Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Some People Value "Stuff" And Some Don't And One Way Isn't Better

Transcript

Some People Value "Stuff" And Some Don't And One Way Isn't Better · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the dr.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show, today, we're going to talk about how some
• 0:10
  people value stuff for material possessions and some people
• 0:14
  don't, and how one, way isn't better.
• 0:16
  And the sort of conflict is causes in couples.
• 0:20
  And what, how, to reframe, how you think about your partner's
• 0:24
  perception of stuff before we get to that?
• 0:27
  Please do subscribe. The most recent subscriber only
• 0:30
  episode was on dysfunctional families and how people who
• 0:33
  understand that. Their families are dysfunctional
• 0:36
  from, you know, from childhood are in a slightly better place
• 0:40
  than those who don't. And I will describe the various,
• 0:44
  you know, phenomena that I see around each of those two paths
• 0:49
  surrounding family dysfunction and your awareness of it anyway.
• 0:53
  Okay, so let's go to the topic at hand.
• 0:55
  So there was an interesting conversation in my Facebook
• 0:59
  group which you should subscribe to.
• 1:01
  That's a separate subscription remember from Spotify because
• 1:04
  those Two things are not linked facebook and Spotify aren't
• 1:07
  linked. But if you want to join the
• 1:09
  Facebook group, we talk about a lot of interesting topics I
• 1:13
  engage in there. A lot, the link is in all of my
• 1:16
  episode descriptions to join that.
• 1:19
  So anyway, there's an interesting discussion about
• 1:21
  stuff and you know, somebody who was more of an H SP highly
• 1:29
  sensitive person was saying, basically kind of stuff doesn't
• 1:31
  matter live below your means. So then, you know, Do you have
• 1:35
  security later on and you can really enjoy the fruits of your
• 1:39
  labor, you know, later on in your life, you know, and this is
• 1:43
  a common sort of thing, you know, with the find it.
• 1:46
  There's a whole bunch of I've talked about this, the financial
• 1:48
  Independence retire. Early Reddit fire acronym and
• 1:53
  Mister Money, Mustache. And all of these different
• 1:56
  people who think that. Yes, like, you should not buy a
• 2:00
  lot of stuff, you should never buy a new car, you should never,
• 2:04
  you know? Have your mortgage should never
• 2:06
  be too big and instead you should basically be saving up so
• 2:10
  that you have security for later on and the same sort of people
• 2:14
  generally think that experiences are better to spend your money
• 2:18
  on better and quotes than stuff. Right?
• 2:21
  So that if you were going to travel, let's say that would be
• 2:24
  a better thing to do than buy a new car.
• 2:28
  Okay? So, like this is kind of a
• 2:30
  philosophy that, you know, sounds pretty good.
• 2:33
  It sounds like it'd be like, hell, Healthier or something.
• 2:36
  Then then another philosophy of buying the new car and buying
• 2:40
  the big house, right? So, let's set aside the idea of
• 2:45
  security. Let's assume that somebody wants
• 2:48
  to work and feels they will be able to work.
• 2:52
  And I know you've course anything could happen at any
• 2:55
  time to anybody. But let's just say that, it's a
• 2:58
  more usual situation. Where a person says, okay, you
• 3:01
  know, II really want to buy a lot of stuff.
• 3:04
  Want to work until 65 or Beyond to pay for it, you know, and I
• 3:08
  have a thriving career now. And you know what?
• 3:11
  I let's say have enough money really even even if I had to
• 3:16
  retire earlier than that, I would have enough money, right?
• 3:19
  So then it turns into like a philosophical sort of debate.
• 3:23
  And that's what I see in a lot of my clients where one partner
• 3:27
  thinks that it is shallow to spend money on things and the
• 3:31
  other person thinks that it is it is not You know, and the
• 3:35
  person and this really relates a lot to my podcast on class when
• 3:40
  one person wants to jump to the next socio-economic class and
• 3:43
  have all the signifiers of the next class and the other one
• 3:45
  doesn't. And next I mean the higher class
• 3:49
  and you can go back and listen to that but it's interesting
• 3:51
  because it's just like religions or just like any belief system
• 3:56
  when I'm working with couples. The idea isn't to say like that
• 3:59
  one way is better. Because why, why is one way
• 4:02
  better? Somebody wants a new car, it
• 4:04
  could mean. Many things to that and I say
• 4:07
  this really transparently it's somebody who is more like the
• 4:11
  the former person the person in the group who wanted to live
• 4:14
  below their means and have like a crappy car and you know not
• 4:18
  the biggest house they could afford because they like to save
• 4:21
  or investor or what have you as a security.
• 4:23
  That's how I personally identify with my Dodge Caravan, you know,
• 4:27
  as cool as that car is, you know.
• 4:30
  But over time, you know, I've realized It's really just a
• 4:35
  belief system, you know it's it's something that that works
• 4:39
  for me but it's just really a belief system.
• 4:43
  It doesn't have any greater value.
• 4:45
  It's not right or wrong. There are plenty of people that
• 4:48
  I work with income. You know when couples fight
• 4:51
  about this stuff, there are plenty of people who are just as
• 4:53
  happy buying a new car as the other person is saving money or
• 4:56
  going on a trip. I mean, it's pretty obvious.
• 4:58
  That there would be different sorts of different sorts of
• 5:03
  things that give people Joy. And it's really like a love
• 5:06
  language. It's like a gift.
• 5:08
  Love language, the people who like stuff, it's like they have
• 5:10
  a gift love language and the gift is an expensive thing, you
• 5:14
  know, they like it, you know, and it's really it could be
• 5:18
  based on culture. It could be based on how they
• 5:20
  grew up all of the things I talked about in the class
• 5:23
  podcast. So like if you never had a car
• 5:25
  you know I didn't have a car growing up until I was a
• 5:30
  teenager. And so to me any car is good but
• 5:34
  There are people who would have an exact opposite perspective
• 5:38
  that since they had no card, all, they want to have the best
• 5:40
  car and they get a lot of joy out of having the, you know, an
• 5:44
  awesome, like a Porsche or something.
• 5:45
  You know? And so that's, that's not bad.
• 5:48
  You know, that is what makes them happy, why not?
• 5:51
  You know, like really why not? And it's it's it's the sort of
• 5:57
  thing where it's easy to get on your high horse and it's easy
• 6:01
  for the person who likes the things to look down on the other
• 6:04
  person, as A joyless buzzkill and it's easy for the person who
• 6:08
  likes to save to say that the other person is responsible or
• 6:12
  shallow, but those things aren't real.
• 6:15
  Those are just a way a lens through which a person views and
• 6:20
  opposing belief system, really no different than how
• 6:22
  Republicans view Democrats Or democrats, four Republicans or
• 6:25
  what have you. So what you need to do, if you
• 6:28
  are in a marriage, where you have differing perspectives on
• 6:32
  this is, you really need to try to dig deep to Thighs with your
• 6:35
  partner and you need to look at the origin of why they feel as
• 6:39
  they do, you know, and that can make you understand them a lot
• 6:43
  more. Also, just even a love language
• 6:46
  framing can make, you understand them a lot more because, you
• 6:50
  know, love languages. There's no one that's like
• 6:54
  better than the others. I mean, I've said personally
• 6:57
  that, I think physical touch is the most important in a sense
• 7:00
  because you cannot Outsource it. That is the, it's the only You
• 7:04
  want that, you can't get from anybody else especially sex, you
• 7:08
  know, but that aspect of the love language, but in terms of
• 7:14
  the other Love Languages, you know, you're not going to get
• 7:16
  too far saying to a therapist, you know, like my love language
• 7:19
  is words of affirmation hers is quality time, so mine's better.
• 7:24
  So I think we should just do words of affirmation because
• 7:26
  like hers is kind of stupid. Like, obviously that seems
• 7:28
  ridiculous. You know, the entire point is
• 7:31
  just to understand your partner better and the way that you
• 7:34
  think about Money should be more in this framing.
• 7:37
  You're trying to understand your partner, better.
• 7:40
  You're trying to see why they think is they do, you're not
• 7:42
  trying to train them to think like you you know you're trying
• 7:45
  to maybe reach a compromise certainly because one person
• 7:48
  wants to spend 50k on a car and the other person wants to spend
• 7:52
  10 on a car. You know that's going to be
• 7:54
  pretty big difference, but the compromise can be reached much
• 7:59
  more quickly and with less hostility when both people are
• 8:03
  trying to deeply empathize with the So, there are a lot of
• 8:06
  people who think, for example, men who are more on the
• 8:10
  financial Independence, retire early sort of mindset that think
• 8:14
  that their wife is shallow for wanting to go shopping.
• 8:17
  And when we really talk about what shopping means to her, they
• 8:20
  change their mind, you know? And I've seen this happen, like
• 8:23
  somebody who says, you know, I never had the right clothes and
• 8:26
  I didn't really fit in. And the only times that I
• 8:28
  remember being happy as a kid were once.
• 8:31
  I had my first job and then I got like the right genes and the
• 8:34
  right White shoes and the right you know, shirt and I finally
• 8:38
  looked okay and I fit in it was such a relief and I want the
• 8:42
  kids to feel like that that they can always fit into they don't
• 8:46
  have to be a pariah and you know it's just something that brings
• 8:49
  me joy is that I have the ability now to keep up with
• 8:53
  Trends in a way that I never was as a kid, right?
• 8:55
  Because I didn't have the money and and or my parents didn't
• 8:58
  value it, that man then feels a hell of a lot different about
• 9:02
  his wife shopping, you know, because he Can understand that
• 9:05
  he can empathize with how she grew up, he can think, wow.
• 9:08
  You know, I've seen pictures of her when she was a child and
• 9:11
  picturing her, you know, like at that age, feeling like she
• 9:14
  didn't fit in feeling, like everything was terrible.
• 9:16
  And that nobody looked at her like she was worth anything
• 9:20
  because she didn't have the right clothes.
• 9:22
  And I could see now why it's a source of comfort.
• 9:24
  And, you know what, I'm proud of myself that I can make the money
• 9:28
  to give it to her or that we together, make the money that
• 9:31
  she can then be happy in this regard.
• 9:34
  You know, and and what about the other perspective?
• 9:37
  So, somebody who thinks let's say that his wife is a joyless
• 9:40
  buzzkill because she's always wanting to hoard money.
• 9:43
  What if he understands, why why she values?
• 9:46
  Let's say, the all the money going into the retirement
• 9:51
  account. If she saw her parents have to
• 9:53
  depend on, you know, the handouts from the person and
• 9:57
  their siblings and not have any flexibility and always be so
• 10:01
  anxious about money or if she saw so what she felt was
• 10:05
  irresponsible spending by the parent, there's always going to
• 10:08
  be a reason, you know what I mean.
• 10:09
  There's always going to be a reason that somebody has their
• 10:12
  worldview on money. There's not a good way, there is
• 10:16
  not a bad way, you know, as long as somebody makes enough money
• 10:20
  to keep up with their lifestyle. You know, this is, we're not
• 10:23
  talking about somebody who's like gambling away, the family,
• 10:25
  finances or somebody who is unemployed but just, you know,
• 10:30
  least a new car, you know, not talking about that sort of
• 10:34
  thing. Talking about a situation in
• 10:36
  which in reality people would be evenly.
• 10:39
  Split some people would say. Yeah, man, you made it.
• 10:42
  Go go get yourself. A Range Rover and other people
• 10:45
  would be like, oh sure, definitely suck that away into
• 10:48
  retirement. We're not talking about a
• 10:49
  situation which 99% of people would be like that's
• 10:52
  irresponsible spending. So when we're not talking about
• 10:56
  a situation that's in the extremes or seems pathological
• 10:59
  to the you know, the Casual Observer then you got to just
• 11:02
  consider it a difference in. Belief systems and a difference
• 11:06
  in belief systems. There's no right and there's no
• 11:07
  wrong, you know it's so important to understand that
• 11:12
  that are really is just like a Catholic person.
• 11:14
  Saying, a Jewish person is wrong or vice versa.
• 11:17
  It's there is no right or wrong. There's just a philosophy of
• 11:21
  money and the best that you could do.
• 11:23
  The best thing for your marriage to do is to understand the
• 11:25
  etiology, the development of this world view about money.
• 11:30
  Because once you can understand where it's coming from, you
• 11:34
  know, Then the person seems so much so much more sympathetic.
• 11:41
  The your partner becomes a sympathetic character instead of
• 11:44
  somebody who is basically threatening your way of life
• 11:48
  with their philosophy. And so instead of being against
• 11:52
  each other, it's the two of you not one against the other but
• 11:55
  both of you on the same side against misunderstandings about
• 11:59
  money. So it's like the couple is
• 12:01
  coming together and saying we don't want to have any more
• 12:03
  misunderstandings about Out money, we want to deeply
• 12:05
  Understand Each of our individual philosophies about
• 12:09
  money where they came from and how they could possibly work
• 12:12
  together, you know, maybe we could get a car that isn't quite
• 12:16
  as new but isn't a clunker, you know.
• 12:18
  And isn't like the the most practical cheapest car on the
• 12:22
  lot. But also isn't, you know, a new,
• 12:24
  you know Lamborghini, right? I mean, there's like there's
• 12:27
  something in between or maybe we could do some experiences but we
• 12:31
  could also, you know, get the kids, the new Game console you
• 12:35
  know or what have you. So the point is to look at most
• 12:40
  things almost all things are just belief systems that were
• 12:44
  passed down or that we created in response to a way that we
• 12:48
  were raised that. We didn't like some people just
• 12:50
  holy take their parents belief system, which is another
• 12:53
  understandable thing. So like for example you're
• 12:55
  thinking well yeah, but I mean my my husband is not like he was
• 12:59
  raised poor. Something like he was rich
• 13:01
  family's rich, they're all just spoiled rich.
• 13:04
  I'll just buy whatever they want.
• 13:06
  Yeah but like a first of all it's pretty fucking
• 13:10
  understandable. Then isn't it?
• 13:11
  You know that he's not out to get you?
• 13:13
  That this is like a philosophy that has worked for his parents
• 13:16
  you know and also like still you can get deeper what spending
• 13:21
  money means to him. What does the new car mean?
• 13:24
  Maybe truly he is at his job that he really doesn't like and
• 13:29
  the thing that he really derives Joy from is knowing that Job can
• 13:34
  buy him a new car. Maybe he loves the new car that
• 13:38
  much. I mean, really people love cars.
• 13:41
  I mean, it seemed silly to people who don't but sure,
• 13:44
  people love houses, people of cars, people of jewelry.
• 13:48
  You know, nowadays people, more and more young.
• 13:50
  People are saying, they don't want a diamond for ethical
• 13:53
  reasons or whatever. For a engagement ring, they
• 13:55
  don't even want an expensive ring at all.
• 13:57
  But like 20 years ago, it would be, it was just a totally
• 14:03
  different culture. And of course you had a diamond
• 14:05
  for an engagement ring. Of course it was understood that
• 14:08
  that was obvious. And there were these rules like
• 14:10
  two months salary for the man should be an engagement ring or
• 14:13
  whatever. And now there's just a totally
• 14:16
  different philosophy around it, you know, and people just don't
• 14:19
  care in the same ways and so it's not like that was wrong
• 14:23
  then and this is right now and diamonds or expensive non
• 14:28
  diamond. Rings may come back into favor
• 14:29
  in the Next Generation who knows and they still are in favor in
• 14:33
  many cultures. But the point is, any time that
• 14:36
  you can see your partner as having a philosophy that
• 14:42
  originated in their upbringing, you know, and, oh, by the way.
• 14:45
  So what are some just spat back to what I was saying before?
• 14:49
  Just in case you're like, well, what about the rich guy, who's
• 14:51
  just a spoiled rich guy, a maybe he works purely for the joy of
• 14:55
  buying the things which is like, having a gift love language and
• 14:58
  reality. Maybe he has wonderful memories
• 15:02
  of engaging. With these things with his
• 15:05
  family and wants to pass that down for real.
• 15:08
  I mean, people love things, if you're not a thing person, it'll
• 15:12
  be a real mind-blower to kind of realize this.
• 15:16
  A lot of people have wonderful memories of things.
• 15:19
  They really, really do. You know, they have wonderful
• 15:24
  memories of their family moving into a big new house and how it
• 15:29
  was awesome and their friends thought they were the bomb.
• 15:32
  And it was they had Parties at their pool and like the fact
• 15:37
  that their parents were able to upgrade to a new house was
• 15:39
  considered awesome. You know, I mean, that's, that's
• 15:43
  the thing that's like a real thing.
• 15:45
  And so that person, then when they get older, they want to
• 15:48
  give their own child, that that experience.
• 15:51
  But if you were raised and to look down on massive
• 15:54
  expenditures and your parents taught you to live below your
• 15:57
  means and y'all never upgraded house and you just, I say
• 16:01
  upgraded again in quotes and you stayed in a small Smaller house
• 16:04
  than your peers. But let's say you thought that
• 16:06
  that was good and your parents are making a good decision.
• 16:09
  You really respected your parents and what they told you
• 16:11
  if their financial decisions and philosophies then of course,
• 16:14
  both of you are going to be on your high horse about the other
• 16:17
  one. You know, I'm watching the show
• 16:19
  Fleischman is in trouble. And it really speaks to this
• 16:22
  issue a lot. It's a really good show that you
• 16:25
  guys should watch about about. It was based on a book about
• 16:30
  the, the, you know, Fleischman is a title character.
• 16:33
  And he's Divorcing or has divorced his his ex-wife, and
• 16:37
  they have a lot of philosophical differences.
• 16:39
  There's a lot of stuff that I talked about him in terms of
• 16:42
  relationship issues, that it's interesting to watch the show
• 16:44
  and see how that manifests in the couple.
• 16:46
  So that is a recommendation from me and talks about this and of
• 16:50
  course, a million other, you know, media to talk about the
• 16:55
  financial disparities, you know, and financial fight and
• 16:59
  different philosophies around money and couples.
• 17:01
  This is not like a new idea but hopefully This podcast episode
• 17:05
  gave you a little bit of a different way to think about it
• 17:07
  somewhat less judgmentally, which is always really really
• 17:11
  important when you're trying to get along with your spouse.
• 17:13
  It's not to be on your high horse and not to think that your
• 17:16
  philosophy is somehow better or healthier.
• 17:18
  All right? I'll talk to you soon.
• 17:19
  Bye, bye.