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Summer Break: The Woman in Me Patreon Drop · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:21
  Speaker 1: The Woman and Me by Britney Spears is her very
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: first ever memoir. It's the first time Brittany is ever
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: telling her story in her own words.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: It released October.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Twenty fourth, twenty twenty three, literally almost to the day,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: twenty five years after her first hit single. It is
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the best selling memoir of all time. Let that sink
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: in of all time. So I've told you this before.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I feel sorry for anybody who released a memoir in October,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: because we all knew Brittany was coming.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Why would you try? Yeah, looking at you, Jada Kingdit Smith.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: It was like always looking at you, Jada Kinkitt Smith,
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: with your like inappropriate timing and texting me about your marriage.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I didn't ask you, Jada. I asked how will was
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: get a divorce? You have enough money to get a divorce.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Oh man, I got derailed because you brought up Jada
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: and I wasn't expecting.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: How dare you know be expecting me to bring up
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Jada after she's the only per I guess that. Julia
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Fox Woman also dared to release her memoir in October,
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: but Jada was like, I can go up against Brittany,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: and she probably obviously thought that she could.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Well, she's a triple virgo, so I'm sure she's a
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: lot to deal with.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: The audiobook is narrated by Michelle White Michelle Williams.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: I need to ify there was some confusion on the
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: internet for a hot minute about which Michelle Williams and
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: it blew people.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Out of the water.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: They weren't expecting it to be well britten, They weren't
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: expecting it to be so vulnerable. They just weren't expecting
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: this from our girl, Brittany, which I feel like is
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: kind of the first point I want to talk about,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: which is, how dare you not think Brittany give us
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: a quality memoir?
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: And then she deliver you know what I mean? Yeah, Well,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: and it just feels like it feels like we've come
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: full circle right like she was, because through the memoir,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: she lets us know that she was cognizant and aware
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: of every game that people were playing during her career.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: She just didn't know also how to play the game.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't that she wasn't aware, she just didn't
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: know how to combat it. And then we get to
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty three October twenty twenty three, and she's like,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: I know that everyone thinks that this is going to
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: be written like a Junie B. Jones book, But what
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: if I hire a really good ghost writer and what
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: if I just literally I think also that some of
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: the I think some of the interviews between her and
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: her ghostwriter were done via email, and I was like,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: that probably helped too, because you just rewrite what she said, yeah, well,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: and you can process it slower. You're not unprepared for
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: a question. It's just it's really just like a moment
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: for her to actually sit there. Like when I did
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: that email interview for Canvas Rebel, I wrote a novel
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: and I was like, this is not going to fly
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: looking like an actual interview between two people, because no
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: one is actually going to write a paragraph that I said,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: let alone I said a whole paragraph.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Right, because reading something and talking about something are two
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: different things, like if I'm writing about myself.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: As we get into.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: The novel, my very first takeaway after because you know,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I read it in a day.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: I spent the entire day reading it.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I rotated between audiobook and the physical book because I
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: still have a day job and I had to get
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: shit done. But I was telling another cookie that we
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: are friends with that. I love how she frames this
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: story with family being the center, the lack of it,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: and the desire for it. So a lot of people
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I know were a little shocked that certain people weren't
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: in the book, But I think that's what to me,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: that wasn't the point of the book. The point of
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: the book was to talk about the love, desire, and
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: loss of family.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And when I think about people being like, how
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: do she give Jessica Simpson a pass for saying the
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: one shitty thing about shaking her tatas in the early Ads,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: It's like, what do we have to rehash that for?
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: We understand that when we were growing up with the
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: early aughts and the pop princesses of the time and
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: our pop divas, that they were pinned up against one
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: another until they had to do a Pepsi commercial together, right, right?
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: And I think that what else I saw saw, Yeah,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: I guess saw from this book is a woman who
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: was like, I understand that the shitty behavior of my
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: family and the entertainment industry has nothing to do with
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: me and has everything to do about them. I'm still talented,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: I'm still good. I just didn't understand how to play
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: the game.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and so she's thirty nine, right, I think
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: she's in her forties now, Okay, so we try to
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: calculate her age and it's still a mystery, not a girl,
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: not yet a woman. But I can remember having to
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: go through three to five years of therapy before I
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: too could be like, hey, my generational trauma's not actually
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: on me. Hm. The body keeps the skull and it
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: didn't start with me and all of it. And it's
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: also not my fault that I'm living through the late
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: stages of capitalism and it's about to fall. And it's
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: also not my fault that a bunch of white men
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill don't like understand why my body deserves
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: medical care because I'm a woman and my life is
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: just supposed to be paying I guess. So for Britany
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: to come to that conclusion, even if it is in
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: her late thirties early forties, it's because she was robbed
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: of thirteen years. Like we all got to come to
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: that conclusion in our late twenties to make our thirties
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: the best years wherever going to have, and now she
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: has to do that in her forties. Yeah, because I
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: literally wrote down it reads to me like a story
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: of a woman who understands the monster's behavior from her family.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: The monstrous behavior from her family isn't about her, It's
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: about them and what is in their core and how
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: the system and how they understood how to use the system.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I think when you get the stories of her grandparents,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: that's crucial because she's setting up the story of her
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: because it's essentially the same thing, just.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Without all of the money and the theme. So it's
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: showing a pattern of family behavior, family trauma. And here
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: she is being like, I'm breaking that I've broken free,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: and now I'm breaking that.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: One thing I've seen float through my phone. Who knows
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: from where, or maybe someone said it out loud, is
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: I'm just surprised that Brittany's dad was smart enough to
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: pull this off. Like, he doesn't seem like a smart guy.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: He doesn't seem like a business guy. And I think
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: that speaks to how easy we make it to take
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: advantage of people, specifically women, specifically women. Why would Brittany's
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: dad have to be smart to take advantage of her? Right,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: even my boyfriends were smart, because she.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Literally like, even when you get further into the novel
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: and she's talking about like the way that her breakup
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: with Justin has handled, the way that her divorce from
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Kevin Cetterline is handled. It's very much it's like, it
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: very much felt like, yes, she's being manipulated to take
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: the heat, but also it's just one.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Of those things.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: It's just convenient, right, like for a guy to be like,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: or for somebody who's counseling her to be like, it's
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: actually probably better if you do it, because that's what
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: we have decided to believe when it's not really, Like
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: when she's talking about how she has to pay the
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: legal bills for Kevin, and she's like not mad about it,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: but she's like it just doesn't make any sense to me.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, so nobody told you.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: That whoever files for divorce is the one who's responsible
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: for all of it.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Like, why would she know that? Why would she know that?
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Why would she know that she was able to hire
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: her own lawyer at any time?
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: They probably gave her a flip phone with no internet.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Who knows if her mansion head Wi FI? Why would
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: she know the terms of her own conservatorship if everyone's
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: just talking through her dad. Yeah, it's like we build
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: a system where it is so easy to take advantage
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: of people who are struggling. Genshaw's in prison. She did
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: it to old people and disabled people. And when Genshaw
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: and when the FBI showed up on the set of
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Real Housewives looking for Jen, Whitney Rose was like, this
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: is how you take advantage of people over the phone
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: and you seal their information. I was like, Whitney Rose
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: still talks like a fourth grader, so she knows how
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: to take advantage of people. It's because we've made it
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: so easy in this country. Yeah, truly, truly. So for me,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: I know, the beginning of this.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Is feeling a little disjointed, I think because so I
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: just kind of am going to clarify now.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: For me, I really latched on to the motherhood stuff.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: That's what really kept me like her whole The whole
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: book is compelling everyone. I when I posted about the book,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: everyone I knew who was like, oh, I'm going to
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: read it.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I said, I read it in a day.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Keep that in mind, you will be compelled to finish
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: it immediately. And then they would come back and say
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I read it. I also couldn't put it down. So
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: it is a compelling read, and I think for me
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: the hardest parts to get through with all of the
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: motherhood stuff because of the shit she was put through.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: But before we get into that is their pre motherhood
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: stuff you want to touch on.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: I think that my biggest pain points when it comes
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: to the novel, because I'm not a mother, why would
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: I latch onto the mother right? Right? Is the breakdown
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: of the female relationships and how that feels very purposeful,
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: the mental health stuff and the pinning of sisters against
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: one another.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: So I have a note, and I think maybe you
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: and I talked about this offline, but I wrote down
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: God the socioeconomic difference and age difference between her upbringing
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: and Jimmy lynn upbringing. Someone reminded me she and Jamie
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Lynn are ten years apart, already a huge difference. I
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: have a sibling that's seven years older than me. We
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: are two completely different generations within one family, he said,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: gen xer, I'm a millennial.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: And also we.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Were in a very different socioeconomic status by the time
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I turned ten and thirteen and fifteen, right.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Like, So it's a huge difference. But to your point
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: about the breakdown of relationships, she's gone so much that
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: there is no opportunity for her and Jamie Lynn to
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: really build a sisterly bond, right like after Jamie Lynn's
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: born and she starts doing all the fame stuff. I
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: think when they're such a big gap, and even like
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: my sister and I are only seventeen months apart, and
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: we have also had to face, like I've had to
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: work through memories in my life when I'm like that
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: wasn't fair to pin me against my sister in that moment,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: or like that wasn't fair for someone to say to me,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: to make that comparison between me and my sister. We
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: were children and we were different people. So I think
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: if you're Lynn Spears, James Spears doesn't count because he's
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: just drunk in a bedroom somewhere, gambling all their money away,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: gambling all their money away. But if you're Lynn Spears,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: I think it falls onto you to make sure that
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Jamie Lyn's not a little bitch about Brittany in her career,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: to be like, no, like your sister is talented, you're
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: talented too. But I think there's also an over correction
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: there because it's like you can be just as talented
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: as Brittany and so that not that I'm almost gonna
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: sympathize with Jamie Lynn because then that feels like she
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: wasn't ever given a choice on what it was that
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: she was able to find her talent. Yeah, that's my
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: takeaway from this book.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: And after having listened to Chelsea's podcast about Jamie Lynn's memoir, like,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: my takeaway was, holy shit, Britney's the most talented one
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: of all of us. Now everyone's sort of walk in
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: her footsteps if they're any children after her, which is
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: what But there's no acknowledgment that Jamie Lynn doesn't have
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: the talent that Brittany has.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: the fact that this little sister has a different skill set.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: She's just never given the space to discover what that is.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, going through high school, my sister was a
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: direct year after me. So if I was a sophomore,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: she was a freshman, and my teachers would like, talk
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: me up. I'm very smart and charming, and you know,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: I think that would like crumble away at some insecurities
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: of her, and she'd be like, well, I can't do math,
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: and Natalie can read and do math and I'm like, luckily,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I wish you would have said out laut in my face.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Natalie does math real well. No, Naantali cheats at math
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: real well. Like she finds people to copy their homework
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: and then flirts with the student teacher. That's what Natley does.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: That that's the only way when I survive.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: We love a woman in stem, but one I am not.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: I'm a woman in steam. When they had the art part,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: I'm like, they're at the heart. That's it. That's it.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: But like so and again, we were basically Irish twins.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if that's a term anymore. I
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: think it still is. I don't know if it's appropriate,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: but that's it. Take it to the comments. And so
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: like our aunts and uncles treated us the same, like
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: we were kind of interchangeable. We ran in the same
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: friend groups. Brittan Lint and Jamie Lynn didn't have that.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: There's no reason for Jamie Lynn to not just look
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: up to her big sister as another adult in her family.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: And instead you got booze Hound gambling away all of
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: your money and then and a mother going I need
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: two cash cows out of this family now. Because alcoholism
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: won't just kill you and take you off.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: My plate, right, And that's the thing I was thinking
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: about it because I because I do get a little
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: like uncomfortable when people do compare the sisters, because my
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: sister is five years older than me, so half of
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: the space. But she and my brother are so close
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: in age, so she has the experience that you have, right,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: So my brother wasn't great in school. So then here
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: she comes and everyone's like, fuck, is this enough? This
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: is the Washington oh shit, And then she blows them
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: out of the water because she's so brilliant. And then
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: by the time I showed up, it's like, wait, you're
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: maybe you're related, and we don't look like we look
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: exactly like, but we don't look anything alike, right, because
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: we're all different shades of brown, So like people get confused.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: But I think one of.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: The things that my mom and dad did really really
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: well was this is we do family things. Be a
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: family time. It includes all of us. And sorry that
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: we had a child so much younger than the rest
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: of you, because now everything has to be appropriate for
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: a five year old to an extent, right, Like, I mean,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: I'm traumatized because of the Hitchcock movies we watched during.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Family film Night when I was a child.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: But the point is is they really did put an
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: emphasis on we are doing things the five of us
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: versus it feels like, okay, well.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Now we have Brittany over here that we have.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: To do stuff for her, so you need to wait
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: your turn, and you'll get my attention whenever you get
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: my attention. And it didn't. Ever, I didn't pick up
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: on whether or not they ever did family centric things
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: that like would create a bond. And I understand that's hard.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I have a former I have an alcoholic X so
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: it is hard to like do family things when there's
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: when addictions involved with that said, you know, we still
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: the model was always how do we build a family bond? Okay,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: this is how we build a family bond, and this
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: is what we're gonna do. Even though I have an
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: interesting relationship with my siblings, Now that's kind of our
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: own fault because as we got older and grew and changed,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: our relationship change. That is not the product. Well I
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: say that, but also people did. Strangers did pit us
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: against each other because I had the good hair and
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: my sister quote did not I use it in air
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: quotes because I think her hair is beautiful, because black
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: hair is beautiful. But people would say things like strangers
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: would say things to me like, oh my god, your
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: hair is so beautiful, said golden curls that were like beautiful.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: And here's my sister with her afro, and nobody got
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: it because it's nineteen eighty six.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Thanks good old American racism, right. Yeah, And I don't
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: even think school is where my relationship with my sister
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: started to break down. I had a manipulative grandmother in
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: order to get the love and affection from me or
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: my sister that she felt like she would deserve or
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: to get us to do the chore, or to get
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: us to do the thing, she'd go, well, Namley would
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: do it. Yeah. Never, And we never met up in
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: the middle to be like, you mean to tell me
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: that the week, because we used to switch off with
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Grandma's and they'd meet in the middle and switch us
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: like the parent trap, right, And I got really uncomfortable
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: that every time I slept in it was Emily wakes
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: up so early, you must want to spend that much
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: more time with me or whatever.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I'm a sleeper. I love to sleep. If we're friends,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: and it has nothing to.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Do with my lover or affection for you, right, And
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: it would like it would like make me have physical
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: like stress anxiety moments. My stomach would hurt, my head
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: would hurt. Meanwhile, I don't know that when my sister's
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: at my grandma's house, they're doing the same fucking bullshit. Right.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: So again, someone else's manipulative personality has written a code
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: in me and my sister's head where it's like, we're
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: not a team, we're adversaries. Like we've got to be
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: as good, if not better than the other one. Right.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: And I see that in Jamie Lynn.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: I see that in her the way that she acts
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: and behaves and the way that she presents herself. She's
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: constantly trying to prove that she's just as good as Brittany,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: and the entire world is telling her she is not.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: And I don't say that with Malice. I say it
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: with you just have a different you, don't. Brittany is
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: so iconic, and even when she blew up and showed
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: up for the very first time, you knew it was
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: going to be a game changer. And that's got to
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: be really hard to live in her shadow. Like that,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: but it's also no excuse to be it so.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Awful, right, No, And I think like, and I think
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: that's something that comes with therapy and maturity. So that
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: just means that, like, Jamie Lynn is still really emotionally immature,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: which probably means that there was still alcoholic related trauma
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: in her home because not only is it alcohol related trauma.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Now they have money because of Britney, but that's still
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: something like when my sister and I are a team,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: we're a fucking team. And then the moment that my
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: sister decides that I'm a worthless shit person, I'm a
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: worthless shit person until she gets out of that mode,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: and I just become the person who writes it out
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: because I'm like, this isn't actually about me. I'm just
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: gonna block her on my phone. I'm a scream to
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Julia and Stephanie. I'm a cry and then eventually she's
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: going to be like, I think that's something Dad planted
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: in my head or a mom or she's just gonna
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: get over it and then give me the Disney Plus
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: log in.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I feel like that's also Brittany. Brittany is
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: the same. I feel like Britain, and he's like, ah,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: oh oh oh, y'all are made up some story in
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: your head about whatever.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna wait it out. But also I'm
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: not letting you in my house ever again. Amen. And
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: that's why I'm the sibling that lives so far away?
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Am I? Britney Spears is Brittany me and I am her.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know that you're saying that as a joke,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: but I think there's a lot of similarities between. Like
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Brittany is kind of like the millennial woman in the
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: sense that when I was reading this book, there were
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: so many things she was saying that I was just like,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: that hits deep, because you know, every time we read
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: a memoir or a book, it becomes my personality because
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: that's how readers are. But with this particular memoir, especially
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: the motherhood stuff and just the way that she was
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: treated it really and the way that she kind of
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: came to conclusions about her family. I didn't have the
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: extremities that she had in any way, shape or form.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: But again, I did have an alcoholic partner that I
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: had to child with. I did have.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Lots of court battles and was in family court a lot,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: and so there was a lot of what she went
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: through that mirrored what I went through to an extent
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: that I'm just like I.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't be surprised.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: And this is probably why it's the most sold memoir
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: because people are reading it and going, holy fuck, I
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: see some of myself and her.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know what, Jewell. Sometimes I run, sometimes
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: I hide, Sometimes I'm scared of you. But all I
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: really want is still change too tight, make it right,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: be with you day and night. But baby, all I
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: need is time.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Why was I seven years old learning the choreography to
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: sometimes be like this is exactly how I feel all
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: the time, all the time. Nailed its, nailed me led it.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: And she is being Another big thing is these are two.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: This was a mentally ill family, like it is a
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: mentally ill family across the board. You're not coming out
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: the Spears family without being mentally ill. Why because it
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: is a generation of mentally ill men, of using women
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: into mental illness.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Again, That's why it's so important that she had included
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: the story about her grandmother's and what happened to her grandmother,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Because she's setting up, she's setting the stage for us
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: to understand that this behavior from her father wasn't out
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: of the.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Blue right in that when you have that context, it
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: does kind of chip away at his authority on the matter,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: where it's like, I don't believe that we should just
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: blankedly trust Sweeney Todd's little boy and just decide that
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: he's fine. And I also think that it gives us
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: empathy and it softens us to the weird shit that
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: she does.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: So the talking in the British accent. As soon as
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: she said it just makes me feel closer to my
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: grandma when I do it, and I miss my grandma
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: all the time, I was like, well, Tuck.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: At least it's a cute accent. I wave around a
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: fake cigarette whenever I miss Peg. Whenever.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Whenever I miss Peg, I just startticulating with my fake
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: cigarette and people are like, when did you quit smoking?
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: I'm like, never once. I never had a cigarette in
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: this hand. Let me just shake Peg off of me
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: for a second. Yeah.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: I dip into a Southern accent when I missed my
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: granny too. Like the thing is is, I think because
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of memoirs try to do the
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: whole like here's how the origin story of my family,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: but they don't connect the dots by the time they
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: get to their own story, and Brittany does. She's very
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: clearly setting the stage and connecting the dots of why
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: her grandmother's story is so important because I do the
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: same thing. I don't, and I'm terrible at connecting the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: dots because it is very important to me. It is
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: very much part of my identity that my grandfather is
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: an immigrant. It is very much a part of my
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: identity that my grandmother and grandfather on my father's side,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: you know, you grew up well, my grandmother grew up passing,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: and so like, these things are are part of my
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: DNA that caused me to be who I am today,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: are the reasons why my family behaves in certain ways.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I couldn't connect those dots in a memoir for you
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: if I wanted to. Not yet I'm not ready to.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to yet because I'm still processing.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: All of it. Okay. I one time my therapist called
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: me on something and it was every time that I
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: was going to go deep into like how I actually
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: felt about something, I do this like it's almost like
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: a laugh that I'm swallowing the laugh. And when she
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: mimicked it back to me, and I was like, oh, fuck,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: that's what Cindy does. That's what hot mom does whenever
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: she's so pissed, you know, she's so frustrated and miserable
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: at whatever white lady bullshit she's miserable about about her
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: marriage that's mediocre and her kids that are a mess.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: And I was like, and if you add a little
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: gravel onto it, I've heard Peg do it. So I've
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: heard Peg, my aunt, Melissa, my mom. We all got
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: this fucking little trigger noise that we make. And I go,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: it's literally a swallowing, swallowing our big anger emotions.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: And I probably couldn't like put it down in a memoir,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: but I sure as.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Hell wrote a poem about it. And then I started
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: outlining a book about like what if I took every
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: woman in my family and explored her anger through poetry? Yeah,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: so look.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: For that coming twenty twenty five. Silent enraged woman by Nataly.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Can't wait for it. But like, it's when you connect
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: those dots and you so people are mad that she's
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: like showing a little bit of empathy to her dad,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: which I did not pick up on it at all.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: And I pick up on that either Natalie.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: People are like, she's so much easier on her dad
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: and brother than she is on our mom.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: And I was like, what Number one? Brian? Who? Who
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: is Brian? He's just a man that got into a
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: car accident. He didn't have to be here. They fucking
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: dragged him around. They're like, Brian, you're the firstborn, You're
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: the eldest boy, Like get in, get in loser.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: October twenty twenty three, baby, when I clawed spert he
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: had a brother, I was like, who is this Brian
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: easier of the brother because he's literally inconsequential Yeah, yeah.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Which can't be good for his male pride.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: But especially if he's got that Jamie spears DNA, going
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: like who is he?
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Her? Is he?
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Is he harming people? Do we need to check to
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: see if he's also a villain? Like what is the
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: story about Brian?
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: So I think what happens is when you can talk
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: honestly about the shit that has happened in your generational family,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: when you can talk honestly about like, hey, like, no
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: one was real cool about antidepressants in the eighties and nineties,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: the early adds, let alone, the seventies and the sixties.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: So when my grandmother became a widow and her oldest
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: was sixteen and her youngest was four, ooh, maybe that
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: explains to me why she was cold on holidays. Maybe
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: that explains to me why my great uncle cries every
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: time he looks at me. It's not I'm not giving
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: them a pass. I'm not saying, like, hey, Peg, you
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: owe me an apology from the grave. I've actually like
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: laid on PEG's grave and just forgiven her while I'm
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: sobbing to be like, I get it. Being a woman
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: is hard, and then when you're the strong woman, it's
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: even harder. All your fucking kids and all your fucking
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: grandkids kissed me.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Off Peg because they're not strong. And then I just
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: tattle and I cry and I just forgave her. And
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: that's a healthy move. The healthy move is to understand
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: that your dad's dad was an alcoholic. It's not it's
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: not like she goes and then I love him every way,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: and I just know that my dad thought he was
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: doing what was best by me, and the courts were
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: doing what was best by.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Him, and that was fine.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: That's not what she said, which to me that's forgiveness
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: to me, that would be for like like delusional forgiveness. Yes,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: she very clearly is like, I'm you're not allowed in
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: my house.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: That's a boundary. As we know my family, my parents'
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: marriage ended in a fiery affair. And after not speaking
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: to my mom very regularly for three years, she came
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: into my house. She sat me down and she's like,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: let me tell you some adult things about my marriage.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: And then you're just like, well, fuck, I don't have
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: to forgive your action. I don't have to forgive how
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: it made me feel like I was in limbo for
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: a little bit about whether or not I actually had
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: a mom. But I would do anything to get those
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: three years back where I just understood where my mom
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: was coming from and I could get over my bullshit
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: and shut out a lot of voices in my head
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: that were like, no, your mom's a bad person, right right?
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Which can move into the motherhood stuff? Are you? Are you? Okay?
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: We've brought in Peg and Cindy, we might as well
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: move We got.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: To move into the mom's stuff now. Okay, So the
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: motherhood stuff. When she is talking about being pregnant, first
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: of all, I'm like I didn't I remember that time.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: The only reason why I knew about Kevin Federline was
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: because of Britney Spears.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: So when she talks about his career, I was like,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: what is happening? I don't know.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: I don't remember none of this, Like he was famous
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: because of her?
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Like how did he make all these friends? When it's
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: like Kevin b in the in the studio with he Diddy?
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: What did he did? He want to look at Kevin Fetderlin?
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: And then later he's a joke in the movie seventeen
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: again when zac Efron shows up in the high school
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: and he's like.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: This is cool. I look cool, Kate. That was just.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Photographed wearing this exact thing, and everyone's like making fun
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: of him and like calling him names, and it's like, no,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: So that was a disconnect for me. And if if
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: it wasn't a disconnect for someone else, please.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Let us know. Because I she named a song that
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: he produced, no idea of that song. I was like,
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: what I go? I go? I can't even like I
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: could still throw out a good portion of umbob And
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: I was a handsoen hater. We all can, right.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Because mbop was like everywhere, But she talks about. So
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: she opens up her relationship like giving us this understanding
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: that she's just really wanting stability, and I think it's Oh.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: She literally says on page one hundred and fourteen, I
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: thought Kevin would give me stability. I thought Kevin would
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: me the stability I was creating and the freedom too.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: And that's that's when you're like, if you didn't know
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: the story, that's when you're like, that's Dominus because something
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: bad is going.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: To happen well, and I think so the whole visual
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: of him cradling her for hours in a pool, I
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: was like, this is why it's scary to be a
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: mentally ill girly, because we're prayed on. We are prayed on.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: I have had my depression and my anxiety twirled around
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: into not so that men get what they want and
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: it looks like them being kind to me, and it
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: looks like them being cruel to me, and sometimes it's
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: a nice, like little mixture of fuckery in the middle,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: and you never want to think it. You never want
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: to think that that Jason Alexander Kid got drunk in
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Vegas and was like, I'm going to take my best
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: high school friends of money from her, and you never
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: want to think that a guy cradling you in the
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: pool and like singing adelwise is going to one day
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: divorce you and be such a huge part in your
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: reputation being torn down, so your dad can basically make
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: you a slave of your own home. And yet here's
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: this dude, and he's a backup dancer, which, don't get
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: me wrong, I respect the fuck out of background dancers.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I went to the erastour. They work hard, they work hard.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: So here's Kafed. His name is fucking Kafed, and he's
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: just looking at a frazzled and shaken little girl and
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: he's like, I'm gonna cradle this bitch in the pool.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: And then the moment that you put his name on
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: your paperwork, he's like, and now I'm gonna do whatever
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: the fuck I want. Yeah, because she talks about like
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I just.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Assumed this is what marriage was, like, you know, I'm
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: supposed to, you know, be in deference to my husband,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: And he's doingever he wants.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: And like I remember the shar Jackson drama, like that
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: is very clear in my head.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: So to me, it's like, oh man, and she didn't.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Want to see his bad behavior, probably because he did
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: hold her in the pool for so long, but all
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: of the signs were there with the way he treated
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: shar Jackson, and it was it's hard. So so she
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: has these kids, she's clearly having some postnatal trauma, emotional trauma.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: We could call it postpartum thank you, It could be
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: it could be true postpartum depression where she really is
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: on the verge and needs support.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Or it could just be the baby blues because she's
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: had a baby and.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: We all get a little sad after we pop out a.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Human from carrying it around for as long as we did.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Birth is trumadic. It tears your body into two And
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: if you don't know that, watch sister was. Yeah.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: So I'm reading her essentially her early motherhood story, and
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: I'm being transported back to my own experience, which was
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Alone a lot.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I had a friend who did step up and essentially
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: take care of me emotionally, because there was no emotional
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: care from the person who got me pregnant. There was
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of lack of trust. And so when I
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: went into labor early because I fell. So that's already scary.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: There's this moment in the hospital where they're like, who's
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: going in with you? Because I'd have an emergency cesarean
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: because my son was breach and I had found out
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: like a week before at my doctor's appointment that he
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: was breached, and so they're like, we have time, we
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: have time. From the flip, it's going to be fine,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: it's going to be fine. Well, then I fell and
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: then it wasn't fine because I went into labor after
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: falling and it was in the.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: I forget what it's called little sack.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Of juice's tour, which is why they had to go
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: into delivery. Because if I had fallen in and got
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: into waybur and everything else was fine, it would have
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: but like, my water's literally like ripped. It was so
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: small that it took us a couple of days to realize, like,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: oh no, your water's leaking, Like you need to have
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: this baby like now, No, So I wanted my mom
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: because it's a big surgery they cut into your body
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: to take out this human. Fast forward a year and
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: I'm having a conversation with a friend and that was
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: the best decision because, as we all know, black women
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: die in childbirth all the time. It is a horrific statistic,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: and now white women are dying in childbirth. So really
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: just America hates that we want to that we have children,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: but they force us into it.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Anyway, fast forward a year. I have an invan.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: I'm talking with a friend and he makes a comment,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: I can't believe you didn't let him.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Into the delivery room. I would have slit someone's throat,
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: And I said I had to have a cesarean. I
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: wanted my mom. I want my mom number one, Like,
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: if men would like to be more a part of
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: my body trauma and my pregnancy and my birth, they
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: could still.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Up because seeing Natalie, what if something had gone wrong
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: my heart rate dipped, I go unconscious.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: That tiny Italian.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: I call mother is going to fucking fight to keep
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: me alive. The man who disappeared on me and his
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: mother made excuses on why he couldn't show up for me,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: is not going to fight to see my life if
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: something happens in the room.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: No, they're just gonna twiddle their thumbs and then cry
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: to their mom and dad about how traumatic, and then
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: at your funeral.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Make it about them till your parents Like that was
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: a really hard day for me, and I really don't
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: think that I'm over it, right right, So like I
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: saw that tone, that idea that you know, I.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: Can't believe you didn't let him in the in the
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: jew or room vibe.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: In her stories about trying to raise and be with
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: her children. All this woman wanted. She literally told us
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: in her book, I was ever. Everything said about motherhood
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: was true for me. Everything about motherhood is true for me.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: I loved being a mother. I love being a mother.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: And then here comes a bunch of fucking men who
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: are like, yeah, you.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Don't need your kids. We're gonna fuck you over.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: And she doesn't understand why, because it doesn't make sense
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: when someone willingly wants to keep their children. You're just
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: exacerbating her mental health issues, causing more trauma, breaking the
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: bonds between her and her children. And then the custody
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: shit got to me too, because that shit is so manipulative.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: You have to live a perfect life.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: So like when she talks about how her mom when
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: she and Paris go out for the first time and
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: god only knows how.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Long, and she got a babysit.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Sh did all the things right, she was responsible, She
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: had a babysit her somebody she trusted, her mom, who
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: she probably shouldn't been trusting at the time. She made
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: sure to like it was a kind of a controlled environment.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: She was with somebody that she trusted. Paris health in
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: she gets a little buzz, because that's what you do
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: when you're in your early twenties, mid twenties, because that's
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: a twenty year old few. She comes home, her mother
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: brates her for coming home a little tipsy and just
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: makes her feel like shit. Also an experience I've had
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: multiple times after having a child.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, while Brittany and these this loser were married, they
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: were married people, and he had all the access he
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: could ever want to these fucking kids. Where was he right?
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: Because she's dragging infants to studios and he's like, don't
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: let them in, right, you told Brittany who gave Britney
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: the address? Right?
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: So that part, I'm just like, he clearly doesn't want
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: to be a dad, and yet he's winning the custody
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: battle because because he's relying so heavily on the fact
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: that she's quote unwealth, she's unwell because you guys won't
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: stop fucking with her well.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: And again, we see this a lot where it's like
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: you're basically an absentee father until I'm ready to leave you.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: And it's like, not when am I going to see
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: my kids? Probably as much as you see them now
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: once a week Joe Jonas Joe Jonas, Jojonas. But that's
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: so many. That's so many divorce cases. Women walk away
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: from these idiot, useless men, and they're like, when am
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: my kids? And it's like number one, I have to
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: pack lunches for when the kids have to go see
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: you because you don't feed them, like.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: DM Okay, listen, And I'm so glad this is behind
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: the paywall because I'm not ready to publicly admit.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: I publicly have admitted.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: A lot about my ex and our relationship and our
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: co parenting lack therap, but there's a lot of stuff
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: I'm still not ready to talk about very publicly. But
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: i will say this, the amount of times my child
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: was dropped off after eight hours with his dad and
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: he's like, I'm hungry. What do you mean you're hungry?
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: It's seven o'clock at night. Didn't Dad feed you dinner?
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: No?
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Did you have any food today? No?
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: No, Because they don't think unless they're.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Hungry and I'm like, how do you have a small
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: human and you don't think I should fee that?
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: Is it a money thing?
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Because you know what I did when I didn't have
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: money to cook dinner? Call the grandparents said, hey, we
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: love to see you for dinner tonight. You free, And
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: they don't know I don't have the money for dinner.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: But they're sure as fuck thrilled we showed up because.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: That means they got to see their grandkid.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: I have countless friends and women in my life. I
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: have binders full of women in my life who basically
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: have to write fucking sub plans for their husband should
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: they be left alone with the children for more than
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: an hour, Like fucking post it notes, fucking this is
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: how you turn on the oven. T Shirts still go
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: on torsos, and pants still go on bottoms, even if
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: it is a girl like yeah yeah.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: So In the book, it's a page one forty six
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: when talks about the custody bend, and she says, as
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: part of his bid for full custody, Kevin tried to
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: convince everyone that I was completely out of control.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: He started to say, I shouldn't have my own kids
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: anymore at all.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: So to your point, Natalie, where the fuck was he
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: when she's dragging her kids all over the state of
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: California trying to find this fucking man.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Also, I'm only trying to like good for Britton, and
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: she was trying to make her marriage work, and she
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: had a lot of Southern influence on why we make
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: our marriages work. But I'm listen, we just watched the tutors.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna Anne of cleaves that shit. If you don't
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: want to be in my house, don't be in my house.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not dragging my kids all over the US of
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: a trying to find your ass more than once. Don't
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: come on, I'll tell the kids you're dead. I don't know.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: So that's the thing, because what was so heartbreaking because
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: the story about her mom and the way that they're
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: trying to portray her again, it transported me back.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I have day.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Planners noting every single move of my child's father, especially
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: during the years that we were in family court, because
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: he tried to make claims and he lost every single time.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Because I was raised by a cop and a social
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: worker who are slightly paranoid people, and kind of rightfully so,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: because again, child of an immigrant, a black man, and
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: so we constantly have to prove that we aren't the
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: ones and the wrong. That is a generational drama that
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: I'm fucking tired of. But that is my advice to
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: any woman who has small children that tells me they're
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: getting a divorce, I tell them, get a fucking day planner.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Write everything down, because if you write it in a
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: day planner, it's not suspicious to the husband because you're
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: just keeping a calendar of the kids events and what
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: you have to do to keep it all straight. But
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: really what you're doing is tracking is every fucking move
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: because you're gonna end up sitting in family court and
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: having to prove that he's lying about how much he
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: does for the children.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Also, like, if you ever want to, like try to
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: stiff out what women and your family still have internalized misogyny.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Listens to them talk about some other woman still for worse,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: I don't get it. He's a great dad, he like,
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: he shows up and he works hard.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: There's a story too where she talks about how her
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: kids are a little bit older. I forget which son
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: it was, but the family's over. Jamie's there, everyone's there,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: her boys are there, and like the one of the
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: boys gets upset, and so Jamie's like, so he walks
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: off and goes into his room, because that's probably the
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: best choice when you're angry at someone, which is a
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: thing that Jamie doesn't understand because he's a worthless piece
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: of garbage.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: And then he fucking knocks it.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: So then he's so mad that this child walked away
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: from him he bangs down the door, and then later
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Kate f uses that as a reason why Brittany can't
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: have her kids, and I'm like, this man, this, any
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: tiny little man named Jeanie Spears, is so mad that
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: a child exerted autonomy that you were willing to hurt
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: a child, Like you are a monster, sir, Like we
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: already knew that you were a monster.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: You just keep proving that you are a monster.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: And now you have no consideration for the fact that
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: that's gonna look bad and be a thing that's gonna
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: get brought to court. Because like, not that I lived
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: in fear raising my child. I didn't live in fear
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: per se, but I definitely lived with the knowledge that
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: if somebody decided that something I did or something they
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: witnessed was bad enough, they could call the cops, and
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: we all know bad enough doesn't mean shit.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: It could be the smallest thing. It could be like
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: an one off. His socks don't match, Yeah, it doesn't match.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: He smells a little bit today, like it doesn't matter.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: And so when Kate, that's like.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: You know what, she doesn't mean to have the kids
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: because look at this horrible man that's in her life
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: that hurt my children.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Put that horrible man in charge of that wily woman.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: Right, It's like, it's if this isn't a very strong
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: anecdotal but also legal, you know, but also not anecdotal
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: proof that men win at.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: All costs, then I don't know what would be.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Because she is trying so hard and everyone is, she's
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: basically collectively getting gas lit. She multiple I played the game,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: I did exactly what they told me to do, and
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: they still fucked me over. Like that is a repeated
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: That is the theme of the book.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Shouldn't we talk about like justin repeatedly cheating on her?
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So through this book we not only find out
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: like it had already been leaked about the abortion, so
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: that was no longer a shock to me. The guitar
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: solo that he played to while she blood out on
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: the bathroom floor was a little concerning, but also that
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: they had to have a quote unquote secret private abortion
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: in her own home.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: I was like, that's some dirty dancing shit. That is
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: some dirty dancing shit. I was like, something could go wrong.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: You don't know justin you're a moron. You have rammen
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: for heir. And then he's watching her bleed out and
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: rhythm pain and like have the Exorcist on their bathroom floor,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: and he's just like, I know what'll make you feel better,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Brittany and guitars, guitar, and he's just like.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Bye bye bye, bye bye. God must despay your love
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: is like justin, it hurts and I want to go
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: to the doctor. We can't that all room in my career.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: He's swimming deep. Your soul is like the secret just
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: like this subbortion when I look into your asa. No not,
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: it's true.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: The US Survey will take my side over you. I
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: mean yeah, for years they did. And I think that
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: also highlights just how much men are taught. Like he's
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: clearly been He's quick. Okay, I don't want to say
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: it like this.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna staate like this to me it's clear he's
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: probably a narcissist, honestly, because he's just even.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: When you watch videos of him, like when like, he's
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: just like I've been told I'm cute and funny and
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: talented my whole life and you're welcome, you.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: Know, and genuine what do you mean? Genuine doesn't want
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: to be my best friend? Right? Sit down, white boy Jinguine,
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: don't want nothing to do with you, fucking culture vulture.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: That's what he is. But what really got me is
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: that Britain's like I knew that he slept around, I
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: knew that he fucked a girl in every state on
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: the tour. I knew that he was fucking every other
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: background dancer and probably making a part of her contract
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: to keep her job. Yeah, Like, and I just forgave
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: him because I loved him, and I knew that the
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: job was hard, and I knew that thing gets to
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: people's heads. And I thought that at the end of
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: the day he loved me too. And then the one
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: day that I was like I would like to be
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: dicked down by someone who might actually like me, He's like,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: crap me up, going on like all of the talk shows,
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: being like she did me wrong. Brittany broke my heart.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: I'm America's golden boy, and she broke my heart, Like, no,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: because men can't just do the shitty thing and then
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: leave me alone. They have to do the shitty thing
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: and then go on their Like I have had men
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: go on PR tours to try to get and I'm
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: who am I that you have to go on a
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: PR tour to try and get people on your side?
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm fucking amazing because you're trying to make
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: yourself seem insane.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: I told you the story about how I ran into
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: somebody who we became friends later, but like they were
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: sort of spending time with my ex and like it whatever.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: So then fast forward five years, she's in a happy,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: healthy relationship with someone else. Were hanging out one night
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: and she's like, and this is like after weeks of
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: hanging out together. And she was like, you're actually don't
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: take a strong way, but like I really enjoyed spending
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: time with you. And I was like, why would I
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: take that the wrong way? Like that's weird, No, I
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: under spending time with you. Two She's like, listen, I
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: have to tell you tells me every dirty, nasty, mean,
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: horrible thing my ex ever said about me. And then
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: she was like, and we believed him when he said
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: that you kept him away from his kids.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: We believed him in the beginning, and then it.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Was interesting because she said something like and then we
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: realized that he's probably lying because after three months he
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: made like he never saw like it was the same
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: story over.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: And over and over again, like we never saw make
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: ef fort blah blah.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: And she's like, and now spending time with you like
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: you're fun, I you're off like I it makes me
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: happy when you're like when I get here and you're here,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: and I was just like thanks, And then I went
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: home and fucking cried because who else is he saying
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: that shit to.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: The entire town?
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: The entire town, which is why probably why I have
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: a really hard time living here.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Because people are like, well, of course, like Justin had
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: to go out a PR tour for his career because
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: he broke up with America's actual sweetheart. And you think
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: that you get that, like you think you get like
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: why his PR team would tell him that, okay whatever,
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: But then you look around and you're like, wait a minute,
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: Jules's ex did that. My ex did that my dad
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: did that to my mom, went to her family's home,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: told a bunch of stories about her to her brothers
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: and sister, and then people believe them. And then people
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: are like, of course, you did nothing wrong, you beautiful prince.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: And the thing is is it's not even that they
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: always win, it's that their egos always win over us.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: So when I left, you were like, what do people
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: think bless of me? We can't have that. I'd rather
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: she die. And that's why women get murdered. But also
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: that's why they try to murder our reputations, because we
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: had it within us. Even if they break up with us,
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: they're like, ah, people really like her, though. I don't
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: want anyone thinking I'm a dick. Better just spread rumors
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: around town. And men who don't want to be fathers
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: don't want anyone to know that they don't want to
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: be fathers. That's why the abortion had to be a secret.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: And I think that's part of the flaw of the
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: patriarchy as well, because I think we need to be
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: able because my whole platform still to this day is
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: if he had just told me he didn't want to
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: be a dad, I'd have been like, cool, peace. I'll
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: do it on my own, and you know what, I'll
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: even defend you. If people are like, well that's shitty,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: I'll be like, no, I don't want someone involved who
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to be involved.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: Instead, you lied to me, You told me you wanted
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: to be involved, and then you spent.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: The next fifteen years fucking around and screwing me over
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: because you didn't know how to be a dad and
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: wasn't sure.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: But everyone was telling you you needed to step up.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: You don't need to fucking step up.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: I might be the only person on the planet who's
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: gonna give men a pass to say you can.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Walk away because I don't want you involved if you're
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: just gonna fuck me over, because it will make it
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: easier on me if you.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Just go yes, because I was lucky enough to have
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: a support system who was like, we don't need them.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: He's just making everything harder. You don't need him the
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: whole like, please just leave me and be gone.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: And the idea that it's not just the patriarchy set
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: them up for failure, but their own gaslighting set them
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: up for failure. Because here's Cafan cradling you in a
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: hot tub and you're like, I just want to be
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: a mom. I just feel like they'd let me take
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: a nap if I was only a mom. And then
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: Cafan to get his payday is like, I'll have your babies.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: I got two of my own there, Charlotte's when they
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: started dating, right, And I one hundred percent believe Brittany
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: when she said she had no idea that he was
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: dating Shar Jackson. Shar Jackson was kind of out of
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: the limelight by that point, and.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: That they had two babies. I was like, right, because
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: men lie.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: But remember that picture where they were all together at
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: some sort of barbecue or something and She's sitting on
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: Katefed's lap and Shark's there with all of their children
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: and Shar's pregnant.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think eventually she she eventually has to
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: find out that she got these kids because friends read
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: him out right, right, So, like, I just believe that
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: it was probably several months, two weeks to years before
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: he owned up to it. Yeah, yeah, because men feel
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: like they don't have to tell you everything, and then
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: that's not lying.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, I told you last time we had a
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: recording that I was raised in that you don't need
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: to know everything, and then it turns out a lot
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: of people view.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: That is line. But that's how I was raised.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: I was raised in an environment where it's like, you
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: get the details that I'm willing to share with you,
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: and if that's lying, then that's what you think.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: I will say that part of this memoir for me
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: was also reliving some of those key moments, like I
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: had forgotten that she smashed the shit out of a
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: paparazzi car with an umbrella until she said it and
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: then the photos like literally flashed through my eyes. I
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, I do remember that, Brittany, And I
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: appreciate I appreciate all of the context, like all of it.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: She put everything.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: She gave context to everything, and that context makes absolute
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: sense because you know some people are like, well, here's
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: the context, and you're like, that's still sus. Yeah, there's
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: nothing sus about the context she's given us.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: It makes complete sense. So I think, like one of
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: the biggest themes of this memoir for me, besides like
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: all men are liars and don't you trust them? Don't
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: you trust so is it is still very scary And
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: I said this when we did our pre episode. It
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: is still very scary to be a mentally a woman,
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: and mental illness is on the rise because of late
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: stage capitalism giving us all anxiety and depression. The literal
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: daily trauma that is capitalism and misogyny has made us
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: all to the point where like everyone is claiming mental illness.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: And that's why the boomers don't believe that it exists,
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: because they refuse to take responsibility for abusing us. But
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: it's still like, it doesn't matter if you're a mom.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter if you've got money. It doesn't matter
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: if you married the guy. It doesn't matter if you
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: try to make it work, if you overlooked him cheating.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: At the end of the day, you're a woman, and
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: you're a woman who dared to struggle, and you didn't
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: know how to struggle quietly, like all of the women
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: in my life and all of the women in Burniey
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: Spears is like knew how to struggle quietly, and then
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: the moment that they couldn't do it quietly, they got
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: put into a building.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest thing is that even in
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: our suffering, we still have to be silent.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, And that's why in my family, all of the
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: women have some weird swallow thin where we're all like, yeah,
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: it's that women have to not only do we get
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: the you know, dream life of being abused every day
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: just by the systems, but we also get this bonus
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: gift of having to just like put on a pretty
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: face in the face of all of our adversity. And
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Brittany shaved her head instead, so they locked her in
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: her bedroom.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: You know, when I was in eighth grade, I was
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: having a really hard time, and I too shaved my head.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: And you know what, my parents did not do lock
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: you in your bedroom. Correct. I'm really surprised that they didn't, though, girl,
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: they probably said, don't mean a fair That was a
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: cry for help, I can tell you that right now.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: Like when she was saying that shaving her head was
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: a cry for help, I was like, yep, been.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: There, been there. Listen, my shaving my head is dying
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: my hair purple. Every time I'm sad, I'm like, what
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: if I had pink hair?
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Because when you look in the mirror and you're like,
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: look at my gorgeous pin care, look at my gorgeous
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: pink hair, And is that going to fade away into
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: a beautiful silvery purple that I'm going to pretend is beautiful.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: It makes me look like a witch. Yes, yes.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: The other thing that remember when we recorded last time,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm so curious to know if she
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: even truly wanted to be super duper famous. And I
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: appreciate that she was, like it was great at first,
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: but after two years, fuck it, it was not fun.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: I hated it.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: I didn't want it, but it kept forcing me and
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: I was like, that's what I needed to know.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: There it is. And I think a big theme of
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: this book is is still that like, because of the systems,
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: it's so easy to so rip away our agency and
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: are to me and take our lives away. Yeah, and
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: taking our life away, does it always be like doing
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: the decency of giving me, like a really good Netflix
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: murder documentary to my name, Like it literally will just
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: be like we'll just lock you in your bedroom until
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: you're ready to behave right and the thing right.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: And so my experience in Brittany's experience are literally happening simultaneously.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: So her children are being ripped away and she's being
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: forced to go into court all the time. The threat
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: of my child is being is there, and I'm forced
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: to go to court all the time, and the fact
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: that she has money and power and fame and I
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: do not. But yet we have a similar experience with
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: the court system, except I mean, I was literally trained
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: to survive court. That's the one thing my parent and
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: she wasn't. And that's that's the one thing I'll give
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: my parents credit for. I mean, I'll give them credit
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: for other things, but I have to give them credit
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: for that because my dad very much saw that people
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: of color and women were destroyed repeatedly in court when
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: he was a bailiff, and he did everything in his
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: power to ensure that his children were not those people.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: And again we say that all the time.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: I've said it about Kasha, I've said it about Britney,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: I've said it about countless women. Where it's like, if
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: the resources are there, the resources are there.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: But sometimes it's just fucking unlucky that you got your
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: parents say you did, and no one told you how
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: to navigate fame. No one tells you how to navigate
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: a court because they wanted it themselves too.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: They wanted that fame, so they got that fame through
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: their daughter, which is sick.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: And like I've heard women who are older than me
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: and are supposed to be role models to me say, hey,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: if it gets you an oscar and a career, that's
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: going to end up to billions And all it needed
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: was one blowjob. Stop whining that you had to give
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: a blowjob again. Should you wonder? I wonder if any
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: of the women in my life still have eternalized misogyny.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Ask them about Harvey Weinstein or the Kesha court case.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Like there are ways, like there are tricky ways to
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: just like ask questions and be like, ooh, your head
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: ain't right. So a lot of people are probably like, hey, Brittany,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: you gotta mansion. You didn't have to work, you got
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: to twirl all day? Was it that hard? And she's saying, yeah,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: it was, And it's allowed to be that hard.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: It's absolutely allowed to be that hard being locked up,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: whether it's incarceration or in your own home. I mean, like,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: did we all forget what it was like to not
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: be allowed to leave our houses in twenty twenty correct
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: times thirteen years?
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: So when it comes to I also had a really
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: smart point about her therapy, but also like her empathy
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: towards her family.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: I had a therapy friend reach out to me with comments,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: but I'll put it in my outro go ahead.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: So anyways, people are like, why is she being so kind? Why?
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: And I just think that she's being honest about her
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: family sit But I will also say this, our body,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: as a survival tactic, will do a lot of things
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: to numb that pain that we have experienced through our
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: family and through the people who are supposed to love us.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: So I find that very interesting that when people sit
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: down to write a memoir, it probably is really hard
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: to remember how mad or sad or like in pain
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: you were because of it, because your body has done
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: everything it can to be like no, no, no, uh
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: uh uh, We're just gonna feel icky in our tummy
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: should that happen again, so we know that we're in
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: a bad spot. So when people are like, I can't
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: believe that she's not just like railing against the machine
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: and putting all caps in the book and whatever, and
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: it's like, it's because she's not in that place anymore.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: If she was writing the memoir from the conservatorship, it
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: probably was going to just all be angry emojis. But
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: she's grown and now she's looking back with perspective, and
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: I think that's a really important part of memoir that
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: people like miss and it comes to her therapy. I
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: don't actually think that Brittany was an addict, but I
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: think that they kept telling her she was an addict
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: and treating her like an addict to further discredit her.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: So I don't even know if Brittany would be like, no,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: I'm not an addict. It's like, where are you addicted
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: to soda? Pop?
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: Me too well, And that's the thing she talks about
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: in the book a lot. She's like, I did something
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: they didn't like, so they put me in rehab again,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: and I'm just like, it makes the map map. It
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: doesn't make sense for you to be in rehab. You
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: didn't actually do anything. They're forcing drugs on you. They're
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: forcing drugs on you.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: Thank God she did do some of the work, and
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: whether she did it on her own through some journaling
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: or she got a therapist that she could trust. I
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: don't know how I'd ever go into a therapy office again.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: If I've just been forced to sit through AA meetings
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: that I don't belong in, and I've been sent to
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: like the girl interrupted mental hospital and I'm literally listening
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: to people talk to their demons, and I'm like, I
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: was just hoping I could get a coloring book, but
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: like Birthas over here is really struggling. Yeah, do you
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: want me to tell you?
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: And you can have it in your recording too, because
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: I can say both my therapy friends. Okay, So regarding
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: her therapy at the facilities, so a therapist friend of
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: mine reached out and because she had listened to our
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: Britney episode, Oh, and she's like, I got I got it.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: I got to inform you guys on some stuff. So
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: she was telling me that mental health being used in court,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: clients hold their privilege always except if they sign a
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: release or if they are using their mental health in court.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: So basically, if someone says I did this because I
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: was depressed, they are giving the court's permission to review
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: their mental health records to determine if they really were depressed.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: She always and she went on to say that she
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: always cautions her clients before using it because it does
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: open up a whole thing. So she was saying in
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: Britney's case, where she was under conservatorship, she did not
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: hold her privilege anymore. So not only did she not have,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: So she lost complete autonomy. And I think that's something
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: that we forget about to when it comes to mental health,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: because I also didn't understand that.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: So I appreciate my friend right now. I appreciate that too.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: So then when she read the book and then reached
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: out again, it was like, my first thoughts about her
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: treatment is that it sounds like she was evaluated, and
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: that's not therapy. The point there is to basically look
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: for things that are wrong with her. Psychologists who do
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: evaluate are basically trained to look for problems, so they
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: can pathologize.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: People if you can't. And she's like, if you can't tell,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: those are not my favorite.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: And she also says she was forced into hospital treatment,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: which is not therapy at all. It's a place for
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: crisis stabilitation. Stabilitation, it's a place for crisis stabilization.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: The focus there is getting meds figured out.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: And getting someone's safety if they are danger to themselves,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: and for drug abuse, remove easy access to drugs. So basically,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: this to me confirms that her family abused the system.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: The system because they are made claims, and then it's
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: not true therapy, so she's never truly like throughout her conservatorship.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Of course she's not going to trust the system. And
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: it's a reminder to me that we conflate rehab and
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: what true therapy is like what they do in rehab
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: and what they do and what we get when we
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: go to one on one therapist.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: Of our own record. This is a sadvert. I want
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: to be pretty a hug. I don't know how to
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: wrap this up.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: The book was heavy, but it was a ten out
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: of ten ten out of ten recommend to everyone, especially
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: for those who.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: Through it, or maybe I mean if you're not past
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: the like I've gone through. I've gotten a lot of.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Help with my anger and frustration about family Court and
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: the experience I went through.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: Had I not done the work, I think this would
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: have been even harder to read. Yeah. I have dedicated
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: my life to fighting misogyny and being aware that it exists.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: It was still hard for me to be like Ah,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: just at any moment, a man with enough money or
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: just enough wherewith all of how everything could work. Yeah,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: man could steal my money and still fuck me over.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Could just strip away my credibility, take my kids, take
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: my cat, take my money, take my house, lock me
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: in the bedroom, and the rest of the world will
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: just like, well, clearly that's justified. A very well known
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: white man did it, and they don't even have to
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: have a good reputation because everyone knew that Jamie was
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: a gambling drunk who was never around. Yeah, Henry the Eighth,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: if you will, we can just cut it. I can
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: just stop the recording and then you can do it.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, because I mean, I'm like, oh, you're manifestations.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: You don't do on Patreon.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: So I was like, Okay, how do we end it?