Latest / Behind Every Great Man / EP 56: You Can Reject His Pursuit. You Can't Erase The Desire (w/ Keith)
Transcript
- Jessica Zubchevich: Behind every great man is a great confident exceptional woman. Hi, and welcome to Behind Every Great Man. I am Jessica, your host. Behind every great man is a great woman who stays curious and has hard conversations. I'm with my husband. Thanks for coming back again. Thanks for having me back again. We have a new little studio set up. What do you think? This is great. I left the day bed because I thought it'd be nice to sit close to you. It's very comfortable and casual. Better than the chairs. It is, right? I felt very formal. Yeah. I feel very relaxed. Okay, good. Thanks for coming on, even though I know you're battling a cold. Yeah, but that's all right. Anything for you, babe. Okay. I can handle it. Just a cold. That would not be me, so you know. You got it out and I'm like out for the count, five to seven days. Day quill and let's go. So I wanted to do this episode with you. I've done a couple episodes on rejection. And man, it had a really strong response, surprisingly, by men. It was about repeated rejection and how men shut down and they don't reach for their wives anymore because they've been rejected so many times. And I had so many DMs and responses of frustration and resentment and anger towards their wives, towards women. And I don't feel complete on the topic and I'm not complete on it because it needs a male perspective. That's why you're here. Good. I want to talk about the husband's perspective about Specifically repeated rejection, because there can be rejection or a no because you're just completely depleted. It's your, you know, spends parenting, your work. Of course, that happens when you got nothing left. That's the husband and the wife. That's just normal. It's the repeated rejection that I would love you to speak into and what that feels like to be on the receiving end. First of all, the the vul the state you're in when you make an advance or you reach out to your wife in intimacy or or physical touch is a vulnerable moment for men. And and there's two things that play simultaneously that I think compound the emotion and and I and I saw some of the comments as well. And it is a very emotional topic for men. It's an emotional topic for two reasons. One is it's a vulnerable state to put yourself out there and say, I need you and I want you right now. So in that moment There's an exposure, there's a vulnerability that then has to be handled with care. So once in a while, if it's no, it's gotta be followed up with why and some level of touch so that the vulnerability is not abused and that vulnerability isn't isn't doesn't have an abrasive contact with no, right? Because if if all of a sudden it's no, then man, I I feel I feel frustrated now or I feel hurt. I I feel like I put myself out there and I was rejected. So that's that's the first emotion. Are you saying there's a w there's a specific way to say no? Yes, absolutely. Because if it's once or twice or if it's once in a while and there's something going on, you mentioned kids, work, you know, stress, having a cold. Yeah. They just have to s express that and say, Hey, this is why, come here. Like whenever you and I and it's very rare, and that's why you're my unicorn, is it's very rare, but when whenever it's not in alignment, you'll still say, Come here, give me a hug, or you'll you'll you'll pull me in. You'll you'll make sure that there's physical contact. so there therefore that moment has to be honored. It's a it's a vulnerable, sacred moment, and women need to know that about men. It's not just that they're now I wanna I wanna have sex. Like that's not sure that that's what maybe it feels like it what that's what it looks like, but inside there's that vulnerability of this is a need. I need this. Men need intimacy. Men need sexuality. So that leads me to the second part. The second part is men have a DNA in them of of conqueror. w it's in our DNA to build hunt, you know, it's it's in the male DNA to go out into the world and to go attack. I don't mean to like attack as in physical violence, but like attack the world. When men go to work, they're attacking their job. So it's in our DNA to have this mentality or at least this this core need that I and you and I joke about this all the time. You're a gazelle and I'm a lion. And when we're around the house and you wake up the lion, I always tell you, okay, I see you gazelle And and that's that's my way of saying that my hunt, my, my, my, my DNA to conquer, my DNA to to be a man, to masculinity is alive. And so in the moment of intimacy, in the moment when your husband reaches out to you, he's reaching out to you in two states that you have to honor. You have to honor the vulnerable state, you have to honor the need state, because that's a vulnerable position for a man to be in. I have needs that only you can fulfill, which we'll talk about. But I have needs only you can fulfill, and I'm putting my need out there for you, and I want you. And in that moment, honor that and take care of that. But then on the flip side, know that that's he's wired that way. It's an aggression. It's not an aggressive act, but it's an aggression. It's an it's a physical act. And that's why when when it's rebuked, then it has such an anger to it. Because not only has my vulnerability not been met with sensitivity and care, and I react with pain. Most men when I get hurt, I respond with anger. I convert fear and pain to anger. Most men do that. And the other one is that a lot of women do that as well. Sure, sure, sure. But I think that then the flip side of it is that then the man's conquest, his ability to feel like a man is unfulfilled. And that's the piece that lingers. The the the hurt feelings and the fact that, okay, you rebuke me is one thing that lingers. But what also lingers is the desire to be a man, the desire to be you know, to be a conqueror, the desire to be That aggressor to go in and and it and it and have intimacy. And so both of those are the reasons why men ultimately end up in in bad mental states or worse, that their behavior and some of the things they do begins to manifest itself in other ways. So you know you've rejected me before, right? No. Yes, you have. No. I know you have. I know you want to say that, but in eight years, I swear. You've rejected me. I don't drink and I know I was not unconscious. And as long as my heart is beating and I am conscious, I'm a yes. Keith. I think you were maybe sick or a long day and it was like a it was a whole I had to have you know a pneumonia or mono or I was in a coma. But the one time that I you did reject me. I know what that felt like. And I don't even want to say that as a joke, but I being on the receiving end of that, even just one time for me, I felt vulnerable. I felt embarrassed. I felt silly. I felt stupid. I felt like what where do I put my hands? I don't even okay. It felt so icky to me. And I really tried to drop into what that felt like that one time in eight years. Please tell me. I don't think I was there. What that felt like. And I I it hurt my heart to think that that would be repeated over and over and over. And in some cases, just coldly not following up like, hey. I know you you want me and I love that and I I love that you crave me and and I appreciate that right now, but I am so dead from the day. I got nothing left in me. Let's revisit that tomorrow. You handled it with care, you allegedly, I'm gonna say You allegedly handled it with care. Or that this situation was allegedly handled with care because I think that's the the my point is that when someone shows up like that, it's a vulnerable state to be in. Yeah. And you have to honor that. You ha y 'cause they want you. Like it man, it is it is such an honor to be desired. It's such an honor to be pursued. And I think w people tend to just take it for granted. Like, you're my husband and I'm your wife, and every once in a while we have sex. Like, man, that you're missing so much of the vibrancy of relationship and you're missing so much of the vibrancy of love. And intimacy, if you're not seeing that when your husband makes a move for you, it is such a pure, vulnerable, desirable state. And you are the only one that he can do that to. And so I know we're gonna talk about that too. You are his only outlet. You're the only person that can do that. Just like if you were to approach me, you're I'm the only man that you can do that to. I I I and when you get married, you accept that responsibility, that you you take the responsibility. Of being a recipient. You take the responsibility of being pursued. That's responsibility because and it's the healthy way. We're married. This is supposed to be happening. This is all part of it. Does it have to be, yes, but it has to be honored and it has to be respected. And most importantly, it has to be appreciated. Yes. And if you if you anything you appreciate, you treat with care. And so I think that's why you know, I think most couples just, god again. And it's like it just becomes an act or it just becomes r something that how he wants it all the time. Man. Be grateful your husband wants you all the time. It's so true. We don't go, I would say, I want to talk specifics here about you and I. If we go three or four days of not being intimate, I know you feel it for sure, but I feel it. And what I feel on my end is a lack of connection. We may feel it it's respectful, you know, in that time frame, it's Loving, it's how can I help you? How can I support you? It's like nice roommates, is what it feels like. What's lacking in that time is electricity, is fire, is feeling craved. I don't feel sexy. I feel nice. I feel like a mom when I'm in mom mode. I don't feel pursued. I don't feel that. Crazy fire between us. And I long for that. So that's when I will walk through the bedroom with a crop top on and nothing else because I'm looking. I know I'm awakening that in you and I see your head just turn. And I I get off on that. I don't know if I was to say that. It's true. And I and then the next day I feel after we're intimate, I feel Feel our closeness. I feel our bond is strengthened again. So that's why I don't like going long stretches, because I long to feel that with you. There's two things that I think we do a great job of. And you're right. For me, I need to feel intimate. I need to have an intimate connection to you literally every two to three days. and and if I don't, I feel the same way. I I I I feel like We have an amazing relationship and I you're my best friend. You're you're literally my whole you you're my universe. I think about you twenty four seven. I do everything for you. You're my inspiration, my motivation. You're everything to me. But if I don't have that intimate connection, it there's something missing. And even in the even in what I would say is my perfect love for you, I I honestly believe I have a perfect love for you. That if I don't have that intimate connection, it still feels a little off. It's missing something. And there's two things I think that misses one is the connection. But the other is that pot that fire. It's that it's that it's that moment. It's not an act. When I need to be intimate with you, it's never a physical act. It's it is always carrying with it such an intense energy that feels like a high. It feels it it is the unique relationship that only you and I have. You can be friends with a lot of people, but when you develop that chemistry of that electricity, the spark, the fire, the passion with another human being, it's one, it's one of one. And and you have to foster that connection. So the fact that, you know, when you don't feel the connection after a while, that's a problem because you can go numb, right? It can become normal not to feel that connection. But then again, that connection is also a a metaphysical connection. It's that thing that you had when and and I'll speak to your viewers, it's that feeling you had on your first date. It's that feeling you had when y she would come over to your house or you'd go over to hers and it would get late and and you would start to mess around. That That fluttering of your heart, that that your b your temperature gets increases. You, you, you feel the passion. It's not just, I I I want to be intimate with you. You're my girlfriend or you're my wife. It's that it's what comes behind it. And so that's the two things that I think need to happen is one, you need to maintain that connection, which is really important, but you got to find that fire. Cause the fire, that that feeling of the fire is what will motivate you to never lose that connection. Cause otherwise it's just a connection. But when that connection is made in a passionate way, there's nothing like it in the world. I I honestly believe it is the closest a human being can get to to ecstasy is that moment of connection with another human and intimacy like that. There is n literally no other moment in in in life that carries with it that moment when you're intimate with someone that you love. And so, man, you you you gotta work to keep it and y you gotta work to keep that fire burning. Men have Commented on their wives' excuses of why they aren't intimate, menopause, perimenopause, having their period, illnesses, so many different reasons. And of course, I have compassion for that. And of course, what there are seasons that are very difficult, but finding our way back to it, even having my period, and I feel like I'm pre- Harry menopause, I say to you, my body may be out of commission right now, but my mind isn't. And I do that because I want to have that connection with you. And then straight up, what goes through my head is I know you're a very good looking guy. You're healthy. You take care of yourself. You're successful. I would be an idiot to think that women wouldn't be interested in you. Of course they would be. So my inner dialogue, I am on it with just if you go these dry spells and you keep rejecting Keith, which doesn't happen, but if I did that, I feel like I am setting a timer for bad things to come in our relationship. Not saying you're running out and cheating, but it starts with maybe distance, frustration. you being distracted. There's all these different levels that I feel we open ourselves up to. And I'm just not willing to do that. So I do my inner work, what I need to do to stay connected to you. Yeah. I think that's important because the the intimacy challenges people and and I'm sure people like, well, we need to work on our intimacy. And I don't feel that way. And my wife always rejects me. First of all, frustration and anger with the word excuses. Is not a sign that you said no once. Those are responses from a man who has been rejected many times. Yeah. Right? Fr frustration doesn't happen on the one time. Frustration happens when it's all the time or it's most of the time. So listen to your husband when he speaks. He may say something that you should accept and realize that, I didn't think I was, but be open to the fact that you've lost touch with that or that you've given him too many no's, you've given him too many excuses. And start to work on closing those gaps like you do. You do an exceptional job at that. And I know you you've done episodes on that of how to maintain your connection to your own sexuality. Because it the the moment of intimacy is not just two people coming together. It's all the work they do before that moment. And I think we talked about it in the communication episode. The problem is never on the surface of the problem itself. It's usually upstream. There's something that contributes way upstream to the problem. And so always be open to not fighting over the You said no again. You said, you know, it was another excuse and I and I'm frustrated and I'm mad, you always reject me. Understand, like, okay, take a step back. Where's this coming from on both sides? Like, first of all, the man has desires and needs, and woman has to ask the question, Am I doing it too much? And then start to answer the question of why? And and you you touched on working on yourself. A lot of times people are not intimate, and I and I speak from the man's perspective. When men lose their confidence, they become less intimate. When men lose their their their their bravado, their masculinity, they become less intimate. And and and I know men that are emasculated men that have that are just not manly men and they're just not sexual beings. How does repeated rejection affect confidence and closeness outside of the bedroom? Yeah. That's that's what that's what I mean. There the w when the man is rejected in that vulnerable state, you've he he's been hit in his vulnerable moment and and he's gonna respond with one of two things. He's gonna respond with anger and respond with machismo and like, I'm a man, you can't reject me. He's gonna turn into anger. The flip side is his unreceived conquest now mutates and he starts pursuing other other avenues. But the third category is, and I and I know this happens a lot, is that when men are rejected a lot. Sex becomes less important to them. It's not that sex itself is less important to the man. I honestly believe that I mentioned it's in our DNA. It's who we are. Like testosterone in and of itself is a hormone that triggers sexual activity. I mean, you know, when men do testosterone replacement therapy, the first thing I hear them say is, man, my sex drag went through the roof. Yeah. So testosterone, which is natural in men, that's produced by our bodies. So that's what's pumping in our bodies all the time. So it is a natural instinct for men to want to be sexual. And I think honestly, when when a man gets their, you know, they get rejected and they start to get in their own heads and they start thinking they're not good enough. Or that, you know, my ability to, you know, be intimate with my wife and to be the the pursuer and to like a lion in a gazelle, I'm the lion, and all of a sudden I start thinking that I I'm not that person anymore, that may be an indication that your husband is not wanting to be intimate anymore. Which means he's suffering. That that's not a normal mindset of a man for to not want it anymore. And so women should really be very in tune with their husband's desires, very in tune with where he is and what he wants, because it will be a telltale sign, a signal that one of two things is wrong. Either he's suffering and he's just not being the man that he was really born or made to be, or he's going somewhere else. Like you you really need like you you say the clock is ticking. I speak from experience. Like I I I have not always been my best version in relationships. I have not I've failed relationships and I've failed relationships because of the fact that things that I wanted and needed I didn't vocalize. I didn't have the confidence to speak up and I didn't have the there wasn't there wasn't the right communication vehicle and we talked about communication last time. But communication is so critically important just for communication, but it's also critically important in this moment. Yeah. To be able to communicate about sexuality and desires, to communicate about intimacy, to communicate about needs at that level. If you can't do it, then then then it will go in your own head and and and bad things will happen. And women need to be acutely aware of that and not blame and women hate men. he he's a cheater. And you know, I again I I walk with that letter, but I you know, I I think when when you really understand why, well why is that happening and you take a compassionate approach? You realize that, you know, very few men, I'm not saying they don't exist, that they're just cheaters. They just need to go out. They just they have no ability to control themselves. Those are out there, but I feel like some of them just wanted their wife to give them the attention or just wanted to be that lion and they were not able to be a lion in their own home. They weren't able to be that desirable man in their own home. And like you said, someone will find them desirable. Someone will be their gazelle. Men are wired like that. I and I hate to say that because people are like, we're not animals. Well, yeah, we are. Humans are, you know, animals on this planet. We're a species on this planet. We are we our DNA is is encoded for very specific things. We eat, we sleep, we have offspring, you know, we we kill, we build, we tear down. Like those are animalistic behaviors. So we have to accept at some level that we have DNA that has just some basic carnal needs. And women should be acutely aware of them when they're man. You talking about having compassion for the cheater. I'm sure women hear that and they're like, This is bullshit. That fat guy. Yeah. That's fat guy. Right. And like you said, there are instances where he's just a serial cheater and that's just like that's him. You're not talking about that guy. You're talking about the guy who was rejected and has been shut down and shut out. For years. And there are those instances. And I do have compassion for that. Having compassion for men doesn't mean that I have any less compassion for women. My entire podcast is for women. It's dedicated to women. But that doesn't mean that I don't seek, I seek to understand situations. Because if we don't, where is that getting us? If you want to just continue down a path that's not working, that's up to you. I'm into What's going on swimming upstream? What is my part? What is my personal responsibility? Both partners doing that and then moving forward. You and I, when we were talking about this episode, we both when we heard this statement, it took us back. You can reject the pursuit. You can't erase the desire. And that is so true. Can you speak into that for men? Yeah, because that again, that's why when when when men have that testosterone in their bodies and they have the recipient that they want to pursue and it's only one person, that's when they're bringing that vulnerable self to the moment. But it's also that desire. Like I have a carnal desire. I have a desire to be intimate with you. That's alive in my body. If you reject me. I can stuff it, I can eat it, I can just stack it and go, okay, I'm just gonna sit here and you didn't want to, but it's still alive in my body. It's not going anywhere. Right. And that's where i you know, next time, then when we're intimate, I can cle I can clear that out. It's almost like okay, I I'm good now. But when you do that several times, you're not getting rid of the desire. It's actually starting to s stack up on itself and and unaccepted sexual desire mutates. It mutates into things where the man becomes aggressive. My uncle used to raise horses and he would talk about these thoroughbreds that were not fixed, not neutered. And he's like, I didn't realize that even horses, if people had no horses, when you have a thoroughbred, they they call it milking, you have to milk the horse. Right. Because if you don't, he will eat the fence. And my uncle was just his he was blown away by the fact that the f the horse ate the fence, like ate it. And why? Because his sexual frustration had built up in his body so much that he took the aggression out on the fence. So that unrelented desire, that that desire that we stack does not go anywhere. It it stays in your body and it has to be released some way. And men, you know, they turn to fantasy, like all of a sudden it's no longer in the real world. So I go in my own head. And then that's where porn addiction comes from. I hear women talk all the time, my husband's addicted to porn. Again, ask yourself why. I I'm not giving that a pass. I'm not saying that's okay. No, and nobody's saying that that's okay or to accept bad behavior. I don't I don't I when I say I feel bad for someone, it's not like I I accept them as doing the right things. Don't confuse me either. I just know that there's contributing factors on both sides in relationship all the time. Yes. And when one manifests it in bad behavior, the other one just judges. That's not the best way to handle that situation. The the best way is the way you handle it too, which is to understand why. We talked about in the communications episode. Why are you like she has to be okay with her husband watching porn or cheating, obviously. No, I didn't say that. No, no, I know. You don't have to be okay with that. It's simply understanding why and being curious of where this is coming from. And then you decide whether you're okay with it or not. You don't have to be okay with it, but you have to understand it. Like that's the way I'd say it. You don't have to be okay with it, but don't just judge it and not understand it. Yes. You could you could not like something, but accept, okay, I know why that's happening. My encouragement for both men and women is always understand why. Like even if a man is pursuing his wife and she's saying no a lot, like don't just get frustrated. Don't just be the victim and be like, I watched that episode with Justin Keith, and Keith said, I'm a man and I'm a lion and I should be mad now. No, I'm not saying that either. Because even in the moment of the woman saying no, if it's repeated no's, then the man should lean in and say, What's going on? Yes. Why why are you with compassion, with sympathy, with empathy. And the man, as frustrated as you are, should take a step back and go, Wow, she's saying no a lot. I I need to I need to understand. Again, I don't need to like that you say no all the time, but I should understand why you're saying no all the time. I would say all the responses from the guys of such anger and resentment. Some of I asked why. Do you know why she's rejecting you? And it's just met with, No, she's just cold, she's just shut down, she's a bitch. It's just like, okay. You're making that you don't know. You haven't sat her down and really tried to understand what's going on with your wife. Yes. Maybe you know what? And and there and I I'll I'll start the conversation. Like maybe she'd say, I don't find I don't think I'm attractive anymore. Ever since I had the children, I feel like I've put on weight. Right. She needs you to say, I think you're beautiful. Yes. She needs you to lean into that to make her feel beautiful. And then she reciprocates with intimacy. So that's why I said everything in relationships a two way street. And and I and I get so frustrated when I see, you know, couples fight and they're just accusing each other as if, you know, you're right, I'm wrong. You're always right, I'm always wrong. Like there's a this this always and never going on. And it's always a two way street. There it is. It is always a two way street. And it's never one person. So that's the only time you can use those words. But that's why I'm saying like men should understand, like, man, I wanna understand why my wife says no. I wanna understand what's going on. Because there's something upstream. Like she may she may have lost the spark for herself. She may have lost her own beauty, the way she sees herself. And just like men, when they lose their self-confidence, they become less aggressive with sex because I'm I'm not worthy. That's gotta be the same way on the other side. Maybe your maybe your wife needs Some TLC. Maybe your wife needs some encouragement. Maybe she needs you to just rub her feet one night and say, look, I love you. This is the intimacy I want right now. And it's not attached to anything. No deal. No expectation on it because it's huge. And make her feel good and then see what happens. And then slowly rebuild that relationship again. And then play games, right? Once you get to a place where you're both like, okay, we're in a good place. Like get back to flirting. You mentioned you walk through the house, you know, even there's moments where you awaken the lion and I'll just be Laying there out of the corner of my eye, I see you walk out in like a ho like a half top. I know what I'm doing. Nothing else. And it's like a lion is like, Okay, I'm waking up, there's the gazelle. And and you know it, I know it. And so it's that playful stuff that leads to the intimacy. It's not just roll over, it's eight o'clock, we're about to go to sleep. Hey, you feel like it? I feel like it. It's not that transactional. Right. So understand each other's inner feelings, inner thoughts and lean into those things and clear out. So that there isn't anything in the way and then start playing games to light the fire that brings that passion back to the surface. And then let the passion bring you two together again. We've had some very uncomfortable conversations about needs and desires. But we have taken a stance of curiosity. what is that? What are you into? What do you like? We don't allow things to just lurk in the darkness. And you've come to me about feeling wanted and craved because men want that too. As much as I want to feel pursued and craved, I know you want to feel that. I know you want to feel wanted and pursued and craved just the same. And I feel like women don't think that men want to feel craved and wanted the same. Yeah. Yeah. I men, you know, that n I don't care who you are as a guy, you want to look attractive. Yeah. I don't care who you are. And and when people when women find you attractive, it is a it is it's a it's a rush to your confidence, a rush to your ego. So you're right. Men want to be desired and craved just like women do. Yeah. But again, that's why I said it's a two-way street and there's things upstream as I know that I have to do the things I have to do to be attractive and to be craved. That's why with women, like if you want your husband to chase you and you don't feel sexy anymore, that's on you. Right. The man should lean in. And I'm I'm advocating for that. Like lean in and find out what's going on and see if you can help her. But each person's responsibility is to bring the best you can back to the relationship. Facts. Because just because you got married doesn't mean you're no longer obligated to take care of yourself, for example. Like nobody said that. So till death to us part, you know, I I totally subscribe to that, and that's part of our vows, and and I mean that. But I also mean till death was part because I'll do everything I need to do until death for us to be in our best. And I think some people look at marriage and think, well, we got married, so therefore I don't have that obligation anymore. I don't have that responsibility anymore. Just let myself go. Yeah, let myself go in. Absolutely. Or I talk about the responsibility of being able to be in tune with your spouse's sexual desires and needs and to be aware of where they are and to actually help them manage it. Like that's your responsibility. There's responsibilities in being married. Yeah. And I think people look past that. And so men want to be desired, women want to be desired, but but then again that desire can come from yourself. It can come from yourself first. Do you see yourself as desirable? And if you don't see yourself as desirable, then work on yourself to be desirable. And then, you know, put yourself out there in front of your spouse and your partner and and see when you start to get those responses. Okay. I have just a couple questions before you run out. Get my haircut. What do you wish women knew about male desire? One is that it's a very personal thing. It's a personal thing coming from him. It's a it's a need. It's a basic need. You know, there's a thing called Laszlo's hierarchy of needs. It's a basic need. Is desire in there? I don't know if it is, but it should be. Because it's a fundamental like I said, it's it is what creates our species' ability to reproduce. Right. I mean, you think about it. Sex and the desire to have sex is why we have seven billion people on the earth. So that need, when your husband has that need, it's a very personal thing and it me and it's very important. It's not just a reaction. It's not just something that they're doing because it's, you know, yeah, I don't anything else to do on board. I want to be intimate. So the first is that appreciate that it's their personal need. And then the second thing is that, you know, treat it with care and honor because it's it's it's who they are as a man. It's something that that they need to do as a man. And by rejecting it and rejecting it in the wrong way. can do real harm. And and like I said, I don't think all men respond well. I'm not saying that men communicate well. I'm not saying that maybe they react well to it. But I can talk on behalf of every man out there that says, you know, that that I know that those desires are very personal and they're things that men I hate to say it this way because sex is such a such a weird topic. Because on one hand it's beautiful, it's passionate, it's intimate, and then the other hand it's biological. It's a you know, I mean it's it's a bodily, you know, it's it's it's a physical act. And somewhere between the emotion and all of the beauty and the the passion and the fire and the physical act is where most relationships are today. And being able to understand that there is a the physical need, the act is very alive and very real. But how do as a couple do you move it to the passionate end of that spectrum? How do you move it to the side where there's real emotion to it, there's real connection to it? And I believe That will be from the wife and the husband. It's not a one party thing. I think when both sides appreciate the other's sexuality, the way they see each other, they fan the flames to each other about how how they view each other, and most importantly, they stay in tune to their sexual sexual energy. I think that then it moves to the passionate side versus the physical act. And my prediction is that probably most relationships die. the last part. Of the intimacy completely dying is it becomes a physical act. Yeah. It goes from the first date, honeymoon, early days. My old coach told me one time, he which was funny because it's not true. But he said, Keith, when you get married, the first year of marriage, if you put a jelly bean in a jar every time you had sex, and then you get to the second year of marriage until the end, you'll never get every jelly bean out of that jar. And I thought, that's crazy. You have more sex the first year than the entire marriage. And he told me that in serious. He was dead serious. But that means that you that passion that you had early just goes away later. And that's why you don't get all the jelly beans out of the jar. So so the Do we have jelly we No, we would not have jelly. We have no jelly beans a babe. Our jelly beans were gone the second year. All the first year jelly beans were gone the second year. So but no, my point is that that's a that's an indicator that the passion is there in that first year. Well, where'd it go? Where'd it go? And so if you start feeling like it's an act. If you start feeling like it's a obligation, you start feeling like it's just a a function, which is that last thing at the very end of that's end of the spectrum, that's not a place you wanna be. And that's why I said you gotta move it back to the passionate side. So my my advice to women would be to understand where the w man's desire comes from, understand who they are and and why they're doing it and appreciate and honor the fact that they're pursuing you. And how do you respond To not just make it an act like, okay, babe, I'm ready to do it. Let's just do it. But how do you turn it into something more so that he then can still have his desire fulfilled, but that you participate in a way that puts the energy to it and that keeps it passionate, just like you did when you were dating. Right. What would you say to a woman whose husband has stopped initiating? Be nervous, be worried. Yikes. Be worried. No, be worried. first of all, why would you want to be in a relationship like that? Like, man, I I the the the Well, he's stopped initiating because no, I understand. I'm saying very specifically, like women should not be okay with that. That should not be okay. Like it What does she do about it? She should dig into it. She should lean into it. I think the the number one thing is to understand why. And and and I can man, I can see in my mind's eye, you know, a guy sitting on the couch watching football and the and the wife comes in to make a pass at him or decides to flirt with him. And he's like, nah, babe, I'm watching the game. And then the woman's like, see, he he's an asshole. See, he's into football. And again, in the moment, if you deal with a problem in the moment like that, you're missing the problem. When the husband's no longer making passes, first of all, ask yourself, was he? So in other words, did you create this problem? Right? It's not just that he just stopped one day. You told him no a hundred times and he learned how to live without sex with So think back when was he initiating? Yes, was he ever initiating? What changed? What changed? What changed? Was it you? Were you rejecting him? Did you have kids? Odds are nine out of ten times we had children and then it was about being a mom and the kids are in the bed and there's all these responsibilities and I'm exhausted? That's the answer. Let's just be real. Like you're trying to solve this problem, there it is. Right. You don't just make that an excuse. Even if it's right valid. The difference between an answer and an excuse is whether the answer fixed the problem. An excuse is when you know the answer and that you didn't fix the problem. You just use it as the reason why you didn't solve the problem. So when you find the answer, make the change. Go back to those days. Figure out why. Figure out what happened, what changed. Maybe it's even in him. Go back and think about what was the things in him. And and and it's never an accusatory position to take. Because like I said, men have to have conquest. Men have to have that intimacy. Men have to have that pursuit. And if he's no longer pursuing, then one of two things I'll go out on a limb and say this. He's either emasculated himself, meaning I'm just not worthy, and I live without it, meaning he probably fantasies, you know, and Manages himself. Yeah, manages himself. Maybe he's looking at porn, whatever. But it's manifested itself into a quiet release and and it's no longer like an outward thing for him. Yeah. Or worse, he's outside the marriage. Right. Because I I just fundamentally don't think that men are wired to just be asexual. I'm sure that happens. It's hormonal and and I and I know that that can happen from time to time. But majority of men, there's something else at play in there and the woman should try and figure out what that is through communication, not through accusation. Yes. And not through springing, like jumping on him and I I'm I'm here. Like don't try and fix it in one time. It didn't break in one time. He didn't stop pursuing in one time. So don't try and fix it on the couch while he's watching football. Not the time. So learn how to reconnect with him and learn how to figure out what's going on in him. Well and like you just said, and patient in getting it back because I'm sure it took A long time for it to fade. Mm-hmm. It's gonna probably take a long time to get it back. The question is, does it matter to you? Is it important to you? If the answer is yes, then you're gonna do the work. If it's not, well there you go. Yeah. I mean that that that's a whole separate probably episode is when it doesn't matter to you anymore. Well No, I'm just That's not what this podcast is for. I don't speak to those. But that's what I'm saying. The the answer that though anybody comes to is yes, it matters to me and I want to fix this and how do I fix it? And you know, I heard Jess and Keith talk and I'm gonna s try and reconnect. I'm gonna try and figure out why I'm gonna go back and look at all this stuff because it matters to me to fix. My point is the only real alternative is it doesn't matter to me anymore. I'm okay with this arrangement, I'm okay with this. And that's a whole separate separate problem. Yeah. I'm not gonna do a podcast on that. I'm not gonna be on that podcast. Okay, well there we go. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. Yeah. You're gonna take some cold medicine and some day quail and get my hair cut. All right. Thanks for taking the time to join us on this podcast episode. You can find more episodes of Behind Every Great Man on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 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