Latest / All The Right Movies / Jaws (1975) | Ep. 44 - Part 1

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Jaws (1975) | Ep. 44 - Part 1 · All The Right Movies

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There is a creature alive today who has survived millions of
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years of evolution without change, without passion and
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without logic. It lives to kill a mindless
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eating machine. It will attack and devour
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anything. It is as if God created the
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devil and gave him jaws. Jaws was released in the summer
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of 1975 and changed Hollywood forever.
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The story of tourist town Amity Island and it's becoming prey to
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a great white shark. The film was the highest
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grossing of all time and launched the career of its young
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director, Steven Spielberg. My name is John and the half
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fast astronaut with me. Oh, Westy.
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Don't tell me, Don't tell me, Mother.
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Luke, That's some bad hat, Harry.
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And Matt, Oh boys, I think he's come back for his noon feeding.
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It's 1975, we have a panic on our hands on the 4th of July and
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all the right movies covering Jaws.
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It's like bringing the dinner bell, for Christ's sakes.
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Hello and welcome to all the right movies.
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It's not a bored accident. It's not any propeller, not any
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coral reef, and it isn't Jack the Ripper.
1:46
It's a podcast on classic and hit films.
1:48
It's. The 25 foot of this one.
1:51
Well, yeah, this episode, they don't come much bigger, do they?
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No. Not at all.
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As our 100th ATRM classic episode, the whole gang out here
2:00
as we go back to where it all began by recovering the film.
2:03
That was a topic of our very first episode.
2:06
Yeah. So we're talking Spielberg, epic
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speeches, Spanish ladies and more as we tell the story behind
2:12
the first blockbuster of them all.
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What else but yours? Yeah.
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Oh, massive. Before we head down to the beach
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though, Luke, I think you have a word or two to say about
2:22
becoming an ATRM patron. Yes, I do.
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Familiar territory again for us talking about Patreon, but there
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become an ATRM Patron. As this is episode 100.
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As John, you've just said, there are naturally 80 episodes
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available in our Patreon Podcast archive.
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Also available are 61 podcasts that we've produced exclusively
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for Patreon, and that number increases every month with a
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brand new episode of our current exclusive podcast Double
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Feature. Nice, I'm glad you're doing this
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because I still would have got that wrong even like even
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numbers. Yeah, I just said there was 99
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available. Yeah, I know.
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Yeah. And on top of that as well, you
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So there's a lot on offer and we're not asking for much in
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Whatever you can do guys is massively appreciate it.
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Thank you so much for everyone who signed up and everyone who
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So thank you very much. Yes, please.
3:44
Thank you guys. So if you need a bigger movie,
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podcast no further. Too right?
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Back to the here and now though. It's the big 100.
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It's Jaws it is. So why have we gone for this
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one, Westie? Oh, me first.
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Amazing. It's the inventor of the
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blockbuster, as you said, at the top.
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It's an absolute classic in every sense.
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I think it just gets better the more I watch it.
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It's just showcasing this, the true talent of a really hungry
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young filmmaker. In Spielberg, you can see all of
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these traits in this. He carries us through his whole
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career. It's so cleverly done.
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The technical elements are just so perfect.
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He just hits the ground running with this.
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And there was a lot behind it. There was a lot of trouble
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making it. But that is kind of in the film
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and we'll talk about all of these things, but to me it's
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just a really exciting film where I was scared to go in the
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bath for six months. I would would go swimming every
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week and there was a separate diving pool and I refused to go
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in. So I thought as soon as I jump
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off the diving board, I'm just going to land in the shark.
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It's just going to come out of the.
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Water and I'm going. To land in its mouth and it's a
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film that's an obsession for some people, you know, it's one
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that lives with them. It's a very comforting film for
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people. It's one that they grew up with.
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It's just, I think, a very, very important film and a milestone
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in cinema history. So obviously we've got to talk
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about it. Yeah, I mean, I think the four
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of us are going to be talking about Jaws until the day we die.
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Very. Possibly.
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And that's fine with me, to be honest.
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Yeah. I mean, I've loved Jaws for as
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long as I can remember. I likely will.
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Until that sweet release of Death, just objectively the
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highest grossing film in history at the time.
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The first summer blockbuster transformed the film making
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business model, the movie that made the career of maybe
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Hollywood's most important ever figure.
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Still one of the most popular movies out there and one of the
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great behind the scenes making of stories.
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So yeah, it's tailor made for us and we'll be talking about all
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that stuff. Yeah, it's the blueprint.
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Yeah, it's massive, it's fascinating, and we always have
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a hoot talking about yours. So yeah, here we go again.
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And Matt, yours for you. Well, it's just absolutely
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timeless, isn't this? People pass it down to us.
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People of our age have passed it down to the next generation.
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I remember really vividly putting this on for my son when
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he was about it. And I thought, oh, I don't know
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if I've done the right thing. I don't know if he'll enjoy this
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because he was so into superhero films and Cardioons and Star
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Wars. Yeah, I'm right there right now,
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to be honest, and I'm really worried.
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Well, he's the thing if you think they're going to get
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fidgety. My son didn't.
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He was just completely enraptured by it from that shock
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and beginning right through the end.
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And I think that tells you everything you need to know
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about how much it still works and how much it will always
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work. Yeah.
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And Luke, how about yourself and yours?
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Yeah, I think this film is taken on kind of like an almost
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mythical quality in my mind because the number of different
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interactions that we've had over the last five years of doing
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this podcast. The film that gets referenced
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way more than any others is Jaws.
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For interviews that we've done, to polls, to comments from
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people on X and our patrons. It's universally beloved.
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And I would put money on a common top in a universal poll
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of the greatest movie ever. Universal Pictures, Paul, do you
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mean there probably come top of that.
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I think just from a personal point of view as well, I just
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can't remember a time when I wasn't aware of Jaws in one way
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or another, and I can't think of any other film or befitting of
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us commemorating our 180 RM episodes.
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Nice. So George was produced by the
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Zanuck Brown Company and Universal Pictures distributed
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by Universal and released on June the 20th, 1975.
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Filmed on location at Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts.
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The film was directed by Steven Spielberg, written by Peter
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Benchley and Carl Gottlieb, based on Benchley's novel of the
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same name, and it stars Roy Schneider as Chief Martin Brody,
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Richard Dreyfuss as Matt Hooper and Robert Shaw as Quint.
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Let's get ourselves to harmony then, should we?
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Let's do it. Let's do it.
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Let's do it. We're talking the head, the
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tail, the whole damn thing, but we're starting with the
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beginning of chores. Let's go swimming.
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Jaws and the Great White don't hang about, and the first act of
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the film is full of shark attacks off Amity Island.
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We're going to be talking about the death of Alex Kinder and
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Charlie the fisherman swimming for his life, but we're starting
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with the opening scene. We are.
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We are. So a student beach party in the
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early hours is where we begin. A group of teenagers are
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smoking, smooching and singing on the show, and the boy and
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girl decided to go skinny dipping.
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Chrissy Watkins strips off, enters the water and after she's
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targeted by a killer shark, doesn't make it back out.
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One of the most famous openings to a film out there, Matt.
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Yep. Does it deserve the status it
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has? I think so, absolutely.
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And what strikes me when I come back to it is how much Chrissy's
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death contrast to every of the death in the film.
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Every other person that gets killed by the shark, it's one or
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two chomps and then the eaten. Chumps.
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Chumps. Yeah.
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Like the chocolate bar? Oh, lovely reference, do you?
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Remember when they were 10 pence?
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Those of it is. You think get Highland Toffee in
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there, Matt, That's the all time win.
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Oh, devastated. The shark would still be there
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if she was a Highland toffee. Just.
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Chomping. But this death, this is really
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sadistic. She's getting dragged about,
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getting pulled from one end to the other.
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When she thinks it's stopped, it comes back from all.
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Now, I've got no idea how realistic that is over Shark's
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eating habits. I suspect maybe not, but it has
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to be this savage for it to scare the crap out of the
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audience. This is how lethal this creature
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is. So for a death scene where it's
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all in the performance, it's all in the sound design, the music,
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the panic breathe and she does when the first tugs a leg, it's
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incredibly brutal. It certainly is that.
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Yeah. I mean, to me, this is one
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that's more intriguing than it is terrifying.
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I was never really scared by this.
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I was more like what is happening?
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Young Wesley intrigued by what's going on here?
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Intrigued. How do you do this?
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This is fantastic. But it does pale in comparison
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the other death sequences, which are so kind of in your face and
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so obvious about what's going on.
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This is very Hitchcockian, and it just leaves it up the
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imagination. And that's makes it a little bit
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more terrifying. It's beautifully shot by Bill
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Butler. That just looks absolutely
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wonderful. And when they're running across
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and you've got them, you know, the fences and the dunes, I'm
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like, that looks like shield. That looks like where I'm from.
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Oh my God, I'm never going to say ever again.
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This is too much. It's just, it's really, really,
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really well done. And again, an astonishing way to
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open the film. And if anyone knows how to do an
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opening sequence, it's Steven Spielberg.
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Well. That's true enough.
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He invented it, I think didn't. He.
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He did the film before the film 6 acts.
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I've gone over this before. I was waiting for that bit,
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Westie. Filming 6 acts Here we go.
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You just have to side with the period.
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If you want to hear that crack, I'm not doing it.
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Again, Yeah. I mean, for a scene that's only
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a few minutes long and which has next to no dialogue and we don't
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even see everything that's going on, it's crazy how much there is
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to talk about. It's tense.
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It's terrifying. It's really inventive.
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And maybe the thing I notice most now when I watch this scene
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is how well shot it is. Like you said, Westie.
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Stunning. Yeah, every frame, certainly all
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the ones of Chrissy in the water are like perfection.
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The shot of her in silhouette as she runs and dives into the
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water during the water shot looking up at her like kicking
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legs, not wide shot when she has a leg in the air and then
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disappears like a synchronized swimmer.
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And then the close-ups on Chrissy faces, the shark attacks
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and pulls are under all incredible images.
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And then combine those visuals, that John Williams music, and
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it's just Hollywood history. And then how the carnage ends
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with total silence, just that boy ringing and that white short
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horizon transition to the next day.
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That's so good. Oh, yeah.
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And beautiful savior from the Brody's house.
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How much are these police she's getting paid done?
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Unbelievable. Yeah.
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It is stunning filmmaking for me right from the very first scene.
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Well, in the original script, the shark was described as
11:46
emerging from the water when it attacked Chrissy.
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So we were supposed to see it in all its glory.
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Yeah, but during production, it's very well known there were
11:53
problems with the mechanical shark breaking down again and
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again. And Spielberg said I had no
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choice but to figure out how to tell the story without the
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shark. Yeah, Spielberg said that he
12:02
went from making a William Castle movie to an Alfred
12:05
Hitchcock movie, and we'll talk more about the mechanical shock
12:09
later. But to take a massive problem,
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which is a massive problem like that, and somehow improve the
12:14
scene, it's crazy. Because it's surely better that
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we don't see the shark here. Isn't it 100% Lord?
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That's the mother of invention. Yeah.
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Exactly. Yeah.
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And Chrissy Watkins, she's played by Susan Bucklin, who
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wasn't an actress at the time. She was actually a stunt woman
12:28
who'd appeared in The Tower and Inferno and a custom call went
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out for someone who was willing to pee and you'd and was a
12:33
strong swear. The grid on Luke's face there
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when you said it to you'd. Yeah.
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Yes, he does. So she sent in some pics of
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herself, and one of the producers, Richard D Zanuk, who
12:46
was suitably impressed by them, took the pics of Spielberg, who
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looked at them and said, yeah, but can she act?
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Did she do the dive out the window in the tower and inferno?
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I would imagine that's it. Must be that bit, yeah.
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Great death, that. Yeah, Yeah, she wasn't.
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You did not. Probably bit too hot that's.
13:02
Probably why I haven't seen it, yeah.
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Not far off. But I think she's good for what
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she has to do. Susan.
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But Lenny, yeah, Apparently when she met Spielberg, she said if
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you hire me and get close-ups because I'm a model as well, if
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you use an actress, they'll have to cover their face, which I
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mean, Hollywood actresses, Yeah, they're knowing for being
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hideous all the. Yeah, exactly.
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Yeah. So praise, No praise to film the
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shots where Chrissy is being dragged through the water by the
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shark. But Lenny wore a pair of cut off
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jeans that had metal plates stitched into them.
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Cables were attached to each plate.
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And get this, there were 10 crew members pulling our back and
13:35
forth and the screams and goggling sounds were rerecorded
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with Spielberg and Post. But that must have been fucking
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terrified. 10 guys. Terrific.
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Yeah, when? Why the 10 showed up to do that?
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We only need five. Yeah, yeah.
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Everyone in both has Vineyard turned up but it looks awesome
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which is being dragged through the water.
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Yeah, it's great. And Spielberg wasn't happy with
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how the screaming sounded live. So we got Susan Bucklin, he back
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in and like poured water down her throat.
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She screamed, which sounds pleasant.
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Water borders. Basically, yeah.
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It matches though, doesn't it? Yeah, perfect.
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Yeah, and she has a cameo in the Spielberg film, too.
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Susan Bellini. OK.
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Do you know which one? No.
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Has it a guess now? She's in 1941.
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Right, OK, that explains why I don't know.
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Because they do the jaw scene again, don't there.
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But it's a submarine. They do.
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She plays a skinny dipper, right?
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So after the opening, we're introduced to Chief Brody.
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And the scene that I love with him in his introduction is the
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one on the ferry. Oh, yeah.
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With the mayor. Mayor Vaughan.
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Yeah. I mean, this is just an ambush.
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Vaughan and his cronies putting the squeeze on Brody, backing
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him into a corner. Out of context, if you freeze
14:45
that scene, it looks like it could be something from a
14:47
gangster film, which you know, of course there were elements of
14:50
it in the novel. Get Carter.
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Yeah, a little bit. I think it's got some wonderful
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dialogue. Vaughan says that if people
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can't swim here, they'll gladly go to Cape Cod or Long Island.
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And Brody replies, doesn't mean you have to serve up some kind
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of smokers board greatly. Yeah.
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Now the mayor's clearly put the squeeze on the coroner who will
15:09
be standing by his boat and accident theory.
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And you know, it's sneaky in under hand, but I think you can
15:14
understand it from the mayor's point of view.
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They make it known that the shark out in those waters,
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there's going to have to be severe repercussions for the
15:21
town, not only this summer. The ripple effect will be felt
15:24
for years to come. And this scene sets up what's at
15:27
stake in this story for everybody involved.
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I think it's a great little scene.
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Yeah, it shows his fear of the water as well, to take some ages
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to realize there's actually car behind him and people getting
15:35
out of it. Yeah, yeah, just.
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Surprised. There's one of these himself
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feels as well. Best.
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He must be having a panic attack.
15:43
Honestly, God, don't get us started.
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I mean, it's not quite as exciting as what we just thought
15:47
about, but this is still impressive as a scene to me.
15:50
Yeah. Such a great setting for a
15:51
dialogue scene because the camera static, but with the very
15:54
moving, the backgrounds, like, swirling around the characters
15:56
as they talk. Yeah.
15:58
Spielberg's like a magician. He pulls like interesting
16:00
visuals out of thin air. Yeah, it's great.
16:02
And our first sight of May Vaughn, played by Marie
16:04
Hamilton. He's gone.
16:06
Lots of great lines. Like fellas, this is not the
16:08
time with a place to perform some kind of a hair fast autopsy
16:11
on a fish. Flawless.
16:14
I was in the film. Yeah, I think Hamilton does a
16:17
great job. And you're not hating the mayor
16:20
even though he's effectively a murderer.
16:22
Yeah. And he doesn't hit the fall for
16:24
any of it, even though he's got blood all over his hands.
16:27
And I think that's down to a few things.
16:29
But for me, like you said, John, his dialogue in this scene, you
16:32
yell Barracuda and everybody says, huh, what?
16:34
Great. Yell shark.
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We've got panic on our hands on the 4th of July.
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Iconic and such. Great delivery.
16:40
I'm Brody as well. Yeah, yeah.
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Come here. And you kind of beat his
16:45
wardrobe. He's got some killer sports
16:48
jackets. Yeah, that one with the anchors
16:50
in this scene is outrageous, but he pulls it off.
16:54
He really? Does pull it off?
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He does. Loads of tab on as well.
16:57
Loves the tab. Yeah, loves the cigarettes in
16:59
the hospital. In the hospital.
17:02
He'd also been in And Not Me of a Murder with James Stewart.
17:04
Marie Hamilton. Yep.
17:05
Which Spielberg apparently casted because he liked him in
17:07
The Graduate, where he played Mr. Robinson.
17:10
Yes, that's. Right.
17:11
The lesser known member of the Robinson couple.
17:14
Yes, he didn't get a song, did he?
17:17
No, and still the mayor in Jaws too.
17:21
What? Yeah, who voted it back in?
17:23
Yeah. Unbelievable.
17:24
That's not going down that route, John.
17:26
Same jacket in yours too as well, yeah?
17:28
Well, that's good. That's not going back in.
17:31
Yeah, yeah. And talking of this scene, one
17:33
of the writers is in the ferry scene to call Gottlieb.
17:36
He plays the mayor's right hand man and he's sudden to the
17:39
right. And the three shot with Brody in
17:40
the man. Nice.
17:42
That's right. The big fella.
17:43
Yeah. The big guy with the big touch.
17:45
Yeah. Medals.
17:46
The character's called. Brilliant.
17:47
You think? Quite a few scenes called
17:48
Gottlieb, isn't he? He is, yeah.
17:51
And he spent the next half a century dining right out on
17:54
Jaws. He did.
17:56
Who wouldn't? Yeah, yeah, I know.
17:58
I. Don't blame it, I don't have one
17:59
of those big news boy like sandwich ball things saying I
18:02
rode yours on it. Die hard with a vengeance.
18:06
So that's our opening, a riveting and brutal action
18:09
sequence and one of the biggest to come out of Hollywood.
18:12
And huge. Yeah.
18:14
Definitely. As far as I know, yeah.
18:18
With the mayor refusing to raise the alarm, the beaches stay
18:20
open. And on a busy summer's day, the
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shark strikes again. 10 year old Alex Kitner is killed and we
18:26
then meet shark killer Quint offering his services and a
18:29
couple of fishermen trying to cash in on the $3000 award for
18:32
catching the shark. Yeah, I'll have to get your
18:35
teeth in two there, Westie. Yeah.
18:37
I was after a leg. Alex, I think it's wonderful.
18:41
So good, I'm just not even going to acknowledge it.
18:42
That's how good it wasn't. But I mean, Alex Kitner death, I
18:45
mean, irresponsible, for a start.
18:47
This is what happens when you have a child in your 70s.
18:52
Mick Jagger. Yeah.
18:55
You listening, Jagger? Yeah, you listen, De Niro.
18:57
This is what's going to happen. But I mean, it's it's pure
19:00
cinema, isn't I mean the use of technique here is just second
19:03
and on there is these transitions, people moving past
19:06
the camera. It's like tick tock in 1975, all
19:09
these transitions coming past. It cuts to a new scene.
19:11
You say broadly just not listening to people.
19:14
You've got that amazing sound design coming in and he's just
19:16
looking and he's so confused and you've got all of these moments
19:19
that could be shark attacks that aren't shark attacks.
19:21
Fucking hell. Like how intricate does this
19:23
need to be? And it just builds tension and
19:25
you don't even know he's building the tension up.
19:27
And then you get that Dolly zoom.
19:29
You get all of these kind of moments where I think in this
19:32
sequence is more than any average director would use in a
19:35
whole film. And it's not overused either.
19:38
It's absolutely necessary. And it really, really works.
19:41
And it's really, really shotgun. And I think the whole moment is
19:45
great, but the actual death, the shot kind of rolls over.
19:47
Yeah, you know, it's real. And then there's just that spray
19:50
of blood, and you're like, oh, Jesus Christ.
19:53
And it's just so, so shotgun. And her reaction when Alex
19:56
doesn't come out the water is heartbreaking.
19:58
But it always reminds when you see that it is that inflatable.
20:01
Was on and it's just washing up on the beach.
20:03
I'm like, oh fucking hell. I was like, he did that again
20:05
And Save Private Ryan Saints, that's the Omaha Beach.
20:08
What the same lilo made it all the way across there?
20:10
Yeah. That's how the landed in
20:12
Normandy. Do not know the history.
20:16
It's absolutely fantastic sequence and just one that if
20:19
you watch that, if you want to make a film, just watch that.
20:21
There's so many ideas in this sequence technically that are
20:25
just perfectly executed. It's wonderful.
20:28
It absolutely is. It is, and Brody is a nervous
20:31
wreck in this sequence. Isn't.
20:33
He he's all over the place. Totally in the wrong gear, like
20:36
Chino shorts. He's not going to get in the
20:37
water. It's.
20:38
Not going to have it. But whereas Chrissy's death
20:40
scene was very intimate with lots of close-ups, and she's
20:43
naked, yeah, Alex's is much more distant.
20:45
We see the attack from like 100 feet away on the beach in that
20:48
white tree talking about where the shark rolls over.
20:50
That's a great shot as well. That's terrifying.
20:53
Terrifying. But what doesn't change is the
20:55
level of filmmaking is still ridiculously high.
20:58
If anything, it goes up. Yeah, that tracking shot you're
21:00
talking about, Wesley, The zones in an Alex on the beach like a
21:02
sniper. Awesome.
21:04
Yeah, those white Bennetts as people pass the camera and
21:06
Spielberg like punches in on Brody.
21:08
Yeah. Pippet the dog goes missing.
21:10
I mean, you know what Director means business when he threatens
21:12
a dog? Always.
21:13
Yeah, yeah. And then obviously the most
21:16
famous shot in the film is the Dolly zoom.
21:18
It's right up there among the best sequences.
21:19
Spielberg have a film For me, I'm like in all the whole thing.
21:22
Every time I see it, it's like a short film, like a Spielberg
21:25
show, real going, look how good I am.
21:28
I don't even think he's saying that.
21:29
I think he's just going. I'm going to throw everything at
21:31
this, 'cause I'm nervous as fuck.
21:32
Yeah, he's just going. I've seen this work before.
21:34
I'm going to put this in because I know it works.
21:36
Yeah, but there's everything works and it shouldn't.
21:39
Well, yeah, exactly. It does all work for how much is
21:41
in there. It never takes you out the film
21:43
or the story for a second. Never, never.
21:46
Yeah, I mean, so much going on in this scene, and we all love
21:50
those white transitions when people cross Brody's field of
21:53
view and they come closer to his anguished face, then to the
21:55
woman in the water, then back to him.
21:57
Put you right on that beach with him.
22:00
There's a pretty amazing split diopter shot when the guy comes
22:03
over talking about the cats parking outside his house and
22:06
also in focus of that couple frolicking in the water.
22:09
Harry just throwing shade all over Brody being an absolute
22:13
Dick. Saggy.
22:15
Tits as well, horrible. Them saggy boobs Horrific.
22:19
Yeah. Horrible.
22:19
Yeah, he's got more to worry about than a swimming cap, let's
22:22
be honest. And obviously that iconic Dolly
22:25
zoom shot, it's exhilarating. It is pure cinema.
22:30
And the attack itself, I think it taps into the intensity and
22:32
brutality of that opening scene. I don't think Spielberg got as
22:37
intense as this until the 90s. No.
22:40
Yeah. And we know that nobody is safe
22:41
because Alex is just a little boy and that blood geyser
22:45
wouldn't be out of place in a real horror movie.
22:47
It's like Elm Street read the graphic stuff.
22:50
Should turn it upside down. Yeah, yeah.
22:52
The shark turns upside down. I think that's what it all.
22:54
Comes. Yeah, that Dolly zoom we're
22:56
talking about, that's achieved where the camera operator moves
22:59
the camera in One Direction and zooms in the other at the same
23:02
speed. And they are pretty common
23:04
nowadays, but not when Jaws was made and Spielberg got it from
23:07
Alfred Hitchcock who's second unit DP ERMAN Roberts used them
23:11
a few times in vertical. Amazing.
23:13
Yeah. It's now just as commonly known
23:15
as the Jaw Shop, I think, isn't it?
23:16
Yeah. I think so, yeah.
23:18
Is it better than vertical? Is it better used in this than
23:20
vertical? For me it is.
23:22
I think it's a pretty inspired choice to use it the way
23:24
Spielberg does, because usually the cinematography in this and
23:27
the camera moves are like, not subtle, but they're not jarring
23:30
either. And this is jarring.
23:32
It just punches you in the face. Yeah, it's in Lehane and it's
23:35
very sort. It's in Goodfellas and it's very
23:37
subtle. It's never been used like to
23:39
this degree for an impact really.
23:41
As an impact moment, it's brilliant, yeah.
23:43
Well, this sequence was supposed to be more graphic than what we
23:45
see in the actual finished film. There are some behind the scenes
23:48
photos of Geoffrey Voorhees who played Alex, that's sure.
23:51
The shark coming up out of the water alongside him and biting
23:54
down on him. Jumping.
23:55
I think it's the right term. Chomping yeah yeah yeah yeah.
23:58
Highland Toffee Spielberg turned it down to avoid being penalized
24:01
by the MPA. Yeah, those images are great as
24:04
well, if you've seen them. Yeah.
24:05
Yeah, they are horrific. Yeah, the some of the dummy of
24:08
Alex as well, which must have been a Monica because it's like
24:10
got a pair of boobs. There's no hurry.
24:15
But again, definitely better the way we're kind of build up to
24:18
the full reveal of the shark, I think.
24:20
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Alex's mother is played by Lee
24:23
Fiero. She trained as a theatre actress
24:25
and moved to Martha's Vineyard a year earlier, which is where
24:28
Spielberg cast her. The scene where Mrs. Kent turns
24:32
up and slaps Brody? Or was her heartbreak a lot?
24:34
Fiero kept messing it up and had to slap Roy Schneider 17 times
24:40
and on one take should knock these glasses off his head.
24:42
I always think these glasses should have come off though.
24:44
Like every time I watch it just stomped on them.
24:46
Yeah, yeah. Who's your witness that had Dad?
24:51
I don't know. It's really irresponsible.
24:52
I don't understand. And also without seeing where
24:55
she's like, my boy is dead now, Leafy Arrow.
24:58
Apparently she refused to say what was in the original script,
25:01
so Spielberg changed it for her. She didn't say what it said, but
25:04
she said that she objected to the profanity.
25:06
So I'd love to know what you call them, like a sea bomb or
25:08
something from Mrs. Kettle. Yeah.
25:10
Mrs. And then the best stick is headed and he goes.
25:18
She's wrong, Martin. Well, yeah, she is.
25:20
It's all your fault. Yeah.
25:22
Yeah. Why?
25:22
Isn't he jump in when she's talking?
25:26
Soon as she turns her back, Yeah, she is wrong.
25:29
And Fiero said that years after filming draws, she visited a
25:32
seafood restaurant in Martha's Vineyard and notice on the menu
25:35
they have something called Alex Kent and a shark sandwich.
25:38
Well, something's appetizing. It does like, doesn't it?
25:40
Loads of ketchup. Who's buying that?
25:44
So she told the waitress she played Missus Kent there, and a
25:47
few minutes after the waitress took her order, Jeffrey Voorhees
25:50
came running out of the kitchen because he owned the restaurant
25:52
and they haven't actually seen each of this since they made
25:54
Jaws. Wow.
25:56
What a lovely story. Yeah, great story.
25:58
It is a great story. She didn't pay for the meal
26:00
naturally leave for hero. No, and I know that she also got
26:02
asked to slap people in real life so many times that you
26:05
thought refusing to do it. What she actually did it though?
26:09
Like the first few times, Yeah, go on then.
26:12
Was surprised if we took a seventeen goals every time.
26:15
Couldn't be bothered. You can't do that now, can you?
26:17
Oh, the 70s? No.
26:20
After this scene, we're talking about the towns for getting
26:23
together and they're trying to tackle this issue.
26:27
And then our latest double feature show, we talked about
26:29
Denzel's intro and training day being one of the best in cinema.
26:32
And this one for Quint is 100% in that bracket.
26:35
Awesome. Because everybody's flapping
26:37
around in this scene, this push and pull between keeping the
26:40
beach open for business and safeguarding the town.
26:43
Uproar. Nobody knows what's happening,
26:44
nobody in control. Pandemonium.
26:47
And then Quint comes into the picture in the most calmly
26:50
aggressive way possible, scratching his finger down that
26:52
chalkboard. He may be devoid of the social
26:56
niceties that Brody has, but we immediately know that this is
26:59
the guy to lead us into battle. He makes his speech and then
27:03
leaves with these little mate in tour, and he's got ultimate
27:07
confidence that they'll get back in touch with him because he
27:10
knows that this isn't an isolated incident.
27:12
That chat will keep coming back and coming back for more
27:15
considering the amount of people on the beach, but he's so
27:17
relaxed about the whole thing that he's even eaten a snack
27:20
during his proposal as well. Fantastic.
27:22
Stuff just tells you everything about that character.
27:24
Do you know what I want to see in this scene?
27:26
I want to see him draw that picture because he draws that
27:29
fucking picture. Of.
27:31
Course, the blackboard's empty when they come in the room.
27:34
So he sat there and you imagine him with his tongue out just
27:36
being like, there's a picture, there's a shark, and I'm going
27:39
to put a stick man in the middle.
27:41
He could draw sharks really well, but really bad as humans.
27:43
It completely sums the character.
27:45
Like you understand sharks, but he can't draw humans.
27:48
Yes, we drew a picture on the board of Alex Kitner being eaten
27:50
by the shark. Oh, she was Alex.
27:52
Just a little guy. This is his first mate.
27:54
Maybe you did, Robinson. Just really weird.
27:59
And when the mess is the closing the beach for 24 hours for damn
28:03
good reason, a woman shouts 24 hours is like 3 weeks.
28:06
I mean, well, it's not, is it? It's not no.
28:08
It's just 24 hours a day. And why on earth would you want
28:11
to go in the sea when a shark has just eaten two people on
28:14
that same beach, desperate for a battle?
28:16
But yeah, yeah. Even a scene like this, a town
28:19
hall meeting, Spielberg just can't sit still.
28:21
He's got answers. That shot where the camera moves
28:24
through the crowd into Quinn and he starts talking.
28:26
Brilliant shot, that. Yeah, brilliant.
28:28
Yeah. Spielberg originally wanted
28:29
Quintetrol to take place in the cinema where Quint is watching
28:32
Moby Dick and laughing like a maniac at how unrealistic it is,
28:36
just like Max Katie. Massive story, I imagine.
28:40
Counselor. Counselor, but Gregory Peck, who
28:46
starred in Moby Dick, wouldn't release.
28:48
He also starred in the original original Cape Fear as well.
28:51
He wouldn't release the rights because he wasn't a fan of his
28:54
own performance in that film. Wow, OK.
28:56
Yeah, sounds like a good scene, but I wouldn't change it to be
28:58
honest. Definitely not.
29:00
No way. Have you seen the deleted scene
29:02
with Quint in the music shop where some kids like butchering
29:06
order Joy and a clarinet and Quint starts singing along
29:08
properly taking the piss off of him?
29:23
So after this, you get a scene that I really like, but it's a
29:25
scene that in a sense it doesn't really need to exist with those
29:28
two guys on the jetty because it doesn't add anything plot wise.
29:32
And I feel like almost the only reason Spielberg has it in there
29:35
is because he wants to break it up with that shot of broadly
29:38
flipping through the books about sharks, which all reflected in
29:41
his glasses. Because that shot is awesome and
29:43
it needs to be in somewhere. So it's like, I'll put it in
29:46
here and have this scene, but it's a nice bit of kind of Comic
29:49
Relief all the same because these guys are just Trump's
29:51
always remind me. It's like Norman Cliff from
29:53
Cheers have just turned up on holiday and they've decided to
29:56
get into the action, try to catch the shock.
29:58
This really stupid plan. But Even so, it still manages to
30:02
ring tension out of it and it gets the tension from nothing
30:04
more, from a huge bit of wood being dragged from one end of
30:07
the screen to the other. But how big is that mate for the
30:10
roast? It's massive, isn't it?
30:12
Looks delicious. His wife will be fumed.
30:14
He's thrown that away. Yeah, it's a Spielberg A
30:16
directed The great outdoors. It's all secret.
30:22
Yeah, Charlie and Dan Herder, the characters are called right.
30:25
They are a couple of absolute clowns.
30:27
Charlie Chalk throwing his Mrs. Ross at base for the shark is
30:30
amateur. Yeah.
30:32
Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah.
30:33
I could have maybe came out this scene because not key to the
30:36
narrative, I don't think. But I love it.
30:38
I especially love that moment when Charlie's been pulled out
30:40
to sea and he starts to swim back and then we cut to the
30:42
jetty in the water. It slowly starts to turn around
30:45
and the score like kicks in and then swim.
30:48
Charlie. Oh, this is brilliant.
30:51
And these rubbish doggy paddle for Charlie.
30:54
Come. On put your back into it but
30:57
great scene. One of my favorite scenes in the
30:59
whole film. Oh, yeah, It's great.
31:01
Yeah. Those visual cues are
31:02
incredible. I I would imagine they wouldn't
31:04
be there if Spielberg had his own way and the shark worked.
31:07
But that jet each turning around in the water just tells you
31:09
everything you need to know. It's incredible.
31:11
Yeah, it is superb. And that is the beginning of
31:14
Jaws. Huge moments, shark deaths,
31:16
major character intro with famous shots and legendary
31:19
music. Yeah, not a bad start, is it?
31:22
Poor. Really.
31:23
Not one. Of the best, yeah.
31:24
And the best is yet to come, I think.
31:29
The director. The director of George was
31:34
Steven Alan Spielberg, just 27 years old during production and
31:38
with a background mostly in television at this point.
31:40
This was Spielberg's second feature film, following crime
31:43
drama The Sugarland Express in 1974.
31:46
Yeah, sounds strange to say, but Spielberg wasn't inexperienced
31:49
film director at this time. Then, Matt?
31:51
Yeah. How was Spielberg's work?
31:52
Yeah. I mean, there's not been a film
31:56
he's made since that feels quite like this one.
31:58
And the thing that's because on here he doesn't know how good he
32:01
is yet. And because of the chaos of
32:03
production, which we'll get into, he's essentially having to
32:06
make stuff up as he goes along to fix problems that keep coming
32:09
up. The shock doesn't work.
32:12
I'm going to have to shoot around it.
32:13
Can I create tension in other ways?
32:14
And he finds that he can, and he can do it brilliantly.
32:17
There's just this sense throughout of seeing what he can
32:20
get away with, You know, as far as he says, you know, can I do
32:22
the Dolly zoom in the open in 20 minutes?
32:24
I'll give it a go. I'll say I think I can.
32:26
I'll throw it in there. And he doesn't quite know that
32:28
it's going to work as brilliantly as it does.
32:31
And every film he's made since has a much more controlled
32:35
feeling to it. Jaws, it feels like he's
32:37
juggling so many plates and the whole thing is about a collapse
32:40
around his ears, but he posted off through she instinct lawn.
32:44
You know, he is almost nervous about it, like Westie said, and
32:47
he must have had that realization by the end.
32:49
Like, holy shit, I can actually do this.
32:53
I can do this really really well, but it's just instinctual.
32:56
Like, watch Jaws in Munich in a double feature, Yeah.
33:00
Exactly what the fuck? Yeah.
33:02
Yeah, for me, it's Spielberg and the set pieces in the film.
33:07
Yeah, there are so many big moments in this film, which I
33:10
think could have we overshadowed the story or made the quieter
33:13
moments seem boring. But the quieter moments are ones
33:16
like the USS Indianapolis speech or when Hooper comes over for
33:19
dinner. So still huge, Yeah.
33:22
I love how you put Hooper at dinner alongside the
33:24
Indianapolis. But it's still a big, big moment
33:31
in its own way. Yeah.
33:33
And it obviously opens with that huge Chrissy walk and set piece.
33:36
Even the credit sequence beforehand is massive.
33:39
And then you get the Kitten of Death and Quints intro and
33:41
Hoopa's intro and the tiger shark and Bank Garden has bought
33:43
and everything in the second-half and yadda yadda
33:45
yadda. So I suppose what I'm trying to
33:47
say is that every single scene feels like a set piece in one
33:51
way or another. And I think that's just because
33:53
of the reputation the film has. It's larger than life.
33:57
It never comes up for breath. It's a set piece movie, as we've
34:00
talked about, as it would later be known, the first time of
34:02
blockbuster, one of the first event movies.
34:04
So I think Spielberg changed how people interacted with cinema
34:07
and how movies impacted and transcended popular culture.
34:11
You may not have seen Jaws. I mean, you might also be
34:14
mental, but regardless, you know what yours is.
34:17
Yeah. So I think you take these things
34:19
on a granular level and put them together.
34:20
There's no wonder it became the phenomenon it did.
34:23
And that's down to Spielberg and I think his understanding or
34:25
he's beginning to understand big cinema and how to make it work.
34:30
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it is classic
34:32
Spielberg, isn't it? I mean, not just because it's
34:35
one of his biggest and most love films, but in the content as
34:37
well. We've got the dynamic of the
34:39
suburban American family in the Broadies offset against the,
34:42
like, big fantastical spectacle. He's done that through his
34:45
career. Yeah, we have the father and son
34:47
dynamic. It's been a recurring theme in
34:49
Spielberg films. Last John Williams this year.
34:51
We'll talk about him more a bit later.
34:52
But now the Spielberg Hallmark that I maybe love most about
34:55
Jaws are the visuals. It's so cinematic, it's
34:59
ridiculous. I saw an interview with one of
35:01
the producers, Richard Days. I know we're talking about
35:03
Spielberg when he was young and he said words to the effective
35:06
He doesn't read scripts, he saves them.
35:08
And we get definite proof of that here.
35:10
We're talking about the Alex Kidner sequence, and that's a
35:12
master class in converting words in a script into cinema.
35:15
And that's just one example. It happens all the way through
35:17
the film, the cameras always moving, the blocking of scenes
35:20
is extraordinary. And I mean, we've start now.
35:23
We've been doing it for half a century.
35:25
But he was 27 when he made Jaws. Wow.
35:28
He's like Lennon and McCartney. Like, how were you that good at
35:31
such a young age? Yeah.
35:33
Lucas and Zemeckis, Ringo and George, obviously.
35:38
I think the answer is that he's just a natural.
35:40
He obviously worked hard. He developed his skills, but
35:42
more than most could, he could just do it.
35:45
I think he was one of the best examples of Spielberg's natural
35:47
talents. And others might disagree.
35:49
I know you deal Westie, but still his best film for me.
35:53
Oh, it's a debating. Yeah, coming to me after that
35:57
bombshell. Delivered the bomb.
36:01
Yes, you did. The first thing I've got written
36:04
down here, John, is what you've said.
36:05
It's natural talent. And it's just one of them things
36:08
where I kind of look at it and go, what he's doing here is is
36:12
on the back foot, I feel. And there's a lot of this is
36:14
stacked against him. And I don't think he feels
36:16
confident about this film as he's making it.
36:19
I think he feels confident about the techniques that he's using
36:21
and he knows how to tell of a really visual story.
36:25
I'll honestly say that I don't think this film needs much
36:27
dialogue at all. Doesn't.
36:29
It's so visual, isn't it? It's crazy, it is.
36:31
And they said he had a nervous breakdown making it.
36:33
And, you know, it's a really traumatic experience for him.
36:36
But I think that traumatic experience comes across as
36:38
you're watching the film. It adds to that sense of dread.
36:41
It adds that sense of unnerving. But what he does here with
36:44
aplomb is delivers the Spielberg that he believes in.
36:48
And that's the Spielberg that changed cinema, absolutely
36:52
changed it. And that's the whole point.
36:54
But he's using very classic, conventional cinematic
36:57
techniques, and he always has, and he knows what works.
37:00
He's fallen back on the likes of Hitchcock here, he's fallen back
37:02
on the likes of Orson Welles. And he's like, I'm going to do
37:05
that Vertigo shot. Because if everything else
37:07
fails, at least I've done that. He was made to believe in
37:10
himself making this film, and it made him who he is and he made
37:14
him the director that he is, and it is one of his best films.
37:18
It's no readers of The Lost Dog. Let's put that out there.
37:21
And that's to me, a far more exciting film.
37:23
This has got some anxiety attached to it from the
37:25
filmmaker, and I think that's to its advantage because the film
37:29
needs anxiety. I agree.
37:30
And it absolutely needs him to be worried about if it's going
37:33
to work or not. And that's why I think this
37:35
film's an absolute classic, because all of them things are
37:37
necessary to make this what it is.
37:39
If he came in and made Jaws now, it would be nowhere near as good
37:43
as this. I don't think it.
37:44
Would no, it wouldn't be CGI Jacques for start.
37:46
Yeah. But yeah, it would be like, you
37:47
know about the future too. It would just be like the
37:50
sharks. That looks big, but it would be
37:52
because there's no safety in the creative process here.
37:56
That breeds creativity. Restriction breeds creativity,
37:59
and that's what you get from Spielberg here.
38:01
He realized that his natural talent is acceptable.
38:05
It's important and it's fucking unreal.
38:08
Yeah, in creativity, limitations can't be a good thing, can't
38:11
they? Massively.
38:11
Absolutely. As it kind of pushes that talent
38:13
to the forefront. He's got to rely on it.
38:15
Yeah, I mean, if you give Picasso like 3 colours, he's
38:18
going to paint something better than with 25, you know?
38:20
And I think that's the whole point.
38:22
Yeah, I think yours is one of the best examples of that in any
38:24
medium, to be honest. Yeah, I agree.
38:27
It's pretty well known now, I think as well that Steven
38:29
Spielberg was not the first director of Jaws, mainly because
38:32
we keep going on about it. OK, But it is still a good
38:35
story, and so who wants to tell it?
38:37
I'll start. Off Luke, obviously, Yeah.
38:40
Love these stories. Yeah, yeah.
38:41
The first person Universal hired to direct Jaws was Dick
38:44
Richards. At the time he was a world
38:47
renowned photographer and was brought in by the producers
38:49
Richard Zanuck and David Brown. After this or the Culpepper
38:52
Cattle Corps. Yeah, Richard's directorial
38:54
debut, a Western, one of only a handful of Westerns that I've
38:57
actually seen. Oh wow.
38:58
Oh. Really.
38:59
Is it good? It's fine.
39:02
You missed the trick, they could have said.
39:03
One of the only fistful of westerns that I've seen.
39:07
You're not on the genre so I'll let you, but.
39:08
That's why you get paid the big bucks, Western.
39:10
Of course. But Richard wasn't on board for
39:13
too long, though during meetings with the producers he kept
39:16
calling the shark a whale. So he got he whore very quickly.
39:21
Yeah. Come on, Dick.
39:24
Come on, Moby Dick. Moby Dick Richards schoolboy.
39:29
But apparently Richard's plan was to show the shock in the
39:31
opening scene. Like with Chrissy, I mean, not
39:33
like on the beach, I assume with the students.
39:35
That would have been weird. Yeah, it would have been weird
39:37
having a beer, getting stoned. So universal, we're looking for
39:42
new director and apparently considered Michael Winner
39:45
because he just made death wish. Terrible.
39:48
Imagine that. The death wish, all right.
39:51
Yeah, it is. Winner.
39:54
However, Sonic and Brown had just finished producing a film
39:57
called The Sugarland Express and we're very impressed with the
39:59
director, so recommended to him to Sid Sheinberg, the head of
40:02
Universal in Sonic said. Within two days we knew he was
40:06
extraordinary, and that was obviously Steven Spielberg.
40:09
Yeah. Nice.
40:10
Thank God for that. I thought you bet when I was
40:11
extraordinary there. Extraordinarily bad, yeah.
40:16
Winner doing it appears. If he's too British to do it, it
40:19
would have been cotton chips. Twice.
40:24
Didn't do Jaws, just did a shit load of death wish sequels
40:27
instead. The faces of death.
40:31
Spielberg was already known to Sheinberg as he'd done a lot of
40:34
work for him as ATV director like Jewel, which is a great
40:37
film and my personal favorite. First ever episode of Colombo
40:42
called Murder by the Book. What a fucking.
40:45
Episode of Columbo, that is, as well as a pilot. 01 episode of
40:48
TV. It's unbelievable.
40:50
There's everything in that. If you think you're talking
40:51
about the Alex Kinder murder, there's more in that.
40:53
It's exhausting to watch. It is.
40:55
The first 10 minutes are more cinematic than every other
40:58
episode of Columbo put together. It's like jangles and long
41:01
tracking shots and like crossfade transition.
41:03
It's like, who's brilliant? Yeah.
41:05
No. Wouldn't that be a full kind of
41:06
glass eye? Probably called by Spielberg,
41:09
Which? Camera do I look at?
41:13
And famously, Spielberg had to deal with a lot of issues for
41:16
production. So first, when production
41:18
started, his Screen Actors Guild strike was taking place, so it
41:21
was difficult to hire actors in nine days before filming
41:25
started, Spielberg still haven't cast Quint or Hooper. 9 days.
41:31
Yeah, fuck it on. Yeah.
41:33
First, people would tell a story that one night during
41:34
production, he was at a party and a famous Hollywood actress
41:37
who was never named came up to him and basically said you're
41:40
never going to work in Hollywood again, which was nice of that.
41:43
Wow, Nice. Wow.
41:44
And maybe the worst prediction ever.
41:47
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was begging for work
41:50
afterwards. I'd love to know who that was.
41:52
Yeah, and then when shooting did start, the script wasn't
41:55
finished and Spielberg and Karl Gottlieb were writing scenes at
41:57
night, but they were scheduled to shoot the next day.
42:02
Yes, he was working like nonstop, basically, but Carl
42:04
Gottlieb said that during filming, while they were doing
42:06
that, Richard Dreyfuss was living it up and sleeping around
42:08
with Lord of the Martha's Vineyard Girls, but he was
42:10
working every night. Yes.
42:13
I mean, blame the script all you want, but I'm not entirely sure
42:16
I, Gottlieb would have been in there with the ladies.
42:18
That right? No.
42:21
I've got a lot on. And Spielberg also made the
42:25
decision that he wanted to shoot the scene set at sea, actually
42:28
out at sea. Spielberg's Anakin Brown hadn't
42:31
done that before, obviously. And there were loads of
42:34
unforeseen problems, like whenever there was bad weather,
42:36
they just had to stop filming. And there's a lot of bad weather
42:38
at sea. There is, and it would often
42:41
happen where they'd be filming and a ball would suddenly appear
42:43
on the horizon in the background and have to wait for it to pass
42:47
over a shot. And sometimes and that would
42:48
appear at the last minute, a nightmare or.
42:52
A real shark and they're like oh for fuck.
42:53
'S sake. Does that one work?
42:58
Well, very famously talking about it, the mechanical shark
43:01
regularly broke down, which we'll talk about more later.
43:04
And those sea scenes were filmed on quinch ship, the Orca.
43:07
And at one point during film and the orca sank, it had to be
43:10
abandoned. Spiegelberg said.
43:12
The cast were taken off first and one of the sound guys was
43:14
left on the orca holding the boom above his head, shouting
43:17
screw. The actors saved the sound
43:18
department. Sorry mate, you're going down
43:22
with the ship, Yeah? You're definitely.
43:24
Behind Charlotte and there's audio recordings from the
43:27
walkie-talkie. He's the head at the time of
43:29
Joel was the production designer.
43:30
He's really calm, just going, hi, Joe here.
43:33
The board's sinking. So obviously these problems
43:39
cause huge delays. The planned 65 day shooting
43:42
schedule overrun to 157 days and the budget went up from $4
43:47
million to $9 million, Spielberg said.
43:50
It's the hardest production I've ever worked on.
43:52
I have nightmares for a lot of years.
43:55
Waking up in a cold sweat like George McFly.
44:00
Learning the hardware. So yeah, production started at
44:03
the beginning of May 1974, was supposed to finish the first
44:06
week of July, and actually finish in the middle of
44:08
September. I mean, I can still sense the
44:10
stress now, decades later. Yeah.
44:13
For his work on George, Spielberg was not nominated at
44:15
the Oscars for best director. It was some roster that year.
44:18
Kubrick, Fellini, Milos Foreman and Robert Altman and Sidney
44:21
Lumet were the nominees. Incredible big names, yeah.
44:25
George wasn't nominated for Best Picture though, and lost out to
44:28
Do You Remember What? Cuckoo's nest?
44:32
Wasn't it cuckoo? 'S nest, yeah.
44:33
One flew over the cookie's nest and I also won best director for
44:36
Milos Foreman. Yes, yeah.
44:38
So no major award recognition for Spielberg for Jaws, but he
44:41
went on to do all right for himself and for us.
44:43
Pretty incredible work from him here.
44:45
Absolutely. One of the very best.
44:51
The cast. Spielberg was largely unknown as
44:56
a director at the time he made Jaws.
44:58
The actors were mostly more famous than he was.
45:00
And we're going to talk about some of the cast now in our
45:02
three leads. That's Robert Shaw as shark
45:05
hunter Quint and Richard Dreyfuss, a shark scientist,
45:08
Matt Hoover. But we're going to start with
45:10
our protagonist. We are.
45:12
Same thing up the. Big man.
45:14
So Roy Scheider is Chief Martin Brody.
45:16
Fresh from New York. Brody has been appointed chief
45:19
of police on Amity Island, and we follow his story from a man
45:22
afraid to go in the water through having to deal with the
45:24
shark praying on beach dwellers to ultimately killing the
45:26
creature in the climactic moment of the film.
45:30
It's only an island if you look at it from the water, Luke.
45:33
Strange logic, yeah, I don't quite know what that means.
45:37
But what are your thoughts on Shada as Brody?
45:40
Yeah, I think Brody is looking for something like this to
45:42
happen, to be honest. The way that he reacts when he
45:45
first hears about the shark, because he's a big city cop
45:48
who's no doubt seen his fair share of action and he settled
45:50
for the quiet life. When he gets something like
45:53
this, he's all action, right? We've got to make some signs,
45:56
we've got to close the beaches. Yeah, it's hardly John McLean,
45:59
is he? They're probably to do the
46:02
writing. He.
46:04
Actually asks where's the close beach Signs of that, Yeah, I
46:07
mean. Yeah, it.
46:07
Isn't, but he takes this so seriously.
46:11
Yeah. He's very kind of laconic at the
46:13
start, but then as soon as he gets this, he's right
46:16
interaction. And because this is the biggest
46:18
thing he's had to deal with as a copper since coming to Amity.
46:21
And it feels to me that Shider has tapped right back into
46:24
Cloudy Rousseau, his character from The French Connection.
46:26
And what would happen if Cloudy got sick of Popeye shit and
46:30
opted for a quiet life with this old lady at the beach?
46:33
Yeah, but then the old reflexes kick in and he's acting like
46:36
he's back in the Bowery, but on the water.
46:38
Yeah. Marathon man.
46:40
Yeah, I think Shider is the perfect everyman.
46:44
I love a mate, yeah. He is classic every man
46:47
character, Broadly, and I think she does excellent all the way
46:49
through as the likable, kind of safe, competent cop at the start
46:53
and also the action hero at the end.
46:54
Yeah. And I think he's especially good
46:56
if playing the times when we see Broadly is just a man who's,
46:58
like stressed out of his head. Like when Hooper first arrives
47:01
on the island and Brody frantically greets him like I'm
47:04
Brody, I'm Brody almost pulls his arm off.
47:07
But tell you who, he's not helped by Deputy Hendrix, played
47:10
by Jeffrey Kramer. I'd rather have Jimi Hendrix and
47:14
be Deputy the name watching, therefore just blowing that
47:17
whistle and panicking. That moment where he throws the
47:20
stuff at him Where? He's on the phone.
47:23
And he just waves. But yeah, those moments where
47:28
Brody has like the weight of the world on his shoulders, I'd lots
47:31
of drama out of the film and show that carries the whole
47:33
thing brilliantly start to finish for me.
47:35
Yeah, agree. Yeah, I think there's three
47:38
characteristics for these three characters and our three
47:40
emotions really. And I think should I does the
47:43
heart got who? Who's the innocence and you've
47:45
got sure who's the violence. This is the heart and soul of
47:48
it. He wants to do the right thing,
47:50
but his lack of control is palpable.
47:52
But his willingness to do the right thing kind of overshadows
47:55
and battles against that. And that's really excellent.
47:58
And I think the undertone of this, and it could be overplayed
48:00
by any of the director, is that he's scared of the water.
48:03
Yeah. But it's so subtly done.
48:05
It's. Just the right amount, isn't it?
48:06
It's. Just the right amount where you
48:08
know that he's not comfortable, but he's the heart and he's the
48:10
strength of the story. And his fear is not the shark,
48:13
it's the ocean itself. It's so intricate, this whole
48:16
performance. I think it's just so well played
48:18
by Shadow, who who could be a real hard ass.
48:21
There's an insecurity behind all of it that really reigns true
48:25
and makes you really care about the character and really love
48:27
the character. And he cares about his family.
48:29
His heart's in the right place. He wants to do the right thing,
48:32
but he doesn't know how to do the right thing.
48:34
He's so happy that that Tiger Shark's been caught and he's
48:37
walking up and he's just like. Oh yes, double handshakes for
48:41
everyone. And you can see it just sinks.
48:44
Oh, this isn't done with. Oh for fuck sake, there's more
48:47
to do. Here desperately wants it to be.
48:49
Resolved desperately wants it to be over.
48:51
He wants to be back to his life, and he doesn't really want this
48:53
to happen. But this problem he doesn't know
48:55
how to solve. And I think China plays that so,
48:57
so well. And you feel sorry for him, but
48:59
at the same time, I'd be on that board with him.
49:01
I completely trust him because his morals are in the right
49:04
place, his heart's in the right place, and his head's in the
49:06
right place. Well, casting Brody wasn't a
49:09
simple process for Spielberg. Apparently.
49:12
When Peter Benchley was asked by the studio who he wanted to cast
49:14
as Brody, Quinton Hooper, he said Paul Newman, Robert Redford
49:18
and Steve McQueen. The studio obviously video of
49:24
that idea as it would have been far too expensive and also
49:27
that's far too much handsome in one film surely.
49:31
There's going to be some EU's clashing there, isn't there?
49:35
So when Spielberg came in, he apparently considered Gene
49:37
Hackman as Brody and also Robert Duvall, but apparently he wanted
49:41
to play Quint. Charlton Heston also wanted to
49:44
play Brody, but Spielberg feed or that said he was just too big
49:48
a star and said the shark just wouldn't survive past the first
49:51
act. Great.
49:53
You shot him with me rifle. It was cold, dead hands.
50:00
Same with Hackman 1 bellow from Hackman.
50:02
We wouldn't see the shark ever again.
50:04
Hackman would have been amazing as quick to be fair.
50:06
He wouldn't have been. Yeah, Popeye hat though.
50:09
Yeah, dressed as Sander, Yeah. Just listening.
50:14
Just listen. It's around the corner.
50:18
Anymore happened, drugs wouldn't get in there I.
50:20
Think that's. It Spielberg was struggling with
50:24
casting Brody and getting a bit worried.
50:26
One night he was at a party and got talking to Roy Schneider,
50:29
who asked what he was working on.
50:30
Spielberg told him about Jaws and said he was struggling to
50:33
cast the lead role. So after Spielberg told him the
50:35
plot of the film should have said, well, what about me?
50:39
Brilliant. Yeah.
50:40
Love that. For somebody who was under a
50:42
load of pressure making Jaws, Spielberg seems to have spent a
50:44
lot of time at parties, yes. So what driving was up to?
50:50
Probably furious. Back at the shack by himself,
50:54
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, Shade, I was probably
50:58
the most known for playing Russo in the French Connection at the
51:00
time, I think. Yeah.
51:01
And worked out OK with him as Brody, didn't it?
51:05
Oh, fantastic. No, it's fantastic.
51:06
Yeah. No major award recognition for
51:09
Roy Schrader for Jaws. I mean Best Actor at the Oscars
51:11
went to Jack Nicholson for Cookie was Nest, which is fair
51:14
enough. Yeah.
51:16
But we think Shade is very good as Brody and now probably his
51:19
most famous role. I would have said so, yeah.
51:21
Yeah, I would say so. You didn't have to do anything
51:23
else after this. To be honest, it is defining.
51:28
The next cast member we're talking about is Robert Shaw as
51:31
grizzled all sea dog Quint offering his shark killing
51:34
services. In the first act he takes Brody
51:36
and Hoover out on his ship the Orca and after delivering an
51:39
almighty monologue dies in the jaws of the beast.
51:42
In the final moments he has to swim in with bore legged women
51:46
Westie. Absolutely have some of this.
51:49
I made it myself. No, I'm fine.
51:53
I was Robert Shaw. I was Quint.
51:55
Robert Shaw's Quint makes the film what it is, in my humble
51:58
opinion. It doesn't really start until he
52:00
turns up, and when he does turn up, it adds an incredible
52:02
weight, and all of a sudden it turns into this really, really
52:06
serious film. Really adult film.
52:08
This guy's fucking terrifying. And he isn't.
52:11
He just reminds me, like just me granda when I used to go around,
52:15
that's what we granda would be like.
52:16
No. Wonder you're the way you are
52:18
hitting. An album with a knife.
52:21
Mango with a machete. I'm wrestling Chinese man.
52:24
Well, I wasn't. There for that, but I'm sure he
52:26
did. But it's got that kind of
52:27
presence, hasn't it where you just you can't argue with this
52:30
guy, you can't answer him back. You just think he commands
52:33
respect. Robert Show has that presence,
52:36
and when he's on the screen, he fills the screen and Spielberg
52:38
knows for a fact he can fill the screen and he gives him that
52:41
room to do it. And he has this real dynamic
52:45
performance to it where it's classic, but at the same time
52:48
it's progressive. But every time that you put him
52:51
on a scene with Dreyfus in China, he just absolutely owns
52:55
it. He owns that boat, he owns
52:57
everything about it, and it's just such a powerful
53:00
performance, such an engaging performance.
53:03
You know, it's quite sad that it was a couple of years after they
53:05
said he passed away. But what a legacy to leave.
53:09
What a performance at the end of your life.
53:11
And you know, I mean, he wasn't in too many things where you'll
53:13
turn your head and go, Robert Shaw, Robert Shaw, Robert Shaw,
53:16
it kind of come from nowhere, but you can tell he's turned up
53:20
and he understands the assignment 110% and delivers it
53:24
120%. He's fucking amazing in this and
53:27
I'll never get tired of watching.
53:30
I agree, he's absolutely brilliant.
53:32
Plays like an obnoxious, aggressive, like antagonistic
53:35
lunatic really well. Like I said, he's the violence.
53:38
He's just the violence of humanity.
53:40
From the behind the scenes stories you hear, which we'll
53:42
talk about, it seems this character did maybe live
53:45
somewhere inside Shaw, and he taps into it brilliantly.
53:48
Yeah. When you see him interviewed on
53:49
the set, Robert Shaw in real life was like an articulate,
53:52
well spoken man. So the voice that he affects
53:54
here that like caustic, kind of confrontational tone Quint
53:57
always has. It's just perfect.
53:59
And he's got some great lines when Hoopa's board in the Yorker
54:02
with all of his high tech equipment and quince like, what
54:05
are you some kind of a hair fast astronauts, Queens, queen shark
54:09
hunting with a fishing rod and some cans.
54:11
Not too much of a man he is. But he wants to go by himself
54:14
by. Himself there's.
54:19
Too many captains on this island love that line.
54:22
He is a fantastic character in the film and masterfully played
54:26
by Robert Shaw. Yeah.
54:29
Just the definition of a scene seal and performance to me, and
54:32
you know it probably is. Second most notable performance
54:35
is a henchman in a Bond film. From Russia with love.
54:39
Love, Yeah, he asked the fight on the train with Connery.
54:41
But then this performance comes along and I'm just going to read
54:45
out the five nominees for Best Supporting actor at the Oscars
54:47
that year because George Burns one for the Sunshine Boys.
54:52
Good. Brad Durif got nominated for One
54:54
Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Chris Sarandon for Dog Day
54:56
Afternoon, Jack Warden for Shampoo, and Burgess Meredith DF
55:00
The Locust. Now, all fine actors, some great
55:03
performances in there, but all of them better than Robert Shaw
55:06
in this. I mean, that's one of the
55:09
biggest oversights ever, I think, because this is the very
55:12
definition of what a truly great sport and performance is, comes
55:15
along and steals the film from everyone else.
55:17
Yeah, maybe duriff like, but everyone.
55:19
Else Duriff is fantastic, yeah. Yeah, well, Spielberg had a
55:22
little bit of trouble casting Quince.
55:24
His first choice was Lee Marvin, but Marvin apparently said he'd
55:27
rather go fishing for real. Very dismissive.
55:32
Sterling Hayden reportedly said no, as he owed the IRS millions
55:36
in taxes at the time and had to move abroad.
55:39
So basically if you took the work in the US, he would
55:42
essentially be working for free, right?
55:44
Did he not want to just clear slate, take the job, clear the
55:47
slate, move back? And Oliver Reed also turned down
55:50
the park. But big Ollie.
55:52
Would have been incredible. He'd have been insane, Oliver
55:55
read like. Yeah, Quinn would have been
55:57
doing torts and knocking back shots every scene.
55:59
They have all of our readers played.
56:01
Oliver read You wouldn't need a bigger shark, not a bigger bull.
56:06
But yes, Anakin Brown had worked with Robert Shaw when they
56:08
produced The Sting. They recommended him to
56:10
Spielberg and that's how we got the part as Quint.
56:13
Right. Nice.
56:14
Brilliant. And Shaw was an award-winning
56:17
writer as well as an actor. He'd written 6 novels and
56:19
brought some of that experience to the script.
56:22
Human film. And he spent two weeks tailing a
56:24
real Martha's Vineyard fisherman called Craig Kingsbury.
56:27
And as Shaw put it, they would jabber on about any old thing.
56:31
Shark killing mostly. And some of Quinn's lines come
56:34
directly from Kingsby, like when he says hunting sharks isn't
56:37
like chasing blue gills and Tommy gods.
56:40
Yeah, Craig, can you put in a few scenes as well, Isn't he?
56:44
He plays the fisherman Ben Gardner.
56:46
Yes, right. Yeah, and he came up with a line
56:48
himself where he says when we get them silly bastards down in
56:51
that rock pile, they'll wish the fathers had never met the
56:54
mothers. Leave that one in whatever it
56:57
is. And the scene where Quint sings
57:01
the British naval song Spanish Ladies to Hooper wasn't in the
57:04
script either. That was Shaw's idea and so was
57:06
the moment where he recited the Mary Lee Limerick.
57:09
Both iconic. Really funny that one, yeah.
57:12
He lived in Island at the time, Robert Shaw, and apparently he
57:15
saw that Limerick on a tombstone for an Irish woman who died.
57:18
Well, not the most dignified obituary I've ever heard.
57:21
No, no. I'll be happy with that.
57:25
Ended up in the film. You can't complain, can you?
57:26
End. Up in yours, Yeah, fair enough.
57:29
Then Shaw also had a hand in writing the Indianapolis speech
57:31
that Quinta lives on the orca, which we'll talk about later,
57:34
obviously. Sure.
57:35
Yeah, definitely he did. But yeah, some great
57:37
contributions those. And he brings a lot of humor as
57:40
well. I always laugh when he's like
57:42
Hooper Starboard and you're watching it when it's fishing
57:46
rod. Ridiculous.
57:47
Yeah. It's ridiculous.
57:50
I love us. When he talks to Brody's wife on
57:51
the radio, it's like what you would say to anyone's wife if
57:54
you were on a stag do. It's like he's just got fishing.
57:56
It's absolutely fine. Nothing to worry about.
57:58
Cassie I. Remember him badly.
58:04
When they were shooting the film, Sean Richard Dreyfuss
58:05
didn't get on with each other and would argue with each other
58:08
constantly. Shayla said that Shaw would say
58:10
look at you Dreyfuss, you're fat, you're sloppy, you call
58:13
yourself an actor. I bet you couldn't do 5 push
58:16
ups. I mean, probably right, to be
58:19
fair. He's not fat though.
58:23
No, he's not fat. It's really political for no
58:26
reason. And Spielberg said that Shaw
58:28
Challenge drive was to jump off the top of the ogre into the
58:30
ocean, which was about 80. Feet.
58:33
Dreyfus was actually going to do it until Spielberg stopped him.
58:36
He can't do that. You love it.
58:39
Yeah, well, we see how I did for ourselves when we get that
58:41
awesome overhead shot of printing the crows nest.
58:43
Looking down at the yoga. That's where Dreyfus was going
58:46
to jump from. Christ, Richard Kimball.
58:51
It's high, yeah. And Spielberg tells another
58:53
story where Shaw was drinking on the Yorker one day, obviously
58:56
after his old tricks, and when Dreyfus walked past him, he
58:59
grabbed the glass out of Shaw's hand and threw it into the sea.
59:02
It got ugly, Spielberg said. A bad day, just like Dreyfus.
59:08
Imagine that being Ollie Reed that have been a murder it.
59:13
Wouldn't have just been one glass.
59:15
Doing the Bill Sykes bullseye. No, I said recognition for
59:21
Robert Show either. For Jaws.
59:22
I was going to say I'd be amazed if you can tell me you wouldn't
59:24
best supporting actor that year, but man, I think you probably
59:27
can. Yeah.
59:29
It was George Burns for the Sunshine Boys.
59:31
I don't think there's too many people talking about that
59:33
performance nowadays, no. But Robert Shaw's Quint is
59:36
pretty timeless. Yeah.
59:38
Very, very timely. The 3rd and final member of the
59:43
three men in a Board gang is Richard Dreyfuss, who plays Matt
59:46
Hooper, an oceanographer with a fascination for sharks.
59:50
Hooper was summoned from the mainland after the first two
59:52
beach deaths, confronts the shark in the cage and survives
59:55
to the end of the film. Yeah.
59:58
He just wants to get his name in the National Geographic.
1:00:02
How was Richard Dreyfuss as Hooper?
1:00:05
Hooper drives the boat chief. That's it.
1:00:10
Yeah, that's it. I'm done.
1:00:12
Drives the boat. That's all he does.
1:00:15
No, he brings so much to this, and it's so important because
1:00:17
Hoopa is essentially there. Just this exposition.
1:00:21
He doesn't have the arc that Brody has.
1:00:23
He doesn't have the back story that Quinn brings to it.
1:00:25
He's there to turn up, to start explaining things to Brody.
1:00:28
This was a shark attack, but it wasn't the tiger shark.
1:00:30
The bite radius is too big. This is what sharks actually do.
1:00:33
This is how we find them. This is how we kill them, and I
1:00:36
think other actors might have struggled to bring that
1:00:38
character off the page. And we have the Dreyfus does and
1:00:40
what he has. He just has this youthful
1:00:42
exuberance that contrasts really effectively with Brody and Quint
1:00:46
in particular. Yeah, he's like a child, a
1:00:48
quint, isn't he? Yeah, yes, he's like an annoying
1:00:50
little child he's got to put up with, but he's just got this
1:00:53
real comic charm to the role, you know, helping himself to
1:00:56
dinner with the Brodies, crushing the cup of water in
1:00:59
front of Quint, pulling faces behind Quint when Quints had a
1:01:02
gored him. Dreyfus.
1:01:04
I think more than anyone in the cast, he really elevates what
1:01:06
he's being given on the page. Yeah, I mean, I totally agree
1:01:09
with that. He does elevate the material
1:01:11
massively, and there's not that much for him to really clam on
1:01:14
to and make them likable, to be honest.
1:01:16
He's a rich kid who is going out looking for sharks and his
1:01:19
family's rich and he just funds all of this stuff and he's
1:01:22
constantly telling the heroes of the piece that the wrong.
1:01:24
Yeah, he's a bit for know it all.
1:01:25
Yeah, he could be really annoying, couldn't he?
1:01:27
It could be an absolute fucking nightmare.
1:01:29
But he is the voice of reason. Like I said, he's like a child.
1:01:32
But he portrays the innocence in the film.
1:01:35
He respects everything and everybody and gives them their
1:01:38
own space. And when he's not respected, all
1:01:40
he can do is pull faces and just say, oh, yeah.
1:01:42
But still gets on with it. Yeah.
1:01:44
You know, it's the wonderful comedy timing from Dreyfus when
1:01:46
he's talking to the guys and he's like the chief said, you're
1:01:49
overloading that boat. And then they start giving them
1:01:51
loads of shit. He's our.
1:01:52
They're all going to die. I'm too drunk to do that.
1:01:54
No, you're not. I am.
1:01:56
No, you're not. I can't do that.
1:01:57
Yes, you can. Really Nice.
1:02:00
I think Dreyfus plays this beautifully.
1:02:02
He knows his place in it, but when he needs to be, he's a
1:02:05
real, really beautiful kind of light relief to the film.
1:02:09
Yes, he's excellent. Yeah.
1:02:11
I mean, he's likable, he's charming and who?
1:02:13
But probably my favorite character, right?
1:02:15
Yeah. You get some funny lines, like
1:02:16
when Quinn's yelling at him on the orca and who.
1:02:18
But like, I can't take this abuse much longer in that we
1:02:21
advice, and there's a few nights ad libs in there from Dreyfus as
1:02:25
well, like when Quinn crushes the car and Hooper crushes the
1:02:27
paper. Couple of response, Spielberg
1:02:29
said. I got a huge laugh from the crew
1:02:31
so we kept it in lovely. All right, all.
1:02:34
Right. He's just brilliant.
1:02:39
I think Dreyfus got so much appeal on screen.
1:02:41
He's just so warm and inviting. Definitely my favorite
1:02:44
character. He comes in all breezy, making
1:02:46
jokes about people not making it out of the water alive, but then
1:02:49
he turns on a dime as soon as he sees the remains of Chrissy.
1:02:53
And Dreyfus does that so convincingly so as to make us
1:02:56
concerned. Well, if this guy's shaken up by
1:02:59
what he's seen, then we're really in for it.
1:03:01
As if we haven't been already. We're only 30 minutes in and
1:03:04
we've seen all manner of crazy shit.
1:03:07
But I do feel as though that he is like you were saying, Matt.
1:03:10
He is there to tell the audience what we're looking at here, what
1:03:14
we're dealing with, and his exasperation towards the mayor
1:03:18
in that National Geographic scene is amazing.
1:03:22
And it turns into that mad cackle that he does.
1:03:28
But overall, I think he's just a very comfort and presence on
1:03:31
screen. Well, apparently when they were
1:03:33
looking for the guy to play Cooper, the studio originally
1:03:36
wanted young Michael Vincent, who was famous for the TV series
1:03:39
Airwolf. Yeah, yeah, where we played.
1:03:41
Get this for a name string, fellow Hawk.
1:03:44
Yeah. Amazing, should have kept that.
1:03:47
Imagine introducing yourself as Stringfellow Hawk to Quint.
1:03:52
Imagine it gives yourself a string full of hawk to anyone.
1:03:57
But you had Michael Vincent had like long, safe, I say, a blonde
1:03:59
hair, which is very much how Hoopers described in the book.
1:04:02
So that's why they wanted him, presumably.
1:04:05
Right. Should have got Sean Penn from
1:04:06
Bus Times. But drivers had just starred in
1:04:10
American Graffiti, obviously direct by George Lucas, and
1:04:13
Lucas recommended drivers to Spielberg is a good fit for
1:04:16
Hooper. Joined to the hip.
1:04:18
Lucas and Spielberg weren't. They always and not even Yeah.
1:04:21
Absolutely. He needs to cut them loose.
1:04:22
Yeah, she'll just cut Lucas. He had to be adding glasses at
1:04:24
the time. Pastor more intense.
1:04:29
I don't like sand. He doesn't like sand.
1:04:31
He wouldn't have been on the beat.
1:04:32
Yeah, he'll just sit on the board.
1:04:34
When Spielberg approached Dreyfus Thor, he did say no
1:04:37
because he didn't like the idea of shooting out at sea.
1:04:40
But then his next film came out, The Apprenticeship of Duddy
1:04:42
Kravitz, and Dreyfus thought he was awful in it, so he called
1:04:45
Spielberg up and asked if the part was still available.
1:04:48
Right, yeah. And apparently between Dreyfus
1:04:50
saying no and then saying yes, Spielberg had discussed the part
1:04:53
with Jon Voight and Jeff Bridges as well, which would have been
1:04:57
good I think. Bridges would have been really
1:04:59
good, yeah. At that time, yeah.
1:05:00
What's that? Star Man Time.
1:05:02
No, more like Thunderbolt and Lightfoot.
1:05:04
Thunderball, right? OK, Yeah.
1:05:05
Yes. Yeah, and after production was
1:05:07
finished, but before the film was released, Dreyfus did an
1:05:09
interview where he said the film was going to be bad and that he
1:05:12
was bad in it, but he didn't lay the blame at Spielberg store, he
1:05:15
implicated Sonic and Brown. Right.
1:05:18
Sonic and Brown's fault that he was bad in the film, but I guess
1:05:24
that's came from how bad the production went.
1:05:25
Dreyfus couldn't say what Spielberg could, I suppose.
1:05:28
And now Richard Dreyfuss says that yours is the best work I
1:05:31
ever did. So he's changed his tune.
1:05:33
Well. Of course.
1:05:34
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Playmat Huber was a huge shot in
1:05:37
the arm for the career of Richard Dreyfuss.
1:05:39
Within three years he played the lead in the Spielberg film in
1:05:42
close Encounters of the Third Kind and win an Oscar for The
1:05:45
Goodbye Girl. Brilliant.
1:05:46
And here is Huber. We're all fans of Richard
1:05:48
Dreyfuss. Love him.
1:05:51
So that's our main cast. We talked a little about Murray
1:05:54
Hamilton earlier, and we'll talk a little about Laurie and Gary
1:05:56
shortly. But our leads the three Rs of
1:05:59
Roy Scheider, Robert Shaw and Richard Dreyfuss career defining
1:06:02
work from all three. Yes.
1:06:06
Yeah. This episode of All the Right
1:06:16
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1:07:30
The middle. The first act of Jaws is jam
1:07:35
packed. If we talked about and going
1:07:37
into act two, Spielberg doesn't let up.
1:07:40
We're going to be talking about the intensity of the 4th of July
1:07:42
celebrations on Amity Island, but before that, it's all about
1:07:46
the oceanographer. It is is indeed.
1:07:49
So, answering a call for help from Brody, young scientist Matt
1:07:52
Hooper arrives on the island and gets stuck right in, with some
1:07:55
key scenes coming immediately. So from Jaws be heading classes
1:07:59
combo Matt to Oz Matt, how does the rival go for you?
1:08:05
I love it when Hooper turns up. I mean, rocking that double
1:08:07
denim, that's an amazing look. How many people go pull that
1:08:10
off? Canadian tux.
1:08:11
Amazing. It is a great look.
1:08:13
I love it. Look at that scene where he's
1:08:15
got the blazer with the tide. Awesome.
1:08:18
Fantastic. He looks great.
1:08:19
This scene when he turns up, it's a really smart bit of
1:08:22
writing because it is absolute chaos when he arrives.
1:08:25
Brody 0 controller this situation, people just casually
1:08:29
wandering around the sticks of dynamite.
1:08:31
What is going on? All the boats.
1:08:34
Were about to crash into each other and Hooper brings the
1:08:36
immediate contrast because he starts sorting problems
1:08:39
immediately. Don't see louder fear.
1:08:41
Don't do this, don't do that. That's a tiger shark.
1:08:44
That's not where you after though, it's too small.
1:08:46
It's really funny how he instantly annoys the locals
1:08:48
though because he has more knowledge than them and they
1:08:50
instantly dislike him. That always gets the laugh out
1:08:53
of me. So confrontational.
1:08:55
Really confrontational, so it sets up his character
1:08:58
beautifully in not much time at all, in contrast to how out of
1:09:01
his depth broad he is, which is completely key to his
1:09:03
characters. Well, so the right in this, it's
1:09:05
really smart. It's a tiger shark.
1:09:07
Oh, I. Love that guy, he's amazing.
1:09:13
Obviously great Kingsbury in this scene, as well as Ben
1:09:15
Gardner. He's standing on the jetty when
1:09:17
Hoopa arrives and says hello and he goes, yeah, hello back, young
1:09:20
fella. Why does everyone on the island
1:09:22
talk like that? Why not?
1:09:26
But I'll really like the scene that comes right after this one,
1:09:28
where Hooper autopsies the body of Chrissy Watkins.
1:09:31
It's a great way to introduce the character.
1:09:33
We'll see that he's an expert and knows his stuff, figures out
1:09:35
what's going on in seconds. With it was a shark.
1:09:38
But there's vulnerability there as well, where the first time he
1:09:40
sees Chrissy, who bought us through a glass of water.
1:09:42
So he's seen all this stuff before and started this kind of
1:09:45
thing, but it's all been in textbooks.
1:09:47
So in that way, he's out of his depth as well.
1:09:49
Yes. And that Doctor Who was never
1:09:51
named needs to hang his head in shame for saying it wasn't a
1:09:53
shark. He has no.
1:09:55
Plays him, Robert never. He also played a doctor in
1:09:57
airplane. He did.
1:09:59
I'd rather have him in there, given his opinion than this guy.
1:10:01
She was, absolutely. No remorse.
1:10:03
I mean, the bring her remains out in a tray.
1:10:06
Yeah. In the train he's like, yeah,
1:10:08
propeller that. And when who arrives on the
1:10:14
island? Details will give a fisherman
1:10:16
not to go looking for the shark. And those fishermen were played
1:10:19
by real Martha Vineyards fishermen.
1:10:21
And when who asks if they can recommend a good restaurant, a
1:10:23
hotel in the island? One of them improvised the play.
1:10:26
Yeah. Just walk right ahead.
1:10:27
Yeah. That's class, yeah.
1:10:30
Brilliant line. And then Dreyfus improvised the
1:10:32
reply. Ha, they're all going to die.
1:10:33
Yeah, Which is a nice little exchange.
1:10:35
Brilliant. Yeah.
1:10:36
A lot of support and Casper played by Martha's Vineyard
1:10:39
residents as well. Herschel West It was a real
1:10:41
fisherman and players. Quint's first mate called
1:10:44
Salvatoria. That's the little fella.
1:10:46
He's called Salvatoria. Yeah, it's ridiculous.
1:10:49
Name for him, isn't it? He really looks like a
1:10:52
salvatoria like, doesn't he? He really looks like a W, I'll
1:10:55
tell you that much. And the guys who catch the shark
1:11:01
and argue with Hooper Roll from Martha's Vineyard.
1:11:03
Dick Young plays Pratt, the guy who says a who says called a
1:11:08
tiger shark. Yeah, he's meant to be a
1:11:11
fisherman, this guy, isn't he? How has he never heard of a
1:11:13
tiger shark? He's an absolute clown.
1:11:16
Maniac. Should have had been the autopsy
1:11:18
scene. It wasn't Jack in the river.
1:11:19
It was a shark. Oh, what?
1:11:24
After this scene, I love the moment where Hooper arrives at
1:11:27
Brodie's, 2 bottles of wine in his hand.
1:11:29
Red and white. Yeah.
1:11:30
Lovely. Lovely.
1:11:31
You need him to come to your party.
1:11:33
Yeah, great. Guess that's what I'm like when
1:11:34
I turn up. You just guzzle them from the
1:11:38
box. Yeah, it's the.
1:11:39
Thought that counts. I just think it shows how much
1:11:42
of A considerate person that he is.
1:11:43
He doesn't know what they like to drink.
1:11:45
I'll bring both. Yeah.
1:11:47
And here we get some back story for Hoopa.
1:11:48
We hear the story from when he was a kid and a thresher shark
1:11:51
at his boat, and he's been studying them ever since.
1:11:54
Yeah. It strengthens our opinion of
1:11:56
Hoopa and it gives us confidence in him.
1:11:58
Plus, it progresses the narrative because he segues in
1:12:01
or explaining that he's going to go to the institute tomorrow.
1:12:03
That isn't the shark that they're looking for.
1:12:05
All done very nicely. And there's some beautiful
1:12:07
character nuances here as well. I love the moment where Broadly
1:12:11
pours the wine and Hooper interrupts.
1:12:13
You know, you probably want to let that breathe.
1:12:15
Nothing. Nothing in this ice, in this red
1:12:18
wine as well. There's still ice in.
1:12:19
There and there's loads of exposition in here as well.
1:12:22
We found out that Brody can't stand the water and he's dishing
1:12:25
out all the facts and figures about shark attacks, but you
1:12:28
really don't feel it's been rammed down your throat.
1:12:31
I like that. Yeah, yeah, Spielberg loves
1:12:33
this, doesn't he? Family meal, father and son
1:12:36
right away stretching. No Mashed potato in this though.
1:12:40
The mashed potatoes like a shark fin.
1:12:45
But right of his St. and the film needs it at this point.
1:12:47
I think it's like a bit of quiet respite after all the sharks,
1:12:50
the shouting and the people getting slapped.
1:12:52
So it's a great scene. But who walks into a stranger's
1:12:56
family home in meal time, plunks himself down at the table, grabs
1:12:59
a plate of somebody else's food and just goes, thanks very much,
1:13:02
Don't mind if I do like who I do you.
1:13:04
Don't even know what it is. Yeah.
1:13:07
Fucking freezing as well as being there for ages.
1:13:09
Only a character played by Richard Dreyfuss can do that
1:13:11
without instantly being turfed out.
1:13:13
Definitely. Yeah.
1:13:14
There is some nice exposition there as well, where Brody asked
1:13:16
Cooper to verify a couple of shark facts, like the
1:13:18
territoriality theory, and he's on the bottom at this point.
1:13:21
Brody, isn't he? Yeah.
1:13:23
Booze and hair, pint of wine, some other dice.
1:13:28
Johnny Depp megapoint. Yeah, and Brody, son, in the
1:13:36
same Sean. He's played by Jane Melo in the
1:13:39
scene where Brody and Tron just pull faces at each other.
1:13:42
That wasn't in the script. Mellow just started doing it to
1:13:44
Shyder between takes and when try to kind of give Spielberg
1:13:48
the elbow to say what he was doing.
1:13:49
He loved it and filmed it. Yeah, it's great.
1:13:51
It's such a beautiful. It is.
1:13:53
It is. Beautiful.
1:13:55
Of course. Spielberg loved it.
1:13:56
Classic. Yeah.
1:13:57
Yeah, I think Spielberg watched that behind the camera and
1:13:59
thought, I'm going to have like 17 kids.
1:14:03
That's my career from now on following.
1:14:05
Some stories. And again, narratively, we don't
1:14:08
need that moment, but it's a better film with it, I think.
1:14:12
Definitely gives it a lot of heart.
1:14:13
It does, definitely, yeah. And fear when he goes out in the
1:14:16
end because you know how he relates to his family.
1:14:18
It's it's so important. Yeah, it is.
1:14:20
Oh, it is. The scene directly after this is
1:14:22
when Brody and Hooper got a cut open the tiger shark that Pratt
1:14:25
course. There were at the times feel
1:14:30
though, want to direct a Bond movie.
1:14:32
He was desperate for it and twice had made unsuccessful
1:14:35
pitches to Coby Broccoli. But despite the rejection,
1:14:38
Spielberg made a reference to Bond in this scene when Hooper
1:14:41
pulls out a license plate from the belly of the beast and the
1:14:44
registration number begins with double O 7.
1:14:46
Nice, I would have put some broccoli in the stomach as well
1:14:49
to be fair. It's also registered as
1:14:54
Louisiana 73, the license plate which was the second release
1:14:57
year of Live and Let Die, and that license plate shows up
1:15:00
again in Deep Blue Sea later on. Oh, really?
1:15:03
Yes. And I said, well, yeah.
1:15:06
But sorry Spielberg, I've got guy.
1:15:07
How long? Too late, but imagine Spielberg
1:15:13
and Sir Roger the dream team. Oh my God.
1:15:16
Last, John. Don't even plant that in my
1:15:18
mind. I'm not sleep for weeks.
1:15:21
I mean, the moment after this, when they find out that they
1:15:23
need more and you have this incredible moment that stays
1:15:27
with me longer than I think anything else in the film.
1:15:30
And it's a bit that I remember the most, and it's just so well
1:15:34
done and so powerfully done. And it's such a horror movie
1:15:36
moment before these kind of things actually existed.
1:15:41
You have the jumpscape. But I think sports Mealberg does
1:15:44
here is he really draws it out. It's the musical sting that
1:15:48
comes with the appearance of the head.
1:15:49
That's the thing, isn't it? Isn't it?
1:15:51
I watched it again and you're actually just sit and watch
1:15:54
that, but you go. Jesus Christ.
1:15:55
All right, Stephen, that's too much.
1:15:59
It's too long. It's a damn warming.
1:16:02
What the fuck? But I think it really taps into
1:16:06
what happens later on in the film where they go to Hooper and
1:16:08
say, like, OK, so where's this tooth?
1:16:10
And he dropped the tooth. And we as an audience go, would
1:16:13
you have dropped that tooth? And you go absolutely,
1:16:17
definitely would have dropped that tooth.
1:16:19
Then you go, yeah, well, that's fair enough.
1:16:20
We're going to have to progress the story now.
1:16:22
And every time he goes down off the board, when he's got no
1:16:25
breathing apparatus, he's just, he's just like, I'll be back in
1:16:27
a minute. What you doing?
1:16:29
I can't even go under the water and just think, right, I'll be
1:16:32
fine. I'm not going to go and look at
1:16:33
a boat that might have somebody's dead fucking body in
1:16:36
it without any kind of oxygen or any kind of aid whatsoever.
1:16:41
But I think the reaction shot, the way that it's cut together,
1:16:44
the way that it's done, is perfectly done.
1:16:46
It stays with you. It's in the right moment of the
1:16:48
film and it really elevates everything and it moves
1:16:51
everything forward just in the best way.
1:16:54
Yeah, I love how it's shot. It's like pitch dark with just
1:16:56
the light of the boat and that kind of, Yeah, fluorescent
1:16:59
effect under the water. Yeah.
1:17:00
The lighting's amazing, yeah. And it's a great jump scare.
1:17:02
They set it up really well by broadly saying that's Ben
1:17:05
Gardner's boat, who we already know knows his stuff.
1:17:07
Yeah. So that makes it uneasy to see
1:17:08
his boat like that. Yeah.
1:17:10
And the scare still catches me out when I watch it.
1:17:12
I know. I don't know when it's gonna
1:17:14
happen. It's different every time I
1:17:16
watch. It Yeah.
1:17:17
I think it is those strings, Wesley, that come in.
1:17:19
Yeah, that like Screech is the head appears.
1:17:22
Because that's so prolonged, you can't kind of get your breath.
1:17:25
Yeah, this ones where they do it really well.
1:17:27
But I mean, this is the first one that I saw and I was like,
1:17:29
fucking. I don't want to say that again.
1:17:30
It's right up there for sure it is.
1:17:32
Well, the moment was shot after filming, it actually wrapped,
1:17:35
but you and test screen. And Spielberg thought, I think I
1:17:38
can get one more big scare in there.
1:17:40
And he went universal, who unsurprisedly considered all the
1:17:43
problems, didn't want to spend any more money on the film.
1:17:46
So he had to put in $3000 of his own money and shouted at the
1:17:50
House of Verna Fields. And she was the editor on
1:17:52
chores, right? And there was her house, because
1:17:54
she had a pill in the back. Yeah, fucking.
1:17:56
Hell, brilliant. Imagine after all the issues
1:17:58
having the cojones to go back to universal and go it's still not
1:18:01
finished. Can have some more money.
1:18:05
Three grand and 10 pints of milk.
1:18:09
Yeah, yeah. They threw a VAT of milk into
1:18:10
the pool to make it look murkier.
1:18:11
Yeah. And Verner Field said that this
1:18:13
was her favorite moment that she edited, like seeing the
1:18:15
audiences react to it. Oh, it must have been brilliant
1:18:17
that. The footage, it's incredible.
1:18:19
It all matches. Yeah, I kind of think of the
1:18:21
film without this in it. Absolutely not.
1:18:23
It wouldn't move forward as fast as it does.
1:18:24
Yeah, it really needs it. Because you're not expecting a
1:18:27
head either, are you? You expecting a shark maybe?
1:18:29
No, you're not. But that's a testament that
1:18:30
Spielberg knows exactly what he needs after he's directed it to
1:18:33
make the film move forward. Yeah, there's every so often he
1:18:36
just drops in these big moments which are just like bang, like
1:18:38
the Dolly zoom and then this, and he just catches you off
1:18:40
guard. Yeah, and when we see Ben
1:18:42
Gardner, that isn't Craig Kingsbury.
1:18:45
It's a model which was based on the mould of Kingsbury's.
1:18:47
Head thankfully it's good he set off 3 grand.
1:18:54
Yeah, wishing his father never met his mother by that point,
1:18:59
but the right decision to add that scene, surely.
1:19:02
Oh, without. That was Shadow of a doubt.
1:19:03
Yeah, I kind of think of it without it.
1:19:05
Iconic now. And Speaking of them with us, we
1:19:07
haven't taught too much about the matriarch of the Brody
1:19:10
household yet. That's Ellen Brody, played by
1:19:12
Lori and Gary. Yeah.
1:19:13
What do we think of her in the film?
1:19:15
I think she's really good. I mean, it's obviously a small
1:19:17
part. There's no real room in the
1:19:19
narrative for her to go anywhere else.
1:19:20
But what she has, she makes the most of, and she is that real
1:19:24
bedrock in Brodie's life, and it is great.
1:19:27
We've just talked about the same way.
1:19:28
When Hooper invites himself over your husband, Tom, I'd really
1:19:31
like to talk to him. Yes, so would I.
1:19:34
Really funny. So just a very warm and likeable
1:19:36
presence in the film. Yeah, I think she's good.
1:19:38
She hadn't been in the film before, but she was married to
1:19:41
Sid Sheinberg, the head of Universal, and that's how she
1:19:43
got the park. Spielberg said he could imagine
1:19:45
her being married to Roy Schneider, which I'm sure
1:19:47
Sheinberg was over the moon to hear.
1:19:50
Yeah, Yeah. Give us some more money, yeah.
1:19:53
Exactly. Yeah, I.
1:19:54
Would imagine Dreyfus was trying to get in there with her as
1:19:57
well. So with who?
1:19:59
By joining in the film, our holy friend that he is complete.
1:20:02
And Hoopa's straight into the thick of the action with one of
1:20:05
the most memorable jump scares in film.
1:20:06
Oh. Yes, yeah.
1:20:08
One of the greatest. Well, I'll never forget it.
1:20:12
Independence Day, Just when Mayor Vaughan thought it was
1:20:15
safe to go back in the water, he was wrong.
1:20:17
Yeah. The crowds to send on Amity
1:20:19
Beach and it all goes off. A shark based hoax causes a
1:20:23
Stampede to the shore and then the real shark strikes in the
1:20:25
pond. Brody's son Michael is dragged
1:20:28
from the estuarine shark and Aurora is mauled to death.
1:20:31
Yeah, we've got a panic on our hands on the 4th of July, don't
1:20:34
we? Might?
1:20:34
Certainly do. How does it go for you?
1:20:37
I love this scene and I love the introduction to it all where
1:20:40
they have that argument with Larry.
1:20:42
First name terms. I've ordered for the guy all
1:20:49
right against my board. My tongue's bleeding a bit of
1:20:53
that hard, but Jonah, I jump in, didn't.
1:20:55
Yeah, Larry, the mayor, obviously.
1:20:58
This is certainly what an incredible director Spielberg
1:21:00
is, because this scene, it's a lot of exposition.
1:21:04
So the way that Spielberg makes this interesting is he does it
1:21:06
in a wanna and it doesn't call attention to itself either.
1:21:10
It's only after when you sit and you think about it and you study
1:21:13
it like what you have to do, you go.
1:21:15
He didn't could want to any reaction shot in that whole
1:21:18
conversation. And it's incredibly
1:21:21
choreographed the way that Brody Hooper, the mare move around the
1:21:25
screen in a very subtle manner. The mare starts off in the
1:21:28
middle, so he's getting it in both ears.
1:21:30
Then Hooper moves around in front of life.
1:21:32
He's got them both in his face, broad.
1:21:34
He walks off, he comes back. And the way these three all hit
1:21:38
their marks perfectly and the way they move in precise
1:21:41
coordination with that camera movement to get framed under the
1:21:44
Billboard perfectly, perfectly. It's so subtle, but it's such a
1:21:50
brilliant scene by Spielberg. That is direction, that's 100%
1:21:54
directed really is. That's actors, that's camera
1:21:56
movements, that's everything. Perfect.
1:21:58
Great dialogue scene. At this point I don't know what
1:22:01
Larry's playing at. He's one scene away from saying
1:22:03
make Amity great again. How do you know John?
1:22:08
But I like Cooper, where he's like, you don't ignore this
1:22:10
particular problem until it swims up and bites you on the
1:22:12
ass. That would have been a great
1:22:14
scene with the man. Really.
1:22:16
Carry on, Amity. Be like the same, probably the
1:22:25
longest shot in the film. It's like 3 minutes long and one
1:22:28
tracking shot. The blocking is unbelievable.
1:22:31
How we end on the Welcome to Amity poster and the characters
1:22:33
in the frame and like that montage.
1:22:35
After all this, all the holiday makers turning up.
1:22:37
It's all like sunshine, ice creams and people laughing and
1:22:41
then cutting the Brody miserable pint the wine.
1:22:45
Mega Pint. The Welcome Nominee poster was
1:22:49
designed to summarize the plot up to that point in the story.
1:22:52
It shows all the shark deaths that have happened.
1:22:54
It features a young blonde like Chrissy Watkins who's swimming
1:22:57
on a Lil or like Alex Kintner. And on the horizon we see a
1:23:01
fishing boat like Ben Gardner's. Interestingly, the model for the
1:23:04
poster was the girlfriend of Brian De Palma, who was great
1:23:07
friends with Spielberg. Nice.
1:23:09
Yeah. The movie brats.
1:23:11
Might touch that it's a good poster.
1:23:13
It is. Yeah, it is.
1:23:13
It's great. And De Palma was doing all right
1:23:15
for himself, wasn't he? And then he moved from her to
1:23:19
Nancy Allen, who he's not doing too bad considering he's oil
1:23:23
painting. Talent overlooks.
1:23:26
Let's look inside. I mean this whole sequence when
1:23:30
the kids have this hoax and I could just see myself doing this
1:23:34
and every time this happens, like maybe brother would
1:23:37
definitely have done this at that age and exactly the same.
1:23:39
And I'll be the one like. Hey baby, do it and.
1:23:43
That'll be me like, but it would have been my plan.
1:23:46
But the editing here is absolutely fantastic.
1:23:50
I think it's just pandemonium and the way that it's just
1:23:53
straight. The camera as well, the reaction
1:23:54
shots are straight to come. We don't see what the reactant
1:23:57
do, so we don't see the Hawks until it's too late.
1:24:00
The guy who pushes the kids off the inflated 1 jumps on himself.
1:24:03
Yeah. What a piece he's.
1:24:06
Awful, He's. Horrible.
1:24:08
That horrible tan line is he's like, these shorts are coming
1:24:11
down like that's. Unnecessary, but there's that.
1:24:13
Wonderful moment where the woman's like, grasping a child
1:24:17
and there's this yellow helicopter comes behind it.
1:24:19
Oh yeah. And she's screaming.
1:24:21
And I was like, this is like an Irwin Allen film.
1:24:24
It's like a disaster film. Ruined to this boy, isn't she?
1:24:26
She's just like, yeah, And I think, is that too much?
1:24:29
And I don't think it is, but it's put right in the middle of
1:24:32
everything else. So everything else kind of
1:24:33
bookends that moment. And the thing that struck me
1:24:35
with this as well, because Spielberg's in the Blues
1:24:37
Brothers. And you know, when they turn
1:24:39
around and you to see the guys just like pointing the guns at
1:24:42
them, yes, yes. I'm like, that's like the end of
1:24:44
the Blues Brothers, but they land.
1:24:45
This is when I'm going to make this like Jaws, but I'm going to
1:24:47
have 1000 people doing it. I was wondering where you were
1:24:50
going with brothers there, to be honest.
1:24:52
A great, great moment, great editing, great great pace and
1:24:58
little shit. And see me doing that, little
1:25:01
bastards. Little bastards.
1:25:03
Yeah. I think in terms of the idea,
1:25:05
like a couple of kids pulling a hoax, this feels like something
1:25:08
that could have easily been in George 3D.
1:25:10
Like potentially rubbish and played for laughs.
1:25:12
Yeah. But yeah, I love it because the
1:25:14
execution is just so good. Because you never see it.
1:25:16
You never see how bad it is. Exactly, Yeah.
1:25:18
It's it's just reaction shot. I like the helicopter shot.
1:25:21
Does the patrol the beach? Although to be fair, if I'm on a
1:25:23
beach where there's helicopters flying overhead and about 10
1:25:26
boards full of guys with guns and the chief of police, yeah,
1:25:29
looks like he's gonna have a panic attack.
1:25:30
I'm not going for a swim. Yeah, I'm sound, to be fair.
1:25:33
And the role in there, the whole towns in there, it's crazy.
1:25:38
But the shots with the swimmers are great.
1:25:40
I love the ones on the water line where the frames half below
1:25:42
and half above the water. Yeah, Yeah.
1:25:44
Classic. Yeah.
1:25:45
Yeah, and Spielberg definitely used that experience, the game,
1:25:47
and he shot the DD landing sequence and Saving Private
1:25:49
Ryan, I think. Yeah.
1:25:50
But by this point in the film, like every scene is massive.
1:25:53
We go from the jumpscape straight to the argument with
1:25:55
the May, straight to this, straight to the pond.
1:25:58
It's like relentless. Yeah, yeah.
1:26:00
Well, you mentioned the pond there, John.
1:26:02
I think this is masterful stuff by Spielberg.
1:26:05
Yeah, much like broadly, our attention is taken by the Hawks.
1:26:08
And that's such a a sigh of relief when we found out that it
1:26:10
isn't a shark, even though they are little shits.
1:26:13
But when that girl cries shark and we're thinking maybe it's
1:26:16
another hoax. But then there's that incredible
1:26:19
shot where the music cuts out, Yeah.
1:26:21
And we see the shark fins silently gliding into the water.
1:26:25
Yeah, that is so fast as well. Yeah, the honesty in her voice
1:26:28
as well. Yeah.
1:26:30
Shark. Yeah, it's.
1:26:31
Just like crackles, doesn't it? It's perfect.
1:26:33
Yeah, it's great. Short reminds me of Basil Folly
1:26:35
shouting fire. Fire.
1:26:43
Thank you for ruining jaws for us, John.
1:26:45
Jesus Christ. Slapping the shark with a branch
1:26:48
from a dream. Going to give you a damn good
1:26:50
thrashing. Throwing Manuel into the pond
1:26:54
have. Him.
1:26:57
So that shot with the shark going into the water with Sean
1:27:00
in the foreground completely oblivious.
1:27:03
Brody is so pretty bad with this shark that he just let Sean roam
1:27:06
around Amity like a hobo child. It's outrageous stuff.
1:27:10
And the pun maybe for all ladies, but that overhead shot
1:27:14
of the shark under the water is chilling.
1:27:16
Stuff. Awesome.
1:27:17
It's massive, isn't it? It's amazing and it just floats
1:27:21
very, very quietly, very, very slowly.
1:27:23
I think it's the first real glimpse that we get of the shark
1:27:26
it. Is, yeah.
1:27:27
The scene then cuts away and then cuts back to an absolute
1:27:31
massacre. Bloodbath.
1:27:32
The Rose screaming and there's the shock in all its glory.
1:27:35
And it's only three seconds, Yeah, yeah.
1:27:37
But it's enough to strike absolute fear.
1:27:39
And that severed leg is the cherry on the top of the.
1:27:41
Team. But how weird is that guy who?
1:27:43
You guys are gay. He's a fucking creep in it.
1:27:47
He deserves it, really, doesn't he?
1:27:49
What you told the kids for What's the matter with you?
1:27:52
Just one guy in a rowing boat, yeah.
1:27:54
Fucking really strange friends me like someone in the marine
1:27:57
park it's. Really.
1:27:57
Straight. So, yeah, we get the panic in
1:28:00
the Stampede and then the calm when they realize it's a hoax,
1:28:03
and then that moment where Brody realizes it's not over yet.
1:28:05
So Spielberg has to, like, ramp it back up, but he does it with
1:28:08
the score. And that shot of Brody, like,
1:28:09
picking up pace as he runs through the crowd to the pond.
1:28:11
That's really well done that. Yeah.
1:28:13
I love that shot of the fin coming towards the roar as well.
1:28:16
That's brilliant. Yeah, yeah, just a shame.
1:28:19
The roar is just so fucking weird.
1:28:23
Well, Spielberg actually torn down the final cut from what he
1:28:26
originally filmed. There was a shot of the roar
1:28:29
after he's being killed where the shark is swimming along with
1:28:32
his body in its mouth. But it's been a bit thought it
1:28:34
was too much and removed it. I mean just a bit.
1:28:38
If he was like, hey, are you OK? Yeah.
1:28:43
You can see that shot online and it is pretty brutal, but I mean
1:28:46
what we say is still pretty brutal.
1:28:48
I shot of his leg after it's been bitten off.
1:28:50
This was a PG I. Know, I know.
1:28:53
It's crazy. Different times and we've came
1:28:56
through the middle unscathed. Fake sharks, real sharks, near
1:29:00
deaths and actual deaths, and Spielberg in control of all of
1:29:03
it. On top form.
1:29:06
Last of all, Yep, definitely the crew.
1:29:14
Spielberg in control of Jaws, but he had some big people
1:29:16
making major contributions behind the scenes, too, and
1:29:19
that's who we're focusing on now.
1:29:21
We're going to talk about composer John Williams and the
1:29:24
key people on the film responsible for the visuals.
1:29:26
We're starting, though, as we usually do, with the writers.
1:29:31
So the credited screenwriters on Jaws were Peter Benchley and
1:29:34
Carl Gottlieb. Peter Benchley had written the
1:29:36
novel on which the film was based.
1:29:38
This was his first screenwriting credit, and Karl Gottlieb,
1:29:41
writing Korea, had been mostly in TV comedy on shows like The
1:29:44
Smothers Brothers, Comedy Hour, All in the Family and The Odd
1:29:48
Couple. Perfect for Jaws, right?
1:29:51
So this was his first screenplay credit too?
1:29:54
Yeah literally 0 screen writing experience on Jaws then Westie
1:29:58
but doesn't show how was the writing on Jaws.
1:30:01
I don't think that shows at all. You wouldn't tell that.
1:30:03
I think it's based on a very exciting novel.
1:30:05
I think a lot of people have read that and bought into it.
1:30:07
I've never read it myself because I don't understand how
1:30:10
it would translate into a novel. Like the shark pops out with the
1:30:12
water. Like I don't know how that.
1:30:14
Would be scary. I don't know if it would be as
1:30:16
good of a novel than it is, because it's a very visual film.
1:30:18
It is. I think a lot of the dialogue
1:30:20
works and I think a lot of especially Brodie's character,
1:30:23
when you find out that he's just got there, he's literally a fish
1:30:25
out of water. He doesn't like the island, he
1:30:27
doesn't like he's never been on a boat.
1:30:29
But it's very subtly done, just doesn't really smack you on the
1:30:31
head. I think Hooper's character is
1:30:33
really well written. I think Quint's very well
1:30:35
written. But what strikes me, and every
1:30:37
time I watch it, it does feel like it's a game of two Hobbs.
1:30:39
It does feel like it's kind of two films, which is what
1:30:42
Spielberg does all the time. This would work really well as a
1:30:44
theatre show, which it does because that's out there now and
1:30:48
you know that looked at the horizon the Brody does, and
1:30:50
there's that slow push through and you just see it's like this
1:30:53
is war now. I just feel like that's where
1:30:54
the curtains are going to shut, and it's like intermission.
1:30:58
And that's how I feel about the right.
1:30:59
And I feel it's done on purpose. I think it's paced really,
1:31:01
really well. I think the dialogue's really,
1:31:03
really good. And I think all of the action
1:31:05
sequences are just left to the visuals, as there should be.
1:31:07
And Spielberg takes over with that.
1:31:09
And yeah, it all works perfectly for me.
1:31:11
Yeah, I think for something as famously chaotic as this was in
1:31:15
terms of last minute revisions, last minute editions, it's
1:31:18
remarkable how well it stands up as a piece writing.
1:31:21
And it is the solid framework on which everything else rests.
1:31:24
Gives you very memorable dialogue, very memorable
1:31:26
characters with believable arcs. I think the horror is rooted in
1:31:30
believability. There's not one moment where I
1:31:32
think, well, I can't believe that would happen, which takes
1:31:35
out the film. There's none of that.
1:31:36
And the reason it terrified so many people back then and gave
1:31:40
them the genuine fear of going into the water is because of how
1:31:43
believable the scenario is in terms of the writing, something
1:31:46
which gets increasingly thrown out with the sequels, which
1:31:49
we'll talk about in a bit. And I think part of that
1:31:51
believability is how petty Amity is, which always strikes me
1:31:54
broadly on the beach, trying to keep an eye on everyone.
1:31:56
But then the guys hustling them about Parkinson's outside his
1:31:59
house. Yeah, hurry.
1:32:00
Coming up to him, giving him grief.
1:32:01
But I'm not liking the water. Karate chopping the fences.
1:32:04
Karate, chopping the fences, all like petty shit, throwing a
1:32:08
body. And there is this sense
1:32:10
throughout the film that probably just isn't really
1:32:11
accepted that's in the right. And I think that adds a lot of
1:32:14
weight to the film as well. Yeah, yeah, I think the writing
1:32:17
is good. There are some changes, but the
1:32:18
narrative mostly comes from the book and I think it's a really
1:32:21
good story. It bills, it's logical.
1:32:23
The main character in Brody is well written in terms of his arc
1:32:26
and motivations. Yeah.
1:32:27
And Quentin, who bar I think aren't as fleshed out but or as
1:32:30
written as they need to be to make it all work.
1:32:33
What I would say is that I think this is a screenplay tailor made
1:32:36
for Steven Spielberg. He likes a solid three act story
1:32:40
or six acts, according to Westie.
1:32:41
Obviously. Thank you.
1:32:44
Strong character arc, ideally some family drama and large
1:32:47
scale spectacle every 20 or 30 pages.
1:32:50
And George has all that. I mean, Spielberg wasn't yet
1:32:52
Spielberg by this point. So Benchley and Gottlieb kind of
1:32:55
been writing for that. So I do suspect Spielberg
1:32:57
influence, especially in Gottlieb, quite a lot.
1:32:59
Yeah. And also, not to be too harsh,
1:33:01
but the best piece of writing in the film that we'll talk about
1:33:03
later wasn't done by Benchley or Gottlieb.
1:33:06
Yeah, I agree with that totally. I mean, is the script as good as
1:33:09
the reputation of the film is big?
1:33:12
I don't think it is. It's elevated by a great cast.
1:33:14
It's elevated by one of the most famous scores ever.
1:33:16
I'm it's elevated by the talent of Spielberg.
1:33:18
I mean, if you've got Spielberg and William, it's both
1:33:20
delivering some of their best ever work.
1:33:22
You just need ABM out with like some word scroll on it and it'll
1:33:25
probably turn out all right. Yeah, it'd be fine.
1:33:27
Yeah, if anyone else had directed this script it would be
1:33:29
nowhere near as good. Yeah.
1:33:31
I mean, I'm not saying that's what the script is by any means,
1:33:32
because I do think it's a very strong adaptation of a best
1:33:35
selling novel. Yeah, and give Spielberg the
1:33:37
perfect platform to go and do his thing.
1:33:39
So the writers do definitely play their part for me.
1:33:42
Yeah, totally agree. I think all the beats in the
1:33:44
story work. I think the dialogue is great.
1:33:47
It often gets characterised as a horror film and whether you
1:33:50
agree with that or not is a different matter.
1:33:52
But just like most great horror movies, take away the horror
1:33:55
element and I think you've still got yourself a compelling story
1:33:58
in this screenplay. Yeah, take the shark element
1:34:01
away. You've still got a fish out of
1:34:03
water story with Brody, no pun intended.
1:34:05
Well, you know, I did write it, so there was porn intended I
1:34:08
suppose, and you've got a family being impacted as a result of
1:34:13
that. The three main characters are
1:34:15
very well written, Three different personalities leading
1:34:17
to a fraud dynamic in the second-half of the film and a
1:34:20
wonderful push and pull power struggle between Quint and
1:34:23
Hooper. A push up and pull.
1:34:24
A power struggle between Dreyfus and Shaw.
1:34:26
You. Put these characters into any
1:34:29
pressure cooker situation at trading floor on Wall Street.
1:34:31
Two detectives on the beat. It works just as well for me.
1:34:35
So although Jaws is all about the shark, it wouldn't be as
1:34:40
well remembered if the right and didn't support and lay solid
1:34:42
foundations for the central plot.
1:34:44
Yeah, so in 1964, a fisherman called Frank Mundus made the
1:34:48
news when he caught a 17 foot shark off Montauk.
1:34:51
And that was what inspired Pete Benchley to write a novel about
1:34:54
a killer shark, obviously Jaws, which was published in 1974.
1:34:58
He was a huge best seller. See, Universal bought the right
1:35:01
and the high. Benchley 2 adapted himself and
1:35:03
he did write a few drafts but Spielberg wasn't happy with any
1:35:06
of them and kept asking for changes but eventually got to
1:35:09
the point by doing 3 drafts and just told Spielberg he taken it
1:35:12
as far as he could and subsequently left the project.
1:35:14
Yeah, is there a father and son? Relationship.
1:35:18
Not good enough. Not good enough.
1:35:21
I want the moment whether at the table right?
1:35:24
Yeah, he told Spielberg. He was written out, apparently
1:35:26
not gotten. And at that point, Howard
1:35:28
Suckler came in. He was a playwright who'd won a
1:35:30
Pulitzer Prize for the Great White Hope.
1:35:32
So Spielberg was like, great white hope, great white shark.
1:35:35
This is meant to be. He's my man.
1:35:38
So I wrote one draft and left. Spielberg was young, but he knew
1:35:42
what you liked. Yeah.
1:35:43
Great White. That was it.
1:35:45
And Spielberg thought one of the problems with the script was
1:35:48
that it lacked any humor. And he was friends with Kyle
1:35:50
Gottlieb, who played his trade as a comedy writer, so you asked
1:35:53
him if he'd be interested in working on Jaws.
1:35:56
Gottlieb said that when Spielberg sent him the script,
1:35:58
that had only one note written on the front of it, which was
1:36:01
eviscerated. It lacks comedy.
1:36:04
So tear the whole thing apart. Yeah, like we said, Gottlieb and
1:36:09
Spielberg were rewriting and making changes constantly
1:36:11
throughout production, so it all seems to have been pretty
1:36:13
chaotic. Yeah, and Gottlieb had one eye
1:36:16
on Dreyfus. And with the ladies, obviously.
1:36:18
Obviously. Obviously.
1:36:19
Yeah, so as you might expect, there were quite a few changes
1:36:23
from book to screen. So in the book, famously Hooper
1:36:26
has an affair with Ellen Brody and I was one of the first
1:36:28
changes Spielberg made and Hooper dice at the end as well.
1:36:33
Yeah, that change is definitely for the best.
1:36:35
Imagine Hooper steaming in with Ellen doing it on the dinner
1:36:37
table. Awful.
1:36:40
Flying with red and white wine. Anyone eating this?
1:36:48
I mean, it's pretty awful in the book, too.
1:36:49
There's a line in there where Hooper asks Ellen if she's got a
1:36:52
tight one. I mean, that's a Hooper I'll
1:36:54
happily watch get eaten by a shark.
1:36:56
Are you joking? No.
1:36:57
No, that line's in the book. Yeah, that's ridiculous.
1:37:00
Horrific writing bestseller. 70s social club Banda that isn't.
1:37:06
It Casey, do you see channel blinds?
1:37:07
It is. What isn't in the book, though,
1:37:11
is the USS Indianapolis speech. In fact, there's no back story
1:37:15
for Quint at all, although we do find out his first name, which
1:37:18
is Sam. Yeah, so the film has the
1:37:21
Indianapolis speech. The book has Sam.
1:37:23
That team is trade off, doesn't it?
1:37:25
Yeah, yeah, I'm happy with that trade off.
1:37:27
Yeah, it's not, as Sam knows he. He's definitely not as sunlight.
1:37:30
I am Sam with Quint. Also in the film the mass
1:37:36
motivation for keeping the beaches open is just for
1:37:39
economic reasons, but in the book he's under control of the
1:37:41
mob and they're lean on him to not shut down the beaches.
1:37:45
Again, ridiculous. Yeah, too complex to the screen.
1:37:48
That's complex. I'd love it if Pesci turned up
1:37:49
though it is furious. Said him he was on the truck.
1:37:53
Yeah, having the sharp in the. Eye.
1:37:55
I'm going to borrow this. What's it up it's?
1:37:58
Spin. No, it's spin.
1:38:01
Oh yeah, the financial like capitalism theme does it all, I
1:38:03
think. Yeah.
1:38:04
Yeah, of course it does. The mob rolling up would be
1:38:06
ludicrous. Like some like it hot spots in
1:38:10
there. Spots.
1:38:11
Like Tommy guns? And the book ends differently,
1:38:16
obviously. In the film probably shoots the
1:38:18
air canister to blow it up, but in the book it just succumbs to
1:38:21
its wounds and just dies. Climactic perfectly.
1:38:24
Climactic yeah, just dies in like sinks in the book after all
1:38:27
the beatings it's taken, which yeah, a bit of an anti climax.
1:38:30
They can't really do that in the film though, could you?
1:38:32
You would need something. Else to explain that, wouldn't
1:38:34
you? You can't just go Oh well, and
1:38:36
then roll over. You need some kind of spectacle
1:38:39
for the end of this. Exactly.
1:38:40
You need some big moment. We mentioned earlier that Carl
1:38:42
Gottlieb appears in a few scenes in the film, and Pete eventually
1:38:45
has a cameo or two. He plays the TV news reporter at
1:38:48
the start of the 4th of July sequence.
1:38:50
Who says? And it's a lovely line.
1:38:52
There is a cloud in the shape of a killer shark, which I think is
1:38:56
where Sharknado came from, to be honest.
1:39:01
Influence is all over. Well, yeah, Benchley's wife and
1:39:03
daughter are on the beach in that scene as well.
1:39:06
But right, right. There were similar scenes that
1:39:08
Benchley filmed as the Reporter 1 where we interviewed with
1:39:10
Hooper and one where he's like chasing Brody around the beach
1:39:13
trying to get an interview. Well, good.
1:39:15
Brilliant Benny Hill. Like Benny Hill?
1:39:19
I'd like to just turn up, just be like, hi, I'm Ed Winchester
1:39:22
and let's disappear. So one benefit of many of
1:39:27
becoming an ATRM patron is that we answer your questions on the
1:39:30
show, and we have the first of those questions now, and it
1:39:33
comes from Helen Jackson. Hello, Helen.
1:39:36
Hi, Helen. Hello, Helen.
1:39:37
So Helen says Karl Gottlieb's The Jaws Log about the Making of
1:39:40
Jaws is a classic of the genre and a personal favorite.
1:39:44
What are the books about film would you recommend?
1:39:47
PS My husband is from South Shields and encourages me to
1:39:49
listen to the pot around our small baby to immerse her in the
1:39:52
accent. Wow.
1:39:53
Always happy to oblige as always, Ellen, but what do you
1:39:56
think, Luke? Great books about film.
1:39:59
Well, none. Obviously.
1:40:00
We're talking about baby. I have a full bookshelf, but
1:40:04
that's just for sure. No, I actually have read quite a
1:40:07
few books about the making of movies.
1:40:09
Bullshit. No Nonfiction, none of that.
1:40:12
None. Of the made-up shit.
1:40:14
You've got classics like Easy Rider, Raging Bulls by Peter
1:40:17
Biskins. Yeah, Damn.
1:40:18
Dirty Pictures is in a similar vein from the same author about
1:40:21
the 90s indie movie scene, which I like.
1:40:23
Yeah, it's great. But the two that I really,
1:40:24
really like are The Final Cut by Stephen Bach.
1:40:27
It's an astonishing behind the scenes look at Chamino's
1:40:30
Heaven's Gate. Nice.
1:40:31
The madness behind that. Lovely.
1:40:33
And William Goldman's adventures in the screen trade, which is
1:40:36
like an inside look at the movie making process.
1:40:38
And Goldmans really peels back the curtain on celebrity and
1:40:41
movie stardom from his kind of unique perspective.
1:40:45
Very nice. Do my devs?
1:40:47
Yeah, this is right up my straight this type of question.
1:40:49
I love a good make and all of and I think the best ones
1:40:51
usually wear. The production is really
1:40:53
chaotic, so a really good one recently was Blood, Sweat and
1:40:56
Chrome by Kyle Buchanan, which is the story of Fury Rd.
1:41:00
Yeah, that's really good. It is.
1:41:01
It's very honestly talks to everyone and everyone's very
1:41:05
open about how chaotic that production was.
1:41:07
You know, the two leads were practically trying to kill each
1:41:09
other in the desert for real. So that's a fantastic read.
1:41:12
Brilliant Future Noir by Paul M Salmon.
1:41:15
That's on Blade Runner and that is exhaustive.
1:41:18
Yeah. Yeah.
1:41:19
There is nothing left uncovered about the making a Blade Runner
1:41:22
in that. That's fantastic read and the
1:41:24
last one, one I read a couple of years ago, you've got read On
1:41:26
You by Clark Collis, which is about Shaun of the Dead.
1:41:29
Right. Great.
1:41:30
I think a lot of people don't know this, but again, it was
1:41:32
quite a tense production. Wright and Peg weren't taken
1:41:35
seriously by a lot of people. When they're trying to make that
1:41:37
again, it infuse absolutely everyone and it's very honest.
1:41:40
That's well worth the read as well.
1:41:41
Nice. Very nice.
1:41:43
I think Helen's right. The Jaws log is a classic of the
1:41:45
genre. It's probably the best making of
1:41:47
book that I've read. I'd also throw in Space Odyssey
1:41:50
by Michael Benson, about the making of 2001.
1:41:52
A Space Odyssey. Yeah.
1:41:53
And the making of Superman, the movie by David Michael Petro.
1:41:57
They are the right greatest making of story of all time for
1:42:00
my money, mainly because it's absolutely hilarious.
1:42:03
Yeah, and that is well worth a read.
1:42:05
No Star Trek for you, John. No, I've read the Star Trek
1:42:08
making of books. You don't need to, that's why.
1:42:12
He's writing them, that's why. He's writing one.
1:42:14
Yeah. Yeah.
1:42:17
A Kind of Magic by Jonathan Melville about the meeting the
1:42:19
Highlander. Knew that was covered up.
1:42:21
Brilliant. Yeah.
1:42:23
I've missed that one, funnily enough.
1:42:25
Got that in earlier in the year when I was in Edinburgh.
1:42:26
No doubts the only place that sells it was going to Edinburgh.
1:42:30
But in Scotland. Chasing the Light by Oliver
1:42:33
Stone, which is his autobiography, but it mentions a
1:42:35
lot of the films that he was involved in and he's processed.
1:42:37
Lovely. That's a really, really good
1:42:38
book touching on what looks about.
1:42:40
He's a writers and Raging Bulls is a book called Hell Raisers
1:42:43
which is about Burton O'Toole Harrison.
1:42:45
Reed Oh, I've read that. Brilliant.
1:42:47
Fantastic. That's really funny.
1:42:49
The. Reliant and it just kind of
1:42:50
makes you feel better about yourself because you think,
1:42:52
well, I'm not that bad. Yeah.
1:42:54
I'm not like throwing lobsters out of a restaurant because I
1:42:56
think they need to be freed and one that I'm coming back to
1:42:59
regularly, and I think it's really good because you don't
1:43:00
have to plow through it. You can just do it in chapters
1:43:02
is Tarantino cinema speculation, which I think is well worth the
1:43:06
read. Just freeze comparison of Taxi
1:43:08
Driver to the searches. I think that's just absolutely
1:43:10
wonderful. It's a great, great book.
1:43:11
Nice. Lovely.
1:43:13
So you go hell and get some of them on your reading list.
1:43:17
No award recognition for Peter Benchley and Carl Gottlieb for
1:43:19
their screenplay to Jaws. The winners of the Oscars that
1:43:22
year were Bo Goldman and Lawrence Hauben for one.
1:43:25
Flew over the cookie was nest. So fair enough, I think.
1:43:27
Fair enough. Yeah, obviously.
1:43:29
Benchley and Gottlieb on Jaws though.
1:43:31
Not Oscar worthy perhaps, but the best film work they ever
1:43:34
did? Absolutely, yeah.
1:43:37
Without question, low bar. Yeah, really low bar.
1:43:41
The Deep Two inexperienced heads on writing duties on Jaws then.
1:43:50
Not so with the music. The score for Jaws was composed
1:43:53
by John Williams. Jaws was already the 50th film
1:43:57
he worked on as a composer. Mental.
1:44:01
He'd already won an Oscar for Fiddler on the Roof and be
1:44:04
nominated the further 9 times. And he'd already worked with
1:44:06
Spielberg, having scored the Sugarland Express in 1974.
1:44:10
Yeah, I'm surprised I've not heard of him to be honest.
1:44:14
How was John Williams work on Jaws, Luke?
1:44:17
Yeah, I mean, you can't get any more iconic than that classic
1:44:20
Jaws thing, movie history right there, the perfect marriage of
1:44:23
music and visuals and what more can you say about it?
1:44:26
So I'm not going to. Quite rightly, it overshadows
1:44:30
the rest of Williams music in the film, but I think that is a
1:44:32
shame because he does some incredible work, particularly in
1:44:35
the second-half of the film when they're on the board.
1:44:38
The whole life on the ocean waves, epic sweep of the music
1:44:41
gives such a huge sense of adventure and excitement at the
1:44:44
moment where Quint is shooting the shark attaching the first
1:44:46
barrel. And I also what I think gets
1:44:54
missed is his score underneath the Indianapolis speech.
1:44:58
And I think it gets missed because the writing and delivery
1:45:00
is so compelling that you just miss and it creates an
1:45:03
atmosphere kind of like an Avery backdrop to this chilling story.
1:45:07
It's. Really effective stuff that does
1:45:09
go unnoticed. Erie, Indianapolis.
1:45:13
What more can you say? Luke said it there iconic.
1:45:16
I think well he does really well and like you were saying in the
1:45:18
second-half of the film is that he creates atmosphere and kind
1:45:23
of tells you what your emotion should be.
1:45:24
There's some really triumphant moments when they're shooting
1:45:26
the barrels and it's all very much you were out it's it's all
1:45:29
going well and then as soon as the barrels disappear, it's like
1:45:33
he gives the shark an identity and a presence.
1:45:35
I mean, 2 yellow barrels floating around the you should
1:45:38
just feel nothing whatsoever with that score over the top.
1:45:42
He's telling you how to feel and what's incredible and that's
1:45:44
what he does all the way through his career.
1:45:46
I think it's just absolutely fascinating how he just takes 2
1:45:49
notes, which is F and F#, and just turns it into just this
1:45:52
absolute. You do it now like I'm when I
1:45:55
was chasing the kids. Now look, you got all, you did
1:45:57
it. Everybody does.
1:46:00
Everybody knows it. That's what danger sounds like.
1:46:03
He invented the sound of danger. That's how good Joe Williams is.
1:46:06
He always brings 100% no matter what he does, no matter what
1:46:08
film it is. I don't even think he knows how
1:46:11
to bring less than perfect. He's absolutely.
1:46:13
Fantastic and everything and especially.
1:46:16
This, yeah. Amazing.
1:46:18
Yeah, legendary composer John Williams, and this is one of his
1:46:21
most legendary pieces of work. The music is great all the way
1:46:24
through. The music that plays embroidery
1:46:26
and the son are pulling faces at each other.
1:46:28
That must have been a late addition to Williams brief,
1:46:29
presumably because it was added on the set, but it's perfect
1:46:32
what he comes up with. I like the entitled music as
1:46:41
well, which is obviously a bit more upbeat, but when you're
1:46:43
talking music and Jaws, as good as the rest of it is, it is all
1:46:46
just overpowered by that main theme, which is enormous.
1:46:50
Yeah, it is. And Spiel don't knew what he had
1:46:52
because even he about as visual a director as you can get.
1:46:55
The film starts with a black screen and the music players.
1:46:57
Yeah, we hear the music before we see anything.
1:47:00
And as a piece of music, it's like stitched into the fabric of
1:47:03
the film. It's literally irreplaceable
1:47:05
without having a huge impact. It transcends the film.
1:47:08
I think it transcends film in general.
1:47:10
Everyone knows that music and knows what it means.
1:47:12
It does. West of your right.
1:47:13
It means danger. Yeah.
1:47:14
I mean, what can you say? It's surely a contender for the
1:47:17
greatest music written for a film, I think.
1:47:20
I would agree. With two notes, absolutely.
1:47:22
Hands down, that's. Ridiculous.
1:47:27
The first time Williams played the theme to Spielberg, though,
1:47:30
he did it on a piano and just played.
1:47:32
Those two notes that you're talking about, they hate.
1:47:34
This. They hate this.
1:47:39
Spielberg thought it was a joke and started laughing.
1:47:41
I mean without any context I can understand his reaction.
1:47:45
Yeah, you would do, wouldn't you?
1:47:46
Surely. That's what you've got.
1:47:48
That's all you've come up with. Ding, Ding.
1:47:51
But he said that Williams had to play it again and again until it
1:47:53
started to make sense. And now Spielberg calls the Jaws
1:47:57
theme John's greatest contribution to any of my films.
1:48:02
Yeah, it is too nice. But all the things that he does
1:48:04
with it throughout the film, he like slows it down, he speeds
1:48:06
all, he changes the pitch, the arrangements different almost
1:48:09
every time we hear it. And when you listen to the
1:48:11
soundtrack, it's got like 30 odd tracks on there and almost
1:48:14
everyone starts at its own thing and then morphs into some
1:48:17
version of Dum Dum. It's the instrumentation as
1:48:20
well, not use of strings, because it just pulls the notes
1:48:22
out now. Brilliant.
1:48:24
It's just that sharp stop, almost like a bite.
1:48:26
Yeah, it's so visual and it's sound, which sounds ridiculous,
1:48:29
but it is. You can just see it.
1:48:31
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it doesn't matter that
1:48:33
Spare about doesn't have a work in Shark because Williams just
1:48:36
fills in the blanks for him. It's the seven.
1:48:38
You guys have said it goes beyond B music and Wesley
1:48:40
absolutely nailed it. Like if you have a young kid or
1:48:43
you've had a young kid and it's been bath time, it doesn't
1:48:45
matter if they've not seen Jaws. You just do the music anyway and
1:48:49
they get scared because it is. It's the sound of danger.
1:48:52
It's incredible. Yeah, they do.
1:48:55
We have our 2nd paper on question now.
1:48:56
It's on John Williams, and it wouldn't be Jaws without George
1:49:00
Anderson turning up, would it? Certainly wouldn't.
1:49:02
It wouldn't be. Not at all.
1:49:04
He's the shark, but at least he works.
1:49:08
So hi, Jaws, I mean George. Josie.
1:49:12
George, So George has said, I firmly believe that the John
1:49:15
Williams score propels Jaws from just being a pretty good film to
1:49:18
one that has become iconic. Does ATRM agree and does this
1:49:21
William as factor carry you over to other films he's scored?
1:49:25
Also, if Luke gives Jaws an 8 like you do in episode one, then
1:49:28
it's farewell in a year to my fair ATRM Joe Love you guys.
1:49:34
He says no pressure. Price, they won't let us forget
1:49:38
that five years ago. Let it go, George.
1:49:41
So. What do you think, Matt?
1:49:44
I mean, I don't know if we would just be pretty good without the
1:49:47
scarfing. It would be better than that all
1:49:48
the same. But I think George, right, it
1:49:50
does elevate it. And I think that's just the gift
1:49:53
of John Williams. He can't elevate absolutely
1:49:56
anything. I mean, I'm really not
1:49:58
particularly fan of the Harry Potter films, but I know the
1:50:01
music, and the music's really good all the same.
1:50:03
It's really catchy, really memorable.
1:50:04
Yeah. Like.
1:50:04
Perfect, isn't it? Yeah.
1:50:06
It's always like perfect. Whatever film he's doing here.
1:50:07
It's perfect, I see. You don't have to like the
1:50:09
films, but you listen to music or that's spot on for film about
1:50:12
a young wizard at a boarding school.
1:50:13
That's what that music should sound like.
1:50:16
Now you've had a day at work where you think I kind of yours
1:50:17
today. John Williams hasn't.
1:50:20
Exactly. No, he really doesn't.
1:50:24
And I do think there are some Saints that he makes iconic with
1:50:27
music. I think 80 and Elliot riding
1:50:29
past the moon. Obviously, it's an amazing
1:50:31
image, but the image doesn't make you cry.
1:50:34
John Williams makes you cry when he puts that music over the top
1:50:36
of it, too, right? And I think the other one I want
1:50:38
to mention is the first time he drops in the Imperial March and
1:50:41
Empire Strikes Back over the Star Destroyers and fight
1:50:44
together. It's brilliant.
1:50:45
Wow, That's much more foreboding than it had any right to be.
1:50:49
Brilliant. John Williams made me take
1:50:52
cinema seriously, that's how important he is.
1:50:55
Huge statement, so hang on. So Star Wars Raiders, but Westie
1:50:59
above all that, That's how important.
1:51:00
He is. No, I'm just saying.
1:51:06
That's how much of an impact he had.
1:51:08
Imagine Star Wars without that music.
1:51:11
But I'll put it out there and say it'd be pretty fucking
1:51:13
terrible. It adds so much.
1:51:15
He's like given Spielberg money. It's like armor.
1:51:19
His music's like armour around the film and it protects it.
1:51:21
It protects the visuals. Jurassic Park, I mean, you just
1:51:26
as soon as you hear that, you're just like, fucking hell.
1:51:30
That's how much of an impact it's out on me.
1:51:32
And then finally, it's like Indiana Jones.
1:51:33
Once I hear that and that, then just that little bubble it just
1:51:37
got, I get so excited by it. I think his music's just so
1:51:39
effective, so exciting, so powerful and so important.
1:51:42
So yes, the Williams factor on any film will make it 100 times
1:51:45
better. Yeah, I'm not sure that George
1:51:48
would only be pretty good without John Williams, like
1:51:50
George says. To be honest, I think if it just
1:51:52
had a good score instead of a great one, it would still be a
1:51:54
great film. But as great as it is,
1:51:57
definitely not. And that's the thing that's so
1:51:59
amazing about Williams, this kind of enormous film
1:52:02
transcending scores, the kind of thing a composer does once in
1:52:05
their career if they're very lucky.
1:52:07
Yeah. John Williams has done it, what,
1:52:08
5 * 10 times? A lot.
1:52:11
Obviously. Star Wars, ET, Jurassic Park,
1:52:13
Raiders, None of those are as good without John Williams.
1:52:16
My personal favorite piece of music you wrote, though, isn't
1:52:18
Spielberg or Lucas. It is the main theme for
1:52:20
Superman. Yeah, of course.
1:52:21
That is a piece of music so perfect for a character.
1:52:24
I could cry just talking about it.
1:52:26
Yes, that's outstanding. So to answer George, yeah, I
1:52:29
think the impact Williams had on Jaws, he has pretty much had on
1:52:32
some of their films as well. Get really excited talking about
1:52:35
Williams here. Like, I'm glad this bit's over.
1:52:38
Yeah, I mean, we're talking about a living legend here,
1:52:41
probably one of the biggest names in movie history.
1:52:43
Yeah, I agree that the score here really elevates the film to
1:52:46
become an instantly iconic and recognizable.
1:52:49
Using only two notes. I think he propels pretty much
1:52:51
every film he's worked on with Spielberg.
1:52:53
Raiders, ET, Jurassic Park, you mentioned them all.
1:52:56
I do think, though, that Spielberg has made him what he
1:52:59
is as well. 100%, yeah. They're like Lennon and
1:53:02
McCartney. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:53:04
Greater than the sum of their parts.
1:53:06
And he had been doing movie scores.
1:53:07
You mentioned John 15 years before this Oscar winner, but I
1:53:11
don't think anywhere near as iconic as this.
1:53:13
No. Wester, you may argue the
1:53:15
Tarrant inferno. The town infernals.
1:53:18
Fucking massive. But I think George seemed to
1:53:21
light a fire under him. No pun intended, Yeah.
1:53:24
Fire. And Spielberg's his muse and
1:53:32
vice versa. And then after Jaws, like two
1:53:34
years later, he just throws out music for Star Wars like he's
1:53:37
shooting fish in a barrel. Outside the Spielberg films, you
1:53:40
can't go wrong with, like you said, Superman didn't hear Home
1:53:43
Alone from what you were seeing, and JFK all have the Williams
1:53:46
factor. And his score for The Phantom
1:53:48
Menace is only one of two good things about that film.
1:53:51
Yes. Yeah.
1:53:52
Correct. The other thing is lightsaber.
1:53:56
Of his work on Jaws, John Williams won an Oscar for Best
1:53:59
Score, his 2nd, and for us difficult to overstate the
1:54:02
importance of John Williams music on the film.
1:54:05
Impossible to overstate how important it is to be honest.
1:54:07
Yeah. From the audio to the visual,
1:54:11
and we're going to talk now about how Jaws looks.
1:54:14
A couple of areas to get into here as we talk about the
1:54:16
cinematography and the work of director of photography Bill
1:54:18
Butler. And also the visual effects,
1:54:21
mainly that damn mechanical shock.
1:54:24
Yeah. Westy is if I need ask, which
1:54:26
are you going to talk about? Well, I'm going to talk about
1:54:29
Billy Butler. He's my kind of guy.
1:54:31
Billy Butler. Bill Butler.
1:54:33
He's just a very classic. You wouldn't have a phone, would
1:54:36
he? Like ever.
1:54:39
Bless he died last. Year 101 years old.
1:54:41
Wow, Very, very, very, very good cinematographer.
1:54:45
And the work here is just technically brilliant.
1:54:47
Everything's in camera, everything's done for a reason.
1:54:50
And he brings so much to this that Spielberg can just turn
1:54:53
around and say, Bill, can you do that?
1:54:55
And he'll say yes, you know for a fact he can do it.
1:54:57
You know, he's got a real penchant for this classic
1:55:00
technique. And I think that's what yours
1:55:02
is. It's a Classic Cinema technique
1:55:04
film where you can feel like the lens is attached to the camera.
1:55:07
You know, they it's just solid that there's these big
1:55:09
mechanicals behind it. Like he hasn't saved any time at
1:55:12
all. Everything just feels very
1:55:14
thorough. And the opening sequence being
1:55:16
shot day for night when Chris is diving in the water and which
1:55:18
cuts back to the sunset shot when he's falling on the beach,
1:55:21
It just cuts together seamlessly.
1:55:23
And to shoot day for night into a sunset is a challenge in
1:55:26
itself, but you don't question it whatsoever.
1:55:28
Not at all. Especially in 1975, I.
1:55:31
Mean look at that day for night in Deliverance.
1:55:33
Yeah, which is awful and miles apart.
1:55:35
It's horrific. So even that by itself kind of
1:55:39
just bewilders me. But I just think he's one of
1:55:41
them people who's so technically proficient that all the trouble
1:55:45
that Spielberg had on this film, I think he could fall back on
1:55:48
two people. One of them would be Bill Butler
1:55:49
and the other one will be John Williams, as we spoke about, for
1:55:52
people that absolutely give him a safety net.
1:55:54
And that's what we get with Bill Butler's work on this.
1:55:56
I think it's flawless. I think it's wonderful.
1:55:58
Some things are framed so nicely where it's in Spielberg's head,
1:56:02
but you need somebody to pull that out and make it work with
1:56:05
this a reflection of the barrels going past where Brody's looking
1:56:08
through. So you get it all in one shot.
1:56:09
You know, the split diopters in there.
1:56:11
All of these things are absolutely in his cannon, and he
1:56:13
does them so perfectly. So Florida State that you just
1:56:16
kind of go, God, it's just fucking wonderful work.
1:56:20
I agree. It's fantastic.
1:56:22
I mean, we've talked about the visuals all the way through this
1:56:24
episode because how can you not? It's also cinematic.
1:56:27
Dolly zooms, tracking shots, static shots, close-ups,
1:56:29
silhouette, loads more. Spielberg's arsenal is already
1:56:33
massive. And Bill Bottle, that does a
1:56:34
brilliant job of executing all of it.
1:56:36
Yeah, they're already worked together.
1:56:37
Spielberg and Butler on something evil, ATV movie and
1:56:40
Savage, which was ATV pilot. So Spielberg must have been
1:56:43
impressed by what he's seen to get him back in here.
1:56:45
And George kind of shows why. Yeah.
1:56:47
I mean, yeah, the day for night shots alone, that's probably the
1:56:49
best day for night I don't think I've ever seen.
1:56:51
I didn't know it was day for night.
1:56:52
Normally you can tell by mile off.
1:56:54
And I mean, because of all the issues are hard.
1:56:56
They missed the deadline by miles.
1:56:57
But the end product of what we see on the screen delivered
1:57:00
under lots of pressure. Outstanding stuff from Bill
1:57:03
Butler and his team for me. Yeah, looking at just from a
1:57:06
visual point of view, I just think the location is so
1:57:09
idyllic. Yeah, it's the picture perfect
1:57:11
spot. I mean, who wouldn't want to
1:57:13
visit this place for your holidays?
1:57:14
I'd love to go there. It looks brilliant.
1:57:15
Yeah, it's incredible. It's like.
1:57:17
Shields, but some. And I really love the
1:57:21
juxtaposition of the terror that besieges this idyllic town,
1:57:25
strike an absolute fear in a place where people come for
1:57:27
sanctuary. And I think the scene that
1:57:29
really hits that home the most is when those people come from
1:57:31
the mainland and engulf the town.
1:57:34
It's almost as if they're being delivered a shark bait.
1:57:38
And some of the compositions in the film capture both the beauty
1:57:41
and the beast of Amity, like that one at the start when
1:57:43
Chrissy dives into the water in the opening scene.
1:57:46
Incredible images. You want to go, but then the
1:57:49
shark appears. I don't want to go.
1:57:51
Yeah, yeah. No way.
1:57:53
I even have a shot on that ferry, looks great.
1:57:56
Take us back last. Incredible.
1:57:57
Yeah. And one of the issues was, as
1:58:00
we've said earlier, no production hit shot out at sea
1:58:02
as much as Jaws had at the time. So Butler and the crew had to
1:58:06
create solutions to problems they encountered along the way.
1:58:08
So Spielberg told Butler he wanted the audience to feel like
1:58:12
they were drowning. So Butler created a water box
1:58:14
that would house the camera and allow her to go above and blow
1:58:17
the water line. Magnificent that.
1:58:19
Yeah, you had experience shooting documentaries, and I
1:58:22
think you can see that here. Quite a lot of it seems to be
1:58:24
handheld. Same as Dickens as well.
1:58:25
If you come from a documentary background then you can add that
1:58:27
realism to the actual picture and it makes it even scarier.
1:58:31
And they then built a special raft for the water box that
1:58:33
could be raised on Lord using pontoons, and this allowed them
1:58:36
to get shots at different levels above the water.
1:58:39
Yeah, so like in the pond, you know, the shot where the camera,
1:58:42
like, glides past Michael made in the water, but it's a bit
1:58:44
above them. Yeah.
1:58:45
Yeah. That must have been done using
1:58:46
this raft. Yeah.
1:58:47
Nice. And they also used to spray a
1:58:49
deflector which would keep water droplets away from the lens.
1:58:52
And the only time this wasn't used was when the film the
1:58:54
Stampede out of the water. Yeah, to kind of contribute to
1:58:58
that feeling of chaos combined with the handheld stuff.
1:59:00
Brilliant. I love that.
1:59:02
Puts you in there, doesn't it? I think there's one time as well
1:59:04
towards the end, I think, when the shark comes out and Hooper
1:59:06
Dukes out the way and the water hits the lens.
1:59:08
But that's kind of the only time it happens really.
1:59:10
So well done. But there also worked as DP on
1:59:13
The Conversation, Cuckoo's Nest and Grease among, you know, a
1:59:17
load of other films. In 2003 you received the
1:59:20
American Society of Cinematographers Lifetime
1:59:22
Achievement Award and when he did, Spielberg wrote him a
1:59:25
letter saying this. You were the calm before, during
1:59:28
and after every storm on the set of Jaws.
1:59:31
Without your Zen like confidence and wonderful sense of humour I
1:59:34
would have gone the way of the rest of the Jaws crew totally
1:59:37
out of my frigging mind. That's amazing.
1:59:41
Lovely that. Yeah.
1:59:43
Also on Jaws, Bill Butler's chief camera operator was
1:59:45
Michael Chapman, who went on to be DP for Martin Scorsese on
1:59:48
Taxi Driver and Raging Bull. Incredible.
1:59:50
And some of the shots they had was real footage of sharks taken
1:59:53
by two shark experts who we'll talk about a bit later.
1:59:55
So I mean, on the whole that camera team, Spielberg, Butler,
1:59:58
Chapman in real footage like a super group.
2:00:01
Yeah, the travel in Wilburys. Cosby Stills Nashing young.
2:00:04
Yeah. And as we mentioned, Michael
2:00:07
Chapman said that Spielberg originally wanted to nail the
2:00:10
camera to the deck of the ogre, so the foreground was static and
2:00:13
the background and horizon would be in constant motion.
2:00:16
I feel sea stick just thinking, that's all.
2:00:19
That ditch the idea when Butler and Chapman said people will be
2:00:22
thrown up in the aisles. That's just too much.
2:00:24
Yeah. I think some people were
2:00:26
throwing up in the aisles, but not for that reason, yeah.
2:00:28
Yeah, I think that's Spielberg taking John Ford's advice a
2:00:30
little bit too far. Like in the middle, it's bored.
2:00:33
Just move it. Constantly the.
2:00:36
Good thing I think we have to talk about is the shark and the
2:00:39
effects, because they do have a bit of a bad rap, to be honest.
2:00:42
And obviously, that comes with the caveat that Spielberg was
2:00:45
trying to use them as little as possible.
2:00:46
But I think when he does, I think they do look good apart
2:00:49
from the end. It's only when it flips itself
2:00:51
up onto the orca. That's the only time you go, ah,
2:00:54
yeah, Now I see why he was hiding it for so long.
2:00:57
But I think the other brief glimpses work really, really
2:00:59
well. I think it's terrifying when
2:01:01
it's gobbling down the roar in the pond thing.
2:01:03
That looks fantastic. And I think the other effects
2:01:05
work that doesn't really get commented on as much of the
2:01:08
makeup effects. You know, Chrissy's arm, just
2:01:10
that brief shot of her on being held up, the explosion of blood
2:01:14
when Alex gets killed. So overall, I think the effects
2:01:16
are better than they get credit for.
2:01:18
Yeah, Quinn's death as well. I think that's fantastic.
2:01:21
Oh Jesus Christ, something else it is.
2:01:22
I'm quite relieved when it looks fake to be honest.
2:01:28
But yeah, it has become a bit fashionable to slam the shog and
2:01:30
jaws like as an effect and say that it's rubbish.
2:01:32
Even Back to the Future too. Got in on the act like we said
2:01:34
before. Yeah.
2:01:35
Yeah. And I mean, does it always look
2:01:37
totally real? No, it probably doesn't.
2:01:39
I think it's mainly the eyes. It's got, like, those black
2:01:41
eyes, like a doll's eyes, obviously.
2:01:44
Yeah. And when I see those, it does
2:01:46
make the model look a bit lifeless, but I still like it.
2:01:48
The appearance of the shark has never ruined the film for me.
2:01:51
No me either at. The end when we see more of it
2:01:53
as it attacks Hooper in the cage and then Quinton Brody on the
2:01:55
auger. I always buy it never takes me
2:01:57
out of the film. Not at all.
2:01:59
So it's always been fine for me. The production designer on Jaws
2:02:03
was Joe Alves, and he had a special effects artist called
2:02:06
Bob Matty's create the mechanical shark in question.
2:02:09
He worked on the giant squid on 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea as
2:02:12
well, so he's got the chops. Alves did a lot of research into
2:02:15
how sharks moved and then created clear models and
2:02:18
sketches. And based on that, Bob Matty
2:02:20
built three sharks controlled by hydraulics that cost a quarter
2:02:24
of a million to build and half a million to operate.
2:02:27
But the problem was that they hadn't been tested properly when
2:02:30
they went out to Martha's Vineyard.
2:02:32
So Xanax said that what we see in the film is basically every
2:02:35
frame they filmed of the shark worker.
2:02:39
Every single frame slim Pickens that.
2:02:41
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, They've been tested
2:02:44
in freshwater. The hydraulic models, not salt
2:02:46
water and the sea plate have it with the mechanics apparently.
2:02:49
That's a full. Pause level.
2:02:50
Nobody thought of that. Yeah, I know.
2:02:52
I mean when the shark does work, it looks good.
2:02:54
The shots from the Yorker when the shark swimming passed when
2:02:56
quinch like 25. That shot looks good.
2:02:58
That's great. That's a great shot, yeah.
2:03:01
But the whole idea in 1974 of just going right, we're going to
2:03:05
build a robot shark and then go and film it out and say it's
2:03:08
absolute insanity. It's insane and nobody said hang
2:03:12
on, hang on what? That sounds fine.
2:03:14
That sounds totally fine, yeah. Sorry, at the bath.
2:03:17
Yeah, it moves around a bit. Yeah, fine.
2:03:21
And Spielberg had a couple of names for the shark.
2:03:24
One was because of all the problems it caused, he named it
2:03:27
the Great White Turd. Disgusting.
2:03:29
Disgusting. Needs more humor?
2:03:36
And you're the much more famous one, I'm sure a lot of people
2:03:38
know, but it was called Bruce as well, which was after his
2:03:41
lawyer, Bruce Ramer. Yeah, yeah, Bruce.
2:03:44
Yeah, from the great white hope to the great white turd.
2:03:46
How things changed. I mean the great white turd.
2:03:49
Aside from everything else, that's just a mouthful to say
2:03:51
when you're referring. To the shark.
2:03:53
The Great White test. Too many words.
2:03:54
Yeah, a lot of downtime, a lot of time to talk, to be fair.
2:03:58
Everyone was like oh for fuck's. Sake, he's the director.
2:04:00
Laugh. Honestly just laughing.
2:04:02
The director. But the first thing we see the
2:04:05
shot, like close up is when it comes out, they say it, Brody.
2:04:08
And that's like one hour, 21 minutes into the film.
2:04:10
Yeah, yeah. That special effect Joel has
2:04:13
worked on was the orca. They bought a Nova Scotia
2:04:16
tourist boat and referred it. There were two orcas, one which
2:04:19
was the boat they would film on and the other was used for the
2:04:22
end. When the orca sinks, it had no
2:04:24
bottom and they used barrels to lift or sink it in the water as
2:04:27
they want to do. Great.
2:04:28
Yes, the stern of that ball was they made a balsa award as well.
2:04:30
So it was splint down when the shark crashes down on it at the
2:04:33
end after the special effects ball.
2:04:34
Right? Yes, right.
2:04:35
No award for the visuals in Jaws, but over time so many of
2:04:39
the images we see have become timeless.
2:04:41
Absolutely. Oh yeah, yeah, 100%.
2:04:43
Yes, they have. So some great help and support
2:04:45
on Jaws for Steven Spielberg and in Peter eventually Carl
2:04:47
Gottlieb, John Williams, Bill Butler, Joe Alves and Bob Matty.
2:04:51
They were many people left their mark on the film.
2:04:54
Yes, indeed. Yes, they were.
2:04:59
The end. The final act of yours.
2:05:03
And with the mayor having hired Quinn to kill the shark, we
2:05:06
leave the island aboard the Yoga with Quinn, Brody, and Hooper.
2:05:10
We're going to be talking about the climax where all of our guys
2:05:12
get their moment with the shark. But before that, there's some
2:05:15
huge scenes aboard the Yoga. So, having set sail, it's not
2:05:20
too long before The Three Musketeers find themselves up
2:05:22
against the shark. In the scenes aboard the orca,
2:05:24
we get some iconic lines of dialogue, epic speeches and a
2:05:28
lot of shooting a fish with a barrel.
2:05:31
We're shark hunting. Look by land or see your form.
2:05:34
Yes, we are. How do you find it all?
2:05:37
Wonderful. And you said about iconic
2:05:39
dialogue, and that's the moment that that I love here, the
2:05:42
iconic big abort moment. Massive.
2:05:45
Yeah, Shider's dialogue is great because he's getting very angry
2:05:48
at this point. You heard him.
2:05:50
Slow ahead. I can go slow ahead, come on
2:05:53
down and chum some of this shit really angry.
2:05:57
And this moment is amazing because Brody isn't looking due
2:06:00
to his anger and it takes us completely by surprise when that
2:06:03
shark raised it's ugly head. But that's such a well put
2:06:06
together shot. Considering the problems they
2:06:08
had with the shark, that's remarkable.
2:06:10
And when it cuts to Brody is he bolts upright scared stiff.
2:06:14
He is the audience in that moment.
2:06:16
It's the reaction shot that makes it, isn't it?
2:06:18
The head in here that really shines.
2:06:19
It is, and you're gonna need a bigger boat line works because
2:06:23
we haven't really seen the shark yet, or at least we haven't seen
2:06:26
the magnitude of it. Yeah, Brody's face and that
2:06:29
iconic line tells you everything that you need to know.
2:06:32
And I think the reason that it's taken on this legendary status
2:06:34
is because of what it represents within the narrative.
2:06:37
This is when we know what they're up against, a 25 footer,
2:06:41
25. The shark comes at them and then
2:06:43
circles the board as if it's taunting them.
2:06:45
And it does look magnificent. To go back to what you said
2:06:47
about the special effects, it looks amazing because it does
2:06:49
get a bad rap for looking fake. But I think that's the sequels,
2:06:52
to be honest, Yeah. Well, yeah, we'll talk about
2:06:55
that. I wish we weren't briefly that
2:06:59
iconic line. You're going to need a bigger
2:07:00
board. That wasn't in the shooting
2:07:02
script. It was ad libbed on the day by
2:07:04
Roy Schneider. Which is brilliant.
2:07:06
Yeah, yeah, a great ad Lib and no brain that.
2:07:09
Leave that in Julie. Of course.
2:07:10
Absolutely, yeah. But like the way that they draw
2:07:13
this conflict between the three guys when they're on the board,
2:07:15
there hasn't been a crossword between Brody and who back to
2:07:17
this point. But Quint, he could start an
2:07:19
argument in an empty room, That guy.
2:07:21
Absolutely. I know the feeling.
2:07:26
And some of the shots as well. We get that shot just before
2:07:28
this when the orcas leaving the Marina and we watch from Quinn
2:07:31
Shaq through one of his shark jawbones.
2:07:33
That's incredible. Crazy, surely?
2:07:35
Shit. But then there's like a bigger
2:07:37
one actually on the yoga, isn't there?
2:07:39
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
2:07:41
And then the one on the yoga where Quinn standing on the
2:07:43
parapet like silhouettes against the horizon.
2:07:45
Unbelievable. Beautiful.
2:07:47
I mean, you have to talk about the moment coming up, which is
2:07:49
my favorite moment, which I think is everyone's favorite
2:07:52
moment. That's everyone's favorite
2:07:53
moment, of course. It is.
2:07:54
Everyone's favorite moment It is, of course, the Indianapolis
2:07:57
speech, because I don't think anyone has ever sobered up as
2:08:01
quickly as Hooper does here have there that's.
2:08:05
Yeah, it's instantaneous. It is instantaneous, that segue
2:08:08
from him and Quint finally starting to get along.
2:08:11
Yeah, comparing scars, which is really funny.
2:08:14
And then boom, what's that one? And Hooper's hysterics at Mother
2:08:18
just shuts the fuck up with those two words.
2:08:21
USS Indianapolis. Which sure delivers really
2:08:26
subtly. Like he doesn't want big with
2:08:27
the delivery and it's on the way.
2:08:28
He just gently clutches Hooper's arm at the time.
2:08:32
Does have to say I'm not offended but just stop laughing
2:08:36
because I'm going to tell you some bad shit.
2:08:37
Yeah, lovely moment. And it's like the air just gets
2:08:41
sucked out of the room. Beautifully judged sound design,
2:08:43
the lapping of the waves outside, the creaking of the
2:08:46
boat, perfect use of the skull, which we've already talked,
2:08:48
which is really subtly in the scene.
2:08:50
And then the result is this absolute cinema magic.
2:08:53
It's an incredible actor with an incredible monologue for 5
2:08:57
minutes. In short, just delivers every
2:09:00
line perfectly. He rings every nuance out of
2:09:03
this speech. And there's so many highlights
2:09:05
in just this five minute monologue.
2:09:08
The story about Herbie Robinson, about how he was more scared
2:09:11
when it was his turn to be rescued.
2:09:13
He'll never put on a life jacket again.
2:09:15
You don't need a flashback. It's just hypnotic to sit there
2:09:18
and listen to this. And by the end, you totally
2:09:21
understand Quinn's character. You understand why you got that
2:09:24
tattoo removed and the way he ends this.
2:09:26
Anyway, we delivered the bomb. And just that little smile, like
2:09:32
the psychological ramifications on him are so clear.
2:09:35
And by the end, it's not Brody and Hooper listening to Quinn.
2:09:38
I think it's generally Shider and Dreyfus just watching Robert
2:09:42
Shaw in awe of him delivering this speech.
2:09:45
Nice. He even takes his hat off at the
2:09:46
right time. Yeah, yeah, perfectly judged,
2:09:49
perfectly time. Like when he knocks the table
2:09:52
like three or four times, does that knock?
2:09:54
Yeah, it just, it shows his whole cycle.
2:09:56
He's still waiting for his turn. He always will be.
2:09:58
And that's the whole point of the film and that's all point of
2:10:00
the character. Yeah, I think this moment hits
2:10:02
so hard because it comes right after that moment that you were
2:10:05
talking about, Matt, that moment of levity when we desperately
2:10:08
needed it between these. Two did, yeah.
2:10:10
Quinton Hooper coming together over their battle scars.
2:10:13
So we're all having a great time.
2:10:15
They're all having a great laugh.
2:10:16
He loves that mother joke. Yeah.
2:10:20
Nobody's ever loved a joke like that in their life.
2:10:22
Massive sing along as well. Having a great time, Massive.
2:10:27
It's a great as well as like Quint and Hoopa's meals are
2:10:30
finished but Brody's never touched his meal so they're
2:10:32
comfortable and he's so uncomfortable.
2:10:34
It's just brilliant. I love Hoopa's playing the drums
2:10:36
when they sing and show me the way they go, you know?
2:10:39
Laughing at his own jokes, playing drums on the table.
2:10:41
Is this me? But then Quint comes in with
2:10:46
this earth shattering story like you mentioned, Matt, and I think
2:10:49
it strengthens everything we know about Quint.
2:10:51
He is one tough mother, Yeah, who's seen more despair than we
2:10:54
could even contemplate. And also I think that knowing
2:10:57
this about Quint at feeds right into the ended.
2:10:59
I think he was destined to die at sea.
2:11:01
And I think he knew his time was up well before the shark gets
2:11:04
him. Yeah, I mean he talks about his
2:11:06
friend being bitten below the waist, which is how he goes.
2:11:08
He's pre empting it. It's all there.
2:11:10
Of course he is. Yeah.
2:11:12
Yeah, it is one of the great movie monologues.
2:11:13
I think he delivered the bomb. All right.
2:11:15
Did show massive. And so if anyone that might not
2:11:19
be away, the US Indianapolis was a real ship in the US Navy that
2:11:22
was torpedoed during the Second World War by Japanese submarine.
2:11:26
Yeah. So 900 sailors abandoned the
2:11:28
ship into shark infested water and only 316 came out.
2:11:33
Jesus. The speech wasn't in the book
2:11:34
because the story only been declassified by the US Navy a
2:11:37
few months before filming started.
2:11:39
So it was written for the movie. Wow.
2:11:41
Red hot. Yeah, I think the truth of the
2:11:43
matter is where the sharks picked off mostly dead people.
2:11:45
But it's still like to paint that picture like however he
2:11:48
sees it is how he sees it. And I buy that completely
2:11:51
irregardless of the truth. Yeah, In writing the speech, it
2:11:54
was famously very collaborative. When Howard Sackler was working
2:11:57
on the script, he thought Quinn needed a back story, so he came
2:12:00
up with the idea of using the Indianapolis.
2:12:02
Great idea. It was a great idea, but we had
2:12:05
the best idea. We had his crack at the speech
2:12:08
that ended up about a page long. Spielberg took that and he
2:12:12
happened to mention it one of his pals, John Milius, who asked
2:12:14
if he could take a crack at it. His effort ended up A10 page
2:12:18
long monologue, which Robert Short looked at and went, I
2:12:21
can't do a 10 minute speech. So he took it away, redrafted it
2:12:24
down to 5 pages, and that's why we get in the film.
2:12:27
Fake Milius Walter What? My friends die face down in the
2:12:33
ocean. He had your Melius wrote
2:12:37
Apocalypse Now as well, didn't he?
2:12:38
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, draft of it, Yeah.
2:12:41
So he's got some decent work examples in his portfolio.
2:12:44
Yeah, and when the film, the scene sure thought it would be a
2:12:46
good idea to have a few drinks, as he probably would all the way
2:12:50
through his career. I think so as Quint had been
2:12:52
drinking in the film, he thought were kind of tie in, but he had
2:12:54
too much and got absolutely hammered so he couldn't deliver
2:12:57
it properly. And apparently the next day he
2:12:59
apologized to Spielberg and said just please give us one more
2:13:02
chance, and then just did it in one take the next day straight
2:13:04
down. Wow, if there's footage like
2:13:07
first attempt I want to see it. I want to see it, yeah.
2:13:10
That'd be brilliant. Pissed.
2:13:12
Yeah, Bowie delivers. Probably just started singing
2:13:16
Show me the way to go home. That's where that came from.
2:13:21
And after the film came out, Dreyfus said that Peter
2:13:23
Benchley's cleaner didn't turn up for work one morning.
2:13:25
It was because her son had been on the real Indianapolis, and
2:13:28
until she saw Jaws, she hadn't known how he died.
2:13:31
Wow. Wow, really?
2:13:33
Jesus Christ. Yeah, boys.
2:13:36
Oh, boys. Really, Camp.
2:13:43
Oh, boys. Look what I found.
2:13:48
Carry on. Amity, again, isn't.
2:13:50
It carry on organ sailor on the starboard bow.
2:13:54
This is again we spoke about what we talked about John
2:13:57
Williams. But I think the music really
2:13:58
shines here. It just gets so triumphant and
2:14:01
you just think they're getting one over.
2:14:03
But Bruce, if I may call him Bruce, because it's just the
2:14:05
shop. For our guest.
2:14:07
But he's ripping the piss out of the beers.
2:14:08
He's absolutely taking the piss. He's under the boat, he's around
2:14:12
the side, he's just coming there.
2:14:13
He's going to these down. Not 3 barrels.
2:14:15
That's not going to happen. But this is one of the
2:14:18
signatures that was born from necessity.
2:14:20
It doesn't work, So what can we do?
2:14:22
But we'll have two barrels of 1 barrel.
2:14:24
So know where the shark is and the music's going to back that
2:14:26
up. The visuals are going to back
2:14:27
that up. This whole sequence with the
2:14:29
firing barrels just feels so triumphant, as if they're
2:14:31
actually winning, but they're definitely not.
2:14:34
Because this thing is just seems like a super bad guy.
2:14:37
Like you can't bring it down with conventional methods.
2:14:40
It has to be done with something else.
2:14:42
It's definitely like a horror film, especially, you know, the
2:14:44
three barrels. It's not going underneath the
2:14:45
three barrels. Yeah.
2:14:46
And it does. And you're like Quint at the
2:14:49
front of that boat with that spear gun just ready to fire to
2:14:54
sweeping around and the musics there.
2:14:55
And it's really trying. But it's just that's what sticks
2:14:57
in my head when I think about yours because I think first time
2:15:01
I watched it when I was younger, I thought there's so much hope
2:15:03
here. Just a brilliant, brilliant
2:15:04
sequence from everybody, I think.
2:15:07
It is, yeah. I mean, you've got to give it a
2:15:08
Spielberg here. How many different ways can you
2:15:10
show the shark without showing the shark?
2:15:12
Exactly. Yeah.
2:15:13
We've had Chrissy dragged around in the first scene.
2:15:15
Then we get the jetty, a cardboard fin, and now a load of
2:15:18
yellow barrels. And all of it works really well.
2:15:21
I feel the presence of the shark when I see those yellow barrels.
2:15:23
Totally. And Quinn's just lost his
2:15:25
marbles. By this point, he's already
2:15:27
smashed up his own radio. Then just conks the ogre out.
2:15:29
What's he doing there? Don't push it so.
2:15:32
Certifiable, isn't he? You're reminds working.
2:15:34
All these memes that are going around now where they're like,
2:15:36
tell me that there's a shark without telling me that there's
2:15:38
a shark. Yeah, yeah.
2:15:39
That's exactly what this is, Spielberg.
2:15:42
Yeah, yeah. And that moment as well where he
2:15:45
conks the board out, that's not in the script.
2:15:47
I wonder if it's something that they came up with and shot when
2:15:49
they had some, like, downtime waiting for the shark or
2:15:51
something. I'm not sure.
2:15:52
Yeah, possibly, yeah. Yeah, maybe.
2:15:55
And this is also around the time when we see the famous meteor
2:15:57
shot as well, isn't it? Yeah, the shooting star.
2:15:59
Yeah, when the camera capture like a real meteor burning up in
2:16:02
Earth's atmosphere behind Roy Schneider, the one bit of luck
2:16:05
they had in the whole production.
2:16:07
I think that was a visual effect.
2:16:08
I'm not buying. That's real.
2:16:10
I'm surprised didn't come hurling towards the ogre the
2:16:13
other bad look they had. That's my question.
2:16:16
Yeah, some huge moments there then, including your huge
2:16:20
speech. Let's see how it all plays out,
2:16:22
should we? Let's do it.
2:16:26
The climax of Jawa Sees pay off to the stories of all three of
2:16:29
our main characters. First, Hooper faces off with the
2:16:32
shark in the cage, then Quint is eaten alive by the Great White
2:16:35
before Brody blows at the Kingdom come.
2:16:38
Yeah. You got no spit, Westie.
2:16:40
How was the climax with the shark?
2:16:43
I mean the bit when Hooper goes down in that cage, don't do it.
2:16:46
Don't do it. But I just love the way that
2:16:48
this is cut together. It's just, again, visually
2:16:50
brilliant like that. Sharks going to tear this thing
2:16:52
to pizzas. Well, you've got a better idea.
2:16:54
And then it comes back early and then the whole cage just lifts
2:16:56
into the frame. Love that.
2:16:58
It's fucking brilliant. And they're all working together
2:17:01
and there's that low angle of shock.
2:17:02
Kind of reminds me of the A-Team, like in the 80s, like
2:17:04
the totally ripped off this whole thing.
2:17:06
Well, they come back and it's like a massive nuclear warhead
2:17:09
or something. They built their own shark.
2:17:15
And as soon as he goes down in that cage, you go, OK, right, I
2:17:18
don't want to be here, but we are there.
2:17:20
And the silence is deften. And as soon as you go into that
2:17:22
water, it's absolutely ridiculous.
2:17:24
And I think every single time, even now, who has done for But
2:17:28
the battle of just before this is when Brody taps him on the
2:17:30
head and just points and he gives him his glasses and they
2:17:32
just kind of smile at each other.
2:17:33
That's a really lovely moment. Puts him in his mouth though.
2:17:36
Disgusting. Yeah.
2:17:38
He won't eat them again. Fine.
2:17:42
It just shows their closeness and their understanding.
2:17:44
I think it's really, really good.
2:17:46
Then that music kicks in and you go, ah, and it comes from the
2:17:49
back. Just that lovely shot where he
2:17:51
just takes the cork off the end of the yeah.
2:17:53
Yeah, I love that. Sounds great.
2:17:55
And then when that whole cage is just broken open and there's
2:17:58
that gap in the front of it, honest to God, I just get
2:18:00
absolute palpitations. I cannot handle it.
2:18:03
And then we'll come back and you go, how intelligent is this
2:18:05
thing? Because it's going to pull the
2:18:06
board under using this. Well, it gives him a slip,
2:18:08
doesn't it? And like appears over here.
2:18:10
Like here I am, what comes up behind?
2:18:13
Them. At this point in this film, I
2:18:16
just think everything's falling apart and it's brilliantly done.
2:18:19
It is. It's amazing.
2:18:21
Yeah, there's loads of moments in Jaws where I find myself
2:18:23
asking what would I do in that situation?
2:18:26
Like would I jump into the sea to save someone from a shark
2:18:28
attack? No.
2:18:29
Nope. Definitely not well.
2:18:34
This the moment before Hooper goes under the water.
2:18:36
I'm pretty sure there's no chance I'd be doing that.
2:18:39
No chance at all. And Dreyfus plays Hoopas fear
2:18:42
really well. That line I got no spit.
2:18:44
That's not in the script either, so Dreyfus Adelaide, I assume?
2:18:47
Yeah, that's really good. It's really good.
2:18:49
And in the book, this is the point that Hoopa dies, the shark
2:18:51
destroys the cage and takes him with it.
2:18:53
Yeah, I'm glad that she did though.
2:18:54
No way could I handle seeing this Hoopa getting jumped by the
2:18:57
shark. I would have been awful, he
2:18:58
knows had been horrific. Totally unnecessary.
2:19:01
And the visuals who bind the shark like this close to each
2:19:03
other is great. And for the last four decades,
2:19:05
whenever I see, like, a wildlife program or something with
2:19:08
somebody going underwater in a cage, I always think of yours.
2:19:11
Yeah. Absolutely.
2:19:12
Maybe the most visceral moment in the film for me.
2:19:14
Yeah. Yeah.
2:19:15
Definitely. We mentioned earlier that
2:19:17
Spielberg used some real footage of sharks, and most of it comes
2:19:20
in this cage sequence. Yeah.
2:19:22
Ron and Valerie Taylor were two shark experts sent to shoot
2:19:25
footage of sharks off the coast of Australia with a stuntman in
2:19:28
a cage. The sharks were only 14 foot
2:19:31
rather than the old 25 footer, so to make them look bigger,
2:19:35
Spielberg used a small cage with a small stuntman.
2:19:38
So Carl Rizzo, who was 4 foot 11, was hired.
2:19:44
Only 14 feet, I mean. Yeah, that's still. 14 feet too
2:19:47
long for me. Should have got Ronnie Corbett
2:19:49
in. He was big at the time.
2:19:50
What's wrong with him? But to never take these glasses
2:19:52
off the one fit in your mouth. John Ronnie Corbett was never
2:19:55
big. I don't think Corbett had the
2:19:57
dexterity that Rizzo did, to be honest.
2:19:59
He would have been alive. That's goodbye from him.
2:20:06
And when they were about to put Rizzo in the cage, one of the
2:20:08
sharks got tangled in it and started flashing about.
2:20:11
And that's the footage we see in the film where it looks like the
2:20:13
shark is destroying the cage. It's terrifying.
2:20:16
It is that, well, he's the thing, Ron Taylor said.
2:20:18
If Rizzo had been in the cage at the time, he would have
2:20:20
definitely died. 100%, yeah. Yeah, and he also said that Carl
2:20:24
Rizzo refused to go back into the cage after that, which is
2:20:27
fair enough, I think. Not surprise.
2:20:30
Imagine like, Carl, back in your cage.
2:20:32
Come on. Villa cheer.
2:20:35
Get out of there man. No.
2:20:38
Thank. You after this, you get the
2:20:42
scene which has haunted me ever since the first sort, which is
2:20:45
Quinn's death, because I can so vividly remember watching this
2:20:50
for the first time. I was with my older sister.
2:20:53
We were in her room. It was on this crappy little
2:20:56
portable TV. No idea how he could make
2:20:58
anything out, it was so small and fuzzy data back then.
2:21:01
But she'd seen it before. So when Quint gets bitten and
2:21:05
the blood spurts out of his mouth like my little mouth was
2:21:09
just open and horrid, but she pretended to be sick in her
2:21:12
hands and thawed at me. But it was actually Hair Moose
2:21:15
that should squirt it into her hands because she knew this bit
2:21:17
was coming up. Elaborate crankiness.
2:21:20
Elaborate setup. Really elaborate setup.
2:21:23
I've never gotten over it. It's scarred me for life.
2:21:26
Like any argument we have, any disagreement, it will come back
2:21:29
to. Yeah, but do you remember when
2:21:30
you showed me Jaws? And Clinton always come back.
2:21:33
Down to that. You nickname for you Maddie
2:21:35
Moose. Maddie Moose.
2:21:39
Yeah, this thing, it just sends shivers down my spine.
2:21:41
And it's everything we've said about Quinn.
2:21:43
It does feel inevitable that it was going to end this way for
2:21:45
him. And it's so tragic because that
2:21:48
speech, it humanizes him before then he says this irascible old
2:21:51
sea dog who we're not sure if he should trust not but by now
2:21:54
think. You care about them, Don't.
2:21:56
You we care about now we understand why he is the way
2:21:58
that he is. So for him to go out like this,
2:22:01
it's just absolutely tragic. The way he does go down as well,
2:22:04
like how did sure do that straight down in the mouth of
2:22:07
this thing is how how quick is he going to get out of it
2:22:09
doesn't work. Yeah, but like how all three
2:22:13
main characters come face to face with the shark, like,
2:22:15
individually they all have their moment with them.
2:22:17
So more successful than others, obviously.
2:22:19
But that moment when the shark like clamps down on Quint and
2:22:22
there's that crunch in the sound design, in the blood, it's
2:22:25
really well done now. It's fantastic.
2:22:27
Sure sells the hell out of it in the performance as well as.
2:22:30
He does, yeah. And it did had to end this way
2:22:32
for Quinn surely didn't get killed by a shark.
2:22:35
Inevitable. Yeah, absolutely.
2:22:36
It's just the way that he slides down towards it, It's like you
2:22:39
have to meet his fate. He can't avoid it whatsoever.
2:22:42
Yeah, so after this moment, Brody completely backed into a
2:22:45
corner here, Hoopers gone, Quinn has bought it, and he's next.
2:22:50
Unless he can do something really fast.
2:22:53
We know that already. But the visuals do an incredible
2:22:55
job of backing that up. Martin clinging onto the only
2:22:58
part of the boat that hasn't submerged, but it won't be long
2:23:01
before it does. It's almost like the burning
2:23:03
down of a fuse on a stick of dynamite.
2:23:05
Yeah, we're down to the quick here.
2:23:07
This is the very end. If he doesn't do something now,
2:23:09
he's done. Yeah.
2:23:10
Love that overhead shot of Brody sticking the shark in the face.
2:23:13
I mean, that shark gets a lot like machetes and knives.
2:23:17
And when it goes and then comes back, Martin says show me the
2:23:20
tank. Show me the tank.
2:23:21
I think it's a little bit heavy-handed exposition, you
2:23:24
know, if you're listening, this is what I'm aiming for.
2:23:26
That's why I but I think it does work for me because I think in
2:23:30
moments of absolute adversity, you kind of do talk to yourself
2:23:33
and give yourself a little bit of a pep.
2:23:34
Talk. I'll buy.
2:23:35
That's grandma. I'll buy it.
2:23:36
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
2:23:38
And panic, you'll be like, come on, please just show us that
2:23:40
tongue. Yeah.
2:23:41
But that visual of broadly leaning against the mast, rifle
2:23:44
in hand, Smile, you son of a bitch.
2:23:46
What an image that is. Amazing.
2:23:48
Beautiful. Is a great way to finish.
2:23:50
I know some people say that shooting the gas tank wouldn't
2:23:52
cause it to explore in real life and fine.
2:23:55
Ohh blah blah fucking whatever. When you get the jaws for see, I
2:24:00
would die, yeah. Exactly.
2:24:02
But yeah, exactly. After everything that's
2:24:04
happened, you've got to come up with a satisfying way to kill
2:24:06
the shark. Yeah.
2:24:07
And how do you do it? This is satisfying and then some
2:24:10
to me. Obviously, you've got the lion
2:24:12
smile, you son of a bitch. There's an awesome underwater
2:24:14
shot of the mechanical shark swimming towards Brody where it
2:24:17
looks totally real. And then the explosion, blood
2:24:20
and guts everywhere. Could it be ridiculous?
2:24:21
But the way they kind of roll it all out, it's just like the
2:24:24
perfect blockbuster climax. It is amazing, and the last
2:24:27
thing you see is the dorsal fin just disappearing into the
2:24:30
blood. That was the first thing you
2:24:31
would see, and that's the last thing you see when it dies.
2:24:33
Brilliant. It's absolutely wonderful.
2:24:34
And he saw this in the book when he's doing research about it.
2:24:37
You actually see a tank in the mouth of the shark in the book.
2:24:40
That's right. It's his education.
2:24:42
Brilliant. Yeah, it is.
2:24:43
It's actually just a dad protecting these kids because
2:24:45
that's what spurred him on to do this, because the shark attacks
2:24:48
these kids in the pond. So that's it.
2:24:50
He's had enough. And I think Spielberg was
2:24:52
influenced of the moment in To Kill a Mockingbird when Atticus
2:24:55
Finn shoots the rabid dog to protect these children.
2:24:57
All right, Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
2:24:58
All right. Yeah.
2:24:59
And he says I haven't shot in years.
2:25:00
I don't know what I'm doing. It's the same rifle.
2:25:02
It's exactly the same thing. He's protecting these children.
2:25:04
Both got the glasses. But I mean, Alex, Vince didn't
2:25:06
say smiley son of a bitch. But apart from that.
2:25:09
Would have improved. It if he did like wouldn't this
2:25:11
that's. What was missing from the film?
2:25:13
Saying that to a dog, you get cancelled.
2:25:16
Gas tank in its mouth, that's where Spielberg got inspiration
2:25:19
from that, and I think it really works.
2:25:21
Yeah, we mentioned earlier that the book ends differently, where
2:25:23
the shark dies from its wounds, and Spielberg changed it to what
2:25:26
we see here. Apparently Benchley was so
2:25:29
furious that they changed it that he stormed off set.
2:25:32
But he later said Spielberg was right.
2:25:35
I mean, he was. Massively right?
2:25:37
No excuse for anything other to be quite.
2:25:40
I know. I think depending on what you
2:25:42
read, Benchley either stormed off the set or was thrown off
2:25:44
it. Like, get out Benchley.
2:25:47
What's he thinking? It has to end like this, doesn't
2:25:50
it? It can't end any other way now
2:25:52
with, you know. Yeah, The last shot scheduled
2:25:54
during production was of the shark blowing up.
2:25:57
They didn't have it ready in time.
2:25:58
So Spielberg said that Bill Butler.
2:25:59
Well, I'm still leaving. You should in the morning.
2:26:02
He's had enough. I don't know.
2:26:04
Yeah. I would have thought after
2:26:05
everything, you want to see that fucking thing blowing up, Yeah.
2:26:08
Probably had a party to go to, but that's now became a
2:26:11
tradition. I think in Spielberg shoots, I
2:26:13
think he never directs the final shot himself.
2:26:16
Right. Oh really?
2:26:16
Didn't Fincher do that in the social network?
2:26:19
Yes, he did. Yeah, left it to Salkin to do.
2:26:21
Yeah. I just want to talk about the
2:26:23
very, very end because it always makes me chuckle that the
2:26:25
credits are often done with so quickly.
2:26:28
And I think that's just another indicator that Spielberg is such
2:26:31
a hired handy because every Spielberg film after this gets a
2:26:34
proper credit crawl. He it's just get it off and done
2:26:37
with. Yeah.
2:26:39
Exactly. Yeah.
2:26:39
As soon as the shop blows up, it's finished.
2:26:41
About 20 seconds later, it feels like, Yeah.
2:26:45
And I don't know if you've noticed, but as the end credits
2:26:47
are rolling, we'll have the shot of, like, Amity Beach in the
2:26:49
background. Yeah, you can see Brodie and
2:26:52
Hoopa has two little dots swimming to shore.
2:26:54
And if you watch the credits to the end, we can see them get out
2:26:56
of the water as well. Yeah, they make it done that.
2:26:58
Yeah, yeah. Should have been beaten by a
2:27:00
shock. I think on the on the big screen
2:27:03
that would have made more sense. And I think in 7475 that's what
2:27:06
they're looking for. Yeah, it's harder spot on the
2:27:09
TV, but it's definitely there. Yeah, yeah, it's great.
2:27:11
And like that, it's the end. Huge climax to Jaws, one of the
2:27:15
most famous finales out there. And not to Peter Benchley's
2:27:18
taste, maybe, but we think it works pretty well.
2:27:21
It's definitely a mine. To everyone else's perfect
2:27:24
ended. Reception under wards.
2:27:31
We've been through the film, but it isn't the full story of Jaws
2:27:34
without talking about how it was received as well, is it?
2:27:37
Nope, not at all. You've got city hands, Matt.
2:27:41
Been counting money all your life?
2:27:42
I wish. So who?
2:27:44
Who better talk about yours at the box office than you?
2:27:48
Indeed So the original budget for Jaws was $4 million, but
2:27:53
after all the problems we've talked about them as deadlines,
2:27:55
it wound up costing $9 million. But despite all the issues, it
2:27:59
was still a massive hit. Before Jaws, no film had taken
2:28:02
more than $100 million in the US Jaws ended up taking $260
2:28:07
million. Wow.
2:28:08
Wow, yeah. And globally, it took $470
2:28:14
million at the box office, which made it by far and away the
2:28:17
highest course in film ever at the time.
2:28:20
Outrageous. Yeah, in today's money, that's
2:28:23
$2.7 billion. Jesus, I don't think it was that
2:28:27
much. And it's regarded the first of
2:28:30
us to my blockbuster. I mean, literally one of the
2:28:32
biggest and most significant movies ever made.
2:28:35
Yeah. And Spielberg said.
2:28:37
I think Jaws would have made half the money if the shark had
2:28:39
worked. He's probably right.
2:28:41
Yeah, he's. Quite.
2:28:42
Possibly agree the film was also groundbreaking in advertising.
2:28:46
I've been basically changed the way Hollywood market had movies.
2:28:49
Prior to 1975, movies didn't tend to advertise on TV.
2:28:54
Universal created a TV ad campaign for the film and since
2:28:57
then basically every big film advertises on TV.
2:29:01
Yeah, one of them was that famous TV spot we played at the
2:29:03
start with Percy Rodriguez, like amazing voice where he's like,
2:29:06
it was as if God created the devil and gave him jaws.
2:29:09
Great light. Now I love it.
2:29:12
Should have given that the Salvatore.
2:29:13
He's one light. In the film.
2:29:17
And in 1975, films tended to open in one movie theatre,
2:29:21
usually in LA, and then slowly roll out across the rest of the
2:29:24
country in a staggered release. Doors opened in 465 cinemas
2:29:28
simultaneously across the US, and since then, 10 Paul films
2:29:32
have used the same kind of release schedule.
2:29:34
Yeah. And it's got bigger.
2:29:35
At the time of us recording this, the records now held by
2:29:38
The Lion King, the second CGI one that opened in 4802, cinemas
2:29:43
across the US. Wow, really?
2:29:45
All that kind of leads back to Jaws.
2:29:47
Yeah, yeah, movie merchandise and existed before Jaws as well
2:29:51
of course, but Universal turned film related products into an
2:29:54
industry in its own right. Games, serial, candy bars,
2:29:58
posters, clothes were all released with Jaws tie
2:30:00
insurance, something any big movie has done since.
2:30:03
Yeah. Give George look at some ideas
2:30:05
that didn't I think of. Course it is.
2:30:06
One or two, yeah. Hey, Steven.
2:30:12
Yeah, get Kenner on the phone. Yeah, behind the scenes footage
2:30:18
on George as well where Spielberg's wearing a Jaws
2:30:20
T-shirt, so they must have been getting made before the film
2:30:22
even came out. Yeah.
2:30:24
Yeah, and the poster played a huge part in that, too.
2:30:27
One of the most famous movie posters ever.
2:30:29
It was just signed by an illustrator called Roger
2:30:31
Castell. He was originally designed a new
2:30:33
cover for the paperback release of the novel.
2:30:36
When Zanuck and Brown saw it, they said they wanted to use it
2:30:38
for the poster for the film as well, which is fantastic.
2:30:40
It's the best poster put up in your bathroom.
2:30:44
Yeah, well, that was a wise decision.
2:30:45
I think he also designed the poster for The Empire Strikes
2:30:48
Back. Roger Castell.
2:30:49
Another good one. Yeah.
2:30:52
And Speaking of movie posters, that is the topic of our third
2:30:54
and final Patreon question. OK.
2:30:56
It comes from Dave. Hello, Dave.
2:30:58
Hello, Dave. Hello, Dave.
2:31:00
It's all a league of gentlemen there.
2:31:01
Look. Hello, Dave.
2:31:06
Dave. So Dave has asked, how much
2:31:11
should the promotional campaign drive the success of the movie?
2:31:13
And has there ever been a more simple but totally effective
2:31:16
movie poster in terms of imagery and font used?
2:31:20
So we've talked about the promotional campaign and I think
2:31:22
we can open this up a bit wider. So is Jaws the most effective
2:31:25
movie poster? If not, what is Matt?
2:31:31
I mean, it probably is, isn't it?
2:31:33
Soft answer. Yes, that's all I thought of.
2:31:37
Yes, thank you. Thanks, Dave.
2:31:40
No, it is true though. Just look at the numbers and you
2:31:43
know, where did those numbers come from?
2:31:44
It was driven by the proportional campaign.
2:31:46
Yeah. In terms of other really
2:31:49
effective ones, it's always the minimalist ones, isn't it?
2:31:51
I mean, you've got to throw Alien into the conversation.
2:31:54
Brilliant. Just the shot of the egg, the
2:31:55
strap line. Wonderful.
2:31:57
Scream is an incredibly effective poster.
2:32:00
Just that course of. Drew Barrymore's facing, What
2:32:02
the fuck is making her scream have to say that?
2:32:05
And also Halloween as well, which is just sort of under the
2:32:10
the knives forming the shape of the pumpkin.
2:32:13
Yeah, well, I've had movie posters on my wall, like all of
2:32:16
us, probably for years, in every place I've lived, all kinds of
2:32:19
stuff. And the constants always been
2:32:21
Jaws. I think it probably is the most
2:32:23
effective movie poster. It's like an extraordinary
2:32:25
image. I haven't even described it, and
2:32:27
everyone knows what we're talking about.
2:32:29
Yeah. I mean, it's incredible work by
2:32:30
Roger Castell, but like, great, simple but effective posters for
2:32:34
me. I love The Thing by Drew
2:32:36
Suzanne. Yeah.
2:32:37
Even though it has nothing to do with the film.
2:32:39
No. Yeah, brilliant.
2:32:41
Did the thing in 24 hours. Wow.
2:32:43
Because the other poster designer pulled out to he's
2:32:45
like, well, what's it about this thing?
2:32:47
And I know it goes OK and then delivered it in 24 hours.
2:32:50
It's fantastic and also Raiders, the illustration, the game drawn
2:32:53
by Drew Suzanne and also the one by Richard Amsell where he has
2:32:56
the whip over his shoulder. Yeah.
2:32:58
Brilliant and also actually a Vertigo by sawbass.
2:33:01
Timeless piece of design were that still a classic sawbass?
2:33:04
Yeah. So yeah, well, that's some of my
2:33:06
favourites, but there's loads that I love, yeah.
2:33:08
Yeah, I mean, from poster, is it one of the best or is it the
2:33:11
best? Suppose it's down to your
2:33:13
personal preference, but it's certainly in the conversation.
2:33:15
Yeah, some of my favourites. A sucker for Sawbass's one sheet
2:33:19
for Anatomy of a Murder. I always have been since I was a
2:33:22
kid. Brilliant, yeah.
2:33:23
Just something striking simplicity.
2:33:25
The Exorcist. Say no more.
2:33:27
The fact that it's a still from the film says a lot about
2:33:30
freaking's visual flair. That light beaming down from
2:33:33
Reagan's room on the father mirror.
2:33:34
And you see that you need to know more.
2:33:35
Yeah, and I'm thrown in. A controversial one or an
2:33:40
unexpected one, shall we say? Lovely Rambo.
2:33:42
First blood part, Stallone jacked up, topless, rocket
2:33:50
launcher in hand, a ball of flames behind him.
2:33:54
You know what you're in for. Suddenly he's not sly.
2:33:56
Strong point. Yeah, that reminds me more of
2:33:59
the computer game that it does with the film.
2:34:01
Yeah, I know you mean, but I mean, it's just effective.
2:34:04
You know what you're going to get?
2:34:05
He's going to go to Vietnam and rescue some people.
2:34:07
Brilliant, I mean. With the rocket launcher.
2:34:10
And Wester used for me. You have 50 answers for this
2:34:12
question. Yeah, I know.
2:34:15
But I've, I've just kind of break it down a little bit.
2:34:17
I've collected movie posters for as long as I worked at the
2:34:19
cinema and I started there in 99.
2:34:21
So we kind of had the advantage of getting some bits and bobs
2:34:25
just kind of ruled from there. But for ones that really
2:34:27
impacted me and I think kind of teaser posters, I think the 1989
2:34:30
Batman poster brilliant is really, really impactful.
2:34:33
And for me, one of the best posters ever made because I was
2:34:36
so excited when I saw that that bat sign has never.
2:34:39
Looked better, I agree. And then if you look at the Jaws
2:34:41
poster side by side with The Dark Knight, so serious Joker
2:34:45
poster where he's just kind of right and it's the same kind of
2:34:48
blue. It's out of focus image of Heath
2:34:50
Ledger. And I think just that one, not
2:34:52
the rest of The Dark Knight, but I think that Joker poster was so
2:34:55
important for the market and it worked really well.
2:34:58
I've got Full Metal Jacket, which I think is just a really
2:35:01
important, brilliant, really important image.
2:35:03
And you just helmet with. Brilliant.
2:35:05
Born to kill, Born to kill. Born to kill on it.
2:35:07
It's just the peace sign. Just think, well, okay.
2:35:09
But the one that sticks with me is I was walking through the
2:35:11
cinema Metal agree with me because I said to him, what the
2:35:13
fuck is this? I think I know what you're going
2:35:15
to say. I know what you're going to say
2:35:17
do. You want to say at the same
2:35:18
time. 123 player which? Project absolutely correct.
2:35:21
I've got every single player. Which project?
2:35:23
Poster and that one for me. Just that tagline, that image
2:35:27
where it's just bleached, it's white.
2:35:28
You don't know what the fuck's going on.
2:35:30
That is a poster. And obviously, Jaws in the
2:35:34
bathroom. Time for the critics and 1st
2:35:38
off, Roger Ebert. What did Roger think of George
2:35:40
in 1975? Do we?
2:35:41
Think, oh, he fucking loved it. He.
2:35:43
Loved it. It's got to be 4 on 4.
2:35:45
Got to be full marks. Of course he gave it four stars
2:35:48
out of four. It's Roger.
2:35:49
Of course he did. Of course he.
2:35:50
Did. He knows he's.
2:35:52
Sultan. He said a sensationally
2:35:55
effective action picture, a scary thriller that works all
2:35:58
the better because it's populated with characters that
2:36:00
have been developed into human beings.
2:36:02
It's as frightening as The Exorcist.
2:36:05
I disagree. He was doing so well.
2:36:09
To be fair, it wouldn't have been a brave critic I think slam
2:36:12
jaws about then. Yeah, 2, right?
2:36:15
Pauline Kale said it's the most cheerfully perverse scare movie
2:36:18
ever made, with more zest than an early Woody Allen picture, a
2:36:22
lot more electricity, and it's funny in a Woody Allen sort of
2:36:26
way. Disagrees again.
2:36:29
That's ridiculous. Looks triggered by these
2:36:32
reviews. You made these up.
2:36:34
And I just have the most ridiculous one.
2:36:36
Just triggered everybody's whole sensibility, like Woody Allen,
2:36:38
The Exorcist, What's next? But yeah, Woody Allen influence
2:36:41
on Jaws, is he? Yeah, and.
2:36:45
Also write your own predator draw there as well.
2:36:47
We may get cancelled if we do it.
2:36:49
Yeah, fair enough. And in a retrospective of you,
2:36:53
Empire magazine obviously gave Jaws five stars out of five,
2:36:56
saying. Definitely.
2:36:57
It delivers an astonishingly effective thriller built on a
2:37:00
very primal level. Fear on a sheer cause and effect
2:37:03
basis. It could be Spielberg's finest.
2:37:07
Could be. But not for Wesley.
2:37:09
Nope. Not.
2:37:13
Enough acts, it's the same. But it's not as good as Radius.
2:37:16
That's it and the story. So today on Rotten Tomorrow's it
2:37:20
has a 90% approval rating from audiences and 97% from critics.
2:37:25
Big time. Over an IMDb it's 8.1 out of 10
2:37:28
and at the Oscars draws as we've said, was nominated for best
2:37:32
picture but did win best sound, best film Editing and best
2:37:35
original score in. Infamously, Spielberg filled
2:37:38
himself when the Oscar nominations went out, so there's
2:37:41
footage of him reacting to the nominations.
2:37:43
That's. Heartbreaking.
2:37:44
It is you get. A little bit of sick
2:37:46
satisfaction from that I. Mean, if you make that amount of
2:37:48
money, you're fairly confident, right?
2:37:50
Yeah. But I mean, it's heartbreaking.
2:37:51
You've got all these mates round, they've got some nibbles.
2:37:54
He's like, oh. It's sad little face.
2:37:56
It's awful. I got beaten out by Fellini.
2:37:59
Yeah, it's like that tennis sequence in Tenenbaums.
2:38:01
He's taken off one of his shoes. Yeah, I think when he was young
2:38:04
he used to carry a camera with him everywhere, Spielberg, which
2:38:06
is probably why he filmed it. But I mean, he was asking for
2:38:08
trouble filming that, to be honest.
2:38:10
Yeah, of course he. Was.
2:38:11
You should still do that now, to be fair.
2:38:13
So George was pretty successful. Highest grossing film ever
2:38:16
created, the summer blockbuster transformed Hollywood, cut a
2:38:19
point of the career of Spielberg, and still one of the
2:38:22
most popular films ever made. Not bad for a 27 year old with
2:38:25
one feature and Colombo under his belt.
2:38:28
Yeah, I'm shitting himself for all of the time he was shooting
2:38:31
it. Yeah, definitely not that
2:38:32
Colombo episodes fucking magic though.
2:38:34
I sure saw it coming, to be honest.
2:38:36
Yeah. Absolutely.
2:38:40
Sequels and influence. I'd love to see there were no
2:38:44
sequels to Jaws, but that's not true, is it?
2:38:48
Definitely. Unfortunately not.
2:38:49
What a way to start that one, OK.
2:38:51
Spielberg was briefly interested in doing a sequel.
2:38:53
He apparently wanted to do a prequel set up all the USS
2:38:56
Indianapolis, which might have been cool.
2:38:58
That might have been good. Yeah, you kind of know how
2:39:00
that's going to end. Yeah.
2:39:01
Well, Universal weren't interested in not, so Spielberg
2:39:03
went on to do other things, and we were left with Jaws, too.
2:39:07
Directed by, you know, Swark. That may or may not be the
2:39:10
correct pronunciation. That came in 1978.
2:39:14
Jaws 3D, directed by Joelves, the production designer on Jaws.
2:39:17
We talked about that was released in 1983 for some
2:39:20
reason. And then Jaws the Revenge.
2:39:24
That sounds good. Joseph Sergeant Director.
2:39:27
That was 1987. So yes.
2:39:30
Thoughts on the sequels Westie? I mean, I'm going to stick with
2:39:35
your pronunciation and say Gene Oswalk.
2:39:37
How did this guy get the gig? He did Bug in 1975 and then went
2:39:42
on to do Supergirl which was a massive.
2:39:45
How on? Earth, did he get the gig?
2:39:47
I don't understand it, but take Jaws out the equation.
2:39:50
Jaws Two is alright. Yeah, I agree it's not bad.
2:39:53
It's it's OK. It works as a film.
2:39:55
It's not the worst of the sequels.
2:39:57
I'm I'm so pleased I got Jaws 2, the best of them.
2:39:59
It's definitely the best of the sequels.
2:40:02
Brody's back. I would love to see Hooper back
2:40:03
but explains he's an anarchic which is fucking outrageous.
2:40:06
Fighting the thing. Yeah, I mean, it just kind of
2:40:09
just pulls it a little bit too far.
2:40:11
I think the sharks a little bit better.
2:40:13
And then you go, well, the problem isn't the shark.
2:40:15
The problem is the actors that you've brought onto the film who
2:40:18
is tipping gasoline on themselves and then shooting a
2:40:20
flare into the board. Like it's just comical.
2:40:24
It feels like every element of this is crowbarred in to kind of
2:40:28
go, look, it's kind of the same as the first one.
2:40:30
It has the same kind of beats. Look, ciders back in there.
2:40:33
Look, Jesus, he's scared of the water again.
2:40:35
But he's shown up and these kids are and they've totally
2:40:38
miscommunicated what they think works from Jaws one.
2:40:41
It's nothing to do with any of that.
2:40:43
So to me, JAWS Two is it's a product of its time and it tried
2:40:46
to be JAWS One again with a little bit more zest to it, but
2:40:51
it doesn't really work. But you know, it's all right.
2:40:54
It's all right. It's fine.
2:40:56
It is definitely the best of the sequels.
2:40:57
Yeah, it had its moments. I like the killer wheel caucus
2:41:00
on the beach at the start. Yeah, the scene where I think
2:41:02
it's Eddie and Tina are on their board and Eddie gets killed,
2:41:05
That seems good. It is.
2:41:06
But mostly it's just a bit unremarkable, I think.
2:41:08
Replacing Quinton Hubert with a bunch of bog standard movie
2:41:11
teenagers? That's never going to fly.
2:41:13
They've kind of went, oh, what's the slasher movie doing at the
2:41:15
minute? Let's put teenagers in the water
2:41:17
with the shark. That's why they're in there, I
2:41:18
think, yeah. That's exactly the point, yeah.
2:41:20
Yeah, I'm going for draws 3 DI mean this one, it's clearly.
2:41:24
You're a braver man than me, yeah.
2:41:28
Star power in that film. Though, well, we'll get, yeah.
2:41:30
I mean, I think it's you're trying to piggyback on two
2:41:33
things. It's piggybacking on the
2:41:35
popularity of SeaWorld at the time and the popularity of 3D,
2:41:41
which I mean, it's just a shame I don't have a three DTV
2:41:44
because. Who does?
2:41:46
Well, that's the thing. I could have experienced those
2:41:49
3D shots in all their incredible glory, and I'm just so
2:41:54
devastated that I didn't get to see that because all I was left
2:41:57
with was a boring story which shoehorns the Brody brothers in
2:42:04
in just the most pointless manner imaginable.
2:42:07
Why does it have to be about the brodies?
2:42:10
You know it doesn't need to be them.
2:42:12
And you've got kill scenes that are just totally devoid of any
2:42:15
kind of tension or ingenuity whatsoever.
2:42:18
Like, most of you can't really tell what's going on.
2:42:21
It's just a lot of screaming and a lot of fashion, and the only
2:42:23
slight entertainment you do get is from how bad those effects
2:42:26
are. That shot that's supposed to be
2:42:28
terrifying. If the shark gliding towards the
2:42:30
control room underwater. Laughable.
2:42:33
It's laughable. No movement to it whatsoever.
2:42:36
It's such a couldn't pay a stop. So yeah, it's awful.
2:42:39
I mean, the film itself, it's a real stinky.
2:42:41
You can't even get like trashy fun out of it.
2:42:44
It's really boring. It's your biggest put down is
2:42:47
like a real Stinger always. Has been written by Carl
2:42:50
Gottlieben and Richard Matheson, this one together at last.
2:42:53
What a cowboy that is. Matheson I am Legend fame.
2:42:57
Yeah, for museum. Wow.
2:42:58
And it's set in the marine park, so they're trying something
2:43:00
different at least. But, I mean, it's still not
2:43:02
great. The effects work is awful,
2:43:04
especially that shot you're talking about.
2:43:05
Man of the Shark, Diabolical. The budget for this was $18
2:43:09
million, a more than respectable figure in 1983.
2:43:12
Yeah. So God knows where that went.
2:43:14
Yeah. On Louis Gossett, Junior,
2:43:15
presumably. Probably.
2:43:17
Dennis Quid's core cupboard at the time.
2:43:19
Yeah. Well, I've got nowhere to turn.
2:43:23
Have I back? Into a corner like Brody.
2:43:25
Back into the corner. This time it's personal.
2:43:29
Well, it certainly was yesterday because I had to revisit Revenge
2:43:32
for this segment. And you know, we try not to.
2:43:35
Well, that's flu in the face of this, but we try not to run down
2:43:38
films too harshly. But this film, like 3 but worse,
2:43:43
stinks the joint up. Yeah.
2:43:46
Nobody sets out to make a bad film, but I don't think that's
2:43:49
true of Jaws The Revenge. I really don't. 2% on Rotten
2:43:53
Tomatoes. So that's what we're starting
2:43:55
off with. Bad.
2:43:57
And this was directed by Joseph Sergeant, who did the taken
2:44:01
Appellant 123. Yeah.
2:44:02
Yep. Come on.
2:44:04
And there are so many nitpicks in the film, I'm only going to
2:44:06
pick a few out. Ellen Brody, Lorraine.
2:44:09
Gary somehow deduces that the shark came for Sean specifically
2:44:14
because he dies at the start. Yeah.
2:44:16
Yeah. A targeted killing.
2:44:18
All of a sudden, she's got a sixth sense for detecting when a
2:44:20
shark is attacking her family, and she has visions of events
2:44:24
from the film series when she was never present in those
2:44:27
scenes. He actually like got psychic
2:44:29
powers or something like the shining mental.
2:44:31
Yeah, like, why does the Jaws series just say, well, what's
2:44:33
really popular right now? Teen slashers?
2:44:35
Jaws two. All right, 3D3D3D.
2:44:38
Yeah. And then it's like.
2:44:40
Mario Van Peebles. Get him in.
2:44:42
Yeah, I love a bit of peoples though.
2:44:44
I mean, the idea that the shark has a murderous vendetta is the
2:44:47
most insane concept. In movie history, it is great.
2:44:51
And add to that that the shark knows where Ellen is going from
2:44:55
Amity down to the Bahamas. What did he overheat?
2:44:57
A conversation in a bar? He's got the flight details.
2:45:01
It's absolutely insane. Smell of perfume?
2:45:04
Yeah, it's got a 90 minute runtime, which is way too long
2:45:08
for this. It's an abomination.
2:45:10
The editing is the worst I've ever seen in any film.
2:45:13
It's terrific. It is terrible.
2:45:15
The shark roars at one point as well when it comes out of the
2:45:17
waters, because what the fuck? And the way it dies, Ellen
2:45:21
impales it on the front of the boat.
2:45:22
Ludicrous, yeah, but it blows up.
2:45:24
And it blows up how? Yeah.
2:45:27
What you do have in there though, is Michael Caine, who
2:45:29
plays Ellen's Love and Dress Orgy and there's a very famous
2:45:32
quote from him when he was asked about it, he said.
2:45:35
I've not seen the movie, but I have seen the house that I
2:45:37
bought and it's very nice. Yeah, classic quote.
2:45:41
That quotes the best thing about the film.
2:45:44
It is. If it has 2% of Rotten Tomatoes
2:45:46
now, must have gone up because it was 0% at one point.
2:45:50
Wow. All right, so somebody likes it
2:45:52
somewhere, but you're Wesley. I'm not saying a thing about
2:45:56
revenge. Maybe have a software double
2:45:58
feature with space on it? Back to the original and
2:46:03
probably the best of the Jaws films then.
2:46:06
We've talked about its impact on marketing in the commercial side
2:46:08
of Hollywood. What about elsewhere?
2:46:10
What's the influence and legacy of Jaws, do we think?
2:46:14
I mean it's in a calculable really.
2:46:15
There's not that many films which are film zero in so many
2:46:19
ways. The entire subgenre of Shark
2:46:22
Attack movie starts here and you get ones that do take themselves
2:46:25
relatively seriously, like the Shallows from a few years ago or
2:46:29
open water to the seemingly never ending director streaming
2:46:33
nonsense like Sharknado. Last time I checked 6 in there.
2:46:37
By my count, 6 films like Shark Exorcist, Shark to Puss.
2:46:43
I'm sure Luke is going to be there for that one.
2:46:45
Jurassic shark. That's the one.
2:46:46
Jurassic shark? That's another one.
2:46:49
Brilliant. Wonderful, I directed that.
2:46:54
But she's making notes yet. Couldn't get John Williams.
2:46:57
That's why it's shit. And then you get ones that kind
2:47:00
of struggle, the line in between, you know, something
2:47:02
like Deep Blue Sea, the Meg Under Paris.
2:47:05
And then obviously, as we've said, the entire concept of
2:47:07
summer blockbuster that starts here.
2:47:09
And no little thing that a kick started Spielberg's career
2:47:12
either, saw it's a film that genuinely did shape cinema and
2:47:15
the way we understand it today. Absolutely.
2:47:19
Yeah, I mean where did you start with this?
2:47:20
And very much like what Matt's saying, the film laid the
2:47:23
foundation for the 80s summer blockbuster.
2:47:25
The industry responded because they knew how much money they
2:47:28
could make. The auto LED movies of the 70s
2:47:30
were dead in the water after that.
2:47:32
Obviously there were other factors of course, but this is
2:47:34
certainly one of them. And then you've got those
2:47:36
imitators that came in it's way, countless imitators, alligator
2:47:40
piranha, etcetera. Yeah, and every shark film
2:47:43
that's been made since, like you said, My Deep Blue Sea, The
2:47:45
Shallows have been greatly influenced by, and every shark
2:47:50
film that I've seen since all pay homage to Jaws in one way or
2:47:53
another. Always the tip of a hat.
2:47:55
Yeah, I have to, yeah. Yeah.
2:47:56
It's got a huge legacy, probably like you were saying, Film Zero,
2:48:01
possibly the biggest in cinema history.
2:48:04
Yeah, it's up there for sure. I mean, obviously it was the
2:48:07
film that made Stevens below his career, and he went on to become
2:48:10
one of the most powerful figures in Hollywood.
2:48:12
And it being the first blockbuster, it created the path
2:48:14
that the huge names have followed.
2:48:16
George Lucas, James Cameron, Peter Jackson, Christopher
2:48:19
Nolan, Marvel Studios. That kind of lineage is traced
2:48:22
back to Jaws. And it was a cultural phenomenon
2:48:25
as well, to the point where it kind of transcends being a movie
2:48:28
almost. Yeah, totally.
2:48:29
I think people's general perception of sharks, especially
2:48:31
great white sharks, is massively influenced by Jaws.
2:48:34
Didn't Pete eventually later say that he regretted the image the
2:48:37
film had given sharks or something like that?
2:48:38
Yeah, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, shark killings went up, I
2:48:41
think, when a lot of them are just innocently swimming along.
2:48:44
Yeah, I mean it's based on your book piece, to be honest.
2:48:47
So you. Started this.
2:48:49
Man, take some responsibility. Your hands on clean.
2:48:52
You started the fire. For Fire.
2:48:56
But yeah, But yeah, there's a guy called George Burgess, who
2:49:02
was the director of the Florida Shark Research Program in the
2:49:04
70s, and he said that Jaws made sharks like a trophy prize for
2:49:07
fishermen. And in the years after the film,
2:49:09
the number of large sharks fell by 50% on the Eastern Seaboard,
2:49:13
and great whites are now a protected species in some areas.
2:49:16
So the numbers are coming back up, thankfully.
2:49:18
But yeah, that just shows the kind of impact this film had.
2:49:20
It goes beyond Hollywood, I think.
2:49:22
It does, absolutely. Yeah, I think it goes beyond a
2:49:26
lot of what we would deem to be an epic film.
2:49:29
I think it was a massive influence on Lucas, especially
2:49:32
the way that it was merchandised, the way that it
2:49:34
made so much money, the way that it was absolutely a real
2:49:36
problem. I think this was a massive
2:49:37
influence on Star Wars, definitely, to be honest, and no
2:49:40
one really touches on that. Totally, I think surely the
2:49:42
Death Star blowing up. Yeah.
2:49:44
Is the sharp, Yeah, it's kind of all there.
2:49:47
And then Star Wars will know the impact that's had.
2:49:49
So I think without Jaws, we don't really have the Marvel
2:49:53
Cinematic Universe. We don't really have the big
2:49:55
blockbuster, we don't have the big cinema experience.
2:49:58
We don't have the big musical beats that actually match the
2:50:01
images, I think. But before that it was just kind
2:50:04
of AI hope this works. It's going to be a really
2:50:07
personal view and people start to think about the audience
2:50:10
after Jaws. But at the same time, they also
2:50:13
thought, I'm going to make this really personal to me because if
2:50:15
Spielberg can make it on this budget with all these problems
2:50:19
and make all this money, then I can do it as well.
2:50:21
And I think it opened the door to a lot of film makers and give
2:50:23
them a lot of influence and a lot of confidence.
2:50:25
And I think that's what Spielberg did with Jaws
2:50:27
especially, and still works now, like Ari, I still turn around
2:50:30
and go, Jaws is one of the most inspirational films.
2:50:32
He makes nothing like Jaws, but his films feel like Jaws.
2:50:36
They've got the same pace, they've got the same tone,
2:50:38
they've got the same confidence. And I think what Jaws has done
2:50:42
in its influence and in its legacy has given film makers
2:50:46
confidence. And even when it fucks up, just
2:50:48
trust the process. Yeah, I think it was Eli Roth
2:50:50
said that the Jaws log taught him how to make films just
2:50:53
reading that. Yeah, exactly.
2:50:54
Bloody hell, SO3 sequels to Jaws, and surely it's a matter
2:50:58
of time before they do a reboot or something, I think.
2:51:00
But in terms of box office, influence on the industry,
2:51:03
influence on film makers and influence on the world beyond
2:51:06
Hollywood, there's few films have had the kind of impact that
2:51:09
Jaws had. It's second and on.
2:51:12
Yeah, all the right movies ranking.
2:51:19
And here we are. That is the head, the tail, the
2:51:21
whole damn thing. And now is the time for the ATRM
2:51:25
ranking, where we each rate the film out of 10.
2:51:28
So, Luke, let's get it out the way for George.
2:51:31
OK. Your summary and score for
2:51:33
George, please. Josie George Well, we're talking
2:51:37
about one of the granddaddy's in film history here.
2:51:40
Yeah, then that's just George. That's just.
2:51:46
Back with iconic dialogue scenes, performances with one of
2:51:49
the greatest behind the scenes stories to boot as well.
2:51:52
Yeah. Yeah.
2:51:53
I don't know if it's five years in the podcasting game, but
2:51:56
Revisit and Jaws. This time around, I've got a
2:51:59
much bigger appreciation of the film and its impact.
2:52:03
And like you said, Westie, I think you said it before that we
2:52:06
didn't really set a benchmark for scores before.
2:52:08
Not on the first episode, definitely.
2:52:10
Not, no, not the. First, Yeah.
2:52:12
And there have been a few Bob comments thrown my way since I
2:52:15
gave the film an 8 out of 10 when we first talked about it.
2:52:18
No one's forgotten it, yeah. No, nobody has.
2:52:22
So those people, they know who they are.
2:52:24
It's not just yours. It's not just yours.
2:52:26
It's not just George. They'll be happy to know that I
2:52:28
am going higher this time around, right?
2:52:30
OK. OK, but it's not full marks only
2:52:33
because it's never been an absolute favorite of mine, but
2:52:36
it's as near as damn it. 9.5 out of.
2:52:39
Ten. Wow.
2:52:40
OK, wasn't expecting that. Yeah, big, lovely And Westie, I
2:52:45
think I could probably predict your score, but summary and
2:52:47
score for yours please. Could you OK.
2:52:50
It's incredibly influential. It's incredibly important.
2:52:53
There's a lot of people really, really, really love this film.
2:52:56
But to me, it's not one that I'll come back to occasionally.
2:52:59
It's not one I'll come back to or it kind of sits in my Canon
2:53:03
where I'm inspired by it. I just kind of look at it and
2:53:06
go, well, that's not what I'm inspired by normally.
2:53:09
But like, it really works for me.
2:53:10
It really works as a film and it inspires so many other people.
2:53:13
It's so important as a film, but again, not one that I'll come
2:53:17
back to again and again. Those are the films that I've
2:53:19
given a 10 to, and Raiders of the Lost Star got a 10 for me,
2:53:22
which is Spielberg's best film. So I can't actually match that
2:53:25
because then I would just be shooting myself in the foot.
2:53:27
So I'm exactly the same as Luke. It's something I wouldn't come
2:53:30
back to over and over again. It's a great film, not perfect
2:53:33
for me, but a beautiful film. But still 9.5.
2:53:36
Why was that? I can't predict your score then
2:53:38
helmet. So I'll be lazy to sell you 10
2:53:42
in there as usual. Well, as I said at the start,
2:53:46
I've always been a huge fan of yours and can't imagine a time
2:53:49
when I won't be. To be honest.
2:53:51
It looks great. The inventiveness and variation
2:53:53
in the cinematography is masterful.
2:53:55
It sounds great. John Williams score is basically
2:53:58
movie music genius for me it feels great.
2:54:01
Totally. I think this has more edge than
2:54:02
the vast majority of Spielberg films and is the better for it.
2:54:06
It delivers just about everything you can experience
2:54:08
when watching a film, and all to a very high level.
2:54:11
If an alien came from Zita Reticuli and said to me, I've
2:54:14
got two hours, what's this movie thing I've heard so much about,
2:54:17
I'd probably show them Jaws and they'd probably give it 10 out
2:54:20
of 10. But I love Jaws as a showcase of
2:54:23
the natural talent of Steven Spielberg.
2:54:25
I love it as a piece of film, mystery and maybe most
2:54:27
importantly, I still love it as a piece of entertainment.
2:54:30
So I'm agreeing with my alien pal.
2:54:32
I'm giving Jaws the full mega pint. 10 out of 10.
2:54:36
Fair one. Great and City hands Matt to
2:54:41
bring it all home. Your summary and score for yours
2:54:43
please. Yeah, it's on that rarefied
2:54:46
level of films where it isn't any exaggeration to say it
2:54:49
changed movies forever. Nothing was the same after this
2:54:52
Spielberg's career was launched. He would then reinvent the
2:54:56
blockbuster time and time again. But he started doing it here.
2:54:59
And I think that's what ultimately stands out to me.
2:55:02
This is a film. It was shaping up to be a
2:55:04
disaster, But this young director, like I said earlier,
2:55:08
working on nothing but good instinct and thrown everything
2:55:11
he could think of at it in the hope that he could pull it
2:55:13
together, in the hope that it would work with the score, with
2:55:17
the photography. And it works spectacularly well
2:55:20
if I'm picking flaws. Yet maybe the shark looks a bit
2:55:23
crap at the end jumping on the orca, maybe the orca scenes drag
2:55:26
out a little bit towards the end.
2:55:27
But all the same, it's a miracle that it turned out the way that
2:55:31
it did. Is this best?
2:55:33
I go back and forth on that all the time.
2:55:35
But it is absolutely in that conversation, so I'm also giving
2:55:38
it a 10. Not surprised.
2:55:41
Well, we also put this out there to the shark infested board as
2:55:43
it is Twitter or X to get the thoughts of our followers.
2:55:47
Yeah, so Nicky by row at Nicky by row video said what an iconic
2:55:51
movie. A brilliant music score as
2:55:54
always by John Williams with a motif to go down in history.
2:55:57
Some amazing model work with the fake sharks.
2:56:00
I won't forget how effective the head jump scare was and still
2:56:02
is. Also, the Indianapolis speech
2:56:05
was perfectly delivered. Yeah, what a summary on
2:56:08
highlights. We should have just done that.
2:56:09
Save yourself 4 hours. Thanks, Holly.
2:56:13
Three hours, four hours and the rest.
2:56:17
Joe Fortunato at your Fortunato said Joe has changed my life as
2:56:22
an 8 year old in the theatre. I was so enthralled it made me
2:56:25
want to go into the entertainment industry for a
2:56:27
career I did for 15 years and now teach film, all because of
2:56:31
Jaws. Wow.
2:56:33
Wow, that's great. Powerful stuff.
2:56:35
Great. Awesome that jawsome, you might
2:56:37
say. You might Joe also posted a
2:56:43
picture of his license plate, which says Joe's fan.
2:56:48
Right. Yeah, really.
2:56:49
Yeah. Wow.
2:56:50
Obsessive. That's what Spielberg should
2:56:51
have done. Just Bond fan that would have
2:56:52
gotten the gig, surely. And one of our patrons, Kirsty
2:56:57
said 10 all day every day added to the list of traumatic films
2:57:01
and TV we were allowed to watch as a kid in the 80s, but is one
2:57:04
of my all time favorite films. Scary, funny, family drama.
2:57:08
It has it all that speech. Chef's kiss.
2:57:11
One of Spielberg's best Love this one.
2:57:14
Yeah, because she knows what she's talking about.
2:57:15
Of. Course she does.
2:57:16
Well, she's a parent, isn't she? Of course she does.
2:57:19
Exactly, so pretty unanimously positive leaning from our
2:57:22
followers and all together what do you think the rated JAWS out
2:57:25
of 10? Got to be a big time 10 hasn't.
2:57:28
It I'd say it's going to be a 10.
2:57:30
That's a nine. Of course you would, and of
2:57:35
course it was a 10. Leslie Miserables over here.
2:57:38
It's going to be a nine. In our paid 1 poll, 79% of the
2:57:44
voters gave it a 10. Wow, sorry guys.
2:57:49
I think George opened 500 new accounts.
2:57:51
So, Josie? George, What's his new name?
2:57:55
So in total, Jaws 49 out of 40, Best film ever by 9 points.
2:58:01
OK, yeah. And we're doing on Jaws.
2:58:04
I mean, for now, obviously. 5 hour episode next year.
2:58:07
No doubt, yeah, but no doubt yeah.
2:58:10
Hopefully everyone listening doesn't feel like they've been
2:58:12
chumming shit for three hours. Next time out, Luke, Westie and
2:58:16
Matt are coming out to play as you talk.
2:58:21
Walter Hill, NYC St. Gangs and the Warriors.
2:58:25
Yeah, yes. Apparently so.
2:58:28
At last. A cult classic, so it should be
2:58:30
a good one. I cannot wait for that.
2:58:32
I've been waiting for that. I've been waiting for the the
2:58:35
green light for these two guys to do the Warriors for a good
2:58:38
few. Years he has.
2:58:39
He's very excited about this one.
2:58:41
Yeah, me and Matt, maybe not as much, but no.
2:58:43
Yeah, fantastic stuff. Go good.
2:58:46
That's something. Good.
2:58:47
It'll be good. It will be funny though.
2:58:48
The Ultimate Warriors for You 3. Who did you write that one?
2:58:51
John, stop stealing my lines. Well, in the meantime, to find
2:58:56
out more about becoming a Patreon, supporting what we do,
2:58:59
and accessing our archive unbornness episodes, please
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visit patreon.com/all the Right Movies or you can click the
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2:59:08
Socially, you can keep up with all the Right Movies on Twitter
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or X where we are at. At Right Movies.
2:59:12
We post threads on there that tell the stories behind classic
2:59:15
films where everything that we post has been said by somebody
2:59:17
involved in the production or comes from three separate
2:59:20
sources, which is the same way it works in our podcasts.
2:59:22
Or you should go check that out. Yes, indeed.
2:59:25
You can find us on YouTube at youtube.com/all the Right Movies
2:59:29
for lots of other stuff beyond the podcast on Instagram
2:59:32
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2:59:34
right movies on Blue Sky. We are at All the Right
2:59:36
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2:59:40
of lots of great people and great film chats.
2:59:42
Yeah, sometimes about yours. So go enjoy that.
2:59:45
Occasionally. Yes, occasionally.
2:59:46
And us. And our website, full of great
2:59:48
features, is all the right movies.com.
2:59:51
Yes, it is. We're all off now to see if we
2:59:53
can get our names in the National Geographic.
2:59:56
Your photographer, Westy? Matter of time for you, isn't
2:59:58
it? It is a matter of time, yeah,
3:00:00
but I'll under the camp note and I'll just give you like boys.
3:00:03
Oh, boys. So farewell in Najia for now.
3:00:09
Please do come back for the Warriors, and as always, thanks
3:00:12
for listening. Thanks guys.
3:00:13
Thanks. Guys, thank you everyone.
3:00:35
What the fuck? Zita and Ricky lie.