Latest / To All the Men I've Tolerated Before / Prepping for Marriage Two

Transcript

Prepping for Marriage Two · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Hey, tolerators, this is to all the men I've tolerated before.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: With Nady Katona, your weekly look at everyday misogyny. Today,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: we are lucky enough to have Samantha Pusudo Drugger joining
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the team. Samantha is a best selling author, image consultant,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: and media personality who turned her personal journey into her
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: book Ninety Days to Husband Number Two. She's here today
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: to talk to us about her book, how misogyny affects marriages,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: and what we should think about should we find ourselves
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: prepping for marriage number two.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Hi Samantha, Hi Na, Thank you so much for having
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: me today on your show.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: No problem, Thank you so much for being here. I
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: just gave a lot of background information for the listeners.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: But if you would like to talk about what got
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: you interested in turning your journey into a book, I'm
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: sure they'd love to hear it.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Sure, my journey was that I got divorced and it
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: was tragic for me. And then I evolved and spent
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: some time as a single gall again and got to
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: know myself at a new age bracket and new life
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: and to live independently and explored things, and then I thought,
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: you know, I might like to share my life with
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: somebody again. But you know, you can only get married
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: the first time. You promise forever, and then you get divorced.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: So the word forever has changed for you. Forever the
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: vernacular of the world has changed. So I thought, I
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: would like to spend myself my life the remaining years
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: with another person, if I could find the right person.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I was open to the idea, but I had my
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: own plans. I was going to leave the country and
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: open up a business somewhere else. And then a friend
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: of mine, I write a column for Divgelsdaily dot com,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: and she called me and said that she wanted me
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: to cover a dating app that was launching on Fashion Week.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: So I did, and what I interview, Joseph Shapiro was
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: the godfather of all airnet dating. Me owe it to
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: him when he created g D, which was the first,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: and then he created one for every demographic he could
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: think of, and then sold the whole thing to like
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: e Harmony or Massive and so and so I interviewed
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: the man and I found him amazing. And he said
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: he you know, he had retired and then some kids,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: you know, millennials, wanted an app. So he made an app,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: and that's what he was launching. And I thought, well,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: that's cool. You want the next generation to find each other.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: And I dig that. I dig what you're doing. So
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I will match your your your mitzvah with a mitzvah.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I'll match your good deed with a good deed. And
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: this is your chance to put your hutzpah with your
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: app is. And I passed in my phone and I said,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: hook me up. And I will give you not a blurb,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: but not a page, but ninety days worth of coverage.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: And I will go on your app and I will
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: either find my husband in ninety days or I will
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: leave the country and start a new life.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: So those ninety days worth of articles about the dating
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: process and my twenty years as an image consultant working
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: with at least sixty percent to seventy percent sometimes male
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: clients and teaching them how to look for the right person.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: And I helped their dating game. I was the original
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: hitch on Walls and yeah, I cleaned them up and
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: gave them a spit shine tom how to be like
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: a human being on a date and ask them to,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: you know, ask themselves more intelligent questions rather than to
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: just tell me they wanted Barbie with a PhD. So
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: I had a wonderful window into the minds of men.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: But I've been helping people for twenty years become the
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: best version of themselves so that they can live their
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: best life, and in doing so and being clear about
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: what they want and what we were trying to achieve,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: attract the right person for them.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. When you were working with men and their
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: images and what they wanted in dating, could you see
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: pattern within their behavior that you were like that was
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: more socially conditioned into you and not maybe actually something
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: you've thought about.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Well, of course, So let's let's talk about sex, shall.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: We do? Do?
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: So? Men are taught to hunt and be aggressive and
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: make all the moves, and they're allowed because they're boys.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: So if they don't get pregnant, so nobody worries about them.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: They are allowed to roam free and they do. And
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: women we have to worry about getting pregnant and not
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: being called a slut and all this other baggage that
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: were ladled with by the you know, by the patriarchy,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: and so one there's a lot of people getting married
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: to each other for all the wrong reasons. You have
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: people getting married too young, especially these days, you have
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: people who then find themselves at thirty, just when it's
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: time to be making a baby, thinking I want to
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: get a divorce, And then by the time you roll
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: around to the idea of husband number two, you are
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: perhaps even a decade older or more. And now so
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: we also as women, are ladled down, literally baggaged down
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: with this biological clock. We have some that we can
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: reproduce for and that's it. And now we have all
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: kinds of weird science and we can do all kinds
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: of things. But still, even if let's say I had say,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: like besides is crazy and I could have a baby
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: at sixty, you can't. But let's say you can do
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: I want to leave this earth at eighty with a
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: child who's twenty. You think a twenty year old can
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: fend for themselves in this insane world as it is
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: right now. I wouldn't want to leave a human being
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: behind who wasn't like, you know, who still was exploring,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: who's still learning, still growing. I mean, you know, a
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: couple hundred years ago, we only lived till forty, so
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: you know, it was a different a different mindset. You
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: had to get married when you were you know, twelve thirteen,
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: fourteen fifteen, because you know, you were ready to go
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: and your parents could make either peace with the next
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: village or some income. But selling you.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Correct, Yes, that is always a great reminder about like
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: literally marriage started as just like a social political gain
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: for your family, Like it was an institution designed by
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: men to further their power with the female children that
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: they didn't know what to do with.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: But also as a woman, even if let's say you
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: didn't need a man to make a baby, but like
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: if you didn't need I mean now you don't need
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: a man to make a baby. But honestly, back then
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: they didn't have the technology we know have. So let's
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: put the man aside for a moment. Let's say you're
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: a woman that wants kids. There are women like that.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: There are women that they know from the time they
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: can walk, that they want to be a mommy, that
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: they want to make babies, that they won't have a family.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: It's a couple hundred years ago, the chances of the
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: survival of your offspring was pretty low. Measles and malaria
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: and all kinds of stuff. Right, Like, all these moms
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: and I don't know, typhoid flew and all the things
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: the babies used to die of that they don't die
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: of now, So you would have, like you know, several
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: and maybe you died in childbirths. So to keep the
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: human species going, the idea was to have babies, and
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: considering that maybe some of your offspring wouldn't make it,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: you might want to have a few more so the
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: couple die, you still have a couple, like you know,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: maybe that was partly the mindset as well. And then
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: we got into agriculture, and of course then you want
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: a big family so that you have more hands to
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: take care of the farm. There's so many reasons that
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: we find ourselves in the modern world being able to
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: as women. We get to vote, we get to drive,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: we get to work if it amuses us. We get
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: to go to university. It's like a whole new worl
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: well and we can, you know, become doctors and lawyers
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: and rocket scientists now, and you know that requires a doctorate,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: so it takes a little time. And then you come
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: out of that education and now you are thirty and
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: it's time and you don't even know yourself yet. So
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: much time studying. I don't even know who you are yet, please,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: And I'm certainly not the same person I am at
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: I won't say how old. I am not the same
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: person that I was at thirty, that's for sure.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I also find it fascinating when I think about
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: people who you know. You know, there's a movie The
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Materialist coming out the summer where a girl's going to
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: make a really bad choice and not pick very rich
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Papa Pascal and instead pick some dude with roommates and
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: she's a match and some part of the preview is
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: her talking to a man and he's like, you know,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I'm just like ready to settle down with someone who's
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: more age appropriate and mature, and she goes, oh, I
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: have the perfect client for you, and she's thirty three,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: and his entire face falls and he's like, well, I
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: didn't mean an age that, and like you're just waiting
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: for him to say hi, and then they cut to
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: the next thing, and we did an episode about Summer
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Charm or Summer Charm I'm combining to Bravo's shows Southern Charm,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: which follows a group of young men in Charleston, South Carolina,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: and that show revolves around their Peter Pan syndrome. I
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: find that because men don't have the biological pressure that
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: women have, they will just draw out that process of
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: growing up and settling down and building a family until
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: they're like forty five. I mean, some of the guys
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: on Southern Charm are getting well into their full forties,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: if not closer to fifty because they don't have the pressure.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: So life is just a fun little game and they
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: have money, and they get attention, and they have cameras,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: and they're like, why would I ever settle down. I'm
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: living a high life and it's so fascinating.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Huh, I said, Can you blame them?
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: No, honestly, I mean I part of the reason I
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: chose to be child free is because I was like, oh,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: I've just started to figure out who I am at
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: the right young age of thirty two. I have things
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: to gain in the career that I want, and I
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: love kids. But that's a lot of time and effort, right.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: I think that in my you know, and we have
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: these ideas of what we're supposed to be at a
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: certain age, and that we need to have our act
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: together by this time, so we can do that by
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: that time up and the Peter Pan syndrome. Men of
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: the world, well one two, we let them right. They
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: are clearly living outside whatever traditional familial or cultural pressures
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: there might be on men in other cultures to pay
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: a case time.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, by the way, is your wife, Yeah it's or
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: here's a list of candidates and you're going to meet them.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: All of them this week were interviews. So like the
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Peter Pants syndrome. Goodness, if I were.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: A man of means, you know, I can't really I
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: can't really throw shade because that's they must be having
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: so much fun.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I can't blame that.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I end up more concerned about the
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: twenty two year olds that they then try to marry,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: because now you've got a twenty two year old married
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: to a forty five year old and she's probably left
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: the house a handful of times to try and figure
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: out what kind of movie she likes, some food and whatnot.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know, twenty something year old women have been
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: married off to forty something year old men and older
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: for century.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: For centuries. Yeah, and I think that, I mean.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I think it's more uptight about it now than we
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: used to bring.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Well, yes, I will give us that that now we
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: do have pause and go did that Oh okay, yeah,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: we are more uptight about it, and I I mean,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: and then when you think about that gap between a
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: first marriage, because so many people are married still pretty young,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Like I remember it was. I think my dad said
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: if I turned twenty five and I still wasn't married,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: he'd give me the money that he was saving for
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: my wedding. And then I said, I wanted to go
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: spend a year in Europe or travel or something with
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: that money. And then he was like when, And then
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: he was like, when you're twenty seven, I'll give you
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: that money, because he didn't want me to leave the country,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: probably knowing I'd never come back. But yeah, the idea
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: of me just kind of like hanging around and still
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: dating losers by the time that I was thirty, was like, oh,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: I think everyone around me just assumed, oh, Namby's never
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: getting married.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: It's just not happening, you know, And whether it does.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Or does not, it's your choice, right, your choice, because well,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: at least in this conversation, you and I are not
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: in situations we are where we are forced to marry somebody.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: It's not a marine marriage. Situation we're dealing with. I
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: have had the luxury of choice, and you have the
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: luxury of choice, and if you decide that you don't
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: want a husband, you don't have to have one, and
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: you might be happier prolonging your own personal Peter Pan
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: syndrome and utilize what I call the rotation schedule.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Oh what's the rotation schedule?
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Oh? The rotation schedule, which is in my book, is
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: a way to enhance your social calendar and date multiple
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: men at a time, not to have threes secret relationships,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: but hard dating. You are as if you were the
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: bachelorette and you are basically auditioning suitos.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: So the rotation schedule implies that you can have a
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: coffee date in the morning and a lunch date in
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: the afternoon, and a cocktail date and a dinner date.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you really add it up, you've got
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: time to actually sift through quite you know, many human
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: beings in the course of a month without getting all
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: entangled in it, but just to see if they are
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: worthy of more of your time, and then you add
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: and delete until a winner e merges or perhaps you
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: know in your heart that marriage is not for you.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: And that's okay. You are not required to to get married.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Maybe some women are happier and men for that matter, simle,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: some men are. Some people are not meant to be married.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Some people it's not a good life for them, it's
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: not a fit. And I and I admire the I mean,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: if we're really getting into it, I really admire the
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: polyamorous house of the world because I mean, really that's
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: that's uh, that's a concept I really did. I mean,
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: there's a lot to be said for that. There's multiple
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: income strains coming into the household. If that household that
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: is Polly has kids, there's always somebody around. There's uh,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: you know, multiple hands to clean, multiple lots of love.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Real love is infinite, not finite. You can't be all
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: things to all people. And you know, I know that
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: I wrote this book. You know that sounds, you know,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: very very conservative, but it's not. And I'm really very
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: open minded. And I can really, I can really see
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: the appeal I dig the appeal of a of Polly's situations.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: In fact, there is a new show called Doctor Odyssey,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: and it's about a cruise ship.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, with Joshua Jackson.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, And and there is this love triangle amongst the
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: medical staff and they are in a thrupple and it's
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: you know, it's just it's spicy. He doesn't want to
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: watch that. But like for for you know, poly relationships,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: like I dig it, I get it. It makes sense.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: So marriage is up to you. There's no gun to
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: your head. You can free some eggs, you know, you
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: can get a sperm donor you can adopt. You can
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: decide to just have a dog instead. Like you've got choices.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: You've got choices, and marriages not for everybody, because marriage
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: is time consuming, is a commitment, it is an emotional commitment,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: it is a physical commitment. It is it's a big commitment,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: and it's not it's not. Marriage sometimes is not easy.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: So in an ideal universe, you would if you decided
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: that you'd like to share your life with a person,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: or two people or three people. Okay, let's be open here.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: But if let's say you wanted to in the traditional sense,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: marry a person and and share your life with that person.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: And if we're talking about men, okay, we'll say you
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: want to marry a man and then look for somebody
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: who is in alignment with your values. Your core values
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: in line with your cultural dispositions and cultures, because you
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: might think it doesn't matter in marriage. Things get lost
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: in translation. So it's fine to you know, if you
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: fall in love with somebody from the other side of
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: the planet and a different culture and everything, you know,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: that's beautiful, but it's another hurdle. Yeah, So I'm just
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: saying that if you share languages and values and culture,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: it's a little easier, that's all I'm saying.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, it's just there's lots of a learning curve
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: there with one another's families and things like that.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: If you don't speak a different language, if you speak
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: a language, or if they speak a different they're from
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: a different culture, or they're from a different religious perspective,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: like all of those things are big parts of life
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: where there's lots of room for things to get lost
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: in translation. Yeah, you go through the years, and so
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: it's I think easier if you have really good communication
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: skills both people, because that's important and that you understand
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: the difference between compatibility and chemistry because people have been
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: confused all the time.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so what's the rotation? The main tool in finding
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: a second husband within ninety days was it a lot
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: of online dates or just saying yes to a lot
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: of opportunities.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: It's about knowing what you want, putting it in your bio.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: This is who I am. Intelligent, funny, you know, outdoor,
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: whatever it is for you. I like to cook, I
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: like to make reservations, whatever it is. And I'm a
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: movie buff, etc et cetera. That's compatibility. I like pina coladas.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: You like pina coladas. That's compatibility. Chemistry is that undeniable
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: park m and that's different. And you've got to be
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: really clear about where your chemistry's at as well. Otherwise
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: you woman will be truly happy. And and you had
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: asked me if yes, So in your bio that is
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: your chance to state who you are and whom you seek.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: And you must be clear about whom you seek. That
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: is rule number one. Know what you want because once
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: you know what you want, where to find him becomes easier.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Because every animal is scared.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I will say that when it comes to the apps
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: and things, while written, profile is the first thing that
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I look at, like, did you at least write something
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: that lets me get to know you? Because if your
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: profile is lacking, or if you didn't take time to
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: do at least one of the two prompts that they
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: give you or something like that. I go, oh, you're
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: not serious. You're just swiping to swipe. And some people
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: date less seriously than I do. I personally do not
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: have the energy to date like it doesn't matter to
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: just like continue to get dressed and go out and
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: be like, well, maybe this person will be charming once
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: I get there. But I will also say that part
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: of the mind game that is online dating is the
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: actual onus on you to when you're looking at profiles,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: make sure that you're honoring exactly what you want. When
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I was still dating men, we were at a bonfire
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: and a friend asked me, like she was having troubles
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: with not so serious guys and guys not being serious
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: about her, and I'm a little witchy, so I told her,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: I go, I wrote it out, and she goes, what
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: do you mean. I go like, I literally wrote it out,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: like if it's if we're going for a perfection, this
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: is it for me in a partner, in a relationship
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: or whatever. And I got dumped that night because the
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: guy I was seeing was listening and realized he didn't
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: check off he's like, I'm never going to be that person,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: this person that you're describing that.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Has told you that the writing out is the first
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: exercise I give every single client.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's lovely, because I really do think that if
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: you write out your wishes first off. I think that
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: it's really important to always be saying out loud what
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: you want. And I find that in both romance and
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: like literally, like I tell people all the time, well,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: when I'm an Emmy Award winning television writer, it's just
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: more and more manifestation, and you put the energy out
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: and you're going to receive it eventually. So look at that.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: We're on the same page.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, literally, on the same page. And so as you
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: can see, I wrote this book as a workbook. This
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: is a humorous self help workbook. The places for you
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: to write in these exercises. Step one, your dream person
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: and then space for you a couple of pages to
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: explore what that person is like. Yeah, yeah, And I
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: did that for husband number one and two.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: By oh amazing, all of.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: My clients, and I've gotten a lot of people happily married.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: I mean they went on to have kids and they're
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: still married twenty years later, and like you got to. Yeah.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Step one is know what you want. I'm a little
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: witchy too, so I do. I like, what do you
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: want for your own life? And then separate piece of paper,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: what is your dream person like? And then when you're
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: in the process of the rotation schedule, because you are
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: a free woman until there's a ring on it, or
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: until you change three rings and you're in a polly
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: but whatever, until you're in a committed relationship, formally, you're
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: a free agent.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: And so you can add and delete throughout the week
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: until a winner emerges, or you can decide that you're
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: not getting married. You're not the marrying kind. It's not
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: what makes you happy. And you're just going to have
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: friendships that you are entitled to have, lovers that you
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: don't you know that you don't get legally attached to
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: you and you know, like you know, some men they
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: love to go out. They love to take you out
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: around the town. They know all of the restaurants, they
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: know all of the managers of every single restaurant. They
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: can always get a reservation. They you know, they like
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: to eat, they like to drink the files if you
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: like wine, there's somebody for you, that likes to drink wine,
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: that likes to stings, that keeps a professional sellers apartment.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Those men exist. Or a man that you absolutely should
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: never consider married because a fabulous dancer.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah they're right. So like, yeah, there's a person for
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: every season.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, on Monday it could be you know, ginding out,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: and Wednesday could be gym day and or dancing day.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: And Saturday could be like out to the movies or
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: the theater, your cultural fixed day. So depending on you know,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: because you can't beat all things to all people. But
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: sometimes you find these guys that don't fit the whole
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: package of what you're looking for. But they are super cool,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: they're fun, they're smart, they make you laugh. They are
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: your favorite person to meet with, or they are your
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: favorite person to go to the theater with or see
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: a movie with, or go to the gym, what you
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: love to work out with them, But you don't think
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: that you can face fifty years together.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I so, I really. I think where I fell
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: short and where I see a lot of my friends
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: falling short too, is when you are dating and you
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: have the clear picture in your mind of what you want.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: I think that because of the iological and societal and
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: sometimes family or friend pressure like to not be the
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: last single one or the last girl standing or whatever is.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Societal patriarchal bs.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, all of that bullshit is is I, as a
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: plus sized woman who has often been told that she's
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: funny but she's a little loud and a little too much,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: I would just go, well, maybe he's not enough. Yeah, honestly,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: I'd go, well, he hasn't meet all of my requirements,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: and there's even a couple of big ones that are
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: different than what I would want or missing. But you know,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: he's probably just dull enough or not as uh, he's
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: not going to get off this app any quicker than
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get off this app. So what the hell?
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: But I really do do you think that like part
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: of patriarchy and part of the pressure that we're always
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: under is making sure that we're always in a scarcity
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: mindset and willing to settle.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, see that is that? Yes, so I know exactly
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: what you're saying. You don't want to be the last
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: bridesmaid standing in your pack of gal pals. You don't
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: that people are saying if you wait too long, it'll
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: be too late, and if you wait any longer, then
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: they'll be already divorced and already have children, and then
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: they come with baggage or like there's always these excuses, right,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: or oh well, once they're you know, the age of retirement.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: You know, after two wives, they don't want number three,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: or you won't find the right person who's smart enough for,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: who is competent enough for Oh my god, we get pressured,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: or you know you don't want to wait too long
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: to make babies or oh my god, I mean or
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: oh the parents like him, but you you're not feeling
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: that spark. Yeah, so you know the spark is requirement too,
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: because patability and chemistry are not the same thing. Oh,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: and I tell my clients of who are going through
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: the rotation schedule and on the other exercises of being
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: the best version of themselves and being clear about whom
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: they wish to attract. To wear your ancestral jewelry.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Oh what does that mean?
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Like I'm a little witchy too, so I would wear
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: like my great grandmother's wedding ring, and like, you know,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: pearls from another aunt. And you know married women where
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: the jewelry of married relatives of your or your matriarchal ancestors.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: That's so funny. When my aunt was going through her
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: first divorce, my uncle would leave jewelry in the mailbox
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: for her and his weaker take me back bovits, and
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: she would save it for when I was coming to visit.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: And then she'd be like, do you want these diamond
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: earrings that your uncle dropped off? And I don't know.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I don't those have to be cursed. Why would I
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: want your bad romance jewelry. She's like, well, I don't
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: want them. I don't want him seeing me wearing them
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: at the shop and save or whatever and thinking he
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: has a chance. And I'm like, I don't know. I
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: guess we palm them, I like, or we get them
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: blessed by a healer or a witch or something. I
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: don't know. We have to cleanse them under I.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Wore my grandmother's diamond. I wore my great grandmother's diamond.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: I wore, you know, like a pearl necklace from my mom.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: I wore things from the matriarchy of my country, two
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: of women who were married, happy ish here and there.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that would be the biggest
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: problem of my ancestral jewelry is we're not we don't
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: have the grand with marriages. I'd have to be really
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: picky about what I put on, but I do usually better.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Like I had a grandmother and she got married a
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: second time, totally in love with the second husband, so
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: so definitely I wore that ring in the mix. Yeah,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying it just you know, like a yeah,
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: a little I'm a little I'm a little witchy that way, right.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: I believe that you can like talk to your metriarchal
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: ancestors and they they will come to your aid, they
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: will help you.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh no. My my grandmother and grandfather are currently
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: overlooking on my alter the script of the sitcom that
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: I wrote about our family, and I was like, but
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: keep it, keep out of the love life, Like I've
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: got that settled. But if you could send me more
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: memories that I can turn into comedy, I'd really enjoy that.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I love that I do. Because I do.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: It adds such a personal touch. When you said ancestral jewelry,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: I literally thought, and then you went to because I'm
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: a little witchy, I literally thought that you meant like
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: wearing things that represent who you are. Both past present
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: and future, like with that guy who dumped me. After
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh yeah, I wrote it all out
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: and it had things like and then he was like,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: couldn't ever be me. We met in this fucked up
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: scenario where we were doing like fake Love is Blind
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: on Zoom during the quarantine for entertainment purposes, right, And
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: because it was a blind date and I was literally
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: just talking to a black box on a screen, there
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: was no reason for me to put on aims or
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: to filter myself or anything. So to me, when I
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: arrived on you know, in person date one, I was like,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: he's got the whole thing and he's bought into it
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: because I just kept talking and he was laughing and
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: he was into it. Later on down the road, he
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: thought I didn't realize that those were your actual personality traits.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I thought that you were doing a running bit and
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, I'm just really funny. No
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: is that this.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Is what you get fucked? This is it. I'm always
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: I'm a walking running bit.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I'm a walking running bit. Like I was like, no,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: I really I believe in ghosts and crystals and I
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: love the music of Stevie Nicks, and I talked to
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: the animals at the zoo because I love animals, and
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: I learned their names, Like I I go, it wasn't
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: like completely off the wal nuts, but it was just
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: nuts enough, and I was just funny enough that he
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: was a walking insecurity everywhere that we went. And but
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't end that relationship when I should have because
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: the older women in my life and the other women
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: in my life kept telling me like, he's not doing
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: anything so terrible that it has to end, like and
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: I feel like we also get into that like sunk
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: cost fallacy where it's like, well, if I've survived two weeks,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I can survive three. If I've survived three weeks, I
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: can do a couple of months, Like maybe it'll get better,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Maybe it'll get better, Maybe it'll get better.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh right, Like when your mother takes the
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: side of your boyfriend, Yeah, poor.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Girl, and she's like, I understand that you're labeling this
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: as narcissistic emotional abuse family, but I have to say
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: that he did bring you over a family bag of skittles,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: and I think that that means he's sorry, even if
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: he can't say it out loud.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, like my mom like sides with my husband.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: I'm like, and I've had to learn such empathy about
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: women who are older than me because I'm like, well,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: my grandmother couldn't have a credit card and my grandaunt
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: never learned how to drive, and so they really did
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: rely on these men in my family, and they relied
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: on them for a lot of things. So I understand
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: if they're just looking at me being like, I don't know,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: he has a job, Okay, he could not have a job,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: and you could be stuck with them.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Different mindset from a different generation. And yes, if we
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: go back just four generations, maybe five, depending on your
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: social class, whatever, what are the chances that five generations
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: ago your matriarchal figure could read honestly? So then yeah,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: you're kind of stuck depending on the man. And if
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: you can't drive, and you can't vote, you can't do this,
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: and you can't do that, then yeah, you kind of
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: need a man. You need a man for protection because
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: we don't have the muscle mass that men do generally speaking,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: unless you're an Olympic to athlete whatever, but like generally speaking,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: if we go back through the ages, yeah you need it.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: The man power literally to I don't know, kill dinner
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: and protect you from you knowing village.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: And I think what I noticed when I see women
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: enterin into a second marriage or even entering into that
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: phase between their first marriage and the divorce and all
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: of that is because you are naturally older, and now
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: you do have all of these memories of the things
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: that you did not appreciate in your first marriage, you
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: do find a little bit more confidence and to really
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: stand up and get after what you want.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Yes. And you know, as women, we do a lot
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: of compromising. We do a lot of pushing ourselves inside
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: out for the approval of others. And you get to
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: a certain age and you're not You're not going to
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: do it anymore. You can't you you yeah, you're not
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: having it.
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: At third age and you're like, I'm not putting up
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: with anymore b at ariaed And you finally kind of
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: know who you are and your boundaries and your standards
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: and your limits and and and to come full circle, right,
• 41:33
  Speaker 5: I it was only during the pandemic and I was like, well,
• 41:40
  Speaker 5: if the world is coming to an end, I am
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: going to take this opportunity to finally do the thing
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: that I always wanted to do so. I mean I
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: have been I'm theater trained, you know, seeing dance.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: A triple thread. I get off Broadway like some place,
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: some voiceovers. But what it wasn't what I wanted to do.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: What I wanted to do was film and television. Well
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: I spent my thirties and my forties, you know, not
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: just as everybody's guest experts. It was like style dilemmas,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: but as a host as well, a host, a journalistic correspondent.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, this was fun, But I
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: want to try to do the thing that I always
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: wanted to do. Because when I said I wanted to
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: be Miss America, the parents said no, nice, you know,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: nice Jewish girls are not pageant queens. Or I would
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: get no, you're a girl, so you don't have to
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: go to Hebrew school. You're you know, we don't need
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: paid Do you go to Hebrew school because you're girls?
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Doesn't matter? Like when do I matter? When do I matter? Oh?
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: I would like to you know, I want to go
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: an audition and I want to be an actress one
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: day and know your you know, your job is to
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: go to Harvard and become a lawyer or you know whatever.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: It is, and because I was a woman, the idea
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: of fine arts was entertained, like that could be okay,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: as long as I go to doc school to do
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: it whatever. The thing that I always wanted to do
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: was act for film and television. So finally it took
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: the world, I mean to an end and be like, okay,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: all right, you know the rent is paid. You know
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to be on the street if i
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: don't go to work next week, so I'm going to
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: go back to school instead. And I spoke to my
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: husband about it. I was like, I need your support
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: with this. This is this, I need support with this,
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: and this is what I want to do.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: And it's so funny doing all of the screenwriting stuff.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: And I because I'm a type a Capricorn, I've always
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: been the person who's like I can work smarter and
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: never harder, but I can make it look like I'm
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: working hard entire time. And with screenwriting and acting and
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: things like that, you do so much work, never knowing
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: if it's going to pay off, like will this be it?
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Will this be it? Will this be it? So thank
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: god it's something that we love, or else my brain
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: would shut down and be like and that's how I
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: know I love it because I haven't quit yet.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, you know. Sometimes we get the role
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: and sometimes we don't. But I love creating the characters
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: and creating all these people and seeing inside the psyche
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: of all of these fictitious people. Also reminds me to
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: add in I think an important ingredient in the dating process,
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: which is one to have a sense of humor because
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: honeyed it. Yeah right, that's really you're gonna need it.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: And two every date, whether it's a love connection or not, Okay,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: it's soon that it won't be going in, but be
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: open to you never know. But most important, especially in
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: this age of text and zoom and never really see
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: people person anymore, when you finally have a blind date
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: and with a real, live human being and they are
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: across the coffee table from you, or having a glass
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: of wine with you, or dinner date, whatever it is,
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: it's an actual human being. It's also taking time out
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: of their life to come and meet you because they're
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: interested in meeting you. And even if it does not
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: evolve into a love connection, you meet them, you see them,
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: you're not interested, but before you just you know, sit
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: there and roll your eyes, you know, connect with the
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: human being. You have an opportunity to make a new friend,
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: to make a new contact. Who knows, maybe you buy
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: your next apartment from them? Well can you never know?
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: Like an opportunity to meet another human being and connect
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: with that other human being and explore them. Who are
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: you human?
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: What do you do?
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: Where have you been? Like? What you know? What does
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: your life look like? And an honor that you are
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: getting to connect with another human whether they're gonna, you know,
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: click with you or or not. You know, maybe just
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: you know, they're not your cup of tea. But that
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you can't have an interesting conversation, doesn't
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: mean you can't have a laugh, doesn't mean that you
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: can't enjoy a good glass of wine together and part
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: as you know, friends, or make a new contact because
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: you know, oh you you're a florist. Oh oh that
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: is cool? Or you're what a chef? Or what you know?
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: Like everybody has something that they do that's useful to you,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: but maybe to make you laugh. Maybe you have a
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: you know, interesting conversation and you know, finish the bottle
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: and you put ways and that's okay, So you know,
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: I'm saying, don't sit there with your arms crossed, rolling
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: your eyes. You know, I mean the poor guy, right,
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: like he tried, he carved time out of his schedule
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: to come and meet you, like he's at least hoping
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: for a polite, civilized chat.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I do think that part of online dating is
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: the like exhaustion of it, especially if you're living in
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: an area like Idea, where it's small and it's Midwestern
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: and it's conservative, and it's all of it, and you're
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: just like, well, and to add another layer of it,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I'm queer. So it's like you're not. Your pool for
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: dating just keeps shrinking and shrinking and shrinking. So I mean,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: those apps I think sometimes play into the scarcity mindset
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: for women. But then I think for men, I've witnessed
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: the opposite, where they just think like, oh, well, I
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: have all of the choices in the world.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, no, yes, right. I mean It's true men
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: come at it from a different mindset because, like you
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: said in the beginning of the conversation, men are encouraged
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: to roam and conquer.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, they're so used to getting exactly what they
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: want and when they want it to and I don't
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: mean that like their mothers failed by spoiling them or anything.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: I mean that society and everything that we go through
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: every day is designed to cater to them in some way.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: They're used to getting their way. They're used to having
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: multiple wives or multiple mistresses, or a wife and a mistress,
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: or whatever cavo amuses them. Men are courage to do that,
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: and we laugh, haha. Men behaving badly, whatever it makes,
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: it does because they are coming at life from a
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: standpoint of abundance. Yeah, and women are always traumatized going
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: into life thinking oh my god, oh my god, oh
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: my god. Yeah, but everything.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that that's why so many women
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: who are older than me say things like, is it
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: that bad when you're on the verge of breaking up
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: with someone? Did your family have like a notable response
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: to your first divorce? Because ever break up I've ever
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: gone through, someone has has had to say, I don't
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: know where you're being hasty.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: Ah, I'm trying to think back. So, my first husband
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: had a drinking problem, and I think that I chose
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: not to notice, or chose not to be as alarmed
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: or to get as seriously as I should have sooner.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: But he was the kind of alcoholic where you couldn't
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: even tell years to even notice the tells. Yeah, and
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: I think got to a point where, I don't know,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: the market crashed and everything became too much for him,
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: and so it it. I don't to this day. To
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: this day, I'm not exactly sure what happened, but I
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: know that a person with an alcohol addiction is the busy,
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: fragile person. And and yeah, people were very sad. I
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: think my mother spoke to him, my aunt spoke to him,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: My aunt continued to speak to him after we're divorced
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: with The thing I noticed about our patriarchal system is that,
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: you know, we told our friends, you know, we're still
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: both your friends decided not split up the children kind
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: of thing, right, But like overnight, all those people that
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: he was associated with disappeared from my life. Oh and
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: and once I didn't have the you know, the cool
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: marital plush pad and the parties and whatever, and I
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: wasn't married anymore, all of those married couples that we
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: used to you know, wind and dine with crickets. Yeah,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: and you know, people disappear. It's interesting how people disappear
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: when the chips are down.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and the way that I've seen that play
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: out too is and I've experienced it firsthand, where it's like,
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: because women societally are given a caregiver role, it always
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: becomes like, well, you're going to leave him now while
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: he's struggling, and it's like a shame component and it's
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: like you're just going against your nature and you're gonna
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: call it quits now and be selfish. And I think
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: we don't take into consideration like the weight of that
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: on women and the cost that that it costs years,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: it costs health, all of it.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, my divorce led to me having a heart attack.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: I mean honestly, you can die of a broken heart
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: more all of the story. So we have a big
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: sense of humor because.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I do. I think that part of the
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: beauty of either waiting until you're older to get married
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: or having that second marriage is that kind of fuck
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: off attitude that happens in your thirties. It happened overnight
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: for me. I was twenty nine one day, and then
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: a raving bitch the next day who would only do
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: things her way and said fuck this to all of
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: the expectations that were placed upon me, and it's only
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: gotten considerably worse every.
• 53:54
  Speaker 6: Year, because every year we are on this planet, we
• 54:02
  Speaker 6: become more and more evolved into who we are exactly,
• 54:09
  Speaker 6: and who we are is imprinted by age five. Yeah,
• 54:14
  Speaker 6: we just have all these years and decades to perfect
• 54:19
  Speaker 6: and develop who we are.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: But in some ways, your essence, if you will, is
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: the same as your five year old self.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I hope just now times dead. And I
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: think that there's such a beauty in stepping into one
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: one's own ness and and I hope that as we
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: move on. I mean, I lost a ton of friends
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: when I started reconfiguring boundaries and priorities to me and
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: started to get more active in things like feminism and
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: women's rights and legislation with that and doing the show
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: and stuff, I've lost a ton of friends, and I
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: think they were all blindsided, like I somehow betrayed them
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: instead of just we didn't grow in the same ways.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: And I think as women like we take a lot
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: of shame and guilt on when it comes to any
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: type of relationship not working out. It devastates me every
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: time I have a girlfriend to break up all right.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Because somehow it's our fault, right, We've got right. No
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: matter what happens, it's our fault. It's a lack of
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: it's a scarcity, it's I could have done a better job.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's my fault. Guilt, guilt, guilt. It's
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: my job to fix it. It's my job to smooth
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: it over. It's my job to ron out the wrinkles.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: It's my job to make nice. It's I jump to
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: like be nice.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. A friend and I were just talking about that
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: in the car on our way to lunch, where it's like,
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: no wonder as time goes on, women are getting more
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: and more autoimmune disorders. Were stressed all the time, like
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: so many chemicals just pulsing through our body all the time,
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: as we're meant to be everyone's nurse, mother, sex dollar preacher.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: Like I mean, So I had this experience when I
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: was a kid. We went to the park and I
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: was with my dad and I wanted to climb on
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: the jungle gym. I went to go, and he was
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: like busy playing ball with my little brother or something.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: But I went to go and like climb on the
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: jungle gym, and I got to the jungle gym, and
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: there were some boys on the jungle gym and they
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: didn't want to let me on JOm and they said
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: go away. And I said, but I want to find
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: the dungle jim and he said, no, you can't. You
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: can't climb the big one on the big ones. And
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: because you're a girl, what this is someth bs And
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: I was like, I'm gonna tell my dad. I mean why.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: I went running across the playground and I told my
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: father and I said, I want to climb the jungle
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: gym and boys won't let me. And he said that
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: I couldn't go there and climb because I'm a curl.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Like dad goes straighten this out. That's what I expected
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: him to do. I expected him to defend my I
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: expected him to defend my honor across the park with
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: me and say, hey, guys, you know, let let her.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Let her.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: That's what I expected.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: I expect that.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: What I got was, Oh, those are big boys. It's
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: for boys. Let the big boys play alone on the
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: big monkey bars. You could go over there and play
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: on the little whatever the hell? It was, right, so
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: pissed off, like at that moment, that was the moment
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: that my father was no longer my hero.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I think I think it would be amazing
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: to know how many women have a similar story where
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: it's like I look to you to affirm my worthiness
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: in my own situation, to protect me and to protect
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: me and to validate me, and to say that my
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: choices are good choices and my desires are something that
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: should be taken seriously. And instead I was my honor,
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: defend my honor, and instead I was told, your girl
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: stop causing wrinkles.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: It's for big boys. Right. Yeah, I was scanning so
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: much drama, so much drama, and so you know, to
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: this day, like that sits with me, like that affects,
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: that affected how I went into the world, Like that
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: was the first seed of rage, the first seed of
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: a digget rage was planted.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's the opening of He's Just not that
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: into You, where the little girl comes over crying because
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: a boy pushed her down and her mom goes, it's okay, sweetie,
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: he just likes you. And then it pauses and Jennifer
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: Goodwin just starts screaming. She's like, who tells us this?
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: And why?
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: Right? So if the guy pushes you it's because he
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: loves you. What kind of sick poison is that?
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, boys don't know how to like people, so so
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: instead they just push you.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: It's okay to give it them a black eye and
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: then tell her you love her. That's the same logic, right.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, and then they wonder that if we.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: Follow that train of logic, that's what we're really talking about.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: We're talking right. Oh, well, you know, boys can be
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: violent in the decades because you love you to show
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: your attention. My god, I mean think about it. It's
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: like frightening.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and move us into our closing ceremony.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: We like to wrap up every episode with a lesson
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: that you wish everyone would know and follow, and then
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: a manifestation, so a wish or desire that we can
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: all add our collective energy into. So if there's one
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: thing everyone should walk around knowing every day about anything
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: that you experience during your divorce or writing ninety days
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: to husband number two, or the rotation cycle or any
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: of it, what would you like everyone to know.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: Leaving yourself, even when it's not easy, love yourself, and yes,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: love yourself. You are worthy, have standards and boundaries. Do
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: not settle for a less than you deserve.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Your once, your desires and the life that you want
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: to live is valid. And I don't think we hear
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: it as much, especially in like late stage capitalism, where
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: we're all just supposed to be hitting rocks for billionaires
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: and clapping when they go to space. I'll clap when
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: they start leaving them up in space. I'll be like, yeah,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: you made it.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah exactly. So yeah, I like, like, do not
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: like believing yourself you are, love yourself, respect yourself, take
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: care of yourself. So yeah, that's that's the thing that
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: I love yourself. That's the thing that I I wish
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: I could give.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: And then what would you like to manifest?
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: What I would like to manifest for me or for womankind,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: both either or my own selfish desires is that everybody
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: buy a copy of my book and that all of
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: the auditioning and the studying and the hard work leads
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: to like the next really cheesy role that I can
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: sink my teeth into. So so uh, success in my
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: new career is my selfish manifestation. Wish for self, what
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: I wish for the sisterhood out there?
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 7: What I wish for humanity is more love, more sensitivity,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 7: more an open mind, and better communication skills.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, honestly, every time I complain about something that
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: I noticed in someone else's marriage, my friend Julia Washington,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: friend of the podcast who's been on here a bunch,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: will go it's because they're lacking in communication, and that
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: would have been fixed if they had just communicated. Well, Samantha,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: that was beautiful. Thank you so much for your time
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: today and for coming on. I've really appreciated getting to
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: know you, and I can't wait for the day that
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: you email me and you tell me that you booked
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: that role.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much. Well, I know that you
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: are a brilliant comedy writer, and who knows, maybe one
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: day in the future I will have the great honor
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: to audition for you.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you. Let the listeners know where they can
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: purchase your book and connect with you.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: So, my book Ninety Days to Husband Number two Ten
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: Rules to Find Him is available on Amazon and you
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: can get it in kindle. You can get it in
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: paperback or hardcover like this one, and hopefully soon it
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: will be an app and digital course that I am developing.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: But meanwhile, I do accept private clients at samantha atsocialimage
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: dot net.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: All right, well, thank you so much again for being here,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: and tolerators, you know where to find us. It's men
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: I've tolerated pod on Instagram, Natalie K one two four
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: on TikTok and to all the men I've tolerated before
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: on YouTube in case TikTok goes away.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Natalie.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: No problem, Thank you so much for being here. And remember, tolerators,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: you don't have to smile through anything you're talking tolerating,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: including a lot of societal and biological pressures that make
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: you think that the boundaries and the goals and the
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: desires that you have in a partner don't matter and
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: are easy to push off just to make everyone else happy.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: Smiles are for joy.