Latest / Psyched For Sanity / Episode 20 - Cognitive Distortions: How Your Thoughts Trick You

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Episode 20 - Cognitive Distortions: How Your Thoughts Trick You · Psyched For Sanity

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to Psych for Sanity.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I am one of your hosts, Dr.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Brindle Doss.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a licensed psychologist specializing in geriatric psychology, child treatment, forensic psychology, and trauma treatment.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Dr.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Tara McKelvey Parker.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: I am also a licensed clinical psychologist.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: I specialize in assessing and treating complex trauma and attachment wounds from childhood.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm the type of person that buys way too much coffee that she never drinks.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Ever.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like at a coffee shop or like bags of coffee at home.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: At a coffee shop.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: I very regularly go buy coffee and do not drink it.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's a crime.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know because I'm getting to crime.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: It does absolutely nothing for me, but there is something like you know, in terms of like energy level.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: But it's very psychological.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a comfort.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I have this drink in my hand, I can drink it and maybe it'll help if I if I need it.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: In my hand.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it was fun this morning when you brought me my coffee.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I asked I ordered two coffees and you assumed one was for Dylan.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you were surprised to find that both full-size lattes were for me.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well so I take personal offense to you like leaving perfectly well-made coffee.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and also another thing about me is that I cannot finish any beverage really that I'm ever like given.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's hard, it's just hard to finish coffee.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to finish anything.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've I like sometimes we'll have like this mini, you know, those mini Dr.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Peppers.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I will drink half of it.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: It you know what I mean?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like You're weird, man.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't think you were that weird.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's concerning.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you can't let the glass win or something.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're not gonna have all of me.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm not gonna consume all of you.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't feel thirsty.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, but anyway, it's so weird.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, so I the other day, um, I saved this, I saved this story for you.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: You told me that you had a doozy earlier on reading.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I think I think it's fine, but I think you're gonna be concerned or confused.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I I have a child, I have two children, and one of them watches a certain TV show.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And have you ever started watching a show with your kid and it's like, man, this is a really good show, I want to watch it.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't say that I watched this show by myself yet.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: But a couple of weeks ago, I was watching My Little Pony with my family.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and it was a it was a two-part episode.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was a two-part episode.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: And for some reason, the next day when they watched part two, I wasn't home.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I needed to find out what was gonna happen to the Crystal Palette.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: You were devastated.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: So fat and I literally thought about it for like weeks until the other night.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was so I wanted to watch it so bad.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to know what happened.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're also the person that was singing the super kitties theme song to me the other day.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: I do love the super kitties theme song.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: You get really into your kids' TV show.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's not on purpose.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: It happens.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, so the other night, I had a rare night when I was alone in my house.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: My children were asleep, they'd gone to bed, they were there, but I was like alone, like my spouse was gone.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, you know what?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna make myself a nice dinner and I'm gonna watch part two and find out what happened to the crystal ponies.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Did you really?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Did you do it?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely did.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is it good?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was a really good episode.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: I felt so much satisfaction and joy and comfort.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this, this is what life is all about.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like finding moments of joy and pleasure.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you watch and you fit and you fit you figure out part two.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we both sort of had stories of comfort this morning because that's what the coffee does for me, even though I don't actually drink it if I go into my body.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's just in my hand.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um that kind of ties in a little bit, you know, into what we're talking about today.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of, we probably should get talk about what we're talking about today, maybe.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: We could keep talking about super kiddies, and I like that whole like, you know, little singing dilly stuff that hairly gets good.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just surprised it was vaguely on pitch.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: It probably wasn't.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so surprised, to be honest.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, wow, that was relatively close.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: That was pretty good.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, today we're gonna be talking a little bit about cognitive distortions because in our emotion 101 many series thus far, we've done shame.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, we've done fear, and we talk a bit about challenging thinking patterns, you know, as a way to um just manage, you know, fear and shame.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we were kind of thinking that it might be helpful to talk a little bit more about what that actually means.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: How do you challenge your thinking?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Why would you challenge your thinking?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: How does it have anything to do with your emotional experiences?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: We'd spend a little time talking about that today.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's the fancy term for like maladaptive thinking or what or less helpful thinking?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Cognitive distortions.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And basically Yeah, basically it just it is a um narrow, predictable pattern of thinking that usually exaggerates threat, negativity, or certainty.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just these kinds of thinking patterns can contribute to mental health problems like anxiety or depression, but just exacerbate certain negative feelings like fear or shame.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, and it kind of they lead to uh uh inaccurate interpretations about people and situations, and that can impact your behavior.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So your emotions and your emotions.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: So cognitive distortions is the fancy term, but it really just means like your thinking kind of gets twisted.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thinking th thinking things that aren't helpful.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not, it's not all the way, it's just not a good idea.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's not an accurate picture of reality.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's not exactly, exactly.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I always like to think about one thing about cognitive distortions, like and like why they're important.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, it's almost like a two-way street in that cognitive distortions can affect things kind of deeper, and they affect things more external.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you thought about it from this one.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like they so well, yeah.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So cognitive distortions kind of have like a chicken egg thing with like negative self-beliefs, which you kind of already alluded to.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: I see.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that element, so they like I feel like they add more fuel to that.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So what you're doing.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And they impact the on the other side of the street, the behaviors and the emotions, kind of the output.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Totally, yeah.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like this middleman that kind of fuels both things that are really, generally speaking, in unhelpful directions.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think so, yes.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you're so so basically what you're saying, and I agree, so we all have these core beliefs about ourselves.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: That we develop through childhood, right?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Our our experiences growing up.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're called, yeah, um uh schemas is another word for them.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Core beliefs.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's just ideas about ourselves, other people, and the world at large.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: What you tell yourself about yourself, other people, and you know, right, yeah.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a core belief that I am a lovable person, okay.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Great core belief, by the way.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Great, healthy, secure core belief, then many of your thoughts are going to be positive about right, seeking out comfort.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or like your lovability, like your thinking is sort of we kind of they come out of those core beliefs that we have about ourselves.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's geared more towards a positive direction from that belief.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: So if we have all these positive thoughts about our lovability, right?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: That output then kind of um bolsters that positive core belief that we have about ourselves.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's sort of this feedback loop, is what you're saying.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then also that feedback loop impacts our behavior, our emotions, and the way that we relate to people.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the positive side of it.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's the positive side of it.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: But what cognitive distortions might go with like a positive example.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bad example, but I think they're more real like what we're actually talking about is negative, right?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like negative core beliefs, right?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: So then more exaggerated negative or threat-based, right, or like rigid thinking patterns.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, right.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: The opposite could be true.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: If you think I am unlovable, uh worthwhile.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like your thinking is gonna stem from that negative core belief, and that's gonna impact your emotions, you know, sort of in a skew, yeah, emotions and behavior maybe skewed more negatively, just depending on how deeply entrenched that core belief is.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the way to kind of start, I guess, would be to figure out like what do I believe about myself or what do I think about myself.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so that can kind of be a starting place.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: It can be a starting place.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where I always encourage patients to journal.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because for me, sure, my thinking is not super loud.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's usually kind of back here.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm more action-based, more body-based is how I notice how I feel.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: My thinking's like I have to like pull it out of my brain sometimes.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: I have to write it down for it to manifest.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think what you're talking about is thinking about your thinking, which is the metacognition.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and pulling up the conscious awareness.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and journaling is a great tool for that.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great tool for that.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: So just writing down writing down thoughts and feelings is a great first step for healing from any kind of mental health issue or just sure exacerbated feeling or whatever.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: But so yeah, I mean, being able to first notice the thought, the thought is super helpful.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then be able to name the cognitive distortion.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: So there's because there's many types, right?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of different cognitive distortions.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: So um these are always really hard to remember.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Are they?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: For me, yes.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like the actual name.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: One for one that comes up a lot for my patients that I always try to lovingly and and respectfully call out is mind reading.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Mind reading.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that is where you're basically, yeah.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's where um you know, you tell yourself, well, that's how they're gonna respond, or that's how they're gonna react to me.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, you're claiming to be a fortune teller and that you without any evidence or clear indication are assuming thoughts, beliefs, or actions in other people.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Even before it happened.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm not gonna try to go over and talk to her because she's just gonna shoot me down.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you know?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we do this, I think, I think that one is actually a lot more common than people realize.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think for certain kinds of also for certain kinds of issues like social anxiety.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like massive related anxiety.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: If we have like social anxiety, we are very often assuming that we know what the other person is going to think about us.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so that creates a lot of anxiety, creates a lot of embarrassment.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then typically we like don't want to go to the thing, right?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or we stay really quiet.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Increases avoidant behavior, because why would I do the thing if it's gonna work out negatively for me?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: If we know that that person's gonna think we're an idiot, then we're not gonna like it would make a lot of sense that we're not gonna actually go talk to that, you know, anyone.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right, and then that's that's that impacts the behavior, which means you don't go do the thing that might be scary or uncomfortable.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because you assume you know the outcome, which you don't, and that kind of thinking pattern, I you know, often comes from a core belief of I am unlikable, right?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm awkward.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not worthwhile.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not worthwhile.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's a more negative core belief we have about the self than we assume other people think the same thing.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was about to say that 100%.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is definitely one, especially in social situations, to make note of.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: If it's a thing for you, write it down, right, and name it.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's mind reading.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll talk we'll talk a little bit more in a bit about specifically how you could start to go about challenging this kind of thought.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: But um another one would be black and white thinking or all and nothing thinking.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all or nothing thinking.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is one, you know, like it's just a very um narrow, kind of extreme, rigid belief where there's no gray.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: For example, my teacher always yells at me.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: My teacher always, or God, I'm like another one is if I made a mistake, then I'm a failure.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like very all or nothing, black and white.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's no grace.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's no balance.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: We don't give ourselves grace when we have this kind of thinking.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: This one's super common for anxiety.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it another way this one manifests too is when we have sort of narrow beliefs about people or ourselves.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm an idiot.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that person's a jerk.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: These are sort of narrow or I made a mistake, so I'm stupid.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Just really narrow, black and white, like there's no gray, there's no wholeness.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there's there's does that make sense?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's presence or absence.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's no in between.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a really hard extremes, is right.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really hard place to exist as a human.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: And functionally speaking, it's it's inaccurate.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's a distortion.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, it's not the full picture of reality.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and and I did want to add as we're going through this that cognitive distortions to a degree are pretty normative.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to have a disorder or a diagnosis to have these.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's really like how frequently you're using them, how rigidly you're using them, how much are they impacting your mood to the extent that you in your behavior, to the extent that you may be participating in behavior that's not healthy for you.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um what?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or that's self-limiting.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's self-limiting, or you're experiencing emotions to a degree that are flooding or out of control.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um is is what I would absolutely.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Just a caveat.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: The other the other one that I do often, this is like something, it's catastrophic thinking.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: This one is really common for us folks who tend to worry about a lot of things, like a more generalized anxiety, chronic worrier.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like kind of like something bad can happen at any time.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's kind of like hypervigilance disorder, right?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like something happens in your brain goes worst case scenario.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I, you know, start losing money or patience or whatever in my practice, I'll have no money and then end up, you know, unhoused or like I don't, you know, so it's like very extreme and it creates a lot of anxiety.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: You go from like 60 to zero in a second.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Just and it's and I I some of this guys is not super conscious.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like for me, I will experience the emotion and the bodily sensation well before I've really made sense of my thought process, which is why journaling is so helpful for some.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you know, with just sort of as a reiter reiteration about the journaling, it can just be so helpful to write down and identify these thoughts as your kind of networking.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to mention about journaling.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think the concept for a lot of people, especially people that don't feel comfortable writing um or don't like they think about it gets feels like an arduous or big task.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I try to encourage people to like be more flexible with it.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like journaling is not necessarily writing for some people that are less comfortable.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes I don't always have the time to sit down and put pen to paper.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll record an audio note to myself.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Especially if you know you're not always stationary.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, another time is with journaling, if you do are more comfortable writing and it can do that, you don't have to sit and write like a lot.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: A lot, yeah.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: It can be a word, a sentence, a phrase, yeah, a feeling.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: A good point.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I was just even visualizing and doing this exercise, just like writing the thought.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: So journaling does have a little bit of a dear diary vibe.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm glad you brought that up.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Dear diary.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: But that's a good option too.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's no shame again.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of good options.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: For a long time, I was doing free association journaling.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I would just literally like it, because this is how my thought process works, right?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's super kind of quick and jumbled, and like I need to see it for it to make sense.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: I would just like write 10 pages front and back in my journal.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to write 10 pages, but it would just like Dr.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: McKillview flow out of me and I would do it until I felt like a sure, sure, sure, sure.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: You feel like you feel like a I have different kinds of journals.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: I have like like journals are almost like lists, I think even me.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lot of things to do, even though it might not feel like journaling it.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: But if I write it down or write subnotes or things I want to remember about it, uh-huh, it's like a formal journaling for me.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a more of a bullet journal or like a more organized plan.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Folks, there's lots of ways to journal.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um back to cognitive distortion.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, hold on.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: We've got we've have um mind reading, we have catastrophic thinking, black and white thinking, emotional reasoning.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Emotional reasoning.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's another one.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, this is believing feelings equals facts.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel embarrassed, so I must have said something stupid.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I feel angry, so that person probably did that thing on purpose.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: I like to help people.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is would you like to hear how I help people challenge this?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to hear.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because this really helped challenge.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: This really helps people recognize.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: So um I'm gonna m give you a statement and I want you to tell me if it's if it's you know true.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're at your me?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well they're they can't answer me.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you were kind of looking over in Dylan's direction, so I was like, um guest participation.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, okay, so I feel like the king of France.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the king of France, and that is how I feel.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the king of France.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make me the king of France?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Are you sure?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel it.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is how I feel about myself.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's I think I use this example with my patients a lot because it's very, it's a very clear articulation that obviously I am in no way, shape, or form the king of France.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know if they have kings of France anymore.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what's going on in France.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, I haven't checked that out yet.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: I should.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: I should look at it.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: You need to know about all the royalty.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about the prices.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I think you like that.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think you like the royalty.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Perfectionistic.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: What is that thinking?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's black and white.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Probably, yes.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a big one for me.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I must know all the places now that you've brought up the royalty.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, but it's clear when I give you that example, uh-huh, much like it is for most of my patients, that I can feel that way, but that doesn't make it so, and it doesn't make it reality.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Another example I try to give folks, and I don't have a physical example, but I in one of my offices I have a painting of the um like a watercolor kind of painting, and it's blue, and there's clearly a part of the picture is the sky, blue, and a part of the picture is the ocean, and that's all that's in it.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's it's clear from when you look at this picture, that's what it is.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I point out to people that they are distinctly separate.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: You can distinctly tell which is the sky, uh-huh, and you can distinctly tell which is the ocean.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I say, You can pick either one, but one of these is your thoughts and one reality, and one of these is your feelings.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they are not the same.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thoughts and feelings.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you kind of highlight just because you feel something, it doesn't make it the full picture intent of reality.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's part of it and an important part, but it's not all of it.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it sounds like this one comes up quite.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: You have some good examples for this one.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: It does come up a lot.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, there's like a couple, a few more I can think of personalization.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's assuming an an event is about you.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: You used to do this a lot.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Did you?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean me, yeah, me, me too.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: This two have probably pretty common.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just like, oh, they didn't text me back, so they probably don't like me.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's one that's like an example that's a good thing.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I used to, this is many, well, I I don't I don't do this anymore because I've been able to balance this thinking.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I used to think when someone would cut me off on the road, you know what I mean?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we are in Texas, we have to do a lot of driving in Texas, in the part of Texas we're in.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to think, oh, they're they're trying to like be a jerk on purpose, or they're trying to be mean on purpose.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they cut me off, so therefore they're they're a you know, a jerk.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, what helped me balance that was like, man, I was used to, I don't know.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why they cut me off.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'll never, functionally speaking, it's very low statistical probability they'll ever find out why they chose to do that.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, but let's think about other options.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're late for a job interview, maybe they just found out their mother died.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they just found out their spouse is in labor.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: What I said earlier, maybe they're giving labor right now.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe they're having a baby while driving and Brendel is.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I always gotta raise the stakes.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm sure that's happened before, but like, anyways.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: So there are lots of other reasons why this driver may be cutting her off is the idea.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, with these cognitive distortions, um, you know, what can help um is write writing down or in some way identifying, right, verbally or to a person, a a loved one, um that you are your thought and what the cognitive distortion could be.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: So name it.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we've c we've gone over quite a few today.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Have we listed all of them that you like that?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: The only other one I can think of is over-generalization.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because I do this one kind of often.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's just sort of us um like taking one event and and coming to like a broader.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because some of these might overlap.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these do overlap, you can be using more than one cognitive distortion per thought.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it doesn't have to be just one.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: But the over the one I do often is like, oh, I like yelled at my kid, or oh, I didn't do that thing with my kid.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so that means I'm, you know, a bad mom.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Something like that.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: One decision is speaks for all the decisions.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: One little thing, mistake or you know, thing that I didn't really love about my parenting that day means I'm just a bad mom.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Which is like that overgeneralization.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: So the thing we want to do after we actually had to do it.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: We want to start challenging these.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: So once you know what your thinking is and what kind of distortion or distortions you are working with, then you can start to challenge your thinking.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: So like you were were talking about earlier with the the driving incident.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we want to stop and ask ourselves like, what is the evidence for this?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: What's the evidence do I have?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: What else could what else could it could it be?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: We want to be curious.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Curious about the thinking and not just accept it as truth.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Or fact.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because so often, especially if we're not like really like taking note of our thinking, it just feels true.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: It just feels true.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to start like having some curiosity about the without judgment.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Without judgment about the accuracy of this thought.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: So like the example about my kid, like, you know, be in being a bad mom because I did one thing.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, actually, I'm a pretty good mom.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think about what is the evidence, right?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of go through like, you know, my days, you know, the day or two before, and or even earlier in that day, and like all the really wonderful connected moments I had with my kid.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I try to think about the repair, if there was like repair, and I'm just like, you know what?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: I am like a good mom and I make mistakes.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I struggle.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm human.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just really like having curiosity and also like balance and breadth to your thinking.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Anything that feels really narrow and just rigid and focused, right?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And like negative and fear-based, it's probably not accurate.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right, not the full picture.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, we want to kind of start talking about it.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Widening, widen that thinking and figure out how can we, what evidence do I have for and what do I have against?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what I also will tell people, because remember at the beginning of this conversation, these cognitive distortions or negative thinking patterns, they directly fuel on and reinforce potentially negative beliefs we have about ourselves.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I always go back to people like that struggle with this that come back to me like, well, no, I'm pretty sure this is da-da-da-da.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: If that is true, let's say if the guy that cut me off was trying to be a jerk on purpose, does it help me to think that?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Does it really help me and my feel how I feel about the situation, myself?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Does it help my behavior?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, is it helpful?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is this helpful right now?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is it helpful?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is it helpful to operate from this, even if it's true, which we know it's not?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's hard for people to balance them cognitively, it always I have not had a person come back to me yet to say, no, no, it does help me to think this.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because most of the time it keeps you in a negative mood state, increases anxiety, depression.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And other times we choose behaviors that are less helpful for our goals in life, such as, you know, where maybe, maybe I race up behind the guy when I'm thinking that he's trying to be a jerk on purpose.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I engage in unsafe driving.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, right.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that would be then I can maybe get a ticket.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe my emotions are elevated because I'm feeling angry and mad, and that's not a fun experience.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's all stemming from a thinking pattern that's not helpful.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: So even if the guy is trying to be a jerk on purpose, it doesn't help me to think or believe that.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a good that's a really great point.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that yeah, some of these thinking, you know, I was we had a I had a a request like some days ago from a listener about um, you know, easy, simple, like beginner-friendly ways of healing from trauma.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, these negative core beliefs are really common for people with trauma.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, really challenging this thinking is one of the main ways of changing the core belief.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Slowly over time.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Slowly over time, because you're creating new neural pathways.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: So if you really do think I'm unlovable, you are going to feel that way.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And your thinking is going to reflect that, and you have to really challenge that line of thought.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then eventually over time, you start to believe actually I'm lovable.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is not true about me.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: That narrative is not true.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think all of that is is really important for trauma.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think one thing that you mentioned to me when we were talking about cognitive distortions is if a friend was sitting with you, uh, maybe at, you know, at some kind of social gathering, coffee shop, what have you, and you and they were saying these things to you, what would you tell your your friend?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: How would you help your friend?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, no, that's not true.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're not, you're not a piece of, you know, you're not a piece of whatever XYZ, you're not, that's not accurate.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: You would, you would, you can see in other people those cognitive distortions.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes it's easier with our clients and our patients to say, okay, what would you tell your daughter or your son?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Or what yeah.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So this is kind of taking it out of yourself.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Another really nice way to challenge those cognitive distortions is to think about what you would tell a loved one, a kid, like a friend.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: That can be helpful because we have way more compassion with our yeah, with others, it's way easier to be kinder to others than it can be to be kind and have self-compassion.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Self-compassion, yeah, can be hard.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that one.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I that one works, that one works pretty pretty often.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to say though, you know, this does take practice.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: It takes practice and time to do.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's it's useful to just get started and give it a try and kind of see.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just honestly, half the battle is recognizing your thought in the cognitive distortion, right?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because then you're creating some space between you and the thought.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: This thought is a is a pattern, it's not necessarily reality.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is a distortion because I feel scared, because you know, our thinking impacts our emotions, but how we feel also impacts our thinking.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's sort of all in a loop together, really.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, you know, I think that's half the bottle.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: So even this challenging piece is important.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: It takes time.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Changing the patterns takes time.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: But it's, I think, really, I think it's really worth it and helpful.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I uh the last thing I want to make sure, like I had a a great one of my best friends and a fellow therapist tell me a long time ago when I contacted her about just distressing thoughts I was having.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: She said, you know, a thought is just a thought.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: It is, you know, assembly a neural connection between, you know, one to two neurons, if not more, and we give it valence or we give it power.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: We decide if it's important and it's okay, even if the thought is scary or distressing or overwhelming, to just let it be just a thought and not give it more importance if it feels uncomfortable.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that can also be another kind of tactic or technique to sort of trick the intensity of these thinking patterns.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just noticing the thought and that the distortion can help kind of create that distance, like you're saying.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is this is just a thought.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Don't believe everything your brain tells you.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: What are you what are you taking away from today?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: What are you finding important after our conversation?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, it's funny for I'm I'm a sort of a psychoanalytic relational therapist in general.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: So for a long time, um, I really didn't give, I think, enough attention to this area of psychology, you know, because I was really more into the relational emotional realm.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the more and more I do this for myself, and the more and more that I find how useful and helpful and necessary it is for like trauma treatment and things like that, I just think I'm just like yeah, sort of grateful for this, you know, kind of peace and area of psychology.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I don't know, I think it's useful and it's been really helpful for me and my patients.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um absolutely.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, I and I'm taking away just you know, appreciation for like finding that balanced experience that comes after.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can challenge these.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I have challenging your thinking.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: So many patients when like towards an end of session, I kind of ask them the same thing.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: I usually ask you, like, hey, what do you feel like is important to you about the conversation we had today?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: They can say, you know, I just feel a little better knowing X, Y, Z, knowing I don't have to believe everything I'm thinking, or knowing that there might be another option to reduce my experience of distress.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that I feel like is the greatest gift.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully, one of the purposes of therapy.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Leave us a comment, you know, let us know what you think about not only today's episode, but um our emotion one mini-series and the podcast in general.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you have other requests that we cover other emotions or experiences related, we'd love to hear from you.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is intended for informational and educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for therapy, diagnosis, or any kind of professional mental treatment.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: We hope that we can share with you our experience authentically and genuinely, and we hope that occasionally we'll make you laugh.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you can relate to our quest and how we're psyched for sanity.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: The content we share is um our personal opinions and insights.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: They are not clinical insights to anyone, and they don't represent or reflect any entity that we worked in or have worked for in the past.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: But if listening to this podcast has made you think, we'd really encourage you to speak out a mental health professional in your area.