Latest / hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic / Heart Disease Can Hide for Years. These Tests Find It Earlier | Dr. Darshan Shah
Transcript
- [00:00:00] Dr. Darshan Shah: In 2026, if you really do things right and you start in your 30s and 40s, [00:00:05] there's zero reason for you to die of a heart attack. [00:00:07] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:00:07] Dr. Darshan Shah: The sad truth is that [00:00:10] 50% of people don't even know they have heart disease until they get their first heart attack, [00:00:15] and 50% of those people die from their heart attack. That's why it's the number one cause of death, [00:00:20] and this is for men and women. [00:00:21] Dr. Taz: Dr. Darshan Shah is a longevity physician, [00:00:25] board-certified surgeon, founder and CEO of Next Health, and the host of the Extend [00:00:30] podcast. [00:00:30] Dr. Darshan Shah: Women have different reasons they have heart attacks than men do. Some of them [00:00:35] have plaque. Some of them also have what's called small vessel blood disease. This is why they have different [00:00:40] symptoms of heart disease. They don't get the typical chest pain that's crushing- Right, right ... that goes down their [00:00:45] left arm. They will actually have, like, headaches, fatigue. It's because they have microvascular [00:00:50] disease as well. A lot of it is due to low estrogen levels. [00:00:53] Dr. Taz: His work focuses on [00:00:55] proactive health, lifespan, healthspan, and even advanced diagnostics, [00:01:00] helping people optimize their biology before disease begins. Please join me in [00:01:05] welcoming Dr. Shah to the show. This [00:01:07] Dr. Darshan Shah: episode is sponsored by WholePlus, a [00:01:10] holistic health platform built around education, [00:01:12] Dr. Taz: personalization, and integrative [00:01:15] care. WholePlus blends holistic, integrative, and functional medicine clinics with [00:01:20] learning resources like blogs, YouTube videos, and of course, this podcast, so you're [00:01:25] not just treated, you're informed. The platform also includes holistic health quizzes and a [00:01:30] curated wellness shop, helping you make choices that support your body at the root level.[00:01:35] WholePlus is holistic healthcare designed for real life. [00:01:39] Dr. Darshan Shah: [00:01:40] Visit us at wholeplus.co to learn more about the platform. Again, that's [00:01:45] W-H-O-L-P-L-U-S dot C-O. [00:01:47] Dr. Taz: All right. I am so excited about this [00:01:50] episode, and I've gotta tell you why. I think I've been stalking you or lurking in your background [00:01:55] for years and watching your journey and watching you start Next Health and all these different things, [00:02:00] and I'm really thrilled with the ability for us today to go deeper [00:02:05] and dive into some of the conversations that I know we care passionately about. But before we [00:02:10] start- I just wanna know how you shifted. You were a conventionally [00:02:15] trained physician, a surgeon, went to Mayo Clinic, worked in plastics [00:02:20] there. You know, what caused your shift? You know, I've told my story so many [00:02:25] times, but what caused your shift from being conventionally trained, staying in the system like [00:02:30] so many of our colleagues do, to really going on this journey into creating something [00:02:35] different and unique for everybody out there? [00:02:38] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. You know, in talking to you, like, I [00:02:40] feel like we have very similar stories that, um, when you practice medicine [00:02:45] at the level that we practiced at, um, you know, you're in the emergency room, I was in the operating room, y- [00:02:50] you're at this high adrenaline state from the moment you wake up- Yeah ... till the moment your head hits the [00:02:55] pillow at night, right? And so that adds up to years and years of living under a [00:03:00] massive amount of cortisol. And the flip side of that, too, is, like, when you're [00:03:05] working all the time, you don't have any time for self-care. [00:03:07] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:03:07] Dr. Darshan Shah: So, you know, I'm eating garbage, I'm not [00:03:10] sleeping well, I'm not exercising at all or the way I should be. And that all [00:03:15] adds up to years and years of damage as we, you know, practice medicine, which is really just [00:03:20] taking care of other sick people. Mm-hmm. We get sick ourselves. Mm-hmm. And so I ended up very sick myself on [00:03:25] multiple medications, multiple chronic diseases, including an autoimmune disease. [00:03:28] Dr. Taz: Oh, wow. [00:03:29] Dr. Darshan Shah: And, [00:03:30] um, did not find the kind of help that I really wanted from [00:03:35] even the most expensive and the most well-regarded doctors because they all had great [00:03:40] intentions, but they just wanted to do what typical medicine teaches us, which is to cover up the [00:03:45] symptoms with new, exciting pharmaceuticals, right? And so that's kind of, um, [00:03:50] where I lived for a few years, and I just kept feeling worse and worse and worse, and the [00:03:55] actual problems were not going away. And I thought that there had to be a way to [00:04:00] solve the actual problem so I don't need to be on medications forever. I can't- [00:04:03] Dr. Taz: What were some of your [00:04:05] earliest symptoms? Yeah. Just out of [00:04:06] Dr. Darshan Shah: curiosity. Yeah. I would just say, you know, the, the biggest one that [00:04:10] was really, um, like, affecting my day-to-day was I would wake up, and [00:04:15] within- 30 minutes, I was tired. [00:04:17] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:04:18] Dr. Darshan Shah: You know? [00:04:18] Dr. Taz: The fatigue. [00:04:18] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah, fatigue. Yeah. [00:04:20] Massive amounts of fatigue. And I did think I did have some level of sleep apnea back then, but not [00:04:25] severe. [00:04:25] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:04:25] Dr. Darshan Shah: It was mainly from just horrible sleep and living under a high cortisol state [00:04:30] all the time. And then I found out and went and, went on a journey of how that was affecting my [00:04:35] other hormones, including my thyroid gland, my immune system, my, um, my [00:04:40] testosterone levels, all of it. But this is all, you know, no one teaches us this in medical school. Right. You're [00:04:44] Dr. Taz: finding this [00:04:45] out [00:04:45] Dr. Darshan Shah: on your own. Right. Exactly. Right? Ugh. Yeah. Going through the journey, I know you had a journey that went through [00:04:50] integrative medicine. My journey started in functional medicine. But, you know, all different pieces of the [00:04:55] puzzle kind of finally coming together where I got myself well, and then I just thought to [00:05:00] myself, like, "Why are we not doing this for everybody? Why do we wait?" [00:05:03] Dr. Taz: And talking about it, right. [00:05:04] Dr. Darshan Shah: Right. Exactly. [00:05:05] And so- [00:05:05] Dr. Taz: Talk about functional medicine- Yeah ... a little bit because I think, you know, functional medicine is definitely [00:05:10] having a moment. Lots of people now know what functional medicine is. Mm-hmm. You [00:05:15] know, when did you first get introduced to the field of functional medicine, and how did it help you?[00:05:20] What did it do for you? [00:05:21] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. So, you know, my first introduction to functional medicine was going to a [00:05:25] course on nutrition. [00:05:25] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:05:26] Dr. Darshan Shah: Um, I knew nutrition was at the core of all of my problems because [00:05:30] I ate, you know, what was in the surgeons lounge, which was- Oh, yeah ... always garbage. I know. You know, like- [00:05:34] Dr. Taz: What was your [00:05:35] garbage of choice? I have to ask [00:05:36] Dr. Darshan Shah: 10-day-old sandwiches. Ugh. [00:05:38] Dr. Taz: Oh, okay. [00:05:39] Dr. Darshan Shah: Sandwiches- That's worse [00:05:40] than mine. ... in plastic wrapping in the fridge- Oh, God ... you know, that were there for 10 days. Okay. Got it right before [00:05:45] they- [00:05:45] Dr. Taz: Ugh ... [00:05:45] Dr. Darshan Shah: took them and threw them away. [00:05:46] Dr. Taz: Mine was Diet Coke and popcorn. [00:05:47] Dr. Darshan Shah: Oh my gosh. [00:05:50] But- Yeah. So. Yeah, it's like typical doctor's lounge food. Right. You know? Right, mm-hmm. And so, um, I knew nutrition was [00:05:55] at the core of where I could maybe have some control and fix things. [00:06:00] And wow, like the things you learn when you actually go to train as a nutritionist, [00:06:05] like, that should be a month of medical school. [00:06:07] Dr. Taz: Yes. [00:06:08] Dr. Darshan Shah: For the first time ever, I learned that [00:06:10] metabolic health was not just related to diabetes. Mm-hmm. There was an entire [00:06:15] decades prior to diabetes that I was in the middle of living in, um, [00:06:20] that was severely impacting every aspect of my health. I also learned that your [00:06:25] diet is actually affecting your hormone levels, and- [00:06:28] Dr. Taz: Shocking. [00:06:28] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah, shocking, [00:06:29] Dr. Taz: right. [00:06:30] [00:06:30] Dr. Darshan Shah: And gut health is actually a thing beyond just colon cancer, you know? These are all [00:06:35] things that, um, were completely new and mind-blowing to me, and I learned that in this [00:06:40] nutrition class. And I happened to be sitting next to someone that, um, was talking about [00:06:45] functional medicine and functional nutrition. [00:06:47] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:06:47] Dr. Darshan Shah: I did some research, um, [00:06:50] and found a course in functional medicine, um, at an institute that was just [00:06:55] formed, called IFM. [00:06:55] Dr. Taz: Yes. [00:06:56] Dr. Darshan Shah: The Institute of Functional Medicine. [00:06:56] Dr. Taz: What year is that? I'm curious. [00:06:58] Dr. Darshan Shah: This was 2000 and, [00:07:00] um, wow, '10, I think, or- Very early days ... yeah, very early days. Yeah. Yeah. And so back [00:07:05] then, Dr. Jeffrey Bland and Dr. Mark Hyman- Mm-hmm ... were teaching the classes. [00:07:08] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:07:08] Dr. Darshan Shah: So I met them. [00:07:10] I read Dr. Bland's book, Disease Delusion, and it blew my mind. Mm. It totally changed [00:07:15] everything I knew about medicine, and, um- That's where I started. And [00:07:20] everything in that book, everything I learned, I just applied to my own self, you know, [00:07:25] self-experimentation, my own physiology, and I was my own N of one [00:07:30] experiment- Right ... where I was, um, doing interventions and seeing how it changed my blood biomarkers, [00:07:35] my m- the, um, body composition, all the markers that I was [00:07:40] watching that I wanted to improve. I just never had the tools before I learned functional medicine. [00:07:44] Dr. Taz: So [00:07:45] functional medicine has, you know, from 2010 if we think forward now- Yeah ... has really [00:07:50] grown in its presence- Mm-hmm ... in name recognition. What do you attribute some of that to? [00:07:55] [00:07:55] Dr. Darshan Shah: You know, I think a lot of it has to do just with the really, um, intentional [00:08:00] way that Dr. Bland set up the whole infrastructure around functional medicine. Mm. And [00:08:05] really setting up, uh, ways to educate different types of practitioners, you know? [00:08:10] First there was PLMI, which is longevity medicine. [00:08:12] Dr. Taz: Yes. Mm-hmm. [00:08:13] Dr. Darshan Shah: And then there was, uh, IFM, which [00:08:15] is functional medicine, and giving people different ways of learning about the root [00:08:20] causes of disease and how to affect them, right? And really taking [00:08:25] people through the story of how, you know, we, we thought genetics was everything, and then [00:08:30] how does our lifestyle affect our- Environment ... expression of our genes, and [00:08:35] really painting the stories for all types of practitioners and educating them. [00:08:40] And so I think now, um, you know, you have more and more physicians that [00:08:45] are just frustrated with not... with their own health, but like I was, but also with like [00:08:50] not getting their patients healthy. [00:08:51] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:08:52] Dr. Darshan Shah: And so this is just really a, a new [00:08:55] tool set that people have and a new mindset that doctors can get [00:09:00] into on how to really help their patients. [00:09:01] Dr. Taz: You know, one of the things you shared with me privately was that, you know, [00:09:05] you had some of the most expensive care, right? Yeah. You had access to that, you [00:09:10] know, with concierge doctors. And one of the things we've noticed within our clinics is that people get very tripped [00:09:15] over, like are you guys concierge care? Are you, you know, are you this, are you that? [00:09:20] You know, what would you tell our audience to look for when they're [00:09:25] looking for the right partner? Because now we have a lot of terms. We have integrated, we [00:09:30] have concierge, we have functional, we have holistic, we have [00:09:35] wellness, you know. [00:09:36] Dr. Darshan Shah: Mm-hmm. [00:09:36] Dr. Taz: We've- Longevity. We have longevity. How could I forget that? Right. And then we've got the whole [00:09:40] menopause movement. So we've got a lot of these terms floating out there. I've taken the [00:09:45] position personally and, and from a company standpoint that we're about the whole picture- Right ... the whole [00:09:50] body, the- Right ... you know, it's not just root cause, it's looking at everything. You know, bring all those terms [00:09:55] under our umbrella. You know, where do you stand with some of what's going on in the [00:10:00] marketplace? Because it can be very confusing to the consumer in terms of who to pick, [00:10:05] you know, and who to bring with them along this ride. [00:10:07] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. And I think, you know, the biggest [00:10:10] problem is, is that you- People are trying to piece together things- Yes ... and you don't, they don't necessarily [00:10:15] find it under one roof, right? So I think what you're doing is very innovative. Um, [00:10:20] and my model is different than yours, but similar because what we're really trying to do is bring [00:10:25] everything together in one place. [00:10:26] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:10:26] Dr. Darshan Shah: Because when people try to piece different pieces of [00:10:30] this together, they end up getting frustrated- Yeah ... because just the medical model is confusing, it's [00:10:35] overwhelming, and it's, it's frustrating when you're trying to piece it together. So I don't necessarily think that seeing a [00:10:40] functional medicine practitioner is the full puzzle. [00:10:42] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:10:42] Dr. Darshan Shah: I agree. I think that's a piece of it, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And [00:10:45] so, um, we have a model that we use called Medicine 4.0- Mm-hmm ... which is bringing in [00:10:50] really deep science-enabled lifestyle medicine as one pillar. The [00:10:55] second pillar is functional medicine, which is, I always describe it, all the things I wish I had learned in medical school- Yeah ... but I didn't. [00:10:59] Dr. Taz: [00:11:00] Yeah. Mm-hmm. [00:11:00] Dr. Darshan Shah: Gut health, hormone health, toxin exposure, um, mitochondria health, et [00:11:05] cetera. The third pillar is a- A piece that I find that, [00:11:10] um, a lot of educated consumers know that there's more out there, but they just don't know where to find it, and [00:11:15] that's what I call hyper-preventative medicine, how to make sure that we're, uh, [00:11:20] pre-detecting cancer, cardiovascular disease- Mm-hmm um, uh, neurodegenerative risk [00:11:25] decades before it becomes a problem that can't be solved. And then lastly is [00:11:30] this piece of, you know, what I call longevity medicine, but these kinda more advanced therapies that people are [00:11:35] hearing about, like peptides- Yeah ... and, and also- Yeah ... um, you know, some of these advanced [00:11:40] pharmaceuticals. Um, also, uh, biohacking technologies. [00:11:45] Right, right. You know, so we try to put it all under one roof and have a unified model of how we take people through [00:11:50] this journey, right? So my advice to people is if you feel like it's [00:11:55] not getting you everything that you're looking for, then [00:12:00] you probably, you know, maybe you can find a model like ours- Right that you, people have brought it together [00:12:05] for you. But at least try to find where you wanna start, but know that there's other pieces of it. A [00:12:10] lot of it has to do around just self-educating yourself. [00:12:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah. Yeah. It's so... I feel for the consumer, for sure. It, [00:12:14] Dr. Darshan Shah: uh- [00:12:15] [00:12:15] Dr. Taz: Concierge, though, you know, you had-- And I'm not trying to knock all the concierge practices, so [00:12:20] please don't send me letters of hate when I say this. But what is the, what is the [00:12:25] misconception with concierge care that you think people are having? Why are [00:12:30] they not satisfied? You had a very expensive one. Yeah. I actually, fun story, like, I had a [00:12:35] business consultant come into our practices probably over a decade ago and say, "Oh my [00:12:40] gosh, you guys do all this stuff here. You need to go concierge, and you need to charge every- everybody [00:12:45] $25,000 a year and charge families 100 grand. You're doing more than the White House physicians." And I was like, "How [00:12:50] will I ever grow if I'm gonna- Yeah ... put myself in that, like, little box there?" [00:12:54] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. [00:12:54] Dr. Taz: [00:12:55] So what is, what is it that we maybe get right and wrong when it comes to concierge care?[00:13:00] [00:13:00] Dr. Darshan Shah: So the definition of concierge care actually started way before the functional [00:13:05] medicine movement and integrated medi- medicine movement, and that was because access to a [00:13:10] doctor that can actually sit with you and spend time with you was becoming less and less common. Yes. [00:13:15] [00:13:15] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:13:15] Dr. Darshan Shah: So people thought, "Well, okay, if my insurance is not gonna pay for a doctor that has time to spend with [00:13:20] me, I'm gonna pay them out of my own pocket so they have some time, and I have better [00:13:25] access. I don't have to wait in a waiting room for five hours and wait six months for that appointment," right? And [00:13:30] so people were paying for access that their insurance wasn't giving them. [00:13:34] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:13:34] Dr. Darshan Shah: And [00:13:35] that's because in- the insurance model was basically to drive down the cost of, [00:13:40] of what they paid p- physicians to the point where physicians had to see 100 patients- Right a day to [00:13:45] even pay their bills, right? And so it kinda broke- the traditional healthcare model [00:13:50] where a doctor would come to your house and sit with you and really, you know, uh, [00:13:55] understand what was going on and y- be able to a- talk about different aspects of your health, [00:14:00] right? And so people were paying for access. And then the [00:14:05] misconception became that those that access, and because they had time with the doctor, meant that [00:14:10] they would be doing- Something differently ... [00:14:13] Dr. Taz: more things- Yeah ... and something differently. Right. [00:14:13] Dr. Darshan Shah: And there was nothing different [00:14:15] really there. It was still the same, "If you have a symptom, I will give you a pill. Now you don't have to [00:14:20] wait six months to get it, you can just get it from me by paying $25,000 and having my cellphone [00:14:25] number." [00:14:25] Dr. Taz: Yeah. I think that's where people I see get very confused and very- Yeah ... and very tripped [00:14:30] up with everything. All right, so you've established sort of this new... You've moved through functional medicine. Mm-hmm. I'm assuming [00:14:35] you got better personally- Yeah ... and your health improved over time. Yeah. You know, what [00:14:40] was the motivation behind Next Health? Why? Tell us a little bit about [00:14:45] that as you are, you know, seeing yourself change. You probably have people talking to you about this. You're doing [00:14:50] surgery, you know, why veer over here and take a risk? [00:14:54] Dr. Darshan Shah: I mean, [00:14:55] I was just so inspired by getting people healthy. Like, you know, being a surgeon, a lot of [00:15:00] people, we do what's called a preoperative clearance, right? Mm-hmm. Like, a lot of people, they have to [00:15:05] go to their primary care doctor, and because they are not healthy- Yeah ... and we just have to make [00:15:10] sure they're not gonna die during surgery. [00:15:11] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:15:12] Dr. Darshan Shah: And so their primary care doctor sees them and gives this preoperative [00:15:15] clearance visit. And, you know, it's like, "Okay, this person has high blood pressure, but I'm gonna add another [00:15:20] medication. Um, they have diabetes, their hemoglobin A1C is too high, they're not gonna heal from [00:15:25] surgery, so I'm gonna give them another medication." And then they get cleared by being put on 10 more [00:15:30] medications, and then they do surgery. And the entire time you're in the operating room, you're like, [00:15:35] "Man, I hope this person heals. I hope this person doesn't have complications afterwards," because you're just o- [00:15:40] operating on the most- Right ... unhealthy people, right? [00:15:41] Dr. Taz: Right. Yeah. [00:15:42] Dr. Darshan Shah: And so instead, what I was doing then is, as [00:15:45] a surgeon, I was telling my patients, like, "Look, before you go to your doctor to get cleared, I want you [00:15:50] to do this with your diet. I want you to do this with your exercise routine. I [00:15:55] want you to do this with your sleep. I want you to get your hormones checked." [00:15:58] Dr. Taz: So you're doing this [00:16:00] pre- [00:16:00] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yes ... [00:16:00] Dr. Taz: pre-op? Pre-op. And people, are people listening to you? [00:16:02] Dr. Darshan Shah: They were listening and they were getting healthier, and they would-- A lot [00:16:05] of them would cancel their surgery- Wow ... because they didn't need it anymore. Yeah. And so I was like, "This is [00:16:10] amazing. Like, this is what we should be doing with everybody." [00:16:12] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:16:12] Dr. Darshan Shah: Um, and so the more [00:16:15] people that got healthy, they would refer their friends to me. For [00:16:20] health- [00:16:20] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:16:20] Dr. Darshan Shah: versus getting surgery done. [00:16:22] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:16:23] Dr. Darshan Shah: And so, you know, it just became like [00:16:25] this side business I was doing in my surgical office. [00:16:28] Dr. Taz: Uh-huh. [00:16:29] Dr. Darshan Shah: [00:16:30] And I was like, "You know, I'm just gonna bring this to a separate location and do this separately." [00:16:34] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:16:34] Dr. Darshan Shah: And [00:16:35] that's kind of how it all started. [00:16:36] Dr. Taz: Amazing. Yeah. So tell us about Next Health. [00:16:38] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. [00:16:39] Dr. Taz: You know, tell us a little bit [00:16:40] about its birth, its evolution. Yeah. It's grown now, you said, to 15 [00:16:45] locations. 15, yeah. You know, um, maybe a little bit about that journey and, [00:16:50] you know, what have been some of the biggest wins and maybe some of the hits along the way. [00:16:54] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah, yeah. [00:16:55] So I think, you know, Next Health started off as a small 1,000 square foot clinic in the [00:17:00] strip mall in West Hollywood. [00:17:01] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:17:01] Dr. Darshan Shah: And, um, it turned out, you know, back then there was no such [00:17:05] thing as, um, longevity medicine. [00:17:07] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:17:08] Dr. Darshan Shah: Functional medicine, no one knew what it was at [00:17:10] all. Right. And they were just hearing about integrative techniques and things. [00:17:13] Dr. Taz: Right. So [00:17:13] Dr. Darshan Shah: a lot of people thought we were an [00:17:15] urgent care. They would walk in- [00:17:16] Dr. Taz: Interesting ... [00:17:17] Dr. Darshan Shah: yeah, they would walk in and be like, "I, I feel terrible. I have [00:17:20] the flu." Yeah. "What can you do for me?" And we had to explain the story over and over and over [00:17:25] again about we're here to help get you healthy, get you off some of your prescription [00:17:30] medications, help you lose weight, help you not feel terrible all the time. [00:17:35] And so one person at a time, we told the story. Mm-hmm. We got them better using all the same things I talked about with [00:17:40] my surgical patients. And then we started bursting at the seams as far as space goes, [00:17:45] so then we, um, were looking for a new space- Right ... and it happened to be during [00:17:50] this time of malls trying to revive themselves. Yep. So there's a mall in Los [00:17:55] Angeles, which you're- Yeah ... very close to right now. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's called the Century City Mall. [00:17:58] Dr. Taz: Yes. [00:17:58] Dr. Darshan Shah: And they were rebuilding the whole thing, [00:18:00] and they gave us a space there, um, that was huge. I thought it was huge back then. [00:18:05] Um, and I was like, "Should this be in a mall? A clinic in a mall?" And, um, I was like, "You [00:18:10] know what? I want more people to hear about this." Mm-hmm. "And as they walk by, maybe they'll look inside." We have a [00:18:15] beautiful location. [00:18:15] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:18:16] Dr. Darshan Shah: Um, and they'll come in and get curious. And so, um, [00:18:20] one of the reasons the location was beautiful, by the way, was because I wanted it to be a doctor's [00:18:25] office that people wanted to go to. Wanted to go to. [00:18:27] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:18:27] Dr. Darshan Shah: Not an ugly place that's hard to get to. Right. Something [00:18:30] that's easy to access, that was inspiring to be inside. So we actually hired an architect [00:18:35] to, um- create our location plans, and the whole look and [00:18:40] feel was kinda like the Apple Store, which is a few- Mm-hmm ... doors down. [00:18:42] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:18:43] Dr. Darshan Shah: And so they call this a Apple Store of [00:18:45] health. [00:18:45] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:18:45] Dr. Darshan Shah: And so we did. We got super busy at that location in the Century City [00:18:50] Mall. Um, and we helped bring a lot of business into the mall. Like, Century City Mall is [00:18:55] beautiful. It's like this outdoor- [00:18:56] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:18:56] Dr. Darshan Shah: incredible- I've been there ... lifestyle center, right? And, [00:19:00] um, then that led to us have- having three more locations open, like, in rapid succession [00:19:05] in the same kind of model. [00:19:06] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:19:07] Dr. Darshan Shah: And, um, then that led to us [00:19:10] now, um, partnering with other doctors- Yeah ... and other individuals across many cities [00:19:15] across United States and Dubai to open Next Health in those places. So we have 15 locations now. [00:19:20] We'll probably have 25 by the end of this year, and just keep growing from there. [00:19:24] Dr. Taz: And are [00:19:25] you focusing in these clinics on the whole body, or is it more longevity [00:19:30] focused or biohacking? Where- where's the- Yeah ... focus when someone walks into- [00:19:33] Dr. Darshan Shah: It- it's, I think it's [00:19:35] all of those things. Okay. I think it's a whole body approach. [00:19:37] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:19:38] Dr. Darshan Shah: We have this, you know, when you [00:19:40] walk into Next Health, we have this infographic on the wall that I call the wellness wheel. [00:19:44] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:19:44] Dr. Darshan Shah: [00:19:45] And I, we always lead the conversation with, like, look, we understand there's so many different [00:19:50] practitioners out there. There's so many different things you're hearing about health, and health might seem [00:19:55] complicated, but it's not infinitely complicated. There's 12 aspects of your health that we have on [00:20:00] this wheel. [00:20:00] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:20:00] Dr. Darshan Shah: And it starts with lifestyle and then goes to functional and then to [00:20:05] preventative medicine. And we take people on this journey over the course of a year where [00:20:10] we- touch all of those aspects. [00:20:12] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:20:12] Dr. Darshan Shah: Some of them, you know, we touch with more [00:20:15] time and intentionality because that's where they're really suffering. Um, you know, s- someone might come in in [00:20:20] perimenopause- Right ... and we really focus on hormones and gut health. Other people might come in, [00:20:25] you know, wanting to make sure that they don't have the same heart attack destiny as their dad did [00:20:30] that died at 55 years old, you know? [00:20:32] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:20:32] Dr. Darshan Shah: And so we just take people through the entire journey [00:20:35] and we, we, we touch all of those pieces until they feel better, and then [00:20:40] we s- keep optimizing and optimizing using their blood work, their physical [00:20:45] measurements to make sure we're going in the right direction. [00:20:47] Dr. Taz: If you're listening to this and [00:20:50] thinking, "I know something is off in my body, but I don't know where to start," [00:20:55] this is for you. That's why I created the Circle. The Circle is my [00:21:00] private community where I and my team focus on understanding your body from [00:21:05] hormones and stress to metabolic health and longevity with real-life guidance that you [00:21:10] can actually use. This is about clarity and consistency and support [00:21:15] beyond the exam room and maybe outside of all the different appointments and experts that [00:21:20] you've been running around to. You can try the Circle with a one-month trial using the [00:21:25] promo code Podcast at wholeplus.co/circle. [00:21:30] Again, that's Whole Plus, wholeplus.co/circle. [00:21:35] All right. Let's jump back into the episode. Amazing. [00:21:38] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. [00:21:38] Dr. Taz: Let's talk for a second about [00:21:40] longevity medicine- Mm. Yep ... and that sort of rise, and kind of coupled to it, biohacking to a [00:21:45] certain extent. You know, how do you see longevity medicine? I feel like it's gotten a lot more play in [00:21:50] the last maybe year or so. Mm-hmm. You're, we're seeing a lot more discussion around... I know it's been around forever. [00:21:55] What is longevity medicine? [00:21:56] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. Y- you know, my definition of longevity medicine is really [00:22:00] how do we put health back into every single year that you're alive? Mm. So you might be alive [00:22:05] for 70 years. You might be alive for 85 years. Um, you might be alive for even just [00:22:10] 65 years. Mm-hmm. But if you are healthy until the last minute that you pass [00:22:15] away- Then you've enjoyed so many more years of life than [00:22:20] the person who spends 30 years in a nursing home struggling with Alzheimer's disease. [00:22:23] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:22:24] Dr. Darshan Shah: Right? Yeah. And so [00:22:25] I think longevity medicine's just adding that health span back into your lifespan. Now, we've done an [00:22:30] incredible job as humans, um, doubling our life expectancy in the last [00:22:35] 150 years, right? Right. And there's really great signs coming out now [00:22:40] that we might be able to bring people from a maximum [00:22:45] lifespan right now of, you know, in their 80s is where most people- Right pass away, to maybe [00:22:50] 90s, right? Right. But there's no reason to get to 90 if you're sick and decrepit- Right ... and [00:22:55] [00:22:55] Dr. Taz: frail. Who wants that, [00:22:55] Dr. Darshan Shah: right? Nobody wants that. [00:22:56] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:22:56] Dr. Darshan Shah: So I think longevity medicine is just really impacting health [00:23:00] span for as long as possible, and then not hitting a brick wall of cancer, [00:23:05] heart attack, or, you know, Alzheimer's disease or cognitive impairment along that [00:23:10] journey as well. And so we can do that now. I think we have the technology in 2026 [00:23:15] to be able to keep people healthy until that last moment, but they have to do [00:23:20] something early, and they have to start, they have to start early with routines and habits [00:23:25] that are done consistently to get there. [00:23:28] Dr. Taz: Over time. [00:23:28] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. [00:23:29] Dr. Taz: So I'm sure you [00:23:30] saw the recent study that came out that said there are, like, two, like, peak ages- Yeah where health really [00:23:35] shifts, right? One was 44, and the other was 60. Wow. And by really [00:23:40] getting ahead of your health prior to maybe one of those ages, there's a significant difference in terms [00:23:45] of what your future decades look like. You know, what are some of the things that people need [00:23:50] to be dialed into, you know, when we're thinking longevity and optimization [00:23:55] into your 70s and 80s? Are there, like, three or four core principles that you're like, "Don't forget [00:24:00] about these guys, and make sure you're paying attention to it"? [00:24:02] Dr. Darshan Shah: Absolutely. So I think that, you know, number [00:24:05] one is you have to understand that the biggest rocks that you can put into [00:24:10] place before you start working on all the pebbles is your lifestyle. And [00:24:15] lifestyle medicine now is so much more [00:24:20] enabled by technology- Mm-hmm ... than it was even 10 years ago. We have wearable devices. We [00:24:25] have ubiquitous access to your biomarkers. [00:24:29] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:24:29] Dr. Darshan Shah: Right? [00:24:30] There are scales at your home that send a little electrical current through your body and [00:24:35] tell you how much skeletal muscle mass you have. I think people need to be enabled with the modern-day [00:24:40] technology to understand what are the key performance indicators of their health, and be able [00:24:45] to track them and follow them over time. So that's- [00:24:47] Dr. Taz: So it looks like you need to be a CEO of your health. [00:24:49] Dr. Darshan Shah: Exactly. You know? That's the [00:24:50] tagline I use [00:24:50] Dr. Taz: all the time. Look at the KPIs. Look at the KPIs of your health. Right, right. So what are those? [00:24:53] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. [00:24:53] Dr. Taz: Like, what, if you had to [00:24:55] line them out- Mm-hmm ... what would you say they are? [00:24:57] Dr. Darshan Shah: Okay, so I would say there's a set of [00:25:00] blood tests that everyone should know about. Those are not your typical blood tests that you get [00:25:05] from a primary care doctor's office visit. Um, sometimes they're ordered when you're symptomatic, but you need to be [00:25:10] checking them way out of time. Metabolic health, as we both know- Yes ... you know, 90% of Americans [00:25:15] are not metabolically healthy. Most people wait until they get diagnosed with diabetes to even address it. [00:25:20] [00:25:20] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:25:20] Dr. Darshan Shah: Um, hemoglobin A1C and fasting insulin are two markers there that I have all [00:25:25] people measure, measure frequently, and measure early, and understand what they [00:25:30] mean. [00:25:30] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:25:30] Dr. Darshan Shah: Hemoglobin A1C being a three-month average of your blood sugar, and fasting insulin [00:25:35] level being exactly how much insulin you're making first thing in the morning. And, and so when [00:25:40] you know what these numbers are, you understand that they have optimal levels, they have- [00:25:45] Fair levels, which are considered normal, and then you have levels that are n- that are, [00:25:50] um, now diagnostic for disease- Disease, yeah like pre-diabetes or diabetes, right? Where [00:25:54] Dr. Taz: do you like [00:25:55] a A1C? [00:25:56] Dr. Darshan Shah: I like to keep it around 5.2. [00:25:57] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:25:58] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. [00:25:59] Dr. Taz: [00:26:00] That's kind of our, our... This seems to be the universal consensus- [00:26:01] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah ... for optimization. Yeah, 5.2 is a- Yeah ... really great place to aim, you know? [00:26:04] Dr. Taz: [00:26:05] Yeah, yeah. [00:26:05] Dr. Darshan Shah: I, I'm not satisfied with like a 5.4- No ... 5.5. [00:26:08] Dr. Taz: No. [00:26:08] Dr. Darshan Shah: To me, that's, you're halfway to [00:26:10] being pre-diabetic- Right at 5.7, which is diagnostic for pre-diabetes. So that's one [00:26:15] category. Then the other category is infla- inflammation. Mm-hmm. And so inflammatory markers, like [00:26:20] highly sensitive C-reactive protein- Yes ... homocysteine, tumor necrosis factor [00:26:25] alpha. Like, these are some of the ones that we look at there. We look at hormones. I think everyone needs to know what [00:26:30] their hormone levels are. Um, not just sex hormones, but also thyroid and cortisol levels. [00:26:35] And then we also, um, look at markers of gut health as well. [00:26:39] Dr. Taz: Which [00:26:40] markers [00:26:40] Dr. Darshan Shah: do you [00:26:40] Dr. Taz: like for [00:26:40] Dr. Darshan Shah: health? So, so I actually, I actually really like, and this is more on the functional medicine side- Yeah like [00:26:45] zonulin levels. Yeah, [00:26:46] Dr. Taz: mm-hmm. [00:26:46] Dr. Darshan Shah: So we look at that, and we also look at MP-LPS, which is telling us how much [00:26:50] your body is reacting to bacteria, uh, fragments that are making it through your gut lining as well. [00:26:55] Yeah. [00:26:55] Dr. Taz: And by putting that together, first of all, how early is early? Like, when should people start [00:27:00] looking and maybe tracking some of these things? [00:27:01] Dr. Darshan Shah: You know, to step into it, I would say at least [00:27:05] in your 30s. 30s, yeah. But I do believe there's gonna be a world where adolescents are checking this as [00:27:10] well. Yeah. It's, you can never be too early. I think diabetes starts in adolescence, you [00:27:15] know? Um, a lot of the diseases that we're dealing with start in adolescence. [00:27:18] Dr. Taz: Well, we're seeing the disease burden shift [00:27:20] down, too- Yeah ... which is a little concerning. Cancer rates- Very concerning ... autoimmune disease rates- Yeah ... [00:27:25] all of these, and even like the low hormone rates all shifting down- Right ... from like the late 30s, [00:27:30] 40s down into like the late 20s, early 30s. So- Exactly ... it's [00:27:35] definitely affecting health span for the generations to come. [00:27:38] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. [00:27:38] Dr. Taz: So, you know, if someone is [00:27:40] being good about checking these and paying attention to it, would you call that layer one [00:27:45] of longevity and, you know, sort of being proactive about your health? What are sort of [00:27:50] the emerging- [00:27:51] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah ... [00:27:51] Dr. Taz: thoughts and technologies in this field? I'm, I'm so [00:27:55] curious about your opinion on some of what we see going out there right now. [00:27:57] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. So I would say layer one [00:28:00] is really just taking control of your own health, like getting to the mindset to not [00:28:05] outsource your health to the insurance-provided primary care doctor and [00:28:10] understanding what these markers are, checking them, watching them, understanding why they're [00:28:15] important, how to affect them. That's layer one, right? It's really just being- [00:28:20] Responsible for your own biology- [00:28:22] Dr. Taz: Mm ... [00:28:22] Dr. Darshan Shah: I think, right? Um, by the way, just to be [00:28:25] complete on that, I don't wanna forget that it's not just blood tests. There's also, um, other [00:28:30] measurements that you can do at home. Simple ones, like just putting a tape measure- Yeah around your abdomen [00:28:35] and understanding your waist-to-hip ratio. Getting a special scale, like I mentioned earlier, to measure [00:28:40] skeletal muscle mass. I think also measuring your own blood pressure, even in your 20s, is a really good [00:28:45] idea at home. [00:28:46] Dr. Taz: All great hacks. [00:28:46] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. [00:28:47] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:28:47] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah, exactly. So then layer number two [00:28:50] then- [00:28:50] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm [00:28:50] Dr. Darshan Shah: is what I call, um, hyper-preventative medicine. So, you know, we have preventative [00:28:55] medicine in typical medicine, which is more population-based- Right ... which means that- [00:28:59] Dr. Taz: The law [00:29:00] of averages. [00:29:00] Dr. Darshan Shah: Right, the law of averages. Yeah, yeah. So everyone should have a colonoscopy at age 40. [00:29:05] Um, you should be getting a, you know, a PSA level if you're a guy, um, in your [00:29:10] 50s, et cetera. But that's a lot of times waiting way too long, right? So I [00:29:15] think being more proactive and checking some of these markers earlier [00:29:20] can be very helpful. So what do we look at? So one of the things that, um, [00:29:25] is a perfect example of this is cardiovascular disease. Mm. The number one risk [00:29:30] of d- death comes from heart attacks. Mm-hmm. Right? The sad truth is that 50% [00:29:35] of people don't even know they have heart disease until they get their first heart attack. Yeah. [00:29:40] And 50% of those people die from their heart attack. That's why it's the number one cause of death, [00:29:45] and this is for men and women. Mm-hmm. [00:29:47] Dr. Taz: Right? [00:29:48] Dr. Darshan Shah: And- [00:29:50] That's because we look at risk factors, and we go looking for [00:29:55] heart disease way too late. A lot of people are very familiar with their cholesterol levels, right? They're [00:30:00] looking at their LDL level- Right ... they're looking at their total cholesterol, [00:30:05] and these are all 1980s markers that we've had forever. [00:30:07] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:30:08] Dr. Darshan Shah: Why not start looking at some of the newer [00:30:10] markers like ApoB- [00:30:11] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:30:11] Dr. Darshan Shah: right, or LP little a, and understanding kind of how [00:30:15] those add up to their cardiovascular risk? But what's even better than knowing your risk [00:30:20] factors, which cholesterol is one of multiple risk factors for getting heart disease, is [00:30:25] just going to look at your heart. [00:30:26] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:30:26] Dr. Darshan Shah: Look at the blood vessels of your heart and see what's going on. So we have [00:30:30] scans now that are inexpensive that we can see if you have plaque developing or [00:30:35] not. [00:30:35] Dr. Taz: Oh, wow. [00:30:35] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah, so we get-- we tell people to get a coronary CT calcium [00:30:40] score at age 40, whether you're a man or a woman. [00:30:42] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:30:42] Dr. Darshan Shah: Just get a baseline c- calcium score. They [00:30:45] cost, like, $100. Mm-hmm. And they tell us if you have plaque developing in your heart or not. I can't [00:30:50] tell you the number of people in their 40s that have plaque developing- Wow in their heart- [00:30:53] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:30:53] Dr. Darshan Shah: already. And so it's a [00:30:55] really important test to just know kind of where you're at. Yeah. [00:30:57] Dr. Taz: That's so interesting. We ordered those, too. Yeah. [00:31:00] And my guideline has been a little bit later, but I may push it, I may push it [00:31:05] earlier- Yeah, you'll be surprised ... based on what you're saying because- Yeah people are laying down plaque, and w- and we're seeing that. [00:31:10] Now, there are other risk factors for heart disease. Mm-hmm. What else [00:31:15] do folks need to be paying attention to, and how do you interpret an ApoB and an LP little a- Yeah ... out of [00:31:20] curiosity? [00:31:20] Dr. Darshan Shah: So what I always tell my patients is just because you have high [00:31:25] cholesterol doesn't mean you're gonna get-- have plaque, and a lot of people with normal or [00:31:30] low h- you know, of, of cholesterol that's only slightly high have a lot of [00:31:35] plaque. So why is that? Right. It's obviously because heart disease is [00:31:40] multifactorial- Yes ... meaning your metabolic health has a lot to do with it. Your stress [00:31:45] levels have a lot to do with it. Your level of blood pressure, hypertension, has a [00:31:50] lot to do with it because all of these affect what's called your endothelium- Mm that, that [00:31:55] one cell layer thick covering on the inside of your arteries, right? So [00:32:00] once that gets damaged, then the cholesterol enters your blood vessel wall and creates plaque. [00:32:05] So all of these things that we're, um, talking about have to [00:32:10] do with heart disease as well. [00:32:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:32:11] Dr. Darshan Shah: Right? [00:32:12] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:32:12] Dr. Darshan Shah: So that's why I think that, you know, the, the way I [00:32:15] tell people to look at their cholesterol levels is to, of course, you need to look at them [00:32:20] but only realize they're one piece of the puzzle of heart disease. [00:32:24] Dr. Taz: Well, you [00:32:25] know, I'm thinking about you as a surgeon. Mm-hmm. You know, uh, what did you see on the [00:32:30] operating table over and over again- Yeah ... that you, knowing what you know today- [00:32:35] You know that you would not be seeing that anymore [00:32:37] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. I always tell people, you know, like [00:32:40] in 2026, if you really do things right and you start in your 30s and 40s, [00:32:45] there's zero reason for you to die of a heart attack. [00:32:47] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:32:48] Dr. Darshan Shah: Right? And that's a powerful statement- [00:32:49] Dr. Taz: That's [00:32:50] huge ... [00:32:50] Dr. Darshan Shah: because number one reason people are dying today in 2026 is heart disease and [00:32:55] heart attacks, right? Mm-hmm. So, and the reason is, is because in surgery we would see all [00:33:00] the time, I did so many of what's called carotid endarterectomies. [00:33:03] Dr. Taz: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, [00:33:03] Dr. Darshan Shah: yeah. People getting strokes because [00:33:05] they have plaque that's built up in their blood vessels, their carotid arteries going to their brain. Mm. [00:33:10] Right? And that's because no one went looking, and these people live with this forever, right? [00:33:15] And so I think the moment you know that you have plaque developing- You're crazy [00:33:20] if you don't start doing something about it, right? Right, right. You're like, why would you wanna keep this developing till you lead to a [00:33:25] stroke or heart attack? Right. Right? Yeah. So I would just tell everyone, like, go have the scans [00:33:30] done, have the markers done, and be proactive and do them more frequently and sooner. [00:33:35] [00:33:35] Dr. Taz: Let's, uh, you know, one of the things we've seen in the longevity world, [00:33:40] biohacking world, you know, there are two, two questions I have for you. Let's do the first one. [00:33:45] So what is the difference between women's longevity- [00:33:48] Dr. Darshan Shah: Mm-hmm ... [00:33:49] Dr. Taz: and men's [00:33:50] longevity? Mm-hmm. Is there a distinction that you make? I know that people are trying to make that distinction, but I'm curious if you make [00:33:55] one. [00:33:55] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah, I would say that, you know, women, um, and men both have different [00:34:00] reasons that they age, and we need to be very [00:34:05] mindful about what those reasons are. Heart disease is another, um, one that we should [00:34:10] talk about. I mean, the other obvious one is obviously hormones, right? Right, right, right. But let's talk [00:34:13] Dr. Taz: about [00:34:13] Dr. Darshan Shah: heart disease. [00:34:15] Women have different reasons they have heart attacks than men do. Some of them have [00:34:20] plaque. Some of them also have what's called small vessel blood disease, right? Mm. Small vessel [00:34:25] disease, and so that means that the, the microcirculation of their heart is actually [00:34:30] suffering before they even get plaque. [00:34:32] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:34:32] Dr. Darshan Shah: This is why they have different symptoms of heart disease. They [00:34:35] don't get the typical, you know, chest pain- Right ... breast crushing that goes down their left arm.[00:34:40] They will actually have, like, headaches, fatigue, is because they have microvascular disease as [00:34:45] well. A lot of it is depend- i- is due to low estrogen levels. [00:34:48] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:34:48] Dr. Darshan Shah: And so understanding [00:34:50] that what we also do for all of our patients, men and women, is we measure the health of their [00:34:55] microvascular circulation as well. And a lot of times we'll find women have microvascular disease, and then we address [00:35:00] that instead of, um... Not instead of, but in addition to [00:35:05] looking at their, the big blood vessels in the heart as well. [00:35:07] Dr. Taz: Interesting. [00:35:07] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. [00:35:07] Dr. Taz: Are there any other factors that separate men from [00:35:10] women other than ob- the obvious? The hormones I think are the biggest, but anything else? [00:35:13] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah, I would say also, [00:35:15] you know, if you look at, um, and this is related back to hormones, I would say the risk of frailty in women is [00:35:20] much higher as well because women get really bad [00:35:25] osteoporosis and muscle loss- [00:35:27] Dr. Taz: Mm ... [00:35:27] Dr. Darshan Shah: as they age as well. A lot of that is due to lower [00:35:30] estrogen levels. Um, and you know, there's a whole, there's a whole bunch [00:35:35] we could talk about. Right, [00:35:35] Dr. Taz: right. [00:35:35] Dr. Darshan Shah: Hormone replacement therapy and estrogen and et cetera, but there's also [00:35:40] this kind of notion that women don't wanna get big muscles, right? Right, right, yeah. And [00:35:45] so I think, you know, refocusing our attention on, um, [00:35:50] creating good skeletal muscle health in women is also really important. [00:35:53] Dr. Taz: What's a biohacker?[00:35:55] [00:35:55] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah, you know, I, I think- Help [00:35:56] Dr. Taz: me with that. Yeah. Help me. Yeah. I'm just like, bro [00:36:00] biohackers. What, what are they doing? They seem to be doing something all the time. [00:36:04] Dr. Darshan Shah: Right. [00:36:04] Dr. Taz: What's [00:36:05] happening there? [00:36:05] Dr. Darshan Shah: So my definition of biohacker- Yeah ... is, uh, people that on their [00:36:10] own bodies are trying different moda- modalities to see what's [00:36:15] working for them and what's not working for them. [00:36:16] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:36:17] Dr. Darshan Shah: So let's use, like, Bryan Johnson. Yes. He's, he's- Yeah, [00:36:19] Dr. Taz: let's talk about that ... [00:36:19] Dr. Darshan Shah: [00:36:20] he's a buddy of mine. Yeah, yeah. He comes to our clinics. Yeah. I know him. [00:36:22] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:36:23] Dr. Darshan Shah: I obviously don't think everyone needs [00:36:25] to do what Bryan Johnson's doing. Right. But I love his model. [00:36:27] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:36:27] Dr. Darshan Shah: His model is like, look, I'm the most measured [00:36:30] man in history. I'm looking at all of my markers all of the time, [00:36:35] ridiculously frequently, right? [00:36:35] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:36:36] Dr. Darshan Shah: And I'm gonna be trying different things, and I'm gonna report back to you what's working for me. [00:36:40] [00:36:40] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:36:41] Dr. Darshan Shah: I think the piece that people miss is they don't need to be doing all the things that he's [00:36:45] doing. [00:36:45] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:36:45] Dr. Darshan Shah: And the things that are working for him might not work for you, right? But the [00:36:50] mindset is correct. It's like you should be following certain numbers. You should be trying different [00:36:55] things, and the ones that work, you wanna lean into. The ones that don't work, don't waste your time or money [00:37:00] on them. Mm. Right? And so I think if you look at biohacking in that way, [00:37:05] then you can have- A really good positive mindset around [00:37:10] what I call the N of one methodology. Mm-hmm. Understanding what's working on yourself and really taking [00:37:15] back control of your health again. [00:37:16] Dr. Taz: Do you think Bryan Johnson's the face of biohacking these days? [00:37:20] [00:37:20] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah, you know, I think, I think he's definitely, um, made himself the face of biohacking- Yeah ... for sure. Yeah. But I [00:37:25] think there's hundreds of thousands of bioha- we see them in our clinic all the time. Yeah. [00:37:30] And another thing I like about biohackers too is that they've gone through a lot [00:37:35] of the health journey that are foundational. Like, they've really got their [00:37:40] diet, lifestyle- They've done layer [00:37:41] Dr. Taz: one [00:37:41] Dr. Darshan Shah: Exactly. They've done layer [00:37:43] Dr. Taz: two. Exactly. [00:37:43] Dr. Darshan Shah: They've graduated basically. And [00:37:45] now they wanna know- Right ... like, what's next, right? And so if you can get yourself to that place where you're [00:37:50] trying what's next, I would say biohacking is the tip of the pyramid, right? The, the base of the pyramid, [00:37:55] the foundation, is always your lifestyle. Then the next layer is gonna be some of the [00:38:00] more functional, under-the-hood things that we talk about- Right which is, um, you know, your [00:38:05] hormones, your gut health, your emotional health, really getting all that, um, in, [00:38:10] in the right place. And then the biohacking's at the tip. [00:38:12] Dr. Taz: Is kind of at the tip of that. [00:38:13] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. [00:38:14] Dr. Taz: So let's talk about [00:38:15] what's out there, because there's- Yeah ... a lot that's out there right now. Mm-hmm. And I'm curious of your opinion. And let's just start [00:38:20] with some of the wearables. Yeah. Because there are [00:38:21] Dr. Darshan Shah: a lot of wearables now. [00:38:21] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. And, and there are people [00:38:25] biohacking by, you know, as I wear my Oura Ring, like- Yeah ... you know, looking at their HRV- Right ... [00:38:30] or looking at their glucose levels with a Dexcom or s- you know, one of those things. Yeah. [00:38:35] Um, what is the role of wearables in longevity, biohacking, [00:38:40] the health picture? What's your opinion of those? [00:38:43] Dr. Darshan Shah: I mean, my opinion is [00:38:45] everyone needs to have a wearable. [00:38:46] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:38:47] Dr. Darshan Shah: I'll be very- So you're [00:38:47] Dr. Taz: in. Yeah. [00:38:48] Dr. Darshan Shah: You're a wearable in. I'll be [00:38:50] very much, like, black and white on that. [00:38:51] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:38:52] Dr. Darshan Shah: And look, I, I get it. Like, there is data [00:38:55] anxiety- Yes that some people have. Yes. Right? [00:38:57] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:38:57] Dr. Darshan Shah: But it's also like saying that, "I don't wanna [00:39:00] look at the dashboard of my car when I'm driving because I have low gas anxiety." [00:39:03] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:39:04] Dr. Darshan Shah: Like, you need to know [00:39:05] when you're gonna run out of gas. [00:39:06] Dr. Taz: You [00:39:06] Dr. Darshan Shah: should know, yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah. Exactly. You need to know how fast you're going so you're not breaking the [00:39:10] speed limit or you're not going too slow, right? Like, not having the data around what your body is doing [00:39:15] internally, I think, puts you at a severe disadvantage for your long-term health. [00:39:18] Dr. Taz: Mm. Right? So [00:39:20] do you have a favorite wearable? [00:39:21] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah, I like the Whoop. That's one I wear. That's the one you do. I, I used to wear the Oura. Yeah. I like the [00:39:25] Oura too. I like the Fitbit. Um, i- it's less expensive. It also gives you good data. [00:39:29] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:39:29] Dr. Darshan Shah: I don't [00:39:30] think the Apple Watch gives you enough data, um, and you just have to charge it way too much. Right. But it's also a great, [00:39:35] great one. I like Garmin. I, I mentioned all of them because I just like having the data. Yeah, [00:39:39] Dr. Taz: yeah. [00:39:39] Dr. Darshan Shah: [00:39:40] And here's what I'll tell people that have data anxiety is, like, you don't need to look at the data if you don't want to. Set it in. But definitely, [00:39:45] yeah, find- [00:39:45] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:39:46] Dr. Darshan Shah: a partner that's gonna look at it with you. [00:39:48] Dr. Taz: Mm. Right? It's almost like weight anxiety where [00:39:50] women won't get on the scale- Yeah ... right? Or- Right ... you know, 'cause you don't wanna know, but how else do you [00:39:55] track, you [00:39:55] Dr. Darshan Shah: know? Right, right. [00:39:56] Dr. Taz: Well, after wearables, the other big trend [00:40:00] recently, and if there are other trends I'm missing- Mm please let us know. But the other big thing that everybody's talking about [00:40:05] right now are peptides. Yeah. Right? Peptides, cryo, sauna, red [00:40:10] light, IV therapy. Mm-hmm. Where do they fit in- [00:40:13] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah ... [00:40:13] Dr. Taz: to the picture? Because [00:40:15] it can start to get exhausting, and it can start to feel like you're not doing enough. [00:40:19] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. [00:40:20] I think that, um, each one of those deserves, you know, an entire [00:40:25] podcast episode obviously. Probably, yeah. But we can... But I think more foundationally is talking [00:40:30] about how do they fit into your health journey, right? I think you have to look at them as [00:40:35] the tip of the pyramid. I think if you haven't done any of the other things, there's no peptide that's gonna save [00:40:40] you from eating ultra-processed food every day. [00:40:42] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:40:42] Dr. Darshan Shah: Right? There's no amount of time that you're gonna spend in [00:40:45] a r- red light chamber that is going to protect you from having [00:40:50] really bad inflammation, right? Yeah. It might help a little bit, but [00:40:55] addressing the root causes first is, is really, um, number one. [00:41:00] Number two, the way I look at all of these modalities, like hot/cold contrast therapy, for example- [00:41:04] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm, [00:41:04] Dr. Darshan Shah: mm-hmm [00:41:05] um, red light beds, like, we have all these things at our locations. [00:41:09] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:41:09] Dr. Darshan Shah: [00:41:10] Um, we have this incredible chamber called the immortal chamber. Yeah, I [00:41:12] Dr. Taz: think I've seen it. [00:41:13] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah, you should try it- Yeah ... while you're here. [00:41:14] Dr. Taz: Wait, I've [00:41:15] tried it. I... It was at a hotel I was staying at. Amazing. Yeah, and I tried it. [00:41:18] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah, yeah. [00:41:18] Dr. Taz: What do you think of it? [00:41:19] Dr. Darshan Shah: I [00:41:20] love it. Yeah. Like, you're in there for 30 minutes- Yeah ... and you're, like, in this meditative, deep, restful state. [00:41:24] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:41:25] [00:41:25] Dr. Darshan Shah: It's almost like getting a massage. Like, these are all self-care activities- Right ... that really make you [00:41:30] just feel good. And if you feel good and you're taking care of yourself, and you're putting [00:41:35] yourself in that parasympathetic state, and you're reducing your stress, and you're doing this on a [00:41:40] regular basis- [00:41:41] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm [00:41:41] Dr. Darshan Shah: then it adds up over time, right? Mm. And so that's how I kinda look at it, is [00:41:45] just moments of self-care that you're putting into your life. Do [00:41:47] Dr. Taz: you get into the science of it, that cryo does [00:41:50] this- No ... and sauna does this, and red light does that, and how do people pick and choose [00:41:55] between all that's available out there? [00:41:57] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah, I think, you know, there's [00:42:00] relatively, um, a big body of science around some of these [00:42:05] technologies. Um, for example, sauna therapy has massive studies done in Finland, [00:42:10] where they have an incredible health registry, and you can see that the people that do sauna three to [00:42:15] four times a week, um, for 20 minutes, they have a much lower risk of heart disease, much lower risk of [00:42:20] a neurodegenerative disease. Mm-hmm. So really good data there. There's also data [00:42:25] around, um, having l- lower heavy metal levels, for example, by using a [00:42:30] sauna. I think cryotherapy and cold therapy, there's less data- Yeah ... but people feel great [00:42:35] after doing it. [00:42:35] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:42:35] Dr. Darshan Shah: Some people do. And so the hot/cold contrast also has some data [00:42:40] around lowering inflammation levels. So, um, I l- I think there's good enough [00:42:45] data that I think if it makes you feel good- Do it ... and it's a self-care moment, like, and you've done everything else, and you [00:42:50] have time and money available- [00:42:51] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:42:51] Dr. Darshan Shah: do it, right? Give it a try ... [00:42:53] Dr. Taz: you know, one of the things we're [00:42:55] working really hard at in our clinics is trying to help people not have [00:43:00] health anxiety, and also to narrow kind of, like, what they need to do. Like, [00:43:05] this is a plan for you. I know everybody on Instagram or TikTok is doing this, but this is the plan for [00:43:10] you. Yeah. You know? What do you say to people who have-- who are just feeling overwhelmed [00:43:15] by- Yeah ... all the options, all the terms, some of which we've covered today, you [00:43:20] know? What would you tell them? How do they navigate this kind of [00:43:25] excessive information world, excessive option world, but still be [00:43:30] proactive about their health and the health of their families? [00:43:32] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. I think, um, there's three [00:43:35] things I'll tell people. Number one is, like, why you and I exist, right? We're partners in [00:43:40] this journey for people. They don't have to do it themselves. They don't have to isolate themself and try to [00:43:45] figure it all out, right? I think finding a partner that can-- that knows, [00:43:50] that's created a structure around how they can help you, and they look at the data for [00:43:55] you- [00:43:55] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:43:55] Dr. Darshan Shah: and with you, and they guide you by focusing on what's important first, [00:44:00] um, and then taking you down kind of the rabbit hole when you need to go down the rabbit hole, that can solve [00:44:05] that issue. [00:44:05] Dr. Taz: And is that partner necessarily ChatGPT or Claude? [00:44:08] Dr. Darshan Shah: I mean, ChatGPT and Claude [00:44:10] can be helpful, but I do think you need someone- Need some real person ... that's trained and, uh, have a human- Yeah ... that really... [00:44:15] 'Cause after you talk to Claude or ChatGPT, you're gonna have more questions. [00:44:18] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:44:18] Dr. Darshan Shah: And that's where the [00:44:20] human practitioners really come in. [00:44:21] Dr. Taz: Where is, uh, where does AI fit in to this [00:44:25] equation, out of curiosity? So we've got a lot of people, in fact, there was a patient or two who's like, [00:44:30] "You're wrong. Claude told me this. Chat told me that," and then you're, like, trying to reason with them and be like, "No, no, [00:44:35] no. You didn't tell them the whole story." Right. 'Cause right, the power of many of these tools is how you prompt. [00:44:39] Dr. Darshan Shah: [00:44:40] Right. [00:44:40] Dr. Taz: You know, so where... Like, do you agree with-- And I think [00:44:45] it's already been proven, honestly, now that I'm saying this, in the last year, that AI is not gonna replace humans. Mm-hmm. [00:44:50] It has limitations, you know. But what is the right usage of AI [00:44:55] for the patient, and what's the right usage of AI for the doctor? [00:44:59] Dr. Darshan Shah: You know, we're [00:45:00] really, um, enabling our doctors by using AI. So we have [00:45:05] many practitioners that work with us, um, at our clinics, and what is-- what [00:45:10] AI has really done is it's reduced their administrative burden so that they have more [00:45:15] time to spend with the patients. Yeah. Right? W- writing notes, typing stuff in, et cetera.[00:45:20] Secondly, what it's done is allow them to crunch a lot more data, [00:45:25] um, and look at it more 10,000-foot view- [00:45:28] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:45:29] Dr. Darshan Shah: rather than [00:45:30] pulling up individual reports all the time. And so we built an entire AI system for [00:45:35] our practitioners to get real trends and real, um, [00:45:40] relationships between all the data- Amazing 'cause there's so many data points. Yeah, [00:45:42] Dr. Taz: yeah. [00:45:43] Dr. Darshan Shah: And lastly, what I think [00:45:45] AI has also helped our practitioners do is kinda lose some [00:45:50] of the blind spots. [00:45:51] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:45:51] Dr. Darshan Shah: So when you look at the data and [00:45:55] what the AI is seeing, m- it might be something that the practitioner might not have [00:46:00] considered, and sometimes it's wrong, but sometimes it's right, and it should be a consideration. Mm. So I think [00:46:05] that's how it's helping our practitioners. Now, for patients, I think it also does help [00:46:10] them prepare for the conversations much better, right? So they-- maybe they're putting their blood [00:46:15] test into an AI model. They're asking it things, and they're learning [00:46:20] about concepts like inflammation. Right. Like, "Here's your blood test. It's showing you have inflammation." [00:46:25] A lot of people don't even know what inflammation is. [00:46:26] Dr. Taz: Right, [00:46:27] Dr. Darshan Shah: right. Right? We live in a silo- [00:46:28] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:46:28] Dr. Darshan Shah: where we talk about it every day. All the [00:46:29] Dr. Taz: [00:46:30] time, [00:46:30] Dr. Darshan Shah: right. Yeah. Exactly. So they're like, "What's inflammation?" Yeah. You know? Um, and then they learn, [00:46:35] and they ask, and they ask questions like, "What is inflammation? Where is it coming [00:46:40] from? How do I get rid of it?" And they're much more educated before they're seeing you, [00:46:45] right? Mm. I feel like a lot of times as doctors, we're seeing people with zero education and health [00:46:50] knowledge. Spending a [00:46:50] Dr. Taz: lot of time bringing them up to par, [00:46:51] Dr. Darshan Shah: yeah. Exactly. [00:46:52] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:46:52] Dr. Darshan Shah: And they get glazed over- Yeah because there's a lot to [00:46:55] talk about. [00:46:55] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:46:55] Dr. Darshan Shah: But when you're at home on your computer or your phone and you're having these [00:47:00] conversations in real time, I think, um, it's a lot less, um... [00:47:05] I think, I think it's a lot easier to get the information you need and come more armed to those [00:47:08] Dr. Taz: conversations. So is there, like-- Is there something you [00:47:10] would tell a patient? Like, "Do this before going to your doctor." [00:47:13] Dr. Darshan Shah: Um, you know, I think that, [00:47:15] um- There's... The people that have their [00:47:20] blood tests with them and they can put them into ChatGPT, I think that's a good thing to do. [00:47:23] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:47:24] Dr. Darshan Shah: Um, or Claude. Put [00:47:25] them in there and just start looking at it with the AI and understanding it better. [00:47:30] Definitely like getting an education about what it's showing, right? [00:47:33] Dr. Taz: So that you're one step ahead- [00:47:34] Dr. Darshan Shah: One step ahead [00:47:34] Dr. Taz: [00:47:35] when you come in ... when you get into the exam room. [00:47:36] Dr. Darshan Shah: Exactly. [00:47:36] Dr. Taz: But the exam room is still important. [00:47:38] Dr. Darshan Shah: Very important. [00:47:39] Dr. Taz: It's [00:47:40] still, you know, I would- Right ... I think that's been where I bristle a little bit- Yeah with some of what I've seen, is that [00:47:45] the energy that transpires in an exam room between a practitioner and the [00:47:50] patient is something you cannot replicate- [00:47:52] Dr. Darshan Shah: Not at all ... [00:47:52] Dr. Taz: in any technology. Right. The technology, I think, can [00:47:55] make us better, faster, sometimes even smarter because we didn't think of something, [00:48:00] but that's not where healing happens. No. Healing really happens in this exchange, you know, [00:48:05] where you can guide somebody to their next step, you know? Yeah. So, so that's sort of [00:48:10] what I see. What is your hope for the future of medicine? Where do you hope we will [00:48:15] evolve to? You and I are trying to create things. You have. We continue to do [00:48:20] so, of, you know, creating things like medical homes and places where people [00:48:25] can engage in this journey. Where do you think we are in, like, the big [00:48:30] picture- Yeah ... in the big ecosystem that exists out, out there? [00:48:34] Dr. Darshan Shah: So right now where [00:48:35] we are in 2026 is every city in this country has over [00:48:40] 1,000 primary care doctor offices. All of those primary care doctors are [00:48:45] overwhelmed because they're seeing 50-plus patients a day, and they're not spending [00:48:50] time with people that need their care. And the reason that has occurred [00:48:55] is because way too many people wait way too long to, um, [00:49:00] see a doctor. [00:49:01] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:49:01] Dr. Darshan Shah: And they end up having a disease, and now they have multiple [00:49:05] medications that need to be managed, and they're just getting sicker and sicker, right? And so, [00:49:10] um, that's the place that we are right now. My hope for the future is that [00:49:15] instead of having 1,000 primary care doctor, um, offices in the country, uh, for every [00:49:20] city, we have 1,000 of what we're developing. [00:49:23] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:49:23] Dr. Darshan Shah: Right? [00:49:24] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:49:24] Dr. Darshan Shah: And [00:49:25] every person has their holistic medicine 4.0 longevity, whatever you [00:49:30] wanna call it, physician from the very beginning, from [00:49:35] adolescence-- childhood, adolescence, 20s, 30s, [00:49:40] 40s, 50s, that is keeping them healthy, enabled with their data, enabled with AI, [00:49:45] um, enabled all the tools that people can use to stay healthy. And [00:49:50] on the off chance somehow, somehow you get diagnosed with a disease, [00:49:55] it gets diagnosed so early- Quickly, [00:49:57] Dr. Taz: yeah ... [00:49:57] Dr. Darshan Shah: and quickly that you can put into place [00:50:00] non-pharmaceutical interventions or maybe a pharmaceutical intervention that's [00:50:05] temporary until you reverse it. [00:50:06] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:50:07] Dr. Darshan Shah: And then we can go to a model where you [00:50:10] need maybe zero primary care offices and just specialists [00:50:15] that are only there when people get into real trouble. [00:50:19] Dr. Taz: We got a lot of work [00:50:20] to do. [00:50:20] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yes. [00:50:21] Dr. Taz: That's a big number. Yeah. 1,000 per city. Well, this has been [00:50:25] such a joy- Thank you. Yeah ... to tap into your brain, learn from your experience, your [00:50:30] journey. I think we are so parallel in, in so much of what has transpired. [00:50:35] You know, I make all my guests ask, you know, answer this question- Mm so I'm gonna make you do this too. What makes you [00:50:40] whole? [00:50:41] Dr. Darshan Shah: What makes me whole? Great questions. I think that, [00:50:45] um, th- there's a few things that I do that have made me feel whole in the [00:50:50] last 10 years that I never did before, um, when I wasn't feeling whole. Mm. A [00:50:55] few of those things, number one, like having a morning routine- [00:50:57] Dr. Taz: Yes [00:50:58] Dr. Darshan Shah: where I get to focus on myself, [00:51:00] do some reading, do some spiritual work, do some exercise. Right [00:51:04] Dr. Taz: there with you. Yes. [00:51:05] Right? [00:51:05] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yes. Go for a walk. [00:51:06] Dr. Taz: The morning is precious. [00:51:07] Dr. Darshan Shah: Get outside. Yeah, it's so [00:51:10] precious, and most people completely squander their morning, which to me, when [00:51:15] I squander my morning, I feel like I've squandered my day. [00:51:17] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:51:17] Dr. Darshan Shah: You know? [00:51:17] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:51:18] Dr. Darshan Shah: Um, secondly, just [00:51:20] putting a big, you know, emphasis on community and friends and family. [00:51:25] Um, I think that's something that can be a blind spot for people when you're going through the grind. Yes. You know? [00:51:29] Dr. Taz: [00:51:30] Yes, very much. [00:51:30] Dr. Darshan Shah: Yeah. So I think, um... And then lastly, I would say also, like, this, we keep [00:51:35] saying these words self-care. Yeah. And discovering what your own self-care really means and being [00:51:40] intentional about adding those to your lifestyle. [00:51:42] Dr. Taz: I love it. I've- all good advice, things I'm trying to [00:51:45] even do myself. Now, for anyone watching and listening today, where can they find you, your [00:51:50] clinics, your work? What's a good place to connect? [00:51:52] Dr. Darshan Shah: Next-health.com is our clinics. [00:51:55] Um, and, um, my social media is @darshanshahmd [00:52:00] or drshahlongevity. And then, um, I [00:52:05] have a podcast as well- Yes ... which you are on. Yes. Yes. Yeah So thank you for being on my podcast. Of course. It's called [00:52:10] Extend. [00:52:10] Dr. Taz: Yep. Well, thanks again for your time today. I've enjoyed this conversation. For everybody else [00:52:15] watching and listening, we post new episodes every week. Don't forget to subscribe, and I'll [00:52:20] see you guys next time. [00:52:20] Dr. Darshan Shah: Before you go, take a second to reflect [00:52:23] Dr. Taz: on what stood out for [00:52:25] you today. Then, if you can, leave a quick review wherever you're listening. It [00:52:30] really helps other people discover Whole Plus and start their own healing journey. [00:52:35] And don't forget to follow me on Instagram, @drtazmd. I love hearing how these [00:52:40] episodes are supporting you.