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Should We Strive To Be Understood? · Life In Flow Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Life in Flow podcast.
• 0:03
  The three of us,
• 0:05
  Yulia,
• 0:05
  Polina,
• 0:06
  and Irina,
• 0:07
  are exploring what Life in Flow and Flow in Life is.
• 0:12
  Join us as we experiment,
• 0:15
  test our diverse hypotheses,
• 0:17
  and have fun in the process.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Will we find an answer?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't just an intellectual discussion.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: We're co-creating a shared field beyond words.
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  We're attuning to what emerges moment by moment so that the
• 0:35
  conversation itself
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  SPEAKER_02: becomes a group flow experience.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we invite you to become an active participant in this experiment.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: There will be pauses and moments of silence.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: We leave them on purpose because this is where magic happens.
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  SPEAKER_00: Go beyond the intellectual information.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Listen with your whole body.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: and notice how your somatic experience shifts in the process.
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  Share with us what reveals itself in the space where mind,
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  body,
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  and energy flow together.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Greetings.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of the Life & Flow podcast.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be facilitating this episode.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm Yulia, and with me are my co-hosts Irina and Polina.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the topic of today's conversation is about being understood.
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  And the question,
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  the way I've formulated it is,
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  should we strive to be understood
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  And it does have certain assumptions built in,
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  built in,
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  or maybe some provocations built in.
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  SPEAKER_00: Right.
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  So assuming that we do really want to be understand and we're
• 2:11
  going to apply a lot
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  SPEAKER_00: of effort for it to happen.
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  My intention is actually to explore even understanding because
• 2:24
  we do refer
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  SPEAKER_00: to the process of maybe being seen.
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to put the words into our mouths and into this conversation.
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  SPEAKER_00: So kind of play and question even the word itself.
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  And any other provocations that come,
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  any weirdness that wants to come is very welcome.
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  the context behind this question that is relevant for me at the
• 3:04
  moment is it's
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  become harder to be understood for me and my history and my
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  style is to not share
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  SPEAKER_00: much about myself
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  SPEAKER_00: and to not go to a great effort to explain to be understood.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I'd rather kind of be hiding.
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  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time,
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  I thought that I had made some good progress in helping others
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  understand me with
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  SPEAKER_00: words,
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  SPEAKER_00: with words usually.
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  And I thought that I kind of more or less understood the
• 3:59
  process of being understood.
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  SPEAKER_00: And yet lately,
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
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  SPEAKER_00: well,
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  maybe I haven't really understood this process of being
• 4:09
  understood because,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: sometimes or actually it's...
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  There have been a few occurrences where people have known for a
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  long time and that
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  SPEAKER_00: I thought we do have a common baseline.
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  SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden,
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  I feel like we're on two different planets and on two different
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  planets to the
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  SPEAKER_00: point that I don't see how we could get to one another.
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  SPEAKER_00: And
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  SPEAKER_00: I,
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  SPEAKER_00: my hypothesis is that I've been changing,
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  SPEAKER_00: but also,
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_00: the world and life is like a river,
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  SPEAKER_00: all is flowing,
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  and probably the concept of understanding and being understood
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  has been changing.
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  SPEAKER_00: It feels like lately there is so much that's kind of like in flux.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I thought it would be really interesting to
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  SPEAKER_00: talk about understanding and being understood.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I also wanted to do our conversation with our eyes closed,
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  SPEAKER_00: with a mask or a scarf on,
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  SPEAKER_00: not the games.
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  SPEAKER_00: We're going to start with playing a couple games.
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  But later,
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  I also thought that it would be a good process to understand
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  understanding better.
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  um with eyes closed because visual understanding is a big part
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  of understanding
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  maybe that's my um hypothesis okay so my first um little game
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  that i wanted to play
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  SPEAKER_00: with you today is just playing with the word to understand
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  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to do a couple of rounds.
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  So just do a couple,
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  two,
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  three,
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  maybe four,
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  depending on how it flows rounds.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, when I hear understanding, I hear something.
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  SPEAKER_00: So it's more about the word itself.
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  And that is because I realize that a lot of the words that we
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  use and that we take
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  SPEAKER_00: for granted,
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  SPEAKER_00: and we'll discuss this also,
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  SPEAKER_00: like they're not,
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  SPEAKER_00: maybe they were made or they were used for specific purposes.
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  SPEAKER_00: And maybe it's now time to at least, I don't know,
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  get to know the word better um and see what it is and then
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  decide whether that's
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  still the right word but but that's just the context this is a
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  game so there is no
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  SPEAKER_00: um no goal i can start okay when i hear the word understand
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  its sense for me is about standing and about something static I
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  also fixed my
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  SPEAKER_01: attention on the part of standing but at the same time under so
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  SPEAKER_01: When I hear the word understand and I pay attention to the word itself,
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  SPEAKER_01: I begin to imagine that understanding is like to make a stand,
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  SPEAKER_01: a stand like a statement.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so understanding is like to stand under a statement.
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  yeah when we start to unpack this word the way the two of you
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  have just done i
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  actually i don't know if i've ever tuned into the under and the
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  stand in this word
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  SPEAKER_02: and when i do tune into it it it
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  makes sense because understanding for me is like being able to
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  stand under someone's reality.
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  So like kind of a holding capacity of standing under either my
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  own reality.
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  SPEAKER_02: So meaning like I'm holding it.
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  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of like a little bit,
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  SPEAKER_02: my hands are under the thing that I'm holding,
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  SPEAKER_02: whether it's for mine or for someone else's needs,
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  SPEAKER_02: wants,
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  SPEAKER_02: concepts,
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  SPEAKER_02: whatever.
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  SPEAKER_02: It's like this holding ability.
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  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
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  SPEAKER_00: When I hear the word understand,
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  SPEAKER_00: it makes me feel a little bit tired actually,
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  SPEAKER_00: because it sounds long and it sounds complicated and energy intense.
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  SPEAKER_01: When I hear the word understand,
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  SPEAKER_01: I start thinking about standing together.
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  And to stand together,
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  one needs to stand down from the pedestal of being.
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  who i am and this is like all my knowledge and everything what
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  comprises my
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  worldview so standing down from this to be able to stand
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  together with another i
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  SPEAKER_02: love that description um that kind of triggers
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  SPEAKER_02: or sparks this kind of felt sense of if I am to understand,
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  I have to step down from the pedestal of my ego or of what I
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  think I already know
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  SPEAKER_02: and understand in order to expand into new potential possibilities,
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  SPEAKER_02: which is what is required to understand something that you may or may not
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  have a grasp of from the aspect that is currently being
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  presented in the field.
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  SPEAKER_02: Like the attunement of what is the nuanced field need for you to touch.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let's do the third and final round.
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  SPEAKER_00: When I hear,
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  SPEAKER_00: I try to sense into the word understand,
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  SPEAKER_00: and also hearing both of you,
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  SPEAKER_00: I think that understand,
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  SPEAKER_00: shh,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's like shh,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's like get quiet now,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's time to listen.
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  SPEAKER_01: And when I hear the word understand, it sounds like a wave.
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  And this wave may have many connotations,
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  like I may let myself to let go with this wave.
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  And it also might represent like this fluctuation of
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  information and my capacity to
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  SPEAKER_01: get closer to it or move far away.
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  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes I will understand better.
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  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it will be out of reach for me.
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  SPEAKER_01: So it's coming and going.
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  that imagery is really nice the the fluctuation I guess kind of
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  also the flow that
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  is required to do this kind of dance with what you're being
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  asked to hear and
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  SPEAKER_02: listen to
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  and how you're asked to engage with it if there is more
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  softness and more spaciousness.
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  It also feels like an invitation to go into the sub state and
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  the receiving state
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  SPEAKER_02: instead of the attention out state,
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  SPEAKER_02: which could be
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  a lot more pleasant if you really just kind of expand your
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  consciousness and your
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  SPEAKER_02: focus and you just allow the information,
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  SPEAKER_02: the energetics,
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  SPEAKER_02: whatever it is that wants to be
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  SPEAKER_02: received for it just to land in your system as you're taking it in.
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  So you could have a felt sense of potentially what the other
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  person feels in their
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  system as they engage with whatever it is they're sharing or
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  the energetics of
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  SPEAKER_02: whatever you're receiving from the field.
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  so almost like a sensual receiving softer space that sounds so
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  soothing i i i could
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  feel at the beginning and even i think when i came to this
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  episode i came with a
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  SPEAKER_00: little bit
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  SPEAKER_00: of resistance, which I love my resistance.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, I'm just gonna stick to my point.
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  But even the way that you girls have now shared and sensed into
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  understanding
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  i am already sensing a shift in myself so thank you for that
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  thank you both as well
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  this was a co-creation so the second game that i wanted to play
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  is there is this
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  SPEAKER_00: chewing gum it's called love is do you know
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  yeah okay so anyway we've played um i think we came the same
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  kind of rule i i just
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  wanted to hear a couple of things what it is for you to be
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  understood to be
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  SPEAKER_00: understood is like but i wanted to introduce a rule and the rule is
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  SPEAKER_00: we're not going to be talking about the human world.
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  SPEAKER_00: So basically the world of being understood and understanding a human.
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  SPEAKER_00: So you can go to nature, to the forest, to the sky.
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  You can also go to anything man-made like the house,
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  a cup of tea,
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  your bed,
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  anything like that.
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  but not what it means to be with a human with this concept of
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  understanding and
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  SPEAKER_00: being understood.
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  SPEAKER_00: Makes sense?
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  SPEAKER_00: But it could be an animal?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it could be an animal.
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  SPEAKER_00: An animal, yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I can start.
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  To be understood is like to see all of a sudden so much wisdom
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  and shapes in a
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  SPEAKER_00: cloud that was just passing by.
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  To be understood or to feel understood is like when the
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  kamertone emits the sound
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  SPEAKER_01: and the other sounds enter into the resonance with the kamertone.
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  SPEAKER_01: and you are a part of this sonoric resonance.
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  To be understood is like cuddling with your dog and having a
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  full sense of nervous
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: system co-regulation and that sweet unencumbered trust.
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  and merging energetically and just being together fully being
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  really loved and
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  accepted and approved of while being totally different species
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  all at the same time
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  to be understood it's like by the ripples on the water or by
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  waves or by any
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  SPEAKER_00: movement and shape-shifting of the water's surface
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  SPEAKER_00: to sense its depth.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's it.
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  To be understood is like being a wind that is being welcomed by
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  the branches of the tree.
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  SPEAKER_01: And when the tree moves together with the wind,
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  Being received is like being welcomed by the ocean as it
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  envelops your body and
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  SPEAKER_02: holds you as if in its hands
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  SPEAKER_02: and gently sways you and wants you and loves you and fully receives you.
• 24:00
  thank you super beautiful so i now invite us to put on all
• 24:15
  masks i think it felt
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: already like i wanted to keep my eyes closed yeah um
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I might occasionally look up.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm having a hard time finding words.
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  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, I'm going to look up the time.
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  SPEAKER_00: But for now, it's just nice to have my mask on.
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  And I think the connection that I'm sensing to both of you
• 25:18
  feels different.
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  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to go to the first question.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the first question is, what does it mean to be understood to you?
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  SPEAKER_00: And again,
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I want this to be,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: I want us to maybe see how we can expand the context or the range,
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: what
• 25:54
  kind of like novelties or weirdness can we find in um being
• 26:03
  understood maybe what
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  provocations can be made like some somehow my intention is to
• 26:16
  dig something up
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: about understanding that's
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: surprising or maybe some dirty laundry or something.
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  SPEAKER_00: So anyone who feels like it is welcome to start.
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  SPEAKER_01: I must say that when we started the game,
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: my feeling of understanding was inclining more towards fitting in
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  SPEAKER_01: Like the images that came to my mind,
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: which in the end I didn't share,
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  SPEAKER_01: were one piece of the puzzle that fits in the whole picture,
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: finds its exact location,
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: its exact place,
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: and it feels like I belong here.
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  SPEAKER_01: This is my place, rightful place.
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  And another image that I had about the gears that are fitting
• 27:55
  together and moving
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  SPEAKER_01: around because of these pieces that fit also like a puzzle.
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  SPEAKER_01: But as we...
• 28:16
  moved along our game,
• 28:22
  my feeling of the concept moved more towards the resonance,
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  like really
• 28:47
  experiencing that i am in resonance with the vibrations of the
• 28:57
  of the situation of
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  SPEAKER_01: the world of the environment of the field whatever you like what are the
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: practicalities um the feeling understood might be applied to
• 29:17
  So I'm attuned and into the environment and the environment is
• 29:27
  attuned to me.
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  SPEAKER_00: So then to feel or to be understood,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's in the phrase itself and how it's grammatically structured.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's more the action comes from the outside, from someone or something.
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  SPEAKER_00: So if that's the case,
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  SPEAKER_00: or maybe in the resonance that you're describing,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's not the case,
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: does it mean that you're being tuned into?
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  SPEAKER_01: I think it's...
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: It goes in both directions.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I need to tune into the environment.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: The environment needs to be tuned in into me.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's both sides.
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  SPEAKER_01: So in certain
• 30:36
  sense it is the responsibility of both sides for this
• 30:42
  understanding to happen,
• 30:46
  to emerge.
• 30:53
  Okay,
• 30:53
  and what roles do words play if that is something that plays a
• 30:59
  role?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it depends on the situation.
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  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes the words are like the code.
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  SPEAKER_01: When it's the only means of attunement,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to have the same code for this resonance to happen.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise the gears, they don't move together.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: But we all know the phrase understanding without words.
• 31:59
  So sometimes it may seem that the words are coming from
• 32:04
  different coding systems,
• 32:07
  but the understanding might still emerge if there is this
• 32:12
  attunement at the deeper
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: level.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it may be energetical, simply, you know, like non-verbal, emotional.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: even just physical.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 32:51
  What that sparks for me when you mentioned the word code,
• 32:56
  that's really fitting.
• 32:59
  So words are code and the actual subtle meaning or the subtle
• 33:10
  energetics behind the
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: words is what is the key.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 33:18
  to really receive or tune in with the resonance of what someone
• 33:25
  is communicating or
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: trying to share.
• 33:28
  And so the attunement in the field would have to be
• 33:37
  multi-layered in order to
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: really feel like you're being understood for me.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, they're receiving the words I'm using, but they're also
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: opening their,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 33:50
  consciousness and awareness to receive the flavor of what that
• 33:55
  word means for me so
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: that,
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: so that they can get that attunement and,
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: or at least
• 34:13
  create the space to energetically feel me and what I mean or
• 34:21
  where I'm coming from.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: So...
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: And not because we are necessarily at the same frequency,
• 34:37
  because I feel like there's such a big range and we could have
• 34:40
  access to so many
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: different points on that range and that spectrum.
• 34:45
  But being able to modulate with this expansive capacity to
• 34:55
  locate the other person
• 35:00
  using the codes uh that we call words or the visual cues or
• 35:05
  whatever it is that we
• 35:07
  have access to to try to carry the message of like the flavor
• 35:13
  behind what you
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: actually mean or what you're experiencing but
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: The understanding part is that the ability for that to land,
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: like they've received the transmission.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: They don't need to agree with it.
• 35:34
  They're just allowing for at least some sort of felt sense of
• 35:39
  what is coming
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: through behind the words.
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  SPEAKER_02: That leads to
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: that sensation for me of,
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: there's,
• 35:52
  there's room here and you're willing to touch me in a way to
• 35:59
  touch me as I am,
• 36:00
  to be curious enough to tune in behind the words so that you
• 36:07
  could actually receive
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: me energetically.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: So we have, yeah, that, that kind of moment or moments of
• 36:21
  energetic touch which is welcome and wanted touch me as i am um
• 36:36
  i like that i also
• 36:37
  like the flavor so it's um you know to me it feels like an
• 36:44
  entanglement also almost
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: something like
• 36:50
  um like sharing a meal only the meal is you um your flavors and
• 37:00
  as you know the
• 37:03
  meal with whatever it consists of and with the flavors it kind
• 37:10
  of penetrates the
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: other person so that um you know they can
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: receive you as you are and have this energetic touch.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: So my question is, Pauline, if I may.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: So how often have you encountered this kind of understanding?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's definitely happened some times, but very rarely.
• 38:01
  And that is honestly a matter of my own capacity to know that
• 38:14
  this is how I want to
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: be touched,
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: so to speak,
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: and received and being open and giving.
• 38:23
  Or even receiving the other person's energetics to kind of,
• 38:28
  you know,
• 38:29
  have me as a meal.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is a...
• 38:38
  The way I'm describing it now and actually feeling into it is
• 38:42
  it feels pretty advanced.
• 38:44
  And so there haven't been many times I've had this experience,
• 38:50
  but I've had it.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: I've had it some like a few times.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: And because it's sounds like, like a longing almost.
• 39:07
  yes you you described it and most longings that common to our
• 39:16
  lives remain longings
• 39:19
  so that's why the question it is for sure a longing and
• 39:26
  actually i think one of my
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: biggest desires is to have this experience in this incarnation and um
• 39:37
  The shape of this has really only started getting clearer in my
• 39:44
  own consciousness,
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: more recently.
• 39:48
  The more work I do and the more I stretch myself and the more I
• 39:57
  am opening up to
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: the receiving of sort of my own longing and desire.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I can touch it more and therefore I can...
• 40:07
  sort of put it out into the field more using the codes of words
• 40:12
  and language.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of you have more say in in shaping that process.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 40:28
  And inviting the field to give me more access points to other
• 40:34
  humans or elements in
• 40:36
  nature or birds or whatever it is that can interact with me and
• 40:44
  hold me and touch
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: me in that kind of way.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: But first I had to locate that longing and desire within me to really
• 40:58
  hold it feel it receive it open up to it attuned to it yeah so
• 41:18
  to me to be understood
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: after you,
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Pauline,
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: have shared,
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think I see it more as a longing and more often than not,
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: that will just stay a longing.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the way, the picture that I see for that is
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: living in worlds,
• 42:01
  many worlds that don't really touch most of the worlds that
• 42:11
  currently hold most of
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: the people.
• 42:24
  So what I'm trying to say is it feels to me that my worlds are
• 42:33
  so distant and so
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: weirdly shaped that to be understood,
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: what it means to be understood is almost to not be
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: not scared,
• 42:58
  but to overcome such great distance that this distance maybe
• 43:06
  cannot be overcome in,
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: the short span of a human life on Earth.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is how it feels.
• 43:24
  But then I also know that sometimes these distances,
• 43:27
  they just overcome in the blink of an eye.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess, you know, it's this and that.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: It can be extremely long and it can be really fast.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, one
• 43:53
  moment you are very distant and then the next moment you are
• 43:58
  feeling understood and
• 44:00
  seen I think seen is the word that kind of like to me maybe
• 44:04
  reflects um better what
• 44:10
  does seen mean to you what is the what what's what is that like
• 44:15
  can you can you I I
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: think seen to me doesn't have the
• 44:23
  the connotation of using language because it refers to a
• 44:31
  different sense.
• 44:33
  Okay,
• 44:34
  I'm seen and that doesn't involve a lot of explanations and
• 44:41
  using sentences carefully and
• 44:46
  convincingly and describing things in a way that's accurate and
• 44:52
  understandable um
• 44:57
  which again i think it's something like my my baggage that i'm
• 45:03
  carrying with that
• 45:04
  but seeing seeing sounds simpler what what's the film efficient
• 45:12
  and more possible
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: But what is the felt sense when you feel seen?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: What is that for you, if you had to describe it in language?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that feels like warmth in my chest.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 45:35
  That you're being received even if someone doesn't fully
• 45:40
  understand the mental
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: language,
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: the exact coordinates of what you are sharing.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: Is that it?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, kind of.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the mental part is something that, to me, that is...
• 46:03
  where a lot of tension is in this understanding and i think um
• 46:13
  a lot of my
• 46:13
  experiences of not being understood they have to do with the
• 46:19
  mental part um and so
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: seeing kind of
• 46:29
  makes that less important the mental and is more focused on the
• 46:34
  senses right so
• 46:38
  going beyond the words and then mental aspect to actually
• 46:42
  attune to what it is that
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: you are like which aspect of you you're sharing so that would
• 46:53
  lead to you feeling like you're being seen beyond the words
• 46:59
  right the sentences the
• 47:02
  the exactness of that surface language and more of your like
• 47:08
  felt experience and
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: the energetics am i getting that right yeah exactly yeah
• 47:15
  It's like it creates another dimension of something where
• 47:18
  understanding or being
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: understood doesn't have to happen in the way that,
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: that is familiar to me.
• 47:27
  And so maybe by getting into an unfamiliar zone or using the
• 47:34
  language that is not
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: usually used for understanding the whole field could be changed.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that makes me want to come to whoever I want to be received by.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: And instead of saying, can you listen, I kind of want to say...
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: Can you feel me beyond the words that I'm going to use right now?
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because I want to be felt in my resonance,
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: in my frequency,
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: with what I feel like sharing with you right now.
• 48:13
  Can you expand your listening and receiving and locating
• 48:21
  capacity to really feel me
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: beyond the veil?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm having goosebumps.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I want to engage in going forward.
• 48:47
  I wonder if this is what many women mean when they get
• 48:52
  frustrated with their
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: partners,
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: when they feel like they're not being heard.
• 49:00
  because they are actually potentially maybe really having this
• 49:04
  need to be felt
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: beyond the words.
• 49:09
  Like there's an energetic frequency that wants to be received
• 49:12
  and engaged with.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: And we are very limited with language.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if our partner
• 49:21
  doesn't even know what is meant by this like next level
• 49:28
  interaction of going with
• 49:30
  your sensing capacity and attunement capacity of going beyond
• 49:34
  the words you using
• 49:35
  them only as you know kind of a protein that's being carried by
• 49:41
  a blood cell in
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: order to arrive in
• 49:46
  the energetic pool of what the you know the the woman is trying
• 49:51
  to point to yeah i
• 49:56
  mean being understood being a woman and understood by men or
• 50:01
  being a man and being
• 50:02
  understood by a woman i think it's such a such a complex story
• 50:09
  yeah yeah um but
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: actually my question was going to be what does it
• 50:15
  take to be understood and by what does it take pauline i mean
• 50:22
  something that you
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: touched on um it's like i guess what kind of capacity do we need um
• 50:40
  to be let's say to be understood to be more on the receiving
• 50:46
  side but as we've
• 50:47
  discussed of course it's a um like a relational process
• 50:52
  entanglement attunement and
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: things like that but um yeah like what does it take from you
• 51:06
  i want to answer because i actually i wanted to say this even
• 51:10
  earlier and then i
• 51:11
  definitely want to hear what's coming up for either as well i i
• 51:15
  think that not just
• 51:17
  think i actually have a felt lift sense of this at this point
• 51:22
  that in order for you
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: to have any hope of being understood
• 51:30
  in terms of the kind of touching and receiving that I'm
• 51:33
  describing from my reference point.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: You need to really hone in on your own internal signal.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be able to locate yourself,
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: locate what it is that you want,
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: desire,
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: need,
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: hope for,
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: and have the energetic clarity,
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: attunement,
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: whatever word you want to use,
• 52:00
  to send that kind of clear signal carried by words that are
• 52:09
  limited to another
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: human and potentially there's an openness in that other human
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: to receive beyond the words the clarity of your signal.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe then that experience is possible.
• 52:31
  But I know that if I don't have clarity of what is it that my
• 52:37
  desire is or need internally,
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's like almost setting everyone up for failure from the get go,
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_02: because if I don't have a clear internal signal,
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: how are they going to receive it unless they have,
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: very expanded energetic capacities?
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: When what we're using to communicate on the surface is words,
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: but of course,
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: underneath it is energetics.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: But so and how clear is their field to be able to
• 53:11
  attuned to another field beyond their ego,
• 53:16
  their mind,
• 53:16
  their mental capacities?
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: How comfortable are they touching someone on that level?
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: Do they want to?
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: All of these elements,
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like,
• 53:31
  is what is part of this very multilayered and not
• 53:39
  straightforward equation.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: So this reminded me of our conversation holding space.
• 53:48
  And one of the things that you also shared then that to hold
• 53:53
  space for yourself,
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: it's really important to know yourself and to have this clarity.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm also wondering,
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: can we be understood in our confusion?
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: Is that at all a possibility?
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I come at it from this point of view of,
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: if I want to be understand,
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: if I want to
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: be able to hold space for myself.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's this, this, this that I need from me.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can I just be?
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see such a configuration?
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: if the signal is not clear within you,
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: you're actually potentially sending out multiple signals,
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: some of which cancel each other out,
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: some of which are oppositional.
• 54:49
  And to ask the receiving partner to have to sort through the
• 54:55
  various signals that
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_02: are actually coming through energetically,
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 54:59
  Because,
• 55:00
  I mean,
• 55:00
  even tone of voice can change the entire ask-receive equation.
• 55:08
  um the energetics the actual underlying desire all of that
• 55:12
  stuff will you know
• 55:16
  change the the capacity of the calibration mechanism that is
• 55:21
  that's based between
• 55:22
  the two two people for example who are engaging in potentially
• 55:28
  this kind of you
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_02: know sending receiving um
• 55:32
  mechanism so yeah if you don't have internal clarity at least
• 55:37
  in the moment that
• 55:38
  you're sending the signal intentionally um it would be very
• 55:43
  hard i think to be
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: understood unless the other person can just generally understand yep
• 55:49
  um i i can sense and i could tell with you know my various
• 55:54
  senses that this person
• 55:56
  is wanting something and needing something and i'm also aware
• 56:00
  of a bunch of
• 56:01
  different signals that are coming through and i'm just going to
• 56:04
  hold space for the
• 56:06
  fact that this person is not clear with one or two signals
• 56:11
  there's a bunch of them
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_02: and i'm just going to hold space for that that could also potentially
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: make someone feel like,
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: all right,
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: well,
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: they're at least receiving,
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: all of this,
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: this whole conglomerate of different signals that I'm sending,
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: and they're maybe welcoming,
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: accepting and engaging with that in some way.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: So that still could be a touch point.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: You could make a case they're receiving my diversity.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, diversity.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: Or the other person may have the wider,
• 56:52
  more systemic view of the situation and the capacity to
• 56:56
  decipher different
• 57:00
  confusing signals that you are confused about and you are not
• 57:04
  able to send in
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: yourself.
• 57:12
  haven't you been in a situation of dealing let's put it this
• 57:23
  way with helping
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: professional professional like a coach a therapist a mentor
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you are confused about yourself.
• 57:38
  You don't know what it is you experience about,
• 57:42
  what you want,
• 57:43
  what you need,
• 57:44
  whatever.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that person,
• 57:47
  because that person is a professional and that is his specialty
• 57:53
  exactly to untangle
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: this confusion and to see this confusion.
• 57:56
  And he says,
• 57:57
  or she says,
• 57:58
  like,
• 57:59
  this and this and this,
• 58:00
  what happens to you?
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you, yes!
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes!
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right, thank you.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_01: It happens.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or you see a movie or you read a book.
• 58:17
  And what you see or what you read about is exactly that
• 58:21
  experience of confusion
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: that you have no clarity absolutely whatsoever about.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: But you read about it,
• 58:30
  so you see the reflection of this experience and how it is
• 58:34
  expressed by another
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: person.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you feel like, yes, it's about me.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: This is my experience.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: And at that moment, you feel understood.
• 58:48
  even though maybe the other person was talking about absolutely
• 58:53
  different things,
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_01: but you recognized yourself in that.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_02: I would even, that's exactly it.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I would even say that
• 59:05
  the equation is is a bit more complicated because there there
• 59:09
  are different parts
• 59:10
  in us so yes a part might be like oh my god yes that's my
• 59:15
  experience and so one
• 59:17
  aspect of you feels seen and recognized and and um you know in
• 59:24
  resonance with
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_02: finally being described or received by
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_02: whether it's a person or something that they're reading in a new way.
• 59:32
  And yet there are other parts that have different needs and
• 59:37
  energetic frequencies
• 59:38
  and may need a different person or a different instance or a
• 59:42
  different description
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_02: to also be located.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 59:51
  This is the thing that I have been thinking about while
• 59:56
  listening to both of you.
• 59:59
  is that this longing for feeling understood is seems to me
• 1:00:11
  longing for shared
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: reality and i am convinced in my guts that we
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: Each of us lives in their own matrix.
• 1:00:36
  So in this experience of separateness,
• 1:00:40
  we are learning also because we are social animals.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: So shared reality is an imperative for us.
• 1:00:56
  But because we also have this very complex illusion each of us
• 1:01:04
  is enclosed in,
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: which each of us describes as their own reality.
• 1:01:14
  Finding someone who gives us a signal because it's always about
• 1:01:23
  the feedback loop.
• 1:01:25
  so like you need to send something outside this something needs
• 1:01:31
  to be received by
• 1:01:33
  another agent and this another agent different agents needs to
• 1:01:37
  send you a signal
• 1:01:38
  back which confirms to you that what is being received is more
• 1:01:45
  or less equal to
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: what you sent out but okay imagine
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: A sailor comes to an island,
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: inhibited by their local people,
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_01: so they meet for the first time,
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: they speak different languages,
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: they come from different cultures.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: They don't understand each other at all.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: So they start communicating with sign language.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: And one person expresses something.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: Another person expresses something,
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_01: and they both think that they understood what the other person meant.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: And both go away satisfied that, okay, I have been understood.
• 1:02:45
  Meanwhile,
• 1:02:46
  it's perfectly possible that,
• 1:02:50
  because they're coming from absolutely
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: different coding systems, they understood totally different things.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: Which means that the feeling that I understood does not equal
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: to the fact that this communication line has been clear,
• 1:03:19
  that what has been sent out and what has been received and sent
• 1:03:24
  back as a feedback
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: were actually the same things.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if we are looking for the ways of feeling understood better,
• 1:03:43
  then I would go back to my original metaphor of the resonance
• 1:03:50
  and attunement.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: So what does it take to be understood?
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's also about,
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: so if,
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: like what I'm looking for,
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: for someone to share my reality,
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_01: and my reality is an illusion anyway.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe what I need to do
• 1:04:11
  is to shift somehow my illusion that I consider my reality to
• 1:04:17
  make it more
• 1:04:17
  shareable with the one who is close to me or like with whom I'm
• 1:04:27
  looking for this
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: shared experience.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yulia, when you were speaking about getting out of the familiar
• 1:04:42
  coordinate system,
• 1:04:44
  like to maybe to get out of the language,
• 1:04:48
  to go beyond the words,
• 1:04:50
  etc.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_01: What came to me is a project.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very, very, very curious project.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the idea dearly.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Dance Your PhD.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: So...
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: In this project,
• 1:05:10
  the different PhD students who have just completed their
• 1:05:18
  dissertations presented
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: the essence of their PhD work in the form of a dance.
• 1:05:34
  And I think this is exactly about going out of your system of
• 1:05:41
  coordinates to shift
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_01: your attunement to the world,
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: to the environment,
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_01: to make your affordability more available to that environment.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_01: Resonance, as we discussed before, is the responsibility of both sides.
• 1:06:07
  And if I want to feel understood more,
• 1:06:18
  it's also about how I am attuning to the world.
• 1:06:28
  Yeah,
• 1:06:28
  there were a lot of things that resonated that I wanted to
• 1:06:36
  comment on.
• 1:06:36
  I'm not sure if I remember them all,
• 1:06:38
  but well,
• 1:06:40
  first of all,
• 1:06:41
  it's a cool project.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 1:06:43
  I think the more projects like that we have that get us out of
• 1:06:52
  the usual algorithms that
• 1:06:57
  don't work and don't do anything you know to us better
• 1:07:02
  understanding each other um
• 1:07:04
  the better and the more funny they are but what i really
• 1:07:08
  appreciated it is first of
• 1:07:11
  all this dimension of in like out of the human plane and well
• 1:07:19
  if you read a book it
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_00: still was written by a human but we could also extend it um you know
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: To me,
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: actually,
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: the sense of being understood and the longing being satisfied,
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_00: came from being in nature.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: And totally it takes attunement from
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_00: both of us from the non-human world that I'm entering and my own.
• 1:08:04
  But somehow it's just so much easier to be understood and maybe
• 1:08:17
  because there are fewer
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_00: layers than we humans have for making meaning.
• 1:08:29
  And then I also appreciate the fact that I don't need to really
• 1:08:34
  work hard,
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_00: that I'm seen as I am in my confusion.
• 1:08:38
  I mean,
• 1:08:41
  of course,
• 1:08:41
  I would very much like to understand myself,
• 1:08:47
  but the reality is that
• 1:08:50
  sometimes i think i do maybe it probably refers to all people
• 1:08:56
  but then something
• 1:08:56
  happens and i'm constantly kind of becoming right and the next
• 1:09:01
  moment i don't yet
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: the moments when i want to be understood um are the ones where i need
• 1:09:15
  really need to be seen maybe because of my computer confusion
• 1:09:19
  or you know because
• 1:09:20
  of something else happening where um you know i need someone
• 1:09:31
  else's presence um and
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_00: so this just for me
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_00: if being understood,
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_00: let's say,
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_00: the price,
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_00: then if I know that I always have to work for it,
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: knowing about myself and not being able to afford that,
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about myself,
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_00: then
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, who cares about this price?
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_00: at least in the human sense,
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_00: because I've,
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: very precious experience of being seen by non-humans.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess that's something for me where a lot of tension is...
• 1:10:26
  um and then there was one more thing of you know us all living
• 1:10:33
  in our own worlds
• 1:10:36
  and realities which i totally agree you know we inhabit each
• 1:10:43
  our own world and
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: maybe not one world but several worlds so being seen in all those
• 1:10:51
  worlds and their uniqueness which come from us i think it's
• 1:10:56
  just um maybe not
• 1:11:00
  possible in this state of consciousness in the waking state of
• 1:11:06
  consciousness but
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_00: maybe if we make space for
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: the worlds of others that don't need to be similar to ours.
• 1:11:23
  And in fact,
• 1:11:26
  we may be okay with the fact that we have a very dissimilar and
• 1:11:32
  nothing like ours.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a good proxy for being understood.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I guess the last comment that I want to make,
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_00: and it's about the question,
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_00: what does it take to be understood?
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think more and more I'm seeing how critical,
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_00: crucial this,
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:11:57
  other states of consciousness are and being able to access kind
• 1:12:05
  of like very
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_00: diverse perceptual positions.
• 1:12:13
  Because if the only plane we're using is the language and the
• 1:12:28
  waking consciousness,
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_00: then it takes away all the depth.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it just takes away any hope of us being understood
• 1:12:43
  Because those worlds,
• 1:12:45
  they are not of waking consciousness,
• 1:12:54
  the worlds that we inhabit.
• 1:13:10
  I think that you're also talking about that feedback loop,
• 1:13:14
  which Ida mentioned earlier,
• 1:13:16
  right?
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_02: But there's also agreements that need to be made with the people,
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_02: at least people that we're interacting with,
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_02: which is not necessary to make with nature.
• 1:13:28
  But like,
• 1:13:31
  how do you,
• 1:13:33
  have you identified your need in terms of what you want to
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_02: share in order to be understood?
• 1:13:42
  And then has the other person agreed to receive you in a way
• 1:13:48
  that will facilitate that?
• 1:13:51
  And that makes me think of the video I shared with the two of
• 1:13:54
  you about the wheel of consent.
• 1:13:57
  It's very nuanced and we don't often I don't like I didn't see
• 1:14:03
  this clearly until I
• 1:14:04
  saw that video that there are really like different quadrants
• 1:14:08
  for how to tune in
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_02: with someone.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_02: And what I was talking about earlier about men and women,
• 1:14:17
  I think I often experience with the masculine that they only
• 1:14:23
  want to understand me
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_02: from their reference point,
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_02: meaning I have to fit into their framework in order for them to...
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_02: to feel like they've got it,
• 1:14:35
  which doesn't lead me to feel like I am being touched in the
• 1:14:40
  way that I want to be
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_02: touched and welcomed and felt and received.
• 1:14:47
  So it doesn't make me feel like that need for understanding
• 1:14:52
  from my perspective has
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_02: been received.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_02: But the nuance there would be that,
• 1:15:00
  that person would have to agree that they are going to open up
• 1:15:04
  their field and tune
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_02: in with me,
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_02: even if it doesn't make any sense to their reference point,
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_02: especially in the mental framework.
• 1:15:13
  And they're really just opening up to tune in with me
• 1:15:16
  energetically and receiving
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_02: me from that perspective,
• 1:15:21
  which is a very different and very nuanced and a lot of times
• 1:15:26
  pretty advanced
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_02: skillset,
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_02: And also there would be the element of the feedback loop there as well.
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I think when we're talking about the different realities,
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_02: which I also really agree with,
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Iyer,
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_02: with your description,
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_02: I,
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_02: for example,
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_02: don't need for someone to fully...
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_02: occupy my reality as theirs,
• 1:15:54
  but I do want for there to be space for my reality and for them
• 1:15:59
  to engage with it
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_02: or at least be able to engage with it temporarily or in some ways.
• 1:16:06
  at the same time as they have their own reality so meaning can
• 1:16:11
  there be more than
• 1:16:12
  one reality at the same time can we just welcome it can we
• 1:16:16
  learn to feel it to
• 1:16:19
  touch it to tune into it can we expand the the spectrum that we
• 1:16:25
  are existing on
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_02: because everything yeah go ahead no go ahead
• 1:16:32
  well everything changes based on your coordinates right and and
• 1:16:36
  what your vantage
• 1:16:37
  point is so yeah exactly it's but when you are talking about
• 1:16:47
  you're like okay i
• 1:16:48
  want uh in for them to make spans some space for my reality in
• 1:16:59
  their reality so
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_01: like we're talking about that
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_01: For a certain moment, we want these realities to intersect.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And at this moment, they begin to be shared.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe not fully, but there is still some certain shared space.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And when we are talking about that, I need to understand and to
• 1:17:30
  communicate what I want,
• 1:17:33
  what I need,
• 1:17:34
  and this is how I want to be received.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, we're talking about that we need to establish the shared code.
• 1:17:49
  And this shared code,
• 1:17:52
  basically,
• 1:17:53
  this is what facilitates the possibility of a shared reality.
• 1:17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's very well said.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Girls on that.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_00: We can.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Our episode is coming to an end.
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I just looked up the time.
• 1:18:20
  And yeah,
• 1:18:21
  maybe if you feel like it,
• 1:18:22
  feel free to take off the masks or stay in the masks.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_01: I like this experience of talking in the darkness.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_00: I very much enjoy talking in the darkness.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_01: It does accentuate the experience of a shared field.
• 1:18:50
  So I literally perceived the three of us hanging in the same
• 1:18:59
  space,
• 1:18:59
  having shared cosmos.
• 1:19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:19:07
  I have to get a mask that doesn't get all my makeup everywhere
• 1:19:11
  next time.
• 1:19:12
  SPEAKER_02: We need some kind of makeup mask.
• 1:19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to be wearing fancy makeup masks.
• 1:19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that was a rich discussion.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
• 1:19:33
  appreciate it i did have a few more questions um and maybe oh
• 1:19:42
  so let's me just um
• 1:19:45
  you know ask your opinion on one more before we do the recap
• 1:19:51
  and that question is
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_00: and this is something that kind of like you've been sharing um
• 1:19:58
  where am i at what do i want what is my desire now who am i now
• 1:20:04
  so the question is
• 1:20:08
  if we are seen or fully understood the way even we described it
• 1:20:15
  as a longing by
• 1:20:17
  someone does it mean that a little bit of that shared field
• 1:20:23
  stays or does it have
• 1:20:27
  SPEAKER_00: to
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:20:29
  be constantly retuned and going through the same process
• 1:20:34
  because to me it feels
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 1:20:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_00: being a hamster in the wheel or something.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, what is the dynamics that you see there of being understood?
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think nothing is permanent in this world.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think you both have experienced that.
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_01: The moments of this deep intimacy with another person,
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_01: like when you really,
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_01: you don't need words and you share this reality just through the eyes.
• 1:21:15
  And then it's a flitting moment and it's gone and you don't
• 1:21:20
  know how to catch it again.
• 1:21:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:21:27
  I think the more we are well-versed and practiced in being able
• 1:21:34
  to feel with
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_02: another human,
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_02: just that capacity to feel with,
• 1:21:44
  helps to have more of that attunement or more of those touch
• 1:21:50
  points with certain
• 1:21:52
  SPEAKER_02: people.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that builds up over time in specific relationships,
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_02: like the ability to feel with,
• 1:22:08
  but that's certainly not how society and the structure of our
• 1:22:17
  communication is set
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_02: up.
• 1:22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that is not what it is pointing to.
• 1:22:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a very different
• 1:22:25
  skill and also your own personal capacity to feel with shifts
• 1:22:29
  and fluctuates all
• 1:22:30
  day long and right like based on what you've eaten how much
• 1:22:34
  sleep have you gotten
• 1:22:36
  how received have you been this week have you been received
• 1:22:42
  because maybe you
• 1:22:43
  SPEAKER_02: haven't and so you're fucking starving
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Let me receive you, baby.
• 1:22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I cannot feel with you today, Yul.
• 1:22:53
  SPEAKER_02: I need you to feel with me.
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_02: But who has these conversations?
• 1:23:00
  SPEAKER_02: You have to really, right?
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_02: You have to know that this is what you need.
• 1:23:04
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be able to place yourself there.
• 1:23:08
  And then the next step is to ask someone,
• 1:23:12
  would you do this with me or for me?
• 1:23:15
  SPEAKER_02: and also honor where they're at because maybe they're just,
• 1:23:18
  SPEAKER_02: they're not there today or they don't feel like it and that's okay too.
• 1:23:24
  But there's so much nuance and so many new muscles that would
• 1:23:28
  be required for this
• 1:23:31
  SPEAKER_02: that are not how society works.
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 1:23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I do agree with you about the fleeting moments.
• 1:23:43
  And I think if I were to think about those moments when I felt
• 1:23:48
  seen and deeply
• 1:23:49
  SPEAKER_00: understood,
• 1:23:50
  SPEAKER_00: they were very fleeting.
• 1:23:52
  SPEAKER_00: But they were fleeting moments that,
• 1:23:55
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:23:55
  SPEAKER_00: it's like one moment can expand into an eternity or a universe.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And those were just absolutely the coolest moments.
• 1:24:08
  Because it's something you can actually feel and hold on to
• 1:24:12
  energetically.
• 1:24:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then have it for you.
• 1:24:18
  SPEAKER_02: That reflection point.
• 1:24:20
  SPEAKER_02: That sense of being received and tuned into.
• 1:24:25
  SPEAKER_02: You can hold on.
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_00: They have created an altered state.
• 1:24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like on the scale of altered states.
• 1:24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Rather altered.
• 1:24:39
  SPEAKER_00: let's see um yeah um kind of like a trancy where i think that interaction
• 1:24:53
  entanglement is like and some something chemical um took place
• 1:25:03
  that changed the
• 1:25:05
  SPEAKER_00: dimension of
• 1:25:06
  time and space and whatever but then it was fleeting if we
• 1:25:14
  measure it by our time
• 1:25:16
  scale but you own it now it's in your toolbox it is something
• 1:25:22
  that is now alive and
• 1:25:23
  SPEAKER_02: you can
• 1:25:25
  you can access it it's in your repertoire now it's your part of
• 1:25:30
  your frequency uh
• 1:25:32
  yes i mean it's i'm not like a toolbox yes i know what it feels
• 1:25:36
  like and it's
• 1:25:39
  SPEAKER_00: because i've done it's probably easier for me to do that again uh yeah
• 1:25:52
  SPEAKER_02: And does it even require an outside person?
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like if it's in you now,
• 1:25:56
  do you even need someone on the outside or is it something it's
• 1:26:01
  now in your system?
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, there is something else.
• 1:26:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, well, we're never alone, right?
• 1:26:13
  We're like always in an entanglement with someone or something
• 1:26:20
  and usually with many things.
• 1:26:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess if I'm in the forest,
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_00: can I identify this particular plant,
• 1:26:32
  SPEAKER_00: that particular tree that I had this interaction with?
• 1:26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Usually, yes.
• 1:26:39
  SPEAKER_00: But actually,
• 1:26:40
  SPEAKER_00: also,
• 1:26:40
  SPEAKER_00: I shared recently that I had this...
• 1:26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh,
• 1:26:45
  SPEAKER_00: this was a very fleeting,
• 1:26:49
  SPEAKER_00: longing-like
• 1:26:51
  encounter with the fox who we just had long eye contact with
• 1:26:57
  was just being in
• 1:27:00
  space um but it does yeah it does take like another party you
• 1:27:12
  wanted to say
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_01: something i wanted to say that even you know like um
• 1:27:21
  accessing again that experience that is stored within you still
• 1:27:28
  requires attunement.
• 1:27:30
  SPEAKER_01: So attunement is the constant process.
• 1:27:35
  But it doesn't have to be hard work because it's just the skill
• 1:27:41
  that we are honing.
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_01: So the more they hone it, the easier it becomes.
• 1:27:48
  SPEAKER_01: But it's still, you're like, you can't
• 1:27:51
  uh tune the piano just once and then it will play the fine tune
• 1:27:56
  forever you need to
• 1:27:58
  tune it periodically so it's the same with us but i i do wonder
• 1:28:06
  whether going to
• 1:28:08
  SPEAKER_00: our discussion on um morphic resonance whether
• 1:28:15
  SPEAKER_00: If people,
• 1:28:16
  if humans were to understand each other and maybe get into
• 1:28:20
  those entanglements with
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_00: non-human words more,
• 1:28:24
  SPEAKER_00: would understanding get easier?
• 1:28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like this kind of like deep understanding.
• 1:28:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:28:33
  Because that skill would be honed and then transferred to the
• 1:28:38
  level of the whole human field.
• 1:28:45
  SPEAKER_01: I can see that.
• 1:28:51
  SPEAKER_01: We can get bad at the skill of the attunement,
• 1:28:54
  SPEAKER_01: of the mutual attunement,
• 1:28:56
  SPEAKER_01: but there is still the question of shared code.
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And here...
• 1:29:11
  I'm not sure that the expansion of the morphic field guarantees
• 1:29:22
  necessarily shared code.
• 1:29:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 1:29:27
  SPEAKER_02: if we're pointing to the energetics behind the code,
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_02: it's not about the words,
• 1:29:31
  it's about the frequency and the vibration of what it is that
• 1:29:36
  we are experiencing.
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_02: expressing or receiving, then the code matters less.
• 1:29:42
  It's more about the attuned ability to energetically point to
• 1:29:49
  what it is you are
• 1:29:50
  sharing and the other person energetically being capable of
• 1:29:53
  like feeling it,
• 1:29:55
  SPEAKER_02: regardless of what the words,
• 1:29:56
  SPEAKER_02: the words are only carrying the energetic frequency we're pointing to.
• 1:30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but by the code, I don't necessarily mean words.
• 1:30:05
  SPEAKER_01: What else do you mean?
• 1:30:06
  SPEAKER_01: You still need the code to interpret this energy.
• 1:30:13
  And if the morphic field could certainly help with that,
• 1:30:17
  it's almost like a software upgrade.
• 1:30:21
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 1:30:24
  SPEAKER_02: An energetic software upgrade.
• 1:30:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is something I need to sit with more.
• 1:30:33
  SPEAKER_01: It requires further exploration.
• 1:30:35
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 1:30:36
  SPEAKER_02: We should have three episodes in just this one aspect.
• 1:30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Questions just keep coming.
• 1:30:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, but let's maybe recap and...
• 1:30:50
  say anything that we feel wants to be said following today's
• 1:30:59
  conversation.
• 1:31:08
  I want to say that in my experience darkness definitely helps
• 1:31:15
  with the attunement
• 1:31:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the tuning into shared reality beyond words.
• 1:31:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:31:29
  SPEAKER_02: When the visual is tuned down,
• 1:31:34
  then the being with the two of you changes in terms of holding
• 1:31:43
  and receiving and
• 1:31:45
  SPEAKER_02: even sending.
• 1:31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:31:50
  I feel like I was a little bit more touching the two of you or
• 1:32:01
  even touching myself
• 1:32:03
  in ways that I don't know that I access when the visuals are
• 1:32:08
  also really present
• 1:32:09
  SPEAKER_02: and they take up a lot of my mental capacity.
• 1:32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so maybe darkness and removing the
• 1:32:21
  SPEAKER_00: visual stream actually could be a practice for being understood and also
• 1:32:35
  understanding better but it could also be a it is an experiment
• 1:32:43
  and practice ground
• 1:32:44
  SPEAKER_02: for
• 1:32:47
  locating what it's like when we don't see one another in terms
• 1:32:52
  of how how do we
• 1:32:54
  like feel each other and what are those nuances and then and
• 1:32:59
  then capturing it
• 1:33:00
  within the system and then expanding at that capacity to still
• 1:33:04
  be able to do it
• 1:33:05
  even with our eyes open and looking with one another like
• 1:33:08
  wouldn't that be the
• 1:33:09
  SPEAKER_02: advanced practice the advanced skill i want that
• 1:33:15
  yeah i think actually it's something that creates more space
• 1:33:19
  and like that project
• 1:33:21
  that you described shared um it it kind of puts us a little bit
• 1:33:26
  out of the usual
• 1:33:28
  context and by that yeah increases the chances of seeing each
• 1:33:35
  other yeah okay well
• 1:33:42
  SPEAKER_00: thank you girls it was um
• 1:33:45
  SPEAKER_00: A great pleasure and a rich discussion.
• 1:33:50
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you to those who've been listening.
• 1:33:56
  SPEAKER_00: My invitation is put the mask on more often.
• 1:34:05
  And if you have anything that you would be open to share with
• 1:34:13
  us,
• 1:34:13
  we would
• 1:34:15
  SPEAKER_00: really be delighted to hear from you.
• 1:34:20
  SPEAKER_00: By the way,
• 1:34:21
  SPEAKER_00: if there is a topic or a question that you've been wondering about,
• 1:34:28
  SPEAKER_00: maybe you can suggest it for one of our conversations.
• 1:34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you have some experiments for us that, you know,
• 1:34:41
  SPEAKER_00: for group flow or for explorations would also be cool.
• 1:34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being with us and until next time.
• 1:34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening.
• 1:34:59
  SPEAKER_00: How was it for you?
• 1:35:00
  We believe that the more people experience group flow together,
• 1:35:05
  the better off we all are.
• 1:35:07
  SPEAKER_00: More connected, more creative, more alive.
• 1:35:11
  SPEAKER_00: So let's expand the field.
• 1:35:13
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• 1:35:20
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• 1:35:27
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• 1:35:30
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• 1:35:34
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• 1:35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Let's keep flowing together.