Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Ep 154: The Power of Content Marketing to Grow Your Business

Transcript

Ep 154: The Power of Content Marketing to Grow Your Business · Mortgage Marketing Radio

• 0:00
  In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
• 0:04
  real estate agents is essential for success.
• 0:06
  However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
• 0:11
  With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents,
• 0:15
  it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
• 0:20
  Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
• 0:25
  This has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
• 0:31
  And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
• 0:35
  with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
• 0:39
  To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
• 0:45
  of the case study today.
• 0:47
  You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
• 0:52
  in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too.
• 0:56
  Don't miss out.
• 0:57
  Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
• 1:17
  Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio.
• 1:19
  And brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute, your number one source for truth
• 1:24
  in Mortgage Marketing.
• 1:25
  Hey, listeners, what's up?
• 1:28
  This is Jeff Zimphur.
• 1:29
  Welcome to this episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio.
• 1:31
  We are here live in Las Vegas recording a podcast with none other than Neil Dingert.
• 1:37
  Neil, what is up, my man?
• 1:38
  Thanks, Jeff.
• 1:39
  Nice meeting you, man.
• 1:40
  You too.
• 1:41
  So, let's get into this week's show.
• 1:43
  So, Jeff, you've been doing a podcast for how long now?
• 1:47
  Well, 2020 will be the start of my fifth year.
• 1:50
  Okay.
• 1:51
  Wow.
• 1:52
  I didn't know it was that long.
• 1:53
  I just, I just discovered you in the last probably six months and started listening
• 1:56
  and you put out a ton of value.
• 1:58
  So, I really appreciate what you're doing for the Mortgage and Real Estate Industry.
• 2:01
  Yeah.
• 2:02
  Thank you, man.
• 2:03
  As you know, it's a labor of love, right?
• 2:04
  It's not easy.
• 2:05
  Yeah.
• 2:06
  I actually, my first podcast was January 2016, so, you know, here we are, you know, December
• 2:12
  of 2019.
• 2:13
  It was a four year run there and was a slow ramp up, you know, I'm surpassing 150 episodes
• 2:19
  now.
• 2:20
  So, I'm doing a one a week.
• 2:21
  It didn't start like that, but now I've got the consistency in place and just enjoy
• 2:26
  the heck out of meeting people and learning so much from them.
• 2:29
  Yeah.
• 2:30
  And just for the people that don't know, like your background is in Mortgage, right?
• 2:34
  Yeah.
• 2:35
  So, for 10 years, that was a Mortgage Regenator in Southern California, Orange County,
• 2:39
  did pretty well down there.
• 2:41
  And, you know, it's funny.
• 2:42
  You get in this industry and as you've heard other people say before, you kind of fall in
• 2:45
  love with it and you can't get out, even stuck in the print here, you've not tried to
• 2:51
  get out a couple of times.
• 2:52
  I've always had a passion for this industry.
• 2:54
  It's a very entrepreneurial industry.
• 2:56
  Yeah.
• 2:57
  It's very sales oriented.
• 2:58
  So I really like it a lot and I think I've learned a lot, you know, through it and personal
• 3:03
  growth and marketing wise as well and why I do what I do is because I love the industry,
• 3:08
  and I'm just trying to give back and help people navigate the path that I've been on and
• 3:11
  then share what I've learned by working with a lot of other people.
• 3:14
  Yeah.
• 3:15
  It's interesting you say that because I noticed when I didn't think I would like the coaching
• 3:21
  or the teaching aspect of it, because I'm just in production, you know, so I've been
• 3:25
  running my own team.
• 3:26
  And then when we started putting out content, it wasn't with the goal really just, it
• 3:31
  was just to build more awareness essentially for my team, my brand and all that stuff.
• 3:35
  But then I kind of got into helping the other originators and the real estate agents in
• 3:39
  our community and then in the region.
• 3:41
  Yeah.
• 3:42
  And like when you help those people, they reach out to you and they're like asking for advice
• 3:45
  and, and you know, it's all free at this point, right?
• 3:48
  So you're giving advice and then when they actually implement it and they say, oh, that's
• 3:51
  awesome.
• 3:52
  It actually worked or thanks so much, it helps like that actually is almost to me like a
• 3:57
  sale now.
• 3:58
  Yeah.
• 3:59
  Like, you know, like you got that big account or you got that deal done or just getting
• 4:03
  that feedback of like, oh, you helped me with my business or you know, so I just kind
• 4:06
  of stumbled into that part, but you've already been doing that for years.
• 4:09
  So I want to ask you then about your kind of path.
• 4:12
  Tell us, tell me about when you started in mortgages.
• 4:15
  So I started in 2003 right out of college.
• 4:18
  Same year I did, man.
• 4:19
  All right.
• 4:20
  That's great.
• 4:21
  So I started and in Reno, graduate college was working at a bank, US bank, and then my
• 4:27
  brother who was doing mortgages in the area, he's like, yeah, you need to come work for
• 4:30
  us.
• 4:31
  We're, you know, we have a broker shop and we want to kill it and there was just a bunch
• 4:35
  of kids.
• 4:36
  You know, it was like a boiler room type environment, you know, real hungry.
• 4:39
  You just get after it.
• 4:40
  Yeah, yeah.
• 4:41
  So that's how I got started and then just wrote it up, you know, through the whole rise
• 4:45
  of the boom, yeah, the boom.
• 4:47
  And then it was the bust and, you know, we went from 30 people down to two, just me and
• 4:51
  my brother and just wrote it out and then wrote it back up again.
• 4:55
  So this is like the second iteration now.
• 4:58
  So what's interesting though is back then, right, 2003 when you and I both started, we
• 5:02
  didn't have Facebook.
• 5:03
  We didn't have social media.
• 5:04
  There was none of that going around.
• 5:07
  Tell me because I heard you, you, you talk about this at the aim event in Vegas here
• 5:13
  just a few months ago where you were one of the people online, basically telling Gary
• 5:17
  your story is that you didn't, did you, did you believe, you know, because all this stuff
• 5:22
  came on on the scene a little bit later, right, the social media and then Gary and we
• 5:26
  started following Gary and he says, create content.
• 5:28
  Did you buy into that right away?
• 5:30
  So what happened with me was I was just the normal guy who wasn't on social just doing
• 5:35
  my thing, yeah, traditional shaking hands, raising babies, you know, uh, chamber of commerce,
• 5:41
  you know, that type of shit.
• 5:43
  So then we're doing male, email, all the stuff, you know, over the years and then just noticing
• 5:49
  that it's working less and less and then noticing that I'm becoming a commodity amongst
• 5:54
  the real estate agents I work with the builders and also with clients.
• 5:57
  And then, you know, them thinking of you as just a service provider, right, like what's
• 6:00
  the rate going to be and we shop it and then I just didn't like that path, right?
• 6:05
  So I started to think like, how can I change the narrative for my own business, right?
• 6:09
  Right.
• 6:10
  So I was doing fine, just doing just fine, but like slowly deteriorating.
• 6:15
  So I want to, you know, I was tell people, like if, if you're going to be put out, but
• 6:18
  if someone's putting you out of business, why not be yourself, right?
• 6:21
  Why not be your future self to put you out of business?
• 6:23
  So what happened was, uh, as the, as the business was kind of flat lining plateau, I just started
• 6:30
  following people on social, I didn't even have an Instagram account until late 2017,
• 6:35
  beginning of 2018.
• 6:36
  Yeah.
• 6:37
  So I wasn't even on, it wasn't even on my radar, right?
• 6:40
  And then I saw these guys doing things and that was kind of early days for mortgage
• 6:43
  people.
• 6:44
  Um, and I noticed then I fell in, uh, you know, just landed on my explore page, Gary's
• 6:49
  content and then a couple of the guys, a couple of the influencer guys in that niche.
• 6:53
  Yeah, yeah.
• 6:54
  And started learning about it.
• 6:55
  Wow.
• 6:56
  So it wasn't even on my, on my spectrum.
• 6:58
  So you're doing a lot of video now, you have a YouTube channel and stuff, you're doing
• 7:01
  a really good job with it.
• 7:02
  Um, you know, this as well as anybody, but I'm just curious about your journey, like how
• 7:06
  easy was it for you to adapt and pivot and start doing video and stuff?
• 7:10
  Did you have resistance?
• 7:12
  Yeah.
• 7:13
  So what I just fell into it.
• 7:14
  So I said, um, I had a guy I knew that was putting on an event in L.A.
• 7:18
  And he sells a marketing event.
• 7:20
  He's like, he should do a video.
• 7:21
  And I'm like, um, why who's going to watch the video?
• 7:24
  Right?
• 7:25
  Right.
• 7:26
  And I don't even know how to do a video.
• 7:27
  Um, so I landed it.
• 7:28
  Just can end up connecting with Eric, who's, uh, my videographer now.
• 7:32
  And, um, we just did a event highlight video, like sort of like vlog style, um, I do
• 7:38
  like 15 takes to say two lines, you know, like my intro and just really bad stuff.
• 7:44
  Right.
• 7:45
  All of us start.
• 7:46
  Yeah.
• 7:47
  I read like Ozani, like, oh shit, you freeze frame.
• 7:49
  Yeah.
• 7:50
  So it was really bad, I would say.
• 7:53
  And then it, but to me, it was just like working out like you just get better and you
• 7:56
  get more comfortable and becomes more authentic.
• 7:59
  So in the beginning, I think everyone's going to suck.
• 8:01
  Yeah.
• 8:02
  You just have to, you basically just have to jump in the deep end and embrace the suck.
• 8:05
  Yes.
• 8:06
  Yeah.
• 8:07
  And know that that's part of the journey.
• 8:08
  Is that what you're hearing from most of the people that you interview as far as that
• 8:10
  are that are doing a lot more video and content these days?
• 8:13
  Oh, yeah.
• 8:14
  For sure.
• 8:15
  Nobody starts out good.
• 8:16
  Yeah.
• 8:17
  We're doing this kind of stuff that we're talking about here and doing.
• 8:20
  Yeah.
• 8:21
  It's not natural, right?
• 8:22
  To put the camera in front of us and all of a sudden kind of beyond.
• 8:27
  But the more you do it, the more relaxed, I guess you, and you don't let those things distract
• 8:33
  you.
• 8:34
  I mean, because you focus on the message and the connection where you're really trying
• 8:36
  to get across.
• 8:37
  Yeah.
• 8:38
  And I think like in the beginning, you don't know your own voice, really.
• 8:41
  Yeah.
• 8:42
  What your client is going to be about.
• 8:43
  Right.
• 8:44
  You don't have this whole playbook.
• 8:45
  Right.
• 8:46
  You start.
• 8:47
  And I think people don't realize by starting and just doing it, you kind of figure it out
• 8:51
  along the way.
• 8:52
  You don't have to have this whole thing mapped out.
• 8:54
  And I think some, you know, one of the things that I know I have struggled with in others
• 8:56
  as well is like, you know, like you said, with a video, who's going to watch it?
• 9:00
  Part of what still comes up for me is like, you know, they call it the imposter syndrome
• 9:04
  a little bit.
• 9:05
  Yeah.
• 9:06
  But it's like, you know, really?
• 9:07
  Who are you to say that or who's going to listen to me and what makes you a expert?
• 9:10
  So how did you get through that, man?
• 9:12
  So I knew I had a lot of information to share.
• 9:16
  And I think I'm not unlike many other people in the industry.
• 9:19
  We have a lot of experience, a lot of expertise to share with the audience.
• 9:23
  But as far as digital goes, I was just a ghost like I did not exist online.
• 9:29
  So I had my core group of people that I did business with, that knew me, like me, trust
• 9:33
  me.
• 9:34
  And I was like, how do I scale that?
• 9:35
  And to me, this is the only way you can do that.
• 9:37
  Like you got to get, we need more people, you know, that are aware of us, essentially
• 9:42
  to do business with us.
• 9:43
  And I think of it like this, like there's this middle piece of the transaction, like from
• 9:46
  when you get your customer to when you close, and that's the process, right?
• 9:50
  Like how you take care of your clients and, you know, how you get them through the deals
• 9:55
  and, and, you know, many people would say, I do an excellent job at this.
• 9:59
  I'm like, my clients love me, my four partners love me.
• 10:03
  But to me, like that's the middle part that can be replaced because everybody says that
• 10:07
  they do a great job.
• 10:08
  Everybody says that they have great product service, all that stuff, right?
• 10:11
  And great reviews.
• 10:12
  So if that middle part is just becoming a commodity now, like how do we avoid that?
• 10:17
  And that's the front end part, which is the awareness piece, right?
• 10:20
  So like I was, I had this part down, but I didn't have any awareness.
• 10:25
  So I figured like best, best, like the best service provider doesn't always win.
• 10:30
  It's the best known person, right?
• 10:31
  So best known beats best.
• 10:33
  So once I got the awareness piece, it was like throwing gas on the fire because I think
• 10:36
  if you're good at what you do, now people become aware of that at scale and you're
• 10:41
  a community first, and then in your region, then, you know, sometimes nationally.
• 10:44
  And then all of a sudden, now you just have inbound.
• 10:46
  People are calling you, emailing.
• 10:47
  Yeah.
• 10:48
  Well, awareness is important.
• 10:49
  It reminds me of this question I used to ask agents all the time in teaching them classes,
• 10:54
  which is what's more important, being well-known or being a knowledgeable, real estate agent,
• 11:01
  right?
• 11:02
  Being well-known or being knowledgeable, right?
• 11:03
  And then you get the next hands that go on.
• 11:04
  Knowledgeable, well-known.
• 11:05
  Yeah.
• 11:06
  But to your point is all the knowledge in the world doesn't matter if you don't ever
• 11:10
  get a chance to talk to anybody.
• 11:11
  Exactly.
• 11:12
  Like, how are people going to know about this, you know, like, I have great stuff that
• 11:16
  I do for my clients.
• 11:18
  But if I don't tell people at, you know, on a stage, essentially, then how are they
• 11:23
  going to find me?
• 11:24
  And so I think that's the part that people who say, like, all this stuff isn't for me,
• 11:29
  or I'm a private person, or I don't really want to do content videos, not for me, I'm
• 11:33
  just going to do my job.
• 11:34
  It's not enough anymore.
• 11:35
  Like, that part is just, people can replace the application that you use.
• 11:40
  People can replace the service, you know, they're actively doing that today.
• 11:44
  Would you start it out with video by, if I'm correct, creating videos with your business
• 11:49
  partners, like real estate agents and stuff, right?
• 11:51
  Yeah.
• 11:52
  So I think as a mortgage professional, if that's the place you can start right away.
• 11:56
  Yeah.
• 11:57
  Like you said, you have that natural audience that people already know you like your
• 11:59
  trust.
• 12:00
  So there's comfort level there.
• 12:01
  Yeah.
• 12:02
  Right?
• 12:03
  So what kind of stuff did you start doing with them?
• 12:04
  So I would tell people, like, if you have not done video content yet, that would be the
• 12:07
  place I would start.
• 12:08
  It's like this is easy to capture a conversation.
• 12:10
  We don't even know these cameras are rolling, right?
• 12:11
  There's nobody here.
• 12:12
  Yeah, yeah.
• 12:13
  That's right.
• 12:14
  So we just talk.
• 12:15
  Yeah.
• 12:16
  And that was the hack I wish I started with, because starting talking to the camera,
• 12:20
  you freeze, you get your sound, you go in your head, you go internal, you're like,
• 12:24
  how do I look?
• 12:25
  How do I sound?
• 12:26
  I hate it.
• 12:27
  Like, but just have a conversation and put the camera in the room and capture a conversation.
• 12:31
  So I would start with your best referral partners, bring them in and start to talk about.
• 12:35
  I would talk about like, how's the market going?
• 12:37
  You're like, what are you seeing out there?
• 12:39
  And think about this.
• 12:41
  It's not about you.
• 12:42
  It's about them.
• 12:43
  Right.
• 12:44
  So ask questions where they would, where the answer would allow them to sell themselves
• 12:48
  in a non-sales way, in a conversation authentic way.
• 12:51
  So I'll say stuff like, so Jeff, like, Sam, my house is on the market, it's been six months
• 12:57
  hasn't sold, like, and I need help, like, what would you do?
• 13:01
  What would you and your team do?
• 13:02
  And then you go through your whole marketing plan and how you do this for your clients and
• 13:05
  how you do this and how you get them success.
• 13:07
  And then in it, if they did that to the camera, it would come off as, use car salesman,
• 13:12
  another agent, but they did it in a real conversation.
• 13:15
  It's actually real and works.
• 13:17
  So what we do is we do that and then give them the content that they can use afterwards.
• 13:21
  And it's gold.
• 13:22
  So it works with everybody.
• 13:23
  So you're doing that right now with real estate agents.
• 13:25
  And then they're taking it, putting it out there like on the web, whatever.
• 13:27
  Yeah.
• 13:28
  Because many agents need help with their content.
• 13:29
  Yeah.
• 13:30
  But they don't know how to do content.
• 13:31
  They need a lot of help.
• 13:32
  Yeah.
• 13:33
  Yeah.
• 13:34
  And then you have a podcast, give them some microcontent to use afterwards.
• 13:38
  It will, like, that is more valuable than mine leads and things like that.
• 13:42
  Are you providing just one file for them?
• 13:44
  Are you slicing up different snippets?
• 13:45
  No, no, no.
• 13:46
  You will.
• 13:47
  So, like, you know, and say somebody's like, I don't have the expertise on of the time.
• 13:50
  So here's what you do.
• 13:52
  Tonight after the podcast, you put that long form video in any easy video editor.
• 13:58
  It could be eye-moving.
• 13:59
  Sure.
• 14:00
  It could be any of them, right?
• 14:01
  And you learn how to cut the clips if you're somebody on five or whatever.
• 14:05
  Yeah.
• 14:06
  But like, cutting basic clips is very easy to do.
• 14:08
  Like, I think anybody could learn.
• 14:10
  Yeah.
• 14:11
  Just Google the thing.
• 14:12
  Yeah.
• 14:13
  And use Google, right?
• 14:14
  Figure it out.
• 14:15
  Watch a YouTube video and you'll learn.
• 14:16
  Right.
• 14:17
  So what do you have to do?
• 14:18
  You have to not watch your Netflix tonight.
• 14:19
  Yeah, yeah.
• 14:20
  And you got to spend an hour cutting this video and learning.
• 14:22
  Next time it'll take you 20 minutes, but the first time it's going to take a couple
• 14:24
  hours.
• 14:25
  Yeah.
• 14:26
  So you cut those clips and email it to the agent.
• 14:27
  Yeah.
• 14:28
  The referral partner.
• 14:29
  Okay.
• 14:30
  Yeah, and show.
• 14:32
  By the way, I made these two clips for you because I think they were really impactful.
• 14:35
  I think you should share these on social.
• 14:37
  They would do really well.
• 14:38
  They go ahead and if they do it, most do because the clips are good.
• 14:42
  Yeah.
• 14:43
  And they get great feedback.
• 14:45
  Right.
• 14:46
  And they're like, oh, Neil created some content that may have led to business for them.
• 14:51
  You know, like, you never know.
• 14:52
  Somebody reaches out from their sphere.
• 14:54
  Something random happens if they continue doing it.
• 14:56
  Or maybe that was the thing that got them started.
• 14:57
  But like, oh, this is actually cool.
• 14:59
  I like this.
• 15:00
  And then it gets them on their content journey or it gets them in the mode of putting out
• 15:03
  content.
• 15:04
  And they will really appreciate you for that.
• 15:05
  So I think that's more valuable to them.
• 15:07
  Sure.
• 15:08
  That hour you spent at 10 o'clock after your kids go to bed or whatever and you cut a couple
• 15:12
  clips for them.
• 15:13
  Like, that's more impactful than buying them zelo leads or buying them or bringing them
• 15:16
  flyers or chotch guise or donuts or more impactful in flyers.
• 15:20
  Yeah.
• 15:21
  I don't know.
• 15:22
  Like bagels, maybe, you know, but, um, but that's like, you got to think outside the box.
• 15:26
  Yeah.
• 15:27
  What would make you stick out?
• 15:28
  Well, yeah.
• 15:29
  So you're talking about becoming a business partner, you know, and so there's a couple
• 15:32
  conversations that we could probably have here today, uh, one of them is on the, you
• 15:35
  know, the business partner referral partner side of things and, uh, I'm still a big advocate
• 15:40
  for partnering with real estate agents.
• 15:41
  I could go off on a whole tangent all about that because, you know, there's, there's these
• 15:45
  different voices at our industry that are saying, hey, you got to get to the customer
• 15:47
  first and you got to like have a be everywhere and have a brand online and all that kind
• 15:51
  of stuff.
• 15:52
  And I'm like, yes, that's true.
• 15:54
  However, for those of us in the field every single day, that's, that's a long ramp,
• 15:58
  right?
• 15:59
  That's a long runway to get there to get to the customer first.
• 16:02
  Um, so I like the fact that you went to the real estate agents as your primary place to
• 16:07
  kind of roll up your sleeves when it comes to digital marketing and building a brand,
• 16:10
  uh, cause you get to learn a lot, but you also get to, uh, I mean, from that, tell me
• 16:15
  what's happened to your real estate relationships as you've done that.
• 16:18
  How have those evolved?
• 16:19
  Yeah.
• 16:20
  So basically I took my business, uh, like, you know, net, we're all W2 people in the
• 16:25
  mortgage industry for the most part, except for the broker community.
• 16:27
  Um, and I was doing like, you know, 300 K in W2 income annually, which is great.
• 16:33
  Like I'm not knocking that.
• 16:34
  Sure.
• 16:35
  You know, third of that goes to the government, right?
• 16:38
  My wife and kids spend under the other, yeah, and they're like, what are my building?
• 16:42
  Like I'm just running this hamster wheel.
• 16:44
  I'm on a treadmill.
• 16:45
  Right.
• 16:46
  And I feel like if I didn't have my next deal, like you're only as good as your last
• 16:48
  deal.
• 16:49
  And you start to like, you start to, uh, almost get a little depressed.
• 16:53
  Like because you're, you just like, when does this end?
• 16:55
  Like I'm just running chasing leads, chasing people, chasing referral partners.
• 16:59
  Right.
• 17:00
  Like how do I flip this round to actually build a brand that can be to track these people?
• 17:03
  So as I started doing this, then more agents wanted to be, wanted to do, to do content.
• 17:08
  The word gets out.
• 17:09
  The word gets out, right?
• 17:10
  And then you share that content, even consumers that are in your sphere record, hey,
• 17:15
  Neil's educating agents.
• 17:17
  He probably knows what he's doing.
• 17:18
  He's at the top of his game.
• 17:19
  So just remind, the content works for everybody.
• 17:21
  I think people are, they get kind of weird, like, oh, if I share, if I do content targeted
• 17:25
  to agents, how's that going to help, uh, with my direct to consumer business?
• 17:30
  Well, the consumers, they're like, they, they, it's just an impression at some point.
• 17:34
  It could be anything, you know, so you could be, uh, the video, aren't you sometimes?
• 17:37
  Of course.
• 17:38
  Yeah.
• 17:39
  You ask the question or you're in the conversation, right?
• 17:41
  So if that agent's putting that video out there on their sphere of influence and
• 17:45
  they're, you know, buyers or whatever coming through that, their funnels and channels
• 17:49
  and they're like, I mean, you know, I need a, a loan officer and Neil just happens to
• 17:53
  be in the video.
• 17:54
  Well, geez, you know, we, we know that, uh, by and large, the, uh, loan officer that
• 17:59
  a lot of people choose is to direct influence by the real estate agent.
• 18:02
  Yeah.
• 18:03
  Right?
• 18:04
  There's still a big influence here in that factor.
• 18:05
  Yeah.
• 18:06
  So to your point about the consumer direct, you're winning there too.
• 18:08
  Exactly.
• 18:09
  And then you can put out, so then we got into the real estate content, then we got into
• 18:12
  the community content, then we got into financial education content, then we got into, you
• 18:16
  know, all these different types of things.
• 18:18
  But I started with the agents just because that, like to your point, it's a, you know,
• 18:22
  them start with the ones, you know, have a conversation about the market, have a conversation
• 18:26
  about business.
• 18:27
  So I did that, led to multiple, multiple different things of content.
• 18:30
  Then I started getting into how can I get influencers and doing more stuff like that.
• 18:34
  And over an 18 month, so the first six months was garbage because I didn't know what the
• 18:38
  fuck I was doing.
• 18:39
  Right.
• 18:40
  Right.
• 18:41
  I didn't see my pants, my content sucks.
• 18:43
  So you have to do shit content to get to the good content, so just put it in the time,
• 18:47
  right?
• 18:48
  But then the year I felt like last 12 months was actually good.
• 18:51
  So over that year, I quadrupled my business and income.
• 18:55
  So like this year, we'll finish the year at 1.2 million and net income after, you know,
• 19:04
  doing all this for the past year.
• 19:05
  And I don't say that to like pound my chest, but I want people to realize, I think this
• 19:09
  is real.
• 19:10
  Yeah.
• 19:11
  If you go hard, like, you don't have to go as hard as I did.
• 19:12
  But if you even do half of that, wouldn't that be a huge impact?
• 19:15
  If you doubled your income next year and your business, like how much of an impact would
• 19:20
  that have on you and your family and your future?
• 19:21
  Sure.
• 19:22
  I think people don't see the opportunity.
• 19:23
  They think like, oh, this is a hobby.
• 19:24
  Neil's got some cool videos up.
• 19:26
  Yeah.
• 19:27
  No, this is generating real business results.
• 19:28
  Well, people don't know that it's actually generating business for you.
• 19:30
  That's the part they miss, right?
• 19:32
  Yeah.
• 19:33
  For sure.
• 19:34
  Well, how many real terms are you doing this with now, like creating content together
• 19:38
  and all that?
• 19:39
  So we have a core group of like three or four that we do content with regularly.
• 19:43
  And then on and on one off basis, I'll just use it as the avenue to meet with a new person
• 19:48
  or a builder.
• 19:49
  So like you, contact a builder in your community, be like, okay, you guys, we'd love to bring
• 19:55
  awareness to your community.
• 19:57
  I create video content for business partners that I work with, shoot like a nice community
• 20:02
  highlight video, some drone footage, show a thing, go interview the sales agent, sales
• 20:06
  agent walks you through the best features of this home, the smart home features, this
• 20:09
  cool thing.
• 20:10
  Oh, the, the, you know how model homes are, they're like, they're like, amazing, show well.
• 20:15
  Yeah.
• 20:16
  You're not going to get a house like that, but for objects, like, you know, like you're
• 20:19
  paying for all the upgrades.
• 20:20
  Yeah.
• 20:21
  Like some of these homes literally have $200,000 of upgrades.
• 20:23
  Oh, yeah.
• 20:24
  It's insanity.
• 20:25
  Yeah.
• 20:26
  Yeah.
• 20:27
  But he, like, it's a great product.
• 20:28
  The objects are great, right?
• 20:29
  Yeah.
• 20:30
  So I think like, if you do that, deliver it to the builder, the owner or the broker who
• 20:35
  is in charge of who's the proverb lender, you show the sales staff in a high, in a highlight,
• 20:41
  you bring awareness to their thing.
• 20:44
  You've done nothing, but help them with not, you're not asking for anything.
• 20:48
  So the other guy is in there with my flyer and the bagels and the pens saying, please
• 20:53
  help me be a, please let me be your backup lender.
• 20:56
  I'll take this shit.
• 20:57
  I mean, I'll take the trash.
• 20:58
  Right.
• 20:59
  Right.
• 21:00
  I'm coming in there saying, Hey, I do high level marketing.
• 21:01
  Here's an example of it.
• 21:02
  Here's one for you for free, by the way.
• 21:04
  And why?
• 21:05
  Well, I just like helping, you know, in my business part as I do business with, this
• 21:09
  is what I do.
• 21:10
  Oh, shit.
• 21:11
  Like who's going to stick out in the man?
• 21:14
  And then what happens is just through doing that, and then you are now top of mind with
• 21:19
  them, then you follow up.
• 21:21
  And then eventually be like, look, here's what I do from a lending standpoint.
• 21:25
  And I'd love to be able to work with you guys.
• 21:27
  But don't go straight for the cult.
• 21:28
  Like everyone goes straight for the close up front without providing any value.
• 21:31
  Yeah.
• 21:33
  And then people will say, well, Neil, what if you did that and you never got a piece
• 21:35
  of business from it?
• 21:36
  That happens, right?
• 21:37
  We've shot videos with many people that we never heard from afterwards.
• 21:41
  They just took the content and we never spoke to them again.
• 21:43
  But the ones that do, it's gold.
• 21:45
  So what is the process that you kind of follow with that, if you're going to approach a builder
• 21:49
  community or real estate agent or whatever, how long do you kind of invest?
• 21:52
  Is that a one time thing?
• 21:53
  I think it's a one time thing.
• 21:54
  And then you follow up and, you know, you continue.
• 21:58
  It's a great piece of content for you because you're in it.
• 22:00
  Sure.
• 22:01
  That's what this people.
• 22:02
  Yeah.
• 22:03
  So all your, um, so to no lose for you, I mean, obviously, it's a time thing, right?
• 22:07
  In some resources, if you hire a camera person or whatever, but other than that, you get
• 22:12
  to repurpose that content, which helps your bigger overall strategy anyways.
• 22:14
  Yeah.
• 22:15
  Cause you're, you're in their content now.
• 22:16
  They post it.
• 22:17
  Yeah.
• 22:18
  Right.
• 22:19
  You're in your content.
• 22:20
  But even if they never reciprocate, you're like, well, I'm, I'm still winning.
• 22:21
  Exactly.
• 22:22
  So there's no lose to it.
• 22:23
  And then what happens is, uh, you follow up, you stay in contact with them.
• 22:27
  You do your lending sales pitch, maybe on meeting three or phone call three or whatever.
• 22:31
  Right.
• 22:32
  But don't lead with that.
• 22:33
  And then you start to get a business like, you'll be amazed.
• 22:35
  One day, the text or the DM lights up or the phone lights up and it's like, can you, um,
• 22:40
  I have a client?
• 22:41
  Would you be able to talk to him?
• 22:42
  Yes.
• 22:43
  Right?
• 22:44
  Like that's like, when you get that DM, you're like, it worked.
• 22:46
  You know, it's like, uh, it's shocking at first, but it's cool when it's all coming.
• 22:50
  Like the best part, I say the best part about prospecting is when you don't have to do it
• 22:53
  anymore.
• 22:54
  It just comes to you.
• 22:55
  Have you ever had realtors that, uh, you teamed up to do this, this whole video strategy
• 22:59
  with and they decided to back out and just say, you know what, yeah, they do that.
• 23:04
  Why do they do that?
• 23:05
  Because they didn't like the way they looked on the video, uh, well, man, I'm sorry.
• 23:11
  They're basically like, they're like, you know what?
• 23:13
  I didn't look good.
• 23:14
  I can't watch that.
• 23:15
  So they're all hung up on themselves.
• 23:17
  We just had this happen with somebody like we did the video, Eric helped coach her through
• 23:21
  it because she was having a hard time, yeah, yeah, told her what to say, said relax.
• 23:25
  She finally got through it.
• 23:26
  I thought it was great.
• 23:27
  Right.
• 23:28
  She posted this.
• 23:29
  I'll never talk to you again.
• 23:30
  Are you serious?
• 23:31
  Yeah.
• 23:32
  Wow.
• 23:33
  I said, okay, I'm sure.
• 23:34
  She was a good agent.
• 23:35
  She was mediocre.
• 23:36
  So I just said, um, okay, you know, I'll lay back, you know, I didn't push it with her.
• 23:39
  But, you know, you have people like that that are just not going to be comfortable seeing
• 23:42
  themselves.
• 23:43
  And I think it's just a desensitization that occurs.
• 23:45
  Yeah, yeah.
• 23:46
  Like if you do it more, you stop caring about how you look and sound.
• 23:49
  Right.
• 23:50
  That's where I'm at right now, man.
• 23:51
  Yeah.
• 23:52
  You don't give a shit.
• 23:53
  I don't care.
• 23:54
  Yeah.
• 23:55
  Yeah.
• 23:56
  But the branding thing you were talking about that, it posted the other day, you're like,
• 23:59
  uh, Jesus, you look at the wrinkles and this and that and the other thing and like, man,
• 24:02
  I look old.
• 24:03
  I need an eye lift.
• 24:04
  Yeah.
• 24:05
  But I'm like, you know what?
• 24:06
  I don't care.
• 24:07
  But you know what was more important than all that shit was that the fact that what you
• 24:10
  said in that video was highly valuable to the people.
• 24:13
  Right.
• 24:14
  Like I've done videos that looked amazing.
• 24:16
  Yeah.
• 24:17
  I've done videos with people that are like so called celebrities in the space.
• 24:20
  Right.
• 24:21
  And what's weird is those don't perform any better than the video where you just talked
• 24:25
  to the phone and said something honest and real that helped somebody.
• 24:30
  Right.
• 24:31
  So I think like we all get hung up on the optics part.
• 24:33
  Yeah.
• 24:34
  But the consumer doesn't care.
• 24:35
  It's more about the message and the value you provide in the content.
• 24:38
  So how do you structure and schedule your content marketing or you know, you're heavy
• 24:42
  on video.
• 24:43
  So, you know, maybe that we should ask that, right?
• 24:45
  How do you schedule that into your week, your month and, you know, basically for me,
• 24:49
  it was just a, I would block the time and now we're doing so much of it that it's basically
• 24:54
  replaced all the time I would spend prospecting.
• 24:56
  Right.
• 24:57
  So like networking, calling all these things, like doorknocking, you don't call 40 realtors
• 25:01
  every Monday.
• 25:02
  No.
• 25:03
  Like that whole core thing.
• 25:04
  You went to a core thing.
• 25:05
  Yeah.
• 25:06
  And they're like, you what was the answer to that video I haven't watched it yet?
• 25:09
  Should you win?
• 25:10
  I don't want, we don't want to like create any, you know, but it was like, it's up to
• 25:14
  you.
• 25:15
  It's up to you.
• 25:16
  And basically if you need, if you need that discipline and accountability, I think
• 25:21
  that's the best part about the core.
• 25:22
  Because it's like, okay, you must make your calls.
• 25:24
  And I think everything will work if you did it.
• 25:26
  But it's just not the most effective way.
• 25:27
  I just remember the story.
• 25:28
  I think you told me about that.
• 25:29
  Yeah.
• 25:30
  Well, I'm not going to bring it up.
• 25:31
  Okay.
• 25:32
  It was bad though.
• 25:33
  Like they were saying, get off social, make your calls because it was a waste of time.
• 25:38
  Yeah.
• 25:39
  If they're just on their scrolling, scrolling, burning hours, not using it productively
• 25:42
  like you are.
• 25:43
  Yeah.
• 25:44
  So I think they said lock yourself in a room and make your 20 calls.
• 25:47
  The problem that I found with doing that because I did the same thing before is that
• 25:51
  now of those 23 are answering the phone, unless they know you.
• 25:55
  So these are cold contacts, so lukewarm, no, you pick up the phone anymore.
• 26:00
  And then the people that pick up the phone, you're bothering them because you're saying
• 26:05
  I'd like to take you to coffee.
• 26:06
  Right.
• 26:07
  And they're like, holy crap.
• 26:08
  You're the same.
• 26:09
  Why?
• 26:10
  Flender this week.
• 26:11
  One day who's called and offered coffee.
• 26:12
  So how about this?
• 26:13
  How about you create some video content?
• 26:15
  You make an audience on Facebook of all the realtors in your market and you pay $43 to
• 26:19
  make sure that everybody sees those videos when you post them.
• 26:22
  All the realtors.
• 26:23
  You're creating a custom audience of real estate agents.
• 26:25
  Yes.
• 26:26
  It's easy to do.
• 26:27
  Everybody who includes all of these real estate job titles, there's 43 variations real estate
• 26:30
  agent, realtor, blah, blah, blah, you create that list.
• 26:34
  Then within a 15 mile radius of my community, create the video, post it organically, share
• 26:39
  it, whatever.
• 26:40
  Right.
• 26:41
  After a couple days of organic, go pay $43, like to make sure these people see it's a no
• 26:46
  brainer.
• 26:47
  Would you rather pay the $43 and have your prospecting working while you're in your
• 26:51
  underwear at home or like go actually make these calls and sit with people?
• 26:54
  So you've done that.
• 26:55
  I do that.
• 26:56
  Yeah.
• 26:57
  Every time.
• 26:58
  And what is the content of the videos that you're typically doing on that?
• 27:00
  So those would be the videos that are contextual to them.
• 27:02
  So if it's a video that's about, hey, here's how here's a hack to make yourself look better
• 27:08
  on video or to be more comfortable on video or here's a hack on this or that.
• 27:12
  So business advice that would help them.
• 27:14
  So you don't want to like do the community.
• 27:15
  Clear.
• 27:16
  Yeah.
• 27:17
  For everybody watching and listening is because you're creating a custom audience of those
• 27:20
  targeted realtors, 15 mile radius, that's all who's going to see it.
• 27:25
  That's it.
• 27:26
  Yeah.
• 27:27
  So the point being is that you're not going to be putting all this content out that's irrelevant
• 27:30
  to the rest of the people.
• 27:31
  Yeah.
• 27:32
  That's a problem.
• 27:33
  I would say like the video needs to be contextual to the person.
• 27:36
  Yeah.
• 27:37
  That link is the better.
• 27:38
  It does.
• 27:39
  But if you're only showing that content to that specific custom audience, man, right?
• 27:42
  That's great.
• 27:43
  Because that's on message.
• 27:44
  Yeah.
• 27:45
  So one side benefit, I think people don't realize that I just stumbled into it.
• 27:50
  So initially you just want to grow your business.
• 27:51
  You want to make you want to help more people and you want to create more income or whatever.
• 27:56
  So you do that for your own business.
• 27:58
  Then you realize there's so much business out here.
• 28:00
  I can't handle it.
• 28:01
  I need more people.
• 28:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:03
  I need to recruit.
• 28:04
  Right?
• 28:05
  What are recruiters?
• 28:06
  They spam you on LinkedIn and they blast you and say, hey, you'd be a good fit here.
• 28:10
  Right.
• 28:11
  I don't know you.
• 28:12
  Right?
• 28:14
  This attracts people because other L.O.s see the same content.
• 28:18
  Right.
• 28:19
  And they're like, hey, Neil, I really love what you're doing with the videos.
• 28:23
  How can you help me do the same?
• 28:24
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:25
  Like, let's go to coffee.
• 28:26
  Yeah.
• 28:27
  Give them the advice.
• 28:28
  Let them try it themselves.
• 28:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:30
  Worst case, they take it and they do it and they double their business.
• 28:33
  Right.
• 28:34
  Also tough.
• 28:35
  That's great.
• 28:36
  You help them do that.
• 28:37
  That's great.
• 28:38
  And good commerce, good strategy, I think.
• 28:40
  And every once in a while, somebody tries on their own, they're like, Neil, I'm not getting
• 28:44
  it down or whatever.
• 28:45
  Like, you can tell.
• 28:46
  Like, you gave them the information.
• 28:47
  They did nothing with it, which is most people.
• 28:49
  Right.
• 28:50
  Then be like, hey, Jeff, like, you haven't done anything.
• 28:53
  We have a team here that does this for our staff.
• 28:55
  This is the value we provide.
• 28:56
  So we have everything that every other lender has, but in addition, we have a media team.
• 29:00
  So why don't you come join our team like, you know, or just think about it because we
• 29:04
  could blow you up.
• 29:05
  We already have, I've been doing this for this 18 months.
• 29:08
  I could give you this shortcut because I had to go through all the shit to get to
• 29:11
  the good stuff.
• 29:12
  Right.
• 29:13
  I could just give you the good stuff and we have the team to help you.
• 29:14
  Think about it.
• 29:15
  And then those conversations will lead to recruitment.
• 29:18
  And you've had a couple of people do that.
• 29:19
  Two people.
• 29:20
  Yeah, so far.
• 29:21
  So I'm just working on that part, but I just, because I know I need more people.
• 29:25
  You want to track the right people.
• 29:26
  But I thought it was great that you can create that context.
• 29:30
  Then that leads, you know, when you have the conversation, they're already bought into
• 29:33
  this whole thing.
• 29:34
  Yeah.
• 29:35
  They know you.
• 29:36
  It's not a cold call.
• 29:37
  It's not a spam call.
• 29:38
  So you instead of chasing them, pursuing, yeah, you're attracting the right people because
• 29:41
  they, if they see that and they're like, Hey, man, I want to do that kind of thing.
• 29:44
  You don't have to convince them that you need to be your own personal brand and build
• 29:47
  content and all that stuff.
• 29:48
  Yeah.
• 29:49
  You buy into it.
• 29:50
  And they don't have to do it at the same level.
• 29:51
  Like I think I'm a little crazy as far as how much time I spend with this stuff.
• 29:54
  But other people, like I said, they can do, I think they should just do a minimum of a
• 29:58
  couple pieces of content a week.
• 29:59
  Yeah.
• 30:00
  You know, share some things on stories.
• 30:01
  Not 100 posts a day.
• 30:02
  Yeah.
• 30:03
  That's crazy.
• 30:04
  That's just, I think that's just like 100 means like a lot.
• 30:08
  Yeah.
• 30:09
  But there's no way, right?
• 30:10
  Because you see other people posting, like I think they don't realize this, Gary and other
• 30:16
  people in the space say, put out content, put out content, put it out.
• 30:19
  But like before you turn the camera on, have something to say, right, right?
• 30:23
  Right.
• 30:24
  Well, that's funny.
• 30:25
  You said it because I was thinking about the context of our conversation and we're both
• 30:28
  fans of Gary.
• 30:29
  I don't know to what degree you are.
• 30:31
  I'm not a fan boy to the degree where I'm going to buy the sneakers and all that
• 30:34
  stuff.
• 30:35
  Yeah.
• 30:36
  Yeah.
• 30:37
  And I believe that everything should be contextual and filtered through your own, you
• 30:39
  know, personal, like you said, appetite or whatever.
• 30:43
  But yeah, the stuff that Gary says sometimes, I just disagree with, you know, about 100
• 30:49
  pieces of content today.
• 30:50
  Oh, the one thing I was trying to say is, I don't know if you remember, I think it was
• 30:53
  that same event.
• 30:54
  Somebody asked him, can you post too much content and he's like, no, you can't post too
• 30:57
  much content.
• 30:58
  And I'm like, yes, you can.
• 30:59
  Yeah.
• 31:00
  If it sucks, yes, yes, that's the problem.
• 31:03
  So the answer is always both the problem is we say we need more content.
• 31:08
  So this week we posted, I don't know, almost 30 pieces of content, the 27 pieces of content,
• 31:13
  some are videos, some are little clips, some are blogs, some are whatever, on three different
• 31:17
  platforms.
• 31:18
  My main three platforms, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram.
• 31:21
  I'm not hard on YouTube.
• 31:22
  Yeah.
• 31:23
  I'm just getting them.
• 31:24
  Oh, you're there, man.
• 31:25
  You're there.
• 31:26
  I'm there.
• 31:27
  But it's hard, right?
• 31:28
  To get audience on YouTube.
• 31:29
  No.
• 31:30
  So, but like the point is, is that volume is important.
• 31:35
  Yeah.
• 31:36
  But then at the same time, like, so somebody posted, so the next day they say, Neil,
• 31:40
  I took your advice.
• 31:41
  I just posted 15 things.
• 31:42
  Yeah.
• 31:43
  Dog shit.
• 31:44
  Uh-huh.
• 31:45
  Yeah.
• 31:46
  Well, you don't have anything to say.
• 31:47
  And it was, you couldn't see, you couldn't hear you or it was the, it's bad.
• 31:50
  Yeah.
• 31:51
  Everything is bad about the quality or it could be that you didn't have anything to say.
• 31:54
  You're just like, hey, I'm doing content just for the sake of doing content.
• 31:57
  Yeah.
• 31:58
  Now people have tuned you out.
• 31:59
  Right.
• 32:00
  Yeah.
• 32:01
  I took your advice.
• 32:02
  It didn't work.
• 32:03
  Well, you need to have decent content.
• 32:04
  Right.
• 32:05
  Well, I thought you said quality wasn't important.
• 32:06
  Well, it is.
• 32:07
  Like, it's always, it's hard to give the advice because it's, the answer is both.
• 32:09
  Yes.
• 32:10
  You need a base level of quality.
• 32:11
  You need to say something somewhat valuable.
• 32:13
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:14
  But at the same time, like, if you don't have that, then volume's not the answer.
• 32:18
  You need to get that stuff, that piece first.
• 32:19
  Yeah.
• 32:20
  I think it starts with having something meaningful to say, right?
• 32:23
  Like we've been talking about this whole thing is don't make it about you, make it about
• 32:26
  the other person, right?
• 32:27
  Right.
• 32:28
  And I think some people just really need to be kind of coached along the process of
• 32:30
  how do they, because most people don't think a day in the life that that's interesting
• 32:35
  for people.
• 32:36
  Yeah.
• 32:37
  But it actually is or it can be depending on how you structure that.
• 32:39
  Like one of the things I always recommend is tell us success stories.
• 32:41
  Yeah.
• 32:42
  Tell us a story about how somebody came to you from another lender or whatever and it's
• 32:46
  like they drop the ball, the eleventh hour, you picked up the ball and you win in your
• 32:49
  champion.
• 32:50
  And what I love about working in this business is helping the Smith family, right?
• 32:53
  And all that kind of stuff that happens every week to people.
• 32:56
  Yeah.
• 32:57
  And you know, people say like we talked about earlier, why would somebody be interested
• 33:01
  in this?
• 33:02
  Nobody's going to care.
• 33:03
  Right.
• 33:04
  We're like, we're saying no for the audience.
• 33:05
  That'd be like me saying, Jeff, I loved it the podcast with you on Saturday.
• 33:09
  But if you, if it's okay, if you don't have time, don't worry about it, man.
• 33:12
  You don't want to buy it.
• 33:13
  Yeah.
• 33:14
  Yeah.
• 33:15
  Like you're telling them no.
• 33:16
  So like you're saying, you're asking about the same time you're like, you're saying
• 33:19
  no for the audience.
• 33:20
  Right.
• 33:21
  Right.
• 33:22
  So that's what by not by saying nobody would be interested.
• 33:23
  That's what you're saying.
• 33:25
  Tell that story and the people who don't want to watch it will simply keep scrolling.
• 33:30
  The people that do want to will watch it.
• 33:31
  You're not offending anybody by telling that story.
• 33:34
  So don't worry about it.
• 33:35
  You know what one of the, one of the posts that got on Instagram specifically got the
• 33:39
  most engagement for me recently because we talk about like being real and transparent
• 33:44
  to the people love that is I actually posted a video dealing with a situation I was dealing
• 33:51
  with with my, with my 15 year old son and wanting him to be more engaging and converse
• 33:55
  with me.
• 33:56
  And he might be even seeing this.
• 33:57
  I don't know.
• 33:58
  Yeah.
• 33:59
  I love you, man.
• 34:00
  And just kind of like, how do I kind of break through that and get him to engage more
• 34:05
  and have a conversation and that blew up, man.
• 34:07
  It's like unbelievable.
• 34:08
  The DMs I got off of that was like heartfelt DMs, you know.
• 34:11
  Yeah.
• 34:12
  It's like, I think dealing with stuff just, you know, just talk about it.
• 34:15
  And that's a really good point.
• 34:18
  So you have your content about your community, you have your business content, you have your
• 34:22
  informational conscience, you have your whole content strategy, but the part that led to
• 34:26
  a lot of business for me is that just like you said, the human connection.
• 34:29
  So people need to know you're really good at what you do, but they want to know you're
• 34:33
  human as well.
• 34:34
  Right.
• 34:35
  Right.
• 34:36
  So if you show that human side.
• 34:37
  So for me, it's like, well, I'm here with my family or this happened with my kids,
• 34:40
  like you just brought up a, like a story with your child, like all that stuff.
• 34:45
  Or even stuff you think is dumb or simple, like you're passionate about food, like show
• 34:50
  the food you're eating, other restaurants, I went and saw the food fighters here a week
• 34:54
  ago.
• 34:55
  Dude, I watched that.
• 34:56
  And then I watched the whole story.
• 34:57
  Was that the clip or what?
• 34:58
  But I love that band and then you, like the quality of your phone, I don't know what
• 35:02
  it sounded like.
• 35:03
  It sounded like that.
• 35:04
  It's pretty close, but yeah.
• 35:05
  But you were right there.
• 35:06
  Yeah.
• 35:07
  So I watched the whole story.
• 35:08
  Yeah.
• 35:09
  Right.
• 35:10
  I even screwed that story up.
• 35:11
  I had the same clip.
• 35:12
  Yes.
• 35:13
  I don't want to watch it because they don't like food fighters.
• 35:15
  They'll just grow Pat.
• 35:16
  Right.
• 35:17
  Who cares?
• 35:18
  But people are like, I don't want to do that.
• 35:19
  So I think like you're just saying, no, when you should be saying yes to a lot more things.
• 35:24
  And it's a personal thing.
• 35:25
  Like everyone's thing is going to be different.
• 35:26
  It's music.
• 35:27
  Like I would say my brother's a massive Dallas Cowboys fan, like probably one of the biggest
• 35:32
  feel for him.
• 35:33
  I feel for him.
• 35:34
  Right.
• 35:35
  But he doesn't put out context.
• 35:36
  So I'm trying to encourage him to.
• 35:37
  Oh, yeah.
• 35:38
  Put out content.
• 35:39
  It could be as simple as on Sunday, you're watching your team where you're with the
• 35:43
  jersey.
• 35:44
  You got your kids.
• 35:45
  You're like, do a clip then watching the TV or whatever or be like something about something
• 35:50
  about your personal thing, a little 15-second story about why is he a such a big Dallas Cowboys
• 35:55
  fan?
• 35:56
  Yeah.
• 35:57
  What's the history?
• 35:58
  But usually like my cousin is the same thing.
• 35:59
  And there's the whole story about America's team behind it.
• 36:01
  But why?
• 36:02
  Yeah, yeah.
• 36:03
  And that would be cool.
• 36:04
  And then you'll be how many other Dallas Cowboys fans are in your community?
• 36:07
  Hundreds, thousands.
• 36:08
  Too many.
• 36:09
  Right.
• 36:10
  How many of those people may be potential business partners or maybe potential clients?
• 36:12
  Right.
• 36:13
  You'll be surprised that that piece will be the connection.
• 36:14
  So they saw all your informational videos.
• 36:16
  They didn't necessarily engage with it, but they saw it.
• 36:19
  Well, that's another thing too.
• 36:20
  And then the Dallas Cowboys comes in and they DM you.
• 36:22
  So we didn't even get into this yet.
• 36:23
  But like, you know, the whole metrics, you know, and view counts and things like that.
• 36:28
  And people use that as a gauge, right, as oh, why didn't get any views or whatever and
• 36:33
  all that kind of stuff.
• 36:34
  And it's amazing how many people watch stuff and you don't even know it, right?
• 36:37
  Yeah.
• 36:38
  I saw that.
• 36:39
  They don't like and comment.
• 36:40
  And so you're thinking.
• 36:41
  That's a very important point that people are become stingy with the likes.
• 36:45
  Have you noticed that?
• 36:46
  Right.
• 36:47
  Stingy with the likes.
• 36:48
  I like that.
• 36:49
  I like that.
• 36:50
  Look at LinkedIn.
• 36:51
  You said you have 300 views.
• 36:52
  Yeah.
• 36:53
  Awesome piece of content.
• 36:54
  Yeah.
• 36:55
  Six likes.
• 36:56
  Why?
• 36:57
  Five likes.
• 36:58
  Uh-huh.
• 36:59
  You know why?
• 37:00
  Because people saw it.
• 37:01
  They liked it.
• 37:02
  They didn't hit the like button.
• 37:03
  Exactly.
• 37:04
  Because they're stingy with it.
• 37:05
  But they still liked it.
• 37:06
  Because they're scared to show people that they liked it.
• 37:07
  Or they're scared to put the comment down.
• 37:08
  Because someone else is going to see their comment.
• 37:09
  Many times like I've engaged with it.
• 37:11
  When I years ago, I would engage with something type of comment, almost hit post, but then
• 37:15
  delete it.
• 37:16
  Why?
• 37:17
  Because I didn't want other people to see my comment.
• 37:18
  It's the same reason why you don't want to do a selfie video because you're, you just
• 37:23
  don't want to put yourself out there.
• 37:24
  Open yourself up.
• 37:25
  Fear being judged.
• 37:26
  Yeah.
• 37:27
  Like, oh, someone's going to think that's dumb.
• 37:28
  So I delete my comment.
• 37:29
  Yeah.
• 37:30
  You know, and that's where people are like, they're just scared to engage with it.
• 37:32
  So, but they still saw they still watched it.
• 37:34
  Yeah.
• 37:35
  So I wouldn't get into the metrics because I think people are still seeing it.
• 37:39
  And another thing that I see people say is the algorithm sucks.
• 37:43
  Like, do you hear this?
• 37:44
  What is your advice to people like that?
• 37:47
  Well, it's not about the algorithm, man.
• 37:50
  It's about, you know, and there are ways to kind of game the algorithm to a degree, but
• 37:55
  I think if you're overly focused on that, that's the wrong focus.
• 37:58
  The focus is on, right?
• 38:00
  How can I build a community, add value and create engagement?
• 38:03
  That's it.
• 38:04
  If you do that, everything takes care of itself.
• 38:06
  Yeah.
• 38:07
  Just focus on putting out good content.
• 38:09
  And then I think consistency.
• 38:11
  Yeah.
• 38:12
  That's a great point.
• 38:13
  So the algorithm has deteriorated.
• 38:15
  Everybody says it.
• 38:16
  What's always changing?
• 38:17
  First of all?
• 38:18
  Yeah.
• 38:19
  You know what I mean?
• 38:20
  So your organic reaches down.
• 38:21
  Yeah.
• 38:22
  LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, whatever, LinkedIn is better, but still we're only getting
• 38:27
  certain number of impressions or views per piece of content.
• 38:31
  So instead of crying that the algorithm says, now I'm only getting a, I used to get 800
• 38:35
  now.
• 38:36
  I'm getting 200 or 100 views on this one piece of content.
• 38:40
  Why not just do eight this week or 10 to you'll still reach the audience you wanted to,
• 38:46
  but you just need to do more, you need to be more consistent.
• 38:48
  Yeah.
• 38:49
  So you just have to put out more content.
• 38:50
  That's the one thing you can't control the algorithm.
• 38:52
  You can't control what people do, but you can control your consistency.
• 38:54
  Right.
• 38:55
  So if you put out more content consistently, you'll still reach the same people.
• 38:58
  Well, people, by the way, that's one of the ways you, you know, game the algorithm
• 39:01
  is consistency.
• 39:02
  It's what it's looking for.
• 39:03
  Yeah.
• 39:05
  It's what gives it signs of life that there's actually relevancy and reason see there.
• 39:09
  Exactly.
• 39:10
  So like over the years of you interviewing people and you've seen like the whole spectrum,
• 39:16
  right?
• 39:17
  And is it mortgage and real estate?
• 39:18
  Right.
• 39:19
  Yeah.
• 39:20
  Yeah.
• 39:21
  I've mixed it up mortgage real estate and some others.
• 39:22
  Yeah.
• 39:23
  Okay.
• 39:24
  So like what is the most impactful advice that you could give because that's the audience
• 39:27
  for the most part is other originators and other real estate salespeople.
• 39:32
  So like what, you know, somebody's just getting, they just found this, right?
• 39:35
  And they're like, okay, I need to get going because that's the number one thing is like,
• 39:39
  how do I get started?
• 39:40
  How do I get going with this stuff?
• 39:41
  Like what should I do?
• 39:42
  Well, I think they heard some ideas on how to get started here today in terms of like
• 39:45
  just sharing your life and all that kind of stuff.
• 39:47
  Like we've heard Gary saying the past, hey, your life is content.
• 39:49
  Yeah.
• 39:50
  And I know people are reluctant to share that because they think their life's boring.
• 39:53
  And you know what?
• 39:55
  There's this whole voyeurism thing.
• 39:56
  That's why people like to watch other people like what we think is boring.
• 39:59
  People actually get some kind of benefit.
• 40:02
  They're not out of watching that.
• 40:04
  So how to get started I think is, it's tough obviously because we're also busy.
• 40:09
  And I think the challenge is is that if you're going to be serious about creating a presence
• 40:15
  online, it can't be off the cuff, it can't be when I think of it because I tried that
• 40:20
  for a while and that's why I wasn't consistent.
• 40:24
  So I think there are opportunities for you to do stuff in the moment for sure.
• 40:27
  That's part of it.
• 40:29
  But however, if you're in a business, you need a plan and you need, I believe you need
• 40:33
  a content calendar that's, I hate to sound and says that all that, but I mean the truth
• 40:37
  is a matter.
• 40:38
  You need a structure of what days of the week map it out, what days of the week are you
• 40:41
  going to post, what's the topics going to be, maybe have a theme, maybe, you know, depending
• 40:47
  on where you're at, if you want to have a show, have a show.
• 40:50
  But really there's so many things around you that you could do like real estate ages and
• 40:53
  lenders.
• 40:54
  I mean, when I teach the branding crafts classes to real estate agents, it's, I give them
• 40:58
  all these examples and show them real estate agents doing this.
• 41:01
  A couple that come to mind are like, you know, hey, the top top top five dog parks in your
• 41:05
  town, the top five kid friendly dog parks, how about the six best places to hike at just
• 41:09
  outside of Vegas?
• 41:10
  You know what I mean?
• 41:11
  It's like, what are your interests?
• 41:13
  Here's a question.
• 41:14
  What do you enjoy doing that could lead to business?
• 41:18
  So the hiking realtor, right?
• 41:20
  Come up with that one day in the middle of the, how many people are here like hiking?
• 41:23
  Yeah.
• 41:24
  Hey, how many people here like drinking, right?
• 41:25
  Yeah.
• 41:26
  Who here likes wine and beer?
• 41:27
  All the hands go up.
• 41:28
  And I'm like, great.
• 41:29
  Do you guys have friggin pub crawls?
• 41:30
  Do you have wine tasting?
• 41:31
  Do you have all that?
• 41:32
  That's the content that you should be documenting.
• 41:34
  Do what you already love to do and find fun and just start documenting it.
• 41:38
  And by the way, when you do that, it's going to come across as authentic because you're telling
• 41:42
  the truth.
• 41:43
  Yeah.
• 41:44
  I really like back to the foo fighters thing, you know?
• 41:45
  My studio where I used to live here in Vegas, the backdrop was I had like six different
• 41:49
  albums that are rotated on there all the time of albums that I was into and love the
• 41:53
  bands.
• 41:54
  You know what I mean?
• 41:55
  That connected with people.
• 41:56
  Right.
• 41:57
  So did you play, by the way, did you, did you play in bands, like did you play music?
• 42:01
  Or you?
• 42:02
  High school band, man.
• 42:03
  I'm a struggling closet guitar player.
• 42:05
  Let's put it that way.
• 42:06
  Okay.
• 42:07
  Who puts building my business above playing guitar right now?
• 42:10
  Yeah.
• 42:11
  I used to play drums.
• 42:12
  Oh yeah.
• 42:13
  Yeah.
• 42:14
  And I don't, I gave it up just because of all this stuff.
• 42:15
  If you don't use it, man, you lose it.
• 42:17
  That's right.
• 42:18
  So we got to put together some kind of, some kind of, yeah, that'll be a good piece
• 42:21
  of content.
• 42:22
  Yeah.
• 42:23
  The mortgage maniacs or something.
• 42:24
  Yeah.
• 42:25
  That's good.
• 42:26
  I like that.
• 42:27
  We're going to court punk.
• 42:28
  Yeah.
• 42:29
  We're going to corporate that in the classes.
• 42:30
  But you're, you're spot on like with the advice about sharing stuff about your interests
• 42:33
  because that's where I found gold is people will DM you based on that.
• 42:39
  Yeah.
• 42:40
  And they are more comfortable to DM you on that than they are on the, um, the business
• 42:44
  content.
• 42:45
  Yeah.
• 42:46
  So you don't worry about the engagement and a lot of things that you don't see publicly
• 42:49
  vanity wise is the DMs because people like I, to my point earlier, they're not comfortable
• 42:55
  leaving a public comment.
• 42:56
  Right.
• 42:57
  But they would like to have a private conversation with you.
• 42:59
  So I get DMs of comments and I'm like, Hey, I wish you would put that on the post because
• 43:03
  then I would get more engagement, you know, but they DM it to you.
• 43:06
  That's fine.
• 43:07
  You just want some conversation.
• 43:08
  So if the conversation starts with, that was a great, like, how was the concert?
• 43:13
  And then you just casually have a conversation, right?
• 43:15
  You'll be surprised how two weeks later, Hey, Jeff, by the way, my sister needs a
• 43:21
  Refi.
• 43:22
  Um, do you know, could you, would you be, would you have time to help her?
• 43:25
  Right.
• 43:26
  Exactly.
• 43:27
  I got time.
• 43:28
  Yeah.
• 43:29
  Yeah.
• 43:30
  That's the cause that you get the most respectful things and the thing is, as a mortgage
• 43:34
  originator, some times you're used to being shit on, right?
• 43:37
  Yeah.
• 43:38
  People treat you like shit.
• 43:39
  You know, I can't need this approval now.
• 43:40
  Right.
• 43:41
  And you didn't close on time.
• 43:42
  Screw you.
• 43:43
  I'll never use you again.
• 43:44
  Yeah.
• 43:45
  Or I pre-proved this guy who worked with him for three months, uh, he's in in contract
• 43:49
  right now.
• 43:50
  Hey, by the way, I saw this raid online, um, I'm going to go with them if you don't match
• 43:53
  it.
• 43:54
  Like, what about our, our conversations on Saturdays and Sundays and like, what about
• 43:58
  all that?
• 43:59
  And they're like, you know, yes, what you're thinking, right?
• 44:01
  But it cuts you a little bit.
• 44:02
  And you're like, damn, dude, I spent so much time with this.
• 44:04
  I went above and beyond and now he just views me as a service provider.
• 44:08
  And, um, so this was the way to turn that all around because when you reach out to
• 44:13
  me because you liked my content or you got some value from me, you're not shopping
• 44:17
  as much.
• 44:18
  You know what I mean?
• 44:19
  Like you're more, like you want to work with one person, you don't want to just shop
• 44:23
  online.
• 44:24
  Yeah.
• 44:25
  Well, there's a lot in there in that statement.
• 44:26
  You said about how to, how to mitigate that, not have that happen as often.
• 44:29
  Um, and, and to your point, I think what you're trying to illustrate is that if you have built
• 44:33
  up a presence or awareness with content that demonstrates yourself as a thought leader,
• 44:39
  global expert, right?
• 44:40
  In mortgage per se or real estate that versus what most people do is they have no point
• 44:44
  at differentiation.
• 44:45
  They're just doing the same old same old quote, quote, quote, and rates and this and that.
• 44:49
  Well, there's not much compelling reason for me to not challenge you on that, right?
• 44:53
  Because you haven't done anything out of the ordinary that I can get from almost anywhere
• 44:57
  else.
• 44:58
  So of course, I'm going to challenge you on that.
• 44:59
  But if you've done an incredible job of positioning yourself of, of right, like really, you know,
• 45:03
  your whole sales process and all that kind of jazz and really just educated, you know,
• 45:07
  I mean, all that stuff that we know we should do, we've heard about for years, but we
• 45:10
  aren't doing yet.
• 45:11
  Yeah.
• 45:12
  If you do more of that as well, um, then you're going to reduce those, those, uh, situations.
• 45:17
  Yeah.
• 45:18
  And same thing on the real estate side, like they're getting grinded on commission, uh,
• 45:21
  you know, all these guys are coming in the red fins and the like, they're cutting the
• 45:25
  list price, uh, the commission stuff until counters disruptors.
• 45:29
  So margins are coming in.
• 45:31
  And the only way to combat that is to provide more value.
• 45:34
  Yeah.
• 45:35
  Just think like you'll just get those conversations will happen less often if you have provided
• 45:42
  more value up front.
• 45:43
  Well, so somebody, somebody asked me, uh, the other day, you know, uh, I think it was
• 45:47
  Phil actually, uh, what, what's different about originating alone today versus in 2003,
• 45:53
  you know, and I mean, a lot of different answers to that.
• 45:55
  But the bottom line is it's, it's a, it's a lot more noisy.
• 45:58
  It's a lot more competitive.
• 45:59
  It's a lot harder to, uh, create a different point of differentiation, uh, which brings us
• 46:04
  back.
• 46:05
  I think front and center door conversation is, you know, content, right?
• 46:08
  That's how you're going to be able to create a point of differentiation is the content
• 46:11
  that you put out there that lifts you up, um, and differentiate you from, you know, anybody
• 46:16
  else out there.
• 46:17
  Yeah.
• 46:18
  For sure.
• 46:19
  Well, uh, I think we covered a lot of stuff.
• 46:20
  I think, yeah.
• 46:21
  We did a lot.
• 46:22
  Yeah.
• 46:23
  It was a little bit scattered.
• 46:24
  But I think there's a lot of good stuff in there.
• 46:25
  Yeah.
• 46:26
  For sure.
• 46:27
  I'm glad we did this.
• 46:28
  Finally.
• 46:29
  Yeah.
• 46:30
  Thank you so much for doing it.
• 46:31
  Awesome.
• 46:32
  Glad you come down to my neck of the woods.
• 46:33
  So I can't thank Neil enough for teaming up and doing this.
• 46:35
  It's been a long time coming.
• 46:36
  I'm glad we could do it.
• 46:38
  And you know what to do if you like this episode.
• 46:39
  Hey, leave us a review.
• 46:40
  Appreciate you.
• 46:41
  And we'll see you on the next one.
• 46:43
  Bye for now.
• 46:44
  Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio.
• 46:47
  One more truth in Mortgage Marketing, get more free training and resources at Mortgage
• 46:53
  Marketing Institute dot com.
• 47:03
  Hey, guys, what's up real quick?
• 47:11
  You've heard about the Mortgage Marketing Pro membership before and I just want to quickly
• 47:15
  remind you of that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased
• 47:19
  loans.
• 47:20
  You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business.
• 47:22
  Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase
• 47:27
  business for you.
• 47:28
  Well, good news.
• 47:29
  Our Mortgage Marketing Pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans without
• 47:33
  the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling done for you agent classes, expert training
• 47:39
  videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you, everything
• 47:44
  you need to build your personal brand in your local market, attract and convert agents
• 47:48
  into referral partners.
• 47:50
  Plus done for you proven marketing materials and plug and play content to make promoting
• 47:55
  your class, getting agents, butts and seats, partnering with affiliates, real easy.
• 48:00
  But that's not all.
• 48:01
  You'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls with top LOs, authors, speakers and
• 48:07
  coaches to learn the best strategies to grow your business right now in today's market.
• 48:13
  And as an extra bonus for limited time for all new members, you'll get access to a database
• 48:19
  of 200 agents in your local market that have closed anywhere to from eight to 50 transactions
• 48:25
  in the last 12 months and we'll provide that list uploaded into our platform for you so
• 48:30
  you can get off to a fast start in reaching actually productive agents.
• 48:34
  So what are you waiting for?
• 48:35
  You can check out more at mortgagedmarketing.pro, see more of the success stories there.
• 48:40
  And if you feel compelled to do so, book a call, we'll have a chat, we'll see if it's
• 48:44
  a fit.
• 48:45
  Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your mortgage business to the next level right
• 48:48
  now.
• 48:49
  Head over to mortgagedmarketing.pro.