also think
25:14
about that. So, but it's like we needed to
25:17
go grab as many clients as possible.
25:20
So when when that comes, they don't, they don't want to take
25:22
like if they, if they have to go figure it out and do themselves,
25:26
their business has to stop running.
25:27
And that that's not going to happen, you know, once the
25:30
automation's up, it's up. And if they need to like change
25:32
something like it's going to break their whole process.
25:36
And, but eventually everyone will be able to build exactly
25:38
what they need for automations. But nice.
25:42
Nice. I wouldn't be so confident in
25:44
the switching power of an e-commerce owner.
25:48
Yeah, I would say that they're the most willing people in the
25:51
entire world to do that. Interesting.
25:57
Why? What?
26:00
Was that? Why did you pick ECOM?
26:02
One of the like, the topics we discussed for the last couple
26:05
episodes has been the kind of on the lines of ECOM being a
26:09
sinking ship. Now I have kind of, yeah, I'm
26:13
not sure. I'm not sure.
26:14
I don't think it is, but maybe you know.
26:17
Yeah. If I think it's just going to
26:21
change, I think the way ECOM is done is going to change
26:25
significantly. But I don't know as much as you
26:27
guys know about ECOM in general probably.
26:30
But I do know like this AEO stuff is coming.
26:32
Shopify is integrating with chat.
26:35
That's going to change the way. I mean, all of our data is on
26:38
chat. They know every context about my
26:40
life. If I'm going to look up certain
26:42
things and it's going to suggest products, it has the context it
26:45
needs to recommend me anything. If your product is ranking well
26:49
on AI or generative engine, it'll show up.
26:53
And so that's going to be a huge new path of opportunity for
26:55
people selling products. Also the the Google Gemini
26:58
search showing up on that when people search it, I don't know
27:02
exactly what it is right now that ranks you perfectly.
27:05
So that's what I'm here to figure out and eventually create
27:07
an automation that will optimize your business for you.
27:09
I want that to be a part of our offer as well.
27:12
And so these are all things that are like brand new that like
27:15
people have no idea, like it's even coming and it's how big of
27:18
a change it's going to make. But I am very interested to hear
27:22
why you think ECOM is the sinking ship.
27:24
You know that's such a good point.
27:25
I feel like if ChatGPT has sent me a message and said dude you
27:28
need these red light glasses I would have bought some by now
27:31
but because it hasn't I haven't bought them yet.
27:33
Right, exactly. It's I actually, I think it's
27:37
interesting though, because I sometimes like one of the things
27:41
that's been happening to me lately because I use ChatGPT a
27:44
lot for like thinking through strategy things even and just
27:49
like a bunch of different stuff. And so you give it context and
27:53
then eventually that context becomes outdated.
27:56
And if you don't update the context, the results that you
28:00
get and the, the, the output ends up being not as good.
28:05
And so I do think that's an interesting thing.
28:06
Like I actually question more, the more I use it, the more I
28:10
question how useful it's going to be for things like shopping
28:14
recommendations, because it doesn't actually understand the,
28:18
the whole of my life, right? Like if it was fully integrated
28:21
into my phone and my laptop maybe.
28:24
But even then there's things that happen.
28:25
There's so much context in my life that exists outside of
28:28
those two places. I still don't know that it
28:30
actually gives me like, it's probably better than what Meta
28:34
has right now, right? But maybe not actually because
28:37
Meta is so deeply embedded into all these websites and, and all
28:40
this different stuff. So it's actually an interesting,
28:42
I, I actually am less bullish on that now than I was maybe 6
28:45
months ago. I don't, I don't, I think Meta
28:47
has significantly more data on who we are as human beings than
28:51
ChatGPT. And for the reason is, is that
28:53
like the way that Meta collects data is like passively through
28:57
our emotional triggers and like signals versus ChatGPT?
29:01
I go to it with like a problem and it's something I'm wanting
29:05
to solve and I'm something, I'm like, like the reason why meta
29:09
Scales can scale a business so well is because they're able to
29:13
put things in front of you that you didn't think that you needed
29:16
versus like, and like all of the context around that versus like
29:20
chats, like if chat recommended me a bunch of stuff right now,
29:23
it'd be like, it'd be probably a bunch of, I don't really want,
29:26
you know, like, like 100%, especially when talking about
29:31
like consumer stuff. Like you could probably be
29:33
really great at recommending me like maybe some tools and things
29:36
like that. But consumer stuff, like very,
29:38
very limited. Yeah.
29:41
Dude, that's what we need when we need some B to B ads.
29:45
Dude that's got hype for B to B ads.
29:47
Like you know what I mean? Like fuck B to C.
29:49
No, I'm just kidding. No, I'm with you.
29:53
Actually, I, I think it, I think chat could be better than like
29:56
LinkedIn for I mean, I think LinkedIn is like the place to go
29:59
for B2B ads and I think it kind of sucks.
30:02
I think ChatGPT would be way better.
30:06
Yeah, I feel like Google wins this race, right?
30:09
They're embedded in everyone's phones.
30:11
It's not just one app that you use recreationally.
30:13
It's everything. If you use an Android phone,
30:15
it's like literally everything that you do.
30:17
So I don't. Have any taste?
30:21
They they haven't. They haven't released they
30:23
haven't released a good product in many years.
30:27
And like all of their loved products were acquisitions.
30:29
So like the way that Google could potentially win this is to
30:33
buy products that were founded by people with taste because
30:36
like to make something work for consumer.
30:39
Like even if you compare Gemini user experience to like ChatGPT
30:43
user experience, it's like significantly worse, which is
30:46
just like mind blowing of like a concept.
30:48
But like, I don't see where Google makes the product that
30:52
like becomes the thing that isn't in everyone's lives.
30:59
Like, but it also might because, I mean, maybe if you're like an
31:02
Android user or something, then you have a completely different
31:05
experience. But like, like me, yeah.
31:08
Like, I mean, do you love like the Android experience?
31:12
Like, like, do you have like emotional connections to it?
31:15
No, I don't. It's utility like, but for me
31:18
it's always that's that is all about utility.
31:21
Like I don't actually care about my phone experience.
31:23
I just needed to do the basic things that I need.
31:26
Like I have no emotional connection to it.
31:29
I mean, we all know that's not true.
31:30
You see that green bubble you're fucking lighting up?
31:33
You're like, let's go green bubble.
31:36
He doesn't see the green. Do I do like having the thing
31:40
that annoys other people? Yes, that's fun.
31:44
Hearing intact. Can't remember the last time I
31:46
sent a text. I have both, and I prefer the
31:49
Pixel to the iPhone. The iPhone has a better camera,
31:52
but the Pixel's such a better phone.
31:55
Like in a ways like it does Shazam all the time.
31:58
You're sitting in a restaurant and a song comes on that you
32:00
like, and it's some obscure song.
32:02
It'll just tell you on the home screen of your phone.
32:03
You don't even have to touch it and you can tap a little button,
32:06
save it. It's incredible.
32:07
But like iPhones just feels a bit like old, like it doesn't
32:11
have those features, right? It has a really nice camera and
32:15
it feels good in your hand. I mean, yeah, I who are getting
32:24
distracted here, but like the most recent launch like I get I
32:28
still get so excited for like Apple launches and knowing that
32:31
I'll be like disappointed. Like Apple also hasn't really
32:37
launched a good product in like. A very long time.
32:41
So OK, Why Zach, I'm curious because I think you're you're
32:45
much more in tune with us. But I am like, what do you think
32:48
that is in both cases, both Google and Apple?
32:50
Because the CEO was the former head of operations.
32:55
Like do you know why Tim Cook got the CEO role?
32:59
This was his biggest win was when he joined Apple used to
33:04
have like a world class manufacturing to distribution
33:08
timeline, OK? It was like roughly 30 days.
33:11
So from the moment that an iPhone was, you know,
33:16
manufactured to the moment it was in a person's hand was 30
33:19
days. And that was like world class,
33:21
OK. When Tim Cook joined Apple, he
33:23
got that down to three days, which is like insane.
33:28
Like the idea that like a iPhone comes off.
33:30
So it's like this guy is an incredible operator, but the
33:35
idea that that same person would be able to properly direct like
33:38
new innovation in product is like it couldn't be more like
33:43
misaligned. And so like, I think in the
33:47
absence of like Steve Jobs, like I, I don't really see how Apple
33:51
can release. Yeah, I think our two new.
33:56
CEO. Like, yeah, I think there are
33:58
two types of people in this world, those who operate well in
34:01
the constrained possible and those who operate well in the
34:04
unconstrained possible. And like Tim Cook is a
34:07
constrained possible operator. It's like because you can't go
34:11
anything less than like 0, you know what I mean?
34:14
It's like it's at 30 days now the best I can do is 0.
34:18
How close can I get to 0? I can operate in the constrained
34:21
possible, whereas like what do we do, you know, that's like an
34:27
unconstrained possible and I don't like those two humans are
34:32
not the same. They don't they don't spend
34:34
their time the same way. They don't wake up the same way.
34:36
They don't think the same way. You can even see like in in the
34:40
way that keynotes have have evolved, right?
34:43
So like they went from keynotes that had issues and but like
34:48
also had like a a lot of allure and like love to them of just
34:51
like people demoing products on stage.
34:54
So now these. Are recordings.
34:55
Heavily like produced recordings where they're talking about
34:59
sustainability for fucking half of the time, but it's like the
35:02
iPhone is still just like a bigger top and it's like OK, a
35:05
nicer camera and it's like they could have done like amazing
35:10
things. They're the most cash in the
35:11
entire world, right? And like, but I don't think that
35:15
there's like any innovation in a company.
35:18
I mean, like the only thing that they've come out with like in
35:22
the last five years that is incredible is, is like the M
35:26
chips in like the MacBook Pros. Like getting away from Intel was
35:29
an incredible innovation and it like made that product like
35:32
insanely better. But we've seen like no
35:34
innovation in form factor. Like the biggest, like Swing was
35:40
the Vision Pro, which I bought and it was horrible.
35:44
Dude, you know what actually impresses the heck out of me?
35:47
I don't know if you guys, I mean, obviously everybody's seen
35:50
the display ray ban thing that Meta announced, but they
35:53
announced something else, which is the Oakley.
35:57
The Meta Oakley's with the mic and the camera on the nose
36:02
piece. Did you guys see this?
36:03
Yeah, they're incredible. You got them, dude.
36:06
The Oakley's this is this is like, I don't know how more
36:09
people are not talking about this, but in 40 mile an hour
36:13
wind, like literally while you're skiing, you can have a
36:17
conversation. The other person can't hear the
36:19
wind. That's crazy because of what
36:21
they've done with the mic and the camera, because it's in the
36:25
center instead of on the side. It's actually field of view
36:30
instead of sort of like a sort of weird field of view.
36:34
Dude, I'm going to buy these glasses even though they're
36:37
going to look crazy. Yeah, like for to wear basically
36:44
like, you know, Oakley ski glasses essentially around
36:48
because like, and and this is like, I think Zach is like
36:52
operating in the unconstrained world where he's just like, fuck
36:56
it, I want to be able to take calls while I'm skiing.
36:59
And it's like, dude, that's great, that's great.
37:03
Like I, I want more of that energy in my life.
37:06
Even though the demos like none of them worked in the keynote.
37:09
The demo. Was horrible and and.
37:12
This is another example there like they in that case, like
37:16
Facebook, which I would, I would say is like another company that
37:19
like has lost taste over time in like a lot of the hardware.
37:23
They've now outsourced the taste to brand.
37:26
So it's like doing it with Oakley and doing it with Ray Ban
37:29
means that the products are things that people actually
37:31
want. And you can have product
37:33
association and there's nothing cool about having meta glasses.
37:36
But if you just wear Ray Bans or just like the most recognized
37:39
glass in the entire world, it's like, oh, you've now like
37:42
shorten the gap of consideration for someone that maybe didn't
37:47
know if they wanted smart glasses.
37:48
Like no one wants smart glasses. They just want sunglasses.
37:52
Isn't that a smart idea though when when you talk about like a?
37:56
You know, I think it's great. For business, right, like
37:59
they're, they're probably never going to be as good at the
38:01
product development as a Ray Ban or Oakley.
38:05
No, I think, I think, I think it's great.
38:07
I mean, but Apple could have done that as well.
38:09
Like, but yeah, yeah, has like a, has like a brand allure to
38:15
it, you know, like they have like really good like design,
38:19
sort of like ethos and like history.
38:24
It's interesting because even that the thing you highlighted
38:26
as a a big improvement, the chips, I would say that falls
38:30
into the constrained world, right?
38:32
Like that's a, it's an improvement on something that
38:34
already exists. It's not actually ending
38:36
something new. Do you think like they haven't
38:41
made any good products because of like planned obsolescence or
38:43
do you think they're truly just like out of out of ideas?
38:48
I mean like the number one, I like objective of that company
38:52
now is like shareholder value. And so like, I do think that if
39:01
they had like a real reason to build something innovative that
39:05
they think could have the same level of penetration as iPhone
39:08
or Airpods, they would certainly build it.
39:12
And like, I mean, the other like weird thing about like iPhone is
39:17
that they have so much market share, right?
39:20
And it's like the people that are not buying iPhones are like
39:22
Jeremiah was like, I just want to piss people off or whatever
39:26
by like sending like the green bubble.
39:27
So it's like more market share. Could iPhone like get, you know,
39:32
like I still don't think there's a lot of people being like, Oh,
39:35
because like the I like the new iPhone isn't crazy innovative.
39:39
Now I'm going to Android. Like I don't like the maybe some
39:42
of that behavior just but I don't think a lot of it.
39:44
So it's like I, I think they're just like very comfortable, you
39:49
know? Been using it for years.
39:52
Why would you? Why would you just switch it up?
39:56
Well, if they dude, I think well I mean I think they lose it if
40:01
in the next year they don't get if the AI is still shitty and
40:07
everything else is amazing like. Metas AI is amazing, ChatGPT is
40:12
amazing Android like I think at some point people get fed up and
40:17
are like, this is like this is insane.
40:21
Like I cannot believe I'm using a phone that can't understand
40:24
what I'm saying. Like that that moment will
40:27
happen. Just like you know how like kids
40:29
like go to screens and like try to touch them and it's like if
40:31
you can't touch it, it's like this is insane.
40:35
Like why can't I touch the screen right?
40:37
Can they be model agnostic, just like how Meta are outsourcing
40:41
taste and design to these different brands like Oakley and
40:44
Ray Ban? Can Apple take the approach of,
40:47
well, we're just not going to do it.
40:48
I'm going to let everyone else do it.
40:50
They already are. That's what they're just an
40:51
Amazon Web Service wrapper. That's all their AI
40:54
infrastructure right now. They're so behind.
40:57
I'm not sure if they planned this or they're going to get
41:00
into the game late, but right now all of their stuff is
41:02
through Amazon and a lot of companies are just Amazon
41:05
wrappers if you really think about it.
41:06
But Apple doesn't have their own data centers and they need to do
41:09
that because that's where it's all moving.
41:12
We saw the Oracle deal done this week with NVIDIA and chat or
41:16
open AI. They're all just funneling cash
41:19
into each other and hyperinflating the AI market
41:22
already. And Apple's going to, Apple's
41:24
going to get involved at some point.
41:25
I just don't know when it's going to be, but it'll be
41:28
interesting. Bennu, what's your, what's,
41:33
what's your, your hope for your like let's talk about SAS again
41:37
for but what's your, what's your hope for where the business
41:41
goes? Yeah, I want I want this this
41:44
imaginary software that's coming out to come out and then that'll
41:48
really like ground me and I think we'll be able to run up
41:52
and grab as many E com clients as possible.
41:54
I don't think what kind. Of clients do you work with
41:56
today? Right.
41:57
We've just done a little bit of everything.
41:59
We were focusing home service, so like roofers, electricians,
42:02
flooring. We've done a bunch of custom
42:05
builds for just random stuff at this point, like Med clinic.
42:10
We've done voice agent systems for restaurants, like that kind
42:14
of stuff. But I'm just tired of it not
42:17
being uniform and I really want to be able to get some ads
42:20
running and just target one ICP and and just start building for
42:25
one group of people, Being able to delegate that to the devs.
42:29
But the growth of it and the transition into not like
42:34
relying, am I cutting out? No, you're good, man.
42:38
OK. Yeah, not relying on the dev
42:40
team is where like I want to see it go because at that point I
42:43
will just be able to run, do sales calls, have my sales guys
42:47
close and then fulfill fulfillment's already there with
42:51
the agents and they just fill in the information they need to and
42:55
that is just way easier for them.
42:58
What's the? What's the app right now that
43:01
doesn't let you do that like that?
43:03
You're saying that there's this new software like eventually
43:06
we're going to get to the point where all that can be basically
43:09
agent building can be automated, but here's like what the gap is
43:13
now and like what is there a you seem very confident that will
43:17
happen, but is there a chance like what would have to be true
43:20
for that to not happen? I think would be another.
43:22
For that to not happen, I think agents would have to stop right
43:25
where they are right now. All, all like, lol development,
43:30
all any agentic type of development, we need to stop and
43:34
we make 0 progress from where you are right now.
43:36
The way I see it, there's like, we're still in fetus mode.
43:39
Like these things haven't even been born yet to what they're
43:41
going to be able to do. I mean, we're looking five years
43:44
on the road. There's going to be AI agents
43:45
and robots in your house. It's, it's just the same, it's
43:48
going to be the same tech. And they'll be, they're already
43:51
starting to develop all of this stuff.
43:52
And so I already know where it's going to go.
43:54
I know what they're going to be capable of.
43:56
And it's just, I'm laughing at it right now because I'm trying
43:58
to work with the infrastructure that we have available with like
44:01
NAN. And these aren't even real
44:03
agents. They're not truly agentic yet
44:06
and like actually able to use tools autonomously.
44:08
And they just come to me and ask me what I need them to do.
44:11
But that's not happening yet. And that will happen eventually.
44:14
And I'll be able to treat them like actual employees.
44:16
And so when that happens, like if that were to not happen, we'd
44:22
have to stop right now. More developments.
44:24
True. Do you then just not have a
44:26
business? I think it'll it'll go on for
44:30
some time and before the actual damage is done, we're going to
44:33
have a threshold of like people still hating it and not wanting
44:36
to incorporate it. And it's going to be it's going
44:38
to it's going to be like a fire like like it's not.
44:41
It can't spread to the whole world at once.
44:43
Like people are. People are still going to want
44:44
to buy it from people. Business going to run for a
44:46
little while, but then it's going to get really weird.
44:48
That's why I think the twenty 30s are going to be super
44:50
interesting. And I, I'm not like, I'm not a
44:54
doom and gloom type of person, but I, I, I agree with what Zach
44:57
saying. Like there will be a point where
45:00
I think money becomes like kind of irrelevant because everyone
45:03
has the machines they need doing what they need for the most
45:06
part. Like we're going to have
45:08
autonomous beings in our, in our houses for the most part.
45:10
If you don't have them, then you just hate it.
45:12
And there's going to be a large amount of people who hate this
45:14
stuff and try to preserve, you know, the old way of life.
45:18
And it's going to be a continuous battle.
45:19
So that'll be very interesting to see play out.
45:21
So I'm like, I'm like, I know what's coming.
45:24
I don't think a lot of people know what's coming.
45:26
And so I'm just like, I'm going to start riding leverage and
45:30
like using more like fear to make make people realize like
45:34
this is around the corner. And people like like the
45:37
thoughts like Zach's having like your business just wouldn't
45:39
exist because everyone's going to be able to do everything they
45:41
need to do. But then no business would
45:43
exist. You know what I mean?
45:44
Like it'll be very. It'll be.
45:46
Well, that's what I'm saying I did.
45:47
That's why I'm saying it. I don't think like there's like
45:49
certain like laws to like the world in which like like maybe
45:54
they can be challenged, but like usually aren't broken, right?
45:57
So like in the same way that you were like talking about like
46:01
Apple using like plan OPS lessons and stuff like, Like
46:03
there is like a level of like in a way like why are you building
46:06
this business if you think that there's going to be like a
46:08
software that can like fulfill it for someone without engaging
46:12
with the developer? Because these people still
46:15
aren't. I could still reach these people
46:17
and do it for them and use the software to do it.
46:20
But you're saying like the software just does it?
46:23
Yeah, it'll do it. Right.
46:24
But like software not just acquire the customers directly.
46:29
Like why would that software just not require the customers
46:31
directly if it doesn't require any set up?
46:33
Because I'm going to use that software and white label it at a
46:37
massive scale essentially. But like what I'm saying is
46:40
like, like, why would you be able to get to that customer
46:44
before like the, let's call it like the parent company that was
46:48
going to have like all of the funding and all of the brand
46:51
recognition? Like, yeah, I don't, I don't
46:54
really understand like the reason why like HubSpot
46:57
implementation expect like specialists like exist is
47:00
because like HubSpot needs to be implemented.
47:02
But if what you're saying is that there's going to be no
47:04
implementation and it just does it, then like why?
47:08
Why? Because a lot of people are
47:10
already claiming to do that. We got base 44, we got bold, we
47:12
got lovable. They're all clones of each other
47:14
and they don't truly do that. But when one does truly do that,
47:18
there's still going to be a lot of skepticism.
47:19
I still think people are not like super eager about any type
47:24
of change in their business. And so it's going to take
47:26
convincing from people to actually use this kind of stuff,
47:28
regardless of how easy it is and how good the marketing it is.
47:31
It's it's still like people are very stuck in their ways.
47:34
I see people like my dad, still, the majority of business owners,
47:37
people over 40, they don't, they don't want to get involved with
47:39
this stuff. They don't care.
47:41
My dad's still using manual spreadsheets.
47:43
Like right now I'm talking about like the whole, like the whole
47:46
market as a whole. And I just, I know it's going to
47:49
take where we, we're going to be called agent operators or AI
47:53
transition partners. Either term is like is what I
47:56
would call it. And they're, we're going to
47:59
leverage this software and be the voice, the human that
48:02
convinces you to use the software like this.
48:04
And there's going to be a lot of ways to profit doing that
48:07
because it's not going to be an overnight change like it might
48:10
sound like it's going to be because it's the software just
48:12
truly amazing. Like there's a lot of truly
48:14
amazing softwares out there. A lot of people aren't using
48:16
them still. So I like the Luddite angle.
48:20
I think it's interesting. I think there's.
48:21
Another type of person who won't adopt as quickly as maybe they
48:25
should. But like, you know, if you're
48:26
the only person selling water in a desert, you can command a
48:29
pretty high price. Competitors come in and you're
48:33
the marginal price is going to drop, right?
48:35
There are alternatives available, but still people
48:40
will. You know, not drink.
48:41
Water and they'll, I don't know, they'll drink tap water that
48:44
they know is worse. And then there's a market for
48:46
better water, right? Or information, right?
48:49
There's we're super abundant in information, right?
48:52
Information is basically free. And the mechanisms for getting
48:55
that information to you have revolutionized so much, right?
48:58
We have Wikipedia, we have Google, but now we have, you
49:00
know, LLMS that get that information to you in a
49:02
consumable format, right? The tailor, the way the
49:05
information is presented to you at lightning speed in a way that
49:08
is better for you to consume. And even though that exists,
49:11
there are still people who can't do very basic things because
49:14
they're over consuming content that isn't adaptive, right?
49:17
That super, super abundance is right in front of them, but
49:21
they're not using it right. I do think there's always going
49:23
to be opportunities. On the margin, like even better
49:26
what you're saying. And I don't think you disagree
49:28
with us, by the way, with what you're saying.
49:29
But even if what you're saying is true, there's always going to
49:32
be some opportunity and I even think about like the way that I
49:35
engage with an LLM like the first time you.
49:39
Experience. Something like ChatGPT, it feels
49:42
incredible. Like it feels like it's so, so
49:47
unlike anything you've experienced before.
49:50
And then you use it a little bit and it gets to the point of like
49:54
you see, you see all the annoying things.
49:55
You see the things that you don't like that you start to
49:59
imagine a world in which it could be better and then a new
50:01
model comes out and it's the same sort of thing.
50:03
You're like, oh, wow, this is incredible.
50:04
And then, you know, a week later, like, actually this isn't
50:07
that great. There's a few things I dislike,
50:09
right? And so there's always going to
50:10
be opportunity on that margin to keep pushing things forward, I
50:12
think regardless of what becomes available, broadly speaking.
50:17
Yeah, like I, I, I find. Chat.
50:19
GBT I'm always using the most advanced aspects of it,
50:24
optimizing the way I I try to get information out and do
50:29
analysis and all that kind of stuff and I constantly find
50:32
myself being annoyed with it. Ultimately just I think just
50:38
indicative of like what it. Will actually feel like for.
50:40
Us humans working with machines 100% and I think LLMS are.
50:44
Still pretty terrible right now. They're pretty garbage.
50:47
I think it's interesting, right? I'm not sure if you guys.
50:49
Like disconnected for a second there.
50:51
But on this super abundance angle, you know, you've got
50:54
people like Stewart with Rivo and he's a developer, but he's
50:57
not writing most of his code, right?
50:59
He's fully there in the trenches using to the maximum extent the
51:04
the full extent of this abundance, right?
51:06
But there's still people out there who are going to have a
51:08
massive team of devs and do things the Luddite way, either
51:11
because, you know, it's the way that they've always done things
51:14
and they need an AI transition partner or because they're over
51:18
consuming other stuff, right? Their head and their attention
51:22
is somewhere else and not in transitioning to this like
51:26
fountain of abundance in the things that they need, right.
51:30
So I, I think that there's there's going to be demand,
51:32
right? People are going to have their
51:33
head in the sand, whether it's willingly they want to run away
51:36
from development, they and progression, or it's because
51:41
they're just paying attention to the wrong things.
51:43
Yeah, and there's also going to be a lot.
51:45
Of companies promising the same thing so by the time this one
51:49
comes out. Oh we've heard this 20 Times
51:51
Now. We thought it was going to be
51:52
lovable. We thought it was going to be
51:53
Google Opal. We thought it was bold.
51:55
We thought it was raplet. They're all just rappers at the
51:58
end of the day and just a little bit more advanced.
52:01
And so everyone's probably tired of that shit by the time
52:03
something like this comes out and they're like OK yeah, what
52:06
is it this time. And so that'll also like for the
52:09
people who even follow the AI news there.
52:11
There will be skepticism always because everyone's claiming the
52:14
most in all of their marketing and these companies do jump up
52:18
like lovable did 100 million in the first what 9-10 months.
52:23
So like I think the company that does it the right way will
52:25
probably touch a billion in a year.
52:27
If it's truly different from the other ones that everyone's
52:30
promising for you know app creation or whatever whoever's
52:34
going to take all the marbles and so there's still going to be
52:38
a lot of opportunity for implementation in other people's
52:41
businesses regardless of like if people want people's don't have
52:45
time to even play around with with bolt lovable.
52:48
All that stuff. So you know there's always going
52:50
to be a role. For someone to to do that stuff
52:52
for for other businesses so that's kind of like where our
52:55
whole angle is and opportunity is going to be and I want to be
52:58
able to be ready when that happens because we got to switch
53:01
because then and then we'll eventually like kind of become
53:04
irrelevant. At that time, not exactly like
53:07
people are probably still going to use it because of the comfort
53:10
it provides, but I probably won't need to use it ever again.
53:15
You know when this when this platform comes out and so we got
53:18
to teach the new people how to how to make money with it.
53:21
And so that's like what I'm like, my main focus is on doing
53:24
because we run the info side too, because we have the agency
53:27
and then I I do the mentorship. And so both of them are very,
53:30
very important to like run simultaneously.
53:34
So real quick. So this.
53:36
Platform comes out six months later.
53:39
Won't there just be a better one that comes out that everybody
53:41
switches to again, probably, you know, see like stuff like that
53:44
could always happen or it could. Continuously get better and
53:45
better. So that's why I there's so much
53:48
noise and I, I think ultimately that noise is going to cause
53:51
people to be skeptical and not jump into, you know, trying out
53:54
a new platform when it does come out.
53:56
But we know how good it's going to be because we'll go through
53:58
and break it and use it as much as possible And OK, we know this
54:01
is the real deal. We'll make it our core.
54:03
Like we're going to teach everyone how to use this and how
54:05
to make as much money and get in and, and make as much change as
54:08
fast as possible. And that's kind of the
54:10
mentality. I think that's such a good point
54:12
though, Jeremiah, because, you know.
54:14
Part of what you said was everyone's going to jump to the
54:16
next one, right? But everyone is actually like
54:19
0.0001% people because like most people are, you know, I've
54:24
spoken to people recently that are like, yeah, I've never used
54:26
ChatGPT, right? They they're scared of AI,
54:30
They're skeptical of AI, whatever happens to be
54:32
skepticism is kind of the, you know, that's the best case
54:36
scenario when they've actually tried a few things and they're
54:38
disheartened, right? And at this point, if you if you
54:41
actually keep up with it. It's something new every day,
54:44
like every single day there's something new out there.
54:47
So it's like, I agree with you, like it's going to be, it's
54:51
going to be hard to like make some noise unless you're
54:54
actually the real deal and then people will check you out.
54:56
But even then, it's still .1% of of the total total addressable
55:03
market, all right. We're losing hosts.
55:07
People are. Dropping off like flies.
55:08
It was Bennett. It was fine to meet you,
55:12
Jeremiah. Nice meeting you, Zach.
55:14
Close to. You guys, I'll take it easy.