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Alex Sarian on the Audacity of Relevance · Arts Unscripted with Monica Holt

0:08
Welcome back to CI to Eye. I'm Monica Holt.
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Today's conversation is with Alex Sarian,
0:14
President and CEO of the Werklund Centre in Calgary, formerly Arts Common.
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He's also the author of the Audacity of Relevance.
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Alex is shepherding one of the most ambitious cultural infrastructure projects
0:26
in Canadian history-a nearly $700 million expansion
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that will create the largest performing arts campus in the country.
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But Alex will tell you that anyone with enough money can build a building.
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The real question is whether people will care when you cut the ribbon.
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So instead of leading with construction plans,
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he led with a fundamental re-imagining of what a performing arts center could
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be, not just for the artists,
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but for the entire city trying to reinvent itself. The result?
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A project that convinced city government this wasn't a cultural investment,
1:00
but a city building imperative.
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As we discuss this large project in Calgary,
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we also talk about why donor fatigue might actually be fatigue with us,
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why programming in a vacuum becomes a business liability,
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and how the humility Alex learned as a theater educator transformed his approach
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to institutional leadership.
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If you're feeling paralyzed by some of the biggest questions facing arts
1:24
organizations today, this conversation offers a path forward.
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Let's dive in.
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Alex Sarian, thank you so much for joining us on CI to Eye today.
1:41
I am so glad to be talking to you.
1:43
Thanks for having me, Monica. I'm excited.
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We love to start every episode kind of getting a little bit of your story and
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really what first drew you into the arts.
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Do you have a defining moment as a kid where you knew the arts were for you?
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There is a story that I am very embarrassed to be sharing.
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So I'm originally Canadian and when I was a very young kid,
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I want to say like five or six,
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my parents took me to go see Phantom of the Opera in Toronto before it
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made the move to Broadway. And I remember at the very end my
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parents turned to me and said, what was your favorite part? And I said to them,
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straight face, I said, the curtain call.
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And they thought I was developing a really weird sense of humor
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as a young person, but when they asked again and probed,
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I was like,
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the fact that the Phantom came out on stage and his face was okay and his face
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was normal,
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the fact that these performers had put on a play and had put on a story
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that blew my mind as a young person,
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the idea that stories could take us on that journey
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and the fact that stories could trick us in a way was this really powerful
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experience that I felt as a young audience member. And in hindsight,
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so much of it makes sense in terms of my passion for young audiences and
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education. And so that was it. That was it.
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Well, glad to hear that. Listen,
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we have a strong love for Andrew Lloyd Weber everything on this podcast these
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days. So speaking of your childhood,
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your kind of trajectory growing up went across cultures and
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continents. As a young person,
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you're experiencing a lot of different cultures as you were growing up in
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different places around the world.
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Can you talk a little bit about how that experience shaped you and how it maybe
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helps determine how you see yourself moving through the world now?
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Yeah, no, I mean that's a really important aspect of who I am and what I do.
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So I mentioned I was born in Canada, but I was raised in Argentina.
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So my entire, from the ages of three to 18,
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I grew up in Buenos Aires and between Argentina and Uruguay.
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And one of the things that really informed that experience for me was,
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culture is not something that you have to pay to play with in countries
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around the world.
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And certainly when you have a culture as strong as Argentinian culture and
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with music and tango and it's just everywhere,
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it's free... And growing up,
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I fell in love with the impact that the arts had on me as a young person.
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Actually, when I moved to New York,
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my original desire was to be a theater teacher and it was such a culture shock
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for me to go to New York for university and realize that a
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cultural mecca like New York City actually doesn't have access to arts and
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culture the way that I grew up with, and felt so counterintuitive.
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So a lot of what I've been doing since is certainly building on my love of
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education and families and access,
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but it's also been trying to counter that initial culture shock of saying,
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how is it possible that a city like this has such a strong paywall for
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participation in arts and culture?
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So that's informed everything I've done since.
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Now obviously I say this having had the privilege of forming
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myself professionally in New York. Almost 20 years there is an incredible gift.
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But when I was at Lincoln Center,
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one of the things that I did a lot was I oversaw international consulting for a
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while and it was so humbling to
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wear that New York City hat or the Lincoln Center hat and then be going into
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different communities around the world and realizing firsthand that
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whatever worked in New York was not going to work in these communities.
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And realizing that what is success is so deeply hyper-local.
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And so I think that to me was a really a series of humbling experiences
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and ultimately it's what opened the door for me to consider leaving New York
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City at some point.
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As you think back on the earlier parts of your career in New York,
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how did your background in arts education frame the way that you move through
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these larger institutional questions today?
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So it does go back to education,
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and one of the things that I think about all the time --
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So any of us that have ever gone through sort of a training in education,
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whether it's because we wanted to be a teacher or a teaching artist,
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the first thing that you're taught is that if a young person is not learning,
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it is rarely their fault.
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And so the idea that if you are an educator or a teacher and you are trying to
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engage folks in a lesson or an experience,
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if they are not receiving the experience the way that you intended,
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you can't blame them.
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And so that humility and that need for responsiveness to me was
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so inherent in my upbringing and in my professional training.
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When I went from the classroom into arts administration,
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I sort of carried that question with me and I said, well, okay,
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if the institution that's trying to engage these young people isn't succeeding,
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we can't blame them. We need to really take a hard look internally and say,
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what could we be doing differently?
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Because ultimately our success is defined by others.
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And that idea, which to me seems so obvious,
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I find shocking how at an institutional level,
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we somehow just shut ourselves off from our ability
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to measure our impact on others and our ability to engage with others.
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So that to me has always been what has brought me into these sort of offices and
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leadership roles is always this desire of saying,
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what does the world need right now that we are uniquely positioned to do as an
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arts organization and always reconcile our mission with what it is
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that others are telling us.
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It's interesting, as you were talking about that,
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it reminds me in your book the Audacity of Relevance.
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One of the things you talk about very early on is this idea that their
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perception is our reality. Right?
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And I want to talk so much about the book in a minute, but before we get there,
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just as means of greater introduction,
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you are the President and CEO of the Werklund Centre,
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which is formerly Arts Common, in Calgary.
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For listeners who might not be as familiar,
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will you just give us a little background on what the Werklund Centre is,
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what makes it unique in Canada's cultural landscape,
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and what you are looking forward to as you are in quite a moment of great
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transformation?
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We certainly are. So Werklund Centre is a performing arts center in Calgary,
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sort of western Canada. We are the third largest arts center in the country,
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and we are home to a variety of really incredible organizations such as
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the Calgary Philharmonic Orchestra, and Theater Calgary,
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Alberta Theater Projects...
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We are home to One Yellow Rabbit and the High Performance Rodeo...
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Some of the most of amazing artists and arts organizations in this country.
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And one of the things that's really exciting right now is that last December
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we broke ground on the largest cultural infrastructure project in Canadian
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history, just shy of $700 million. And by the time we're done,
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we will be the largest performing arts campus in Canada,
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having roughly around 12 performance spaces, indoors, outdoors,
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across a million square feet.
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So it's a pretty remarkable project and expansion story.
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I think it speaks to our city's growth.
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I think it speaks to the repositioning of arts and culture in Canadian
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society. Really a lot of amazing questions are being asked,
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and we have the privilege of answering some of those through this construction
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project, which is certainly keeping me very busy.
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I would imagine more than a little busy.
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And you joined that organization, am I right, in May of 2020?
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That's right.
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I would think that in some ways embarking on an organization in a moment
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of international crisis and then shepherding this
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cultural infrastructure project that was coming on the tail of this global
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crisis,
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balancing all these things while being the new leader of the organization,
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I have to imagine took quite a bit of emotional fortitude in that moment.
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You know what? It actually didn't, and I don't mean to underplay it,
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but when I moved here,
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the possibility or the desire or the ambition of this project had always been
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sort of bubbling under the surface. And I remember when I joined here,
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I said to my board who's incredible, I said to my board,
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'Anybody with enough money can build a building.
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Physical transformation is not transformative.' I said,
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'The real transformation is whether or not communities around us will care about
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it. When we cut the ribbon on this thing,
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will people come?' And so that's not a bricks and mortar exercise,
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that is a philosophical exercise, that is a programmatic exercise.
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And so as part of that, we said,
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what does it mean to be a civic institution that exercises its civic
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responsibility through the lens of arts and culture?
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And what's interesting is that when we reshifted that mandate,
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there's no greater clarity on what your civic responsibility is
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than when the world is falling apart. And so for us,
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the devastation of COVID actually gave us an
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incredibly clear path as to what it is that we could do to make our
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city a better place, to make the world a better place. And yes,
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we were doing it through the lens of our mission statement,
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but it was always in service to something greater.
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When your mandate is civic and the world is falling apart,
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then there is not enough time in the day for you to do what you need to do.
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And yet,
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if you are an organization and all you do is embrace your artistic
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mandate,
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there are so many institutions that I respect and I admire that
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sort of took a backseat and said, well, the world's falling apart.
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Our artistic mandate can really slow down a little bit because the world needs
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to get back up on its feet and then we'll come back. And I was like,
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that was such a missed opportunity for so many arts organizations because if we
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don't think that we are pivotal to the health of our communities,
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then why should our communities feel that way?
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Extremely well put. So even still,
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even as your organization had the clarity of purpose that it had about its
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engagement with community, getting your government partners,
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your private donors, your community groups,
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the wonderful resident companies you mentioned all on board with this shared
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vision for transformation of the Werklund Centre,
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that's really complex and particularly in a time as you allude to
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where this global crisis is ongoing,
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how did you manage that moment of building consensus to move forward with all of
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the external partners?
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So once we were able to articulate that value proposition and validate
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it with the communities that we were hoping to be in service to,
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we were then able to go to the city government and say,
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there is a need for a project like this not to be perceived
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only as a cultural project, but as a city building project.
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And downtown Calgary, like many other downtowns,
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were seeing very low foot traffic, very low economic impact.
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All of the Monday through Friday workers were obviously working from home.
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So there was this deep concern that downtown Calgary was going to be completely
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abandoned for decades. And the city -- and city council,
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in its wisdom, actually said,
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'We're going to put together this downtown revitalization strategy and put
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money behind it.' And the strategy included everything from office to
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residential conversion incentives to tax incentives to funding
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for activations. But one of the greatest investments they made as part of
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that strategy was cultural infrastructure because they recognized
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that when you invest in the infrastructure that people can come to,
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not only does it provide citizens a place to go,
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it also creates a ground zero for economic impact within the downtown core.
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So we were able to take this re-imagined value proposition that was very
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intentionally in service to the city of Calgary, and Calgary --
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who was searching for opportunities to reimagine itself --
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really latched onto it. And so it was never positioned as a cultural project,
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it was positioned as a city building project.
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This is about a city trying to redefine itself and using
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culture as a gathering place.
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That makes complete sense.
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And I think another really interesting point that you've made before,
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but that I'll ask you to reiterate a bit here,
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is that organizations can hold a mission statement and a value proposition
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statement together.
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Those are two separate things that both need to live in the organization.
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Can you talk a little bit about what led you to this idea of holding these two
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statements together and what the difference is if someone wants to dive in and
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say, 'Oh, that makes a lot of sense to me.
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How would I approach creating a value proposition that is different and can be
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held together with my mission statement?'.
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That's a great question.
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So one of the things that I always ask myself and my team,
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and it's a question that has taken years to craft,
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and it's a fairly simple question... The question is,
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'What does the world need right now that we are uniquely positioned to do?' And
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it seems like such a basic question, but when you study it,
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what you're essentially asking is,
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can my mission statement be in service to something of incredible urgency?
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This question of what does the world need right now forces you to look beyond
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the walls of your institution.
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It actually also forces you to look beyond your own mission statement,
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to just have an awareness of what is happening in the world and to actually
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recommit to the world around you.
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That's right. And so that really does bring us to the book itself.
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And I will just say if folks haven't had a chance to read it, please do.
16:20
It'll get you thinking about what the role of arts and cultural organizations
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right now can be, should be, might become.
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You published the Audacity of Relevance last year.
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What was the moment or the experience that first made you think,
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'I need to write this book. I need to write some of this down.'.
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So at first it was the idea of the project.
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The world was gonna start noticing that this massive construction site was going
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to be growing,
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and I really wanted to prevent us from getting to a moment in time where
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all this was was just a shining new building.
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And so it was really important to me to put pen to paper
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and be able to articulate some of the stories that were happening behind the
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scenes. And as I mentioned earlier,
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anybody with enough money can build a building.
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The real question is whether or not people will care.
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And so the transformation is philosophical and programmatic,
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and then the building just becomes the physical manifestation of it all.
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But something else was happening during the pandemic that
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really sort of upped the sense of urgency for me. I'll give you an example.
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In Canada,
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there was this wonderful article written in The Globe and Mail by a wonderful
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journalist named Josh O'Kane,
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and he had written this article about all of the reasons why it would become
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more challenging to run an arts organization post pandemic. And he
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lists all of these really factual things like inflation and
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escalation and consumer behavior and philanthropic trends
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and all of these things that to be honest, and you and I both know this,
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are not new. These are things that have been predating the pandemic for decades.
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And I remember reading that article and getting really frustrated,
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and he and I have had wonderful conversations since,
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but I got really frustrated because nowhere in that article did he articulate
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the need for cultural leadership to navigate our way through this.
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And I remember calling him up and saying, listen,
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all of the things you've outlined are true,
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but they're also true for every sector in the world. I mean,
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I have friends in construction and development and they're struggling with the
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same struggles we are,
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but they're not writing an article about it and essentially blaming everybody
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else but them. And I said,
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so where in this narrative is there room for us as leaders
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to carve a new path forward? And so the book in many ways to me was...
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It's a love letter to the project and it's a love letter to Calgary,
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but it's also a call to action and a manifesto for the arts community
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saying, this is not about pandemic,
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it is about our inability to navigate crises. And it's not new. I mean,
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look at the economic crisis of 2010.
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Time and time again,
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this community has proven that we don't know how to navigate turmoil.
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And I find so sad that those are muscles that have never been
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flexed within our sector.
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Talk to me about the title, the Audacity of Relevance.
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What does that mean to you?
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The title is somewhat of a play on words,
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and the whole point is that striving for relevance should not be an act of
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audacity. It should be a very basic undertaking.
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And I think of the project that we're doing here,
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and hopefully what we're doing here is proof of concept and inspires people
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to realize that it's possible.
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But the only reason we are allowed to
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embark on a project of this magnitude and boldness is because we're building it
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on the assumption that being relevant is the
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bare minimum.
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And I don't think the book is revelatory.
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It's so basic.
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How do we guarantee our institutions will remain relevant
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and in demand for generations to come? Well,
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it's only if we listen to what generations are telling us,
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we're asking others to help define us.
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And you talk about making meaning.
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All we have to do is understand that we are not the ones that are solely
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responsible for creating this meaning. That's all it is.
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And for some reason, that just continues to be hard for us.
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It does. And what I really enjoyed reading about your book is yes, I agree.
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Some of the things in there feel like they should be table stakes and not the
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story on the hill to be telling down, but they're not.
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And acknowledging that they're not and trying to figure out how we get to a
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place that isn't 20 years from now where they are is so important.
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Is there one anecdote or interview or
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example that you called out in the book that you want to just share a little bit
21:07
of a taste of here that you think might pique folks' interest?
21:11
Yeah.
21:11
So the one interview that I constantly think about is in the chapter
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on fundraising,
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I had the incredible privilege of interviewing Asha Curran who oversees Giving
21:21
Tuesday. And Giving Tuesday, for those of you that don't know, I mean,
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I think last year mobilized over $3 billion worth of philanthropy worldwide.
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So if anybody understands the evolution of giving, it's certainly Asha.
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And in conversation with her,
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we talk about this phrase that we like to use in the arts world,
21:41
which is 'donor fatigue.' And certainly I've heard it for decades
21:46
in the halls of cultural institutions saying, we got to be careful.
21:50
There's donor fatigue. You got to figure out a way around it.
21:53
I'm sure anybody listening that works in an arts organization has heard the
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phrase donor fatigue.
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And one of the things that Asha disabused me of was this notion
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that donors are fatigued of giving. And she says to me in this interview,
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people are giving more than ever before.
22:11
Giving is up no matter how you look at it. Sure,
22:14
the trends are evolving and people are giving in very different ways,
22:18
but nobody can look at philanthropy and generosity around the world
22:23
and say people are giving less.
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And so what we arrive at in conversation is this idea that donors are
22:31
not fatigued. Donors are actually inspired to give more than ever before.
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However, if they're not giving to the arts community,
22:40
it's maybe because they're fatigued of us and not of giving. And again,
22:44
it's that --
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how do we become self-aware enough to recognize that it's not a them
22:50
problem, it's an us problem?
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And how do we reconcile the fact that giving is up,
22:56
just not in our world?
22:57
And what do we need to do differently to be a part of that growth?
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And when you look at how giving is evolving, it's healthcare,
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it's education, it's social services.
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If we cannot, as arts institutions or as arts leaders,
23:13
position our work through the lens of civic
23:18
responsibility,
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if we cannot articulate why our work makes a city a better place or the world a
23:23
better place,
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then we are going to be missing out on a lot of this evolution in philanthropy.
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I'm sure a lot of folks have encountered conversations with board members or
23:33
major donors or other arts leaders who have a worry or a
23:38
concern that pursuing relevance means compromising artistic
23:42
traditions. What would you say to someone who feels caught in that dilemma?
23:47
How would you help them work through that?
23:49
So one of the criticisms that has emerged from the book,
23:52
now that it's a year old,
23:54
is the assumption that I am calling for the eradication of the programmer,
23:58
or that I'm calling for the eradication of the artistic director.
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And it's not true. Now, I am calling for the evolution of the programmer,
24:06
and it becomes clear when I articulate it this way:
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if our goal through programming is to surprise and delight
24:15
and exceed the expectations of our audiences,
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what business do we have doing that if we've never known what their expectations
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even are to begin with?
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And so I actually think that the role of the programmer that I am
24:29
wanting is far more challenging than it's ever been before.
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It's this idea that,
24:35
how do we program not in a vacuum but program by understanding what it is that
24:40
communities value?
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And that requires a different programming ethos. And
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again, it's not rocket science because when we do that,
24:51
our ticket sales will go up.
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The other thing that drives me crazy is that we'll have organizations that will
24:56
program something that nobody wants to go see.
25:00
And the first thing we do as institutions is we blame financial barriers.
25:04
And we say, oh, well, nobody's coming to see that show.
25:08
We need to make the tickets affordable or free. And I'm like,
25:11
now we're shooting ourselves in the foot twice.
25:13
We're programming something that nobody wants,
25:16
and now we're giving it away for free. And so we need to --
25:20
as institutions, I think we need to break that cycle.
25:24
And don't get me wrong, financial barrier is important,
25:28
but we need to make sure, first of all,
25:31
that the barrier we are actually breaking is to an
25:36
experience that people actually want.
25:38
Yeah. Well, and I think it's also the financial barrier,
25:42
as we talk about it to the arts,
25:44
is something that exists across a whole season.
25:47
And what is the approach? It is not a, as you were saying,
25:51
a show-by-show pick based on how sales are.
25:56
Either you are committing to financial accessibility for your organization or
26:01
you're not.
26:01
And a discount strategy to help encourage sales is not addressing financial
26:05
accessibility.
26:07
So I agree that confusion can be a thorn in the paw of those observing
26:12
our trends.
26:13
It is. But here's the other thing, and I talk about it in the book.
26:17
In 2022 or 2023, the New York Times coined this phrase fun-flation.
26:22
And what fun-flation tries to describe is this
26:27
trend where people, particularly younger people,
26:32
are literally going into debt to have these cultural social
26:37
experiences. I mean, all I have to do is mention Taylor Swift.
26:41
Exactly.
26:41
That's it. That's it. I mean,
26:42
I have friends in Calgary that spent money they did not have to go to Vancouver
26:48
to see this concert.
26:50
And it's so funny to me how at a time post pandemic that
26:55
people are literally going into debt for these experiences,
26:59
you still have arts institutions that are saying audiences aren't coming back
27:03
fast enough. And I was like, well,
27:06
then let's ask the question,
27:08
'Why aren't they coming?' Because they're going somewhere else just as fast.
27:14
And if they're not coming to us,
27:16
then do we have the wherewithal and do we have the humility to ask
27:21
the question, 'Is it perhaps because of something we're doing or not doing?'.
27:24
There you go. Well, a hundred percent. To your point,
27:30
if audiences are still wanting to gather,
27:32
are still wanting to find joy or entertainment or
27:37
provocation,
27:39
and we're watching them do it everywhere but in our spaces,
27:44
then we aren't delivering on one of the value propositions that we have.
27:48
And that might be the program, that might be the environment,
27:51
that might be any one thing. But for a long time,
27:54
the programs have felt like the precious third rail that can't be touched.
27:58
I think we're now entering a moment where hopefully there is a little bit more
28:03
of a groundswell of support to say that audiences
28:09
can be part of an artistic conversation. If there's someone listening,
28:13
there's an arts executive listening to this, or who reads the book,
28:16
who is feeling inspired by the vision,
28:18
but overwhelmed perhaps about the scale of change needed at their particular
28:22
organization,
28:24
what are a few concrete steps that they could take tomorrow to even
28:29
begin the kind of journey or transformation that we're talking about?
28:34
I think the very first step is looking at the value
28:39
proposition, the philosophical DNA of your institution,
28:44
and being critical of it.
28:45
Being critical of our organizations is the very first step towards making
28:50
change.
28:51
And I find that so many folks that are working within these systems are so
28:56
scared of being critical because the feeling is that, oh,
29:00
if I'm critical, then I'm admitting to failure.
29:05
And I think we need that kind of mentality and approach to leadership where
29:10
we can be wrong and perhaps we already have been wrong.
29:15
And calling that out is not character failure.
29:18
It's actually a sign of strength, I think.
29:21
And so for us to be able to do that personally, but also institutionally,
29:26
I think, is the first step towards recognizing that we need to change
29:32
if we are going to align ourselves with what is potentially being asked of us.
29:37
And I think to myself, of all the organizations that are striving for relevance,
29:41
just think about what awaits you on the other side of that,
29:45
when you have community support and government support
29:50
and audience support and support from the artist community,
29:53
and there's no stopping you once you've achieved that because you're...
29:58
you're not doing it for yourself,
29:59
you're doing it on behalf of others and with others,
30:02
and that's the greatest feeling ever.
30:06
So as you think about arts organizations evolving over the next decade or two,
30:10
what would you imagine the sector looks like 20 years from now in your wildest
30:15
hopes and dreams?
30:17
This is going to sound super weird, but I think we're looking at a sector in 10,
30:21
20 years where we may even have fewer organizations or more
30:26
organizations partnering together.
30:28
Because all of a sudden when you ask the question,
30:32
'What does the world need right now that we are uniquely positioned to do?',
30:36
grappling with the answer to that question will force organizations to either
30:40
say, we've achieved our mission, we did what we set out to do,
30:45
and then that's an amazing legacy to leave behind.
30:49
Or we're going to see organizations whose mission statements are evolving to be
30:52
more in service to community.
30:54
We might see more organizations partnering together, not because they have to,
30:59
but because they want to. And as you --
31:02
I think part of the reason we struggle as a sector to partner is a direct
31:07
result of the fact that we are not looking at something greater than ourselves.
31:10
Because when you look at something greater than yourselves,
31:13
then you should be able to come together and say, okay,
31:16
if our goal is to be in service to that community,
31:19
how can we work better together so that we're doing that to their benefit?
31:24
And the other thing I'll finish by answering:
31:27
I also hope that in 10 to 20 years,
31:31
the artistry being produced and presented is bolder and braver.
31:36
The experiences that we are having in these spaces are far more vibrant
31:41
than I think the average experience is.
31:44
And I think that's something really exciting to look forward to.
31:48
That speaks to the hope that we also need. Right? All right. Well,
31:52
we have hit our quickfire culture section.
31:55
What is one piece of culture that you are obsessed with right now?
31:59
I am currently obsessed with prompt engineering in the AI
32:04
world.
32:05
Okay, let's get into it.
32:08
Actually not -- I don't approach it from a fascination towards AI.
32:12
I actually approach it towards a fascination of learning how to ask better
32:17
questions.
32:19
So the whole point of prompt engineering is saying,
32:23
AI could actually be to your benefit if you know what questions to ask it and
32:27
how to ask it questions. And I find that to be -- a,
32:32
I think it's hopeful because of all this anxiety around AI,
32:36
knowing that you are still in charge, I find very hopeful,
32:41
but I find that it also, I mean,
32:44
what a great lesson for us as people to learn how to ask better questions and
32:49
think about what a better world this would be, AI or not,
32:52
if we knew how to shape our curiosity better.
32:57
I love that framing. If you could go back in time,
33:01
what is one performance that you would've loved to be present at?
33:06
I mean, Phantom of the Opera, I could check that box.
33:09
For some reason right now with Ragtime coming back to Lincoln Center Theater,
33:12
part of me really wishes I could have gone to the original Broadway
33:17
production of Ragtime,
33:19
and I don't know that anybody would've anticipated how relevant that show
33:24
would be in 2025.
33:27
Yeah, I love Ragtime.
33:30
It's the role Joshua Henry was born to revive, but man,
33:35
in some ways I wish it wasn't as relevant as it really is.
33:38
Yeah.
33:39
What is one free resource, any field,
33:42
that you think everyone should check out or avail themselves of?
33:47
I've been thinking about this question a lot,
33:49
and I don't know if I'm going to be answering the question exactly as prompted,
33:53
but when we think about the biases that we carry,
33:56
research resources that would challenge
34:01
your bias.
34:04
How can we use resources and how can we use technology in the
34:08
privacy and the intimacy of our own thought process to
34:13
challenge ourselves? I'm not asking for us to change our minds.
34:16
I'm not asking for us to...
34:18
But can we use resources that are not going to reinforce
34:23
our held beliefs? But rather, can we,
34:27
in the same way we're talking about institutions challenging themselves and
34:30
realizing that you're not a failure for having gotten something wrong,
34:35
do we have the ability as people to say, 'Huh,
34:40
I'm going to do some research and see if the belief that I hold onto is actually
34:46
grounded in stuff other than my own upbringing'? And listen,
34:50
one of two things will happen.
34:52
You go through that discovery process and you might come out the other end being
34:57
completely validated and reinforced,
34:59
or you realize that there's more than two realities,
35:04
and the world might be a little bit more complicated than we make it out to be.
35:09
Well, that brings us to your CI to Eye moment.
35:13
So if you could broadcast one message to executive directors,
35:18
leadership teams and staff and boards of thousands of arts
35:22
organizations, what would that message today be?
35:26
What I notice most of all is I think organizations,
35:29
they become paralyzed when they don't have answers to these very big,
35:33
very big questions and existential questions.
35:35
And one of the things that I find very liberating
35:40
in terms of thinking through this idea of relevance and community is
35:45
that the answers are out there and there are communities and
35:50
audiences that are dying to tell you what the answer to your question is.
35:56
It may not always be the right answer,
35:57
but instead of thinking that the existential weight of these institutions
36:03
lies on your shoulders alone,
36:05
there is a really wonderful freedom in saying,
36:09
we can lean into the messiness of dialogue and into the messiness of
36:13
collaboration.
36:15
And so that's what I would leave folks with is when you feel that weight,
36:19
that paralyzing weight of not knowing what way to go,
36:24
know that you don't have to go it alone. And in fact,
36:27
you should never have to go it alone. And if you're going at it alone,
36:30
you're probably doing something wrong.
36:32
And that there are others out there that want to see you
36:36
succeed and that recognize that your success is their success,
36:40
and that if you just open yourselves up to that possibility,
36:44
that is when I think our institutions and we as leaders start to
36:48
thrive.
36:50
The messiness of collaboration. Let's all lean into that. Thank you, Alex.
36:55
Thank you for your time today.
36:56
Thank you for this wonderful manifesto and book that we can all
37:01
kind of chart with us. I definitely recommend everyone checks it out,
37:04
and I can't wait to talk more soon.
37:07
Absolutely. Thank you, Monica.
37:08
Thank you.
37:22
Thank you for listening to CI to Eye with Monica Holt.
37:25
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37:27
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37:29
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and I wouldn't want you to miss them.
37:45
This episode was edited and produced by Karen McConarty and co-written by
37:49
Karen McConarty and myself, Monica Holt.
37:52
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37:57
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