Latest / hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic / Breast Cancer Surgeon Reveals the Truth About Mammograms, Metabolic Health, Toxic Overload and Cancer Treatment | Dr. Jenn Simmons

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Breast Cancer Surgeon Reveals the Truth About Mammograms, Metabolic Health, Toxic Overload and Cancer Treatment | Dr. Jenn Simmons · hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic

• [00:00:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: We are treating 20 to 30% of breast cancers, of [00:00:05] screen-detected breast cancers unnecessarily, and treatment for breast [00:00:10] cancer is not benign. I was put here to forever change how we diagnose, how we [00:00:15] treat, and how we screen for breast cancer. The way that we have been doing it, the way that [00:00:20] we have been approaching it, is wrong. [00:00:22] Dr. Taz: There are usually three major drivers, and we need to find it [00:00:25] and nail it, and then turn this thing around. [00:00:27] Dr. Jenn Simmons: This is not about blame or shame. [00:00:28] Dr. Taz: No. [00:00:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And no [00:00:30] one ever does anything with the intention of getting cancer. Most breast [00:00:35] cancer is a result of long-standing metabolic dysfunction. Mm. I'm changing, [00:00:40] forever changing, how we're treating breast cancer. [00:00:43] Dr. Taz: Okay, I wanna talk to you for a [00:00:45] minute about something really important when it comes to aging: zombie cells. Yep, you heard that [00:00:50] right, zombie cells. These are the cells in your skin that stop functioning properly as we age, and [00:00:55] they accumulate over time, making your skin look older faster than it should. [00:00:59] Dr. Taz: But here's [00:01:00] the good news: OneSkin has developed a groundbreaking way to target those very [00:01:05] cells and help your skin age more gracefully. When it comes to skincare, we've all had that moment [00:01:10] where we wonder, "Is this product really gonna work?" But with OneSkin, I don't have to wonder because the [00:01:15] science speaks for itself. [00:01:16] Dr. Taz: At the heart of OneSkin's entire approach is their OS-01 [00:01:20] peptide. It's the first ingredient ever scientifically proven to reverse the [00:01:25] skin's biological age by addressing the cellular senescence or zombie cells. [00:01:30] By targeting these cells, OneSkin helps rejuvenate your skin from the inside out, slowing down the [00:01:35] aging process. [00:01:35] Dr. Taz: And something I really love, OneSkin's products are backed by rigorous lab and clinical [00:01:40] studies, like the research on their OS-01 peptide, which has even been published [00:01:45] in the peer-reviewed journal NPJ Aging. I've personally seen the difference in my own routine. One [00:01:50] of my favorites is their OS-01 eye cream, which in lab studies showed [00:01:55] 130% increase in collagen production. [00:01:57] Dr. Taz: And their SPF, it's not just any sunscreen. It [00:02:00] neutralizes free radicals four times more effectively than those so-called [00:02:05] anti-aging sunscreens. So if you're ready to try it out for yourself, you can get 15% off your [00:02:10] first order with the code DRTAZ at oneskin.co/drtaz. [00:02:15] That's oneskin.co/drtaz. Take control of your skin's health and [00:02:20] see the proof for yourself. [00:02:23] Dr. Taz: Some of the hardest [00:02:25] moments that I've had in practice is sitting with one of my patients on their breast [00:02:30] cancer journey. And keep in mind, they could be at so many different points of this journey. A new [00:02:35] diagnosis, an old diagnosis, a family member. But it's the same [00:02:40] anguish, the same fear, the same worry that I see in their eyes and hear in their [00:02:45] voice every single time. [00:02:47] Dr. Taz: That's why this next episode is so [00:02:50] important to me. I wanna introduce you to Dr. Jen Simmons, an integrative oncologist, [00:02:55] breast surgeon, author, podcast host, and founder of Perfect [00:03:00] QT Imaging. Her journey into breast cancer care began with her own personal tragedy. [00:03:05] At the age of 16, she lost her acclaimed singer-songwriter cousin, Linda [00:03:10] Creed, who died of metastatic breast cancer just weeks after Whitney Houston's [00:03:15] recording of Linda's song The Greatest Love of All. [00:03:18] Dr. Taz: You guys know that one. Dr. Jen [00:03:20] became Philadelphia's first fellowship-trained breast surgeon and spent 17 [00:03:25] years leading the field. However, her perspective changed again when she became a [00:03:30] patient herself. Through this personal experience, she saw how broken the [00:03:35] conventional medical system can be. This led her to discover and embrace functional medicine, [00:03:40] a revelation that sparked her journey towards a more holistic approach to breast [00:03:45] cancer care. [00:03:45] Dr. Taz: Please join me in welcoming Dr. Jen Simmons. [00:03:50] Okay, this is a really important topic, and you have made the trip up [00:03:55] here because I know you think this is a really important topic. I sure do. Breast health. [00:04:00] You know, we've talked a lot about breast health on the podcast in different ways. Personal stories, [00:04:05] you know, what people are experiencing, what the research and the science are saying. [00:04:09] Dr. Taz: There's a [00:04:10] lot of confusion, I've got to say, in this space. You know, it's like every time I have somebody [00:04:15] on, I feel like I get this different perspective on breast health [00:04:20] and what it means and how we stay healthy, how we screen for it. So I really wanna [00:04:25] dive into all of this with you. [00:04:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah. [00:04:27] Dr. Taz: But before we do, I want everyone to know [00:04:30] you. [00:04:30] Dr. Taz: So Dr. Jen is here. I love her. I have interviewed her before. [00:04:35] You're an integrative oncologist. Yes. And you're a breast surgeon. [00:04:38] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes. [00:04:38] Dr. Taz: But you've had your own [00:04:40] personal experience with breast cancer. [00:04:42] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I, I have. So people- Tell [00:04:45] us a little bit about it ... uh, people ask me all the time, you know, how did I get into this breast [00:04:50] cancer space? [00:04:51] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I want to be very clear. [00:04:52] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:04:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I did not find breast cancer. [00:04:55] Breast cancer found me. It works that way, doesn't it? It [00:04:57] Dr. Taz: always works that way. [00:04:59] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So, [00:05:00] um, but in a very early way, in that I [00:05:05] come from a breast cancer family. Literally every woman in my family [00:05:10] gets breast cancer, with the exception of my mother- Ooh [00:05:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: who had colon cancer. So my- And [00:05:14] Dr. Taz: how [00:05:15] many generations back, just out of curiosity? [00:05:16] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Well, I only know from my grandfather's generation. Okay. I don't [00:05:20] know beyond that. Beyond that, [00:05:21] Dr. Taz: uh-huh. [00:05:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Um, and my grandfather was first generation [00:05:25] here, as he, he had 13 siblings. Mm-hmm. All the girls got breast [00:05:30] cancer. All of their children. [00:05:31] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And you know, I have a very big family. [00:05:33] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:05:34] Dr. Jenn Simmons: All [00:05:35] of their children got breast cancer. So I don't remember a time in my life where [00:05:40] I didn't know about breast cancer. [00:05:41] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:05:41] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It was absolutely part of that thread, that [00:05:45] tapestry of our family. [00:05:45] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:05:46] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So growing up, I had a first cousin. Her name [00:05:50] was Linda Creed. [00:05:50] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:05:51] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Linda was a singer-songwriter in the 1970s and 1980s. [00:05:55] I'm dating myself right now. [00:05:56] Dr. Taz: That's okay. I'm right there with you. [00:05:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So no [00:05:58] Dr. Taz: worries. [00:05:59] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So [00:06:00] she wrote all the music for The Spinners and The Stylistics. Oh, [00:06:02] Dr. Taz: wow. [00:06:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: She was [00:06:05] beautiful, brilliant, larger than life, lit up every [00:06:10] room that she walked into. She wrote 54 hits in all. [00:06:14] Dr. Taz: [00:06:15] Amazing. [00:06:15] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Her most famous song was The Greatest Love of All. [00:06:19] Dr. Taz: The one Whitney [00:06:20] Houston sings- Yes ... that we all know- Yes ... and sing in the shower sometimes. Yes. Oh, [00:06:23] Dr. Jenn Simmons: amazing. That [00:06:25] iconic song was written by my first cousin, my hero. Wow. So she [00:06:30] actually wrote that song in 1977 as the title track to the movie The Greatest- Mm-hmm [00:06:34] Dr. Jenn Simmons: starring Muhammad [00:06:35] Ali. [00:06:35] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:06:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But it really received its acclaim in March of 1986 when [00:06:40] Whitney Houston- Yes ... would release that song to the world. [00:06:42] Dr. Taz: Yep. [00:06:42] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And at that time, it would spend 14 weeks at [00:06:45] the top of the charts. Only my cundus- my cousin Linda would never know, [00:06:50] because Linda died of metastatic breast cancer one month after [00:06:55] Whitney released that song. [00:06:56] Dr. Taz: No. [00:06:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: She was 37 years old. [00:06:59] Dr. Taz: [00:07:00] 37 years old. [00:07:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I was 16 years old, and my hero died. [00:07:04] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:07:05] [00:07:06] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And despite the decades, I still can't tell [00:07:10] this story- I get it ... without tears coming to my eyes. [00:07:12] Dr. Taz: I get it. [00:07:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:07:15] And her life, and ultimately her death, gave birth to my life's purpose. Because [00:07:20] I never wanted another woman, another family, another [00:07:25] community to have to suffer the way that mine suffered. [00:07:27] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:07:28] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And so I did the only thing I knew [00:07:30] how to do. I became a doctor, the first doctor in my family. Was [00:07:33] Dr. Taz: she your motivation for being a doctor? [00:07:34] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:07:35] Absolutely. 100%, [00:07:35] Dr. Taz: yep. Yeah. [00:07:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I became a surgeon. I became [00:07:40] the first fellowship-trained breast surgeon in Philadelphia. [00:07:43] Dr. Taz: None of which are easy [00:07:45] accomplishments- ... even in the '70s and '80s, so. [00:07:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I became the first oncoplastic [00:07:50] surgeon in Pennsylvania, and I did this all, I did it really well, [00:07:55] and I did it for a really long time, and I did it long enough for my mother to be [00:08:00] diagnosed. [00:08:00] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:08:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I did it long enough for my aunt to be diagnosed. And with all the [00:08:05] writing on the walls, and what, at what was arguably [00:08:10] the top of my career, as I'm running the breast program and running the [00:08:15] cancer program for my hospital, and I'm an author and a wife and a [00:08:20] mother and an athlete and a philanthropist, and I am [00:08:25] arguably one of the most high-performing people that you've ever met, and I go [00:08:30] from that to I can't walk across the room because I don't [00:08:35] have the breath in my body. [00:08:36] Dr. Taz: Mm. How old are you at this point? [00:08:40] [00:08:40] Dr. Jenn Simmons: 46. [00:08:42] Dr. Taz: So this is med school, [00:08:45] residency, practice- [00:08:46] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah, I'm in practice for about- ... childbirth, [00:08:48] Dr. Taz: post ... [00:08:48] Dr. Jenn Simmons: 16 [00:08:50] years at this point ... when this happens. And, uh- [00:08:55] I find myself, I go through this intensive workup, [00:09:00] and I find myself sitting in the office of my friend and colleague and [00:09:05] physician, and he tells me that I need surgery and chemo- [00:09:09] Dr. Taz: [00:09:10] Mm [00:09:10] Dr. Jenn Simmons: radiation. You have breast cancer. And I'm gonna be on lifelong medication, thyroid [00:09:15] And despite the fact that these are things that I [00:09:20] say all day, every day, without hesitation or reservation, [00:09:25] when these words are coming at you, it has a different meaning. [00:09:29] Dr. Taz: I'm [00:09:30] sure. What were you feeling in that moment? [00:09:33] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I was blank.[00:09:35] [00:09:35] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I was blank. And the most resounding [00:09:40] thing that happened in that moment was a voice that I couldn't [00:09:45] quiet- [00:09:45] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:09:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: that I didn't recognize, that was telling me, "There's [00:09:50] something more. Go find it." Now, I am deeply steeped in [00:09:55] conventional medicine. [00:09:56] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:09:56] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I am a conventionally trained physician, I'm a [00:10:00] surgeon, I'm running an NIH-accredited cancer program. [00:10:04] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:10:05] I did not know of anything else. I didn't know that anything else [00:10:10] existed. And yet, you can call it God, you can call [00:10:15] it universe, you can call it whatever you wanna call it, there's a voice that I cannot [00:10:20] silence in my head that says, "There's something more. Go find it." [00:10:23] Dr. Taz: Wow. [00:10:24] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:10:25] And I walked out of the office that day, and my, my friend, my [00:10:30] doctor, told me exactly what I had told thousands of women [00:10:35] before that when they asked me, "What will happen if I don't treat?" [00:10:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: My doctor told me what I [00:10:40] had told thousands of women before that when they asked me, "What will happen [00:10:45] if I don't treat?" He told me I was gonna die of my disease. And [00:10:50] I knew what he was saying, like intuitively, I [00:10:55] knew that I had said those things, and I believed those things, and I knew [00:11:00] he was trying to give me the very best advice that, that he could. [00:11:04] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right. [00:11:05] And I knew that he believed that, and yet I [00:11:10] felt so called to go find whatever this [00:11:15] was that, that was, y- you know, listen to this voice- [00:11:20] Right ... this intuition. And so I went on a journey. This was a [00:11:25] very selfish journey. This wasn't about, like, figuring out how I was gonna [00:11:30] heal my patients. This was about figuring out how I was gonna live and raise my [00:11:35] children. [00:11:35] Dr. Taz: Absolutely. [00:11:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So God is good, [00:11:40] and I very shortly thereafter find myself sitting in a lecture [00:11:45] hall, and this tall, lanky guy walks on the stage, big toothy grin, [00:11:50] and he introduces him- himself as a functional medicine physician. [00:11:53] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:11:55] [00:11:55] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Now, des- despite the fact that I'm sick, I am still [00:12:00] cynical. I still don't know where, where I'm going or what I'm looking [00:12:05] for. [00:12:05] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:12:06] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I'm still my snooty booty self. [00:12:08] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:12:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And all I could think of [00:12:10] was, "There's no such thing as a functional medicine physician. What is this quack talking [00:12:15] about?" [00:12:15] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:12:17] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And then I remember that I'm sick, and I'm there for a reason, so I [00:12:20] check my ego, and I tune in, and thank God I did. [00:12:25] Because what I was going to learn from this man over the next [00:12:30] two hours would not only telescope how I was gonna recover my health, [00:12:35] but it was also going to direct what I was going to do with [00:12:40] the rest of my life. [00:12:41] Dr. Taz: And you had never heard of functional medicine before? Never. Never [00:12:45] known about, like- [00:12:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Never ... [00:12:46] Dr. Taz: kind of this sort of underworld of medicine is what I call it. No. Because we're not [00:12:50] exposed to it at all. No, I thought he was [00:12:51] Dr. Jenn Simmons: a quack. [00:12:52] Dr. Taz: Yep. [00:12:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? [00:12:53] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:12:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So now [00:12:55] this is 2016. [00:12:56] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:12:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And [00:13:00] in 2016, we didn't talk about any of this stuff. [00:13:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: This was not [00:13:05] mainstream. I mean, you might have known. [00:13:06] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:13:07] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And there might have been some fringe people who knew, [00:13:10] right? Early, the early enlightened, I call them. But we didn't [00:13:15] talk about this stuff, and even, you know, I went to Jefferson for medical school. Yeah. Oh, yeah. There was a [00:13:20] school of integrative medicine there, and we thought that that's where the crazies went. [00:13:24] Dr. Taz: [00:13:25] Mm-hmm. [00:13:25] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Like, you know, the fringe people who like- I, trust me ... didn't quite get it. Yep. [00:13:30] Right? Like, they were hanging out in the school of integrative medicine, and the [00:13:35] serious doctors were in places like I was, like in the operating [00:13:40] room. [00:13:40] Dr. Taz: I've told, I've told this story so many times, like when I chose this path, [00:13:45] which also chose me because I got sick, but I was 28, you know, as I [00:13:50] started much younger, so by 2016, I- I'm a slow [00:13:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: learner. [00:13:52] Dr. Taz: No, it's just, it's just when things happen to us, [00:13:55] right? Like, it totally takes you down a different road, and so 2016, when you're entering [00:14:00] this conversation, I had already been in practice for about seven or, seven or eight years. [00:14:05] So you can imagine if you're thinking quack then, I was a super quack back in [00:14:10] 2008- Yeah [00:14:10] Dr. Taz: 2009, right? And I remember my med school buddies being, [00:14:15] you know, literally sitting me down like, "Why would you do that? Like, why would you jeopardize [00:14:20] your name and your reputation?" Mm-hmm. You know? And, you know, that was the time and the [00:14:25] era that we were in, and we're in a different one now, thankfully, but we still have a lot of work to do, and we still [00:14:30] have a long way to go. [00:14:30] Dr. Taz: But I wanna hear- For sure. [00:14:32] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Without question ... [00:14:33] Dr. Taz: what you did next and what happened [00:14:35] to you. So [00:14:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: what I learned in that, in the next two hours, [00:14:40] right, is that in all of [00:14:45] chronic illness- [00:14:45] Dr. Taz: Yep ... [00:14:46] Dr. Jenn Simmons: but most demonstrably in the [00:14:50] area of cancer, we are completely focused on the wrong thing. [00:14:55] Specifically with cancer, we're focused on the tumor. [00:14:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: All the focus- [00:15:00] Yes ... is on the tumor, right? But the tumor's not the problem. The tumor is the [00:15:05] symptom of the problem, and unless you back up 10 steps and ask the [00:15:10] question, "Why is this cancer there?" you're never going to [00:15:15] solve anything. You're never going to change the trajectory of that person's life. [00:15:20] Even me as a surgeon, removing the tumor doesn't solve the [00:15:25] problem. [00:15:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I may delay the inevitable- [00:15:28] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:15:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: but I'm not [00:15:30] solving the problem. I'm not changing the trajectory of that person's life. [00:15:35] So as it turns out, this quack was Mark Hyman. [00:15:38] Dr. Taz: Ah, we know [00:15:40] that name. [00:15:40] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Which, you know, today, you can, you can say his [00:15:45] name, and most people know exactly- Right ... who you're talking about. [00:15:48] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:15:49] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But in 2016, [00:15:50] not so much. Mm-hmm. And I had never heard of him. [00:15:55] So, and he's talking about these concepts that were never introduced to me. [00:16:00] Not [00:16:00] Dr. Taz: at [00:16:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: all, yeah. Root cause illness. Who ever heard of that? [00:16:05] When did we ever ask why? We never did. We never [00:16:09] Dr. Taz: did. We weren't [00:16:10] trained [00:16:10] Dr. Jenn Simmons: to. A really- Yeah ... good doctor takes a constellation [00:16:15] of symptoms, gives it a name, and prescribes a [00:16:20] drug. [00:16:20] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:16:20] Dr. Jenn Simmons: A procedure. [00:16:21] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:16:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Something along those lines. That's what a really good [00:16:25] doctor does in that conventional system. And [00:16:30] nowhere are they sitting with their patients for an hour or two or [00:16:35] three trying to figure out how they got here, right? So this [00:16:40] was a completely new concept to me, and I get very [00:16:45] excited. [00:16:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I'm an early adopter and I am a quick start. [00:16:48] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:16:49] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I enroll [00:16:50] in the school for, in the Institute for Functional Medicine. [00:16:53] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:16:54] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I spend the [00:16:55] next three years just immersed in the study of functional medicine. [00:16:58] Dr. Taz: What's going on with you [00:17:00] meanwhile? [00:17:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Oh, I'm getting much worse. [00:17:01] Dr. Taz: You're getting worse? [00:17:02] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah, yeah. So [00:17:05] it turns out that you should not embark on a journey and [00:17:10] think that you can heal yourself. [00:17:11] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:17:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I didn't know what I didn't know. [00:17:14] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:17:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I [00:17:15] didn't ask for help. I, I, I got much, much worse before I got better. [00:17:19] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:17:19] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:17:20] Much, much worse. Fortunately, I did get better, but it took a very [00:17:25] long time. It took years, and it didn't need to. [00:17:28] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:17:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:17:30] Um, and I also made some very, very, very [00:17:35] well-intentioned bad decisions. [00:17:37] Dr. Taz: We do that as doctors. We do [00:17:40] that all the time. We should not be doctoring ourselves. No. Let's just put that out there. [00:17:44] Dr. Jenn Simmons: No. Or our [00:17:45] children, as it turns out. [00:17:45] Dr. Taz: Or our families. Yeah. And yes, too many stories there. Yeah, yeah. But absolutely not, yeah. [00:17:49] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:17:50] It does not work out so well. No, [00:17:51] Dr. Taz: mm-mm. [00:17:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I love you, Andrew. [00:17:54] Dr. Taz: Oh, I have [00:17:55] Vic. [00:17:56] Dr. Taz: Man walking around ... Well, I shouldn't share. Walking around with a stent right now 'cause he [00:18:00] wouldn't listen to me. Oh. So yeah. [00:18:01] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Oh, okay. Yeah, [00:18:02] Dr. Taz: anyhow. [00:18:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: No, this is, this is my son who, [00:18:05] like, is forever researching this and that and this and that, and asking me, "Mom, [00:18:10] I wanna do this and I wanna do that," and I'm like, "Ah." [00:18:12] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:18:13] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But- [00:18:13] Dr. Taz: Well ... [00:18:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: yeah, we digress. [00:18:14] Dr. Taz: [00:18:15] Yes. [00:18:15] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Um, so you know, what was happening with me [00:18:20] is that at every step along the way in what I was [00:18:25] learning- [00:18:25] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:18:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I was applying whatever that, that was to me [00:18:30] then, and not really solving for what was going on- What was happening ... [00:18:35] with me. Um, and what was going on with me was very complex, [00:18:40] and- I want to be clear about the fact that [00:18:45] what was going on with me and my why is different than anyone [00:18:50] else's. [00:18:50] Dr. Taz: So true. [00:18:51] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And so people ask me all the time, "What did [00:18:55] you do to heal?" Well, what I did to heal was [00:19:00] take care of the things that I did to get me sick, right? And a [00:19:05] lot of them I didn't know about, and a lot of them people don't know about. So [00:19:10] when we ask why, when we're in this position with patients, [00:19:15] this is not about blame or shame. [00:19:16] Dr. Taz: No. [00:19:17] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? And no one ever does [00:19:20] anything with the intention of getting cancer, including smoking cigarettes. Mm-hmm. Like, [00:19:25] find me the smoker out there that's like, "I'm smoking because I wanna get lung cancer." [00:19:29] Dr. Taz: [00:19:30] Right. [00:19:30] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? Like, no one is doing this intentionally, but yet [00:19:35] there are many things that we do unknowingly [00:19:40] that lead to illness. [00:19:43] Dr. Taz: I love your point though, because for [00:19:45] so many people, the first emotion around a cancer diagnosis, [00:19:50] honestly around any diagnosis, is a lot of shame. [00:19:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It is. [00:19:53] Dr. Taz: And then there's the guilt, [00:19:55] and then there's the blame. Yes. And it's kind of you walk through those three steps- Yes ... over and over again. Yes. [00:20:00] And I think that, you know, if you do get a diagnosis, it's not because you did something [00:20:05] wrong. [00:20:05] Dr. Taz: No. And I think I hear that all the time. You didn't do something wrong. [00:20:10] Now, we wanna talk about the why behind cancer, and I think the [00:20:15] why applies often to every type of cancer, not just breast cancer, right? That's for sure true. But breast [00:20:20] cancer has its own issue. And I think you make a really good point that everybody's why is [00:20:25] different. [00:20:25] Dr. Taz: I talk a lot in the rooms about a three-hit theory, that there are usually [00:20:30] three major drivers, and we need to find it and nail it, and then turn this thing around. [00:20:35] When you think of your own story, I have two questions for you here. First, if someone's listening to [00:20:40] us and they just got a diagnosis of breast cancer or of cancer, what would you [00:20:45] tell them? [00:20:46] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Take a breath. Take a pause. [00:20:50] Especially in the world of breast cancer with very rare exceptions, which I'm happy to talk about the res- [00:20:55] the exceptions, you have time. You have space. That's [00:20:58] Dr. Taz: such a gift in [00:21:00] itself. [00:21:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes. Yes. And in this conventional world, [00:21:05] everyone is kind of, like, put on this runaway train of treatment. [00:21:09] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Like, "Hurry, [00:21:10] hurry, hurry. Sign up for surgery. Sign up for chemo. Sign up for radiation. You have to get treated right [00:21:15] away." And they do that on purpose. Right. We have a very fear-based [00:21:20] system, a very fear-based system. And think about how good you are [00:21:25] at making decisions when you're stressed. [00:21:27] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:21:28] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And is there a [00:21:30] greater stressor than a breast cancer diagnosis? [00:21:33] Dr. Taz: Not at [00:21:33] Dr. Jenn Simmons: all. Right? So when you are [00:21:35] stressed, you literally can't think. It is an intentional [00:21:40] survival mechanism, right? Because we only know two states, [00:21:45] right? We know safety, and we know danger. [00:21:46] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:21:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And we only know these [00:21:50] unsophisticated, ancient dangers. Like, we don't understand the difference [00:21:55] between a deadline and a saber-tooth tiger. [00:21:58] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:21:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: The only thing we know [00:22:00] is saber-tooth tiger. So if we are encountering a saber-tooth tiger [00:22:05] We just need to run. We don't need to think about which way to run and should I make a [00:22:10] left turn or a right. We just need to run. Just go, go, go, right? So what [00:22:15] happens is that the blood gets shunted away from the thinking part, the cognitive [00:22:20] part of our brain, and where the monkey brain is on. [00:22:23] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Well, this [00:22:25] is what's happening when people get a breast cancer diagnosis. They're immediately in [00:22:30] danger. [00:22:30] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:22:31] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? They have that stress response, and then we're asking them in that [00:22:35] time and space to make an, a decision that's gonna affect them for the [00:22:40] rest of their life. And they're [00:22:40] Dr. Taz: inundated with information- Yes [00:22:42] Dr. Taz: and data and statistics- [00:22:45] That they cannot- ... that they don't [00:22:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: understand ... possibly process. [00:22:47] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:22:48] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So here's the [00:22:50] exceptions If you have inflammatory breast cancer, this is an emergency. [00:22:54] Dr. Taz: [00:22:55] Mm-hmm. [00:22:56] Dr. Jenn Simmons: This is something that is already systemic. Your clock is [00:23:00] ticking, unfortunately, and you need treatment right away. This is a do [00:23:05] not pass go, do not collect $200. [00:23:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Just [00:23:08] Dr. Taz: get on it. [00:23:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Just get on it. [00:23:09] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:23:10] [00:23:10] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Okay? The second thing is, if you have metastatic [00:23:15] disease to the bone that has caused a fracture, right? These are very painful. [00:23:20] People are suffering. It is impossible to heal when you are in [00:23:25] pain. That is something that needs radiation right away, because we need to get people out of pain [00:23:30] in order for them to heal. [00:23:31] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:23:32] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And the third thing is, if you have brain mets. Yes. The brain is [00:23:35] in a fixed space. We cannot afford for too much swelling because when you get [00:23:40] too much swelling, the blood supply to the brain gets cut off. This is not compatible with life. [00:23:44] Dr. Taz: [00:23:45] Right. [00:23:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So if you have a brain met or brain mets, you need treatment for that right away.[00:23:50] [00:23:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Everyone else, including people who are diagnosed with metastatic disease, [00:23:55] everyone else, you have time. You have time to learn [00:24:00] about the disease- [00:24:00] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:24:01] Dr. Jenn Simmons: learn about the treatments, see what's right for [00:24:05] you, assemble your team, make your plan. And the thing that [00:24:10] everyone who gets breast cancer, breast ca- breast cancer gets- [00:24:14] Dr. Taz: [00:24:15] Right [00:24:15] Dr. Jenn Simmons: is a treatment plan. But the thing that everyone with breast cancer [00:24:20] needs is a health plan. [00:24:21] Dr. Taz: Wow. [00:24:23] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And that's why I wrote my book. [00:24:25] That's why I wrote The Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer, because people need this. [00:24:30] We are not allowing women to make informed decisions right [00:24:35] now. Right. You can't make an informed decision if you don't have the information, and you [00:24:40] certainly don't have the whole story. [00:24:42] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So this is how I'm, [00:24:45] I'm changing, forever changing how we're treating breast cancer. [00:24:50] Because to do th- to continue doing it the way that we're doing it, [00:24:55] it's immoral. It really is. [00:24:57] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:24:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It's unethical. [00:24:58] Dr. Taz: And it's, the [00:25:00] numbers continue to go up in terms of- [00:25:02] Dr. Jenn Simmons: They do, but, but in, in [00:25:05] many ways, those numbers aren't real. [00:25:07] Dr. Taz: Really? [00:25:07] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And it's part and parcel to how we're [00:25:10] screening. Because if you use mammogram [00:25:15] as the way to screen- [00:25:16] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:25:16] Dr. Jenn Simmons: and please know- The [00:25:20] mammographic screening program, when it was started in the 1970s, I really do believe it [00:25:25] was started with the best of intention. It was just built [00:25:30] on very flawed thinking. [00:25:32] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So when it was started in the 1970s, [00:25:35] it was built on a foundational understanding- Mm-hmm ... that breast cancer growth is both [00:25:40] linear and predictable. Meaning that a breast cancer starts really [00:25:45] small, and it grows to some critical size, at which time it's more [00:25:50] likely to metastasize or spread. So if you could find it before it [00:25:55] reached that critical size- Right [00:25:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: you could save lives and save breasts. [00:26:00] This theory is intelligent. This theory is logical. It just doesn't [00:26:05] happen to be true. [00:26:05] Dr. Taz: Ugh. [00:26:07] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So breast cancer growth is neither linear [00:26:10] nor predictable. Breast cancer is all about biology, and it is what it [00:26:15] is from the very start. So if it's gonna be an aggressive process, it's gonna be an aggressive process [00:26:20] from the very start, and unfortunately, these women that [00:26:25] have aggressive breast cancers, they are not served at all by mammogram. [00:26:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:26:30] Mammogram does not change the trajectory of their lives. So why are [00:26:33] Dr. Taz: we still recommending it? [00:26:35] [00:26:35] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Well, I'll tell you. [00:26:36] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:26:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Excellent question. [00:26:38] Dr. Taz: I, I mean, it's just so [00:26:40] frustrating- Yeah ... 'cause as somebody who personally found a lump, went down this [00:26:45] nine-month journey of, "Okay, you have a lump. Now we need an MRI. Now we need an ultrasound.[00:26:50] [00:26:50] Dr. Taz: Now we need to go look at the other breast. Now we need to biopsy it." And just, like, walking through those [00:26:55] steps as a very busy woman, like so many women are- [00:26:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Mm-hmm ... [00:26:58] Dr. Taz: it took me six to nine months- Mm-hmm ... to [00:27:00] finally learn that it was negative. Mm-hmm. Right? But in the six to nine months, I'm like, "Is my will updated? [00:27:04] Dr. Taz: Is [00:27:05] everything okay?" Like, your brain starts to go in- [00:27:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes ... crazy spaces. And in the meantime, [00:27:10] you generated a lot of work- [00:27:12] Dr. Taz: I [00:27:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: did ... and business for the system. [00:27:13] Dr. Taz: I sure did. [00:27:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: You [00:27:15] had how many studies? At least five appointments- Five studies ... two [00:27:16] Dr. Taz: biopsies. [00:27:18] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yep. [00:27:19] Dr. Taz: Yep. [00:27:20] [00:27:20] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So it's all about the business of [00:27:25] medicine, unfortunately. [00:27:26] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:27:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So, you know- [00:27:30] When that program was started, they really did believe that [00:27:35] they were gonna save lives and save breasts. Right. And that's what we have been told for [00:27:40] decades. For 50 years, we have been told that mammograms save [00:27:45] lives and save breasts, and yet we've known since 1977 that that's [00:27:50] not true. [00:27:50] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:27:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So when you look at- [00:27:53] Dr. Taz: This makes me so mad. [00:27:54] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:27:55] It's infuriating. So when you look at no matter how many [00:28:00] mammograms we do every year, the exact same number of women die of breast cancer. [00:28:05] We are not impacting the bottom line. No matter how many mammograms we do every [00:28:10] year, the same exact number of women present with aggressive disease. [00:28:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: These are the [00:28:15] women that are not impacted by mammogram. The only women that are [00:28:20] impacted by mammogram are the women who don't have aggressive disease, [00:28:25] and for those women, mammogram doesn't matter 'cause they are gonna do [00:28:30] well anyway. [00:28:31] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:28:31] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So let's look at the large scale studies- Okay ... because I think that that [00:28:35] is the most important and the most demonstrative So [00:28:40] looking at the Swedish trial, 600,000 women, they have universal healthcare, so [00:28:45] everyone- Right [00:28:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: has the same access, everyone has the same care. [00:28:50] 300,000 are screened with mammogram, 300,000 are just getting physical examination. [00:28:55] The same exact number of women die of breast cancer in both groups. [00:28:59] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:29:00] [00:29:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And the only difference is in the women that screen with mammogram, they have [00:29:05] 20 to 30% more breast cancers. [00:29:08] Dr. Taz: What's going on there? [00:29:09] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So [00:29:10] it's either that mammogram is causing them or mammogram is picking up [00:29:15] things that would have never become clinically relevant, would have never [00:29:20] affected their lives, because they're not presenting in the other group, [00:29:25] right? So we are treating [00:29:30] 20 to 30% of breast cancers, of screen-detected breast cancers [00:29:35] unnecessarily, and treatment for breast cancer is [00:29:40] not benign. [00:29:40] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:29:41] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Now, there was another large scale study, the Canadian Breast [00:29:45] Cancer Screening Study, that, you know, maybe when [00:29:50] you look at all women across the board, maybe it's not beneficial, but maybe young [00:29:55] women, maybe it's beneficial in young women. We're hearing a lot now about- Right ... we should screen early- Younger and younger [00:29:59] Dr. Jenn Simmons: and screen [00:30:00] often, right? Right. So let's look, right? 90,000 [00:30:05] women, ages 40 to 59, 45,000 [00:30:10] screen with mammogram, 45,000 just have physical examination. [00:30:15] Same exact outcome. The same exact number of women die of breast [00:30:20] cancer in each group, and the only difference is if you screen with [00:30:25] mammogram, 20 to 30% increased risk of being diagnosed with breast cancer. [00:30:29] Dr. Taz: [00:30:30] It's the same as the other [00:30:30] Dr. Jenn Simmons: study. The same as the other study So [00:30:35] now we know. Mammograms do not save lives, and if you [00:30:40] screen with mammogram, and the more mammograms you have, the higher [00:30:45] your likelihood is of being diagnosed with breast cancer. Mammograms do not [00:30:50] save lives. Oh [00:30:50] Dr. Taz: my gosh, I have so many high-risk, quote-unquote, "high-risk patients," right, [00:30:55] that are told to get mammograms every six months. [00:30:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes. Do you know why? [00:31:00] [00:31:00] Dr. Taz: I'm [00:31:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: afraid of the[00:31:05] [00:31:05] Dr. Jenn Simmons: answer. It's the one way to guarantee that they will get into the system. Mm. That's the one way to guarantee that they will become a patient. [00:31:10] It's horrible. And I do think that there are a lot of doctors that are [00:31:15] participating in this system unknowingly. [00:31:17] Dr. Taz: Of course. Yeah. [00:31:18] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Because, you know, when we [00:31:20] were in medical school- We're trained a certain way. [00:31:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah ... we are trained- Right ... and we are taught- [00:31:24] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:31:24] Dr. Jenn Simmons: that mammograms [00:31:25] save lives. I mean, have you ever heard anything different? No. No. Right? Like, the things that [00:31:30] I say all the time are considered by many like heresy. [00:31:34] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:31:34] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:31:35] And I get it, because if you never looked into the data, you wouldn't know. [00:31:40] You wouldn't know. [00:31:40] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And for all of those years that I was a breast cancer surgeon, because I [00:31:45] did leave surgery in 2019- [00:31:46] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:31:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: because I knew that I could not stay- [00:31:49] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:31:49] Dr. Jenn Simmons: in this [00:31:50] system. [00:31:50] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:31:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That we were actually hurting people So [00:31:55] I never questioned. You know, when you're, when the [00:32:00] people that you admire the most teach you this, [00:32:05] and when you're in medical school, you're looking up to these giants- Absolutely [00:32:09] Dr. Jenn Simmons: of [00:32:10] industry. [00:32:10] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:32:10] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Giants. [00:32:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:32:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Why would I ever think that... You, you [00:32:15] trust that they've done the due diligence. Right. And if they're telling me they save lives, then they save lives. [00:32:20] Right. And they're telling me that early diagnosis saves lives, then I believe it. [00:32:23] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:32:24] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Just doesn't [00:32:25] happen to be true. Now, listen, if we're not saving lives, but we're [00:32:30] saving breasts, this is a worthwhile endeavor, right? [00:32:33] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Because [00:32:35] after all, no matter how you try to prepare a [00:32:40] woman for mastectomy, you cannot. Those scars run [00:32:45] so deep. It's [00:32:46] Dr. Taz: horrific. [00:32:46] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It's horrific. They will never ever, [00:32:50] ever, for the rest of their lives, once they've had a mastectomy, they'll never [00:32:55] forget that they had breast cancer. There is a daily constant [00:33:00] reminder- [00:33:00] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm [00:33:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: that they've had breast cancer. So if we can save breasts, [00:33:05] that's a worthwhile endeavor. Yeah. So let's look at the data. When we started to [00:33:10] screen with mammogram, did the mastectomy rate go down? [00:33:15] And the answer is no. In fact, it increased by [00:33:20] 20%. [00:33:20] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:33:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So we're not saving lives. We're not saving [00:33:25] breasts. What are we doing? [00:33:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Well, you asked, where's all [00:33:30] this breast cancer coming from? [00:33:31] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:33:31] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Well, some of it is coming from the mammogram [00:33:35] because even though we gave it a lovely name, mammogram, picture of the breast- [00:33:39] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:33:40] [00:33:40] Dr. Jenn Simmons: it's an X-ray. It's an X-ray to what is [00:33:45] arguably one of the most vulnerable tissues of the body, because the breast [00:33:50] is one of the organs, and the thyroid, these are our canaries in the coal mine. [00:33:54] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:33:54] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:33:55] Right? These are very environmentally sensitive organs. And what do [00:34:00] we do with a mammogram? We put that organ under 20 to 50 pounds of [00:34:05] pressure- [00:34:05] Dr. Taz: Mm ... [00:34:06] Dr. Jenn Simmons: and then we radiate it And we do it every year for [00:34:10] good measure, and sometimes we do it more than once a year. So [00:34:15] listen, I am not saying that one mammogram is going to cause breast cancer. [00:34:19] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:34:20] No, of course not. But who gets one mammogram? [00:34:23] Dr. Taz: Right. So what do we do? [00:34:25] You know, I'm thinking about all the women out there who have [00:34:30] breast cancer in their family- Mm-hmm ... and are terrified. [00:34:32] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Mm-hmm. [00:34:33] Dr. Taz: Or they have a friend that they've [00:34:35] lost to breast cancer, and we need some way- I [00:34:39] Dr. Jenn Simmons: know ... [00:34:39] Dr. Taz: of [00:34:40] monitoring what's happening- I know [00:34:42] Dr. Taz: with, well, first of all, we can get into a really long conversation about overall health, [00:34:45] but when it comes to breast health in, you know, specifically, what's [00:34:50] the, what's the right step? Where do we start? Yeah. What's the age to start? Yeah. [00:34:54] Dr. Jenn Simmons: How [00:34:54] Dr. Taz: [00:34:55] frequently? These are- What- ... [00:34:55] Dr. Jenn Simmons: great, amazing questions ... what do we do? [00:34:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So I'm going to start off [00:35:00] with my tagline, which is breast health is health. [00:35:03] Dr. Taz: Of course. [00:35:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And the very same [00:35:05] things that you're gonna do to have healthy breasts are also going to give you a healthy brain, [00:35:10] healthy mood, healthy heart, healthy gut, healthy skin, healthy bones, healthy [00:35:15] joints, healthy everything. [00:35:16] Dr. Jenn Simmons: 'Cause it's all connected. Right? 'Cause we're all connected. So, yeah. We're just one being. Now, [00:35:20] the question is, how do you screen for breast cancer? Right. Right? [00:35:25] Because after all, breast cancer is probably the [00:35:30] thing that women fear most, despite the fact that women die [00:35:35] of cardiovascular disease- More [00:35:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: exponentially more. That's [00:35:38] Dr. Taz: the number one, right. [00:35:38] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah. Exponentially [00:35:40] more. From the age of 30 on, exponentially more than they die of breast [00:35:45] cancer, and yet the fear is absolutely positively [00:35:50] centered around breast cancer, and I get it. Okay? I get it. But [00:35:55] we've been so conditioned to think that we have to suffer through this current system, and it's a [00:36:00] lie. [00:36:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It's not true. You can safely, effectively screen [00:36:05] for breast cancer, and then we have to talk about prevention. Mm-hmm. Because that is the most- Of course ... important [00:36:10] thing. Yes, definitely. And early detection, even though I have early detection programs [00:36:15] built all into my programming, early detection is not prevention. [00:36:19] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:36:20] Prevention is prevention. [00:36:21] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:36:22] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And early detection, I mean, the horse is [00:36:25] out of the barn. [00:36:25] Dr. Taz: Totally. [00:36:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? [00:36:26] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:36:27] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So how do we screen safely for [00:36:30] breast cancer? Because it is unethical to [00:36:35] expose a healthy women, a healthy woman and healthy breasts [00:36:40] to radiation. So I don't think anyone should have a screening mammogram [00:36:45] ever. [00:36:45] Dr. Taz: Oh my gosh. [00:36:46] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Ever. [00:36:47] Dr. Taz: Okay, that in itself is going to rock [00:36:50] everybody's world. [00:36:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes, I get it. [00:36:51] Dr. Taz: No screening mammograms- [00:36:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: No screening mammograms ... ever. [00:36:55] And you don't need them. [00:36:56] Dr. Taz: So [00:36:56] Dr. Jenn Simmons: what is- So here's my screening ma- paradigm. Three things [00:37:00] First, I think every woman should be doing self-breast examination. [00:37:04] Dr. Taz: [00:37:05] Mm-hmm. [00:37:06] Dr. Jenn Simmons: No one is ever gonna know you better than you know yourself. [00:37:09] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:37:10] I have a newsflash: every single woman thinks her breasts are lumpy. It's [00:37:15] okay. Own your lumps, right? Just- [00:37:17] Dr. Taz: That should be a tagline: own your lumps. [00:37:19] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Own [00:37:20] [00:37:20] Dr. Taz: your lumps. Nice. I love it. Right? It's so- [00:37:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: If you know what your breasts feel like when they're normal, [00:37:25] you will recognize the abnormal, I promise you, okay? [00:37:28] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So own your [00:37:30] lumps once a month, day seven of your cycle if you are [00:37:35] premenopausal. If you're postmenopausal, feel them on the first, right? Just do it during a [00:37:40] time that you know you're gonna do it. You don't have to examine your breasts every day. Nothing's changing that [00:37:45] quickly. Just examine- Just do it [00:37:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: them once a month. [00:37:48] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:37:50] [00:37:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: The second thing is there's a test now called the Auria test. [00:37:53] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:37:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:37:55] A-U-R-I-A. This is the tears test. Have you heard of it? [00:37:57] Dr. Taz: No. [00:37:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: This test is amazing. The Auria [00:37:59] Dr. Taz: [00:38:00] test. [00:38:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Auria. [00:38:00] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:38:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: A-U-R-I-A. They're auria.care. Okay. And I actually have a code [00:38:05] for everyone to use, which makes this test very affordable. [00:38:07] Dr. Jenn Simmons: My code is DRJENN20. [00:38:10] Okay. D-R-J-E-N-N-20 makes this test very, very affordable. It's an at [00:38:15] home test. Get, gets sent to your house. It's a little piece of paper that you tuck [00:38:20] inside of your eyelid, close your eye for five minutes, take the [00:38:25] paper out, put it in a tube, send it off to the company. You get a result a week and a half later. [00:38:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It [00:38:30] is measuring for these proteins, these inflammatory proteins that are [00:38:35] present 93% of the time in women who have breast cancer. [00:38:39] Dr. Taz: That [00:38:40] is fascinating. [00:38:41] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Fascinating, right? These are the S100A8 and [00:38:45] S100A9 proteins. Now, these proteins are found in other inflammatory [00:38:50] conditions. Right. That's definitely true. So the sensitivity of this test [00:38:55] is 93%, which is better than any of the imaging except for maybe an MRI. [00:38:59] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:39:00] [00:39:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But better than a mammogram, better, e- m- far better- Better ... than a [00:39:05] mammogram. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. So 93% sensitivity. The specificity [00:39:10] is 58%, which means that 42% of the time, even if you [00:39:15] don't have breast cancer, this test is gonna be positive. You're gonna get a clinically significant result. [00:39:20] However, there are no false positives on this test because if you test [00:39:25] positive for these proteins, you have the inflammatory precursors to breast [00:39:30] cancer. [00:39:30] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Do you know what this is? [00:39:31] Dr. Taz: No. [00:39:32] Dr. Jenn Simmons: This is opportunity. You [00:39:35] can go have imaging, and if you don't have a breast cancer, what you [00:39:40] have is the opportunity to prevent a diagnosis. You've been given a gift. [00:39:45] You know. [00:39:46] Dr. Taz: So we should all be doing this. [00:39:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: We should all be doing this, and you can [00:39:50] be doing it twice a year. [00:39:51] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:39:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And we tell people to start at 30, and [00:39:55] do it twice a year. And if you have a clinically significant result, [00:40:00] my book- Yeah ... The Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer. And I have the breast cancer [00:40:05] prevention program. So take my course. Turn this train [00:40:10] around. And you can turn it around. You have the ability. [00:40:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes. [00:40:12] Dr. Taz: Yeah. That's the- Yes ... that's the message of hope- Yes ... and [00:40:15] moving us out of this fear-based space, you know? Yes. So. [00:40:18] Dr. Jenn Simmons: We can prevent [00:40:20] this diagnosis. [00:40:21] Dr. Taz: That is incredible, and I am hoping everybody who's [00:40:25] hearing this is motivated. [00:40:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes. [00:40:27] Dr. Taz: Now let me ask you a question Would this [00:40:30] also correlate to just general inflammation in the body, like a CRP- Not, [00:40:34] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:40:35] not- [00:40:35] Dr. Taz: a sed rate? [00:40:35] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Not so much. [00:40:36] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:40:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So what, what the company [00:40:40] has seen it correlate with is if you have inflammatory [00:40:45] bowel disease- Yeah ... like Crohn's- Right ... or ulcerative colitis, if you are [00:40:50] in a current flare, that can be your false positive. [00:40:55] Mm. So if you're going to do this test and you have [00:41:00] that condition, I would not do it at the same time. [00:41:03] Dr. Taz: Gotcha. [00:41:04] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But [00:41:05] again, there are going to be what, what s- a [00:41:10] naysayer would say false positives. [00:41:12] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:41:13] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I will say there are [00:41:15] none, right? Like, if you have- Because [00:41:17] Dr. Taz: the, it's trying to tell you something. [00:41:18] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes. [00:41:18] Dr. Taz: Yeah. Yeah. [00:41:19] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It, [00:41:20] it's telling you that you have the inflammatory precursors to breast cancer, [00:41:25] and you have the ability to [00:41:30] do things to negate those inflammatory- So let's- [00:41:34] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:41:35] factors ... [00:41:35] Dr. Taz: I know it's all in your book, and I encourage everybody to get the book, especially if you've been concerned about your breast [00:41:40] health or it's just within your family or any of those type- Yes ... of things. If you took [00:41:45] maybe three top tips- [00:41:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah ... [00:41:47] Dr. Taz: to turn this train around, [00:41:50] you've gotten a positive when it comes to inflammatory proteins that are marking breast [00:41:55] cancer. [00:41:55] Dr. Taz: Maybe you've gotten a positive on a screening study of some kind. What are three things you would [00:42:00] tell people to do? [00:42:01] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Well, first I want you to know that if you have a clinically significant result, [00:42:05] you should definitely get imaging. So the imaging that I recommend is [00:42:10] a QT scan. I have pers- Perfection Imaging Centers- Mm-hmm [00:42:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: in [00:42:15] Pennsylvania, in California. I'm opening up 50 more in the next- It's incredible ... five years. Yeah. So [00:42:20] everyone who wants access to this scan can get access to this scan. [00:42:25] This uses sound waves tr- sound wave technology transmitted through a warm [00:42:30] water bath- [00:42:30] Dr. Taz: Wow ... [00:42:31] Dr. Jenn Simmons: that collects 200,000 times more data points than [00:42:35] MRI and creates a true 3D reconstruction of the breast. [00:42:39] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So in as [00:42:40] little as 20 minutes, in a spa-like experience, you can have your breasts [00:42:45] screened in a sensitive, specific, accurate way. [00:42:49] Dr. Taz: So [00:42:50] more smashing- [00:42:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: No more smashing ... and grabbing- No pain ... and all of that ... no radiation, [00:42:55] no compression, none of it. None of it. It is a beautiful [00:43:00] spa-like experience. And you [00:43:00] Dr. Taz: do this once a year? [00:43:01] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Once a year. [00:43:02] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:43:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Once a year. So [00:43:05] everyone who has a clinically significant result should go get imaging. Now- [00:43:10] When we're talking about prevention- [00:43:13] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:43:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: or [00:43:15] even you're newly diagnosed, right? There, there are [00:43:20] many things that I think about in terms of how do you start [00:43:25] to build your health? Because when you build your health, disease goes away. [00:43:28] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:43:30] [00:43:30] Dr. Jenn Simmons: If you're purely talking about prevention, I think [00:43:35] that you certainly need to think about what you're eating and what you're drinking, because [00:43:40] 80% of our exposures to the outside world are through what we eat and what we drink. [00:43:44] Dr. Taz: [00:43:45] Mm. [00:43:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So I think it's very important to look at your diet, to know [00:43:50] that you're eating in a nourishing way, you're minimizing processed foods.[00:43:55] [00:43:55] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I don't get into the diet wars. [00:43:56] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:43:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So, you know, I'm not, I'm not on the [00:44:00] side of the vegans. Right. I'm not on the side of the carnivores. Right. I'm not on any one side. [00:44:05] I personally am plant-based because that's what works for me, that's what makes [00:44:10] me feel good, and that's what nourishes me, but I'm not judging anyone else, [00:44:15] right? [00:44:15] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But- [00:44:15] Dr. Taz: Has there, has there been anything linked directly from a food [00:44:20] standpoint to increase in these inflammatory proteins or [00:44:25] increases in breast cancer? Absolutely. We've seen some recent stuff around alcohol. Yeah. We've seen some stuff around sugar. So alcohol [00:44:30] is [00:44:30] Dr. Jenn Simmons: a big one. [00:44:31] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:44:31] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Alcohol is a big one. Um, and you [00:44:35] mentioned sugar. [00:44:35] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Mm-hmm. So I will say that at this last A4M- [00:44:40] Yeah ... the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, the focus of this [00:44:45] talk, the focus of this conference was metabolic disease. [00:44:50] Right. And my talk was about metabolic disease and breast cancer, because the [00:44:55] truth is that most breast cancer is a result of long-standing [00:45:00] metabolic dysfunction. [00:45:01] Dr. Taz: Mm. So many things are tying right back to metabolic disease- [00:45:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Absolutely, without question ... [00:45:04] Dr. Taz: and [00:45:05] higher blood sugar levels, right? Yes. When we talk about Alzheimer's, we talk about autoimmune disease, we talk about- Blood [00:45:10] sugar [00:45:10] Dr. Jenn Simmons: levels ... PCOS, endometriosis Triglycerides All of [00:45:13] Dr. Taz: it. [00:45:13] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? Yeah. Like, this [00:45:15] all is tying in. [00:45:17] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And quite frankly, [00:45:20] if we screened for metabolic disease with the same interest [00:45:25] and vigor that we screen for breast cancer, we would all be in a very [00:45:30] different place, because that is prevention. Mm-hmm. Because the metabolic [00:45:35] dysfunction presents decades before the breast cancer diagnosis. [00:45:40] We should be screening for metabolic disease like it's our [00:45:45] job. [00:45:45] Dr. Taz: And what would you screen? 'Cause there are many people that are skinny fat. They're not necessarily overweight. [00:45:50] Yes, [00:45:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I know. [00:45:50] Dr. Taz: They're just high blood sugar. Mm-hmm. High lipids. Yeah. Like, [00:45:55] what are the things? [00:45:56] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So what I'm always looking for- Right ... and this is part of [00:46:00] every evaluation that I ever do with any patient- [00:46:03] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm [00:46:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I'm looking at fasting [00:46:05] glucose, although I'll argue that that is a late finding. Mm-hmm. When you start to bump your glucose, [00:46:10] the horse is out of the barn. [00:46:11] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:46:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I'm looking at fasting insulin. [00:46:14] Dr. Taz: Yep. [00:46:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:46:15] I'm looking at A1C, but fasting insulin is a much more sensitive marker than fasting [00:46:20] glucose because your pancreas can compensate- [00:46:23] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm [00:46:23] Dr. Jenn Simmons: for a while [00:46:25] before your, before your glucose starts to be abnormal. So I'm looking at [00:46:30] hemoglobin A1C, which is a three-month average- Right ... of your, of your- Blood [00:46:34] Dr. Taz: sugar ... blood sugar. [00:46:35] What's your goal with that usually? [00:46:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Under five. [00:46:37] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:46:38] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I'm picky, though. [00:46:39] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:46:39] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I, [00:46:40] I run a tight ship. [00:46:41] Dr. Taz: Yeah, I w- No, that's exactly what I recommend as well. [00:46:43] Dr. Taz: Trying to get under five, but [00:46:45] so many people are at 5.6. [00:46:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I know. [00:46:47] Dr. Taz: Which is, quote-unquote, "normal." [00:46:49] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I [00:46:49] Dr. Taz: know. You know? [00:46:50] So. [00:46:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah, so our normal includes 95% [00:46:55] of our population. I'm not looking to be normal. Right. I am exceptional. I [00:47:00] [00:47:00] Dr. Taz: love that. [00:47:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I expect everyone in my ecosystem to be the [00:47:05] exception. [00:47:05] Dr. Taz: The exception. Yeah, I love it. [00:47:07] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Um, so I'm looking at that. I'm [00:47:10] looking at triglycerides, um, 'cause that is- Right ... how your liver is handling the [00:47:15] sugar. I'm looking at HDL, and specifically, I'm looking at a [00:47:20] triglyceride to HDL ratio, and they should look like one another, right? Mm-hmm. Like, [00:47:25] it should be pretty close to 1.1. If you're above [00:47:30] 1.5, you're not in good shape. [00:47:32] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And then I am looking at [00:47:35] blood pressure. [00:47:36] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:47:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I'm looking at waist circumference. I'm looking at a waist to hip [00:47:40] ratio. Because in women, we should have a, a [00:47:45] waist to hip ratio that is .8. [00:47:47] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:47:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: We really should. Now, if you're a [00:47:50] very muscular woman and you're on the straighter side, [00:47:55] your ratio might not be there. [00:47:57] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:47:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But most women should have [00:48:00] a waist to hip ratio that looks like .8. . [00:48:03] Dr. Taz: 8. [00:48:04] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah. [00:48:05] So I, I'm looking at these things, and they're very easy to measure. [00:48:08] Dr. Taz: Right. These things are- These are routine. [00:48:10] These should be routine- Yes ... from 21 on, honestly. Yeah. Or even i- in our [00:48:15] teenagers. Like, we should be screening for metabolic disease from the get-go. [00:48:19] Dr. Taz: Yes. [00:48:20] Because it's really an epidemic, but then it looks different on everybody. For some [00:48:25] people it's PCOS, for some people it's autoimmune disease, for somebody [00:48:30] else it's breast cancer. So I think this is something that everybody can [00:48:35] do. This is not, you know, out of our reach, difficult, high maintenance [00:48:40] stuff. [00:48:40] Dr. Taz: This is very much within everybody's reach. It's not rocket [00:48:42] Dr. Jenn Simmons: science, [00:48:42] Dr. Taz: right? But let's talk, let's, let's not leave the [00:48:45] alcohol, because I still get this question today. You know, where, [00:48:50] where do you land in the alcohol conversation when it comes to breast health? [00:48:54] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Okay. [00:48:55] Don't shoot the messenger, okay? [00:48:56] Dr. Taz: I'm probably on the same page as you, but go [00:48:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: ahead. [00:48:59] Dr. Taz: All right. [00:48:59] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:49:00] So according to, I'm gonna blame the Am- American Cancer Society. I love it. Okay? I love it. So according to the [00:49:05] American Cancer Society, there is no safe amount of alcohol for women. [00:49:10] Okay? Nice. Now listen, women and men are not [00:49:15] equal, and I hate to say it, because I am a very high performing woman. [00:49:18] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:49:18] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But we are not equal. [00:49:20] [00:49:20] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:49:20] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Men actually- I don't [00:49:21] Dr. Taz: think we wanna be ... [00:49:22] Dr. Jenn Simmons: men actually can drink alcohol. [00:49:24] Dr. Taz: They [00:49:25] can? [00:49:25] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Mm-hmm. [00:49:25] Dr. Taz: You don't think we're seeing the same inflammation and the same insulin resistance and- So [00:49:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: they [00:49:30] should not be doing it excessively either. [00:49:32] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:49:33] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But women [00:49:35] are not able to metabolize everything they need to metabolize if they also have [00:49:40] alcohol in the mix. [00:49:41] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:49:41] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So, uh, one ounce of alcohol is [00:49:45] going to take your liver eight hours to get through. [00:49:48] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:49:48] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Okay? We just [00:49:50] have one washing machine. If you have two loads of laundry every [00:49:55] day, and then suddenly you're putting in a third but you can only get [00:50:00] through two, you're just, it's just gonna pile up and pile up and pile up. [00:50:04] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That's what's [00:50:05] happening in women- [00:50:06] Dr. Taz: Mm ... [00:50:06] Dr. Jenn Simmons: who add alcohol into the mix. [00:50:10] Because we have more hormones to metabolize than they do, because [00:50:15] we just simply don't have the capacity. We don't have the capacity [00:50:20] to get through alcohol plus everything else. [00:50:25] And we also expose ourself to much more toxins- Right ... many more toxins than men do.[00:50:30] [00:50:30] Dr. Jenn Simmons: You know, men are not putting on their face and doing their hair and putting [00:50:35] products- Lotioning up ... all over their bodies. Constantly, yeah. They're just not doing it. [00:50:38] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:50:38] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So they're exposed to [00:50:40] less, and they have more capacity. [00:50:42] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:50:43] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So [00:50:45] I'm not saying you're never gonna have another champagne cocktail again, okay? [00:50:49] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:50:50] Your birthday, your anniversary, okay. [00:50:52] Dr. Taz: Special occasions. [00:50:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Special occasions. [00:50:55] But you should not have more than one drink at a time. You should not drink on [00:51:00] consecutive days. Can you take a vacation from your life? [00:51:05] Absolutely. But a vacation from your life is a, like a week. [00:51:08] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:51:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? [00:51:09] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:51:09] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Don't let a [00:51:10] week turn into a month, which turns into six months, which turns into a year.[00:51:15] [00:51:15] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And alcohol is not a stress management tool. [00:51:20] Okay? [00:51:21] Dr. Taz: Which so many women use- [00:51:22] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That's exactly right ... [00:51:23] Dr. Taz: men and women use today. Yeah. [00:51:24] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I [00:51:25] think that that is a large part of the epidemic that we're seeing. [00:51:30] "Oh, I just have a glass of wine at dinner." [00:51:31] Dr. Taz: Yeah. So many women cook with wine. So many [00:51:35] women wind down with wine. [00:51:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes. [00:51:37] Dr. Taz: So many of us celebrate- [00:51:38] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That- ... [00:51:38] Dr. Taz: with [00:51:39] Dr. Jenn Simmons: alcohol [00:51:40] in some form or fashion ... I mean, it's how, it's how so many people cap their day. [00:51:43] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:51:44] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So many [00:51:45] people. I actually had a, a patient fire me over this very issue. Are you serious? Mm-hmm. Oh, [00:51:49] Dr. Taz: [00:51:50] wow. People are sensitive [00:51:51] Dr. Jenn Simmons: about this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. She's a nutritionist. [00:51:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah. And I think it's [00:51:55] very hard to tell people who that's their job, their [00:52:00] job, right? Yeah. And she was a cap your [00:52:05] day with alcohol person. Mm-hmm. She had a glass of ... That was how she [00:52:10] capped her day. [00:52:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:52:11] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? At the end of the day, she would have a glass of wine while she was cooking [00:52:15] dinner. It was her thing. [00:52:15] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:52:17] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And she got a breast cancer diagnosis, and [00:52:20] you can imagine, I mean, she's a nutritionist, her diet's beautiful. [00:52:23] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:52:24] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It's beautiful. [00:52:24] Dr. Taz: [00:52:25] Right. [00:52:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I said to her, "You have to stop drinking." She said, "What are you talking about?" [00:52:30] I said, "You, at least in this acute phase, like, you, you can't [00:52:35] drink, you have breast cancer." [00:52:36] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:52:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I think a lot of women don't even know [00:52:40] the connection that alcohol has to breast cancer. It is the [00:52:45] number one modifiable risk factor for breast cancer. Wow. Because it's a [00:52:50] lot easier to stop drinking alcohol than it is to lose weight. [00:52:54] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:52:55] [00:52:55] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Because it's age, obesity, alcohol. [00:52:58] Dr. Taz: Those are the three big ones. [00:52:59] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:53:00] Mm-hmm. And by age- Those are the three modifiable risk factors ... clarify age. [00:53:03] Dr. Taz: What's [00:53:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: going on there? Yeah, so [00:53:05] the beautiful privilege of living longer [00:53:10] is, is beautiful in almost every way except that every year [00:53:15] longer you live, your risk of breast cancer goes up. And why is [00:53:17] Dr. Taz: that? [00:53:18] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Because we're all [00:53:20] born with an ability, a finite ability, [00:53:25] to tolerate toxins. [00:53:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So you're handed, at birth, you're handed your bucket, [00:53:30] and you start filling it, and start filling it, and start filling it, and [00:53:35] everyone will get to the point where their ability to clear the [00:53:40] toxins is not as good as the toxins that they have. As it needs to be. Right. [00:53:45] So you're, it, breast cancer [00:53:50] Is a reflection of toxic overload. [00:53:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It's, you've, you've lost the battle Okay, we [00:53:55] gotta say [00:53:55] Dr. Taz: that again. [00:53:55] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah. [00:53:55] Dr. Taz: Breast cancer is a reflection of toxic overload. [00:53:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes. Breast [00:54:00] cancer is a metabolic disease and [00:54:05] Sugar and all- Alcohol and- That's, that's- ... inflammation ... that's a toxin, right? Right. [00:54:07] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:54:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And it's an [00:54:10] environmental disease. So what happens in the breast, breast cancer is a [00:54:15] normal response to an abnormal environment. [00:54:17] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:54:18] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And the breast, [00:54:20] the reason that the breast is the canary in the coal mine, the reason that the breast is such a [00:54:25] reflection of how toxic your environment is, is because the [00:54:30] place that we store our toxins is in our fat cells. [00:54:32] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:54:33] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And when you look at the makeup of [00:54:35] the breast as an organ, it is glandular [00:54:40] tissue, that's the milk producing tissue, it's fat, and even if you have [00:54:45] dense breasts, you still have a lot of fat in your breast. [00:54:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right. Right? It's still, the majority of your [00:54:50] breast is still gonna be fat. Connective tissue all in a skin [00:54:55] envelope. So if you have the abundance [00:55:00] of the cells in the breast be fat cells, and fat cells are where we store our [00:55:05] toxins, then your glandular cells, your, your milk producing [00:55:10] cells, they are literally sitting next door to the garbage dump, [00:55:15] right? [00:55:15] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It's like living next door to a hoarder. Mm-hmm. Eventually, it's gonna spill over [00:55:20] onto your lawn. And when that happens, it damages the [00:55:25] cells, damages the DNA. Those cells feel threatened, and they go into survival mode. [00:55:30] [00:55:30] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:55:30] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That's all breast cancer is. This is a transformation [00:55:35] from the chemistry of joy to the chemistry of stress. [00:55:39] Dr. Taz: And [00:55:40] so I know so many more patients are coming in with, like, the triple negative diagnosis of breast cancer- Mm-hmm ... [00:55:45] which I think is purely, like, environmental, toxic [00:55:48] Dr. Jenn Simmons: load. It is. Of course it is. [00:55:49] Dr. Taz: Is that [00:55:50] different, though, from an ER, PR positive or hormone receptor positive cancer? Yeah. Is there any [00:55:55] differentiation between those? [00:55:56] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That's exactly what it is. It's a lack of differentiation. Mm. [00:56:00] It is a, "Okay, we just gotta turn these cells out. I am in serious [00:56:05] survival mode. Like, this environment is really toxic, and I just need to [00:56:10] survive, survive, survive. Don't care if I do it correctly." Because remember, [00:56:15] estrogen receptors, progesterone receptors, these are normal elements on a [00:56:20] breast cell. [00:56:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: A breast cell normally puts these receptors [00:56:25] up so that they can interact with the estrogen and progesterone, which are [00:56:30] normal physiologic hormones in our body. That's how the cell knows what to do. Mm. That's how [00:56:35] the cell gets its signaling. When we lose that, when that, when that [00:56:40] cell has become so transformed, so mutated, that we don't have that [00:56:45] system anymore, like, this is a really rogue cell. [00:56:49] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:56:50] [00:56:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That's what that means. [00:56:51] Dr. Taz: Gotcha. [00:56:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So when someone comes to me and says, "Well, I have a [00:56:55] hormone positive breast cancer," I'm like, "Great. You're not that abnormal." [00:56:59] Dr. Taz: Well, what does [00:57:00] it mean for women? You know, I get this question all the time: I've been diagnosed with breast cancer, [00:57:05] I've recovered from breast cancer, I have a family history of breast cancer. [00:57:09] Dr. Taz: Can I or [00:57:10] can I not do HRT? [00:57:11] Dr. Jenn Simmons: S- this is my love. This is the thing that [00:57:15] I love the most, that I love to talk about the most. I'm gonna share my story with you. Okay. [00:57:20] So I come from this breast cancer family. I finished my [00:57:25] training in 2003. I'm trained by a brilliant, brilliant man, probably [00:57:30] one of the first people to become a dedicated breast surgeon. [00:57:33] Dr. Jenn Simmons: He, he runs an [00:57:35] international think tank. He is just considered the grandfather of breast [00:57:40] surgery. His name is Dr. Gordon Schwartz. And in 2003, Gordon [00:57:45] Schwartz taught me three things. He taught me that hormones cause breast cancer. [00:57:49] Dr. Taz: [00:57:50] Mm-hmm. [00:57:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That the only women that should take hormones are those that [00:57:55] absolutely, positively cannot live without it, and in said [00:58:00] women, you should give them the smallest amount for the shortest amount of time.[00:58:05] [00:58:05] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And that's how I went through most of my career, believing that, because why would he [00:58:10] lie to me? That's [00:58:10] Dr. Taz: still out there. That's still [00:58:10] Dr. Jenn Simmons: out there. Yeah. And that was, that was the findings- Right ... of the Women's Health Initiative, right? [00:58:14] Dr. Taz: [00:58:15] Right, right. So- [00:58:16] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Who am I to question it? [00:58:19] Dr. Taz: [00:58:20] So [00:58:22] Dr. Jenn Simmons: A couple years go by, decades, couple [00:58:25] decades go by, and I do not go quietly into my good night. [00:58:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And [00:58:30] I literally have every single imaginable symptom [00:58:35] of menopause- Mm-hmm ... that you could think of. Mm-hmm. If you can think of it, I had it. [00:58:40] Walked into a room What the hell did I come in here for? Brain fog- Right? ... memory [00:58:45] loss- Like- ... bone [00:58:45] Dr. Taz: loss, rashes, hair loss. [00:58:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes. [00:58:47] Dr. Taz: We could go on forever. [00:58:48] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Dizziness. [00:58:49] Dr. Taz: Vertigo. [00:58:49] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:58:50] Yeah, vertigo. [00:58:51] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I mean, literally everything. I am the bitch in my [00:58:55] house. Yeah. I'm screaming at my children. I'm screaming at my husband. My relationship is suffering. [00:59:00] I'm, like, practically in tears all the time- Yeah ... trying to hold it together, trying to run a [00:59:05] practice. I mean, I am a disaster. It's a [00:59:07] Dr. Taz: lot, yeah. [00:59:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I'm at a [00:59:10] conference, and one of my friends comes up to me and she's like, "You know, Jen, [00:59:15] not for nothing, but you're not yourself." [00:59:17] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I just break down and I tell her all [00:59:20] about what's going on. She's like, "Well, why aren't you on hormones?" I said, "What are you talking about? I'm from [00:59:25] this breast cancer family. I can't go on hormones." She's like, "What? [00:59:30] That's not true. Have you read Estrogen Matters?" [00:59:32] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:59:34] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So I read [00:59:35] Estrogen Matters and it changed my life. [00:59:38] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And now I think, [00:59:40] "Well, maybe I should be doing some research on this. [00:59:45] Look at myself. Look at this data." As it turns out, the [00:59:50] data is not only there, but it's compelling for hormones. [00:59:55] So when we look at the population of women who take [01:00:00] hormone replacement- [01:00:01] Dr. Taz: Right ... [01:00:02] Dr. Jenn Simmons: and let's face it, if [01:00:05] you don't take hormone replacement, you get breast cancer. [01:00:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: If you do take hormone replacement, [01:00:10] you get breast cancer, right? Everyone gets breast cancer. But if you [01:00:15] take hormone replacement and you get breast cancer, you have better outcomes. [01:00:19] Dr. Taz: [01:00:20] Really? [01:00:20] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes. Why? Across the board, better survival. [01:00:25] Because, now they may be self-selecting- [01:00:28] Dr. Taz: Right ... [01:00:28] Dr. Jenn Simmons: because the people that [01:00:30] take hormones tend to- [01:00:31] Dr. Taz: Be a little bit more proactive- [01:00:32] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes [01:00:33] Dr. Jenn Simmons: right, about their health, right. And they, and they take care of [01:00:35] other things too. Right. Right? Right. So they may be self-selecting, but [01:00:40] in my opinion, okay, true, true, and unrelated. [01:00:43] Dr. Taz: Right. [01:00:43] Dr. Jenn Simmons: If they're having better [01:00:45] outcomes, we need to ask those questions why. [01:00:47] Dr. Taz: Right. [01:00:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? And it turns out that [01:00:50] they also have less heart disease. [01:00:51] Dr. Jenn Simmons: They also have less dementia. They have less [01:00:55] Alzheimer's. They have less fractures. [01:00:57] Dr. Taz: Wow. [01:00:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: These are the major things that women are dying [01:01:00] of. They're dying of heart disease. They're dying of Alzheimer's. They're dying of bone disease. Mm. [01:01:05] Right? So we need to be l- looking at this and saying, [01:01:10] "Well, are we really doing the right thing scaring women away from hormones?" [01:01:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [01:01:15] Because they're not getting more breast cancer, and they're not dying of breast cancer. [01:01:20] [01:01:20] Dr. Taz: So take your hormones. [01:01:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So take your hormones. [01:01:22] Dr. Taz: Even past- [01:01:23] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Now let's talk [01:01:25] about the women who have had- [01:01:26] Dr. Taz: Right ... [01:01:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: breast cancer, and specifically women who have had [01:01:30] hormone positive breast cancer because- I can't think of a single reason if [01:01:35] you had triple negative breast cancer that you should be denied hormones. [01:01:39] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [01:01:40] Mm-hmm. Like, the argument just isn't there. Mm-hmm. Their tumor was neither caused by hormones- Right ... [01:01:45] nor is it propagated by hormones. Right. So th- that should be an easy thing, even though [01:01:50] most, most providers, once they hear breast cancer, the answer is no, [01:01:55] because most providers don't know the difference between I don't know and no. [01:01:58] Dr. Taz: Right. [01:01:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So they just say no. So [01:01:59] Dr. Taz: they just [01:02:00] say no, yeah. [01:02:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But let's look at the data. 20 studies of women [01:02:05] who have had breast cancer, hormone positive breast cancer, and then [01:02:10] went on to take hormone replacement afterwards. No increase in [01:02:15] recurrence, no increase in metastatic disease, and [01:02:20] increase in long-term survival. [01:02:21] Dr. Taz: Mm. [01:02:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Because what's happening to these women [01:02:25] afterwards? This is the forgotten woman. This is the woman that I talk [01:02:30] to all day long. This is the woman who has been treated for breast [01:02:35] cancer, and she's told that she should be grateful to be alive. [01:02:37] Dr. Taz: Right. [01:02:38] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And she is grateful, [01:02:40] but it is very hard to feel grateful when you have brain fog, [01:02:45] when you can't sleep, when you're anxious, when you're scared, when you're having [01:02:50] palpitations. [01:02:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right. When your joints ache, your bones ache. And you're not [01:02:53] Dr. Taz: you. [01:02:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Everything aches. Yeah. [01:02:55] You've gained weight. Your clothes don't fit. You feel and look deformed. [01:03:00] You have painful sex. Sex is unwanted. You [01:03:05] have no libido. You have yeast infections, bladder infections, urinary tract [01:03:10] infections. When all of this is happening, it is very hard to feel [01:03:15] grateful. [01:03:16] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And yet we know from these studies that [01:03:20] hormone replacement is very safe when done correctly [01:03:25] and responsibly in the breast cancer population. [01:03:29] Dr. Taz: I mean, I [01:03:30] think again, this is yet another message of hope and encouragement that women can be [01:03:35] vital post a diagnosis. [01:03:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Absolutely. [01:03:38] Dr. Taz: And there are options. [01:03:40] What would you tell the women listening to us today who's, who's, who listens and is gonna walk [01:03:45] away and be told something totally different when they go into their exam [01:03:50] rooms or talk in their communities or things like that? [01:03:52] Dr. Taz: What is your hope, you [01:03:55] know, that someone can take away from today and then turn around and make it actionable for them? [01:03:59] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah. [01:04:00] I, I didn't get sick for no reason. [01:04:02] Dr. Taz: Mm. [01:04:02] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I know exactly why [01:04:05] I got sick. I got sick because I was put here to change the [01:04:10] way that we talk about breast cancer, to change the conversation around breast cancer. [01:04:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [01:04:15] I was put here to forever change how we diagnose, how we treat, and [01:04:20] how we screen for breast cancer. The way that we have been doing it, the [01:04:25] way that we have been approaching it is wrong, and we need to get back [01:04:30] to that woman sitting in front of us, because she deserves the right thing. [01:04:35] She deserves our care. [01:04:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: She deserves hope. You [01:04:40] have so much more power than you think. Do not give that power [01:04:45] away to someone who does not have your best interest at heart. This is all [01:04:50] about building health, and health does not happen in a doctor's [01:04:55] office. It doesn't happen in a chemotherapy suite, in a radiation suite. Health [01:05:00] happens at home with the things that you do every day, and only [01:05:05] you can make you healthy. [01:05:06] Dr. Taz: Wow. That's powerful, and I hope everybody [01:05:10] listening or watching can spread this message, right? [01:05:13] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Absolutely. [01:05:14] Dr. Taz: How long [01:05:15] will it d- in your estimation, is it gonna take for this standard of care- [01:05:20] to become the standard of care. [01:05:23] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Things are changing, [01:05:25] right? I mean, the old guard is still the old guard. [01:05:27] Dr. Taz: Right. [01:05:27] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I think [01:05:30] unless you have a real reason to change, most people are s- they're [01:05:35] just walking through their lives. [01:05:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right. [01:05:37] Dr. Taz: Right? [01:05:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right. But the, the, the [01:05:40] young up-and-comers, they're from a different place. Yeah. They have a different perspective. I've noticed [01:05:45] that too, [01:05:45] Dr. Taz: yep. [01:05:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And they're curious, and I think that that's the main thing for [01:05:50] all of us, is that we all have to maintain curiosity. [01:05:54] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:05:54] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Because [01:05:55] as the information changes, and it's changing every day, as [01:06:00] the information changes, our minds have to change, and we have to [01:06:05] be constantly open. [01:06:06] Dr. Jenn Simmons: You [01:06:07] Dr. Taz: have to be adaptive and flexible. Yes. This is crazy- Yes ... that you only walk between two [01:06:10] lines- [01:06:10] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes ... [01:06:11] Dr. Taz: when it comes to something as complex of our, as our bodies. [01:06:13] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And think about, you [01:06:15] know, this is what we talk about in the wellness space- Right ... in the longevity space- Right ... is that [01:06:20] you have to maintain flexibility. [01:06:22] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That's what keeps you young. That's what con- [01:06:25] continues to connect your mind and your body and your spirit. [01:06:29] Dr. Taz: Mm. [01:06:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It's that [01:06:30] flexibility, and we need to expand that across the board to how we [01:06:35] treat people- Love it ... to how we think about things, to how we build our health. [01:06:40] [01:06:40] Dr. Taz: Well, that is the mission of WHOLE+, so I could talk to you [01:06:45] probably for three more hours. [01:06:46] Dr. Taz: However, I don't wanna leave you without asking you this [01:06:50] question. What makes you whole? [01:06:54] Dr. Jenn Simmons: You know, [01:06:55] in, the older I get, the more that I value [01:07:00] my family. [01:07:01] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [01:07:02] Dr. Jenn Simmons: My, my... I'm gonna cry. Like, [01:07:05] my beautiful husband, my children, my grandchildren, my religion. [01:07:10] It's everything to me. [01:07:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah. And- [01:07:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: You're [01:07:12] Dr. Taz: gonna [01:07:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: make me [01:07:13] Dr. Taz: cry. [01:07:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah. [01:07:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I [01:07:15] mean, it's just the, the- [01:07:16] Dr. Taz: Ah ... [01:07:17] Dr. Jenn Simmons: the more you walk on this earth, the [01:07:20] smaller your world ends up getting. Yeah. Because what all you want in [01:07:25] the end is that beautiful relationship with the people that you love the most. [01:07:29] Dr. Taz: [01:07:30] You know, we have so many guests on this show, and everyone comes back to family. I think family is [01:07:35] the heart and the home and our sustenance and our fuel. [01:07:38] Dr. Taz: It's my mission to [01:07:40] heal families. It's my mission to get these messages out, to bring flexibility and creativity [01:07:45] back to medicine. I could not be more honored to have you here today, so thank [01:07:50] you so much. [01:07:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Thank you for having me. [01:07:51] Dr. Taz: And where can people find you? [01:07:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes, absolutely. So [01:07:55] The Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer, you can get this at Amazon. [01:07:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: If you are looking for [01:08:00] help on your breast cancer journey, realhealthmd.com. [01:08:05] I also have a podcast. It's called Keeping Abreast with Dr. Jen. We put out a new episode every week. You [01:08:10] are going to see- Amazing ... Dr. Taz on there very soon. And then if you are [01:08:15] looking for that scan that I was talking about, Perfection Imaging, and Perfection is [01:08:20] spelled with Q-T in the middle. [01:08:22] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And you can find me on all the [01:08:25] social channels at Dr. Jenn Simmons, and my Jenn has two [01:08:30] [01:08:30] Dr. Taz: Ns. Amazing. Thank you again, and thank you everyone else for listening and watching. [01:08:35] I'm hoping this message spreads out there and we really educate women on breast health [01:08:40] and breast care, and that it's actually a message of hope, not fear. [01:08:43] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes, [01:08:43] Dr. Taz: yes. Thank you. [01:08:44] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Absolutely. [01:08:45] Thank you. Thank you so much for listening and watching today's episode [01:08:49] Dr. Taz: of Whole [01:08:50] Plus. Be sure to share this episode with your friends and family. And if you haven't already, please take a moment to [01:08:55] subscribe to this podcast on YouTube or click the follow button on Apple, Spotify, or [01:09:00] wherever it is that you get your podcasts. [01:09:01] Dr. Taz: And don't forget to follow me on all social channels, [01:09:05] @drtazmd. Until next time, stay healthy and stay whole.