Latest / Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan / The Customer Experience Lessons Behind Tesla and BMW, with Frank Ziede

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The Customer Experience Lessons Behind Tesla and BMW, with Frank Ziede · Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan

0:00
Man, it was fun doing like research on you, I tell you
0:02
what. Well.
0:03
What are we talking? About there's there's a lot to
0:05
talk about today, man. Like you guys are in for a
0:07
treat. So here's how I want to start
0:09
because there's a lot of places we can go, OK?
0:11
You've trained companies like Tesla, BMW, Rolls Royce.
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You started in retail at age 19, worked your way up from the
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floor to the board boardroom. You're an accomplished filmmaker
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and you claim Gen. Z is the hardest working
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generation. Got some pushback for that, but
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yeah, we're. Definitely going to talk about
0:32
that. Yeah.
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Yeah. So Frank Ziti pronounced that
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right. You did.
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CEO of Common Ground Consulting. Welcome to the founder.
0:41
Talk Thanks man podcast. It's a pleasure.
0:43
Yeah, good to have you here, man.
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So let's talk about this first. I think when I hear the words,
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you know, you've coached Tesla, BMW and Rolls Royce on how to
0:52
create better customer experience.
0:53
Yeah. What problems did they bring you
0:56
in to help solve for? I mean, the heart of what we're
0:59
brought in for most of the time in any training capacity,
1:02
there's always this content side, there's always the stuff
1:05
like the inanimate object in the car and how is it?
1:08
How does it work? But there's also the, the human
1:11
side, the interpersonal skills side, you know, customer
1:14
experience, employee experience, leadership skill sets.
1:17
And that's, I started my career in the first maybe 40% on the
1:21
product side, but then it shifted to the person side.
1:25
And that's been the last, you know, 18 years, I don't know,
1:29
something along those lines. So that's, that's what our we're
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always trying to solve is how do we generate great employees who
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make an experience come to life. You kind of realize as you go
1:39
through the product stuff, the process stuff, everything else,
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that it really comes down to people anyways.
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Yeah, and those things are necessary.
1:45
Let's because you can't, you like, you could be the nicest
1:47
employee and be so super sweet, but if you don't know anything
1:51
about the product, you're like, you're really nice.
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Can I talk to somebody who knows what the hell they're doing?
1:55
So, but a lot of people think that on the scale, this
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inanimate object stuff is the most important thing and it is
2:01
crucial. You have to have it, but it's
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sort of the price of emission. The people stuff is what
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everybody's looking for. So what specifically would they
2:08
bring you in? What would they tell you?
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Hey, we've got this problem? Like what was a common theme?
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I don't know if it's a specific problem, but they're always
2:15
looking for continuing education, always looking for
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ways to keep giving their employees and an ever changing
2:21
Automotive World more and more information, but at the same
2:25
time keeping them up to date on like, I just have this
2:28
conversation with a couple of friends in the last couple of
2:30
weeks about what is luxury? And if you ask a 20 year old,
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what is luxury and a 70 year old what's luxury?
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2 very different definitions. And so we're, we're trying to,
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we're trying to create a 20 year old with 20 years of experience.
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And it's not easy, but that's what every brand wants.
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And I don't care if they sell microphones or laptops.
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They want them to know what great customer service is, know
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what great you know, interpersonal skills are and
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know all the product. But they need fresh recruits
3:01
every single day because every business has turnover.
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And so we're always just trying to make the employees, dip them
3:07
in a little bit of the brand chocolate, have them walk and
3:10
talk and feel like the brand. But then understand, you know
3:14
what I really call the secret sauce?
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Ask the right questions, truly listen to the answer, deliver
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exactly what the customer wants, the way the customer wants, and
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that's it. Start there and then move
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forward. How do you land a customer like
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Tesla? Like how does that?
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I'm curious because you hear that it's like that's like the
3:30
biggest like company. You know what I mean it.
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Was a long time ago. It was over a decade ago, but.
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But still, you've won consistently big cut like you've
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worked with a lot of big brands. Brought me this here today,
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which I appreciate. BMW, right?
3:43
Hot Wheels, very cool. I appreciate that.
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Yeah, I collect a ton of BMW and mini Hot Wheels because I
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trained them for them so much. And I give these out and it's a
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small reminder to me about how much people love brand.
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Because if I walked in there with a no offense, but a Chevy,
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you know, Tahoe hot wheel, people be like, oh, thanks.
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But if I bring in a, a BMW2000 and two like, you know, Chrome
4:07
to hot wheel, they're like, I will do anything to get that
4:10
toy. But it's all of that journey has
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just been all word of mouth. It is truly who, you know, the
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only reason why I'm talking to you is because I knew John and
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John knew, you know, Christina and then it's, it's all of that.
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So I, when I worked for MINI, I was one of the first two US
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trainers for MINI in the United States, which was relaunched in
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2002 after being in the US for a long time.
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And a guy I trained there ended up becoming a manager, then
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left. And then it'd be on the, the
4:39
Tesla team. And what there was he, he tried
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to sort of position me and a training company that I knew to
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be the trainers met Elon. God, what was?
4:49
It Yeah, it was. How long ago was that?
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20 years? It was.
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It was before anything other than the the Tesla Roadster.
5:00
That was the only car that they had.
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Was it the Detroit Auto show? It was a quick 10 minute meeting
5:04
just to sort of scope us out. And then they decided to not go
5:08
with an automotive training company.
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They wanted somebody from the software field, which I totally
5:12
get. And so one of those people that
5:16
was on that first initial team, he just was like, yeah, I want
5:20
you to come in and I know who you are.
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And it's all reputation based. And that that was a couple of
5:26
events in the United States and one in Europe.
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But like I said, it was like 20 years ago.
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But he went on to Volkswagen and then he went on to another
5:33
company and somebody else I know here I was just on the phone
5:36
with driving here. He was at Mini and then went on
5:39
to Porsche, then went on to I think Polestar.
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And now he's at Subaru. Shout out to Max.
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This is it's kind of just people want to work with people that
5:49
they know like and trust. And so it's all relationship.
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Yeah, you know, did. You get to have a conversation
5:55
with Elon at all. Yes, short, quick to the point.
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What was, what was he like? Quiet, you know, quiet.
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And I, I, I'm definitely not a fan of where he's at now, but,
6:07
you know, it's like, great, he wants to do what he wants to do,
6:09
That's fine. But it's just, it was wild to be
6:13
on the sort of ground floor of that at that time.
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We were at the Detroit International Auto Show.
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Their booth was really small. It was a you.
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Invested in the stock back then. Boom.
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It was a set of air walls in a really small sort of conference
6:28
room. And it was a referral from my
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friend who was, I think one of the 1st 100 employees of the
6:33
company. And he was like, hey, I'll set
6:35
up the meeting. And we met and we thought it all
6:37
went great. And then, you know, they went in
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a different direction, which is fine, which is great.
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But then it came back ten years later that he called me up and
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you know, my, my friend at the company, shout out Dustin.
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And he was like, we need some training.
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And so I helped him sort of develop really interpersonal
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stuff, leadership, culture based stuff.
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And then the US team liked it. One person was there from the
6:58
UK, Shout out Tim. And Tim brought me to the UK and
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I think, I think what I'm realizing is just having this
7:04
conversation with you is just, I just need to have a lot of
7:06
gratitude for a lot of people who whenever they think of
7:10
something like we should call Frank.
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And I'm like, thank you very much for calling me.
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So yeah. And I try to do that too.
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There's it's a business of referrals.
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It's a, it's a, it's a game of trust where everybody's just
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trying to help everybody keep going, you know, moving forward.
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So what would advice, what advice would you have to
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founders out there right now want to get into big customers
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or unlock great opportunities as you have because you've been
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super consistent. There's something that you're
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doing that other people are not doing, whether it's
7:37
relationships, whatever it might be.
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What advice would you have to founders that want to, you know,
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create better relationships and get into some of these key
7:44
accounts and create that referral machine?
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Because some people, a lot of people don't have that.
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Yeah, I would. I would think before the founder
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thing. I think what has helped me has
7:53
been low maintenance work a lot, high maintenance work very
7:56
little. So it's just be flexible, be
8:00
adaptable and try to have as little ego as possible.
8:04
That is not humanly possible. All of us have ego, but that's
8:07
sort of what's helped me. It's just I'm, I'm here to
8:10
serve. I'm in.
8:11
I just want to, you know, thank you for the call.
8:13
How can I help? I I sense that the moment you
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walked in the door, honestly, seriously, before even the
8:19
gifts, but the gift thing was like an additional like layer of
8:23
the cake. Sure.
8:23
I just could feel the energy of like, oh, I'm here to help.
8:26
What can I do? And he we had problems with the
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audio before this. Sure.
8:30
Thankfully we thankfully we figured it out, but I just got
8:32
the sense that you were just like here to help and serve and
8:35
be be grateful. I just don't understand
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ungrateful people. I don't understand critical
8:39
people. Like who in the hell are you to
8:42
try to complain something's gone wrong?
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You have to wait an extra 5 minutes.
8:46
Great, relax. I think there's something in the
8:48
Dao or like Buddha that's easy as the way for those who have no
8:52
preferences. And so it's like if I don't have
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some sort of preferred way of things and I just go with the
8:57
flow quote, UN quote, it seems to work out a lot better.
9:00
Were you always like that? I think so.
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I definitely am wiser as I am older and realized that when I
9:07
was younger, I was definitely more egotistical, but it was
9:09
rooted in a place where I was insecure.
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So I was always trying to win everybody's approval and
9:14
attention. And you know, but I, I see
9:17
people who are young now who have that and I want to say to
9:19
them, hey, don't let your ego drive those things or don't try
9:23
to talk the most in a room, try to be a better listener.
9:26
And I realized that at 20, they're not going to hear that
9:29
and they can't. And I probably didn't even get
9:31
that until I was over 40. And now I'm over 50, and it's
9:34
like, yeah, like, it's it, it's that sort of not curse, but, you
9:40
know, catch 22 that when you're young, you have youth and
9:43
exuberance and passion and excitement, but you lack wisdom.
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But as you get older, you have the wisdom, but you lose a
9:48
little bit of that enthusiasm and passion.
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You have to find that little sweet moment there.
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But the advice to founders, I mean, it's very much like what's
9:57
on your shirt. I am the content.
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You like you, you are. And I've for the last two years,
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I leaned in hard on creating a content story.
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And then I heard from another guy named Al Kutri, who's with
10:12
the company called Automotive State of the Union.
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I was trying to explain to him I'm, I'm doing podcasts and
10:16
this. And he was like, oh, yeah,
10:17
you're trying to do social proof.
10:19
And I was like, what the hell is social proof?
10:21
And it's proof to everyone else in society that you're not a
10:24
weirdo, that you actually have something to say and you're
10:27
consistent in what you say. So I think if you're, you know,
10:31
trying to be a, a founder or CEO and bring something to the
10:35
table, how are you different? You know, is it authentic and
10:38
genuine? And how do you help, you know?
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I Frank, I think that's your superpower.
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What's that? Not knowing you for very long
10:45
here, but I just like that to me is at minimum one of your
10:48
superpowers, which is your ability to show up and have a
10:52
attitude of optimism and attitude of gratitude and then a
10:57
serving mentality. I think that a lot.
10:59
It sounds like, well, yeah, I guess I can just go do that.
11:02
But very few people really live that.
11:05
And I think that it makes sense why you have all these great
11:07
relationships now. Seriously, because I, I can see
11:10
I'm like, well, I'm like, what about Frank?
11:11
It's like all are all these people flocking to because you
11:14
can say like, yeah, I made a relationship.
11:15
Then they moved here. They moved here.
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But I'm telling you, most people don't have those connections and
11:19
people don't keep reaching out to them and thinking of them.
11:22
But I see now you've planted all these little seeds and in a
11:25
very, what seems like a very genuine way, but you've just
11:28
showed up to serve. You've been flexible, you've
11:30
been grateful. Hey, it's cool, everything's
11:32
good. There's a problem.
11:33
And I think that's what's what's come back to you in a lot of
11:35
ways. I'm sure there's other things,
11:36
but that's what I see. Or in 10 minutes for 10 minutes.
11:40
But I like you very much. I like you too man, I appreciate
11:43
it. That's.
11:44
Very generous of you and very nice and I I guess I have been
11:48
naive to the idea that people don't have referrals like that.
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That's not been my experience. So that's an eye opener for me
11:55
that not everybody has those sort of continual people
11:57
thinking of them. I definitely remember, like
12:01
COVID is what slapped me in the face.
12:03
Like my job is to be in front of people in a hotel room,
12:07
typically 20 to 25 people at a time who are all from the United
12:11
States, all across the country, sometimes Europe, in a hotel
12:14
setting for 8 hours a day for three days in a row.
12:17
So COVID was like, yeah, your job cease to exist.
12:21
And so for two years, I didn't really know what I was going to
12:25
do. I thought I was like, I'm going
12:26
to go work at Costco and deliver groceries.
12:28
It was, it was terrifying. Just living on savings or what?
12:32
Yeah, It was, you know what we had, we started to pull a couple
12:35
of automotive manufacturers together during that time.
12:38
But then the first six months I was like, we need to shift
12:40
training to online because everybody thinks it's 6 to 8
12:44
months, it's going to be years. You need to keep training these
12:47
people. And we did.
12:47
We used Zoom and we use Microsoft Teams and we help
12:50
these people do video training content like this that was
12:54
somewhat engaging and it'll never replace in person
12:56
training, but that's what kept us going.
13:00
But I, that was what woke me up and I said, I, I want to always
13:05
do more. I want to push more.
13:08
I want to be more transparent and I I don't always rub
13:13
everybody the right way. I have a couple of clients who
13:15
just, it didn't work and it wasn't there.
13:18
And that's not a good or bad thing.
13:21
It's just a very stoic response, like, hey, just it sometimes
13:24
it's not the right fit. So, but I remember taking this
13:28
thing called Gallup string finders.
13:30
You ever heard of this? I think I've heard of it.
13:31
Yeah. So Gallup's a big organization,
13:33
right? Frank Finders.
13:34
Yeah. So there's a book on it, too,
13:35
right? There is.
13:36
And they make you take this quiz and they bring you like your 21
13:40
top strengths. And I was in Germany at the time
13:42
with BMW and I did the thing and I was very excited to see my
13:45
results. And my number one result was woo
13:48
woo. And I was like, that's stupid.
13:51
What are you talking woo? Like I'm, you know, like woo woo
13:54
and like, you know, warm and fuzzy.
13:56
And then I got back to the States and one of my mentors was
13:59
like, you know what woo stands for, right?
14:01
And I was like, no, I thought it was just the word woo.
14:04
And she's like, oh, no, no. And she brings me the content
14:06
and it says winning others over. Wow.
14:09
And I was like. Great shocker I'll.
14:10
Be woo all the time. Yeah, Yeah.
14:12
So but that'd be my advice to, I guess, founders because that's
14:17
what this conversation is about. Like be very authentic, be very
14:22
transparent. Really.
14:23
No shouting out to Gary Vaynerchuk, those big thing for
14:27
me 7-8 years ago. Be absolutely honest about what
14:31
you're not good at. Really tell people quickly, hey,
14:34
I'd love to help you, but that is not what I'm good at or
14:37
really what my specialty is. And then lean wholeheartedly
14:41
into your strengths and just be like, yeah, like you're never
14:44
going to get me to do an Excel spreadsheet.
14:46
It's just not going to happen. I'm with you.
14:48
There. But if you want me to craft a
14:49
big vision for an event where people walk in one side and the
14:52
other side they come out inspired and motivated, I'm your
14:55
guy. But just don't ask me to track
14:58
attendance, because I won't. I won't do it well.
15:01
Was was 2020 COVID your toughest period in in life for business?
15:06
Yeah, it was, I mean. What were you like back then?
15:10
Were you still like the happy go lucky, good perspective and
15:12
mindset or were you getting down and beating yourself?
15:15
Up No, like 2019 was one of my best years. 2020 had so much on
15:19
the books and I was like, you know, but I'm, I'm working on a
15:23
book and I would have, I would have never done the book if
15:25
COVID hadn't happened because I, I started writing it two months
15:28
into COVID. So I was like, OK, this, this
15:31
time has been set aside for me. Let me do something with this
15:35
other than sit in my backyard and listen to reggae music all
15:37
day with me, you know, in the sunlight.
15:40
And it was wild, man. I think it was wild for
15:43
everybody in many different ways, but it was isolation.
15:47
There's a book out there that I just learned about called The 12
15:49
Hour Walk. So it's this thing that the
15:52
author puts forth and it says every one of us should take a 12
15:56
hour walk by ourselves. No music, no cell phone, right?
16:00
You could have that on you for emergencies, but just walk for
16:03
12 hours by yourself. That's a long walk.
16:05
And if, well, if you need to stop, you stop.
16:07
If you want to eat, you eat, but just keep walking.
16:09
And that'd be insightful. And it's the isolation of that
16:12
time, you know, where you and you just are alone with your
16:15
thoughts for that time. So that's what Covid's two years
16:19
was my 12 hour walk. There's something really
16:22
powerful to that. And I see that like when I'm
16:24
walking to the coffee shop or if I'm working out or doing
16:26
something, there's times when I'm like you almost like for me
16:29
at least. And I think a lot of people, you
16:30
pull out your phone and it's like podcasts, music, Internet,
16:33
you know, whatever, text message, social media, you can
16:35
do whatever you want with it. But putting your phone away and
16:39
just having some peaceful time to yourself and reflecting and
16:43
getting in your own mind and thinking how what's going on
16:45
right now and where am I going and what am I doing it for?
16:47
And that's really powerful, you know, Do you, what would be your
16:51
advice to people that if you're complaining a lot and you're not
16:55
grateful? I think we, I find myself in
16:58
this spot sometimes as grateful as I try to be.
17:00
But you know, there's a lot of people like they complain, this
17:03
isn't right, this sucks, this why is this happening?
17:05
That person sucks. This person is not doing this.
17:07
What's your advice to people like that?
17:09
Well, I, I was listening to your podcast driving here with the
17:13
gentleman who's got the in the flow and has ADHD.
17:17
And he, he was talking about, you know, having, having a
17:22
vision and knowing what you want to do and being so focused on
17:25
it. My son also has a complex ADHD.
17:28
But I found that there's this drive in all of us.
17:32
And if you don't slow down enough to recognize what you
17:37
have, you're going to be constantly looking around at the
17:40
things you don't. And I mean, I can't remember if
17:45
it's like Buddha, I think it is, but there was something like
17:50
life is suffering. And so the the point is to
17:53
choose your suffering. I think that's what it was when
17:55
you did the podcast with them. People said it's like, I'm going
17:58
to if this is exhausting and this, but I'm going to choose
18:00
it. So it's my version.
18:02
It's exhausting in a good way. And so if you lack gratitude,
18:07
there are so many different things that you can do to stop
18:09
for a second and realize, like I travel typically in my bags with
18:13
a memento Mori coin, which is an old Latin phrase that I got
18:17
through stoicism from Ryan Holiday, which is remember your
18:19
death. Like right now, an airplane
18:21
could crash on this building and kill all of us.
18:23
I don't want that right? But right.
18:26
But if it's if you stop for a second and just start to, and I
18:31
know it's a word we bang around all day long on all these
18:33
podcasts, everything gratitude, gratitude.
18:36
But there's a reason for that. Just cause something is corny
18:38
doesn't mean it's not true. And.
18:40
So you have to find it, you know, whether that's your health
18:44
or your breathing or your, just your mindset and then start to
18:48
realize how lucky you are. You know, I do the financial
18:52
thing all the time. I, I think I saw if you make
18:55
$50,000 a year, you're in the top 10% globally, you know, and
19:00
if you make 100,000 a year, you're in the top 2% globally.
19:06
You know, we have, we have no sense of what everybody else is
19:08
going through in this world. I remember a picture.
19:12
Oh my gosh, yeah, there's a picture and I can't think of the
19:14
name of the river, but it's a river in India that's coated in
19:17
foam, looks like bubbles. And so I was like, oh, that's
19:21
cool, but it's not because it's toxic waste that's in this
19:25
river. And it's one of the most holy
19:27
rivers in India and everybody's bathing at it every single day.
19:30
And then I can go, I can drink water from a can you know what I
19:35
mean? That literally just.
19:37
Pulled out of the fridge, then we have a bunch more.
19:39
Exactly. And we have refrigeration and
19:41
no, no gratitude whatsoever on how easy that process is and how
19:47
lucky we are so. This is like a different way to
19:49
live life. I feel like, you know, like
19:51
really appreciating everything and.
19:53
Yeah, and I'm I stumble daily, hourly.
19:57
And catch myself sometimes right, being like complaining
19:59
about something or pointing something out.
20:00
That's like man, that's and I'm like.
20:02
What you complaining about? Like there's so many good, this
20:05
is your problem, this is your challenge.
20:07
Like there's someone that would give their left arm to have my
20:10
problems right now in a third world country.
20:13
I don't want to minimize minimize your problems we don't
20:16
have. Them.
20:17
But it just it's it's about like level setting a little bit,
20:20
bringing it back down. Because if you get too worked
20:23
up, Chris Bosh was in an interview one time and he was
20:25
like when he was with LeBron and Dwyane Wade trying to win.
20:29
And he was so worked up. And one of the coaches came over
20:32
and said, you know, getting this excited might be the sign of an
20:35
impending nervous breakdown, so you need to relax a little bit.
20:39
And so it helped him just be like, I got to shake it off, you
20:42
know? And I think that's what
20:43
gratitude can do. It can just bring you back down
20:45
a little bit, settle you down, and then we'll go after whatever
20:49
the next problem is. Yeah.
20:51
Man, there's a lot to take away here.
20:53
Sure, I know some people might be like it's, you know, it's,
20:55
it's the fluff stuff. But really, if I think if every
20:58
founder right now were to walk out of the room that they're in
21:01
and every interaction they have from here on out, they are able
21:04
to meet people with serving mentality, gratitude, like that
21:09
would change the game for them. They would open up opportunities
21:11
that are not there now. I just know that.
21:13
And the same with your family and friends, right?
21:15
Like any founder is a leader and I can't, I could talk for days
21:20
about the the problems of managers and bosses and leaders,
21:26
but I saw a study that just showed like Chachi PT and Google
21:29
AI. They asked like, what's the
21:30
definition of leadership? The number one thing that kept
21:33
coming up was leading by example.
21:35
And so if you're that founder and you're not willing to get in
21:38
the trenches or you're that founder, you're not willing to
21:40
be vulnerable and admit that you did something wrong or you're
21:43
that leader and you're not taking responsibility or
21:45
protecting your staff, like nobody wants to follow you,
21:51
right, You know? Yeah.
21:52
Do you see this? Video that just happened.
21:54
You're you're a viral guy and I'm sure you're on TikTok and
21:57
things you see the video of the woman got caught abusing dogs in
22:01
the grooming parlor. No, it's sort of a viral news
22:04
story. She is she is punching these
22:06
dogs that she's, you know, shaving and clipping and
22:10
everything smashing them into the wall.
22:12
It's horrific. That's terrible.
22:13
But the story behind it was what got me.
22:16
Co worker saw this, knew of this, told the manager hey this
22:21
is happening. Manager says OK I'll talk to the
22:23
person and I'll handle it. Supposedly does.
22:26
Doesn't change anything. This person keeps doing this
22:29
abuse. So the Co worker videotapes it
22:33
and does it has a camera. The videotapes all takes it to
22:36
the police. The manager gets angry at the Co
22:41
worker and threatens to sue her if she doesn't take the video
22:46
down immediately and going to hold her financial responsible
22:49
for all the damages. They're going to happen to the
22:51
business because nobody's going to want to bring their dog
22:53
there. Because she's taking it public,
22:54
she's put it on social. Why did the?
22:58
Manager do something about how do you you go in a dog grooming
23:01
place and people are punching dogs and you're cool with that?
23:04
And that would have been like, man, my mom would have punched
23:08
that person in the face. If you see the video you want to
23:12
you, you get. How can you?
23:13
How can you hurt dog animal period?
23:16
Just anyone like innocent things.
23:18
But I'm sure that was a founder. I, I don't, I don't know if it
23:21
was a chain, but if I had to guess, it was probably somebody
23:24
who wanted to start a business who believe that what we're
23:27
doing can, you know, is profitable and can help make a
23:30
difference like that. They have to be animal lovers,
23:33
just whoever started the business.
23:36
But then here comes the problem. They don't address the problem.
23:38
Here's a person who believes in doing what's right, and you're
23:41
going to chastise the person who's doing what's right.
23:43
That's crazy, man. So like you as a founder,
23:47
authenticity, vulnerability, you know, leading by example, taking
23:51
I think the best piece of leadership advice I ever got was
23:55
taking the blame when everything goes wrong and taking none of
23:58
the credit when everything goes right.
24:00
And that's selfless and exhausting and thankless.
24:05
But that's why you get the big parking space and that's why you
24:08
get the big office, and that's why you get the bonuses and you
24:10
have the biggest portion of the stock, so.
24:13
That's so well said. We're doing all the work.
24:16
You're running things. You got to remind yourself of
24:18
that everyday because it's really hard.
24:21
Like it's hard to have issues and be like, why didn't they do
24:24
this? Why didn't they do this?
24:25
You know, you got to remind yourself, yeah, that's why I'm
24:28
in this spot, you know? And when things go well, you got
24:31
to praise, you got a reward. You don't get a lot of that back
24:34
as a leader. But the other one was praised
24:36
publicly but critiqued privately.
24:38
But how many businesses do you see where the the leader or the
24:42
founder blames their staff and everything goes wrong, takes all
24:45
the credit and everything goes right?
24:47
Doesn't, you know, publicly chastises an employee in front
24:50
of everybody else and the praise goes under the rug with an
24:54
e-mail or a letter or a gift card.
24:56
So. Yeah.
24:57
So would you say customer experience and leadership would
25:01
be two areas that you are an expert in, right, that you've
25:04
helped work with, you know, BMW, Rolls Royce, all these
25:06
companies? I hate the term expert.
25:07
Well. What would you call it?
25:09
Well knowledgeable you're. I'm I'm a guide.
25:13
A guide. OK, I like that.
25:14
Yeah, I. Saw yes, one guy, Anthony
25:17
Ashione used to work at BMW. Now he's at car saver, but he
25:21
posted a story one time from and I, I can't think of the author,
25:24
but they did a really good job of pointing out while calling
25:27
yourself the expert is dangerous because what does it say to the
25:31
people you're talking to? You're not as smart as me.
25:34
I'm smarter than you. I talk, you listen and you're
25:37
less likely to ask questions, less likely to challenge my
25:40
ideas. And so I feel like that's
25:42
problematic. I know that it's thrown around,
25:44
but I like to be a guide. Or a coach, right?
25:47
Or a coach. A facilitator.
25:49
But yes, those worlds of leadership and customer
25:52
experience are my wheelhouse. That's where I that's my gym.
25:56
That's where I work. So what is customer experience
26:00
and how do you, how does it affect a founder's or a
26:03
company's business and bottom line?
26:05
Whatever that customer experience is in your business
26:09
or brand, it's whatever they go through, whatever they smell,
26:12
whatever they touch, however they're spoken to, however
26:16
they're engaged or not engaged. It is the sum of its parts.
26:19
And I don't know why I'm very particular to this part of your
26:21
table, but I like it evidently. That part's good.
26:23
That's where I map. I'm a very visual.
26:25
You're seeing something on there.
26:26
The viewers aren't seeing it, but.
26:27
You're seeing it very visual, but it's the.
26:31
It's the whole embodiment of who are you?
26:34
So ice cream shop. I walk in as a customer.
26:37
It's how they greet me, it's how they take my order.
26:39
It's how they scoop the ice cream.
26:40
It's what they say when I check out.
26:42
It's how I felt when I am eating there and how I feel when I
26:45
leave. Yeah, when we're out in
26:47
standard, general day-to-day life, you can kind of do or say
26:50
whatever you want, and you're not responsible for anybody
26:53
else's happiness. That's one of the great things
26:54
about the First Amendment. Like, you can say what you want,
26:56
I was saying, within reason, but you can run down the street and
26:59
be like, bananas are amazing and nobody will care 'cause you get
27:02
to be who you are. But the moment you wear a name
27:05
badge or a uniform and you are representing a business, you are
27:09
wholeheartedly responsible for how your thoughts and actions
27:11
make people feel. And This is why we have a lot of
27:14
Karens and Kens, 'cause they're out of business and the business
27:17
is disrespecting them. And they're like, wait a minute,
27:19
aren't you? Aren't you supposed to be nice
27:21
to me? What's wild to me is this just
27:24
happened a couple of weeks ago in a class in New Jersey.
27:26
I was talking about, and this is so wild that you have water.
27:30
I was doing a possible greeting of a customer in an automotive
27:33
dealership for the 1st 3060 seconds.
27:35
And it was about first word choice and tone and emphasis and
27:38
all those things. And then I asked the customer in
27:41
this role play, I said, can I get you a water, something to
27:43
drink? And he said, yeah, that'd be
27:45
great. And I said sparkling or flat,
27:48
you know, Stillwater. And he was like, oh, no, flats,
27:50
you know, still is fine. And I said great, room
27:52
temperature or cold. And he was like, oh, thanks for
27:55
asking room temperature. And so we were modeling for them
27:57
how you can make a preferential experience feel just a little
28:00
bit more like a Ritz Carlton even.
28:02
Yeah, totally. At Alex's ice cream shop, a
28:05
young participant in the back of the room raises his hand in the
28:08
debrief and goes, It sounds just like you're trying to tell me
28:10
that I have to kiss their ass. And I was like, kinda this,
28:15
this. He thought that asking someone
28:17
about their preference about water was unnecessary.
28:20
Yeah, to me, that's just serving.
28:22
That's it. Yeah.
28:23
Kissing ass is like giving somebody false compliments,
28:25
right, Frank? You're so awesome.
28:26
You're resistor that and not really being truthful or genuine
28:29
about it. Yeah, you're just trying to
28:30
create a really good experience. And he said nobody wants room
28:32
temperature. And then some people do was the
28:35
class. 24 people was like, who likes room temperature?
28:37
About half the hands went up and I was like, I don't.
28:39
Agree with crazy people. They are crazy and the one guy's
28:42
like it's better for you. I was like, I don't care when it
28:44
cold is possible, but but it's about so that's, you know,
28:49
preference, personalizing experience, tailoring
28:51
experience. That is the new luxury.
28:53
The experience economy became out with Starbucks.
28:56
It pushed this idea that you can have a better customer
28:58
experience and and people will pay more for it.
29:00
There's proof and scientific evidence to back that up.
29:03
So. Wow, man.
29:04
So, you know, if you create a better customer experience,
29:07
you're able to create probably more lifetime customer value or
29:11
revenue for the business, more referrals, which again ties back
29:14
into Frank. I think Frank's done a good job
29:16
with his personal brand, right? Yep.
29:19
So when you go into these companies, right, like a BMW or
29:22
a Rolls Royce or a Colgate or whatever it is, yeah.
29:25
What are what are some of the common themes that you see as
29:27
problems? Like where?
29:29
Where is the customer experience broken?
29:31
Well, first you keep saying Rolls Royce.
29:34
I consulted one time for a behavioral assessment class for
29:37
a group of Rolls Royce executives.
29:38
So they're the the client I've worked with the least in my
29:41
life. They're very.
29:42
Sounds cool. It does, it does, and I just.
29:45
I have transparent honesty. It was wild, though, because
29:48
their world is so different than anybody else at a BMW store.
29:52
The the Rolls Royce people sell so few cars every single year,
29:56
and they don't sell them probably directly to customers.
29:58
They're through a vendor or they're through their assistant
30:00
or their team. So it's a very different world.
30:03
But I'm in BMW dealerships all the time.
30:06
And how's the customer experience?
30:07
I don't want to say broken, but like where do they need help?
30:10
Like what's not going on there that should be?
30:12
I think any. Customer, you've worked for the.
30:14
First thing would be better situational awareness that you
30:18
have to widen your gaze, open yourself up to everything you're
30:23
seeing in front of you at that moment from a customer.
30:26
What's their body language? What are they saying to you?
30:28
Are you trying to, are you trying to land them on a car or
30:32
a product? Or are you trying to rush them
30:34
through this business, you know, this transaction that's like the
30:37
second biggest purchase of their life?
30:39
Maybe slow down just a little bit.
30:42
So, so are you able to pick up these cues and see these things
30:45
around you? That's the, I believe the
30:48
starting block because then I'll say, did you, did you see that?
30:52
Did you notice what the happened in the interaction?
30:54
And they're like, no, they're fully unaware of it.
30:57
You shadow them first. That's kind of part of the
30:59
process. Let me just observe how you guys
31:01
roll. It always depends.
31:02
Most of the time it's a hotel training and they come to us and
31:05
we have 20 to 25 people in a room and we'll do skills
31:09
practice. We hate the term role play
31:10
because role is going to be about that character and you
31:12
have an accent like you're able to do.
31:14
This, you know, you could do British accent for the podcast,
31:17
you know. That's right.
31:18
You know, my name is Angus. I'm here for a BMW 3 Series.
31:21
But that that kind of off puts people from a training sense.
31:25
So we call it just skills practice.
31:27
I just want you to be you and I'm going to be a customer and I
31:30
just want you to greet me like you've done 10,000 times before.
31:33
And we can then we sort of dissect that and we videotape it
31:36
and we analyze it. We're like, what was your hand
31:38
doing here? I said that thing.
31:39
Why were you picking your nose? Did you No, nobody's picking
31:42
their nose. But it's it's these things that
31:46
I, I see, but only after massive exposure to those.
31:49
Things, yeah, sure. So they're just like, oh man, I
31:51
never even notice I did that. Yeah.
31:53
It's like everybody, I think most people, but no, I have to
31:56
correct my statement. Most people probably don't know
31:58
how to throw a football effectively, right.
32:00
But if you played a little bit, you know how to throw a
32:02
football. But it doesn't mean you know how
32:04
to throw a spiral or doesn't mean you know how to do a drop,
32:06
doesn't mean you know how to, you know, accelerate or get off
32:09
your back foot. And there's, there's nuances in
32:11
every trade that if you're not aware of, I don't want to blame
32:15
you, you know, But like I said, most people don't have those
32:19
skills out of the gate. Gen.
32:21
Z is the hardest working generation.
32:24
Yeah. What makes you say that?
32:25
I mean, it's, it's I, I left that podcast that last time and
32:29
I was like, because I, I, I've talked with so many, but then
32:32
millennials too, they work hard. I, I, I just feel like most of
32:37
the leaders I deal with are from older generations and a lot of
32:41
them come from the military or sports and their, if their
32:45
military is their background, it can be good.
32:47
But sometimes they're like, you'll do exactly what I say and
32:50
when I say it. That training that they got was
32:53
on how to kill people and how to not be killed by people.
32:55
And it was also not in the civilian world where someone can
32:58
go, you know what, I'm out. Like, once you're in, you're not
33:00
necessarily forever, but you're kind of in there once you get
33:03
past boot camp and stuff, right? Like you got a path where it's
33:05
like you kind of can't really roll out at any point without
33:08
repercussions. Civilian world, you don't have
33:11
that control, right? Yeah.
33:12
And it's not, it's not life or death.
33:14
It's not. So it's there is more nuance.
33:17
And in sports, you know, it's like we it's win or lose.
33:20
We've got to win all the time. We're like, you're going to lose
33:23
sometimes. And I think on that sports team,
33:24
you're truly aligned with one very common goal.
33:28
Not that you can't be in a company, but it is like truly
33:30
you really like, it's a really unified type thing, yeah.
33:34
So when I say these younger generations are working harder,
33:36
people from 20-30 years ago when they were the primary workforce,
33:40
they didn't have e-mail in the middle of the night.
33:43
They didn't have cell phones pinging.
33:44
I mean, I've got people who are sending me videos and emails,
33:48
you know, at 1:00 in the morning.
33:50
That was not happening in generations 2-3 generations ago.
33:53
They were, they do their thing, punch out, go home, have a BBQ,
33:57
you know, maybe do something on a Saturday.
33:59
But it just there's so much more on the plate for the for the
34:03
young generations of workers now.
34:05
And the worst thing I can hear from leaders trying to talk to
34:08
those younger people are back in my days.
34:11
Like I want to stop them right there and just be like, shut,
34:14
shut it down. You're you're losing your
34:17
audience from the very first conversation.
34:19
And it should be more. Tell me about your days, not my
34:23
days, but what's going on in trying to be a better, more
34:25
understanding leader. But that's really hard.
34:27
Is it that you think that Gen. Z's work day is a little bit
34:31
more blended now with personal or different times?
34:34
Or is it that you think they genuinely they actually do work
34:37
harder? Because I think it's a little
34:38
bit of a difference between those two things when.
34:40
You sure? Yeah, I mean, a lot of it is
34:43
like most all things my personal experience with with this
34:46
generation and I'm I'm really not great.
34:49
What is the current generation now like?
34:51
What's there? There's a new.
34:53
One, what's the current generation?
34:55
Not Gen. Z, but there's a Gen. alpha.
34:58
Gen. Gen. alpha.
34:59
Yeah, great. I don't.
34:59
They're cooking on Fortnite. I don't even know.
35:01
What they're doing my kids. Fortnite is probably even old
35:04
now. It's not even not even popular
35:05
anymore. Yeah, But I think like
35:08
millennials, Gen. Z, they're like the majority of
35:10
the workforce now. And there's just so much going
35:13
on. And yeah, and they're, they
35:16
also, I think coming out of COVID realized I don't have to
35:19
work for a terrible manager if I don't want to.
35:20
And I can make a little bit more.
35:22
And I can collectively understand that I am a value to
35:25
this company. But at at the same time that AI
35:28
is rising and Salesforce just said they've replaced like 30%
35:32
of their workload with AI. And I'm like, OK.
35:35
Speaking of AI, as you know, in a world run by AI, what do you
35:40
think humans need to lean into more now than ever before?
35:44
Well, I, I, I heard somebody say the day, I don't want AI to to
35:49
do my job so that I can cut the grass.
35:51
I want AI to cut my grass so that I can do the job.
35:54
And that's what I think is the best way to think about and
35:57
position this thing get. That humanoid robotic out there
36:00
just. Or just, you know, my electric
36:03
lawn. Yeah, there you go.
36:05
But I, I don't want, if AI is used to measure analytics and
36:10
come up with details and handle those spreadsheets and put
36:13
together the proposals in the quarter lease, I think that's
36:16
great because it's very precise in those ways, but it's
36:19
incredibly impersonal. There's there's a video of a guy
36:22
on the phone with an AI from a real estate company and he says,
36:26
you know, the real estate, it's supposed it's playing like it's
36:29
a real person. Which I don't think is right.
36:30
I think you need to like, let people know if you're artificial
36:32
intelligence. I ask now all the time.
36:34
I'm like, is this a real person? If they're like, yes, I am
36:37
actually a real person. Like you just sound like a
36:39
robot. What's the deal?
36:40
Some people. The last person was for what was
36:44
it for us for like my doctor's office and she was very robotic
36:47
sounding and polished. And I was like, are you a real
36:49
person? She yes, yes, I am.
36:52
Actually. I was like, I didn't mean to
36:53
approve it, but this guy is on the phone with this AI and he
36:57
says, will you write me a dissertation on Mesopotamia?
37:01
And they're like, yeah, sure. And then it talks for 7 minutes.
37:05
I'm like, that's not efficient. That's a waste of your bandwidth
37:08
and your time as a company. So the problem for me with AI is
37:12
the first word, right? It's artificial.
37:14
I think that if people in this world want to truly set
37:16
themselves apart, sharpen and increase your emotional
37:19
intelligence. And now I'm not saying anything
37:21
new that's been, there's been somebody 50 years ago, I was
37:24
like, we need to be better at dealing with people.
37:26
But how do you define emotional intelligence?
37:28
I think it's that's a really good question.
37:33
Understanding that people matter most, finding the balance
37:36
between the inanimate objects and the the hearts and minds
37:40
that you're dealing with, authenticity, genuineness,
37:45
asking a lot of great questions, selflessness.
37:48
I'm going to have to define that a little bit better next time.
37:51
So it's. A tough one.
37:52
Yeah, it's a tough one to define, but my kind.
37:54
Of a lot of things, motto for the last couple years has been
37:56
people matter most. So I think that's in three words
37:59
or less. That's what I would sum it up as
38:02
that with the, you know, you look at any great founder, those
38:07
people are the glue that hold all of that together.
38:10
And when founders leave a company, those companies usually
38:14
drift and they go back over to this rational side and this
38:18
bottom line side. And great founders aren't
38:21
they're like, who cares about that stuff?
38:24
Let's go make a vision. Let's go reshape the world.
38:26
Let's show people that coffee is not just coffee, you know?
38:30
So that's so true. I'm going to keep working on
38:32
that though. What do you think?
38:34
Like how is AI going to disrupt coaching, consulting businesses?
38:38
Because I think now we're living in a world now where people can
38:41
go to Chachi Petite. Chachi Petite 5 is coming out
38:44
here soon. If you're listening to this now,
38:46
it might already be out. Chachi PT 5 is here.
38:49
OK. How is it going to disrupt
38:52
coaching and consulting businesses in a world where
38:54
anyone can just literally go create me a framework for this,
38:57
Create me a strategy for this? And we all use it to help us do
39:00
our jobs better. Like even coaches and
39:02
consultants. We have to.
39:02
Otherwise you'd be just wasting hours of time.
39:04
Yeah, but where do you see the role?
39:06
I've got a perspective on this. I funny feeling.
39:08
Tell me your perspective. A funny feeling I might align
39:10
with yours. Tell me yours.
39:11
So like, for example, we do, you know, we, we help companies
39:15
build their own in house content teams, content marketing, right?
39:18
So instead of outsourcing to a marketing agency, we help you do
39:21
it internally. So there's strategy with that.
39:23
There's processes systems, there's AI and automation.
39:26
There's a lot of frameworks on how to create content, but
39:30
Frank, what I've seen us moving more into more by the day is
39:34
people development. We don't do social media
39:37
consulting and coaching and strategy and video content.
39:39
We do helping people build great teams that know how to tell a
39:44
brand story, that know how to market their their product or
39:47
service. And that is creating a
39:49
performance culture that is establishing goals.
39:52
That is knowing where people are coming from and being empathetic
39:55
to what they want to accomplish outside of just the role.
39:58
That's having tough conversations sometimes that's
40:01
rewarding people in public and having criticism type
40:03
conversations in in private. It's leadership.
40:06
It's addressing the elephant in the room.
40:08
It's it's a lot of different things.
40:10
And I think that is the superpower of.
40:14
Humans, especially in a world where we can have AI do a lot of
40:17
the IQ type stuff, but the EQ type stuff like hey, we've got a
40:21
person on our team, they've been struggling for three months.
40:24
Have we talked to about what's going on?
40:25
Have we had a conversation of just like let's?
40:27
Go sit them down with ChatGPT 5. You know, back in my day, we
40:31
didn't have this type of browsers.
40:32
We all just, you know, but but no, seriously, but knowing how
40:35
to approach something like that, you know, where it's not just
40:37
like, let's fire him. It's like, well, have we talked
40:39
to him about it? Have we seen and maybe there's
40:41
something going on with them. Let's let's feel them out.
40:43
Let's hear them out. Let's, you know, see what's
40:45
happening and then see how we can fix it together.
40:48
You know, do we know how to coach somebody, you know, truly
40:51
make them better? And I think that's why I'm
40:53
excited about our business because marketing agencies, they
40:56
don't have that built into their business.
40:58
It's we're going to do a function for you.
41:00
We're going to edit a video, we're going to write copy, we're
41:02
going to post it. We're going to do an SEO, you
41:04
know, strategy. We are more like we're going to
41:06
help you build people and do the human stuff really well.
41:10
And let's let the AI take care of what it can.
41:12
But. Yeah, let it mow the lawn while
41:13
you're doing the people stuff. That's right.
41:15
There's like 5 different things that came out of that when you
41:17
were talking about it, so I'm going to try to.
41:19
Isn't that I was like, man, I wish I could just like pause and
41:21
like, you know, I felt like I should, I should be.
41:24
Taking notes, but the did you see the story on the study about
41:28
the people who were using AI versus the people who are not?
41:32
So there's a recent piece of research that's circling,
41:36
circling all over LinkedIn and it's becoming more and more, I
41:40
want to say it's Harvard Business Review, but I'm not
41:41
sure. But they took people who are
41:43
doing essays and they had people who are using AI.
41:47
People were using, I think just the standard Internet and the
41:49
people who are using neither, and they looked at brain scans
41:53
and the people who were doing neither, who were just from
41:56
their own imagination, their brain scans were off the charts,
41:59
massively engaged. They were.
42:01
Their stories were more complex. The people who are just using
42:05
the straight chat bots got less and less and less engaged and
42:09
their brain scans were you know, I don't know what a bad brain
42:12
scan is, but not great. And they by the end we're doing
42:16
nothing from a creative standpoint.
42:18
They literally were just copy click and paste and that's.
42:22
Why? I see people falling in that
42:23
trap all the time. It's a problematic, but do you
42:26
understand what you're creating? Right.
42:28
And it's not you. It's not you.
42:31
They yeah, I've lost like the nine things I wanted to say, but
42:36
I wholeheartedly agree with, well, coaches and what you're
42:38
saying. People that provide services and
42:39
coaching, you see people just leaning in more to that right,
42:43
to the EQ, to the coaching, to the getting into the heart and
42:47
minds of what is happening with human beings because I think
42:49
that's a lot of ways to stuff that AI can't do.
42:51
Well, a coach is not supposed to be a teacher, right?
42:54
There's there was a diagram one time that we created for a
42:58
course and coaching was at the top.
43:00
My good friend Josh White, who's a great facilitator, shout out
43:03
Josh. He he and I were trying to
43:05
develop this thing and we're like, well, what is coaching
43:08
like? What is a coach?
43:10
And he said coaching is a diagnostic tool.
43:13
And I was like, what do you mean is like, well, a coach is the
43:16
person who asks a lot of great questions and listens really,
43:19
really well and then ask questions of that person doesn't
43:22
give them the answer at all. That's the problem, first of
43:25
all, with AIAI is not going to coach you into questions.
43:28
It's not going to ask you to make you think through.
43:30
Things you could set it up that way, though I could argue you
43:32
could set it up that way. You could say, be my coach.
43:34
I only want you to don't give me the answers, only make me think
43:37
critically. OK, you know, so there's a
43:39
little, I see what you're saying and I now I have to go do this.
43:41
But also it's like it also is changing to the point where it
43:44
kind of can do whatever you want to.
43:46
Frankly, I still feel like it's artificial though.
43:47
I feel like there's not, there's something in, call it soul or
43:51
the spirit, there's something human to human that you're not
43:54
going to get from a. Device, I'm with you.
43:56
And that scares me. But the the coaching diagnostic
44:00
tool basically had this tree underneath it.
44:02
And one of them was a colleague where you wanted someone who
44:07
could just commiserate with you and just be like, yeah, this is
44:10
tough. You and I, you know, we're along
44:12
the same sides. The other one was a teacher or
44:15
the teachers like, ah, I know understand as your coach that
44:17
you don't know anything about this.
44:19
Let me teach you fully about those things.
44:22
And I think the last one was, I can't think of it.
44:26
I think it was like a friend or something.
44:28
But it was a really great way to think about what coaching is
44:31
that you're, you're trying to diagnose as much as possible.
44:35
And through that diagnosis, sometimes the person you're
44:38
coaching discovers their own answers.
44:39
That's the best, which is what everybody is after.
44:41
Everybody wants. Yeah.
44:42
Now you've got me totally spooked about.
44:44
Yeah, now I'm just. So do you play with it a lot?
44:47
Or not. So I have ChatGPT and I talk to
44:50
it all the time. Go ask it to be a coach for you,
44:53
say give it a model framework, right?
44:55
And say, I don't want, I want you to give me answers.
44:57
I want you to coach me and ask me tough questions that make me
44:59
get to the answers. And here's an example of what
45:01
that would look like and say now be my coach moving forward.
45:04
And then ask the question, hey, I'm stuck on this problem.
45:06
I'm like, what do you think would be the best outcome if
45:08
you? What would happen if you did
45:09
that? I'm realizing I might have a
45:10
bias towards AI in our in our conversation, right?
45:13
Now, well, I think it's kind of natural as a human, right?
45:16
We kind of feel a little bit threatened, you know, And I
45:18
think that's kind of a normal thought.
45:20
Yeah, but I don't think, I don't think people will ever go out of
45:23
style. Well, I hope not.
45:24
We've. Always had automated telephone
45:26
systems. We've had those for 20 years and
45:28
every time I ask somebody, is anybody excited to talk to the
45:30
automated person on the phone? But I know I agree, but I do.
45:35
This does feel different though, yeah.
45:36
Like it does feel not just like another like Internet or this or
45:39
that. It does feel like it's a little
45:41
scary, yeah. You know, like it's a little it.
45:44
It should cause a little concern.
45:46
Well, then you take the the level of isolation, there's the
45:49
shut in this, the people who are, you know, not good at
45:51
social, which had two years of their lives sort of taken away
45:55
from a social growth point there when there's a robot that's
45:59
going to come in and be there. I'm there's the one guy who
46:02
proposed to his chat bot and the guy's married.
46:07
What the hell man, you shoot on me with a freaking AI chat bot?
46:11
And he asked the AI chat bot and the wife is being interviewed on
46:14
TV and she's like, I'm just, I don't know, am I missing doing
46:17
something? And it's what she.
46:19
Just tries to be a robot. What?
46:21
We all want so badly is somebody to talk to and I've done that
46:25
with my ChatGPT and it'll play along for a while, but then I'll
46:28
get like really vulnerable, transparent, like I'm really
46:31
struggling with depression right now.
46:33
And the, and the chat GP too. Be like, mate, that's tough.
46:37
Well, definitely take a walk and drink some water and get outside
46:40
because sunlight's good for you. What else can I help with?
46:43
That's what it always ends with. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know
46:46
if you really helped me with the first thing.
46:48
So, but it's data, data being used so to sort of be data in
46:54
action. Yeah, I don't think that's
46:55
emotion. I don't think that's, you know,
46:58
feelings and those types of things.
47:00
Yeah, I think. We'll figure it out as humans,
47:02
you know. Like we don't have a choice.
47:03
We kind of always do, and we don't really have a choice.
47:05
We don't have a choice. It's coming.
47:07
It's coming fast, you know. Do you have a podcast or no?
47:10
No. OK, I don't.
47:12
You go on a lot of podcasts, though.
47:14
I try to. What do you think a role of a
47:15
good podcast host is to be? Wow.
47:19
That's a good question from your perspective.
47:22
I think letting you know having a having a game plan.
47:26
I always think of Tim Ferriss and my my friend turned me on to
47:30
him and he does 3 hour podcasts only asks 3 or 4 questions.
47:35
Wow, you know that's. Does that include follow-ups?
47:38
Yeah, so. Damn, I'll be done right now.
47:40
Well, he's he's a master at what we sort of teach in selling,
47:44
which is drill down. So really tell me more in what
47:46
way? How is that?
47:47
Why is that? You know, that sounds like a
47:49
story. You know, what else should I
47:51
know? It just letting people keep
47:53
going and and sharing who they are.
47:56
So I think that's part of it. But also coming back to you, and
48:00
I'm trying to do everything I can to keep coming back to your
48:02
red thread, which is something I learned from BMW training.
48:06
There's a story of, I think it's Theseus, this warrior back in
48:10
Greek or Roman times, He's going into the the maze to fight the
48:14
Minotaur, but doesn't want to get lost.
48:17
So he takes this red thread off his cloak and ties it at the
48:20
beginning of the maze. And he can go and fight and then
48:22
make his way back out. So I think your red thread is
48:24
that this is for founders. So I'm trying to lead that piece
48:28
there. But whoever your audience is,
48:30
you always want to keep coming back to what the same message is
48:32
for John. It's how do you get shit done?
48:34
You know, he's like, we, we want action in everything we're
48:37
doing. No hesitation.
48:38
Like, let's go for you. You're trying to build a story
48:42
of, hey, if I want to start something, which is terrifying
48:45
to some people and exhausting for some people, but it can
48:49
change their lives, you know? I think it does go, but whether
48:52
you're a host or you're the guest, it goes back to how do I
48:56
bring value to the audience for sure?
48:57
What is in it for them? Who is the audience?
49:00
How can I, you know, make this the best possible experience?
49:02
I always try to kind of extract knowledge and insights and
49:05
stories from one founder and pass it on to the next.
49:07
I look at. That's my job.
49:08
It's. Just big, great, big audio
49:10
books. Yeah, I listen to them all the
49:13
time. I don't ever watch it much.
49:15
I'm always listening. Yeah, totally.
49:16
And I'll pull something out that will be a thing that helps, you
49:19
know my next conversation. Yeah, well, I hope you guys
49:23
pulled some things out of this one because this is.
49:26
Man, I had such a great time and I want to end with this.
49:28
Your shirt says doing the best I can.
49:30
Yeah. Why?
49:31
Why? What does that shirt mean to
49:32
you? What does that saying mean to
49:33
you? It's from a company called the
49:35
Holderness Family. And they are a family that
49:37
started making social media content and they, they won The
49:41
Amazing Race and they, they both have their kids have ADHDI think
49:46
the dad has ADHD. They have, they have anxiety and
49:49
depression as a household. So they make a bunch of shirts,
49:52
but they made this shirt. And this is my sort of right
49:57
again, the, the, the, the isolation of COVID, the
50:01
pandemic, I, this would became my daily mantra.
50:04
And I don't have a tattoo, but if I ever got one, it would be
50:07
on the inside here and it would say I'm doing the best I can.
50:10
And over here it would say I did the best I could.
50:13
And it's it's just another gratitude piece to say what is
50:18
crushing today. Look like maybe I, you know,
50:21
maybe I crushed that couch and crushed watching, you know, New
50:25
Girl with my wife. And that was what today was
50:27
supposed to be. And I'm going to pick myself up
50:30
and I'm going to try to do better tomorrow.
50:32
This all or nothing, you know, kill, kill, kill, kill mantra of
50:37
just like I've got to be an entrepreneur and be a
50:40
billionaire tomorrow. It's it's unrealistic, first of
50:43
all, and exhausting and, you know, detrimental to your
50:47
health. So.
50:49
Yeah. And what's wild is, is
50:51
everywhere I wear it, people are like, I need that shirt.
50:54
Yeah, I love that shirt. It's.
50:55
Relatable. It's like, yeah, it makes you
50:57
feel good. Either, like, I resemble that
50:59
shirt. Yeah.
51:00
And it's like, OK. I think it's such an important
51:02
point you make too, about when you are a founder, you own your
51:04
own business. You don't have to take the path
51:07
that like is the traditional founders scale, raise money, do
51:11
this, become a billion. It's like, and that's probably a
51:13
.0001% ride anyways. But I think it's a founder.
51:17
We're trapped by this, like what's what we're supposed to do
51:21
with our business? Grow it, do this, that, that.
51:23
And it's like, is that the life that you want, right.
51:26
Why are you creating the business in the 1st place?
51:29
Isn't it to support the life that you want?
51:31
Or has the business now become the life and it's taken over and
51:34
you don't have a life anymore? And so I think like the business
51:37
should support your lifestyle, not your lifestyle supporting
51:40
your business. I'll use a basketball analogy
51:42
because I'm a big basketball fan.
51:44
I was going and playing and I lost a couple of games, and I
51:48
hate that I'm highly competitive.
51:50
My wife said, I think she said, listen, if you knew every time
51:53
you're going to go play that you would lose, would you still go
51:55
play? And I was like, yeah.
51:57
And it's like the question I would ask any founder is before
52:00
you're going to start a company, if you knew this company was
52:02
going to fail in six or 12 months, would you still do it?
52:05
And the answer should be yes. And if it's not yes, then you
52:09
definitely shouldn't start it because how many businesses
52:12
failed? But the question is, what did
52:13
you learn in the process of that?
52:15
How many companies has everybody had?
52:17
And it wasn't the company because it wasn't the right time
52:19
or the market was weird. Who knows?
52:22
But if you've got a vision, this is like anybody who makes a
52:25
movie. Nobody knows if it's going to be
52:27
a good movie. You know, I think it's Samuel
52:30
Goldwyn, you know, from MGM. His famous quote is nobody knows
52:33
nothing. Nobody has a crystal ball.
52:36
I'm going to tell you that this is going to work or not work, so
52:38
just keep doing what you're doing.
52:40
Show up every day. Yeah, I think if you're not
52:42
enjoying your business for the most of the time, like most of
52:45
the time, you should reflect and and understand why that is and
52:48
maybe it's time to do something else.
52:50
You know? For sure, Frank, this was an
52:52
absolute pleasure. You, you've inspired me, man.
52:55
Like leaving this conversation on the stuff that we talked
52:57
about makes me think about how I show up for me, my team, my
53:00
family, like really, really cool stuff.
53:02
I hope you guys took a lot out of this.
53:04
I appreciate you guys all listening and watching to this.
53:06
Where can people find you, connect with you, learn more
53:09
about what you do? Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn.
53:11
Last name is Z i.e. DE.
53:13
There's nobody else on LinkedIn with that last name.
53:15
And then my yeah, my website is FTZ inc.com, so it's my
53:20
initials. And then Inc 'cause it's I'm I'm
53:23
a company of 1. So I'm I'm an LLC of me.
53:27
And you're going to keep it that way.
53:28
Well, yeah, we'll see. You you you like that though.
53:31
Right. I would love an assistant.
53:32
Let me be. Clear, but you don't want to
53:34
scale it to some like, you know? Well, and it's not, I'm not that
53:37
business. I mean, I'm definitely trying to
53:39
pattern my journey or road off of what I've seen successful
53:43
with, you know, people like Ryan Holiday or Vaynerchuk or Simon
53:47
Sinek. They they built a brand on
53:49
themselves and they bet on themselves.
53:51
And if I can't bet on myself, then what am I doing?
53:54
Yeah, there it is. Yeah.
53:55
Appreciate you being on the show.
53:56
Yeah, man, it was a pleasure. Thanks Frank, for sure.