Latest / Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby / How To Handle Uncertainty Without Spiraling | Happiness | E533

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How To Handle Uncertainty Without Spiraling | Happiness | E533 · Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Quick hello before we dive in n a big thank
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• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Now let's get into it.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: What I do know how to do really well is
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: a just I know how to adapt, I know how
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: to be agile.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: So today we're talking about what it might be the
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: most important skill that nobody ever talks about, much less
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: taught you about, which is how to keep it together
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: when everything around you is changing.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: So whenever there was a project that no one had
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: done before, I would say I can do it, I'd
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: spend all night trying to teach myself how to do that.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: My guest today is Liz Tran. She's a leadership coach
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: who has worked with founders executive teams at fast growing companies,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: and she's the author of the new book AQ, a
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: New kind of Intelligence for a world that's always changing,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: and she's here to talk to us today about how
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: to apply these big ideas in all different dimensions of life, work, relationships, family,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: internal experience change.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: It was this ability to change, to handle disappointment, to
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: handle uncertainty, and that's what I call AQ, the agility Quotient.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Liz, I'm so excited to talk to you.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: I am to thanks for having me Lia.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: So first of all, I always love to dig into
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: a good origin story, and I'm so curious to know
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: this work on a cute agility quotient. Did this come
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: from a personal experience it.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Did you know, there's two stories, so this one's the
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: personal and one's the professional. I grew up in Virginia,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: suburban Virginia outside of Washington, went to school there.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, where did you go? Great? Okay?
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I went to UVA and I grew up really close
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: to George Mason. And in the particular place where I
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: grew up, I grew up in Section eight housing. My
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: mom was an immigrant, and we were just extremely, extremely poor,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: and it's not a poor area, and so I've always
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: felt like a little bit on the outside. And probably
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: around the age of eight or nine, I noticed that
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: people could see that I was different from other people
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: around me.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: You know, teachers would inquire, they'd be like, are you okay,
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: how's life at home?
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: And I started to think, Okay, if I focus on
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: my IQ and being really smart, maybe that will distract
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: from people realizing that there's an insufficiency financially in my background.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: So I really worked hard on studying doing well in school.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: I leaned a lot on what I thought would make
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: me be successful. And you know, fast forward to being
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: thirty years old, and I found myself working at a
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: venture capital firm in New York City with all these
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: people who had gone to like Harvard Law School, stand
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: for Business School, Wharton, and I didn't have that same pedigree.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: It was just through a lot of you know, I think,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: good luck and some chances that I ended up there
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: and I realized, you know, I actually can't compete on
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: IQ alone here. But what I do know how to
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: do really well is a just I know how to adapt.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: I know how to be agile. So whenever there was
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: a project that no one had done before, I would
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: say I can do it, and I'd spend all night
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: trying to teach myself how to do that. The firm
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: was growing and changing a lot. It was I think
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: now they just raised a fund of ten billion dollars,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: but back then we were so much smaller, so there
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: was all this stuff to build, and I was always
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: happy to say, oh, I can figure it out, even
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: though I hadn't done that before. And very quickly, I
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: would say, within a year and a half, I was
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: the only female executive, and I was the only executive
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: who wasn't, you know, a true investor. My job there
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: was to help the people in our portfolio, the founders
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: we had invested in, reach their greatest potential, and within
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: that construct, I realized that it wasn't just me that
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: was succeeding through something outside of IQ. Is this ability
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: to change, to handle disappointment, to handle uncertainty, And that's
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: what I call AQ, the agility quotient. And then professionally,
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: I started seeing this in the founders who I worked with.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: So they were all people who were assuming a lot
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: of chaos and uncertainty in their lives because they were
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: starting these early stage businesses that didn't have a customer
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: fit yet, that didn't have a market for them. And
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: so I thought, you know what, I think this is
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: the quality that makes a difference whether or not they're
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: going to succeed. This was back in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: and in twenty nineteen I made a transition. I became
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: an executive coach. I left my job in venture capital,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: and I started noticing that even with the people around me,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: some of the smartest, most polished, most put together people
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: were becoming completely undone by the pandemic because they did
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: not have that sense of control or certainty that they
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: were so used to being able to wield. You know,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: they were very much the masters of their own unit verses,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: and none of us were, you know, it was just
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: impossible because we didn't know why and where the future
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: was going. And in that moment, I thought, this is real.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: It's not just for me as someone who grew up
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: feeling very much like an outsider. It's not just for
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: founders who take on, you know, a high degree of risk.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: It's for all of us, especially because ever since twenty
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: twenty it hasn't stopped. We've been facing more change, uncertainty,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: and disappointment than ever before. And it's just a fact
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: of life now. We see it with the climate, we
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: see it geopolitically, we're even seeing it with technology, where
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: you know, so many people who have built these skills
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: over decades are starting to wonder what's AI going to
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: hold for me in the next two three years. So
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, I was pregnant with my first
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: child in my late thirties, So this is a big change,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: and I thought, you know, if there's a time to
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: work on this book, probably should be now, when my
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: whole life is getting flipped upside down.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: Then I can really.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Write from the standpoint of you know, they say that
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: that writers often write the book that they need themselves.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: And I really felt that in the moment and AQ
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: as a result of you know, eight year old me,
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: but then also thirty year old me, and then you know,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: five years ago pandemic me and seeing the needs of
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: my clients where you know, I really couldn't help them
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: solve their issues by saying learn more, go get the
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: knowledge you need and had to be no, you, Actually,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: there's a fundamental shift that needs to happen with your
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: perspective and your fundamental orientation towards life that is AQ.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: To build that AQ in order.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: To not only succeed, but to feel a sense of
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: happiness and personal satisfaction.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Oh what a great story. And I let what I'm
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: really sitting with right now is the way that you're
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: highlighting one of these invisible strengths that is so important.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: But I think that this is one that can sometimes
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: either be just not seen at all, or sometimes even
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: and devalued a little bit by certain aspects of the
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: culture around your ability to be adaptable and agile and
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: resilient in ways that not everybody can. And we're here,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: obviously to talk about how to develop this ability, but
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: you're just bringing up such a good point too. I
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: think about the different types of diversity that can come
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: in even through early childhood experiences or social class, and
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: what you're describing is someone who came into this world
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: in one sort of strata of society and then found
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: yourself operating in these groups of people who had a
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: ton of privilege, and that there was that moment there
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: when you could have questioned yourself, you know, I'm not
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: smart enough, I'm not good enough these you've all known
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: so much more than I do, but you are able
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: to recognize this really special ability within yourself that in
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: spite of things that you'd been through, but because of it,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: and really appreciating your own life experience and the value
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: that that brings in a new way.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Thank you for seeing that. And I one of the
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: things that I love about this framework is that I
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: think it's true for a lot of people, regardless of
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: whether or not you've had a lot of privilege. The
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: name of the game of being human is hardship and challenges.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: It's what makes us. And I think sometimes we can
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: think that those are detracting or obstacles and getting what
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: we want, but AQ reminds us that no, those are
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: the moments that grow us, that make us. The hard
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: times are the good times because they are indeed growing
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: your AQ. And you know, you see sometimes that I
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: have a very good friend and she really struggled with
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: the death of her father and she said, the reason
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: why I struggled is because it was the first time
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: anything hard had ever happened to me. And she was,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: you know, her late thirties when that happened, maybe even
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: in hundred forties. And what she said is that obviously
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: she doesn't wish that he had passed away. They were very,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: very close, but there was this rigidity within her that
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: expected everything to follow a certain path that collapsed and suddenly,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: you know, when you come off the path, it can
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: be scary, but it also holds so much more potential.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: And that's what I think is really beautiful. And it
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: has been empowering to reshape my story and say, you know,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not deficient, I'm just smart in a different way.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what EQ gave us in the nineties.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: And if we kind of you know, I'm a little
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: bit of a history nerd and to track back. IQ
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: is a product of the eighteen hundreds. It was when
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: France was mandating that students go to school, and they're like, okay,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: we need to test to help us sort these kids
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: into the right classrooms. And then that expanded to become
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: this default understanding of intelligence, which I don't think was
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: ever the main purpose of it, but it just aligned
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: with the Industrial Revolution, when you know, the government and
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: civil service and schools needed a way to quickly and
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: scientifically say, okay, you belong in a certain group that
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: we can predict your performance. And then in the nineteen
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: nineties one hundred years after that, that paradigm broke down
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: when suddenly we had this idea that knowledge, work and
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: interpersonal skills were just as important. And so suddenly, I
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: think a lot of people felt seen. I'd saying maybe
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: I didn't do so well in school, but I have
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: this little interpersonal antenna that helps me see so much.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: And so EQ became, you know, taught in schools and
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: organizations because it was so valuable. And then now here
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: we are thirty five years later. And this is not
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: to devalue IQ or EQ, because I think the trifecta
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: goes together with AQ, but the two IQ and EQ.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: Alone are incomplete.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: You know, it's predicted that if you're a member of
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Generation Z gen Z, you're going to have eighteen jobs
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: in six different industries personalize at am bare middle. That's
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: a lot of jobs, and it's a lot of interesting
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: stopping right. That's basically every eight years or so, you're like, Okay,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I'm going to make a full scale pivot and then
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have three different jobs during that time.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: And that's just a fact of life. You look at
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Fortune five hundred companies and the average tenure used to
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: be eighty years. Now it's like eighteen, and so things
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: are just moving so much more quickly. And I think
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: this skill I hope other people can feel too. Yeah,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I actually have been practicing it. I have developed this.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: This is a real core trade of mine. And now
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: there's language that helps validate it.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, I have so many questions for you, and this
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: is so powerful. And the adaptability, the agility quotient. I
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: think of it too. Just I think from my framework
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: as a therapists psychological flexibility, and certainly when it comes
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: to a career and workplace, but like even in relationships,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I once did an interview with someone
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: who was so disappointed in me because they were like,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: what's really the secret to having a strong relationship with
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: someone else? And that's actually where I went, psychological flexibility
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: is what we need to cultivate in order to be
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: adaptable and responsive to what your partner is saying and
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: not clinging really like strong ways to your own perspective
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: in a way that you know doesn't create space from
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: your partner. And they were just like, oh, that's such Yeah,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: that was not what they wanted to hear. With psychological flexibility,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: it's not even a little bit sexy, but so many
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: directions we can go in. Okay, So I totally agree
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: with that.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: By the way, I completely agree when I think about
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: the best friendships, right, the best romantic relationships. You could
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: be the most sexy, charismatic person in the world, but
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: if you're just holding so tightly to your own POV
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: in the world, you can't be in a relationship with
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: someone else, any relationship. And I think that's really true. Like,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: so my husband and I we have, you know, been
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: working through different iterations of our relationship, especially as we
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: became parents and our couples. Therapists said to me, I
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: can be a little bit of a rigid person in
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: terms of I'm like.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: This is the right way to do it.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Right, a way.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: You know you can hold on to what's.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Quote unquote right in this hypothetical, philosophical, rigid perspective, or
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: you could just be flowing in the relationship.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: That you have.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, yeah, that is really true
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: and and AQ, you know, I wrote this book with
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: people in mind to use it at work and with
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: their careers. And then as I was going, I was like,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: you know what, this is so much about relationships, It's
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: about parenting. What an AQ generating experience? Right, there's no control,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: you can't really predict it. And yeah, I agree with you.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: And I love that idea of psychological flexibility. And I
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: think that the biggest gap that we're going to be experiencing.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: We hear all the time the world is so polarized,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: and I do think that one of those biggest deltas
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: is that psychological perspective. Are you someone who looks a
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: change an uncertainty and says I don't want that, I
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: do not like it.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: Why is this happening to me? Or are you someone
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: who looks at the.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Exact same set of factors and says, oh, this is
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: something that's happening for me. So I think that psychological
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: divide is something that's like crosses lots of different lines.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Whether it's politically, geographically, it doesn't actually really matter, but
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: you know, people really tend to veer off to one
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: side or they do.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: So there's so much to unpack here, and I wonder if,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: but before we we go on with you know, how
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: to develop this or some of the differences, can you
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: paint us a picture of what this agility quotient really
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: looks like in action. I mean, if you were to
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: describe a hypothetical human or what they were doing, if
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: they were expressing this, what does that look like? What
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: does it mean? Yeah?
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, there are four pillars of AQ. I call them
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: the ABC's and we'll just quickly run through them because
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I think there are the ingredients that if you see
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: a high AQ person, then these are some of the
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: ingredients that they'll have in their life.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: The first one is a for anchors.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: And this is kind of unusual because we think with
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: agility then things are always changing and moving and flexible.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: But actually the most high AQ people have a lot
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: of stability in their lives and that allows them actually
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: to take risks and to make changes. So your anchors
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: are your people, places, and your routines that give you
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: a sense of roundings, just the same way that a
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: boat can survive and rock your waters when it has
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: a heavier, more stable anchor. And so the first thing
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: I'll say is, like when you're checking in to see
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: if you're high AQ, are you creating the right environment
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: for yourself to feel safe and to regulate your nervous
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: system so that when that change and uncertainty hits you,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: you're okay, you can deal with it from a very
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: calm place. The next letter is B for bets, and
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: that's the compliment to anchors. Bets are actions that you
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: take without knowing the outcome. So it can be something
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: little like trying on a different coffee shop than you
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: normally would, something medium size like you know, changing your haircut,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: or you know, trying on a different style of pants
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: than you're used to wearing, to something major like moving
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: to a new city, or trying a new relationship, ending
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: a friendship, a shifting a dynamic that you have with
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: someone at work, whatever it might be. So bets can
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: take all sorts of sizes, but we should be betting
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: regularly all the time to build our AQ. And the
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: person who is a high AQ person, they'll move anyway,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: even before they're ready, and even if they're afraid.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: So I think that's a good hallmark.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Is you know, if you're waiting until you feel one
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: hundred percent confidence about something, it's probably a little too late.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: It doesn't all have a story.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then see us for classrooms. So it's this
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: idea of do you feel like there's always something to learn,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: especially the more experience you are in your domain. Can
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: you take on a beginner's mindset where you don't assume
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: that you know the.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: Right way forward?
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: To me, this has been so important because as a coach,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: people always ask me, oh, so you must just have
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: the best answers for everything. Hey, that's actually not my job.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not supposed to know everything, and I think a
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Q really comes in handy. I'm like, I'm learning just
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: as much as my clients are, but my job is
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: to help them arrive at the answer for themselves. And
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: sometimes I will offer business expertise, you know, hard one experience,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: but for the most part, I try to stay really
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: open to not assuming that I know everything. So classroom.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Is this idea that there's always more to learn. You
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: should be a learn it all and send them a
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: know it all. You're asking questions, you're listening, and honestly,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: the research shows that the most confident people who are
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: actually regarded as the most competent, ask a.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Lot of questions. They don't talk a lot.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Finally, the D is for discomfort, and it's this idea
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: that high AQ people become very comfortable with situations that
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: don't feel good, and I think a lot of us
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: has been trained to run away from those situations. But
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: the analogy that I'll use here is it's just in
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: the same way that if you're working really hard at
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: the gym, can feel good to feel that burn be exhausted,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: and not that we want to push ourselves to burn out,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: but there is this very sweet spot where you're pushing
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: yourself into enough of uncertainty and discomfort that you know
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: that you're growing. And then you start to see those
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: moments and instead of saying, wow, I'm having a really
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: hard time, this is awful, instead you say, wow, I'm
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: really growing my AQ right now. And then the net
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: output of these four ingredients together is that you're someone
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: who moves from a space of you know, you're not
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: avoiding the things that are happening to you. You know,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: you're not putting your head in the sand and watching
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: a lot of Netflix and drinking a lot of wine.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: You're also not fighting against it, saying why is the
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: whole world against me? And you move into what I
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: call the full stage of AQ, which is embracing it.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: You're able to see everything that happens to you in
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: a way as a benefit because you know it's a
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: fact of life, like these things are always happening to us.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: More and more. In New York. We just had two
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: blizzards and.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: You took out Colorado's snow and I'm still mad at
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: you for that. But the blizzards is one of those
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: things where it's like everything is going sideways, sometimes literally
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: and having to be that kind of adaptable.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: And I think it's like little in big ways, and
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: I feel like I have noticed in myself. I was
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: on a flight to Miami for work and like late
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: third trimester right now, and our flight was delayed by
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: four hours. We were just sitting on the tarmac and
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I started having some cramping and then I was thinking,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: huh am, I got about to have a baby on
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: this plane, and then all around me everyone's losing their minds.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: People are like on the phone calling I'm about to
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: miss four meetings today, like miss this conference, blah blah
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah. And then I just thought if I
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: had a baby on this plane, what would be the upside?
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: It was harder to.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Arrive at the answer, but just that kind of refocusing.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: And the thing all offer is that AQ is our birthright.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: We can all access it, we can all be high
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: AQ people, and it's because we were meant to be. Like,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: think about our ancestors. They were just roaming around, hunting
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: and gathering. They had no idea where they were going
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: to sleep, they had no idea what they were going
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: to eat, and that is still embedded within us. We
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: just have gotten accustomed to the feeling that we can
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: control everything, and so it's just a resetting back to
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: our default settings of you know, we're actually really good
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: at this. And so I'd invite anyone who's listening to
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: think about, you know, a really hard, intense, chaotic situation
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: that you were recently in, and I imagine you could
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: probably see the best of yourself rising to the occasion.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, Liz, there's so much here and on the other
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: side of the break that regrettably we do need to take.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I really want to dig even deeper into this because
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: as you're talking, really hearing how cultivating a Q intentionally
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: can do so many things. First of all, create better
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: outcomes in your life through your taking bets, so to speak.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: But there's also this emotional groundedness that comes with it
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: improved relationships, but also like more emotional equilibrium, because if
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: you're not constantly being reactive or upset about things not
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: being the way that they should be right or raging
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: against some machine, you're going to feel a lot better.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: And that's that idea. I mean, that's actually the core
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: of so many things, including Buddhism mindfulness, like really being
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: able to accept what is in a healthy way. So
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: on the other side of the break, can we go
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: more deeply into those parts I.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: Love to.
• 24:15
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• 24:21
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• 24:25
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• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I get so many compliments on the audio production of
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: this podcast, and I found my audio editor on upwork.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: His name is Mark. He's amazing.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: In fact, I've found all kinds of amazing people on upwork.
• 26:01
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• 26:25
  Speaker 1: That is upwork dot com to connect with top talent
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: ready to help your business grow. Upwork dot com. So, Liz,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: this has been such a fascinating conversation so far about
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: the importance of agility and the dimensions of agility, the
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: four pillars of it, and I'd love to talk with
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: you more about how to cultivate these, But first, I
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: do have a question that's coming up for me. So,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: speaking as a psychologist now and someone who has become
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: especially in the last few years, I think very interested
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: in the science of personality, and I think more and
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: more deeply appreciative of how we are wired differently, like
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: different people have different core personalities and certainly a constellation
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: of life experiences that I think can create differences in
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: our perspective, our orientation towards the world. And this flexibility
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: versus rigidity can be one of those spectrums of personality.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, even if we look at Big five personality traits,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: one of the big ones is openness to experience, which
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: in some ways might be what we're talking about some
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: ways with the agility. And so I guess I would
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: be curious to know if this has come up for
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: you in your work, that there are some innate personality
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: types that have an easier time with this versus others
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: for whom it's not quite as instinctive. Even using myself
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: as an example, like this is actually interesting, maybe an
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: interesting dimension. Like I think my core personality type, I'm
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: ultra flexible, like maybe problematically flexible, and I've gone through
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: phases of my life where i have felt bad for that,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: like it you know, I can turn on a dime,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: but that's not always a good thing, and I've actually
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: had to cultivate more of maybe that first what did
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: you say? The a for anchor in my life, like
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: that has been an area of growth for me. But
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: maybe other people are coming at this from a different direction.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: And so can you just yeah, ask if you were
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: were you like that when you were a kid?
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: You were you very open, you know, and I grew.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Up like traveling a lot. I actually I grew up
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: on a sailboat, and I think that probably has well. Now,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: I mean the early life experiences, you don't really know
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: what's going to happen, and you wake up and you're
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: a different place every day and it's fine. But like,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: I've never felt a strong attachment to things being a
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: certain way. And my kind of way of being is
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not a planner, like just go see what happens.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: And I think it's probably from some of that. But
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: then I think fundamental personality might have something to.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Do with that as well.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, I love personality as well. So a lot
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: of my coaching experience is rooted in personality assessments. So
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: I'm trained in the Hogan, the enneagram, MBTI, and I
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: for this book, I really want to understand that. And
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: so the research from this book is my close coaching
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: relationships with hundreds of founders and leaders and then also
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: developing our own little personality assessment for AQ. So every
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: person is going to most strongly identify with one of
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: the four core Q archetypes, archetypes and the archetypes. So
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: you might feel like I'm getting a sense for what
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: you might be.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: But I'll make to lend. You can also take a
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: quick quiz.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: So then our friends that are here with us today
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: can also be thinking about what their archetypes are.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, yes, exactly. So you can go to aqquiz dot com.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: It's eleven questions. But I'll just explain the archetypes, and
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: as I go, I feel like most people feel like, oh,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: that's me, or you know, that's my partner, that's my dad.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: And the first one is the kind of quintessential good
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: and emergency chaos handling type, which is the firefighter. And
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: it's called the firefighter because they know how to jump
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: in when there's a spontaneous, reactive moment that needs to
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: get solved. And I say reactive because I different differentiate
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: between reactive change, which is the change that happens to us,
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: versus proactive. So proactive is like I want to learn
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: how to play the mandolin, I want to sign up
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: or a marathon, I want to change my job, I
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: want to find my life partner this year, and reactive
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: is like, WHOA, there's a tornado, my flight got canceled,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: this person on my team quit, I got broken up
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: with all that stuff that happens to us. The firefighter
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: is so great in those situations. They're the person that
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: you always call when there's an emergency. Usually their job
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: involves some degree of responsiveness, and they thrive on that chaos.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: And the downside is that they're so good with change
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: in an emergency situations that they don't usually plan very
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: much because I sort of think plan's going.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: To change anyway anyway, I don't really want to waste
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: my time.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: So there's a level of intentionality that they could be
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: missing because they're not putting enough time into sort of
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: like reflection and proactive growth. And then the opposite of
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: that type is called the novelist, and the novelist is
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: someone who imagine they're sitting at their desk and they're
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: not really like in the real world, but they're imagining
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: this whole plot that can happen. So they're like, in
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: five years, I want to have my dog, kid, two cars,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: I want to have a.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: Call, a aut it, whatever it might be.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: And then, of course when things don't go their way,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: which life never does, they get so undone by that
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: it's really really hard for them. I'm a novelist. So
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: if you look at my day.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I'm no the way you describe yourself that surprises me,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: because okay, sorry, we'll go, and I don't want to
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: derail this, but I'm genuinely surprised by the way you
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: talk about your orientation to the world. It seems like
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: you would be a flowyer person.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I'm really working on it. I've intentionally been working on it,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: but I do get really so if I have a
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: block to let's say, work on my book and i'm writing,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: if I get a call on my phone from like
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: my kid's caretaker who's like, oh my god, can you
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: help me with blah blah blah, I feel so overwhelmed.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: I can't even tell you. I like really panic. I'm like, oh,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: but I was supposed this was supposed to happen. And
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: that was my biggest learning because I was almost forty
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: when I had my first kid, and I it was
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: so overwhelming for me to realize that kids don't follow
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: a schedule all the time, even if you plan it out.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: I was like, well, she's supposed to eat every two hours.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I planned my whole day around like her eating schedule.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: But then you know, she's a baby, like, so I
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: think I've grown a lot from that experience. But I
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: mean even now, if you know, even this morning, I
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: you know, she normally wakes up at eight, and I
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: had my whole morning plan with her. I had to
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: be aut of the house at eight forty five and
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: she wasn't awake yet, which is very unusual, and I
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: was upset.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: I was like, wake up, baby, So you know, like that.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: And my husband is a firefighter, so he is much
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: more adaptable, much more agile than I am.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: And the novelist is great because they will help other
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: people plan.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: They're great at like synthesis, narrative, all the stuff that
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: involves like thinking the future.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: Research.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: They love researching, and then where they need to work
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: on is that sort of like real time flexibility. Then
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: the next archetype is the one that we kind of
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: think of as like the quintessential high AQ person. I
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: kind of think this is what you might be, but
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: it's an I'll let you decide, because I just know
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: that I'm listening to your podcast. But the astronaut is
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: like think about an astronhik.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Face cowboy exactly.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Like they're like on the edges of like innovation and
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: they have a vision and a future and they sort
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: of live life to the beat of their own drum
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: because they see the vision so clearly and they're happy,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: you know, they're they're really easy going and change. In fact,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: they don't even register a lot of things as change
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: that other people do. Like people are like often say
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: to them, how did you do that? How did you
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: take that big risk? And they're like, what, it didn't
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: even feel risky to them necessarily. And the downside is
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: that sometimes they are so fast that people around them
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: can be confused, Like they can be like, oh, can
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: you slow down, I.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Do that, I didn't accuse people, or yeah, yeah.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: But the learning is like when astronauts can learn to
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: step by step, help people see the same vision as them,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: go more slowly and bring people along. They are so
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: inspiring And I think that's why the podcast really works
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: for you, because you get this sort of long form
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: experience where the episodes are like an hour, which is
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: a really medium amount of time to talk about something
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: and help people come along with you on this vision.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: I feel like it really wouldn't work if you were
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: trying to do it in like two minutes, right, because
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: you're like helping them see and understand like a different
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: vision that probably use sort of glimpse almost immediately. So
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: I think that's why the podcast communication style is really
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: nice for astronauts. And the last one is the neuroscigen
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: or the neurosurgeon, which is the opposite Love Love the neurosurgeon.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: They are perceived typically as the lower lowest AQ, but
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: it's not actually true. They're just really slow, they're really intentional.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: It can take them a long time to make up
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: their mind because they're so motivated by excellence. Their level
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: of pfism is off the charts. So something that they're
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: criticizing themselves for and saying this isn't good enough, anyone
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: else would look at it and say, that's the highest quality.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: Thing I've ever seen.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: So think about neurosurgeon is in school for fifteen years
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: before they even start operating, So neurosurgeons are diligent, detailed, perfectionistic.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: I have a friend who is a neurosurgeon who she
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: decided to buy an apartment, and she looked for an
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: apartment for ten years.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: She had the money to buy it, but.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: She looked consistently for ten years, and she's the same
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: way to her relationships. She cannot decide whether or not
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: she a person is a long term fit for her
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: until she's been with them.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: For five years. So she's had a lot of five
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: year long relationships.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: She's now with her life partner, but she's had numerous
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: very very long term relationships where even at year three
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: or year four, if you asked her, she'd be like,
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know yet, I don't have enough information. I'm
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: still exploring these questions. And the type of work that
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: she does is quite transformational. She works like a large
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: organza and it requires a lot of you know, very
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: intentional like Okay, talk to this person, have this meeting,
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: and it scoped over. You know, a project might last
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: two years, which would drive a lot of the other
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: archetypes crazy, like tell firefighter they need to work on
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: the same thing for two years and they would say no,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: thank you, like I'm here to see the impact today.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: And the thing about the neurosurgeon is what makes them
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: really high AQ is again, once they decide that they
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: want something, nothing will stop them until they get it.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Another friend who's a neurosurgeon, he waited until he was
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: in his forties and to get serious about relationships, and
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: once he met the person that he knew he wanted
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: to be with, it was someone that he met through work.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: She said no a million times, and he just kept going.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: He was like, no, this is my person.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: I've decided.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: And he had been kind of wishy washy before then,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: but once he knew then nothing would stop them. And
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: now they have three beautiful children together. So the archetypes
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: all can be extremely high AQ. And the biggest key
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: to this is you have to know what you have,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: what your strengths are, what your your blind spots are,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: what your weaknesses are. And once you know that, you're
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: unstoppable because you can take that hand that you've been
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: dealt and you can play it beautifully. No matter if
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: you're a neurosurgeon or novelist, everyone could reach that highest
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: level of full AQ.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: That's so inspiring it and it's also wonderful to hear
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: you describe all of this and that there's always a
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: path to more flexibility even if you have an innate
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: style that might be in alignment with one of these archetypes,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: that we can cultivate flexibility in a healthy way. That
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: also makes sense for us, you know, like, even as
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: you were describing the neurosurgeon type. I mean that's somebody
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: with a lot of grit who gets locked into a
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: specific direction over a long period of time. But even
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: then there are ways to be more flexible within that
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: to respond to the changes that would inevitably come along.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: If you're on a two year project, right, like, things
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: always change. Yeah, okay, yeah with the neurosurgeon too.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: I always say to neurosurgeons, know that it's about self
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: awareness and know that you are going to push yourself
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: to a higher degree of perfectionism, and that you feel
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: more discomfort with uncertainty than the other types. So aim
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: for that sort of exposure therapy where you're slowly going
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: towards the north star of becoming one with discomfort all
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: the time. So maybe just start off where you're ten
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: twenty percent rushing yourself, right, Like, you have a project
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: that you want to do, you want to spend a
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: month on it, push yourself to get it done in
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: three weeks, then push yourself to get it done in
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: two weeks, right, And so it's just this constant sort
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: of edging towards you know, a change from the way
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: that you are. You're never going to be as free
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: flowing as an astronaut, but there is a range in
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: which you can really shift dramatically your personality so inspiring.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: So hey, we need to take another super fast break.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: But on the other side of this one, I would
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: love it if we could dig into some of your
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: recommendations about like what you just started describing, like concrete
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: things every architect can do to start building some of
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: those four pillars.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: Would that be okay?
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love Okay, that's great, continue the conversation.
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: On the other side, you've.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Heard me talk on the show about the research showing
• 40:30
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• 40:34
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• 40:38
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• 40:41
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• 40:44
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• 40:48
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• 42:20
  Speaker 1: That was certainly my experience when I started growing self,
• 42:23
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  Speaker 1: an IT expert, a bookkeeper, and as a business owner,
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• 43:40
  Speaker 1: by the way, about the architects of the pillars. This
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: is really fascinating and I think is going to be
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: so helpful for our listeners just to kind of create
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: some direction for themselves as a result of the conversation.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Lisa do you do you know which type or
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: do you have a sense for what do you know?
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: That's so interesting? Well, when you were talking about the firefighter,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: first of all, was like, Yep, that's me definitely. I
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: mean that very reactive, very responsive. But then when you
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: started talking about the astronaut, I really resonated with that
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: as well, because one thing I do is kind of
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: go into the imagination room a lot of times and
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: see what's possible but in a flexible way, and then
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: I try to lead people into that vision. But sometimes
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: and I've gotten feedback that I do move too fast
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: and needing to slow down and explain. So when you
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: said that, I really resonated with that as well. So
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And sometimes if anyone who's listening to feels like
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: they might be two archetypes, sometimes we show up differently
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: and work versus at home or you know, with our
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: family of origins, so there's different contextual dimensions of it.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: And then also I have found too that especially if
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: you're high EQ person right like you're very interpersonally sensitive
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: to what other people want, you can adjust your archetype
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: based on what you feel like the situation needs from
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: you and at the end of the day.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: The dream.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: The dream is that we all learn to flex a
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: little bit into each one of the other archetypes, and
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: even if we can't quite get there, then we still
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: have the self awareness to know, Okay, I can call
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: a friend like I have a friend who's a nurse surgeon,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: or I have a friend who's an astronaut. One of
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: my best friends is an astronaut, and she is the
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: person who I call when I'm feeling a little blue
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: or I've lost a little bit of my vision and yeah,
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: I'm having a crisis of confidence. And she can really
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: quickly remember and connect to what my why is for life.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: So good.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: She'll say, Liz, you're doing this. Remember this is why
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: you're here. And it's so powerful and inspiring because that's
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: sort of the way she moves through the world. She
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: doesn't have like a high detail orientation. She's more like
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: big picture. I know what I want, and I know
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: what you want. I can see where you're going, and
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: sometimes she can even see where other people are going
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: before they can where She's like, what if you did X,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Y and Z, And they're like, oh, okay, So I
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: think that's part of it is you know, we need
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: our AQ advisors. We need the people in our life
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: who support us and can help us see differently. So
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: you know, when I have a really important decision to make,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: I'll call a neurosurgeon friend and I'll say, walk me
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: through all the points I'm missing here?
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: What questions do I need to be asking?
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: When I have an emergency situation, I call my husband
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: or another friend who's a firefighter, and I know that,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: you know, my friends call on me to help them
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: with their planning, their intentionality. I think that's why I'm
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: a coach. That's the work that I do on a
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: day to day with my clients. And so for all
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: the archetypes, what I would recommend is the first thing
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: that you do is just familiarize yourself with your strengths,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: because I do think we tend to undervalue our.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Own It's true. Can you say a little bit more
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: about that, the strengths that we undervalue and what is
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: the impact of that?
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think the reason why we undervalue them is
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: because they tend to come a little easily for us,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: So we sort of assume that they come easily for
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: other people as well, and we don't necessarily think that,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: you know, we're sort of accustomed to, like if we
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: have to work really hard at something. And there's a
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: study that I love which is that the highest ranked
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: chess players actually think that they're much worse at chess
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: than they actually are in reality, because they know the
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: full scope of what's possible, they know the game, whereas
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: if you're a novice chess player, you actually think you're
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: better than no interest because you haven't.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: Really seen the great possibilities.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: So I think, you know, like even for let's take.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: You know, the neurosurgeon, for instance, they might think that
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: their bar for perfection there's nothing unreasonable about it, and
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: when they're criticizing themselves that is deserved, right, Whereas other
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: people might see that and say, wow, this is a
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: little intense, right, like you're being really hard on yourself,
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: or this work is excellent, there's no need to critique it.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: And then with the astronaut too, I think sometimes they think, okay, well,
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: like my vision is coming so easily for me, why
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: don't other people also see the same thing, And they
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: forget that they just sort of like arrive faster and
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: that's a really beautiful thing, and that they do have
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: the skill of helping people arrive there too. They're great communicators,
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: and so the first thing is knowing that's a tool
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: that you can deploy in these situations of change, uncertainty,
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: and disappointment. So, for instance, if I was facing some disappointment,
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: I might say, I'm a novelist, Okay, what can I do?
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Why don't I retell the story of what happened here
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: and like reframe it into you know, not just negativity,
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: but also like what went right? And then why don't
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: I plan out a few potential pathways for how things
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: can change? Because the definition of stupidity is doing the
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: So clearly needs to shift is it me? Is it external?
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: Is it both?
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: And then I can easily like put that plan back together.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: And a firefighter might respond to that disappointment and say, Okay,
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: where do I need to stop the bleeding? What conversations
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: do I need to have right now? Is there some
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: conflict that I need to just smooth over? Can I
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: bring calm to the people who are in the situation? One,
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: know your strengths, know your attributes. When you take the quiz,
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: then you can find out all about what your strengths
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: are as well, and so just really sit with them
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: and try to think about situations when you've deployed them before,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: so that you can see that pattern of how you've
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: really used them.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: For yourself and for others to help the situation.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: And then the second thing I'll say after that is
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: to think about the last moment you had that you
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: feel like maybe you didn't handle as well as you
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: could have, and see if you can spot that blind
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: spot and your archetype there and understand what that historical
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: pattern for yourself is as well. For me, I know
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: that when I love that you said that it seems
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: like A handle things so calmly. Now I think I do,
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: And I think part of what shifted that is that
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: I noticed that my habitual patterning as a novelist was
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: whenever something caught me off guard, I would immediately go
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: into victim mode. I'd be like, why is this happening
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: to me? And I try to understand, like why did
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: this happen? How did this happen? How can I prevent
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: this from happening? But that was not helpful. It's just happening,
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: like if your flight is canceled, it doesn't matter if
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: it's because the crew didn't show up or because there's
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: a problem with the aircraft. The only thing matters is
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: that you're not getting on that flight. And I like
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: novelists have this like deep desire to like get to
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: like the information like why, yes, why, Like even with
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: people sometimes, like even with my coaching clients, like I'd.
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: Be like, but why are you doing this?
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: And eventually I was like, I don't have the skill
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: set to like actually get into that why with you.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: I'm just here to help you stop doing this, right,
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: like get to get to the appoint that you want
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: here right like you know, I actually am not.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: I just don't have the capability to go into like
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: deep trauma work with you or like the why is
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: probably somewhere deeply buried, but like for now, we just
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: need to help the situation. And so I think knowing
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: like what's helping you, what's not helping you? And that
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: for me that was a big one is like less victimization,
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: less asking questions, and more taking action.
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: And so for some people might be slowing down that action.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: I actually have a lot of clients who their greatest
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: challenge to being high AQ is that they actually should
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: probably slow down. You know, they want to just move
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: and change everything and be reactive, but sometimes the highest
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: AQ thing to do is actually just to slow down.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: And so what I will say here is that as
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: you grow your AQ, it's really just about trying things
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: differently than your status quill. We all have default programming
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: and doesn't have to be a massive one to eighty change.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: But even if you're just turning thirty degrees in a
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: different direction, that is the best way to grow your AIQ.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: Take a bat, do.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: Something different than you normally would, switch up your playbook,
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: and eventually your toolbox of the tools that you can
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: reach for in these moments becomes much broader than it
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: is right now.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: Definitely, And that's such great advice. And I could even
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: hear like, you know, maybe for somebody like me who
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: is on that more flexible side of the spectrum, going
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: back to that, that anchoring space might be the different
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: thing to try. Yes, And I could even talk a
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: little bit more about that, because as you are describing
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: the four pillars that are part of how this works
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: for all of the different archetypes, it seems to me
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: like that is so important because I think in many ways.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: The ability to take chances, to take risks requires this
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: very deep sense of basic security in the world and
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: confidence in yourself that even if you don't know exactly
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: what's going to happen next, you are certain of your
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: ability to deal with whatever it is. Or like in
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: your own story that you shared when we first started talking,
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: you know this part of you that was like, I'm
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: going to learn this, and you stayed up all night
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: and read the man you all and came in the
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: next day. We're like, all right, here's what to do.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: But that comes from this confidence in your own ability
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: to do that, and that's this fundamental security. And I
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: think that many times what I see when people get
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: paralyzed you're like, no, I need to know, is because
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: it's like they need that certainty in order to move forward,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: and without that, they feel overwhelmed, they feel very anxious.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, I think part of that
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: is having these basic building blocks of stability and predictability
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: in your life that serves as a foundation to take
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: other risks, because if you don't have that, when you
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: do start taking risks, it just turns into chaos. You
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: just make a mess, right, And so there needs to
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: be a lot of balance in that first dimension.
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: And as an example, I'll give a person who I
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: read about in the book is someone who who was
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: diagnosed with terminal cancer and given essentially eighteen months to live,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: and in that time, he said he was with a
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: long term partner and he proposed to her and he said,
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: let's get married. And they actually had been fostering a
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: kid when he was diagnosed, and he said, let's adopt her,
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Like why not? And I think a lot of people
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: in that situation were given eighteen months to live, they'd
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: probably err on the side of having fewer responsibilities, like
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: long term commitments than more. But he really doubled down
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: on those anchors. He was like, I want a family,
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: even if I'm not going to be here forever. And
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: that allowed him to try out these experimental treatments, immediately
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: signed up for this this drug that hadn't that was
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: still in the research stages, and you know, he tried
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: out all these treatments that weren't proven and actually, like
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: he's been living with this now for twenty five years,
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: he did it die.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's watchable.
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: His daughter grow up.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Wow, you know, he's had this relationship, and the way
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: that he sees it is he's like, you know a
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: lot of people they get this diagnosis. They sell everything
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: they have, they move to a beach somewhere, and then
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: they just live out the rest of your life. And
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: he was like, these anchors, they gave me something to
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: live for. I think that's a really beautiful thing. Is that, Like, yeah,
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: we do need that. And I think what you're alluding
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: to is is really insightful, which is that I think
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: we look for that certainty in the wrong places. We
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: try to find it through more information, by looking at
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: the news. I call it future panic, where it's like
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: you feel like if you read enough articles or you
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: go on redd it enough, you hear enough and you
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: like ask ai like Netver's but the probability is enough
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: and it like gives me the answer that you want.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: But like, no, forget all that that is an illusion.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Get it from the people, the places, and the routines
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: that you can feel, smell and touch. Those are the
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: things that matter. Everything else is it's fake. You're just
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: like trying to predict something. You're trying to give yourself
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: this false sense of control, and you can't control what's
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: going to happen to you, but you can control that.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: Soft landing that you have.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: And so that's the way I think about it, is
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: like when you're a high AQ person, you are not
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: the best at predicting the future, but you are becoming
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: this sort of general athlete that can handle anything that
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: comes your way. And the analogy that I think is
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: really beautiful is that you know, a ship doesn't sink
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: because of the water around it, right, like anything could
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: be in the water, it's fine. It sinks because it
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: takes on that water. And so when you have these anchors,
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: it's your protective mechanism against that water flowing in because
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: you know you have your people, you have your home,
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: you have your yoga studio, you have your place of
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: worship whatever it might be, or you have your yoga practice,
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: you have your tea in the afternoon, you have your
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: commute to work where you listen to the radio and
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: your favorite albums, and those things seem so small, but
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: they are so so profound. And I actually think with anchors,
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: the more simple they are, the more important they are
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: because they become this like fabric of your life that
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: you can lean on. And when I was it took
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: me a really long time to get pregnant, and there
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: was so much uncertainty. I did a lot of rounds
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: at IVF and no one could figure out why it
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: wasn't working. And I just remember during this time, I
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: would go for the same walk every afternoon with my dog.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: I would sit on the same bench, and I would
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: drink the same cup of tea. And it was so small,
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: but that was like everything to me, because it was
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: like this little thing that I had control of over
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: the day that was productive. It made me feel good,
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: helped me like connect to my pet, my neighborhood, my community.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: Like I would wave to the same people, the people
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: weren't in the ice cream shop, the guy who lived downstairs,
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: and be.
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: Like, how are you?
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: And I think we sometimes don't give these anchors enough credit,
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: and so when we're in this time of turmoil, we
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: forget about them, We let them go, they dissolve. We
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: don't call our best friend, we don't reach out to
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: the people that we love. We're too busy to get dinner,
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: we're too overwhelmed and stress to like do our yoga
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: practice or meditate that night. And so what I do
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: say is that if it seems small and it seems
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: like you can skip it, that's even more reason to
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: make it a regular part of your life.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: That's such good advice. And you know, for any of
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: our friends here with us, if you're going through a
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: phase of life that feels overwhelmingly chaotic, or if there
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: have been so many big, unwanted things that have happened
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: that it feels genuinely overwhelming, which happens sometimes. I mean
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: people's houses burn down, like their career path is getting
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: obliterated by new technologies. I mean, like there's a lot
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: going on, right, And so this idea of you know,
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: step one, find something in your life that you can
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: just be like, this is what I do. There was
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: I don't even know where it came from. Probably you know,
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: I've had the great fortune of sitting at the feet
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: of some very wise people over the course of my
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: professional development, and some wonderful clinical supervisors, and I think
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: it was probably one of them that said, just make
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: your bed in the morning, Like, well, make your bed,
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: drink a glass of water. There you go to have
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: the thing. I love that, Yeah, and start looking for things.
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: You have some anchors that you think about, like people
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: or routines that.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: You love man to see. That's the thing. And I
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: and this even shocks people when I tell them so,
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Like we have two kids, I've never had routines. You know,
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: people talk about like step one of parenting, you have
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: to have routines, you have to have structure really well,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: because now the problem is that my husband is probably
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: even more oriented towards flexibility than I am, which so
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: we don't We don't really have any routines in our home.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: And everybody's fine, by the way. Our kids are flex
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: if nothing else. And it can be fun, it can
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: be weird. Every once in a while we end up
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: like a fireworks superstore and somewhere in Wyoming. I mean,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: like you know that, like what are we doing today?
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know?
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: And then there you go.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: But like I do think what has been I don't
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: know if I have super ultraspecific routines that are natural
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: to me. But like for me, when I'm doing better,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: it is centered around like physical exercise really helps me
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: a lot, and that when I don't do that, I
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: start to get like unmoored a little bit.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: And I think.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: Creating order in my environment is helpful for me because
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: especially having a comfort with chaos type orientation. If I'm
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: not intentionally creating order in my life, it can get crazy.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: I think now that I'm thinking about it, there are
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: actually some big things at the beginning of the week.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Now I take time to like plan, even if it
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: winds up being different. On Monday mornings, I'm thinking about
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: what I should be doing with my time. So those
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: are things that help me personally.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: But what a beautiful and also and just remember too,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: anchors are also people. And so even if you are
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: in a household where like all of you don't really
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: you know, routines are not your love language.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: You have each other like that is actually the most dependable.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: Place, Like just knowing that there's someone who's a constant
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: in your life. And then it can even just be
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: like your home, like a cozy place on the couch
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: that you like to sit right or like your kids
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: knowing that like you're going to be there at a
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: certain time every day, or you know, whatever it is,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: it's just sort of nicer, like a meal that you
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: like to have together sometimes, or like a way that
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: you hug them, or like the way that you like
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: wake them up in the morning and say, like pla.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: Like those things are.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: Such a good point, and you know, and I just
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: want to illustrate this that particularly we're I think, in
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: the zeitgeist these days, we're talking about security, right that
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: emotional security, emotional safety, stability, and there are so many
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: different ways that that can look. And so for example,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: just given my husband and I's orientations, but a lot
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: of time like traveling, like really like a fully nomadic
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: lifestyle for a while with children, and I would well,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: it was great, but I would have people react to
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: that and be like, well, aren't they going to be
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: insecure or anxious because everything is changing around them all
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: the time. And you know, I think that there are
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: relational pillars, like what you were talking about the stability
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: of a relationship, Like even if we're doing different things
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: at different times every day, there are these fundamental things
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: that you can always count on, like the way that
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: somebody responds to you, the way we talk to each other,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: the fact that we're there. You know, those things count.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: And so to maybe have almost a flexibility in what
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: stability can look like in your life, especially if you're
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: not wired that way.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: It was the same thing with my daughter, and at
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: first you're life we took her to long trips like
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: to Tokyo, to Paris, to Canada, and it was the
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: same way. People were like, huh, like is that good
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: for her? And I was like, I don't think she cares,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: because I'm like, I'm here, her dad's here, like sometimes
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: her grandma's here, and like she knows that, and her
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: favorite stuffy is here, and like those are the things
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: that she looks to.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: I don't think she cares that it's a different crib,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: Like she just doesn't.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: It's like her mom, And I'm very consistent with her,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: like as a you know what you said about the
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: way that you react give your kids, know that like you're.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: Never gonna like fly off the handle.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that was kind of the hardest part,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: maybe even why I became a novelist, was you know,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: we had a pretty like it wasn't like I was
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: moving houses a lot, but my mom was very unpredictable,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: so you never knew if she was gonna like be
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: home or not home, or yell.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: At you or be okay.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: And you know, there just wasn't any I think she
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: really struggled with her mental health, and that for me
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: is probably why I became a novelist because I was like,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: I need to like create order and predictability and control.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: And a big part of being a parent is learning that,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: like the consistency that I give my daughter isn't really
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: about her schedule, because she's an organic being that is
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: going to change all the time, especially in that first year.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: The schedule goes out the window every ten months.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: But like what is consistent is like I can give
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: her what I didn't have, which is that she knows
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: how Mom's going to react.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: And it's always like very definitely.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm stern, like I might be like, you really
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: can't do that, You're going to hurt yourself. But I'm
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: never going to explode in her in a way that
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: feels really really off putting, like the way my mom did.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: And so I think that relational stability is so powerful,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: and that's why in angers, I always say people are
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: the first ancher people places, and then your routines.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: I love that. Well, thank you for sharing this, and
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: you know, as we're talking and then we'll probably glad
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: to a stop here, but I do just want to
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: say I think one of the important messages for me
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: from this conversation the takeaway is the kind of land
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: as you were just sharing, that that part of how
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: we develop resilience is by being put into these stressful
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: situations and then needing to find these ways of how
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: do I manage this in a maybe extra chaotic environment.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: You became more resilient by creating your own internal structures
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: that restored order to the force, right, And that you know.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: I think it's such an important reframe because I think
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: it can be very easy for people to focus on
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: air quote negative things that they experience in their lives.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: And it is also true that sometimes people are put
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: into situations or have things happen to them that are
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: legitimately more than anyone can or should be expected to
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: cope with, and that rises to the level of a
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: capital T trauma. And that's a different thing, right. But
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: I think that there are many life experiences that can
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: be viewed as harmful or not non ideal, but there
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: are different ways of looking at them, and if they
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: create more flexibility, adaptability, resilience, confidence in yourself to solve
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: problems or trust in yourself to figure it out, right,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: that creates this type of psychological flexibility that we're talking about.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: And I would argue in terms of, you know, we
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: were just talking about parenting styles that if you are
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: creating this very predictable, ordered universe for a child that
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: is always the same way every single time, then when
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: that person goes out into the world as an adult
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: and encounters a novel situation for the first time, or
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: starts getting put into situations where they're not quite sure
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: what's going to happen next, they're going to experience that
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: as really overwhelming and anxiety provoking. Compared to you know,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: having a kid who is able to flexible in the world,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: it almost like inoculates against this fear of change, fear
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: of the unknown, that can be so inhibiting.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: I think the best thing we can do to prepare
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: our children for the world, especially because the world is
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: changing at an exponential rate. I don't even know if
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: our kids are going to need to go to college.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: Is college going to exist? I don't know.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: For your seven year old and for my too, I
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: don't know.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: It's totally up in the air, And I think the
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: best thing we can do to prepare them is exactly
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: as you said, to have them.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: Struggle and fail and fail, flee with us, with.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: Us safely so that we don't pick them up right away,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: but then we help them navigate. Because if the first
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: time that they're experiencing change, disappointment and uncertainty is when
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: they're already out of the nest, I'm worried about them
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: because they don't have us there. They're not in those
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: formative moments where they can shape and learn skills. And
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: that was something that was really important early on. Like
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: when my daughter was learning how to walk, I made
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: a very specific decision that every time she fell, I
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: would just clap, and then I would never say be careful.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: I would just say, like pay attention or trust yourself.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: And oftentimes I would make the calculation where like I
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: was like, she's probably gonna hurt herself, but she's not
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: going to die, and so I would just let her
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: do it, and then that's much better than always preventing
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: her from going to the edge of the bed.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: She felt all off the edge of the bed once
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: and she never did it again.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: And so I think that stuff is really important, especially
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: when they become more complex. It's easy with a toddler
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: to be like, don't touch this hot thing, but then
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: it's more complex when they're dealing with friendship dynamics, self
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: esteem and all that stuff you can give them guidance on.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: And I think that that is so true that the
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: same way we should do.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: That for ourselves.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: Let's put ourselves in environments and situations that feel intimidating,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: off putting, a little bit disappointing, so that when it
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: actually happens to us in a really meaningful way, it
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: doesn't feel so it doesn't feel like your world isn't
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: meeting because you're like, oh, I know how to do this.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: I feel this muscle.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: And it reminds me of that guy Alex Hunnell who's
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: like this crazy rock climber. He free climbs without any ropes,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: these crazy structures, and what he says is he's like, listen,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: I practice over and over again with ropes, so that
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: when it comes to the day, we're like, I'm free
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: climbing this huge mountain. I've already done it like one
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty times, and so you might be nervous
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: for me.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: But I'm not nervous.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: So the same thing for us and the same thing
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: for our kids, and we can practice this muscle of
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: AQ over and over again, then when we actually need it,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: and when we don't want this to happen to us,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: then we're not feeling like we're actually gonna die. You know,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: it's like not that fight or flight. It's a little
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: bit more like Okay, I got it, just like riding
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: a bike getting back on.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: Such good advice for us all to live by, Liz,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: this was just a starter pack. You have so much
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: to offer through your book and through your online resources.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: You talked about a quiz before we end. Can you
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about what you have going
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: on through social online? Maybe a little bit more about
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: your book and how people can find it, because I
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: know that this is a basic conversation about very big,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: deep topics that all of us have a lot of
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: work to do around. So where do our listeners go
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: next to continue this with you?
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the AQ book.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: You can do a lot more work with your archetype
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: and you can dig into where you know your career
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: can go when you raise your AQ. You know, we
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: talk also about home life and relationships and parenting in
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: the book as well. If you're looking for, you know,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: different type of guidance that's like more based in Buddhism
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: Eastern philosophy. My first book, The Karma Success, is about
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: how to redefine what success looks like and what meaning
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: looks like, less from an external perspective and more from
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: you know, your internal intuition. So that's my other book.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: And then online I'm at Liz Hyphentran dot com. The
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: aqquiz is there. You can also go to aqquiz dot
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: com on Instagram at Liz tran rites And I'm always
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: interested in hearing people's stories about challenge and AQ, so
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: always feel free to reach out.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: Amazing, Thank you so much. Okay, you guys. The book
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: AQ a new kind of intelligence for a world that's
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: always changing, and it was Liz Hyphentran dot com all
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: kinds of resources. Yeah, excellent. Well, Liz, this conversation has
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: been such a pleasure. I learned a lot just talking
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: with you today and have like new visibility into things
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: that I haven't thought of that much before. And I'm
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: sure that our friends who are here with us today
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: have as well. And I'm just I'm so grateful for
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: this time.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: This is great. Thank you, Lisa, thank you for having me.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: I loved our conversation.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: Thank you, we thank you so much for spending this
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: time with me today and If you have found this
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: episode helpful, do your good deed for the day, pass
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: it on, pay it forward, Share this episode with someone
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: you care about who might need to hear what you
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: just heard today. Close your eyes, think about who that is,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: and then boop hits end Now. As for you, if
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: you are feeling inspired by what we talked about today,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: if you're ready to go deeper, whether it's in your relationship,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: your own personal development, or maybe even your bigger sense
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: of purpose, I would love to help you. Come visit
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: me at growing self dot com. I have so many
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: free resources for you, but you can also to schedule
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: a free consultation with one of the amazing licensed therapists
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: on my team, who, like me, specialize in evidence based
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: coaching psychology. You can do that. You can also explore
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: the programs that we have designed for you to create
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: real and lasting change in your life in a structured,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: step by step way, and do not forget to go
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: into my blog and podcast, my content collections where you
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: can find exactly what you need to support your journey
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: of growth. And hey, let's also stay connected. If we're
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: not already connected, come track me down. I am on
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: Instagram periodically and would love to hear from you, or
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: if you have a question or comment about the show,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: just email me, get in touch hello at growyself dot com.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: All right, until next time, you take care and keep growing.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 4: Pre you pray