Latest / 🎙️ Rebuild & Fulfill Real conversations on burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before. / Rock Bottom Wasn't the End: Marc's Journey | Episode 2
Transcript
- Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Welcome back to Rebuild and Fulfill, real conversations about burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before. If this is your first time listening, I'm Kelsey Dunbar, and this show is about what happens when high-functioning people hit a wall, and how they rebuild their lives with structure, resilience, and hope. In our first episode, we talked about the idea behind this podcast, that a lot of people walking around today look like they have everything together on the outside, but internally, they're overwhelmed, burnt out, and quietly struggling. And one of the biggest ideas we talked about was this. People aren't broken, they're overloaded. When you carry too much pressure for too long, eventually something gives. Something that shows up is burnout. Sometimes anxiety or depression, sometimes addiction. Sometimes it's just waking up one day and realizing the life you built isn't working anymore. And that's where rebuilding begins. Which brings me to the person sitting next to me today, my co-host Marc Regala. Marc and I have been working together over the past year through Suffer to Tougher, writing together and speaking about resilience, rebuilding, and how people can move forward after life knocks them down. But what makes Marc's perspective powerful isn't just the ideas we talk about, it's where those ideas came from. Marc didn't arrive at this work from theory, he arrived here through experience. Years of addiction, struggle, loss. and hitting that kind of wall that forces you to either rebuild your life or lose it completely. What makes Marc's story so powerful isn't just that he went through it, it's how he rebuilt it. So today we want to do something important. Before spend episodes talking about frameworks and strategies for rebuilding your life, ⁓ we you to understand the stories behind the message. Because the principles we talk about on this show, resilience, structure, support, and strength didn't come from a textbook. They came from lived experience. What was life like before things started to unravel? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): I mean, honestly, was just family life. You know, and I know that sounds kind of crazy, but I mean, that's how a lot of these stories start. I was one college. ⁓ I got married at 19 years old because my high school sweetheart was expecting. I dropped out of college. I started in the insurance industry mainly because my grandfather and my dad were in the industry and I knew that they were successful. So I thought, okay, well, if I got to support a family, they were successful. I could be successful. My wife was a stay at home mom ⁓ for bulk of our 25 years of marriage. I had four kids. had my son and my three daughters. I was very active in their lives. ⁓ I I helped coach my my son's basketball. I was a regular on the baseball field. helped coach my daughter's softball, my oldest daughter's softball. You know, her basketball, two younger daughters are really active in like Girl Scouts, Daisies, Brownies, Girl Scouts, all that stuff would go to other functions. Kind rose up the ranks in the insurance industry, went from a sales representative to a manager. Honestly was making more money than I ever thought I would make without a college education. And, you know, from the outside looking in, it just was regular family life. You know, being a dad that was, you know, trying to find some balance, you know, between a father. and trying to support their family. But, you know, I mean, it stressful. I'm not lie, but I mean, I just did what I needed to do to ⁓ try to my family happy and ⁓ try to my clients happy, if that makes sense. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, so every rebuilding story has a moment where something breaks. So for you, when did you realize things weren't stable anymore? there a moment where you knew you had hit that wall? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): That's an interesting question because if you would have talked to me when I was going through my struggles, I would have probably gave a very different answer than the answer I give now, which is five and a half years into sobriety when I reflect on my life. You know, back then... You know, I stayed away from alcohol for a long time because of some alcoholism that ran in my family. I found myself, you basically, you know, starting to drink a little bit after work with the guys from work. My diet ridiculous. I mean, I of depression. I mean, I wasn't putting anything healthy in my body. I gained a lot of weight. Was introduced to prescription pills ⁓ And that was, you know, I basically became an opiate addict. if you would have talked to me back then, it would have been ⁓ I started taking the pain pills, not as prescribed to get through the workday. and really become a prisoner of that substance. I look back at it now, and you know, I have worked with therapists. worked with, but I didn't work with the therapists until I was in the weeds of my addictions. And had underlying mental health basically dating back to when I was in middle ⁓ You know, got a PTSD diagnosis. I got a general anxiety diagnosis. ⁓ I did from panic attacks. Really most of childhood into my life. ⁓ And I have the diagnosis of major depressive disorder. I look back at it now, know, it really, the stresses of life and the fact that I was an anxious person and really had social anxiety as well. So I really never felt comfortable being in a room with the CEO of a Fortune 600 company. I was relying on, self medication because of all the stuff that was going on inside. I would have to have a couple of drinks to kind of loosen up, to talk to people that I thought were superior than me, if that makes sense. And that's really the earliest sign self-medication. But again, I didn't really view it as self-medication because of what was going on inside, because I really just thought that I was, that was I didn't know there was a mental health diagnosis. ⁓ And it was same thing like with the pain medicine, you know, the pain pills. mean, the first time took them ⁓ not as prescribed really for like a public presentation the insurance industry, because I used to get panic attacks. didn't know it was a panic attack, publicly. And the first time I ever had that would have been dating back to like sixth grade in a speech that I was doing ⁓ the JFK assassination. But I just thought I was defective. I just thought there was something wrong with me. ⁓ it would really beat me up on the inside, you know, knowing that I knew the industry and I knew the coverages and I knew how to sell because I was very successful in selling, but I couldn't get the words out when I would speak to a group of people or 15, 20 or hundreds of people. It didn't make a difference. I literally would fighting through a panic attack. So I started taking these pain pills, you know, kind of through that and, lo and behold, ⁓ because it kind of took the off, I wouldn't have panic attacks and I'd be able to convey the information the way I wanted to convey the message all along. You know, so the wall started pretty early, ⁓ probably when I went into and had to publicly speaking, you know, just not dealing with the stress. of life, the way I should have been dealing with them and not dealing with the panic attacks the way I should have been dealing with them with proper coping skills. But I was in it, it really was when I started taking the pills not as prescribed and knew that I was getting addicted to them, if that makes sense. ⁓ Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. one of the biggest barriers people face when they're struggling is shame. So how did shame show up in your life during that time? Did it make it harder to reach out for help? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): yeah, ⁓ didn't reach out for help. Basically. ⁓ I up in a household where it you know, not sure your feelings, man up, you know, be strong, push through all that stuff, which again is probably like an everyday American household. and I just needed to do to survive. But down inside, ⁓ knew that I was dealing with some dark thoughts, and I knew that I was always a very anxious person. But really it's when I started to self-medicate, and I want to emphasize I didn't even realize it was self-medication. I probably was self-medicating with food, junk food, fast food, well as the alcohol and substances, is when I started feeling shameful ⁓ and And then once I actually got hooked on the pain pills and couldn't off of them, it got dark it got dark really, really, really quick. I mean, to the point where I would isolate, I would go downstairs in my basement, you after the kids would go to bed for school ⁓ drinking by myself, started popping more pills by myself. And, know, we just kind of pondering life, intoxicated, if makes sense. ⁓ And, you how did I get here? How do I get out of this? What do I need to do to get out of this? I tried getting out of it a number of times, ⁓ ⁓ myself, trying to wean off the pills. you know, cold turkey, know, calling sick a couple of days to work and go through withdrawals and things like that. But worked, ⁓ the more you realize that you were kind of stuck in that pattern ⁓ with these addictions, ⁓ the and more you to hate the person in the mirror. And the more and more you start pondering how the hell did I get here? Because even though it happened over the of a lifetime, you know, dating back to middle school, the panic attacks and the anxiety and so forth, the addictions grabbed hold fairly quickly. And you know, that was just a very short period of my life. I would say probably a five or six year period in my life. But during that five to six years when I was trying to beat it on my own and was living with shame and living with guilt, there was so much that happened, Kelsey. You know, I mean, I ended up losing my marriage at 25 years. I lost my relationship with my children that were adults at that time and they still not accepted my amends. Ended up losing that job. mean, so much happened. mean, multiple overdoses, a car accident where my head went through the windshield and I had a traumatic brain injury. Couple visits to psychiatric care, several visits to treatment for drug and alcoholism. And those visits to psychiatric care treatments drug and alcoholism ⁓ was when I couldn't hide it any longer. And you know, the wife was coming to me and other relatives were coming to me and saying, what's going on here? And that's, know, and that's really when ⁓ started to explain what was going on, but I still had so much shame and so much guilt and, you know, felt terrible for what I was doing to my family because I know I caused some traumatic episodes for ⁓ in that household, you know. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, so every rebuild has a turning point or is, you know, we like to talk when we're out doing presentations, threshold moments. what was the moment or series of moments that made you decide something had to change? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Well, I knew something had to change things spiraling. I just didn't know how to get out of the hell that I was in. I mean, think that's important to understand. Addiction is like ⁓ in hell earth. I mean, there were moments, you know, I had time where... I was picked up at the train tracks in Westmont with severe depression, severe withdrawals, couldn't get any more pain medication and was just so damn sick. You know, and that was my first visit to psychiatric care. First responders picked me up there. I had plans on jumping in front of a train. I had a day where I overdosed twice on the same day. I had that car accident. But truthfully, most pivotal moments for me ⁓ was last overdose. ⁓ You when I ⁓ I much was dead I mean first responders had to Narcan me a couple times and I got sent to local hospital and I woke up in intensive care ⁓ and was basically told that my kidney and liver had sustained a little damage, my functions were off. But they said that if they were able to stabilize those functions, ⁓ they were to send me down to psychiatric care for the last time because my mom had a form, because of the condition I was found and she was making the medical decision for me. ⁓ And I really didn't want go down there. And I went down there really the intention of trying to get out of there as quick as possible. Truthfully, it was a gentleman that came in the third day that shared his lived life experience and it's kind of weird because He of all the people that they sent in to speak to us it was an African-American gentleman from the South Side of Chicago and He had a run with heroin for like 17 years and was in and out of treatment so many damn times and he got into the weeds of his story and his childhood and all this stuff and When I speak at the hospitals, I always make this joke I mean his story made my story like my story was Disney World because of all the chaos in his life When I remember seeing him speak I my job probably was dropped and this is where my ignorance was back then because truthfully He not look like a man that lived that life. I mean he was physically fit He was He was dressed professional was in the middle of his workday. He came to speak to us on his lunch break and You know beat it he was was living a life of recovery. had a recovery lifestyle, but he also was living a life of service and sharing his story with others. And he was the only one at that particular time that I knew that beat opiate addiction. point, everybody pretty much was dying around me. And when I say everybody was dying around me, we're talking like white collar professionals that are providing for their families, not quote unquote, and I hate this word, ⁓ junkie the corner. You know, which is the stigma out there. I going up to him afterwards and he much me straight up. He's like, listen, ⁓ he's like, you to go into treatment again. He goes, you have to work a program again. But he said something was so profound to me. And he was swearing, you he basically said, ⁓ he goes, and you listen me and listen to me loud and clear. He goes, the real work starts when you're charged from all medical care. And it's on you every single day that first morning to do the things that you need to do to one, stay sober and to keep your mental health in check. And again, that wasn't, it wasn't my first rodeo. know, I was in treatment multiple times, but I was in treatment multiple times, you know, I felt good. had what you call medically a pink cloud effect. ⁓ I that I had it, but then I would come out and I'd start living my life again and, ⁓ didn't change a damn thing. I guess because this gentleman shared his story and I saw what he looked like. And in my mind, he didn't look like a drug addict, okay? ⁓ yet he was a drug addict in recovery at that particular time. ⁓ like, you know what, if this dude told me to try to run through a brick wall, I'd try to run through a brick wall because he's the only one that beat that I knew that beat it. And also I took his words to heart because when I in treatment several times, I never changed a thing. I just came out and started living my life again. But you know, here he is. telling me what to do. ⁓ I listened and went to treatment and I went to an outpatient program and I was starting to do some things when I was in the outpatient program, like go to meetings in the evening and, you know, take walks around the block and things like that. And then I got discharged, I'm like, okay, I'm going to give this my all because if I don't give it my all, I'm going to end up dead. And I was very lucky that I wasn't dead at that point because I probably should have died a hundred times over. You know, by the grace of God, I'm still here. You know, so I might as well fight. then he also said something to me too. He goes, you know, you're a pretty decent sized guy. goes, and he knew my territory. We talked for a little bit. So he knew my territory in the insurance industry was the South side of Chicago. And he actually said something. It was great the way he said it. He said, if you were, on an appointment on the South side of Chicago. and you were jumped in an alley, would you just let them beat the hell out of you? Or would you fight back? I'm like, no, I'm gonna friggin' fight back, right? He's like, well, he's like, guess what? You're in an alley fight against drugs and alcohol right now. He goes, you gotta fight like you've never fuckin' fought before. You know, and those words meant something to me too. Okay, I gotta make changes ⁓ I gotta fight to stay alive. ⁓ here's a guy that did it, ⁓ it's possible. provide hope and inspiration so let's give this a whirl. What do do? Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Awesome. All right, so speaking of his words where the work doesn't really start until... the day you come home from treatment, you wake up the next day and decide, what my life's gonna look like now. So speaking of that, we'll call that the rebuilding process. ⁓ that actually started, ⁓ did those early days look like? Because people ⁓ rebuilding ⁓ this huge transformation, but in reality, it's usually just smaller steps repeated over time. ⁓ worked for you? What did you try in those early days that really helped you ⁓ the foundation? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna get into that, I wanna say something really quick if that's okay with you. And that's like, at the end, I really don't remember much of the last year of my active addiction. I pretty much was a blackout for a year. It a sad life. mean, ⁓ I ⁓ locked a room, drinking vodka, on fentanyl patches, ⁓ and doing knows what. But at the end, I lived my life like an oxymoron. And I share this story at the hospital, story yesterday with the gentleman who's battling with an Oxycontin addiction. I would be ripped. mean, would be ⁓ wasted, I would be doing searches about recovery. And I learning about these feel good chemicals in the brain ⁓ and ⁓ was stories of inspiration of people that were in recovery and listen to their personal stories. ⁓ So completely my life like an oxymoron. And here's the thing it. Like when I got sober. initially, I'm like, okay, well, I wasn't back out most of the year. I remember it this way. ⁓ You let me go back and watch these videos again. And for whatever reason, because I don't have many memories of that last year, it was ⁓ how remembered it. I mean, I was actually taking in that information, which was interesting because I was educating myself at the end of my addictions, even though I was still heavily addicted to alcohol and substances. And I share that story when I speak at the hospital. And I cannot tell you every time I share that story somebody will come up and be like ⁓ I was admitting here three days ago But the night before I was doing the exact same thing and most of the time they're walking up to me in tears So ⁓ I want emphasize, you know that nobody wants to get out of the hell that they're in More than the person that's in that hell themselves They just don't know how to get out of it and I say that because I talked to a lot of family members like ⁓ Why don't just quit they don't want it bad enough, you know, They want it. There's nobody that wants it more than the person that's in that hell. They just don't know how to get out of it. I didn't know how to get out of it and that gentleman gave me some words of wisdom and I ran with it. Okay? as far as what it looked like the first day, it looked very different than what it looks like now. You know, we talk about in the book progress over perfection. It was little simple changes and I cannot emphasize that enough because because when you're told you gotta change everything, I mean, that's scary and daunting. People wanna run the other way. That's pretty much what you're told when you're in treatment. So it's like, okay, what's one thing that I can change initially? Well, learned about pop. mean, if I wasn't drinking vodka at night, I was drinking a lot of Diet Pepsi. Well, that aspartame in Diapepsi is terrible for your serotonin. Your serotonin is your mood altering chemical in your brain. cause depressed thoughts. So maybe I'll pop out of my diet. And that was the first dietary change. I read about the endorsement effect, which we get into in the book. Okay, that's your natural pain killer. That's your natural morphine, right? You got to exercise for that. Well, I wasn't in the position to be able to go to the gym and start lifting weights. And I mean, a win early on was just steps, you know, just walking, walking in nature, getting my body moving, making some dietary changes. And then trying to build on that you know but and then reminding myself that I'm forth the effort you know with mindset and positive affirmations and things like that. early it was really really small wins so there's progress being made and then we're growing and you add more thing okay well okay now I'm cutting Diet Pepsi out which is depleting my serotonin what type of foods could I put on my body that's going to elevate my serotonin how about I started eating more eggs. more chicken. know, so I made a dietary change there. I'm an anxious person, okay? So it's like, you know, I've read about anxiety and the whole sugar effect and you know how you get a sugar high with the dopamine, you know, but then you get the crash and your cortisol or stress levels rise, right? So it's like, okay, maybe I should start minimizing some sugar, you know, maybe about six to eight months into my recovery. So slowly but surely I was kind of building on the progress that was made, along with the exercise. as well. You know, going from walking to going to the gym to doing some light weight lifting to getting a little more aggressive in the gym because I enjoyed it. I felt better. It helped me getting those endorphins up and it helped me too because it was a natural opiate and it would help me with my urge to increase because even though you get sober, your mind needs to be completely rewired. I mean, you got thoughts to use probably a hundred times an hour, you know, but I noticed that if I work out, those urges and craves went away. So started working out more. So was a little trial and error, some education online and just trying to make baby or small steps, just progress to eventually get to where I'm at today, which is five and a half years. And I realized that people see me now and they see a way I live my life. it's like, remind them, it didn't start out that way. And that's the point I want to make to the audience. It just doesn't start out that way. ⁓ to make little changes and then build on that over the course of time. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, I mean, because one thing that we talk about a lot ⁓ is people don't rebuild their lives through willpower alone. They rebuild through structure. So what some of the structures that helped you stabilize when everything felt unstable? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): I live a very structured life. You know, I mean, to me, idle mind is a dangerous mind. Now again, structured back then looked different than structured now. It grew the course of time. But really I put my health first. I put my recovery first. You know, so, I started, going to the gym or walking and then eventually going to the gym. I started getting a little more structured with my diet. I got structured with going to meetings and going to outside organizations to get support, to kind of build a community of people, of like-minded people, wanted a sober life as opposed to a party life. And the one that I learned is you got to that on your calendar, things that are going to drive your health or things that are going to drive your stability and your mental health sobriety ⁓ and treat it like any appointment. You got to prioritize, I did do that. it was non-negotiables. so if I had to hit an AA meeting at 830 ⁓ in Westmont on a Saturday morning, well guess what? If somebody asked me to go breakfast or something else popped up, no, the meeting is priority. ⁓ Because I learned early on that if I don't have my sobriety and don't have mental health in check, you know, then, ⁓ you know, I ⁓ can't be ⁓ the best friend to somebody or the best, know, parent or employee or whatever it might be. So, you know, I always tell people all the time, I mean, it's the one area it's absolutely okay to be selfish in is when it comes to your health and you owe it to yourself and that's self-love. But by showing self love and taking care of yourself first, you become a better spouse, a better parent, a better employee, a better friend, et cetera. So that's pretty much how it was. And then it just built over the course of time where I started waking up early, I started meal prepping, especially once I started getting employed again in the outside world and had to integrate that. I had to make sure that I was working during the day, but I still was doing these things. early in the morning or in the evening. And then I got active in the recovery world as well. Once I hit about a year sober, I wanted to do what that gentleman did, you know, and that's as important for me as it is for the individuals in the room, ⁓ now I'm giving back and I'm feeling good about myself. You know, after all the damage that I did, ⁓ know, I'm actually providing a service and trying to help people get their lives straight by sharing my story. And it's very self-serving. And when I speak at the hospital, I tell them all the time, is just as much for me as it is for you. so you know mean, I, I, I'm up early in the morning now, five and a half years in, I'm at the gym. eat my breakfast. go to work. I speak at a hospital, run a support group. Man, I don't even have time to really watch TV, but it grew to point. it was little changes, structurally ⁓ driving my health, driving my mental health, ⁓ driving my then again, same thing, it just built over time. ⁓ Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, and also Marc often does his daily affirmations at nighttime before he goes to bed. And you can talk about that a little too. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Yeah, I mean, mindset resets are really, really important and focusing on positivity is huge. I mean, if you end the day on a positive thought, it's scientifically and medically proven that your feel good chemicals in your brain are going to elevate throughout the night while you're sleeping. If you're focusing on the negatives in your life and you fall asleep, you're going to wake up and you're still going to have that anxiety and maybe feel a little depressed because those chemicals didn't do anything or have anything depleted over the course of the night. it's very, important to focus the or the wins of the day. I don't care what they I mean, if it's early recovery and somebody's beat up, their body feels like they fought 12 rounds because they're coming off a major addiction. It could be something as simple as he a shower in the morning or you ate a healthy meal, you know, or you got up before 10 o'clock in the morning, as opposed to sleeping all day because you're still dealing with some depression, ⁓ you know, focus on the wins. of the day, I a lot of what I call brain research, you know, or if I'm going through a perceived negative situation, shitty situation, what's the positive I can take out of it? What's the learning experience I can take out of it? And I think that's important. And again, I got clarity of mind right now. all that brain fog is long gone. I haven't put a mind authoring substance in my body in five and a half years. I look back at it now. especially when my life was starting to unravel. All the perceived ended being ⁓ positives one way or another. like I said, that overdose. I wouldn't have been introduced to that gentleman if I didn't overdose that specific day and wasn't in intensive care for a couple of days prior to getting sent to psychiatric care. I mean, my car accident, my head went through the windshield. That helped me, ⁓ you know, for a variety of but one, I just couldn't Get in my car and drive to the South Side of Chicago to pick up more pills now Eventually, I got more creative. and found ways to get stuff. but it helped me initially, and The overdoses, mean same thing with that. I mean there's Relapses because I wasn't a one-and-done type of guy and we don't use the word relapse We use the word setbacks and the reason why we use the word setback is because one Relapse sounds dirty. I'm Marc relapsed again, but Marc had a setback. There's learning experiences from each setback. Okay. Well, what were you doing? were you in the wrong place at the wrong time? were you hanging around with the wrong people? You had a stressful time. Okay. How could I process this differently? What coping skills could I have used? It's all self-talk, man. You know, as long as you learn from these experiences, even if you made a poor decision, how do you not make that poor decision again? Okay. and how do we keep growing? so I just, I try to focus on positivity and I was talking to a gentleman a week and a half ago, he lost his job and he struggles on the mental health side ⁓ and ⁓ bad. ⁓ mean, when I bad, got over 50 hospitalizations over the course of his life. Okay. ⁓ I ⁓ he's, he's, call him a warrior. And when he lost his he really, really having some dark thoughts. And talked and during conversation, he rambled off like three or four huge positive things that happened in his life, ⁓ but he's just focusing in the moment. And I said, dude, I said, you're talking about... doing something to yourself, because you lost a job and you just literally rattled out three or four beautiful things that has happened in your life in the last six months. Let's focus on that right now. You can always get another job, and it's the same thing with the gentleman that I talked yesterday, that's battling ⁓ pretty hard, he was really down on himself and was, ⁓ talking some craziness. the conversation, he said three or four positive things. I'm like, yeah, but what about this? What about that? What about this? What about that? Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you're right. It's just, you have to rewire and train your brain. Just like we got to rewire and train our bodies. got to rewire and train our brain and the brain will rewire. And, we talk about habits and lifestyle. You want it to become a lifestyle. Cause right now the way my brain works is, I do try to focus even if I'm going through a shitty time. I do try to focus on what's the learning experience? What's the positive I can take away? how can I adjust moving forward? Because your greatest opportunities to grow ⁓ as human being are through the tougher times in life. It's not when things are going great. Your growth occurs when you're going through the tougher times. You almost have to welcome those tough times and figure out, I'm going through a tough time, but how can I grow here? can I change and so forth? And that's ⁓ an area that I've gotten at, at the same time, it's like, still need to continue to grow. I'm in a, I'm a big believer that, you need to be proactive versus reactive. And I'm also a big believer in complacency kills. You know, I mean, you know, complacency will kill the momentum, you know, that, that, that you have. ⁓ And I remember I a coach ⁓ and he was a coach way back when, when I was a kid, but he used to say, know, satisfaction is the first step to failure. got to continue to grow. tell people all the time, I mean, the competition is the person in the mirror and the competition is the person in the mirror that you were yesterday. And if we could just move the needle a little bit, okay, today, to make you a little bit better than yesterday and then wake up tomorrow, God willing, and do the same thing, you're gonna be just fine in life. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, so kind of expounding on you know, as far as, you know, rebuilding isn't just about changing behavior, but it's actually about that identity shift. ⁓ so for at point did you start to feel like you were becoming a different person than the one who is ⁓ stuck struggling? So when you kind of wake up have your your aha moment of like, really feel like ⁓ I'm in in a better place now. and becoming a different person. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. know, it's interesting. So when you're going through a crisis, you think you're doing a great job of hiding it and you come to the realization that everybody knew and you're the last one to find out that everybody knew. It's the same way in recovery, Okay. I had tunnel vision. And I was just focused on being better. And then started coming up to me, like friends and colleagues. And they're like, you you're inspiring me. I mean, I've been following you on Facebook, uh, people in my family. and I started thinking to myself, okay, well, you know, people are starting to notice this stuff. there's, there's something to it. I, you just don't see it, because it, to me, it's a non-negotiable, but yeah, I, I look back at it and it's like, it was really people coming up to me. probably about a year end is when I started really doing some soul searching and some reflection because I was so busy during that year, just focusing on myself, trying to stay sober and so forth. I had some reflective moments there when people started coming up to me and started noticing it except me. And then I started thinking, I'm yeah, I have come a long way. My diet now has changed. It's actually in check. ⁓ I'm exercising on a basis. I'm giving back now, ⁓ to the community because when the hospital speaking started. I know my, the way I carry myself is differently. The subject matter that I bring to the table is different. And, some or disciplines, whatever you want to call them, started ⁓ to form. it's, what's interesting is like, also, ⁓ disciplines rituals carried over to other facets life. That was not the intention, like. Something as stupid as doing my laundry and the way I fold my clothes. I mean, had people ask me all the time, were you a military guy? because you're so regimented and ⁓ ritual focused. No. But I much had to kind of have the same discipline mindset as a military guy because I was in a different type of war. And the war I was in ⁓ really, was, addiction. So I in that, ⁓ in that mindset, you know, if you about it from that perspective, Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): I'll sit. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): It doesn't make sense, you know? So it really was people coming up to me. And then, know, the gym too, Kelsey. look, ⁓ recovery, you look at that person in the mirror and you have, you hate that person in the mirror. Okay. You got disgust looking at that person in mirror ⁓ now you actually have clarity of mind and you realize all the fucked up things that you did. Okay. hated them. I'm just being honest. Okay. But I think that physical fitness is multifaceted when it comes to recovery. One, helps you with the brain chemistry, with the endorphins. ⁓ And two, body starts to morph physically. If you make dietary changes along with some physical fitness, ⁓ your body going to morph and it's going to morph probably a little quickly. And the first Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): you Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): I looked in the mirror and said, I'm starting to like that person in the mirror as when I saw the physical changes in my body. Cause you can't see the changes up here. People could see it, because the way you carry yourself, but you can't see that. You know, so I think physical fitness for people that, that ⁓ deal with alcoholism or is so common for that reason. The first time that they actually start liking the person in the mirror. is they start seeing the physical changes because they can't see the mental changes because they're in it. And then the growth just starts to occur over the course of time. I don't know if that makes sense. That's just how it worked with me. But I've talked to other people that are in recovery and they say similar stories too. But really it was people coming up to me, saying, oh my God, you know, you're getting in shape or, oh my God, you're doing so much good work in the community. And I'm just like, yeah, I'm just doing what I need to do. I don't think I'm doing anything special. I had to survive, you know. But to other people, it's like, wow, you you came a long way, especially people that knew me near the end of my addictions. I mean, I've had people walk up to me and hadn't, you know, I got sober during COVID, you know, 2020, July, 2020. So it's like, you're bouncing in and out. Some people were social distancing. you know, sometimes there was a stretch of, a couple of years that I didn't see somebody. So now all of sudden, knew the old Marc and now they see me now. ⁓ mean, I've had people like literally not even say a word and they literally just, could see their eyes filling up with tears and it makes me feel uncomfortable because it's like, just, I don't think I did anything special, but I get it. I understand where they're coming from because knew me back then and they knew what I looked like back then versus now. And it's like, holy shit, this guy worked his ass off. You know what I'm saying? And I think they respect that, which is cool. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, absolutely. So kind of bringing everything together, ⁓ just to kind of push this forward for other people out there, our listeners that are listening right now, feeling overwhelmed, ashamed, or maybe stuck, don't know how to get out of a situation. ⁓ So what would your advice be to them ⁓ understand about rebuilding them and how you yourself? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): One, you can't it by yourself. Two, it's okay to for help. And three, it's okay to express your feelings. It's okay to explain what's going on on the inside. I believe that secrets... ⁓ are like cancers that just fester on the inside. if you keep those secrets and those feelings on the inside and don't express it to your spouse or your parents or a friend or what have you, ⁓ just going to continue to grow and it's going to lead to some bad habits. ⁓ I see every single day in the work that I do. by expressing your by asking for support, by asking for help, by working with somebody to create some structure, it will allow you to not create the chaos in your life that I created in my life and be able to kind of turn the momentum into a different direction. That's a healthier momentum if that makes sense Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Well. ⁓ I'm sure our listeners really appreciate hearing your story. I never get tired of hearing it myself, no matter how many events that we've been to together. I always get something new that I hadn't heard before. So it's awesome to have other people learn from your experiences and how that changes people. ⁓ just been a beautiful thing to witness. But think one of the biggest takeaways from your stories is this. ⁓ Rebuilding start with perfection. It starts with honesty. ⁓ as Marc likes to say, open, honest, and transparent. structure ⁓ and support. And really what this podcast is about, helping people realize they're not broken and showing them how to rebuild stronger. So in next we're gonna shift gears and talk about my story. So I'll be the one on the hot seat. ⁓ And the experiences shaped my path and why I think that my message matters to others and matters so much me. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): you Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): how those experiences eventually brought Marc and I together to start the work that we do. So if episode resonated with you, make sure you share it with someone who might need to hear it. ⁓ And see you next time on Rebuild and Fulfill. Take care.