Latest / The People Run Podcast / #59 Why Running Never Leaves You | Deena Kastor

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#59 Why Running Never Leaves You | Deena Kastor · The People Run Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: You've done pretty much everything there is to do running.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Olympic metal, uh records, uh majors, uh and you're still out there running.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you at with running today?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest is none other than Dean the Castor.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is gonna be a blast.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh jumping right in, you've done pretty much everything there is to do running.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Olympic medal, uh records, uh majors, uh, and you're still out there running.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you at with running today?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thanks, Spitz.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's so fun to be on the podcast with you.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm fortunate that I still love this sport so much and can take part in it.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've um I feel like I've been relatively healthy my entire running career and so don't have any aches and pains.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can go out and and enjoy running for what it's worth.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: And although my schedule isn't very organized, we do have Mammoth Track Club has team practices on Tuesday mornings with the general membership.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: So a bunch of um of people that live in town of various abilities.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I go to go to that practice on Tuesday mornings to get in some speed work.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: But like just this morning, not having a tight time schedule.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was my first day of not having a tight time schedule in the last couple of weeks.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I just kind of went out without my watch and just climbed every hill I could see and um and watched the wildflowers and stopped and looked at a waterfall.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I still like to push myself and like get in a good, a good hard effort.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was out for probably an hour and 20 minutes this morning on my run.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, then it had a lot of elevation gain.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I just I just love it.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I have no um no real races on the schedule, but I am using running to get fit to hike part of the John Muir Trail this summer.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be out on the John Muir Trail.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's really our backyard here in Mammoth Lakes, California.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be out on the trail with Michelle Hamilton, who's the co-author of my book.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she did the John Muir Trail last summer and she missed a little section of it.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna do that section with her this um this August.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have permits to summit Mount Whitney afterwards.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so things that get me a little scared, um, things that I haven't done yet, but running is a really great way to get fit for that enduring effort that that will be hiking for seven days straight and then um and then doing some weightlifting also to be able to be strong on some of the climbs and descents that will be faced on the trail.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's exciting and explains the hills.
• 2:55
  unknown: Yeah.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Mount Wendy is uh no joke.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've have a few friends who've done it and they've shared stories.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's um yeah, I've been taking all the information I can about it.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have any to pass on to me, I welcome it.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'll gather them all together, like, hey, here's a high-level overview.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's a near away.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Give me some bullet points, absolutely.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Dina, how's your relationship with running now versus when you were chasing Olympic teams and and times?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I you know, I think every every relationship um um deserves some reassessing.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And my relationship with running has changed so much um over the years.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Even during my career, I was questioning like what will get me out of bed chasing these goals.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, at one point I had to swallow that hard pill that said, like, I am no longer gonna get any faster.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I could still get out there and and make a make an honest effort at winning races.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then once that started uh slipping away from me as the um as aging continued, um, I still just really like the effort.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: I like getting out there and having time in my head.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I think um in my book, Let Your Mind Run, it's all about like just creating this healthy space above your shoulders.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and I really value that time.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love getting outside, not just running for the physical benefits of feeling fit at the age of 53, but also the the mental fitness, the mental health that I get by getting out there.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And every day could be something different that I'm mulling over, something different that I'm troubleshooting.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe I'm just going out to be in awe of my surroundings, but whatever it is, running just always provides that that space, that quiet time to be able to think through whatever, whatever's taking my attention on any given day.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I really do value that time in my head.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um and running is also very social.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So on Tuesday mornings when I'm meeting with the club, it's a lot about like pep talks and and getting people excited to get in the next interval.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so that part of it has always been very alive and well for me as is as as much as that quiet time.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's equally social and um and it gives me that solitude.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a great balance that time in my running shoes.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's is that what keeps you pulling back the environment, the team, and also the mindset, like the clarity now?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like every day um offers something, something new, and I discover uh something new about myself, a strength or a weakness that's revealed um in that time that I'm out there running.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and then some days aren't that aren't that deep, and I'm just like pinching myself that I've made life decisions to to land me in the mountains.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And um I I've recently just been exploring new places, and I am just in shock that I could live in this this town for 25 years and still find these new places to explore.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: I took a little a little detour today on a on a trail that I that I typically run on, but they were doing some um some fire mitigation and they were felling trees.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: The Forest Service was felling trees in this one area, so I couldn't do the loop I wanted.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so I turned around and I found this other trail to run on, and it it it I kind of lost the trail for a little bit, but all of a sudden it opened up to this amazing view overlooking town.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, I can't believe I have never been to this spot.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I I thought I had covered every bit of territory within the town proper, but it it just makes me giddy that I can still find new pockets that I that I haven't yet explored.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I always love when you're running in your and you just find like a new lake or like a new view, and you're just like, okay, this is a new loop.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or when you could figure out how to connect two separate runs, like you realize that they connect at some point, and that that also really, really makes my day.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed, same here.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Dino, what have you learned that you appreciate more now in running than maybe in the past?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I just really appreciate my um my body handling it.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I really and I think it's I I really when I look back at as to why, because I do have friends that are similar age than me that can that I competed with who can no longer run or don't run um as as often because they need a few days off after they they put in a run.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think it's from years of of really um prioritizing rest and recovery as much as the training itself.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: I have always valued that.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: I value sleep, massage therapy, stretching, um, and just eating really good food, staying hydrated.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think taking care of myself for so many years that my my body just continues to allow me to get out and um and sometimes punish it a little bit with some with some hard efforts.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I but I but I also am just so um so thankful that it's that that I've held up for so many miles.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was always a very high mileage runner.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so it's just amazes me.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the first question people ask um when I'm talking to them is like, how are your knees?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Why are why how are your knees still holding up after all this time?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm knocking on my desk as I say that because it's made of wood.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um knocking on my desk.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: My knees have been fine, and and I I still can get out and and enjoy the the run for for what it is to me without having to fight through aches and pains.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I I feel I feel ever grateful for that continued um that continued avenue that running has given me.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: That makes me curious.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: If I want to run another 20, 30 years personally, you you kind of give a few tips there, like take care of the body, eat well.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: What do you attribute your ability to run even now to this day?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure you could still go out there and run a marathon if you wanted to.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think I will say, I mean, it's taking care of your body and emphasizing rest and recovery, but it's also continuing to discover the joyful part of it to just always I think sometimes we get so caught up in like what our watch is saying, and we want to see progress because it's exciting, but sometimes progress isn't isn't isn't continuous, right?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's there's some point where where we're not gonna progress.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I think always returning to the joy that that running is, and that could be different for everyone.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it's exploring new trails.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've already alluded to that.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if I am feeling like plateaued at all emotionally in my running, I get out and and find a new trailhead or some new neighborhood to run through because that sense of exploration is definitely the root of my running joy.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: When would you say is best to because I I like what I'm hearing about like enjoying the run, like when should I back off?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, I'm I'm I have a goal, but like maybe the body's just not receptive right now.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think I think you really have to listen to your body because sometimes we we need to run through the fatigue because that's how we adapt and and compensate to be stronger.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: But fatigue is different if it's low iron and uh and you actually have to have to back off and and start attending to nutritional needs of getting that that iron in through through dietary means.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then sometimes it's like an ache or a pain, but it's just it's just a workload and you've got to get through that, but not if it's an injury.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it just takes a lot of finesse to realize um what is par for the course and um our bodies growing and adapting, um, and then what is limiting factor.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if it is injury that that is that you're on the brink of, it's really important not just to back off and tend to that injury, but really find the root of that injury, where that imbalance is.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you're maybe something needs to be stretched out better.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times when people have um desk jobs, their hip flexors are really tight, and so it causes Achilles problems.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so really looking up your chain and your um and looking at your habits to see where you might be, um where you might need to give a little bit more attention.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Running seems like it's bigger than ever.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Correct me if I'm wrong.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: I feel the same way.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: What are you seeing out there nowadays in this big running boom we're in?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I think we're I think we're in this this running boom for for a lot of reasons, but I think one of the main reasons is that years ago, we were told that running's good for your physical health, your cardiovascular health.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like um heart disease is one of the number one killers for for men and women um globally.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so running's just good for your cardiovascular health.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what people are finding is that it is really um just on a daily basis, really good for their mental health.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so people are are enjoying that journey, that sense of um being good for your physical and your mental health, but then also being a part of this really supportive community of people, running clubs that are popping up in cities across the across the country, and um, and then being on a starting line with 55,000 people who may not look like you or act like you or run the same pace as you, but for some reason there's that kinship of of going the distance together.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's really beautiful that people have are finding the sport at various ages and and abilities, and and that we have more diversity in the sport um than ever before, which is also really important to be able to see yourself in someone to know that you could also do it.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I think it's important to have have a variety of people out there walking the walk, running the run, so that they could recruit other people and make a safe space for them to recreate as well.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: What excites you the most right now?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: What excites me the most?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think what excites me is kind of the shoe evolution and seeing that it's really breaking down the limits that we thought um humans had on their potential.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it's been really exciting to see with this tweak in technology from the foam technology to the carbon plates, seeing that longer training cycles, more mileage, less breakdown and fatigue at the end of a at the end of a marathon is is really really having a compound effect on on training cycles.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I'm interested to see where that slows down, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like when we're gonna stop seeing such exponential progress in our sport.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but right now it's really exciting and it doesn't seem like anyone's slowing down anytime soon.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, the quite opposite.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's a new shoe every week.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know, and then some of these like more trail, trail-driven shoes.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've been I've run for ASICs for 25 years, and they just did a release of their of their gel trabuco um like um a little tease on social media.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I had friends texting me, like, how do we get a pair of these shoes?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't even know how to get a pair of these shoes.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Really, really cool.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think trail, trail shoes, and even the the ultra trail, um um, the whole genre is having having a moment in and of itself.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: People have already run their marathons and checked that off their list, maybe even done all of the Abbott World Marathon majors and and they want a new a new thrill to chase, and and it seems like people are finding that in the trail running world right now, too.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very exciting.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, we just had what western states and a whole bunch of changes in western states.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the field completely changed.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was so exciting to to watch those races.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're we're recording today, and and it was just this weekend that that Western States was contested, so super exciting.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had to pretend to work.
• 16:16
  unknown: Yeah.
• 16:18
  unknown: Yeah.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Talking about the majors, you just mentioned we got two new majors now between Sydney and Cape Town was just announced.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like um the sport, we just said it is growing.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you feel about these majors?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you wish you could run some.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we're gonna see more.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: It looks like maybe China soon.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, hopefully China checks off the boxes.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's like for for those of us who have already done them, it's really exciting to travel to new places and and experience the the culture through the marathon.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's also and make a vacation out of it afterwards.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was on a text thread with some people that were in Cape Town and stayed for two and a half weeks so they can get in their safari and their wine country tours and um and see the penguins.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was really, really exciting that they're really taking advantage of the opportunity of going to these places and making an economic impact on them.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: But on the other side of it, it's so important for the people of Cape Town to have accessibility to a marathon.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's important for people in in China to have accessibility of a high-quality marathon.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so, so while it's it's growing and it's really fun to have a new tourist destination, it's equally, in my mind, important to have these um these communities have accessibility to to running a high-profile race.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you, and I feel like what I'm about to say may not be proven for a few years, but I am very excited to see what comes out of those races.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Meaning, like, we're in America, we have a lot of local races.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can just go sign up, take a local trip, if you will, or a quick flight.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now they have a race with elites in their hometown and city, so I feel like that might bring some new elites and people to the sport that can run at home, you know?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: You see the the kids on the sidelines holding up signs, and all it takes is a smile from a speedy professional runner passing by, or a wink, or um, or even hearing them on television be thankful for the crowds, and you were in that crowd for a kid to be inspired to pick up a pair of running shoes and and put some miles on their own legs.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it is beautiful.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: In the United States, we have marathons in every single state.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um we have we have that accessibility, but a lot of other countries don't have that.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that to me is one of the most important aspects of the Abbott World Marathon majors growing in the way that they are.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: What did it mean to you when you finished your initial six?
• 19:01
  unknown: Yeah.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was it was more meaningful than I thought it would be.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I, you know, it's another marathon, training for another marathon.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was the Berlin Marathon.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: I had run the Berlin half years prior, but never ran the Berlin Marathon.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was really excited to um my goal going into the race was to run hard enough to be proud of the effort, but easy enough to really enjoy it.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was like kind of riding that, riding that line.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I feel like I did a good job at riding that line.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: But at the finish line, I got my Berlin Marathon medal.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I got the six-star medal, I was thinking of that whole journey of getting in those races and how much I had grown.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like every marathon medal kind of tells a story.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just a story of completing 26.2 miles, it's like that buildup and a story of how you grew as a person.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: It like weaves its way into the fabric of who you are.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really surprising that when you look at the six-star journey, just how exponentially I grew as a person from that first marathon in 2001 in New York City to getting my um my six-star in Berlin.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was like a whole different human being with a whole like a packed career into that and a family now to share that with.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was really a beautiful experience.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's so true.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've only done two now so far, and I keep thinking about that, the journey it took for all of them and what it's gonna take for the next few, and who I have to become to do the next few.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's hard enough to even get into them.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um to get what the hell have you done so far?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, as a New Yorker, I told myself I have to do New York first before I knew what it entailed, but I waited two years.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: So New York was the first one.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: I did Chicago the following year.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we'll see what spring, spring.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in a few lotteries, we'll see what happens.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you've got two really good ones off your off your bucket list so far.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, I still want to go back to New York as redemption and also because it's home, but uh yeah, there's two so far.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to the next few.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Dina, you mentioned uh what running gave you through this journey, um, but you've you also had this very illustrious and big longtime running career.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I this is probably gonna be hard to answer, but what has running given you so far?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um It's definitely given me a community.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like um like the relationships I have with other runners, with race directors, with um with staff at a lot of the races that I get to see year in and year out, like really good connections with them and people that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I that I value and would do anything for.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I really feel feel like that's the most important thing.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like you forget about the times you ran and the place that you got in a lot of instances.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: But those relationships remain forever.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can't, there's there were so many races when I was writing my book that I would, I was um writing, like I didn't remember like what my time was, but I remember the dinner that we had together the night after the race and how much fun it was, and like renting out the back room of a restaurant in in um in Boston to have a good Italian meal the night after the Olympic trials um in the marathon in 2008, but I could not remember my time.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um and I had to like go back to to um results and media to tock that documented.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like all these little gaps.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, Michelle was like, um, my co-author was like, you can't end every race with this amazing meal that I remembered every detail of, like what I ate.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was the Aroncini sitting in a in a in a bath of of housemade marinara sauce with some fresh basil.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, you can't end it.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta pick, you gotta pick one story, one story that you like, and you could end with that meal.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, so I chose Athens um after the Olympic marathon because it was such a beautiful meal tucked into this Greek restaurant in this alleyway, um, and we dined throughout the entire night.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was the meal I chose to share.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I feel like every one of those stories has a has a memorable meal um shared with family and friends and um and teammates that were at the race with me.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's funny.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like for someone at your level as a runner, we all talk about food.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Food is everything.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect balance, right?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're exerting energy and then you're putting more energy in.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it just makes sense.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that as well.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oftentimes, you know, now since running so big, we're talking about times.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: How can I hit this number, that number?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point, I remember my last marathon, and what I remember is eating this pasta in this weird spot in Indiana with my friends here.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't remember mile 15, 16, nothing of it.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I do remember that dinner and why we chose it and how it happened.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, yeah.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and a and a good meal will do that for you.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also like sharing that experience.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you were there eating the meal by yourself, it might not have tasted so good or been as memorable as as sharing with sharing that time with with friends.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's a great takeaway of like being president, you know, enjoy the marathon, yeah, for sure.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Or whatever distance that is, but like the moments is is what matters for sure.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think running changes people?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've played other sports.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: I see we all watch sports, I'm sure.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: But something about running always someone has a story.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Why does running change people so much?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, um, so I'm I'm like obsessed with the World Cup right now.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've been watching every game, and right before, right before recording, um Germany was playing Paraguay, and they one of them had to win in order to move on.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so it went into double overtime, and then it went into um a shootout, and then it went into sudden death, and I was like so invested in it.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: But to get to your to get to your question on why running gives more than the World Cup would, um because we get we get control over putting ourselves in a place of challenge in running.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like we get to decide how hard we want to push at any given time.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And when we do that and then simultaneously find a way to continue going, it tells us a lot about our our individual strengths.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we could lean into resiliency and grit and determination and goal setting and all these other character traits that we work on in our running shoes.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: But we get to do it, we get to decide that.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And in life, you don't want to add challenge so that you can prove you're strong enough to overcome it.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: But running gives that to us, gives us that privilege of of challenging ourselves and and finding what it takes to overcome and override and endure through that.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, once we do that, we can be really proud of that character trait that we developed, but then also make sure we know it's available outside of running, right?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like if we if we can be gritty and resilient in in a marathon, we can also be gritty and resilient and use those same character traits in life when when we need to rely on them.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it just gives us an arsenal of strength.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Running gives us that arsenal of strength that we can bring into our everyday lives.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely uh some lessons that we all take.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Dina, in this running space, right, is it can be very individual, but like community is also everything.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: How does someone find that community and and like engage in that community and make it bigger than the competition?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I've always encouraged people to find a team or a group to run with, even if it's just once a week and and it's after work and you're you're meeting at the local running store to to log a few miles with with other people.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think it gets us out of our heads and being so insular and self-driven that we realize there is a greater community and there are other ways to um to go about what we're doing because everyone shares their stories and you realize your way isn't the only way.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you might dabble in another strategy or tactic that makes you better.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: You might be with a with a stronger pace group that kind of pushes you a little more.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you're with us um uh a slower paced group and it allows you to recover for the next day better.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you just learn a lot about yourself when you're with other people.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's really important to to create that community and and fit it in, find a way to fit that into your your everyday life.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't have time for some of these group meetups, maybe there's maybe there's someone that could meet before work on on any given day to to share the miles with.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I think sharing those miles is so rewarding.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be remiss if I didn't ask this.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: I saw this post of yours.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: You have a quote board in your house.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: How does that change over time?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: That quote board.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know what?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: It it's seasonal.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes if it's the change of the seasons, it'll it'll be something about summer, but always it's always comes from a space of optimism.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I just love I just love finding a good quote.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's a song lyric, sometimes it's from a book that I just read.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sometimes it's just having a conversation with someone and and and pulling their words um and putting them on the board.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I just I love there's so many inspiring people out there.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we we may think we're alone if we're trying to troubleshoot something.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: We may think we're alone in our experiences, but if you just Google what you're going through and uh um and uh and ask for a quote about it, there's like a hundred brilliant people from history, from from time that have summed it up just perfectly.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I really rely on the wisdom of of people in the past to bring some some um some wise words to uh to our chalkboard.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Where'd that idea come from to hang up a board and do that?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, I I think just because I wrote down, I would write down quotes in a in a notebook.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was actually in my gratitude journal, but I also had had inspirational quotes in there.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I decided that it would be better to share them with other people than just keep them in this book.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so wanting to get a um a chalkboard, I actually got a really inexpensive chalkboard, a large inexpensive chalkboard on um on eBay.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then I took it here locally in Mammoth to get it professionally framed, and it's now a running joke in our family because it's got to be the world's most expensive chalkboard at this point because of the beautiful framing job that um that Joel the artist did uh around it.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: So um so it went from a very inexpensive idea to a very grand one.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh all in all, it shares some really good um some encouraging advice and enlightening words to family and guests that get to see it.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: Talking about encouraging words, um your book, Let Your Mind Run, helped a lot of people.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: What was your biggest lesson in writing that book?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you know, I I think the it was the hardest thing that I've ever done.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so it was rewarding in the end.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: I cried a lot through the process because I just kept wanting to give up um on the project.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think I wanted so badly to um to make Coach Vill seem like the saint that he was.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted people to adore him more than any other character in the book, including myself, um, because he was he had such an impact on my life.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, with all that I learned from him and all the growth that I had in such a short amount of time with being with him, I really wanted to share that with as many people as possible so that other people could could find value in in what he shared.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and the the best way I could share that was through writing the book.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and you do need to show that growth and how naive I was when um before I got to him.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so it was it was a it was a very self-reflective.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I got hypnotized to see if being if being adopted had any any undercurrents of my striving.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: I um I spent every mile that I ran, I spent thinking through a a race or a moment that I was in, reflecting on talent.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would come home and look through journals, and it was just like immersive, like all day, every day, just immersed in trying to get this story out in an authentic way.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was it was a painful process, but I I I guess with all painful processes, it ends up being rewarding if you could see yourself to the finish line.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds really immersive, just thinking you're running, you got a long run, you're thinking about a book.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, I need a copy of this idea.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wait, I'm on my long run.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: I got other stuff to do, I'm sure.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it was, and it was three years of that.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like three years of just like intensely unpacking my entire life.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it started with once I decided to do this project with Michelle, I immediately went down to my parents' house in Southern California where they kept every scrap.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like anytime I was mentioned in the newspaper, they would cut it out and tape it into this, into these books.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I would tell them years and years and years.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, just throw it away.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's just color.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we don't need to see that.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was so thankful in writing because I grabbed all those boxes of scraps and books, and and our guest room was just ended up being this um, this almost like a library where I sectioned, sectioned everything in chronological order so I can rely on um, I I tried to rely on my memory, but I learned that my memory isn't perfect.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was using the um those articles to to really make sure I was authentically replicating who I was in the time, not who I am now and what I would think if I went through that loss now with a more mature outlook.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so it was it was it was a fascinating process.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: What did it feel like when you finally, after three years, turned that in?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, here you go.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: I cried.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: I could not wait to get it off of my hands.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: And in the final, the final half hour before my deadline, I was writing the prologue of the book.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the very beginning of the book.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I cried then, like, how could I have been working on this for three years and I'm at the beginning?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm just at the beginning.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was just, it was, it was so um taxing um and draining, but I would encourage everybody to to journal and write in real time because you never know when you might need that information.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Would you ever write another book?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh I think I I've thought about it.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have a couple of options of writing more of like a workbook with then some anecdotal stories um in between that are usually like questions people have when I open up um if I'm a keynote speaker and then open it up to questions, I've been cataloging those questions that I that I receive.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I could do a book like that, but I also have dabbled in doing a cookbook, but it's it's a weird cookbook because it's all about cooking with intention and and like kind of feeding, feeding your friends and family at the table, like feeding them that intention through food.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so it there is more and more science coming out on that.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so I would I would need the backing of science in order to get that project.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's a a book that inspired it that I read in college.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Like Water for Chocolate, and it um and it takes place in um in Mexico, and the girl, the girl who's cooking in the kitchen um is like can't have the love of her life, and so she's sobbing, but she's cooking while she's sobbing, and um, and then everybody sits down to to eat and everybody starts getting emotional and everybody else starts crying.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I toyed with that even back in college, like making sure that when I'm cooking, that I like don't bring garbage, uh like a um garbage in my head.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't come into the kitchen.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I make sure that my intention to feed and refuel and love and nurture the people at the table are at the forefront of my thoughts when I'm preparing dinner and so that they can feel that that love and dedication from me when they sit down to eat.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm curious about the science now.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, like it literally changes the frequency of the food, like the vibration and the energy of the food that you're eating.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so it it's very, it's very important.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, taking a little bit back to running, you're still running today.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what would you tell someone who think, oh, my best days are behind me or like my knee, you know, you hear it all the time.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I don't know, but you're out here still running.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: We just talked about you going to Mount Whitney, um, you're still facing big challenges.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: What would you tell that person?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, like if you don't like it anymore, then don't do it.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I think a lot of times if we're in an injury cycle, it becomes unenjoyable.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so we don't like running because we have to like, we have to struggle through it and everything hurts.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so if like, do you really not like it?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or or is this an opportunity to really create a sharper mind and and a and a more um a sound mind and a sound body?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and so I would just encourage people to to take a look at their relationship with running, and it can change, it should change um over time, but but it could be the best, it could be the best miles of your life, right?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it sometimes we get so caught up in our watches and progress, but if we can get caught up in looking at our surroundings and uh and that sense of discovery of of strengths we never knew lie lie within us.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, those are those are real big life changes.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: And if you if you quit on the sport because you're not running personal bests anymore, you're missing out on all these other gifts that running could give you.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of gifts would you say?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because I you touched on that earlier.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you had a shift where you had to go, hey, look, maybe I'm not running my fastest, but you still have that joy and love.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: We can see it.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: We see it in the post.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: I can feel it now talking through this.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think because whatever you ask of running, it it gives it back to you, right?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I could, I could go out the door just um just to squeeze in a run before sitting on a flight for 10 hours.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe it's only 20 minutes, but I but I run around the block a few times and I and I come in and I feel that sense of reward.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's the endorphins and oxytocin and serotonin that I was able to pump my body with just briefly, just in that one little, that one little hit of running.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it could also just be like dealing with grief or sorrow or frustration and getting out the door.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time I come back in, that grief and sorrow has been resolved or or the problem doesn't feel as big, um, or it's been solved.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's just like there's so much to unpack in that space.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: But the reason that the reason that it's always worth getting out is because you're troubleshooting or thinking through something with a sounder mind because you have oxygen and and better hormones running through your body so you can get to a better resolution.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you're just sitting on the couch with a tub of ice cream and you're moping and you're trying to get through it, your body's producing cortisol.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so you you don't have, you don't have the best chemistry to be able to troubleshoot.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: So getting out and running with that is um is the healthiest way to to unpack a problem.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so it just always provides.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you're, or if it's just like fitness you want to build, you go out for a little longer than you did last week and and you're building fitness.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so it gives you that.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: So no matter how shallow or deep um your time in your running shoes, it gives you, it gives you the feedback that you need each and every single time.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: So the quote, we also have a I also have a chalkboard wall in our mud room where we enter.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: And for a long time, um, it just simply said, it's always worth it.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's just always worth getting out that door.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: And our running shoes sat right below those, right below those words.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: And just it just, you know, that I could think of reasons to stay in bed on a cold day, and uh, although that sounds really nice right now as we're in the middle of the summer heat, stay in bed on a cold, cold morning instead of going out and going for a run.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: But if you get up and go out for a run, it's invigorating and it's always worth it.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so it just ended up being my my refrain for a while.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, wow, even after all these years, it's always worth getting out the door.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything new you're still hoping to experience with running?
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the the the part that I really love right now is is going longer, is like having having the time to go longer and explore.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: We I live in a beautiful place to be able to get on the John Muir and Pacific Crest trails.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And although I don't want to trail race, I really love running on the trails, like running to a lake and not really knowing exactly how much time I'm gonna need to do it because I don't know the technicality of the of the trailhead, but getting in my little belt bag, having a sandwich and some and some um sugary snacks and and have my water bottle and my water sterilizer and just going out and sitting by that lake and eating that sandwich and then making my way back.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just love that um I love going long and and being able to see see more into the backcountry.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: It makes it makes me feel not just in awe, but really privileged to to have that space to go somewhere that not many people can go on a daily basis.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: They can't just get there in their car, like it's just such a privilege to have your own your own body carry you to this majestic um majestic surroundings and and to take it in, take in that appreciation of of your capability, but then also like the land that that we live upon is so stunning.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Especially the body carrying you.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um we can hop in our car all day, but it's definitely earned and different when you're out there and you take that breath 20, 30 miles in later.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they and and that moment, nobody nobody can ever experience that but you, like when a squirrel scurries across the trail or um or the sun is setting in a certain way, like that never happens again.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: And to be able to capture that moment is is um is never lost on me when I'm out there.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always just in awe um of of where I am and what I get to see when I'm when I'm out there running.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: Dina, when you look at all the running you've done, awards, medals, uh, and even to this day in the community, I see you a lot of races.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: What do you hope people remember beyond the medals and awards?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, ooh.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just think kindness, like we all just have to be kind to one another, um, give people chances and um and just just always be there to to listen or to help.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um in a in a world where um where we can be anything, being kind is the most important.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: Dina, thank you.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love this.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: This has been an amazing conversation.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you coming onto the podcast and and and speaking.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: This has been amazingly fun.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's been fun for me too, Fitz, and I hope to see you at a race soon.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, for sure.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: We got a few, so we'll we'll talk about that.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you everyone for listening.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: This has been the People Run podcast.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.