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Codependency in Recovery: Boundaries, Dating Apps, and Emotional Sobriety · Recovering Out Loud

0:00
Even dating like these apps, they're out of control, like
0:03
they are truly out of. Control, it's been a while.
0:05
What's like the newest one now? Is it Hinge?
0:07
Is it? I don't know man Hinge, Bumble,
0:10
Tumble, Tinder, like what? I have the weirdest names.
0:14
I heard that you can sort by astrology, astrology signs now
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and people do that and. Listen, man, I don't know, I I
0:22
joined and it's like, it's like sensory overload, right?
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Like you got to scroll through pictures and like you have to
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sell yourself like pick me. This is why you should pick me
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and you know, I had to delete the apps because it was
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honestly, it was affecting me in such a negative way where I
0:43
would, I would start to say to myself, what's wrong with me?
0:46
How come nobody wants me those old patterns, right?
0:48
I'm not good enough. I'm not pretty enough.
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I'm fat. I'm, it's just like, you know,
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and I was telling my therapist, my best friend and I had to
0:56
delete the apps because it was just like, this is nonsense.
1:00
You know, I, I know tons of people that have found their
1:03
person and that's great. I I hate you.
1:30
What a great day I have. I'm I'm looking forward to
1:32
today. I woke up this morning, woke up
1:35
to a nice beautiful text message from my good friend who said,
1:38
hey, do you want to speak tonight?
1:41
And my first response in my head was like, well, I have to go, so
1:44
how do I get out of this? And then my second response was
1:47
like, that's kind of rude that he's asking me so last minute.
1:49
And then I read the second part of the text message and it said
1:53
the speaker's sick. And then my third thought was
1:56
what a beautiful gift that I get to be of service in recovery.
1:59
So you know all about that. People ask you to speak all the
2:02
time and people for anyone that wants to know Caitlin Moore, you
2:09
did a episode with me. I don't know what when was that?
2:14
Last year I think. It was in.
2:15
The summer, yeah. And that's how we met and became
2:17
friends. And that's a cool story.
2:18
But if you want to hear more about your story that is on that
2:21
episode today, we're going to talk about relationships and
2:26
like, I guess getting current as well for you, and I mean, me as
2:31
well, like codependency, 'cause this stuff is, is rampant in
2:34
recovery. So like, how long have you been
2:36
in recovery now? So I've been sober 11 April 30th
2:41
will be 11 years. Nice.
2:43
Eleven years. In and out of this program for
2:46
like 20 years. And so you've been you've you've
2:50
had an A lot, you've had more time sober than than high.
2:54
Would you agree with that or close to almost?
2:58
You're almost. There.
2:59
Yeah, well, 12 to 26, so almost. Was when you were using and, and
3:06
so you've had a lot of experience with feelings and
3:09
emotional sobriety. And let let let's start with
3:12
this. What is what is like?
3:14
What does emotional sobriety mean to you today?
3:17
So it's funny you ask 'cause I actually went to a treatment
3:21
center, or a program rather, for codependency in September.
3:27
And that's one of the things. Just went to.
3:29
It yeah in September, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So like it was super cool and part of me was kind of like, why
3:34
am I going like I'm single, I'm not in a relationship.
3:38
So you know, like how am I codependent?
3:40
But it was so crazy what I learned.
3:43
And the, so there's getting sober, right?
3:46
We're we're covered or we're, we're in recovery.
3:48
And then the emotional sobriety for me is just kind of like that
3:52
consistency piece, like the emotional awareness, the
3:56
emotional regulation, the, you know, your, your nervous system
4:00
being regulated. I think like I lived most of my
4:03
life in fighter light and even in early recovery I was just
4:06
like, well, I would say probably 75% of my recovery I was go, go,
4:11
go, never stopping. It was always for someone else,
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whether you know, it was one of my partners or a sponsee or, you
4:20
know, my job, like I just always kind of lived my life for
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someone else. Almost.
4:26
Exactly. But there's service and then
4:29
there's just kind of being selfish, right?
4:31
Because I was taking away from time with myself.
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I was taking away time from being with family because I was
4:37
going to do service or I was going to speak at a meeting,
4:40
which is great. And I'm, I will always say yes.
4:43
But I think, you know, the one thing I learned in this program
4:48
was about boundaries, right? That buzzword that everybody
4:51
talks about, but you don't realize that, you know, we
4:54
learned about like boundaries with time.
4:57
I'm like, you know, known for being late for everything.
5:02
And that's something that I really had to look at because
5:04
they didn't realize, right? Instead of like saying no or
5:08
saying yes, I'll be there at that time and keeping my word.
5:11
I, I show up late. And then, you know, we talked
5:15
about like sexual boundaries, which was like a really big
5:18
thing because, you know, I mean, like we talked in, in your last
5:22
episode or the, my last episode with you about the trafficking
5:27
and the abuse and, and all of that, right?
5:28
Like my history with sex and my history with relationships, like
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intimate relationships was so unhealthy because I was just
5:38
like, I was just a people pleaser, you know, and it wasn't
5:41
just like sax, but it was like, I'll do this for you.
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What can I buy for you? What can I do for you?
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How can I make you love me, right?
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And, and I think that's what I'm learning today about that
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codependency piece and, and, you know, allowing myself like time
5:58
to heal from all of it, you know, because like, you know,
6:02
I'm going to therapy and I'm working through all this stuff
6:04
that I thought I dealt with and most certainly did not because
6:08
we just kind of like push it down, right?
6:10
Like being sober and accumulating time is great, but
6:15
it's more so the like quality. And I would say over the the
6:20
last year since I, I separated from my husband, you know, just
6:24
learning things about myself, that fear of being alone, that
6:28
fear of never finding anybody or no ones ever going to love me
6:32
because I'm broken. You know, like just telling
6:35
myself all of these lies or the best that I need to find someone
6:40
else to make me happy, to be whole.
6:42
Exactly. And, you know, and of course
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everybody wants to be in a loving relationship and have
6:49
everything be great, but I think spending this time with myself
6:55
and learning about what do I like and what I don't like and,
6:59
you know, dealing with my patterns of behavior from
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previous relationships, Like it's really intense when you
7:06
actually sit down and you look at it, you know, 'cause I mean
7:10
like we're going back to like childhood, right?
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I'm so familiar with chaos, you know, and not even in like the
7:16
using and drugs and alcohol in that kind of way, but just, I
7:20
know what like I pick these people that are familiar for me,
7:24
right? I like, I'll use an example.
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I, I absolutely love my dad. Like we have such a great
7:30
relationship today and my mom, she passed away.
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But you know, again, such a good person, 2 very good people.
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But my childhood was there. My father was really absent and
7:43
you know, no fault of his own. He was working in another
7:45
country to support his family. But like, that's kind of what
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was familiar for me, you know, So I would chase and chase and
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chase and I needed him to be proud of me.
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And I, I wanted his attention and I wanted him to love me.
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And, you know, I would do anything to get that.
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And it's almost like that pattern has carried through my
8:03
whole life. You know, I, I think in
8:06
recovery, I've been in two relationships and both, you
8:12
know, not, not bad people at all, but we definitely were not
8:16
compatible. I think that, you know, when,
8:20
when we're in a relationship, when I'm in a relationship, I
8:24
used to think, Oh my God, I just wasted this amount of time.
8:27
I just wasted, you know, my 20s, I just wasted my 30s.
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I'm 37 now. You know, my, my time is ticking
8:33
like we were talking about, but I think that every relationship
8:38
is, is worth something in that moment, in that time.
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Like I, I learned a lot from my last relationship.
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I learned a lot and you know, and I'm grateful and I wouldn't
8:49
change any of it. I'm, you know, like he had a
8:51
great family and I made a lot of friends.
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Like it's, there were a lot of good memories and good things
8:57
that happened, but I also got to learn a lot about myself.
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I don't think I had necessarily enough healing time between
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relationships because my ex before that, I think like it
9:10
wasn't, it wasn't very long, you know, like I didn't have enough
9:12
time to really kind of sit down and like grieve because that's
9:16
what you have to do, right? Like you got to feel
9:18
uncomfortable. Change happens when we're
9:20
uncomfortable. And I went from one relationship
9:22
to the next because it's scary to be alone.
9:26
It's like it's, it's really scary sometimes.
9:30
And, you know, and I and I don't think that that's bad.
9:33
I think there is a healthy amount of fear that we have to
9:35
feel. Yeah.
9:38
I did a whole podcast episode on this yesterday because I I like
9:41
being alone, but I'm a, an extroverted person.
9:44
And so I was doing some research about it and the word solitude
9:47
came up and I hadn't really heard that word for a while, but
9:50
it was essentially being alone without feeling lonely.
9:54
And so there's moments you mentioned self-care as well.
9:57
You mentioned a lot of good things there, but there's
9:59
moments where I can practice self-care or I can be selfish
10:03
and I'm self obsessed and I'm thinking, you know, being
10:06
selfless is thinking of yourself less, right?
10:08
And so I was having a moment yesterday when when you called
10:11
me and this is again, how God works for me when I can't work
10:13
for myself. It's like I didn't feel like
10:15
calling anyone getting out of it because I snort self pity like a
10:18
drug. I do like, I love it.
10:20
It's, it's if I'm in self pity and again, I'm repeating myself
10:23
because I did an episode on this yesterday, so it's fresh.
10:25
But if I'm in self pity, it means that I don't have to
10:28
change anything because it's not my fault and I'm, I'm the
10:30
victim. I can play the victim card.
10:31
And you know, don't you feel, don't you see I'm working hard
10:34
and I'm not getting the results that I want or me exactly.
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But there's a difference between self-care, like you said, and,
10:40
and just like sitting in your shit and being miserable and
10:44
hoping that somebody will come save yourself, save the day.
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So when, you know, I had three people called me yesterday and
10:50
got me out of it. I went for a walk and I got out
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of it, but I want to ask where, where did the sort of red flag
10:57
come up or flag come up where you're like, I need to work on
11:00
this again? Like how does that so people can
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understand? Because you mentioned emotional
11:04
sobriety. If I'm not aware of my emotions,
11:06
they'll run my whole life. So that's a great question and
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it's such a loaded question because and I just want to also
11:13
say like I am no expert. I'm just the expert of my own
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story and kind of like my journey because even right now,
11:20
and I'll, I'll get back to your question.
11:22
Like I, I learn what healthy relationships look like through
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other people, right? Like my aunt and uncle, fabulous
11:30
healthy relationship. I know it's possible, right?
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Like I see them, they've been married for so long, they have
11:36
open communication. They, you know, disagree with
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one another respectfully. They're loving, they have an
11:42
exciting life, right? They do.
11:44
Things. They do things together and even
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if it like, you know, at the end of the like, I just spent a week
11:48
up north with my family and like, it's just, it's so crazy
11:53
that these simple little things like the end of the day, we
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would watch a show together, You know, we're doing absolutely
11:58
nothing, but we're doing everything.
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You know, those are the moments that I just absolutely love that
12:05
doesn't need to be replaced with a partner or the love of my
12:08
life. I spent time with family and
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that was enough for me, you know, But to get back to your
12:15
question, Yeah, So I, I think it, I think it was a lot of
12:20
different things. But I think the biggest thing
12:23
for me last year before I went to this program as a friend of
12:27
mine had actually gone to the program and he said, I learned a
12:31
lot and you need to go. And I was like, thanks, buddy.
12:36
That's great voluntary. But at the end of the day, it,
12:40
it's like this, right? I'm bored and I want to download
12:43
a dating app just to kind of see, right, I'm bored and I want
12:47
to like reach out to somebody that I used to talk to.
12:50
And it's like, for what, you know, like what, Like what is
12:54
coming from that? Absolutely nothing, except for
12:57
the pain, you know? It's like an itch that needs to
13:00
get scratched. Yeah, like just sit by myself
13:04
and do nothing, right? I'm like, I've been conditioned
13:10
to always need somebody and like I'm a very independent person.
13:15
I do everything myself. I.
13:16
Rarely. Reach out and ask.
13:18
Fire and furniture. You know, I just carried this.
13:22
I bought this like vanity off marketplace.
13:25
You love Marketplace I. Fucking love it and I carried it
13:29
up the stairs myself. This was like 120 lbs anyways,
13:34
but we digressed here. My point is that I know that I
13:37
am capable of doing things myself and that's kind of my
13:41
problem sometimes. And and like I don't think my
13:46
problem is going to be finding my person or finding someone to
13:50
spend my life with or however you want to phrase that, my soul
13:53
mate. I think I need to start reaching
13:57
out to the people I already have.
13:59
So you know, I've moved a couple times and we call it my moving
14:02
crew, right? Like I got a good solid couple
14:04
people that have helped me move like 3 times.
14:07
But we show up for each other, right?
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Like we genuinely show up and I am, I saw this video this
14:13
morning where somebody was like, you know, reach out to me
14:16
anytime. Like I'll be there in a
14:17
heartbeat. And that's me.
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And then the person was like, yeah, same.
14:20
And then the the person goes no, no, no, no, it's fine.
14:24
I can do it myself. It's different, right?
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I'm going to be a burden to you. And that's exactly how I felt my
14:29
whole life. I will show up no questions
14:32
asked. It does not matter what time of
14:34
day it is to help somebody. But when it comes to me, it's
14:38
different. And that's the problem, right?
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And that's when I realized that everything, I had no problem
14:46
showing up for everybody else. It didn't even matter who you
14:48
were really. Could be, you know, somebody new
14:51
in the program. It could be like a family
14:54
member, an ex, a friend. I'm there, I'm I'm willing to
14:59
help you like above and beyond. But you know, last September
15:03
when I had kind of realized, like I, I am not so good with
15:08
boundaries, right? Like I want to do everything.
15:11
I want to help everyone. We joke about it in meetings and
15:15
stuff, but like there's a room full of 100 people and 99 people
15:19
are like Caitlin Anthony, you guys are the dopest people I've
15:23
ever met. But there's one person that's
15:24
like, absolutely not. They're terrible people.
15:27
I hate them. I'm set on that one person and
15:31
I, I become obsessive. What did I do?
15:33
What's wrong with me? Right?
15:35
Even today, it's like, I know we joke around all the time, like
15:37
why don't I have a boyfriend? What's wrong with me?
15:39
And it's like, it's just not, it's not the right time, you
15:43
know? And like I look at my single
15:45
friends and you know, my best friend and she's like genuinely
15:48
happy. She loves her life.
15:50
She she bought a house not that long, like a couple years ago,
15:53
which got, you know, like she is content being alone.
15:58
And like, I love that that is attractive to me, me, you know,
16:02
because I've been so against it for so long because of that
16:05
fear, right? Like I need you to tell me I'm
16:07
pretty. I need you to tell me I'm good
16:09
enough because I didn't know how to do those things for myself.
16:12
And today, right, like I'm not perfect.
16:14
I'd be lying. Like we joke all the time about
16:17
like, when am I going to find my person?
16:19
And, and like it, it's going to happen, right?
16:23
It's that having that faith. And you know what you you texted
16:28
me the other day about, you know, being that person.
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Do you know what I mean? Like being the version of
16:35
yourself. And I think I have not been the
16:39
version of myself that I need to be to show up in a healthy
16:43
relationship. I'm exactly yet and like, that's
16:49
totally OK, you know, and it's OK to like feel sad and it's OK
16:53
to feel, you know, like lonely. But these are healthy feelings.
16:57
You know, you communicate with your support system.
17:00
But yeah, going back to this program, it was amazing.
17:03
I encourage everybody to go to this program.
17:05
It's like 6 days of intensive work.
17:08
When you say treatment like are you locked there?
17:10
Well, you're not locked, you're an adult, but willing to.
17:14
Do treatment. I'm just like, oh boy.
17:15
So yeah, there's like there's two sides.
17:17
So there's the like substance use program and then the
17:20
codependence. How much better did you feel on
17:22
the other? Side oh bro, like so, so good.
17:26
But you know what it's it's like it was cool though, because like
17:30
we had meetings that were joined as well.
17:32
And so you get to see both sides amazing and like, you know,
17:34
being like a double winner where I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
17:37
like, you know, I'm in sobriety or I'm in recovery from
17:41
substance use, but you know, like they would call us the
17:44
Cody's and I'd never heard that before.
17:46
I was like, what's a Cody? But I got to connect with other
17:51
women who were going through the exact same thing, but totally
17:55
different, you know, but that's the thing when we talk about in
17:58
meetings that all of the feelings are exactly the same,
18:01
when I start comparing myself to well, you know, I'm, I'm not in
18:05
a physically abusive relationship.
18:06
I'm not an, an emotionally abusive relationship anymore.
18:09
So why am I here? Like I remember on my first day,
18:12
I was listening to these beautiful women share their
18:15
feelings and their situations. And I I thought to myself, like,
18:18
why am I? I hear?
18:20
But you know, I stayed and we started working through it.
18:23
And I remember being in one of these groups.
18:25
Like I talked about boundaries, right?
18:28
And we started talking about like, you know, time management,
18:32
which, you know, I need to work on progress, not.
18:36
Being my time today. Yeah, Yeah, I was early.
18:39
I would just like to say that, you know, and like
18:43
relationships, whether it's intimate, personal, whatever.
18:47
And then the thing that really got me, and I kind of mentioned
18:50
this earlier, was the sexual boundaries, because that's kind
18:55
of where I had my aha moment and I had a full breakdown because
19:01
like we talk about it, but, you know, like boundaries,
19:03
boundaries, boundaries. Yeah, whatever.
19:06
They broke it down. And I remember sitting there
19:09
saying to myself, I don't think I've ever really enjoyed being
19:15
intimate with somebody because I've never been able to open up
19:22
emotionally and really connect on that level.
19:26
And that doesn't mean that like it, I didn't have fun.
19:29
Like, yes, I've had fun, but I mean, really connect with your
19:33
person. And I just remember sitting
19:35
there and having a breakdown because, you know, like I, I
19:38
lost my virginity to rape at a very young age and that kind of
19:42
set the tone for my life, right? And then the abuse, the
19:46
trafficking, you know, all the trauma.
19:48
And so I just kind of was like, as long as the other person is
19:51
happy, I'm happy. And that is so unhealthy.
19:55
You know, when I didn't realize that, I just thought I'm a
19:57
really nice person. So I'll take care of the other
20:00
person. I want to make sure they're
20:01
happy and all of their needs are mad and whatever you know,
20:05
whether it's cooking dinner, cleaning, pleasing like.
20:09
I I need to change who I am to suit the other person.
20:13
And so this program really just kind of kiboshed all of my old
20:20
ideas, my old ideas because I was like, wow, I really do
20:23
belong here, you know, and, and it turns out like, it's not just
20:26
like I said, intimate. No, yes, I'm single, but it's
20:29
family relationships, it's my sponsees, it's work, it's, you
20:34
know, like I'm on leave from work right now.
20:35
And that was like the scariest decision I've I've ever were
20:39
made because I was like, I'm going to get fired.
20:41
And you know, like, no, you're not going to get fired.
20:44
I'm not going to get fired for taking care of myself.
20:47
You know, like the separation was really hard and it took a
20:51
really big toll on me. And, you know, being able to set
20:55
that boundary at work and just say, like, I need to take some
20:58
time to heal and work on myself so I can continue to show up and
21:02
be the best version of myself at work, in a relationship, in my
21:07
friendships, at meetings. Like I cannot show up and do my
21:12
best if I am like barely treading water.
21:15
And also without masks too, right?
21:17
Like 'cause I can do like I just need to show up as Anthony,
21:19
Anthony, Anthony Anthony Anthony.
21:21
And that's a work in progress all the time.
21:23
Because yeah, I, I talk about this all the time.
21:24
The stage character that we present to people in our, in
21:27
different settings, you know, my, my friends, it's like I'm
21:30
all successful. I've got it going.
21:32
I'm making a lot of money at work, my recovery community.
21:34
It's, I'm working the program to the like.
21:37
I am member number one. I am doing this thing.
21:41
I am tapped in. I am of service.
21:43
I'm doing the best and I don't have problems, right?
21:46
Like I don't have issues. I don't I, you know, I don't
21:48
need to tell you about my problem.
21:49
That's all. I relapsed last time was, was
21:51
that state was presenting that that person in, in, in settings
21:54
where I was like, no, no, no, I'm good, right.
21:57
And so it comes back to, yeah, like authenticity.
22:00
And I mean, intimacy is is funny because a lot of people think
22:04
intimacy is just sexual, but it's not.
22:05
It's like, you know, you could just be sitting with someone.
22:08
And the way I understand it is just complete vulnerability.
22:12
Like there's. 1000%. No hiding.
22:14
No, there's. This is me.
22:15
All of me. Well, yeah, and there's sex.
22:17
OK, cool. But the intimacy, right?
22:20
Like that deep, honest conversation, being vulnerable,
22:24
being raw, being able to like share your soul with someone,
22:28
you know, like, I think for the longest time I was like so full
22:33
of shame because I really truly felt damaged.
22:37
You know, I was like, how is anyone going to love me?
22:39
Like I, you know, like all of the abuse that I've experienced
22:43
and all of the terrible things that I've done to other people
22:46
in my act of addiction, like I'm no good.
22:50
And so I think having the friendships that I do today,
22:55
we're, we're able to have that intimacy, those honest
22:59
conversations, you know, my friends hold me accountable.
23:03
And it's like the coolest thing ever, cuz we might like chirp
23:07
back and forth and be like whatever, you know?
23:10
And then we come back and it's, it's fine because we have a
23:13
healthy relationship, you know? And yeah, it's just, it's just
23:18
crazy. Like even dating, like these
23:21
apps, they're out of control. Like they are truly out of.
23:24
Control. It's been a while.
23:25
What's like the newest one now? Is it hinge?
23:27
Is it I? Don't know man Hinge, Bumble,
23:30
tumble, Tinder, like what? I have the weirdest names.
23:33
I heard that you can sort by astrology signs now and the
23:38
people do that and. Listen, man, I don't know, I I
23:42
joined and it's like, it's like sensory overload, right?
23:45
Like you got to scroll through pictures and like you have to
23:49
sell yourself like pick me. This is why you should pick me.
23:53
And you know, I had to delete the apps because it was
23:58
honestly, it was affecting me in such a negative way where I
24:02
would I would start to say to myself, what's wrong with me?
24:06
How come nobody wants me those old patterns, right?
24:08
I'm not good enough, I'm not pretty enough.
24:10
I'm fat. I'm that it's just like, you
24:12
know, and I was telling my therapist, my best friend and I
24:15
had to delete the apps because it was just like, this is
24:18
nonsense. You know, I, I know tons of
24:22
people that have found their person and that's great.
24:24
I I hate you, you know I. Know a guy, he got married one
24:30
of my good friends. They met on Tinder, yeah.
24:31
Absolutely. And and that's great, right.
24:34
But I think like I'm such an empath and I take things so
24:37
personally. It's like, how come they ever
24:40
responded in two days? Like what, what are you doing?
24:42
What? What are you that busy?
24:44
I need to change my profile picture because.
24:46
Don't you know that I respond immediately, which is terrible,
24:49
by the way. That is a terrible lack of
24:51
boundaries. You know, I, my phone lights up,
24:54
I see that they've texted me or someone's called me.
24:57
I stopped what I'm doing to pick up the phone and it's and it's
25:01
actually not healthy. I thought it was a great trade.
25:03
I was like, look at me, I'm on the ball.
25:05
And then you got to keep up with that, you know, like it catches
25:08
up with you. Then you start having
25:09
expectations of other people, right?
25:11
Exactly. You know this, but I'm the
25:12
opposite of that. And that's, this is something I
25:14
need to work on. But it's not just you, right?
25:16
I'm terrible with answering people.
25:18
And sometimes I, you know, I'll give the excuse that it's just
25:21
an excuse. I think that I answer on my
25:23
phone and then I look back and I didn't actually answer.
25:26
It's like, no, I just, I don't even know what it is.
25:28
And, and I do that too, right? Like, and the problem is, is
25:31
it's like I'm like a child, like out of sight, out of mind.
25:33
So once I've read your message and, and I forget to respond or
25:37
I'm like, oh, I'll do it later. Ends up being like one of my
25:40
best friends. And he calls me, he's like, you
25:41
never called me back. And I genuinely feel so bad,
25:44
right? So that's why I'm like, I see
25:46
it. I need to act now, but but yeah,
25:49
like, I don't know, it's it's hard.
25:52
These apps are just just too much do.
25:53
You have any good stories, like any crazy dates that you would?
25:56
Yeah. Can you share one?
25:59
Oh my God, Off the top of your head?
26:00
I'm putting you on the spot. Yeah, no, I can think of quite a
26:02
few. I mean, I was catfished like so
26:05
bad. Oh my God.
26:07
What is the purpose of that? I don't know cuz he didn't ask
26:09
me for money. He didn't ask me for like
26:12
anything at all. But he like refused to FaceTime
26:15
and I was just kind of like OK, whatever, right.
26:18
But then like we'd go to meet up and he would like cancel last
26:22
minute. Anyways, it turned out he like
26:24
stole some. There's AI don't know a gay guy
26:28
that lives in Chicago and his profile pictures, he took his
26:33
pictures and used them and I was like, what is the purpose of
26:36
this? So like when I finally found out
26:38
I was like, why did you do this? He's like, Oh, my friends just
26:41
dared me. And I was like, you know, you're
26:43
kind of messing with people's feelings, though, you know,
26:45
like, And so anyways, that one was kind of kind of sucky, not
26:49
so funny. But the other one, like, you
26:52
have to do this thing so people know you're a real person.
26:56
Like, OK, so they're like, yeah, like, let's set up a FaceTime.
27:00
And so I set up a FaceTime with with someone.
27:03
And he started like jerking off. And I was like, right.
27:06
Like he like licked his hand and put it down his pants.
27:08
For the company like you had to, you had to verify it with.
27:12
No, like you, you like when you match with someone just so you
27:15
know that you're like a real person.
27:17
Yeah. No, no, no.
27:18
And so we were like, let's FaceTime because we hit it off,
27:21
right? I was like, that chemistry,
27:23
right? The virtual chemistry was there.
27:25
And like we Facetimed and then he ended up like, yeah.
27:29
And I'm like, are you? He's like, yeah.
27:30
And I'm like, what? Like delete?
27:32
Like what is wrong with people you know and I?
27:36
Just I wonder if that ever works like I.
27:38
It must have worked one time. Anyways, The thing is like
27:41
people. Hide behind their screens, they
27:43
hide behind their iPads and their computers just, you know,
27:46
like matching with people and it's like the endless amount of
27:50
texting where like you just want to create a Word document saying
27:55
about me and like every time you.
27:57
Copy and paste just. Sending it out, it's.
28:00
It's it's emotionally exhausting.
28:01
And you know, and it's unfair because what happens is is you
28:05
you get all of these people that aren't serious or say like I
28:08
want a long term relationship or I want to get married or my life
28:11
partner and they really just want to get laid, which is cool.
28:13
Like you do you. I love that for you.
28:16
But like, don't say life partner, just say like, what's
28:19
up? Like, I want, I want to get
28:20
laid. Like, you know, because there
28:22
are other people like that. And then you get so exhausted
28:26
and you're so drained from these repetitive conversations that
28:29
you might match with someone that really is genuine.
28:33
But you you don't have the capacity anymore.
28:35
You're just so burnt out from these endless, stupid, bland
28:39
conversations that that go nowhere.
28:42
And then, you know, you just end up getting ghosted anyways.
28:45
And so, yeah, it's. Stressful time.
28:48
So I mean, deleting is probably the best thing.
28:50
I I had to do that with social media, as a lot of people know,
28:53
I'm married and my my wife and I met at work completely.
28:58
I would say, I would say, and I told you this and I told no one
29:02
ever wants to hear this, but it happened when I wasn't looking
29:05
for it. I remember I was doing the
29:07
dating app thing. I was the friend of a friend
29:10
thing. I did that.
29:11
And to your point, dating is, is actually an important part of
29:16
the process for me, it was because I went out with with
29:19
these girls before my wife where I was like, I definitely don't
29:22
want that. Like I would see these red flags
29:25
coming up and I was like, whoa, that like that reminds me too
29:28
much of like my mom when I was a kid, like nagging on me.
29:30
I don't want that. And then my wife comes in my
29:33
life and she's like the opposite of that and all these amazing
29:35
traits. And it just fucking happened.
29:37
Like I don't. And then we went through tragedy
29:39
together with in my addiction and, you know, her parents
29:42
dealing with stuff too and health concerns.
29:45
But like that shit brings you closer together for sure, is
29:48
what I'll say about that. But I guess yeah, it's it's
29:52
frustrating because it's easy for me to sit here and say like,
29:55
oh, just stop looking for it and it'll come.
29:57
Like, fuck you, man. I I wanna, I think that's our
30:01
one of our basic human desires is to just have like a partner,
30:04
right? To be with someone at the end of
30:05
the day. Yeah.
30:06
And to just enjoy that. But to so where are you at now
30:09
with this? Like, how did you kind of cross
30:11
over this line? Because I can see it.
30:12
I've heard it in you. We've talked about this all
30:14
week. You're on this like precipice of
30:17
crossing the line into fuck it. Like I'm just going to work on
30:20
myself. Yeah.
30:22
So I would say the beginning of this year, just like so depleted
30:28
and burnt out, like just, you know, work, a lot of stuff
30:31
happening at work and you know, I, I was just tired, like I
30:35
didn't have any energy left. I was completely exhausted and
30:39
burnt out and I was going 100 miles a minute.
30:43
And I just realized like I, I need to take some time off from
30:46
my job just from everything. Because if I don't do that, I
30:51
mean, we all know where that leads, right?
30:53
For me, I'm, I'm not so concerned about picking up.
30:56
Not to say that that's impossible because it is not
30:59
impossible, but it's more so I'm not good enough.
31:03
What's my purpose? I have no purpose, right?
31:06
Sort of emotional. Bottoms.
31:07
And that's exactly what was happening.
31:09
I didn't see my purpose outside of my job.
31:12
I just was, you know, Caitlin, the human trafficking worker,
31:17
like, you know, like I and that's great.
31:19
And I love my job, like I absolutely love it.
31:23
But I was so burnt out because I, I just was doing everything.
31:27
Everything was about everybody else.
31:29
And I kind of forgot about myself and I didn't even really
31:33
know, like, do people go out after work?
31:36
Because when I finish work, I want to go home and lay on my
31:38
couch and watch Netflix because I'm, I'm tired, you know, I'm so
31:43
tired. And I wasn't able to show up for
31:47
friends and family and all this stuff because it was just like,
31:49
work, work, work, work, work. And yeah, I don't know, like
31:58
it's, it's hard realizing that you live your life and you think
32:07
that you're doing it the right way.
32:09
And then you kind of realize not, not that it's like right or
32:13
wrong, but that like, I haven't really been myself.
32:18
It's always been about other people.
32:20
And I, I firmly believe that, you know, my last relationship I
32:25
had brought into my marriage, like all of those feelings, all
32:28
of that trauma, all of the, you know, my, my insecurities and my
32:32
low self esteem. I brought that with me into, you
32:36
know, my, my relationship, my next relationship.
32:39
And, and I definitely think that that had an effect, you know,
32:44
and I just think today when I'm ready, I think like you said,
32:50
and it sucks because it's like, all right, well, almost over
32:53
ago. So like, can you just like map
32:54
this out for me and tell me how long it's going to take?
32:59
You know, but but I think like when it's supposed to happen,
33:02
like it will happen. And like, do I fully believe
33:06
that? Not really.
33:07
But they say fake it till you make it.
33:09
So like, here we are, you know? And back to that point of, of
33:15
what I texted you and I don't know where that came from.
33:16
That was God for sure. Because like I, I don't know, it
33:19
just came out of my brain where it was like I need to be that
33:24
version of myself that's ready for that person when he comes in
33:28
the coffee. I just for some reason, I
33:29
picture you at a Starbucks and this like beautiful blonde tall
33:32
guy walking by and just like looking at you And you're ready
33:36
in that moment because you're first of all, nodding your head
33:40
about it. You're aware of the situation.
33:42
This all comes back to, to, to like meditation and like
33:45
emotional sobriety, just being quiet in your mind most of the
33:49
time and not all the time, but so that when you're at the
33:52
Starbucks, guy walks by, you're just, you're just attuned to it.
33:56
Like you're connected to yourself and your, your
33:58
intuition is just there where you're like, huh, this kind of
34:01
feels interesting. And there's like a you can kind
34:03
of almost feel it and see it, but if you're in your head,
34:06
you're you're not. Well, and like, what do I have
34:09
to offer when I'm burnt out and exhausted?
34:11
Like laying on my couch in my sweatpants, you know, like which
34:15
I mean, I'm going to do that forever because I love
34:17
sweatpants and I love laying on my couch.
34:19
But my point is like when I'm barely able to take care of
34:23
myself and, and you know, these people keep coming my way and
34:27
it's the universe being like, say no, like say no.
34:31
And I'm like, oh look, it's a sign from God.
34:33
This person is like, I'm like, it's crazy because it's that
34:38
need, right? It's me hoping and praying that
34:40
like this is finally the person. And that's the problem, right?
34:44
I need to keep focusing on myself and focusing on my goals
34:48
and like getting better so that when the time presents itself,
34:51
I'm actually ready. Yeah, and then there's a whole
34:58
host of problems that comes with relationships too.
35:01
Yeah, like I want to be with someone where we can like have
35:04
fun and watch a movie, but then you can like go home and like,
35:08
and then we'll like talk again. I.
35:10
Feel like there's an app for that.
35:11
I don't know, watch a movie with someone.
35:16
No, but yeah, I mean, relationships are hard.
35:18
Friendships are hard. Like everything is, is complex
35:22
and complicated, but you know, you need to be willing to go
35:26
through all of it. You know, like you shared about,
35:28
you know, some stuff in your relationship, but like your,
35:32
your wife literally stood by you, you know, and like, I think
35:35
at the end of the day, when you found someone that you're like,
35:38
no, no, no, no, like I love you, I love all of you.
35:41
Doesn't mean that I'm going to put up with all of your
35:44
bullshit, but they hold you accountable and yeah, they
35:49
support you because that's what you do in a relationship.
35:51
But it it goes both ways, right? Like the support, the love, the
35:55
compassion has to go both ways or else it's not a relationship.
35:58
Yeah, I, I, I can't remember the word.
36:00
It's such a simple word, but like when you adapt, like
36:03
marriage is about. I was thinking about this the
36:05
other day too. My word recall these days is is
36:08
not. You get an old buddy.
36:09
Yeah, I guess so you adapt to. It's like another word for.
36:14
It you acclimate. You acclimate.
36:16
Yeah, it's along the same lines, but it's OK.
36:19
I'll remember it driving to a meeting tonight.
36:21
Wow. But yeah, it's like there's
36:23
times where it's gonna be inconvenient and being in
36:26
recovery too, I've just being able to be aware of of that is
36:31
such a gift to where it's like, oh, I really don't like this
36:33
right now. And I feel like my wife's
36:35
winning. Like like that's what it
36:37
sometimes ego reduces it to that like me versus you, I my I'm
36:42
going to win. You know, I'm winning, she's
36:43
winning. And and I can't tell you, it's
36:46
like the most freeing feeling when you're just surrendered to
36:48
it and you're like, you know what?
36:49
So what? I don't get what I want for this
36:51
fucking. I get what I want almost every
36:53
other time, right? Like it's that's gonna bother me
36:57
that word anyways, but it's it's like just adapting and and
37:01
acclimating to the fact that, yeah, like it's I love when she
37:06
gets her way and you can find love in that too, where it's
37:08
like, and I mean, that sounds very petty, getting her way,
37:11
but. No, no, but I, but I get what
37:13
you're saying, you know, and like you, you want, you want the
37:15
person that you're with to support you.
37:17
Like, you know, I, I do a lot of public speaking and like, I, I
37:23
want my person eventually to like be there like cheering me
37:27
on and supporting me because it, it makes me feel like I'm going
37:30
to pee my pants every time 'cause I'm so.
37:32
Darn bad easier, eh? I know.
37:34
No. And you know why?
37:35
Well, we share the same sponsor, but you know, saying the moment
37:40
you're not nervous, your ego has taken over and.
37:44
You shouldn't be speaking. Exactly right.
37:46
Like you're nervous because you care, and that's great.
37:52
I mean, I'm grateful all the time.
37:54
When I feel a little bit anxious sometimes I'm like, okay, this
37:57
is enough. We don't need to feel anxious
37:59
right now. Next feeling.
38:00
Yeah, yeah. But you're given an opportunity
38:03
to do something different and make a change.
38:06
And I think that's what's so cool about, you know, right now
38:10
is like, I didn't jump into another relationship.
38:14
I didn't, I'm trying to break that pattern.
38:17
Well, I broke the pattern. You know, those feelings and the
38:20
behaviors are much harder, right?
38:23
That feeling of like, I'm not good enough.
38:25
You got to work on that every single day.
38:27
You know, just accepting that it's actually OK to feel that
38:30
way as long as you just like don't give in.
38:34
Do you know what I mean? Like acknowledging your
38:36
vulnerabilities and knowing like, hey, maybe I don't look so
38:39
great today, but that's fine. It's OK.
38:42
Like, you cannot feel perfect and great every single day.
38:46
And if people do, please let me know what the secret is.
38:48
Yeah. You know, it's called lying, but
38:52
no, it's it's perception, right? And like it's the same reason
38:54
I'm fat one day and then the next day I don't even think
38:57
about it. It's like I just, my perception
38:59
is shifting And I would say I want to talk about the soulmate
39:04
thing because I it's do you have you?
39:07
I hope you have now, but if you haven't, there's that show on
39:09
Netflix. Something bad is going to
39:11
happen. Something very bad is going to
39:12
happen. Really, it's a horror show.
39:14
It's not that good anyways. They talk about soul mates.
39:17
I'm going to watch it tonight. And if she doesn't marry her
39:19
soul mate, she's going to die. That's like the premise of the
39:21
whole story. And so it sparked this
39:23
interesting conversation between my wife and I.
39:25
And we actually agreed. We don't always agree on
39:27
everything, which is funny, but I'm spiritual.
39:30
You're spiritual. She's not so much into that.
39:33
She's very much like outdoors and stuff like that.
39:35
But we we both agreed that like fate soul mate, I, I don't
39:43
subscribe to the idea that there is no other man in this entire
39:48
world that would fit my wife perfectly.
39:51
Do you know what I mean? Like I don't, I don't, that's
39:53
asinine to think about And all the people in the world.
39:55
Do I think that we just lined up perfectly at the right time and
39:58
it's fate that, that maybe like, I don't know, we're soul mates.
40:01
Yes, I I think we are. Is there no one else on this
40:04
earth that would, You know what I mean?
40:06
Fit in that mold and be good for each other?
40:09
What? What do you think about that?
40:10
Like, what do you think about soul mates?
40:11
Do you believe in that? I mean, I yeah, like I believe
40:16
in the notebook. That's my favorite movie.
40:20
Every girl's. Oh man, no, I you know what I
40:23
do, but in a little bit of a different way.
40:25
Like I think, yes, I believe in soul mates.
40:27
And I think that again, timing is everything.
40:30
And I am grateful for every relationship that I have been in
40:35
because I've learned something different each time.
40:38
And I think learning about yourself means that in the next
40:43
relationship, you're going to be bringing that new version of
40:46
yourself, right? And so like 10 years ago or 15
40:52
years ago, I wouldn't have been able to be with my ex, right?
40:55
Like it never would have worked. Timing is everything.
40:58
And so I think I don't think you just have one soul mate.
41:04
I think that you, you kind of, or actually, you know what, I
41:07
think maybe you are in a bunch of relationships until you find
41:11
that person. Maybe that's what it is.
41:13
And same with them, right? It's like, so there's a guy out
41:15
there right now that's maybe banging his head against the
41:18
wall like you are, or maybe you're not.
41:21
That's let's not be that dramatic.
41:25
Banging his head on relationships, trying to figure
41:27
it out, but like lost and not not like completely lost and not
41:31
trying to figure it out and trying to figure it out and same
41:34
thing. And, you know, he's just kind of
41:38
climbing the ladder, if you will, to the point where you
41:40
guys meet in that Starbucks that day.
41:42
Yes. I.
41:43
Love Starbucks? If you end up meeting your your
41:45
future husband in the Starbucks I.
41:47
They Starbucks needs a sponsor. Call me.
41:49
Yeah, Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
41:51
I think that that's like I, I think you're right.
41:53
I think it's like you're almost like, I feel it sounds so fucked
41:56
up, but it, it seems like levels of a video game to me.
41:59
And it's, I hate to say that it's a video game, but it kind
42:02
of is. It's like you're you're playing
42:03
the game and you're learning about yourself along the way.
42:05
Your character is developing and then to the point where maybe
42:08
you find this person at that exact time.
42:11
So it could be any number of people.
42:12
But you're blending. On that, that timing.
42:14
Absolutely. And even like I was, I was
42:17
talking with my aunt the other day and she was saying, you
42:18
know, like if anything had happened to my uncle, she's like
42:21
I'd be single for the like. I loved being alone, you know,
42:25
like she she is content with her relationship, but if anything,
42:30
God forbid, was to happen to him, like she wouldn't want
42:34
another relationship, like she would want to just live out her
42:38
time herself. And I think that is also really
42:41
beautiful. You don't like having that
42:43
content contentment and, and just kind of like acceptance
42:49
that like she's enough for herself.
42:51
She's a mom, she has a daughter, she's about to be a grandmother,
42:54
you know, like, so I think it, it really also just depends like
42:58
on the person because my aunt and I are also very different,
43:01
but very much alike in the sense that we're, we're very emotional
43:05
beings. And yeah, I just had a brain
43:10
fart. I think the the other thing that
43:14
that is interesting about that too is, you know, she's kind of
43:18
enjoy, it sounds to me like she's enjoyed all the love that
43:21
she feels like she can get out of that situation.
43:23
Like there's no more other love situation like you've when you
43:27
feel love to its fullest degree. Well, and that's exactly what it
43:30
is. Like I, I am so jealous of their
43:34
relationship. Like it's so simple.
43:37
It is so simple, you know, they, they travel, they, you know,
43:44
like every night watch a show together.
43:46
They have a boy's night and A and a girl's night.
43:48
Like they, they do things separately, but they do things
43:51
to get like it's just, and it's so simple.
43:54
They're not out like doing these extravagant date nights and
43:57
plant like it's, there's no work.
44:01
There's like they don't have to put in this mass amount of
44:04
effort because they understand each other.
44:07
They like the same things, but also like some things they
44:10
don't. You know what I mean?
44:12
Like they just they fit. They are just a meshed and.
44:16
Yeah, you nailed it right there. It's not work.
44:18
And and I agree, it's like this is my my wife and I, this
44:21
relationship has been the first time in my life where it's just
44:24
been sort of easy and things just fall.
44:26
And yeah, we disagree on things and we agree on things and it's,
44:29
I'm still working on it, but it's like at the end of the day,
44:32
I don't feel like I'm trying to manage the situation.
44:36
Exactly And I think like, you know, life happens, things
44:40
happen, people, right, like we, we mess up and make mistakes and
44:45
you know, there's always consequences for for our actions
44:47
and our behaviors and things like that.
44:49
But like, overall, I don't think a relationship is supposed to be
44:54
so strenuous where every night you're fighting and you know,
44:57
there's the same things are coming up, you know, and, and I
45:01
will say the other thing that I've experienced in
45:03
relationships that have been really hard is, you know, like
45:07
we talk about like periods and, and men joke around or you on
45:10
your period and it's funny, but at the end of the day, it's
45:14
like, it's really hard to express.
45:17
Like I have PMDD, which is premenstrual dysmorphic
45:19
disorder. And like, I didn't even know
45:21
until maybe I was like 30. I had no idea.
45:26
I just thought it was like, normal to be like, super
45:28
emotional before your period and, you know, to like, want to
45:32
kill yourself. I thought these feelings were
45:34
normal. And my doctor was like, no, it's
45:37
not normal like that. Most women don't feel like that,
45:41
but since the age of 12, I just kind of had those feelings.
45:45
And so trying to express yourself in a relationship,
45:48
like, you know, you want somebody to be close to you, but
45:52
you don't physically want them to touch you because you kind of
45:54
feel like you're going to murder them.
45:56
But also like it's not them. It's like it, it, it sounds
46:00
funny when we talk about it, but it is like a real battle inside,
46:04
you know, and like I, I have never been able to control those
46:10
feelings of like, I am absolutely worthless.
46:15
And it's caused fights in my relationships.
46:19
Like, you know, I keep bringing up the same thing.
46:21
Or, oh, are you on your period again?
46:22
Because like, this is happening instead of the understanding
46:26
that, OK, this is how her cycle is, you know, like, let's kind
46:30
of figure it out together. Why don't you learn a little
46:32
bit? You know, there is a chemical
46:35
imbalance. It is not made-up.
46:38
It is not you're just on your period.
46:41
And my feelings are rational, whether they're irrational or
46:45
not, they are valid that because I am feeling them, they are very
46:48
real. And so I think when you're in
46:51
that relationship and like my friendships where I can have
46:54
those open conversations of, of trust and raw vulnerability,
47:00
like that's what you need. That's what I want in a
47:02
relationship, you know, and it and it and it's, it's hard to
47:05
find people that are understanding.
47:08
Yeah, and it takes time too, right?
47:09
And it's like. Sometimes it's like you, you
47:12
need to know the difference between when I want to be left
47:14
alone, when you want to be left alone, and when you want to be
47:16
comforted. Because sometimes it's better to
47:18
just like. Well, right.
47:19
And ask because everybody is different, you know what I mean?
47:22
And I think sometimes it's like, oh, well, I'll just let her work
47:25
this out herself. But that's also not great.
47:27
Like the isolation piece where then I'm sitting there being
47:30
like, oh, they don't want to be around me.
47:32
They're going to leave me. They found somebody out.
47:33
Like it's so crazy. Like it is so crazy, you know?
47:37
And like at the end of the day, like, like, who was I joking
47:41
with the other day where I did something so unhinged, I don't
47:44
even know what it was. I was like probably joking with
47:46
my best friend. And then I came to the
47:48
realization because I was like, I got my period the next day and
47:51
I was like, oh God, it all makes sense, right?
47:53
Because like these feelings, these emotions, it feels like an
47:57
impending sense of doom. Like it feels like the world is
48:01
crashing down and there's nothing you can do about it.
48:04
And then and, you know, it happens because it happens every
48:08
month. And then you're like, OK, so it
48:09
wasn't me, right? And like being able to accept
48:13
the fact that that's kind of how it goes.
48:15
And understanding your body, understanding the foods that you
48:18
need under like it all plays a part, you know, and, and the
48:21
people that you have in your life.
48:23
So I'd rather be single and, you know, live this life myself then
48:28
then have to like walk on egg shells or have to, you know, I
48:33
don't know, not not be myself anymore because like, I think
48:36
I'm pretty great. You know, I'm super quirky.
48:39
I'm like really nerdy and lame and I joke around, but I'm also
48:45
really authentic. You know, I care a lot about
48:47
people and there isn't anything I wouldn't do for the person
48:50
that I love. But I think once I'm like
48:54
settled in to myself more and it'll happen when it's supposed
48:58
to happen. And it's hard to say and it
49:00
sucks, but it's it's true, right?
49:02
Yeah. Did you follow the rule of
49:05
dating in your first year of recovery, or did you?
49:08
OK, so I the my partner at that time we came in together so we
49:13
were already in a relationship. Loophole, loophole.
49:18
No, but, but I, I mean, yes, OK, it's not written in the big bug.
49:21
It's not. But at the end of the day, like,
49:26
what do you have to offer? No, seriously.
49:29
And and that's not an insult. Like I'm not saying that you're
49:32
a bad person. I'm saying like you've been
49:34
through some stuff and it is time to heal.
49:37
It's time to put yourself first for once and really get to know
49:41
yourself. And it's like right now, like
49:44
when, when I when you go through a breakup, what do you have to
49:47
offer the next person because you're bringing all of that into
49:51
this. It is not fair for that future
49:54
person that you're going to meet.
49:55
And so, you know, I think dating in your first year, I mean,
49:59
listen, like I come from a, a lineage of, of people who, you
50:04
know, if you date in the first year, you need to find another
50:06
sponsor. And that is fair.
50:08
And that's, that's what I learned.
50:10
That's what I do with my sponsees.
50:11
And I think it's, I just think it's a really, it's a really
50:15
good kind of moral compass to have.
50:18
And everyone's different. I've seen people date in their
50:20
first year and they have happy relationships and, and that's
50:23
great. You know, for me, I like if if I
50:27
had come in single, I would have, I probably would have went
50:30
back out, right? Like your first year is so
50:33
crucial. You're so vulnerable.
50:36
And it's also kind of like predatory, you know, depending
50:41
on like where you are. That's a whole other podcast,
50:43
too. The the Yeah, we'll.
50:45
Get we'll. Get to that.
50:46
You know what I haven't. Again, male perspective but I
50:49
haven't been Privy to it in the the yeah, maybe that's cuz of
50:52
the groups I went to or all the groups and there's certain
50:55
groups that wouldn't let that shit happen.
50:56
And good people, right? And, and that's what it is.
50:59
It's just listen, we all come in sick and we don't all get
51:01
better. That's what it is, right?
51:04
But I think, yeah, at the at the end of the day, like the first
51:08
year is so crucial. It's so important.
51:11
Like you are going through withdrawal, you're maybe finding
51:15
a job like every, everyone's first year is so different.
51:19
But that's time for you. Like you got to build that
51:21
foundation so that when and if you get into a relationship and
51:25
it say it doesn't work out, worst case scenario you fall and
51:29
you have such a sturdy foundation, you're not going
51:31
back out, right? Yeah, it and it takes so much
51:35
time. I think the, the big thing for
51:36
me is what I realized is that we make other people our new drugs
51:40
of choice, right? And it's like I again, I, I
51:43
snort that other person and I'm not putting my recovery first
51:45
because I'm focusing on codependence.
51:47
I need you to love me so that I can love myself.
51:50
And I, I remember, so I, I dated the in my like 13th month.
51:56
I think I waited because I, I respected all the things I, I
51:59
wanted to stay. So like, I was like, fuck, I
52:00
don't want to go back there, right?
52:02
And it was still hard. So like, I don't, you know, the
52:04
the timeline thing, I don't know, it takes time, but I put
52:08
this person on a pedestal to the effect of going on vacation.
52:12
I didn't even enjoy my vacation with my dad because I was so
52:15
obsessed with that person. And I was like, what are we
52:17
going to do when I get back whenever it was fucking to your
52:20
point, if I didn't have that foundation, I would have
52:22
relapsed for sure. But it was exhausting.
52:24
It was exhausting. You put these people on a
52:26
pedestal, you stork them like a drug and then it's like if
52:28
something happens immediately I'm spinning a story in my head,
52:31
I'm not enough. I'm piece of shit.
52:33
I'm never going to find love. Something's wrong with me and
52:36
the world. The Sky's falling.
52:38
I always say to the guys that I work with, I'm like, I'll I'll
52:40
never tell you what to do 'cause you're a grown man.
52:42
But if you are going to date and a lot of them do, you got to
52:45
work 10 times harder of a program like you have to.
52:48
There's like no shortcuts here at all.
52:51
You're working and I'll tell you it's probably not going to work
52:53
out for a lot of people because that's what happens.
52:55
We make them our recovery program and then everything else
52:59
kind of. Falls, it goes to the
52:59
codependency piece, right? Like and it's so hard, like it's
53:02
so hard to be alone. And I mean like what I'm coming
53:06
up to 11 years. It's still hard.
53:08
Like it's never easy, but you just like it's exciting too,
53:12
right? Like you kind of get to figure
53:14
out what you like and what you don't like, and you get to do
53:17
whatever you want, you know? And like, when the time comes,
53:21
like you get to bring that stuff that you've learned about
53:24
yourself into, like, that's exciting, you know?
53:30
My favorite part about living alone was being able to eat
53:33
dinner at any time in the day. I don't know if that's.
53:36
A good nail. Thing, I used to eat dinner at
53:38
4:00 sometimes. Oh my God, yeah, it was the
53:40
best. That was my favorite part.
53:41
And then the other thing. I saw a Reddit post one time
53:43
that said what is the best part about or the worst part about
53:47
living with someone else? And it was when you put things
53:50
places they're not where you left them.
53:52
That was the number one biggest pain point for people.
53:56
It's like when I put something somewhere, it's not where I left
53:59
it. Oh yeah.
54:00
I used to, I'm like, you know, I had to move everything needs to
54:04
be a certain way, you know, toxic trait for sure.
54:08
But but yeah, that was a big complaint because I would move
54:10
everything and I'd be like, look, it's all organized and it
54:12
looks great and this is yours and then this is mine and it's
54:15
fine. And he'd be like, yeah, but I
54:17
left it there. And today I can see you're
54:20
right. You left it there.
54:21
It's not mine. Why did I move it but at the
54:22
same time like put it away? Yeah.
54:26
Then this goes back to like, what is my part?
54:29
Right. Again, it's like, what is my
54:30
part? OK, yes.
54:32
Was it more organized? But also, here's what I did for
54:35
that person. I don't know from taking my my
54:37
inventory on it. Yeah.
54:39
Yeah. Living with, that's a whole
54:40
other ball game, too. Is moving in with somebody.
54:43
There's always one thing. OK, Let me ask you this.
54:45
What's your thing that you cannot stand when someone does
54:49
it that you live with? Like just one.
54:52
Thing I know I. Like if there's like dishes in
54:57
the sink. My wifes like that.
54:59
Yeah, and you need a spoon, and you wash only the spoon and you
55:04
leave the rest of the dishes in the sink.
55:07
Make that make sense? Yeah, I don't understand.
55:11
There's that's mine too. That's my wife's.
55:13
There's many, you know. But listen, I am not an easy
55:16
person to live with either. I am an afternoon girlie.
55:21
I don't do mornings. I don't like mornings.
55:23
I want to be a morning person. I strive to be a morning person.
55:28
But I am like a demon in the morning, you know?
55:31
So like I, I give credit to my history of relationships.
55:38
I've heard of people like sleeping in different beds too.
55:40
Our friends friends of ours just moved in together for the first
55:43
time and they have two two different beds because their
55:46
schedules are so opposite. She wakes up at like 3.
55:49
But you know what? That's really healthy.
55:51
Like at the end of the day, you need sleep.
55:54
And if you are like, if you're not able to sleep in the same
55:58
bed, like, yeah, OK, that, that really sucks.
56:00
But if you can't get however many hours, you're not going to
56:04
be able to function. Like it just doesn't work that
56:06
way. Two different blankets is good
56:09
though. Yeah, that's a new the Swedish
56:11
method or whatever it's called. Yeah, we've been looking into
56:14
that too. Where do you want to land this
56:18
thing? I don't know.
56:27
What's something that you're gonna what's something that you
56:32
took home from? You mentioned boundaries, but
56:34
like what's something that you one thing that you took from
56:38
that that you actually implemented into your life,
56:40
something practical with boundaries?
56:46
I mean it sounds so simple but like saying no, right?
56:50
Like we hear it all the time. Just say no.
56:54
And not maybe too I'm I'm notorious for that.
56:57
Like maybe no, Like yes or no. Right, exactly.
56:59
And, and it's, and it's hard and it's really scary at first
57:02
because again, my, my history, my background, I'm a people
57:06
pleaser. I need you to like me.
57:07
I need everyone to love me. But like, it's just not
57:13
possible. If I cannot do something, I have
57:17
to say no, no, maybe, right? Like I have to put those
57:21
boundaries in place, otherwise I'm going to burn out again.
57:26
And who knows if I'll come back from it.
57:28
So, you know, it's, it sounds like a super simple thing, but
57:32
it, it's, it's really hard. And I can tell you that since
57:37
I've started saying no, things have changed.
57:40
Like super small. But like my aunt the other day,
57:42
she's like, you're so much happier, like you feel so much
57:45
more present. Freedom.
57:46
Exactly. You know, I'm, I'm doing things
57:50
for me. If, if I want to like sit on my
57:53
couch and watch Netflix all night, I'm going to do that.
57:56
That's fine. Maybe I'm not going to answer my
57:58
phone or maybe I say, hey, can I call you tomorrow?
58:01
Like I'm, I'm having a me night, right?
58:03
Like it's just, it's very simple.
58:05
I don't. I try, I try not to feel too bad
58:10
about prioritizing myself and my health, my mental health, all of
58:14
that. And also, you know, Jen was in
58:16
here. I think you know, Jen, Jen B.
58:18
But she said she mentioned how no is a full sentence too,
58:22
right? Absolutely.
58:23
I'm the guy that's like, no, because I and I'll spin this.
58:26
Justify and explain you have to no, you know, but but it's true,
58:31
right? It's that guilt that like no.
58:33
And here let me make it. Let me cushion it right, Let.
58:37
Me cushion the book. Let me make it softer for you
58:39
and sugarcoat. No, I can't do it.
58:43
And just having that confidence that like that's that it is what
58:47
it is. No, like just fuck off.
58:51
OK, what's your favorite self-care activity?
58:55
You said Netflix already so. I love can I say prime?
59:00
It's such a. Just kidding, they have better.
59:02
Movies on there. Actually, they do.
59:03
Honestly, like so recently I'm like obsessed with like Korean
59:10
face masks, like the like Jelly ones that like melt into your
59:13
skin. It's so cool.
59:16
Like it sounds like super lame, but like taking a bath, not
59:20
bringing my phone, leaving my phone, not sleeping with my
59:23
phone in the bedroom, right? Like leaving my phone out in the
59:26
living room, taking a bath, going to a meeting by myself.
59:30
Just like, just doing stuff alone, right?
59:34
Like going out to eat by myself. You know what?
59:38
I did that once in France and it was the scariest experience of
59:42
my life. Full patio of people.
59:44
You just reminded me it was. I was sober too, and I went to I
59:47
went to Spain and France before I got married by myself.
59:50
I did hostels. I fucking maybe that's what you
59:53
need to do. Maybe that's what you might
59:55
think about doing. Go to a hostel.
59:56
Yeah, travel to a hostel. Do you know how?
59:58
Many horror movies I've watched. Absolutely not, Anthony.
1:00:01
Again, white male perspective different, very different.
1:00:04
Anthony, remember. Hello.
1:00:06
Yeah, know your audience, but yeah, it's like.
1:00:08
And so I there was one night out of that whole trip where I
1:00:11
didn't have friends. I didn't meet friends yet.
1:00:12
And I am not the kind of person that eats alone because like, Oh
1:00:16
my God, the fear and. And I did it and can I tell you
1:00:20
like. It was the greatest thing ever.
1:00:22
I accomplished it, seeing all these people with people, and I
1:00:25
was like, nobody fucking cares. The other thing is.
1:00:28
Going in movie by yourself. I've done that too.
1:00:30
I've done that too. That is a good.
1:00:32
And like, you know, I recently started working out again.
1:00:34
Like I, I got a coach to like help me because I make all of
1:00:39
these goals where I'm like, I'm going to work out this day and
1:00:41
this day and this day and do that.
1:00:42
And then what happens? I fall off because I don't have
1:00:45
a consistent schedule. I'm also not an expert at
1:00:47
working out. So like I need someone to help
1:00:50
me. 37 year old woman, I need you to help me.
1:00:54
And so I got someone amazing. She's so so good.
1:00:58
And she's helped me with nutrition like my workouts form,
1:01:03
self love, self-care, not being hard on myself if I can't do a
1:01:07
workout before my period, right? Like looping it into my cycles.
1:01:11
Because your workout is very different in luteal than it is,
1:01:14
you know, follicular or fucking menstruation.
1:01:20
Ovulation expert Caitlin Victoria.
1:01:22
Yeah, no, that's great. That's amazing.
1:01:26
I I love all those things too. Movie is my favorite one by
1:01:28
myself. Galen, I love you so much.
1:01:30
Thanks for coming down. Thanks buddy, love you too.