Latest / Not All Business / Try This One Thing To Become A Better Listener

Transcript

Try This One Thing To Become A Better Listener · Not All Business

• 0:00
  You may think you're a good listener.
• 0:02
  You're probably not, and it's not your fault.
• 0:04
  Your brain is literally working against you today.
• 0:08
  Allison O'Brien, a leading expert on listening
• 0:11
  intelligence, is here to explain why.
• 0:13
  You're also going to notice that I recorded today's episode from
• 0:16
  my van. Power was out, there was a crane
• 0:18
  above my house, and I was sitting in an REI camp chair in
• 0:21
  my driveway. But I still showed up, which is
• 0:25
  more than we can say about my listening skills.
• 0:27
  But thankfully we have Heather and Clay, but by the end of this
• 0:31
  episode, we are all going to have one new listening practice
• 0:35
  we can try tonight at the dinner table.
• 0:37
  We can be better listeners. So welcome to Not All Business,
• 0:41
  a podcast by two former CEO's who went from competitors to
• 0:44
  friends. I'm Blakely Graham and my Co
• 0:46
  host is Heather Cooper. And we're joined by our producer
• 0:49
  Clay Cornell. Now let's get down to business.
• 0:59
  Hi, Blakely. Clay and I were talking
• 1:01
  backstage, like, what are we going to talk about?
• 1:03
  And then you look. Like you're backstage, you just
• 1:05
  said backstage and you actually are giving backstage vibes right
• 1:08
  now. Are you about to turn around and
• 1:10
  like go on to like the stage of Hamilton or something?
• 1:12
  What's going on? Yeah, so the power is out today.
• 1:15
  So it's just been a day. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:18
  Like the power has been out all day.
• 1:19
  There's like this huge crane above my house putting in new
• 1:22
  utility poles, which is ridiculous.
• 1:24
  Just bury the lines, people Bury the lines because we're sitting
• 1:28
  in like a fire central place where one little spark of a
• 1:33
  power line and the whole town's going to go.
• 1:36
  But whatever, we're getting new utility poles and they took
• 1:39
  whatever. I took out my power all day.
• 1:41
  So I'm literally outside my driveway, inside my van.
• 1:46
  I've got the star link like. That's exciting.
• 1:49
  It's it's working so far. Your connection seems.
• 1:52
  Great. It's OK.
• 1:53
  I think the really cool thing is this means I can take the show
• 1:57
  on the road and that. Is like the.
• 1:59
  Dream come true. I'm so excited to take.
• 2:02
  Let's go to Mexico. Let's go to Mexico.
• 2:07
  Yes, yes, this will be the new mandatory Cinco de Mayo fun road
• 2:12
  trip to Mexico, not a business unfiltered Mexico version I.
• 2:18
  Cannot wait for last week's shows, reels or this week's
• 2:23
  show. I never know what week we're on
• 2:25
  to come out because the mandatory fun reel is so
• 2:29
  hysterical. OK, so wait, hang on a second.
• 2:32
  We'll take that like just a second because for people who
• 2:36
  haven't seen the reels, Heather had mandatory fun at her company
• 2:43
  and everybody who was compulsive wrong, it was fun.
• 2:49
  What's the correct word? Compulsatory.
• 2:51
  Compulsory. Compulsory.
• 2:54
  You were forced to celebrate Cinco de Mayo, which will go
• 2:57
  great in Mexico. And I also learned and listeners
• 3:02
  learned that you were also forced to celebrate Saint
• 3:06
  Patricks Day with green beer. You did have to sign a waiver
• 3:09
  that was. His alcohol culture.
• 3:11
  And I just don't approve it but. Yeah, open your fridge in your
• 3:17
  van. What do you got in your fridge
• 3:18
  in your van right now? I guarantee you have a six pack
• 3:21
  of Ipas. Sorry.
• 3:23
  Yeah. What is?
• 3:24
  Yeah, what? What is in the fridge?
• 3:25
  In your van. There I do have a working fridge
• 3:28
  in the van. I can't open it because my mic
• 3:30
  is like in front of it. There's usually like some spin
• 3:34
  drifts. In fact, I just pulled this one
• 3:37
  out. Nice.
• 3:39
  There'll be some wine and some like, not usually Schlitz.
• 3:46
  They'll be like a Mexican lager for Cinco de Mayo.
• 3:48
  Mandatory 5. And there it is.
• 3:50
  And a little, a little THC drink to like wind down, you know,
• 3:55
  over the campfire. For legal purposes.
• 3:59
  That's legal. It's legal.
• 4:01
  What is oh what does T stand for?
• 4:04
  For the love of goodness, I this is a no acronym this.
• 4:10
  Actually. No, I don't.
• 4:14
  Oh, it's the chemical. It's the chemical, isn't it?
• 4:17
  So it's like Theo 990 linacide ceramide.
• 4:22
  All right, you got that, Clay. Write that down in the notes.
• 4:26
  Tetrahydrine combinate. I think I just gave you like 3
• 4:30
  face products in one. OK, speaking.
• 4:33
  So that will that will be our 420 episode.
• 4:36
  Excuse me, Yes. I haven't tried those THC
• 4:40
  drinks, have you? So good, I love them.
• 4:42
  Really do they affect your do they affect your cognitive
• 4:46
  abilities? Are you drinking one right now?
• 4:52
  You are, aren't you guys, you motherfuckers, you get on, you
• 4:56
  get on early. I so last week I found out
• 4:59
  listeners that my two partners in crime have been meeting ahead
• 5:04
  of the show backstage. As Blakely just put it, that
• 5:07
  sounds. Glay and I show up very every
• 5:09
  week at the top of the hour on time for this show, and you're
• 5:13
  like rolling in 15 minutes later.
• 5:16
  No, no, no, I'm showing up on time.
• 5:19
  I know you're like 10 minutes early, but you're showing up
• 5:23
  early and I didn't know about it and I didn't know if there.
• 5:26
  Do you also have a side text chain without me?
• 5:28
  We actually had a whole meeting without you this week and made
• 5:31
  some major decision changes. Yeah.
• 5:34
  Thank you including for our our Mexico tour.
• 5:37
  I was going to say this. When you brought up the Mexico
• 5:39
  thing, I was like, you know, all these celebrities are making
• 5:44
  some type of like mezcal or tequila deal and we have to make
• 5:49
  some. We got to get some deal with a
• 5:52
  distillery in Mexico. And I think what we should do is
• 5:55
  we should, we should have our sub stack subscribers name the
• 6:02
  tequila that we come out with. I love this idea.
• 6:07
  Well well I was wondering, could we do a mix of like a beer with
• 6:12
  a little tequila in it? Do you ever have?
• 6:15
  Those Yeah, Mitchell. Michelada.
• 6:19
  I don't like those. Ohh, like those?
• 6:21
  Those have like the tomato stuff and like the.
• 6:23
  No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No.
• 6:25
  Are you thinking of a Bloody Mary, dumbass?
• 6:27
  No, there is a version with. Salado.
• 6:30
  But there's two version ass. Yeah.
• 6:33
  It isn't it called like a Cadillac Margarita where it like
• 6:37
  or cornita where you like you flip the.
• 6:40
  Cornita. The bottle upside down in the
• 6:43
  Margarita Margarita and then it slowly filters through.
• 6:45
  Is that what you're talking about?
• 6:47
  Because I. Don't know, you guys, we're like
• 6:48
  in our 50s. We need to be slow in this roll.
• 6:51
  I don't know if this is what we want to be sponsoring the show.
• 6:53
  I know you're not in your 50s, Clay.
• 6:55
  I don't even think you're in your 40s.
• 6:56
  Maybe in your 30s. I'm not sure.
• 6:58
  But we're just slow in. I feel like we got to slow the
• 7:01
  roll. We need something else.
• 7:02
  Yeah, Nick said that the other day when we were at a brewery
• 7:05
  and I was like, this looks fun. What if we just opened up a
• 7:08
  little microbrewery and community people come by.
• 7:11
  We're to hey, Blakely, Scott, how you doing?
• 7:14
  Come here, have a beer on me. He's like, are you serious?
• 7:17
  I'm like, yeah. He's like, no.
• 7:19
  Do you know what a terrible life that is?
• 7:22
  I guess running the business side of it isn't as great as
• 7:24
  just hanging out and talking to people.
• 7:25
  He goes because we could just go meet our friends at a brewery
• 7:28
  and hang out. Like, you don't have to own the
• 7:29
  brewery and run the brewery to make that happen.
• 7:33
  I don't know. What do you want to do when you
• 7:35
  retire Blakely? Am I not retired?
• 7:39
  What? Do you want to do clay when you
• 7:41
  when you retire? Well, I was going to say I
• 7:45
  wanted to open a brewery, but I guess that's not cool anymore.
• 7:51
  No, I don't want to open a brew. You know, I've been thinking,
• 7:53
  I've been thinking about this because, you know, I save for
• 7:55
  retirement and I don't really have like a full-fledged plan.
• 8:00
  But one time I asked, I asked a friend of mine, I said, what's
• 8:06
  your five year plan? And he said, well, I don't
• 8:10
  really view, I don't really make like 5 year plans or 10 year
• 8:15
  plans. I kind of view my life like a
• 8:17
  garden and I walk around the garden and some stuff needs
• 8:20
  watering and some stuff needs wedding.
• 8:22
  And that's just kind of how I go about things.
• 8:24
  What? And I was like an.
• 8:25
  Advanced Sun guy. He needs some mandatory.
• 8:29
  Fun. He did spend some time as a monk
• 8:31
  in Thailand, so. Yeah, OK.
• 8:33
  That. Sounds like a cool.
• 8:34
  Moonlighting gig, isn't it? No, it was.
• 8:39
  Not another. Podcast.
• 8:40
  It was a real person, not a monk.
• 8:42
  Not a monk. He was a monk, but he's not a
• 8:44
  monk anymore. There's a story there.
• 8:47
  There's a story there, but but he.
• 8:50
  Started watering his garden in the little wrong places.
• 8:54
  I just, I start just like. I start just like making rumors
• 9:03
  about this poor sweet monk. Why can't he just be peaceful?
• 9:07
  He's like, but here's the thing, he's not a monk.
• 9:09
  He's, he's like, he has a family and he lives in England.
• 9:13
  Well wait, I thought he said he went to become a monk for a
• 9:16
  while. Yeah, he did.
• 9:17
  And then you can derobe, it's fine.
• 9:20
  Oh, but D. Wild they actually call it D
• 9:22
  robing. That seems very specific.
• 9:25
  Like unzip. Like I, I'm among first who is
• 9:29
  ready to D robe. See, This is why I don't tell
• 9:33
  you anything come here about my life or people I know or what my
• 9:37
  retirement plans are or anything.
• 9:41
  I'm about to de robe in my retirement.
• 9:45
  You would, you would. Go live in a nudist colony.
• 9:48
  I can totally see it, Heather. Like on the.
• 9:51
  Beach. Why?
• 9:52
  Drinking your sexy margaritas? It have to do with being naked.
• 9:56
  You're the one that went to the freaking naked coffee stop.
• 10:00
  Well, you, you planning next time to go?
• 10:03
  Yeah, you're the one to the magic naked circle and I.
• 10:07
  I went to the KOA instead, I was too nervous.
• 10:10
  I do go in the hot tub naked, but other than that I I'm not a
• 10:14
  nudist. Blakely country to I on the
• 10:18
  inside, maybe? I can't wait for people to see
• 10:22
  the reel of this, you know, where they basically comment on
• 10:25
  what our retirement plans on we've got, you know, like one
• 10:28
  person has failed dreams, one person's in a nudist colony.
• 10:34
  Blakely, I'm scared to I'm. Here I don't, I don't, I don't.
• 10:39
  She's living it. Her dream is to make a new best
• 10:41
  friend and start a podcast with them.
• 10:44
  I'm still waiting in my best friend part outside my driveway
• 10:48
  retirement. How's it?
• 10:50
  How's it going so far? It's a little awkward in this
• 10:53
  REI camp chair, I'm not going to lie.
• 10:55
  It's I'm sorry. That's that is uncomfortable,
• 10:57
  but I appreciate you not giving up.
• 10:58
  You know what a lot of people would have said, guys, no power.
• 11:00
  Sorry, cancelling. Yeah, you know, said to our our
• 11:04
  guest who is in very high demand.
• 11:06
  Sorry, we're going to have to reschedule.
• 11:07
  But you didn't. You made, I've learned, pushed.
• 11:10
  Through learned I've pushed this before did you know promise
• 11:13
  coming up this weekend with I did my my kids yeah promise
• 11:17
  coming up and it made me think that the last or I guess the
• 11:21
  first time the power went out for me and I wanted to cancel
• 11:25
  was my prom. I was getting like ready and my
• 11:29
  mom was out of town and I remember I had ironed my dress
• 11:33
  and this has nothing. The power was obviously still
• 11:36
  on. Hold on.
• 11:37
  You're you're Blakely's making an emotion right now where she's
• 11:40
  like touching her chest and like the putting the iron on her
• 11:44
  dress. Is that how you ironed your
• 11:46
  dress? Did you iron it while it's on
• 11:48
  you? I.
• 11:48
  Ironed it on the ironing board, but I accidentally knocked it
• 11:51
  over and you know how it has those little steam holes on it?
• 11:56
  It like landed on my dress and I had steam holes on my dress.
• 12:01
  That was like the first thing. And the second thing is the
• 12:05
  power went out, but I had my hair done, so it was all done.
• 12:08
  And it was like super curly in this beautiful updo.
• 12:11
  But I was really particular. Have I told this story before?
• 12:14
  I think I've told this story on the podcast before.
• 12:16
  No, because I'm really particular about my bangs
• 12:19
  because it was the like the 80s. And so I had like, you know, the
• 12:23
  claw, the claw. And so I wanted to do my bangs
• 12:25
  on my own. And so I had this like curl, but
• 12:27
  the power went out like right before I was about to get picked
• 12:29
  up for prom. Oh, no.
• 12:31
  And so I couldn't like access a curling iron.
• 12:34
  So I had this like super curly up to these straight things
• 12:38
  going oh. It's so sad.
• 12:40
  It's. So sad.
• 12:42
  And then I went to dinner and I spilled garlic sauce on my
• 12:47
  dress. And then I went to prom and my
• 12:51
  date had to go to the hospital because he had mono.
• 12:54
  Oh my gosh. And all because I just want my
• 12:58
  daughter and sons proud to be perfect this weekend.
• 13:01
  So I hope the power stays on. That's all I'm trying to say.
• 13:04
  But I have experience and power and I off and I am prepared and
• 13:08
  I have a van and I can record from a van and I'm proud of it.
• 13:13
  That was my diet. Oh, you just worked through
• 13:15
  something? There, did you feel it?
• 13:16
  I felt it OK it was. There's a lot of childhood
• 13:21
  trauma just come. Up and it was our outage,
• 13:23
  although for Lula and Elden's sake, I will say maybe don't
• 13:27
  don't put that on them this weekend to like make it perfect.
• 13:30
  Like maybe it's just like, let's let that lie because you're
• 13:33
  like, so I'm going to make sure that theirs is perfect.
• 13:36
  I'm looking at my kids dress and I'm like, you aren't going to be
• 13:39
  wanting to eat anything and that thing like.
• 13:41
  Are they long or? I remember when we first started
• 13:43
  this practice, I don't know if it was prom or if it was hung,
• 13:46
  but all the girls had those like super, super short dresses.
• 13:48
  And we. Yeah.
• 13:50
  How long about? How?
• 13:52
  Oh, that's good. Well, you'll have to post some
• 13:54
  pictures. I'm excited.
• 13:55
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 13:56
  Are you going for like nails and stuff?
• 13:58
  Yeah, we go for nails on Thursday.
• 14:01
  Oh, that's get mine done. Too.
• 14:03
  Are you going to do the long ones like all the girls are
• 14:06
  doing now? Are you doing the long ones?
• 14:08
  How do they do anything with those things?
• 14:10
  They're so long and pointy. Pointy and they click a clack.
• 14:15
  Yes, yeah. I don't know how they do it.
• 14:17
  Yeah, they can also, you know, drink more than me.
• 14:21
  It's the same thing. They can click a clack.
• 14:23
  They can drink more. They could do a lot of things.
• 14:25
  When they're young, it's true, they bounce right back.
• 14:29
  Yeah. Bounce.
• 14:30
  So are can you show us? You can't really show us your
• 14:32
  van. I'm so curious about it.
• 14:34
  Show you the van just because I'm in a really precarious setup
• 14:37
  but I could post it on our. I'll do a behind the scenes for
• 14:42
  sub. Stack.
• 14:42
  Yay. All right, raise your hand.
• 14:45
  Raise your hand if you've subscribed with your freaky
• 14:48
  little 5. Did you guys all subscribe?
• 14:51
  Yeah, I did. And as I was doing it I was like
• 14:54
  do I need to do this? Well, wait.
• 14:57
  No, actually you don't. OK, well, you're you're welcome.
• 15:00
  There's a little little donation for you, but you.
• 15:04
  You became a pain subscriber to your own sub stack.
• 15:07
  You did that's. How that's how I roll.
• 15:09
  I started to I don't think I finished, but I will.
• 15:12
  But I, I want to, I want to be a part of it, but well, I want to
• 15:15
  get the emails like I don't want to have to log into the back end
• 15:18
  and see what we posted. I want to.
• 15:19
  I want to see what our listeners are.
• 15:21
  Free subscriber and get the emails everyone don't listen to
• 15:26
  her. I mean, I want you to pay, but
• 15:27
  you can get the emails for free, OK?
• 15:30
  Yeah. But then, but aren't there some
• 15:32
  links where you need to be a paid subscriber to like go from
• 15:35
  there to get you in? And I want it.
• 15:37
  I want it. I want that experience.
• 15:39
  The unfiltered side of the podcast is a paid per play, pay
• 15:45
  for play. Is that what you call it?
• 15:47
  Like we're not just going to show Blue Steel the van tour to
• 15:51
  everyone. Gosh, that.
• 15:52
  Sounds so shitty. And mean and exclusive.
• 15:54
  That's not like me. I'm a more to marry the person.
• 15:56
  Let's reframe it. Yes, let's reframe it, Clay.
• 15:59
  Go for it the. Reframe, the reframe is hey, so
• 16:02
  we're providing more in depth access, more community and more
• 16:09
  intentionality in our sub stack. If you want to join us, you can
• 16:13
  go to notallbusiness.substack.com.
• 16:16
  We would love for you to join us.
• 16:17
  That's where we're going to be. We're throwing our freaky little
• 16:20
  5 down and that's where. We're at.
• 16:22
  Yeah, you know High 5I promised we would film your next Pip pop
• 16:30
  at Nicole's gym live in. The.
• 16:33
  Newsletter, just so you know. Wait, Heather, are you finding
• 16:36
  out about this right now? Yeah, Yep.
• 16:39
  Because she didn't subscribe, she didn't get the e-mail.
• 16:41
  But that's what I promised. So anyway, that's happening, OK?
• 16:44
  It's gonna be fun. OK, I've been milking.
• 16:48
  If anybody is following the PIP for PUP, I think there's two of
• 16:51
  you out there. I was telling my friend, I said
• 16:54
  I think my, I think my followers have gone down.
• 17:00
  No, that's not. True I.
• 17:03
  Think my personal ones have gone.
• 17:06
  That's not true. Maybe we've been to the sub
• 17:08
  stack? Well, maybe, I don't know, it's
• 17:11
  funny, but it made me laugh. Anyway, the point is, I asked
• 17:14
  Nicole like, because I've been, I took a week off by accident
• 17:17
  because I didn't have the next steps.
• 17:19
  You know, she only put me through 12 workouts.
• 17:21
  So I was like, well, what's a girl to do?
• 17:24
  I guess I'd take a week off. That's what I did.
• 17:27
  She would be, I'm confessing it right now.
• 17:29
  I know I did reach out to her and I was like, OK, what should
• 17:32
  I do in the meantime? And then she offered a Zoom, but
• 17:35
  I was like, I don't even know how that would work.
• 17:37
  And she said, if you can't get to Boulder, I'm like, I'll get
• 17:39
  to Boulder. I'll figure it out.
• 17:41
  I'll do it. Yeah, we're going to do it live.
• 17:43
  OK, real quick, Heather. Yes.
• 17:45
  How many followers do you think you have?
• 17:48
  I've looked it up. I know the number on my
• 17:51
  Instagram, yeah, it's 300 something.
• 17:55
  And 300 and what? What's the number I?
• 17:58
  Don't know, it's not a lot. Also, it's as money as I had
• 18:03
  before I think. No, it's not.
• 18:06
  You've gone up. What is it?
• 18:09
  It's 318. You've gone up, you've gone up.
• 18:16
  I think, OK, here's the deal. I'm a private person.
• 18:19
  I never had, I never had it on public for Instagram ever.
• 18:23
  And it was like, I think when I we first started this maybe 200
• 18:26
  something, I don't know, I just, I didn't, I wasn't into that
• 18:29
  very much. And so I made it this big deal,
• 18:32
  like, OK, we're starting this podcast.
• 18:34
  So kids like, I'm going to take your pictures down.
• 18:38
  You know, I just I want to be very conscious of this Clay.
• 18:40
  I was like, how much personals do I stuff because you know the
• 18:43
  thousands of people that are going to start.
• 18:46
  But hey, but OK, you're seeing this totally wrong, though.
• 18:50
  Hey, I can, I, can I help you a little bit?
• 18:52
  I feel like you're seeing it wrong.
• 18:54
  So Blakely just shared with us our engagement for the last,
• 18:59
  gosh, 6-8 months. We have hundreds of thousands of
• 19:03
  views across all of our stuff. What you're, you're seeing it as
• 19:07
  like, oh, only my close followers see that stuff.
• 19:10
  No, it's all of these people who are not following you.
• 19:15
  OK, so they're seeing it and like not following.
• 19:18
  Then it's a they're like, I'll see it, but I'm I'm not going to
• 19:23
  follow her. In fact, I think I lost two
• 19:25
  people. No.
• 19:28
  You're seeing it. I love how you're so self
• 19:31
  deprecating on this but you're seeing it totally wrong.
• 19:35
  Like people are not hitting follow in the way that they
• 19:38
  would have hit follow 10 years. Ago.
• 19:41
  I think that part I actually agree because I don't.
• 19:45
  I. Rarely will hit file like I will
• 19:47
  like stuff all the time. And to your point, we do get
• 19:50
  hundreds of thousands of likes and we, you know, I see that I'm
• 19:52
  sorry it's not resulting in followers.
• 19:55
  We get hundreds of thousands of views not like.
• 19:57
  Views. Oh, OK, thanks Polly.
• 20:00
  Positive so not like so would they see it, but then they don't
• 20:05
  like it. That's the point you're trying
• 20:07
  to make. Yeah, they're not.
• 20:09
  They don't dislike what they see.
• 20:12
  It's just a our content strategy is so much more geared towards
• 20:17
  people who are going to join us in the sub stack.
• 20:19
  And it is the stuff that's online is like the biggest thing
• 20:24
  that we're doing is we're competing with attention for
• 20:27
  people who are scrolling on the toilet.
• 20:30
  That is what is happening on Instagram.
• 20:33
  And just I appreciate the reframe on that because
• 20:36
  honestly, it's very vulnerable to put myself out there doing
• 20:39
  these push ups and everything else.
• 20:40
  It really is. And so I was willing to do it to
• 20:42
  try to raise awareness and have other people who are interested
• 20:45
  join along. And there have been.
• 20:46
  So I'm not going to diminish that at all.
• 20:49
  And I really appreciate those of you that have joined along.
• 20:51
  It means the world to me. So I really do appreciate that.
• 20:55
  And also, you know what, I'm not, I'm trying to like, oh,
• 20:59
  have thousands of followers. That's not who I am.
• 21:01
  If it was, I would have joined that bandwagon 20 years ago and
• 21:04
  kind of gotten in that game. But this is more just about
• 21:06
  attracting people who are interested in having these
• 21:10
  conversations. And so whether that is 318
• 21:13
  people or whether it's 300,000 people, we just, if you're
• 21:17
  interested in these conversations are resonating
• 21:20
  with you, then join us. And that's, that's where we want
• 21:24
  to end up. So you are so invited and wanted
• 21:26
  to be here. And that whole attention thing
• 21:30
  is insane. And you're right, it is the
• 21:32
  scrolling thing. It is that.
• 21:33
  And I think our, my husband did it last night.
• 21:36
  We were watching a movie and he was kind of working on the side
• 21:40
  and stuff. And it reminded me of how
• 21:41
  they're writing Movies Now. Did you see that?
• 21:43
  They're writing because no one's listening anymore.
• 21:47
  They, yes, they're writing scripts for people to watch
• 21:51
  distracted. So they're having to say the
• 21:54
  obvious because people will miss nuance because they're
• 21:56
  distracted. Their attention is over here,
• 21:59
  over there. So it's like overly obvious and
• 22:01
  it's really watering down the quality of scripts coming
• 22:04
  through because they're having to be.
• 22:06
  Yeah, so attention because nobody's listening, nobody's
• 22:09
  listening, nobody's paying attention.
• 22:12
  And I think we should move to our guest and to our topic today
• 22:16
  because I had a prep call and guys, we're in for some serious,
• 22:22
  serious learning today about listening.
• 22:24
  And it's harder than you think. It's physiological, it's brain
• 22:29
  kind of stuff. It's not a willpower thing all
• 22:31
  the time. Yeah, well.
• 22:33
  Like they're on. Clay and I did have a side chat
• 22:36
  before you got on I you. Did not 40.
• 22:39
  Minutes before he joined on 10 minutes early and this guest is
• 22:44
  for you. So This is why.
• 22:45
  Everyone. Welcome to the show, Allison
• 22:48
  O'Brien. You've hustled, climbed,
• 22:55
  pivoted. By most measures, you've made
• 22:58
  it. And yet, something still feels
• 23:01
  off. Francis Walsh works with women
• 23:04
  in the middle of exactly that moment, making a bold career
• 23:08
  move, rebuilding after time away, or just sitting with that
• 23:12
  feeling that something more is waiting.
• 23:15
  Her clients leave with renewed energy, a clear sense of
• 23:19
  direction, and tools that hold up in the chaos of everyday
• 23:23
  life. Start with a free intro
• 23:25
  consultation or join her upcoming four week Own Your Path
• 23:30
  Spring Workshop and walk away with a plan that actually
• 23:33
  sticks. Francis is a
• 23:35
  certifiedwayfinder.lifecoachfinder@franciswalshcoaching.com. Hey, Allison, welcome on.
• 23:48
  Hi everyone, thanks so much for having me.
• 23:50
  I'm excited. Good.
• 23:52
  We're excited to have you here. This is such a listening is such
• 23:56
  a what seems like a basic skill that anybody if they just tried
• 24:00
  harder, would be good at. But after my conversations with
• 24:03
  you, I was just so very interested.
• 24:06
  And so I'll I'll start with kind of the first thing about it
• 24:09
  being physiological. And one thing you said that
• 24:12
  stuck with me was that our brains are processing faster
• 24:17
  than people speak. So tell me about that and how
• 24:21
  our body could even be working against us when it comes to
• 24:23
  listening and what do we do with that?
• 24:25
  Yeah. So here's the first myth that I
• 24:28
  want to just kind of toss out there around listening is that
• 24:34
  if we just pay more attention, if we just try harder, we'll
• 24:39
  listen better. I think what most people don't
• 24:44
  understand is that listening doesn't happen in terms of what
• 24:50
  we hear, right? We don't hear with our ears.
• 24:54
  So if we just, you know, quiet things down, we won't listen
• 24:59
  better necessarily. Listening happens in our brain.
• 25:03
  We process information through our brain.
• 25:06
  We hear auditory sounds with our ears, but we actually make
• 25:11
  meaning through unique filters in our brain.
• 25:16
  And so when we think about listening and being distracted
• 25:20
  and how we're hardwired in terms of, of listening to be
• 25:25
  distracted, it's because it's this physiological process.
• 25:31
  And our brains can actually process information much faster
• 25:36
  than the average person speaks. So most people speak at roughly
• 25:40
  125 to 150 words per minute, but our brain can process well over
• 25:47
  405 hundred words per minute up to, and it depends on the study
• 25:51
  you read, but up to about 700, seven, 150 words per minute.
• 25:55
  So we have this amazing capacity to process that exceeds the
• 26:02
  speed at which people talk. So This is why we get really
• 26:04
  mischievous in our listening and we create meaning at times where
• 26:09
  there isn't. We misconstrue, we misunderstand
• 26:14
  in that gap between what's said and the meaning that we make
• 26:21
  things happen that are not always accurate.
• 26:24
  Yeah, I know. I think I feel like you're
• 26:26
  telling me that are telling us that we are physiologically.
• 26:32
  What the hell, Clay? Am I unmute?
• 26:36
  Why are you laughing? At me, I'm sorry, I'm laughing
• 26:38
  because Allison just said, you know, sometimes we make meaning
• 26:42
  where there isn't any. And then you said, I feel like
• 26:47
  you're telling me that. OK here's what was happening.
• 26:55
  I only have listened because my daughter is the only person
• 27:02
  that's like a safe contact on my computer and can text while
• 27:07
  we're on the show and she is literally texting me the most
• 27:12
  sidetracking content. Muscles conversation.
• 27:16
  Yes. And but then I was thinking, OK,
• 27:19
  the half that I heard of what Allison said is like that we are
• 27:22
  physiologically doomed because our brains can work so much
• 27:28
  faster than our ears are taking in.
• 27:32
  It's kind of how I parsed that. You can't write this.
• 27:34
  Stuff like this is perfect, like we are leaving this in the show
• 27:38
  by the way. Built this way, like why are why
• 27:42
  are we built to be triggered? Because I'm processing faster
• 27:45
  than you can get it out. And so you're already going to
• 27:48
  be annoying me. And by the way, Allison, you're
• 27:49
  not annoying me at all. I'm thinking of my daughter.
• 27:53
  She thinks. But here's here's a perfect real
• 27:56
  life expression of this. When you all listen to podcasts,
• 28:01
  do you listen to it at normal speed or do you speed it up or
• 28:04
  do you listen to an audio book tend to speed it up.
• 28:08
  So it's if you listen on normal speed, sometimes you actually
• 28:13
  find yourself so distracted that you have to rewind it to go back
• 28:18
  and and because you missed exactly.
• 28:21
  But if we speed it up a little bit, 1.25, 1.5, whatever that is
• 28:26
  for you and and your processing power, then it's often easier to
• 28:32
  pay attention and stay engaged. Wow.
• 28:36
  So what happened just now was beautiful.
• 28:40
  Like because, because, So Allison says all of this really
• 28:45
  interesting scientific backing to help us understand what it
• 28:48
  means to listen versus hear. Blakely is doing her best to be
• 28:53
  engaging and listen and be kind to our guest, but also she's got
• 28:57
  her daughter blowing her up. It's like, is everything OK?
• 28:59
  The power's out? Like, is your curling iron not
• 29:02
  working for prompt? Like what's, what's the
• 29:03
  emergency? Right.
• 29:05
  But you're still tracking. But what you came off of, it was
• 29:09
  way more extreme than what Allison said, 'cause you said
• 29:13
  we're doomed. Like your, your interpretation
• 29:16
  was like, Oh my God, like we're physiologically doomed in order
• 29:22
  to deal with this more. So it was in line with like your
• 29:26
  emotions of what was going on, right?
• 29:27
  So you're like processing it, but not at all exactly the
• 29:30
  context of what she said, but responding to it based on your.
• 29:35
  Real well for me. Sorry, but it's a good but
• 29:38
  because I did that two hours before the show today in a
• 29:41
  meeting, right? I mean, it's like we're bringing
• 29:43
  our mental state to this, this filter, right?
• 29:47
  Like Allison talked more about the filters, is that that was
• 29:49
  her filter in that moment. I love that you just said it was
• 29:52
  perfect. What happened, Heather?
• 29:53
  Because it's, it is, it's absolutely perfect.
• 29:55
  It's real, real life. What just happened, right?
• 29:59
  That when we are faced with distractions, the quality of our
• 30:04
  listening goes down. Yeah.
• 30:07
  The stakes here are really low. We're just having a chat.
• 30:11
  Amongst. New friends about listen, we
• 30:14
  don't have any high stakes decisions to make.
• 30:17
  We're not collaborating to solve a problem that has implications
• 30:23
  for other people, right? But think about if you're in a
• 30:25
  workplace type setting and you are in a really important
• 30:30
  meeting and you have to make a a really important decision that
• 30:35
  has real life implications. If we are distracted in any way,
• 30:40
  which we are quite frequently, we have to be able to catch
• 30:44
  ourselves really quickly and redirect from that distraction.
• 30:49
  So the quality of the conversation, the output from
• 30:53
  the decisions that we're making are actually aligned with what
• 30:57
  we need to accomplish. But it's really it's not easy
• 31:03
  and this idea of just pay more attention or just listen harder
• 31:07
  really misses the mark. Yeah, so.
• 31:10
  As I'm sitting here trying really hard.
• 31:13
  Got it, Blakely. OK, so here's.
• 31:17
  My question. So here's my question for you,
• 31:20
  Blakely, If you think about the conversations that you're in.
• 31:25
  Where you're. Really energized and really
• 31:27
  engaged. It's no problem to pay
• 31:30
  attention. What's the context?
• 31:32
  What's the content? Who are who are the people that
• 31:36
  are involved in that conversation?
• 31:39
  When I get really energized. Yeah, what's it about?
• 31:42
  What are you talking about? Yeah, it's a topic that excites
• 31:45
  me. So it's probably like economics
• 31:48
  or, you know, social change or sports or not sports.
• 31:54
  I don't really actually like all that many sports.
• 31:55
  Women like sports. Women's women's basketball, I'm,
• 31:58
  I'm sort of into. OK.
• 31:59
  So what I just heard was that you're engaged and energized
• 32:02
  when the topic of the conversation is something that
• 32:05
  really resonates with you personally, that you're
• 32:08
  interested in it, you have maybe experience with it or it just is
• 32:13
  something that you personally care about.
• 32:16
  And so it's it's easier for you to pay attention.
• 32:19
  OK, great answer, Heather, how about you?
• 32:22
  When you're totally energized in conversation, it's easy to stay
• 32:26
  engaged. What are we talking about?
• 32:30
  Usually it's it's going to be about improving a process and
• 32:35
  it's what I'm doing is I'm listening to existing current
• 32:39
  state and then while I'm listening, I'm already
• 32:42
  solutioning at the same time of what?
• 32:45
  So it's like operating at the so I can't just sit there and
• 32:47
  listen all day, but I have to figure out when's the next time
• 32:51
  I can ask the clarifying question so that I can solution
• 32:54
  while I'm doing it. And that's at work.
• 32:57
  And then I would say in a conversation, it's when's the
• 33:00
  next joke I can make or when it's when's the next joke
• 33:02
  they're gonna make so I can laugh because I just love
• 33:04
  laughing all the time. And so it's like, OK, how much
• 33:07
  longer are we gonna get before we can start laughing a little
• 33:09
  again? OK, you and me both like that is
• 33:12
  my favorite thing to do. If I you know my, if you can
• 33:17
  make me laugh to the point where no sound comes out and I'm
• 33:21
  clutching my belly and I'm yeah, bent over and then when I
• 33:26
  finally do get a breath, a scream comes out, then I will
• 33:30
  love you forever. But yeah, yeah, same.
• 33:32
  What I heard you say in that is you're engaged when you have the
• 33:36
  opportunity in the conversation to ideate, to bring your like
• 33:42
  fresh thinking and and your solution oriented thinking to
• 33:46
  the table to create something that's going to solve a problem.
• 33:50
  Love it. So really different from what
• 33:52
  Blakely just shared. How about you, Clay?
• 33:56
  Oh, I'm really engaged when I'm with my closest friends and
• 34:04
  we're just making jokes or laughing, creating certain
• 34:08
  scenarios like talking through the ending of a movie and going
• 34:11
  scene by scene. Wasn't that so crazy when the
• 34:14
  next thing happened? Or just kind of improvising,
• 34:20
  like what would happen if, you know, did you hear about this?
• 34:23
  And then kind of making up stories of like which direction
• 34:26
  it could go, things like that. Just.
• 34:28
  Oh yeah. So I'm.
• 34:29
  So what I'm hearing in that is like there's this social aspect
• 34:34
  of brainstorming that really engages you, right?
• 34:38
  You're in it when that happens. OK, so the, the reason I asked
• 34:42
  you that question is and well, I'll share with for me where I'm
• 34:47
  really engaged, where I'm really engaged is when I can use my
• 34:51
  personal experience to add value for other people.
• 34:58
  So is there something that I know or have experienced
• 35:01
  personally that I can share with you that will, you know, benefit
• 35:07
  your situation or that of others?
• 35:09
  There's this service oriented listening through the lens of my
• 35:14
  own experience. But so I ask these questions and
• 35:19
  I, I share that about my listening with, with you because
• 35:22
  it's so clear that listening is not universal.
• 35:27
  We don't listen in the same way, and so we can all hear the exact
• 35:32
  same content and take away a very different meaning and a
• 35:37
  very different message from it. And we're just simply not taught
• 35:43
  that about listening. We broadly accept that people
• 35:47
  speak and express themselves differently, but it's not widely
• 35:51
  known or accepted that individuals listen through
• 35:54
  unique filters that become sperm pretty ingrained habits and that
• 36:03
  influences what we take away from a conversation.
• 36:06
  So if you think about that and we're we're all in the same
• 36:11
  meeting and again, back to that scenario, we've got a decision
• 36:14
  to make. We're likely bringing very
• 36:18
  different decision making criteria to it.
• 36:21
  We're picking up on very different pieces of the
• 36:24
  conversation. And so our contribution is
• 36:27
  different. We could leave the meeting
• 36:29
  feeling like we're totally aligned and find out later that
• 36:34
  wow, we we're really moving in very different directions,
• 36:37
  despite the fact that we thought we were aligned.
• 36:40
  And that's that's really happens all day, every day.
• 36:44
  How? Are you suggesting then that we
• 36:47
  have to stop before we leave that meeting?
• 36:49
  Like we think we're aligned, but we really weren't?
• 36:51
  Like how do you get to a shared understanding of the middle of
• 36:56
  what we all understand to be true?
• 36:58
  Like what's the shared understanding piece?
• 37:00
  Yeah, such a good question. So I think you're probably not
• 37:05
  going to like this answer. A lot of people aren't going to
• 37:07
  like this answer because it implies that we have unlimited
• 37:11
  amounts of time and patience, right?
• 37:16
  Which we live in this culture of speed, right?
• 37:20
  We, we feel like we don't have time to actually have a
• 37:22
  conversation. So we should have text or we
• 37:26
  have a fly by request of someone or, you know, just believe
• 37:34
  we've, we've made sense just because we've said something
• 37:38
  right. But the, the truth is slowing
• 37:41
  down. And just like you said, Blakely,
• 37:43
  before we leave the meetings, just hey, let's, let's do a
• 37:46
  round, round Robin here. What did you hear and what are
• 37:50
  you walking away with? What responsibilities do we have
• 37:54
  collectively? What responsibilities do we have
• 37:56
  independently? Are there commitments that we're
• 37:59
  making to one another? And really just taking that
• 38:02
  pause to make sure that that gap between what was said and what
• 38:08
  was interpreted is actually, you know, the same, the same thing.
• 38:15
  I know I bring. An example.
• 38:16
  Oh yeah. Go ahead, I'm gonna hear you.
• 38:17
  OK, you wanna hear a great example of this?
• 38:19
  Yeah. OK.
• 38:20
  This is, I mean, it's actually hilarious.
• 38:23
  And again, you know, no stakes to this, but so this is, you
• 38:28
  know, last fall, I had to give a keynote address at a conference
• 38:31
  in at Columbia University. And it's in this old lecture
• 38:36
  hall. And I I had seen a picture of
• 38:38
  the hall and I saw the podium. And my first thought is I'm
• 38:43
  terrified that they won't be able to see me from behind the
• 38:45
  podium. Like if I right like yeah, I
• 38:49
  need a because. You've said before you're.
• 38:52
  I'm not tall. Sure you're not tall, OK?
• 38:54
  Yep. Yeah, I'm not.
• 38:56
  I feel 55. Yeah.
• 38:58
  I would I would argue 55 is not. Tall.
• 39:01
  Well, of course you would. Legs.
• 39:03
  OK. I'm 5/4 and 1/2 and I put that
• 39:05
  half in every time, OK? And, and I'm, I'm not, I'm
• 39:10
  solidly, a little over 5 inches shorter than I feel.
• 39:13
  So that being said, I, I have this fear of looking like a
• 39:18
  child up on stage or, you know, I was thinking like I need a
• 39:23
  step stool otherwise maybe people won't be able to see me
• 39:25
  from behind the podium. So I asked the event
• 39:31
  coordinator, she said is there anything you need for your
• 39:33
  event? And I said it would be great if
• 39:36
  I could have a stool at the podium.
• 39:40
  And she said no problem I'm. Sorry, I know where this is
• 39:43
  going. Yeah, so I know.
• 39:46
  She says no problem. And I arrive and we go to the
• 39:51
  space and there's this beautiful, like upholstered tall
• 39:56
  stool sitting next to the podium.
• 40:00
  And she says I have your your stool.
• 40:03
  And the The funny thing is, is, I mean, it makes perfect sense.
• 40:07
  I was, I'm coming from this place of cursive knowledge.
• 40:09
  I knew exactly what I was talking about in my mind.
• 40:13
  I said stool. And of course it's she'll, you
• 40:18
  know, she'll know that I need something to stand on.
• 40:21
  It didn't occur to me to even say, you know, I'm 5 feet tall.
• 40:26
  I want to make sure that I'm visible behind the podium.
• 40:31
  You know, I have all of this going on in my internal dialogue
• 40:35
  because that's my experience. I didn't share that.
• 40:39
  So her take away was, and she shared with me after we had a
• 40:43
  good laugh. Well, I just assumed maybe you
• 40:45
  had, you know, some kind of injury or lack of stamina and
• 40:50
  needed to sit. So so did she gave you the right
• 40:58
  one? Right.
• 41:02
  So, you know, in the end, it was a great story to be able to tell
• 41:06
  this, this audience when we're talking about the
• 41:09
  miscommunications that happen all day every day, you know,
• 41:14
  even when we believe we're crystal clear.
• 41:17
  So, you know, I, I make the request.
• 41:19
  Can, can I have a stool? She says absolutely, but we
• 41:24
  didn't confirm meaning there, right?
• 41:26
  Right. Think.
• 41:28
  About as a leader, when you make a request of someone, right,
• 41:32
  hey, can you do this? And they in inherently maybe
• 41:36
  sometimes because of a power differential, whatever that is,
• 41:39
  but inherently they're going to say, Oh yes, I can do that.
• 41:42
  And they believe that they know exactly what you're asking of
• 41:46
  them. And then when it comes time for
• 41:49
  accountability, sometimes we're disappointed in other people's
• 41:53
  performance because it doesn't. Didn't translate the.
• 41:57
  Expectation, yeah, that we had. Right.
• 42:01
  And talking deliverables, I mean you, you've done tons of
• 42:03
  research on this and worked with companies all over.
• 42:07
  What have you seen? What kind of losses have you
• 42:10
  seen companies experience from just poor communication, poor
• 42:13
  listening? How much time do we have One
• 42:18
  minute for that question, go one minute for that question, OK.
• 42:22
  I mean, the first, the first like a really simple one that
• 42:25
  comes to mind, was literally a $15,000 loss that could be
• 42:31
  attributed to one request. And it, it was lost in a period
• 42:37
  of about 2 1/2 hours. And, and that's small scale, but
• 42:41
  it was a start up in the food space, actually the cannabis
• 42:45
  space. But you know, the, the leader
• 42:48
  said, hey, can you do this? The person said, Yep, I'm on it.
• 42:52
  And then the quality control around this particular batch of
• 42:57
  product that they had to create for this one customer was off
• 43:01
  because of this miscommunication in the way that the request was
• 43:05
  made. So in 2 1/2 hours they were able
• 43:08
  to attribute it, you know about $15,000 in losses just simply
• 43:12
  from that moment of do this, OK. And no clarification around it.
• 43:21
  Yeah, I mean, but I can. I mean, I'm sure there's tons of
• 43:24
  examples of that. Is the answer capturing it in
• 43:28
  writing? I mean, like, where, where do we
• 43:30
  go from there? Because miscommunication is
• 43:32
  going to happen. Like, well, how do we put
• 43:33
  ourselves in the best position to avoid those things?
• 43:36
  Yeah. I think the first thing we have
• 43:38
  to do is, is have a little bit of humility when we're
• 43:43
  communicating, meaning that we really believe so often that
• 43:47
  we're so clear, right, Because we speak in the way that we tend
• 43:53
  to listen. So we have these habitual
• 43:54
  filters we can talk about that We speak through those habitual
• 43:58
  filters. Well, our conversational
• 44:00
  partners may or may not rely on the same filters that we do so
• 44:06
  can. We dig in to that a little bit
• 44:08
  more. I mean, that's kind of giving
• 44:09
  off five love Languages vibes. A little bit.
• 44:13
  Where it's like you give gifts. Blakely.
• 44:16
  What's your gift love? Is it gifts?
• 44:19
  Love, language? Quality time.
• 44:21
  Yeah, what's your love language? No, I don't like to talk about
• 44:25
  my love language because I don't agree with that philosophically.
• 44:29
  Are you? You're so difficult sometimes,
• 44:31
  OK, It's not just it's not acts of service.
• 44:37
  Words of affirmation. I think you are one word of
• 44:40
  affirmation and I you get teased a lot.
• 44:43
  Mine's words of affirmation too. I don't.
• 44:45
  Like it, I feel really. Yes, that's good.
• 44:49
  I don't know, I always have embarrassed by that one.
• 44:50
  So it doesn't. It feels like ego driven to me.
• 44:53
  No, it has to do with how you were raised.
• 44:55
  You were a couch baby. You OK?
• 44:59
  We can, we can, we can dig into that on another episode.
• 45:02
  Allison, what's your love language?
• 45:05
  Quality time. Quality time.
• 45:06
  OK, so I won't digress this too much, but it's the same concept
• 45:10
  where it's like you'll tend to show love, so you'll tend to
• 45:13
  listen the way you hear the way you listen.
• 45:16
  Sorry. Yes, and there's a yes.
• 45:19
  And OK, the research has shown that the way that we listen is
• 45:25
  actually a habit, right? So think about the way you form
• 45:30
  any habit, right? There's a cue, there's a
• 45:33
  reinforcement, and then there's repetition of that, that habit,
• 45:39
  right? Very similar.
• 45:41
  So it's all about energy and energy conservation.
• 45:46
  That's why we develop habits. So our brain filters through
• 45:52
  specific lenses or preferences because it's easier for us to
• 46:02
  use that filter or that that lens.
• 46:05
  We can shift, we can listen for different things, but it's more
• 46:09
  energetically taxing. It's so interesting, so.
• 46:14
  Our research identified these and there could be more, but
• 46:18
  four main filters in listening, connective, reflective,
• 46:23
  analytical and conceptual and they're quite different in the
• 46:27
  lens or the filter itself. We can be single dominant one,
• 46:32
  we can be multi dominant or dual triple non etcetera.
• 46:36
  So very high level to share with you.
• 46:39
  Connective listening is an external lens.
• 46:43
  It means what is this information I'm hearing mean for
• 46:47
  other people. So if I'm highly connected in my
• 46:50
  listening, I'm listening for impact, human impact.
• 46:55
  How does this affect other people?
• 46:58
  If I'm highly reflective in my listening, I'm listening for
• 47:01
  what do I know about this? Do I care about this?
• 47:05
  How can I use this information in my role or in my
• 47:10
  responsibility? How can I add value then?
• 47:14
  Analytical listening is all about accuracy.
• 47:18
  Information that is validated, can be sourced, is proven, is
• 47:25
  true. It's data-driven, right?
• 47:30
  So these are listeners who are listening for what is versus
• 47:34
  what could be. It's what do we know to be true
• 47:37
  and can we trust it? Is it accurate?
• 47:40
  Right. Often very misunderstood in the
• 47:44
  workplace. We can talk about that too.
• 47:46
  But conceptual listeners are are ideators.
• 47:50
  These are our big picture abstract.
• 47:55
  They hear patterns and similarities between things that
• 47:59
  maybe aren't obvious to others. So these are solution oriented,
• 48:05
  but through a fresh reinventing the wheel type of lens, right?
• 48:10
  So ideas be getting more ideas and other ideas, right?
• 48:14
  So if you think about these four very different filters, and if
• 48:19
  you think about individuals having these different habits,
• 48:24
  it makes complete sense that we can have a meeting with six
• 48:28
  people around a conference table and then a week later find out,
• 48:31
  holy cow, we're moving in totally direction, totally
• 48:35
  different directions, even though we thought we were in
• 48:38
  alignment. Yeah, right.
• 48:40
  This is amazing because I think if you, first of all, it would
• 48:43
  take a lot for me to even really, really figure out which
• 48:46
  one I fall in. And maybe those change over time
• 48:48
  depending on the mood or the room.
• 48:50
  Or I mean, maybe I'm slipping into different things at
• 48:52
  different times. Or how much effort you're
• 48:54
  making, or how much of that particular conversation.
• 48:57
  Right, because that's what I wanted to ask you about this
• 48:59
  energy thing. I can see how those can collide
• 49:01
  or enhance each other. But like, sometimes I'll be in a
• 49:04
  conversation and I'm just like drained immediately.
• 49:09
  Yes, of all. Of my energy and I'm like, I
• 49:11
  can't. And sometimes it's with a, a
• 49:13
  friend on a hike and I'm like, I, I have nothing for you right
• 49:16
  now, Like I, I can't, I just, I can't listen to you for another
• 49:18
  second. Sometimes it's in a boardroom.
• 49:20
  So but and it's nothing against the person.
• 49:21
  On another day it might be fine, but like when my energy is like
• 49:24
  zapped within what's what is that?
• 49:28
  Yeah. Well, I mean, I think there are
• 49:29
  a lot of things that could potentially be going on there,
• 49:32
  right? Just in general, when we are
• 49:35
  depleted, it's we're so much easier to be triggered truly
• 49:40
  when we are in a conversation where our listening habits or
• 49:44
  cognitive preferences are not being met.
• 49:48
  It's much more challenging to stay engaged and be attentive in
• 49:53
  that conversation. So we we can train this and we
• 49:59
  can almost like developing any, you know, exercise in the gym.
• 50:05
  You can train and get your pull up and eventually you'll get it,
• 50:09
  but it still requires effort every time you do that pull up.
• 50:15
  But as you train more, they get a little bit easier.
• 50:19
  Maybe you still don't really like that exercise and you
• 50:22
  wouldn't choose to do it. But if it shows up in the
• 50:24
  programming, you know you have to.
• 50:27
  And so listening is very similar to that, right?
• 50:30
  I, I know that in conversation, I really don't want a lot of
• 50:38
  details until I hear big picture and know where we're going.
• 50:44
  If you start with minutia, it's triggering for me and you know,
• 50:49
  you, you might lose me. Or I just feel that sense of,
• 50:55
  you know, exhaustion. Yeah.
• 50:57
  In in that training though, to get our first pull up or to get
• 51:01
  our first time, we actually listen to someone with great
• 51:04
  contention. Is there one universal training
• 51:11
  method that you would suggest to us to like start our practice?
• 51:16
  Yes, OK, so first, I mean you know it it, it does help to
• 51:20
  really understand your own preferences, right.
• 51:24
  So I mean that's just to have a baseline metric and and we have
• 51:28
  an assessment for that. An assessment tool takes 5
• 51:31
  minutes. It's it's not I don't say that
• 51:35
  the assessment is the end all be all, no assessment is, but it
• 51:39
  gives us that place to start with in terms of just a little
• 51:44
  bit of self-awareness. Like I said, a baseline metric,
• 51:49
  right to know I have this stronger preference for this
• 51:53
  type of listening than I do for this type.
• 51:56
  But the most important is presence and truly a commitment
• 52:04
  to observe our self in conversation and in the moment.
• 52:10
  Check in and say what am I? What how?
• 52:12
  How am I doing here? Am I distracted?
• 52:15
  So does presence mean put down my phone, shut my slack off to
• 52:21
  be engaged in the meeting I'm in instead of multitasking or just
• 52:24
  trying to get back to a few side answers while this conversation
• 52:27
  is going on? Not, not exactly.
• 52:30
  I mean, I think that's just smart practice.
• 52:34
  You can't actually give someone your full attention if you have
• 52:38
  your phone open, if things are. And, you know, I mean, no
• 52:43
  offense, Blakely, sometimes we have to.
• 52:45
  Right. Yeah.
• 52:45
  Like you, you know your your daughter, if there's an
• 52:48
  emergency, you have to be able to be there for her.
• 52:51
  That's not what I'm saying. I was not coming for you and
• 52:54
  that Blakely, I really wasn't. That wasn't that was I'm
• 52:57
  thinking about myself in a meeting phone.
• 52:58
  And someone tries to talk to me when I'm a phone.
• 53:01
  I get so triggered and I like smack them because.
• 53:05
  I can't my. Brain only can hear that one
• 53:09
  conversation, but I used to know this account manager that she
• 53:13
  could like, put it on mute in the conference call.
• 53:16
  The person, the customer would talk for an hour and she would
• 53:18
  get all this stuff done. She's like, yeah, And she'd pick
• 53:20
  it right back up like she had some.
• 53:22
  Guaranteed. Guaranteed.
• 53:24
  She missed critical things that happen in that conversation
• 53:28
  because we just our brains can't multitask.
• 53:31
  Yes, great practice to limit the distractions.
• 53:36
  You just said something interesting.
• 53:37
  You said our brains don't multitask.
• 53:39
  Do you mean regarding listening? Like is it, is it impossible to
• 53:43
  hear two things at once? I were like, what happens?
• 53:46
  What I was, yeah, what I was referring.
• 53:48
  To there is just all of the research that shows when you're
• 53:52
  involved in one thing and you take on another thing, your
• 53:57
  efficiency on that first thing decreases.
• 54:00
  By you. Know 70%.
• 54:03
  Yeah, right. Your short term memory, I know
• 54:04
  like I've lost years of my life where it's just like, I know I
• 54:07
  was multitasking young kids, like all the things running
• 54:09
  through and I, I have no long term memory of it.
• 54:12
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 54:13
  So it's just, you know, so, so best practices to support our
• 54:17
  listening are to remove those distractions.
• 54:20
  But when I was talking about presence, I was talking more
• 54:23
  about intention and this commitment to be in partnership
• 54:35
  with others in communication. That's a beautiful way to say
• 54:40
  it. So there's this really
• 54:43
  phenomenal research that I that I geek out on, but it's these
• 54:49
  researchers in Israel, Avi Kluger and Guy Ichikoff.
• 54:53
  And the studies that they've done actually prove that when we
• 54:59
  perceive quality listening in our conversational partner, it
• 55:05
  actually increases our authenticity, vulnerability and
• 55:11
  creativity well-being. So we disclose more when we
• 55:17
  perceive quality listening, when we perceive as the listener that
• 55:23
  the speaker is authentic and vulnerable, it actually
• 55:29
  increases the quality of our listening.
• 55:31
  So there's this beneficial spiral and this fleeting sense
• 55:37
  of togetherness when there's quality listening present.
• 55:41
  So when I talk about presence in conversation, it sounds a little
• 55:48
  bolder. Woo woo.
• 55:49
  But what I mean is that we have a very strong commitment in the
• 55:55
  moment, in the conversation to observe ourself, right?
• 56:01
  What am I listening to and for? Am I distracted?
• 56:04
  If I am distracted, how can I shut that down?
• 56:07
  Are emotions getting in the way for me?
• 56:09
  And then there's also that piece of, you know, what does my
• 56:12
  conversational partner need in this?
• 56:15
  What's important to them? What's at stake for them?
• 56:18
  And, and given those observation, do I need to adjust
• 56:21
  in any way to improve the, the, the potential for a quality
• 56:27
  outcome here? And, you know, are there, are
• 56:31
  there different questions that I could ask to learn something in
• 56:36
  this, even if I'm an expert in it already?
• 56:40
  It's more than just shut the phone.
• 56:43
  So we've got a lot to practice. So taking it down to listening
• 56:50
  dummies, dumb listening for dummies, me right here, what's
• 56:56
  1? If you had to choose just one
• 56:57
  thing to get started that we could put into our habit, even
• 57:02
  starting simply tonight at the dinner table, or you know where,
• 57:06
  where's a good place to start to be a better listener?
• 57:11
  Here's what I'm going to encourage.
• 57:12
  I'm going to throw out there. See how it lands for you.
• 57:16
  I am going to suggest slowing down.
• 57:22
  I like it. Slowing down and getting
• 57:25
  comfortable in brief moments of silence.
• 57:32
  Oh yeah, that's really hard. I'm sorry, I know.
• 57:37
  Silences. OK, OK, but here's.
• 57:40
  Here's the thing, if you really want the best thinking from
• 57:45
  someone that you were in conversation with, that pause
• 57:51
  that we don't fill allows for something new to evolve.
• 57:58
  So your spouse, your partner, your child, your best friend,
• 58:07
  your direct report shares something with you, whether it's
• 58:11
  work, dinner table, before immediately responding, just
• 58:18
  take that moment, pause. See if in that pause something
• 58:23
  else comes up. Yeah.
• 58:26
  Slow things down a little bit before sharing your own
• 58:29
  perspective. Here's someone else's.
• 58:32
  Maybe it might influence your own thinking.
• 58:35
  Yeah. And you're almost slowing down
• 58:39
  if possible that that processing speed.
• 58:44
  And just because you, you know, you can be processing at a
• 58:46
  higher like you're kind of just slowing down on the insides,
• 58:50
  taking lying down on the insides for a minute to just kind of
• 58:53
  listen and kind of pace yourself.
• 58:57
  You know what? Yeah, I, I said that because I
• 58:59
  think my kids when they were little and I was really stressed
• 59:03
  coming home and I would lay down with them like, and read a book
• 59:08
  at night and they would feel still like my energy was still
• 59:14
  very high. And then say, Mommy lay, lay
• 59:16
  down on your insides like late. I'm like, I'm laying down here
• 59:20
  with you in the. Back but late.
• 59:21
  So good. Lay down on your inside so we
• 59:24
  say that in our family a lot lay down I.
• 59:26
  Love that. Yeah, yeah.
• 59:29
  In that, in that pause and conversation, it allows us the
• 59:35
  time to challenge our own thinking a little bit.
• 59:39
  Yeah. And I and I think that's so
• 59:41
  valuable because so often we feel this urgency to share our
• 59:46
  thinking, but if it's really valuable, it's still going to be
• 59:49
  valuable and relevant in five. Minutes.
• 59:51
  Or 10 minutes or 20 minutes or tomorrow.
• 59:55
  So. Yeah, and often, I mean, I they
• 59:58
  always say, like, you know, one of the most powerful things to
• 1:00:01
  do as a leader is to just sit back.
• 1:00:03
  I mean, the leader who's like constantly talking, talking,
• 1:00:05
  talking, talking is people start to drone out after a while, they
• 1:00:08
  kind of start to listen. But if you can just choose your
• 1:00:11
  words and say. Say less or be more concise that
• 1:00:15
  at the right time in the right moment, it's going to be much
• 1:00:18
  more powerful than being gone talking.
• 1:00:22
  But that's that intentionality and that presence and that
• 1:00:25
  decision to listen versus just hear or be.
• 1:00:30
  It's not about being polite. It's beyond being polite.
• 1:00:33
  It's it's setting aside and really focusing in on the
• 1:00:36
  listener with intention. There's a lot here.
• 1:00:41
  Allison, thank you so much for coming.
• 1:00:44
  I know I can see Clay sweating a little bit.
• 1:00:48
  We've gone over time. I know, I know, I know.
• 1:00:52
  I know you so well. I can.
• 1:00:54
  We're listening telepathically. I'm looking into your eyes
• 1:00:57
  across 2000 miles and I can hear you going.
• 1:01:00
  Wrap it up, Heather, wrap it up. Am I wrong?
• 1:01:04
  Were you thinking that? Yeah, of course I was thinking
• 1:01:06
  it. OK, good.
• 1:01:11
  OK, We do need to wrap it up. Allison, thank you so much.
• 1:01:14
  This is, I mean, I, I don't say this often, but I think this is
• 1:01:18
  going to change my life a little bit.
• 1:01:20
  I really do. I think that I am, I have a new
• 1:01:23
  perspective on this and I thought I was a decent listener,
• 1:01:27
  but I have a lot of work to do. So I really appreciate the the
• 1:01:31
  reset on this. I love that.
• 1:01:33
  Yeah, it's been really, really helpful.
• 1:01:36
  All right, well, before we let you go, we do ask all of our
• 1:01:40
  guests a question and we answer it ourselves.
• 1:01:42
  Which is? Yep.
• 1:01:43
  And you don't have to go first. Don't worry.
• 1:01:46
  It's what brought a smile to your face this past week.
• 1:01:50
  So you can have a thought if you want.
• 1:01:53
  Blakely, Clay. I my biggest smile was from one
• 1:01:58
  of our subscribers we got this week and he sent a note in and
• 1:02:04
  said, here's a little something. I can't remember exactly what he
• 1:02:10
  said, but it was something to the degree of we just need a
• 1:02:15
  little more of all of you in our world.
• 1:02:16
  And I just thought it was the sweetest thing and it was just a
• 1:02:21
  genuine lovely fan human friend. And I just want to shout out to
• 1:02:28
  Armando and say we appreciate you too that.
• 1:02:31
  Is so nice. Is that someone that you know?
• 1:02:33
  Is it a friend of? Yours.
• 1:02:35
  He is a long time friend and but just like one of those friends
• 1:02:40
  that just encourages you, makes you feel good.
• 1:02:44
  You love language? Yeah.
• 1:02:49
  Got better. Look, girl, Armando's coming.
• 1:02:51
  For your woman. Just kidding.
• 1:02:53
  You can. You can cut that out.
• 1:02:55
  Just kidding. Actually, you would think it's
• 1:02:57
  really funny, Woody. OK.
• 1:02:58
  All right, Armando, you got it. You got it.
• 1:03:01
  No, that's beautiful. That actually made me smile,
• 1:03:03
  too. When you pass that along.
• 1:03:04
  So thank you, Clay. On Sundays I've started making
• 1:03:09
  what I call Sunday sauce and it's.
• 1:03:13
  Red sauce. It's, yeah, it's red sauce.
• 1:03:15
  It's just like pasta sauce. I make it.
• 1:03:18
  It's everything's done slow. So it's it's tomatoes that have
• 1:03:23
  been canned from Ray's grandma's garden.
• 1:03:26
  And I spend all day Sunday on just a low simmer and they just
• 1:03:30
  cook all day and the house smells so good.
• 1:03:33
  Gravy. That's Sunday gravy.
• 1:03:35
  You know that's what they call it.
• 1:03:36
  Sunday gravy. Sunday gravy, that's what the
• 1:03:38
  Italians call it. Sunday gravy, but it's the red
• 1:03:40
  sauce. Yeah, you got to put your recipe
• 1:03:42
  in the sub stack. OK, I will.
• 1:03:44
  Oh, yeah, I will do that. Yeah.
• 1:03:46
  I got a lot of recipes in this. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:48
  Yeah. So I'm, you know, on Sunday, we
• 1:03:54
  we're hanging out as a family and my son helped me cook a
• 1:03:58
  little bit towards the end of the meal.
• 1:03:59
  And then I got to sit down with my family and once it was all
• 1:04:04
  done and we had like a really nice conversation and it was
• 1:04:06
  just like a nice slow Sunday thing.
• 1:04:10
  But I felt so good because I was just, I had this realization
• 1:04:14
  while I'm sitting there like they're not talking, they're
• 1:04:17
  just eating. And they're like, this is so
• 1:04:19
  good. Oh, that's like the best.
• 1:04:22
  It just felt great. It was just like I didn't even
• 1:04:25
  really contribute that much to the conversation.
• 1:04:26
  I just enjoyed watching them eat food that I made so.
• 1:04:30
  That's so fun I. Love that.
• 1:04:34
  Allison, you want to? Go to Do you want me to go?
• 1:04:36
  Really, really silly. So good.
• 1:04:39
  Yes. OK.
• 1:04:41
  I mean, I hope that it's appropriate, and I hope you
• 1:04:44
  laugh at this because I was doubled over laughing.
• 1:04:50
  OK, So do we have 30 seconds for my story?
• 1:04:52
  Yeah. OK.
• 1:04:54
  So on a mountain bike ride last weekend and I was probably about
• 1:04:59
  a minute ahead of my husband, but I get up to this, you know,
• 1:05:04
  area where it's a kind of a meeting point and trails kind of
• 1:05:09
  converge. And just something to know about
• 1:05:12
  me is I have to pee a lot. And I'm a very public peer.
• 1:05:17
  Me too. So I'm there and I'm waiting for
• 1:05:20
  Brad. And there's a woman there and I
• 1:05:23
  am looking at her and I say, hey, I'm sorry about this, but I
• 1:05:26
  just got to, you know, so. And there was a little bench
• 1:05:30
  there. And so like, and she goes, you
• 1:05:32
  know, there's a, there's a guy right there.
• 1:05:34
  And I'm like, Oh yeah, no problem.
• 1:05:36
  That's my husband. He knows.
• 1:05:37
  And so I squat down and I, I pee and I get up and I'm, you know,
• 1:05:44
  doing my shorts and my husband comes riding up and she goes,
• 1:05:52
  wait, that's your husband? And I'm like, yeah.
• 1:05:57
  And she goes, who's that guy? Oh.
• 1:05:59
  No, and I turn around, smile on his face.
• 1:06:04
  Hello. 12 feet from me, behind me was a hiker that came up on
• 1:06:09
  the other trail, but I just hadn't even.
• 1:06:12
  Yeah. So that's that's he's smiling.
• 1:06:16
  I thought it was. I thought it was funny that, you
• 1:06:19
  know, you guys were so aligned in your timing that you arrived
• 1:06:24
  him hiking and you riding at the exact same time.
• 1:06:29
  So I'm sorry to that hiker if he's listening.
• 1:06:34
  I know 30 years ago it probably would have.
• 1:06:38
  Made his day. A better thing to see?
• 1:06:41
  Not anymore. That is hilarious.
• 1:06:45
  That might be the best smile we've ever had.
• 1:06:47
  I think so. There you go.
• 1:06:49
  So, so good. I'm a public peer, too.
• 1:06:52
  I haven't never gotten arrested for it yet, but if I ever do get
• 1:06:54
  arrested, it'll probably be for that.
• 1:06:57
  When you got to go, you got to go.
• 1:06:58
  I'm just like, that's the way it's going to be.
• 1:07:00
  Well, that's so funny that she just believed you like, oh, wow,
• 1:07:04
  impressive timing. Yes, it's fantastic.
• 1:07:13
  Oh, man. OK, I'll close this off with
• 1:07:16
  mine was just kind of an impromptu friends over for
• 1:07:20
  Italian wood fired pizza. We made the dough fresh and it
• 1:07:23
  was really fun. So a little bit of that kind of
• 1:07:24
  cooking fun community. Yeah.
• 1:07:28
  And it was it was just a really good time.
• 1:07:30
  And it was one of those dinners that lasted longer than we
• 1:07:33
  really planned on or would expect.
• 1:07:34
  But we ended up playing guitars and dancing to vinyl music.
• 1:07:37
  And, you know, it was just, it was really relaxed and fun.
• 1:07:42
  And we giggled. And then the next morning, I
• 1:07:44
  just got the sweetest text from my friend Kirsten.
• 1:07:47
  And she just, she really needed that night.
• 1:07:49
  Like, we didn't know it, but sometimes those things just
• 1:07:51
  happen for a reason, I think. And you can feel the energy of
• 1:07:54
  when everybody needed just a little little bit of fun.
• 1:07:57
  And it was not even mandatory. It was like, you could walk in.
• 1:08:00
  Maybe you have fun, maybe you don't have fun.
• 1:08:01
  I'm not going to impose my fun on you.
• 1:08:04
  But it ended up happening. And it was it was good for the
• 1:08:07
  soul. So we had a good time.
• 1:08:08
  OK. Yeah.
• 1:08:10
  That was it. Clay, I know you have a final
• 1:08:13
  question that you. Yes.
• 1:08:16
  So Allison, what's the best way for our listeners and our
• 1:08:20
  viewers to stay in contact with you, stay up to date on what
• 1:08:23
  you're up to? Where can they find you?
• 1:08:26
  Yeah, so I'm all over LinkedIn. Well, I shouldn't say I'm all
• 1:08:30
  over LinkedIn. I have a love hate with
• 1:08:31
  LinkedIn. Every once in a while I post
• 1:08:35
  something that's meaningful to me that a couple of people might
• 1:08:39
  see. But so you can find me there,
• 1:08:43
  please connect with me. You can e-mail me at
• 1:08:47
  allison@lq-listeningintelligence.com. If you want to connect and
• 1:08:52
  actually have a conversation. That's those are probably the
• 1:08:55
  two best best places. To connect with me and Allison,
• 1:08:59
  would they, if they're interested in taking that
• 1:09:01
  questionnaire or the assessment, the assessment at all, is that
• 1:09:04
  should they just read out to you directly or would that be
• 1:09:06
  through the website? OK, Yeah.
• 1:09:08
  Absolutely. OK.
• 1:09:10
  Well, thank you so much, Allison.
• 1:09:11
  Thank you, Allison. So much fun with you.
• 1:09:13
  All right, everybody, see you next time.