Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / The TRUTH About Strength and Muscle Loss During a Cut | Ep 212

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The TRUTH About Strength and Muscle Loss During a Cut | Ep 212 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:01
  Philip Pape: If you're a dedicated lifter who's been hitting the gym hard, progressing your lifts and watching those numbers climb, and you're now gearing up for a cut to reveal all that hard-earned muscle, but you're worried about losing strength and size in the process, this episode is for you.
• 0:14
  Philip Pape: Today, I'm going to break down the truth about strength and muscle loss during a cut.
• 0:19
  Philip Pape: We'll explore what's really happening to your body when you enter a calorie deficit and why those numbers on the bar might be dropping, even if you're not losing much muscle.
• 0:31
  Philip Pape: When you understand the science behind cutting, you can approach it with confidence, knowing how to preserve your gains while shedding fat.
• 0:34
  Philip Pape: And the best part is that most of the strength loss you experience is temporary and easily regained once you return to maintenance calories.
• 0:42
  Philip Pape: So if you've been hesitant to start a cut because you're afraid of losing your hard-earned progress, what I'm about to share will give you the knowledge you need to lean out effectively without sacrificing your long-term strength and muscle goals.
• 0:54
  Philip Pape: Get ready to demystify the cutting process and learn how to get shredded while holding on to your gains.
• 1:00
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the podcast that blends evidence and engineering to help you build smart, efficient systems to achieve your dream physique.
• 1:13
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, philip Pape, and today we are tackling a perennial question on the mind of every lifter who goes through a fat loss phase what really happens to your strength and muscle during a cut?
• 1:24
  Philip Pape: Now, this topic comes straight from one of my longtime clients and listeners, heather C, who was also on the podcast.
• 1:31
  Philip Pape: Back in episode 51, which I'll also link in the show notes, she wrote quote we all talk about the possibility of losing muscle when we're on a cut, but what about losing strength simply because you are losing mass?
• 1:44
  Philip Pape: Do we have any information on what to expect for that?
• 1:48
  Philip Pape: So, heather, this is a great question, because she is asking specifically about strength, which you will learn about today.
• 1:55
  Philip Pape: But strength and muscle go hand in hand, so I've decided to address both, to give you the full picture and this is one of the most common concerns I've heard from clients and listeners, and today we are going to break it down and give you the real scoop on what's happening to your body during that cut.
• 2:10
  Philip Pape: Now, before we dive in, I've got a quick favor to ask If you've ever gotten any value from this podcast and you haven't already.
• 2:17
  Philip Pape: Please take a moment to leave us a five-star rating in the app you're using right now to listen to my voice and, if you're feeling generous, a brief review about what you've learned or how the show has helped you.
• 2:28
  Philip Pape: It just takes a few seconds, but it makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from this information.
• 2:35
  Philip Pape: Plus, it lets me know what content you find most valuable so I can keep delivering the goods.
• 2:40
  Philip Pape: So go ahead, pause this episode for a moment and leave that rating and review and I'll be here when you get back.
• 2:49
  Philip Pape: All right, let's get into it.
• 2:50
  Philip Pape: So let's start by breaking down Heather's question into three key parts Number one, what happens to muscle during a cut.
• 2:54
  Philip Pape: Number two, what happens to strength during a cut.
• 2:57
  Philip Pape: And number three, how much of the strength loss is due to actual muscle loss versus other factors?
• 3:03
  Philip Pape: So first up, let's talk about muscle loss, because usually this is what people are concerned about and we do want to understand that, to also understand the strength.
• 3:13
  Philip Pape: They go hand in hand.
• 3:15
  Philip Pape: The reality is that when you are in a calorie deficit, your body is craving, it is looking for energy sources.
• 3:22
  Philip Pape: It's like what are you doing to me?
• 3:23
  Philip Pape: Go out and eat, go out and sleep whatever energy it can get and it wants to hold onto the muscle because the muscle is metabolically expensive and it takes a lot of energy to maintain.
• 3:35
  Philip Pape: But if you're not careful, your body's going to start breaking down some of that muscle tissue as fuel.
• 3:42
  Philip Pape: So in other words, it's very interesting because once you've put on the muscle, it's not going to be lost as easy as you think.
• 3:49
  Philip Pape: Right, it's not like it just falls off.
• 3:52
  Philip Pape: Now.
• 3:52
  Philip Pape: If you don't train, it will definitely atrophy, but that can happen even when you're not in a diet.
• 3:56
  Philip Pape: So I'm going to assume that if you're listening to this, you know the importance of continuing to train, even when you're a cut.
• 4:02
  Philip Pape: And once you've put on that expensive tissue, your body you know it kind of is in a new set point where it has that muscle but it needs the energy to maintain it.
• 4:11
  Philip Pape: So there's definitely a fine balance there.
• 4:13
  Philip Pape: When we're in a calorie deficit, the good news is that if your nutrition and training is more or less on point, with a lot of leeway, muscle loss during a cut is usually pretty minimal, even if you're going more aggressively on your cut than we've said is doable.
• 4:28
  Philip Pape: According to the evidence, even when you go a little more aggressive than that, you're not going to really lose much muscle unless the aggressiveness is really high or the cut is really long or some other factors.
• 4:39
  Philip Pape: So I would say generally, what I've seen with clients and what we've seen in the evidence is that at most okay, at most 10% of your muscle, maybe 5%.
• 4:52
  Philip Pape: For most people it's 1% If you're going at a moderate fat loss phase of the loss is muscle.
• 5:00
  Philip Pape: Now, that's of the amount being lost, not of your total muscle or of your body weight or anything like that.
• 5:07
  Philip Pape: People who do not strength train, when they lose weight, they're losing a quarter to a half as muscle and oftentimes that's in a form of a crash diet, in which case they're accelerating the muscle loss even further.
• 5:19
  Philip Pape: I have seen typical people following a proper nutrition plan and training lose almost negligible amounts of muscle, and if they lose a little bit more than that, it's usually the total lean mass.
• 5:31
  Philip Pape: That also includes fluid, and then when they gain the weight back, the muscle, that lean mass comes right back.
• 5:36
  Philip Pape: So very little of its muscle, just to assure you.
• 5:40
  Philip Pape: And if you are a newer lifter or if you have a lot more body fat to lose, you might even gain some muscle while you cut.
• 5:46
  Philip Pape: All right, so that's all I'm going to say about muscle today, cause I actually did want to make it more about strength.
• 5:51
  Philip Pape: But the conclusion, the long story short there is train, eat your protein right, don't go too extreme, and you're probably going to hold on to most of your muscle.
• 6:00
  Philip Pape: Some of you may even gain a little bit.
• 6:02
  Philip Pape: It is not that big of a worry.
• 6:04
  Philip Pape: If you're doing it the right way and if you track your numbers, you can kind of see what's happening.
• 6:08
  Philip Pape: Okay, let's talk about strength, because this is really what I wanted to focus the episode on, and this is where things get interesting, because we don't talk about this a lot.
• 6:16
  Philip Pape: You might notice your lifts start to stall or regress, you know, go down during a cut, even if you're not losing much muscle.
• 6:29
  Philip Pape: So I often put it this way you start to lose strength before you lose muscle.
• 6:32
  Philip Pape: From just a simplistic point of view, a very reductionist point of view, and there's a few factors at play for this.
• 6:39
  Philip Pape: The first one is neural efficiency or neuromuscular adaptation.
• 6:44
  Philip Pape: When you're in a calorie deficit, your body is just not as efficient at recruiting muscle fibers.
• 6:51
  Philip Pape: You don't have the energy, and this can lead to a temporary reduction in strength, whether you call it real strength or perceived strength.
• 6:59
  Philip Pape: You're just not as efficient even when you have the same amount of muscle mass.
• 7:04
  Philip Pape: So just be aware of that.
• 7:06
  Philip Pape: It's a temporary thing.
• 7:08
  Philip Pape: The second factor is that your leverages change.
• 7:11
  Philip Pape: Your leverage on certain lifts can change, especially in the big lifts that many of us are doing now.
• 7:16
  Philip Pape: You know the power lifting lifts, the big lifts, bench press, squat, deadlift, press Well, the press less.
• 7:23
  Philip Pape: So you might find that your technique may not give you the optimal output it normally does.
• 7:29
  Philip Pape: And I was going to say your technique needs to change, needs to adjust as your body composition changes.
• 7:33
  Philip Pape: It depends on how much it's changing.
• 7:35
  Philip Pape: I would say this is somewhat of a natural process.
• 7:38
  Philip Pape: You should always be working on your technique to the day you die, basically, and if things start to feel a little different, you'll know it if you're very in tune with it and you're listening to your body as you do that squat.
• 7:50
  Philip Pape: The third factor here is the energy in general, like when you're eating less, you just have less fuel in the tank.
• 7:55
  Philip Pape: You have less glycogen, you're eating fewer carbs, right, and this will impact your performance in the gym and it will especially impact it on the bigger lifts where strength is expressed and therefore you have technically less strength, less force production.
• 8:10
  Philip Pape: And then, kind of related to this, the fourth factor is glycogen depletion, because when you're in a deficit, your body simply stores less glycogen overall in your muscle.
• 8:20
  Philip Pape: Not only are you not able to restore it, you simply deplete a smaller amount, which also affects your strength and endurance during the workouts.
• 8:28
  Philip Pape: Like you ever feel drained, right, you're during fat loss, you just feel a little more tired, a little more sluggish.
• 8:32
  Philip Pape: Maybe you do get the lifts, but it's like you get wiped out more easily, which is part of the reason why we sometimes try to get creative during a fat loss phase and shift the calories a bit, shift the carbs a bit.
• 8:43
  Philip Pape: You know, make sure that we are really fueled up for our workouts and not trying to train fasted, those kinds of things.
• 8:48
  Philip Pape: So basically, to answer Heather's question directly yes, you can lose some strength simply by losing mass, even if you're not losing muscle.
• 9:00
  Philip Pape: But most of this strength loss is temporary and then it can be regained quickly once you return to maintenance calories or a slight surplus.
• 9:10
  Philip Pape: Now, one last thing that actually addresses what she already acknowledged is that because you're losing mass, your absolute strength declines.
• 9:18
  Philip Pape: Right, you have less mass, less force production, less cross-sectional area, all of that.
• 9:23
  Philip Pape: But?
• 9:24
  Philip Pape: But if your lifts merely stall out or even regress just a tiny bit, if you divide that load by your weight, you might find that your relative strength has maintained the same, has maintained or increased.
• 9:42
  Philip Pape: Make sense, like so, your relative strength.
• 9:43
  Philip Pape: If you want to know more about that, go listen to my podcast.
• 9:45
  Philip Pape: It has the phrase scaling laws.
• 9:47
  Philip Pape: It's one of the Wednesday podcasts I did not too long ago.
• 9:49
  Philip Pape: I'm going to try to remember to include it in the show notes.
• 9:52
  Philip Pape: It's about scaling laws and how relative strength is often more important than absolute strength and why that's important during fat loss.
• 10:00
  Philip Pape: Now let's talk about what you can expect and how to minimize the strength loss.
• 10:05
  Philip Pape: Okay, because as much as we can say, well, it happens.
• 10:09
  Philip Pape: Great, I'm doing all the things.
• 10:11
  Philip Pape: So what?
• 10:11
  Philip Pape: There are things we want to do.
• 10:13
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 10:14
  Philip Pape: There's five things in particular I'm going to mention today.
• 10:16
  Philip Pape: Number one training intensity.
• 10:22
  Philip Pape: Maintain the training intensity.
• 10:23
  Philip Pape: By intensity I mean the load on the bar.
• 10:24
  Philip Pape: Keep lifting heavy.
• 10:25
  Philip Pape: A lot of people think during fat loss, you need to switch to high reps and high volume, right, and burn a bunch of calories.
• 10:30
  Philip Pape: No, no, no.
• 10:32
  Philip Pape: This is one of the almost shocking revelations I had when I started lifting.
• 10:36
  Philip Pape: You know, with compound lifts and for strength, I realized, and I learned from the best out there, that you know you might want to reduce volume and sets and reps, but you want to keep the weight on the bar pretty high.
• 10:48
  Philip Pape: You know it doesn't have to be one arms or, or definitely not PRS, but it is going to be a decent percentage of your max to maintain that strength.
• 10:57
  Philip Pape: Now can you do a bodybuilding type program and maintain strength?
• 11:00
  Philip Pape: Absolutely, okay, absolutely, you can.
• 11:02
  Philip Pape: You can, as long as you're training hard and close to failure right, and you are progressing.
• 11:09
  Philip Pape: You're still from your body's perspective, you're still recruiting significant amount of muscle mass and giving yourself the right signal.
• 11:16
  Philip Pape: But I like to say keep lifting heavy, because a lot of people will go way to the extreme in the other direction.
• 11:23
  Philip Pape: Okay, number two protein, protein, protein, protein.
• 11:25
  Philip Pape: Whether you're a new listener or you've listened to my last 300 episodes, it can never be said too often that you have to eat sufficient protein If you're going to be lifting weights, if you want to build muscle, if you want to maintain muscle and just really have a great life.
• 11:38
  Philip Pape: So we've got to eat protein, and I'm going to give you the range again it is 0.7 to 1 gram per pound of protein, per pound of body weight, per pound of target body weight, but just simplify it as up to 1 gram.
• 11:52
  Philip Pape: Now you might have heard a lot of recent research or podcasters talk about how, in reality, you know something as low as 0.6,.
• 11:59
  Philip Pape: 0.7 is probably enough for most people, and that's that's true.
• 12:02
  Philip Pape: I like the stretch goal of one because a lot of people struggle to get enough in general and it kind of pushes you well past that minimum plus protein keeps you full.
• 12:12
  Philip Pape: There's a lot of side reasons to have more protein, but it's not that you have to.
• 12:16
  Philip Pape: Okay, get at least around 0.7 grams per pound and you're good.
• 12:20
  Philip Pape: Hey, this is Philip and I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits and Weights.
• 12:24
  Philip Pape: I started Wits and Weights to help ambitious individuals in their 30s, 40s and beyond who want to build muscle, lose fat and finally look like they lift.
• 12:33
  Philip Pape: I've noticed that when people transform their physique, they not only look and feel better, but they also experience incredible changes in their health, confidence and overall quality of life.
• 12:44
  Philip Pape: If you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same thing to build your ultimate physique and unlock your full potential, whether you're just starting out or looking to take your progress to the next level.
• 12:56
  Philip Pape: That's why I created Wits and Weights Physique University, a semi-private group coaching experience designed to help you achieve your best physique ever.
• 13:05
  Philip Pape: With a personalized, done-for-you nutrition plan, custom-designed courses, new workout programs each month, live coaching calls and a supportive community, you'll have access to everything you need to succeed.
• 13:18
  Philip Pape: If you're ready to shatter your plateaus and transform your body and life, head over to witsandweightscom slash physique or click the link in the show notes to enroll today.
• 13:28
  Philip Pape: Again, that's witsandweightscom slash physique.
• 13:31
  Philip Pape: I can't wait to welcome you to the community and help you become the strongest, leanest and healthiest version of yourself.
• 13:38
  Philip Pape: Now back to the show.
• 13:41
  Philip Pape: Number three is you never want to cut too aggressively.
• 13:46
  Philip Pape: If muscle loss is a concern, or at least do it for too long of a period, all right.
• 13:53
  Philip Pape: The range we talk about is quarter to 1% of your body weight a week.
• 13:59
  Philip Pape: The 1% is kind of the controversial one, because a bigger person with a higher metabolism has a lot of muscle.
• 14:07
  Philip Pape: Who's lifted for years can probably handle 1.25% a week for a while, but after a while it will start to catch up with them.
• 14:16
  Philip Pape: Somebody with a lower metabolism who maybe is an intermediate trainee not as much weight, not as much muscle.
• 14:21
  Philip Pape: 1% is probably as much as they're going to push it before.
• 14:25
  Philip Pape: It just tanks your performance, accelerates muscle loss.
• 14:27
  Philip Pape: It's not sustainable, all of those things.
• 14:29
  Philip Pape: So for most people when they're in a fat loss phase, I'm going to recommend a half to 0.75% of your body weight a week.
• 14:38
  Philip Pape: Very simple.
• 14:38
  Philip Pape: Push it to one if you want.
• 14:40
  Philip Pape: And if you're in a special case or you're working with a coach, like if you're working with me and it makes sense to go more aggressive, which I've done many times with clients where everything is in control, everything is precise and you know, accounted for and go for it right.
• 14:53
  Philip Pape: If it works, all right.
• 14:54
  Philip Pape: Number four the fourth thing you can do here is reset your expectations, and this is based on the stuff I talked about earlier today, as well as that scaling laws episode.
• 15:06
  Philip Pape: It is totally normal to get some reduction in your lifts when you get leaner and during fat loss.
• 15:10
  Philip Pape: So both reasons, like being in fat loss but also being leaner, don't panic, it's normal.
• 15:16
  Philip Pape: Focus on relative strength, right Strength in relation to your body weight instead of absolute numbers.
• 15:22
  Philip Pape: And then the last thing here is recovery, recovery, recovery.
• 15:27
  Philip Pape: When you're in a deficit, your recovery capacity is massively reduced and for those older folks like me we're in our 40s, 50s and beyond it's reduced even further.
• 15:36
  Philip Pape: So you've got to get enough sleep, got to manage that stress.
• 15:43
  Philip Pape: You've got to have the right frequency of your lifting sessions where you're not just overtraining or overreaching, not doing a ton of cardio where it doesn't make sense.
• 15:49
  Philip Pape: Pay attention to recovery and listen to your body, all right.
• 15:52
  Philip Pape: So the last thing I want to talk about here is something that might surprise you, and that is that if you do focus on maintaining absolute strength, like PRs during a cut, this can backfire.
• 16:04
  Philip Pape: This can be very counterproductive in multiple, multiple ways, tied into many of the things we just talked about.
• 16:10
  Philip Pape: So let's take a hypothetical dude named Mark.
• 16:12
  Philip Pape: All right, mark's a big guy, he's pretty strong, he's a lifetime lifter and he's in his fifties.
• 16:19
  Philip Pape: Okay, actually quite common for my clientele.
• 16:22
  Philip Pape: The other part of my clients are women in peri-postmenopause.
• 16:26
  Philip Pape: So two very common populations I work with.
• 16:29
  Philip Pape: And he's pretty strong, he can bench press, you know, three plates, 315.
• 16:34
  Philip Pape: And he wants to stay there even during his.
• 16:36
  Philip Pape: He psychs himself up, he loads the bar.
• 16:43
  Philip Pape: He's really good at doing the thing, training hard, and so he grinds out these really ugly reps just to hit the number.
• 16:53
  Philip Pape: Now, if you can't tell that, I'm speaking from personal experience, I am as well.
• 16:56
  Philip Pape: Okay, and it's gotten me in trouble and I've seen it with other lifters who send me videos.
• 17:00
  Philip Pape: I'm like dude, this is not what we mean by a max.
• 17:05
  Philip Pape: I mean it is a true max, but not what we want during fat loss.
• 17:08
  Philip Pape: And so he's trying to get a new PR, even while losing weight and being in a deficit.
• 17:14
  Philip Pape: And I'm talking like arm shaking, bar tilting, the whole thing.
• 17:18
  Philip Pape: And the problem is Mark is probably losing muscle by doing this.
• 17:22
  Philip Pape: Why is that?
• 17:23
  Philip Pape: Because he's so focused on hitting a PR, he's neglecting his form and he's overreaching.
• 17:31
  Philip Pape: And when you overreach like that, not only are you putting a lot of stress on your tendons, your connective tissue, especially for an older person, but you're doing it in a state of poor recovery, low glycogen.
• 17:42
  Philip Pape: This is going to smash your recovery.
• 17:44
  Philip Pape: It's going to give you a high level of fatigue that is far beyond the trade-off we want for the recovery and the growth you get out of it, because you're actually not going to get growth.
• 17:53
  Philip Pape: You don't have the recovery capacity.
• 17:55
  Philip Pape: You also increase your injury risk, especially for shoulders on the bench, all right at that level, especially when you see all the shaking going on and that is going to stall your progress, because now you're going to regress, probably, or you might get injured I'm not going to say you're going to get injured, but you're going to feel it and you might then experience muscle loss because the totality of your progress during the phase is not there, like it would be if you had taken a just slightly more intelligent, moderate approach.
• 18:25
  Philip Pape: That's still training hard and pushing, and so I would recommend, in this case, using an auto-regulated style of training program.
• 18:34
  Philip Pape: Okay, now I'm speaking to all of you who love pushing PRs.
• 18:37
  Philip Pape: I'm not speaking to those who are already doing physique type programs, which lend themselves very well to a fat loss phase by default.
• 18:45
  Philip Pape: I'm speaking for people who are more strength focused or power building and they're pushing for one rep maxes or pushing for PRs.
• 18:51
  Philip Pape: With an auto-regulated program, you can push for your max relative to today and your capacity, but not to your all time right, because this relative strength is the important thing.
• 19:06
  Philip Pape: Your absolute strength might be dropping, you're losing body mass.
• 19:10
  Philip Pape: You're a different person with different amount of energy coming in and you want to recalibrate to how much you can lift in relation to your new, leaner body weight and lower energy capacity.
• 19:22
  Philip Pape: So if you can auto-regulate, if you can do a program that has rep ranges, for example, or a session-based RPE or 1RM, not an all-time-based or a cycle-based 1RM, just whatever you can hit today and you don't overreach, the 1RM is achievable and feels like, if you guys know RPE, it feels like an eight or nine RPE and not a nine and a half or 10 RPE.
• 19:49
  Philip Pape: Then your absolute strength probably is not going to decrease not very much at all, and your relative strength might actually improve.
• 19:57
  Philip Pape: And then when you go back to maintenance calories, you're going to quickly surpass those old numbers.
• 20:00
  Philip Pape: I see it time and again this bounce back where, like you did a really good job being intelligent during fat loss, and then when you're done and you come back, like the numbers come back quickly and then they start to grow even further.
• 20:12
  Philip Pape: It's pretty incredible.
• 20:14
  Philip Pape: So the lesson here don't let your ego dictate your training during a cut or really ever focus on quality reps.
• 20:23
  Philip Pape: Listen to your body, trust the process, the process.
• 20:27
  Philip Pape: If you're not sure what the process is reach out to me, we can go over the process for you and if you do that, your muscles and your joints, us older folks come on.
• 20:36
  Philip Pape: A lot of you are listening.
• 20:37
  Philip Pape: I know they're going to thank you for it.
• 20:39
  Philip Pape: They're going to thank you for it and you're going to maintain your strength and your muscle and your connective tissue, health and your sanity All right.
• 20:46
  Philip Pape: As we wrap up, let's recap the key points for you guys.
• 20:48
  Philip Pape: Number one muscle loss during a cut is minimized with proper nutrition that's protein, and training that's training hard.
• 20:56
  Philip Pape: Whatever your program is training hard, keep the intensity up.
• 20:59
  Philip Pape: Number two strength loss during a cut is more often about the neuroefficiency, the change in your leverage, the low energy availability, than actual muscle loss.
• 21:09
  Philip Pape: Number three most strength loss during a cut is temporary and you're going to regain it very quickly.
• 21:15
  Philip Pape: Number four focus on keeping the intensity high, the bar, the weight on the bar high, prioritizing your protein that needs to be high during a fat loss phase and then managing recovery.
• 21:25
  Philip Pape: And then, number five, don't obsess over numbers.
• 21:28
  Philip Pape: Look at the relative strength you have, which, granted, can be reduced to a number still if you'd like to go that route, but think of it in terms of form and pushing and training hard and progressing rather than ego lifting.
• 21:42
  Philip Pape: All right, cutting is temporary.
• 21:44
  Philip Pape: Remember, we're not supposed to be cutting for years and years and years.
• 21:47
  Philip Pape: You cut for a few weeks, you know.
• 21:49
  Philip Pape: You cut for maybe 8, 12, 16 weeks, maybe a little longer, the first time you do it and your goal is to preserve as much muscle and strength as possible.
• 21:57
  Philip Pape: Why so that what you lose is fat and not muscle.
• 22:02
  Philip Pape: That's it.
• 22:03
  Philip Pape: Let the other 95 plus percent of people out in the world who don't have a clue what they're doing or, more correctly, they might, but they're not willing to put in the work like you are, okay, or they haven't found this podcast, or they haven't, you know.
• 22:14
  Philip Pape: Send them here, share the podcast so they understand the importance of body composition and not just scale weight.
• 22:20
  Philip Pape: We're trying to just lose fat, right, and so when you're in a cut, you're not trying to set PRs.
• 22:25
  Philip Pape: That's not the goal, right?
• 22:27
  Philip Pape: That's what your building phases are for, okay.
• 22:29
  Philip Pape: So I get passionate about this stuff, heather and everyone else out there who are worried about losing gains during a cut.
• 22:35
  Philip Pape: You are good.
• 22:36
  Philip Pape: You have a smart training and nutrition approach.
• 22:39
  Philip Pape: Like we discussed on this show, you can absolutely get lean while holding onto your hard-earned muscle and strength.
• 22:44
  Philip Pape: Focus on the things that do get better.
• 22:46
  Philip Pape: For example, you might be able to do more pull-ups because you're lighter.
• 22:49
  Philip Pape: Just think about it.
• 22:50
  Philip Pape: And when you transition back to maintenance or even a building phase, then you'll be primed in a fantastic way to push those numbers even higher.
• 22:58
  Philip Pape: All right, that's it for today.
• 23:00
  Philip Pape: If you found value in the episode, I do have one last request.
• 23:04
  Philip Pape: Just stick around for a second.
• 23:05
  Philip Pape: I really hope that you would take a moment to leave a rating and review for the show, even if it's just a rating.
• 23:10
  Philip Pape: Your feedback does help others find the podcast, but I think, more importantly, for your benefit, it helps me create content that serves your needs.
• 23:19
  Philip Pape: When I see a review hopefully a five-star review, although lower stars will still give me feedback, but I hope it's a five-star review and you're specific as to how it helped you, or even the things that you wish to hear more of.
• 23:31
  Philip Pape: I listen to that, I look at those and I come up with topics based around those.
• 23:34
  Philip Pape: So, whether it's on Apple, spotify, wherever you're listening, take a few seconds to leave that five-star rating and maybe a quick comment about what you've learned today, and that would mean the world to me.
• 23:44
  Philip Pape: It would help us continue to grow this community of smart, efficient lifters.
• 23:49
  Philip Pape: All right.
• 23:49
  Philip Pape: Until next time, keep using your wits lifting those weights and remember a temporary dip in those numbers does not always mean you're losing progress.
• 23:57
  Philip Pape: It's all part of the process and the journey to your best physique.
• 24:01
  Philip Pape: This is Philip Pape and you've been listening to Wits and Weights.
• 24:04
  Philip Pape: I'll talk to you next time.