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The 5-Step APPLE Framework That Quadrupled Customer Retention | George Bryant · eCommerce Podcast

0:04
Well, hello, my name is Matt Edmundson and you are listening
0:08
to the eCommerce Podcast.
0:10
Now I've been an eCommerce, uh, since 2002, and these days I get
0:14
to partner with eCommerce brands to help them grow, scale and exit.
0:18
And if you'd like to know more about how that works and if we could work together.
0:21
Head over to our website at eCommerce Podcast dot net.
0:25
You know the domain, buy now eCommerce Podcast dot net.
0:28
I go over there, click the links and find out more.
0:30
But today, ladies and gentlemen, I am, uh, I can't begin to tell you how much I've
0:35
been looking forward to this conversation with a man who is fast becoming a very
0:39
good friend, George Bryant, uh, all the way from the other side of the pond.
0:43
George was on the podcast just a few weeks ago, and George,
0:47
it has to be, it's fair to say.
0:48
We've never had anybody make a second appearance on EP in such a rapid time.
0:54
We've had people come on, you know, a, a few times, but normally there's
0:57
like six months or 12 months between, but you my friend, are back on now.
1:01
The first time we talked, we talked, uh, it was, it was like
1:05
a philosophical talking mean.
1:06
We talked about purpose, we talked about authenticity and mindsets in
1:10
business, and I love the conversation.
1:12
I'm excited because today we are talking about strategy and tactics and frameworks
1:18
and all of those awesome things that you learned doing all those incredible things
1:22
you have done in business over the years.
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So, George, welcome back brother.
1:26
It's great to have you.
1:28
Bro, I'm, I'm stoked to be back and, and for everybody listening for the second
1:31
time, you've earned the strategies and tactics, but it's important to know
1:34
the what and the why underneath them.
1:36
I do this, I do this in my events too, and they're like,
1:39
when are we getting to the how?
1:40
I'm like, you have to earn the how, because you have to know the what and
1:42
the why first or the how never sticks.
1:44
And so I'm, I'm stoked and, and I'm honored to be back my friend.
1:48
Oh no, let's get into it.
1:48
Let's get, should we just jump straight in?
1:50
I mean,
1:50
time is is is against us already.
1:52
It's not really, but Do you know what I mean?
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I feel like if we don't start straight away, we'll just, we'll do,
1:57
we'll need a third episode, George.
1:59
Uh, so let's just jump straight in.
2:01
Where do you want hit first?
2:02
Yeah, I think, you know, for me, and I was actually really excited to
2:05
share all this, I think first I wanna start with customer journey, right?
2:10
Because everyone listen to this e-comm focus in e-comm, an understanding that.
2:15
Customer journeys are the kind of bread and butter of what we
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do, but I think there's also a lot of misnomers around the word.
2:21
And so I wanna start by kind of like defining customer journey for everybody.
2:25
And then I have a model that I love teaching.
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It's called The Triangle of Poop.
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You can thank my 8-year-old, he named it, um.
2:34
Okay.
2:34
It used to be called the Triangle of Death, but I've taught it so
2:37
many times and he's like, no, dad.
2:40
It's like, if anybody makes these mistakes, they end up
2:42
with a stinky pile of poo.
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And I'm like, I'm keeping it.
2:45
I, so I promised him I'd keep it, and it's like the three critical mistakes
2:50
that I see in, in the thousands of e-commerce businesses that I've helped
2:54
grow and scale just similar to you.
2:57
Then my bread and butter, which I very rarely share publicly, but
3:00
I'm, I'm excited too, is I have a, a communication framework.
3:03
It's like one of the most ubiquitous tools I have.
3:06
Um, and all you gotta do is remember the word apple, but it will
3:09
absolutely change the way that you build and design customer journeys.
3:13
It helps with retention, it helps with relationships.
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It helps move the needle in the direction that we're all designing and
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desiring for the needle to be moved.
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Right.
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And so before I. Define customer journey because you and I
3:26
operate in similar worlds.
3:28
I'm gonna say this so everybody understands this.
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I might have said this on the first podcast as well, but scaling a business
3:34
comes from retention, not acquisition.
3:37
It comes from retention and not acquisition.
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And we all know it costs way more to acquire a new customer than it does
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to keep one and increase that LTV.
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And the reason I say that is because retention comes from
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relationships, not transactions.
3:51
And so even in understanding customer journey, it doesn't
3:55
matter what product you sell.
3:57
You could sell a supplement, you could sell a belt, you could
4:00
sell batteries for all iCare, but no one's buying the product.
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The product is a bridge to a solution that they want in their life.
4:08
The product when most businesses made, just about the product creates a revolving
4:12
door where there's no community, there's no movement, and there's no endowment.
4:16
And so for me, what a customer journey really, really is in simple
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terms, is we think about a customer journey in the lens of a marathon.
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And you can't jump from the starting line to the finish line without
4:27
going through 26 mile markers, right?
4:29
Or 40 something kilometers for all my European people, right?
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Sure.
4:34
I think about customer journey and mile markers, right?
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So that's the first frame that I want everybody to understand.
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The second most important part is a customer journey doesn't begin
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When somebody gives you their credit card, it begins the moment you
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enter their awareness to a desire or a pain point in their life.
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Maya Angelou said it best.
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Nobody remembers what you said, but they remember how you made them feel, right?
4:59
And so.
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A lot of the times, even us, right?
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I don't know if you guys have billboards in the u, in the, in the uk like we
5:05
have in the us, but you drive down the highway, billboard, billboard,
5:08
billboard, billboard, billboard.
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And it was like, oh my God, I can't believe people pay for those.
5:12
They're so dumb.
5:13
They're so whatever.
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And then I'm like, all right, cool.
5:15
I'm like, you gonna a flat tire recently?
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They're like, yeah.
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I'm like, who'd you call?
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I'm like, oh, that place I saw on a billboard.
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I'm like, I guess it worked,
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Yeah, yeah,
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Right, right.
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And so there's a lot that goes into it.
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So for me, a customer journey.
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The way that I define it, it's a series of steps designed to get
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somebody from where they are to where they want to be, be with agency and
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autonomy without creating codependency.
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So when scaling a business, I can tell you this firsthand experience.
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One of the number one biggest pain points that I bump into
5:46
is increase customer service.
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Our customer service is through the roof.
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There's refunds, there's returns, there's emails.
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That's not a product problem.
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That's a customer journey problem.
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Yep.
5:57
That's a lack of communication and relationship building,
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and it happens by accident.
6:01
And so for me, that's what a customer journey is.
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And so if you think about it and you sell a a product, I've helped
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scale a ton of supplement companies.
6:07
Those are like, for whatever reason, my bread and butter, those are the
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ones that cut to the billion dollar valuations, is that if Susan buys a
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collagen and the collagen shows up at her house and she puts it in her pantry,
6:21
that doesn't help her or the company because now it's just shelf help.
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Yep.
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How many companies stop at, oh, Susan bought, because they spend
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90% of their time in acquisition and 10% in fulfillment, and then they
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wonder why their average returning customer rate is three months.
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I'm like, well, it's really, really easy 'cause Susan got hurt your product.
6:41
She used it for three days and forgot about it.
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Put in the pantry the second month.
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The subscription showed up and she's like, crap, I haven't been taking that product.
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Takes it for a couple of more days, puts it away.
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The third one shows up and it's too much for her to take.
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And so then she cancels her subscription.
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And what's her complaint?
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Her complaint is never, I didn't take the product.
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The complaint is the product didn't work.
7:03
Yep.
7:03
Right.
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And then Susan goes out to dinner with all of her girlfriends and
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Jane's like, Susan, I found this new product that I want to get.
7:09
It's this collagen.
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And she's like, you can't buy it.
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It doesn't work.
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Susan's not gonna be like, oh, I bought it and there's three hiding in my pantry
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that I didn't take consistently, because that's not how humans own things.
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And so a customer journey is understanding that no matter what your product
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or service is, the moment somebody says yes is where the game begins.
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It's not where the game ends.
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And so in that vein.
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There's three critical mistakes that people make when it
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comes to customer journey.
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IE, what my son has now aptly, nicknamed the Triangle of Poop.
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Okay?
7:40
So these three mistakes, they're applicable anywhere where we're
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communicating with a customer.
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So this might be somebody sends you a DM on your Instagram.
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This might be somebody sends you an email.
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This might be somebody puts their email in for a lead magnet.
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And in exchange for something, this might be somebody bought your product, right?
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So the first mistake we call, we call the zone of doubt.
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The zone of doubt.
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And so what we have to remember about humans, especially in buying
8:07
processes, is everything's an emotional based decision, right?
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It's not logic.
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And if everyone's like, oh, it 100% is, I'm like, when you walked into the
8:15
store to pick up a phone and then you're like, oh, I want it, you logically
8:18
convinced yourself, but then your wife got mad at you, or your husband's
8:21
like, I don't think you should do it.
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Or you thought about bringing it home and had buyers or more so something happened
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that made you feel unsafe or unwelcome.
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You're like, oh.
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Not getting it.
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Just like there's people listening to this that have called people
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like you and I, not us, and they're like, oh, I wanna work with you.
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And they get sold snake oil, and then they get in the process and they're
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like, uh, something doesn't feel right.
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I'm out.
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Right?
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So every decision a human makes is an emotional based decision.
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So what the zone of doubt is, it's really simple to understand and we're
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all guilty of this, myself included.
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The zone of doubt is when anybody's in a heightened emotional state down that
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marathon where we've promised them a next step or given them a next step,
9:01
and when they get there, they fall into what I call the black hole, right?
9:04
So if you've ever put your email address in for a lead magnet on the internet,
9:08
you're like, oh, I'm so excited to go get those three secrets to scale my
9:11
business in three minutes or less, right?
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And you're like, go to your inbox, you're excited.
9:16
Then you get to your inbox and it's not there.
9:19
And I always ask everybody what feeling pops up when you
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get there and it's not there?
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And they're like, oh, like I get upset.
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I'm like, or I can't find it, or it means I have to go look for it.
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Or I have to email the company.
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And I'm like, so now do you think you're gonna have a seamless experience or be
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as excited to consume that lead magnet?
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And they're like, no.
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Right.
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Or, we see this on Instagram marketing all the time.
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People are like, shoot us a DM and we'll send you the link in the next hour.
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24 hours passes, 48 hours passes.
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They're like, oh, I forgot to send it.
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Those are all the black holes, or even in your mind world.
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We'll go to conferences and people do this with business cards.
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Oh my God, Matt, it was so nice to meet you.
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Give me your card.
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I'll shoot you an email tonight.
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And then 14 days later, I'm like, Matt George over here.
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Do you remember me?
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And you're like, I have no idea who you were because I lost in that heightened
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emotional state and E-commerce, how it typically shows up is a little bit.
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It's a little bit more nuanced because I see this all the time,
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specifically supplement skincare to where Susan comes and buys a product.
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So she's like, oh, I just bought this product, and the first email
10:23
she gets is a discount off another product or an email not even
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associated with what she just bought.
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Yeah,
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So it doesn't always have to just be no communication.
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It can also be inconsistent and incongruent communication.
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yeah.
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The wrong communication.
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Yeah.
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the wrong communication.
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And the reason this matters so much is because it instantly erodes trust.
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It genuinely breaks it because human beings create unspoken
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contracts with each other.
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And I have an expectation that like if I go to a restaurant and I order a rib eye.
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That the rib eye's gonna come out to the table, not chicken.
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And if chicken comes out, I'm like, Hey, did you not hear me?
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Can I please have the rib eye?
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And they're like, no, no, no, you ordered the chicken.
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I'm like, are you gaslighting me right now?
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No.
11:05
Right.
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So I also have an expectation, like if I buy a product, that you're gonna
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tell me that I bought the product and you're gonna tell me what I'm gonna
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do with it and how I'm gonna use it.
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Right?
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And people forget about that because they're so focused on acquisition.
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So that's mistake number one.
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Mistake number two is what I call the ego journey.
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And this one is accidental for a lot, but it causes a lot of pain.
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And so the ego journey is when we're communicating with customers,
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somebody comes and buys our product where our messaging is focused on us.
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Instead of them.
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So it's I versus you language and, and I always give this example,
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and people laugh so loud, but any woman listening to this who has
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ever bought skincare on the internet knows exactly what I'm about to say.
11:49
She goes and buys this hyaluronic acid to tighten up her skin, right?
11:53
She gets an email that goes something like this.
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It's like.
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Hey Jane, thank you so much for buying our product.
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My name's George.
12:00
I've spent the last 14 years of my life scouring the jungles of Costa Rica to
12:04
find this one last hidden ingredient.
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And I have four board certified surgeons that are in my office.
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And I just wanted to say, we're so happy that you're gonna have healthy skin, so
12:13
here's a discount off your next product.
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And that happens all the time.
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Instead of being like, Hey Jane, how does it feel to have healthier skin?
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And we haven't even shipped your product yet.
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Truthfully, our commitment to you is to help you glow from the inside out,
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even if you don't use our product through being a part of our community.
12:34
And so we just wanna say welcome to the family.
12:36
And over the next couple of days, we're gonna be shooting you some emails on
12:39
like how to get the most out of the product, what mistakes to avoid and how
12:43
to even amplify your results starting today with your nighttime routine.
12:46
And so I just wanna say hello and if at any moment you wanna hit reply to this
12:50
email, it comes directly to my inbox and I can't wait to connect with you.
12:53
Yeah.
12:53
Super powerful.
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I pose that to audiences and everyone's like, I'm in.
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I'm in, I'm in.
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Right?
12:59
And so we accidentally fall into this ego trap because our default is, I, well, I
13:05
did this, or I created this product, but really what we should be speaking to is
13:09
them and what they're going to achieve.
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It's pacing, it's seeding.
13:13
So that's the second mistake, which we call the the ego journey.
13:17
I've seen this a lot before you, sorry, before you jump in, let me, I, I, I've,
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I've talked about the same thing, George, and this is why, why I'm, I'm smiling
13:26
and I remember I was, um, one of the conferences I was speaking at, I was, uh,
13:32
in front of a group full of, um, CEOs.
13:35
At a very famous hotel in, in, in, in the land down under.
13:39
And I was speaking to these chaps and I'm like, the way I phrase
13:43
it, I think it's is same thing, I phrase it slightly different.
13:45
The customer doesn't care about your story.
13:48
They care about their story.
13:49
Right.
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And you have to, you have to connect him with their story and, um.
13:55
And I said, let's take a case in point.
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I said, I, I ran this experiment.
13:58
I don't even know if it's still gonna work.
14:00
Uh, but I ran this experiment, which said, right, I want you to go to Google.
14:02
I want you to type in the word accountant and I want you to pull up the first
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accountant's website that you can see.
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And I pick on accountants because I trained as an accountant at uni, right?
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So, um, I feel like I have, I have some license there to make
14:15
fun of the accounting fraternity.
14:17
And so they all pulled up a website.
14:20
And, um, it was brilliant because what you had in the, in the top left corner
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was their logo, which was massive.
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And then the hero image was a picture of the outside of their building.
14:31
And guess what?
14:32
They shot the picture, their logo on the side of the building, and they had
14:36
this carousel image, and the next image was a picture of their business card.
14:40
Which had their logo just a massive on one side.
14:44
And it was, it was, it was absolutely hysterical.
14:47
And, and the headline established 35 years ago or whatever.
14:50
And I'm like, no one cares, dude.
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'cause that's your story.
14:52
Um, you, you're not telling this in the, in the light of the.
14:56
Of the customer and their story.
14:58
And so I think it's such an important point, right?
15:01
We love our logos.
15:02
We do, we're proud of our logos.
15:04
I love the eCommerce Podcast logo.
15:06
No one else gives a flying flip,
15:07
right?
15:08
And it's just, it is what it is.
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And it is true of everything about the story that I have.
15:13
Some people might be interested, but honestly they care more about their story
15:17
and we have to talk in that frame line.
15:19
A thousand percent.
15:20
And to your point though, to give people some, some credence and
15:23
runway here, people do care about our story after they've rewritten theirs
15:28
and become a part of our movement.
15:31
That's the difference, and that's the biggest part.
15:34
Well, that's community then, isn't it?
15:36
A thousand percent.
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A thousand percent.
15:38
Which is really the core of customer journey because to my previous point about
15:41
customer journey, when people focus on the product itself and then they make these
15:47
mistakes, they erode community because they relegate themselves to a transaction.
15:52
Because what that happens is somebody comes in to get a product and they
15:56
achieve the goal of the product.
15:58
Well, if it's transaction and they're done with the product,
16:00
guess who they don't need anymore?
16:02
You.
16:02
Exactly.
16:03
If they come in and there's a relationship and they're done with
16:06
the product, they stick around.
16:08
And by the way, 90 plus percent of marketing is word of mouth marketing.
16:11
And I will tell you right now for anybody scaling your company, you don't
16:15
recognize that the majority of your new customers do not come from you.
16:18
They come from other people talking about you in either a positive
16:23
experience or something they've gained.
16:24
And if you're not aware of this.
16:26
You won't like how they talk about you, and so it is such a valid point
16:31
and I love the way that you said it.
16:32
And so then.
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The third mistake, and the reason I'm rushing through these mistakes is because
16:37
the framework I'm gonna share with you, I'm gonna actually share exactly
16:40
how I took a company from a million a month to 2 million a day with five
16:43
emails, and I'm just gonna give them to everybody with the Apple framework.
16:48
And so the third mistake is what we call the fire hose.
16:52
Okay.
16:52
And this one we're all guilty of.
16:55
The fire hose happens accidentally, but it overwhelms customers
16:59
immediately after saying yes.
17:01
And what I mean by customers, I mean anybody who's paying attention to you.
17:05
So this could be somebody giving you their email.
17:07
This could be somebody DMing you on Instagram and asking a question,
17:11
and primarily it's somebody who buys a product or a service where we
17:16
accidentally create this overwhelm.
17:18
And so if you've ever bought a course on the internet, you've experienced this.
17:22
And I'll just explain what fire hose is through.
17:24
An email that you got.
17:26
Hey Matt, thank you so much for signing up for my customer journey scaling session.
17:31
It's so exciting to have you.
17:32
I need you to watch this 15 minute video, fill out this application, and then go
17:37
through these four onboarding videos in the next 48 hours before we get onto our
17:42
next call, and all of a sudden, nothing but reactance shows up in your body
17:48
because it's so overwhelming, right?
17:50
Or you buy a physical product from a company.
17:53
They've spent 30 to 60 days courting you to get you to say yes to this
17:57
supplement, and then they send you one email with 10 days worth of information.
18:02
Wonder why you don't read it, don't open it, and then immediately
18:05
drop you out of their newsletter.
18:07
That's called the fire hose.
18:09
Jonah Berger talks about this.
18:10
I have his book memorized at this point, but his book is called The Catalyst,
18:14
and it's what gets in the way of us becoming a catalyst for somebody's change.
18:18
That topic is reactance, and what happens is if we overwhelm people.
18:24
They actually start to become a bigger no than they were in the first place.
18:28
And every touch point that follows gives them more and more evidence
18:31
that they made a bad decision.
18:33
So the reason I think about customer journeys and mile markers is
18:36
because they're micro commitments that build confidence over time.
18:40
So the fire hose.
18:43
I do it on calls.
18:44
I do it on podcasts all the time, but I'm not selling you a product.
18:47
I'm not delivering you into a journey.
18:50
But I say this to people listening on, the easiest way to solve this when it
18:53
comes to building customer journeys, and I'll tie all this together for
18:56
everybody, is if you've ever raised a child between the ages of four and eight.
19:01
You are better at building customer journeys than you realize.
19:04
Or if you've ever worked with a personal trainer and you don't have children, you
19:08
have been an experience or a byproduct of an incredible customer journey.
19:13
And so I'll give the kid example first and I'm gonna, I'm gonna
19:16
tie all three of these mistakes into a solution given my son.
19:20
And I'm gonna use my beautiful son Branson 'cause I love him to pieces, but he.
19:24
No matter what likes waking up at 5:00 AM primarily on the weekends
19:27
when daddy's like, I'm not getting up at four today, I wanna sleep in.
19:30
Okay.
19:31
But Monday through Friday, he's like 5:00 AM ready to go, and every
19:35
day we have to leave the house at seven 30 to get to school on time.
19:39
As a parent, there's a lot of things we have to get done in the morning.
19:42
Breakfast, brush hair, brush teeth, put clothes away, make the bed, get our
19:46
lunch packed, check our homework, right?
19:48
All of it.
19:49
And so I say this to parents and I'm like, all right, cool.
19:52
If my son wakes up tomorrow morning at 5:00 AM and I say, Hey bro,
19:56
we have to leave at seven 30.
19:57
I need you to brush your hair, brush your teeth, pack your backpack,
20:00
eat your breakfast, make your bed, check your homework, and
20:03
meet me at the car at seven 30.
20:04
What are my chances of success?
20:05
Mm-hmm.
20:06
Yeah.
20:07
Tiny non nil.
20:09
Yeah.
20:10
But if I wake up with him and I say, Hey bud, good morning.
20:13
It's so good to see you.
20:14
And I acknowledge him and I'm like, Hey, today's just like every other day
20:18
we got all these things to get done.
20:19
And I prepare him and I'm like, and by the way, if we're done on time, we'll
20:24
have more time to play this morning.
20:26
Painting the picture of where he wants to go and be like, I'm just
20:29
gonna give you a couple tasks at a time, so I just need you to put your
20:32
clothes on and brush your hair and when you're done, come down for breakfast.
20:36
And then when he is done with breakfast, I'm like, Hey, now that
20:38
you've finished your breakfast, I need you to put your lunch in your
20:40
backpack and go brush your teeth.
20:43
When you're done with that, come see me because all we have to do is make your
20:46
bed and then we can play until we leave.
20:48
Somehow I magically get out the door every day on time.
20:50
Yep.
20:51
Yep.
20:51
I. I'm not giving him the marathon at once.
20:54
I'm giving him bite by bite by bite, and I'm increasing his buy-in
20:58
and endowment to that process.
21:00
That's what customer journey is, and for those that don't have a child, if you've
21:04
ever hired or worked with a personal trainer or a running coach, I'm like, Hey
21:07
Matt, I want you to be my running coach.
21:09
I wanna run a marathon.
21:11
I pay you and you're like, great, put your shoes on timer.
21:14
Go.
21:15
Let's see how you do.
21:16
We would never do that.
21:18
Or if you go into a gym to try to join a gym, the first thing
21:21
they do is they welcome you in.
21:22
They ask about what your goals are.
21:23
They walk you around and show you the equipment, and then you sign
21:27
up and they're like, Hey, I'll introduce you to this person.
21:29
Here's where this is.
21:29
Here's where this is.
21:30
There's this handholding process.
21:33
To build agency so that they can actually use the product or use the service while
21:38
a customer journey is doing and building the same exact thing to guarantee, not
21:43
that we sold a product, but that we help them get closer to their goal or
21:47
what we promised through that product.
21:50
By leading a child or a personal training client through the journey of our
21:53
product, and I've been challenged on this.
21:55
Someone's like, do it for batteries.
21:57
I'm like, done.
21:58
I can tell you how to store them, where to use them, how to set reminders in
22:01
your calendar, how to change them.
22:03
I've done this with physical therapists and optometrists, and the easiest ones
22:07
are physical products because what most of the time happens is we assume
22:11
that when somebody buys our physical product, they memorized the PDP.
22:14
The product detail page, I'm like, oh, they memorized it.
22:17
So because we have it on there, what ingredients are in there and how to use
22:20
them and when to take it, when it shows up, they're just gonna magically do it
22:23
every day and establish a habit that has never existed in their life before.
22:28
And I'm like, I'm not betting my business on that.
22:30
Never.
22:31
And I tell people all the time, and when I keynote to audiences, I was like, I
22:35
want everybody to be honest with me.
22:36
Put your hand in the air.
22:37
If your biggest fear in your company is that you're not
22:39
gonna find your next customer.
22:41
And 80% of the hands go up.
22:43
And I'm like, you're all gonna go out of business.
22:45
And they're like, why?
22:46
And I'm like, because if your fear isn't that I got a customer, but they didn't
22:50
use the product or get a result, you have no business being in business.
22:54
And that's where customer journey comes in.
22:56
So those three mistakes, when I teach them to people and everybody
22:59
listening, I ask you to take those and go audit your business.
23:03
Like where in, and I break it down in a couple buckets, but really
23:07
it's marketing, sales, and delivery.
23:09
Where in your delivery are people accidentally falling into a zone of doubt?
23:13
I. Is it because you're wasting the second most piece of wasted real
23:18
estate on the internet, which is the confirmation page, and the moment
23:21
somebody invests, all you're doing is reminding them how much money they bought.
23:25
How much money they spent instead of welcoming them to the family
23:28
or sharing something of value.
23:29
Is it, oh, we do send this lead magnet out, but all we're doing is emailing
23:34
the PDF and we're not emailing them.
23:36
We're not sending them any information.
23:38
We're not following up.
23:39
Right?
23:39
If it's in your sales, it's like, Hey, are we communicating effectively
23:43
with people when they reach out or are we just sending them a link?
23:46
And I ask everybody to go through and audit your business because these are the
23:50
leaks in businesses that cost businesses.
23:52
And most of the time when you and I are helping clients scale,
23:54
they think the answer is more.
23:57
And I'm like, yes.
23:58
But if you put more water in a bucket before you plug the holes
24:02
on the backside, you end up in this massive cycle of losing on both ends.
24:07
And you can't recover a broken relationship in the same way
24:11
that you can start the right one and keep them around forever.
24:14
And so this.
24:15
Three mistakes are like a diagnostic tool to be able to go and apply them
24:19
and look at where there are potential leaks that do have KPIs associated,
24:24
but most people forget about them.
24:26
They'll look at like, oh, what's my average retention?
24:29
But they won't look at what's causing it from the emotional
24:32
lens of the relationship.
24:33
Yeah.
24:34
So we all know that if we open our inbox every day, there's emails that we just
24:38
delete instantly, but then we know that there's emails we go open because we look
24:41
forward to how we feel when we're in them.
24:43
And so this is a lot of the soft skills that are required to actually
24:47
scale a company because scaling a company is about community, it's about
24:52
retention, and it's about relationships.
24:54
So those are the three big mistakes.
24:56
They're fantastic.
24:57
Yeah.
24:57
I just, I love that I've got those.
24:59
Sorry, the sun is glaring in my eyes.
25:01
It's just bouncing off the window.
25:03
Um, but yeah, I, I I love those, George.
25:05
That's great.
25:06
I love the, the, uh, the Triangle of Poop.
25:09
Um, I
25:10
think that is the name that is gonna stick with me for a long time.
25:14
The Triangle of Poop.
25:15
No, I love that.
25:16
And just to comment on, on something that you said, I, there's a great quote
25:19
that I've been using a lot recently.
25:21
Um.
25:22
Because as you know, we, we do, part of what we do is acquisition.
25:25
So we acquire the, um, businesses or we partner with 'em and get involved.
25:29
You can't, you can't fix a leaking bucket by adding more water.
25:33
Right.
25:33
You just can't.
25:34
And so the amount of businesses which I, you come across and go,
25:37
well, we just need more money.
25:39
And you go, what?
25:41
Really?
25:42
You can't fix a leaking bucket by adding more water.
25:44
And I think it's so true.
25:45
Some of the stuff that you're talking about, it's like these are the leaks.
25:49
Just throwing more people in the pipeline is not gonna fix my problem.
25:53
Uh, 'cause I've got a leaking bucket.
25:54
Right.
25:54
Mm-hmm.
25:55
um, you can spend, you can waste a lot of money on ads that way, there's
25:58
Mm-hmm.
26:00
And it's, I, it's the number one thing, like when I scale businesses, they
26:03
all think I make them money first.
26:05
90% of the time I save them money before we ever make them money because of
26:09
plugging those leaks in those buckets.
26:11
And so your point is so, so valid, and this is where I've seen so many
26:15
companies struggle because they fall into the more, more, more trap.
26:19
If I just get more leads.
26:20
If I get more attention, and what I say to people is, you can't
26:24
adopt any more children till you can feed the ones that you have.
26:27
That's a good, that's a good way to put it.
26:29
I think people do this.
26:30
My experience is people do this because it's easy,
26:33
right?
26:33
In the sense you to crank up ads is easy.
26:35
I can just go, well, let's just throw another 10 grand in
26:37
that I can measure that ROI.
26:39
What Google doesn't measure is the fact that Jean talked to a friend
26:43
Sarah down the road and what she said and what she didn't say.
26:46
So I can't see that it's, it's much more touchy feely.
26:49
Like, yeah, it's very soft skills, isn't it?
26:51
Like you were talking about.
26:52
And I think, um, we choose ads 'cause it's easy, it's a quick, dirty,
26:56
easy thing to do when we're in a rush to try and grow our business.
26:59
And I think
26:59
A thousand percent.
27:01
there's so much we're leaving on the table when we do that.
27:04
Oh my God.
27:04
I, I, we could do a three hour series on just that alone and reputation
27:09
and relationship management.
27:10
But here's my litmus test and I ask every single client of mine, 'cause
27:14
all I do just like you is I go behind the scenes and I'm like, call me.
27:18
I got you.
27:19
I'll help you scale over the next six to 12 months.
27:21
But I always start with the same first question, and I would never do this to
27:24
you because you'd be okay with this, but I'd be like, oh, you sell a product?
27:27
They're like, yeah.
27:27
I'm like, amazing.
27:29
Would you click on your ads?
27:31
Would you convert on your product?
27:33
And even better if your wife or partner went through your funnel,
27:38
would you be happy about it?
27:41
Nine outta 10 times, I get a deer in headlight look, and I'm like,
27:44
okay, then let me ask you a question.
27:48
Why is it okay that my partner goes through it?
27:50
Mm-hmm.
27:52
You want more of them and you want me to turn around and tell
27:55
other people to come through it.
27:56
That's not from pouring more gasoline on the fire.
28:00
That's from solving the holes.
28:01
And I find it's the one of the struggling, like hardest and most struggling litmus
28:05
tests to give people is if you actually went through yours as a consumer, number
28:10
one, would you feel good about it?
28:12
But number two, would you get the desired result that you're
28:15
actually promising people?
28:16
Because without that.
28:18
Nothing can actually scale, so you will just do what you said and pour
28:22
more money down the toilet, which is why it's called the triangle of poop.
28:24
'cause that's where it belongs, is in that toilet.
28:27
So good.
28:29
George, let's move on to Apple because,
28:31
uh, I'm keen, I'm keen, I always like talking about Apple, but I
28:33
think yours is a very different form
28:35
Yeah, mine's.
28:35
Mine's very, very different to Apple.
28:37
And so I'm gonna frame this really, really quickly because
28:39
this is the most ubiquitous model.
28:41
I've been teaching this model for over a decade.
28:43
It has not changed once, and it is the number one reason
28:46
I've scaled so many companies.
28:47
Okay?
28:47
So when I say ubiquitous, I mean it applies everywhere.
28:52
It can be used as a communication framework and team meetings.
28:55
It can be used when sending individual messages and customer service, and
28:58
it can also be used as a series of.
29:00
Steps in emails, and when I explain it to you, it will make sense and
29:03
I'll give everybody an Instagram example, a lead magnet example,
29:07
and a paid product example.
29:08
And so let me tell everybody what Apple stands for, right?
29:11
So Apple stands for the A stands for Acknowledge.
29:16
The A stands for Acknowledge.
29:17
Okay.
29:18
The first P stands for Prepare, prepare.
29:23
The second P stands for project.
29:28
The L stands for, let them know, and the E stands for excite.
29:35
So it's acknowledge, prepare, project, let them know and excite.
29:40
Yep.
29:41
And what this framework is, it's a communication framework to get
29:45
any customer at any mile marker from mile marker to mile marker,
29:50
from mile marker to mile marker.
29:52
So the easiest way for it to resonate with everybody before I even teach what
29:56
each step is, is to give you an example.
29:59
So I'm just gonna take a physical supplement product, and I gave you
30:02
an example earlier of you buy a product, you get that email, but
30:06
what typically happens now is someone will buy a physical product, like
30:09
a supplement, they'll get an email.
30:10
It's just like, welcome to the family, your product's on the way, and
30:14
then they'll drop into a newsletter of just ongoing emails, right?
30:18
Eh, don't do it.
30:20
Okay.
30:21
So in this lens, what I do, especially for physical products, is because
30:25
I've spent an amount of time courting people, and I also don't want a
30:28
supplement customer to stay for a week.
30:31
I want them to stay forever.
30:33
I don't need to rush communication.
30:35
And so in this example, I use Apple with a different letter each day
30:40
before I drop them onto a newsletter.
30:43
And so if I bought a physical product, how am I going to acknowledge them?
30:46
Hey Matt, thank you so much for joining the family.
30:49
I'm stoked to help you add more muscle to your body and sleep better in the process.
30:53
Acknowledge, I write an email about acknowledging somebody, and what
30:56
I'm basically doing is closing the loop and I'm like, Hey, that choice
31:00
you made, it was the right choice.
31:01
Welcome to this new race.
31:02
Right?
31:03
Yeah.
31:04
And you're also talking in their story, aren't you?
31:06
You're, you've,
31:06
you've said, I'm helping you gain, you know, we are gonna get you
31:10
on your journey to gain muscle.
31:11
The reason I bought this product, you've tapped straight into that.
31:14
You've tapped into my story and you've closed the loop.
31:16
Thousand percent.
31:17
That is exactly what I'm doing.
31:19
I'm speaking into you and I'm also getting an emotional touchpoint and a connection
31:23
with you that creates ownership of a product, but also makes you informed.
31:27
Just like if you go to Apple and you buy a phone, they don't
31:30
let you walk out the store.
31:31
They'll say, Hey, do you want our help setting it up?
31:33
Yep.
31:33
They know if you go home and you get frustrated, it's going to destroy them.
31:37
But if you feel set up and confident, so they acknowledge you, but they
31:40
also guide you in the process.
31:41
Right?
31:42
So the acknowledgement step is what it's doing.
31:45
It's closing in the human brain, what's called the Zy Garic effect,
31:48
which is an emotional open loop.
31:50
Because somebody committed to something, and so we need to acknowledge them that
31:54
they made the right choice and close that loop so they can start the next race.
31:57
So the acknowledged step is really just closing that loop for a human
32:01
being to feel hli heard, understood, listened to, and acknowledged, right?
32:06
That's what people crave is to feel seen.
32:09
So what we're doing is meeting them where they're at, emotionally or situationally.
32:13
That's the acknowledged step.
32:14
Yep.
32:15
The prepare step is setting clear expectations for what's to come
32:20
while also reducing uncertainty.
32:23
So you buy this product, and I'm gonna use collagen, and just to frame this
32:26
for everybody, when I came into this company, they were selling this product.
32:30
They were selling it on subscription, and their retention was three
32:33
and a half months, and their LTV was $75 on a $49 product.
32:37
Right.
32:38
Somebody would buy the product.
32:40
They'd get one email that said, Hey, welcome, we're shipping your product.
32:43
Great drop on the newsletter.
32:45
All I did was put five emails in place and retention went from three
32:49
and a half months to 15 months,
32:52
That's a hell of a change, brother.
32:53
and the LTV went from 74 to 7,044 on the same customer.
33:00
With five emails.
33:02
Okay, so the first email was acknowledge, and I'm gonna
33:05
give everybody an example this.
33:06
Hey Matt, thank you so much for joining our family.
33:10
How's it feel to have healthier hair, skin, and nails, even though
33:13
we haven't shipped your product yet?
33:15
The truth is, is that our product is not the solution.
33:18
It's a tool to help you achieve this solution and get you there faster with
33:23
some other changes in your life, like your movement, your sleep, your nutrition,
33:27
which are things we're going to help you with as you're taking the product.
33:31
But because it takes the team five days to get it to you, I included
33:34
this guide at the bottom of the email for seven things you can do today.
33:39
To get started, so when the product arrives, you're already in a new habit and
33:43
we're here to guide you on the journey.
33:44
But like I said, we're here to help you with this, whether
33:47
you use our product or not.
33:48
So if you have any questions, if you have any concerns, you can reply to this email.
33:52
But we're really excited to see you in tomorrow's email where
33:55
we're gonna tell you how to get the most out of the product.
33:57
That was the acknowledge email.
33:59
That was it.
34:00
Yep.
34:00
Then I move into the prepare email and I'm like, well, what am I preparing them for?
34:04
I'm like, well, they don't know how to use it.
34:05
They don't know what to mix it with.
34:06
They don't know where to store it.
34:08
Things that we take for granted, and we make assumptions, but we don't
34:12
communicate them, and one of the things I say to people is leadership
34:15
is saying the same thing as many times as required to the last person gets it.
34:20
Newsflash.
34:20
Every personal trainer for the rest of your life will tell you to sleep,
34:24
drink more water, and move your body.
34:26
Okay, so in the prepare email, it was like, Hey, Matt, we're getting close to
34:32
shipping your product, but I wanted to give you some tips and tricks to use this.
34:35
So one of the things that we found effective is that when it arrives,
34:39
we want you to open the box and put it on your counter right next to your
34:42
coffee cup, because we think that mixing it in with your coffee or your
34:45
morning smoothies is the best way.
34:47
But if it goes in your pantry, you're gonna forget about it, and
34:49
that's not gonna help your skin.
34:51
Some of the other things that we found too, is if you wanna sneak
34:53
it in your kids' food, we found mixing it with soups and stews.
34:56
We'll give them the benefits of the collagen, but remember, it's
34:59
tasteless and the one that you bought mixes with cold and warm water,
35:03
and so you can't really go wrong.
35:05
And so just make sure that you start setting up for when it arrives so
35:08
you can get the most out of it.
35:09
Just a simple prepare.
35:11
I'm guiding them on the process.
35:13
So then we move into project, and what project is doing is casting the vision
35:18
of what their results are going to look like or what their expectations
35:21
should be so that we can seed it, but they can also look forward to it.
35:27
So in the project step, I was like, Matt, I'm super, super stoked.
35:30
And one of the things that I've learned, especially with this
35:32
product, is consistency trump's intensity every single time.
35:36
And so the more that you take this, the better you're going to feel.
35:39
And around 30 days, you're probably gonna notice this, and around 60
35:42
days you're gonna notice this, and 90 days you're gonna notice this.
35:44
And six months from now you're gonna be noticing this and this and this.
35:49
And so, because that's the goal, here's a couple really easy recipes
35:52
and ways that you can use it.
35:54
And also.
35:55
If you have any ideas, uh, you're gonna creatively reuse it.
35:58
Will you hit reply this email and let me know, because I wanna share them with our
36:01
audience so we can build a community here.
36:04
Little tactical hack.
36:05
The moment somebody replies to your email, you
36:07
saw what you did.
36:08
filter and you hit their inbox instantly, right?
36:11
So the project is painting the picture of what they're going to achieve and what
36:16
they're going to experience by taking it.
36:18
And I'm operating under the presupposition that they're going to take it.
36:21
Yep.
36:22
I'm not leaving any leeway.
36:24
I'm under understanding.
36:25
This is the presupposition.
36:27
When you take this in 60 days and 90 days in 120 days, if you cancel,
36:30
great, totally fine, but I'm gonna operate like you're not going to.
36:34
So then we move into the L and the L is let them know.
36:38
And what I used to call this was the pre handle, but the APE framework doesn't
36:41
sound as good as the Apple framework.
36:43
Okay.
36:44
There's way too many Ps in that framework.
36:46
I taught that framework for three years until someone's like, dude, if you just
36:49
call it Apple and change it to let them know, everybody will remember it better.
36:52
And I was like, changed Apple.
36:55
So let them know is really pre handling and what we're doing is we're
37:00
giving them logistical and emotional clarity in relationship to a product
37:04
of what potentially could go wrong.
37:06
So think every complaint that customer service gets.
37:10
You get those because we didn't let them know that it was going to happen.
37:15
And so we think through what objections come up for people.
37:18
What happens if I miss a day?
37:20
Oh, totally fine.
37:21
You can't really catch up.
37:22
But what I would do is set a reminder in your phone to take it every day
37:25
until you have an established habit.
37:28
Oh, can I mix this in cold and warm water?
37:30
A thousand percent.
37:31
So here's a little shortcut for all you e-commerce people,
37:34
whatever your FAQs are on your PDP.
37:37
Are the things that go in this email.
37:39
And the reason we do this is if you don't tell somebody they're going to get a
37:43
flat tire, and they do, they blame you.
37:46
Yep.
37:47
If you tell somebody they're going to get a flat tire and
37:50
they do, they call you for help.
37:52
Yep.
37:53
There's a big difference between communicating effectively.
37:55
And so what we think through is what could get in the way.
37:59
So we just guide them with a couple really easy challenge, solution,
38:03
challenge, solution and let them know, and that's all that goes in that email.
38:07
So then we move on to e
38:09
Sorry.
38:10
just, on that, George, before you jump forward, let them know how many, how
38:14
many FAQs are you putting in that email?
38:16
So this is really interesting.
38:18
So this framework, I teach it in the lens of five, but what ends up
38:21
happening is it normally ends up being between four to nine emails total,
38:26
depending on the product itself.
38:28
So sometimes we'll do an email that includes the ingredients that are in there
38:33
because there's three unique ingredients and we want them to be able to tell their
38:36
friends why they're taking it, right?
38:37
So I use this to kind of collect, but my rule of thumb is that I don't want to
38:42
be an inconvenience, and I have to earn the right to capitalize on your time.
38:46
And so if it takes you more than 30 seconds to skim and read
38:49
an email, I've sent too much because it's gonna overwhelm you.
38:53
And so if I realize there are like three, like let's say.
38:56
Three in one, but if I have like six or seven, I'm gonna break that
39:00
up into two different emails with a different storyline to make sure
39:04
that I'm hitting those wickets, but also not overwhelming you.
39:07
And so the dose is dictated by the product or the challenge and then
39:12
the audience who's receiving it.
39:14
But when I teach this, I teach this in the five steps.
39:16
So you can pull out the ingredients and then you can look at it and be like.
39:20
How would this feel for me?
39:22
Would this be too overwhelming?
39:23
Should I split this up into two?
39:25
Just like in the prepare email, if I'm preparing them for what
39:29
to take and how to take it.
39:31
Sometimes I have recipe ideas that come with it, but I'm not gonna put
39:34
'em all in one email, so I'll prepare them for like what to do in it.
39:37
Arrive.
39:37
I'm like, oh, and by the way, tomorrow I'm gonna share with you our three favorite
39:41
recipes where you probably have all the ingredients in your house already.
39:45
I just split them up to make it feel like it's easy for somebody to consume.
39:49
Like I'm their friend and they come see me every day and I get to give them one piece
39:53
of coaching advice every day to do this.
39:55
And so that's how I think about it.
39:57
Yeah.
39:57
Powerful.
39:58
Thank you.
39:59
So then the L is let them know, and then the E is excite, and the E is the
40:03
gun goes off, the race is here, right?
40:05
So in e-comm, when I come consult you, I call these product fulfillment sequences
40:10
because if I have three products and every one of them gets this fulfillment
40:15
sequence when it's own Apple, once I've taught you how to use that product.
40:19
Everything that follows is applicable to you.
40:21
And so the E is letting them know what the next steps are.
40:25
So it's completing that first mile.
40:26
I've indoctrinated them or onboarded
40:28
Yeah.
40:28
Yep.
40:29
So like, Hey, Matt.
40:31
Here.
40:31
That's everything that you need to know about collagen, and we stay in your
40:35
inbox because we love helping you achieve these healthier hair, skin, and nails.
40:38
So we're gonna be sending you articles on health and nutrition and sleep.
40:42
And if it resonates with you, I'd love for you to read it.
40:44
But even if you don't wanna read it, when you see my name in your
40:47
inbox, just use it as a reminder to take your collagen, right?
40:51
And what I'm doing is closing that loop and then I'm transitioning
40:54
them into whatever my ongoing newsletter or fulfillment sequence is.
40:59
Yeah.
41:00
Those are the five steps on how we do them.
41:02
And a tangible example is like, I just did this with a supplement company.
41:06
We acknowledged them and told them how much they love cacao.
41:09
We prepared them with two different emails.
41:11
One was about using the product, one was about the ingredients in
41:15
the product, and then one was about recipes they could make with it.
41:19
We projected out the peace that they would feel by having a ritual.
41:24
Then we were like, oh, we should record a video on YouTube for how to
41:27
have a morning and evening ritual.
41:29
So then it linked there, and then we hit pre handle or let them know in two emails.
41:35
And then on the Excite one, we were like, Hey, and by the way, that's all
41:39
you need to know about the product.
41:41
But if you want, we have a 21 day self-love series that if you click
41:45
on this link, we will email you every morning with your cacao knowledge.
41:50
On loving yourself over the next 21 days.
41:52
And they could either opt in or not.
41:54
And if they didn't, they just got our normal newsletter.
41:56
And if they did, we had 'em an email a day for 21 days.
41:59
But it follows the premise of acknowledge, prepare, project,
42:03
let them know and excite.
42:06
Now, one example for everybody listening, because I have to
42:08
close the Zy Garic effect of, I'll give you an Instagram example.
42:12
If you're doing lead gen on Instagram or on Facebook, or you have somebody
42:16
emailing in to ask for a resource.
42:19
What's the mistake most people make?
42:20
Matt, you shoot me an email or a DM and you're like, George, I love
42:23
your customer journey training.
42:24
Send it to me.
42:25
What do most people do?
42:26
Copy, paste, send complete missed opportunity.
42:30
So what do I do?
42:30
I apple you.
42:32
I'll write a message or record a quick video that I use over and over again.
42:35
I'm like, Hey Matt, thank you so much for reaching out about customer journey.
42:39
You'll be shocked at how many people have the problem and none of 'em ask.
42:43
Acknowledge.
42:44
I'm gonna send you a link to my customer journey series, and it's linked in a
42:48
Google Doc with a 15 minute video and a worksheet that's associated with it.
42:52
Prepare.
42:54
Project.
42:55
By the end of the video you'll know the three biggest mistakes everybody makes and
42:59
where they're happening in your business.
43:01
So you can plug them, project let you know.
43:04
If at any point you have any questions, you can just shoot me a DM and I'll
43:08
get back to you within 48 hours.
43:10
And when you're done with this training, I have another one on the Five Steps
43:14
Apple Framework, so you can go fix it.
43:17
That's everything you need.
43:18
Here's a link to the trading send.
43:20
Now all of a sudden we're having the same conversation with people except
43:24
one I'm guiding them and the other one, everyone's transacting with them.
43:28
And so this Apple framework, and here's a bonus tip for everybody, use it on
43:32
your spouse and use it on your team.
43:35
My partner jokes with me that we never fight, but she was a client first, and
43:38
then it took her six months to realize
43:44
Oh,
43:44
but go on, go on.
43:45
Tell me the story.
43:46
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm excited, George.
43:48
I'm, I'm,
43:48
appling her every single time we were communicating to now we apple each other.
43:53
So like I was getting on this podcast with you today and she's
43:55
off today, and so I opened my phone.
43:58
I said, Hey honey, I just wanna say I love you.
44:00
I'm getting ready to jump on Back to Back podcast for two
44:02
hours, so my phone won't be on.
44:04
Prepare.
44:05
As soon as I'm done with the podcast, I'll shoot you a text to see if I can call you
44:09
so we can catch up about this morning.
44:10
Project.
44:11
And by the way, if anything pops up, just text me and it'll be
44:14
the first thing that I look at.
44:15
So I love you.
44:16
Excite out.
44:19
You're offloading a task to a team member.
44:21
Hey Matt, like, thank you so much.
44:23
Like are you clear?
44:24
A hundred percent?
44:24
Hey, prepare, I want you to do this and do this because it will help us do this.
44:29
And by the way, if you get stuck at any point, just shoot me a text
44:32
or hit me up on Slack because I'm gonna be in and outta calls all day.
44:35
But do you have everything you need?
44:36
A thousand percent.
44:38
Kids.
44:39
Hey buddy.
44:39
Good job getting this done.
44:41
Hey, the next thing we have to do is this, so that we can do this
44:44
and here's what might go wrong.
44:46
Go do it.
44:48
So it is the most ubiquitous thing, and I mean I use it everywhere and
44:51
the more that you use it, the better you can communicate with people.
44:55
But what you're really doing is clearly communicating, managing expectations
44:59
and getting mutual buy-in so that the other person is just as bought
45:04
in as you are, which allows them agency to complete this process.
45:08
That's so powerful.
45:10
How did you come up with this to start?
45:11
Is this something you stumbled across or is this something
45:14
that you.
45:15
great question.
45:16
So, because we talked about my story on the last podcast, after
45:20
going through 10 years of trauma therapy, cognitive behavioral
45:24
therapy, EMDR, personal development, it's how I overcame my trauma.
45:30
And one day I had a client hire me and I'm writing all these emails.
45:35
I looked at it and I was like, I'm doing the same thing every time,
45:38
and this is how I've overcome every challenge in my life, and created a new
45:42
habit, and then I started applying it.
45:45
From the relational lens to e-commerce and business and coaches
45:49
and programs and event facilitators.
45:52
And then it was bananas and I had been using it without being
45:57
aware of it for a couple of years.
45:58
'cause it's how I naturally communicated.
46:00
And so then I turned it into a framework.
46:02
And so there's no place, it's not applicable.
46:04
Like somebody buys an event ticket for me, I apple them for a couple of days.
46:09
Until they're clear and the event might be in six months.
46:13
And so what I tell everybody is the way that you use Apple is you communicate
46:17
in relationship to the depth of the journey that somebody's taking.
46:21
So if I have somebody in like a 12 month mastermind, I'm gonna take a week or two
46:26
to onboard them in that ignite phase.
46:28
To help them get in.
46:30
If I'm sending you a 15 minute video that you can consume instantly,
46:35
I'm not gonna apple you for five days to send you a 15 minute video.
46:39
I'm gonna apple you for one minute to give you the best
46:42
chance of completing that video.
46:44
And so we use it in relationship to the depth of the journey
46:47
that somebody's taking.
46:48
But this is the number one thing I do for every client who calls me first.
46:52
And it's how I've scaled every single company.
46:54
And what I do is I always start with delivery because there's people
46:57
that aren't being fed right now.
46:59
Well, once delivery is done, now I know every next person that buys
47:03
is going to be handled correctly.
47:05
So then I move into sales and then I start applying it to lead
47:09
magnets and sales messages and conversations, and they're like, Ooh.
47:12
So now I know that this feeds this.
47:14
When that's done, then I apply it to marketing because now I have a
47:18
consistent and congruent journey all the way from somebody seeing a
47:21
reel, and I'm like, comment collagen.
47:24
I know the first message they get Apple's them.
47:27
They give me their email, they get appled on the back.
47:29
It leads to the product.
47:31
They get appled with the product, and every product is the same.
47:35
Creates a consistent, congruent and unconscious safety in their body, which
47:40
allows them to achieve these results.
47:41
And so we always work from the back to the front.
47:46
George.
47:47
What can I say?
47:48
Man, you're a legend.
47:49
Loved it.
47:50
Absolutely loved it.
47:51
I've got pages of notes, um, which is great.
47:54
I'm acutely aware of time 'cause I know you're recording in
47:57
another podcast in three minutes,
47:58
such as the demand.
48:00
Uh, if people wanna find out more about you, if they wanna reach you,
48:03
what's the best way to do that?
48:05
Yeah, I love it.
48:06
So number one, if you do, you're crazy and you're my slice of crazy.
48:09
I love you.
48:10
I am a man of faith.
48:11
Um, so if I've passed your litmus test, like thank you.
48:14
Um, what I'll, what I'll tell for everybody is the easiest place is my
48:18
website, which is mind of george.com.
48:20
It's pink.
48:20
It's loaded with podcasts about this, but my Instagram.
48:24
Is, it's George Bryant and it's linked there.
48:26
And if I opened any loops for you, if you're listening to this and you're
48:29
like, I'm a little confused, or I have a clarifying question, shoot me a personal
48:33
DM on Instagram and ask me whatever question you want about customer journey.
48:37
And I'll either answer it or I'll send you a free resource that I have to,
48:40
you can apply this to your business.
48:43
Um, but I will be honest, and I'm letting you know right now, I'm pre handling
48:47
you, that if you don't ask, I can't help.
48:49
And there is no silly question.
48:51
I have been teaching this for two decades now, and some of my team members have
48:56
heard it for five years, and they're finally like getting it where they can
48:59
Yeah,
48:59
And so it's one of those games where it's the most powerful tool that you
49:03
can have in your business, but it's a tool that you have to use every day.
49:07
And so I'd rather you ask and me be able to help you so that you can
49:10
achieve your goals than not ask.
49:12
And so I would say shoot me a DM on Instagram.
49:14
Fantastic.
49:15
Well, you have not, 'cause you asked not.
49:16
Right.
49:17
Uh, so it's a, it's an, it's an ancient principle that works super well.
49:20
So go connect with George.
49:22
We would of course, put all the links that George mentioned in the show notes.
49:25
So if you're on your podcast app to scroll down, click the link, go straight to his
49:28
Instagram and, and have a conversation.
49:30
George, man, listen, I. Love you.
49:32
You're an absolute legend.
49:33
Appreciate you coming on as always.
49:36
Um, I'm gonna end the podcast there 'cause I've got like 30 seconds.
49:41
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us this week.
49:43
Make sure you like, subscribe to all of that sort of good stuff.
49:46
Uh, and I'll be back next week, but George, you my friend.
49:50
Oh, awesome.
49:50
Thank you so much.
49:51
Thank you.